Atlanta Hawks: Getaway day

There will be a blog hiatus for a couple weeks while I get away for some me time. There’s a chance I might drop in with a post if anything interesting happens with the Hawks but don’t count on that (either something interesting happening or me dropping in). Meanwhile the beat will be in the capable hands of Ken S., who will chronicle the Hawks’ attempts to pluck a center from the bargain bin.

I suspect not much will have changed with my blog people when I return. Truth-Serum will still be using his multiple identities to agree with himself that Al is a terrible defensive center. JeJe will continue to rip ASG for not letting J.J. walk and using all that cap space to SIGN FREAKIN’ LEBRON. And all of you will wonder how in the heck this squad is supposed to make a move in the East with basically the same guys suiting up.

Be easy until I get back, blog people. Remember, it’s all love and and it’s just basketball . . .

MC

(Note: Commenting is closed until Michael returns Aug. 2)

1,155 comments Add your comment

jay

July 16th, 2010
1:12 pm

first, enjoy the vaca

I blog with more Heart

July 16th, 2010
1:18 pm

have a blast away on vacation,

I blog with more Heart

July 16th, 2010
1:21 pm

hawks have the worst owners EVER, trust me you will not miss a thing

bunk

July 16th, 2010
1:24 pm

4th the highest ever for mee victory

ryan

July 16th, 2010
1:24 pm

Hey Cunningham is Shaq to the Hawks deal dead and will they go after someone cheaper like Brad Miller.

Grandad

July 16th, 2010
1:27 pm

“if anything interesting happens with the Hawks but don’t count on that (something interesting happening)”
*pessimism reigns
*depressing
*glass half empty

ToeKnee

July 16th, 2010
1:27 pm

MC, just wanna say youve done a great job with the blog.I don’t always write in but haven’t missed one in 6 years. You had some big shoes to fill from Sekou, but youve really stepped up and provided great info and insight and your own unique style different from him. I love the Hawks, and just wanted to say thanks for your work, keep up the good job and enjoy ur break

MannyT

July 16th, 2010
1:32 pm

@MC Enjoy your time away. True canniblogging happens when you go on vacation.

Let Lord of the Blog Flies begin 8-O

D Hawks

July 16th, 2010
1:37 pm

Have a great vaca, MC. The only change that will happen while you’re gone is the Hawks moving further down the Eastern Conference pecking order.

jay

July 16th, 2010
1:41 pm

Remember no matter how bad it is: At least we are not Cleveland.

GT Alum

July 16th, 2010
1:42 pm

MC, nice to see you’re getting into the spirit of being a Hawks’ follower. Let the cynicism flow!

Milt the silk

July 16th, 2010
1:50 pm

Now just add Al Thorn and we are on our way

Atown allday

July 16th, 2010
2:00 pm

Well i guess we’ve seen the last of the Hawks resurgence,because its all down hill from here. All the other teams are getting stronger and were more stagnent. No body to guard DHoward nor the big three in Miami. I wish a dedicated owner would buy the Hawks maybe then the money will be spent to buid a championship team but until then we will always be a good reg. season team and a terrible, horrific playoff team!! That 119 million could have been put to better use for the benefit of the team. The owners can suck monkey butt!! Awful offseason.

BrittishAnger

July 16th, 2010
2:03 pm

Ahhh brains….

Fresh

July 16th, 2010
2:21 pm

Have a blessed vaca MC!!!

And Lol @ Truth-Serum and his multiple identities SMH.

O'Brien

July 16th, 2010
2:23 pm

Good work so far MC. enjoy the vacation.

With JJ being so silent, maybe you can do some recruiting when you’re away.

The Real JC

July 16th, 2010
2:23 pm

Enjoy your vacation, MC, and rest up. Come preseason, you’ll be venting more heat than a smokestack.

theZaZaguy

July 16th, 2010
2:27 pm

Fire Woody!…oh wait.

Shaun Driver

July 16th, 2010
2:36 pm

MC, I’m from louisville as well. I know your on vacation from the hawks but we should get together sometime. I don’t see many hawks fans here.

drmaryb

July 16th, 2010
2:36 pm

MC

Thank You for ALL the updates in FA and for “Keepin’ – It – Real” on this here blog.

As you mentioned, the usual suspects will be doing what suspects usually do:
And, the synergists will continue to call them out and pull their BVD’s up and over their waist lines and, if they’re female? Their bra straps will be consequently snapped!

Between all the in-fighting?
There will be a currency (free flowing cash – pun intended) of Love!

Why is this? Well, because at the end of the day – We ALL love our Hawks and will continue to demand a damn WINNER in this town.

This City, These Fans and Our Vendors? They Deserve It!

So, Be Safe, Be Wild and most of all – Have Fun!
We Love You!

drmaryb

July 16th, 2010
2:51 pm

Parting – Shots!

Ryan?

Like a 2-Live-Stews Caller – He Gone!
What part about the farewell exit speech didn’t you get? (Smile)

That Question has been asked to ad nauseum and answered in kind.

Sorry, to be the bearer of breaking newz, Sir. But, the Shaq & Miller Project
went up in smoke like a crack-pipers dream of another last hit!

Melvin

July 16th, 2010
2:54 pm

MC, we live and die for this B-Ball ish…. Just kidding, enjoy your well deserve vacation…

Melvin

July 16th, 2010
2:55 pm

From Kevin Durant twitter page:

Now everybody wanna play for the Heat and the Lakers? Let’s go back to being competitive and going at these peoples!

Amen, KD.

mountain_jim

July 16th, 2010
2:57 pm

LOL on the Truth-Serum rip. :)

Enjoy your vacation, MC.

Maybe ownership will find a buyer while you are away….. I wish. :(

drmaryb

July 16th, 2010
3:02 pm

Top Heavy!

The Hawks roster is Top Heavy as usual. No weight in the bottom (pun intended) of the bench!

We will run the starters into the ground again.
Well guys, looks like it’ s going to be another White Christmas!

Celtics just re-signed Nate Robinson. They got their Donkey!
We get Nothing!

one last thing

July 16th, 2010
3:05 pm

“I suspect not much will have changed with my blog people when I return”

Mike Cunningham will still be blocking posters who want both Horford and teague gone. Bloggers who supported Woodson will be lost in spam folders and Mike Cunningham will ignore the demands of thousands of Atlantans who want a legitimate Center. Of course their voices Will not be heard because the con ham blog police folder will send them to obscurity and all that remains will be the few (2 or 3) bloggers from the notoriously infamous bubba crew noted for there worship of horford and the baby teague and venomous hatred of Woodson.

Like the Hawks,nothing will change

Feel free to sign

July 16th, 2010
3:07 pm

the petition to get atlanta a new Center and a new hawks feature writer at

Firehorford&cunningham@firethemnow.com

Feel free to sign

July 16th, 2010
3:08 pm

terrell

July 16th, 2010
3:09 pm

Ronnie Brewer to Chicago

2 FOR JOHN DREW

July 16th, 2010
3:10 pm

Guess I’ll have to find something else to read ….. and go to a 12 step progam b/c
i’m totally addicted to this blog !!!!!!!!!!! ….. Have a good vacation MC !!!!!!!!!

O'Brien

July 16th, 2010
3:12 pm

Melvin,

I really like KD. He has even gone to watch a couple OKC summer league games.

It feels like everyone is improving, while the Hawks are standing still. Orlando got better by signing Duhon to backup Nelson. And the Bulls have signed Ronnie Brewer. Boston added JO (along wit resigning all their guys), and we know about Miami.

I think the Bulls are going to be much improved this year. Rose, Brewer, Deng, Boozer and Noah. And they have Kyle Korver and Taj Gibson coming off the bench. Plus they will probably add more none vet minimum guys.

Truth-Serum

July 16th, 2010
3:12 pm

Im both flattered and honored that you singled me out for my multiple blogs on horford. Thank you and have a nice trip.

Truth-Serum

July 16th, 2010
3:12 pm

yea, Now get us a center!

drmaryb

July 16th, 2010
3:13 pm

Here we go! Now, that didn’t take long.

mc coll

July 16th, 2010
3:15 pm

please ASG do something about one of the hawks major problems: PG,BIG,and a scoring SF who can defend the wing. i prefer the scoring SF to play in LD new motion offense.

Knowledge Quest

July 16th, 2010
3:15 pm

Truth Serum youve been immortalize! congrats son!

Joe Mama

July 16th, 2010
3:16 pm

Damn son U famous!

drmaryb

July 16th, 2010
3:17 pm

Snakes on a Plane!

Aye … MC, before you board that plane? Check the vents for snakes!

-Bubba Crew Diva-

Undisputed Champ!

July 16th, 2010
3:20 pm

Congrats Serum, Ive been complaining about Horford and Teague and nobody said s!ht to me.:-( :-(

Wyatt Earp

July 16th, 2010
3:24 pm

Yeah, I think you are getting credit for a lot of us Serum, Its not fair because youre points are more valid so they single you out and call all post against horford to be truth serum. It aint fair to us but Congrats any way! :-(

Angelo Dudee

July 16th, 2010
3:25 pm

Serum where theres smoke theres fire!

Chris

July 16th, 2010
3:26 pm

@O’Brien: Orlando was better than us before they got Duhon. So that does not make much of a difference. Chicago had over $30 million in cap space so you had to figure they were going to get some players once Lebron passed on them, The Hawks dont have much choice but to stand still since they have resigned Joe. Even if they would have let him walk do you really think that they would have signed anyone of any consequence? It would have been the same team back minus Joe.

JerryWest

July 16th, 2010
3:28 pm

MC – have a great vacation.

Barak Obama

July 16th, 2010
3:28 pm

Truth dont get big headed!

Najeh Davenpoop

July 16th, 2010
3:32 pm

This is a good time to reference the absurdity around here. Thanks MC for building the box on this issue.

This is insane, folks. Everyone is son negative, etc. I get opinions. We all have them. But lets just remember that optimism, as a collective fanbase, can go a small way to effecting the outcome with this franchise. Just remember that. Have fun. Have opinions. Share them. Promote dialogue. But remember, its just a game. Sometimes, behind anonymity, people feel like they can say anything without reprimand. This blog becomes more about people trying to become characters and are more worried about their screen name and being some sort of character than actually adding to the discussion.

We dont care about your name. We dont care about who you are. We care about this franchise, what they are doing, where they are going and how it will effect the product on the court. Leave the rest of the “this is more about playing to my identity” and “I can say any outlandish thing for reaction” at the door.

I’m sure someone’s got something to say. Go ahead.

Grandad

July 16th, 2010
3:43 pm

*Alex Ajinca*
I posted the wrong link for Alex Ajinca earlier this week.
$1.4 mil, 7-2, watch the vid
Dallas over the cap. + Looking to trade him.
Cannot take back $. Probably will take draft picks. [next yrs. #1] ?
(*~*) Take a look (*-*)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlcfmCclMtk

Grandad

July 16th, 2010
3:47 pm

Wi Ngn Tu

You may like this kid…..^…..” Alex Ajinca”

Fresh

July 16th, 2010
3:50 pm

Lol…somebody give Truth-Serum a wedgie!!

Grandad

July 16th, 2010
3:50 pm

Hey Wyatt,
You oughta’ take a look @ this here Ajinker feller.
‘Virgil

Grandad

July 16th, 2010
3:51 pm

* ‘Virgil’

Grandad

July 16th, 2010
3:53 pm

Wyatt, just in case you forgot, Virgil is your brother.

ryan

July 16th, 2010
3:59 pm

Well if we don’t get Shaq that is fine but i am very impressed with JT0 and Jordan Crawford watching them on NBA tv Jeff Teauge looks real Sharpe.

Chea

July 16th, 2010
4:04 pm

Najeh, the Hawks should have to do SOMETHING exciting to earn optimism. Yes, MC is right, it is just basketball. Seeing new players is fun, and taking risks, growing, and trying different things should be the natural course. There’s no way the leader of a team that got swept like that should stay, and again, what’s the worst that can happen? A “JUST BASKETBALL” team get’s worse. With that perspective, these decisions aren’t that hard: try to grow, try to build chemistry, and try new things to get there. There no harm in trying! It’s easy to be optimistic about an engaging team that wants to lay it all out there. Do you see that promise now?

O'Brien

July 16th, 2010
4:09 pm

Grandad,

We do have a TPE we could send to Dallas to give them cap relief. But If his salary is $1.4 mil and the TPE is for $3.7 mil, I don’t think the numbers work under salary cap rules.

Could they send us 2 players?

Najeh Davenpoop

July 16th, 2010
4:09 pm

LMAO every Truth Serum split personality posted one after another…

Kevin Durant is quickly becoming my favorite non-Hawks player in the league.

The Najeh Davenpoop who posted at 3:32 is not me. Weirdly enough, though, he makes some good points. I was under the impression that the whole point of stealing people’s screen names was to make them look bad. Apparently this is not the case.

Chea

July 16th, 2010
4:14 pm

gets*

I would like to further highlight MCs last statement. It’s all love, and that’s what I want to see in the team. I want to see the management and players show “all love” to the game. I want to see players step out onto the court feeling blessed and grateful.

It’ll be easy to support that.

Najeh Davenpoop

July 16th, 2010
4:15 pm

$4 million per year for Ronnie Brewer is a great deal. Raja Bell and Ronnie Brewer are going to make an impact in the playoffs this year and everyone will wonder how they were acquired for so little money. Marvin Williams makes more than both of them COMBINED.

Sund could have easily traded Marvin for Shaq by now and signed Brewer to take Marvin’s place without exceeding the luxury tax. It would be nice to have a competent front office.

Dolamite

July 16th, 2010
4:16 pm

Its time for you to go global player!

doc

July 16th, 2010
4:18 pm

Grandad

July 16th, 2010
4:24 pm

Najeh;
there is truth to what you say.
However, there is a range to outlandishness.
Truth-Serum is far & away one point of the spectrum on one end.
(your welcome – TS)
However, drmaryb, myself, nc, Big Ray, and even
Sautee (for argueing with TS) could be considered outlandish.
Then there are the boring bloggers – no names, just same ol’ same ol’.
Then the uninformed, why don’t we trade Zaza for, Kobe?
I’m not certain where I would fall in your assessment of outlandishness,
but I’m the way I am in real life.
I love b-ball but I also abhore boring.
Naj – you are a most respected blogger / poster & I’m a mere neophyte.
This is not a criticism, just a response.
Post Script – TS, this is not in any way a slight on you.
If you are saying we should police ourselves during MC’s absence,
then I agree. The blog cannot deteriorate into chaos.
Thanks for your comment and I hope mine were understood & well taken.

MsDee

July 16th, 2010
4:25 pm

OK Granddad,

I sold!! Plus he’s CUTE!! Now how can we get Sund to think the same way about him..well, minus the him being cute.

Najeh Davenpoop

July 16th, 2010
4:29 pm

Grandad, the person you are responding to jacked my screen name.

Rondo

July 16th, 2010
4:29 pm

Grandad
Will Bynum and Josh Boone do you think these guys will be two good cheap agents that the hawks should sign.

Chea

July 16th, 2010
4:30 pm

I just realized that I have some denial about JJs contract. It’s a done deal, and with it, the exercise of throwing around hypothetical moves that would make the Hawks worth following is moot. Like someone said, we better hope he does something to get his contract voided… is Javaris Crittenton available?

Grandad

July 16th, 2010
4:31 pm

O’Brien

I tried on Trade Machine & he cannot be combined with anothe player.
[do not understand why]
they have TPE’s as well.
Unless we were to give up Teague or JC2 (which we won’t)
couldn’t make the #’s work.
Thus draft pick or picks.
I sure liked the way he looked. [LD fit]

drmaryb

July 16th, 2010
4:35 pm

The Voice of Reason

Najeh Davenpoop: I have always looked up to you and the other ICONIC bloggers for your class, intellectual stimulation and leadership on this blog.

You guys – KNOW who you are and I have recently named an incomplete list that came to mind a couple weeks back.
To the Ire of some and deservedly so. other(s)? – not so much

But, hey … I’m just a bench player and I like my role:

1.To keep my comments lite, respectful to the team and HC and entertaining.
(For Entertainment Purposes Only)

2.I will light into those who attack my character -vs- my irrelevant opinions.
(Remember, I fight dirty!). LOL

3. Bring some medical insight about injuries where I can, to add to the convo.
(Doc helps me out there.)

4. To learn about all the Stats, Facts, Capology and Tradeology.
(I’m way to lazy to research)

5. To have healthy and thoughtful communications about the Hawks and the NBA.

6. To have FUN!

#6 has been pretty tough lately, NOT because of the Hawks and FA.
But, because of The Blog Bully who posts under 35 names and thinks it’s
Ok to disrespect people and posts under their I’d’s as well to inflame others and
basically to terrorize the good blog citizens and their peers.

Honestly, there is NO fun in that! It is immature, evil and cancerous –
I render it intolerable and therefore – unacceptable!

In closing, Thank You Mr. Davenpoop for initiating this dialogue -
You have demonstrated Leadership where no one else has and you Sir,
are appreciated!

Let’s Take our Blog Back! We built this house!

-maryb-
Est. 2007

Rondo

July 16th, 2010
4:39 pm

Hey MC with all that free time on your hands I hope you don’t make you a milk drinker since you say you don’t like kids.And by the way how can you get 2 weeks vacation you haven’t been at ajc for that long man.This isn’t Europe.By the way have a safe vacation.Oh no the teacher is gone and we have a substitute.T.S. and JeJe the class clowns are sure to turn this blogg out now.I hope Ken will suspend or give those guys detention if the try to show out.

Najeh Davenpoop

July 16th, 2010
4:43 pm

Point proven. Already, other “Najehs” agreeing with me. But, at least from reading responses, it seems my words were taken seriously.

“It’s easy to be optimistic about an engaging team that wants to lay it all out there. Do you see that promise now?….”

Maybe. i just ask that people try and have perspective. That, I have seen more of today than in a while.

I would just like to see less people concerned with screen names, stealing handles and spitting venom for the sake of being venomous and more concerned with staying on task.

Sautee

July 16th, 2010
4:46 pm

Now THIS ish is funny!

“Bloggers who supported Woodson will be lost in spam folders and Mike Cunningham will ignore the demands of thousands of Atlantans who want a legitimate Center.”

Thousands of Atlantans? THOUSANDS? I don’t think so, LOL.

Thousands of personalities of ONE blogger, maybe.

By the way, northcyde and cdog supported Woody and I don’t see THEM blocked. Maybe it’s some OTHER reason.

Heh heh.

MsDee

July 16th, 2010
4:48 pm

MANN Grandad, I was sure hoping his cute self could join the team with Al Horford’s cute self!! DANG!!

Najeh Davenpoop

July 16th, 2010
4:49 pm

Grandad,

Pay no attention to the clowns here. And well stated. And yes, its in part hoping that without moderation, that we can stay on topic here. I just think the outlandish turn people away. At a time where this forum and franchise needs more paying attention than ever. Agree or disagree, just keeping perspective is all I ask. The other stuff, name calling, “acknowledge my character on this blog” stuff kills topic. Its more a personal rant than anything.

dap01

July 16th, 2010
4:51 pm

I don’t understand apparently. We have about $65 million committed, the luxary cap starts at $70 million a difference of 4 to 5 million. We also have the exception fromt the childress trade that postones the luxary tax up by an additional 3+ million which means about $73 million.

Why can’t we sign a free agent to a $5.5 MLE and still have a couple of million to play with?

Rondo

July 16th, 2010
4:52 pm

Penny Hardaway anyone? He says he will sign for $500. A come back at 39 yrs. old. What yall think.

Get over it...

July 16th, 2010
4:53 pm

Najeh…both, one, the fake one…

C’mon, dude(s). That was a good point at 3:32p and then someone comes right behind it and starts in on the “stolen screen name” thing. That was what the whole post was about.

Other Najeh…give it a rest. I just wish I could come on here read reaction and dialogue for once without having to get into the rest of the crap.

Rondo

July 16th, 2010
5:01 pm

Will Bynum and Josh Boone anyone?

doc

July 16th, 2010
5:02 pm

anyone interested in knowing what free agents are going for and who is gone and left?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=ArkGNH89UwJH__7Ao6F9vAy8vLYF?slug=ys-nbafreeagenttracker2010

not much left. anyone see anything that might move the asg to spend on beyond just a warm body at practice and to fill the roster to 13 names or non-names?

Clyde

July 16th, 2010
5:04 pm

Doc here’s a line from that article you posted.

“The Hawks are pleased with their lineup of center Al Horford, forwards Josh Smith and Williams and guards Joe Johnson and Mike Bibby,believing they have one of the better starting units in the NBA.”

That’s what’s wrong wit the Spirit Group.

O'Brien

July 16th, 2010
5:04 pm

Dap01,

The luxury tax is not affected by the TPE. it will still be $70 mil.

Najeh,

In hindsight, the hawks could have let Marvin be unrestricted this offseason (by not giving him a deal last season). Especially since there would be lots of guys available this summer.

Or they could have let the market set his price last season. There were not many teams under the cap who would have paid Marvin $7.5 mil to their starting SF.

But I Think rick overpaid, because he had to know Marvin would be a 4th or 5th option.

Grandad

July 16th, 2010
5:08 pm

Rondo:

I like them both;
Will Bynum & Josh Boone.
Both R-FA’s.
Det & NJ can match so no way we can offer enough.
Both perfect fits, both un-attainable, due to Jack-AS[S]G.

drmaryb

July 16th, 2010
5:09 pm

Najeh

An imposter can steal your user I’d, but – can not steal your thoughts and writing style. If, it sounds absurd? I for one, will KNOW that it is NOT you posting it.

I’ve seen you posting for four years now and one thing I KNOW is YOU!

The same goes for Grand-Daddy, and all others. I hope you know the same of me.

Well, we have around 4M and three spots to fill: All, I ask is that we choose the players that fit the team’s personaliy, L.D.’s new schemes on O & D, and the new budget. We are NOT that far off at 53 wins, we just need to UPGRADE from here. No redundant players, but some fresh skills:

Kurt Thomas – an enforcer.
Matt Barnes – a defender on the perimeter (I’m sure he’s gone now tho.)
Ishmael Smith? – a PG (Houston’s SL player – I like him a lot)

No more: West, Collins or Joe Smith please.
Let’s Go Hawks!

Grandad

July 16th, 2010
5:09 pm

Rondo:

I like them both;
Will Bynum & Josh Boone.
Both R-FA’s.
Det & NJ can match so no way we cannot offer enough.
Both perfect fits, both un-attainable, due to Jack-AS[S]G.

Grandad

July 16th, 2010
5:16 pm

* Det & Nj can match, therefore we cannot offer enough
to prevent them from matching.

This is a much more understandable sentence
-&-
stuctured by a seemingly literate person.
G-dad

Clyde

July 16th, 2010
5:17 pm

It looks like we are going to have the same squad we had from last year. The same squad that got swept in the second round last year. SMGDH. Coaching was half of the problem but the other half was lack of talent.

ROLL TIDE

Rondo

July 16th, 2010
5:19 pm

I think Bynum and Boone would be good fits and i agree with asg, sund and L.D. The hawks do have one of the best starting five in the nba.The hawks basically ran nothing but iso’s on offense and won 53 games. The hawks played very limited defense all season and playoffs and made it to the second round.This line-up is good not great.And if L.D. is half the coach he say he is on offense and can get these guys to play solid defense They can be a top team in the nba.Yes the hawks are cheap but man their talent is deep.And i garuntee this season there won’t be no 2nd round sweep.

Clyde

July 16th, 2010
5:22 pm

Tim McCormick > Al Horford

ryan

July 16th, 2010
5:23 pm

Hawks should wait till next year here are some of the 2011 FA Tim Duncan Yao Ming, and Carmello Anthony just to name a few so everyone just relax .

Rondo

July 16th, 2010
5:23 pm

Thanks G-Pops

northcyde

July 16th, 2010
5:25 pm

My thing is . . . they could’ve completely shot down that rumor last week, by simply contacting MC directly, and saying that they either had no interest in Shaq, or was flat out not going to pay even the MLE for him. Why even let the fan base believe that they were even considering it?

Just another case of bad PR by the ASG.

I guess the intention now, is to maybe give a contract to Siler ( that is, if Miami doesn’t snatch the dude up first ). It’s disheartening to see them simply not do anything but try to save as much money as they can. A guy like Brad Miller sure in the hell isn’t going to excite anybody, especially after the season he had in Chicago last year.

Just don’t try to sell us on some scrub big man, as someone who can help us. Don’t sell us that ish like you tried to do with Jason Collins and Joe Smith.

We had one of the worst benches out of all the playoff teams last year, and they do nothing to try to significantly upgrade it?

We have a damn superpower spring up overnight IN OUR OWN DIVISION, and they don’t even blink?

The TEAM will get my unconditional support. But I can’t defend the ownership group anymore. These guys aren’t in it to win it. The Hawks are simply their play toy hobby.

Rondo

July 16th, 2010
5:26 pm

Duncan-Stays
Yao Ming-Stays
Mello-New York
Summer 2011-Possible Lockout
Atlanta Hawks-Make it Happen

Chea

July 16th, 2010
5:35 pm

The Hawks won’t trade Marvin for Shaq because “they have no interest in trading one of their starters.”

Did I miss where the young Hawks pushed the champions to the brink in the NBA Finals? Because SURELY Sund wouldn’t be averse to trading a player that has shown marginal passion for the game on a team that was historically disgraced in a sweep.

Right?

Chea

July 16th, 2010
5:36 pm

As Chuck would say:

Steve Belkin rollin’ over in his grave!

Clyde

July 16th, 2010
5:41 pm

The Hawks won’t trade Marvin for Shaq because “they have no interest in trading one of their starters.”

Did I miss where the young Hawks pushed the champions to the brink in the NBA Finals? Because SURELY Sund wouldn’t be averse to trading a player that has shown marginal passion for the game on a team that was historically disgraced in a sweep.

Right?

Najeh Davenpoop

July 16th, 2010
5:43 pm

4:09, 4:15, and 4:29 are the only posts by me. Time to get the hell out of here until I can have my screen name back.

Kinda weird actually… if someone is going to steal my screen name I’d rather they be posting some bullsh-t so it is easier to tell. Whatever.

MsDee

July 16th, 2010
5:52 pm

Im still OK with what Sund & ASG are doing..they are not trading a starter for a wasted, 38yo, over-the-hill player who wants to call the shots, they are keeping their core together, (a core that indeed won them 53 games with all but 1 offensive play), they still have their MLE and TPE. And who is to say Sund havent been reaching out to Matt Barnes, Brewer, Brad Miller, Haywood, and others but wanted more money that we couldnt give them due to lack of funds..and lets not go back through the high priced JJ story..they did what they had to do to keep their ’superstar’.

cp

July 16th, 2010
5:54 pm

Good work MC…. smh@having to make up 30 screen names just to agree with a dumb point..

Grandad

July 16th, 2010
6:06 pm

That was the real me posting about Alex Ajinca!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlcfmCclMtk

Chea

July 16th, 2010
6:08 pm

You can reasonably reject Shaq for Marvin, but only for doubt in Shaq and his salary demands, not for the fear of losing Marvin. We HAVE to try something new, and get some different personalities on this team. Does Marvin show the passion that deserves a starting spot for the next four years?

Maybe we could have used him to get Al Jefferson, all I know is that a management group that actually cared would have been spurred to action after this year’s playoffs.

Grandad

July 16th, 2010
6:08 pm

I linked again for convenience…..^…..

Grandad

July 16th, 2010
6:09 pm

Grandad

July 16th, 2010
6:10 pm

I apologize for being redumbdant.

O'Brien

July 16th, 2010
6:24 pm

Northcyde,

Hawks PR department suck, their marketing department sucks, an the front office suck.

Why come out and talking about its hard to find a player at 24, And you will look to free agency instead?

Why come out And say after resigning JJ, You will not stop there.

Why come out and say the money from the #31 pick will go towards free agency?

All they did was get fan expectation up, only to let them down, and give the media more ammo to take shots at them.

doc

July 16th, 2010
6:24 pm

gee northcyde, how do you give the team unconditional support and not the asg?

what does that look like to you? buying tickets, parking, food and beverages to every home game?
how does that send any kind of message to the owners?

i have had an image of this team doing the fade that happened to the warriors and the clips most recently, good nuclei with 50 wins and brought down by poor ownership. does that image ever creep into your mind?

go ahead, buy some tickets and send them my way. heh heh

JeJe

July 16th, 2010
6:26 pm

THANKS FOR THE SHOUTOUT, MC.

I AM GONNA MISS YOUR WEEKLY BLOGS ABOUT HORFORD’S OGLETHORPE BASKETBALL CAMP

JeJe

July 16th, 2010
6:30 pm

this FRANCHISE IS A JOKE.

OWNERS SAY THEY’LL SPEND THE LUXURY TAX ON THE RIGHT GUY (WHO THE !@#$ IS THIS GUY THESE MORONS TALK ABOUT?) ARE THEY GONNA WAIT TIL EVERY FA WORTH A SQUIRT OF PISS IN THIS LEAGUE IS GONE BEFORE THEY SIGN MIKE JAMES?

HOW DO U GET A TRADE EXCEPTION, 3M FROM SELLING A PICK, HAVE A WHOLE MLE, AND SPACE BEFORE THE LT, AND NOT MAKE ONE GOD DAMN MAYBE.

NOT 3, NOT 2, JUST ONE. NOT EVEN ONE ROSTER MOVE THIS ENTIRE !@#$ING SUMMER

drmaryb

July 16th, 2010
6:37 pm

OBRIEN

They Lie!

drmaryb

July 16th, 2010
7:02 pm

doc

I hear you bruh! The ASG is making it real hard to be a fan these past 5 years.
Reminiscent of the Rankins and the Falcons – Then came the Blank checks.
Unfortunately, the old man had to die before a change came about.

Now, I don’t want anyone from the ASG to die – but they sure are some
Bona-Fide Spirit killers. Huh?

doc

July 16th, 2010
7:05 pm

here is something interesting on how a gm has to act. for those that said ti was all about d wade convincing james to come hither think again. riles was the man here to make it happen in so many ways. some doubted it, you cant anymore.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=ArZm5ZhTrlPvRa1S3TEtYQE5nYcB?slug=aw-heatfreeagency071610

proactive rather than reactive is what we see here.

doc

July 16th, 2010
7:08 pm

yeah, dear doc mary i like that the atlanta spirit killers group …. ASKG. now that they are out of the courts and sweetly together again i cany use the broken atlanta spirit group (BASG) anymore so we move onto …. ASKG!!!!

i am sure they are working on something big right?

ant banks

July 16th, 2010
7:13 pm

yall keep actin’ brand new. the hawks do this ish every year. the jj signin’ went on into august. smoove didn’t get signed til august. the chills debacle drug on. the hawks will make all of their MOVES in august, when they can pick whoever they want.

ant banks

July 16th, 2010
7:15 pm

they say that teams make their money in the playoffs and not so much on the regular season. with this in mind, you would think that the hawks would do somethin’ to ensure that they can finish a 1st round and drag out a 2nd rd to 7 games.

northcyde

July 16th, 2010
7:21 pm

Doc . . . it’s because I know that when fans are talking about boycotting a team until management upgrades it, what usually happens is management selling off the ENTIRE team, and letting it hit rock bottom, before upgrading it with young players. This gives the fan base “hope for the future”, even if their team is currently garbage.

That whole “fan boycott” thing has never caused an owner to spend more in any sport. What usually causes them to spend more, is winning games, coupled with the urge to compete for a title.

Just because the ownership is unwilling to take chances, doesn’t mean that I’m going to deprive myself of the enjoyment of supporting this team ( a good team ) by not going to the games.

As a fan, I’m not necessarily worried about how much or how little they’re spending. I just want them to make moves that will upgrade the team.

Adding Shaq to this squad is a no-brainer from both a basketball and public relations standpoint. But people are scared of his “personality”. I guess the ASG is too.

And people like to cite his age as reason to not get him. Well I’d rather have a 38 year old center who can still ball . . than a 23 year old center that can’t ball, but has “potential”.

We’re a top 10 team. (( bleep )) potential. We need BALLERS.

All I know, is that all of those people who were aganst bringing in Shaq, I don’t want to see them “flip-flopping”, if Shaq roughs up Horford down on the blocks. Don’t cry then that we should’ve gotten Shaq. Of course we should’ve.

northcyde

July 16th, 2010
7:46 pm

As for as me buying tickets, I’ve thought about that still.

What I might do, is instead of buying a entire season tix package, I might buy a 1/2 season tix package. But instead of one ticket, I’ll purchase 2 tickets, to make them easier to sell.

I know a young woman in her 20s that I used to work with that now lives in ATL with her boyfriend. If push comes to shove, I can always let them use the tixs that I don’t use. Or better yet, have them help me sell the tickets to people they know down there.

If the ASG would’ve secured Shaq, I’d DEFINITELY buy that kind of a package.

atl fan

July 16th, 2010
7:46 pm

I am going to stop wishing for the hawks to sign a free agent becuse we know d well its not going to happend so lets just hope our guys get better and hope for best

atl fan

July 16th, 2010
7:47 pm

Enter your comments here

honest_abe

July 16th, 2010
7:54 pm

Thanks for doing one helluva job. I’ve really enjoyed your blogs!

drmaryb

July 16th, 2010
7:59 pm

doc

Hey baby, WOW! That link was a looong read and a lot to process.
Unbelievable stuff, that sounded like years worth of collusion going on there.
All the way to Bejing and back. That is just – Wronge!

Cleveland, never had a chance nor did any other city on the list that dumped salaries to clear space. I had no idead that LeBron was such a head case.

How will that work in Miami? Isn’t there a weight limit for loading private jets for team travel? Is there an EGO compartment?

I feel differently about Gilbert’s Letter now. He seemed justified in his rantings, I guess he was speaking from a position of inside knowledge.
What a narcissistic personality to treat the staff and employees and his HC with disdain and disrespect! He has a bus load of enablers surrounding him and telling him that he really is a KING? And, sadly, he believed them.

Well, the road to becoming “Lord of the Rings” still must travel through L.A. last I checked. Wonder what Phil & Kobe think of all this!

Well, I for one am glad we re-signed Joe! We NEVER had a snowball’s chance in hell, signing LeBron.

And that, doc? May not be such a bad thing, if the allegations of his:
Team, Posse, Crew, Gang, People and Mama & Nem’ are true.
That is way to many people, personalities and drama for any team to deal with!
I see an implosion the works for Miami’s future.

The NBA is a sport that is Bigger than any one person!

drmaryb

July 16th, 2010
8:13 pm

Doc

IDK the ASKG was done with their court battle. That slipped passed my ears.
But ironically, they have an even bigger court docket coming up -
the basketball court case looms even bigger now.

Heh?

smdh

Blast

July 16th, 2010
8:16 pm

Same ole, same ole crap from the Spirit Group. Set fans up with fake promises, then renege again as usual. Cheap azz owners. Pay Joe a max contract, and call it a day. Fill up the bench with cheap players that should not be in the league. The ASG needs to sell the team to an owner that actually cares about winning.

JeJe

July 16th, 2010
8:18 pm

LOL @ MC calling me out for some JJ bull!@#$ that every other person here said.

Fine, don’t address the 450 good points I’ve made since July 1.

Thank God we don’t have to read your lame Horford Q&As or your Q&A with JJ where you don’t even mention or ask about him taking a paycut

FIRE SUND

JeJe

July 16th, 2010
8:22 pm

THE HAWKS HAVE NOT BEEN LINKED TO ONE PLAYER THIS OFFSEASON BESIDES SHAQ, WHO ASG WILL NOT EVEN SIGN

THEY SAY THEY WILL SPEND MONEY ON THE RIGHT PLAYER

WORST OWNERSHIP/FRONT OFFICE IN SPORTS.

YES, WORSE THAN THE NEW ORLEANS HORNETS

FIRE SUND
FIRE WOODY
FIRE ASG
FIRE STOTTS
FIRE KRUGER
FIRE AL DAVIS

Clyde

July 16th, 2010
8:32 pm

JeJe you forgot FIRE WOODY

Clyde

July 16th, 2010
8:32 pm

I meant FIRE BILLY

drmaryb

July 16th, 2010
8:39 pm

Blog Free

You don’t have to read any of MC’s Q&A’s. Get your Scroll – On over to another blog – hopefully, somewhere overseas.

I promise you, no one will be mourning – if you do!
It will be – Oh Happy Day! And, Hallelujah on MC’s blog.

Believe That!

doc

July 16th, 2010
8:40 pm

northcyde never tell your daughter to marry on “potential”. heh heh

look i know it isnt my money, but shaq, chills and a guy like kurt thomas would have worked well. chills would have made marvin expendable at a lesser price for a sign and trade if it came to that with shaq. he just wasnt coming in at a reasonable price probably or mle is my guess and i cant hold the asg responsible for that.

i can begin to wonder what they are up to and maybe it is a blockbuster trade like last year. this year we dont have a lot of trash to get rid of so there is a risk to that. there is an even greater risk to standing pat. they do that and fans will stand pat and see if we really have a top ten team or a pretender. northcyde you just cant be in the top ten without spending. that is the formula and you are kidding yourself to think this team is any different.

btw, read how riles constructs teams. “organic growth” is not in his vocabulary.

ant banks

July 16th, 2010
8:42 pm

y’all think that hawks fan have it bad…imagine if you are a cavs fan. you had the KING and lost it. i would rather to have never had it, than to have it for 7 years and lose it

drmaryb

July 16th, 2010
8:52 pm

ant banks

“It is better to have had love and lose it, than to have never been loved at all.”
-arthur unknown-

Samuel

July 16th, 2010
9:13 pm

Doc,

While i definitely don’t doubt all that is true. I also know that people in this media and blog business are extremely sensational at times and will do anything to be the first to break a story and write stuff knowing it wasn’t true. And even if it was true, why did Gilbert and all these owners still sell their souls to jump in bed with “The Devil” LBJ? What does that say about them.

Plus, i still don’t see it as collusion. A mill has the right to work and live where ever he wants.

Congrats to Ken Strickland on his new gig.

Ken=BOY

Meidzo in Decatur

July 16th, 2010
9:15 pm

Dr MaryB:

As insightful as you are and as nice of signings as those might be, you have to come to grips with the reality that the ASG is not going to sign ANYBODY, no matter how cheap they might come!

I used to dream about a great Free Agent season, now I dream about someone with money buying the team!

Samuel

July 16th, 2010
9:16 pm

A man has the right to work and live where ever he wants. Dam, i got my finger stuck in the garage door a while ago. No blogger DL for me though. I’m writing an essay and blogging at the same time.

JeJe

July 16th, 2010
9:18 pm

“As for as me buying tickets, I’ve thought about that still.

What I might do, is instead of buying a entire season tix package, I might buy a 1/2 season tix package. But instead of one ticket, I’ll purchase 2 tickets, to make them easier to sell.

I know a young woman in her 20s that I used to work with that now lives in ATL with her boyfriend. If push comes to shove, I can always let them use the tixs that I don’t use. Or better yet, have them help me sell the tickets to people they know down there.”

Go take your lame@$$ story to Oprah. No one cares

JeJe

July 16th, 2010
9:19 pm

this FRANCHISE IS A JOKE.

OWNERS SAY THEY’LL SPEND THE LUXURY TAX ON THE RIGHT GUY (WHO THE !@#$ IS THIS GUY THESE MORONS TALK ABOUT?) ARE THEY GONNA WAIT TIL EVERY FA WORTH A SQUIRT OF PISS IN THIS LEAGUE IS GONE BEFORE THEY SIGN MIKE JAMES?

HOW DO U GET A TRADE EXCEPTION, 3M FROM SELLING A PICK, HAVE A WHOLE MLE, AND SPACE BEFORE THE LT, AND NOT MAKE ONE GOD DAMN MAYBE.

NOT 3, NOT 2, JUST ONE. NOT EVEN ONE ROSTER MOVE THIS ENTIRE !@#$ING SUMMER

Clyde

July 16th, 2010
9:29 pm

Jeje for Blogger Of the Year for 2010-2011

Clyde

July 16th, 2010
9:31 pm

“Wait Till Next Year”

How many times have Hawks fans heard that.

drmaryb

July 16th, 2010
9:34 pm

Fear the Deer!

Yesterday, in Augusta, GA. A deer walks into a Wal-Mart as though it was a valued customer. He ran through the store for about five minutes when two customers corralled him and escorted it to some nearby woods.

Upon leaving the store, the two men asked, “What brings you to Wal-Mart today?”. The deer replied, ” I heard about them Roll-Backs yall got going on up in here, and I wanted to save some Bucks.”.

ROF.

This actually happened yesterday. I provided the reply.

TBS – “Very Funny”

Samuel

July 16th, 2010
10:03 pm

From Basketball Jail to Basketball Heaven. My new favorite team.

http://www.nba.com/jazz/features/jazz_intro_2010.html

Now if my boy Monta Ellis can get moved i’ll be good.

I really don’t what to say to people who would rather have a Duck than a Diesel.

JeJe

July 16th, 2010
10:04 pm

IF THE ASG HAD A CHOICE BETWEEN GIVING LEBRON A $10 MILLION/3 YEAR CONTRACT AND GIVING RANDMO A $9,990,500 MILLION/1 YEAR CONTRACT, THEY’D TAKE RANDMO SO THEY CAN SAVE THE $500 USED TO GET THE PATHETIC TOWEL RAGS FOR THE GAMES THAT I USE TO WIPE MY @$$ WITH IN THE PHILIPS ARENA PUBLIC BATHROOMS AFTER I TAKE A FAT DUMP

JeJe

July 16th, 2010
10:05 pm

doc

July 16th, 2010
10:06 pm

samuel, if you read me when it happened the question i have for the low f]ying gilbert is if lebron quit why would you offer him 120 mil? doesnt sound like a good businessman to me. not sure why you took it this way only i didnt post this to demean lebron, only to show that riles played it cool and got his man. now it appears he may have to wield his influence to get leborn to grow into a professional which might be exactly what lebron needs to become truly his own man. this may be part of it that works in his favor.

as far as lebron, it is his legacy to choose. if this were truly defaming and untrue then i am sure the lebron camp could sue. nike is behind some of this, if not all. it is about money and lebron has huge enablers as does any king or queen including the queen of england. the story the emperor has no clothes is the classic about sycophants, in modern day terms they are called posse’s.

personally, if i had to make the choice between cleveland and miami and with the money on the line and favorable tax laws for florida i would leave my boys behind and head to miami in a heartbeat. i dont fault lebron a bit. as far as “well MJ stayed in chicago” and all that legacy bs …. well cleveland vs chicago or as josh suggested chicago vs milwaukee for even a night no question, it is chi-town all the way. MJ also got a nice 36 mil a year to stay, the bird rules have changed a bit since then with the cap in the way of a significant windfall if lebron had stayed in cleveland. his going to miami sure made our owners pull back and quit on us and forget anything they said about spending to win this year. they are just as much quitters and betrayers as gilbert suggested of lebron.

i never called it collusion though there are written rules that could be used in this case. neither players or management can or should wield influence, though it happens all the time. if you have noticed, i am not characteristically a management guy, sorry, you know that after many years. i dont have that tag or any other similar tag.

btw, the ken s is not for ken strickland but for the ken s that stood in for sekou until MC arrived. ;-)

dude, you better do a better job of protecting your hands to keep your hands on the rod and reel dude. how the fish? aint that a lot more important?

Samuel

July 16th, 2010
10:22 pm

Sorry Doc,

I just don’t do well reading past 4 or five sentences. My Bad.
Everybody that ever asked me what I thought LeBron would do, I never said he would stay in Cleveland. If you had a choice to go anywhere in the country to live, would you?Plus, Gilbert had what 7 years to put some people around him and that’s the best he could do.

You serious, that’s not “THE” KenS. Awh Hell, I was looking forward to some good stuff.

Dude, it was a stupid move with the Garage door. I don’t think it’s broken but it might keep me off the water for a couple of days.

doc

July 16th, 2010
10:41 pm

heh heh heh duck vs a diesel.

id rather have both with chills or a chills and a diesel at least. the diesel would have played a part in holding off the magic and making a few heat pay when it came to push time. felt the guy could have helped. our owners just arent going to cross the tax line are they?

Grandad

July 16th, 2010
10:45 pm

Mary Ellen

Alfred Lord Tennyson, from his poem “In Memoriam”

per your 8:52 post, my dear.

SteveW

July 16th, 2010
10:51 pm

We have 5.3m to sign our last 3 guys.

ASG didn’t say they wouldn’t sign Shaq – the national media did – and they’ve been wrong alot

We keep an extra 800,000 around in case an injury happens, and we have to sign someone for the vet minimum.

4m + to use on 3 guys to not go over the luxury tax – calculated by end of year payroll

Either get Kwame Brown and Anthony Tolliver for about 1.6m each – then Aminu or Dixon

Or get Shaq – go over the luxury tax threshold and sign Aminu and Dixon, wish we had 1 more PG however.

Somebody make ASG use the 3m they got from draft day on a big like they said they would!

SteveW

July 16th, 2010
10:56 pm

Brad Miller – better than Joe Smith last year? Probably about the same

Kurt Thomas – better than Joe Smith or Jason Collins last year? Probably about the same

Only 3 guys left better than Joe Smith and Jason Collins last year – Shaq, Tolliver, and Kwame – end of story.

SteveW

July 16th, 2010
10:59 pm

Sund likes vets – Kurt Thomas – 38, Theo Ratliff – 37, Joe Smith or Brad Miller – 35 – 110 years of vets at the end of the bench – we’ll show the Magic, Heat, and Celts we mean business – we’ll beat them with our canes! People, unless a major miracle happens, we’re in trouble.

JeJe

July 16th, 2010
11:09 pm

WHY DON’T WE JUST SIGN ROBERT SWIFT? SUND WILL TAKE ANYONE FROM SEATTLE.

WHY NOT GET DETLEF SCHREMPF AND SHAWN KEMP WHILE WE’RE AT IT?

drmaryb

July 17th, 2010
12:13 am

Alfred Lloyd Tennyson

I love my Grand-Daddy!

He puts me on his left knee, rubs my head (and a Geanie comes out), he gives me a cherry popsicle and he tells me – “This too shall pass!”

That’s why I LOVE my Grand-Daddy!

Mmmmmwah!

JeJe

July 17th, 2010
12:17 am

THIS FRANCHISE IS A JOKE.

OWNERS SAY THEY’LL SPEND THE LUXURY TAX ON THE RIGHT GUY (WHO THE !@#$ IS THIS GUY THESE MORONS TALK ABOUT?) ARE THEY GONNA WAIT TIL EVERY FA WORTH A SQUIRT OF PISS IN THIS LEAGUE IS GONE BEFORE THEY SIGN MIKE JAMES?

HOW DO U GET A TRADE EXCEPTION, 3M FROM SELLING A PICK, HAVE A WHOLE MLE, AND SPACE BEFORE THE LT, AND NOT MAKE ONE DAMN pick.

NOT 3, NOT 2, JUST ONE. NOT EVEN ONE ROSTER MOVE THIS ENTIRE !@#$ING SUMMER

Emir S.

July 17th, 2010
12:19 am

So am i the only one who noticed that now Brewer is off the tables. The East is gearing up. Reloading ammo into their Uzi’s. We still havent done anything significant. Besides letting Childress go.

Everyones so hyped up about the Heat, that from what I’ve seen the Bulls do, I think they’re the team to beat next season in the East. I dont even know where I’d rank the Hawks. I think back down to the 5-8 spot for us. =(

Time is ticking. To much time. Sund needs to make a move. I’ve been giving him time as a fan of the Hawks. Now I seem to be running low on patience with him. To many teams in the East are making moves. We have yet to make even one.

drmaryb

July 17th, 2010
12:29 am

How many times do YOU have to say the SAME thing before YOU believe it?

Do us all a favor – Roll over and go back to seep!

JerryWest

July 17th, 2010
12:30 am

JerryWest

July 17th, 2010
12:39 am

Can we trade away Mo Evans for nothing, and go under the cap enough to use our MLE? Clips could use him.

Wabe

July 17th, 2010
12:48 am

JeJe

July 17th, 2010
12:53 am

FORGET YOU, DRMARYB.

THERE IS FREEDOM OF SPEECH. I ARTICULATELY CONVEY MY POINTS TO YOU MORONS AND MAKE RIVETING CLAIMS AND CONCLUSIONS. WHAT ARE YOU? THE AJC POLICE?

GTFOH

Mad Hatter

July 17th, 2010
1:05 am

“Thank God we don’t have to read your lame Horford Q&As”

bust dem chops! JeJe

LMAO!

Mad Hatter

July 17th, 2010
1:22 am

drmaryb

July 17th, 2010
1:25 am

I Guess that Glass-Slipper fitted.

LMBAO

Melvin

July 17th, 2010
1:55 am

From CBS sports:

“While the Hawks have ruled out paying luxury tax to sign Shaquille O’Neal — or any other free agent, for that matter — the organization hasn’t shut the door completely on bringing Shaq to Atlanta, a person familiar with the team’s thinking told CBSSports.com. If O’Neal were to lower his asking price from the mid-level exception — starting at about $5.8 million — to the bi-annual exception of about $1.9 million, the Hawks would be interested in exploring such a signing. Atlanta would be able to pay O’Neal the bi-annual exception — or a portion of its mid-level — and avoid paying luxury tax. But the current ownership group has never paid luxury tax and doesn’t plan to begin paying it now. Also, the Hawks haven’t discussed — nor are they interested in — a sign-and-trade arrangement with the Cavs that would cost them a piece of their young core, sources say.”

Melvin

July 17th, 2010
1:57 am

I bet Shaq wont play for 10% of his previous salary. I can’t believe they expect him to sign for that…

Melvin

July 17th, 2010
2:00 am

How do yall like Josh Powell? According to ESPN site:

“Powell has received interest from several teams, including Chicago, Denver, Miami and Atlanta, according to league sources.”

Melvin

July 17th, 2010
2:08 am

I the Hawks should split the 5 mil between Kwame, Craig Smith and rookie.

Jerrywest

July 17th, 2010
2:13 am

Can we trade away Mo Evans for nothing, and go under the cap enough to use our MLE?

Also, throw in the rights of Pepsi or GladyrOut of here, just to sweeten the deal. They will never be worth $3 mill (like Anderson or 31st) in a trade away anyway. What else do we need them for?

drmaryb

July 17th, 2010
2:14 am

Hey Samuel,
re: 913 PM

Ken S. Is Ken Sigura. He is also an AJC Beat Writer, he is great and awesome too. Ken S. covers the blog all the time when MC is on vacation.

Trust me, you’ll like!

Don’t forget Blu-Ray @ Hawk Squawk!
That’s where I’ll be and MC will have to steal me back. You can’t leave a woman alone, for two weeks and expect her to sit still.

-sniggles-

Melvin

July 17th, 2010
2:16 am

doc

July 17th, 2010
7:03 am

uh dmb that is ray at “hawks fan nest” of the ajc girl.

doc

July 17th, 2010
7:09 am

melvin at the bottom he essentially says what i said yesterday on the other blog. just dont hold your breath on the blockbuster trade until it happens. go ahead askg, make my day.

dap01

July 17th, 2010
7:53 am

I understand that MC needs to “stay in good” with his sources in the Hawks organization but someone in the press needs to ask some real questions about the public being lied to and how the organization is so poorly run.

This offseason offered many possibilities. We have chosen the one with the least promise. We could have had JC AND a big in the draft, instead we opted for money that will never be spent to better the team.

We have been lied to. As team is constructed right now, fans will lose interest, attendance will drop and the ASG will fail. When they fail and go away, I will be happy. I will be older because this last rebuilding process has been many years. It seems that we never simply made the right decision, we have always been left scratching our head.

The management of the Hawks sucks!

Hoops

July 17th, 2010
8:13 am

Live from New York!

The Hawks should get the 3 oldest, but cheapest players available to fill out the roster. The objective is not to improve and win, but to simply fill out a team!

NOTSO FAST

July 17th, 2010
8:42 am

We need a center. One that can run the court and play defense. Anybody available?

Hoops

July 17th, 2010
9:09 am

NOT SO FAST,

I’m sure we can find someone off the street as long as they require no money!

O'Brien

July 17th, 2010
9:11 am

Dap01,

The writers who can ask the tough questions are the columnists (mark Bradley, for example). MC is the beat writer.

If the ASG wants to save money, why give bibby (especially at his age) a 3 year guaranteed deal? Not smart.

Why give Marvin $7.5 mil to be the 4th or 5th option? Not smart.

As for shaq, I don’t think anybody will give him the MLE. if he lowers his price, he Would be an excellent pickup for hawks.

JeJe

July 17th, 2010
9:19 am

LOL @ Shaq lowering his asking price to 1.8 million a year.

LOL ASG is a group of disillusioned idiots

JeJe

July 17th, 2010
9:50 am

The Bulls haven’t even added one superstar from the big list this summer and still HAVE HAD A BETTER OFFSEASON THIS YEAR THAN THE HAWKS HAVE EVER HAD

PUT THAT IN YOUR PIPES AND SMOKE IT

drmaryb

July 17th, 2010
10:10 am

doc

OMB (oh my bad), re: Blu-Ray’s Blog @ Hawks Fan Nest. Bruh, I was trying to hook Samuel up after a night of dancing to “Sweet Home Alabama” @ restaurant
Tara Humata and after two jager bombs!

One should never give advice under such duress. (*_*)

drmaryb

July 17th, 2010
10:17 am

dap01

They Lie!

(*_*)

dap01

July 17th, 2010
10:36 am

dmaryb and Obrien: I know that MC does a great job. I am simply frustrated. They don’t even seem to have a plan. Sund has disappeared. They have no credibility.

cdog

July 17th, 2010
10:45 am

THIS WILL BE MY LAST BLOG FOR A WHILE.I FEEL SORRY FOR ALL OF THE LOYAL HAWKS FANS WHO IF THEY WERE GMS WOULD DO THE OBVIOUS MOVES AND BRING A TEAM TO ATLANTA THAT WOULD CONTEND FOR THE TITLE BUT UNFORTUNATELY, YOU ALL HAVE TO PUT UP WITH RICK SUND WHO IS NOTHING BUT A CHEAP TIGHT FISTED LOSER WHO WILL NOT DO ANYTHING TO BETTER THE TEAM. ALL HE DOES IS SIT BACK AND SMILES THEN LET OTHER TEAMS GET BETTER,LOSE PLAYERS THAT COULD HELP BRING A CHAMPIONSHIP TO ATLANTA.WELL, ITS ON YOU FANS NOW.I’M GETTING OFF HERE.I SEE ONLY MEDIOCRITY AND LOSING DOWN THE ROAD FOR THE HAWKS AS LONG AS SUND REMAIN WITH THE ORGANIZATION.WELL, GOOD LUCK TO ALL WHO KEEP WISHING FOR SUND TO DO SOMETHING TO BETTER THE TEAM I DON’T SEE IT HAPPENING.HE WILL HOLD ON TO MONEY AND DO NOTHING WITH THE MONEY DOWN THE ROAD.THE MAJIC,BOSTON, MILWAUKEE, CHICAGO AND NOW MIAMI WILL ALL DRILL THE HAWKS AND FINISH AHEAD OF THEM .EVERYONE WILL BLAME LARRY DREW WHO WILL BE AT SUND’S MERCY THEN HE WILL BE FIRED.IN THE MEANTIME THE HAWKS WILL BECOME THE HAWKS OF OLD, LOSERS.ITS SAD BECAUSE HAD BILLY KNIGHT STAYED, HE WOULD HAVE DONE THE RIGHT THING. HAD HE BEEN PATIENT WITH MIKE WOODSON PLUS CONTINUED TO ADD PIECES TO THE TEAM, THE HAWKS WOULD HAVE PLAYED FOR THE TITLE THIS PAST AND UPCOMING SEASON.HE KNEW BAASKETBALL BETTER THAN SUND WILL EVER KNOW BUT HIS IMPATIENT CAUSED HE AND THE TEAM.MAYBE SOMEONE’S EYES WILL OPENED ABOUT SUND.I FEEL SORRY FOR THE MANY WHO WILL HAVE TO SUFFER FOR THE HIRING OF RICK SUND. THEY WILL CONTINUE TO BE FOOLED BY SUND’S ANTICS AND TACTICS THAT WILL LEAD TO LOSING ANFD FUSTRATIONS

Big Ray

July 17th, 2010
10:51 am

Northcyde

“The TEAM will get my unconditional support. But I can’t defend the ownership group anymore. These guys aren’t in it to win it. The Hawks are simply their play toy hobby.”

Dude, that’s what we’ve been screaming all along. Yes, the team deserves our support all the way, even when they fell apart in the playoffs last year. But it’s the owners who get the support of our dollars. Many fans may say out loud that they blame the players, but the real predominant sentiment has to do with ownership/management. That’s why so much angst over spending for season tickets, choosing to not make the Hawks a priority, etc….

These guys have proven themselves to be what they are, and it’s unfortunate that both the fans and the team have to suffer for it.

Big Ray

July 17th, 2010
10:52 am

cdog ,

We’ll miss your incessant typing in CAPS. :lol:

Truth Serum ,

I believe the word you’re looking for is “infamous”, not “famous.”

Trust me, there’s a difference….

JeJe

July 17th, 2010
10:57 am

Amen, cdog.

ASG SAYS THEY WILL PAY LT, THEN THEY WON’T
LOL

JOSH POWELL? ANTHONY TOLLIVER?

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! THESE GUYS THINK SHAQ WOULD COME HERE FOR 1.8 MILL A YEAR.

WORST OWNERSHIP/FRONT OFFICE/GM IN SPORTS. WORSE THAN THE PATHETIC NEW ORLEANS HORNETS WHO WILL LOSE CP3 IN 2 YEARS TO THE NEW YORK KNICKS

JeJe

July 17th, 2010
11:30 am

“and others but wanted more money that we couldnt give them due to lack of funds”

BULLCRAP

WE HAVE AN MLE, 3M FROM TRADING A PICK, AND A TRADE EXCEPTION

WE HAVE PLENTY OF !@#$ING MONEY. BRAD MILLER ISNT DEMANDING A MAX CONTRACT. GOOD LORD

JeJe

July 17th, 2010
2:07 pm

LOL

Brad Miller going to Houston for 15M over 3 years. We coulda easily OFFERED HIM THAT !@#$ING DEAL HERE. WHY THE HELL DID WE NOT GET THIS GUY IF SHAQ ISNT AN OPTION???????

Grandad

July 17th, 2010
2:13 pm

“Dallas is hoping to trade Ajinca, but Nelson said:”
“there’s been little movement on that front so far”
per – espn Dallas / Ft Worth *[Jeff Caplan]

Look, I’m not pushing Ajinca, per se.
*We need a big / don’t want to spend any money.
*He’s inexpensive
*We do not want to break up core.
*They cannot take back an expensive piece. [Dallas over cap]
*He fills our bill.
*We should be able to give up a draft pick or picks to get him.

To me it figures to be a match.
“Git ‘er done.”

Ramon

July 17th, 2010
2:26 pm

Brad Miller just agreed with Houston.

UGA

July 17th, 2010
2:46 pm

That’s fine, did anyone really feel Brad Miller would make us that much better????

If we signed him or Shaq, Zaza will be riding the pine!

Kurt Thomas then Kwame are our best hopes now unless a trade happens….

Houston may have to make a trade. They have 3 Small Forwards: Battier, Ariza and Budinger

JeJe

July 17th, 2010
3:26 pm

TRADE DUCK STRAIGHT UP FOR BATTIER AND TELL BATTIER TO GET HEALTHY.

BATTIER >>>>> DUCK LOL

O'Brien

July 17th, 2010
3:27 pm

Miami already signed big z. And they are expected to sign Jamal magloire.

I think we should go after Joel Anthony. He is cheap, and played well for Miami last year.

even if we slightly overpay, he should still be affordable.

O'Brien

July 17th, 2010
3:28 pm

Enter your comments here

UGA

July 17th, 2010
3:28 pm

They signed Anthony yesterday to a 5 year deal

Grandad

July 17th, 2010
3:40 pm

“I” would trade Marv the day before yesterday for Battier.

JeJe

July 17th, 2010
3:45 pm

MIAMI HAS GOTTEN 2 SUPERSTARS THIS SUMMER + MIKE MILLER, ILGAUSKAS, JUWAN HOWARD (STARTER LAST YEAR), RESIGNED ANTHONY, MAGLOIRE, AND PROBABLY 3 MORE VETS AND WE HAVE SOLD CHILDRESS FOR A !@#$ING T.E. WE WONT EVEN USE

SteveW

July 17th, 2010
4:01 pm

ASG, you made 3m on draft day – you said you would spend it – now Ridnour and Brad Miller are gone – So now we get Josh Powell if we’re lucky, Kwame Brown (but the Heat want him bad, to go against Howard) if we’re lucky, and Anthony Tolliver if we’re lucky. If not, looks like 38 year old Kurt Thomas, 37 year old Theo Ratliff, and our choice of Aminu or Dixon off the scrub leaque roster – wow, I’m underwhelmed. Waiting for Sund to hit a home run, hope he does…

O'Brien

July 17th, 2010
4:03 pm

I was way off. Joel Anthony resigned with the heat. 5 years $18 mil.

Hawks are down to slim pickings. ..

Melvin

July 17th, 2010
4:32 pm

Brad Miller got a 3yr/15mil contract and the ASG expect Shaq to accept the vet min? They better check the seat cushions at Philips for money and up their offer if they want to sign the Big Peach (Shaq)…

JeJe

July 17th, 2010
4:35 pm

ASG WANTS SHAQ TO TAKE A DEAL STARTING AT 1.8 LOL. THAT’S 1.2 LESS THAN FREAKING BIG FOREHEAD 6″5 JOEL ANTHONY WILL GET

Ramon

July 17th, 2010
5:10 pm

I see now ASG stands for ”A STUPIDASS GROUP”. They haven’t made a single move to improve next season outside of firing Woody. I know they could’ve traded Zaza to clear cap space.

JeJe

July 17th, 2010
5:36 pm

It’s not like BRAD MILLER IS THAT GOOD (LOOK AT HIS NUMBERS IN THE CLEVELAND SERIES) BUT HE IS BETTER THAN THESE UNKNOWN SCRUBS LIKE POWELL AND TOLLIVER

Big Ray

July 17th, 2010
5:59 pm

Nah, we aren’t going after anybody until we’re SURE they’ll play for $800,000, and not a penny more. Heh…

♥Mz. Hawkdafied♥

July 17th, 2010
6:36 pm

Whatever! What time does the summer league game start?

O'Brien

July 17th, 2010
6:41 pm

My strategy would be to spend the $4.5 mil on 2 decent guys. And then for the 13th spot, i would give it to somebody from camp, or use it to audition somebody from the D-League.

Dont get some over the hill or over the weight vet. At least the d-leaguer will be extra motivated.

I think they should go after Anthony tolliver to be the backup PF

JeJe

July 17th, 2010
6:50 pm

My sources are telling me the ASG is offering Patrick Ewing (Sr.) a $1M/2 year deal. Apparently he is the vet big they are looking for.

Details to come.

macaroni tony

July 17th, 2010
7:38 pm

July 15, 2010

While the rest of the NBA is still coming down from the high of LeBron James’ announcement that he would play in Miami with Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade combined with the fallout of Cavs’ owner Dan Gilbert’s diatribe against LeBron, the rest of the league is still conducting its business.

On Wednesday the Hawks announced the trade of former forward Josh Childress, who played his last two seasons in Greece, to Phoenix for a second-round pick and a trade exception of about $3.6-million, according to Michael Cunningham of the Journal-Constitution.

In recent days, rumors have flown that the Hawks might be able to acquire Shaquille O’Neal from the Cleveland Cavaliers in a sign-and-trade for Marvin Williams. Now while the Hawks don’t necessarily seem inclined to trade the former No. 2 overall pick, who is 24, for a 38-year-old center, the fact that the Hawks have picked up a trade exception to the salary cap could make some kind of trade with the Cavaliers for O’Neal more plausible. Shaq is said to want more money and the Cavs obviously would prefer an asset to losing O’Neal to unrestricted free agency (with no compensation in return) and the trade exception would be one way to make all parties happy. Of course, it would come down to which asset the Hawks would want to part with — and that Cleveland would agree to take. But if they’re faced with losing Shaq for nothing the Cavs might take anything they can get, possibly even the second-round pick the Hawks just received for Childress.

Last season the Hawks had the lowest payroll of any team that made the playoffs and so by advancing to the second round, one could argue that they are getting among the best value for the dollars that they are spending. The moves they have made in recent weeks would appear to put them in a position to add to the payroll but by doing it in such a way that it does not cost them much money or cause them to have to pay the league’s dollar-for-dollar luxury tax. Remember, they traded their second-round pick at the June 24 draft for cash — cash they could apply to the payroll, possibly even to paying O’Neal — and now they have picked up a trade exception that could save them millions more.

So while the Heat have made dramatic moves — with their roster at one point down to three players — the Hawks have been content to keep their core group together and to add to their roster shrewdly and quietly, in keeping with the personality of general manager Rick Sund.

“I think we’ve really made a lot of strides the last few years,” Sund said in video posted on the team’s Web site following the re-signing of All-Star guard Joe Johnson last Thursday. “…We’ve got a little scar tissue along the way, which is good, and now we’ve got to get through the hump. To do that, we need the all-pro guard that we had, a four-time all-star. I’m excited. I like our club. I think we’ve got a number of players here who can play at championship caliber.”

When I first met Sund about two years ago to write a profile on him, he offered his theory on how NBA teams can win championships. That theory must have ended up on the cutting room floor, but I found an excerpt of it in his comments to the AJC’s Mark Bradley in an interview from last year.

Here’s the relevant part concerning the Hawks’ current building process:

“Can you win championships and be an elite club with three or four players on your roster who are in the top 10 or 12 at their position? You can,” Sund said. “Detroit showed that [in 2004]. Now [Chauncey] Billups today is an All-Pro All-Star, but he wasn’t when Detroit got it, and neither was Rich Hamilton. And neither was Tayshaun Prince. But Ben Wallace was in the top 10 of power forwards, and Rasheed [Wallace] went from a top five player in the league when he was at Portland to a top eight.

“If you get enough players collectively who are in the top 12 or 13 at their position, you can win a championship. It’s been proven. And that’s what we have to do … We’ve got to do it collectively if we don’t have an MVP candidate.”

Well, the Hawks don’t have an MVP candidate — unless Josh Smith or Al Horford make a dramatic and unforeseen leap this coming season — but here’s what Sund also said on that video after re-signing Johnson.

“When you look at our club, we’ve got about four players who are top 10 at their position,” he said. “Joe is obviously top four or five at two guard. We had the best sixth man at his position in the league last year [Jamal Crawford, who won the league's Sixth Man Award]. We consider the sixth man a position. Al Horford made the all-star team last year so he’s probably in the top 10 at the center position. And Josh Smith has made some big strides, then you have a solid young player in Marvin. We’ve got a really good core here.

“I think the fans had a lot of fun last year. They’ve watched the team grow. We’ve got four players in our core – and we’ll throw [2009 first-round pick Jeff] Teague in there as he grows – that are 24 years or younger, so we have a chance to be a really good competitive club for years to come and that’s exciting.”

So if you interpret what Sund is saying, theoretically, at least, he must believe that the team has some chance of competing for a championship. Many observers would likely scoff at that, especially noting the Hawks’ two quick exits in the second round the last two seasons.

Is Shaq the missing link? Will they get him? It’s impossible to forecast, but one would have to conclude that even with the Heat adding Bosh and LeBron, the Hawks have to think they are close.

jhan

July 17th, 2010
8:49 pm

I remember last season when other teams were making moves many on this blog said the Hawks were cheap, dumb, don’t care about winning, etc…

Sounds very familiar to this season. I would like to see the Hawks do 2 things this offseason – find a legit center that can play 20 minutes a game & find a legit SF to play about the same.

Because they haven’t accomplished this yet doesn’t mean it won’t happen – it just means the Hawks are being their slow, methodical selves.

Come August if we’re still looking then I’ll be very dissapointed.

cp

July 17th, 2010
9:27 pm

game tonight is at 10:30

Sautee

July 17th, 2010
9:44 pm

jhan,

Good to see you here. I’ll co-sign that post.

Melvin

July 17th, 2010
10:09 pm

Hawks came to the NBA offseason (which is similar to a gun fight) with a 6 shot revolver pistol and use 5 of their shots to re-sign Joe while the other teams came to the shoot-out with semi-automatic pistols. I guess the Hawks are going to channel their inter Angelina Joeline and take out multiply targets with one bullet like she did in the movie Wanted…

Melvin

July 17th, 2010
10:39 pm

Big Ray

July 17th, 2010
11:01 pm

Melvin,

Only problem is she shot herself with that bullet. So yeah, the analogy fits…. :lol:

cp

July 17th, 2010
11:04 pm

Teague and Crawford with solid first quaters. Defense is looking good

jerrywest

July 17th, 2010
11:05 pm

Hawks don’t have to give away Marvin to sign Shaq.

Hawks can give away Mo Evans & a 2nd round pick to clippers for nothing, and sign shaq at MLE and still pay no luxury tax. Hawks can do the trade at mid season and avoid luxury tax.

cp

July 17th, 2010
11:09 pm

Davidson is playing like he wants a job and Sy is very aggressive

Big Ray

July 17th, 2010
11:09 pm

Dang….Pape Sy is aggressive…

Jamerio Davidson sure likes that fallaway jumper, and he can shoot.

Big Ray

July 17th, 2010
11:11 pm

Right on, CP .

Even Luke Jackson has been playing quite well. Dude’s been strong on “D” and hitting some shots as well.

I still don’t see a need (or desire) for him, though.

cp

July 17th, 2010
11:16 pm

Yea Ray unfortunately for Luke we dont have a spot for him but he is playing well

cp

July 17th, 2010
11:20 pm

Teague is being aggressive and not thinking but just playing and he looks much better

cp

July 17th, 2010
11:24 pm

Melvin

July 17th, 2010
11:28 pm

Teague is ballin tonight… I like his swagger this game…

Big Ray

July 17th, 2010
11:41 pm

Ok, now that was just a crazy play…

Big Ray

July 17th, 2010
11:46 pm

From this group, I like Aminu. But Hendrix is the one I’d take…

Melvin

July 17th, 2010
11:47 pm

After watching Jordan Crawford play, I’m still wondering why haven’t the Hawks traded Mo Evans yet…

Big Ray

July 17th, 2010
11:47 pm

Aminu is worth somebody’s time, but Hendrix has the strength and a little better consistency.

Big Ray

July 17th, 2010
11:49 pm

Melvin,

Defense. And, I’d rather do something like that after seeing how Crawford does in the preseason, which pits him against actual NBA competition.

cp

July 17th, 2010
11:51 pm

I was thinking the same thing Melvin. Mo plays hard but he always has those month long droughts where he cant hit anything.

Melvin

July 17th, 2010
11:51 pm

Ray,

Hendrix has nice post moves but I think he’s too small and not athletic enough to play PF…. I would go with Aminu b/c of his length and athletic ability…

cp

July 17th, 2010
11:58 pm

Honestly Aminu, Hendrix, Davidson, Jackson, Augustine,or Glider would all be better at the end of the bench rather than RandyMo, Mario, Porkchop Collins and Joe Smith

Big Ray

July 17th, 2010
11:58 pm

Melvin,

I’d go with that too, but we once had a guy just like him (Solomon Jones) who had a better jumper as well. Hendrix lacks the athleticism, but he’s got the strength and instincts. What the hell, it’s a project either way. I’d take either one of them over RandMo, I will say that.

Big Ray

July 17th, 2010
11:59 pm

LOL….exactly, cp…

Big Ray

July 18th, 2010
12:00 am

I think Joe is a good locker room influence and a guy we mishandled last season. All the same, we need a vet we know can put in some good, tough minutes for us. I think Joe is past that point by now…

cp

July 18th, 2010
12:00 am

I meant Gilder

Big Ray

July 18th, 2010
12:11 am

Man that guy just plain sucks.

Big Ray

July 18th, 2010
12:12 am

Not Gilder…#35…

cp

July 18th, 2010
12:13 am

Its time to end the RandyMo experiment

Big Ray

July 18th, 2010
12:19 am

Agreed….I’m out…sleepy as hell…

Rick Sund

July 18th, 2010
12:24 am

Did you all NOT just see our Summer League Team play? We have future stars on this team and believe that the emergence of Teague and Jordan Crawford will help the Hawks win the Title in 2011. Luke Jackson may also be signed, as he has shown Larry Bird-like qualities.

Also, expect Randolph Morris back.

My motto is: The cheaper, the better

cp

July 18th, 2010
12:27 am

Teague played very well again tonight. He looked confident and aggressive and wasn’t turning the ball over. He set guys up and even knocked down a few jumpers. Crawford was Crawford…Gilder, Jackson, Davidson were all solid. Aminu and Hendrix looked solid out there as well. Sy for the few minutes he played looks like a guy who could play this year but I know they want him to go back overseas. It will be very interesting to see who they invite to camp….. If RandyMo is one of them then something is wrong. Dude has shown me that he is worse than I initially thought. Just no fire, no defense, and wont rebound.

Hawks Fan In New Orleans

July 18th, 2010
1:32 am

Remember Sund gave the fans and the league his strongest poker face when he brought JC in last as a sixth man and many on here doubted that move. Maybe he is plotting a another gem like that this time around. Let’s not forget that Crawford trade came late in the off season as well. Let’s see what the man can cook up with the scraps he has been given by the asg.

Grandad

July 18th, 2010
2:39 am

The star of the summer league has been the “defining of the offense”.
Screening, cutting, scoring off catches instead of pounding the ball.
Player movement, ball reversal, everyone getting touches.
Slipping screens, unselfish play, 2nd, 3rd, & sometimes 4th options.
Back cuts, playing inside out, catch & shoot after being assisted.
It’s been beautiful & these kids haven’t even had much time together.
Kudos to LD + staff for putting this together / quickly.

JeJe

July 18th, 2010
6:55 am

Sund said we have 4 players in the top 10 in their positions and that Duck is solid.

No one is being traded….

doc

July 18th, 2010
8:02 am

thanks GD, i hope that part of the plan works.

nobody

July 18th, 2010
9:20 am

I hope aminu gets Morris’ spot. He fits our style better and he actually have potential

O'Brien

July 18th, 2010
9:22 am

Guys,

Another reason why Mo has not been traded is because he is our backup SF (although he is really a SG). And I do think his defense is overrated. He just isnt big enough to guard SFs.

Hawks fan in N.O.,

If I’m not mistaken, the Crawford trade happened the last week of june (last year).

Mo Evans was signed in July 2009 and flip was signed in early August 2009.

nobody

July 18th, 2010
9:29 am

I wish we could sign someone like Barnes. He messed with Kobe last year and we are going to need that when we have to play wade, Lebron, and Bosh at the same time. I just hope we dont spend money on guys like jason collins and randolph morris. Morris especially. Aminu would be nice. I am a kurt thomas supporter.

nobody

July 18th, 2010
9:38 am

Why dont we send Mo evans for Shaq. Thats a bit more fair……….

Melvin

July 18th, 2010
10:03 am

For those who wanted RandMo gone, you may get your wish…

“Another name for the long list of candidates to land in Maccabi Tel Aviv next season. The Israeli team is currently in talks with Randolph Morris, though no agreement is expected soon. The 24-year-old center has played during the last two seasons for the Atlanta Hawks, averaging 2.2 points and 1.4 rebounds per game in the last one. The Hoops Market”

bigdave

July 18th, 2010
11:37 am

Samardo Samuels.. wide body.. worth a look.. not sure he’s much of an upgrade over Kendrix.. but worth a look..

bigdave

July 18th, 2010
11:38 am

northcyde

July 18th, 2010
1:44 pm

Hawks Fan In New Orleans

July 18th, 2010
1:32 am

Remember Sund gave the fans and the league his strongest poker face when he brought JC in last as a sixth man and many on here doubted that move. Maybe he is plotting a another gem like that this time around. Let’s not forget that Crawford trade came late in the off season as well. Let’s see what the man can cook up with the scraps he has been given by the asg.

*************************

Actually . . . the Jamal Crawford trade was announced in June of last year. It was the first major move that any team did last year. Sund didn’t even wait.

As for his assertion that we have 4 players in the top 10 at a given position, let’s see what hoopsstats.com says about that. Hoopsstats base their rankings on overall efficiency.

TEAM RANKINGS

OVERALL: #11

BACKCOURT: #4
FRONTCOURT: #13

STARTERS: #6
BENCH: #17

IN THE PAINT: #5
OUT THE PAINT: #13

PG OVERALL: #20
SG OVERALL: #3
SF OVERALL: #27
PF OVERALL: #8
C OVERALL: #5

*****************************

INDIVIDUAL RANKINGS BY POSITION

PG: Bibby – #39 . . Teague – #73

G: Johnson – #5 . . Crawford – #17 . . Mario – #85

SF: Marvin – #22 . . Mo Evans – # 50
-
PF: Smoove – #7 . . Joe Smith – #73

C: Horford – #6 . . Zaza – #61 . . Collins – #101

**********************

When you look at our team, it’s obvious what the problem is . . . . lack of QUALITY depth. So ANY quality we can add to this team, will be a plus. I agree with the others when they say if a guy like Jordan Crawford proves in camp that he’s a better player than Mo Evans, the rookie HAS to play.

The Hawks bench lost so many leads last year, it wasn’t even funny. That bench was NOT good last year. And that #17 ranking they ended up with, was between 20 – 25 for most of the year, until the bench did start playing a little better starting in March. But even then, most of that was because of Crawford.

Ramon

July 18th, 2010
1:54 pm

Here is a crazy scenario. Why couldn’t Teague and JC2 start in the back court (if both earns it)? Teague, JC2, and Joe at the SF, would add even more speed, better defense, and better scoring. We could have Crawford and Marvin (along with Bibby) come off the bench to give the 2nd unit even more of a punch. I actually think Marvin numbers would go up if he came off the bench. If JC2 comes in preseason and shows he can guard opposing 2 guards, then why not see about that lineup?

O'Brien

July 18th, 2010
2:03 pm

Ramon,

Even if they play well in training camp, I think thats too much pressure to put on a rookie and second year PG. Plus I dont think we should play JJ so many minutes at SF.

Northcyde,

Although our bench was not very good (or very consistent) at times, part of the consistency problem was because of Woody.

Yes, they were mostly veterans, but they never knew when they would come into the game, and they never knew if one good game would lead to PT in the next game, or even the next half.

Most Players like to have a routine, and under Woody, they didn’t have that. If Drew gives his bench more consistent PT, I think our bench will be better statistically.

But I also think that’s why the ASG need to sign 2 more quality bench guys (like Tolliver at backup PF), and another backup center.

Big Ray

July 18th, 2010
2:17 pm

I’ll say the bench issue was part Woodson, part bench.

I think Woody could have used Joe Smith more, but that’s just me. Maybe Joe was hurt or just couldn’t go, but he didn’t seem to have that issue when he DID hit the court. Mo Evans complained about a lack of minutes as well, but he wasn’t doing too good for a while there. However, when his minutes went up, so did his production, towards the end of the year. Chicken vs. egg….

On the flip side, RandMo was useless, as was Jason Collins (except that one game where he flustered Shaq for a couple of minutes). And re-upping Mario West was stupid as hell, especially when we jettisoned a young, hard-working forward in Othello Hunter. Zaza wasn’t himself most of the season. Jamal WAS the bench.

northcyde

July 18th, 2010
2:21 pm

Just for fun, compare that with Orlando. Same rankings coming from hoopsstats.com:

TEAM RANKINGS

OVERALL: #3

BACKCOURT: #9
FRONTCOURT: #3

STARTERS: #5
BENCH: #8

IN THE PAINT: #1
OUT THE PAINT: #12

PG OVERALL: #18
SG OVERALL: #4
SF OVERALL: #16
PF OVERALL: #15
C OVERALL: #1

INDIVIDUAL RANKINGS BY POSITION

PG: Nelson – #24 . . J. Williams – #50 . . A. Johnson – #65

G: Carter – #15 . . Redick – #37

SF: Barnes – #24 . . Pietrus – #44

PF: Lewis – #31 . . Anderson – #54 . . Bass – #60

C: Howard – #2 ( they have David Lee #1 ) . . Gortat – #56

******************

So look at their team. While we may have 3 players in the top 10 at a particular position, and they only have 1, the Magic have 11 of their 12 players that are in the top 60 at their position. That would indicate that just about everybody with the exception of Anthony Johnson, could at least be a reserve on every team in the NBA.

Contrast that with us. We only had 7 players in the top 60 at their respective position.

SEVEN

That’s why I talked about this bench all year. We just didn’t have the talent coming off the bench, to warrant some of those guy getting extended minutes. They were sorry, compared to the people they were going up against.

So if we don’t improve the depth of the team with quality players, then we HAVE to have our star players play at a high level. That means that JJ needs to move up into the Wade – Kobe group in efficiency, instead of being with the Ellis – Roy group.

That means that Smoove needs to move up at least to the Amare Stoudemire level, instead of being on the level just above David West, Marcus Camby, and Troy Murphy

That means that Horford needs to move up to Tim Duncan level, instead of being on the Brook Lopez – Bogut – Marc Gasol level.

Even if Teague improves his ranking next year, we could see Bibby slip significantly, if he’s still not in shape and his jumper is off. And we still have MAJOR depth issues at center.

Upgrade the team Sund. Learn how to properly use the data to see where the problems are.

C:

O'Brien

July 18th, 2010
2:36 pm

I remember Hubie Brown said that for a team to be successful in the playoffs, the team has to be able to run plays to get guys high percentage shots in the right spot on the floor.

And that spot, says Hubie, should be based on that player’s success during the year. What spot did he have the most statistical success. With Woody, all we had was ISOs.

Houston’s GM is a statistical analyst. Billy Beane in baseball uses a lot of statistics. But you wonder if the Hawks have a statistical analyst on staff.

So I hope Sund and Drew will look at statistics more (for both bench players and starters).

northcyde

July 18th, 2010
2:51 pm

Let’s do one more . . . the world champion LA Lakers

TEAM RANKINGS

OVERALL: #3

BACKCOURT: #5
FRONTCOURT: #3

STARTERS: #4
BENCH: #9

IN THE PAINT: #3
OUT THE PAINT: #5

PG OVERALL: #26
SG OVERALL: #2
SF OVERALL: #12
PF OVERALL: #6
C OVERALL: #4

*******************

INDIVIDUAL RANKINGS BY POSITION

PG: Fisher – #52 . . Farmar – #58 . . . ( which explains why they went out and got Steve Blake – #40 )

G: Bryant – #2 ( D-Wade #1 ) . . Brown – #48 . . Vujacic – #72

SF: Artest – #21 . . Walton – #65 . . Morrison – #68

PF: P. Gasol – #2 . . Odom – #15 . . Powell – #80

C: Bynum – #10 . . Mbenga – #83

*****************

While Laker fans may hate Odom and how he underachieves, it’s his versatility to play both SF and PF that is the icing on the cake for this team. Then you have Gasol, who can also play Center on a top 10 level, as well as PF. And of course, Kobe is the ultimate closer.

Otherwise, their team is just as weak as ours. But their star players are better than ours. Without the team upgrade, I guess this is the team we have to emulate, as far as where production comes from.

northcyde

July 18th, 2010
3:11 pm

O’Brien . . . you’d think that they have to have one. If not, ish, hire me for the damn job.

And to elaborate on what Hubie said. He said that it should be based on that player’s success vs the TOP 6 teams. The way Hubie broke that down, was excellent. He basically wanted to throw out what guys did against bad teams, and concentrate on what they did against the elite teams.

One more for the road . . . a partial look at the HEAT WORLD ORDER

PG: Chalmers – #53 . . Hasbrouk ( R ) – ??

SG: Wade – #1 . . Miller #11 ( he shot 48% from 3 last year )

SF: James – #1 . . Q. Richardson – #28 . . J. Jones – #64

PF: Bosh – #1 . . Haslem – #30

C: Big Z – #44 – Pittman ( R ) -???

That could be your top 11 right there for the Heat . . with them still possibly adding rookies Jarvis Varnado and the injured De’Sean Butler.

Their superstar players can play multiple positions, keeping at least one of them on the floor at all times.

If they have any weakness, it’s in the middle. I hope Shaq has too much of an ego to join them. Because if he joins that group, it’s a wrap.

northcyde

July 18th, 2010
3:13 pm

My bad . . I got carried away with the #1’s . . . Bosh was #3 at PF

Ramon

July 18th, 2010
3:13 pm

O’Brien, I know. I was just bored lol.

northcyde

July 18th, 2010
3:14 pm

LOL . . nevermind . . he WAS #1

O'Brien

July 18th, 2010
3:24 pm

northcyde,

I dont think Shaq will go to Miami. I think they can only pay him the minimum, plus they have already resigned Joel Anthony, signed Big Z, and are rumored to be re-signing Jamal Magloire. Also, as MC said, I think his bridges are burned with Pat Riley. Not mention Shaq’s ego.

Looking at your list though, Miami is going to be a beast with those players. Plus they have done a decent job of filling their bench.

Ramon,

I threw the idea out there of starting Mo Evans at SG, and JJ at SF. Evans played ok when given extra minutes, and he is more of a SG than he is SF. But the concern was having JJ spend all that time at SF.

Maybe thats where JJ will play (SF) in year 4 or 5 of his new contract, but for right now, he is a top 5 SG, and with Drew’s new offense, thats where he’ll be best suited.

northcyde

July 18th, 2010
3:35 pm

That’s who I forgot . . . Joel Anthony. He was their shot blocker anyway last year. He ranked #65.

I wonder if Varnado is even going to make that Miami team? They’ve made commitments to Pittman and Hasbrouck this week, but not yet to Varnado. If they let him go, I wouldn’t mind bringing him into training camp, to see if he can fill the backup PF spot.

O'Brien

July 18th, 2010
3:48 pm

northcyde,

The interesting thing to me, is it seems like some NBA teams can find an undrafted guy from overseas or from the D-League, or a second round pick, and they turn into decent contributors. Guys like Will Bynum, Anthony Tolliver, Joel Anthony, Anthony Morrow, some of the foreign guys that Spurs or Jazz or Phoenix might find.

But that does not seem to happen with the Hawks. Is it because we’ve been injury free, is it because Woody never gave our bench any confidence, is it because our bench players just havent been good.

northcyde

July 18th, 2010
3:55 pm

As for Teague . . I liked the way he’s responded since receiving the criticism after Game 2 when he made those comments. He’s played HIS game, which is to stay on the attack. He was a scoring PG in college, so that’s probably what he needs to look to do on the NBA level. Yes, he’ll have to defer to the vets, but he also needs to know when he has the advantage to go on the attack.

northcyde

July 18th, 2010
4:00 pm

O’Brien . . it’s probably a combination of all of that. But our scouting department is definitely suspect. I think sometimes they concentrate too hard on trying to fill a need, instead of just going out and getting someone who can ball.

New Day

July 18th, 2010
4:09 pm

Same rankings coming from hoops

Check that my mom just took a sampling of the nba hawks and compare them to the rest of the league.

I, like northcyde am search hard for somebody to make the hawks look good. Last year nobody ranked them in the top 8 nba teams and were ranked 5-9 in conference.

Keep in mind the lakers were #15 in offense last year and Woodson had his Hawks virtually tied with them @ 15, thats the bright spot. Woodsons Offense worked. The bad spot is the centerless hawks ranked 15 levels below he lakers for defense. The experts were right.

Here we go,

1 pg Bibby 17th/ teague 61th

2 sg JJ 4th/ J crawfod 10th

3 sf mw 23rd/ moe evans 46th

4 pf josh smith. 4th/ Joe smith 68th

5 c a ho / 17th/zaza/59th

Bottom line When the season begans the hawks will again be picked 5-9 seed and again they will be forecasted to be 1 and done. Reason? They did not address the teams to major weaknesses, Horford’s inability to stop any one defensively and Bibby aging/teague’s lack of NBA calibre mind or game, plus his extraordinary ability to turn the ball over. This team wont sell phillips out.

New Day

July 18th, 2010
4:12 pm

Joel Anthony. He was their shot blocker anyway last year. He ranked #65.

What did Horford Rank? T.S. says 28th is that true?

New Day

July 18th, 2010
4:18 pm

because Woody never gave our bench any confidence,

Is that true? Are grown men, veterans and seasoned pros in need of confidence for there ability? if Shaq were here would he need the coach to give him confidence so he could play better? LOL

Does any man have the power to give another man confidence? Isnt that something you have to have inside?

It just sounds to me like we are baby sitting grown men. You get paid millions to wait on the coach to give you confidence? Sounds like a copout and it sound like these arent championship material players.

More like the PTA little leagues.

dap01

July 18th, 2010
4:22 pm

Same Damn Thing: What did you contribute? What value added thought can you give to the NBA during the offseason when you team is doing nothing, while other teams are signing all of the players.
You call people out about using different names and you are obvious someone using the Same Damn Thing name. I bet you hear that alot from your boy friend.

cp

July 18th, 2010
4:41 pm

Big Ray I truly never understood getting rid of Othello.. He is playing well once again this summer while I doubt Mario is offered a contract from anybody….I hope Othello makes the Nuggets roster. Dude clearly put in the work last summer and improved his game, outplayed Mario the whole summer, made the team, then got waived to bring in Mario who has shown no improvement in his game..

O’Brien I think we might finally have a player from the second round in Sy. He is a lot better than I thought he would be. Another year overseas and we might have a nice contributor next season. Gladyr needs a lot of work. Plays hard but he really has to add some strength.

The game is at 6:30. I want to see how hard the bigs play because the way its looking they might have a legitimate chance to make the team.

O'Brien

July 18th, 2010
4:51 pm

cp,

Another thing I like about Sy is he payed the way for his own Hawks workout. That lets me know that he wants to be in the NBA. It will be interesting to see how he looks after one more year overseas.

That being said, does he have the potential to crack the rotation 6-10? (I havent watched a full summer game yet).

Hopefully somebody will post a link for the 6:30 game.

Samuel

July 18th, 2010
5:09 pm

Hubbie Brown NBA playoff record=.364

Rondo

July 18th, 2010
5:31 pm

Josh Boone anyone?

Melvin

July 18th, 2010
5:32 pm

OB/Northcylde,

If the Hawks are looking sign a young inexpensive vet for the league min the I agree with Cylde. Bring in Sean Williams… Yep, I cant believe I’m saying it but I’m watching him play now and he would be a better prospect than any player on the Hawks SL team…

Rondo

July 18th, 2010
5:34 pm

Alexander Johnson anyone?

Rondo

July 18th, 2010
5:37 pm

Alexander Johnson would be cheaper and better than Sean Williams.Alexander dominated in the nbdl last season.

bigdave

July 18th, 2010
5:41 pm

O'Brien

July 18th, 2010
5:54 pm

Rondo,

Some of us on here have mentioned Josh Boone before as a decent fit. He could play spot minutes at both PF and Center, so we could kill two birds with one stone. But he might be out of the Hawks price range.

Samuel,

Just because Hubie’s win percentage is low, does not mean he does not know how to analyze the game.

O'Brien

July 18th, 2010
5:56 pm

Another guy we can take a cheap flyer on is Earl Barron. He is 7′, 245 lbs, and played 7 games for the Knicks last year, during which he averaged 12 points, and 11 rebounds.

Brett

July 18th, 2010
6:00 pm

here is a cool article on Jamal Crawford and his early career growing up in Seattle. http://seattleballers.com/jamal-crawford-seattles-old-money-baller/

terrell

July 18th, 2010
6:06 pm

With role players like Korver and Reddick getting 6 and 7 mill a year, Marvin making 8 isnt looking so bad after all. If he improves, it’ll look even better.

Melvin

July 18th, 2010
6:08 pm

OB,

I thought I read that Earl Barron was going to re-sign with the Knicks?

O'Brien

July 18th, 2010
6:24 pm

terrell,

Although role players are getting paid, the thing is they do something well. In this case, Korver and Redick are very good shooters. But Marvin does not do anything well.

His defense is okay, but he is not a defensive stopper. He has good form on his stroke, but he misses a lot of open shots, and did not take many 3s. His rebounding os okay, but not great. Based on the stats northcyde posted, Marvin was ranked #22 for his position.

However, if he does improve (which is possible under Drew’s offense), then his value will be much better.

Melvin,

You might be right. But I still think if the Hawks are going to be cheap, take a flyer on a DLeague guy, or an undrafted guy, and give him a chance. Don’t sign a vet who is on his way out of the league, but just hanging on for a paycheck.

cp

July 18th, 2010
6:24 pm

Yea O’Brien yourself and I have been talking about Josh Boone since the trade deadline. He only made 2 million I believe last year. I think he is actually in our price range but I don’t know if he is on the radar but as you said he can play the pf and c position thus taking care of 2 problems. It makes too much sense for the Hawks to sign him though. They will probably bring back RandyMo.

Sean Williams would actually be another good fit and in our price range. You just have to hope he finally has his head on right and if he does its a low risk high reward type move.

Allofus

July 18th, 2010
6:27 pm

Hawks should go for Luke Schenscher of Trail Blaizers . With good coaching, he will be more than Pau Gasol

bigdave

July 18th, 2010
6:34 pm

Teague has found his floater and pull up game.. that will open up passing lanes..

cp

July 18th, 2010
6:38 pm

Teague and Crawford looking good early..

bigdave

July 18th, 2010
6:41 pm

bigdave

July 18th, 2010
6:47 pm

Mereo > Randmo.

cp

July 18th, 2010
6:48 pm

smh randymo just will not rebound

bigdave

July 18th, 2010
6:49 pm

Randolph doesnt box out.. man comes and knocks away the board from Davidson.. then fails to pick up penetrating guard. just lazy.

bigdave

July 18th, 2010
6:50 pm

look @ Mereo.. active on the offensive glass.. 2

bigdave

July 18th, 2010
6:53 pm

shot looks good Randolph..

O'Brien

July 18th, 2010
6:57 pm

Any love for patrick O’Bryant?

cp

July 18th, 2010
7:02 pm

Its sad when Patrick O’Bryant of all people is out muscling you for boards

bigdave

July 18th, 2010
7:03 pm

O brien..

7 footer who does not rebound..

O'Brien

July 18th, 2010
7:07 pm

Maybe Aminu is worth an invite to traning camp…

Big Ray

July 18th, 2010
7:08 pm

New Day ….and same ol’ BS.

I respect what Northcyde has to say. It actually makes sense and involves the whole picture, not some tainted version of what never was reality to begin with….

Big Ray

July 18th, 2010
7:14 pm

Tied at the half…

cp

July 18th, 2010
7:14 pm

Aminu should get a invite to camp

O'Brien

July 18th, 2010
7:22 pm

Rick Fox said defense, rebounding, and controlling the paint wins championships. So why havent the Hawks addressed those issues more than they have?

4 or 5 players in the top 10 at their positions is not enough given the statistics we have seen. Especially when other teams have 4 players in the top 10 as well.

Maybe we can find a diamond in the rough from one of the summer league guys

Big Ray

July 18th, 2010
7:26 pm

Dept. of Unintended Irony

July 18th, 2010
7:32 pm

“Bottom line When the season begans the hawks will again be picked 5-9 seed and again they will be forecasted to be 1 and done.”

9th seed? There’s a new one.

If they are 9th seed, who will they face in the first round?

O'Brien

July 18th, 2010
7:32 pm

Good Move from JC2.

Big Ray

July 18th, 2010
7:33 pm

Teague with the speed….

CP , I agree, Aminu should get an invite.

cp

July 18th, 2010
7:33 pm

Damn Teague is fast

Big Ray

July 18th, 2010
7:34 pm

Dept. of Unintended Irony

July 18th, 2010
7:32 pm
“Bottom line When the season begans the hawks will again be picked 5-9 seed and again they will be forecasted to be 1 and done.”

9th seed? There’s a new one.

If they are 9th seed, who will they face in the first round?

:lol: :lol:

O'Brien

July 18th, 2010
7:36 pm

Teague showed flashes of his quickness against NBA guys (unfortunately, he missed a lot of his floaters). I look forward to Drew pushing the tempo with these guys.

Big Ray

July 18th, 2010
7:41 pm

O’brien,

I think he needs to not just perfect hitting that floater, but also work on finishing at the rim in general. Nothing wrong with off-the-glass layups, and there are plenty of “short”-but-athletic guys who finish in the league like that. Of course, a reliable mid-range shot also changes things up rather well. It’s how Jason Terry has not only survived, but excelled at this level.

Big Ray

July 18th, 2010
7:44 pm

Man, I love that step-back jumper by Teague. He sets that up perfectly by being a threat to drive with that quickness of his. Hope to see that much more this season.

cp

July 18th, 2010
7:45 pm

Teague has been knocking down that jumper. That is a good sign

Big Ray

July 18th, 2010
7:45 pm

Dang, JT0 is on the attack….

O'Brien

July 18th, 2010
7:46 pm

Ray,

It will also help if he learns how to initiate the contact down low.

Teague with the step back jumper. And then gets the block on defense. And teague with another floater

bigdave

July 18th, 2010
7:46 pm

filth.

is that Jeff or Joe?

cp

July 18th, 2010
7:46 pm

You can tell Teague has been putting in work this summer. Dude is looking confident

Big Ray

July 18th, 2010
7:48 pm

Ohhhhhhh….JC2 nearly brought that monster dunk down!

cp

July 18th, 2010
7:48 pm

lol crawford thought he was Josh Smith on that one . Dude can get up a lot higher than I thought

bigdave

July 18th, 2010
7:48 pm

that would have been top 10..

good shot Mereo..

Jae Evolution

July 18th, 2010
7:48 pm

Oh man, if JC2 got that putback off his missed free throw I would’ve flipped that was almost insane.

bigdave

July 18th, 2010
7:50 pm

my advice for Teague would be to watch a lot of Rondo film.. they have similar skill sets.. equally athletic.. Rondo as an assortment of finishes around the rim 12 ft on in..

Melvin

July 18th, 2010
7:53 pm

Are the Hawks saving Pape for the regular season? Another DNP!!!

cp

July 18th, 2010
7:55 pm

Teague is looking good out there.

Big Ray

July 18th, 2010
7:55 pm

Yep, that IS what JT0 can do for the Hawks….hell, if you can “make” RandMo score, imagine him feeding JSmoove, The Boss, and the others?

cp

July 18th, 2010
7:56 pm

I think Sy got hurt again thats why he isnt playing.

Big Ray

July 18th, 2010
7:58 pm

Melvin,

Nah, he has an achilles issue.

Big Ray

July 18th, 2010
7:58 pm

Actually, Draftexpress.com says JC2’s max vertical was damn near 35 inches….that’s pretty good.

O'Brien

July 18th, 2010
8:00 pm

bigdave,

One thing about Rondo though, is he has really long arms. Another guy Teague can look at is Tony Parker.

Ray,

Exactly. Although the Hawks were near the top of the list in fast break points last season, Bibby does not have the speed or legs to push the ball like Teague does.

cp

July 18th, 2010
8:02 pm

I didnt know Craw had that vert. That is pretty good. Gotta say I like Davidson. He has shown a lot more than RandyMO

O'Brien

July 18th, 2010
8:05 pm

cp,

Almost everybody has shown more than RandMo. I hope Hawks do not invite him to camp (although I wont be surprised if they do).

Big Ray

July 18th, 2010
8:05 pm

LOL….Teague pulls a JSmoove on the T-Wolves

cp

July 18th, 2010
8:05 pm

I think Ive seen Teague block more shots than Marvin

O'Brien

July 18th, 2010
8:06 pm

Teague with the block. Gotta love his hustle on defense. He turned the ball over, but did not quit on the play.

Big Ray

July 18th, 2010
8:06 pm

I do NOT want to see RandyMo in camp. He was playing well for a second there before he ran into Wayne Ellington and nearly knocked himself out.

O'Brien

July 18th, 2010
8:07 pm

cp,

Marvin also gets his shots blocked by smaller guys.

Big Ray

July 18th, 2010
8:08 pm

Funny thing about max verticals is Teague’s is even higher than Crawford’s. His was measured at 36.5″

Trey

July 18th, 2010
8:08 pm

How long do you guys think it be before Teague becomes our starting PG?

cp

July 18th, 2010
8:09 pm

The Hawks being the Hawks they will let somebody else snatch up Aminu and bring back porkchop Collins

bigdave

July 18th, 2010
8:10 pm

O’brien..

Tony P is a hell of a finisher, however his jump shot and shot of the dribble has gotten more respectable. Teague has the ability to knock down shots so has his skill progresses i can see that.

i say Rondo b/c though physically they are built differently, they will be defended similarly.. due to like deficiencies and the tempo and scoring threats of both offenses. i just would like Jeff to observe how Rondo attacks and facilitates given his shooting limitations.

Tony P is a hell of a finisher, however his jump shot and shot of the dribble has gotten more respectable. Teague has the ability to knock down shots so has his skill progresses i can see that.

De'Andre

July 18th, 2010
8:10 pm

lol poor Collins. I think all I’ve heard about him all season are fat jokes. I guess he’s the team entertainment.

Big Ray

July 18th, 2010
8:10 pm

Talk about a high arcing shot…

bigdave

July 18th, 2010
8:11 pm

Crawford has a bit of an ole’ school edge to his game.. i like it..

cp

July 18th, 2010
8:11 pm

Lol yea O’Brien I dont think I have ever seen a guy with Marvins size get his shot denied by smaller guys more than Marvin. He also has trouble finishing over small guys. Dude is tall and long for nothing.

De'Andre

July 18th, 2010
8:12 pm

cp,

I’d like to see Aminu on the roster next season also. He could be a nice backup 4 for our bench. Also, since the ownership is so bent on saving money, it would be a cheap financial move as well.

Big Ray

July 18th, 2010
8:12 pm

Trey,

Hard to say, but I don’t think it will be immediate. Just a hunch. Teague is really sort of going through his “second” rookie year, in a way.

Trey

July 18th, 2010
8:15 pm

Big Ray,

I agree. I don’t think it will be immediate by any means. The fact that Bibby’s defensive liabilities are becoming more and more apparent might speed up the process of getting Teague a starting spot though. Also, LD seems to be a much bigger JT0 fan than Woody ever was.

Big Ray

July 18th, 2010
8:16 pm

Count me in on Aminu…

Big Ray

July 18th, 2010
8:18 pm

Trey,

Yeah, it seems that way. Woody was trying to win games and go places, Larry is perhaps under a little less pressure with Teague from that standpoint, but then….I could be wrong on that tip.

I’d agree overall though, and say that Larry is a bigger fan because he actually has an assertive offensive plan, and would like to pick up the pace. In order to do that, we really need Teague, not so much Mike Bibby.

Brian

July 18th, 2010
8:18 pm

It’s going to be interesting how things work out with Jordan Crawford next season. I didn’t expect him to play much at all given the abundance of guards at his position on the roster. However, based upon his performance this summer, he seems like the kind of guy who could force his way into the rotation pretty quick. For a rookie, he seems relatively fearless and plays with a great swagger. I could see him cutting into Teague’s minutes a bit next season. Either that, or Bibby’s minutes might start to decline more and more.

cp

July 18th, 2010
8:18 pm

De’Andre great points but we all know how slow our front office is to make moves. Other teams saw how well Aminu played and might offer him a chance to make their team before we do. Lets just hope Sund isn’t slow with this decision. I think its a no brainer to bring Aminu in. Like you said he can be a nice backup pf and he will be cheap. Nice fit if you ask me.

O'Brien

July 18th, 2010
8:20 pm

Trey,

Even if LD was not a JT0 fan, when you hear the owner say he thinks Teague deserved more PT, then it is probably in LD’s best interest to give Jeff the opportunity for more PT.

I am fine if Bibby starts. But his minutes should be very limited (no more than 20, unless he is on fire), and Teague should be able to earn 20 minutes or so every game. (JJ and Crawford will probably spend a few minutes running the offense).

As for Aminu, I definitely think he has earned an invite to camp.

Melvin

July 18th, 2010
8:30 pm

The one thing I really like about Teague and Jordan, they attack the basket. Far too many times last season, the Hawks settlet for jumpshots and I think part of that was due to lack of guys ability dribble drive. With those guys attacking the basket, it should open up higher percentage shots for other players….

bigdave

July 18th, 2010
8:34 pm

Melvin..

give a lot of credit to Woodson’s offense as well. with guys being basically stationary their defenders are easily in position to help. its kinda tough getting to the hoop on multiple defenders. i like the constant movement away from ball side that i’ve seen this summer.. i cant wait to see how the starters improve w/ in this system.

bigdave

July 18th, 2010
8:38 pm

those jump shots look a lot more tempting under those conditions..

Melvin

July 18th, 2010
8:43 pm

Hawks should use their Trade exception (and/or Mo Evans) with Minny for 2 of the 3 players (Corey Brewer, Ryan Hollins or Kosta Koufos)… Heck, take all 3 of those players….

ignition

July 18th, 2010
8:45 pm

JC2 has a lil D. Wade to his game…
If Teague continues to play like this then he mos def will supplant Bibby … Bibby would be a good spot up shooter on the wing tho. With a court of Teague, JC2, JC, Horford, & Smoove you will have an attacking offense..

Jody

July 18th, 2010
8:49 pm

I really liked what I say from both Teague and Crawford during the summer league. I wish there’s a way to ensure Crawford gets regular playing time this season because I really think he could help the team and he’s got genuine potential.

Jody

July 18th, 2010
8:56 pm

@ O’Brien

Rick Fox was spot on about what he said it takes to win a title. You would think after the way the Hawks were eliminated the past two seasons, they’d have figured it out.

cp

July 18th, 2010
10:43 pm

Well I just read that Jason Collins will be back next year. Why I have no freaking idea. Its hard to be a Hawks fan. I don’t like this at all. I know he is cheap and a big body but damn we saw last year that dude brings absolutely nothing to the table. After this move I seriously wouldn’t be shocked if we brought back the same damn team from last year sans Jordan Crawford. I guess RandyMo,Mario, and Joe Smith will be signing contracts soon. They fed us all this hype about bringing in vets and upgrading the roster and what do we get. We get Porkchop Collins. Can we please get a real owner in here damn. Is it that much to ask for to get players on the bench who can actually contribute.

cp

July 18th, 2010
10:44 pm

We traded our second rounder where we could have taken a big man to develop so we could bring Collins sorry out of shape azz back?. SMH

bigdave

July 18th, 2010
10:46 pm

cp.. a shame..

could’ve had my pic Gani Lawal..

gypsyjoe

July 18th, 2010
10:57 pm

I think that kid Alade Aminu did all that was asked and more. If anybody should get an invite to camp it should be him.

MsDee

July 18th, 2010
11:02 pm

Aminu & Hendrix are my 2 choices

Clyde

July 18th, 2010
11:03 pm

Sean Williams 16pts and 10 rebs

gypsyjoe

July 18th, 2010
11:15 pm

A list of players I think could help the Hawks:
Josh Powell
Kurt Thomas
Theo Ratliff
Damien Wilkins
Chris Hunter
Rodney Carney
Richard Jefferson
Matt Barnes
Anthony Tolliver
Will Bynum
Tim Thomas and Craig Smith we should be able to score 2 of these guys

rusty

July 18th, 2010
11:17 pm

if bibby starts this year we will look like we did last year.please no. i hope our guys can play like the summer league players play.they play fast & know how to share the ball. if we dont play craw2 a lot we are crazy,he has the makings of a superstar. we also need to sign aminue & hendrix,they are better than any one on our bench & will bring youth & toughness

nunna!!

July 18th, 2010
11:17 pm

@jody,
What does Rick Fox know anyway??
Even though the show has ended,he still “ain’t” figured out,TASHA MACK yet!!

P.S.”The Game”returns early 2011 with brand new episodes with the same writers and most of the cast!! YAY!!!!!! Love me some Mel,and Drew,And da sexy and shapely “Kelly Pitts”!!!

I would swirl with her!!!

Melvin

July 18th, 2010
11:17 pm

Look as if Jason Collins will take one of the three remaining spots. Now who will fill the last 2 spots

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/07/18/jason-collins-expected-to-re-sign-with-atlanta/

nunna!!

July 18th, 2010
11:24 pm

Melvin said:Look as if Jason Collins will take one of the three remaining spots. Now who will fill the last 2 spots..
——————————————————–
I kinda hate this move but one thing they may be looking at is his ability to be a better rebounder than Randmo,and the fact that he showed he has touch on his outside shots and can knock them down 12-13 feet and in..
Having that with added with the offense that LD is implementing then it could be a nice offensive move but with his size and the fact that we need a more defensive presence from the 5,makes it half good/half bad,if u asked me..
But overall,i hate it..

Najeh Davenpoop

July 19th, 2010
12:01 am

Sean Williams 9 fouls in 20 minutes

Najeh Davenpoop

July 19th, 2010
12:02 am

The irony of it all is that Jason Collins will get paid $1.22 million next year while Hassan Whiteside and Dexter Pittman will get paid about $500,000 next year.

The DASG and Rick Sund is such a bunch of incompetent morons it’s unbelievable.

cp

July 19th, 2010
12:04 am

Other than Jamal Crawford our bench stunk last year.. One would think that a smart front office would be trying to add pieces to improve that terrible bench. Instead of that approach the Hawks are bringing back one of the most ineffective players from said bench last year.. SMH just mind boggling the decisions this front office makes…….Collins will make more than the guy they would have drafted if they had kept the pick. The player they could have chosen would probably even be more effective than Collins. Another brilliant move by this front office this summer…..And they wonder why the fans wont fully get behind this team and support them.

UGA

July 19th, 2010
12:07 am

Does anyone on here remember a couple of our summer rosters a few years back, one of them had Raja Bell on it and another had Udonis Haslem. How nice it would have been to keep one of them……we may have a guy like that now on this roster.

MC said a few blogs back he thought Collins would be back and that he had lost a bunch of weight.

Najeh Davenpoop

July 19th, 2010
12:07 am

Aminu is an active player, but he is way too weak to help the Hawks at the center position. The Hawks are already deep enough at PF to where adding him isn’t going to make a huge impact. Teague and Crawford are the only players on the summer league team who are in a position to make an impact for the Hawks this year, and I liked what I saw from both of them.

cp

July 19th, 2010
12:09 am

Clyde print up some fire the ASG and Sund shirts. If the next move I hear is Mario or Morris I’m done with this team. This front office is not serious about making the Hawks title contenders. They are happy with the playoffs and quick exits. I wasn’t a fan of Woodson but damn he wasn’t the only problem . This roster needs changes but these idiots are happy with this core bullshid. I guess we should get ready for another year of we are happy with our core, a playoff appearance, a quick exit and another summer of this same crap.

UGA

July 19th, 2010
12:18 am

The list above is good also. Any of those 2 would be nice. Don’t think we’re getting RJ. I guess I’d want Kurt Thomas and Barnes or Wilkins.

cp

July 19th, 2010
12:19 am

UGA I actually think MC said that Collins had to lose weight so I think Collins is sitll out of shape . smh this move

joegypsy

July 19th, 2010
12:28 am

Thats true. Teague is a scrub. He has had a very mix summer playing in the scrub league. He posted only 2 decent games You’d expect more from a guy who was a rookie last year. Hes not going to help the hawks much. Sad. We were right on the verge of getting some where now its accept mediocrity. Really sad to see this follow the last four years.

Yes, theres not much to get excited about when it comes to the hawks. It will be interesting to watch the teams who made moves to improve.

Yes, you guys are right. Woodson did put on a very good offense when you consider only JJ and Jamal and maybe josh were capable of creating their own shots. The rest of the team waited on garbage baskets or begged to be set up.

ignition

July 19th, 2010
1:02 am

WTH is joegypsy posting.. Teague & Crawford looked good out there..
Need to stay on Teague to get him to continue to push the tempo..

cp

July 19th, 2010
1:05 am

joegypsy as hard as it is to believe but your post might even be dumber than the Collins signing. That was hard to top but somehow you managed to do it. Congrats… From your post its easy to tell who you are. Pathetic that you have to make up this many names to keep repeating the same bullshid

Clyde

July 19th, 2010
2:30 am

Jason Collins? I mean come on. I won’t be going to any games this year.

Clyde

July 19th, 2010
2:34 am

We got swept in the 2nd round last year and this year we will be coming back with the same team. Its hard times for Atlanta Hawks Fans.

northcyde

July 19th, 2010
2:43 am

Collins being brought back? That’s unbelievable. Might as well bring back Joe Smith and Mario too then.

That tells me that ownership blames EVERYTHING on Woody, and that Drew will fix everything that is wrong with this team. Collins is a good positional defensive center, but arguably the WORST offensive center in the game. He doesn’t score. He doesn’t rebound. He hardly does anything but play position defense.

Collins ranked 101st out of 103 centers in the league.

Hell . . as less optimistic as I was on the scrub centers that fell to the 2nd round of the draft, I’d definitely rather have them, than Jason Collins. Bringing Collins back is an epic fail.

vava74

July 19th, 2010
4:50 am

Demarcus Cousins last Summer League game:

D. Cousins C MIN27:08 FG1-12 3pts0-0 FT4-7 (+-)-30 orb0 drb6 trb6 ass0 fouls2 stls1 to5 blks1 ba1 pts6

Who wants to start bashing Cousins and say that he is a bust? Oh… right… that only works if the guy is on Hawks uniform… everyone else can have a bad game here and there…

OK… my bad!

drmaryb

July 19th, 2010
5:16 am

I hope Jason orders: a nutritionist, chef and a personal trainer to go with that
Deluxe Happy Meal. -smiles-

(*_*)

drmaryb

July 19th, 2010
5:39 am

I guess the ASKG & Sund didn’t see enough, (LBS not withstanding) of Jason Collins to make
a Player Impact Assessment on this guy?

However, this may not be such a bad idea to pull a measure of – Familiarity?,
from the old Bargain Bin. Provided Jason really does develop a sense of Pride about
himself and his game, and go ahead and hook up that: Nutrionist, Chef, Personal Trainer and get a
Rain – Check on that Deluxe Happy Meal!

Just maybe, Jason won’t be a bust – He’ll be a damned bust!

This is a quintessential example of paradoxical laziness and incompetence to find a damned serviceable big man and a contributory PG & SF to fill out this teetering team as I have ever seen in my lifetime.

(*_*). smdh

drmaryb

July 19th, 2010
5:57 am

Way Too Early

It is way too early, to be talking about Collins. But, I got my popcorn and sippy-up and about to check out som of the Hawks SL -vs- the Bucks? Before heading to Lifetime for a 5 mile pool run and
I promise you – I run harder than the Hawks bench.

I’m Out.
(*_*)

drmaryb

July 19th, 2010
6:02 am

*sippy-cup … (*_*)

drmaryb

July 19th, 2010
6:20 am

Jordan Crawford

Jordan might just be what we need to call this kid.
He has huge shoulders which emulate strength and power – near the basket.

Jordan is reminiscent of a young D-Wade. I know. .. I know, its just SL, but I’m talking about his physique and
potential upside. He may be THE steal of the drafta. Time will tell, but I see HEART.

He has been chosen, He came, He performed and his HEART has been – Measured:
He is not lacking.

(*_*)

Hawks Will Be 5th In East

July 19th, 2010
6:32 am

vava74

July 19th, 2010
7:22 am

Hawks Will…,

This article is pure RUBBISH. Let’s just focus on one excerpt:

“More, Johnson is not the type of clutch scorer that teams are able to build successful post-season runs around. Johnson does not have Kobe Bryant’s reliable shot, Paul Pierce’s penchant for tough game winners, or even Dwayne Wade’s never-say-die-attitude.”

Now look at these stats for 2009-2010:

http://www.82games.com/0910/CSORT11.HTM

AND NOTE HIS FG%, 3PT% and FT%. Note as well that he managed those stats with ONLY 20% of shots coming out of assists.

This means that, HE IS CLUTCH (obviously not at Lebron and Kobe levels – but who is?) with less ISO play, he is bound to improve.

Also note that the much lauded Durant has MUCH WORSE stats than JJ in the clutch.

Also note that these stats do not take into account JJ’s DEFENSE.

O'Brien

July 19th, 2010
7:30 am

From nbafanhouse.com, talking about Jason Collins;

But the Hawks like his locker-room presence, and his 7-foot, 255-pound frame provides plenty of size, if needed.

Raise your hand if you think Jason Collins is 255 pounds. However, if Jason loses weight, and stays in shape, maybe he can provide a decent 8 mpg (on defense).

But I would rather take a young D-League guy who is motivated, instead of a guy who can’t even stay in shape.

O'Brien

July 19th, 2010
7:33 am

I think if Jason loses the weight, and stays in shape, he can provide a decent 8 mpg (on defense). But I would rather take a D-League guy who is motivated, instead of a guy who can’t even stay in shape.

blind support

July 19th, 2010
9:08 am

My question hawk fans is how do we address the key areas of the hawks weakness at this point now that all the impact players are off the market?

Let be honest. Like him (apparently the loud few multi-named bloggers did not), or not woodson had the hawks at the threshold of the upper tier. Why sund felt it was better to regress and not build from the level of achievement escapes logic. The right thing to do would have been to let woodson continue has climb extend his contract and support him by acquiring the 2 key components clearly defined, predicted and confirmed resoundingly in the playoff. A real center and a point guard to relieve an expiring Bibby.

On most of the blog sites that dont have 4 or 5 guys using multi-blog names who attack and run off ,the people who disagree with them, you will find that in the past 2+ years hawks bloggers have been shouting, screaming for a center. I think most see that if Woodson had a starting quality center capable of shutting down the other centers, then the hawks compete well or get past the second round. Almost all of the preseason picks said the hawks would not go far because they lacked a center,choosing instead to use a power forward not capable of defending the basket. Please do beat me up, go beat up the experts who made that assessment, which proved to be on point.

Having said that lets get back to the question. The hawks did nothing to address the 2 glaring deficiencies. Are they destined to repeat the same scenario as they have the past 2 years? Or by following Sund philosophy of using power forwards at the 5 spot for speed predestine to the same results of the past 2 years?

I for one am glad for the emergence of Crawford II who clearly out shone teague (who got more press) in the summer league. I dont think we can blame or credit Woodson for the will or the hard work Crawford II put in. Its a “want to ” thing. Its time to stop making excuses for teague, hes not the kind of guy you want running a championship contending team. Crawford II is clearly better with out the babying and excuse making, cop-outs.

Ill go on record as saying since we did not acquire a starting center we will not get past the 2nd round again this year. Strange how when you continue to do the same thing you get the same results.

I do however think we can improve at the point if we move crawford II up the charts behind Bibby and by the end of the year hell be ready, with out the excuses or cop-outs, (or turnovers). Still we wont get far without a starting quality center. We wont see 53 wins for a long time, and we definitely wont see out Phillips Arena any time soon… unless Ludacris shows up.

speaking of Ludacris,

This is to the ASG featuring Sund

http://www.last.fm/music/Ludacris/_/Ho

blind support

July 19th, 2010
9:14 am

correction

Or by following Sund philosophy of using power forwards at the 5 spot for speed predestine to the to win a world championship

wont see philips sell out any time soon.

wordsmithtom

July 19th, 2010
9:17 am

blind support, clearly the enforcemet power of a backup center has not been addressed. But, I could make the case that poor perimeter defence and even poorer ball movement had more to do with 2nd round losses than lack of a power center. Craw 2 could make a difference, even if Teague is still a work in progress.
It is my belief that this team was built to run, yet Woodson wanted half court play. Old school without the talent for Old School. LD comes in with a history of “run and gun” and calls for motion. I think you’ll see more of a West Coast style offence where classic bigs aren’t needed.

Further, if he plays his bench, the bench is more apt to be ready come spring. Setting a “no layup” policy is a step in the right direction.

I’m not giving up because we haven’t added another big. We didn’t use the bench bigs we had last year. Run and gun…let’s get it done.

nobody

July 19th, 2010
9:17 am

What has Jason Collins done to earn a roster spot? I thought that was the point of this whole Proffesional Sports thing. To be on a team because you have earned it. Aminu has earned it, but I bet he will be playig in the D-League again

blind support

July 19th, 2010
9:40 am

wordsmithtom I see your view. We both agree that Crawford can help us at the point and teague is a work project.

Im from the west coast and we definitely believe in having centers, In fact, all the lakers championship teams have had great centers. Dont get it twisted. You dont win championship with out 1

You dont get past the second round of the play offs with out a half court game and you cant play the half court game with out a center. Run and gun is good when you are the youngest most athletic team but teams young and more athletic will beat you at that game. Run and gun is not an effective strategy for the later rounds of the playoffs when the half court game is the game.

Bigs is an improper term. positions are numbered 12345 for a reason. Big is a term usually used by some one without understanding the game. At the 5 position you have clearly defined roles, which if we understood we would compete or get past the second round.

O'Brien

July 19th, 2010
9:42 am

nobody,

Sund said the Hawks would address their needs with free agent veterans. Jason is a veteran.

But I agree with you. They should have given somebody else a chance. The interesting thing to me is they did not even wait to see who else would be available. This lets me know that they really wanted Jason. Maybe he will fail the physical.

Northcyde,

Will Drew be an upgrade over Woody? I think so. Will the players be better under Drew? I think so. But if the ASG thinks Woody was the only problem, I think they are in for a rude awakening. We need quality depth, and we need our existing players to step up consistently.

Ken Strickland

July 19th, 2010
9:51 am

It’s truly amazing to see how some of our fans think, or should I say fail to think, when it comes to what they want or feel. We have the WOODY LOVERS who are still crying, but not as loudly, about Sund and the ASG not rehiring MWoodson. They feel the team messed up by not rehiring the same HC that led the team to the 3rd seed in the East, with 53 wins, and the 2nd rd of the playoffs.

Yet, most of these same WOODY LOVERS are now complaining about Sund and the ASG’s decision to bring back basically the same team, or the same 9 core players, that were directly responsible for us finishing 3rd in the East with 53 wins, and taking the team to the the 2nd rd. WHERE’S THE LOGIC?

As far as signing a starting quality is concerned, I think Sund and the ASG have decided to wait until the trade deadline. That’s when the centers who decided not to opt out of the final yr of their contracts, like TChandler or JPryzbilla, might become available, and at a much cheaper price. By then, we’ll also have an idea what we need most, as far as PG, SF or center.

We should also have a good idea about what we have in SG Jordan Crawford, after seeing what he can do against NBA caliber talent. His performance to that point could determine whether we trade Jamal Crawford at the trade deadline or wait until after the season.

I don’t think we’ll suffer any sudden collapse, as some of our more emotional and less knowledgeable fans seem to think, with Zaza as our primary backup center. After all, we managed to do pretty good last yr with him in that role. Starting JTeague at PG, and getting more production out of MWilliams, will certainly help improve the teams overall OFF and DEF. We all saw Zaza and Horford do a good job of carrying the load @ center for the entire season last yr, We can certainly expect them to be able to carry the load until the trade deadline this yr.

lewis

July 19th, 2010
10:02 am

Collins is a good positional defender if he can get in shape, I just don’t see why we keep having to give guys 1.2 million a year to sit on the bench for weeks at a time. Why re-sign this guy when we know his job is to warm the bench? If Randolph Morris gets re-signed i’m truly done.

Bud Lite

July 19th, 2010
10:07 am

*By then, we’ll also have an idea what we need most

?

We already know. Where have you been the last two years? Every body knows. Opposing coaches know. Who dont know?

i_am_soulstar

July 19th, 2010
10:08 am

Deep in the backcourt, shallow in the front. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Fried Chicken

July 19th, 2010
10:13 am

What we need is 4 more power forward then no other team will have any!:-(

SteveW

July 19th, 2010
10:19 am

So 2 spots left to fill – 1C and 1PF or PG – let’s see – Shaq or Kwame at C? Anthony Tolliver or that Clips back-up at PF? Rafer “no-show” Alston if we go point.

Hope Jason is a good locker room guy – they say Joe Smith is one of the best in the NBA – still didn’t keep Josh from crying or JJ from quiting in the 2nd round.

And JJ and LeBron did quit in the 2nd round – let’s see – a knee injury playing hard in the last year of his contract would have cost JJ about 80m. LeBron only about 45-50m -most of us would have quit too.

Fried Chicken

July 19th, 2010
10:20 am

2 mo point guards and 4 mo power forwards. That’ll teach em

:-(
:-(
:-(

:-( :-( :-(

SteveW

July 19th, 2010
10:22 am

I was not a Woody hater, but the team had quit listening to him in the 2nd round of the playoffs – and he did hate on rookies instead of developing them, so he probably needed to go. Wouldn’t be surprised if he turns into a top 10 NBA coach one day though.

Fried Chicken

July 19th, 2010
10:33 am

Wouldn’t be surprised if he turns into a top 10 NBA coach one day though.?

Coach of Year voting- 2009/2010
Coach (Team) Votes: 1st place 2nd place 3rd place Points
Mike Brown (Cavaliers) 55 21 17 355
Rick Adelman (Rockets) 13 24 14 151
Stan Van Gundy (Magic) 13 20 25 150
Nate McMillan (Trail Blazers) 15 14 10 127
George Karl (Nuggets) 11 16 14 117
Jerry Sloan (Jazz) 9 9 6 78
Erik Spoelstra (Heat) 2 8 19 53
Mike Woodson (Hawks) 1 3 3 17
Phil Jackson (Lakers) 1 3 3 17
Doc Rivers (Celtics) 1 2 4 15
Vinny Del Negro (Bulls) 1 1 1 9
Larry Brown (Bobcats) - 1 3 6
Scott Skiles (Bucks) - - 1 1
Tony DiLeo (Sixers) - - 1 1
Rick Carlisle (Mavericks) - - 1 1

2008/09
Coach 1st 2nd 3rd Pts

Mike Brown, Cleveland 55 21 17 355

Rick Adelman, Houston 13 24 14 151

Stan Van Gundy, Orlando 13 20 25 150

Nate McMillan, Portland 15 14 10 127

George Karl, Denver 11 16 14 117

Jerry Sloan, Utah 9 9 6 78

Erik Spoelstra, Miami 2 8 19 53

Mike Woodson, Atlanta 1 3 3 17

Phil Jackson, L.A. Lakers 1 3 3 17

Doc Rivers, Boston 1 2 4 15

Vinny Del Negro, Chicago 1 1 1 9

Larry Brown, Charlotte — 1 3 6

Scott Skiles, Milwaukee — – 1 1

Tony DiLeo, Philadelphia — – 1 1

Rick Carlisle, Dallas — – 1 1

Fried Chicken

July 19th, 2010
10:36 am

-09/10 (correction)

Coach, Team 1st 2nd 3rd Pts
Scott Brooks, Oklahoma City 71 39 8 480
Scott Skiles, Milwaukee 26 54 21 313
Nate McMillan, Portland 9 9 35 107
Jerry Sloan, Utah 10 9 21 98
Alvin Gentry, Phoenix 4 5 11 46
Larry Brown, Charlotte 1 2 12 23
George Karl, Denver 1 1 3 11
Rick Adelman, Houston - 2 1 7
Mike Woodson, Atlanta - 2 1 7
Lionel Hollins, Memphis - - 6 6
Stan Van Gundy, Orlando 1 - - 5
Mike Brown, Cleveland - - 2 2
Rick Carlisle, Dallas - - 1 1
Erik Spoelstra, Miami - - 1 1

i_am_soulstar

July 19th, 2010
10:47 am

If Teague can defend the other point guards in the league, the Hawks will instantly be a better playoff team next year. But with all the other teams in the East improving, who knows if it’ll matter.

Since Marvin Williams apparently isn’t going anywhere, hopefully he’ll thrive in Larry Drew’s system. It could make all the difference if the Hawks come in strong at all 5 starting positions. And I’m sure that Sund is hoping that Jordan Crawford plays so well that he makes Jamal Crawford expendable and the Hawks are able to re-up Al Horford and pick up a quality front court player with the space created by Jamal Crawford coming off the books.

Quality depth is still an issue that will not be addressed this season. What happened to using the 3 million from the #31 pick to pay the luxury tax? They’re so full of it.

I’m sure other owners wish they had a roster with a 6th man of the year, and 3 all-star caliber players. Too bad the ASG won’t sell the team to someone who knows what to do with it.

Ken Strickland

July 19th, 2010
10:49 am

I don’t see a problem with us resigning JCollins. Some of you desperately wanted us to overpay and/or trade away a starter for Shaq, just because of his physical presence. Well, JCollins is a physical presence, even if he’s lost weight. He actually did an excellent job against DHoward in the playoffs. But the REF’s gave Howard every benefit of the doubt against us, as compensation for his whining and crying to the league about getting into foul trouble and not being allowed to bully the Hornets.

I still think the Hawks will make a move at the trade deadline, and JCollins is a very cheap alternative to Shaq. The fact that his locker room presence was given as a reason for resigning him is an indication to me why Shaq was never a serious consideration. We will now have 11 players on our roster under contract(JTeague, JJ, Marvin, Smoove, Horford, JA and JO Crawford, MEvans, MBibby, Zaza and JCollins).

With LDrew at the helm, and with us now having 10 players from last yrs roster under contract, the Hawks will still be much improved over last yrs team. No backup center can do more for this team than HC LDrew and assistant LConner, and their willingness to implement an actual OFF and DEF system. The fact that LDrew is willing to address last yrs issues of poor production from our PG and SF positions will be a big improvement over Woodson’s unwillingness to do anything at all.

If we can avoid the injury bug like we did last yr, I’m predicting the Hawks will win between 57-60 gms this yr.

Sautee

July 19th, 2010
10:57 am

Truth-serum (Blind Support)

Take that racist B.S. and stick it where the sun don’t shine. There’s no place for that junk here. Please don’t turn this into a joke like DLed’s silly blog.

Use your vocabulary. Find a way to express yourself that doesn’t need race baiting.

I have faith that you can do this.

terrell

July 19th, 2010
11:22 am

I’d take Porkchop for a mill over Shaq for 6-8 mill any day of the week!

terrell

July 19th, 2010
11:25 am

Why are you 7ft lovers crying about the Collins signing? After all, he’s a 7ftr. I’m sure will use him better than you know who did.

terrell

July 19th, 2010
11:25 am

I’m sure LD will use him better thn you know who did.

Clyde

July 19th, 2010
11:28 am

Ken did you really post that? Please tell me that was a fake that posted under your name.

“If we can avoid the injury bug like we did last yr, I’m predicting the Hawks will win between 57-60 gms this yr.”

Really?

Mike is back

July 19th, 2010
11:35 am

@OB, I agree with you on Collins. I know if you are a Hawks fan hearing the name Collins isn’t going to excite ya…however if he does comes back in shape…which was part of the stimulation…if not mistaken. He would be a good vet Big that has a lot of playoff experience…which would be beneficial to a young team like the Hawks.

In the limited time he was on floor…he played with savvy and a demonstrated a high IQ for the game. So Collins isn’t the popular pick…however, it ain’t as bad as it sounds. Neither Joe nor Collins got much burn from Woody…so it would be premature to discount what their worth would be in LD’s new system where you run traditional sets, and the Center, and PF are evolved in a lot of pick and role.

@Hawks gloomy detractors, I like Kurt Thomas too…and still feels after Shaq gets finished bluffing…he will see that his options are limited…if he wants to play for a top contender…then the Hawks name could come back into the picture.

I think there will be another vet Big added to go alone with Collins…it could be Thomas or Shaq…who knows. It not as bad as it sounds. Forget Woody… he is gone …and his system is gone…No need harping on the past…its time to look forward.

We could still invite Aminu and Hendix to camp…cuz I think those two has demonstrated a level of hunger and desire…that you are just not going to get out of RandMo. I would definitely like to see Aminu and Hendrix invited to camp. Wouldn’t mind seeing Glider too. Mario and RandMo spots should be open competition for some new blood…I’m sure the coaches have seen who were the impact players during summer league play…No need to bring back RandMo or Mario.

There are still some opportunities available to improve the roster…its not all gloom and doom. If the thought of Teague and Crawford playing with likes of JJ,Josh, Al, and Marvin didn’t get ya excited about next season…som wroooong. lol

Samuel

July 19th, 2010
11:50 am

Clyde,
You turning on “Ya Boy” Ken. What’s up, don’t you buy in to the “Woody was the only problem theory”. By that logic, we should surpass 53 wins and win a second round series. After all, we have the highest paid “PLAYA” in the league, a new coach with a “FANCY” new offense, a speedy new JTO as our QB and we just resigned our “CORE” which includes Duck and Pigfoot. What’s your problem man.

vava74

July 19th, 2010
12:02 pm

Ken Strickland

July 19th, 2010
9:51 am

Co-sign wholeheartedly!

northcyde

July 19th, 2010
12:04 pm

Half of you didn’t even know who Jason Collins were before last year. That dude has always been nothing more than a scrub. Bringing him back isn’t trying to make the team better. And even though we were a 50+ win team, Sund’s goal should always be to make us better, not keep the status quo.

Even the Lakers added Artest last summer, after winning a title with a younger guy like Ariza. Boston even added Rasheed Wallace. Even teams that didn’t have successful post-seasons at least tried to upgrade the squad.

Even a modest upgrade would’ve been appreciated by the fans. We need to acquire at least one guy who can challenge the top 8 or 9 for a spot in the rotation. Our bench has too many questionmarks on it, to NOT try to upgrade it

LOL @ wanting Collins over Shaq . . . child please. If we had the money to pay for Shaq, this wouldn’t even be an issue.

vava74

July 19th, 2010
12:05 pm

Samuel,

We won 53 games with a guy Clyde wanted out for more than a year with his “FIRE WOODY” sign offs… now, simply because we have not invited Sean Williams to play with us he doesn’t believe we can improve?

His Clyde already printing his “FIRE DREW” T-shirts?

O'Brien

July 19th, 2010
12:14 pm

Ken S,

Woody was a big problem, but not the only problem. And for a 53 win team, we have too many unknowns with the players.

What’s the backup plan if Teague struggles? What if Marvin does not improve? What if Horford regresses?

And like you said, what about injury? If Al gets hurt, are you comfortable playing ZaZa 34 mpg and Collins 14 mpg? If Josh gets hurt, who fills in at PF?

ASG has not addressed the quality depth issue, and that could come back to bite us.

drmaryb

July 19th, 2010
12:20 pm

NorthCyde

Said “child please”. I love it, and would like to add: “bump that”.
Some Ole’ Skool flavor for your ear! Ha!

Ernest

July 19th, 2010
12:21 pm

Good posts by Ken Strickland! It is refreshing to see analysis without the emotion and looking at the facts. Building a team is not like selecting stars for a video game. How the pieces will mesh together must be factored in if the ultimate goal is to win a championship.

Many thought the Hawks would win the championship in the late 80’s after we acquired Reggie Theus (for Randy Whitman) and Moses Malone (for Tree Rollins). On paper, we were definitely one of the most talented teams. What most fans forget is that ‘team chemistry’ plays a vital role in success. While Randy and Tree were not as physically talented as Reggie and Moses, they knew they roles on the team and maximized their talents within the team concept. For those who don’t remember, that team got swept by Milwaukee in the playoffs, a team the Hawks swept during the regular season.

Yes there are some teams that have more talented players now but the Hawks are one of the leaders with chemistry within their core. Additional pieces are needed but we shouldn’t go back to winning less than 50 games next season.

Sautee

July 19th, 2010
12:35 pm

LOL at thirty-something northcyde calling sixty-something Ken “child”.

Have some respect for your elders sonny!

vava74

July 19th, 2010
12:37 pm

Someone pointed out, very sharply, one of these days, that JJ REDICK – who averaged 9,2 ppg last year – will cost Orlando next year almost the same that JJ will be costing us.

His salary is completely above the luxury tax, so it is multiplied by 2.

19 million / 3 years = 6,33 million per x2 = 12,66 million for a bench player and, to be honest, I don’t think that the Magic have the makings of an NBA champion and in spite of Howard, are a perfectly beatable team since they depend so much from the 3 and that simply does not work well in the playoffs if you play really good D.

drmaryb

July 19th, 2010
12:39 pm

Ernest

Co-Sign it & put it in the Bag!
(Esp. The props to Mr. Strickland the War Veteran)

(*_*)

vava74

July 19th, 2010
12:47 pm

OB,

I have always enjoyed your posts and they have been consistently good read but you and Big Ray are overreacting like kids who did not get the christmas presents you wanted.

“What’s the backup plan if Teague struggles? What if Marvin does not improve? What if Horford regresses?

And like you said, what about injury? If Al gets hurt, are you comfortable playing ZaZa 34 mpg and Collins 14 mpg? If Josh gets hurt, who fills in at PF?”

Common!!! Bibby is still a serviceable player and if Teague struggles we will try and make a move. Why stock up with players who will cost money and will not be used?

We should get a third string PG but I honestly believe that there are very few cost-benefit options which are MINIMALLY acceptable out there. So, if any, we should wait and see how things progress.

If Marvin does not improve, his overall contribution is still positive since his D is always pretty good and although undersized Mo is an acceptable option as his stats, when called to start, prove.

What if Horford regresses? WTF!! What if the moon falls out of orbit or the sea level wipes out NO with whole Hornets team in it??

What if Al or Josh gets hurt? That “what if” question can be made to almost every team with the exact same answer! Who knows!

Phoenix had great bench contribution from Dudley, Amundson and Dragic, three guys who would have been MURDERED IN THIS BLOG if any of them had been signed by us before last year.

Settle down. Ken is covered with reason.

bigdave

July 19th, 2010
12:53 pm

“I would’ve never called up Larry, called up Magic, and said .. hey lets play on one team. In all honesty I was trying to beat those guys. Im a competitive guy and I like playing against competitive players. Things are different now”

-Michael Jeffrey Jordan

Ernesta

July 19th, 2010
12:55 pm

! It is refreshing to see analysis without the emotion

LMAO

KILL Woodson!

bmaryb

July 19th, 2010
12:56 pm

Nice post ernesta. that was over the top emotional reaction with no facts

cp

July 19th, 2010
1:00 pm

I rarely agree with northcyde but he is correct. The plan this summer was to upgrade the bench. Please explain to me how Collins is an upgrade? Even if he is in shape the dude is a terrible player. Did you guys see him play at all in his career? I’m willing to bet even under LD he wont be any better than last year even if he is in shape which I even doubt he does that. I’m sorry but I’m not buying what this front office is selling. They are pretty much re painting a hooptie and trying to sell it to us as if its new. Yea we won 53 games last year but I guess some of you are over looking the fact that other teams around us have improved and the only thing we have done is sign Porkchop Collins. ……Josh Smith and Horford have been asking for help inside all summer and this is the best we give them? And I’m really baffled as to how anyone could think Collins is a good signing…..Spare me that good position defender argument. I don’t care if he is a good locker room guy I want a big who can defend the paint or at least be a good rebounder and Collins does neither…..

Rufus1

July 19th, 2010
1:02 pm

ASG savvy, not Cheap

As a small business owner I look at cost vs pay. I pay you 20 thousand a year, but you cost me 27 thousand( i.e, health insur and others)

Brandon Hayward Pay 11mil a year…. Cost 22mil a years (11mil Lux tax)

JJ Reddick Pay 7.5mil a year….Cost 15mil a year

Jermaine O’neal Pay 5.8mil a year….Cost 11.6mil a year

Joe Johnson Pay 20mil a year…..Cost without Joe (attendance about 7000 a night and wins about 35)
With Joe about (attendance about 16000 a night and 50plus wins)
9000 people spending on average $60, over 41 games = $2,2140,000….Net profit = 2,140,000 Gross Rev.

Joe will make about 16mil his first season, about a 6mil profit.

http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance

So teams spend there money foolishly and still they don’t win.( Mavs and Magic)…These teams spent a lot more money to be called losers, than the Hawks.

PS. These figures do not included the playoffs 6 games and increase cost of advertising for a good team.

Thanks Vava for the compliment on the other blog.

Ernesta

July 19th, 2010
1:03 pm

Samuel excellent points. This team has to win a World Championship or at least make the finals to be consider a success. Considering we move a top10 coach for his assistant. The 13th rated offense now has to reach top 8. We must win 55 games or better. No excuses.

Rufus1

July 19th, 2010
1:03 pm

Correction…$22,140,000 Gross Rev and 2,140,000 net Profit

Blatant

July 19th, 2010
1:07 pm

Josh has not been asking for inside help. That was horford who in one article said he wanted to go back to playing power forward so the hawks could get a real center and then he asked for help saying the hawks needed more of a defensive 5 than he could give them. Blatant

Truth-Serum

July 19th, 2010
1:14 pm

blind support I get a lot more credit than I deserve. I read your blog and think you are spot on! People like to minimize the people who disagree with them and conveniently lablel them ‘T.S’ It beat having to be responsible!

Good post BTW. Dont let these buzzards run you off. Yeah they will paint you as a hater if you produce stats that diffuse their premises. They have no where else to turn.

Good Post.

Truth-Serum

July 19th, 2010
1:19 pm

“LOL at thirty-something northcyde calling sixty-something Ken “child”.

He meant mentally.

Fundamentals

July 19th, 2010
1:25 pm

Collins is only a good signing if we actually use him. How can you crucify a kid who never got burn? Could Dwight Howard guard Dwight Howard after sitting basically 88 games without burn? Oh yeah, put him in at a clutch moment in a big time game. Would he have the immediate footwork, stamina and quickness to stay in front of himself? Really? Honestly, what do you think?

Collins is a big with a very big body who can clog the middle. If we have a clause in his contract that says he’ll be in shape we need to hold him to it. Once in camp he needs to be pushed and he needs to be maintained. Best way to do that is to actually use him, make him work, keep him in shape. If we would’ve done that last year with Joe Smith and Collins we would’ve had two really nice pieces to help. Instead we left them to rot.

I loved Joe Smith. I though the did a great job, but would you have been ready to play in either man’s shoes? I think not. No one could, not even Dwight Howard.

If we sign the pieces – USE THEM! – if not, let them go elsewhere and sign young kids who could benefit from just sitting on the bench and practicing. At least marginal young talent has enough hope to play one day that they might stay in shape and ready for their moment. Collins had his a long time ago. He needs minutes or he needs a new team!

O'Brien

July 19th, 2010
1:26 pm

vava,

As constructed, i think the Hawks will be competing for home court advantage in the first round.

But a quality bench can make a big difference between us being a 4th seed and losing 4-1 in the second round, or being a 3rd seed and getting to game 7 in the second round.

Right now, I dont think we have a quality bench. All our depth is at one position. SG. Sure, we upgraded with Drew, but I dont think that will be enough to beat Miami, Orlando, or Boston in the playoffs.

If the ASG wants to give Drew the best chance at succeeding, why not give him as much ammunition as possible?

atl10

July 19th, 2010
1:32 pm

Collins will re-sign with Atlanta
9:46
AM ET
Jason Collins | Hawks TopEmail

FanHouse reports backup center Jason Collins is expected to re-sign with the Hawks.

When he signs it will be for a one-year, veteran’s minimum deal.

Collins only averaged 0.7 points and 0.4 rebounds last season, but is seen as a good locker-room presence, which why he’ll be retained. The Hawks also need

cp

July 19th, 2010
1:39 pm

Actually Josh Smith did say in a recent interview that him and Horford would like some help down low… I think it was in one of MC’s blog. So yea even Josh wants help down low……. I like LD but some of you are fooling yourselves if you think he can do anything with Collins. LD is not a miracle worker. Collins has always been sorry so I don’t see how a new coach will help him. I’m starting to wonder if some of you have seen this dude play. Yea he has a big body but that is about it…. He cant rebound, doesn’t block shots, doesn’t make shots, cant run the floor, and is out of shape. So please tell me what is he good for other than being a nice guy.

Truth-Serum

July 19th, 2010
1:52 pm

cp blogs dont count as sources. If you have a source of Josh making such a statement would you be so kind as to post the link? Im not saying he did not say that or that its made up to take pressure off horford, Id just like to read it for myself.

Blatant

July 19th, 2010
2:10 pm

LD is not a miracle worker. Collins has always been sorry so I don’t see how a new coach will help him

Same thing happened to Woodson. He wasnt given excuses for what he had to work with Neither will Woody II. Championship or burst!

dap01

July 19th, 2010
2:15 pm

Collins could be a help to us, but look at the way he reported to us last year. He could not even play for a while because he was so out of shape.
He ended the year out of shape. That tells everyone about how professional he is.

He was profoundly out of shape. Whether he played or not, how could someone who makes his living as an athlete possibly be grossly out of shape.

Next point: I have been extremely critical of the lack of a good offseason by the hawks. Perhaps I should reserve judgement until Sund has a chance to address our needs through trades. That would be a wise move before passing judgement on the Hawks as being a poorly run organization.

But the management does not exactly have history on its side. One misstep after another.

And so far, they are quilty of lying.

O'Brien

July 19th, 2010
2:18 pm

Truth,

I don’t remember if Josh said it, but Horford has been quoted. From MC’s “catching up again with Al Horford” blog.

“We need to get another big guy, another center, that’s able to help myself and Josh out,” he said. “We need to have someone to come in and have an impact. I think that is the position we need if we want to be any type of contender in the East.”

O'Brien

July 19th, 2010
2:22 pm

I wonder if Collins is the kind of impact center al horford had in mind.

O'Brien

July 19th, 2010
2:29 pm

Truth,

This is Josh Smith, quoted on the Atlanta hawks camp chatter blog;

“To have somebody that can be down there and be strong and dominant, somebody that is going to rebound and finish around the bucket and catch the ball. Me and Al can take care of the rest.

We could use a little more help, a little more depth. I think we do extremely well with a lot of the bigs in the league. We seem to struggle with guys like Dwight and . . . just pretty much Dwight. We need somebody who can help us with that if we have to face him in the playoffs again.”

Fundamentals

July 19th, 2010
2:31 pm

Collins definitely isn’t the impact Horford had in mind. They’re going to go cheap, we’re not going to get anything. No Shaq, No Barnes, No Brown, No Thomas, No Sy this year and plenty of the same.

Only thing we can claim is we have a true test ready to employ to see if LD can get more than Woodson did out of the same crew. No other way to spin it.

Fundamentals

July 19th, 2010
2:34 pm

Who can handle Dwight? My guess is look for a young 7′ big full of energy. We need D, rebounds, fast footwork and tons of energy. Shaq and Collins aren’t going to cut it.

Dan's Dickau

July 19th, 2010
2:57 pm

I’m with Mr. Strickland. 60 wins is absolutely a reasonable estimate.

Rondo

July 19th, 2010
2:57 pm

The hawks would have beaten the magic or would have made it interesting if they played better perimeter defense and had an more aggressive offense.Remember when the C’s had the hawks number.What happened the hawks got better.The hawks will play better next season against the magic.The Heat are going to come out blazing against the league because they have something to prove so expect them to win 60 games.Thats the only team i expect the hawks to have match up problems with.

Rondo

July 19th, 2010
3:12 pm

One thing that the hiring of larry drew and asg,sund choosing to bring back the same team proves, is that L.D. stabbed woddy in his back and went over woodys head and complained to management about him. Did he have his reasons in doing so? And will he prove himself right about woodson? Tune in next season to see for yourself fanatics! Same hawk station, same hawk time, same hawk season? Who knows….But like Grandma says “Time Will Tell”

hawks_4_life

July 19th, 2010
3:14 pm

SOME RETARD ON REALGM THINKS THE NUGGETS ARE GOING TO TRADE US MELO FOR JOSH AND MARVIN WITHIN THE WEEK. TOO FUNNY!!!

Ken Strickland

July 19th, 2010
3:16 pm

OBRIEN-I agree, Woodson wasn’t responsible for every issue the Hawks had. However, he either directly or indirectly laid the foundation for some of those issues to take place, and/or he did nothing to resolve those issues he didn’t create.

If JTeague struggles, we’ll certainly be no worse off than we were last yr with Bibby starting, who, along with JaCrawford, are still on the team. In fact, I actually expect Bibby to be much improved over last yr. He knows LDrew will hold him accountable, and unlike Woodson, he won’t eliminate any and all competition for his mins and/or starting job, or turn a blind eye when he stinks up the place.

To exceed what Bibby provided last yr, all JTeague has to do is play DEF, which he can definitely do, and average 1 FG and 1 FT per quarter(equaling 12PPG), as well as 5-6 APG. He’ll usually have either JJ or JaCrawford in the gm to take the pressure off of running everything. Besides, in LDrews OFF, which relies on ball and player movement, as well as picks, his responsibilities won’t be all that great.

We managed to match the NBA champion Lakers in PPG(101.7)and PPG allowed(96)last yr. What we must do to become closer to them in accomplishments is be more consistent defensively, rebound better, and score more efficiently in our half court OFF. We all know the Hawks had a number of problems last yr, and managed to over come them to have a very productive season overall.

As far as the idea of us treading water, at best, because other teams have seemingly improved, I disagree. I remember having this same argument with ANDO about that very thing. He felt the Hawks wouldn’t be as good as the yr before because other teams had improved on paper, especially Philly after acquiring EBrand.

That’s when I brought up the idea of us improving through the concept of ORGANIC IMPROVEMENT, although I didn’t come up with the term. Naturally, I got ridiculed, but in the end, the Hawks improved organically and left the so called much improved teams like the Bulls, Wizards, 76′ers, Heat and Bobcats in the dust. MWilliams, JSmith, AHorford and JTeague definitely can and will get better. Individually, they might not score a lot more than they did last yr, but they will do it more efficiently. And playing a traditional DEF will allow our front line players to remain near the basket, rather than on the perimeter, which will improve rebounding position, and thus rebounding.

Hawk fans can whine and cry all they want about the Hawks roster, the ASG’s decisions and money woes, but this is want it is, and what we’ll start the season with. I just think that JTeague will definitely eliminate the DEF problems we had last yr at PG, which will improve our DEF in other areas. If he starts and averages 12PPG and 5-6APG, he’ll give us more that we got last yr from he and Bibby combined.

Fundamentals

July 19th, 2010
3:35 pm

I can buy that Ken, but what happens on D when you have Bibby and Crawford in the backcourt? Is Bibby going to have more energy with less minutes and will Crawford committ to winning and not the 6th man role?

Alot of our “Bigs” and “Interior D” issues do stem from a lack of stopping the ball and being forced to help and switch. Hopefully LD and Conners will invoke responsibility for each man to guard his man.

I just really like the looks of Sy bringing the ball up. The kids got the “it” factor to me. Looks like a capable PG and potentially strong defender. JC2 seems to be a player we need to put to work. He definitely makes Mo and Bibby expendable. Even JC1 if we could get something truly special down low.

What happened to Matt Barnes signing Friday? His big surprise was he’s as unreliable at keeping his singing promises like Lebron?

bigdave

July 19th, 2010
3:39 pm

“To have somebody that can be down there and be strong and dominant, somebody that is going to rebound and finish around the bucket and catch the ball. Me and Al can take care of the rest.

We could use a little more help, a little more depth. I think we do extremely well with a lot of the bigs in the league. We seem to struggle with guys like Dwight and . . . just pretty much Dwight. We need somebody who can help us with that if we have to face him in the playoffs again.”

these are comments made when Josh was asked about the possible acquisition of Shaq..

Ken Strickland

July 19th, 2010
3:40 pm

DICKAU-you also see the light. Last yr, in addition to losing 5 gms in overtime, we lost 3 additional gms by 3pts, 1 by 2pts and 2 by 1pt. That’s 11 gms, and if we won 6 of those 11 winnable gms, we would have won 59 gms. These don’t include the embarrassing 4th quarter come from behind losses to Chicago, Detroit, Toronto, Golden State, Charlotte and New York, which were by more than 3pts.

Rondo

July 19th, 2010
3:43 pm

Matt Barnes is garbage and can’t create his own shot.All he does mostly is hang around the perimeter waiting for the open shot.The guy is also an average defender.The hawks already have a
Matt Barnes on there team. Mo Evans.

drmaryb

July 19th, 2010
3:49 pm

Around the World?

“I’ve been around the world, and I can’t find my baby.”. (-artist unknown-). Astro Joe, where you at?

Sometimes what you are looking for, was right there in front of you – all the time.
Aye, we got the same coaches and players, so you can take your pick on which one that was:

L.D.
Joe
Collins
Teague

Mmmmmh …. (*_*)

Rondo

July 19th, 2010
3:50 pm

Pape Sy is very soft and fragile and must be handled with care thats why the hawks will send him back to Europe for further development. I hope he eats his grits and Wheaties and be done manned-up before the hawks sign him after next season.

Fundamentals

July 19th, 2010
3:51 pm

Rondo,

Does Matt Barnes allow folks to blow by him on the perimeter and rack up foul after foul? Barnes is touted by most anyone in the NBA as a premier defensive specialist who can also rebound fairly well, two skills we need. I’m not worried about his scoring. We don’t have enough balls already.

drmaryb

July 19th, 2010
3:53 pm

Rondo

You nake a argueable point there re: Barnes. I actually preferred Raja Bell or Tony Allen, but oh well,
regardless of who we prefer? We get Nothing!

ASKG! smdh

Fundamentals

July 19th, 2010
3:53 pm

Rondo,

I can see that. Same with Gladyr. Kid can shoot it. When’s the last time we had reason to get excited about 2nd round picks in ATL? Much less when is the first time we really heard folks talking about our 1st round pick being a steal where we got him? I feel like we’ve drafted well under Sund, but I’m sure I’ll get bashed by who thinks we could’ve done better than Teague.

Fundamentals

July 19th, 2010
3:54 pm

Allen and Raja aren’t available anymore, Barnes is?

Who else is out there? Not that we’ll get them, but it’s fun.

Ken Strickland

July 19th, 2010
3:58 pm

FUNDAMENTALS-we now have a HC who’s not married to a limited, fixed rotation, and doesn’t have a bias against rookies and younger guards, or for vets. With the addition of Jordan Crawford, LDrew has the option of playing Bibby with anyone he chooses. If Bibby isn’t getting it done offensively or defensively, unlike Woodson, LDrew will bench his butt, rather than allowing him to become a liability to the team like Woodson insisted on doing.

As far as the impact assistant LConnor can have on the team, we only have to look at the Celtics to see how that can work. No one has ever accused PPierce and RAllen of being DEF stalworths, but they certainly looked the part, along with KGarnett playing on one leg, in the DEF designed by former assistant coach, and Chicago’s new HC, Tom Thibodeau.

Rondo

July 19th, 2010
4:00 pm

A lot of the hawks guys were out of position on defense because of defensive schemes by opposing coaches to take advantage of mis-matches.Better defensive system = Better defensive play and no easy baskets and no players for the most part out of position defensively.So the Hawks next season really have no need for Matt Barnes.Well probably they will need him for open set shots on offense.

Melvin

July 19th, 2010
4:02 pm

Do yall think Nique will pull strings and have his nephew sign with the Hawks.

drmaryb

July 19th, 2010
4:04 pm

I don’t believe anyone said Allen and Bell were available!

I said, “I actually preferred Raja Bell or Tony Allen.”. Preferred indicates past tense, indicating –
A thing of the past! (I.E. No longer available). Reading Comprehension People – R.I.F.

Regardless of who we prefer, Matt Barnes not withstanding, we GET NOTHING!

That was and IS my point! Do you see any new faces around here – anywhere?

ASKG – “They Lie!”

(*_*)

Fundamentals

July 19th, 2010
4:06 pm

Ken,

I’m definitely excited by what I see from LD, Conners, Teague, JC2, Sy and even Aminu. I’m hoping to see the regular season unfold as you’re describing. Keeping the kids hungry and accountable should push them all to do better. I expected so much more from Bibby last year. He just seemed to give up once Crawford emerged. Hopefully LD can maximize our talent, b/c we really don’t need much to push us forward. We have an excellent team. I think the best we’ve had in quite some time coming back. It should be exciting. I’m looking forward to it. I just propose ideas and thoughts hoping I’m making us the best we can be.

I hope all the players know I value each of their contributions. I back them 100% towards our team goal.

In all due respect to Mo, he gave the effort when given the opportunity. I just wish he as a tad taller and longer, but he definitely has heart and plays hard. I love that.

Bibby has the potential to still be an awesome floor general. He can run our team. Does he have the gas in the tank for extended minutes? Probably not, but at least 50-50 or even as this year’s 6th man?

There’s a new vibe for this season in my mind. A few crummy bloggers can’t diminish that hope or optimism for me. I do wish we’d add a few more quality pieces with our trade exception and available slots, but we’ll see what happens.

O'Brien

July 19th, 2010
4:06 pm

Marvin scores 10 or 11 ppg. If Matt Barnes splits time with Marvin, Barnes would score just as many points.

And statistically, Barnes is a better defender than Marvin. Not to mention the fact that Matt Barnes made 66 three point FG compared to only 40 for Marvin.

Fundamentals

July 19th, 2010
4:11 pm

My sincere apologies drmaryb – I didn’t catch the reading comprehension part. I narrow mindedly got angry at mentioning what’s gone and not mentioning what’s still out there. If they’re gone…they’re gone. I prefer alot of players, but it doesn’t matter if we can’t get them. I too am just pissed and see your point – we’re most likely not getting anyone.

Rondo = I can buy that as well. Holding folks individually accountable will help the need for Barnes, but he might still be an assett as would a big or two and a good 3 pt threat.

Lester Conner’s defensive philosophy should be our new team motto!

Rod from College Park

July 19th, 2010
4:12 pm

Rondo,

“Matt Barnes is garbage and can’t create his own shot.All he does mostly is hang around the perimeter waiting for the open shot.The guy is also an average defender.The hawks already have a Matt Barnes on there team. Mo Evans.”

He actually gives you the same production as Marvin offensively, can create a shot better than Marvin can, and is considered around the league as an above average defender. You could probably get his services for about 3 to 4 mill less than you pay Marvin. The comparison should be made to Marvin not Mo Evans, as Mo has been forced to play out of position. Mo is a natural 2, and Barnes can play the 2 or the 3 easily at 6′7. Mo Evans is only 6′5 and should not be guarding wings(3’s) unless he is forced to.

drmaryb

July 19th, 2010
4:14 pm

Funfamentals

That little rant was not pointed at you, Sir. That is just frustration for being
LIED to by the ASKG:

Atlanta Spirit-Killer Group!

(*_*)

Rod from College Park

July 19th, 2010
4:14 pm

Rondo,

“Well probably they will need him for open set shots on offense.”

Those are the same shots that Marvin can’t make.

Rondo

July 19th, 2010
4:15 pm

O’Brien-You could probably hit 50 three pointers in a season if you had a guy like Dwight in the middle. And you would be known as a great defender if all you had to do is stay in front of a guy knowing if your man got buy Dwight got your back.Besides he don’t have great value for the Magic because they know he is Fools Gold.

Grandad

July 19th, 2010
4:22 pm

Ken as always is on point.
I have only a slight disagreement.
-But 1st-
>Summer League assessment:
[it has to do with the line of conversation]
Teaguer became more & more comfortable ea. game.
*We should expect the same during season.
I think LD likes Luke Jackson.
*His intagibles led to PT. [I'm certain of a camp invite]
Jermareo Davidson was better offensively than I thought.
*played scared on def.
Gladyr = Europe
*Gladyr = Europe
Paps = jury out
*Paps lots of ground to make up between now & fall.
JC2, not yet ready to contribute with the varsity. [5th guard]
*JC2, behind on def., decision making, shot selection [be patient]
Others:
Aminu – too inconsistent
Hendrix – consistent but not athletic enough
Randy Morris – I’m sorry, but no thanks
Gilder – bullfighter defense, “ole”
Augustine – didn’t make mistakes…didn’t do much else

-Now back on point-

Where I differ from Ken, is, -my- lack of patience.
We need another good player immediately.
*[not just a name]*(but a good player/ preferredly in the front ct]
This team needs to grow confidence. [real]
Our false confidence was obliterated by Orl.
I agree, trade deadline will bring better value.
However, we need, @ least a tweak now.
Something the fans can grab onto.
Something the players can hang their hat on psychologically.
So far everything has been internal.
Management needs to show them, they, the ASG + Sund is trying.
I believe the ASG got lucky with LD.
Luck only goes so far.

Now back to SL for 1 last item:
-LD-
Dang good job.
Turning those misfits into a cohesive unit.
I cannot wait to see what he can do with real players.

Fundamentals

July 19th, 2010
4:24 pm

Who would you prefer Rondo?

I take my licks when deserved drmaryb. No worries here.

Rondo

July 19th, 2010
4:25 pm

This season Marvin Williams will blossom to the player that you fans know he can be.I know you guys have watched games where Marvin was unstoppable.And he has a great mid-range game.What bothers most of you fans about Marvin is that he will have a big game one night and then might disappear for a span of games. Lets just see if L.D.’s offense can wake up the offensive monster that is in Marvin.You will see his value next season Rod.

Najeh Davenpoop

July 19th, 2010
4:28 pm

We all know by now that the Hawks are not serious about competing in the playoffs, but if they were, they need two perimeter defenders and a center. Joe is one of those perimeter defenders, but the Hawks need another positional defender at SF who will force LeBron to take jump shots. And we all know they struggle with Dwight… that horse has been beaten to a bloody pulp on this blog.

I think Barnes would fill in that perimeter defender role just fine, and Shaq is the ideal acquisition to deal with Howard. I guess I will have to trade for them on NBA 2k11, since the real life Hawks are going to hope and pray that Jason Collins can handle Shaq and Marvin grows the balls to guard LeBron.

Rondo

July 19th, 2010
4:32 pm

Fundamentals-I prefer a savvy vetern like Kurt Thomas who is better than Randmo and Collins combined.Or Josh Boone or Damien Wilkens would do just fine.And Will Bynum over Bibby to split time with Teague at point.

Najeh Davenpoop

July 19th, 2010
4:32 pm

Someone posted this earlier but it bears repeating — Marvin does not need to be a scoring option on this team. In fact, it’s probably better if he isn’t. The Hawks have plenty of scorers. He needs to be the best damn perimeter defender in the league (which he certainly can be with his athleticism and body type) and at least a 38% 3-point shooter. If he can reliably stretch the floor on offense and limit opposing wing scorers to belowmtheir average output, he will be well worth his contract. I don’t need to see him “blossom into the player he can be”. I need to see him efficiently fill the role of perimeter defender and 3-point specialist. Anything else in his game can follow from there.

SteveW

July 19th, 2010
4:33 pm

ASG – spend the 3m you made on draft day!

Only 2 spots left on the roster – Shaq, Tolliver, Brown, Powell, Craig, Alston or who?

They say (NBA HoopsHype) that Joe Smith is one of the best locker room guys in the league – hope he’s not our 12th guy.

RandMo to Tel Aviv according to internet reports

Fundamentals

July 19th, 2010
4:34 pm

Rondo – I pray that potential is realized. LD has some work getting the most out of Smoove as well. We’ve got the talent, I just don’t think we’ve always used it under Woodson. LD’s got an opportunity, but that doesn’t all rest on LD’s shoulders.

What are each of our players doing this summer? Any news from anyone?

Rondo

July 19th, 2010
4:35 pm

Damien Wilkens would be the perimeter defender they will need.Cheaper and more effective than Matt Barnes.

Najeh Davenpoop

July 19th, 2010
4:40 pm

“O’Brien-You could probably hit 50 three pointers in a season if you had a guy like Dwight in the middle. And you would be known as a great defender if all you had to do is stay in front of a guy knowing if your man got buy Dwight got your back.”

There is some truth to this — certainly it is easier to play defense when you have a dominating shot-blocker behind you. Incidentally, the Hawks have one of the best interior help defenders in the league, and if Woody hadn’t been busy playing Smoove and Horford on opposing PGs, the perimeter defense on this team would have probably been much better since those two would have been in the post where they belong. That said. it’s not like you can just throw any player on the perimeter if you have a good post defender — if that were the case, Richard Jefferson would have been just S effectively this season as Bruce Bowen had been before him. Players like Bowen and Barnes don’t put up noticeable numbers, but they are very good at the most fundamental aspect of playing defense, which is keeping one’s body between the other player and the basket to force jumpshots.

SteveW

July 19th, 2010
4:49 pm

Cavs worss – Heat waaay better (and they won 47 last year), Boston with O’Neil better, Magic equal to better, Bulls waaay better, Bucks better – unless there’s alot of injuries on other teams and we stay healthy, no way we win 53 again.

Teague can be Rondo – in 2 years, not this year. JC2 can be Jamal (almost) in about 3 years.

Get a legit Center (I’m ok with Collins, just don’t sign Joe Smith and a scrub for the last 2 guys)

Really wish we would sign Shaq and another PG – but I think the organization believes if Teague or Bibby goes down, Jamal can handle the duties

I am high but realistic on Teague – I believe if he continues to develop, a top 10 or even better PG in the NBA, just not this year. Doesn’t look natural to him – but what quickeness!

Rondo

July 19th, 2010
4:50 pm

Richard Jefferson don’t fit in the role he has with the Spurs.RJ is a scorer and you can tell he doesn’t like his role in San Antonio.Yes Bowen gave superstars like Kobe trouble but who has Barnes been known to give trouble on defense.If Barnes was so good of a defensive player why haven’t Orlando locked him up.Barnes is an ok defender but he ain’t nowhere near a Bruce Bowen.

Rondo

July 19th, 2010
4:53 pm

Barnes can gaurd perimeter shooters but he can’t gaurd nba scorers

SteveW

July 19th, 2010
4:56 pm

FYI – Joe Johnson is not even among the 10 highest paid players in the NBA this season – and Kobe will be making over 30mill. per when he is 35 – JJ less than 25m at 34. Guys, I hate to say it, but we had to do it…

Fundamentals

July 19th, 2010
5:10 pm

Damien would definitely have the pressure to perform under Nique.

We had to pay Joe, deal with it.

Collins is one of the two slots? What’s next?

Fundamentals

July 19th, 2010
5:22 pm

Jefferson is a sell out who hasn’t been able to help any team he’s been with push for a title. No deal for RJ. Bloggers have made me feel better about no Barnes. I still say Mo is odd man out due to his lack of size for our needs.

Still doesn’t discount the need for help down low on D?

Rondo

July 19th, 2010
5:31 pm

Captain Kurt Thomas.Savvy vetern who does the dirty work and gets the job done.He is more like a poor mans Charles Oakly.Great fit if the Hawks are looking for vetern leadership in a big.And he won’t bring in the baggage that The Big Sickness Shaq would have brought.

Fundamentals

July 19th, 2010
5:32 pm

Thomas definitely worked hard against us. Proved some good value.

drmaryb

July 19th, 2010
6:05 pm

Fundamentals

I really like YOU. You, Sir, are a class act. (*_*)

Ken Strickland

July 19th, 2010
6:08 pm

DAP01-I agree with you on the fact JCollins was out of shape, but he wasn’t the only player on the team that was out of shape. Starting PG MBibby has so out of shape Woodson felt he had to rely on the switching DEF to allow him to play extended mins. Bibby couldn’t fight over picks or stay in front of anybody, and both he, our uptempo OFF and early season 107PPG average collapsed as he wore down.

GRANDAD-I see that tweak possibly coming off our summer league roster, if not someone else’s.

STEVEW-JTeague, JJohnson, AHorford, JSmith, MWilliams, MBibby, ZPachulia, MEvans, JaCrawford, JoCrawford and JCollins make 11 players already under contract. That leaves only one slot left to add a player, who’s definitely going to be a minimum salaried player. They’ll probably want to remain financially flexible just in case they need to clear a roster spot for a player later.

I honestly believe the ASG wants to wait until the trade deadline, to see what HC LDrew has done with the roster we have, before committing to spending any more money. If we’re battling for the division title, and/or a top seed in the East, I can see them opening their wallets to sign what we need, be it a center, PG or both.

At this point, anyone that’s been keeping up with what some of our players have been saying about HC LDrew and his OFF/DEF systems, and still feel he’s nothing more than Woodson 11, is definitely clueless.

Rod from College Park

July 19th, 2010
6:20 pm

Rondo,

I won’t be holding my breath waiting on Marvin to become anything of value. He has been given ample oppurtunity and has failed miserably. Marvin has received more wide open looks than any 3 in the league, because teams choose not to even guard him, or put a 6′3 guard on him, and he can’t take advantage of that. It amazes me that some of you actually think he will be a better player in another system. He will never in his career, receive better looks than he received the last couple of years. Not sure about all of these great scoring games he has had that you are talking about. I can remember maybe 5 to 10 in his whole career.

Najeh,

Agreed that Marvin doe not have to be a big scorer, but this team becomes much more dangerous if he is a threat. He is not even a threat on the floor now. Thus his invisible man moniker. I am not impressed at all with his defense either. Wallace/Jackson desroy him most of the time, Granger destroys him most of the time, forcing Joe to have to cover him, Lebron put up 50 on us last year after everyone talked about what great defense Marvin plays on him, Pierce always goes for big numbers on us in the playoffs…. The main problem with Marvin on the defensive side also, is his man does not have to worry about him on the offensive end. That’s part of the reason why he is such a liability. It’s like we are playing 4 against 5 with him on the floor offensively, and defensively with him and Bibby, we end up playing 3 against 5, as he is a waeker defender that Josh, Joe and Horford.

drmaryb

July 19th, 2010
6:24 pm

Ken Strickland

1 spot left? I think the league maximum is 13 and the minimum is 12?
We need to fill 2 more spots, in case of injuries. Correct me, if I’m wrong.

(*_*)

O'Brien

July 19th, 2010
6:44 pm

Drmaryb,

League maximum is 15, minimum is 12.

Rondo,

On the court, Marvin received a lot of open looks from JJ’s double teams. But he still missed. Also, Matt Barnes can guard the 2 or the 3 (he has been asked to guard Kobe before).

On our team, JJ ends up guarding lebron or Pierce or Granger sometimes, especially in crunch time (all those guys are SFs).

Not to mention Marvin makes $7.5 mil per year. Matt Barnes will probably make half of that. So who is the better value for the money?

I agree with you about Kurt Thomas though. We saw first hand how he held his own against horford, so I don’t know why sund would not bring him in.

O'Brien

July 19th, 2010
6:46 pm

Drmaryb,

League minimum might be 13

Ken Strickland

July 19th, 2010
6:46 pm

FUNDAMENTALS-I’m with you my friend. I’m also anxious to see everything fall into place, allowing the team can muzzle all of these negative thinkers. For the last 3 seasons, these negative thinkers have used the same lame BS excuse by saying the Hawks couldn’t win more gms than the previous yr because other Eastern teams had improved. And each season the team proved them all wrong by going from 39 to 47 to 53 wins, and from the 8th to 4th to 3rd seed respectively.

How can replacing KHinrich’s DEF, and his 10.9PPG, 4.5APG & 3.3RPG with KKorver’s 7.2PPG, 1.7APG & 2.1RPG, and limited DEF at best, be an improvement for the Bulls? Adding PF CBoozer could end up having the same negative affect on LDeng, and overall team chemistry, that adding EBrand had on Iguodala and Philly’s overall team chemistry. What looks good on paper doesn’t always translate into success on the court.

I STAND BY MY PROJECTIONS!!

Ken Strickland

July 19th, 2010
6:49 pm

DRMARYB-you’re not wrong, I was referring to the 12 man active roster.

drmaryb

July 19th, 2010
6:50 pm

OBRIEN

So, it’s 15 … Well, how many did we toll last season? Seems like we are trying to get to 13 then.
WOW! How many players do the Elite teams toll?

Lakers
Boston
Cetics

No wonder we aways seem to play 12 against 15. HC need OPTIONS ….man OPTIONS.

JoJo the Godfather

July 19th, 2010
6:55 pm

Rod, the stats say that Marvin was a pretty good defender at the SF position last year…He DEFENDED his position as well or better than most all-stars at the position…I’m with you though, he has got to knock down the open jumper…His form is way too good for that shot not to fall consistently…Has to be in his head.

JeJe

July 19th, 2010
6:56 pm

This blog sucks.

Rondo

July 19th, 2010
6:58 pm

O’brien-I guess it is a draw Marvin has his upsides and downsides and Barnes has his.Still i like Marvin as a scoring threat over Barnes.Just like Odom’s play irritate Lakers fans Marvins up and down performances will continue to frustrate hawks fans.

JoJo the Godfather

July 19th, 2010
7:00 pm

I’m still hoping the Hawks will go after Kirk Hinrich…Bibby, Evans & a draft pick should do it (Wiz get shorter, cheaper contracts and a pick for the future but still have vets to play with Wall).

JoJo the Godfather

July 19th, 2010
7:05 pm

Sacramento is looking for a PG that can shoot from outside…They are under the cap and could absorb Bibby’s contract without sending anything back in return…I’d send Bibby, cash & draft picks to Sac-town just to get rid of Bibby and free up space under the luxury tax threshold…Its a long shot, but worth a try…Good luck Sund.

Truth-Serum

July 19th, 2010
7:06 pm

O’Brien I hear you. Again, Im waiting for a link or bibliography or something re-post of an article something other than a haters interpretation or uncorroborated tales. 80% of the blogs here are just a persons opinion or interpretation of whats taking or taken place. Very few offer facts or evidence to support their claims.

For example, read just this page. How many times do you see claims about woodson or teague or Horford where the writer is making a debasing statement perjuring the person with out a link or an qualified article to support his statement?

STEVE , FRIED CHICKEN, RUFUS AND VAVA or the only ones who offer substanial reference and documentation for their positions.

For the most part the rest Just sowed their opinions. Nothing wrong with that, It just that opinions often get misconstrued with reality.

One poster said the hawks matched the lakers for offense and defense which is not true. While woodsons team did show as much offensive out put as the lakers defensively we could not match them in the middle.

Here is the team stats last year defensively

http://www.nba.com/statistics/sortable_team_statistics/sortable2.html?cnf=1&prd=1

Now heres an example of someone who claims to know what was in Woodson’s mind and offered it as evidence to support his premise.

“Woodson felt he had to rely on the switching DEF to allow him to play extended mins.”

My conclusion is, I find better case presentations on other sites. In fact, if the 80% (guestamation) had to be responsible for what the say much of the hate on this site would cease and the level of intelligence would go up.

Rondo

July 19th, 2010
7:07 pm

I agree that Chicago didn’t make that much of an upgrade.Watch Boozers game diminish a little bit because he don’t have a point that can give him those great passes in the right spot anymore.Rose is awesome but he isn’t the set up man williams is.

Truth-Serum

July 19th, 2010
7:08 pm

read just this page.(page 5)

bust a move

July 19th, 2010
7:08 pm

Chicago will finish higher than the hawks

bust a move

July 19th, 2010
7:10 pm

of course so will 5 other teams.

Thats true

July 19th, 2010
7:12 pm

“This blog sucks.”

Rondo

July 19th, 2010
7:12 pm

bust a move rank the east next season

Melvin

July 19th, 2010
7:16 pm

From John Kincade twitter page:

“Atlanta’s #1 sports radio station just got bigger as the Hawks join 680 and 99X! THE sports destination on radio welcomes them into the fold “

bust a move

July 19th, 2010
7:19 pm

OK Rondo.

1 Miami

2 boston

3 Orlando

4 Milwaukee

5 Chicago

6 Atlanta

7 Cleveland

8 Charlotte

Truth-Serum

July 19th, 2010
7:20 pm

I wish MC will come back to give us more blog topics.
Boring

bust a move

July 19th, 2010
7:20 pm

Your turn Rondo

drmaryb

July 19th, 2010
7:21 pm

Men’s Warehouse

Buy ONE suit and Get ONE – FREE!
Sale Never Ends – Enless Supply

That’s what’s up downtown Atlanta, We are shopping for some plugs to fill some holes.

Do You have a pulse?
Do You have a Job already?
Do You have a Posse?
(We pay your people too .. Wink-Wink)
Do You have a car?
(Well, do you know anybody – who knows somebody – who has a car?)

Oh, Do You rebound and defend in your spare time?

…. Well You said Yes to 1 outa’ 5 questions, You’re Hired!
We pay $8.00 per/week. Pay-Days is Friday. Per Diem is $100.00 (double that for Jason)

Naw…I’m just playing, but for real … Isn’t their a law against hiring only family members?
It seems like the Hawks are a Self-Circulatory Vascular System. The only way a player can leave is
6′ Feet under. Poor Chills had to play in Greece just to get away.
L.D. Tried to leave, but was blocked at the door. Jason Collins did nothing to get re-signed,
He is actually in Europe on vacation and is too busy to sign his 1.3M contract right now.

Mario West, RandyMo, blah. … Blah. …

We NEED some FRESH meat !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Truth-Serum

July 19th, 2010
7:23 pm

I guess people are afraid to use there own names so they resort to using mine.

Truth-Serum

July 19th, 2010
7:20 pm

Not my post. In fact I dont even read the Con man. I dont care if he never writes again. To Biased for me.

Rondo

July 19th, 2010
7:24 pm

Bust a move i guess it will be a first round sweep due to your guesstimations since the hawks would have to face Orlando in the 1st round.

Clyde

July 19th, 2010
7:28 pm

drmaryb have you been drinking again?

bust a move

July 19th, 2010
7:29 pm

I dont see the hawks as a serious team any more Nothing they have done has improved them as a team nor have they kept pace with the rate of growth on the teams in front of or behind them. Weve made some bad choices. What your seeding?

Rondo

July 19th, 2010
7:29 pm

1.Heat
2.Magic
3.Hawks
4.Celtics
5.Bulls
6.Bucks
7.Bobcats
8.Knicks/Wizards/Sixers won’t matter will face the Heat

drmaryb

July 19th, 2010
7:41 pm

Ken Strickland

Spot – On re: getting the RIGHT piece. Chemistry and Play-Styles need to fit our System.

Wow! That’s nice to say – SYSTEM!
Aye … I am a die hard Mr. Woodson and I for one, cried when he left.
However, I did have ONE BIG complaint about his Team Identity & lack of well defined roles for the Team
Players within a SYSTEM of Offense and Defense.

Like S.A., Utah, Lakers do year in and out.
We all know their plays in our sleep, but they execute so methodically and machine like, to where you can’t even stop it. They SIMPLY impose their WILL upon YOU, send your dysfunctional team AWAY,
Check their lap-tops, get showered & dressed and out on a date!

Tell me, most of these players are not distracted from basketball by The Life of a NBA Star?
Pat Riley always draft fighters and tough guys and killers.
We always get the Soft-Serve Ice Milk stuff.

I’m just Sayin! We need to hire from OUTSIDE the company too!
I’m just keepin’ it Real!
Ole’ Gurl want some FRESH meat! (*_*)

drmaryb

July 19th, 2010
7:53 pm

Bubba Crew Diva!
(Wardrobe by Prada 2011)

CLYDE

Yes Baby, Ms. B. Just popped a bottle of – Pierre Joue’t 1980 – !
I am celebrating Life!

I’m done grieving my silly Hawks team! They’ll just become one of my many toys and
I’ll try to squeeze them back into my rotation in November 2010. I’m just eating popcorn
and sipping from my Sippy-Cup (adult beverage). I wanna’ see what they roll out there and
see how they play the game, before I pass judgement on the team as a whole.

The way I see it? The Team is on their own next season and ASKG said yall better play @ 100%!

doc

July 19th, 2010
8:15 pm

Truth if you stayvaway from your I’d too long someone will snap it up.:-)

Rod from College Park

July 19th, 2010
8:32 pm

JoJo the Godfather,

“Rod, the stats say that Marvin was a pretty good defender at the SF position last year…He DEFENDED his position as well or better than most all-stars at the position…I’m with you though, he has got to knock down the open jumper…His form is way too good for that shot not to fall consistently…Has to be in his head.”

Help me out. Which stats are those? Please provide those stats for me.

Truth=Serum

July 19th, 2010
9:46 pm

doc

LOL !

I enjoy your posts doc. You do lift when you right. Thanks for the shout!

northcyde

July 19th, 2010
10:11 pm

Marvin’s Defensive PER at SF vs the other starting SFs in the NBA. ( eFG% will be beside the PER number )

Artest: 12.9 – ( 46.7% eFG )

Marion: 13.3 – ( 42.2% eFG )
Barnes: 13.3 – ( 44.6% eFG )
Durant: 13.3 – ( 47.7% eFG )
R. Jefferson: 13.3 – ( 48.6% eFG )
Delfino: 13.5 – ( 46.2% eFG )

C. Butler ( WAS ): 14.3 – ( 48.3% eFG )
Peja: 14.4 – ( 49.0% eFG )
Turkoglu: 14.7 – ( 48.9% eFG )
Deng: 14.8 – ( 46.7% eFG )
Granger: 14.9 – ( 50.0% eFG )

Carmelo: 15.3 – ( 50.8% eFG )
Casspi: 15.4 – ( 48.6% eFG )
Morrow: 15.4 – ( 49.3% eFG )
Lebron: 15.6 – ( 50.3% eFG )
Pierce: 15.7 – ( 48.9% eFG )
Kirilenko: 15.7 – ( 49.9% eFG )
Marvin: 15.7 – ( 51.7% eFG )
Q. Richardson: 15.8 – ( 48.2% eFG )
Iguodala: 15.9 – ( 49.8% eFG )
G. Wallace: 15.9 – ( 51.7% eFG )

Gay: 16.2 – ( 53.0% eFG )
Webster: 16.2 – ( 53.3% eFG )
Ariza: 16.7 – ( 49.7% eFG )
Gallinari: 16.7 – ( 52.5% eFG )
Prince: 16.8 – ( 54.4% eFG )

Hill: 17.0 – ( 50.9% eFG )
Ras. Butler: 17.1 – ( 49.9%eFG )
Douglas-Roberts: 17.5 – ( 50.8% eFG )

Gomes: 18.1 – ( 50.0% eFG )

*******************************

If you go by this, Marvin gets a grade of C defensively, when comparing him to this crop of SFs. And his grade might be even lower, when you consider that he doesn’t generate a lot of “hustle plays” like steals and blocks. I thought he was better than this actually. But come to think of it, he did have flashes in which he looked great defensively, and other days when he got lit up.

Shocked at that Durant 13.3 PER number. But then again, when he guarded Kobe in the playoffs, he did a good job on him. That guy is long as hell, and if he ever started to get a little more steals and blocks, he’ll get All-Defensive team consideration in the future.

SteveW

July 19th, 2010
10:20 pm

Shocked – the Magic have 3 guys making more than Joe Johnson this year – Matt Barnes, Vince, and Dwight Howard. I didn’t know the Magic were on the hook for Barnes at well over 20m per season thru 2013 – wow!

Joe Johnson by the way is 15th in salary this season at 16.3m+, and he was 3rd team all NBA – one of the 15 best players out there or so..

SteveW

July 19th, 2010
10:23 pm

Kobe is on the books for over 30m when he is 35 years old! At least Joe Johnson’s contract expires when he is 34.

SteveW

July 19th, 2010
10:23 pm

Joe is for less than 25m when his expires at 34 also..

northcyde

July 19th, 2010
10:40 pm

PER and eFG% of SF’s Offensively

Lebron: 34.0 – ( 55.1% eFG )

Durant: 29.3 – ( 51.6% eFG )

Carmelo: 25.4 – ( 48.1% eFG )

Granger: 21.1 – ( 49.6% eFG )

Pierce: 20.2 – ( 53.4% eFG )

Kirilenko: 19.4 – ( 52.9% eFG )

Iguodala: 18.8 – ( 46.6% eFG )
G. Wallace: 18.7 – ( 49.2% eFG )
Gay: 18.1 – ( 49.8% eFG )
Deng: 18.1 – ( 48.7% eFG )

Prince: 17.9 – ( 50.1% eFG )

Hill: 16.0 – ( 50.4% eFG )

Barnes: 15.9 – ( 55.5% eFG )
Casspi: 15.7 – ( 51.9% eFG )
Q. Richardson: 15.5 – ( 57.9% eFG% )
Ariza: 15.2 – ( 46.6% eFG )
Gallinari: 15.1 – ( 50.0% eFG )

R. Jefferson: 14.9 – ( 52.0% eFG )
Marion: 14.9 – ( 49.5% eFG )
Delfino: 14.8 – ( 50.7% eFG )
Marvin: 14.8 – ( 49.2% eFG )
Turkoglu: 14.7 – ( 49.1%eFG )
C. Butler ( WAS ): 14.6 – ( 43.3% eFG )
Morrow: 14.1 – ( 54.7% eFG )
Webster: 14.0 – ( 50.5% eFG )

Artest: 13.7 – ( 49.2% eFG )
Douglas-Roberts: 13.6 – ( 47.7% eFG )
Peja: 13.5 – ( 49.7% eFG )

Ras. Butler: 12.8 – ( 51.4% eFG )
Gomes: 12.2 – ( 49.7% eFG )

***********************

Same situation on offense. You look at this list, and he’s probably closer to a C- in the PER department. His inability to knock down wide open jumpers this year, combined with him disappearing on the boards at times, didn’t help him any last season.

And once again . . . Durant is SCARY. OKC may be one more All-Star big man or guard away from being a major threat in the West.

darrell starks

July 19th, 2010
11:03 pm

Northcyde the hawks have 2 make a move 2 get the fans excited about this team, if bring back the same thing the hawks will failed miserably in attendence and on the floor, the east will be strong this year and hawks will fall back f no changes 2 be made.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!

darrell starks

July 19th, 2010
11:15 pm

The conversation about marvin is not good the guy is in his 5year and still no improvement in his game, but other teams see marvin as being young with lots of potential if so maybe some one will bite for marvin who has some value at the age of 24.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!

darrell starks

July 19th, 2010
11:23 pm

I have been screaming for this guy for years, the situation between igg and sixer is just about done, there has been speculation every year about the igg being on the trading block, plus the sixer are looking for a big man, why not rick sund call philly.
MARVIN, ZAZA, AND A FIRST FOR IGG THAT WILL CLEAR A LITTLE CAP FOR SHAQ.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!

darrell starks

July 19th, 2010
11:26 pm

darrell starks

July 19th, 2010
11:29 pm

darrell starks

July 19th, 2010
11:34 pm

darrell starks

July 20th, 2010
12:01 am

2010 ATLANTA HAWKS
STARTER TEAGUE, JOE, IGG, JOSH, HORFORD.
BENCH JAMAL, JC2, MOE, JOE SMITH, SHAQ
RESERVE BIBBY, COLLINS
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!

northcyde

July 20th, 2010
12:07 am

I’ll say this about Iggy. That dude would be the perfect compliment to JJ here. Not only is he the slasher that this team could use, he’s also a guy who is a very good playmaker that could get a shooter like JJ, and a high flyer like Smoove, a lot of easy looks.

I’d deal Crawford + a 1st round pick for Iggy with the quickness. They’ll first see how he and Evan Turner mesh together. But if it doesn’t work out, Iggy is a guy I’d love to have on this team.

northcyde

July 20th, 2010
12:09 am

Teague – JJ – Iggy – Smoove – Horford

If Teague pans out, especially defensively, that is a DYNAMIC lineup. LOL . . JJ would have to take just about every outside shot, but that is a high octane lineup right there.

BILLY KNIGHT

July 20th, 2010
12:34 am

That move if so of marvin, zaza, and a first for igg with a lineup of
teague, jj, igg, josh, horford.
would be a steal for the hawks.

Grandad

July 20th, 2010
12:50 am

TS:

I know I’ve aggravated the heck outa’ you,
But, even though I proffer my opinions,
I’m pretty darn sure, that when I state a fact,
I can back it up with documentation or experience.
As much as you and I engage in spirited repartee,
you should know that I always tell things exactly,
as I know them to be true.
So, curse me if you wish, you have before.
It bothers me not. If it makes you feel manly.
Go ahead I can take it…..but know this.
You & I,
we both know the truth and the truth shall set you free.

Not mean’t to antagonize.
However you made accusations that you knew to be false.
Without naming me directly.
Still, you knew better.
I will continue my opine & my accurate analysis.
@ 7:23 *P. M. You mentioned that people
are afraid to use their own names.
Well:
sincerely, Grandad.

Clyde

July 20th, 2010
1:35 am

Yall need to stop wit all that Iggy crap. You know good and well the Spirit Group and gonna trade Marvin Williams.

vava74

July 20th, 2010
5:17 am

vava74

July 20th, 2010
5:23 am

We should keep an eye on this guy. He could be a serviceable space eater after a year of play in Euroball.

http://www.mercurynews.com/warriors/ci_15537180?nclick_check=1

O'Brien

July 20th, 2010
7:27 am

Northcyde,

Thanks for the SF stats. One thing that fans are guilty of (including me) is we base our opinions off what we see (or think we see). But sometimes, what we see is not what the numbers say it is.

Marvin is an okay defender, but he is by no means a defender like Barnes (who was #2 on the list). Yes, playing with D12 behind you does help, but to be #2 still shows what kind of defender Barnes is.

And when you factor in Barnes’ salary (reportedly $4.5 mil per year from Toronto), compared to $7.5 mil for Marvin, it’s a no-brainer. Hopefully Marvin will improve to where he was 2 seasons ago.

As for Igyy, we talked about him on the other blog a while back. I think he would fit (especially if Teague can knock down 3s), but at 4 years, $56 mil left on his deal, that would be a tough money pill to swallow. Now if we get rid of Marvin and Bibby, then that might work.

You know dat boy aint right

July 20th, 2010
7:44 am

Truth-Serum

July 19th, 2010
7:06 pm
Again, Im waiting for a link or bibliography or something re-post of an article something other than a haters interpretation or uncorroborated tales. 80% of the blogs here are just a persons opinion or interpretation of whats taking or taken place. Very few offer facts or evidence to support their claims.

Yes, OPINIONS would be what a blog is for. That’s why it’s called a BLOG, not a “fact-finder’s forum”. By the way, since I’m sure you don’t want to be a hypocrite of biblical proportions, perhaps you’d better start providing footnotes and fact-related references EVERY SINGLE TIME YOU POST. Otherwise, you’ll get called out over and over. You and the other 43 people bouncing around in your little peanut sized head.

macaroni tony

July 20th, 2010
8:05 am

If we can get MW to play like this all season then we’ll be a pretty good team.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FC5aLzd2HkE&feature=related

vava74

July 20th, 2010
10:39 am

tony,

Marvin’s shot during the 2009-10 season was completely off because he held on too long before releasing the ball.

This 2008-09 footage shows his shot with perfect fluidity with the release coming at the exact point it should.

I think that MW has suffered from lack of confidence in his game throughout this past season and was never able to shake that off.

He may never become a player deserving of a #2 pick, however I think we can still hope that he will improve and get back to 2008-09 levels on both ends of the court.

Although I love Crawford, who seems a very nice guy, I think his presence caused more harm than benefit since it affected both Marvin and Bibby’s games dramatically, mostly on account of Woody never finding the right way to balance the shots and the playing time each one got.

Woody is a very poor “rotation manager” and I doubt that he will get any serious consideration from any quality team for a new HC opportunity.

He is a perennial Assistant Coach and soon, rather than later, he will look for a job in that capacity where I believe he can be of good value for a coaching staff since I also think he looks like a nice man.

Ken Strickland

July 20th, 2010
11:26 am

MACARONI TONY-There are people on these blogs that are obsessed with promoting personal agendas against players like AHorford, MWilliams or JSmith. They are incapable of seeing anything positive about any of these players, and seem to focus exclusively on what they perceive as their negatives.

These MARVIN HATERS have a single minded focus on using last yrs performance as the sole representation of his entire career and his total capabilities. In Marvin’s 05-06 rookie yr, he averaged 8.5 PPG and 4.8RPG coming off the bench, and 13.1PPG and 5.3RPG in 06-07, his 1st yr as a starter. He continued his progression in 07-08 and averaged 14.8PPG and 5.7RPG, which is when the Hawks made their mid season trade for PG MBibby. It was Bibby’s acquisition that started Marvin’s annual progression into an annual regression.

Adding Flip Murray, then Jamal Crawford, and giving AHorford and JSmith more of a roll in the OFF, as well are last yrs almost total dependence on ISO’s, also contributed to Marvin’s decline. It’s not an issue of whether Marvin can do better, because he’s definitely demonstrated he can, but how much will he improve if given more opportunities.

Now we can expect the MARVIN HATERS to chime in with their typical haters BS. I think LDrew’s OFF, and OFF philosophy, will help create easier scoring opportunities for each player, rather than the old philosophy of each player having to create his own scoring opportunities using ISO’s. I think JJ’s PPG average will be about the same as last yrs, but he’ll require fewer shots to get there.

The increased efficiency of JJ, Smoove and Horford will allow Marvin more scoring opportunities. And, because JTeague can penetrate, rather than relying exclusively on jump shooting, he’ll score more from the FT line. We saw that during the Summer League, when he went to the FT line 7-8 times per gm. How many consecutive gms would we have to play before seeing Bibby go the FT line that many times?

Hitting 3pt shots is nice, but against big, strong inside teams like the Lakers and Magic, getting their bigs in foul trouble and going to the FT line is far more effective in the long run than relying on 3’s.

terrell

July 20th, 2010
11:49 am

MY 1st team All NBA
DWade
KBryant
LJames
PGasol
DHoward

MY 2nd team All NBA
RRondo
KDurant
CAnthony
DNowitzki
AHorford

MY 3rd team All NBA
DWilliams
JJohnson
PPierce
AStoudemire
TDuncan

GeeMack

July 20th, 2010
12:01 pm

macaroni tony

I we could get Marvin to play like that 62 out 82 games we would be very good. Lol.

drmaryb

July 20th, 2010
12:03 pm

Grand-Daddy

What’s up Baby? Well, nothing happened after all the scouting and suggestions we all made.
especially you, looking for hidden gem stones.

Great Job there!

(*_*)

Grandad

July 20th, 2010
12:07 pm

Ken Strickland:

Once again – nailed it.
I reckon Marv Will have a career year [offense]
in LD’s system. Ain’t it great *per Mary Ellen:
to actually have a system, a Coach with an
actual philosophy.
LD’s system can integrate J&A + Marv all @
the same time due to interchangeable positions.
Thats why it’s imperitive to bring in system specific
Players.
*Also why I think Luke Jackson has a good chance to
make the team.

GeeMack

July 20th, 2010
12:08 pm

vava74 & Ken

I’m glad we don’t make the same excuses for Josh that we do for Marvin. The Hawks would really be bad in that case.

GeeMack

July 20th, 2010
12:15 pm

LBJ, CB1, D-Wade, & Big Z just moved into our division, the entire Hawks team need to step every aspect of their game up.

doc

July 20th, 2010
12:25 pm

yeah truth,better stay close to your signature name dude, someone woill steal it quick if you blink. you might not believe it but someone even tried to this steal lowly old man’s a few years back. people are pretty sick around here sometimes.

it is all good and all in suffering as hawks fans. i hope you dont have to wait as long as i have for the next nba championship. it is going on 53 years since i as a fan saw them win one. whether you or anyone else wants to admit it we are all in this together. heh heh ain’t swimming in this soup fun?

Najeh Davenpoop

July 20th, 2010
12:26 pm

“I thought he was better than this actually. But come to think of it, he did have flashes in which he looked great defensively, and other days when he got lit up.”

This is the story of Marvin’s career. Two steps forward, two steps back. It’s all in his head.

“These MARVIN HATERS have a single minded focus on using last yrs performance as the sole representation of his entire career and his total capabilities. In Marvin’s 05-06 rookie yr, he averaged 8.5 PPG and 4.8RPG coming off the bench, and 13.1PPG and 5.3RPG in 06-07, his 1st yr as a starter. He continued his progression in 07-08 and averaged 14.8PPG and 5.7RPG, which is when the Hawks made their mid season trade for PG MBibby. It was Bibby’s acquisition that started Marvin’s annual progression into an annual regression.”

It’s not all about stats. In fact, efficiency-wise Marvin has been pretty much the same his whole career since his second season. Does it not concern you that a) he hasn’t improved at all in any area since his second season, b) he became less aggressive and worse from 3 after signing his long term contract, and c) he has regressed in rebounding, which is entirely independent of how many touches he gets?

I understand and agree with your tendency to lay most of the blame at Woody’s feet, but that doesn’t mean he’s the only problem. Smoove and Horford both played in the same iso-heavy, guard-centri system as Marvin and they still found a way to improve from season to season and impact the game in multiple ways, particularly without the ball in their hands.

You can coach up a guy’s skills but you can’t change his mentality. From day one, Marvin has been a timid, unaggressive player who isn’t resourceful enough to make an impact without the ball and isn’t efficient enough offensively to be a focal point of the offense. I don’t disagree that a new offensive system may do him some good, but I can’t realistically see Larry Drew changing Marvin into a completely different person who suddenly cares about improving his game and being more aggressive with and without the basketball.

Grandad

July 20th, 2010
12:27 pm

TS

You are correct – (I don’t know you) – personally.
-Therefore-
I should have said:
“I figure I have aggravated the heck outa’ you”
Responding to your 3 points:
(1) I assure you that I do. [blogging is a pastime]
(2) I don’t know you personally / but I know your personality as a blogger,
as you know mine. As we all do. *[the regulars] As we are a community.
(3) I’m having a most wonderful day & I wish you a nice day & a great life.
*John 3:16, [Greater Purpose]

northcyde

July 20th, 2010
12:30 pm

Question for the blog . . . what do you think the scoring averages and FG% of each Hawk will be in a typical game, if this is the team we basically roll with:

STARTERS

PG: Teague
G: Johnson
F: Marvin
PF: Smoove
C: Horford

BENCH

G: Jam. Crawford
G: Bibby
G: Jor. Crawford
G/F: Evans
F: Aminu/Hendrix
C: Zaza
C: Collins

That’s 12 guys. Of course, if you don’t think all 12 guys will contribute on a nightly basis, you only have to give the points and FG% to the people who you’ll think will contribute.

But on a typical night . . what will these guys score and shoot?

If you answer this, really think about it. Even add up your point totals at the end, to see if it’s realistic or unrealistic for the Hawks to score that little . . or score that much.

I’m just interested on what people initially think these players will do next season.

Grandad

July 20th, 2010
12:36 pm

Mary Ellen

Cavalcade of this & that goin’ on.
1st one thang then another.
Haven’t even had time to be on the blog much lately.
I’ll try to catch up in a day or three.
Snowballs [plural] rollin’ down the hill in July.
whew.
I’ll holler @ you soon.
G-dad.

Rod from College Park

July 20th, 2010
12:42 pm

Ken Strickland,

It’s amazing to me how you can call anybody a hater. The guy I so called hate on actually does not produce. The guys you hate on actually do produce. Mike Woodson, actually did what he said he was going to do. He improved the team, and got to the playoffs. Did you actually think that we would beat Orlando? The team actually got better after we got Bibby. I am a realist, not a dreamer.

Anything I state about Marvin is backed up by stats and basketball knowledge, not hate. How about this, since you want to look at his whole career, the great Marvin Williams playoff averages for his career are:

26.7mpg, 39%FG, 25%3P%, 4.2RPG, and 8.4ppg.

I think we all agree that the playoffs are when players are made, and we are supposed to support a guy who makes 8mill per, was the second pick in the draft, and continues to be talked about by management as the core of this team, but puts up such awful stats in the playoffs. It’s funny to me that you won’t give Bibby or Woodson any credit or outs, but you continue to think that if Marvin is put in some magic offensive sets, he will become Larry Bird. Let me let you in on a little secret, the easiest shot to make in basketball is a point blank layup or dunk, and a WIDE OPEN jumpshot, especially if you are supposed to be a shooter.

The Marvin defensive issue was brought up by another blogger, and once again Northcyde’s statistics prove that Marvin is not an above average defender, which I have been saying for the past two years. A good player, would not let Flip Murray or Jamal Crawford come in and effect their games so much. His minutes have actually stayed over 30mpg average. Horfords game improved, Joe’s stayed the same, Josh’s overall game has improved. So why is Marvin the only one who has regressed? To continue this crap about if Marvin plays in the triangle, or the princeton offense he will be Larry Bird, is speculation, and I don’t deal in that.

Once again, all you old heads need to get a hip hop dictionary and understand what the term hate is. If a guy is underperforming, and not doing his job, it’s not hating. That is called criticizing. I would be hating if I said Lebron or Kobe are terrible basketball players. That’s hating. Marvin is not a good basketball player. That is a fact.

Macaroni Tony

July 20th, 2010
12:45 pm

I just hope that MW deliver more of a offensive presence in this LD offense. I do want see different face on our team, and I hoped that we had a bucket full of money so that we could have a better bench this year. But JT0 and JC2 will have to have a strong season this year. I see a lot of Wade in JC2, and if you can get stronger then he would be a good steal in the draft.

Macaroni Tony

July 20th, 2010
12:50 pm

@ Ken, I wonder who MW will work out with this year. That three spot will be real important this year in my opinion, and I hope that we can trade Mo for a bigger back-up SF. Teams are getting stronger and I hope that we can get some more vets on this team. I think Earl Barron would be great.

Macaroni Tony

July 20th, 2010
12:55 pm

@ Northclyde

That looks good, but I would like to see more vets like an Earl Barron or Kurt Thomas, young teams like the Hawks need more vocal vets in the locker room. But I also read that Jason Collins will resign and if he does then we need him to be more productive on the offense end that 0.7 points and game will not cut it.

Najeh Davenpoop

July 20th, 2010
1:04 pm

Joe: 24 ppg
Josh: 17 ppg
Al: 17 ppg
Jamal: 15 ppg
Marvin: 11 ppg
Teague: 11 ppg
Zaza: 6 ppg
Bibby: 4 ppg
Jordan: 3 ppg

That’s 108 ppg, which seems a little high, but whatever. I do think Joe, Josh, and Al will combine for 50-60 points, Teague’s statistical value will be more in assists, steals, and free throw attempts, Zaza will put up numbers by default simply because the Hawks won’t bring in anyone better to replace him, Josh and Al will shine offensively in the new system, Marvin will continue to defer and not excel at any particular aspect of the game, Jamal will remain effective but will get less shots and more assists, and there won’t be enough backcourt minutes for either Bibby or Jordan to make a huge impact barring injury.

Najeh Davenpoop

July 20th, 2010
1:09 pm

Oh yeah, FG%s: Joe 46, Smoove 51, Horford 54, Teague 42, Jamal 45, Marvin 45, Bibby 39, Zaza 49, Jordan 41.

Those may not seem significantly higher than last year, but my guess is that the top 6 scorers all average more free throw attempts, which will be responsible for the bulk of the major offensive improvement.

northcyde

July 20th, 2010
1:22 pm

vava74

July 20th, 2010
5:17 am

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/nba-blockbusters-can-still-bomb-071910

Just read it.

************************

Vava . . . the article is BS, for the most part.

How was Shaq a “flop” in Cleveland, when Cleveland had a 40 – 13 record when he played in the regular season, and Shaq scored 12 pts and 7 rebs in just 23 minutes? Shaq did exactly what he was supposed to do in Cleveland.

Rasheed Wallace did exactly what he was supposed to do in Boston, by being a tough post defender that could score on occasion. It was his addition that was key in helping to defend Dwight Howard in the Eastern Conference Finals. Rosen focuses on Rasheed’s reluctance to go down low to score . ., but hell . . that’s ALWAYS been a knock on Rasheed. His worth to the Celtics was on DEFENSE.

Andre Miller was a godsend for Portland that finally gave them some stability at the PG position. The problems he and Roy had were at the beginning of the season. By mid-season, it was a non-issue. Portland was one of the hottest teams in the league after the All-Star break. And the stability Miller brought to that team was a big reason why. If Brandon Roy doesn’t go down right before the playoffs, it’s maybe Portland that makes the big run in the West playoffs, instead of Phoenix.

While Vince didn’t get Orlando over the top, he was STILL an upgrade over the REAL choke artrist ( Hedo Turkolgu ), who has always been vastly overrated, which is why Toronto couldn’t wait to get that guy out of there.

Ben Gordon definitely didn’t pan out in Detroit. Injuries decimated the Pistons, which should’ve given Ben a better chance to really step up the scoring. But it never materialized and even he broke down during the season.

Shawn Marion has definitely lost a step. He’s not the super athletic freak that he used to be. But he’s still one of the best defensive SFs in the game.

Brand and Davis should’ve been re-signed by their original teams ( LA Clippers and Golden St ). But both organizations played around with them, and both left. Baron actually thought that he’d be playing WITH Brand in LA, otherwise he would’ve never left Golden St. Brand’s body is definitely breaking down, although he was able to play most of the season last year.

Davis hasn’t panned out with the Clippers, partially because everybody around him keeps getting hurt. Let’s see what they do if they can have their main guys relatively healthy for an entire year. But Davis as a PG hasn’t fallen off much, if any.

And Rosen would’ve ripped Artest as well, had the Lakers not made the NBA Finals and if Artest not come up big time in Game 7. Because the reality is that Artest was pretty much horrible the entire season offensively, while great defensively. I guess he forgot that the Lakers won 8 less games last year, than they did in 2008 – 09, and Artest had a sub par year.

But Artest gets praise, while the other free agents get ripped?

Vava . . . don’t believe everything you read from these clowns.

doc

July 20th, 2010
1:26 pm

northcyde, some pretty interesting stuff on the make up of teams and how top ten fits into championships. it would be fun to go back and look at past champions to see what the correlation is. as far as the coming season with three number ones playing together the question will be how do they finish as a collective and whether it translates into a champion not where they started. seems like three number one’s counters anything else but it is as individuals with minimal support around them. anyway i am going to assume those guys are really going to feel the pressure when the playoffs come much like the big three did in boston and maybe have to overcome it before we crown them. on the other hand they might not ever lose. ;-) 96-0 is their appropriate goal, eh?

anyway northcyde very poignant and thought provoking work there. thanks

doc

July 20th, 2010
1:30 pm

@ northcyde, concur with latest posting. thought it was a poor article with little substance but much overstated opinion. brand was a flop but achilles injuries never really heal. vince has never convinced me so i thought little of that except they got what they knew they were getting. why is that an upset?

O'Brien

July 20th, 2010
1:34 pm

Joe: 22 ppg
Josh: 17 ppg
Al: 17 ppg
Jamal: 14 ppg
Marvin: 12 ppg
Teague: 10 ppg
Zaza: 6 ppg
Bibby: 5 ppg
Jordan: 2 ppg

That’s 105 points. I’ll have to really think about FG%.

My issue with Marvin is he has been the starter for the last 4 years, and the only thing he EXCELS at is being a team player. I remember that one game against the Spurs at Philips, where Marvin almost single-handedly kept us in the game in the first half. But then he disappeared for the next 3 games.

One really good game in the NW, then disappear for the next 5 games. I need more consistency, more fire and more aggressiveness.

Since he played well for UNC as a sixth man, I’m surprised the Hawks haven’t looked into bringing him off the bench, where he can get more shots, go up against bench players, and hopefully get more confidence.

Doc,

The goal is to go 98-0.

Najeh Davenpoop

July 20th, 2010
1:38 pm

“One thing that fans are guilty of (including me) is we base our opinions off what we see (or think we see). But sometimes, what we see is not what the numbers say it is.”

Numbers don’t tell the whole story either. By the numbers, the Hawks were the second best offensive team in the league last year. Watching them against the league’s elite defensive teams shows pretty clearly that this is not the case. The Hawks put up big numbers against poor defensive teams because the players on this team are individually very talented, but when they went up against teams that played good team defense and contested every jumper, the Hawks struggled. Numbers are not the end all be all — as we’ve seen with the ongoing debate between Truth-Serum and other people on this blog regarding Horford, you can usually find some set of numbers somewhere to support your argument. Trusting your eyes over the numbers is nothing to feel guilty about. In fact I’d say that as long as you are not biased, your eyes will tell you a lot more than numbers ever will.

northcyde

July 20th, 2010
1:39 pm

Najeh accepts the challenge. At 108 ppg, the Hawks would be 3rd in scoring, behind Phoenix ( 110 ppg ) and Golden St ( 108.8 ppg ). And he expects the games of JJ and Al to flourish in the offense.

OK . . anybody else?

Najeh Davenpoop

July 20th, 2010
1:42 pm

Charley Rosen, right before the 2003 draft, said LeBron James would be no more than an average NBA player.

Just saying.

northcyde

July 20th, 2010
1:42 pm

O’Brien agrees with Najeh somewhat, in that it’s gonna be Horford that benefits from the new offense, with Teague scoring in double figures. So O’Brien. . by those numbers, you pretty much expect the Hawks to still be heavily dependent on the starters, with our bench still basically being Jamal.

Najeh Davenpoop

July 20th, 2010
1:46 pm

“At 108 ppg, the Hawks would be 3rd in scoring, behind Phoenix ( 110 ppg ) and Golden St ( 108.8 ppg ). And he expects the games of JJ and Al to flourish in the offense.”

Not coincidentally, Phoenix and Golden State were top 5 in pace factor last year while the Hawks were 4th from the bottom. The Hawks were also 8th from the bottom in free throw attempts per possession. I expect them to become top 10 in both categories.

doc

July 20th, 2010
1:55 pm

o’b yup u r right: 82 and 16. a bit going on here.

terrell

July 20th, 2010
1:58 pm

Steve W, Barnes is due to make 1.6 mill next year. Your’re off by 18.4 mill.

Najeh Davenpoop

July 20th, 2010
2:12 pm

“you pretty much expect the Hawks to still be heavily dependent on the starters, with our bench still basically being Jamal.”

A reasonable expectation, considering that the only major addition to the bench duplicates Jamal’s role.

Presumably, though, Teague will be getting the starters’ minutes he deserves, which will push Bibby to the bench role to which he’s best suited and consequently improve the bench at the guard positions. Of course, unless the DASG pulls their heads out of their azzes and gets the Shaq deal done, Josh and Al will continue to be overworked and beaten down over the course of the season. If one of them gets injured and Zaza has to pick up the slack, the Hawks are screwed.

drmaryb

July 20th, 2010
2:17 pm

Rod – College Park

Re: 1242 PM: I guess I heard that!

Extremely well written and communicated point of view. Intellectually Stimulating.

bigdave

July 20th, 2010
2:24 pm

for anyone who has it.. or likes their sources; this is what the ESPN insider headlines today:

Atlanta lone suitor for Shaq?

It’s looking that way.

bigdave

July 20th, 2010
2:33 pm

The Mavericks have abandoned the idea of a Shaq signing completely — “He is out,” according to one team source — since they have four centers currently on the roster until they can move the very available Alexis Ajinca. Atlanta, then, stands as the only team with a confirmed “live” interest in O’Neal. But Shaq, at last report, still wants assurances of a healthy slice of playing time as well as a salary that starts above the $5.8 million mid-level exception, which can be achieved through a sign-and-trade with Cleveland. No team out there, including Atlanta, is known to be willing to pay Shaq more than $2 million for next season.

bigdave

July 20th, 2010
2:34 pm

IMO.. Shaq hangs it up before he plays for pennies..

Westurd

July 20th, 2010
2:35 pm

Has anyone done the numbers to see if we can trade ASG for the owner of the Chick-Fil-A in Colony Square? I have more faith in him than the ASG

bigdave

July 20th, 2010
2:40 pm

but wouldnt it be something if we get him, by default, at our price..

Najeh Davenpoop

July 20th, 2010
2:41 pm

“Has anyone done the numbers to see if we can trade ASG for the owner of the Chick-Fil-A in Colony Square? I have more faith in him than the ASG”

The only problem is that the Hawks would have to forfeit every Sunday game.

SteveW

July 20th, 2010
2:49 pm

I think Marvin’s game was highly affected by his back injury in the 08-09 season, it was tender for most of last off season, so his game declined. He also took it a little easier last year, not to re-aggrevate it. If he has done his work this off season, he will be fine and surprise us. If the back is still tender, maybe we should let the Cavs have him – he can be another UNC player who as a Cav who had to retire because of his back (speaking of one of my all time favs, Brad Daugherty).

Rod from College Park

July 20th, 2010
2:51 pm

Preciate it drmaryb.

SteveW

July 20th, 2010
2:55 pm

Scoring if everybody is healthy guess: JJ – 20
Josh 16
Al 16
Jamal 16
Marvin 12
Teague 7
Bibby 6
Evans 5
ZaZa 4
Jordan – 2

104 sounds about right to me.

drmaryb

July 20th, 2010
2:57 pm

Shaq’in UP!

It wasn’t too long ago that Shaq said, ” …. tell me how my azz taste?”
He may be saying that again, but this time to the NBA.
Shaq has severly over-stated his value in the biggest FA pool that I have ever witnessed.

His EGO may say that 2M is an insult to his legacy and may walk away – it remains to be seen.
He reminds of AI more so than Brett Farve, as it relates to knowing when to EXIT left.

If he brings his AI – attitude here, even for 2M it won’t be worth it.
Playingtime and Salary are not small issues to have – Not Now & Not this market.

drmaryb

July 20th, 2010
3:12 pm

Ken Sigura

Sir, I guess you are on vacation as well?
Well, it’s time to feed the fishes and a few piranhas that swim these murky blog waters.

This Getaway Day blog is all but – Gone!

Man up & throw us a new bone! Roo .. Roo!

(*_*)

O'Brien

July 20th, 2010
3:27 pm

I think shaq will pull a Roger Clemens and wait until mid-season to sign with a contender (if he doesn’t get the money he wants).

Northcyde,

One area of overall improvement for the hawks will be defense. Less switching, less bibby, more teague and a defensive coach in Connor.

It will be interesting to see the hawks points against average from last year and compare it to this season, since we have basically the same team.

Dr. Callemout

July 20th, 2010
3:52 pm

*I wonder who fried chicken is hiding behind*

*Probably T.S. aka The Sophomoric Fatherless Child*

Truth-Serum

July 20th, 2010
3:56 pm

Ken Sigura is also a Con and has no talent Another one of MC’s disciples.
CHILD PLEASE!

doc

July 20th, 2010
4:37 pm

o’b i was thinking the exact thing this am as i heard the talk show guys talking about him. someone is going to want shaq at his price more than likely. he can wait, stay in shape and save his body then pick and choose the way davis did a few years ago.

jroc

July 20th, 2010
4:47 pm

Wherever shaq signs his role will be very limited

Truth-Serum

July 20th, 2010
5:20 pm

DrCalled-out/saltee, get a life!

Truth-Serum

July 20th, 2010
5:24 pm

what your name isnt any good so you must use mine @

July 20th, 2010
3:56 pm
?

this is about the hawks not truth serum. You really should get some help. really

Truth-Serum

July 20th, 2010
5:25 pm

Doc Shaq is too good not to play some where.

Truth-Serum

July 20th, 2010
5:33 pm

what your name isnt any good so you must use mine @

July 20th, 2010
3:56 pm
?

this is about the hawks not truth serum. You really should get some help.

You are obsessed with a fictional blog character, please, get some help before you are completely gone. There is still hope that your life can have value. Truth-Serum is only a fictional blog character. You can create your own. But first, seriously, get some help.

Truth-Serum

July 20th, 2010
5:34 pm

Truth-Serum

*DrCalled-out/saltee, get a life!

Ken Strickland

July 20th, 2010
6:32 pm

ROD FROM CP-You claim everyone agrees that the playoffs are when players are made, and you use that as an excuse for bashing Marvin. However, you’ve conveniently omitted any bashing or judgement of JJ or Bibby, and we all know they haven’t distinguished themselves in recent playoffs.

You also made mention of Woodson doing exactly what he said he would do, and according to you, that’s increase team wins each yr. Now don’t you think that same playoff scenario should apply to HC’s as well? You see, when GM RSund gave him that last contract extension, he made it clear to Woodson and everyone else, in no uncertain terms, that he would be judged based on how well he prepared his team, and how well they performed in the playoffs.

The BS you’re espousing about him improving the regular season record was a mute point 2yrs ago. WHAT YOU FAIL TO REALIZE IS WOODSON’S FATE WASN’T BASED ON WHAT HE WANTED TO DO, OR WHAT HE DID DURING THE REGULAR SEASON. IT WAS BASED ON WHAT RSUND AND THE ASG WANTED, AND HOW HIS TEAM PERFORMED OVERALL DURING THE PLAYOFFS, PERIOD.

People like you are so focused on one player you can’t see anything else that’s taking place. You are so quick to point out the teams annual improvement in wins, and their 3 consecutive playoff appearances when it comes to Woodson. But when it comes to your favorite whipping boy, MWilliams, you act like he had absolutely nothing to do with any of that success, even though he’s been a 4yr starter.

Hell, the ASG won’t trade him, and Woodson wouldn’t bench him or limit his mins. So, shouldn’t that tell you that MWoodson’s view of MWilliams, as well as the entire Atlanta Hawks organization, is totally different from yours? And trust me, theirs is the only one that matters.

TRUTH SERUM-you obviously lack the ability to think beyond your desires and emotions, if at all in some cases. A good example is your crazy opinion that Shaq is the answer for the Hawks at center rather than AHorford. Well, after Shaq and the Heat won the NBA championship in 05-06, the next yr they were 44-37 and were swept in the 1st rd. The next yr(06-07) they were 15-67, and that’s when they decided to ship his sorry butt to Phoenix.

Before Shaq arrived in Phoenix, in 05-06 they were 54-28 and lost in the Western Conference Finals. In 06-07 they were 61-21 and made the semifinals. In 07-08 they were 55-27 and lost in the 1st rd. In 08-09, when Shaq arrived, they we 46-36 and missed the playoffs. And like Miami, they immediately sent his sorry butt packing to Cleveland.

In 07-08, with Ilgouskas as their center, Cleveland was 45-37 and made it to conference semi finals. In 08-09 they were 66-16 and made it to the NBA finals, and in 09-10, with Shaq as their starting center, they were 61-21 and got hammered by Boston in the semi finals.

Since the 05-06 season, when he won the NBA title with Miami, Shaq has been a cancer, and hurt all 3 teams he’s played for. If he can’t help improve a team as a starter, how in hell can you expect him to help a team coming off the bench, especially if he’s opposed to doing it? STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES!!

Najeh Davenpoop

July 20th, 2010
6:38 pm

“In 08-09 they were 66-16 and made it to the NBA finals”

Actually they lost to Orlando in the conference finals. This is why they brought in Shaq in the first place.

JeJe

July 20th, 2010
6:51 pm

Sund again: “I think we’re pointed in the right direction. I’m hopeful we’ll improve with some changes to our offense and our young players getting older, and we can stay among the top four teams in the Eastern Conference.””

LOL! The guy doesn’t care about winning rings. He just wants to win regular season games. He even said it himself: The blowouts vs. ORL didn’t matter because other teams got blown out.

Worst GM in the NBA.

The guy said our only goal 2 years ago was to make the Playoffs with a winning record (LOL!).

KWAME BROWN IS OUT THERE. WE HAVE A TRADE EXCEPTION, THE MLE, AND 3M CASH FROM SELLING THE PICK. IF U CAN SIGN JOE’S UNDERACHIEVING @$$ FOR $125M, HOW CAN U NOT AFFORD FREAKING KWAME BROWN?

THIS IS BULLSH!T

O'Brien

July 20th, 2010
8:03 pm

Ajc staff,

What do we have to do to get a new blog?

What about in depth comments from Connor in regards to summer league? Or how teague and JC2 critique their performance.
I know things are slow in hawksville, but we are on page 7 and this blog is on its last legs.

Sautee

July 20th, 2010
8:08 pm

All Truth-serum does is Whine, whine, whine.

Over and over.

Whine, whine, whine.

And whining about having an All-Star center!

It’s like complaining about the farmers with your mouth full.

(Hint: You lose credibility)

Guess what T-s? Horford is and will be the starting center here, at the very least until he’s re-signed.

Read, ‘em and weep.

northcyde

July 20th, 2010
8:14 pm

Here are my projections:

Johnson – 22 ppg ( 47% FG )
Horford – 17 ppg ( 53% FG )

Smith – 15 ppg ( 50% FG )
Jamal C – 14 ppg ( 43% FG )

Marvin – 10 ppg ( 44% FG )
Teague – 7 ppg ( 41% FG )

Zaza – 7 ppg ( 48% FG )
Bibby – 5 ppg ( 42% FG )

Evans – 4 ppg ( 42% FG )
Jordan C – 2 ppg ( 40% FG )

103 ppg

If the goal next year is ball movement, then I have to agree that it’s probably going to be Horford who benefits the most offensively. And if Teague plays more, and is allowed to run the show, that also may mean that Jamal will get a few less shot attempts, which means less points from him.

I don’t think Teague will get “starters minutes” though. I think you may see a 3-headed monster at the point. Teague may play the most minutes at the point, but it won’t be for 25+ minutes a game. More like 16 – 22 minutes.

Teague ( 22 ) – Bibby ( 16 ) – Jamal ( 10 )

The big question amongst these 3, may not be who starts the game at the point, but who CLOSES the game at the point?

And if we don’t add another big here, that’s going to force Drew to play Zaza more minutes at center, while Horford, and maybe even Marvi, gets more playing time at the 4.

I don’t know what people expect out of Drew’s offense. I guess some think that we’re going to get a lot of lay-ups and easier shots closer to the basket. I think what will happen, is that guys will get easier looks at jumpshots.

This may help JJ out, especially from an energy standpoint. Horford should be a beneficiary of the new offense as well. Smoove, not so much from a scoring standpoint, but maybe his assists will go up.

O'Brien

July 20th, 2010
9:12 pm

I think Zaza gets more minutes at center, with Al getting more minutes at backup PF.

and I think that will work for the regular season. When given extended minutes, zaza looked better than he does in spurts.

And playing al at PF more lets us see what he has. And it lets him get a better idea of his talents.

Hopefully our frontcourt will stay healthy.

Najeh Davenpoop

July 20th, 2010
9:18 pm

“I think you may see a 3-headed monster at the point. Teague may play the most minutes at the point, but it won’t be for 25+ minutes a game. More like 16 – 22 minutes.”

At the beginning of the season, this seems likely. I thinknas the season goes along, Teague will get steadily more minutes at the point at the expense of the other two.

Najeh Davenpoop

July 20th, 2010
9:21 pm

“I don’t know what people expect out of Drew’s offense. I guess some think that we’re going to get a lot of lay-ups and easier shots closer to the basket. I think what will happen, is that guys will get easier looks at jumpshots.”

I think more than that there will be more off the ball kovement which will result in more fouls drawn. To me that is where the offense has the most room for improvement. With the athletic ability and talent that exists on this team they should be top 5 in the league in free throw attempts.

O'Brien

July 20th, 2010
10:15 pm

Najeh,

Giving teague more minutes will help with penetration, which should lead to more FT too.

bibby had 79 FT attempts all year. Plus penetration should lead to some easy shots (or foul shots for our bits).

Dietary Suppliment

July 20th, 2010
10:27 pm

Giving teague more minutes will help with penetration?

More likely giving teague more minutes will help confusion and turnovers.

Obsessed with T. S.

July 20th, 2010
10:30 pm

Sautee

July 20th, 2010
8:08 pm

Knowledge Quest

July 20th, 2010
10:39 pm

doc

July 20th, 2010
10:40 pm

truth no doubt, we know it but gm’s sometimes think they can get a bargain. the point is he will play when he wants if they all try to low ball him this summer.

JeJe

July 20th, 2010
11:07 pm

Sund again: “I think we’re pointed in the right direction. I’m hopeful we’ll improve with some changes to our offense and our young players getting older, and we can stay among the top four teams in the Eastern Conference.””

LOL! The guy doesn’t care about winning rings. He just wants to win regular season games. He even said it himself: The blowouts vs. ORL didn’t matter because other teams got blown out.

Worst GM in the NBA.

The guy said our only goal 2 years ago was to make the Playoffs with a winning record (LOL!).

KWAME BROWN IS OUT THERE. WE HAVE A TRADE EXCEPTION, THE MLE, AND 3M CASH FROM SELLING THE PICK. IF U CAN SIGN JOE’S UNDERACHIEVING @$$ FOR $125M, HOW CAN U NOT AFFORD FREAKING KWAME BROWN?

THIS IS BULLSH!T

JeJe

July 20th, 2010
11:07 pm

Enter your comments hereSund again: “I think we’re pointed in the right direction. I’m hopeful we’ll improve with some changes to our offense and our young players getting older, and we can stay among the top four teams in the Eastern Conference.””

LOL! The guy doesn’t care about winning rings. He just wants to win regular season games. He even said it himself: The blowouts vs. ORL didn’t matter because other teams got blown out.

Worst GM in the NBA.

The guy said our only goal 2 years ago was to make the Playoffs with a winning record (LOL!).

KWAME BROWN IS OUT THERE. WE HAVE A TRADE EXCEPTION, THE MLE, AND 3M CASH FROM SELLING THE PICK. IF U CAN SIGN JOE’S UNDERACHIEVING @$$ FOR $125M, HOW CAN U NOT AFFORD FREAKING KWAME BROWN?

THIS IS BULLSH!T..

Ken Strickland

July 21st, 2010
12:37 am

I don’t think LDrew or RSund agreed to resign JCollins just to see him sit at the end of the bench and do nothing, like last yr. We were pretty successful last yr with Zaza being the only backup to get mins at center. Unlike a lot of you, I don’t think LDrew, Sund, or the ASG feel we need to sign a center for the express purpose of stopping DHoward, and I agree wholeheartedly.

With Teague guaranteed to get significant mins, it adds one more player to the list of JJ, Marvin, JaCrawford and JoCrawford that can penetrate and draw fouls. It also means we’ll have at least 2 penetrators on the floor at all times. With LDrew’s commitment to playing an up tempo fast breaking style OFF, along with Teague’s speed and quickness, there’s no reason not to expect him to be able to hit 4-5 FG’s and 4-5 FT’s per gm.

You can probably expect him to go coast to coast at least once a gm. Marvin, JJ and Bibby are 3 of the NBA’s better open shooters, and LDrew’s philosophy of using screens and attacking the basket, instead of relying on shooting jumpers, will give these 3 players a lot of open shots. I believe we’ll have at least 6 players, JJ, Teague, Horford, JaCrawford, Marvin and Smoove, averaging double figures, with Bibby coming close.

Could we use another center, YES. Do we need another center, NO. We proved that with last yrs success. We’re not going to win an NBA title next yr, so why go over board with signing players. Our title run will start next yr, after we resign Horford and make a decision on Bibby, along with the expiring contracts of JaCrawford, JCollins and MEvans.

If we trade Bibby($5.56M), and let JaCrawford($10.8M), MEvans($2.5M) and JCollins($1M) contracts expire, we can save close to $20M. I think that, along with our $3.5M trade exemption, is enough for us to resign Horford, as well as sign a quality backup center and PG. Remember, some centers that were traded, and those that decided not to opt out of the final yr of their contracts, will be FA after the season.

Rev in Tampa

July 21st, 2010
1:34 am

Ken, your confidence and well-reasoned post buoys my hope. Maybe next year is a necessary growth and transition year (Teague new at point, Drew new as coach, new offensive scheme, new defensive scheme, and flushing out expensive and unnecessary contracts).

As I think about it more, the more reasonable your post becomes. For instance, what if the Hawks break the bank for Shaq and Teague is not ready, or Drew is a flop, or someone gets hurt. If everything does not go PERFECTLY well, then we have set ourselves irretrievably backwards. At some point you have to go “all in” but right now there are too many unknown variables to make it a prudent bet.

I don’t like exercising patience when my job as a fan during the off-season is to dream big.

Rod from College Park

July 21st, 2010
3:51 am

“Marvin, JJ and Bibby are 3 of the NBA’s better open shooters”

?????? Wow!!!! No need to even argue with you anymore.

vava74

July 21st, 2010
3:55 am

Northcyde,

Not impressed at all with your rebuttal of Rosen’s piece.

Shaq was a flop for Cleveland and that was clear in playoffs when EVERYONE with a brain noticed that CLE should have ran more against the elderly celtics and instead played into their trap.

Also, it was vastly documented that CLE’s best 5 men combinations were all without Shaq on the floor.

Turk a choke artist? And you can honestly say that in a sentence in which vince’s name is at question? Look at how easy it was for the geriatric to neutralise ORL in the playoffs and you’ll get carter’s value as a trade.

Want other examples not mentioned by Rosen? Butler+Haywood = 1st round exit. More on Dallas from the past: Kidd’s trade for Devin.

Brand was a disaster not only because of the Achilles but also because he did not match their game style.

More from the past: Shaq to phoenix.

On Rasheed: he coasted the whole year and was partially responsible for a poor regular season record, which led to a more intense effort in the playoffs. Increased effort which may have been saved on those ancient bodies and might have helped boston be fresher.

Also: Sheed’s D on Howard. Granted that it was above average but Boston won the series defending the perimeter not Howard.

I could go the whole day giving you examples that match the matrix of the article: most off-season signings and in-season trades have more negative effects than positive.

Just to finalise: before the Jamison trade, Cle was playing really well with jj hickson and varejão with ilgauskas complementing them. Jamison took hickson’s minutes down to almost zero and choked (no rebounding, no fire, no 3 pts).

O'Brien

July 21st, 2010
7:24 am

vava,

I disagree with northcyde (Turk is not a choke artist, because he was a big reason why they beat Cleveland last year), but I disagree with you as well.

If we are willing to give Mike Woodson the majority of the blame in ATL, then isnt it possible that Mike Brown (not Shaq) was a big reason for Cleveland’s troubles?

You said “Cleveland should have run more”, but they didnt. Some will say Hawks should run more, but they didnt. The problem with Shaq, is he does not fit “any system” any more. A HC has to take advantage of his positives, and minimize his negatives.

Mike Brown does not know how to do that (if you read Cleveland blogs, they have similar complaints about Mike Brown that we have about Woody). And in Phoneix, all Mike D’Antoni knows is 8 seconds or less offense. How effective can Shaq be in that system?

I’m not arguing chemistry issues, because I think Shaq can be a disruption there. But I dont think we should ignore the coaching for part of the blame.

O'Brien

July 21st, 2010
7:38 am

Also, it was vastly documented that CLE’s best 5 men combinations were all without Shaq on the floor.

The 5 man combinations statistic is good and bad. The Hawks two best 5 man combination includes Bibby and Marvin, but yet we complain about Marvin and Bibby (and rightly so) all the time.

Without watching more Cavs games, I think its hard to base his performance strictly off the numbers. Also, coaching has to put the players in the right position to succeed.

vava74

July 21st, 2010
8:09 am

OB,

Charley Rosen’s article does not focus on the quality of player A or B but ON THE MERIT of the signings/trades given the teams’ own situation.

Hence, signing Shaq was a mistake for both PHO and CLE, as was a huge mistake for Philla to sign Brand and for CLE to sign Jamison (although Rosen endorsed this particular move going against his own past reviews of Jamison’s game).

With all this, I am not saying that if we signed Shaq I am sure that it would not work out. I very much doubt it would since I consider Shaq as a completely useless asset at this stage since mentally he is not willing to accept the (limited) role in which he could still help a team.

As for the 5 players combo with Bibby and Marvin being the most effective, I have not doubt of the following:

Marvin is not a liability. He does not bring enough offensively but was a very effective defender and versatile in the switch D.

Bibby can still play and I do not consider him completely washed up. The fact is that when Crawford played the point we were not effective at all since defensively we were still as bad and Crawford’s free wheeling offense is not good for huge stretches and alienated the rest of the bench, in particular when he played the PG slot.

In my opinion, Crawford played too many minutes last year and that had a very negative effect on both Marvin and Bibby’s contribution (and on the bench).

In the end, we were far more dysfunctional with Crawford’s addition than we were the year before with (gulp) Flip who had a more limited role but was more effective defensively at the PG slot and more suited for the job.

The 6 win jump can be explained by the fact that we did not have any major injuries and by Horford and Josh’s improved game, not by Crawford’s role.

Note: I like Crawford as a person since he seems a really nice guy but I doubt that he was (or even can be) well utilized.

Idiot Watch.

July 21st, 2010
8:29 am

Could we use another center, YES. Do we need another center, NO. We proved that with last yrs success. We’re not going to win an NBA title next yr, so why go over board with signing players. Our title run will start next yr, after we resign Horford and make a decision on Bibby, along with the expiring contracts of JaCrawford, JCollins and MEvans.

Gee, This is the same problem woodson faced. We knew going into the season he wasnt going far with out a center. Speaking of center, you are as usual hypercritical and illogical.

You say we cant make a title run until we sign Horford to a contract…How stupid is that ? Horford is already on the team and under contract. Is he going to play different once he signs a new contract?

I dont think so.

What you may be saying by default is we cant move horford because of his rookie contract, therefore we cant get a center until we sign and trade horford for a legitimate center. Gee…same problem woodson had but you demanded that he win a title with that. Now you are lowering the bar for Woodson II, saying we dont expect him to go far, Well make a run in a year or two.

If that is the case id rather have let woodson run the course rather than change directions and accept mediocrity for a couple of years. Basically you are conceding that we are in a rebuilding state.

You and Sund think a like. Illogically. You cursed Woodson for years as he lifted the hawks but now you are at peace with changing directions and accepting mediocrity.

Fire Sund
Fire Ken Strickland

Idiot Watch.

July 21st, 2010
8:30 am

“Could we use another center, YES. Do we need another center, NO. We proved that with last yrs success. We’re not going to win an NBA title next yr, so why go over board with signing players. Our title run will start next yr, after we resign Horford and make a decision on Bibby, along with the expiring contracts of JaCrawford, JCollins and MEvans.”

Rumplestilskin

July 21st, 2010
8:32 am

What the hell.

HAWKS NEED A CENTER OR YOU WILL NOT GO FAR IN THE PLAYOFFS AND GO BACKWARDS AS A TEAM!

HAWKS ARE LOSING GROUND FAST.

Rumplestilskin

July 21st, 2010
8:45 am

KEN STICKLAND In Tampa

July 21st, 2010
1:34 am

I love the way you agree with yourself

Based on your lunacy it was a mistake to not resign Woodson. It is paradoxical to say “the hawks are headed in the right direction” when with woodson we were headed up now by your on concession we are headed down.

I rather like the up direction as opposed to the down direction. Now we have Woodson II spending his time working (to improve?) an offense that was already in the upper half of the NBA rather than address a defense that was in the bottom half. This is idiot watch at the genesis.

Teague is a scrub. Crawford II is already better than him. Hes a better ball handler, shooter and defender. Teague is a scrub.

This team sucks because Sund is clueless. I agree with many of the voices on the site that are calling for sunds firing. Even Schultz admits Sund is lost, as are you. This team is taking backwards steps and the hope is gone out of next season.

We were right on the edge of becoming an elite team. We were just a center away. Now, mediocrity, next, lottery.

O'Brien

July 21st, 2010
9:08 am

Vava,

I will agree that fit plays a big role. And that would be my biggest concern with shaq if he came here.

Boston, who has a good coach and good player leadership passed on shaq, and lack of fit was one reason why.

But if I’m the hawks, and shaq drops his price, I would sign him and take that risk.

vava74

July 21st, 2010
9:21 am

OB,

As I said, I feel a tiny bit indecisive about Shaq, however, that indecision is not ration but merely based on a tiny bit of faith that he would fit in well and could really help us.

Decisions based in faith are usually bad, so my inclination is to always go the rational way and rationality says NO to Shaq.

O'Brien

July 21st, 2010
9:56 am

It is being reported on ESPN.com that 5 teams are in the running for Matt Barnes. Cleveland (who can pay him the most money), Toronto, Boston, Miami, or Lakers.

I wish the Hawks was one of them, because he gives us a legitimate backup to Marvin, and he is a better defender than Marvin.

If he signs with Boston, Miami, or Lakers, it would be another example of the rich keep getting richer.

Rev in Tampa

July 21st, 2010
10:14 am

Rumplestilskin, my point in agreeing with Ken S. is that we are assuming a lot of unknowns will fall into place this year to be in a position to win a championship. If we are convinced that Teague is an effective point guard then go out and get Shaq now; go “all in”. But if there is significant reservation about Teague’s readiness to step into that role then it would be foolish to get Shaq. What good is having a 20 minute per game center without a point guard that can run the offense. All the Hawks will have accomplished for sure is saddled themselves with another bloated contract (assuming the Hawks sign Shaq for the 2 year MLE). You, yourself, have serious doubts about Teague. You called him a “scrub”.

Futhermore, Rumplestilskin, if you think Teague is a scrub and you consider that Crawford II is our point of the future (surely you are not suggesting that Bibby is the pg who will take us to the next level), then it seems to me, that YOU must conclude that the Hawks are not ready to win a championship this year either. For it would take some time to develop Crawford II into a true pg.

You comment, “We were right on the edge of becoming an elite team. We were just a center away”, seems to be contradictory to your statement that Teague is a scrub. Which is more important, a starting pg or a 20 minute per game center who is only necessary to take care of D. Howard?

GeeMack

July 21st, 2010
10:17 am

O’Brien

Smart draft picks (Andrew Bynum), Great trades (Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom), & Great FA pick ups (Ron Artest, Steve Blake)are winning moves that allows you to pick up veteran guys at a bargain price.

When your biggest offseason moves are overpaying JJ, and hiring a rookie head coach with an unproven offensive system it’s hard to convince veteran that can help that you are serious about winning.

Also for the record I thought it was neccessay to keep JJ, but not for 6 yrs $124mil/4 yrs 80mil would have been better. He would have come off the books right at the end of his prime (32).

Samuel

July 21st, 2010
10:17 am

vava74

July 21st, 2010
10:28 am

GeeMack,

Get real. Do you think JJ would have accepted that offer?

We would have lost him and still would not have the cap space to sign ANYONE remotely able to replace what he brings to the table.

Also, the Lakers and Boston both had people formerly connected to them gift wrapping major talent against almost nothing.

Lakers got Gasol from Jerry West for very little (Kwame and Marc Gasol) and Boston got Garnett from McHale for expendable pieces (Al Jefferson, …).

Tampering anyone?

GeeMack

July 21st, 2010
10:35 am

Hawks fans listen,

Unless the Heat suffer major injuries in the next few season the Heat will compete for a championship at least 4 of those 6 years. The only teams that can eliminate them in the east are the Celtics and Magic. Everyone else is chopped liver.

Ken Strickland

July 21st, 2010
10:39 am

JEJE-With Bigs at a premium this yr, as evidenced by the contracts that were handed out, why do you think no GM or HC has even offered KBrown or Shaq a contract? If you can answer that question, then maybe you will understand why the Hawks haven’t wasted their time and money on either. The team has to be in a position to resign CENTER AHorford next yr, and wasting money by committing to a 2yr contract for Shaq would be stupid and detrimental to our ability to resign Horford.

After this season, we’ll have $14.3M in expired contracts coming off the books, and Bibby’s $5.6M expiring contract will be very tradable. Take that $19.9M and add the approximately $3.5M we’re now under, and we’d end up approximately $23.4M under the luxury tax threshold. Add our $3.5M trade exemption, and we’ll be in a position to resign AHorford and seriously add the pieces to become a title contender. THINK!

As far as blaming Woodson for everything that was wrong with the Hawks last yr, I see it this way. WOODY LOVERS want to give him credit for all of the teams success over the last 6yrs. Yet, they want to blame the players for everything that went wrong, and absolve him of any blame. IF YOU’RE NOT PART OF THE SOLUTION, YOU’RE PART OF THE PROBLEM.

Woodson did absolutely nothing to address the decline of MWilliams and MBibby, or JCrawford and JJ’s habit of taking over the OFF and going ISO all of the time. He did absolutely nothing to develop JTeague, or to develop and utilize his bench.

He did nothing to improve team chemistry, and he refused to listen to his players, his assistant coaches, or address the problems with his beloved switching DEF. He refused to over come his bias against rookie PG’s, or give his starters the rest they needed for the playoffs. WHEN IT CAME TO WOODSON’S ABILITY AND WHETHER HE SHOULD BE RESIGNED, THE POWERS THAT BE, AGREED WITH ME!

Bottom line, Sund and the ASG obviously felt that Woodson was the major cause of most of the teams problems, which is why they decided to hire his assistant LDrew. Drew was totally familiar with the players, the organization and the problems Woodson created and faced. They didn’t want to hire a new HC and take the team through a complete change. They wanted to retain all of the positives that allowed the team to win 53gms and make it to the 2nd rd of the playoffs. They did want to get rid of the negatives that prevented the team and it’s players from reaching max potential, AND THAT MEANT WOODSON HAD TO GO!

If this team can win 53gms and get to the 2nd rd of the playoffs with Woodson and the issues he created and/or refused to address, then this same team can certainly win 57-60gms without Woodson and the issues he created and/or refused to address.

Melvin

July 21st, 2010
10:59 am

Ken Strick,

No other GM was offering Joe Smith and Jason Collins at the time the Hawks signed them either.

drmaryb

July 21st, 2010
11:01 am

Ken Strickland

Say what you want – That is a “Man on Fire!”.

I love me some Ken Strickland! (*_*)

JoJo the Godfather

July 21st, 2010
11:05 am

Ken…your salary #’s for next year are a little confusing…We’ll more than likely have to take something back for Bibby, so that will go against any available $’s…Also, I’m not sure why you’re saying to add the trade exception???…This is not money that we receive, and it does not allow us to go over the luxury tax threshold and not pay…It is simply a trade chip that expires in a year…Horford will be due a raise of roughly $6M next year…Crawford’s expiring deal will more than take care of that and still allow us to add our draft pick (unless traded) and save $3M…However, I’m expecting a trade soon.

Clyde

July 21st, 2010
11:09 am

Ken what you don’t realize it that other teams in the Eastern Conference have improved mightily. Some of those 53 wins came against teams that we might not beat this year.

GeeMack

July 21st, 2010
11:15 am

vava74

I’m not sure if he would have, but I saw more accomplished players accept those type offers (PP & Dirk).

Don’t forget what Memphis got out of that deal, cap relief, and Marc Gasol who has a better upside than Horford. They traded for Zach Randoph (20 ppg 11 rebs) when K. Brown salary came off the books. They weren’t winning with Pau so why keep him.

What excuse do you have for the reason Miami nabbed 3 of the top 15 players in the NBA in free agency?

We can keep making all the excuses we won’t for the Hawks not being major players in making franchise changing deals, but the bottom line is we can’t sell players on the oppurtunity to win.

vava74

July 21st, 2010
11:17 am

Clyde,

Improved “ON PAPER”.

Most off-season moves and trades never pan out as originally envisioned.

TEAM USA filled with stars struggled and lost matches against other countries which presented teams which, although over matched from a talent point of view, played collectively better.

O'Brien

July 21st, 2010
11:48 am

Geemack,

If I’m not mistaken, because of Pierce and dirk’s age, the salary cap rules says they can only get a 4 year Max deal.

JJ would have been offered a 5 year max deal ($95 mil) deal from some teams with salary cap space. So for us to keep him, we had to overpay and give him a 6 year Max deal.

Do u think stoudemire is worth 5 years $100 mil (given his previous eye injury and knee injury, and no more Steve nash)?

GeeMack

July 21st, 2010
12:04 pm

Nope! I think that’s a bad deal as well. There are 2 teams with cap space that got it right this offseason, Miami & Chicago. Unless the Hawks make additional moves they will have wasted the money it doesn’t take another year to realize this is not the group that can compete for a title.

Don’t get me wrong I thought keeping JJ was a must, but it’s going to cost the Hawks in 2 yrs when Josh & Al enter the prime of their career.

GeeMack

July 21st, 2010
12:10 pm

O’Brien

Stoudemire only makes since if you get JJ, LBJ, D-Wade, Melo, or CP3 to go with him.

Also if Josh and Al can make a jump to 18 – 20ppg apiece and 10 to 12 rebs apiece then we will forget about JJ’s deal would make more since.

O'Brien

July 21st, 2010
12:18 pm

GeeMack,

Although I like Chicago’s moves, I think they overpaid for Boozer (5 years $80 mil for an injury prone guy).

I also think the Hawks overpaid for JJ, and the Knicks overpaid for Stoudemire. I dont think Bosh is overpaid too (in Toronto, he made the playoffs once).

But its a players market, and if you lok at supply vs demand, unfortunately, thats the way the NBA works.

drmaryb

July 21st, 2010
12:26 pm

VaVa

PP & Dirk are a lot longer in the tooth than Joe. And, they are on their 3rd Max Deals,
they both opted out. I’m sure at the behest oft their Agents to make MORE not LESS money!

I’m done hearing how Dirk took less money to help his team? Help his team do what?
WIN? I think not – What has Dirk ever won besides MVP’s for his mantle and twilight years?

Let’s Keep it Real! If nothing else – at least do that!

I respect you VaVa – Big Time man, but let’s compare apples to apples.
Joe is 28 years old and PP + Dirk is = 70 years old + or – .

vava74

July 21st, 2010
12:31 pm

GeeMack, OB,

Boozer is not only injury prone, he also has NO HEART and doesn’t play anything resembling consistent D.

He is waaaay overpaid and he and Stoudamine are not at the same level that JJ is. JJ is a much more balanced and complete player.

I am confident that he will improve in all facets of the game within this system.

My main worry is if there are lingering bickering in the roster which will undermine the effort put by everyone in buying into Drew’s system.

I posted a link from Sekou’s blog where there is a pretty interesting video of Drew coaching the Summer League roster mic’ed up.

I was favorably impressed.

I also enjoyed thoroughly reading the piece on Conner and watching his interview on nba.com/hawks.

I think we made extensive progress on the coaching side.

drmaryb

July 21st, 2010
12:31 pm

VaVa

Sorry, I was responding to Gee Mack – who was responding to you.
So, Gee Mack – my last post was in response to your comments
Re: PP & Dirk.

Peace! (*_*)

Najeh Davenpoop

July 21st, 2010
12:41 pm

“PP & Dirk are a lot longer in the tooth than Joe. And, they are on their 3rd Max Deals,
they both opted out. I’m sure at the behest oft their Agents to make MORE not LESS money!

I’m done hearing how Dirk took less money to help his team? Help his team do what?”

More importantly, league rules all but prohibit Dirk and Pierce from signing max deals. The salary cap severely restricts how much salary you can pay a guy after his 36th birthday. Dirk and Pierce are making as much money as possible under the salary cap rules.

vava74

July 21st, 2010
12:44 pm

DrMaryB,

I think you should have directed your post to GeeMack.

Anyhow, thank you since you have saved me the trouble of having to prepare a full post against GeeMack.

GeeMack,

Miami got the 3 stooges on account of several factors: Wade was already there and could get re-signed under BYC rules, low taxes which make the contracts signed “for less than max” actually higher than the max elsewhere, sunshine and fiesta AND Pat Riley.

Even if we had the full salary cap available to sign all 3 to max deals, they would not sign with us.

ATL is a franchise perennially regarded negatively who drags a mantel of “shame” with it which in some cases is difficult to understand.

Very few people say anything positive about the Hawks and of all the games I watched this year only two people talked good things about the Hawks and its players, Hubie Brown and Fratello, both former coaches in ATL.

All the rest only bashed us.

drmaryb

July 21st, 2010
12:47 pm

Najeh

Thanks, IDK that? Salary Caps are also age sensitive. Man the CBA be tightening up all them
Loop – Holes! That’s whay these players need Agents to explain the contract to them before signing.

Can’t have your cousin doing your deals, or you will end up like Master P & Ricky Williams.
Playing for the – Love of the Game and Broke.

(*_*)

Ken Strickland

July 21st, 2010
12:52 pm

MELVIN-I don’t know about any other teams, but the Cavaliers were definitely trying to resign Joe Smith. He chose the Hawks because he averaged around 19MPG during the regular season and they all but forgot him in the playoffs.

GODFATHER-We can do exactly what Miami did when they traded Beasley’s contract for draft picks to clear enough room to sign LeBron. The trade exemption allows us to trade MEvans’ $2.5M expiring contract straight up for a player with a $6+M contract($2.5M+$3.5M=$6M). That can be done at the upcoming trade deadline. And if Jordan Crawford demonstrates he can handle NBA caliber competition as well as he handled Summer League competition, we might also see Jamal Crawford’s expiring contract traded sooner rather than later.

CLYDE-when Philly signed EBrand, weren’t they considered a much improved team. Didn’t they say the same about Chicago a couple of yrs ago, and wasn’t the same said about Washington last yr? One of our major strengths over the last 2 yr has been our ability to return all of our starters and core players. Add to that the individual progression of players like Smoove, Horford, and hopefully Marvin and Teague, along with an actual OFF and DEF system and philosophy, and we’ve accomplished a major improvement.

With all of the additions and changes going on with other teams, all that can be said realistically, is they look good on paper. There are some who are so hung up on hype, that they’re predicting Miami will win 73gms. Last yr, LeBron had 1528FGA’s and averaged 29.7PPG, while DWade had 1511FGA’s and averaged 26.6PPG. Both players dominated the ball and their respective offenses.

Then we add the 1158FGA’s and 24.0PPG of CBosh. IS THERE ANYONE OUT THERE THAT’S ACTUALLY DUMB ENOUGH TO THINK EITHER OF THESE PLAYERS CAN COME CLOSE TO THOSE NUMBERS PLAYING ON THE SAME TEAM WITH JUST ONE BALL? Neither DWade nor LeBron has ever played without the ball in their hands, or played 2nd fiddle to anyone, ever.

There will be some major adjustment and chemistry issues on that team. Look at what happened to Philly when they added just one starter, EBrand. And look at how AJamison all but disappeared when he teamed up with LeBron. What about the problems AStaudemire had when Phoenix added Shaq.

Hype doesn’t win games, and neither does a preseason roster ladened with super stars, if they don’t mesh and/or lack chemistry. Chicago improved their OFF and rebounding by adding CBoozer and KKover, but neither player will contribute much on DEF, and it’ll take DEF to beat the Hawks. Besides, CBoozer’s OFF style could end up having he same negative effect on the Bulls that EBrand had on Philly.

I don’t see any significant improvement with Orlando. Adding RJefferson isn’t going to be the boost everyone thinks. He suffered with the Spurs because they had TDuncan on the post, and it limited his ability to drive and forced him to become a jump shooter, which isn’t his strong suit. Orlando, with DHoward in the middle, presents him with the same issues he couldn’t over come with the Spurs.

Some of you look at basketball like you look at a women with a pretty face and fine body. You don’t take the time to concern yourself with whether she’s intelligent, has a pleasant personality, or whether she has aids, gonorrhea, or carries a gun or a knife and killed her last boy friend.

Clyde

July 21st, 2010
12:55 pm

But Ken the problem with the Hawks is yes we are returning all our starters but we were swept in the second round of the playoffs last year.

drmaryb

July 21st, 2010
1:00 pm

Rumple – Dumple

Go Back to sleep for another 99 years! And, stay sleep beyond that!
We really don’t NEED that racist ISH on this blog. That’s what they do over on the Falcon’s Blog.

So, go post under Orlandp Ledbetter and them fools over there.
We don’t care about your : Fried Chicken, KKK nor the “N – word” over here!

Save your breath, I will NOT read your ignorant response. And, jacking my user I’d doesn’t bother me either!
So, go geþ a job or go back to sleep – you will not be missed one damned bit.

Go- Figure! 35 names and same old tired azz BS every damned day! T I R E D.

(*_*)

vava74

July 21st, 2010
1:05 pm

Clyde,

You were the leader of the Fire Woody posse and now that you got your wish you don’t think we improved with just that step?

WTF, you are a born malcontent!!!

Woody was an extremely important factor in our demise, I would even say that he was factors 1 to 20.

Is Drew able to do better? I don’t know, however, I can hope that he will and I will stand by this hope until reality proves me wrong, something I really think will not happen.

drmaryb

July 21st, 2010
1:20 pm

Old Skoolin’

Ken Strickland, you make so much sense to me. Seems like we share the same brain cells.
The way you explain your point of view sounds so extremely logical, balanced and well
rounded. There are NO holes in your story!

If you don’t like what Mr. Strickland is saying? Then, you just don’t like Mr. Strickland.
That Man is on Fire!

(*_*). Some of you cats are just stubborn and closed minded. Many times the adversary is actually agreeing with the man – but, just argue for the sake or argument.

Listen
Share
Agree
Disagree
Learn

Just, keep it respectable and cordial. Leave that KKK crap in Forsyth. County and in the Back – Woods!

Ken Strickland

July 21st, 2010
1:26 pm

CLYDE-that doesn’t automatically mean it will happen again. Remember, RSund and the ASG got rid of the cause of that problem. We’ll address those OFF problems this yr by installing an actual OFF system that will include everyone on the floor, and a DEF system that allows our best shot blockers and DEF players to remain near the basket. No more of this stupid switching BS where our centers and PF’s are on the perimeter guarding PG’s and our PG’s are under the basket guarding centers and PF’s.

We now have a HC that’s intelligent enough to actually know something about DEF, and if he doesn’t, he’s certainly confident and intelligent enough to hire someone who does, as we’ve seen with the hiring of DEF guru LConnor. We also have a HC that’s intelligent enough to know this team can’t improve defensively with MBibby at PG. And he knows it can’t improve offensively with him providing little on OFF, besides hanging out at the 3pt line launching 3’s.

Our new HC is also intelligent enough to know we can’t compete in the playoffs relying almost exclusively on ISO’s, and without an actual half court OFF system. He’s also intelligent enough to know we are a team that’s built to run, and that we’re a far more effective team when we do so. Oh, I forgot about Boston. They are a yr older, and there’s no way KPerkins will be able to contribute the 1st part of the season. JOneal is a good OFF option to RWallace, but he won’t provide them with the physical DEF they’ll need.

Besides, we have their number. They’ve had trouble over the last 3yrs trying to match up with us, and that’s with Bibby at PG. They will definitely have problems trying to match up with Teague running the show.

Rev in Tampa

July 21st, 2010
1:28 pm

Rumplestilskin, I am surprised that you are suggesting that Crawford II be the starting pg. Crawford II is a shooter. He is a better passer than anyone expected, but that does not make him an effective pg.

drmaryb

July 21st, 2010
1:31 pm

I don’t tread your post.
I scan past all the KNOWN aliases. After one or two lines of stupidity?
I realize who it is .. and immediately step on the gas … Thats called Scrollin’ & Rollin’!

don’t flatter your-self, you Sir, are NOT cute – Like me.

(*_*)

Rev in Tampa

July 21st, 2010
1:34 pm

drmaryb, I noticed in an earlier post that you live in the Aiken, SC area. I was a pastor in Aiken for nine years. It is a unique and wonderful town. I miss Aiken and all my friends there dearly.

Samuel

July 21st, 2010
1:38 pm

NJ- added A Morrow, D Favors, J Farmar, T Outlaw, D James, Coach(A Johnson)
Chicago- added C Boozer, R Brewer, K Korver,
Washington- added J Wall, G Arenas, Y Jialian, K Hinrich, (J Howard and A Thorton for a full season) Coach (S Cassell)
Milwakee- added D Gooden, C Magette, C Dougless-Roberts

Atlanta-added a 1st year head coach.

We were a combined 12-2 against those teams last year. I think it’s safe to say “WE WON”T EQUAL OR BEAT THAT THIS YEAR”. Sure, Cleveland got weaker but NY also got stronger and may not be finished so:

Where are the 53 wins coming from?

drmaryb

July 21st, 2010
1:43 pm

Rev in Tampa

Are you the guy with 35 names on here? He is very sneaky.

Rev in Tampa

July 21st, 2010
1:44 pm

Samuel, Atlanta not only added a 1st year head coach. More importantly, they removed a one-dimensional head coach.

Ken Strickland

July 21st, 2010
1:45 pm

REV IN TAMPA $ DRMARYB-I want to thank both of you for your acknowledgements. I just don’t see the doom and gloom that others seem to see for this team. Every player and every team has weaknesses, but it’s the ability to use strengths to over come those weaknesses is what makes them successful.

Under HC LDrew, this yrs Hawks will finally be able to use their speed, quickness, athleticism, bench, rookies, young players, an actual OFF and DEF system and versatility to become an elite team.

Rev in Tampa

July 21st, 2010
1:48 pm

drmaryb, I only represent myself. I rarely post on this blog but enjoy reading it. I have only posted on two different issues. Originally, I desperately wanted the Hawks to sign Shaq to contend for a championship now, but this morning I was persuaded by Ken S. that the Hawks will be stronger in the future if they are patient right now.

Sand12

July 21st, 2010
1:55 pm

Take Josh Boone best deal for the money Good defensive player I’ll come watch the games in Atlanta watched him all thru college have a college package on TV to a national championship not many NBA players have that ring. Sandi Savannah GA

JoJo the Godfather

July 21st, 2010
1:58 pm

There’s still time to improve this team…Start with the PG position. Bibby, Evans & a pick for Hinrich (I’ll keep repeating this trade until Sund falls for my jedi mind trick).

Guard positions: Starters (Hinrich & Johnson), 1st Guy off Bench (Ja Crawford), Backups (Teague, Jo Crawford).

Use the trade exception and a couple second round draft picks to trade for Julian Wright of New Orleans…Hornets have Peja as a starter and just drafted Pondexter to go with Posey as backups…Wright can play SF & PF…He’s a restricted free agent next year and Hornets may like to go ahead and have a pick or two lined up for next year’s draft.

Samuel

July 21st, 2010
2:00 pm

Defensive guru?
09-10 Opponents scored 103.78 pts against the guru’s Pacers while the switching defense surrendered only 97.02 ppg.

Rod from College Park

July 21st, 2010
2:02 pm

Ken Strickland,

“Marvin, JJ and Bibby are 3 of the NBA’s better open shooters”

“If this team can win 53gms and get to the 2nd rd of the playoffs with Woodson and the issues he created and/or refused to address, then this same team can certainly win 57-60gms without Woodson and the issues he created and/or refused to address.”

The more and more you post, the more credibility you lose. You also are not taking into account that it will take these guys a little time to learn this “magic” system. THey will be lucky to get to 50 this year. Marvin is actually probably one of the worst “open shooters” in the league. Did you watch any games last year?

drmaryb

July 21st, 2010
2:02 pm

Rev in Tampa,

Kewl. Yes Sir, I was born in Aiken, SC and lived on the border of Augusta, GA. An awesome place to
grow up, even if it was the 60’s. (smile). My Father was from Manhattan, NY, so lots of family there too.

I love my home town and life style growing up. I was a Tennis Prodigy at age 4 years and
played for the College of Charleston on a 4 year scholarship. Tennis is my Racket!
I play and teach in my spare time.

My Grandfather was a Baptist Minister when I was a kid. When were you there?

I’ve been Atlanta since 1986! Wow, does the time fly! That’s why these Hawks got to
Hurry Up and win something, before I’m too old to celebrate a champion!

(*_*)

Thanks, Sir.

Rev in Tampa

July 21st, 2010
2:10 pm

drmaryb, I left Atlanta in 1985 to go to college. I was in Aiken from 1998-2006. I had a church full of nucelar engineers from the Bomb site. Every moment was an adventure. Was your grandfather a minister in Aiken? If so what church?

drmaryb

July 21st, 2010
2:19 pm

Ken Strickland

Hey Ken, no problem baby, you know – got your back “Like a Bobby Knight tight red sweater.”
Hope you are taking care of yourself and feeling better.

You know me & how I pick my battles. I like intelligent conversations. Aye .. You know I have always been a die-hard Woodson supporter. Till the very end. But, even had to admitt his time was done here.
And, whatever we had – we had.

Just because we love each other, doesn’t mean we agree on everything. But, the level of respect
is what supports a healthy, decent conversation. As, Cedric the Entertainer would say.

I will support, L.D. Or whoever the HC would have been as well. Aye … I’m just a true blue
Hawks Fan – period. I could care less who comes or goes – just WIN more that Lose.

And, compete for a Title! I like our team, we do need some help though! Outside help
would be nice to see as well!

(*_*)

Samuel

July 21st, 2010
2:28 pm

AJC=ASG
Both broke as hel_. Where is this KenS guy?

northcyde

July 21st, 2010
2:31 pm

And while I’m here . . let me try to totally DISMANTLE Mr. Strickland’s rant against Shaq.

Ken Strickland

July 20th, 2010
6:32 pm

TRUTH SERUM-you obviously lack the ability to think beyond your desires and emotions, if at all in some cases. A good example is your crazy opinion that Shaq is the answer for the Hawks at center rather than AHorford. Well, after Shaq and the Heat won the NBA championship in 05-06, the next yr they were 44-37 and were swept in the 1st rd. The next yr(06-07) they were 15-67, and that’s when they decided to ship his sorry butt to Phoenix.</b

Before I start the post destruction, I want to say to all of you to ALWAYS check to see what a person is telling you is correct. As we saw with the Shirley Sherrod debacle yesterday, it’s always good to know the FULL STORY, before forming an opinion. So even with what I’m about to type to you here, check to see if I’m telling you the truth, or just spouting off BS.

Now for the post. The 2004 – 05 Miami team ( which won 59 games ), was actually a better team than the one that won the NBA title ( which won 52 games ). But the 52 win Heat team saw Shaq only play 59 games during the regular season. What the 52 win Heat team did, was add two grizzled veterans to put them over the top ( Antoine Walker and Gary Payton ), along with Jason Williams and James Posey.

With Shaq in the lineup, the Heat were 42 – 17. So that means without Shaq, they were 10 – 13. When he got healthy, and the Heat were at full strength, they were able to take out the team that had beat them in the Eastern Conference Finals the year before ( Detroit ), and went on to win the NBA Title by beating Dallas.

The next year, as Ken points out, the Heat only finished 44 – 38, even though they were coached by the great Pat Riley. So what happened?

Well for one, their young superstar, Dwyane Wade, got hurt and played in only 51 games. And the real killer, was that Shaq only played in 40 games. Common sense will tell you that when a team loses its two main star players for extended periods of time, that the team may suffer just a little bit . . or a lot in the case of the Heat.

Record without Dwyane Wade in the lineup that year . . . 17 – 13
Record without Shaq in the lineup that year . . . 19 – 23

The next year, the Heat REALLY bottom out, and only post a 15 – 67 record. So what happened?

This time, the Heat struggle right out the gate with D-Wade missing the first part of November due to injury. They had also lost key shooters in their title run with the departure of long range shooters James Posey ( who was a part of Boston’s title run that same year ) and Jason Kapono. Alonzo Mourning, their defensive center, only played until mid-December, before calling it quits for good.

And the big man ( Shaq ) was now just a good center ( 14 ppg – 8 rebs – 58% FG ), not a superstar center. There was no chemistry whatsoever with the Heat that year. Their window of opportunity was gone. This led to the Shaq trade for Shawn Marion.

drmaryb

July 21st, 2010
2:32 pm

Rev in Tampa

You sound pretty young – mid 40’s (like me), but hey .. I look 27. Smile
My GrandFather passed a while ago in the early ’70’s. He had a country Church named
Bethany Baptist in Bath/Langley, SC.

Yeah, my Mother moved to Aiken, SC with her older Sister and Bro-in-Law in the late
50’s to relocate there. My Uncle worked for Savannah River Plant, that’s how we ended up there.
I wasn’t even born yet. LOL! My Mother was from Florence, SC / near Myrtle Beach, SC

I like Atlanta though. Have been here quite a while – 24 years! Rooting for the Hawks since
Day 1. Time flies, seems like yesterday: Nique, Doc Rivers, John Battle, Spud Web,
Willis, Tree …. Theus. Dang! Plastic Man (Stacey Augmon) , Mookie, Smitty, Deke….

Wow!

northcyde

July 21st, 2010
2:32 pm

SMH . . I hate that there’s no edit feature on here. I wasn’t trying to bold the entire post.

Ramon

July 21st, 2010
2:36 pm

I don’t know why every one is considering Chicago to be so good last year. The Hawks played Utah pretty good last season. And I don’t see Rose being better than D. Williams. Boozer is a decent player, but Smoove can handle him one on one. And I don’t know anyone who would rather have Noah over Horford. Our backcourt is better than Chicago’s also. Also Thibodeau took so long to get a head coaching job because he’s too intense for the players. In Chicago, he doesn’t have Rivers there to smooth things over. We’ve seen before how Noah and Deng reacts to that kind of coaching.

Also, I see the Hawks still being better in the regular season than the Celtics. With this roster, Id on’t see the Hawks dropping below the 3rd seed.

Ken, you may think Zaza is a good back up C, and I would agree. However, the problem the Hawks have is other than Smoove, the Hawks have no other post players who causes opposing players to alter their shots. Smoove is the team’s only legitimate shot blocker. Blocking shots isn’t the only part of defense, but its a huge part. I honestly would even call Denver and see what the price for Chris Anderson would be.

Would any one be for trading Evans and the trade exception to Philly for Kapono?

Rod from College Park

July 21st, 2010
2:41 pm

Good Job northcyde. Could not have done it better myself.

JROLL1

July 21st, 2010
2:45 pm

ENJOY YOUR VACAY MC, YOU DESERVE IT. AND I’M WITH YOU, DOUBT ANYTHING WILL HAPPEN WITH THE HAWKS WHILE YOU’RE GONE.

Grandad

July 21st, 2010
2:49 pm

Rev in Tampa

If you listen to Ken he will both educate you & steer you straight.
Now drmaryb is a *sparkplug* & as an abettor one could not ask
for a finer choice.
Same for Big Ray & Sautee.
There are many fine folk in our community, here.
Too many to name.
However, the one of many alias’ is most farcical yet puerile.
Now, you may have been on the blog longer than myself,
if so, I’m just an ol’ [old] country boy & basketball purest.
Your blogger-name suggests we are brothers.
Hebrews 11:1

Samuel

July 21st, 2010
3:03 pm

Yea MC. I think Sund is on Vacation too.

northcyde

July 21st, 2010
3:09 pm

From Ken Strickland:

Before Shaq arrived in Phoenix, in 05-06 they were 54-28 and lost in the Western Conference Finals. In 06-07 they were 61-21 and made the semifinals. In 07-08 they were 55-27 and lost in the 1st rd. In 08-09, when Shaq arrived, they we 46-36 and missed the playoffs. And like Miami, they immediately sent his sorry butt packing to Cleveland.

**********************

To understand why Phoenix would make a move for Shaq in the first place, you have to go back a year earlier. The Suns had won 61 games in the 06 – 07 season. They were the #2 seed in the West, behind the infamous Dallas Maverick 67 win team ( that lost to Golden St in the 1st round ). After ripping through the Lakers, they faced their longtime nemesis, the San Antonio Spurs. Of course, they lost the series, partially because of the lack of depth they had upfront. But also because Steve Kerr was coming to the realization that “speedball” would never get them to championship level.

The trade of Marion for Shaq was a dramatic shift for that team. They finally got a legit big man to play the middle, while also being able to move Amare Stoudemire to PF. It was seen to be the right move for the Suns to finally get past the Spurs.

LOL . . but it wasn’t. They not only needed Shaq for more frontcourt depth, they also needed a defensive PG to stop Tony Parker. And having a bench would’ve helped too. So the Suns lose to the Spurs, once again, in the First round.

The next season, after D’Antoni is let go, Terry Porter tries to slow down the Suns and have them play better defense in order for them to win games. Shaq has his best season in 2 years ( 18 pts – 8 rebs – 61% FG ). But the Suns, and especially Amare Stoudemire, wasn’t cool with the “slow down” Suns, even though they were still 4th in pace that year. The Suns had Jason Richardson, they had Matt Barnes, but they never bought into the fact ( actually it was really Amare and Nash that didn’t buy into it ), that DEFENSE wins championships . . not speedball. That team finished 26th in defense, and it was one of the major reasons why the Suns “only” won 46 games and missed the playoffs.

Shaq’s fault? Nah. He had the #1 win score on the team that year and had the best defensive win score. Amare was 4th in defensive win score . . . Nash was 8th

But to appease the Phoenix fans that were used to “speedball”, they got rid of Shaq. As long as Nash is there, “speedball” will be successful in the win column. It won’t win them a title, but it is successful. They made a great run in the playoffs last season, due to their bench really stepping up, and due to Amare playing better defense. So you have to give them credit for at least trying to see if Shaq could put them over the top, then jettison him when the experiment didn’t work. But because they are cheap, we’ll see if loss of Amare Stoudemire can be overcome.

Rufus1

July 21st, 2010
3:32 pm

Hawks needs

I think the Hawks need a 2nd PG and a shot blocker…I will take Shawn Williams and AC Law for 500,000 none Gauranteed.

Northcyde

I am confused…is Shaq worth 2 years at the MLE or not?

GeeMack

July 21st, 2010
3:50 pm

drmaryb

In Dirks defense he was losing in the west. The Spurs & Lakers have won 9 of the last 11 titles. You can’t even mention Dirk & JJ in the same sentence.

O'Brien

July 21st, 2010
3:57 pm

I am open to Bibby and Evans for Hinrich, which would save the Wizards about $3.5 mil. I dont think the Hawks or wizards are interested though.

Ramon,

If possible, I would do the Evans and TPE for Kaponno. But with the restrictions on a TPE, I dont know if its possible to combine Evans and the TPE like that.

As for the coming season, whether the Hawks win 50 games or 57 games is not the biggest issue to me. The issue is, if we go up against Miami, Boston or Orlando in a seven game series, how will we do. That’s what we need to be concerned about.

We have already proven that we can win 50+ games. Can we win the second round?

northcyde

July 21st, 2010
3:59 pm

From Ken Strickland:

In 07-08, with Ilgouskas as their center, Cleveland was 45-37 and made it to conference semi finals. In 08-09 they were 66-16 and made it to the NBA finals, and in 09-10, with Shaq as their starting center, they were 61-21 and got hammered by Boston in the semi finals.

Let’s talk about the great 66 win Cleveland team. They looked like a juggernaut in those first 2 rounds, sweeping Detroit, then us. Then they faced Orlando. By Game 3, it was obvious what the problem was. While Big Z was decent, he couldn’t handle Howard. And Ben Wallace sure in the heck couldn’t handle Howard. Cleveland needed another big man to throw up against Howard, to see if they could get over the top. As always, Shaq was the best big man available, so they get him.

The Cavs were 40 – 13 with Shaq in the lineup last year. The games that he missed didn’t see the team fall off, like in other years. They were 21 – 8 without Shaq, which is pretty much a similar rate of winning with or without him.

Fast forward to that Boston series. Shaq’s role on that team was to supplement the frontline. He was NOT brought in to be a dominant center. He was brought in to be a solid piece in the middle that could help that frontline out. And hopefully, be the guy that could slow down Dwight Howard in a potential matchup with Orlando.

But in that series, the fan favorite J.J. Hickson barely played toward the end of the series. Anderson Varejao didn’t start a single game vs Boston. Big Z was a non-factor, not even playing in 3 of the games vs Boston.

Shaq averaged 13.5 pts, 5 rebs, and shot 52% FG and a “great for him” 66% FT in 23 minutes in the Cleveland series.

Shaq’s fault? I would have to say no again. There are too many people who underachieved in that series, and didn’t even get close to their season averages.

- Antoine Jamison ( 2nd best player on the team ): 12 pts – 7 rebs – a dismal 42% FG
- Mo Williams: shot 21% from 3 point range in the series ( was a 43% shooter during the season )
- “Prince” James: 45% FG – 27% 3FG – 4.5 TOs in the series ( plus flat out giving up in Game 5 . . a game in which Shaq was the only one playing in the game ).

*****************************

Since the 05-06 season, when he won the NBA title with Miami, Shaq has been a cancer, and hurt all 3 teams he’s played for. If he can’t help improve a team as a starter, how in hell can you expect him to help a team coming off the bench, especially if he’s opposed to doing it? STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES!!

If he’s opposed to doing it, then there’s nothing we can do. But the fact is that Shaq’s presence on his last 3 teams has NOT been the reason why those teams didn’t succeed.

The case that could be made for the Hawks, that is different than what he experienced in Phoenix and Cleveland, is that we have 2 very good PFs that we could play alongside him at all times. And because his presence takes up space in the middle, it could make those young PFs even better players. It would make life easier for our young frontcourt, instead of them having to battle to the death against bigger guys on a nightly basis.

I’ll admit. Maybe you don’t go off the deep end and trade Marvin to bring Shaq in. But he is the best big man available, and he’s the only one in the group that could dramatically change our future as a team in the short term . . both on the court, and economically at the gate.

northcyde

July 21st, 2010
4:00 pm

Rufus . . . is Shaq better than Zaza? If the answer is YES, then Shaq is worth 2 years at the MLE.

Ken Strickland

July 21st, 2010
4:01 pm

ROD FROM CP-If you look exclusively to find excuses for doubting a team or player, anyone can find them. You make an issue of potential adjustment problems Hawk players might have with LDrew’s new OFF/DEF systems. Yet, you are ready to crown Miami the new king of the East, and maybe the entire NBA, without remotely considering they could very easily have the same problems, only worse. WHERE’S THE LOGIC?

NORTHCYDE-none of what you presented will change the facts and stats I presented one bit. As I stated in a previous post, Shaq is soft, injury prone, and won’t play hurt. Both Kobe and DWade experienced that first hand, and neither player wants any part of him.

RAMON-there’s much more to good interior DEF than blocking and/or altering shots. The Bad Boy Pistons had Lambeer at center, and he certainly wasn’t a shot blocker or alterer. However, he did have 2 guards that played some serious perimeter DEF. Tell me, if shot blocking and shot altering is so important, explain why Denver was able to improve defensively after trading the NBA’s leading rebounder, shot blocker, shot alterer, and DEF player of the yr, MCamby?

I’ll tell you why. They also got rid of PG AIverson, who was a total DEF liability. They then replaced him with PG CBillups, who took their perimeter DEF to an entirely different level, which eliminated their need for the NBA’s leading shot blocker and alterer.

I’ll take a team that plays good team DEF any day over a team that depends on one player, like Orlando. If we learned anything from watching the Celtics in this yrs playoffs, we saw what an aging, injured, but gallant, team can accomplish with good perimeter and good team DEF. Both AHorford and JSmith were better shot blockers, alterer’s and defenders before we went exclusively to Woodson’s switching DEF to hide Bibby and JCrawford’s DEF issues.

JJ will be a better perimeter defender, since Teague’s presence will allow him to defend SG’s, and not be worn down defending the PG’s that routinely blew past Bibby. I see a return to the days when Smoove was changing gms with his DEF, and challenging for the shot blocking title.

One good thing did come out of the switching DEF, and that was it made MWilliams a much better and more versatile defender. Teague will use his speed and quickness at PG to fight over picks and recover quickly. And with the new requirement to play straight up man DEF and fight over picks, teams will no longer enjoy the luxury of using pick and rolls to create mismatches and destroy us, like they did consistently with Woodson.

The acquisitions of most Eastern teams, and their projected improvement, will be felt primarily on the offensive, not defensive side of the ball. The Hawks, on the other hand, will improve in both areas. JTeague alone will improve our DEF, and his speed, quickness, athleticism, penetrating ability, and one man fast break capability, will automatically improve our OFF.

JTeague will be the first PG we’ve had in a decade with the ability to penetrate and create easy scoring opportunities for others.

GeeMack

July 21st, 2010
4:10 pm

Vava74

“Boozer is not only injury prone, he also has NO HEART and doesn’t play anything resembling consistent D”.

Yeah and the Hawks showed a great deal of heart the 2 last years in the the playoffs. Being pushed to the max by teams we should destroy, and being swept by teams we should push.

terrell

July 21st, 2010
4:43 pm

Not one mention of how good Jordan Crawford looked in SL from the NBA TV crew. It’s all about John Wall and Demarcus Cousins. Wall looked good, but Cousins didnt impress me that much. Crawford looked more NBA ready than most of the guys that they’re praising. But oh well, I’m used to it. The Hawks will never get respect, until they win it all. Plain and simple.

Rev in Tampa

July 21st, 2010
4:55 pm

Grandad, thanks for the welcome. I have only been on this blog the past couple of weeks. I have learned more about the finer points of the pro game of basketball in this short time than I have by reading newspapers & magazines this past 25 years. I am also enjoying the mix of personalities.

You are correct; we are brothers – I Corinthians 2:1-4.

drmaryb

July 21st, 2010
5:07 pm

NorthCyde

Hey man! How’s everybody in Tennessee doing post-flood? Back to normal?
Great Post as always, very insightful stuff. Either Shaq is injury-prone or just old –
or sand-bagging his knees for the play-offs?

He could definitely help the Hawks, as could A.I. The problem with both these old
Super-Stars is that, are Þhey willing and able to accept the role that their team need.
IDK about Shaq, except he allegedly wants to start with significant playing time and
was looking for 8 to 10 Million/Per. It has already been well documented that Iverson
flat out refuses to come off the bench. He may agree to at the signing but, will become
disruptive when lesser talent plays ahead of him.

If Shaq wants Horford to back him up? That may be a huge issue, therefore team chemistry errodes.
IDK what Shaq’s demands are?

Ramon

Great insight re: Thibbedeau. I saw the exact same thing and actually posted that when he
was bantied about for the HC position in New Orleans. He seems extremely intense and
down right scary to me. Reminiscent of Doug Collins, maybe more so.

I saw him staring at the court in Boston round 2. I thought dude was gonna run out on the
floor and play defense himself. LOL!

Today’s player don’t respond very well and very long to micro-management IMO!
See Avery Johnson, he has taken “Little General” to a whole new level. (See Dallas).
Byron Scott, same thing – allegedly. That ISH gets old real fast in modern day sports, IMO.

Tony Dungy never yelled up a Championship last I checked. Effective communication and
treating players like men, usually does the trick.

All these FA’s will need time to gel and acclimate to all their new teams, coaches and systems. That takes some time, perhaps by the All-Star break.

(*_*)

drmaryb

July 21st, 2010
5:37 pm

Gee Mack

Hey man, How can you say in Dirk’s defense? When has Dirk ever played defense.
He is a 7 foot perimeter threat – that’s it. He doesn’t scare anyone who penetrates and plays above the rim.
I have NEVER even seen Dirk jump? He is a plant with roots on defense.

You are right though about He and Joe not being mentioned in the same sentence.
Joe does more for his team. Joe locks down his SG, switches on defense, plays point,
gets fouled like crazy but never gets a call, and leads his team in scoring and past
Round 1 consistently. How many times has Dallas been squashed in Round 1 & 2?

Joe is a complete player with 5 tools and a great attitude on the court.
I.E. Never whines about bad calls, he just balls! Joe needs his teammates to step up and help out, and a
HC who can actually set game plans and schemes on O & D.

LeBron & Dwight has a LOT more help than Joe and hasn’t won anything either.

Team … Gee Mack. … Team!

drmaryb

July 21st, 2010
5:53 pm

NothCyde

Put the stats aside for a minute, anybody cam look good on paper. But, the game is not
Played on paper – its between the ears and the lines.

If, Cleveland didn’t bring Shaq in to be dominant and WIN? Why pay him 20M to do what
Z was already doing? That’s why the GM got fired both in Phoenix and Cleveland.
For taking huge risks on Shaq and paying him 20M/per to ride the bench with injuries all year and be
average in the play offs. Its time to let the young guys play and develop that play off experience.

Shaq has been one and done all over the league lately! Sure he can help us, but he
need to come off the bench and lower his salary demands. He is NOT that 20M guy anymore.

Melvin

July 21st, 2010
6:05 pm

Philly signed Tony Battie. I thought he would have been a good addition to bench. Oh well, one more gone…

drmaryb

July 21st, 2010
6:14 pm

Ken Sigura …. Hello! ….Anybody there?

Aye …. MC has spoiled us, we usually get our daily bread – daily. And, water on the regular.
I’ve been slammed busy, but I’m headed over to Blue-Rays blog and blow up his spot from
here on out.

(*_*)

Ken Strickland

July 21st, 2010
6:17 pm

DRMARYB-co-sign on your last post. I think several of our players are very excited that Woodson is gone, and will try extra hard to prove that he, not them, was the problem. I think we can expect JJ, Smoove, Teague, Marvin, Zaza, and even JCollins, to really step it up this yr.

JJ took a lot of criticism and got booed for doing his best to fight double and triple teams to carry a limited half court offense that had few options and very little structure or continuity. RSund and the ASG obviously embraced wholeheartedly the potential of LDrew and his OFF and DEF schemes, and so did JJ, since he chose to remain a Hawk.

And according to LDrew, JJ and JTeague, Drew’s OFF system, although in limited form, was regularly used during practice sessions during the season, and the consensus was it worked very well. It’s funny how some of you can bash Hawk players like Teague, JJ, Smoove or Horford, and at the same time go out of your way to defend an aging, over the hill egotist like Shaq. WHERE’S THE LOGIC?

drmaryb

July 21st, 2010
6:30 pm

Ken Strickland & NorthCyde

Two super heavy weights, slugging it out in the 14th round!
I got my popcorn and sippy-cup (adult beverage) this is one heck-uv-a debate.
Very Scholarly and quite pragmatic!

There will be no Loser in this battle of wills and thrills!

Fantastic points and rebuttals! I got 50 on each, either way – I win!

northcyde

July 21st, 2010
6:34 pm

@ Truth . . . that first post was the star of the post that Ken wrote. I know you never took that position. I was replying to what Ken said. And I messed up the HTML because I didn’t close out the bold tag. So all of that looked like I said the entire thing . . . which I didn’t.

@ drmaryb . . . things in TN are good for the most part. Of course, if a person in an area where 4 – 6 feet of water went through their home or business, they are either stilll currently rebuilding, or had to leave the property altogether. Goverment assistance for most folks came swiftly though ( which was a surprise )

The worst thing about what happened, is that a lot of homeowners didn’t have flood insurance. And that was because the majority of insurance companies didn’t view a home near a small stream or creek as being in a “flood area”. Even if they wanted it just in case, they couldn’t get it.

@ Mr. Strickland . . you were calling Shaq “a cancer”. Shaq usually spits his venom at a team AFTER he leaves the premises, not while he’s on the team.

The demise of Miami, Phoenix, and Cleveland in the playoffs was not his fault. He did his job each and every time. Can’t say that about the players around him though.

To see what happened to us vs Orlando, and to see the subsequent mediocre to non-moves that the AJC and Sund have done so for to prevent that happening again, there is no way I can simply sit back and be satisfied at what they’ve done so far.

We were one of the worst defensive rebounding teams in the league last year. So unless Horford and Smoove are both going to average 10 boards a game, they’re going to need some help

bigdave

July 21st, 2010
6:41 pm

On Wednesday 21st July 2010, @TTwersky said:

Josh Smith: “I’m real excited to play under Coach Drew. He’s been in the program six year… When we had differences or problems on the court, we used to go to him. So I think he knows how to approach everybody, and when it’s time to police guys, he knows how to talk to people.

bigdave

July 21st, 2010
6:42 pm

On Wednesday 21st July 2010, @TTwersky said:

Josh Smith on Shaq: “If he comes to the team, that’ll be real big for us. That’ll be real big for our team. I think we’re missing a guy down there that’s gonna hold up Dwight [Howard] a little bit…”

drmaryb

July 21st, 2010
6:44 pm

Ken Strickland

Aye, bruh! Thanks for the holler back! Man I just call it like I see it. I ain’t got no stats and facts!
I leave that to the professionals! I just bringing some hot sauce and extra flavor to the
conversation.

Aye … I’m a role player on the bench, I know my worth, contribution and my limitations.
I’m just telling the fellas – what I saw had happened. LOL!
I’m gonna’ always keep it real!

It’s all Fun & Games – till you get your eyeballs poked out!

(*_*)

JeJe

July 21st, 2010
6:52 pm

Sund again: “I think we’re pointed in the right direction. I’m hopeful we’ll improve with some changes to our offense and our young players getting older, and we can stay among the top four teams in the Eastern Conference.””

LOL! The guy doesn’t care about winning rings. He just wants to win regular season games. He even said it himself: The blowouts vs. ORL didn’t matter because other teams got blown out.

Worst GM in the NBA.

The guy said our only goal 2 years ago was to make the Playoffs with a winning record (LOL!).

KWAME BROWN IS OUT THERE. WE HAVE A TRADE EXCEPTION, THE MLE, AND 3M CASH FROM SELLING THE PICK. IF U CAN SIGN JOE’S UNDERACHIEVING @$$ FOR $125M, HOW CAN U NOT AFFORD FREAKING KWAME BROWN?

THIS IS BULLSH!T……

bigdave

July 21st, 2010
6:53 pm

it appears that Rudy and Przybilla are on the market…

Brandon T Smith:
#Blazers actively pursuing trade for Rudy Fernandez. Team is willing to keep Fernandez, though, and will not give him away for “free.”#Blazers feel that situation with Fernandez has come to a head. Continuing talk about possible move has team wanting to resolve situation.

Przybilla’s name came up during possible trade discussions, but nothing is imminent for #Blazers in terms of a trade.

Ken Strickland

July 21st, 2010
7:07 pm

NORTHCYDE-Even though Orlando reached the NBA finals quicker than any expansion team in NBA history with Shaq, they still sent his butt packing. And trust me, it wasn’t because of any venom spitting he might have done AFTER HE GOT TRADED. It was because of the issues he had with Penny Hardeway, and he was trade from Miami and LA because of the issues he had with DWade and Kobe.

He was let go by Phoenix and Cleveland because he didn’t do anything to make either team better. If anything, he had an opposite affect.

O'Brien

July 21st, 2010
7:10 pm

Bigdave,

Would u do jamal Crawford for pryzbilla and Fernandez?

drmaryb

July 21st, 2010
7:30 pm

OBRIEN

No baby, we got to keep J-Quick and re-sign him for less. You know how we do – it’s the low ball game!
J-Cross will never see 10M/per ever again. He may get locked out next year, if the CBA get surly.

Rev in Tampa

July 21st, 2010
7:31 pm

JeJe, Sund will be the worst GM in the NBA if he signs Kwame

Ken Strickland

July 21st, 2010
7:36 pm

JEJE-give it a rest. The Hawks aren’t going over the luxury tax threshold just to sign an under achieving center like Kwame Brown, who’s had more chances to produce than he’s deserved. Why in hell would we tie up money in an under achiever like him when we can wait until the trade deadline and get a much better center? THINK!

BIGDAVE-I don’t know if the Hawks are willing to take on Przybilla’s $7.4M salary right now, but they might be willing to take it on around the trade deadline, when it becomes pro rated.

JeJe

July 21st, 2010
8:25 pm

Sund again: “I think we’re pointed in the right direction. I’m hopeful we’ll improve with some changes to our offense and our young players getting older, and we can stay among the top four teams in the Eastern Conference.””

LOL! The guy doesn’t care about winning rings. He just wants to win regular season games. He even said it himself: The blowouts vs. ORL didn’t matter because other teams got blown out.

Worst GM in the NBA.

The guy said our only goal 2 years ago was to make the Playoffs with a winning record (LOL!).

KWAME BROWN IS OUT THERE. WE HAVE A TRADE EXCEPTION, THE MLE, AND 3M CASH FROM SELLING THE PICK. IF U CAN SIGN JOE’S UNDERACHIEVING @$$ FOR $125M, HOW CAN U NOT AFFORD FREAKING KWAME BROWN?

THIS IS BULLSH!T….

Samuel

July 21st, 2010
8:45 pm

Shaq is one of my all time favorites. Every since he hooked up with “MY BOY” Chris Jackson down at LSU. The man has “multiple” rings and still is virtually unstoppable in the paint. He can neutralize Howard like only one or two other players in the league. Those are facts. But in all honesty, I don’t want to see him come here. I want to see what LD can do with this team. I want to see once and for all, who was right and who was wrong. Was it all Woody or did Woody have these guys overachieving. Time will tell.

bigdave

July 21st, 2010
8:48 pm

O’brien..

i would… with Rudy you get a guy that can create his own shot, can knock down an open shot from 3, and has good floor vision from the SG spot. he is an adequate replacement in that 6th man role. all while yielding a shot blocking/reb. presence in the middle. in though i doubt just Jamal makes that trade happen. such a deal also allows us to see what we have in our young guards Jeff and Jordan who will benefit from the loss of Jamal. Jordan is good for @ least 5/ppg if given minutes. honestly id cut Mo’s time if he he struggles early from 3. Jordan is a better passer, good at playing angles and passing lanes, top heavy and a stronger defender than most thought.

would you?

bigdave

July 21st, 2010
8:49 pm

* “though i doubt”

bigdave

July 21st, 2010
8:49 pm

bigdave

July 21st, 2010
8:50 pm

5 p/g yall know what i mean..

bigdave

July 21st, 2010
8:52 pm

Ken Strickland..

you’re more than likely right. at least all signs indicate that at this point..

Melvin

July 21st, 2010
9:03 pm

A Hawks fan ask TMac about coming to the Hawks on twitter:

@TheReal_Tmac Any talk with the Hawks? You have a chance to start there at the SF position and play on a contender. What you think?
about 2 hours ago via web

@Will_THFactory no talks at this point

bigdave

July 21st, 2010
9:07 pm

Truth Serum..

i respect your opinions on Horford.. honestly initially i didnt like his game at all. i even still have issues with his back to the basket offensive game. what made me turn the corner was Al’s drive to out work his opponents. i couldnt do anything but respect that. im a little concerned with his outspokenness of late about his desire to play his “natural position”. in my opinion Al is a center. id like him to recommit himself to the position and mentality. you’re on the Hawks so you sir.. are playing center. ya know what i mean? my question to you is if Al saw majority of his minutes @ PF with Josh at SF for most of his would you be content?

O'Brien

July 21st, 2010
9:14 pm

bigdave,

I would do that trade too. I know JC is very important as our SMOY. But with Drew’s offense, there should be more ball movement and better shot distribution, so I dont think we will rely on Jamal as much as we did last year.

I dont see why Jamal would not be enough for the trade. Pryzbilla is coming off an injury season, and Fernandez wants out of Portland. Meanwhile, Portland gets a guy who is healthy, can fill in if Roy gets injured, and gives them another ball handle.

Samuel,

What’s more important? Giving Larry Drew another guy who can help the Hawks (Shaq), or give him the same team just so you can compare him to Woody?

Macaroni Tony

July 21st, 2010
9:21 pm

Hawks close to adding frontcourt depth in Josh Powell

-The Atlanta Hawks are close to addressing their need for a backup big man by acquiring Los Angeles Lakers reserve forward Josh Powell on a one-year deal expected to be for the veteran minimum $992,680, according to league sources. Powell is expected to pick the Hawks over Cleveland, Chicago and New Jersey in the next couple of days.

The 27-year-old Powell has played the last two seasons for the Lakers after signing with them in 2007. Injuries to starting center Andrew Bynum created time for Powell as a backup forward when Pau Gasol had to move into the middle; Powell appeared in 60 and 63 regular season games the last two years, though his minutes dropped from 11.7 per game in 2008-09 to 9.2 last season. He played in 13 playoff games this past season, including an appearance in Game 6 of the Finals against the Celtics.

Powell was well-liked among his Lakers teammates and Coach Phil Jackson, who respected the 6-9 forward’s work ethic in practice and his positive demeanor on the bench. But Powell is seeking an opportunity for more playing time, and is likely to get a little more run in Atlanta behind Josh Smith.

The Hawks have been looking for a veteran big to replace Joe Smith, who fell out of favor with former Coach Mike Woodson’s staff last season. They explored centers like Brad Miller, who wound up signing with the Rockets, and looked into free agent Shaquille O’Neal, but weren’t willing to promise him the money or minutes he was seeking.

Powell has also played for the Mavericks, who signed him out of the NBA Developmental League in 2005, along with the Pacers, Warriors and Clippers.

Ramon

July 21st, 2010
9:26 pm

Ken, not once did I say the key to a defense is having a shot blocker. But you can’t tell me that it doesn’t help. You mentioned the Pistons, but failed to mention that was in the era where Isaiah and Joe Dumars could hand check the opposition all the way down the court. Fast forward to the last Pistons team to win a championship game, did they not have 2-3 players who each were good at blocking shots (Wallace, Wallace, and Prince was a good weak side shot blocker)? I didn’t say we needed another shot blocker for the starters, but for the reserves we do. When you look at the second unit which consists of Bibby, Crawford (1), Mo Evans, Zaza, and Joe Smith, there’s no one in the back court who is good at staying in front of their man. So when the opposition’s athletic back up guards are driving the lane (as they will be able to do because we have no one to stop them from getting to the lane) who are they going to meet when they get to the bucket? Zaza? Yea, I’m sure that will intimidate them.

Najeh Davenpoop

July 21st, 2010
9:30 pm

“in though i doubt just Jamal makes that trade happen.”

I think it should. Jamal is the best player in that trade. In fact I would ask for a future pick to be thrown in the deal as well if I were the Hawks.

It would be a good trade for the Hawks though, assuming Przybilla is back to 100%. I would say it would also allow the Hawks to use their mid-level, but we all know that ain’t happening.

Najeh Davenpoop

July 21st, 2010
9:32 pm

I would prefer, though, that the Hawks simply sign Shaq and keep Jamal. I realize Jamal is a valuable trade chip, and I think I brought up the possibility of trading him on this blog first, but ideally I’d rather see him stay a Hawk.

Samuel

July 21st, 2010
9:44 pm

Samuel,

What’s more important? Giving Larry Drew another guy who can help the Hawks (Shaq), or give him the same team just so you can compare him to Woody?

I believe I addressed that:

But in all honesty, I don’t want to see him come here. I want to see what LD can do with this team. I want to see once and for all, who was right and who was wrong. Was it all Woody or did Woody have these guys overachieving.

I’m not a Native Atlantian, I moved here from Mississippi. I’ve never really liked the Hawks,even though I was bombarded with them on TBS. Since i’ve moved here I have warmed up to them because they seemed to be moving in the right direction. Plus, my CUZ got me good tickets at times, made me feel like a big shot. I’m too cheap to spend my hard earned money. I’ll just watch it on TV. The view is much better anyway.

I feel like they did “MY BOY” Woody wrong so until they prove me wrong, I can’t in all honesty pull for them. My new team is the UTAH JAZZ. Hey, Maybe they will take him out there. He can be the “BIG BAFL”- Big Air, Flat Landing. Ouch.

Samuel

July 21st, 2010
9:48 pm

Powell would be a good pick up. Isn’t he from Riverdale?

Macaroni Tony

July 21st, 2010
9:51 pm

@ Samuel, I believe that he is from Riverdale.

O'Brien

July 21st, 2010
10:14 pm

Najeh,

In a perfect scenario, Hawks would sign Shaq and keep everybody else. but with our financial limitations, we would have to trade.

But as we know, Rick Sund likes our core.

Samuel

July 21st, 2010
10:26 pm

O’Brien,

For the record, I lobbied for Shaq the last couple of years. As you can see, many here don’t appreciate the Big Fella so no I don’t want him to come here and be disrespected during his Golden years. I still say he’s a better “CENTER” than Horford..

Ken Strickland

July 21st, 2010
10:32 pm

If we sign Powell, that will bring the active roster to 12 players under contract. You know if the last 2 players signed to the active roster are minimum contract acquisitions, any other player signed will also fall in that category.

Having 2 minimum contract players on the active roster gives us the financial flexibility to make roster moves at the trade deadline.

JEJE-You’re nothing but a stubborn, overly emotional loud mouth who refuses to think or listen. You sound just like Woodson. How intelligent is it for you to say RSund only cares about winning during the regular season, when he refused to resign MWoodson even though he won 53 regular season gms and finished 3rd in the East. Sund dismissed him because he struggled as a HC during the playoffs, not the regular season.

FOREST FOR THE TREES, FOREST FOR THE TREES!!

O'Brien

July 21st, 2010
10:34 pm

Samuel,

I would like to see us sign Shaq too.

But to say he is a better center than Horford? I disagree. On a given night, maybe. But over the long haul of a season? No.

Now in the playoffs up against Howard, then yeah, Shaq might get the edge. But against Boston and Miami, I’ll take Horford.

Big Ray

July 21st, 2010
10:45 pm

Samuel,

You KNOW it wasn’t all Woody. But that’s the rub, isn’t it? Some people don’t want to believe that Woody was part of the problem anymore than they want to believe that Sund maintains a job in this league for one reason: he will always do what his bosses want him to do, and nothing else. Too bad Truth Serum and others just don’t see this.

Sund is a tool. And he’s happy being a tool, because it’s a paying job. Guys like the ASG like tools, they don’t like guys who make waves or think for themselves. They don’t want anybody thinking outside of their little box. It’s why Billy Knight ultimately left, if you think about it. Nobody wants to work for these guys…..except a TOOL.

Beware the tool, but always, always, ALWAYS beware the user of that tool.

JeJe

July 21st, 2010
10:47 pm

JOSH POWELL 1 YR FOR THE MINIMUM. LOL

CAN’T EVEN SIGN A BACKUP BIG FOR MORE THAN 1 YR AND THE MINIMUM

WORST OWNERSHIP IN SPORTS

HYPOCRITICAL ARROGANT CHEAP IDIOTS

SAYING THEY’LL GO INTO THE LT BUT THEN SAY THEY DON’T WANT TO

OVERPAYING FOR JJ (OFFERING MAX AT MIDNIGHT) AND NOT EVEN TRYING TO GET HIM TO TAKE A DISCOUNT

WORST GM IN SPORTS

RICK SUND IS AN ARROGANT IDIOT. THINKS OUR CORE WILL COMPETE FOR A TITLE (OH WAIT, HE DOESN’T WANT TO WIN A TITLE. HE JUST WANTS TO BE IN THE TOP 4)

Ken Strickland

July 21st, 2010
10:47 pm

SAMUEL-how can you say Shaq is a better center than Horford when he doesn’t equal Horford in a single stat in any category? Horford averaged 35.1MPG and played in 81gms, while your beloved Shaq played in only 53gms and averaged 23.4MPG.

How can anyone with a rational thought say an aging, slow, over weight, egotistical Shaq, who wasn’t even mentioned as a potential All Star candidate, be considered better than an actual All Star. TALK ABOUT LOSING CREDIBILITY.

bigdave

July 21st, 2010
10:49 pm

Josh Powell in the fold huh..

energy player, rebounds in traffic well, decent mid range shooter.. 6′9 @ best though..

JeJe

July 21st, 2010
10:49 pm

“How intelligent is it for you to say RSund only cares about winning during the regular season, when he refused to resign MWoodson even though he won 53 regular season gms and finished 3rd in the East. Sund dismissed him because he struggled as a HC during the playoffs, not the regular season. ”

KEN HAVE U EVER READ OR HEARD A RICK SUND INTERVIEW? OBVIOUSLY NOT. THE GUY HAS NO INTENTION OF COMPETING FOR A TITLE HERE.

HE IS A CLUELESS IDIOT WHO DRAFTED ROBERT SWIFT, PETRO, AND SENE WITH 1ST ROUND PICKS 3 YEARS IN A ROW

Samuel

July 21st, 2010
10:52 pm

Shaq don’t ride nobody’s bench. I guarantee you if he does come here, he will force LD to start him. Since Ken swears LD won’t be unfair like he said Woody was, bring on the “BIG PEACH”.

Samuel

July 21st, 2010
11:04 pm

Wrong. Shaq beat him in FG% and Blocks per game. Even though Horford played 12mpg more than Shaq he only outscored him by 2 ppg. WOW. Do we have a stat for being Dunked on or punked per game. Horford had to lead the league.

Don’t get me wrong, I like Horford but he’s hardly an AllStar caliber center. He won by default. Everybody knows that. He could be a real good PF but he will never be a great center.

O'Brien

July 21st, 2010
11:34 pm

Samuel,

I like Horford, but I’m on the fence about what kind of PF he would be. At center, there are not many traditional (good and big) centers in the game, and he has a distinct advantage most nights. At PF, I dont think his advantage will be as distinct.

I think he will be a good PF, but borderline all-star, its hard to say for sure. What we do know, is that Josh is currently a borderline all-star PF, and should get better once he cuts down on his turnovers, and cut down on his jump shots.

Clyde

July 21st, 2010
11:46 pm

Good post Samuel

Najeh Davenpoop

July 21st, 2010
11:53 pm

A 6′9″ “center” who shoots 43% for his career and is coming off a season where he averaged 7 boards per 36 minutes (2 fewer than Joe Smith for comparison).

Fantastic.

$2.4 million combined to Josh Powell and Jason Collins for this year. That’s what the #31 pick got the Hawks.

Just to remind y’all, Hassan Whiteside and Dexter Pittman are going to get paid about $500,000 a piece this year.

Grandad

July 22nd, 2010
12:03 am

TS AKA ”the Mad Hatter”

If the situation remains the same, personel, coaches,
the whole sh’bang.
[making this a non-hypothetical]
How would *YOU* go about running things:
*[you make these following (6) decisions]
(1) Who would you start 1 – 5?
(2) What would be your defensive stategy?
**[to cover up for a perceived lack of a center]
(3) Who would be your back-ups @ every pos?
(4) What would be your offensive strategy?
(5) Who would be your go to guy? (offense)
(6) Who do you appoint team captain?

cp

July 22nd, 2010
12:37 am

You gotta love the Woodrow fans……… When the front office talked about improving the roster this summer I didn’t invision Porkchop Collins and Josh Powell being those improvements. Its hard being a Hawks fan.

Clyde

July 22nd, 2010
3:33 am

Yes cp Its hard being a Hawks fan.

drmaryb

July 22nd, 2010
4:42 am

Scrub – a – Dub

Scrub-a-Dub – one Srub in a Tub.

(*_*)

JoJo the Godfather

July 22nd, 2010
7:10 am

Summary of offseason moves:

1) Replaced Mike Woodson with Lester Conner on coaching stafff.
2) Moved head coaching duties to asst Larry Drew.
3) Changed offensive & defensive game plans.
4) Replaced Mario West (150 mins played) with Jordan Crawford.
5) Replaced Joe Smith (600 mins played) with Josh Powell.
6) Committed to a shift in playing time from Bibby to Teague.

Current Roster:

Teague / Bibby
Johnson / Ja Crawford / Jo Crawford
Williams / Evans
Smith / Powell
Horford / Pachulia / Collins

Summary:

Looks like the roster is finished with the 13th spot open for an undrafted/minimum player…To me, I still see glaring weaknesses at PG, SF, and backup C…No real progress made this offseason…Grade of C-…Change in regular season wins?…Probably win a few less regular season games, especially early in the season when Teague will have some growing pains and the team is adjusting to a new scheme.

O'Brien

July 22nd, 2010
7:32 am

So CP3 wants a trade. Bad timing on his part. He should have spoken up before the draft or even earlier in the off-season when teams had cap space.

Truth Serum,

Name me 5 (there are 30 teams) bona-fide centers that our center has been able to shut down.

Please name 5 bonafide centers first.

~~MAC-ToWN~~ (Area Code 478)

July 22nd, 2010
8:00 am

Wow, Josh Powell. The Magic staff must be working relentlessly to counter this ATL move, either by adding pieces or drawing up different plays.

…..but seriously lets just hope he’s more effective and useful than Joe Smith was this past season (I think he will be)

~~MAC-ToWN~~ (Area Code 478)

July 22nd, 2010
8:04 am

Sources – Sund: “We decided on Powell because of his championship experience that may rub off on this team. We believe once you combine that with a max player like Joe Johnson, the only way to go is up”

Macaroni Tony

July 22nd, 2010
8:10 am

Powell to sign with Atlanta

Rev in Tampa

July 22nd, 2010
8:11 am

I’m still new to the blog, but I’m guessing Wood Chuck is one of the many identities of Truth-Serum.

dap01

July 22nd, 2010
8:24 am

With the 13th roster spot, do we go after a backup pg, sf or center? These are the same areas of weaknesses that we started the offseason with.

Anyway, which direction do we go?

Fundamentals

July 22nd, 2010
8:26 am

So we now have:

Teague / Bibby
Johnson / Ja Crawford / Jo Crawford
Williams / Evans
Smith / Powell
Horford / Pachulia / Collins

Not sure about Powell, but I pray he’s a high energy guy that loves D and loves rebounding. Hopefully he can clean up the glass and get points that way in the 2nd unit. At least he’s young. If we were going to steal a marginal Laker why not DJ?

I feel like we still need either a SF that can rebound, defend and shoot the 3 or a big to stop Dwight. What does Portland need in return for Joel and Rudy?

Melvin

July 22nd, 2010
8:33 am

Darius Miles is looking to make a comeback. Maybe a partial guarantee contract fits into the ASG Budget…

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/07/21/darius-milles-itching-for-nba-return/

Fundamentals

July 22nd, 2010
8:40 am

Hard to believe Miles is only 29. Kid had skills, but wasted them on stuff outside the game.

Samuel

July 22nd, 2010
8:50 am

MAC TOWN,

You’re not serious are you. He didn’t really say that, did he. Hey maybe we could sign “MY BOY” Adam “Little Larry” Morrison. Damn scrubb made me look bad. Hey, but Powell is an upgrade over Randmo and Rio.

Sautee

July 22nd, 2010
9:24 am

Truth-serum said this:

“* When ever you hear the shout “woody lover” kinds of remind me of the KKK’s N_gg_r lover as an attempt to force people ignore truth by subjecting fear of being branded and dis-associated.”

This is racist B.S. and has NO place in a public forum.

Does anyone actually FEAR that they are being “branded and dis-associated” (sic) on a freakin’ sports blog? Anyone? Buhler?

No, no one fears that. It’s just racist B.S.

SMH

To take the fear and hatred fomented by racist idiots of the past and try to reframe that as some kind of threat on a sports blog is not only INCREDIBLY STUPID, but absurdly inappropriate.

kwooden1

July 22nd, 2010
9:29 am

I like ATL looking at Josh Powell. He’s a tough guy that can play down low and get some rebounds. He’s a good change of pace to Josh Smith at the PF.

Fundamentals

July 22nd, 2010
9:29 am

Why can’t we focus on basketball here? Racism has no place anywere, anytime!

Fundamentals

July 22nd, 2010
9:31 am

kwooden1 – he didn’t get much shot in LA during his time, but was supposedly a great locker room guy. I agree to the other bloggers he’s an upgrade from Morris and Rio…and bloggers know I supported both, much to my dissappointment. I look forward to seeing his contributions to the team.

Ken Strickland

July 22nd, 2010
9:38 am

REV IN TAMPA-different names, same negative mentality. I’ve now reached the point where I’m no longer willing to engage the negative minded individuals who frequent these blogs. You can continue the remainder of the off season whining and crying about wanting to get rid of RSund, MWilliams and All Star center AHorford, as well as the Hawks falling apart without MWoodson and/or Shaq.

I see a very good season ahead for the Hawks, and that’s what I intend to focus on from now on. The DEF black hole we’ve had the past 2.5yrs will be filled with JTeague at PG. His speed, quickness, athleticism and penetrating ability will also provide offensive versatility. Teams can’t double team JJ and expect to contain Teague’s speed, quickness and penetrating ability with just 3 players.

Teams didn’t worry about double and triple teaming JJ with Bibby in the gm, because they knew all he was going to do is launch 3’s, whether they double teamed JJ or not. Bibby’s offensive approach reminds me somewhat of former Hawk PG Mookie Blalock, but certainly not his DEF. Teague adds a dimension to our OFF and DEF we haven’t had in over a decade.

As far as the idea of LDrew addressing the OFF instead of the DEF is concerned, the moment he indicated JTeague would get consistent mins, and given every opportunity to become the starting PG, he immediately addressed the DEF.

With JCollins and JPowell on board, along with Horford and Zaza, we now have a 4 headed center to battle with the big boys, with Powell and Zaza being able to play PF. Let’s see, JaCrawford, JoCrawford, MEvans, MBibby, ZPachulia, JPowell and JCollins. That’s not a bad bench.

Macaroni Tony

July 22nd, 2010
9:46 am

@ Ken,

I agree with you, we still have a good team. I feel some of these other teams are good on paper.

Fundamentals

July 22nd, 2010
9:48 am

Ken, they’re never going to see any hope. I still want a report on what our guys are doing this summer? We’re banking on organic growth per se…what are they doing? We have no idea.

Who’s your 13th man? Everyone keeps chirping about Tolliver?

Fundamentals

July 22nd, 2010
9:49 am

Toni – everyone was better on paper last year and we “exceeded expectations” by absolutely underachieving with the talent we had last year. I think we have a shot if LD can get the most out of our talent instead of going Woodson on them. Woodson just never adjusted or tried anyting new to inspire hard play.

O'Brien

July 22nd, 2010
10:00 am

dap01,

I think a backup SF would be better. We already have Teague, Bibby, JJ, Jamal and maybe even Jordan who can play spot minutes at the point.

But with Marvin’s inconsistency, and Mo being undersized, I think SF is where we need to go. Maybe Damien Wilkins will sign for the vet minimum to play for his hometown team.

Truth,

I think Al Horford is a bonafide center, and you dont. So my 5 bonafide centers may not be your 5 bonafide centers. So, in your opinion, give me 5 bonafide centers in the league right now, and then we can talk about how they compared in matchups against Al.

Fundamentals

July 22nd, 2010
10:09 am

O’Brien – everyone will always hate on Al, but he did ask for help on D & rebounding? Maybe to give himself some minutes at the 4 spot. I say the 13th man is a C and let Joe Johnson and Marvin cover the small forward spot. Joe gets stuck guarding whomever Marvin can’t handle and Mo is alot more attractive at SG than SF. Joe, both crawfords, teague and Bibby can handle point.

Truth-Serum

July 22nd, 2010
10:23 am

O’brien

You think Al Horford is a bona-fide center? I think you are a certifiable NUT. Why don’t
you come over here and hug my NUTS since you seem to be a crotch-sniffing, man-odog
Nut-Hugger. Mine are sagging, sweaty and hairy, you should really love that because
mine are bona-fide too!

You PUNK! I hate YOU!

Rev in Tampa

July 22nd, 2010
10:31 am

Fundamentals asked – “I still want a report on what our guys are doing this summer? We’re banking on organic growth per se…what are they doing? We have no idea.”

This question caused me to remember two quotes from earlier blogs where MC interviewed Josh Smith and Al Horford. The contrast between their two attitudes is jarring.

In the blog post “Al Horford’s Summer” Al told us what he is working on: “Obviously [last summer] I developed a lot more with the pick-and-pop as far as pick-and-rolling and shooting mid-range. Now I’m going to work on putting the ball on the floor more and strengthening my counter moves in post. Those are two things I will really be focused on.”

In the blog post “Camp Chatter” Josh told us what he is working on: Smoove stopped by Philips and watched some of the practice. What’s he been working on this summer? “I have been looking at some of my old tape. I am still studying what I need to work on.”

MC’s interview with Josh was in July. What has he done since the season ended? Last Saturday I laid down on the couch to decide whether I should cut the grass or clean up the garage. My grass is still uncut, my garage is still disorganized, but I had a nice nap. One area of improvement that Coach Drew needs to work on is character building among some of his players.

Al is a leader because he provides an example that others should follow. In trying to find the article for Al’s quote I re-read the blogpost “Catching Up (again) with Al Horford”. It is very encouraging to see how Al puts the team above himself.

Ramon

July 22nd, 2010
10:32 am

Fundamentals, the 13th man, has to be Damien Wilkens. We need another SF. I would like to see Carney get a look also.

Truth-Serum

July 22nd, 2010
10:32 am

O’Brien

Now what? I’m bona-fide and ready to ride. You PUNK! Al Horford is a Tool and so are You.

Truth-Serum

July 22nd, 2010
10:43 am

I like posting under the elite blogger names, but I can’t handle it when they do it to me.
I am such a little faggit, I just need a lot of attention and since I have no job, and no loved ones,
this is the only I can come for attention.

I’ve got 17 people running around the empty spaces of my head and sometimes they
bump into each other. Who knows which one will post today, but O’Brien is a smart
ass bitch and he will be dealt with today.

Al Horford is not a bona-fide center, You PUNK! So, get off my nuts!

Ramon

July 22nd, 2010
10:52 am

Rev, I think you’re totally off basis here. Josh is saying he’s studying film and working on decision making and you say that’s selfish and lazy? I haven’t heard anyone around the team ever call Josh lazy. How many times has there been when Josh was the only player hustling in the first half of a road game? Josh takes his own initiative to work with Olajuwon, Calvin Murphy, Steve Smith, and other great NBA players. How is Horford being a leader by stating PUBLICLY he’s not happy with the position he’s playing? Horford is the best Center on this team. But he’s not the best POWER FORWARD on this team, so if he’s unhappy with play Center, where else does he think he will get playing time at? Horford is too slow to be a great power forward in this league. He may become a decent power forward, but all of his ‘goto moves’ will not work with a quicker defender.

Truth-Serum

July 22nd, 2010
10:53 am

Roll Call

Najeh, Saltee, Doc, Grand-dad will you guys come out and play with me.
I’m trying to stir up some ISH, but O’Brien doesn’t want to play.

I posted as drmaryb, but she won’t bite either. I think I’m losing my MoJo.
I hope you guys are not getting tired of me and my puppets already,
I’m working on some new material. I’ve been riding Al’s back long enough,
he doesn’t make me hard anymore. Not like Saltee does.

Rev in Tampa

July 22nd, 2010
11:03 am

Ramon, I think you misunderstand Horford’s position. He has only stated publicly (in as far as I am aware) that he knows it is best for the team that he remain at center. I think it is we, the fans, who have been wanting to push him away from center to make room for Shaq. Here is the quote from Al:

“We need to get another big guy, another center, that’s able to help myself and Josh out,” he said. “We need to have someone to come in and have an impact. I think that is the position we need if we want to be any type of contender in the East.” Al said he doesn’t necessarily mean getting a center to supplant him as the starter so he can move to power forward. Rather, it could be a scenario where the new center plays a lot of minutes and L.D. can mix and match from among the new guy, Al, Josh, Zaza and any other big guys Sund adds (a Jason Collins return is a possibility if he gets in better shape). “I don’t have a problem splitting time [at center],” Al said. “I played a little four last year with Zaza in the game at the same time and I thought that was good. I know I am going to still play the five.” He said he’s fine with that (it seems odd that an All-Star has to say that). He said he knows some fans and media seem to be more concerned about his position than him. But the way he sees it the Hawks have to play to their strengths, which includes a lineup with him at center.

Being in Tampa I don’t get to watch the Hawks often, but I distinctly remember several instances where Josh walked up the backcourt because he was upset at himself, someone on the team, or the refs. That is a character issue.

Rev in Tampa

July 22nd, 2010
11:06 am

*the entire middle paragraph in my last post was lifted out of MC’s “Catching Up (again) with Al Horford.

drmaryb (*_*)

July 22nd, 2010
11:09 am

Lying-Serum

Has decided to jack my I’d this morning and has posted more of his filth, so that he can have a conversation with me by himself. This is because I refuse to post with him after he told Grand-Dad to,
“Go Fck himself!”. I have NO tolerance for his foolishness and lack of moral aptitude.

You guys can play with this schizofrenic, narcissistic – sociopath IF you like.
But, I have no interest in doing that. He is a FOOL and not deserving to have access to a keyboard much less a computer. Yall, have fun with this raging idiot, I have a business to run.

This blog was supposed to be FUN! It’s NOT fun anymore, when you have one
Douche Bag posting as 15 people and everyone’s I’d so he can have conversations with his own ignorant
Anal – Spinchter.

I saw a dog walking backwards today and I couldn’t tell if Lying-Serum was coming or going.

I’m out, Peace, I have to go save some lives today.

Ramon

July 22nd, 2010
11:13 am

Rev, that was AJC, but its another article (bad connection at work so can’t find it) where Al was speaking about wanting to play PF full time. He just made that statement this off season.

GMAN013

July 22nd, 2010
11:22 am

Just read this great story on Josh Powell!! Sounds like the Hawks got a strong leadership voice added to the team!!

http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/columns/story?id=5121114

drmaryb (*_*)

July 22nd, 2010
11:40 am

* and I forgot to add: Bipolar and Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.

drmaryb (*_*)

July 22nd, 2010
11:47 am

Rev in Tampa
Re: @ 811 AM
Either you have divine intervention or you just catch on quick!
Either way, welcome to The Highlight Factory.

Rev in Tampa

July 22nd, 2010
11:48 am

GMAN013, thanks for the article. Josh Powell is certainly more than I expected. For those who have not read the article here is just a taste:

“No matter what it is, whether it’s the energy, whether it’s the confusion on defense, the confusion on offense or certain things, we just got to find a way to bring it together as a team,” Powell said of the Lakers’ struggles before the playoffs. He’s afforded himself the right to speak some harsh words, because his hard work helped create the championship culture in the first place. “Josh is one of the reasons why we were ready to win a championship because, these guys, they come in and they push,” (Lamar) Odom said.

terrell

July 22nd, 2010
12:14 pm

Why is Tyronne Hille still on the staff???

terrell

July 22nd, 2010
12:14 pm

Hill, not Hille.

terrell

July 22nd, 2010
12:19 pm

Josh Powell > Zaza, R.Morris, and Joe Smith

terrell

July 22nd, 2010
12:22 pm

Powell only got 9 min a game in LA, but look who he was playing behind. Great pickup imo.

terrell

July 22nd, 2010
12:25 pm

Josh Powell played in 65 games last year for the world champs. Morris and Joe Smith couldn’t even get off the bench for the Hawks. lol!

terrell

July 22nd, 2010
12:28 pm

A little worried about him struggling in LD’s offense after leaving the triangle though. However, it’s a helluva lot better than leaving the triangle for Woody’s offense. lol!

terrell

July 22nd, 2010
12:32 pm

How bout T-Mac for thwe vet min? Imagine a lineup of Teague/(a healthy)T-Mac/Joe/Josh/Al on the floor at the same time.

Clyde

July 22nd, 2010
12:36 pm

Is Josh Powell a center?

Power Up In My Pants

July 22nd, 2010
12:37 pm

Looks like Chicago wants T-Mac…

O'Brien

July 22nd, 2010
12:40 pm

Terrell,

One of the reasons Joe Smith could no get off the bench is because of woody. There were games (or halves) where Joe played well, but did not see the court for the next 3 games.

terrell

July 22nd, 2010
12:46 pm

I agree Obrien. But I’d still rather have a young Josh Powell over an old Joe Smith. He can backup Josh at pf. and play spot mins. at center.

terrell

July 22nd, 2010
12:48 pm

Yes Clyde, he’s listed as a 6′9 240 lb center, believe it or not.

terrell

July 22nd, 2010
12:49 pm

BTW, He’s also listed as a forward.

terrell

July 22nd, 2010
12:52 pm

Now get Damien Wilkins and we’d have 3 hometown guys on the team. (Smoove,Powell,Wilkins). Sorry Mario, your time is up.

dap01

July 22nd, 2010
12:57 pm

Josh Powell sounds impressive.

ILL-logical

July 22nd, 2010
1:59 pm

Will Josh Powell be the Alonzo Mourning fiqure that MC feels the Hawk’s locker room so desperately needs?

terrell

July 22nd, 2010
2:11 pm

Obrien, I just read an article that said Joe Smith fell out of favor with Woodson somehow. Haha! Doesn’t everybody?(Except for maybe JJ and Bibby)

Ramon

July 22nd, 2010
2:26 pm

Ill-Logical it seems that way.

107glenwood

July 22nd, 2010
2:38 pm

asg-if you are not gonna spend money, please sell the team. ASG,yall put the whole organation in a hole for years to come with that J.J max contract. Did yall forget that Al Hofford and Jamal Crawford will be F/A at the end of this season? SMH-Hawks fan no more.

terrell

July 22nd, 2010
2:47 pm

Glenwood just bitched at the ASG for not spending $, and then bitched at them for giving JJ a max contract. Cant have it both ways. You do realize that we couldn’t spend the $ JJ recieved on other FA’s, right?

Ramon

July 22nd, 2010
2:52 pm

If a blogger has a problem with the Hawks signing a player for the minimum, who just won two rings on the Lakers while being on that team for the minimum, then something is wrong. Either way, its the minimum, he’s still young, and if he’s well liked by every one from his former team, that goes a long way.

Power Up In My Pants

July 22nd, 2010
3:04 pm

Wow, NBA.com says Powell will sign here “in the next couple of days.” Well now.

Rufus1

July 22nd, 2010
3:05 pm

I believe in Sund

The biggest complaint about this Hawks team last year was MENTALITY and Sung is trying to address it. Powell will bring a MENTAL and PHYSICAL toughness this team lacks….I love the signing.

1st Jordan Crawford = Mental toughness
2nd Josh Powell = Mental and Physical toughness

GOOD JOB RICK

Hoops

July 22nd, 2010
3:07 pm

Josh Powell is a great pick up by the Hawks!!!

I would like to see the Hawks contact the Hornets about a trade for CP3. I wonder if they would accept Marvin, Bibby, and Evans for CP3. They would get a starter in Marvin, a back up PG in Bibby, and an expiring contract in Evans. The teams that are being mentioned as possible trade partners for CP3 could not fill the Hornets needs as well as this trade would.

Rev in Tampa

July 22nd, 2010
3:18 pm

I very well could be wrong, but my understanding is that CP3 is hurt. Doubtless he could help us, but I would want to wait until the trade deadline. We would then be able to assess Teague’s progress. If Teague is meeting Drew’s expectations then the Hawks would not need CP3.

Rod from College Park

July 22nd, 2010
3:21 pm

Hilarious!!! Guys actually getting hyped up about a Josh Powell signing. Funny, it’s some of the same guys who keep making excuses for Marvin Williams. If the Hawks are depending on a guy who averages 5 minutes a game to be a locker room leader, we are in pretty bad shape.

Power Up In My Pants

July 22nd, 2010
3:26 pm

Hawks just stamped their ticket to the ECF!!!

Suckers.

JerryWest

July 22nd, 2010
3:28 pm

SHAQ- Please play 20 games+playoffs for as many years as you want
We’ll treat you like a starting pitcher+minimum practice=long painless career.

Westurd

July 22nd, 2010
3:29 pm

Al should be the centerpiece of this team. He will win a title before anyother Hawks player…………and probably in a different uniform :(

O'Brien

July 22nd, 2010
3:36 pm

Guys,

Before you propose a trade, please think about it from the other GM’s point of view.

If you have a top 5 PG on your team (although he is an injury risk, well paid, and unhappy), would you trade him for Marvin, Bibby and Mo? The same Marvin and Bibby who us fans complain about all the time.

Or would you wait for another team to come up with a better offer?

Rod,

I dont know what it is about the Hawks and these “great locker room guys”. The same thing was mentioned in the nbafanhouse article about the possible resigning of Jason Collins. Supposedly, he was a large locker room presence.

That being said, the reason I like the Powell signing, is because this is the ASG we are talking about. They are not going to spend any money, so based on the guys who fit their price-range (vet minimum), Powell seems like a good pickup.

Will he be the guy to take us to the next level? No. But maybe he can give Josh Smith enough of a rest sometimes so Josh can stay out of foul trouble, and since Powell has 2 championship rings, maybe he will be a positive influence on Josh.

Plus Powell might actually contribute on the court. I’m not thrilled, but overall, I think its a decent move.

Hoops

July 22nd, 2010
3:43 pm

Matt Barnes is still available. He does not want to go to the Cavs, who can offer him the most money. Since he has not accepted their offer, I’m guessing he is looking for a better situation. The Lakers can only offer him 1.8M. IMO the Hawks should use part of their MLE and sign him. Barnes would be a great sign for the Hawks.

doc

July 22nd, 2010
3:43 pm

yes samuel, where are the wins to come from? you didnt even comment on the obvious as the heat blow by us potentially as they werent an easy mark last year before their “modifications”. nor did you bring upthe idea we will have our way again with the celts along with a few teams in the west that got better and we stood pat. i suggested 43 wins to 46 wins and was scoffed at.

ant banks

July 22nd, 2010
4:06 pm

REASON TO BE EXCITED ABOUT NEXT YEAR? LD OFFENSIVE PHILOSOPHY:

The Princeton offense is an offensive basketball strategy which emphasizes constant motion, passing, back-door cuts, and disciplined teamwork. It was used and perfected at Princeton University by Pete Carril, though its roots may be traced back to Franklin “Cappy” Cappon, who coached at Princeton in the late 1930s.[citation needed]

The offense usually starts out with four players outside the three-point arc with one player at the top of the key. The ball is kept in constant motion through passing until either a mismatch allows a player to cut to the basket or a player without the ball cuts toward the unoccupied area under and around the basket, and is passed the ball for a layup. Having a strong post player is important because this player is critical to passing to backdoor cutters, and can draw help defense to open outside shots.

The hallmark of the offense is the backdoor pass, where a player on the wing suddenly moves in towards the basket, receives a bounce pass from a guard on the perimeter, and (if done correctly) finds himself with no defenders between him and a layup. Alternatively, when the defensive team attempts to pack the paint to prevent backdoor cuts, the offense utilizes three point shots from the perimeter. All five players in the offense—including the center—should be competent at making a three point attempt, further spreading the floor.

The offense is a very slow developing one, relying on a high number of passes, and is often used by teams facing opponents with superior athletic talent, to maintain a low-scoring game (believing that a high-scoring game would favor the athletically superior opponent).

KevinM

July 22nd, 2010
4:15 pm

Congrats for bringing in Josh Powell Sund.

There, I gave a complement and that is I guess the best we can expect from the ASG.

We tried Joe Smith and Randolph Morris last year, and got very little.

This year we counter with an inshape Collins and Powell.

It still doesn’t upgrade the C position. Here are our Dwight defenders for all those taking notes:

Al/Zaza/Collins

Someone give me the frontline you want out there to combat with Lewis/Gortat/Dwight.

I seriously don’t think that this is comparable to what gets you to a championship caliber team.
We bring in Powell where all we really need to do is slide Al down to the 4 when Josh takes a breather.

The limited minutes lineup of Smoove/Zaza or Collins doesn’t do anything for me.

Note to Sund – We haven’t addressed the need for a CENTER! We have 12 slots in place and we are only going 13 because the NBA requires it. If the NBA required 10, I know where the ASG would be on that decision.

So we now have:

Teague / Bibby
Johnson / Ja Crawford / Jo Crawford
Williams / Evans
Smith / Powell
Horford / Pachulia / Collins
A top team contending with Miami, Boston and Orlando. The 4th slot is attainable.

nobody

July 22nd, 2010
4:17 pm

are u kidding Barnes is about to sign a 1.7m deal with the Lakers. I wish we could pry him away

Stuart

July 22nd, 2010
4:18 pm

CP3 wants to be traded to a contender… how about Teague, Marvin, and Bibby for CP3… works on the trade machine (but I doubt New Orleans would bite)

Samuel

July 22nd, 2010
4:19 pm

You’ll never consistently get more than two or three passes before a shot in the NBA. You basically got 16 seconds in a half court set and NBA players are not consistently gonna move that much on offense over an 82 game + playoff season. How many coaches have tried it and failed? What makes you think a coach making 500k per year will convince Millionaires to sacrifice and do it.

Samuel

July 22nd, 2010
4:22 pm

Yea Doc,

We may sneak into the playoffs but it won’t be easy. The Knicks still got a move or two up their sleeves. They’re not gonna leave all that money on the table.

HoosierHawk

July 22nd, 2010
4:23 pm

At least he sounds like he will make Josh Smith work in practice. Lost a lot of respect for the guy when he scowled and walked back on D against the magic in the playoffs, and I didn’t see Woodson biting at the bit to replace him with Old Joe Smith.

KevinM

July 22nd, 2010
4:31 pm

Hoops, I will agree with you on the Barnes thing, but I think that ship sailed last year.

This is totally not going to happen and I hope that Sund would not seriously put this on the table:
I would like to see the Hawks contact the Hornets about a trade for CP3. I wonder if they would accept Marvin, Bibby, and Evans for CP3. They would get a starter in Marvin, a back up PG in Bibby, and an expiring contract in Evans. The teams that are being mentioned as possible trade partners for CP3 could not fill the Hornets needs as well as this trade would.

If I was NO, I couldn’t laugh hard enough at that one.

I will say that one might get you consideration for Okafor, but not for CP3. That offer there rivals the Gasol from Memphis deal. That deal is better than those pieces for CP3.

nobody

July 22nd, 2010
4:38 pm

The stars of the NBA are getting weak. Such cowards with lack of motivation. None of them are willing to win on their own anymore. If they have a bad team they want out so they can group up somewhere else and win the easy way. Jordan had a point. The players of old were focused on beating each other. Not joining eachother

~~MAC-ToWN~~ (Area Code 478)

July 22nd, 2010
4:41 pm

Samuel

July 22nd, 2010
8:50 am

MAC TOWN,

You’re not serious are you. He didn’t really say that, did he. Hey maybe we could sign “MY BOY” Adam “Little Larry” Morrison. Damn scrubb made me look bad. Hey, but Powell is an upgrade over Randmo and Rio.

………………………………….

Nah, I was joking. I wouldnt be shocked if he did though.
I really hope this Powell guy works out. The Lakers fans have nothing but nice things to say about him on all the sites/blogs I’ve come across that mention him about to sign with the Hawks.

He’s hoping for more PT and a bigger role here than in LA.

~~MAC-ToWN~~ (Area Code 478)

July 22nd, 2010
4:43 pm

terrell

July 22nd, 2010
12:25 pm

Josh Powell played in 65 games last year for the world champs. Morris and Joe Smith couldn’t even get off the bench for the Hawks. lol!

……………………………..

lol….

JoJo the Godfather

July 22nd, 2010
4:47 pm

By my count, Hawks have about $2.5M to spend on the last roster spot(s) and still stay under the luxury tax threshold…Anyone know if that is right?

tyger

July 22nd, 2010
4:52 pm

Doing back flips for Josh Powell, yeah, that’s the ticket.

People are lining up already to see Josh Powell, see those phones ringing and tickets flying off the shelf.

Wow! How’d they pull that off, genius!

Rondo

July 22nd, 2010
4:57 pm

Wow! Josh Powell. Great Pick up. Sign Will Bynum. And the hawks would have a cost friendly summer.Still wish they could have signed old man Kurt Thomas

Rondo

July 22nd, 2010
5:05 pm

One thing i hope MC realize is that he has no support on his beat crew.Be careful MC you might have the same situation that Woody had on his hand.Somebody ain’t doing there job in the office,aint keeping these fanatics up to date, and snitching and brown-nosing ready for your down fall it seems.You better be ready to kick butt and take names when you get back from vacation and let your boy Ken know he gots to go.

Rondo

July 22nd, 2010
5:07 pm

Disclaimer: Ken S. if you have had a family emergency please forgive my last comment.Peace out!

ILL-logical

July 22nd, 2010
5:38 pm

ZaZa,Marvin,Jamal and Mo add up to +- %20 of CP3 and Pega(sp). The Hawks have to prevent CP3 from going to the Magic at all costs(an unintended pun). Even a half speed CP3 is twice as good as a Jameer Nelson. And CP3 wouldn’t have to play heavy minutes here with Teague as his backup/understudy.

Love ZaZa’s community involvement-he is the most popular restaurant owner on the team- but to see CP3 hitting Josh with those lob passes and getting the Highlight Factory operating at full capacity. I am willing to bear the loss.

terrell

July 22nd, 2010
5:48 pm

Still cant believe people are bashing the Powell signing. Guess they’d rather have Joe Smith and Randawful Morris instead.

terrell

July 22nd, 2010
5:49 pm

Samuel, the Knicks have a move or two up their sleeves every year. And?

terrell

July 22nd, 2010
5:56 pm

All this negativity around here. Lord have mercy on em. lol! But seriously, add a sf and/or a pg, and I think we’ll be ok. Did’nt break the bank either, like some of you wanna be GM ’s would’ve. Quit bashing the New Coach, JJ’s contract, Marvin, etc….. “Cant knock it till you try it”(in a new system).

northcyde

July 22nd, 2010
6:01 pm

I’m going to ask you guys the same thing I asked about Jason Collins.

Have any of you actually SEEN Josh Powell play?

I hate to break this to you guys, but Marvin Williams is better at PF, than Josh Powell is. It’s incredible that some of you are calling this a “good pickup”. 99.9535% of you NEVER talked about Josh Powell possibly coming here, until that report came out.

Like Najeh said in a previous post, Whiteside and Pittman will make somewhere around 500K to 700K this season. But we’re about to invest 2.4 million on JASON COLLINS AND JOSH POWELL?

He was a Laker scrub last year, in the mold of DJ Mbenga ( whom nobody has signed yet either . . . along with Joe Smith ).

All Powell is, is another “nobody is left, so we have to sign SOMEBODY to fill out the roster” type move. I swear to GOD that a guy like Jarvis Varnado or even Wayne Chism is a better player than Josh “friggin” Powell”

LOL @ the quote Odom said about Powell. I bet JJ would say the same thing about Mario West.

Rondo

July 22nd, 2010
6:14 pm

I think Alexander Johnson would have been a better pickup than Josh Powell.I remember back in the early 2000’s in the high school b-ball tourney sectionals in albany, Ga. Three of the top b-ball prospects in the state were featured in one night.Kwame Brown,Josh Powell, and Alexander Johnson.Guess who showed out that night and stole the spot light from Kwame.No one other than AJ.I will take Powell anyday over Kwame but AJ would have been a cheaper steal.

Najeh Davenpoop

July 22nd, 2010
6:19 pm

“Still cant believe people are bashing the Powell signing. Guess they’d rather have Joe Smith and Randawful Morris instead.”

I’d rather have Hassan Whiteside or Dexter Pittman for less than half the price.

Power Up In My Pants

July 22nd, 2010
6:23 pm

Hawksquawk.net is wondering if getting Byron Scott to coach Atlanta instead of what’s-his-face would have put us in the running for CP3. Food for thought.

Najeh Davenpoop

July 22nd, 2010
6:26 pm

“You’ll never consistently get more than two or three passes before a shot in the NBA. You basically got 16 seconds in a half court set and NBA players are not consistently gonna move that much on offense over an 82 game + playoff season. ”

I think everyone who read this had their IQ drop by 50 points.

Najeh Davenpoop

July 22nd, 2010
6:29 pm

Josh Powell shoots 43% for his career. That is slightly below average… for a guard. For a forward-center, it is absolutely atrocious. Zaza is like Tim Duncan by comparison.

northcyde

July 22nd, 2010
6:30 pm

Oh . . and like I did on Hawksquawk, I’m going to apologize to all of you fans living in Metro Atlanta that I have criticized ( except for those of you who walked out on the team vs Milwaukee )

From this day forward, you will NEVER see me criticize the people in Metro Atlanta for not supporting this team more. I still stand by my beliefs about the financial responsibilities of fans, but never again will you see me tell you that you should do the same thing.

This ownership group and GM either has no clue, or they’re too “budget conscious” to take even a slight risk. Teams have found ways to make moves, even if they were over the salary cap like we are. There is no creativity, nor do they seem to have the power to close a deal ( other than a no-brainer type, like giving JJ a max contract ).

I actually thought they would go all the way cheap, and let JJ walk. But when they stepped up to the plate and secured him, I thought they were really going to try to improve the team. But all we’ve seen out of them since, are cost saving moves that don’t change the dynamic of the team even a little bit.

They REFUSE to take a risk.

They could’ve changed the entire perspective of how we view this team and the ASG themselves, had they done maybe 2 of these things.

- hire the big name coach in Avery Johnson
- Use the #31 pick to sign the best player available ( and not Daniel Orton )
- found a way to re-sign Childress
- been able to bring in Shaq.

instead . . .

- they hire the much cheaper assistant coach Larry Drew
- they sell the #31 for 3 million ( that they pocketed )
- they traded Chill for a 2nd rounder and a 3 mill TPE ( that may be too small to even use )
- and instead of Shaq, they may bring in Jason Collins and Josh Powell

As much as I DESPISE the fan apathy that some of you Atlanta fans have, it’s hard for me to ignore what is going on. And I have to admit that the organization itself may do its own self more harm, than the team does good out on the court.

I’m still going to the games. I love watching the Hawks play live. But you will NEVER hear me criticize you guys again, if you don’t go.

When you compare what could’ve been in Atlanta this offseason, compared to what may actually be in Atlanta, I see why some of you aren’t passionate about this team, and really don’t make it a priority to support them.

All I know, is that none of you EVER have to worry about another “why don’t ATL fans go to the games” tirade from me. I promise you (( bleepin )) that!

Najeh Davenpoop

July 22nd, 2010
6:33 pm

Who knows… like northcyde says, unless someone here is the world’s biggest NC State fan, none of us actually know how he plays. Maybe he is the world’s greatest position defender, loose-ball grabber (no homo), and charge taker. But statistically, he probably isn’t good enough to make the D-League All Star team. Straight up. It’s hard to imagine that any of the big men the Hawks could have had at less than half the price with the #31 pick wouldn’t be more productive.

Najeh Davenpoop

July 22nd, 2010
6:35 pm

Welcome to the dark side, northcyde.

Rondo

July 22nd, 2010
6:38 pm

Josh Powell – $992,680 Is still a steal.
I would ride the bench in L.A. for as long as i could hold on for that much money. It be sad when guys make millions and end up millions of dollars in debt. You should have stayed in LA Powell and rode on Kobes coattail a litlle longer and won one more championship.And then demanded a max contract and state you got the Robert Horry appeal when it comes to winning rings.

Najeh Davenpoop

July 22nd, 2010
6:45 pm

For those of you who are under the misconception that Powell is a good rebounder:

Powell’s 7.2 boards per 36 minutes would have ranked behind every Hawks big man last year except for Cheeseburger. In fact, he was barely ahead of Mario West in that category.

His career average of 8.7 boards per 36 minutes is more respectable but still ranks behind every Hawks big man from last season other than Cheeseburger.

Don’t be mad at me for being negative. Be mad at Rick Sund and the DASG for being incompetent.

Rondo

July 22nd, 2010
6:50 pm

Well that 8.7rebounds that the hawks didn’t have last season.He is a good addition and less a risk than bringing in a miserable locker room destroying Shaq.

Rondo

July 22nd, 2010
6:52 pm

Powell = Haslem

The Bird and Indian (Reggie)

July 22nd, 2010
7:00 pm

You people make me laugh. We signed Powell because obviously something is about to go down. I believe Marvin Williams is on his way out ladies and gentlemen.

Rondo

July 22nd, 2010
7:03 pm

hey bird and indian give us the crop report

northcyde

July 22nd, 2010
7:03 pm

Rondo . . how could he have stayed? They didn’t want him back. That’s how inconsequential of a player Powell was to the Lakers last year.

When everybody started getting overpaid, I bet the ASG were like . . ” oh ish . . how are we going to be able to afford Brad Miller @ 2 million?” Then when he gets 5 million, I bet the entire front office passed out.

You really have to question the Hawks scouting department, if they see more value in guys like Collins and Powell, than they do in some of these younger guys who have played in these Summer League camps.

There’s no way anybody can tell me that a Jason Collins is a much better player than Omar Samhan or that Josh Powell is that much better than Wayne Chism.

LOL . . I can’t wait until next week comes, so I can switch gears, and go into football mode.

Rondo

July 22nd, 2010
7:13 pm

Powell was a great locker room guy for the lakers.Its just unfortunate that teams have to let good guys go to make moves for bettter players.No Powell signing with the hawks won’t translate to more wins.But it can add to cohesiveness in the locker room and a few extra fouls for D.Howard.

northcyde

July 22nd, 2010
7:59 pm

Great locker room guys don’t win games . . . great PLAYERS do. Give me an a-hole that actually can produce on the court, than a great locker room guy that is nothing more than a cheerleader on the bench, any day of the week.

**********

You just have to wonder “what if” sometimes. What if the Hawks had made every possible move that they could’ve made this summer. What would the fan base’s attitude be then?

- hired Avery as coach
- signed Chill to a 5yr – 30 mill deal
- drafted either Pittman or Whiteside @ #31
- traded Marvin for Shaq ( 2yrs – 14 mill )
- signed my boy Chism at league minuimum

This is your team

PG: Teague – Bibby
G: Johnson – Jamal C – Jordan C
SF: Childress – Evans
PF: Smith – Whiteside/Pittman – Chism
C: Horford – Shaq – Zaza

I mean damn. You lose Woody ( which 90% of the fan base hated ). You lose Marvin ( which 50% of the fan base hates ). You lose 4 absolute scrub players ( Collins, Joe Smith, Mario, Randolph Morris ).

You add Chill . . you add Shaq . . you add a young guard who can create his own shot, and make it . . . you add a young guy who can give you spot minutes on the frontline at PF or C . . and you add another young guy to fill out the roster as the 13th man . . who is one of the most beloved and respected athletes in U. of Tennessee history ( because of his chatacter and leadership on the court . . if you want a “good scrub locker room guy” )

And you’re in Luxury Tax land, but barely.

A squad like that, I think, would’ve at least gave the fans hope and optimism during the offseason that they could reach the next level. What would season ticket sales look like, if that was the team we rolled with next season?

galaker

July 22nd, 2010
8:04 pm

hawks have just added a player that knows and has experienced what it takes to become champion. his laker experience and friendship with kobe has shown him what dedication and hard work can achieve hopefully he can show the young hawks what it takes

Melvin

July 22nd, 2010
8:13 pm

vava74

July 22nd, 2010
8:19 pm

northcyde,

you keep getting less and less credible. please switch the football mode sooner rather than later.

najeh,

you used to be a pretty moderate fellow. now you are over the top.

our core is pretty good and we need to live within our possibilities and what the market allows us to take.

look for instance at the Chris Paul situation: he does not consider the hawks as a destination. he simply does not want to come (and that has nothing to do with ASG’s willingness to spend or not).

the trade machine tells that a Marvin, Bibby and Jamal (plus the TPE) for Paul and Okafor (NO will only move Paul for either an All Star or if Okafor is bundled in) works, however, we would never get Paul to sign with us.

Shaq said that he would accept to play for the mid level and a bench role in SA but wants +8 million plus to start in ATL.

I will not even dwell on the benefits or non benefits of the move on court. I just want to focus on the facts: we cannot attract free agents.

On Powell: the Lakers wanted him, it was Powell that wanted a new situation with maybe more minutes. I also understand that he has ties to Georgia making us an appealing option.

It is sure that he will not be a difference maker, but have you read the ESPN piece on him? He looks to be a very solid citizen and a hard worker who is constantly working in his game.

When he got more minutes he contributed well.

Ken Strickland

July 22nd, 2010
8:20 pm

When it comes to trading for an elite player like PG CPaul, some of you need to stop dreaming. Just because you don’t like a particular Hawk player, or players, it doesn’t automatically mean another team would be stupid enough to take him or them in a trade for All Pro caliber player like CP3.

The only way we could even get the Hornets to even listen to us would be to offer Jamal Crawford’s $10.8M expiring contract, MEvans’ $2.5M expiring and JTeague’s $1.5M contract for CP3’s $14.94M contract. The numbers work: CP3-$14.94, and our combined contracts-$14.8M. We’d have to sign a backup SF if the trade was made.

Losing JaCrawford would give our bench a little less punch, but acquiring CP3 would certainly give our starting unit a lot more punch. It would also give rookie Jordan Crawford a chance to get consistent mins and develop more quickly.

We’d have to do some financial wizardry in order to resign Horford if the trade was made. However, I believe having CPaul would provide a tremendous boost to our attendance and revenue. He’d certainly be able to make our quick, fast, athletic front line perform at a much higher level.

Rondo

July 22nd, 2010
8:29 pm

northcyde You do seem to have become more agitated with the asg situation.Man i think its time to disengage and enjoy other sports.The Braves are doing well man and the Falcons are projected to be in the superbowl by many analyst.Take a chill pill before you start typing all your blogg comments in all caps.I hate all that loud talkin it makes my ears hurt.Nortcyde don’t become that guy.

Ken Strickland

July 22nd, 2010
8:42 pm

VALVA74-I’d certainly make that trade. With the trade exemption, we’d only be taking on an additional $3M, and which would put us right at, but not over the luxury tax threshold. However, we’d certainly have to go over that threshold to sign a starting SF to replace MWilliams and a backup for him.

But that would be one hell of a starting lineup and a deep, versatile and talented bench.

STARTERS:
PG-CPaul
SG-JJohnson
C-AHorford
PF-JSmith
SF-MBarnes

BENCH:
PG-JTeague
SG-JCrawford
PF-ZPachulia
C-EOkafor
C-JCollins
PF-JPowell
SF-FA

I’ll bet this team could sell out Phillips arena every night, and do some serious damage in the playoffs as well.

KevinM

July 22nd, 2010
8:44 pm

Simply put, Horford’s money is coming from the eviction of one Jamal Crawford. We aren’t going to sign him back and Horford and keep this core together. Either way, the ASG is going to have to go over the cap to compete unless we just start letting players walk, like Childress.

They have committed to Joe, they have JC2 in the background

Sund isn’t doing anything erratic or with any punch. One good trade so far Sund and one wasted trade at 31. JC2 would have been a better choice had we let Joe walk, but who wants to sign here unless you are top dog.

Forget CP3; Forget Carmelo. Us hiring Scott would not have helped with CP3 IMO. This ownership group has thrown all their chips in with this core and Bibby and Zaza are going to have to have career years for this team to win A game in the 2nd round. We will be very fortunate to get there, and unfortunate because the draft is the only way this team is going to add any significant players with the recruiter being resigned.

You know, when Joe opens his mouth, it is always a memorable quote….both times.

Anyone notice how Powell is on his 6th team in 5 seasons in the league?

O'Brien

July 22nd, 2010
9:05 pm

Dennis Rodman was never a good locker room guy. How many championships did he win? Stephen Jackson had problems, but what did he do for Charlotte last year after they traded for him? They made the playoffs for the first time.

What about nut case Ron Artest? if it wasnt for him, the Lakers might not win game 7 of the NBA finals. What about Randy Moss in the NFL? My point is, being a good locker room guy will only take you so far. We could use some more talent in Hawksville.

I still think Josh Powell will be a better fit in ATL than Joe Smith and RandMo, but am I excited? No.

northcyde,

Another guy who is available that we seem to have no interest in, is Matt Barnes. It is possible that he could beat out Marvin for the starting spot (while making half of what Marvin wants), and allow us to trade marvin to address other needs, but of course, the ASG (and some of these fans) like their core.

I wonder at what point do they stop liking their core? Because 4 of our 5 starters could easily be around for the next 3 or 4 years.

vava74

July 22nd, 2010
9:12 pm

OB,

Matt Barnes is a pretty decent player but how on hearth would he be such an improvement over Marvin?

The guy only averaged more than 10ppg ONCE in his whole career and it was on a high octane offense in PHO.

Yes, he is a good defender, but in a different style, so is Marvin.

Offensively? Maybe a better 3 point shooter, however, how come he never scores more points than Marvin?

Barnes would be an excellent backup, not a great improvement as a starter.

Ken Strick,

With that trade I would move JJ to the SF slot and Mo to the starting SG slot.

I would obviously try to sign Barnes as the SF backup we would then need and a veteran PG just in case Teague did not manage the back up slot well.

JeJe

July 22nd, 2010
9:38 pm

JeJe

July 22nd, 2010
9:42 pm

WE COULD’VE FREAKIN GOTTE MATT BARNES FOR 4M A YEAR

INSTEAD WE GET JOSH POWELL (WHO DIDN’T EVEN PLAY LAST YEAR UNLESS THE WHOLE TEAM WAS INJURED).

WHAT A JOKE.

ASG HAS NO “RIGHT PLAYER” IN MIND FOR THE LUXURY TAX. THEY ARE CLUELESS IDIOTS WHO GAVE JOE THE MAXIMUM WITHOUT EVEN THINKING ABOUT WHY THE EYDID IT.

NOW WE ARE STUCK WITH THIS PATHETIC JOSH POWELL AS A BACKUP POWER FORWARD

KWAME BROWN FOR 3 M
MATT BARNES FOR 3M
TRADE DUCK FOR SHAQ
I’D DO THOSE MOVES 3948239567 TIMES BEFORE I FREAKING SIGN JOSH POWELL

Rufus1

July 22nd, 2010
9:47 pm

Josh Powell…

People are complaining about Powell at less than a 1mil per but are begging to sign Matt Barnes for 3-4mil per

Barnes Career stats
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barnema02.html

I don’t know how good powell is but he played against the best frontline in the NBA for 3 years…that has to worth something.

PS Orlando didn,t want Barnes back at 1.8mil….Why?

Melvin

July 22nd, 2010
10:41 pm

Folks have been asking for D.J. Mbenga & Josh Powell well here you go in a package deal….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOMOkZYq3jY&NR=1

Rufus1

July 22nd, 2010
10:48 pm

Melvin

July 22nd, 2010
10:55 pm

Jeff Teague and his brother Marquis also look like twins on the court when they are not shooting jumpshots…

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/marquis-teague

Hoops

July 22nd, 2010
11:11 pm

Matt Barnes and the Lakers agree to a two year-3.6M deal! Crap!!! There goes another player that the Hawks could have really used!

Clyde

July 22nd, 2010
11:55 pm

Josh Powell smgdh. We now have another 6′9 center. Now we have a guy that can defend the paint and play quality defense against 7-foot centers in the league. SMGDH

bigdave

July 23rd, 2010
12:15 am

Kobe seems to be recruiting every player he’s ever had on court beef with..

Geemack

July 23rd, 2010
12:35 am

Man the Lakers are deep. The 3 Kings better bring their A game to take the title from Kobe. The Lakers got Steve Blake, Theo Ratliff, & Matt Barnes to help them 3peat. All those guys are very good defensive players coming off the bench.

Who are the Hawks bringing in…Josh Powell a Laker reject. Wow that’s really exciting.

Najeh Davenpoop

July 23rd, 2010
12:52 am

“our core is pretty good and we need to live within our possibilities and what the market allows us to take.”

I agree that the core is pretty good. I think you can agree, though, that the team as currently constructed needs to add at least one major piece or two to be a serious contender and not just a perennial second-round loser.

“look for instance at the Chris Paul situation: he does not consider the hawks as a destination. he simply does not want to come (and that has nothing to do with ASG’s willingness to spend or not).”

Chris Paul is not a free agent. He has no control over where he plays. Yes, it is unlikely based on recent news that he would re-sign here, but all that can change if his arrival makes this team elite. He did, after all want to join this team in 2005 when they came off a 13-69 season.

Regardless, although I have brought up CP3 trade scenarios for more than a year now, I have never seen it as more than a long shot dream scenario. All I want is to see this team TRY to get better. If they propose such a trade and get soundly rejected, that’s still a step up over what they are doing now. Right now they are not even trying.

If I sound over the top, that’s the reason why. When you sign your 28-year-old star to a max contract, you are basically going all in and saying you are giving it your all to win now, since by doing so you sacrifice near-future salary flexibility and the chance of landing a superstar in the draft. At least, that’s what an organization with a plan would do. The Hawks’ management appears to be so excited that they were able to re-sign Joe that they have called it quits on the rest of the offseason.

“I will not even dwell on the benefits or non benefits of the move on court. I just want to focus on the facts: we cannot attract free agents.”

Here we go again with this myth. The Hawks are in no worse a position to attract free agents than most NBA teams. Of the final eight NBA teams last season, only the Hawks’ best player actually chose to be with his team; every other team’s best player was either traded there or drafted. Atlanta is one of the more attractive cities to live in for athletes in general, and the Hawks are not a bottom feeding team.

Whether or not the Hawks can attract free agents depends entirely on whether the ownership group cares enough to win. When they state publicly that they don’t want to exceed the luxury tax while eery elite team is over the tax level, it sends a clear signal to free agents that this team is not serious about winning.

And like I’ve said before, it’s not just that they don’t spend; it’s also that when they DO spend, they do it unwisely. If they had kept the 2nd round pick, they could have signed Matt Barnes and the 2nd round’s best big man for less than what they are paying Josh Powell and Jason Collins. Barnes is a reputed defender and shooter who has played on more than one elite team and has plenty of playoff experience, and it is literally impossible for Hassan Whiteside or Dexter Pittman to be less statistically productive than the two scrubs the Hawks now have on the end of the bench.

“It is sure that he will not be a difference maker, but have you read the ESPN piece on him? He looks to be a very solid citizen and a hard worker who is constantly working in his game.”

I am also a solid citizen, and for over a million dollars, I will gladly work on my game as much as the Hawks want. Do I deserve a roster spot? No, and neither does Josh Powell’s 43% shooting, below average rebounding azz. Please go to basketball-reference and compare Powell’s per-36 stats to Zaza and see the vast, monumental difference between the two. As average as Zaza is, a team serious about contending would be working to make sure their top bench big man was at least as good as Zaza, instead of paying for a guy who is significantly worse than him.

“When he got more minutes he contributed well.”

He cracked double digit points twice last year. His season high was 7 rebounds. Like I mentioned earlier, he shot 43% for the season despite being 6′9″, playing close to the basket, and mostly playing minutes against scrubs on other teams (his five most productive games were decided by at least 16 points). If that is what you consider performing well, what do you consider performing poorly?

If my negativity is too much for you, I apologize. I try to base my opinions on the facts, and the fact is the Hawks would have been hard pressed to spend $1.2 million in a less efficient way. It’s hard to give them a pass on selling the top pick of the 2nd round for $3 million when they spend $2.4 million on two guys who would make the D-League All Stars. I’m sorry, but positivity has its limits.

Najeh Davenpoop

July 23rd, 2010
12:54 am

“The Lakers got Steve Blake, Theo Ratliff, & Matt Barnes to help them 3peat. ”

I would have been quite thrilled to have Theo Ratliff, if the alternative is Josh Powell.

Najeh Davenpoop

July 23rd, 2010
12:55 am

Sorry, that should have said “two guys who WOULDN’T make the D-League All Stars”. I’m typing on the iPhone keyboard, so the typos are kinda hard to avoid.

Najeh Davenpoop

July 23rd, 2010
1:08 am

Raja Bell, who would have helped the Hawks immensely with his perimeter defense and shooting in this new offense, signed for $3 million annually with Utah. Is Utah some great free agent destination? Are NBA players flocking to salt flats and Mormon temples in their spare time?

Stop clinging to this myth. The only cities that are demonstrably more attractive to free agents are Miami, New York, and Los Angeles. The only other franchises that may be more attractive to free agents are Chicago because it is a big city and the Bulls’ history, San Antonio because of its recent success and Tim Duncan, and Phoenix because of the way Steve Nash has inflated the market value of so many players over the last few years. That’s it. The Hawks have an undisputed advantage over the league’s other teams when it comes to attracting free agents, if the ownership shows a commitment to winning.

Dan's Dickau

July 23rd, 2010
3:04 am

The Hornets aren’t moving Chris Paul for a package of our under achieving over paid players (Paul and Okafor for Bibby and WIlliams and J.C.? Why would the Hornets agree to that? You all really think that’s the best package they could get for CP3?

VaVa and Mr. Strickland, no disrespect you guys are normally on point. But this just doesn’t seem realistic to me. Of course, we DID get Jamal for the ghost of Speedy Claxton and Acie Law. But this business of New Orleans moving their best players for a Bibby/Williams/Crawford package is a pipe dream. A crack pipe dream!

vava74

July 23rd, 2010
3:23 am

Dan,

NO is aiming at shedding pay roll in a dramatic way, not at adding talent (and cost) against any trade involving Paul.

The deal I mentioned would be extremely lopsided from a talent point of view – I know that – but it makes senses from a payroll point of view since with the TPE and Crawford’s 11 million, they would be able to immediately shed 14 million and with Bibby coming out of their books in the following year (or via a trade since he may be prove a commodity in his last year) the overall saving would be 19 million whilst still getting a fairly good talent/prospect in Marvin.

Najeh,

Ratliff is 38 years old in case you have not noticed and historically injury prone.

Bell would be a surplus: why on hearth would we sign yet another SG?

Hawks Fan In New Orleans

July 23rd, 2010
3:52 am

Hot dayum Da Bulls just snatched up Kurt Thomas to back up Joakim Noah
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=5403367

Rod from College Park

July 23rd, 2010
5:01 am

vava74,

“Matt Barnes is a pretty decent player but how on hearth would he be such an improvement over Marvin?”

He is a better shooter, can dribble more than 3 times without picking up his dribble, can knock down open shots, and he can drive and finish without falling.

“The guy only averaged more than 10ppg ONCE in his whole career and it was on a high octane offense in PHO.”

He gives you close to the same production as Marvin now with a lot less minutes.

“Yes, he is a good defender, but in a different style, so is Marvin.”

Marvin is not an above average defender in anyone’s book. Barnes is. Anything Marvin does defensively, Barnes does it better, plus he brings an attitude with him.

“Offensively? Maybe a better 3 point shooter, however, how come he never scores more points than Marvin?”

He plays less minutes. Look at his playoff statistics when his minutes increased, then look at Marvin’s. Barnes is a better player than Marvin all around the board, and the only coach who would maybe start Marvin over Barnes is Woody.

vava74

July 23rd, 2010
5:34 am

Hi Rod,

Barnes regular season stats from 3 point land: 0.319

I grant that he improved in the playoffs, however, look at his line in the last game of the ECF:

May 28 @ BOS (L 84 – 96) MIN21 FG0 – 0 3FG0 – 0 FT1 – 2 OREB0 DREB2 TREB2 ASS1 STL0 BLK0 TO0 FT3 PTS1

Najeh Davenpoop

July 23rd, 2010
5:56 am

“Ratliff is 38 years old in case you have not noticed and historically injury prone.”

You are right, but sadly, he is still better than Josh Powell. He does still do one thing well, and that is block shots. Aside from getting Kobe to like him, I honestly don’t see a single thing Josh Powell does well.

“Bell would be a surplus: why on hearth would we sign yet another SG?”

He plays a position that is already strong for the Hawks, true. In my opinion him at SG and Joe at SF with Marvin on the bench would make for a better lineup than the current one, since it would spread the floor for Teague to get to the hoop. Anyway, I only brought him up as an example of a quality player who didn’t cost much to demonstrate that there are far better ways the Hawks could have spent their money.

vava74

July 23rd, 2010
6:08 am

Najeh,

Contrary to popular belief, when given starter minutes (in particular at the SG slot), Mo does well: defends, scores and hits the 3 pointers.

So that would be a move which be just an overlap in characteristics and at a higher cost.

vava74

July 23rd, 2010
6:10 am

Najeh,

On Ratliff and Powell: that remains to be seen.

Ratliff has not been retained by any of the teams he has played with during the past few years so that should be enough of an indictment to his diminished skills and contribution.

JoJo the Godfather

July 23rd, 2010
7:07 am

The Houston Rockets have 17 players under contract, about 5 of them play SF, and they are just over the luxury tax…Ariza is probably the most available with 4 yrs $28M left on his deal…Trade Bibby & Houston’s 2nd round pick that we own for Ariza…Houston saves $800,000 this year (about $16M over all) and evens out their roster.

O'Brien

July 23rd, 2010
7:28 am

vava,

I am not saying I would appoint Barnes as the starting SF. But I would offer him the chance to compete with Marvin for the starting spot. Marvin needs to earn his spot, which he has been given since season 2.

And I think the chance to be a starter on a playoff team might be worth more to Barnes than the money. Not to mention, if Barnes does beat Marvin for the starting spot, that would allow us to trade Marvin and bring in a cheaper backup. Would you rather have Barnes for $3.5 mil or Marvin for $7.5 mil?

Unfortunately, its all moot. Barnes signed with the Lakers backing up Artest. That team is going to be tough, because they have Artest/Barnes to defend LeBron, Kobe on Wade, and Gasol/Odom on Bosh. Kobe must be licking his chops.

Jo-Jo,

Ariza makes almost as much money as Marvin. But I would take Chase Budinger from them.

vava74

July 23rd, 2010
7:35 am

Ariza also shot under .400 from the field for the season last year… and .330 from 3 point land…

Melvin

July 23rd, 2010
8:31 am

I haven’t seen another player say this about Marvin:

Ron Artest: Matt is tougher than nails Tougher than a penguin on steroids Tougher than richard Simmons trying to take off his spandex

JoJo the Godfather

July 23rd, 2010
8:47 am

Ariza also is only 25 yrs old and had a lot of scoring burden placed on him when he went to Houston…I would use the Ariza trade to then send Marvin (or Ariza) & Za Za to Cleveland for Shaq & Delonte West as Cleveland needs both a SF & backup C…Then flip West to Minnesota for Ramon Sessions…The net result is Bibby, Williams & Pachulia out, and Sessions, Ariza & Shaq in…Money is an even match assuming Shaq at $6.5M…Last 2 moves are trade exception and a draft pick to Portland for Rudy Fernandez, and Mo Evans and 2nd round pick to New Orleans for Julian Wright…13-man roster and still under luxury tax.

Sessions / Teague
Johnson / Ja Crawford / Jo Crawford
Ariza / Fernandez / Wright
Smith / Powell
Horford / Shaq / Collins

vava74

July 23rd, 2010
8:48 am

Yeah, that a good endorsement.

But that does not change the fact that this suddenly enshrined “3 point threat” has a career average of .329 and that when he was 25 he was shooting .250 from 3 point land.

I like him, but he would be too expensive as a back up for us.

O'Brien

July 23rd, 2010
9:31 am

vava,

Although it’s not just about numbers, I remember northcyde posted some numbers that showed Matt was #2 defensively among SFs, while Marvin wasn’t even in the top 10. And the only reason Matt Barnes is too expesive as a backup for us is because the ASG is broke.

But its a moot point. Maybe we can sign Damien Wilkins to the vet minimum.

Evil Genius

July 23rd, 2010
10:12 am

————————–
Nesbitt for Heisman
————————–

Rufus1

July 23rd, 2010
10:30 am

Barnes Overrated as Hell!!!

He shots 32% from 3 last year in Orlando(Talk about wide open jumper).. Look at his 3pt percentage in hi 1st 5 years(about 20%)
He is a career FG is 44%
His BEST year is Marvins WORST years.
He played 26min a game last year.

PLEASE NORTHCYDE SHOW US HIS DEFENSIVE EFFICIENCY WITHOUT D12…

If MARVIN played 27min a game with Nash, do you think he would only average 10pts a game…..Lol

ROD
Where was Barnes during “CRUNCH TIME”…ON THE BENCH.

Barnes is an average player that played on a high profile team, so we think he is better than he is….AVERAGE AT BEST

RECAP
Not a better score
Not better Rebounder
I question if he is a better defender….D12 and Better team defense.

Ken Strickland

July 23rd, 2010
11:13 am

ROD IN CP-How in the devil can you say MBarnes is a better option than Marvin and expect anyone to think you’re anything but a fool? These are Marvin’s 09-10 stats, his worst in 4yrs as a starter, and career stats.

09-10 PPG-10.1, RPG-5.1, APG-1.1, SPG-.81, BPG-.57, FG%-.455, 3PT%-.303
CAREER PPG-11.9, RPG-5.4, APG-1.4, SPG-.83, BPG-.47, FG%-.451, 3PT%-.304

The following represents MBarnes’ career highs in each category.

HIGHS PPG-10.2, RPG-5.5, APG-2.8, SPG-.70, BPG-.50, FG%-.487, 3PT%-.343

As you can see, the best MBarnes has ever done in his career in each category barely exceeds what Marvin did in his worst season in 4yrs as a starter. If fact, Marvin’s career averages actually exceed most of MBarnes’ career highs in most categories. SOMETIMES YOU DON’T SEEM TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN REALITY AND THE BS THAT SEEMS TO BE GOING ON IN YOUR HEAD.

I’m still trying to figure out the logic behind the articles and comments about the possibility of JJ having trouble adjusting to sharing the ball in LDrew’s OFF. He certainly didn’t have any problem sharing it in Phoenix, or being a 3rd or 4th scoring option.

Yet, I’ve yet to see an article or comment about any potential problems LeBron, DWade and CBosh might have with the same issues. After all, neither player has ever been anything but the #1 option at any stage of their basketball careers. And DWade and LeBron have dominated the ball, the OFF, and their team at every level.

WHY IS IT SO HARD TO BELIEVE THEY, RATHER THAN JJ, COULD BE THE ONES WITH ADJUSTMENT AND CHEMISTRY PROBLEMS? Some of you are already willing to give Miami the NBA title before training camp has even started. By the same token, you can’t seem to get your brains around the possibility of the Hawks becoming a better team with the addition of a new HC, who has an actual OFF/DEF system and philosophy, and returning 10 of 12 players that provided the continuity and chemistry that led the Hawks to the 2nd rd of the playoffs, 53wins and a #3 seed.

You also seem to discount the impact of individual player growth, which has certainly been a tremendous influence on Hawk progress over the last 5yrs. Teams we’ve dominated, or should have dominated, like the Bulls, Miami, Washington, Milwaukee, New York, and some Western Conference teams, have added a few players. And based on that alone, you’re ready to elevate them and demote the Hawks virtually out of the playoff picture. Why, because the Hawks have chosen to stick with CHEMISTRY and INTERNAL GROWTH, and make a significant COACHING upgrade rather than an immediate roster upgrade.

We have our BIANNUAL, TRADE and MLE. We also have 2 expiring contracts, JaCrawford-$10.8M & MEvans-$2.5M, MBibby’s $5.56M contract becoming an expiring contract after this season, and the minimum contracts of JPowell & JCollins, which total less than $2M combined. Armed with all of this, we can certainly afford to wait until the trade deadline to see what we have in PG JTeague, SG JoCrawford, PF/C JPowell, HC LDrew, as well as the overall team.

bigdave

July 23rd, 2010
11:16 am

Atlanta Hawks (3-2): B

The Atlanta Hawks have been one of the up-and-coming organizations in the NBA over the course of the last few years but it looked as if they had finally hit the wall when they were swept, by an average of, like, a million points per game, in the second round of the playoffs by Orlando. Over the summer things have started to look up for the Hawks once again. Second-year guard Jeff Teague showed some signs that he could move into the starting lineup at the point guard position this season, averaging better than 15 points and four assists per game while shooting .522 from the field. He will have to make better decisions with the ball (4.4 turnovers per game in Vegas), but summer league play can be sloppy as teams are quickly thrown together and players have very little time to get comfortable with one another. Rookie guard Jordan Crawford looked like a steal, leading the Hawks in scoring (16.2 ppg) and takeaways (1.8 spg) and should be able to provide another scoring option off the bench for new head coach Larry Drew. Additionally, the Hawks may have found some size for an undersized front line in Alade Aminu. The 6′10″ power forward out of Georgia Tech continued to show the ability to protect the rim and showed improved rebounding this summer.

Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=16896#ixzz0uWEnVvPJ

Hoops

July 23rd, 2010
11:20 am

JoJo the Godfather,

I am all with you on your trade proposals. Can you make them happen? Call Rick Sund and give him the plan!

Ken Strickland

July 23rd, 2010
11:24 am

OBRIEN-would MBarnes be rated #2 in DEF efficiency at SF if he didn’t have DHoward backing him up, or if he had to function in Woodson’s switching DEF system? I’d like to see his DEF efficiency ranking before he came to Orlando, and especially when he was with Phoenix.

Sometimes it’s not about a lack of individual ability to function offensively or defensively, but the inability to function effectively within a particular OFF/DEF system, especially if those systems are flawed.

denglishjr

July 23rd, 2010
11:28 am

I will never watch another NBA game!

HoosierHawk

July 23rd, 2010
11:30 am

My theory- lethargic ASG waiting until the trade deadline, will use the TPE and trade Crawford and possibly Mo’s expiring contract once Jordan Crawford proves he can be our guy off the bench.

Why is everyone still talking about Barnes? Hoopshype says he is a done deal with L.A. Kurt Thomas is gone too.

Now we have 2 of the Hawks (both who’s playing time might be affected because Horford would play some 4 and Josh would play less) publicly saying they would like Shaq. I’d be willing to take the risk and trade him with expiring contracts if it doesn’t work out. Plus NOONE seems interested now, so maybe we can lowball him with the money he wants for 1 year or 2 years with way less.

Ken Strickland

July 23rd, 2010
11:51 am

Shaq has already indicated he wants to start, and wants a 2yr guaranteed contract for more than the MLE. If forced to sign with us because no one else will waste time talking to his egotistical butt, do you really think he wouldn’t eventually end up being a distraction?

I can see him coming in here and coming off the bench, going all out to try and convince LDrew to start him or give him major mins. If it doesn’t happen within the time frame he’s established for himself, he’d then become a major distraction. Can you imagine the turmoil he could cause for young players like AHorford, JSmith, MWilliams and JTeague? Look at the issues he created between he and elite players like PHardeway, KBryant and DWade.

O'Brien

July 23rd, 2010
11:52 am

Ken S,

When you go car shopping, do you always buy the best car available? I dont know about you, but I buy the best car available for the best price. Matt Barnes makes $1.8 mil per year. Marvin makes $7.5 mil per year. So who is the better value?

I am not saying that Matt Barnes is head and shoulders above Marvin. But I think he should have been brought in (even if its as a backup), and given the opportunity to compete with Marvin for the starting job.

If Marvin plays better and is a better fit in Drew’s system, then he starts, and Barnes backs him up. If Barnes wins, then he starts, and we trade Marvin.

But as HoosierHawk said. Barnes is no longer available. I just hope that next off-season we wont still be talking about Marvin’s potential, or the coach not using him right, or the fact that he is the 5th option on offense.

Fundamentals

July 23rd, 2010
11:57 am

Why is Okafur such garbage if he gets a double double and +15.72 efficiency rating at 28 minutes a game over 82 games played last season? His contract isn’t that bad at that price? Yeah his a bit small, but he’s an upgrade from anyone we have on our bench at C? Might even be enough to push AL and Josh up a spot and start at C sometimes? If Josh can show that midrange jumper he claims he’s working on this summer. A 12-15′ jumper would make Josh unstoppable.

drmaryb (*_*)

July 23rd, 2010
12:08 pm

Futuristic!

Make no mistake about it – Marvin IS on the trading block and he has value!
Just like Chris Paul (with a complete removal of a meniscus & never retruned to the court since)
– has value!

Just as NO has refused to give him away for scrubs – the ASG has refused to give Marvin away for less tham comparable talent as well.

But, don’t get is twisted – IF Marvin doesn’t PONY – UP by the trade deadline or before?
He will be leading the PONY – EXPRESS right outa’ the ATL! Granted his value will be diminished at
that point, his exit will provide salary cap space and possibly some constellation of
draft picks and or expiring contracts, if not a serviceable piece.

IF Chris Paul doesn’t PON – UP or even play without substantial injuries up to the tradeline,
he likewise will see the same scenario for himself or join the ranks of the Speedy Claxton
Hall of Shame.

It’s time for Marvin Williams to PUT – UP or Get – Out!

Alade Aminu should get a crack to make this team – IMHO.

JoJo the Godfather

July 23rd, 2010
12:18 pm

If we stand pat, I’d like to see Aminu and Acie Law get deals…I’m sure I’m in the minority, but I think Law has a future as a defensive PG in this league, and there’s no reason not to take a chance on Aminu.

vava74

July 23rd, 2010
12:26 pm

OB,

When you buy a car you should first look for “NEED” and only then for the “BEST DEAL”.

Barnes was not essential and – again – he would not sign with us for 1,8 million (with a high degree of probability). We saw that with many other free agents and the promise of him being able to compete for the starting job is not enough when you have the lure of being a reserve on the Lakers.

Note also that Barnes is from Cali, so he will be playing closer to his roots.

bigdave

July 23rd, 2010
12:35 pm

“I’m sure I’m in the minority, but I think Law has a future as a defensive PG in this league”

i think he could start..

drmaryb (*_*)

July 23rd, 2010
12:50 pm

Recycled Parts

Why the love affair with Acie Law?

He Came
We Saw
He was Measured

And, he was lacking.

At best, Acie is a too small combo guard. No true PG skills & too small to defend and get a shot off against the leagues top SG’s. Very inconsistent perimeter shooter and does not finish well at the rim.
Has NOT improved his game from year to year and is injury proned.

Next suggestion please? I still like that SL PG from Houston, big time! Isaiah Smith (?), that little
man is a dark horse and a hidden GEM – IMHO.
We need fresh meat, new blood & not a do-over at the PG!

I you want a Do – Over? Let’s re-do some of Billy Knight Draft Picks.

bigdave

July 23rd, 2010
1:00 pm

for the record we have a PG, 2 for that matter, and a combo guard.. i still think Acie Law has the package to play PG in this league..

kinda hard to play your game with a sword in your back guiding you to a warm seat on the bench..

PMC

July 23rd, 2010
1:03 pm

So who can we give away to get Chris Paul?

Anyone outside of Horford I say is game. Paul, Horford, Joe Johnson would be great…

and likely it’s that stupid deal that Johnson signed that would keep them from retaining Paul. If it could happen.

I’d send Marvin and Josh Smith today along with a #1 draft pick.

PMC

July 23rd, 2010
1:06 pm

I mean I’d rather keep Josh Smith too and send 2 #1’s but something has to be given up. Chris Paul would help give them the facilitation they need.

bigdave

July 23rd, 2010
1:07 pm

and for the record.. favored him over Teague..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rinat-HIHTM

Robert

July 23rd, 2010
1:19 pm

send Bibby,Marvin and a #1 pick for Chris Paul.

JoJo the Godfather

July 23rd, 2010
2:05 pm

drmaryb…we’ll agree to disagree on Law…i think the young man has the ability to play backup pg succesfully in this league…his stats HAVE improved every year in the league, but those stats are based on a small amount of games played, so lets not dwell too long there…at 6′3′ 200 lbs with lateral quickness, he can defend the pg position…i see his upside as Chris Duhon…rumors have him contacted by Cleveland and Orlando, so there is some demand for his services out there.

O'Brien

July 23rd, 2010
2:12 pm

bigdave,

When Rose was injured, Acie actually had a couple good games for the Bulls. I think he is a good low risk, high reward guy.

vava,

On his twitter, Matt Barnes said something to suggest that Kobe was either recruiting him, or recommending him to the front office, so that probably helped too.

JJ’s agent said he would be recruiting players to come here. Although we havent seen or heard anything to corroborate it, I wonder if the front office ever approached JJ about recruiting a certain player, or if JJ is even in contact with the front office.

bigdave

July 23rd, 2010
2:22 pm

O’brien..

i agree.. that youtube link is his highlight package of his 22 ..3.. 3 effort

Ken Strickland

July 23rd, 2010
2:23 pm

OBRIEN-When I go car shopping I don’t just look for the best car available for the best price. Before shopping for a vehicle, I always consider what my needs are and what vehicle category best meets those needs, like coup, sedan, SUV, truck etc. And only then do I look for the best vehicle for the best price.

MWilliams’ 11.9 career scoring average demonstrates he’s capable of producing double figure scoring averages, and he’s also demonstrated the ability to carry the scoring load for stretches when a key scorer has gone down. If JJ went down, would you really want to depend on MBarnes, who’s only had only one double figure scoring season(10.2PPG)in his entire career, to pick up the slack?

Or, would you want MWilliams, who’s career high in RPG 6.3, PPG in 14.8 far exceeds anything MBarnes has accomplished, and his low PPG average of 10.1PPG is only .1 of a pt lower than MBarnes’ highest scoring average(10.2PPG), and who’s career scoring average(11.9PPG) is higher than MBarnes’ highest scoring average?As a rebounder and scorer, we’ve all seen MWilliams dominate gms with this scoring and/or rebounding.
You certainly can’t say the same for MBarnes.

Marvin provides far more security and potential than MBarnes could ever provide. Offensively, MBarnes has benefited from playing with 2 time MVP and future HOF PG SNash, while Marvin has had to produce playing with PG’s like TLue, AJohnson and MBibby. Defensively, he’s benefited from playing with DHoward, while Marvin had to cope with Woodson’s switching DEF, to protect MBibby.

cheshire

July 23rd, 2010
3:13 pm

if the Hawks have any sense whatsoever, they’ll at least look at trying to get Paul.

I like Josh Smith, but honestly i’d trade him for Paul. get a true center (doesn’t have to be a big scorer… just a big body to clog the middle) and move Horford to the PF position.

Before anyone blasts me for that, i would love to keep Josh Smith on this team, but as I see it, this team needs a true center one way or the other. Get a true center, and you’ve got a surplus at PF between Horford and Smith. Between the two i’d rather have Horford, and Smith wouldn’t be a good SF since he can’t shoot.

I’d hate to see him go, but i’d trade him for Paul in a heartbeat.

JoJo the Godfather

July 23rd, 2010
3:30 pm

Chris Paul’s price…I think Portland was offering expiring A. Miller, expiring J. Pryzbilla, Nicolas Batum, Jared Bayless & pick(s) for Paul & filler…Orlando could offer expiring Vince Carter, Daniel Orton, Brandon Bass, Marcin Gortat, and pick(s) for Paul & Okafor…So any Hawks package would have to start with our expiring contracts (Crawford & Evans), include one or two of our youngsters (Teague & Crawford), as well as future picks…This would then require the commitment of management to go in to the luxury tax next year in order to re-sign Horford…I just don’t see it happening.

O'Brien

July 23rd, 2010
3:34 pm

Ken S,

If JJ goes down, we wont have to rely on Marvin too much (for extra points), because we have Jamal who plays the same position (and averaged 18 ppg last season, 16 ppg for his career), we can get increased scoring from Horford and Josh, plus Teague can also chip in.

I think what this team needs most from Marvin is defense, rebounding, and the ability to knock down open shots, and most importantly, do them on a CONSISTENT basis. If he can do those things, the Hawks will be much more dangerous.

I want the Hawks and Larry Drew to succeed, so I will be rooting for Marvin next season. I just hope he is ready and able to step his game up.

Guys,

Why would N.O want Josh Smith when they have an all star (and cheaper) PF in David West? Remember, they are trying to cut cost.

Why would they want Marvin when they have Peja, Posey, and Julian Wright (all listed as SFs), making over $22 mil combined? And the only expiring we have is Jamal ($10 mil).

We dont have the assets to pull off a deal. We blew our chance to get him in the draft, when he wanted to come here, had a very good workout here, but BK went with Marvin instead.

terrell

July 23rd, 2010
3:48 pm

Najeh, how do you know Sund isn’t trying to make a move. The other team has to agree you know.

Fundamentals

July 23rd, 2010
3:56 pm

I liked AC when he was here, but he just never seemed to do enough to make you think he could run the team. Upon leaving he has been planted on 3 benches to rarely to if ever get in the game? Why does that make you think he can start? Good kid, just don’t see him being anymore than a backup for anyone.

Thomas and Barnes is gone it seeems.

Chris Paul and Emeka could be a good combination for ATL? Would they take Marvin, Mo, Bibby, Crawfor, TPE, the 2nd round picks? Are we risking too much w/o seeing the knee in operation?

What does Orlando need for Gortat?

What does Dallas need for Ajinca?

What does Washington need for McGhee?

Who needs an experience PG or SG?

terrell

July 23rd, 2010
4:06 pm

Damien Wilkins > Matt Barnes.
For a lot less $.

dap01

July 23rd, 2010
4:09 pm

When is MC coming back? Is Ken going to put up any Hawks news?

JoJo the Godfather

July 23rd, 2010
4:09 pm

Fundamentals…I don’t see Orlando sending us Gortat…Guys like Ajinca & Koufas are available for a draft pick…Washington needs McGhee (spelling???)…Houston, Cleveland, Sacramento, Charlotte, Portland, and Indiana are the main teams looking for guards…Of those teams, Houston, Indiana & Portland are wanting to reduce their # of players under contract (send a package out for one in return).

doc

July 23rd, 2010
4:23 pm

let’s see we steal josh powell from the lakers for the minimum and they replace him with matt barnes that does two things, makes them stronger and one of the potential teams it has to finish with in the finals the magic weaker. nice job to the lakers and hawks. major upgrades, yuck. we get a a guy as a big who cant get 50% from the field; that is atrocious, nor is he known as a rebounder, just a good guy in the locker room.

yup al, we got help coming at ya!

doc

July 23rd, 2010
4:30 pm

@ northcyde
July 22nd, 2010
6:30 pm

dude is this someone who has taken your handle bud or did you finally come to jesus. folks we have had a mojor transition here today if it is true. this is a true transcendant moment.

i now officially declare you a true atlanta hawk fan northcyde! you have suffered enoiugh and come out on the other side bro.

look out nire might show up and continue to tell us this is how to run a franchise and that these guys are good businessmen. no ego’s got in the way worrying about who got all star tickets and the like and we continue to pay for it.

so northcyde you wont be able to sell me some tickets to the much anticipated pacer-hakws game that might determine who gets the 8th spot? yes we got it going.

too funny.

terrell

July 23rd, 2010
4:34 pm

Damn Doc, Powell was backing up Gasol/Odom and co. He only played like 7 min a game. You cant judge a player based on those kind of min. Yall aint even giving the kid a chance to suit up yet.

doc

July 23rd, 2010
4:38 pm

look folks if josh powell wasnt seen on any of the games that the lakers were front and center after the season finished their playoffs began and many never heard of him before then you know how good he is. anyone that suggests that the lakers wanted him back to only sign matt barnes to fill his role is suffering from acute anencephalopathy. ;-)

doc

July 23rd, 2010
4:41 pm

rondo i already said it yesterday:

powell = POOR MAN UDONIS

doc

July 23rd, 2010
4:47 pm

hmmm another 6′9″ “big”.

did rick sund fail so bad as a gm in seattle only to have to go back to the billy knight remedial school for gm’s?

Ken Strickland

July 23rd, 2010
5:10 pm

FUNDEMENTALS-In Acie’s defense, he certainly hasn’t many opportunities to show what he can do. When Woodson drafted him, he was considered college’s #1 clutch shooter, same as SStuademire. His misfortune was to start his career under a stubborn, bone headed HC with a serious bias against rookie guards.

He then ended up with HC((Don Nelson), who plays more gms in his head than he does in reality. Next, he did a quick stop in Charlotte, before finally ending up in Chicago under Vinnie Del Negro, who the Bulls felt compelled to fire.

On your proposed trade for CP3 and Okafor, we could get an almost perfect salary match by sending JTeague instead of MWilliams. It would also work if we sent Zaza($4.25M), instead of Teague or Marvin, Crawford($10.8M), MEvans($2.5M), Bibby($5.56M)and the trade exemption.

I guarantee you one thing. From both an offensive and defensive standpoint, if given consistent mins and opportunity, ALaw would give us more than Bibby can off the bench, especially on DEF. Having said that, I do think we’ll get more efficient OFF and better DEF from Bibby this yr under LConner, or his mins will be limited. He knows he’ll no longer get the free ride he got from Woodson for poor performance, and neither will Marvin.

Fundamentals

July 23rd, 2010
5:27 pm

Ken, I can appreciate your willingness to support AC, I tried my best and hoped to see him shine when he left to prove Woodson was the issue. Hopefully he’ll find his niche this time around. Royal Ivey signed on his own accord so it’ll be interesting to see how he does as well. Salim talked alot of trash, but in the end couldn’t latch on anywhere after his tryouts with the Spurs failed.

I know Bibby can be much more efficient and will have to be if LD and Conner hold strong on their defensive mentality. That was Woodson’s major problem – no accountability and riding his horses till they dropped. I’m not sure what we’ll do in terms of our last man or trades, I just hope we can have a team that’s cohesive, proud to be here and 100% behind Drew.

Our team hasn’t got anyone who garners more attention than the team. We need fans, team and coaches to bond into one unit. We know the fans can’t, so maybe, just maybe the team will. If they don’t want to, I hope they let Sund know to move them for someone who will. I’ll take a cohesive bunch pointed in the same direction as opposed to Shaq grumbling anyday.

We’ll see how AC turns out. Hopefully better than Salim, Shelden, Solomon, Chills, Royal, etc. None blossommed or prospered once they left. So was it Woody or a lack of overall talent? Time is telling on them all.

I can appreciate contributions from Flip, Anthony Johnson and T-Lue. They proved to be servicable professionals that were more than worth what we gave for them. Good to see each move on into additional roles for other teams.

truthspitter

July 23rd, 2010
6:18 pm

Marvin Williams, Jeff Teague, Jamal Crawford’s expiring contract and our 1st round draft picks in 2012 and 2014 for Chris Paul and Okafor.

Get it done dumb Sund

truthspitter

July 23rd, 2010
6:30 pm

Sund never had it. We need something, we have lost our spot at #3 in East by doing nothing.

tu gin wn

July 23rd, 2010
7:00 pm

truth serum

i finally found you. when you made saltee link my awful
truth in macon newspapaer`i reelize it you. my long lost brother from old country.
how can i find u. we get together soon.

Najeh Davenpoop

July 23rd, 2010
7:05 pm

“Najeh, how do you know Sund isn’t trying to make a move. The other team has to agree you know.”

We would have heard about it if they were trying. Anyone who follows the NBA hears about several teams pursuing free agents before one team actually signs him.

Najeh Davenpoop

July 23rd, 2010
7:08 pm

“powell = POOR MAN UDONIS”

Josh Powell is a poor man’s Hanno Mottola.

Truth Serum

July 23rd, 2010
7:17 pm

Ok I apologize for telling everybody I’m gay while posting as Grandad and Sautee. My gay brothers and sisters are no doubt embarrassed that i could not come out of the closet without using my own name. I am now going to post my gay-ness as myself with my real name instead of being ashamed of the fact that I dearly love men. I also apologize to Al Horford for speaking so badly of him all this time. What really happened is that I’m angry with him for bytch slapping me so hard at that party. How was I to know he would react so violently when I snuck up on him and lovingly fondled his left butt cheek? I’m sorry Al but i could not resist. Nobody has hit me that hard though, since that time I tried to take advantage of Shelden Williams at that other party, when he looked too drunk to do anything about it.

Najeh Davenpoop

July 23rd, 2010
7:22 pm

I’m still an Acie fan. That man has been victimized by a string of bad luck in the NBA, playing for three coaches who are notorious for jerking around young players’ playing time. Woody screwed him first by refusing to let him develop, and then he played for Don Nelson and Larry Brown, each of whom had very little invested in him and as a result even less incentive to develop him than they normally show with young players. I’m not unhappy that he’s gone, since the Hawks got Jamal in return, but I hope he catches on in the right system somewhere. When he’s gotten a chance, he has performed well.

Truth Serum

July 23rd, 2010
7:23 pm

I kind of like Marvin too, with that big ol ghetto booty he has. He may look clumsy on the court, but he might be something in the bedroom.

Carl

July 23rd, 2010
7:44 pm

Wow, I’m from Warner Robins and I’m offended. You guys post The Macon Telegraph website and post the ONE story involving a white guy. We all know Macon is a ghetto, impoverished craphole because of the violence by young adult black males, just like Atlanta.

Truth Serum

July 23rd, 2010
7:54 pm

I also have racial issues, but they are tied to my sexuality issues. I only get mad at people of other races when they don’t want to do booka booka with me.

Truth Serum

July 23rd, 2010
7:55 pm

Truth is, I like old white men and posting under their names makes me feel close to them. Yes I’m twisted

Glen

July 23rd, 2010
7:55 pm

Of course the half insane asians arent any help either

Truth Serum

July 23rd, 2010
7:57 pm

Should I report this to the complaint page again? Maybe not since I’m posting as other people and then all of my posts would get yanked.

Truth Serum

July 23rd, 2010
7:58 pm

I think I will wear a thong tonight even if it does chafe my tiny weenie

Truth Serum

July 23rd, 2010
8:00 pm

my widdle thai wang

Rick Sund

July 23rd, 2010
8:07 pm

4 MILL UNDER THE LUXURY TAX AND CAN’T EVEN SIGN 1 PLAYER.

GOTTA GET JOSH POWELL WHO WE HAVEN’T EVEN SIGNED YET

WORST OWNERSHIP IN SPORTS
WORST GM IN SPORTS

JeJe

July 23rd, 2010
8:07 pm

4 MILL UNDER THE LUXURY TAX AND CAN’T EVEN SIGN 1 PLAYER.

GOTTA GET JOSH POWELL WHO WE HAVEN’T EVEN SIGNED YET

WORST OWNERSHIP IN SPORTS
WORST GM IN SPORTS

Sautee

July 23rd, 2010
8:10 pm

Well, I see we have our coward back, stealing other folk’s handles. Well, it shouldn’t last too much longer, as I spoke with the AJC today, and they promised action. So someone’s IP address probably needs to change in a hurry. They spoke also about a permanent ban if they found the transgressions egregious enough. We’ll see.

Luckily, most here know what a real post from Grandad, drmaryb, or me looks like.

They ALSO recognize the cowardice and the poster perpetrating it.

I’ll just say he’s a sicker puppy than I had previously imagined, but I’ll still hold out hope for his salvation someday. He diminishes himself every time he tries to get attention by being outrageous and derogatory. He’ll realize that one day, and regret his actions, though now the thought of that makes him laugh.

I can only feel sadness for his overwhelming loneliness and lack of a life.

Pitiful, really.

terrell

July 23rd, 2010
8:31 pm

Nejah, did you hear that we wwere after Jamal last year?

O'Brien

July 23rd, 2010
9:54 pm

terrell,

We traded for Jamal in June last year, so that was before the media got into the free agency hype. And more often than not, you will hear which teams are interested in who.

I did read that the Hawks liked Anthony Tolliver, and I think Kurt Thomas too. But I cant help but wonder if it was just a move by the front office to appease fans (similar to the Avery Johnson interviews).

bigdave

July 23rd, 2010
10:04 pm

bigdave

July 23rd, 2010
10:06 pm

STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)

July 23rd, 2010
10:29 pm

Why the hell do we need Josh Poweel. He’s 6′9 wtf would he do. OMG this team doesn’t give a fu.ck.

Go Thunder

Macaroni Tony

July 23rd, 2010
10:29 pm

Macaroni Tony

July 23rd, 2010
10:30 pm

Macaroni Tony

July 23rd, 2010
10:35 pm

Steel this is a free country (you can say what ever you like), and to think that the ASG sucks is your business. This is a Hawks blog and we don’t go nobody but the Hawks. I like the Josh Powell pickup and the Hawks can use him. Josh Smith need a high energy player to play behind him. A resigning of a healthy Jason Collins can be great and a pick up of Earl Barron would keep us in the top four in the East.

doc

July 23rd, 2010
10:45 pm

As a fan of NBA basketball. Have considered lo missing a lot longer than this past week. Hope he is ok:

Hakws Mess

July 24th, 2010
12:21 am

Explain to me why I should be excited about next season?

Clyde

July 24th, 2010
3:06 am

I hope Lorenzen Wright is ok. I know I was hard on him when he was with the Hawks but I will pray for his safety.

truthspitter

July 24th, 2010
4:23 am

Hawks offseason sucks. Rick Sund should be cained like the 3rd world idiot he is. We need a real move or we are going 45-37 at best and taking a big step back next year.

Ty

July 24th, 2010
4:37 am

lol, what the hell has happened to this blog? I thought this was a basketball blog not the Full Monty. People on here are talking about grown men in thongs now…that’s not my cup of tea. Did I miss something? Is friday night gay night? What has gotten into you people? And I don’t mean anything racist when I say YOU PEOPLE. But seriously, what’s the deal? Can’t you people flirt with each other elsewhere and talk about serious topics on here?

dap01

July 24th, 2010
8:26 am

Is there nothing happening with the Hawks or is there no reporting on the Hawks?

doc

July 24th, 2010
8:34 am

TY, there is only one person doing this if you hadnt caught onto it yet. if you havent you are the last to know dude. you have been away to long if you are just getting wind of this.

the best thing to do is find a few folks that are consistent bloggers and read theirs, selectively read folks you dont know until you begin to know if they breathe or not, then scroll the rest. all the other hits only help the numbers for the ajc and mc so it is not all bad as the traffic looks better than it is which is already good.

btw there are many here that contribute mightily and frequently. it is your task to catch on to the relevant and irrelevant who know who they are already and continue to put up a fuss. that is what we do in life anyway isnt it and is called discernment. hint, anyone who writes in caps all the time and anyone down on al is to be avoided after you “taste” what mood they are in. doesnt take more than three or four words and not all they say is rubbish. i hope this helps you to get through this overall worthy and entertaining blog. i will not suggest anyone by name as you need to find your own entertainment and value here.

Ken Strickland

July 24th, 2010
8:57 am

CLYDE-co-sign that.

Ken Strickland

July 24th, 2010
9:42 am

As I see it, the Hawks biggest OFF improvement will come from finally functioning as a complete unit, rather than a collection of select individual players. They’ll rely on a structured half court OFF that stresses ball and player movement, and relies on the teams overall ability to attack the basket. No more clear outs, limited ball and player movement, or relying almost exclusively on ISO’s.

Shooting jump shots will usually end up being the final result of what the OFF generates, not the main focus, like in the past. This type of structured OFF should drastically reduce the number of forced, desperation 24 sec buzzer beaters. That was definitely a problem with Woodson’s less structured ISO dependent OFF.

On DEF, players will be required to carry their own weight and cover their position, rather than covering exclusively for certain DEF challenged players like PG MBibby and SG/PG JCrawford. Maintaining ACCOUNTABLILITY, which has been sorely missing the last few yrs, will have a tremendous impact on maintaining chemistry, OFF continuity and focus. Our new DEF philosophy, emphasis on accountability, along with PG JTeague’s DEF ability, should allow us to reduce last yrs 96PPG allowed.

With Teague’s ability to penetrate and break down DEF’s and create easier scoring opportunities for other, as well as initiate the OFF below the 3pt line, which was a problem in the past, we should also increase our scoring output. HOW CAN ANYONE NOT SEE AN INCREASED OFF AND DEF OUTPUT AS A MAJOR IMPROVEMENT?

ntrigue

July 24th, 2010
9:52 am

Yeah I agree with those that say Acie Law didn’t get a fair shot with any of the teams he went to. I wouldn’t be mad if we signed him and moved Bibby he definitly has skills whenever he played he did good even for chicago this year. Salim didn’t get a fair shot either and at San Antonio he ended up getting hurt!

doc

July 24th, 2010
10:14 am

ken, the problem is all those things that we did so poorly last year but seemed to get by with are going to be done against improved opposition. you can declare all those things that you want ken but the other guy has gotten better which may not translate into an increase in wins. yes, next year the team may play better but not end up with a better record because of a now inferior or overwhelmed team talent and depth. that is what the askg and rick sund have left us with. ken, do you not see how when the other guy gets better and we stand pat, even though we may play better it wont look that way? do you really not see the other guy getting better and that is our largest concern right now?

Ken Strickland

July 24th, 2010
10:18 am

MACARONI TONY-Thanks for those 2 excellent and informative articles. That last article explains what I’ve been trying to get across about why we should steer clear of Shaq at all cost. Nothing but a bunch of hype driven fans would continue campaigning for us to waste money on Shaq after all we now know about him and his demands. At least Sund and the ASG had sense enough to realize as much.

I have no doubt we’re going to get from Teague what we could have gotten from him last yr, especially on DEF. Teague does just about everything MBibby doesn’t do, and having Bibby as Teague’s backup, along with his shooting ability, experience and savvy, will be vital.

Most of the teams that added new players, and that are perceived as getting better, got better offensively, not defensively. The vast majority of the players the Bulls, Heat, Bucks and Knicks added are OFF players, not DEF. With all of their player additions, not one of these teams will be able to improve defensively as much as the Hawks. And all we had to do to make that DEF leap is hire a new HC, who in turn hired a DEF minded assistant, and promote a PG that can actually play DEF.

I mentioned in an earlier post that the Hawks should use the 4 headed center approach, rather than investing money in one major FA center acquisition, and that’s what they obviously decided to do. It doesn’t work if you have a HC that can’t effectively manage more than a 6-7 man rotation. But, since we’ve resolved that problem, we should be good to go.

bigdave

July 24th, 2010
11:00 am

“those things that we did so poorly last year but seemed to get by with are going to be done against improved opposition.”

i agree.. i said last season that a deal of the Hawks winning success was due to their continuity and poor personnel moves made by other franchises. not the case this season. though i still feel we have 4 of the most talented players in the league, depth just isnt up to par.

KevinM

July 24th, 2010
11:11 am

Ken, I gotta disagree with your Shaq assessment. For a team that has no inside presence and for a team who will have to play differently come playoff time, I would have to think that anytime Shaq is on a team, he gets instant respect.

Shaq’s numbers rivaled all-start Horford’s numbers. Put Shaq in for Horford and we probably don’t miss a beat. That’s how good Shaq still is. And what is it about today’s negotiations that incentives can’t be included into contracts? Is Shaq balking at any offer this team has made? I hope he comes out and tells everyone how this group negotiates contracts.

Yes, Shaq has numbers that no one will pay him. I get that part, but it doesn’t mean he is not needed here. At worse, the MLE is available. It isn’t even being considered from what we can tell.
Why would you bring in Collins and Powell and not give Shaq that money? I know Shaq gives us more in a week than those 2 will give in 2 months.

I would like to Shaq’s side to all this and his demands that he starts. I can say he would earn any slot given to him. He’s not ready to hang it up yet. I just hope Boston or Chicago doesn’t decide to bring him in.

Some of the ideas here don’t make sense for a team that is ’supposed’ to be challenging for the Finals. I don’t see the excitement nor plan that we have moved forward this offseason. 2 big questions linger: Crawford and Horford. We more than likely lose one if not both very soon because you can’t keep getting the same results for a team supposedly on the rise.

Seeing where GMs are ranked, and Sund is at 22 should tell you something about where we are headed. I can tell you its not to the NBA Finals, and it doesn’t matter how many times you watch Dwight videos about how to defend him. Horford/Zaza/Collins is not a formidable rotation.

Our biggest need this offseason again gets ignored yet again. The ASG has a built in excuse ready to go for any criticism they receive.

Big Ray

July 24th, 2010
11:36 am

Chris Paul will force a trade sooner or later. Maybe sooner, seeing as how the Hornets haven’t done nearly enough to help the team get better (other than hire a new coach…sound familiar?).

He wants to go to the Orlando Magic. If this happens, and he can be even 75% of what he was before knee surgery, then we can kiss the southeast division goodbye for the next several years, between the Magic and the Heat.

Meanwhile, the ASG (and Sund) will stand by and say “we like our core.”

:roll:

Big Ray

July 24th, 2010
11:44 am

You look at the Milwaukee Bucks (of whom I am NOT a fan), and see how they reacted to losing to us in the first round of the playoffs, and being without two major players (Bogut, Redd) for a serious stretch of the season.

They added Maggette, re-signed Salmons, added Douglas-Roberts for depth, etc. The thinking probably was “We don’t want to lose like this again because we didn’t have enough potent scorers or enough effective depth.”

We lose to the Magic in a sweep, and do so by a record number of points in a series. What is our thinking on how to do better? “We like our core. We’ll give JJ a monster raise, then refuse to sign anybody that won’t play for the minimum salary.”

What a winning attitude…

Hoops

July 24th, 2010
11:49 am

Guys,

I’m not saying that the ASG will make a serious offer for CP3 & Okafor, but this is the trade IMHO that the Hornets would go for:

Hawks get-CP3 & Okafor (we finally get a PG & a center)

Hornets get-Crawford & Evans (expiring contracts), Bibby (back up PG), & Zaza (replacement for Okafor)

***This could happen. I just won’t believe it until I see it!!

Line up-
PG-CP3/Teague/?
SG-JJ/Crawford2
SF-Marvin/?
PF-Josh/Powell/Aminu
C-Horford/Okafor/Collins
We would need a combo guard and a SF.

OR we could go to THE FINALS with this trade:

Hawks get-Carmello
Nuggets get-Josh & Marvin

Line up after both trades:

PG-CP3/Teague/Combo guard
SG-JJ/Crawford2
SF-Carmello/?
PF-Horford/Powell
C-Okafor/K.Brown/Collins

Big Ray

July 24th, 2010
11:56 am

Ken Strickland,

While I’m good with the coaching changes, neither the head coach nor his new assistant have proven a thing yet. Same goes for Teague. I have high hopes for all three. But they will all have to deal with growing pains, too.

Teams like Chicago and Milwaukee didn’t have issues on defense (as we found out with Milwaukee in the playoffs), but they couldn’t get over the hump offensively. Now they can . They filled needs that they had.

I am in full understanding of the philosophical and strategic changes that will be involved with a new coach. However, adding that and letting last year’s rookie pg take the reins a little more is not going ot cut it by itself, in my opinion.

Ken Strickland

July 24th, 2010
12:05 pm

KEVINM-When Sund and the ASG signed JPowell and resigned JCollins, it was clear signal they’ve moved on as far as Shaq is concerned. At this point, it’s obvious the ASG feels Shaq isn’t worth them incurring the luxury tax. Besides, I’m certain HC LDrew had some input in the decision on whether he needed Shaq in order to effectively compete against DHoward, or teams with bigger front lines.

It also appears LDrew has confidence in Lester Connors ability to design and impliment a DEF scheme and strategy that will allow us to be just as effective using the 4 headed center concept. I wouldn’t be surprised to see us use more full and half court pressure, to create more steals, and more deflections, which takes more time off the 24sec clock and limits teams half court options.

We seldom if ever did that in the past, probably because of Bibby’s inability to pressure much of anything, and Woodson’s inability to effectively manage more than 6-7 players during an average gm. If you pressure PG JNelson, making he and C DHoward work harder, you effectively limit the time they have to make their OFF and all of its options work, which automatically limits the effectiveness of their other players.

It’s obvious the Magic didn’t place as much value on MBarnes’ DEF as much as some of our fans. They must have decided they needed more OFF ability than whatever he provided on DEF. They probably decided DHoward was responsible for a lot of what he provided defensively. Therefore, they let him walk and replaced him with Petrius.

The Magic’s success is tied to 2 players, PG JNelson and C DHoward, in that order. To a large extent, if you control JNelson, which MBibby and JCrawford couldn’t come close to doing, you control DHoward. JTeague can put the kind of DEF pressure on JNelson that would force him to concentrate more on protecting the ball, than thinking of the multiple ways he can get the ball to DHoward under the basket.

Clyde

July 24th, 2010
12:29 pm

From CBSSportsline :

Atlanta Hawks

Added: Joe Johnson (re-signed for eleventy billion dollars) Jordan Crawford (draft)
Lost: Josh Childress (didn’t really have him anyway, but technically, they lost the rights to him in trade)

Philosophy: “Self-delusion is all the rage this summer!”

What are you going to do if you’re Atlanta in six years? When Joe Johnson’s crossover is no longer deadly and you’re paying him $20 million? The goal, apparently, is to try and contend for a title in the next three years, hoping Al Horford and Josh Smith keep developing, Jeff Teague turns into a starter-caliber point guard, and maybe figure out some big name free agent you can sign on the cheap, like Shaq, that will put you over the top. It’s not that the Hawks are a bad team. Far from it. While everyone was mocking them in the mid-00’s for stockpiling forwards, they’ve either developed them into quality starters or raised their trade value enough to move them for pieces or cap relief. But this summer, they have only made one signature move, and that was spending way too much for Joe Johnson.

The vast number of ways in which the Johnson signing was poorly conceived is staggering. The full max, all six years? That much money? The roster had potential to really contend, but instead, the Hawks simply avoided the great collapse of losing a high usage player with low efficiency. Johnson can take over a game like few in the league. But he also simply isn’t worth the money, and it’s hamstrung their franchise for the future.

Grade: D+

Najeh Davenpoop

July 24th, 2010
12:33 pm

Co-sign Big Ray at 11:44.

Najeh Davenpoop

July 24th, 2010
12:36 pm

In the highly unlikely event the Hornets cave in this year and trade CP3, they will only take back young talent on rookie-scale deals and expiring contracts, along with boatloads of draft picks. So if you are trying to come up with a potential Hawks trade for him, don’t even bother mentioning Bibby or Marvin.

KevinM

July 24th, 2010
12:43 pm

Ken, it appears that you are convinced that Teague is going to be a huge influence on this year’s team. I think we have to have Bibby play better than he has in years.

The problem is, you have no room for error should he not be the player or he gets injured. Until we get big help in the 1 and the 5, we really don’t have a lot to worry the East about.

We get a big man, we are hard to match up with…
We get a PG that can lead and create mismatches, we are a serious threat.

I don’t see Teague checking Nelson in any manner. I see Teague struggling to go up against Rose/Rondo/Jennings/Wall in the East alone.

We are still void of our needs and we will continue to be until we modify our core.

On the Shaq issue, I just think they blew a major opp to show they are serious about moving forward. This could have been a perfect situation for him, and if the ASG thinks they will continue to compete under the luxury tax, then they are not legitimate owners for this city. We could be better, but its the way they spend their cap is the main issue here. I for one, would give Shaq my MLE and take my chances. If Jermaine can get that number, its a no-brainer to me. Did Shaq balk? Perhaps he did, but we should not have shut down negotiations as quickly as we did.
And again, there is no way LD has an answer for Dwight Howard. I don’t even think our interior guys are known to be a serious defenders as well. It will take constant double teams and Van Gundy will counter LD every day of the week.

If Orlando gets CP3, then keep wishing for a top 4 slot in the East. We will be very fortunate to stay within the top 6.

Big Ray

July 24th, 2010
12:46 pm

Najeh ,

Heard that. If anything, Jamal Crawford would be the first name to pop up in trade talks with the Hornets. That’s a $10 million dollar expiring contract.

bigdave

July 24th, 2010
12:50 pm

not to mention you’re taking back Okafor.. Horford probably would have to be inclusive..

bigdave

July 24th, 2010
12:55 pm

Atlanta 25-1

There’s a need, but they don’t have the cap space to take on Paul unless they unload another piece, likely in a three-way deal.

Paul and Joe Johnson could be lethal but highly unlikely. You’d be disassembling a playoff team to make this work.

~~MAC-ToWN~~ (Area Code 478)

July 24th, 2010
2:21 pm

Josh Powell = better post moves and jump shot than Josh Smith

tu gin wn

July 24th, 2010
2:24 pm

far evryone to heer`

this is my brothers swan song.the americans at the atl newspapr will soon
take hym off the air. he make fool ofself so peeple wiil remmember him bye. he is not a bad person. he just is confuse by what is funny and what is not ok to say to peeple who or not one his levle. they will take me off of the airwaves to. that is ok as i like table tennis over american basketball anyway.

Adair

July 24th, 2010
2:26 pm

• Hawks re-sign Joe Johnson to a six-year, $124 million deal

This is a spectacularly dumb move by Atlanta. Less than three months ago, Johnson was booed off his home court after “helping” the Hawks suffer the most lopsided four-game sweep in NBA history (to Orlando, by an average margin of more than 25 points per game). Disappearing as a positive force when the games mattered most, Johnson shot just 30 percent and averaged 12.8 points during the series while delivering fewer assists and committing more turnovers than he did in the regular season. He also had the temerity to criticize Hawks fans for booing the team during a 30-point home loss in Game 3 — earlier in the season, he had complained about the lack of enthusiasm and atmosphere for basketball in Atlanta.

After a fifth straight year of regular-season improvement, the Hawks had struggled to defeat a vastly inferior Bucks team (minus star Andrew Bogut) in the first round, renewing questions about their immaturity and lack of a killer instinct. If nothing else, the Orlando massacre demonstrated that the Hawks co