Atlanta Hawks: No Shaq . . . now what?

Why won’t my comments post?

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Hey! What’s happening to my posts?????

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NORTHCYDE-While I appreciate the effort, you’ve done little more than reflect your GLASS HALF EMPTY approach.

1-You seem to think that being LDrew being a rookie HC will automatically cause him to fail. Couldn’t you say the same about Bulls ROOKIE HC TThibodeau? How many rookie HC’s have intimate knowledge of the teams top 10 returning players, as well as their stengths and weaknesses? How many have worked with most of their assistants, players and organization for 6yrs? In you GLASS HALF EMPTY mind, you see this as a negative.
2-Tell me, didn’t most of the Eastern teams upgrade their rosters last yr, and didn’t the Hawks still manage to improve in wins and seeding?
3-It’s very possible that Teague might have difficulty running an NBA team, at least in the beginning. But isn’t it just as possible he could end up doing for the Hawks what ROOKIE PG’S DCollison and BJennings did for the Hornets and Bucks respectively? It should be obvious that LDrew doesn’t share your GLASS HALF EMPTY opinion of him.
4-Bibby may go into a greater decline, and then again, he might not. How can you make that a major concern, considering we no longer have a HC stupid enough to rely on him when he’s not producing?
5-Last yr Marvin’s production was his worst as a starter. Anyone without a bias, and with a clue, knows his production deceased as Woodson chose to exclude Marvin and rely more on players with more OFF talent, like FMurray and JaCrawford.
6-Mo Evans is a bench player who received limited mins and opportunities, and he complained. It’s sad that you’d think his lack of production last yr would adversely affect the teams ability to win this yr.
7-Zaza’s mins went down last yr, and he played the same way he’s always played for the Hawks. Using the way he plays as an excuse to employ your GLASS HALF EMPTY approach is really weak, even for you.
8-Wasn’t JCollins on the team last yr? And how do you know what JPowell will be capable of doing? Remember, there were a lot of NEGATIVE MINDED GLASS HALF EMPTY THINKING fans just like you who spent the entire off season criticizing the acquisition of JaCrawford and the release of Flip Murray.
9-The Hawks might not have a dominant post scorer, but they have 3(JJ, Smoove and Horford)who manage to do a good job. Last yr, both Horford and Smoove improved their inside scoring ability enough for one to become an All Star, and the other to receive All Star consideration. Why is it so hard for you to expect theit continuef improvement?
10-If you could somehow focus on what’s actually being said and done, instead of on your ingrained fears and apprehensions, you’d know by now the days of the Hawks being primarily an ISO and jump shooting team are over. Running, with constant ball and player movement, and attacking the basket is the new order of the day.
11-Why does JJ have to raise his level of play? If Woodson was still our HC, that would be a fair statement, but he’s gone. All JJ has to do to raise his level of play is become more efficient with his shots and get to the FT line more. LDrew’s motion OFF, which is focused on attacking the basket, should allow him to do both.

I have no doubt you can come up with more excuses for your GLASS HALF EMPTY approach. But the truth is, what you call REASONS, I call EXCUSES. Anyone who downplays the regular season is a fool. Playoff seeding, home court advantage, and making the playoffs are all determined by what it does during the regular season.

If a HC continues using the same approach, against the same teams, and gets the same negative results, what else can should he expect besides GETTING REPLACED?

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Najeh,

Although I like JC2’s talent, I would have been fine with drafting Damian James, a backup SF who was a big rebounder in college.

For those thinking about JC2 getting PT at PG, just because he played some PG in college does not mean it would be an easy transition for him in the NBA.

He would have to run the offense, and know when to pass, and when to shoot, along with defending other PGs. And his defense is the weakest part of his game right now.

So I dont think JC2 will get much PT except in blowouts our injuries.

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Ken – facts are facts – not half empty, or half full

Fact – Sund pocketed 3m and to this point refuse to use it – it frustrates fans. Maybe they’ll use it later

Fact – Bucks have Bogut back, Larry Sanders, Drew Gooden, Corey Magette, and maybe Micheal Redd added to a team that took us to 7 games – while we swap – JoCrawford for Mario West; Josh Powell for Joe Smith; Larry Drew for Mike Woodson – and wait with breathless anticipation on Brian Skinner or Elson – who are both old and terrible – or hopefully a Sund trade. We have a right to look at the current facts and be frustrated.

But who knows – Sund may surprise us – and look up these blogs – I’ve been a big defender of Sund

P.S. And the Bulls add Boozer, Korver, Brewer

Celts add the 2 O’Neals from a team that was 4 pt.s away from a World Championship

Heat add -well, you know…

Let’s just be realistic
‘

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Wish I could share the article making fun of the Hawks looking at Elson and Skinner – the blog won’t let me…

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KenS-I never gave the Bulls or Bucks higher rankings than the Hawks-noticed how I mentioned they would probably be 4th…again!
They are satisfied with that level. Are you?
Sund is already on record saying that he wasn’t interested in competing for franchise players or any major trades.
Since you speak of Teague, didn’t those other 2 have very good success in the SL even before their 1st training camp? I wouldn’t put all the blame on Woody….I haven’t seen much of Acie Law lately have we? And Law was what, the 3rd or 4th PG prospect? Teague was around 9, and Collison is outdoing him already.
Me getting on LD is simple; he hasn’t had any HC consideration anywhere. You pick the Tibs argument; I perfer someone who has been there before and outside of AveryJ, I wouldn’t have considered any of the final candidates we lined up…but what do I know? Experience doesn’t mean much in this league.
What you’re doing Ken is comparing the Hawks to the Bulls/Bucks, but start comparing them to Orlando, who has the coach I would have chosen once Riley let him go. Me, I wouldn’t have Spolestra either.
I am looking to improve upon a 53 win season, not duplicate the disastrous results in the past. And if you don’t consider last year disastrous, how did you feel once Orlando mopped us all over the 2 courts we played on during the playoffs.
The Hawks are bringing less ammunition to the fight, about $20M less. That doesn’t guarantee you success, but it sure shows the fan base, the ones who support your good/bad decisions that the interest is to be the team to beat, not the team to be able to compete.

Ray, When will the organization realize that we need a big man and a coach that the players will buy into. We need to win a title in the ATL and we need to win it now!!!

We still haven’t made the players accountable at any level. The only ones held accountable, Morris and West are no longer here. How’s that for the bonuses that Smoove and Marvelous received and the above inflation pay to E#2. Some moves that make you shake your head in disgust.

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Ken S has been firing on all cylinders recently. It’s good to see that there’s at least one other fellow optimist in the house…

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KevinM LD didn’t think Sy was a big man. It was MC who made that mistake. He even corrected it and said it was his bad…. How can you compare Collison to Teague? One started and played a lot of minutes and one received inconsistent minutes all year. Collison actually looked terrible at first. When he received consistent minutes he produced. Hmmm what do you know, a guy plays better when he received consistent minutes.

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I also think the one thing people are forgetting when it comes to the Bucks is that they lost Ridnour. Last season when BJ was out there looking wild on the court with the turnovers and bad shots, Skiles would put in Ridnour who would calm things down on the court and shoot a nice percentage. I don’t know who their backup is this year but they will be missing Ridnour.

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Why fear the deer? They have only one player that can penetrate Jennings who the hawks are going to shut down next season.And they have one player that can create his own shot some what in Salmons. Bogut and Redd don’t scare you on defense and the only way they will beat a team in the playoffs next season is if they out score them.

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The season hasn’t stated yet and moves can still be made. Fanatics stop wasting your time bashing your GM.

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*ding*

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hawkfan335

I don’t mean to be disrespecful;
but that trade scenario is…..goofy…!

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404 – I didn’t say the Bucks were better than the Hawks in the above post – I just mentioned the moves they have been making.

Nire – Fact – Sund pocketed 3m and to this point refuse to use it – My Quote

Gee, that’s funny. I guess I must have dreamt that the Hawks just signed some guy who wears #2 to a $124M contract. Your Quote

You know better than this. Sund according to MC indicated he was using the 3m to get vet bigs – MC confirmed this when he got back. You have to have 13 players, so this was implied, and common sense dictates that this was 3m over and above the vet minimum contracts.

The fact stands – Sund has not used the 3m to this point. Sund is not even an owner, I know he didn’t take the money personally. .

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cp, Teague will be and should be compared to Collison all day every day.
You’re telling me Bibby played so well that Teague had no way to get minutes? I disagree, Woody didn’t seen Teague taking them any further than Bibby, so he chose the vet.
Blame Woody, but Teague didn’t exactly play lights out when he got minutes did he? He still has some work to do and what else was he doing 24X7 while on the roster last year? All he has to worry about is basketball. You’re not giving Collison any credit for what he achieved in a short time.
I didn’t see Teague at all star weekend. Perhaps he can compete for the sophomore roster this time around.
And I did think Sy was an unknown to LD, so my bad if that wasn’t the case. I still don’t get the pick, but 5-8 years down the road, maybe I will.

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WHAT ABOUT ME???????

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Sautee

I know I’m in the minority, but I like Zaza.
12 & 8 1st two years as a Hawk;
anxious to see if he re-emerges under LD.
[after 4 yrs in doghouse]

As for the trade scenario;
I figured Cleveland may need a little Xtra motivation,
plus, DG = b.u. / pt.g. & I’ve always liked him.
His dad’s a coach + he can really shoot.
Somethin’ about those coaches kids.

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Teague was the 7th PG drafted in 2009 for good reason – high upside, but a few years to reach it – kinda like Rondo.

Before that draft, there was a chart saying that Teague was that years Rondo. Then Steve Lavin of ESPN at that time, said he felt that in 5 years Teague may be the best PG of the PG heavy ‘09 draft.

Great, great potential for Teague – didn’t look good in Summer League however. Not stats, but how he played. it could have been the inferior talent he was surrounded by.

And for those doing the “minutes” thing – Jamal will play 29,30 minutes per night if he’s healthy, regardless of how you break it down. Most of you guys have been giving him 18-22 mpg. Not going to happen – he’s too valuable.

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Pachulia – a starter on many NBA teams. He’s not better than Horford, but a good big off the bench. Now if we can just find one more.

If we get Boone – he may take some minutes from Powell. We have the cash to sign Boone and Kwame BTW.

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I never said Teague won’t be improved and he may very well make us a better team. I am saying that Collison was not considered as valuable by us as Teague whether Woody played him or not.
Perhaps getting away from Woody will help him, and I would like to see what he can do. It doesn’t mean that LD will be patient enough to leave him out there to make mistakes.
Woody was on the last year of a contract. He was there to win every game and he was comfortable with the core only.
I will sit back and see if Teague has what it takes when they hand him the keys.
My knock isn’t with Teague; he might make everyone better, but you can’t knock Collison’s success no matter what a coach does or doesn’t do.
I blamed Woody for Acie’s development as well, but where is Acie today?
Behind both OJ and MC in Memphis still trying to find his niche.

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KevinM I like Collison but i don’t recall seeing him at all star weekend either……..How can you compare a guy who started and was getting major minutes to a guy who was getting a inconsistent 10mpg? That makes no sense………Woodson said in a interview a few weeks back that the reason he didn’t play Teague was because he was coaching for a contract. If you’re a coach who is coaching for a contract what would you do? Play the vets or play the rookie? He has always been a coach who preferred vets over rookies and lets be honest no matter how terrible a guy was playing Woodson would not make changes…..Marvin and Bibby stunk most of the year and Woodson refused to try something else. As many have said on here, there is no way Teague could have been any worse than what Bibby was giving us……..Teague will be fine.

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I SAY NO 1 GOES TO ANY OF THE GAMES NEXT YEAR!!! MAYBE THAT WILL TEACH ASG A LESSON!!!

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@ Mr. Strickland

1) I’ve never said that Drew would fail. I’m on record saying that we’ll win 47 – 52 games. But I don’t think many people believe that a 1st year coach is going to improve this team over what we did last year. Bring Avery or Byron in here, and that perception changes, seeing that they’ve coached teams to the NBA Finals.

As for Thibedeau and Chicago, I’d say the same thing about him, if the Bulls brought back the same team from last year. But they didn”t. They added a star low post player, a spot up shooter, a perimeter defender, and a post defender. Chicago did it right. They changed coaches, plus turned over the personnel. They even traded away a fringe “core player” ( Hinrich ).

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2) I guess you forget that we upgraded too last year. Jamal Crawford. Remember? The 6th man of the year, and a player that we’ve long needed to be a 2nd scorer alongside JJ. It would’ve been nice to see this organization take that approach again, and added the Hall of Famer.

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3) The problem I see with Teague, is that Teague didn’t even run the Wake Forest team. Teague was a scoring PG at Wake. He didn’t even average 4 assists per game. He wasn’t known for his defense either. But you’re under the impression that he will do both things better than Bibby, thus, making us a better team.

The key to Jeff’s success is going to be getting to the rim to score, and making the 15 – 18 foot jumper. What other rookie PGs did does not matter. This is all about what Teague can do. People better not be surprised though, if Bibby not only gets the starting job, but that he’s also more efficient than Teague.

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4) Bibby going into further decline is a MAJOR CONCERN Ken. Of Teague isn’t ready to be efficient in a greater role at PG, and Bibby’s decline worsens, then who will play the point? I’ll tell you who . . . Jamal Crawford.

The last thing we need, is for Jamal to have to play 30+ minutes a night at the point, due to Bibby being useless and Teague not being ready. If that happens, that even puts pressure on fringe players like Mo and JC2 to perform when playing the 2.

Wanna see an interesting stat? Go to 82games.com and click on the Hawks link. On the very 1st page, you’ll see everyone on our roster listed. Look in the +/- column. While Horford had the highest on court +/- number, guess who was 2nd?

Mike Bibby

And he was also 2nd on the team in +/- differential, behind Horford. Bibby is an important piece to the Hawks puzzle. But if he keeps falling off, and sees his PT reduced, then Teague MUST step up.

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5) I tell ya. Marvin has to be the most criticized and most coddled athlete in Atlanta sports history.

Marvin missing wide open 21 footers when he DID get the ball passed to him IS his fault. Marvin staying in the corner even when a shot goes up IS his fault. Marvin not being a more consistent rebounder IS his fault. Marvin not being more aggressive, even when the former coach literaly begged him to be, IS his fault. Marvin letting people come in here and take playing time away from him IS his fault.

And I’m not a Marvin basher. But I’m not blind either. When you look up the word “average” in the dictionary, you’ll see a pic of Marvin. And I don’t mean that as a diss . . it’s simply the truth.

There is no “I want to be a star” type passion that you see in Marvin, unlike Horford and Smoove. He’s perfectly content with being our version of Tyrone Corbin, instead of wanting to be Dominique.

So blame the former coach for Marvin not reaching his potential, just like you blame the former coach for every other bad thing concerning the Hawks. Just understand that sometimes . . . it’s on the player.

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Look, we could go on and on about this issue, and it wouldn’t accomplish anything worth while. NORTHCYDE, I know I came down hard on you, and I want you to know it wasn’t anything personal. I was simply coming down on your pessimistic approach to the Hawks. Even when I’ve come down of Woodson, it’s not about him as a person, but as a HC, because I don’t know him as a person. I’d probably like him as a person.

While there are certainly questions that must be answered about the Hawks, the same can be said for every Eastern Conference team that’s added players and are suppose to be so much improved. I just think that correcting and/or eliminating the internal problems that Hawk players had to overcome to accomplish what they accomplish last yr is a major improvement.

How can having your players able to focus on overcoming the opposition, without having to overcome the incompetence, stubbornness, bias and inflexibility of their own HC, not be considered a major improvement? Everyone seems to be so focused on what they think the ASG and Sund hasn’t or want do, they forget they have until the trade to get it done.

No team has ever won a single gm, conference seed, or NBA title in the off season. Didn’t we acquire MBibby at the trade deadline and ended up making the playoffs as a result? Last yr, didn’t Cleveland and Dallas do the same thing? The financial resources we have now will double in value by the trade deadline, and we’ll have a better idea of what we have and what we need.

I don’t see a single Eastern Conference team that has improved enough to unseat the Hawks as the 3rd seed. And depending how long it takes for LDrews OFF/DEF systems to become 2nd nature to our players, and the success or failures of Miami, we have the talent and ability to give Orlando, Boston and Miami a run for the top seed.

And stop saying our bench isn’t deep or talented enough for us to win. The Lakers have won consecutive NBA titles, and you can’t say their bench is anything to write home about. They refused to resign JFarmar because they didn’t think he was good enough to start. We’ve already had Hawk fans complain about us signing former Laker JPowell, and I was jumped on for suggesting we sign FA Laker DJ MBenga. Aside from LOdom and SBrown, that leaves , LWalton, AMorrison and SVujacic to round out their bench. Is there anyone who believes that is a bench to be feared?

Orlando’s bench might be the NBA’s deepest and most talented, especially with front line players, and they certainly have the NBA’s more dominant post player. Yet, they still can’t win an NBA championship. After going to the NBA finals in 08, they added LPowe and former All Star VCarter. The immediate reaction from a large number of Hawk fans was to concede the NBA title to them. HOW DID THAT TURN OUT? A lot of fans are doing the same for Miami.

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