Atlanta Hawks: No Shaq . . . now what?

Big Ray

Good article

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What now? The Hawks will bring back the same team as last year while every other team got much better. We will be a 4 or 5 seed at best this year. Miami, Boston, Orlando, Chicago are all better than us with their upgrades. We are pathetic if all we had to do was give Shaq the Bi-annual or mid-level to sign him. He could of been the missing piece for us this year at center but the ASG is cheap and worthless. Get ready for another 2nd round exit if not 1st round this year.

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Man Our Owners SUCK ASS! Bottom Line! Cheap, Cheap, Cheap! Shaq would of been here for the mid level exception, But Our Cheap skate owners dont want to pay the luxury tax! Man These Guys Are a Joke Of Owners! It’s seven of yall and cant make a financial commitment to win. Please ASG Go Kill Yo Self!! I hate being a Hawks Fan! I Will Buy This Team and then and only till then will this organization be ran the right way! SHAME ON YOU ASG!!

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The money thing makes zero sense to me, since Shaq would have brought in way more money in ticket sales and merchandise than he would have cost in salary. So if that was part of ASG’s reasoning, that’s not cheap, it’s just plain stupid.

That being said, I’m not sad to see Shaq go elsewhere. At his age and girth and with his tendency to grumble about his role on the team, he probably would have hurt more than he helped. His head is as bloated as his butt, and I’m glad to see that neither of them will be in Atlanta next year.

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I was watching ESPN Jim Rome they said Shaq is not a good fit either because Boston just got much slower with Shaq. Kwame Brown or Josh Boone could be good fit . But i am still boycotting the ASG .

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@ryan – didn’t Shaq challenge Jim Rome to a fight for saying that? How hilarious.

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I’m glad they realized that bringing in Shaq as a starter was a non-starter. Having watched how his time at Miami played out from close distance, I think the assistance he would have been on the floor would have been over ridden by the headache he would have been in the locker room. However, Atlanta does have a bit of a problem at center. And the #4 seed is no longer a given. In case you haven’t heard, the Heat have gotten a wee bit better.

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CP ,

I agree. Siler isn’t going to make it, but if he does….man, come on. We’ve already been treated to two years of Randolph Morris. I’d take Boone (can he stay healthy?). Elson does nothing for me and I didn’t know Skinner was still in the league, much less available.

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what’s next? start looking for a secondary team to follow because the Hawks aren’t getting any better unless Teague is Isiah Thomas #2 and I doubt Woody could have kept Isiah Thomas on the bench because when he got those stints on the floor he would have proved too valuable to put back on the bench. I like the Blazers if healthy, I also kinda like Memphis. Both the Blazers and Grizzs have built through draft but they have legitimate Centers rather than playing people out of position.

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Not signing Shaq was a mistake, but we can’t live in the past. It’s over. It’s time to move on.

As far as what we need at this point, I’m not so sure that we should sign a 5 just to sign a 5. I don’t see any available centers that will make a difference. I would rather see the Hawks make a trade and get a good defensive SF. I just feel that Evans is too small to fill the position. We are stacked at the SG position. Maybe we can trade Crawford and Evans for T. Prince and J. Jerebko. That gives us a great defensive SF with an expiring contract and a young big. The Pistons need a SG to go with Stuckey.

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Big Ray

Thanks. One thing about you Big Ray we don’t always agree with each other but we always respect each other. I wish some of the others can pick that up from you.

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MC

I still dont understand why the Hawks aren’t looking at trades. I know they’ve said that they dont want to trade the “core” pieces, but did management not see what happened with them against Orlando in the playoffs. The Hawks need to add a impact bigman & the only way that probably happens is through a trade

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I don’t now why the Hawks wont trade for anyone they want find the cheapest player that is why they signed Powell and Collins the ASG does want to do anything for fans.

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Why waste money if your team has no chance.

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I’m proud of everyone who has posted on here so far today. Almost 30 replies to Michael’s blog and not one person tried to rationalize that Garret Siler would be a good pick up. Good job, everyone!

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That’s not because the Hawks are going to be a worse team — chances are they will be better than last year’s team — but because they will finish no higher than 3rd in their own division, which prevents them from finishing any higher than 5th in the conference.

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A little off the subject, but I need to know. I listen to Bill Simmons on his podcast and he has hinted on more than one occasion that Something happened between LeBron and the organization, something that ESPN wont allow them to talk about. Does anyone know what this rumor us?

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My guess is LeBron was unhappy with the Jamison deal and that they went after Tom Izzo and not John Caliparri .

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O well Shaqs fat anyways, MC whats your prediction that happens next to our roster………….. and did Powell pick a number yet? Thanks ahead of time

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Najeh, I think you are a bit premature in making the 48 win pediction. It is another way of saying that the Hawks will take a step backward. The Hawks obviously have other moves to make. (And I am not talking about the scrub who will fill out the 13th spot).

If the Hawks only add a scrub at 13 they will be better on paper than they were last year. They are a young team that is a year older. Teague will play better defense than Bibby. And they will not play the iso-Joe or the switching-D because they will not have Woodson as the coach – which is the most important reason they are better than last year.

The only unknowns are Teague’s offense (specifically his turnover-assist ratio) and LD’s coaching ability. I like what I’ve seen from LD so far.

There is lots of time for the Hawks to evaluate & trade. Patience is the word.

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Why would there have to be a budge? I thought the whole point of bringing Shaq in was to move Al to the 4?

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General Patton said that fixed fortifications are testimony to man’s stupidity. This applies to Shaq’s rear end

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I said all along you have to play Al at the 4 vs Dwight, Bynum and teams with true 7′0 bigs and those otehr teams you can get by with him playing center. Its not like we have not seen this fro two years now i dont see why fans are the only ones seeing this. If they want to be small play small we were one of the best teams in the L last year in fast break points otehr wise blow the team up b/c their is no way in h*** this team can win it all even though we have as much talent as anyone in the L. This team sucks and whats so bad when things start to go south this year during the season i know them idiots going to trade JC and his exipring contract which will be even dumer then anything we have not done this offseason and then our bench will suck again!! If you think of all the things not to do with this team it will tell you what they do i finally figured it out after all these years!!! i still cant beleive we signed Collins again after he spent a whole year not in shape that to me makes no sense to re-sign Alvin the Chipmunks big brother!!!!

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Really sad to see other teams in the East get better while we stand still/ get worse. I don’t see how we are supposed to legitimately hope to get pass the 2nd round of the playoffs

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“I think you are a bit premature in making the 48 win pediction. It is another way of saying that the Hawks will take a step backward. ”

Actually, it’s my way of saying the rest of the conference has taken bigger steps forward than the Hawks have. I do think this Hawks team will be better simply by replacing Bibby with Teague in the starting lineup, and I think it’s likely that Drew ends up being an upgrade over Woody (although to what extent remains to be seen). But saying the Hawks will be better in an absolute sense and saying they will have a better record are two different things.

Out of all the teams in the conference, it’s safe to say only Toronto and Cleveland can be predicted to get significantly worse based on what happened to them this summer. Orlando, Boston, Charlotte, Indiana, Detroit, and Philadelphia may not have improved but they are probably no worse than last year, while Miami, New York, Chicago, New Jersey, Washington, and Milwaukee can reasonably be expected to improve on last season’s performance based on player acquisitions and players returning from injury. The East has gotten tougher from top to bottom at a greater rate than the Hawks improved this offseason. Also keep in mind that whatever improvements Teague and Drew provide to the Hawks can very easily be offset by injuries, which the Hawks were very lucky not to suffer last year and are still not adequately equipped to deal with from a depth standpoint.

Chances are, the combined effect of injuries and opponents improving results in a lower win total for the Hawks than last year. If the Hawks play exactly as well this year as they did last year, there’s no way they come close to 53 wins; they will have to significantly improve to reach that total again.

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Mike is back I’m like you and don’t get why the front office is wasting time. They want a young cheap big well that’s Boone. Sign the kid and stop the foot dragging….And I also see we agree on how it makes no sense to even think about bringing in Siler when they had a chance to take some talented bigs in the second round. Bigs who are much better. I wouldn’t be shocked if they did bring in Siler or bring back RandyMo. Like you stated, the kid Aminu wouldn’t be a bad choice. I would have liked to see him get a chance over Collins.

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You get what you won’t pay for–zippity do dah. We’ll do nothing, because that’s the most reasonable thing to do when you don’t want to spend a dime. I can understand the reasoning behind not signing Shaq, I never wanted him in an ATL uninnie, anyway. But to not find a big somewhere is just inexcusable. And it will definitely hurt us this year. Poor LD, he deserves better than this.

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“its not like Teague in summer L makes me feel like he is the man i mean he played average at best vs guys that wont even be in the L next year i expected him to be the best player on the summer team but he let the rookie the other Crawford outplay him!!!”

Well, if Jordan Crawford can start at PG, then I’m all for him bumping Bibby from his spot. Whether it’s Teague or Crawford doesn’t really matter to me. Someone other than Bibby needs to be starting for this team if they want to improve. Bibby only does one thing (long distance shooting) well at this point in his career, and he isn’t even amazing at that.

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MC

The Shaq situation doesn’t suprise me, because of the history of this franchise.

I am more concerned with how the Hawks are addressing their weaknesses from last season.

The problem areas coming into the offseason were…1) Lack of on court leadership (KB24, Lebron, Chauncey) someone to be an extension of the coach on the floor.

2) Interior defense and rebounding (we were destroyed by all the teams with big frontlines last season on the boards, and protecting the paint).

3) Mentatl toughness. I know that’s not something the front office can change, but we are bringing back the same core group that’s quit in the playoffs 3 seasons in a row. The 4 games we lost to Bos. in 08 were all blow outs, and we know what happened against Cle. and Orl.

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MC: thanks! The salary is one thing but if Shaq wanted to start ahead of Al, let’s be happy the guy went elsewhere. Shaq + the Hawks in those circumstances would not have ended well.

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As much as Shaq gets bash, when was the last time a Shaq led team lost to the Hawks. Was it in his Miami days?????

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Najeh, in response to your 9:06pm posting, I agree that other teams in the east have gotten better, but in my estimation only Miami and, possibly, Boston has gotten better than the Hawks. If my 9 year old son’s basketball team adds five college basketball players to their roster, they have upgraded astronomically, but still could not beat the Hawks.

I believe that, as the Hawks stand right now, they will be over the 50 win mark. But I also believe (hope springs eternal in the offseason) that the Hawks will upgrade between now and the trade deadline. Hopefully it will be before training camp when other 7′ will be available so that there will not be the chemistry issues of a mid-season trade.

With the exception of Washington, who added John Wall, no consequential new talent was added to the NBA. Rather, the existing talent shifted from team to team. The Hawks will be fine this season. But, and please hear me on this point, they do need to significantly upgrade to make it past the 2nd round of the playoffs. Shaq would have been an upgrade, but I don’t think he would have been significant enough.

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I am so glad Shaq didn’t come here. This is the biggest bunch of BS ive heard in a long time. You are afraid to sign a player because you are scared to death he’ll make your “allstar” look weak and thus prove to everyone, including your rookie coach, that he needs to start. He went to a “real” organization who is not afraid to sign players and let the chips fall where they may.

I guarantee you that nobody said that Shaq will or won’t start in Boston. Real basketball teams and real coaches don’t operate that way. He may sign for the league min but he’ll push hard and may well win the starting nod. Believe that.

MC, do you know all that crap you wrote for a fact or is it just hearsay and internet blog BS. So, is he gonna respect DOC? DOC aint exactly Phil or Pat either? I still can’t believe people who call themselves professional basketball personnel evaluators would sign the likes of Randolph “freekin” Morris and Jarren “Fatboy” Collins and pass on a Shaq O’neall. I don’t give a dam if the man is 52, he better than them two “SCRUBBS”.

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All you people calling for Josh Boone, Kwame Brown, et al, please keep your eye on the prize. We want a championship. We don’t necessarily need that 13th spot to be filled with a center. No center available right now will help us any more than Jason Collins. Fill it with another quality role player if any are available. We are thin at SF.

ASG felt their hands were tied in free agency (actually they make the most expensive free agency signing this year). Fine, they decided not to go into the luxury tax. They said they would if the right player comes along. I know, ASG lies, Sund lies, Bush lies, Obama lies… But all that doesn’t push the discussion forward. So for the sake of discussion let’s say that the Hawks will keep their word and will go ‘all in’ for the right person. None of the available talent will significantly upgrade us as a team.

I believe the Hawks do need another 7′ to go to the next level. But I don’t want us to try to fill that void with any of the available talent (lack thereof) right now. Patience is the word.

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How can Boone not help anymore than Collins? Have you seen Collins play? Boone probably grabbed more rebounds in that one game against us than Collins had all of last year period… How did Jordan Crawford out play Teauge in the summer league? Didn’t Teague shoot a higher percentage from the field and have more assist? Crawford scored what 1 point more per game than Teague in the summer league? Teague played well. He had one bad half. Not taking anything away from Crawford but I dont think he out played Teague .I think they both played well l and when Crawford played a lot of point he didn’t look all that comfortable. Dude is a sg and that’s the position he should play. I just cant see Teague being any worse than what Bibby was last year. Bibby could at least be counted on for hitting shots but last year he couldn’t even do that then add in his terrible defense and his inability to get to the line and it was just ugly for Bibby last season.

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cp, truly sorry for being confusing with my post. I was speaking hyperbolically about Collins. My point is, “No center available right now will help us any more than Jason Collins” to get us past the second round of the playoffs.

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Jamal has every reason to want to play as many minutes as he can. Why wouldn’t he try to become the starting PG in the training camp? Can anyone stop him if he wants to win it?

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I predict affordable pieces will be dropping like crazy at the trade deadline as teams drop salary and others bulk up. Happens every year.

Troy Murphy would be a nice PF backup to Josh or even push Josh to SF at times…especially for a Bibby, TPE or Mo deal.

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Rev in Tampa, no disrespect…there are no quality Bigs left…waiting for one to shake loose is as bad as passing on the one that were available. We are taking about a rare commodity in the NBA. The Bigs left in FA is all you are going to get. Nobody is going give you a quality Big.

You don’t see a need to sign Boone…yet some how someone is going to leave a Big available you can use…CMon Rev…that ain’t going happen. We need to pick from what’s left and be grateful for what we get. Would you agree that humility is better than arrogance…especially if you are a franchise with a dubious existence in the NBA like the Hawks?

Nobody is going to pass on an opportunity to play with a team with a storied tradition just to play with the Hawks…that’s what’s up…win at lease one ring…before you start trying to put some demands down. In Shaq case…this guy has four rings…that got to count for something. Expecting him to tap dance to Sund demands is unrealistic.

I share your optimism…however, it must be tempered with reality. You make those demands if you have a proven track record…but we are taking about the Hawks mind you. Need I say more?

Like it or not…it is what it is.

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We should sign Jerry Stackhouse for SF

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Rev in Tampa

Consider yourself backed up!
A point guard is more than handling the ball skillfully.
I’ve said before;
a point guard is more in the mind & in the heart.
A [1] thinks teammates 1st.
A good [2] thinks when & where is my next shot coming from?
That does not make a [2] selfish, it’s just his natural mindset.
Whereas a [1] is trying to figure out ways to set up;
not only the [2], but the frontline as well, and if in so doing
he happens upon a chance to score himself, then all is well.

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Mike is back, no disrespect taken. I’ve been spoiling for a good argument. We had vacation bible school at our church this week and I have high-fived more seven year old boys and been hugged by more five year old girls than I ever hoped to in a lifetime. And all the bible school volunteers have wanted ‘me’ time with the pastor. I bet I’ve heard “hey, Pastor Wes” more than 200 times today. And I spent most of my evening in the hospital with two different people. I love my job and my people, but I am spent. I want to blow off some steam in good-natured yet intense discussion about my Hawks.

So… I think Josh Boone is not even an upgrade over Zaza. He is only 6′10″. How will he help us stop Dwight? Boone got his starting job by replacing Jason Collins at New Jersey. The only thing Boone offers is his youth. But we don’t need youth for the future. We need the pieces to go past the second round of the playoffs. Do you think Josh Boone will get us to the next level?

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Just checked Boone’s free throw percentage. Last year, as a starter, he shot under 33%! I could do that with my eyes closed (no exaggeration). The funny thing is that his picture on NBA.com is of him at the free throw line. And yes, he had his eyes open.

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SteveW, I know you are tenacious in an argument and I am spoiling for a fight, but I am not biting because I am not living in the past. The future is the way forward. Onward ho!

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We actually have enough money to sign 3 more at the vet minimum – if the rebate the Hawks recieve for so doing doesn’t count towards the cap – which I’m told it doesn’t.

So we may have 3 spots open, or Sund is setting us up for a trade – I don’t know.

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3 vet minimum scrubs or a season-altering trade? I am opting for the latter.

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Hah! – I like that Rev.

Just thinking that Etan would be better, if healthy than either Skinner – 7-0 240lb disaster who brings nothing to the team, or Elson – 6-9 – 255lbs – terrible basketball player – and both are old.

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Did you see Grandad’s post about Troy Murphy. He is a 6′11″ starting foward. Don’t know if he would be the answer to Dwight, but I am hoping for a starting center to shake loose from one of the bottom feeding teams in the league.

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This organization isn’t going to do ish at the trade deadline either.

Because Crawford’s expiring contract is the most valuable piece that they possess. They’re going to let his money drop straight off the books, so that hey can re-sign Al Horford ( after they leave him hanging and let some idiot team give him an offer sheet that they can match ).

This ownership group gets TOTAL BLAME if things don’t go our way next season. None of you better not dare blame Drew, or anybody else.

LOL . . they didn’t even offer Shaq the damn bi-annual exception, trying to get him as cheap as possible. That’s a damn shame. A gat damn shame.

Sell the team to Oprah . . Tyler Perry . . T.I. and Grand Hustle . . anybody.

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The Big 3, JJ, Al and Smoove for yet another run for a top 4 slot.

No matter what we did this offseason, our Top 3 wasn’t going to improve.

The parts around them are what they are; servicable and about as exciting as Cleveland will be this year.

The only piece missing to our core: Mario West. Then we can lay claim to being the team with the least changes from last season. Makes you want to go buy tickets to know what we already know is going to happen.

The city of Atlanta needs football and baseball to forget about basketball and hockey.

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Box Office

Would you pay $55 to go see “Scarface” starring Al Pachino,
When you have already seen it 55 times?

Then, the Hawks are a must see!

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I agree, sell the team to T.I./Grand Hustle,Usher, Tyler Perry, and some well established business man for the sake of having one. Sund is even killing the entertainment value of the team. Josh Smith is still worth the price of admission on most nights but he needs a high rising buddy. Andris Biedrins I’m telling you people

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truthspitter, get some rest or stay off the coffee. The Hawks are not getting their head stomped in. In 2005 they were getting their heads stomped in. They are and will be a 50+ win team. They are one of the most athletic teams in the league with a high entertainment value. The Hawks haven’t played all of their offseason cards. Patience is the word.

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2 FOR JOHN DREW , doesn’t pass the smell test.

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how about bibby for jeff foster our dead weight for theres they want a vet point guard and we needa vet big

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Now that we are not getting Shaq as a member of this team the attention has turned to other centers. Everyone seems to be in agreement about Josh Boone being the best of what is left because he is a hard worker and loves to rebound. If this is the case I say why not sign him after all his name is Josh and we love guys named Josh. Josh Smith, Josh Childress, Josh Powell and Now Josh Boone. We also love guys whose name starts with a J. Jamaal Crawford, Jordan Crawford, Jeff Teague and Joe Smith. I say sign the guy already and change the name of the team to the Atlanta JAY HAWKS.

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* …or we wouldn’t be on here blooging about IT. We have many
Points of views. …..

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victor

Funny Stuff! Jay Hawks – I like it … I like it.

dukester

Nobody in Miami took any discounts, they don’t pay state taxes. Trust me,
they still take home more than Joe. Besides, the owners are making
6 times what Joe is on his contract. They’re billionaires, so they should
pay their own employees – not Joe! We are the only team in the play-offs
last season who doesn’t pay any Luxury Taxes to field their team.

So the answer is …. Heck Naaw!

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dap01

The owners are proving you right! He He.
I know patience is a virtue, but inaction is inexcusable.
Every team makes roster adjustments after each season. Especially the teams that are winning. Because, you can always win better!

Lakers
Boston
Dallas
Suns
Utah
Miami
Milwaukee
Orlando
Bulls

And it just don’t stop!

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Not even an aging superstar can discern when an organization is serious about winning and when they are not. That is the bottom line with superstars. It was never really about the money for Shaq because he has made and will continue to make money in a variety of ways. The Hawks did not impress Shaq enough to be the place to maybe end his career because they will be average at best. Even though the Hawks talk a good game, their actions or inactions prove that they are not serious about winning championships. Bottom line is they are who we thought they were!

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Hawks Fans relax….We have a good team. I agree we are not as sexy as Miami’s offseason; YES we are still better than Most teams in the East with the exception of Miami, Orlando and Boston. And I believe that Teague and JC2 will make huge impacts on our bench. I’m not oppose to trading Maurice Evans, with our trade exception for a big man, and maybe signing a Jarvis Hayes, Or Rodney Carney to supplement our bench, but all in all we will be a really good team in the East; provided that LD offense works.

Their were no realistic moves the Hawks could of made this offseason that would have made them a contender; and YES TO Those who dont know basketball SHaq would have slowed the HAWKS down. We cant add a player just to face one team in the playoffs….Shaq was added in cleveland to face Howard and they didnt even make it that far. IF LD keeps his promise by playing teague & JC2 alot we will be fine, and might just suprise some of you without faith….GO HAWKS…

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MC, is Josh Boone a restricted or unrestricted free agent (I thought restricted)? IMO, the Hawks need a wide-body type, so based on that incredibly pedestrian list of names, I’d go with Skinner. If they choose a slender body type, then they are putting their eggs in Jason Collins staying well-conditioned and healthy as their lone wide body. That deoesn’t appear to be a smart/wise move.

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Wolverine, way off base here…..unless you are sitting in on the meetings, you have no idea who has been offered to the Hawks or who the Hawks have offered. We have no clue who has been discussed in trades, other than the 30th ranked SF in the league.
This ownership group is going to ride this limited team who as of today has no 1/2 court offense. LD is supposed to come in here and make something fluid out of what stopped at E#2 with the clock winding down.
We have talent here, that’s obvious. But to bring this team back intact after that 2nd straight year of playoff blowout (the worst in NBA history…think about that for a minute…these guys quit!), then you are seeing something few of us are seeing.
- This team doesn’t match up with Orlando
- Playing Boston in the regular season (please someone acknowledge AGAIN that we swept them during the regular season!) and the playoffs are 2 different worlds.

The facts are facts and will play out this way. If the Hawks somehow get a HC advantage for Round 1, then that’s it. They then have to play a team who can beat this team up and we can blame someone for trying to get Joe to play 48 minutes and justifying their investment as a cheap one.
Dwight loves this lineup…….I bet he does! Makes him look like a MVP!
LeBron/DWade/Bosh will laugh at this lineup…they will have guys do the dirty work, and their talent takes over.

Someone, for the umpteenth time, tell me what this team has done to make themselves a better playoff team? Not a 53 win team, but a PLAYOFF team?

Anyone wanna bet we go back to steady Bibby when Teague struggles?
Anyone wanna lay claim to what Zaza produces in 15/min game?
Anyone wanna think what its going to look like when Smoove has a tizzy that things aren’t going his way and LD just stands there? You think he is going to yank him?

This is a young team, who got lucky and got a coach who won’t be tough on them…they got a coach who can’t stand his ground because he makes less than our hidden gem Collins. This team has gotten comfortable, doesn’t like to hear boos, and is not better than last year…A first year coach isn’t the answer for this team….A Scott Skiles is….someone who knows how to get the best out of these primas.

Sund’s ranking as a GM will continue to plummet while we watch Season 1 of the real Hawks of Atlanta. Trouble is, you might see visions of Woody standing there watching Jason Kidd punk him on the sidelines once again.

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nire

I 2nd!

I much prefer cheap over stupid. I hope MC’s information isn’t totally accurate.

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AJ,

I think NJ renounced Boone making him unrestricted. I like Boone because of his energy on the boards.

Steve W,

DJ Mbenga could be worth a look too. Ken Strickland suggested him long ago.

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@Kevin – I appreciate the frustration, but your argument hinges on LD being a bust before he coaches a single game.

Yes, it’s his first head coaching gig, but he’s a long-time assistant who has been ready for a shot for a while. Yes, he was picked up on the cheap, but any assistant trying to transition to a head coaching position would jump at the offer.

The Hawks have a lot of talent, as you said. And it will obviously take someone other than Woodson to bring it out in them. Obviously a more seasoned coach would be a better bet, but assuming that LD is going to be a bust is just as much of a crapshoot as me predicting he’ll win a title.

What we know: the Hawks players like LD, he has directly addressed problems like iso-Joe and Smoove’s jump shots, to which Joe and Josh reacted favorably and he has described a new motion-based offensive scheme. I don’t know if all of this will get implemented, but you don’t know that it won’t either.

Give the dude a chance. I’m sure he could end up being a bust, but Doc Rivers won COY his first season as head coach. Sure, it’ll feel satisfying to say “I told you so” if he’s a bust, but you’ll also feel like a pretty big boob if he turns out ok.

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O’Brien / KevinM…the only way JC2 gets playing time would be if Bibby becomes the 3rd string PG at 8 minutes a game…Not sure that happens…But if JC1 gets the majority of his minutes at PG again, then JC2 could get 12-15 minutes a game at the 2.

(maybe drmaryb won’t blast me again for this)

PG – Teague (22), Jamal (18), Bibby (8)
SG – Johnson (30), Jordan (14), Jamal (4)

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[...] Cunningham of the Atlanta Journal Constitution has some insight… I’ve been told that Atlanta wouldn’t budge on giving Shaq a starting nod over Al, who is [...]

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REV IN TAMPA-Do you see why I refer to some of our fans as GLASS HALF EMPTY thinking fans? It doesn’t matter what you say, what logic and/or facts you present, they will always embrace their fears, hangups and/or lack of understanding. It reminds you of former HC MWoodson’s approach, doesn’t it.

Some of our fans are so hung up on the belief we need to IMMEDIATELY sign another center that they’re suggesting we sign virtually anyone available at this point. While they don’t want the return of bench warmers RMorris and JCollins, they desperately want us to sign any one of the remaining underachieving FA bench warmers.

I like the idea of Sund playing it close to the vest and waiting until the trade deadline to make a move. At that point, due to prorated salaries, we can afford to pick up a much better quality backup center, and whatever else we need. It certainly worked well in 07, when we acquired PG MBibby, which certainly made us a playoff caliber team and started our current playoff run.

Since the 07 season, Eastern conference teams have been improving their rosters through trades, FA signings, and draft picks. The Hawks, on the other hand, have basically maintained their same core of players over those same 3yrs. And despite all of the GLASS HALF EMPTY thinking, positive projections for the improvement of other teams, and negative projections for the Hawks, we’ve managed to increase our annual win total and seeding in each of those 3yrs.

NEJAH-you say Teague’s summer league performance doesn’t make you feel better about him or our PG situation. Well, it’s obviously not a concern for new HC LDrew, since he hasn’t seen fit to bring in another PG to compete with him. He certainly hasn’t made any announcement or move that that would suggest that Teague’s summer league performance, or off season progress, has had any negative influence on his decision to make Teague a major factor at PG.

You chose to discount Teague’s summer league performance, because you said it was AGAINST a collection of players that won’t even make it in the NBA. Yet, you failed to consider he played on a hastily put together team that was filled WITH a collection of players in that same category. I can certainly see him doing a lot better when playing with 2 All Stars(AHorford/JJ), a potential All Star(JSmith), and teammates he’s worked with through 1 season, 2 training camps and2 preseasons.

In the end, I guess it’s all just a matter of perspective.

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Josh Boone and Rodney Carney ……………just sign them and call it a day. The money from the draft pick is probably going to help pay Joes salary. Lets move on,the big names dont want to play here -its amazing how a 53 win team becomes bottom feeders in FA. The way our ownership does bussiness I wouldnt come here either. JJ’s recruiting players huh? he’s more likely recruiting women to help him count that muney. Cant be mad at JJ though he didnt sign himself. I predict that our attendance at phillips will be worst than New orleans from Last year………..44-38

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@KevinM,

I agree the Hawks quit on Woodson in the playoffs..I will not sit here and bast woodson -He took the Hawks as far as he could with limited Offensive Coaching skills. The ASG took the cheap way out by not hiring a proven coach in Avery Johnson, inaddition to the major problems we heard from Al-Horford was in the locker room. The Hawks really dont have much leadership in the locker, Horford hopefully will become that vocal leader.

Aside from the obvious, many NBA coaches (hubert brown, Jeff Van Gundy, Avery Johnson etc.,) all commented during the playoffs that the Hawks really dont have a structured offense to beat the better teams in the Playoffs and lacked mental toughness. Can a Coach cure that? We shall see.

Hawks did put some fillers out there for Bierdrens from GS, but didnt really want to make changes to the core. I think we have a good core, we desperately need good PG play and more size in the paint. If Teague can take the starting role and actually run the point effectively then we will be just fine.

We will see alot of different lineups so I’m told where JJ will play the 3spot sometimes and JC2 can play the SG, and Jamal at the PG. The Hawks are very versatile from the PG to SF spot. ITs the Center position that worries me.

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Good comments Wolverine….going into this season, who is going to be our defensive stoppers on the perimeter?
I agree, we have a backline of 2 PFs and little more than that for around 7M.
We have weaknesses so much in that no one of this team outside of our new acquistion, Powell, has even sniffed a critical/winnable playoff series.

I don’t like where this is headed…….Biedrins, like Bargnani or even Nowitski, aren’t defensive minded in the least. The Hawks’ need stoppers either in the frontcourt or the backcourt. We have pieces that just play the next play hoping for good things to happen. They don’t make it happen.

IMO, Marvin is supposed to be our defensive stopper. Anyone care to challenge that?

Like the Braves, if you keep letting the other teams’ come in here and embarrass you in the postseason, you’re going to see a lot of chairbacks and wonder why aren’t the fans supporting the product? Because for that kind of investment, you want to have the potential to win. This lineup shows no such potential.

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I thought they fixed the T/S problem. smh…. Imus I said that the other day, sign Boone and Carney and call it a day. We get a backup sf in Carney and a guy who can play pf/c in Boone. I guess that would be difficult for a bunch of guys who probably cant even decide where to go for lunch on most days.

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Niremental, who’s going to buy tickets just because Shaq’s old azz is on the team? Probably the same idiots who think Horford’s the problem, and not our pathetic perimeter D.

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I still cant get over the fact Collins did us dirty last year by never getting in shape to help us vs Diwght and otehr bigs which is when he got to play last year and our dumb a** owners rewared that fat lazy dude by re-signing him!!! To me that ranks right behind anything Billy Martin would have done. Matter of fact bring Billy back!!!!!

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effecting should be affecting

Maybe Sund should be shunned and Pendergraft promoted.

I’d love to see the Hawks add a big center who could actually play, but there are far more big stiffs than players available. Has expansion diluted the big man pool? I think so.

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Terrell as sad as it may sound about 50 people would go to a Hawks game to see Shaq every night at home and one the road who would not if he was not on our team and if you add in the ticket sells, parking, consession over 40 home games liek they said thats your 2min in tax that you would have to pay right their. On the cool Northcyde was right they were never going to get that man and alot of stuff they been putting out through the media is stuff to make us think they trying to get better when in fact they do want to get better but by being as cheap as possible. Shaq as far as draw is jsut like alot of otehr players in the L that have been big draws people want to come see them play to say that they have seen him play before they retire dog!!

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I am so frustrated with the Hawks, man. Shaq would start over Al, he would start with him. Al would dominate at the 4 and Josh would be a monster at the 3 (Marvin can be the 7th man he produces like) and We would be instantly better than last year. Shaq could play 25 minutes and Al could still play some 5 if the coach wanted him to. This team is dumb as H&LL

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I thought truth serum was permanently banned from all AJC blogs. Was he granted parole, or did he break out … er, in?

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From an earlier blog:

What happened: Blog commenter Truth-Serum once again became a punk when left unsupervised, sullying my blog people with his childish antics.

What it means: In addition to confirming that dude has too much free time and some serious issues, he’s had his multiple IPs banned for the umpteenth time. He’s always found a way around that and in the past he’s been allowed to return because his manic phases are usually followed by periods of lucidity laced with mere annoyance rather than outright jerkiness.

But now his ban is permanent. Each time he comes back he will be booted as quickly as possible regardless of the content of his messages (which won’t be hard to identify since 99 percent of his posts are on one topic). I don’t like to do this because I’m a marketplace of ideas proponent, but Truth-Serum has lost his privileges for being the only commenter who can’t act right.

Thanks to my blog people who emailed the AJC folks to let them know he got out of control while I was away.

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Naw man Josh cant play the 3 now you tripping do you know how big a coaches eyes would get if he saw josh out on the wing!!!!!!!

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“They also might consider bringing some young center prospects to camp and give them a month to earn the 13th roster spot.”

Dang, MC, a bench warming center was not what we fans were hoping for, especially when Joe told us he was gonna get some players to join his in ATL.

He coulda done that by telling Sund to keep say, $3M of his ‘10 salary so the Hawks could sign Shaq. But, Joe doesn’t care, as long as he gets to dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble between legs, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble between legs, etc, etc.

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[...] Atlanta Journal-Constitution’s Michael Cunningham examines the reasons ground Shaq ended up in Boston and not with the [...]

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TS,

I wanted the ASG to sign Shaq because I think he would help Al and Josh out, and there are some games where Shaq might even be a better option than Al.

However, for the majority of games over an 82 game season, give me Horford. Shaq has not been able to stay healthy enough to play a consistent 30 mpg for 80 games. Also, he is slow, and our team is built for the starters to push the tempo.

So I would not promise Shaq a starting position. But I would promise him a consistent 20 mpg backing up Al. Now if Shaq was to come in and consistently outplay Al in practice and in games, then I would consider changing the lineup.

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I promise to be better next time.

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KenS-go with Sund and agree that standing pat keeps the Hawks in the Top 4. Now what?

If you are so optimistic, why aren’t you touting this team as a 1 or 2 slot contender in the East? Has something happened this offseason to limit your justifications?

Don’t improve or even think about having the best roster 1-13 where all could be a contributor.
Again, the jury on LD is as an unknown; do you seriously want an unknown with an unknown PG to try and get you to the elite level in basketball? Are you willing to throw all your cap limited chips in a guy who will be essentially playing his rookie season? Didn’t JT have a similar showing like Acie in the SL where they were given the reins?

I don’t see the reason for the optimism you present. You are content with the status quo of a core that no one wants to break up. These guys are so cohesive, they can’t win a 2nd round playoff game. Is it me or am I missing something? They can’t even win on their home court. Yes, these same 5 guys who refuse to step up and be made accountable. They all get raises for a non-banner season, because there aren’t any banners hanging up that are from this regime.
I am waiting for the ASG to hang a banner in their own honor though, similar to giving Ted Turner a banner.
LD and his assistants have a lot to prove…ok, let them prove it. It was the cheap option over anything else out there, plain and simple. Obviously, the ASG doesn’t put a lot of credence in a coach on the sidelines….or for that matter, a top GM. Woody/Knight/Sund/LD drips of championship aspirations doesn’t it? That doesn’t mean they haven’t done better than a Larry Bird or Kevin McHale and some of their hires…I will give you that one.
This team is not built for championship aspirations. It is built to be consistent and average at best from an overall team review. As you saw, winning 50 games or even 60 games means nothing if you don’t show up in the playoffs. These guys have proven the last 3 years that they can’t compete with the elite teams on the road. They held their own against Boston at home, looked bad against Miami every game, and survived Milwaukee. It does remind me of a Lenny Wilkens team concept….be good enough to make the playoffs, and absolutely QUIT when the time to ‘rise up’ comes around.

Again, 4 playoff wins in the 2nd round in their last 5 appearances. That doesn’t do anything to breed optimism.

Stand pat, stay the course, present your cap limited team, and you’ll see something similar to last year and the year before.

I eagerly await the trade deadline so we can make that major move that breeds excitement and more wins as a Top 4 seed. Can we then jump of the Sund ‘executive of the year for not doing anything’ bandwagon?

Josh Childress/pick 31/Pape Sy (who LD thought was a big man and knew NOTHING about on draft day) and that critical 13th roster spot is what I am remembering in the summer of ‘10.

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KevinM,

There is optimism, because I think LD will be better than Woody, and that will have a trickle down effect on the players. Plus Teague will complement Bibby.

However, if the goal is to win a championship, then we have not done enough to give LD and the players the best chance to win.

Personally, I think the ASG is more concerned about finances.

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Oh yeah, I failed to mention the Cavs…are they still planning to play this season?

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I agree the ASG IS A JOKE. Please sell the team to an owner that will take the steps to win championships. LD may turn out to be a good coach, but the ASG took the easy way out(on the cheap).Please get a center and move Al to power forward They should have never paid a no.2 guy (Joe Johnson) the max contract. The guy does not show in playoffs. Please ASG sell the team.

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I still got game.

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@KevinM – I’m with O’Brien and Ken on this. Yes, we’re not instant contenders, but we’ve made steps in the right direction that, with future signings and tinkerings, will hopefully put us into a position to win.

1. We fired Woody. While you’re convinced LD is Woody 2, the players clearly know the difference. They didn’t like playing for Woody. They like playing for LD.

2. We secured a franchise player. Yes, he’s not worth his contract, but he’s a perennial all-star with a lot left in the tank. And he’s proven that in the right offensive system, he doesn’t miss.

3. We have a point guard of the future. Don’t know how Teauge’ll turn out, but he just has to be a solid serviceable guy to make an impact. I’m sure you remember all the awful PG experiments before Bibby came. It’s nice to know there’s at least a contingency plan in action before Bibby’s legs are completely useless.

4. We have a GM who acknowledges that we need a center. It may not seem like much, but the simple fact that Sund was entertaining the signing of Shaq and other true centers this offseason is progress. I’m pretty sure Billy Knight still isn’t aware of how a player taller than 6-10 can help a basketball team succeed.

It’s modest, but it’s progress. And Hawks fans more than anyone know to appreciate the little things.

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The eastern conference teams that are in the luxury tax (orlando, miami & boston), are all built around veteran starting lineups. When Teague, Marvin, Josh & Al become veterans, then we can complain about not having a bench around them…Its too risky of a business move to surround that young of a team with a $40M bench…Let Josh & Al become low post threats…Let’s find out if Teague & Marvin even belong in a starting lineup…Let’s see if Larry Drew can coach a lick?…And then lets spend some money to back them up….HOWEVER, we can still make some minor moves and stay below the luxury tax…That’s the type of deals we need to be considering.

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“I just dont see where JC2 is going to get PT (except for injuries or blowouts).”

I agree, and this is why when Jordan was drafted I said this is probably setting up a Jamal trade. It makes no sense to be that deep at SG when you have major depth issues in the front court. The fact that they didn’t make a subsequent move to either trade Jamal for big man depth or move Bibby just further demonstrates this organization’s inability to plan long term.

I am all for drafting the best player available regardless of need, but then the trade and free agent market should be used to fill those needs. Instead, the Hawks are going to struggle to find playing time for all their guards while Zaza gets 20 minutes per game and Gearon rolls around in the $3 million the Hawks have instead of Dexter Pittman. This organization is a joke.

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“NEJAH-you say Teague’s summer league performance doesn’t make you feel better about him or our PG situation. Well, it’s obviously not a concern for new HC LDrew, since he hasn’t seen fit to bring in another PG to compete with him. He certainly hasn’t made any announcement or move that that would suggest that Teague’s summer league performance, or off season progress, has had any negative influence on his decision to make Teague a major factor at PG.”

I didn’t say any of that. I probably quoted someone else who did; go back and check the post to be sure. I’ve been one of the most optimistic people regarding Teague on this blog since the day he was drafted, and I clearly remember saying earlier on this blog that the Hawks will be better simply by replacing Bibby with Teague. That said, I don’t think it is fair to expect Teague to set the world on fire from day one. He will go through some growing pains, which he really should have gotten the chance to go through last season.

Also, there is another problem with the above statement — Drew is not responsible for personnel decisions; Sund is. It is Sund’s call not to bring in a veteran PG, and that’s probably more because Mr. We-Like-Our-Core sees Bibby as that veteran PG (out of necessity more than anything since his contract and production make him virtually untradeable).

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Najeh…”I agree, and this is why when Jordan was drafted I said this is probably setting up a Jamal trade. It makes no sense to be that deep at SG when you have major depth issues in the front court.”…What if Drew considers Jamal a PG only, and Bibby useless?

I wanted Pittman at 31 too, but $3M would be tough to turn down when we don’t even know if he’s any good.

Speaking of the Miami roster…Do they have 17 under contract?…Will they have to cut someone loose?…I was just looking at hoopshype earlier, which isnt that accurate.

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“Najeh, how much better would last season’s Hawks team been if Drew were the coach? ”

I have no idea how good of a coach Drew is. Chances are a Drew-coached team last year doesn’t win a whole lot more than 53 games in the regular season if at all. But if he really does promote an offense based on movement and sharing the ball and he is willing to play his best players and give everyone an equal shot to win playing time, I can guarantee you he would have coached this team to a better playoff result. The reason Woody had to go is because when his simplistic, gimmicky strategies were dismantled by opposing coaches in the playoffs, he had no counter move. The way to avoid that situation is to either a) have a plan B, C, and D in case your plan A goes wrong, or b) have a better plan A in the first place. From everything Drew has said about ball movement, playing Teague, and man-to-man defense, it seems like his plan A is a lot more sound than Woody’s. Let’s hope that is actually the case.

“Basic math says that if several teams go up a few teams will go down. For every Bucks team on the rise, there is a team that will fall on it’s face ”

But that’s the thing — on paper, the Eastern Conference has dismantled basic math this offseason. When only two teams have gotten worse on paper and six teams have gotten better, logic dictates that those six teams’ additional wins will come not just at the expense of the teams that got worse, but also from the teams that stood pat. This is why the Hawks are in danger of finishing with a worse record even if they improve in absolute terms as a team.

Of course, all of this only refers to the Eastern Conference. If I’m not mistaken, the Hawks played better against the West than the East last year, and if they can improve on that, it’s possible they can reach last year’s win total. I still think the East has improved from top to bottom to the point that any team other than Miami or Orlando will be hard pressed to win 50 games. I’d expect to see several teams, including the Hawks, in the 45-50 win range.

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Call me crazy, but wouldn’t this starting lineup have worked:

Bibby/Teauge, JJ, J Smoove, AL, Shaq???

Put Marvin’s butt on the bench!!!

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KEVINM-Part of the reason the Bucks are being so highly touted is due to last yrs production of THEIR ROOKIE PG. The only reason the Hornets have been willing to even think of trading CPaul is because of the outstanding production of THEIR ROOKIE PG. Yet, when it comes to JTeague, certain Hawk fans dumb up and start complaining about his lack of experience, or he hasn’t proven anything yet.

Tell me, before the Hornets and Bucks started their ROOKIE PG’S, how much prior NBA experience did they have, and what had they proven? They both were fortunate to have HC’s willing to give them a chance to demonstrate what they were capable of doing. Teague, on the other hand, had a moron of a HC that couldn’t overcome his stupid bias against rookie PG, even when his team was destroyed by rookie PG’s. That’s no longer the case.

It’s funny how you challenge my optimism by questioning why I don’t rate the Hawks as a potential 1st or 2nd seed. Then you go GLASS HALF EMPTY on me by putting the Hawks down because they didn’t win a 2nd rd playoff gm. Yet, you have no problem rating teams like the Bulls and Bucks ahead of the Hawks, even though neither team has was able to make it past the Hawks, and/or get to the 2nd rd.

You, and certain others, claim the jury is still out on Hawks HC LDrew, because he’s considered an unknown. Explain how you can have that GLASS HALF EMPTY opinion about him, yet not have the same GLASS HALF EMPTY approach towards the Bulls new HC TThibodeau? Tell me, does he have more HC experience than LDrew? Wasn’t he an assistant, just like LDrew, or Woodson, before becoming a HC. Why in the hell isn’t the jury still out on him and his Bulls?

WHERE’S THE DAMNED LOGIC?

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No Shaq……So What!

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“For 2 people to attend an average game they’re looking at roughly spending about $170.00 total (or more) for the both of them (which includes decent tickets for about $60 each (or more), $15.00 for parking, $8.00-to-$10.00 for one drink each & $10.00-to-$12.00 for a food item(s)). Talk about astronomical!”

I don’t like the DASG any more than you do but this is flat-out false. First of all, there’s no reason to pay for parking at the arena when you can a) park at a MARTA station for free and take the train directly to the arena or b) park on the street at Centennial Place for free (across Ivan Allen from the aquarium) and walk five minutes to the arena. Secondly, you can get all that food and drink at CNN Center for half the price before you go inside (or you can do like me, don’t eat or drink anything at the game and go to Waffle House afterwards). It’s not that hard to sneak something from Great Wraps or Roman Delight into the arena in your pocket. Third, if you show up ten minutes after game time you can get those $60 seats for $40 from a scalper. Better yet, if you have a student ID card lying around in a closet somewhere you can get in for $15.

I go to 5-10 regular season games a year and I haven’t missed a playoff game yet since 2008. I have never paid more than $40 per person, even during the playoffs, let alone the $85 per person you are suggesting. The truth is Atlanta fans actually have it pretty good compared to pro sports fan in similar-sized cities. If you try to save money and you’re still paying $85 per person, it’s because you’re a sucker, not because the prices are too high.

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Is there editing going on, of my being critical of Skinner and Elson – and other Sports journalists making fun of us for looking at them also – 4 or 5 deleted so far trying to give the link, or even the website….

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Boston has taken two steps back with the addition of J Oneal and S oneal.Both are lazy and uninspired has-beens.The hawks will have an advantage over a lot of teams in the east because they are familiar with playing with each other.Just because teams have added or traded players from their roster doesn’t mean automatic success.Many nba experts still think highly of your hawks, i just can’t understand why so many of you fanatics think so negative of your team.

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“Refuse” should be refuses in the above post – sorry

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Ooops – too much info on the last post – another delete….

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Bucks = No Winners:Very Soft Squad:Over Acheived Last Season

Bulls = Utah Jazz East / Can be easily swept in second round

Heat = Dallas Mavericks 60+ win team / Can not win title without a dominant big man

My Celtics = Senior Citizens/Old Foggies/Old Farts/Too Slow/Will go fishing early in playoffs

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Steve W,

I’m not buying the Bucks are better than the Hawks. Yes they made some offensive upgrades with Gooden and Maggette. However neither one of those guys play a lick of defense even close to Skiles liking. Also Brandon Jennings has never seen a shot he didn’t like. He’s going to have to make the adjustment of having more talent around him in distributing the ball and running the team as opposed to having the green light to shoot like he did last year. Also Redd’s health is a huge question mark. Factoring his age and the serverity of his knee injury I don’t think Redd will ever be the player he used to be a few seasons ago.

Regarding the bigs that are left for the Hawks choose from, I would prefer the Hawks to sign Brown. Brown brings the size and bulk that the Hawks lack in the paint. Contrary to what believe about Brown, he is a solid defensive center and somewhat athletic. I question his motor sometimes but the talent is there for the Hawks to take shot on him. Brown also needs to be more realistic in regards to what type of money he get in free agency as well.

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I think i rather go see a Thrashers game than watch the Hawks at least the Thrash maid some big moves this year.

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Fact – Sund pocketed 3m and to this point refuse to use it

Gee, that’s funny. I guess I must have dreamt that the Hawks just signed some guy who wears #2 to a $124M contract.

It’s not like the cash from the draft pick trade was paid in marked bills that we can trace and determine exactly what it was spent on. It was mixed in with the rest of the Hawks’ revenues, and those revenues are used to pay the Hawks’ various expenses. Money isn’t so easily compartmentalized like that.

Oh, and btw, NBA rules prevent the owners and GM from “pocketing” anything. Money that goes to the team must stay with the team. Capital cannot be withdrawn by owners or other team officials. If that weren’t the rule, the many owners who experience personal financial crises would be able to use the team’s revenues as a piggy bank and teams would go bankrupt.

Like I said up top, I don’t think ASG’s moves the past couple summers have been cheap. I think they’ve been dumb. No one can be cheap if they’re willing to pay Joe Johnson a 6-year max contract. Dumb isn’t better than cheap, but it’s different.

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Chris Hunter anyone?

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MC.
A possible trade scenario…….. Put JJ at SF while moving Jamal into the starting lineup at SG.

Trade Marvin Williams and Josh Smith to Golden State for Biedrins and move Horford to PF.

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Okay -~- time for a G-dad Trade o’ the Day:
[to get yawl's mind off that 8th bench spot]
* If ‘n there was one (sometime between now & tr. deadline)

Cleveland gets:
Marv & Mo

Hawks get:
Varejao & Daniel Gibson

Works on trade machine!

1st you say Cleveland would never go for that.

Here’s the Cav’s motivation:
Varejao actually has a (sort of) bad contract;
*He’ll be 33 when upon it’s completion.
*avg about $8 mil per
plus Gibson is on the books for a couple of yrs @ $4 mil
(they just picked up Sessions via trade)
They get rid of two contracts / freeing roughly $12 mil
Mo is expiring + Marv is 4 yrs younger than Varejao.
* + They claim they wanted Marv earlier / anyway.
Marv avgs $7 mil / thus [the trade] saving Cleve 5 mil per.
Next yr. cavs in full blown rebuilding mode.

Our motivation:
obvious – Varejao = 6-11, 260 & a def specialist.
DG = 47% 3 pt shooter & backup pt guard.

Trade also works straight up Marv for Varejao. [trade machine]

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*disrespec[t]ful*

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Grandad,

If CLE would do Varejao for Marvin straight up, I’d do that in a heartbeat. Sign someone off the street to play SF when JJ wasn’t there.

How about Varejao (or as Big Ray calls him, Flopzilla) and Moon for Marvin and Zaza?

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Acie law won the Bob cousy award his senior year for the best PG in college. And he was the second PG drafted behind Mike Conley.

I was a big fan of acie in college. But he had 2 major problems (IMO):

1) injuries 2) woody

I think teague will be solid, and I think LD (a former PG for many years) and bibby (a good team Guy) will do a good job helping to get teague ready.

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KevinM,

Its hard to compare teague with collision. Collison was getting minutes from before CP3 got hurt. And he did not have to worry about being pulled after 1 mistake.

Also, collison did not have an all star SG and the soon to be SMOY SG to pass the ball to and get out of the way, which I think is what woody wanted.

If anything, I think teague’s issues were mentally, he just never got comfortable enough to relax and play his game.

Go look at rondo’s minutes early in his career when he was getting bench minutes (sometimes sporadic).

And then look at the big improvement once They made Rondo a starter.

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Sautee

I’m still of the mind that Josh can play the [3].
-plus-
Joe will play the [3] alot,
-so-
between Josh & Joe we have the [3] nailed down.

LD’s offense lend’s itself to:
Positions will not be stereotyped as in the past.
Defensively one cannot tell me that Josh
is incapable of guarding someone, yet Marv is.

Also factor in Luke Jackson, really, seriously, no kiddin’, maybe?

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And “experts” in this league (the NBA) are very high on Pachulia, regardless of whether we are or not. I’ve read too many opinions too many times really singing his tune. He’s considered a good ball player.

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“Pachulia – a starter on many NBA teams. ”

Name one playoff team where he would start.

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The state of the Salary cap for all teams…

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=17012

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Najeh – I Never said he would start on a playoff team…. But maybe Boston for one – how about the Heat – How about the Suns? Maybe OKC – the Jazz? Arguements could be made….

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Grandad,

“LD’s offense lend’s itself to:
Positions will not be stereotyped as in the past.
Defensively one cannot tell me that Josh
is incapable of guarding someone, yet Marv is.”

Grandad. You are actually coming around. Anything Marv can do, Josh can do better, besides free throw shooting, and MAYBE jump shooting. I don’t see why people don’t see that.

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“Woody didn’t seen Teague taking them any further than Bibby, so he chose the vet.”

Woody didn’t see much of anything. He played Bibby over Teague because his simplistic, isolation-heavy, easy-to-defend offense was a better fit with a shooter like Bibby than a quick drive-and-dish guard like Teague, and because if he played the veteran and lost he could claim that he didn’t have the players, whereas if he played the rookie and lost he would have been questioned for his decision.

“Blame Woody, but Teague didn’t exactly play lights out when he got minutes did he?”

Teague played 20 minutes or more in 9 games last season. Here were his stats in those games:

24 mpg… 10.4 ppg… 2.7 rpg… 5.4 apg… 1.2 spg… .6 bpg… 1.8 TO/g… 3 A/T ratio… 47.4% shooting, 26.7% 3fg, 84.2% free throws, 2.1 FT attempts/g

Here are Bibby’s season averages:

27 mpg… 9.1 ppg… 2.3 rpg… 3.9 apg… 0.8 spg… 0.0 bpg… 1.1 TO/g… 3.5 A/T ratio… 41.6% shooting, 38.9% 3fg, 86% free throws, 1.0 FT attempts/g

In other words, when Teague actually got more than chump change playing time, he scored more points, grabbed more boards, dished out more assists, and racked up more steals and blocks than Bibby, all while shooting a better percentage from the field. Bibby shot better from 3 and took care of the ball better, but Teague got to the free throw line twice as often and converted there at nearly the same rate.

Maybe that’s not “lights out”, but it’s a clear upgrade over what the Hawks got out of the point guard position last year. And presumably, those numbers would have been better if Teague had a consistent role and got a chance to build chemistry with his teammates. Of course, stats don’t mean everything, and it will be a work in progress for Teague to learn the fine points of playing the point guard position, but it’s perfectly fair to expect the team to improve with him starting. Teague doesn’t have to be Collison right away in order to be an upgrade.

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Untouchable!

Najeh … Damn Man! Can’t nobody mess with you.
Your communication levels, stats and facts are,m well – Rich!

Your Ish is UNTOUCHABLE!
You broke down that Bibby -vs- Teague game, like … Woe!

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WHAT ABOUT ME !!!

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“Wanna see an interesting stat? Go to 82games.com and click on the Hawks link. On the very 1st page, you’ll see everyone on our roster listed. Look in the +/- column. While Horford had the highest on court +/- number, guess who was 2nd?

Mike Bibby”

Those stats are interesting, I guess, but I really don’t have any idea what they mean (nor is there any clear explanation posted anywhere). Why is Bibby 5th on the team in “simple rating”? For that matter, what the hell IS “simple rating” and why are the players sorted by that stat? How different would that net +/- have been for Bibby if the guy who played PG when he left the game (more often than not Crawford) was actually a PG? If Bibby is so important, why is he -2.7 in net PER?

The net points stat you cite seems to be more of a reflection of Bibby playing with the starters than Bibby being a good player. If you go to other teams’ pages, it seems like every team’s starters are in the plus and every team’s bench players are in the minus in that column. All I can tell from that website is that Horford, Smoove, and Joe are the Hawks’ best players, and to be honest I could have figured that out without a bunch of random-azz stats.

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you can throw names around all you want to, as long as the hawks have rick sund in charge they won’t go no where.listen at what he says,he’s trying to follow like detroit and san antonio.shows you he doesn’t know any basketball himself.danny ainge is not copying other teams.he knows basketball and personnel.sund knows neither so how can he mold a team when he don’t know the game? i feel sorry for all of you loyal hawks fans.its going to be a long season with rick sund in charge and trying to lead the way, thats very funny.

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Big Ump

*but my Mom went to The Bavard-sp School of Music…
(I play a little piano myself … took lessons for 12 years as a kid and can read notes.)

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6) Mo Evans’ decline was because of Mo Evans. And his decine actually started in the 08 – 09 playoffs. If you’re a jumpshooter, and you stop making shots, should the coach keep playing you?

But blame the former coach for that. Also blame the former coach for Mo’s defense falling off, and that brick lay-up he shot in that Orlando playoff game.

********

7) Like with Marvin and Mo, it’s so easy to blame the former coach, than to actually blame the player I see. Every Hawk fan knows that Zaza played like crap until about the final 2 months of the season.

Hoopsstats.com. ranked Zaza 61st last year in efficiency amongst all centers. 61st. That means that almost all 2nd string centers were better than Zaza. The Hall of Famer that just signed with Boston ranked 25th, by the way.

*********

Ken . . Jason Collins is below garbage. As much as I downplayed the abilities of the scrub big men in the draft, I would bet that ALL of those guys are better than Jason Collins.

Mr. Gearon suggests that the former coach used him wrong. LOL . . how do you use a useless player wrong? That dude does nothing tangible, but pick up fouls, and occasionally sets a decent screen. Why bring back a guy who is worthless and out of shape, and try to sell to the fan base that he can help us?

As for Powell, this will be Powell’s 6th team in 6 years. He has been a fringe player everywhere he’s gone. So is he expected to be a frontline player in our 2nd unit? Or would we be better off rotating Horford and Marvin at backup PF?

Powell isn’t “below gargabe” like Collins is, but he IS garbage.

LOL @ me typing all of this crap on my phone. And I still have to address his other 3 points.

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Yall wanted a backup SF where it may be in the works…

http://thehoopsmarket.blogspot.com/2010/08/atlanta-hawks-in-talks-to-bring-pape-sy.html?%20utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+TheHoopsMarket+(The+Hoops+Market)&utm_content=Google+Reader

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@niremetal

Why would you go postal if the Hawks bring over Pape Sy? He’s not the worse player in the league and he’ll get some minutes so he can get a jump over next year.

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Yeah, the only opposition to Pape Sy I have is that the Hawks would have to pay a buyout to his French team to bring him here, and it would be highly hypocritical of them to pay a buyout to a European team for a guy of Sy’s caliber if they won’t go over the luxury tax for a guy of Shaq’s caliber. Disregarding the buyout, I’m all for bringing Sy here.

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Papa didn’t look that bad in summer leagues. I prefer him over Mario West…

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drmaryb, I’m not old enough to remember most of the players on the “50 Greatest” list — I was in elementary school when Nique was traded to the Clippers — so my opinion on that probably wouldn’t be all that relevant. If I had to guess why he was left off, it’s probably because he seems to be viewed the same way players like Tracy McGrady are viewed today, as a great individual player who didn’t have what it took to turn a team into a consistent winner in the playoffs. I have no idea to what extent that perception is true, and why players like Charles Barkley (who did make the list) are not viewed that way, but it is what it is.

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Astro Joe

What years were you with Shalamar.?. 9 times out of ten we have met in the past. Astro Joe I still do some work for Gold Key Entertainment Inc. Do you remember Mr Charles Geer who were the Regional Promotion Directory for Atlantic Records?. He the CEO for Gold Key and doing Independent Radio Promotions. We just gave Mr Geer a tribute at the Backstage Lounge which is owned by Frakie Beverly and his manager Joe. a week before the 4th of July. I think drmaryb pulling our legs about she don’t have music talent? Right drmaryb (smile). Astro Joe would love to chat with you sometimes about your stint with Shalamar. What Jody doing now? Is she overseas performing, because that’s where the big money is for us old school musicans.

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9) IF i had to give out grades for each post game, Smoove would get a C+ . . . Horford a C.

Smoove was probably a D when he first came into the league, but he showed some decent moves this year. The running left hook seems to be one of his favorite shots in the post. Smoove’s main problem is that he’s still not making his move forceful enough.

Horford likes to shoot the jump hook. He’s definitely putting in work trying to develop it, but we all know what the problem is. He’s too small in the most vs most centers.

Both guys are best when they are 15 ft from the basket, and can face their man. Smoove, when he’s not jumpshot happy, will use his speed to take his man off the dribble. Horford will size his man up, and take the 15 – 18 foot jumper.

Horford obviously needs more touches. He’s more efficient scoring the ball than Smoove. And that midrange jumper of his could enable him to up his scoring average significantly, if Drew’s offense gets him a ton of open looks.

Both guys rely heavily on others to set up their shots. Creating their own shots are not their strengths.

**********

10) The “Death of ISO” is going to be dependent upon how well the other players look in the new offense. As I said a few weeks ago, the two numbers to watch, are the eFG% and the Turnover%.

If the eFG% goes up, and the Turnover value stays close to the same or up just a little, then Drew’s offense is working. But if that eFG% goes down, and the turnovers go up . . Houston, we have a problem.

And once again, I think the lack of a consistent threat on the inside may be the problem. In this league, you almost have to be able to play inside-out basketball, in order to advance deep in the playoffs. We’ll be able to get away without doing it during the regular season, but not in the playoffs.

But we have to knock down open jumpshots in order to make that work. And once we see Drew’s offense, I’m sure it will create more opportunities to get open jumpers, than it will lay-ups at the basket.

*********

11) Which brings me to Mr. Johnson. I’m a JJ supporter, and he’s easily my favorite player. I love how smooth and under control his game is. Having said that, there are no more excuses for him either.

“With great contract comes great responsibility.”

JJ doesn’t have to average 30 ppg . . . but if his trips to the FT line don’t increase, he better be looking to become a 48% – 50% shooter from the field and a 40% 3-point range shooter.

10 – 19 FG nights need to become the norm for him, rather than the exception. Let’s see if the new magical offense can see that it happens more regular.

Even if it doesn’t, it’s still up to him to not let us go out like suckas. And that means no 4 – 15 FG games in the playoffs either.

Personally, if Drew’s new offense does work, I don’t think it will help everybody, but it definitely may help JJ

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We may also be getting Sy for locker room harmony:

We sign Boone – Powell liable to get mad

We sign Kwame – Collins liable to get mad

And since we can only activate 13 per nite – who do we de-activate in the above scenario – Kwame/Boone, Collins, and JoCrawford on a rotating basis?

Man get Garret Siler as well – MC said he did badly in summer league – but some NBA types were very high on him from summer league – 75% FG – high rebounding rate per minutes played.

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Since the hawks missed on the centers this offseason I think its time to start looking trade. Here is the best i can come up with; Jamal Crawford has an expiring contract next summer and is probably not in the long term plans, so how about trading him now for Anderson Varejao. Clevelend needs to somehow replace LeBron’s points and Jamal can give you 30 on many of nights. Varejao would be an excellent fit with Al, much like Noah from the U of Fla days and would play D and hustle. Their salaries are very similar and I think it instantly makes the hawks as good as anyone in the East. Move Josh to the 3 and tell him to slash and pass with the occaisional mid range jumper, and I would love to see him matched against Bron and Paul Pierce. Marvin can replace Jamal as the 6th man. As currently constructed the Hawks are the 5-6th best team in th East and will probably not make it out the first round

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And Rashard Lewis is owed over 65 million dollars over the next 3 years – at age 31, 32, 33 – talk about a bad contract!

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Nire – I agree that if Jason Collins gets in the best shape of his life – he can defend Dwight fairly well. Big body and smart (Stanford man).

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Sorry I’m on a roll on bad contracts – I’m a math guy – But Mike Miller is going to making 7 m per at age 35 with the Heat?

Haslem is going to be making around that as well

Carlos – oft injured/poor defense – Boozer is going to be making 16.8m at age 33? I smell a terrible contract there

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Elton Brand due 18.3m – in 3 years at age 34?

And I’m only doing long term bad contracts – not 1 year bad like Redd and Stojavic etc.

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I don’t think its a bad move at all to bring Sy over. I liked what I saw out of him during the summer league before he got hurt. He looks like he can play about 3 positions. I say bring him over.

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Can you say Hedo Turkoglo due 14.1m in 3 years at age 34?

And I’m leaving out alot of marginally bad contracts..

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And you talk about eating up cap space – the Big Three in Miami may look like bargains now – and they’ll still be bargains next year.

But after that, Wade starts to get old, then Bosh, and their trapped with Miller and Haslem for the next 5 years – so if a Bosh goes down, they have no cap space to get anybody else.

And if Bynum’s healthy, i don’t think they win a Championship this year or next. Can you imagine Artest and Barnes harassing LeBron all game? Kobe on D-Wade? Gasol/Odom eat Bosh’s lunch – and they have no answer for Bynum in the middle.

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I also meant to add that I wouldn’t start Varejao; I’d prefer to bring him off the bench similar to how the Cavs have been doing, and give him more playing time when the Hawks face off against bigger opponents. Smoove at the 3 is not a good idea.

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Ok – almost done – Andrei Kirelenko is going to make 17.8 mill. this year? And we complain about Joe – making 16.3m this year? End of story

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SteveW — agree completely with all those points. The word “overpaid” is all relative, and while a max deal for Joe may be more than he deserves, he’s only one of many players getting paid like they are better than they actually are. Like I’ve said before, Joe may be getting paid like someone he’s not, but he’s still a top 25 player who has proven he can be the best player on a 50-win team. What’s holding the Hawks back salary-wise is Marvin, Bibby, and Zaza, not Joe.

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SteveW
“Smoove at the 3 is a bad idea.”

Can you explain this rationale?

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“I actually thought my Varejao trade scenario today @ 5:36 pm
was better. Plus the #’s were matched per tr. machine.”

I like your scenario better for the Hawks — anything that allows the Hawks to dump Marvin and gain something of value is fantastic — but I really don’t think that at his contract Marvin has any trade value, and certainly not enough to land a player of Varejao’s caliber. The Crawford-for-Varejao trade is much more likely to be accepted by Cleveland, while still being beneficial to Atlanta.

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Najeh

You must be about 30 something years. Thanks for the response. As always good stuff!

I see Coach Drew might get his man – Pape Sy, after all?
I like it … I like it. That answers the Raja Bell (my choice) and Matt Barnes question at – Perimeter Defense. One thing is for sure, we will have a very athletic and tall perimeter group of guys. That should bother LeBron, Wade, Kobe and Rashard a little.

Now, if Teague can slow down the PG’s? We might make some noise on the
fringes and wings.

I like it! What about a rebounder? Any fake Rodmans or Barkleys out there?

“You can not WIN without the Ball!”
– Sir Charles Barkley -
Famous Qoute of his!

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The blocks record indicates more of an inside skill set – but he’s athletic enough to have a ton of steals also. 2nd in All-NBA Defensive player of the year balloting at the 4 – would probably be less effective as a 3.

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Najeh

Let’s see Jordan Crawford produce before we decide it’s a position of strength.
I’m pulling for the young man, but he has proven anything yet.
At least not enough to me to consider Jamal expendable.

On my trade scenarios, I try to find a motivation for the other team.
Of course, my trades are always gonna be more beneficial to the Hawks.

I’ve got a great one coming soon.

***To Whomever***
Someone mentioned earlier that Elton Brand was 34 yrs old.
[unless I mis-read the post]
EB is 31 as of 3/11/10.

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Grand-Daddy

I love my Grand-Daddy!
Hey babe, what are you doing up? Its past your bed time.
I see you still helping the ASKG – You are THE trade machine.

Keep it coming Poppy. Hey what are your thoughts on bringing
Pape Sy sooner rather than later?

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SteveW

Interesting;
If you standardize that position.
Let us start on offense shall we/
[3] is only a #, a pos. & if you are of the mindset to pigeonhole
that pos. then you are correct. However in LD’s motion offense,
which means just that [moving parts] a [3] just like everyone else
will be setting screens, slipping screens, cutting, coming off screens,
well you get the point…I hope. For the sake of argument, what if we
added a a stretch [5] (Bargnani), would you then want Josh to go to
the bench or play the [3]? Although Your [5] could at that point fulfil
your expectations of a [3]. Another point, Josh is an excellent passer
(much better than Marv) better suited for ball movement on the perimeter.
Also Josh is a better slasher than Marv, better suited on the perimeter.
However, you are correct, if the [3] is just gonna stand in the corner,
then by all means let’s play Bibby @ the [3]. Last season all Josh did
was stand around during Iso-Joe anyway.
Therefore by your calculations lets play 3 guards & J&A can play the
[4] & [5]. Plus Carmelo Anthony & Caron Butler have become pretty
good small forwards w/o a 3 pt shot. Not to mention Shane Battier
who impacts a game w/o even scoring.

Now defense;
according to the coaches individual responsibility & straight man
will replace the switching. For the life of me I cannot see how this
is going to hurt Josh & his shotblocking, which he’s a help side
shotblocker anyway. He’s a better athlete than Marv, surely he can
defend as well as Marv. [personally, I think of Ron Artest]
I also feel that both Josh & Al will be better when not out-manned
physically every night. This way they will match up if not outman
their opponent.

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SteveW

In addition:
You said Josh does not posess the skill set of a [3].
Other tha a jump shot, what skill set does Marv possess
that Josh does not? By the way, I’m not ripping Marv,
as I actually think he’s been out of pos all these yrs.

I would like to pose a situational question:
Josh & Joe on the pick & roll or pick & pop.
Josh with ball (facing), Joe the screener.
How do “you” defend those two in that set-up?

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“Other tha a jump shot, what skill set does Marv possess
that Josh does not? By the way, I’m not ripping Marv,
as I actually think he’s been out of pos all these yrs.”

Marvin has better lateral quickness than Josh, which allows him (if he wants) to defend opposing SFs better. I’d also say that although it doesn’t show in the results, the form on Marvin’s shot is better than Josh’s form, which would theoretically allow Marvin to be a better shooter if he wanted to develop that skill.

What do you think is Marvin’s true position, if not SF? I’ve always thought he had the ideal body type and physical abilities for an NBA SF.

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Najeh ,

If you ask me, Marvin is built a lot like Antawn Jamison (Antawn has better shoulders, though), making him a decent fit at the 4. At 6′9″ 245, he’s got enough size, and he’s actually got some strength. He’s just all ass and elbows, so he all too often doesn’t seem fluid enough for SF. I always thought of him as an oversized SF. That’s just me, though…and NO, I don’t want him playing the PF spot over Josh, lol.

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Najeh Davenpoop

Maybe that’s not “lights out”, but it’s a clear upgrade over what the Hawks got out of the point guard position last year. And presumably, those numbers would have been better if Teague had a consistent role and got a chance to build chemistry with his teammates. Of course, stats don’t mean everything, and it will be a work in progress for Teague to learn the fine points of playing the point guard position, but it’s perfectly fair to expect the team to improve with him starting. Teague doesn’t have to be Collison right away in order to be an upgrade.

You don’t know how glad I was to see somebody post that besides me…

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Grandad ,

Enjoyed your comments all day yesterday. Good trade proposals…

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northcyde is now singing to the choir. welcome

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Bring in Big Pape and trade Bibby & Evans to Charlotte for Boris Diaw…Sign Josh Boone…Adds athleticism & versatility to our second unit.

Teague / Ja Crawford / Sy
Johnson / Jo Crawford
Williams / Diaw
Smith / Powell
Horford / Pachulia / Boone

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I read on this blog how you would trade Josh Smith for peanuts. Don’t get me wrong I’m not saying that JS is the best player in the league, but what I am saying is that JS is a very good player. Let’s look at the stats to compare JS and Lebron (I’m not saying that JS is a good as LJ, but let’s compare). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocaatPvI90k

Josh Smith — Lebron James

scoring

15.7 < 29.7

rebounds

8.7 > 7.0

steals

130 > 125

assists

4.2 < 7.0

blocks

173 > 77

T.O.

2,44 > 3.29

So I hear a lot of speaking as if you know what you’re talking about, but what I see from JS stats is a very talented player. I’m happy that know of you are the GM of this team because, I would never approve of a trade for CP3 for JS.

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Grandad – didn’t say that Elton Brand was 34 – said he was going to still be owed a boatload of cash when he is 34

Drmaryb – nobody ever said Smoove couldn’t develop a jumper – I think we’re just wanting him to quit hoisting up bricks until he does. And he holds the record for greatest decrease in NBA history of 3pt. attempts from 1 season to another of a healthy player – kudos to Woody and Price I guess for that.

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Macaroni Tony – Especially not with CP3 coming off rather severe knee surgery….

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Big Ray – could you do those calculations without that 48 minute game he played, last game of the season while we were resting the starters? He had to be a star that night, because every starter was getting rest, and I think it skews the numbers for the point your making.

And I am very high on Jeff Teague’s potential….

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Closing thoughts on our 2010-11 Atlanta Hawks:

Joe Johnson will be an All-Star again assuming he doesn’t get hurt

Josh and Al will be close – and could very well be All-Stars

Beside injury, the X factors will be:

1) Can Teague play, and did Bibby train well in the off season?

2) Can Drew and company coach – and will the players buy into his system?

3) Is Jason Collins in decent shape?

4) Will Marvin develop or regress more?

5) Will we get another legit big?

If all of these are positives, we can have another very good season, possibly exceeding last year in many respects.

Just to temper our excitement however – 8 or our 82 games (almost 10%) are against the Magic and the Heat.

As Chuck Tanner used to say “This could be the year”!

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Wow! a Chuck Tanner reference…reached back in the archives for that one!

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I see J Colllins as I saw Lorenzen (RIP) overwhelming gifts, underwhelming performance! Plus he is an aging Big who has figured out how to keep collecting a check. Wont be much more help than last year less weight and all.

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The Hawks don’t need to acquire someone to replace AHorford as the starting center, just someone to back him up. Some of you are using your obsession with the idea he’s UNDERSIZED, or PLAYING OUT OF HIS NATURAL POSITION, to fuel the idea he needs to be replaced and moved to PF.

How many of you think RSund and the ASG would be willing to even think of buying out Sy’s contract and adding him to the roster if Woodson was still our HC? And lets face it, none of us has ever heard anyone in the Hawks organization ever mentioned the idea of us needing to acquire a starting quality center when Woodson was coaching.

With Woodson’s hangups with rookies and using his bench, the ASG wasn’t willing to waste money signing any expensive bench warmers, or bring over any of the foreign players(rookies) they’ve stashed. That move would have ended up being a waste of time, money and talent.

I think LDrew has given the ASG the confidence to invest in younger talent, like JPowell, PSy and JTeague. I believe JPowell and JSmith will eventually make an excellent PF combination. They’re both very athletic, and seem to compliment each other, since Powell is a much better outside shooter, and Smoove seems to possess better low post scoring skills.

To me, it appears LDrew is looking to out run teams with his fast break OFF, and out quick and out maneuver them in his half court OFF. If we do bring PSy over, it will give us an intriguing back court combination, with JJ, PSy, JaCrawford, JoCrawford, JTeague and MBibby.

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Anthony Tolliver is a guy some of us liked for a while. In GS, he averaged 7 rpg, and also made 50 three pointers in 46 games. Compare that to Marvin, our SF, who made 40 three pointers in 81 games.

Tolliver would have been a good backup PF, especially in LD’s motion offense.

Meanwhile, Bulls sign Keith Bogans to a 2 year deal for the vet minimum(only 1 year guaranteed). As a backup SG, I think Keith Bogans is comparable to Mo Evans.

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That Trade Machine link is for simulating trades between teams.
There are 5 steps and has no purpose unless you play that game.

I’m on Blackberry, so maybe I am missing something?

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I eat and breath the NBA.. its like we are picking over the guts of a corpse when the meats already gone. David Stern said it right when he was talking about the 5 worst ownerships.. of course.. Atlanta was named. He said , “I will never let another large group come in and take one of my NBA franchises again.” Theyre in court bickering, and freeagent signings cant be agreed upon. the prob is at the top. Get an Arthur Blank owner and in 1 years tops you will have a center and point guard , nuff said.;

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Hoops

My point was I didn’t see anything? Maybe I don’t know how to acess the proposals. All I saw was 5 steps. So perhaps the link doesn’t work on the
Blackberry.

No big deal. Iam not very smart with IT or electronics/gadgets.
But, I can read and comprehend pretty well. LOL

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SteveW ,

Heh. First, that was Najeh’s point, not mine. But I did make a similar post a few times during the season, and I do not need that game in which he “had to be a star.” In fact, I’ll take you much further back into the season.

As you well know, Teague’s minutes were up and down (mostly down) for the season, but there was ONE instance where he played what I call significant minutes for several games in a row. It was a 5 game span from December 9th to December 18th. He averaged 21 minutes per game through this stretch. The results are as follows (and you can look up his game logs on NBA.com to re-check me):

17 of 35 from the field (48.5%), 26 assists (5.2 per game), 8 steals (1.6 per), and 42 points total (8.4 per).

Now does that mean he is or can be a star? No. Does that mean he should have had the starting job at any time last year, or should start this season ahead of Bibby? No. Does it mean anything at all?

What it means is this – during a time period in which he was given consistent, significant minutes, he contributed. And he did so in more than just a passing, insignificant fashion. My argument then is the same as my attitude now – give him the minutes and let him prove himself one way or the other.

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Al Horford IS an all-star right now. You’re an all-star until you’re not. Josh Smith on the other hand, has to rise to that level. Until you’re named, you’re just not , no matter how right or wrong it is. Ask Mike Bibby how that feels…

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Big Ray

No big deal. We’re not talking about Shaq and the inept at the top anymore anyway. I’ll give it rest (for now).

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Pape Sy, are u serious Hawks. If the Hawks sign Pape Sy they will have 7 guards on the roster of 12.

1Bibby
2 Joe
3 Jamal
4 Teague
5 Mo Evans 6″5 people
6 Jordan Crawford
7 Pape Sy 6″6 guard

That’s just stupid, so its probably what the Hawks will do

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Spitter

……. or swarm like gnats and play some small ball with our big guards?

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SteveW ,

Well, I over-emphasized that point during the season in hot debate (I’m sure Northcyde can tell you about that, LOL). I just think the kid can be a regular contributor, who may prove to be a starter soon enough. I’m high on his potential as well, I just don’t think he’ll jump into that starter’s role right off the bat, and all I ever really wanted was for him to get the chance to prove that either he’s a guy who can contribute, or a guy who can’t. During that given chance, he’ll also prove how ready he is to be “the man” at the pg position.

As for how he looked in summer league, that’s what led me to the conclusion that he may not be all that ready for a starter’s role. As has been said, some of that can be attributed to playing with inferior players. He missed out on a lot of assists during those games, and I noticed that same trend when he played during the regular season. There were a number of times he would make a perfectly sound or even brilliant pass, only to be fumbled or have a missed shot by Zaza, Joe Smith, sometimes Marvin. Forget Collins or RandMo…

All the same, the regular season is a totally different fire, and he will get to show his mettle. His first shot will be in training camp against his fellow teammates (plus an invite or two). His second will be in preseason. Then the regular season….sink or swim, and mind the rocks all the way. I think he will do well, but we’ll get to see what his learning-on-the-job curve looks like.

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The Salary Cap – we did not destroy our team for the future with the signing of JJ! Stop it!

Face it people, currently we are basing this team on JJ, Josh, and Al. These guys will probably get the max – depends on the next CBA (Collective Bargaining Agreement) (JJ already got the max).

Teague, JoCrawford, Marvin, and ZaZa are 2nd tier core who you try to keep around – the other 6 guys are a rotating basis of vet minimums, and Two Year Exception guys.

Do the math guys

The only year we will be in trouble, is JJ’s last year. And what usually happens is management says, “Look – your due 24.84 m next season – then your a 35 year old FA SG in this league – which means vet minimum if you can even find a taker. Your one of the greatest (fill in team here) ever. See those rafters? We want your jersey retired up there. We have a cushy $250,000 a year job for you until your 65 as yada yada yada.”

“Here’s the deal. We give you 15m this year. But instead of the vet minimum next year, you get 9m. And at age 36 – instead of the vet minimum, you get 9m. You come out 4.5m ahead – you retire with your team instead of being an afterthought journeyman – You get a job after your NBA career is over – and we get salary cap relief this year, so you can win – deal?” “Deal”, almost every player says in the above scenario.

But if JJ doesn’t bite – yes, we may be in luxury tax territory in his last year – because it will also be Horford’s last years also – but Josh will only be in the 3rd year of his deal – so he should be fine.

That last year – JJ – 24.89 m
Al – about 19m
Josh – about 18m

62 m – With Teague and Marvin (if their both still around) your in luxury tax territory – but not until

And the CBA could change all this….Probably will

And ASG only lost 20m (reported) not 30m

And Las Vegas and Seattle are looking for teams – don’t leave ASG!!!

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Sund is a master of the cap – I have a big disagreement with the sports writers who have written otherwise. He knows whats coming (except for injuries and that type of thing) years from now.

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Northcyde – that’s why I see our team as something like:
Horford
ZaZa
Josh
Marvin
JJ
Teague
Bibby
JoCrawford
Maybe a 1st pick
Pape Sy
Gladyr may get a look
Trey Gilder or some other vet minimum guy
A couple of vet minimum bigs

Unless a trade goes down – you never know….?

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“If we do bring PSy over, it will give us an intriguing back court combination, with JJ, PSy, JaCrawford, JoCrawford, JTeague and MBibby.”

I know you like to refer to players by first initial-last name, but maybe you want to refer to Mr. Sy differently. Just saying…

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LOL@Najeh….

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Paps can defend the [1-3].
LD loves ‘im.
Makes Marv expendable, if’n he pans out.
Future starting [3]? / Point forward?
Perfect last roster guy.
His defense will be the key!!!

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The only thing I see out of all this mental masturbation is that we got a new offensive coach that wont stress defense and thats scary, Woody was a darned good defensive coach , .. by the middle of the season, Teague may have flashes of looking pretty good , but the rest of the team will be having flashes of being stagnate. Look for Sund to make a move. I see a 1st round pick going to Washington for McVale their Center… (not my first choice but that’s all that he can get). I would prefer Gortat, but lets be realistic Magic wont make their direct competition stronger.

….ding….

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SteveW & [Najeh] but mostly – *SteveW*

1st – Bibby @ the [3] was obviously my attempt
@ being facetious.

Now to compare Josh & Malone, in my mind is
apples & oranges.
[Al is a better comparison to Malone]
Why not compare Josh to LbJ or Dr.J?
Not a good comparison; you say, fine.
Lets move on w/o comparing & just talk
skill set and or what we have seen of
Josh’s capabilities and not what you
project him to be.

You continue to say;
he’s runner-up defensive player of the yr.
Does that lock him in to only guarding one
pos, with no versatility whatsoever?
And, what about the switching def he played
a yr ago, where he defended everything from
a point guard to a center. Lets also talk
about what he’s capable of playing now and
not what he will be forced to play when he
get’s old.

For Najeh, I most respectfully disagree that
Josh has any less athleticism than Marv, be it
lateral quickness or no. Certainly not lateral
agility.

*SteveW – again:
Awaiting your answer on defending the P&R with:
Josh + Joe running it or the pick & pop?
Another:
If one does not defend Josh [perimeter]
hand-offs (as utilized in triangle)
Joe or Jamal would rub their man off Josh
with no one to close on the wide open shooter.
My, a plethora of ways to use an athletic slasher
who is such a good play-maker.
My apologies in advance for the sarcasm.

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MC

No Shaq? – No Problem.

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Jason

I like it.

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My bad guys. Wrong blog.

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y do we hgave marvin williams still

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Has Shaq been eating at Taco Bell again?

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NORTHCYDE-MEvans and JaCrawford currently have expiring contracts, and Bibby’s contract will be expiring after this season. If Sy and JaCrawford pan out, I don’t see us resigning MEvans or JaCrawford, unless he’s willing to take a big discount. And if he takes a big discount, he becomes very valuable as a trade commodity. The ASG could trade Bibby’s contract next summer and allow MEvans to drop off the books, in order to help in resigning AHorford.

With the potential ramifications of the upcoming Collective Bargaining Agreement, Horford might end up doing what JaCrawford is trying to do, and that’s get his contract extended under the current CBA.

The way I understand LDrew’s motion OFF, there won’t be as much of a requirement for traditional PG duties, which might explain why he has so much confidence in Teagues ability to be an effective starter and/or contributor this yr. Basically, as I see it, he’ll be primarily required to use his speed, quickness and athleticism to push the ball in the open court, collapse half court DEF’s, hit the open shot, and play solid perimeter DEF.

With excellent passers like PF JSmith, C AHorford and SG JJohnson, it won’t be incumbent upon the PG to make the OFF work.

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Nellie Ball

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Marvin to the bench yeaaa Baby!!!!!

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Expects the blog to be on fire with anticipation and possible meaning of Hordford moving to PF in 5 4 3 2 1…..

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@drmaryb (*_*)

what is Rotoworld?

that is some good news

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I feel that Horford moving to the four is a major move, we don’t give ZaZa good credit. If he can keep down his fouls down he could be the big man that we need.

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I hope the rotoworld BS is true, but it really does not make sense as to why they passed on Shaq, even though I don’t like him, if that was true. Zaza is a garbage defender and so is Collins. The Hawks were one of the best offensive squads last year, they need defense in the paint and Zaza does not help

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How can you hope bs be true and be a truthspitter?

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Here is the original link to that story. It has a little more than the link that was posted

Horford @ PF

Drew is trying to put his stamp on this team. If Zaza is going to be a starter again, he better be ready to really step up to the plate. The article doesn’t necessarily say that he’ll start, but that’s the implication.

This also means more Smoove at SF . . which some people have been asking for years, and others think it’s a recipe for disaster. The Smoove at SF is what worries me, for obvious reasons. We’ll see what comes of this though. It doesn’t hurt to experiment with this during the preseason.

If Smoove does play more SF, I want him to become a passing playmaker, than trying to up his scoring. I think he has a better shot at averaging 5+ assist a game, than he does averaging 18+ ppg.

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Who is a better canidate than powell,za za or collins.Shaq-No Siler-No Boone-No
One thing i have noticed about za za this off season is that he is doing all he can to get tougher.Hes taking up boxing working on his footwork and man its going to pay-off.Za Za and Powell will play with much more heart next season because they both have something to prove.I would rather have players like that on my team rather than a bunch of has-beens or wannabes.Hard work pays off you will see the difference next season.

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One thing i like about Perkins and Wallace was that they enjoyed accepting their roles for the C’s and could step it up on any given night.Can Shaq and Jermaine Oneal bring what those guys brought on the court.NO! Did Shaq help the suns. NO! Did Shaq help the Cavs. NO! Will Shaq help the C’s. NO!Have Jermaine helped any of the 20 teams he has been on. NO! Are there any bigs out there that can take the hawks to the title? NO! Just look at the starting centers for team USA.The center position is dead in the nba.D.Howard and Amare is more like Ralf Sampson and Otis Thorpe than Olajuwan or Ewing. Now Good Night to one and all.

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northcyde-One last thing. The Hawks signing Shaq would have been a PR move. Yes Shaq would have put butts in seats but it would have killed team chemistry. Shaq game just feel down to nothing after he won the championship in Miami. No top center in nba history game went down like shaqs did. Ewing, Kareem, Wilt, Malone, Hakeem, David Robinson, Sabonis, Divac etc. were all servicable big men late in their 30’s. Shaq just doesn’t have it anymore.Shaq would have been a circus act for the hawks not a title contender move.

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For argument’s sake, let’s forget about Josh’s lack of lateral quickness which already limits him at SF and pretend he can play that position defensively. If Smoove moves to SF and Teague starts, that leaves one person on the floor who can knock down 3’s and two people on the floor who can hit mid-range jumpers with consistency. I don’t see how floor spacing would work in that situation. If Bibby starts, that’s one more guy who can stretch the floor, but then you severely decrease the ability to break down the defense and create easy shots.

To be honest, if Al moves to PF, I’d rather see Josh move to C over seeing someone from the poo-poo platter of Zaza, Collins, and Powell move into the starting lineup. And yes, I realize Josh is nowhere near big enough or strong enough to play C.

I’ll echo what the Rotoworld analysis said: “if they really want Horford at PF we’re not sure why they passed on Shaquille O’Neal.”

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Rondo,

Jamal Crawford played 10 years without helping a team get to the playoffs. And they said he was a malcontent in Golden State. But look what he did for the Hawks?

As for Shaq playing backup center for the entire season, we dont need him for the entire season. We need him for certain teams more than others. So we would have to rest him like Phoenix did, like Spurs do with Duncan, to make sure he is fresh for the playoffs.

As for Horford at PF, I think Shaq at center and Horford at PF would have been an awesome combination.

But thats water under the bridge.

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Usually, your SF’s are your outside scorers and your PF’s are your inside scorers. With Horford’s ability to score outside, it wouldn’t be a major problem to play Smoove at SF. He’d certainly have a major advantage over other SF in the post, and Horford would be effective whether outside or on the block.

With the motion OFF, which uses movement and a picks, the purpose is to force switches, create mismatches or gain separation from the defender. Since everyone sets picks, and everyone is in motion, the traditional idea of PF, SF, PG, SG or C position in this OFF will be skewed.

NORTHCYDE-As a first time HC, suppose LDrew didn’t want Shaq on the team because:
1-he didn’t want the potential headache that could arise if he didn’t give Shaq what he wanted.
2-if Drew started Horford over Shaq and the team go off to a slow start, do you really think Shaq wouldn’t start making an issue of him not starting?
3-LDrew might have decided Shaq wouldn’t be a good fit in his motion OFF, and the teams commitment to a fast breaking OFF.
4-LDrew isn’t obsessed with the idea of the Hawks needing Shaq, or any one player, to stop or contain DHoward.
5-LDrew trusts his DEF assistant to design a DEF strategy and system that will allow THE TEAM to contain dominant centers using a team DEF concept.
6-LDrew feels his players have the speed, quickness, athleticism and versatility to make the team DEF concept work.

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And also, considering how starved for toughness this Hawks team is, Shaq would have had a huge impact on Smoove and particularly Horford as far as showing them how to hold their ground in the post. Both of those guys have played their entire careers without any real veteran leader to show them the ropes when it comes to these things.

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Hey Stat Nerd. Stats don’t tell the whole story.Look at how many players have better carreer stats than Magic Johnson or Dominique does that translate to those guys being better players.NO.Shaq would have been to the hawks what he was to Suns.No playoff appearence.You can’t rely on Shaq to carry or teach other players he never has played the vet role in any locker-room he has been in.Shaq to the C’s make sense.Shaq to the Hawks would have been a disaster.

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Rondo . . what team chemistry? The chemistry that these guys showed during the playoffs last year? Just stop with the “chemistry” stuff. A team with “chemistry” does not get ripped like they did in the playoffs. Everybody melted down . . the coaches . . the players . . everybody. Whatever chemistry we had by playoff time, it was like having kool aid without sugar in it.

No top center in nba history game went down like shaqs did. Ewing, Kareem, Wilt, Malone, Hakeem, David Robinson, Sabonis, Divac etc. were all servicable big men late in their 30’s.

LOL . . what NBA did YOU watch?

PATRICK EWING: ( age 37 ) – 15 ppg – 9.4 rebs – 1.4 blks – 47% FG

KAREEM: ( age 37 ) – 22 ppg – 7.9 rebs – 2.1 blks – 60% FG

WILT: ( age 36 ) – 13.2 ppg – 18.6 rebs – ( no telling how many blks, but they weren’t recorded ) – 73% FG

MOSES MALONE: ( age 37 ) – 5.3 ppg – 4.1 rebs – 0.3 blks – 44% FG

HAKEEM: ( age 37 ) – 10.3 ppg – 6.2 rebs – 1.6 blks – 46% FG

ROBINSON: ( age 37 ) – 8.5 ppg – 7.9 rebs – 1.7 blks – 47% FG

SABONIS: ( age 36 ) – 10.1 ppg – 5.4 rebs – 1.0 blks – 47% FG

DIVAC: ( age 36 ) – 2.3 ppg – 2.1 rebs – 0.1 blks – 42% FG

SHAQ: ( age 37 ) – 12 ppg – 6.7 rebs – 1.2 blks – 57% FG

((( note: The guys I listed as age 36, were playing in their final season in the league. )))

*************************

( Each player’s PER in those years )

Kareem: 22.9
Wilt: 19.1
Sabonis: 18.4
Shaq: 17.9
Robinson: 17.8
Ewing: 16.9
Olajuwon: 16.7
Divac: 10.5

So by this list, the only guys who were head and shoulders over Shaq around age 37, were Wilt and Kareem. And when you look at the PER of each player, Shaq is 4th on that list, while Divac’s PER is even lower than Zaza’s last year.

Just stop homie.

Stop with the lame excuses about Shaq not being productive or garbage. If the Hawks are indeed about to move Al Horford to PF, the ASG royally (( bleeped )) up by not adding Shaq to help bolster the frontline.

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LOL . . I see Najeh was doing the exact same thing I was doing.

Rondo . . Shaq made 3rd team ALL-NBA and won the MVP at the All-Star game while with the Suns in 2008 – 09. The Suns problem is that Amare missed 29 games that year, and the Phoenix bench was weak as hell.

And the only thing that Nique did better than Magic, was score the basketball. He did NOTHING else better than Magic.

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Rondo . . how about watching some NBA games. You simply don’t know what you’re talking about. Even with the Cavs last year, Mo Williams was a much bigger problem in Cleveland, than Shaq was. The Cavs were 40 – 13 with Shaq in the lineup. Even in the playoffs, it was the meltdown of Lebron that was the single most important thing to cause the Cavs to lose that series, not Shaq.

You’re simply a “Shaq hater”. You guys will blatantly overlook things, just to say that he’s garbage because he’s not the “old Shaq”. But in the same breath, not even admit that the dude is still better than 75% of the centers in this league, including the big men we have on our bench.

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I wasn’t comparing Magic to Dominique but my point was made.And when Amere went down Shaq didn’t have enough gas to carry the Suns even though he was voted by the fans to be an all-star.

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Thank you Mary Ellen.

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Rondo

If you can’t hang with them BIG DOGS – Stay on the porch!

Najeh & NorthCyde just gave you a simultaneous WEDGIE,
and now you are wearing a THONG!

Say Uncle … Give it up … Throw in the towel …. Blow the Whistle.
Take your pick!

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Grand-Daddy

I tried to tell em’ – but, they hard headed! That makes a soft behind.

Rondo

Go back to sleep – baby, you tired. You will see clearly in the morning.
But, we still love you. (Bless his heart.). He just slooow …

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By this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtRDJRyoTOc&feature=related all I wish for is that Larry Drew should have been the Hawks head coach long time ago. The way that he teaches and his calmness will take our team mentally to a new level. Another thing is that he’s not afraid to play rookies, more of the roster, and change the line up according to the team that we would be facing.

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Calling you a stat nerd can’t compare to what that sick truth-serum did to this blogg.Stats don’t equal facts kid.I post nothing but facts son you rely on stats.Are you the ultimate judge on this blogg, just if someone disagrees with you don’t compare them to T.S.All coments on this blogg comes from a biased approach. I like Iverson or T-Mac to the hawks do you agree with me that they would be good fits.No.Well i guess that makes you obnoxious from my point of veiw.

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Good doctor all northcyde and najeh proved is that they are fanatics.

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Fox Sports is NOT the Bible, Sir. Far, far, far from it! I blocked that station on my satellite receiver.

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O’brien

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the article did say specifically,
Josh to play some at SF and Marvin to da’ bench.

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drmaryb,

I think the article did say Josh to play some SF, and Marvin to the bench. But that was the writer’s opinion. Drew did not say that.

All Drew said was that Al would get more minutes at PF.

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O’brien no not really because the hawks were lousy on perimeter defense. So in my opinion Shaq would probably had made a slight difference in the post but the hawks would have had the same results.Well the hawks may have won game 4 and thats probably it.

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drmaryb

No malice intended. I’m no Fox watcher either. However, I think this is less about Fox Network and more about sensationalizing rumors. It could have been Fox, ESPN etc.
Though this maybe a bogus opinionated story produced by a writer, the primary mission is accomplished. That is to highlight and advance the perception that the Hawks organization is clueless and not yet ready for prime time.

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Grandad and Big Ray – my Josh Smith to Karl Malone comparison is for the future – I said in his 30’s, when he fills out (he’s only 24 now) his game will look more like Malone than the High-Wire act we know now – it’s called “age”!

I’m still not sure why you make a natural 4 into a 3 – but if Josh can hit the jumper, then I’m game.

Earlier today I said Marvin’s best position is coming off the bench at either Forward spot.

Yesterday, I said ZaZa could start for many NBA teams, and was highly regarded in NBA circles.

If rotoworld is correct – looks like I made some pretty good assessmnets – we will see how it pans out.

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Rondo

I will raise my hand and answer a few questions at the Kingdom Hall.
You wild, bruh!

-smiles-

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To who ever asked about my comment about obtaining Kwame – it was meant to be just quixotical musings on a Georgia fellow and some similarities to the Hawks – no inside info or anything like that.

Kinda like when you see a guy and girl that are bad for each other, but they keep stumbling throu circumstance and life closer and closer -and you just kinda know what’s going to happen. May never however…

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Shaq not coming here..that’s far. There are other possible centers out there that can give you a good 12 to 15 mins such as an Earl Barron. He’s young and is 7ft or someone from the D League. I would like an idea of trading Marvin, ZaZa and a pick for Iguodala or can make the money work to add the 3pt shooting of Kapano as well. Both teams and players benefit from this. 76ers get a younger SF to play with Evan Turner and a scrappy C while Marvin gets out of the shadow of the non-drafting of CP3. Hawks get more an athletic and good defensive SF who can create his own shot when defenses key on Joe or Jamal.

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Rondo

Be careful now, I’m Mary Ellen’s spiritual advisor.
Now I’ve got homework.

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SteveW

“Grandad and Big Ray – my Josh Smith to Karl Malone comparison is for the future – I said in his 30’s, when he fills out (he’s only 24 now) his game will look more like Malone than the High-Wire act we know now it’s called “age”!”

“I’m still not sure why you make a natural 4 into a 3 – but if Josh can hit the jumper, then I’m game.”

SteveW – Why are we discussing Josh @ 30?
Your original statement was Josh did not possess
the skill set to play the [3].

Why do you keep alluding to the fact that Josh
is a natural [4].
Woodson made him a [4].
Is that your only basis for argument.
So far, all you have said is “jump shot”.

I’ve posed several other skills & ways Josh
can & will be used in “motion offense”
regardless of playing [3] or [4].

You would be well served to gain an understanding
of “motion offense”.
Please believe me when I say that I did not mean
that to sound condescending.
But one cannot stereotype players in “motion”.

Mary Ellen said it best when she quoted me:
“Play your best Basketball Players to your system”
In other words
A basketball player is a basketball player. [regardless]

Anything else, other than “jump shot”?

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Rev in Tampa

Go to Blu-Ray blog and you will find Astro Joe camped out over rhere.
They call themselves the intellectuals over there, Grown Folks Blog

No offense to MC, but no T.S. He He.
Anyway, I thought yall had talked. Hey, thanks for the 5th-Dimmensions answer.

I gotta go get ready for my service meeting this morning.

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najeh-Please forgive me for calling you a stat nerd. Get some tougher skin bruh T.S. in the past have called you worser things than that.

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Horford said to AP that the new coach L.D. told him he was playing more time as PF,here in Dominican Republic((Puerto Plata) where he is in his Basketball Camp for Kids.I just read it in the dominican press.
He also said that PF is the position he has played all his life and that he is sure that going back to it will make him a better player.
About the Miami Heat he said that is just another team they will play 4 games,2 in Atlanta and 2 in Miami(Business as usual)and that in order to advance in the Playoffs they have to do a better job than last year in playing as a team.
That is the source of Fox Sports!!!!

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Big Ump

Sorry, read my last text to Rev in Tampa .. That was intended for you
re: 5th Dimmension.

Sorry, Rev in Tampa. What? You don’t know who the 5th Dimmensions are?
OMG! That was the group Marilyn MaCoo & Billy Davis JR sang with.

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The only thing Shaq could teach AHorford and JSmith about holding their ground in the post would be how they need to weigh close to 400lbs. If other teams add players to their roster, fans automatically feel they’ve improved, but not the Hawks. If other teams add a new HC, along with new OFF/DEF schemes and philosophy, and fans automatically feel that team has improved, but not the Hawks.

If the Hawks bring back their 10 core players from last yrs team that increased its annual win total and its Eastern Conference seeding over the previous yr, rather than signing a bunch of FA’s, they’re not considered as good as other teams that return their core players. Over the last 3yrs, these same core of Hawk players have finished ahead of every team fans and so called experts have rated higher.

The Hawks have added 2 new players, JPowell, JoCrawford, a new HC, a DEF assistant, a new OFF and DEF, and will possibly add Sy, and our fans still can’t see any way this team has improved. Shaq has been a starter on the last 2 teams he’s played for, and he did improve a single one, nor did either come close to winning a title. In fact, last 2 teams he played on ended up worse than they were the yr before, and both sent him packing after one season. Yet, we have Hawk fans that continue to insist that as a backup, and playing fewer mins, he could have taken us over the top.

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I’m boycotting ASG, these guys are cheaper than a homeless man on North Avenue. I’ve already cancelled my season tickets and don’t plan on attending any games this season. As long as ASG and JJ run this team I will not spend a penny on the shatty product.

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So right now, according to what we have, we should still bench Marvin Williams. I would start Zaza and shift Al to PF and J Smith to SF. I hope that Smith developed some more creativity on the offense in order for him to be able to play SF, though.

Then I would have Marvin come off the bench and go to our regular offense in order to run and gun.

In other words, the front office didn’t help the Hawks this year at all. Now, it’s up to coaching. And if I was the coach, I would elevate a true center. Right now, we only have Zaza and Al. I would give Al more minutes at PF and bring Marvin off the bench. Marvin will be more of an asset getting quality minutes off the bench.

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bigdave

1st of all LD will not be moving Al further from the rim.
Al became very effective from mid-range last year.

Sautee

“I’ll find this story in doubt until I’ve heard the resolution of that obvious conflict.”

Agreed, however, – MC:
“as far as i can tell, this is the same thing i wrote last week: L.D. plans on using a “big” rotation at times with Al at the 4 and he’s not opposed to playing Al and Zaza together.”

Sautee – Blog Gobbler got one of my previous posts.
Look for a revision concering what I think LD
has up his sleeve. Guesswork!

For all:
LD wants to get Bigger (in a hurry).
With movement, please, please, please, don’t get hung up
on pos numbers. They are all gonna be moving parts.
At the risk of being redumbdant & reppettittive,
all players will:
(x) cut
(x) screen
(x) slip screens
(x) post [even Joe / hooray]
(x) come off screens
(x) flash
(x) catch & shoot
(x) Face up [yes even Zaza]
(x) pass
(x) there will be ball movement
(x) there will be *ball reversal
* many times the [5] man reverses the ball from the top.
(x) therefore resulting in Player Movement!

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