Atlanta Hawks: No Shaq . . . now what?
With Shaq off to Boston here’s a quick epilogue as it relates to the Hawks:
I’ve been told that Atlanta wouldn’t budge on giving Shaq a starting nod over Al, who is after all still only 24-years old and an All-Star. Shaq believes he will get the starting nod over Jermaine O’Neal in Boston as Kendrick Perkins rehabs from his knee injury.
Atlanta also wasn’t willing to pay Shaq more than the minimum and that was a sticking point for him. He didn’t want to sign for the minimum when the Hawks had their bi-annual and mid-level exceptions available because of the perception that would create–as in the Hawks could have paid him more but didn’t. That’s not the case with Boston, which had neither of those exceptions and so could only give him the minimum.
The big guy still has his pride.
The Hawks thought Shaq could help them and would be a good risk at the minimum salary despite his history of negatively effecting locker rooms and tending not to respect coaches who aren’t Phil Jackson or Pat Riley. It could have been a potential headache for L.D., who already has a lot to deal with in his first gig as a head coach.
So that’s that. . . .
The Hawks still are in the market for a center (I’ve still heard nothing to indicate they are seeking a wing) and they have veterans Francisco Elson, Brian Skinner and Josh Boone on their radar. Not so much Kwame Brown, who is thought to still be seeking a deal for more than the vet minimum.
Beyond those options, I also could see the Hawks waiting to see if any centers shake free as teams buy out vets when training camps open. They also might consider bringing some young center prospects to camp and give them a month to earn the 13th roster spot. There is some interest in Garrett Siler but he’s got a lot to prove after a bad showing at Summer League.
There’s still about two months until camp opens so there’s still time for moves to be made. But that 13th roster spot will remain open for now.
– Hawks assistant GM Dave Pendergraft has emerged as an early candidate to become Denver’s top basketball executive. Pendergraft also is one of several candidates for Phoenix’s GM job.
The Nuggets let go of VP of basketball ops Mark Warkentein earlier this week.
MC
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613 comments Add your comment
northcyde
August 6th, 2010
1:51 am
niremetal
August 5th, 2010
5:25 pm
The money thing makes zero sense to me, since Shaq would have brought in way more money in ticket sales and merchandise than he would have cost in salary. So if that was part of ASG’s reasoning, that’s not cheap, it’s just plain stupid.
****************************
Told you.
You sign that guy for 2 yrs – 11.5 mill ( the MLE ), and we get Shaq easily.
Shoot . . with this report, we may have secured him for 2 yrs – 8 million.
The ASG didn’t want that dude. They were simply playing around, trying not to pay Shaq what he is worth, nor wanting to go into the Luxury Tax zone.
They did with Shaq exactly what they did with Avery Johnson. They weren’t serious about either dude. They were simply putting on a show.
Get these mo-fos outta here.
northcyde
August 6th, 2010
1:57 am
This organization isn’t going to do ish at the trade deadline either.
Because Crawford’s expiring contract is the most valuable piece that they possess. They’re going to let his money drop straight off the books, so that hey can re-sign Al Horford ( after they leave him hanging and let some idiot team give him an offer sheet that they can match ).
This ownership group gets TOTAL BLAME if things don’t go our way next season. None of you better not dare blame Drew, or anybody else.
LOL . . they didn’t even offer Shaq the damn bi-annual exception, trying to get him as cheap as possible. That’s a damn shame. A gat damn shame.
Sell the team to Oprah . . Tyler Perry . . T.I. and Grand Hustle . . anybody.
SteveW
August 6th, 2010
2:14 am
Northcyde – Oprah would probably be a good owner – I agree
How about T D Jakes and Usher – maybe Deion in on the ownership group as well. I think at least those folks might want to win
KevinM
August 6th, 2010
2:21 am
The Big 3, JJ, Al and Smoove for yet another run for a top 4 slot.
No matter what we did this offseason, our Top 3 wasn’t going to improve.
The parts around them are what they are; servicable and about as exciting as Cleveland will be this year.
The only piece missing to our core: Mario West. Then we can lay claim to being the team with the least changes from last season. Makes you want to go buy tickets to know what we already know is going to happen.
The city of Atlanta needs football and baseball to forget about basketball and hockey.
SteveW
August 6th, 2010
2:22 am
D J Mbenga – Adam Morrison for a swing man – now we would have 25% of the defending world champs team in the ATL.
drmaryb (*_*)
August 6th, 2010
2:56 am
Box Office
Would you pay $55 to go see “Scarface” starring Al Pachino,
When you have already seen it 55 times?
Then, the Hawks are a must see!
truhawksfan
August 6th, 2010
3:05 am
These are th worst fans ever OMG!!!!! The ASG is not the only people to blame for not bringing in big name players the fans are to blame to cause they don’t have faith that the home team can win why would a player want to play for the Hawks.These fans believe that Shaq was the missing piece well that was not the case cause all he would have done was slow the team down and this is a young atheletic team that can control a game through tempo and Shaq would not have have fit with that scheme. These fans have also predicted that hawks will not be in the top 5 seed in the east and according to them they will not even come close to 53 wins this year or get to the playoffs.I hope they come back with a vengence and prove all the doubters wrong.LET’S GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
truthspitter
August 6th, 2010
3:09 am
I agree, sell the team to T.I./Grand Hustle,Usher, Tyler Perry, and some well established business man for the sake of having one. Sund is even killing the entertainment value of the team. Josh Smith is still worth the price of admission on most nights but he needs a high rising buddy. Andris Biedrins I’m telling you people
truthspitter
August 6th, 2010
3:11 am
truhawksfan: You lie! I don’t believe Shaq was the answer and many here don’t believe that. On the other hand, it is not cool to sit around getting your head stomped in without even fighting back and that’s whats happening off the court. By the way, off the court is where it starts
Rev in Tampa
August 6th, 2010
3:29 am
truthspitter, get some rest or stay off the coffee. The Hawks are not getting their head stomped in. In 2005 they were getting their heads stomped in. They are and will be a 50+ win team. They are one of the most athletic teams in the league with a high entertainment value. The Hawks haven’t played all of their offseason cards. Patience is the word.
2 FOR JOHN DREW
August 6th, 2010
3:49 am
Kgbsfinst
I got this from a reliable source ….. & I don’t know why they’re keeping it so quiet.
Some of the players on Cleveland’s team were talkin’ about LeBron, but he wasn’t in thye dressing room @ the time,but when he came in … the room got quiet,he asked one of his close friends ” what’s up ?” nobody said anything,LeBron got angry told everybody they need to check themselves,some one said he needs to check his mama ! (Delonte West alledgedly had an affair w/
LeBron’s mom which LeBron knew about, but was trying to keep hush-hush) And a couple of players mentioned he was turning into ” me guy ” Some pushing & shoving ensued & the coaches
came in & broke it up.After that happened LeBron never played well again or seemed interested hardly @ all during the rest of the Boston series.
Rev in Tampa
August 6th, 2010
3:53 am
2 FOR JOHN DREW , doesn’t pass the smell test.
2 FOR JOHN DREW
August 6th, 2010
3:59 am
You got a cold ….. did you see that series!!!!!
ken
August 6th, 2010
5:18 am
how about bibby for jeff foster our dead weight for theres they want a vet point guard and we needa vet big
drmaryb (*_*)
August 6th, 2010
7:29 am
truhawksfan
You are not the only true hawks fan. We all are, or we wouldn’t be on here blogging about us. You have many points of views on here discussing their opinions and – They are All valid.
We don’t all agree, but we respect each other and sometimes the emotion of a fan takes over, when we see players flying off the shelf at affordable prices.
Our main beef is that we don’t see the owners performing their off court duties.
Right now and most days the owners are not even in town working, there off
Para-sailing or yachting or what ever it is that people with money do.
They don’t seem to be involved in any trade talks or making any roster moves to
Improve the team or fill it’s GLARING holes.
If they were not going to participate in the FA and wait until the
mid-season trade deadline? Then, they should at least MC know,
so that he can tell us to stop the dreaming and go back to sleep.
Instead we get fed that this Coach or Player is being courted, when that is not
true and we get Nothing. That’s where the frustration comes from,
therefor the comments you see.
Me personally, I take it all in stride and ALL my comments are buried
in humor and comedy. That’s what I bring to the discussion!
Never anger. I only get peeved when a blogger jacks my I’d and say
deplorable things to others, or attack my character and not my opinions.
Like the games, this is only entertainment for me.
Definitely not the end of the World by any means.
victor
August 6th, 2010
7:34 am
Now that we are not getting Shaq as a member of this team the attention has turned to other centers. Everyone seems to be in agreement about Josh Boone being the best of what is left because he is a hard worker and loves to rebound. If this is the case I say why not sign him after all his name is Josh and we love guys named Josh. Josh Smith, Josh Childress, Josh Powell and Now Josh Boone. We also love guys whose name starts with a J. Jamaal Crawford, Jordan Crawford, Jeff Teague and Joe Smith. I say sign the guy already and change the name of the team to the Atlanta JAY HAWKS.
dukester
August 6th, 2010
7:34 am
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=28yrerr
This would work. While you at it ASG ask Joe Johnson to restructure his deal like the super friends did down in miami so that they could compete. Yea we want money to resign Al Horford and CP3. Do you think Joe would do it???
drmaryb (*_*)
August 6th, 2010
7:38 am
* …or we wouldn’t be on here blooging about IT. We have many
Points of views. …..
dap01
August 6th, 2010
7:46 am
The Hawks are cheap! The Hawks are dumb! Booooo. Boooo…..
drmaryb (*_*)
August 6th, 2010
7:48 am
victor
Funny Stuff! Jay Hawks – I like it … I like it.
dukester
Nobody in Miami took any discounts, they don’t pay state taxes. Trust me,
they still take home more than Joe. Besides, the owners are making
6 times what Joe is on his contract. They’re billionaires, so they should
pay their own employees – not Joe! We are the only team in the play-offs
last season who doesn’t pay any Luxury Taxes to field their team.
So the answer is …. Heck Naaw!
O'Brien
August 6th, 2010
7:49 am
Barring injuries, I think the only move the Hawks MIGHT make at the trade deadline is to use the TPE.
I think the only way they trade Mo is if they get another expiring contract in return. And I dont think they will trade Bibby, because he will be their backup PG.
They will not trade Jamal, unless Jordan is ready to take over and they are getting another expiring contract in return.
This offseason was the time to make a move. We still dont have quality frontcourt depth, a spot up shooter, and a superb wing defender (Marvin is good, but he is inconsistent).
I think Hawks will have 4th best record in the East, and advance to the second round (in the first round, they will beat the Central Division winner).
drmaryb (*_*)
August 6th, 2010
7:54 am
dap01
The owners are proving you right! He He.
I know patience is a virtue, but inaction is inexcusable.
Every team makes roster adjustments after each season. Especially the teams that are winning. Because, you can always win better!
Lakers
Boston
Dallas
Suns
Utah
Miami
Milwaukee
Orlando
Bulls
And it just don’t stop!
ntrigue
August 6th, 2010
8:00 am
I would rather have Josh Boone I think he’s a better fit with our team anyway. He blocks, rebounds, and can run the court. The 1 year he got true playing time he basically was avg a double double every night for NJ. I don’t understand why more teams aren’t pursueing him. He is kinda a Josh Smith type of athletic player he really would help with shot blocking on our 2nd unit and when matched with Josh and Al it would really be hard to get shots in the paint against us! MC your thought on why Josh Boone is so underrated?
ken
August 6th, 2010
8:14 am
Not even an aging superstar can discern when an organization is serious about winning and when they are not. That is the bottom line with superstars. It was never really about the money for Shaq because he has made and will continue to make money in a variety of ways. The Hawks did not impress Shaq enough to be the place to maybe end his career because they will be average at best. Even though the Hawks talk a good game, their actions or inactions prove that they are not serious about winning championships. Bottom line is they are who we thought they were!
Robert
August 6th, 2010
8:23 am
I agree with tyger.I’ll sign that petition.
Wolverine
August 6th, 2010
8:48 am
Hawks Fans relax….We have a good team. I agree we are not as sexy as Miami’s offseason; YES we are still better than Most teams in the East with the exception of Miami, Orlando and Boston. And I believe that Teague and JC2 will make huge impacts on our bench. I’m not oppose to trading Maurice Evans, with our trade exception for a big man, and maybe signing a Jarvis Hayes, Or Rodney Carney to supplement our bench, but all in all we will be a really good team in the East; provided that LD offense works.
Their were no realistic moves the Hawks could of made this offseason that would have made them a contender; and YES TO Those who dont know basketball SHaq would have slowed the HAWKS down. We cant add a player just to face one team in the playoffs….Shaq was added in cleveland to face Howard and they didnt even make it that far. IF LD keeps his promise by playing teague & JC2 alot we will be fine, and might just suprise some of you without faith….GO HAWKS…
dukester
August 6th, 2010
8:53 am
@drmaryb I hear you. But call it what you want too 3 max players decided not to ask for max contracts to play with other max contract players in hopes of winning. I dont care about the circumstances around the situation. They took less money to play with other great players. Im asking would Joe do the same thing if a deal was done like this. See below::
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=27r9xbz
Astro Joe
August 6th, 2010
8:57 am
MC, is Josh Boone a restricted or unrestricted free agent (I thought restricted)? IMO, the Hawks need a wide-body type, so based on that incredibly pedestrian list of names, I’d go with Skinner. If they choose a slender body type, then they are putting their eggs in Jason Collins staying well-conditioned and healthy as their lone wide body. That deoesn’t appear to be a smart/wise move.
Mike is back
August 6th, 2010
9:16 am
Rev in Tampa, first off…much respect for your stewardship of your parishioners…I’m not sure words can quantify the type of sacrifice and dedication it takes to serve in your position.
However, no one is talking about Boone offensive Prowers…we talking about someone that fills a need. I stated that in terms of scoring Zaza has the edge over Boone…but that’s about it. Boone crashes the boards and gets you offensive and defensive rebounds…not to mention the fact that Zaza seldom gets block shots.
We are talking about a MLE…someone you are going to get on the cheap…that’s why I would prefer Boone…you not going to get much…at lease in Boone…you going to get someone who can fill a need. How many times have you seen the Hawks play terrific defense for 23 seconds, and then they give up two or three offensive rebounds, and allow the opposing team to get an easy score.
That’s demoralizing, deflating, and frustrating…the next thing you see is the guys hanging their heads, and giving up. Zaza can be a monster sometimes…but when he playing with guys who like to bang…he’s Houdini. At leased Boone is not afraid to bang and mix it up.
KevinM
August 6th, 2010
9:24 am
Wolverine, way off base here…..unless you are sitting in on the meetings, you have no idea who has been offered to the Hawks or who the Hawks have offered. We have no clue who has been discussed in trades, other than the 30th ranked SF in the league.
This ownership group is going to ride this limited team who as of today has no 1/2 court offense. LD is supposed to come in here and make something fluid out of what stopped at E#2 with the clock winding down.
We have talent here, that’s obvious. But to bring this team back intact after that 2nd straight year of playoff blowout (the worst in NBA history…think about that for a minute…these guys quit!), then you are seeing something few of us are seeing.
- This team doesn’t match up with Orlando
- Playing Boston in the regular season (please someone acknowledge AGAIN that we swept them during the regular season!) and the playoffs are 2 different worlds.
The facts are facts and will play out this way. If the Hawks somehow get a HC advantage for Round 1, then that’s it. They then have to play a team who can beat this team up and we can blame someone for trying to get Joe to play 48 minutes and justifying their investment as a cheap one.
Dwight loves this lineup…….I bet he does! Makes him look like a MVP!
LeBron/DWade/Bosh will laugh at this lineup…they will have guys do the dirty work, and their talent takes over.
Someone, for the umpteenth time, tell me what this team has done to make themselves a better playoff team? Not a 53 win team, but a PLAYOFF team?
Anyone wanna bet we go back to steady Bibby when Teague struggles?
Anyone wanna lay claim to what Zaza produces in 15/min game?
Anyone wanna think what its going to look like when Smoove has a tizzy that things aren’t going his way and LD just stands there? You think he is going to yank him?
This is a young team, who got lucky and got a coach who won’t be tough on them…they got a coach who can’t stand his ground because he makes less than our hidden gem Collins. This team has gotten comfortable, doesn’t like to hear boos, and is not better than last year…A first year coach isn’t the answer for this team….A Scott Skiles is….someone who knows how to get the best out of these primas.
Sund’s ranking as a GM will continue to plummet while we watch Season 1 of the real Hawks of Atlanta. Trouble is, you might see visions of Woody standing there watching Jason Kidd punk him on the sidelines once again.
KevinM
August 6th, 2010
9:29 am
Wolverine or anyone,
Please provide a sceanario where you see JC2 getting minutes from a backcourt of Teague/Bibby and E#2/JC1? Where does he get more than 5 minutes?
I don’t see it…we aren’t going 11-12 deep on a regular basis. See the 12 I’m talking about?
E#2/Smoove/Marvin/Al/Bibby
Teague/Zaza/JC1/Mo/Powell
JC2/Collins/mystery player #13 (a minimum wager make or break for this season)
Play the young guys…I am fine with it. But reality and promises don’t go well together when you are out to win NBA games.
kwooden1
August 6th, 2010
9:31 am
nire
I 2nd!
I much prefer cheap over stupid. I hope MC’s information isn’t totally accurate.
Hawks have Brian Skinner on radar, no joke | Ben Maller
August 6th, 2010
9:45 am
[...] a center (I’ve still heard nothing to indicate they are seeking a wing) and they have veterans Francisco Elson, Brian Skinner and Josh Boone on their radar. Not so much Kwame Brown, who is thought to still be seeking a deal for more than [...]
O'Brien
August 6th, 2010
9:45 am
AJ,
I think NJ renounced Boone making him unrestricted. I like Boone because of his energy on the boards.
Steve W,
DJ Mbenga could be worth a look too. Ken Strickland suggested him long ago.
O'Brien
August 6th, 2010
9:48 am
KevinM,
Co-Sign. I cant see where JC2 is supposed to get minutes on this team. I posted my minute breakdown on one of the other blogs. Position, player, minutes.
PG – Bibby (22), Teague (22), Jamal (4)
SG – JJ (30), Jamal (18)
SF – Marvin (28), Mo (14) JJ (6).
I just dont see where JC2 is going to get PT (except for injuries or blowouts).
The Real JC
August 6th, 2010
10:03 am
@Kevin – I appreciate the frustration, but your argument hinges on LD being a bust before he coaches a single game.
Yes, it’s his first head coaching gig, but he’s a long-time assistant who has been ready for a shot for a while. Yes, he was picked up on the cheap, but any assistant trying to transition to a head coaching position would jump at the offer.
The Hawks have a lot of talent, as you said. And it will obviously take someone other than Woodson to bring it out in them. Obviously a more seasoned coach would be a better bet, but assuming that LD is going to be a bust is just as much of a crapshoot as me predicting he’ll win a title.
What we know: the Hawks players like LD, he has directly addressed problems like iso-Joe and Smoove’s jump shots, to which Joe and Josh reacted favorably and he has described a new motion-based offensive scheme. I don’t know if all of this will get implemented, but you don’t know that it won’t either.
Give the dude a chance. I’m sure he could end up being a bust, but Doc Rivers won COY his first season as head coach. Sure, it’ll feel satisfying to say “I told you so” if he’s a bust, but you’ll also feel like a pretty big boob if he turns out ok.
ryan
August 6th, 2010
10:07 am
Bulls and Bucks have improved far more than Hawks Jennings is already a superstar with the Bulls putting players around Rose also Magic are better the Wizards might better with John Wall i have the Hawks 3rd or 4th in the east and plus the Knicks are dangerous with Stoudimire .
JoJo the Godfather
August 6th, 2010
10:20 am
O’Brien / KevinM…the only way JC2 gets playing time would be if Bibby becomes the 3rd string PG at 8 minutes a game…Not sure that happens…But if JC1 gets the majority of his minutes at PG again, then JC2 could get 12-15 minutes a game at the 2.
(maybe drmaryb won’t blast me again for this)
PG – Teague (22), Jamal (18), Bibby (8)
SG – Johnson (30), Jordan (14), Jamal (4)
pd
August 6th, 2010
10:21 am
Courtney Sims, Boone, dj mbenga, and Earl Barron deserve a look. Forget siler he is too slow
Why didn’t Shaq sign with the Hawks?
August 6th, 2010
10:35 am
[...] Cunningham of the Atlanta Journal Constitution has some insight… I’ve been told that Atlanta wouldn’t budge on giving Shaq a starting nod over Al, who is [...]
The Real JC
August 6th, 2010
10:39 am
@Jojo – much more realistic than Kevin/O’Brien. The whole idea of making Teague the man at point was giving him primary pt and starting position and limiting Bibby’s minutes. It would be a mistake not to phase him out and make his primary role helping develop Teague this season.
Bottom line – if JC2 can stroke, he’ll get PT
Ken Strickland
August 6th, 2010
10:49 am
REV IN TAMPA-Do you see why I refer to some of our fans as GLASS HALF EMPTY thinking fans? It doesn’t matter what you say, what logic and/or facts you present, they will always embrace their fears, hangups and/or lack of understanding. It reminds you of former HC MWoodson’s approach, doesn’t it.
Some of our fans are so hung up on the belief we need to IMMEDIATELY sign another center that they’re suggesting we sign virtually anyone available at this point. While they don’t want the return of bench warmers RMorris and JCollins, they desperately want us to sign any one of the remaining underachieving FA bench warmers.
I like the idea of Sund playing it close to the vest and waiting until the trade deadline to make a move. At that point, due to prorated salaries, we can afford to pick up a much better quality backup center, and whatever else we need. It certainly worked well in 07, when we acquired PG MBibby, which certainly made us a playoff caliber team and started our current playoff run.
Since the 07 season, Eastern conference teams have been improving their rosters through trades, FA signings, and draft picks. The Hawks, on the other hand, have basically maintained their same core of players over those same 3yrs. And despite all of the GLASS HALF EMPTY thinking, positive projections for the improvement of other teams, and negative projections for the Hawks, we’ve managed to increase our annual win total and seeding in each of those 3yrs.
NEJAH-you say Teague’s summer league performance doesn’t make you feel better about him or our PG situation. Well, it’s obviously not a concern for new HC LDrew, since he hasn’t seen fit to bring in another PG to compete with him. He certainly hasn’t made any announcement or move that that would suggest that Teague’s summer league performance, or off season progress, has had any negative influence on his decision to make Teague a major factor at PG.
You chose to discount Teague’s summer league performance, because you said it was AGAINST a collection of players that won’t even make it in the NBA. Yet, you failed to consider he played on a hastily put together team that was filled WITH a collection of players in that same category. I can certainly see him doing a lot better when playing with 2 All Stars(AHorford/JJ), a potential All Star(JSmith), and teammates he’s worked with through 1 season, 2 training camps and2 preseasons.
In the end, I guess it’s all just a matter of perspective.
Astro Joe
August 6th, 2010
11:00 am
Najeh, how much better would last season’s Hawks team been if Drew were the coach? I’m trying to fairly project wins for this season vs. the improved conference. If you believe that Drew would have delivered 58 wins (5 more) last year and the competition in 10′11 will shave off maybe 6 more wins, that gets you to 52 for the coming season. If you say the competition will shave off 12 more wins (which seems like a lot to me), then you get to around your stated number of 45 wins. But again, losing 12 more games to in-conference foes seems like a lot… surely some of the teams will take a step back due to injury, bad chemistry or something (the Raptors and Cavs could be among the teams that may be much worse than last year). Basic math says that if several teams go up a few teams will go down. For every Bucks team on the rise, there is a team that will fall on it’s face (could the Pacers be a 25 win team this season?).
I.MUS WRITE
August 6th, 2010
11:11 am
Josh Boone and Rodney Carney ……………just sign them and call it a day. The money from the draft pick is probably going to help pay Joes salary. Lets move on,the big names dont want to play here -its amazing how a 53 win team becomes bottom feeders in FA. The way our ownership does bussiness I wouldnt come here either. JJ’s recruiting players huh? he’s more likely recruiting women to help him count that muney. Cant be mad at JJ though he didnt sign himself. I predict that our attendance at phillips will be worst than New orleans from Last year………..44-38
The Real JC
August 6th, 2010
11:18 am
@Ken – as Hawks fans, I think we have the right to be pessimistic. Individually, I am excited about this season and watching LD do his thing, but I understand our fans’ restlessness. If your team has a bad season and you give up or complain, you’re a bad fan.
But if your team has a history like the Hawks, and its best team in a decade gets clobbered in the first or second round of the playoffs (after an 8-year hiatus from the playoffs) and ownership presumably doesn’t make any significant moves to improve our competitiveness in the more onerous Eastern Conference, I don’t blame people for expecting the worst.
The worst part of it is that there is a very clear need – a true center – that has been ignored because of monetary issues. Everyone overpays for centers because they are the rarest players in the league – simple supply and demand – and the owners refuse to pay one cent over the blue book value of these guys. Hey Shaq, would you rather take the league minimum and go to Boston, who were in the Finals last year, have an amazing fan base and get a ton of national media coverage or Atlanta, who can’t sell out a game unless Kobe or LeBron is playing, has a ho-hum fanbase, and is only mentioned on ESPN on really slow news days.
The only attractive thing we can offer legit centers is $$$, and it’s really frustrating that the ownership isn’t willing to do it, while offering Joe the max. Shaq may not be worth the MLE to every team, but he is to the Hawks.
Wolverine
August 6th, 2010
11:52 am
@KevinM,
I agree the Hawks quit on Woodson in the playoffs..I will not sit here and bast woodson -He took the Hawks as far as he could with limited Offensive Coaching skills. The ASG took the cheap way out by not hiring a proven coach in Avery Johnson, inaddition to the major problems we heard from Al-Horford was in the locker room. The Hawks really dont have much leadership in the locker, Horford hopefully will become that vocal leader.
Aside from the obvious, many NBA coaches (hubert brown, Jeff Van Gundy, Avery Johnson etc.,) all commented during the playoffs that the Hawks really dont have a structured offense to beat the better teams in the Playoffs and lacked mental toughness. Can a Coach cure that? We shall see.
Hawks did put some fillers out there for Bierdrens from GS, but didnt really want to make changes to the core. I think we have a good core, we desperately need good PG play and more size in the paint. If Teague can take the starting role and actually run the point effectively then we will be just fine.
We will see alot of different lineups so I’m told where JJ will play the 3spot sometimes and JC2 can play the SG, and Jamal at the PG. The Hawks are very versatile from the PG to SF spot. ITs the Center position that worries me.
KevinM
August 6th, 2010
12:00 pm
Ken, in all honesty, I don’t see anyone who is going to help us at all at slot 13. Its been that way for a few years now while we twist and turn on the Joe Smith / Mario West negotiations. It must be tough for Sund to complete this roster and get the 13th biggest need on this team. Its got to be that the personalty part of the interview isn’t panning out for most of the available FAs. Match.com might be a better place for Sund to look for a 13th roster slot.
Ken, I have no problem with you choosing your prespective; it has nothing to do with being positive or negative towards this team. What the ASG / Sund / Ken has failed to show is that this team is improved over last season’s roster. You bring in JC2 and he is the 3rd line SG. He isn’t a PG. Jennings/Rose/Rondo even Mayo or Conley would spit him out the 1st quarter and have him hiding on the bench. I’m sure they chose JC2 because no one had a clue that E#2 would accept our Brinks offer. Now you have a player who too gets little time to prove himself.
What needs did we address this offseason? Did we resolve anything of significance? Frankly, I would have liked the flexibility of our cap money had we gone another direction instead of stagnation.
We flirt, we tease, we twist the fan’s hopes. None of that matters. I am willing to watch LD implement his gameplan. Its not like I have a choice.
I truly don’t know one blogger here who would have said LD was the best candidate for the job. I find it hard to imagine and had an inkling he was going to get an interview……never thought he would blow them away and tell them how much different he is than Woody. So here we have another longtime assistant who deserves his chance to formulate a plan:
- to give the reins to Teague…we always have 2 more years of Bibby, who by the way wasn’t brought here by the current resident genius. By the way, wasn’t Acie Law the guy who was going to come in here and move Bibby to team 2? A new coach and a new PG does not bode well for advancing past the 1st round of the playoffs.
If the Hawks make the playoffs with a 41-41 record, there will be those here who say what a great job the new coach did to implement his system. If the Hawks go 53-29, you will hear that we didn’t miss a beat and we sure looked good heading into the playoffs. We just lost focus and our guys were caught up trying to play their game again, reverting back and blaming Woody.
RealJC, LD is going to get his chance, and if he succeeds, it will a feather in the ASG cap. I know I’m not the basketball expert, but I’m not getting paid to be that either. My opinion is based on previous history where it shows that LD has never been considered a HC at any level at any time.
How does that equate to being qualified to take over a 53 win team and ‘attempt’ to get them to win a game in the 2nd round? How old were you when the Hawks last won a 2nd round playoff game? Here is your link to 1996 where we lost to the Bulls 4-1 in the 2nd round. http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ATL/1997.html
Here’s another blip: we won 4 2nd round playoff games in 3 series under the infamous one of the greatest head coaches ever, Lenny Wilkens. Historical facts have alot of bite!
The last serious run in the playoffs….yes, one year, 87-88. We are still reliving that as great moments in Hawks history.
I totally disagree with this selection, I disagreed with the guargatuan signing of one player to 25% of the salary cap(increasing higher going forward), I disagreed with not improving 3 roster slots in the starting lineup (PG/C/SF). I disagreed with the draft strategy to bring in a 3rd SG who will get less minutes than Flip Murray gets this season.
I disagree, I disagree, and my basketball knowledge is obvious, because I am missing something to think this is a better team than last year……both Al and Smoove say we need a center. Being smart about things now, our well-paid on the court leader says nothing about anything.
We have JC1 playing for a contract and making it tougher than Marvin or Bibby to get resigned.
Stand pat, and let everyone else maneuver for a playoff slot. We have one locked up apparently, and that is enough for this laughing stock of an ownership group who have made enough $$ in their life to have earned halfcourt seats.
Where are those guys now and why aren’t they communicating with the fans anymore? Is it because they are tired of hearing fans complain about the moves they make?
I’m ready for them to prove me wrong…I have been ready for a loooooooooooooong time. Being a Hawks fan allows you the opportunity to not expect much in the upcoming season.
KevinM
August 6th, 2010
12:07 pm
Good comments Wolverine….going into this season, who is going to be our defensive stoppers on the perimeter?
I agree, we have a backline of 2 PFs and little more than that for around 7M.
We have weaknesses so much in that no one of this team outside of our new acquistion, Powell, has even sniffed a critical/winnable playoff series.
I don’t like where this is headed…….Biedrins, like Bargnani or even Nowitski, aren’t defensive minded in the least. The Hawks’ need stoppers either in the frontcourt or the backcourt. We have pieces that just play the next play hoping for good things to happen. They don’t make it happen.
IMO, Marvin is supposed to be our defensive stopper. Anyone care to challenge that?
Like the Braves, if you keep letting the other teams’ come in here and embarrass you in the postseason, you’re going to see a lot of chairbacks and wonder why aren’t the fans supporting the product? Because for that kind of investment, you want to have the potential to win. This lineup shows no such potential.
Ken Strickland
August 6th, 2010
12:17 pm
RYAN-let’s say your assessment of the Bulls and Bucks improvement is correct. Can you please tell me how you can automatically ASS-U-ME their improvement will be enough to overcome any improvement we’ll see from this yrs Hawks, as well as the 12(Bulls)and 7(Bucks)gms the Hawks finished ahead of each team last yr?
The following are our regular season WON/LOSS records against last yrs top 7 Eastern Conference playoff teams:
1-CAVS 1-3
2-MAGIC 1-3
4-CELTICS 4-0
5-BUCKS 2-1
6-HEAT 1-3
7-BULLS 3-1
The following are our WON/LOSS records against teams that were either far worse than we were, and/or who lost some of the talent that was added to the teams that are considered so much improved.
1-76ERS 2-1
2-KNICKS 1-3
3-RAPTORS 1-1
4-BOBCATS 2-2
5-PISTONS 2-2
6-PACERS 3-0
7-SUNS 1-1
8-HORNETS 1-1
Since we lost 3 of 4gms to the Magic, Cavaliers and Heat, there’s not much more damage they can do to us this yr, no matter how much they’ve improved. Assuming these Eastern Conference teams improve enough to win an extra gm or 2 against us, wouldn’t it stand to reason they’d also win a gm or 2 against some of the other teams as well, which would cancel out some of our losses.
And wouldn’t it also stand to reason the Hawks could also make up some of those potential losses to those improved teams by winning an extra gm or 2 against lesser teams, like the Knicks(1-3), and the teams that were weakened by losing a key player(s), like the Suns(1-1), Cavaliers(1-3), Bobcats(2-2) and Raptors(1-1)?
I’m still waiting for someone to demonstrate any kind of logical justification for thinking the Hawks will finish lower than last yr. I’m also waiting for someone to present justification concerning how the alleged improvement of other teams will be enough to overcome the Hawks improvement, plus any advantage the Hawks have over them last yr.
cp
August 6th, 2010
12:17 pm
I thought they fixed the T/S problem. smh…. Imus I said that the other day, sign Boone and Carney and call it a day. We get a backup sf in Carney and a guy who can play pf/c in Boone. I guess that would be difficult for a bunch of guys who probably cant even decide where to go for lunch on most days.