Atlanta Hawks: No Shaq . . . now what?
With Shaq off to Boston here’s a quick epilogue as it relates to the Hawks:
I’ve been told that Atlanta wouldn’t budge on giving Shaq a starting nod over Al, who is after all still only 24-years old and an All-Star. Shaq believes he will get the starting nod over Jermaine O’Neal in Boston as Kendrick Perkins rehabs from his knee injury.
Atlanta also wasn’t willing to pay Shaq more than the minimum and that was a sticking point for him. He didn’t want to sign for the minimum when the Hawks had their bi-annual and mid-level exceptions available because of the perception that would create–as in the Hawks could have paid him more but didn’t. That’s not the case with Boston, which had neither of those exceptions and so could only give him the minimum.
The big guy still has his pride.
The Hawks thought Shaq could help them and would be a good risk at the minimum salary despite his history of negatively effecting locker rooms and tending not to respect coaches who aren’t Phil Jackson or Pat Riley. It could have been a potential headache for L.D., who already has a lot to deal with in his first gig as a head coach.
So that’s that. . . .
The Hawks still are in the market for a center (I’ve still heard nothing to indicate they are seeking a wing) and they have veterans Francisco Elson, Brian Skinner and Josh Boone on their radar. Not so much Kwame Brown, who is thought to still be seeking a deal for more than the vet minimum.
Beyond those options, I also could see the Hawks waiting to see if any centers shake free as teams buy out vets when training camps open. They also might consider bringing some young center prospects to camp and give them a month to earn the 13th roster spot. There is some interest in Garrett Siler but he’s got a lot to prove after a bad showing at Summer League.
There’s still about two months until camp opens so there’s still time for moves to be made. But that 13th roster spot will remain open for now.
– Hawks assistant GM Dave Pendergraft has emerged as an early candidate to become Denver’s top basketball executive. Pendergraft also is one of several candidates for Phoenix’s GM job.
The Nuggets let go of VP of basketball ops Mark Warkentein earlier this week.
MC
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613 comments Add your comment
O'Brien
August 5th, 2010
8:54 pm
nire,
Co-sign. Money should not be an issue for signing Shaq. because whatever his salary and luxury tax, he would make up for it in extra revenue.
We would have more national TV games (possibly against Miami, Orlando, Lakers), fans would have bought his jerseys, and the casual fan would be willing to come to the game.
How many casual fans want to come watch JJ? I think the ASG dropped the ball if it was about money.
Now if they say they were worried about Chemistry, I can understand that. but money? SMH…
Trainwreck
August 5th, 2010
9:02 pm
Really sad to see other teams in the East get better while we stand still/ get worse. I don’t see how we are supposed to legitimately hope to get pass the 2nd round of the playoffs
K-Dogg
August 5th, 2010
9:04 pm
Mani have been saying Shaq woudl bring in the same money you pay him!!!! Pull up the past colums and comments!! If them owners did not know that they need to get out of the buisness!!! I know they gave their coach the choice and he said he did not want him!!!!
Najeh Davenpoop
August 5th, 2010
9:06 pm
“I think you are a bit premature in making the 48 win pediction. It is another way of saying that the Hawks will take a step backward. ”
Actually, it’s my way of saying the rest of the conference has taken bigger steps forward than the Hawks have. I do think this Hawks team will be better simply by replacing Bibby with Teague in the starting lineup, and I think it’s likely that Drew ends up being an upgrade over Woody (although to what extent remains to be seen). But saying the Hawks will be better in an absolute sense and saying they will have a better record are two different things.
Out of all the teams in the conference, it’s safe to say only Toronto and Cleveland can be predicted to get significantly worse based on what happened to them this summer. Orlando, Boston, Charlotte, Indiana, Detroit, and Philadelphia may not have improved but they are probably no worse than last year, while Miami, New York, Chicago, New Jersey, Washington, and Milwaukee can reasonably be expected to improve on last season’s performance based on player acquisitions and players returning from injury. The East has gotten tougher from top to bottom at a greater rate than the Hawks improved this offseason. Also keep in mind that whatever improvements Teague and Drew provide to the Hawks can very easily be offset by injuries, which the Hawks were very lucky not to suffer last year and are still not adequately equipped to deal with from a depth standpoint.
Chances are, the combined effect of injuries and opponents improving results in a lower win total for the Hawks than last year. If the Hawks play exactly as well this year as they did last year, there’s no way they come close to 53 wins; they will have to significantly improve to reach that total again.
K-Dogg
August 5th, 2010
9:07 pm
I cant stop thinking about how Collins came in camp over weight last year when we gave him a chance to play and not only did he never get in shape but our dumb a** owners had the nerve to re-sign him over a half of famer who could have did a 10 times better job then Chimpmunk man!!! Am i the only one that ges how dumb this is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
cp
August 5th, 2010
9:07 pm
Mike is back I’m like you and don’t get why the front office is wasting time. They want a young cheap big well that’s Boone. Sign the kid and stop the foot dragging….And I also see we agree on how it makes no sense to even think about bringing in Siler when they had a chance to take some talented bigs in the second round. Bigs who are much better. I wouldn’t be shocked if they did bring in Siler or bring back RandyMo. Like you stated, the kid Aminu wouldn’t be a bad choice. I would have liked to see him get a chance over Collins.
K-Dogg
August 5th, 2010
9:12 pm
Najeh Davenpoop i was saying 48 wins at best but your right b/c i dont see them being able to beat the Magic and Heat next year and they will split with the Boobcats im not saying 48 wins as a good thing. This team does have talent and they will probably be the 5th seed in the east but bu no means do i think their capable of winning it all!! Also the teague over bibby thing just like the new coach thing we have to wait and see b/c its not like Teague in summer L makes me feel like he is the man i mean he played average at best vs guys that wont even be in the L next year i expected him to be the best player on the summer team but he let the rookie the other Crawford outplay him!!!
PaulieOldschool
August 5th, 2010
9:16 pm
You get what you won’t pay for–zippity do dah. We’ll do nothing, because that’s the most reasonable thing to do when you don’t want to spend a dime. I can understand the reasoning behind not signing Shaq, I never wanted him in an ATL uninnie, anyway. But to not find a big somewhere is just inexcusable. And it will definitely hurt us this year. Poor LD, he deserves better than this.
Najeh Davenpoop
August 5th, 2010
9:23 pm
And for the record, I hope I’m totally wrong and Ken Strickland is right and the Hawks will be vastly improved simply by virtue of firing Woody. The realist in me doesn’t see that happening though. Firing Woody was the right move, but it wasn’t the ONLY move that had to be made.
Najeh Davenpoop
August 5th, 2010
9:26 pm
“its not like Teague in summer L makes me feel like he is the man i mean he played average at best vs guys that wont even be in the L next year i expected him to be the best player on the summer team but he let the rookie the other Crawford outplay him!!!”
Well, if Jordan Crawford can start at PG, then I’m all for him bumping Bibby from his spot. Whether it’s Teague or Crawford doesn’t really matter to me. Someone other than Bibby needs to be starting for this team if they want to improve. Bibby only does one thing (long distance shooting) well at this point in his career, and he isn’t even amazing at that.
K-Dogg
August 5th, 2010
9:35 pm
I agree with that Bibby is a role player at this point and not a starter all im saying is i cant sleep good at night right now knowing Teague is starting until i see him play about 15 games vs NBA competition. I think our coach is a way to try to get us as fans to be optimistic but we all know that we have talent and just dont match up with certain teams but like i have said since game 4 of the 2nd round last year if we dont add a good big and move Big Al to his natural NBA spot the 4 we have to become a fast break team. If we dont do that dont expect us to make itout of the 2nd round is not hard to see if you have been watching this team and all the otehr teams in the NBA over the past 2 years since we have become a true playoff team!!!!
Geemack
August 5th, 2010
9:40 pm
MC
The Shaq situation doesn’t suprise me, because of the history of this franchise.
I am more concerned with how the Hawks are addressing their weaknesses from last season.
The problem areas coming into the offseason were…1) Lack of on court leadership (KB24, Lebron, Chauncey) someone to be an extension of the coach on the floor.
2) Interior defense and rebounding (we were destroyed by all the teams with big frontlines last season on the boards, and protecting the paint).
3) Mentatl toughness. I know that’s not something the front office can change, but we are bringing back the same core group that’s quit in the playoffs 3 seasons in a row. The 4 games we lost to Bos. in 08 were all blow outs, and we know what happened against Cle. and Orl.
K-Dogg
August 5th, 2010
9:51 pm
Yeah bra thats with alot of teams though in the NBa when you get down by 30 points and no you dont match up good with a team and cant beat them. We beat boston that 1st year int he playoffs and that has carried over to where we started to know we could beat them but vs Clevland and the Magic we have been getting blown out by them for like 3 years so when the playoffs come around and they blow you out and then when you come home and give them your best shot and at half time are down by 15 points a teams tends to give up so on the cool i dont blame them vs the magic b/c i knew seeing them play them over the past two seasons that we could not beat them in a 7 game seriers b/c we dont match up well with them. The NBA is about match ups and the teams that can matchup and play any type of style will win but the ones that have their own style have to play that adn run it to perfection to be a good team and right now we cant be great in the half court so we have to get out and run and see where that takes us!!!!
NCBravesFan
August 5th, 2010
10:06 pm
MC: thanks! The salary is one thing but if Shaq wanted to start ahead of Al, let’s be happy the guy went elsewhere. Shaq + the Hawks in those circumstances would not have ended well.
Sara
August 5th, 2010
10:21 pm
The Hawks need to go after Josh Boone. I remember that game against the them in March he had 20 rebounds. So he may not contribute offensively that much, but defensively I think he can help us out.
Melvin
August 5th, 2010
10:39 pm
As much as Shaq gets bash, when was the last time a Shaq led team lost to the Hawks. Was it in his Miami days?????
Mike is back
August 5th, 2010
10:52 pm
CP, what THE sense in keeping bringing in old retreads…Aminu name has been mentioned on the blogs numerous times since his summer league play…hey but what do we know…we are just fans…Sund and the ASG has a proven track record of making rock solid personnel decisions with regards to players,” Right!!”
WhaTEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rev in Tampa
August 5th, 2010
10:53 pm
Najeh, in response to your 9:06pm posting, I agree that other teams in the east have gotten better, but in my estimation only Miami and, possibly, Boston has gotten better than the Hawks. If my 9 year old son’s basketball team adds five college basketball players to their roster, they have upgraded astronomically, but still could not beat the Hawks.
I believe that, as the Hawks stand right now, they will be over the 50 win mark. But I also believe (hope springs eternal in the offseason) that the Hawks will upgrade between now and the trade deadline. Hopefully it will be before training camp when other 7′ will be available so that there will not be the chemistry issues of a mid-season trade.
With the exception of Washington, who added John Wall, no consequential new talent was added to the NBA. Rather, the existing talent shifted from team to team. The Hawks will be fine this season. But, and please hear me on this point, they do need to significantly upgrade to make it past the 2nd round of the playoffs. Shaq would have been an upgrade, but I don’t think he would have been significant enough.
Geemack
August 5th, 2010
11:09 pm
I’m one for not paying the luxury tax for a guy that’s not going to make you a contender. The owners are not cheap, they’re just watching the bottom line.
Samuel
August 5th, 2010
11:11 pm
I am so glad Shaq didn’t come here. This is the biggest bunch of BS ive heard in a long time. You are afraid to sign a player because you are scared to death he’ll make your “allstar” look weak and thus prove to everyone, including your rookie coach, that he needs to start. He went to a “real” organization who is not afraid to sign players and let the chips fall where they may.
I guarantee you that nobody said that Shaq will or won’t start in Boston. Real basketball teams and real coaches don’t operate that way. He may sign for the league min but he’ll push hard and may well win the starting nod. Believe that.
MC, do you know all that crap you wrote for a fact or is it just hearsay and internet blog BS. So, is he gonna respect DOC? DOC aint exactly Phil or Pat either? I still can’t believe people who call themselves professional basketball personnel evaluators would sign the likes of Randolph “freekin” Morris and Jarren “Fatboy” Collins and pass on a Shaq O’neall. I don’t give a dam if the man is 52, he better than them two “SCRUBBS”.
Geemack
August 5th, 2010
11:16 pm
K-Dogg
Bad match ups or not you go down fighting. The problem with Hawks is they don’t go down fighting. The Bucks knew they were out classed last year yet they fought til the end.
That’s why we have no idea what this team is made of, because half way through the process they lay down.
Rev in Tampa
August 5th, 2010
11:19 pm
All you people calling for Josh Boone, Kwame Brown, et al, please keep your eye on the prize. We want a championship. We don’t necessarily need that 13th spot to be filled with a center. No center available right now will help us any more than Jason Collins. Fill it with another quality role player if any are available. We are thin at SF.
ASG felt their hands were tied in free agency (actually they make the most expensive free agency signing this year). Fine, they decided not to go into the luxury tax. They said they would if the right player comes along. I know, ASG lies, Sund lies, Bush lies, Obama lies… But all that doesn’t push the discussion forward. So for the sake of discussion let’s say that the Hawks will keep their word and will go ‘all in’ for the right person. None of the available talent will significantly upgrade us as a team.
I believe the Hawks do need another 7′ to go to the next level. But I don’t want us to try to fill that void with any of the available talent (lack thereof) right now. Patience is the word.
Rev in Tampa
August 5th, 2010
11:41 pm
In his post MC said, “I also could see the Hawks waiting to see if any centers shake free as teams buy out vets when training camps open.” I would like the discussion to transition from gripes about the past to which centers might be available when training camps open.
cp
August 5th, 2010
11:54 pm
How can Boone not help anymore than Collins? Have you seen Collins play? Boone probably grabbed more rebounds in that one game against us than Collins had all of last year period… How did Jordan Crawford out play Teauge in the summer league? Didn’t Teague shoot a higher percentage from the field and have more assist? Crawford scored what 1 point more per game than Teague in the summer league? Teague played well. He had one bad half. Not taking anything away from Crawford but I dont think he out played Teague .I think they both played well l and when Crawford played a lot of point he didn’t look all that comfortable. Dude is a sg and that’s the position he should play. I just cant see Teague being any worse than what Bibby was last year. Bibby could at least be counted on for hitting shots but last year he couldn’t even do that then add in his terrible defense and his inability to get to the line and it was just ugly for Bibby last season.
Grandad
August 6th, 2010
12:07 am
Co-Sign, ‘`Rev’`
We should not get our drawers all buched up over the 13th man.
Luke Jackson is gonna get that spot anyway.
Why would anyone accept a camp invite if no spots were open?
As The Rev says; “patience everyone.
The best we can hope for is a trade.
Either prior to camp or @ the deadline,
but we should be hoping for a trade nonetheless.
[rather than fretting over who occupies the last seat on the bench]
Bird says Indy is looking for an experienced back-up point guard.
Anyone know where we could help him find one?
I’m already pondering potential deals to bring in Troy Murphy.
That’s more fun than wishing for Brian Skinner, reckon?
Rev in Tampa
August 6th, 2010
12:16 am
cp, truly sorry for being confusing with my post. I was speaking hyperbolically about Collins. My point is, “No center available right now will help us any more than Jason Collins” to get us past the second round of the playoffs.
Rev in Tampa
August 6th, 2010
12:20 am
cp, I will co-sign on your comments about Jordan Crawford at pg. Crawford does not have the mindset of a pg. Sg and pg are two totally different positions. I believe Grandad will back me up.
jerrywest
August 6th, 2010
12:28 am
Jamal has every reason to want to play as many minutes as he can. Why wouldn’t he try to become the starting PG in the training camp? Can anyone stop him if he wants to win it?
Fundamentals
August 6th, 2010
12:33 am
AMEN GEEMACK – We’ve never really tried our best and failed. Kids nowdays are afraid of failure. It’s easier to lay down like Lebron and give excuses and talk about your potential.
I’d live with a team that didn’t make the playoffs and went to the lottery as long as they maximized their talent and got beat by better teams. That used to happen alot, now it’s hardly a memory.
Fundamentals
August 6th, 2010
12:35 am
I predict affordable pieces will be dropping like crazy at the trade deadline as teams drop salary and others bulk up. Happens every year.
Troy Murphy would be a nice PF backup to Josh or even push Josh to SF at times…especially for a Bibby, TPE or Mo deal.
Fundamentals
August 6th, 2010
12:36 am
I pray LD will limit Crawford and Bibby if they don’t play top notch D this season. If they won’t committ to team ball and hard play deal them somewhere for someone who will.
Mike is back
August 6th, 2010
12:37 am
Rev in Tampa, no disrespect…there are no quality Bigs left…waiting for one to shake loose is as bad as passing on the one that were available. We are taking about a rare commodity in the NBA. The Bigs left in FA is all you are going to get. Nobody is going give you a quality Big.
You don’t see a need to sign Boone…yet some how someone is going to leave a Big available you can use…CMon Rev…that ain’t going happen. We need to pick from what’s left and be grateful for what we get. Would you agree that humility is better than arrogance…especially if you are a franchise with a dubious existence in the NBA like the Hawks?
Nobody is going to pass on an opportunity to play with a team with a storied tradition just to play with the Hawks…that’s what’s up…win at lease one ring…before you start trying to put some demands down. In Shaq case…this guy has four rings…that got to count for something. Expecting him to tap dance to Sund demands is unrealistic.
I share your optimism…however, it must be tempered with reality. You make those demands if you have a proven track record…but we are taking about the Hawks mind you. Need I say more?
Like it or not…it is what it is.
Brian
August 6th, 2010
12:48 am
Losers!
i_am_soulstar
August 6th, 2010
12:57 am
We should sign Jerry Stackhouse for SF
SteveW
August 6th, 2010
12:58 am
Why would the Hawks look at the most terrible Centers available – absolutely awful in Skinner and Elson? Is there some master advantage to destroying this team?
And face it – ASG pocketed the 3 mill. from draft day – no help on a vet big – liars!
Confusing, but when in doubt, follow the money trail – make ATL mad with a dissapointing team, depress attendance, then move to Las Vegas and pocket 160 mill.?
Grandad
August 6th, 2010
1:00 am
Rev in Tampa
Consider yourself backed up!
A point guard is more than handling the ball skillfully.
I’ve said before;
a point guard is more in the mind & in the heart.
A [1] thinks teammates 1st.
A good [2] thinks when & where is my next shot coming from?
That does not make a [2] selfish, it’s just his natural mindset.
Whereas a [1] is trying to figure out ways to set up;
not only the [2], but the frontline as well, and if in so doing
he happens upon a chance to score himself, then all is well.
SteveW
August 6th, 2010
1:00 am
Kwame or Etan Thomas anyone….?
Rev in Tampa
August 6th, 2010
1:01 am
Mike is back, no disrespect taken. I’ve been spoiling for a good argument. We had vacation bible school at our church this week and I have high-fived more seven year old boys and been hugged by more five year old girls than I ever hoped to in a lifetime. And all the bible school volunteers have wanted ‘me’ time with the pastor. I bet I’ve heard “hey, Pastor Wes” more than 200 times today. And I spent most of my evening in the hospital with two different people. I love my job and my people, but I am spent. I want to blow off some steam in good-natured yet intense discussion about my Hawks.
So… I think Josh Boone is not even an upgrade over Zaza. He is only 6′10″. How will he help us stop Dwight? Boone got his starting job by replacing Jason Collins at New Jersey. The only thing Boone offers is his youth. But we don’t need youth for the future. We need the pieces to go past the second round of the playoffs. Do you think Josh Boone will get us to the next level?
SteveW
August 6th, 2010
1:08 am
I’m just so mad at the entire situation – we could have signed Shaq for the bi-annual, and still been about $700,000.00 under the luxury tax.
Won’t consider Kwame because he wants more than the minimum?
Summary of events
April 26th – Yahoo Sports says ATL shopping to sell its 1st pick
- Fans go crazy
April 29th – Micheal Gearon Jr. says there is no truth to this –
June 25th – ATL trades spots with NJN, sells the #31 pick, and that coupled with 1st round slotting, gives ATL the equivalent of selling its 1st pick – 3m.
Sund then indicates the 3m will be used to get vets – vet bigs it later comes out.
ASG then gets 3 vet bigs (1 to go) for the vet minimum – leaving the 3m unused – confirming the April 26th Yahoo story, and making Micheal Gearon Jr. look very dishonest from April 29th, and Sund later on.
And if we peep about it – ASG moves the Hawks to Las Vegas and makes tons of cash.
Rev in Tampa
August 6th, 2010
1:10 am
Just checked Boone’s free throw percentage. Last year, as a starter, he shot under 33%! I could do that with my eyes closed (no exaggeration). The funny thing is that his picture on NBA.com is of him at the free throw line. And yes, he had his eyes open.
SteveW
August 6th, 2010
1:10 am
I think the point is, of the remaining bigs – Tolliver Kwame, and Josh are the best.
Etan Thomas is a beast however
Rev in Tampa
August 6th, 2010
1:13 am
SteveW, I know you are tenacious in an argument and I am spoiling for a fight, but I am not biting because I am not living in the past. The future is the way forward. Onward ho!
Rev in Tampa
August 6th, 2010
1:16 am
SteveW, I did not see your 1:10 post before I posted regarding your 1:08 post.
I know very little about Etan Thomas. What does he bring that will get us to the next level?
SteveW
August 6th, 2010
1:20 am
We actually have enough money to sign 3 more at the vet minimum – if the rebate the Hawks recieve for so doing doesn’t count towards the cap – which I’m told it doesn’t.
So we may have 3 spots open, or Sund is setting us up for a trade – I don’t know.
SteveW
August 6th, 2010
1:23 am
Rev – his biceps might scare Dwight – check out a picture of the dude – other than that, probably absolutely nothing
Struggling with the patience thing in this instance Rev….
Rev in Tampa
August 6th, 2010
1:25 am
3 vet minimum scrubs or a season-altering trade? I am opting for the latter.
Rev in Tampa
August 6th, 2010
1:28 am
SteveW – “Patience: A minor form of despair disguised as a virtue.” ~Ambrose Bierce
SteveW
August 6th, 2010
1:30 am
Hah! – I like that Rev.
Just thinking that Etan would be better, if healthy than either Skinner – 7-0 240lb disaster who brings nothing to the team, or Elson – 6-9 – 255lbs – terrible basketball player – and both are old.
cp
August 6th, 2010
1:33 am
O ok Rev in Tampa I understand what you were saying now. Good point
Rev in Tampa
August 6th, 2010
1:34 am
Did you see Grandad’s post about Troy Murphy. He is a 6′11″ starting foward. Don’t know if he would be the answer to Dwight, but I am hoping for a starting center to shake loose from one of the bottom feeding teams in the league.