Atlanta Hawks: Getaway day

DrMaryB,

I think you should have directed your post to GeeMack.

Anyhow, thank you since you have saved me the trouble of having to prepare a full post against GeeMack.

GeeMack,

Miami got the 3 stooges on account of several factors: Wade was already there and could get re-signed under BYC rules, low taxes which make the contracts signed “for less than max” actually higher than the max elsewhere, sunshine and fiesta AND Pat Riley.

Even if we had the full salary cap available to sign all 3 to max deals, they would not sign with us.

ATL is a franchise perennially regarded negatively who drags a mantel of “shame” with it which in some cases is difficult to understand.

Very few people say anything positive about the Hawks and of all the games I watched this year only two people talked good things about the Hawks and its players, Hubie Brown and Fratello, both former coaches in ATL.

All the rest only bashed us.

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MELVIN-I don’t know about any other teams, but the Cavaliers were definitely trying to resign Joe Smith. He chose the Hawks because he averaged around 19MPG during the regular season and they all but forgot him in the playoffs.

GODFATHER-We can do exactly what Miami did when they traded Beasley’s contract for draft picks to clear enough room to sign LeBron. The trade exemption allows us to trade MEvans’ $2.5M expiring contract straight up for a player with a $6+M contract($2.5M+$3.5M=$6M). That can be done at the upcoming trade deadline. And if Jordan Crawford demonstrates he can handle NBA caliber competition as well as he handled Summer League competition, we might also see Jamal Crawford’s expiring contract traded sooner rather than later.

CLYDE-when Philly signed EBrand, weren’t they considered a much improved team. Didn’t they say the same about Chicago a couple of yrs ago, and wasn’t the same said about Washington last yr? One of our major strengths over the last 2 yr has been our ability to return all of our starters and core players. Add to that the individual progression of players like Smoove, Horford, and hopefully Marvin and Teague, along with an actual OFF and DEF system and philosophy, and we’ve accomplished a major improvement.

With all of the additions and changes going on with other teams, all that can be said realistically, is they look good on paper. There are some who are so hung up on hype, that they’re predicting Miami will win 73gms. Last yr, LeBron had 1528FGA’s and averaged 29.7PPG, while DWade had 1511FGA’s and averaged 26.6PPG. Both players dominated the ball and their respective offenses.

Then we add the 1158FGA’s and 24.0PPG of CBosh. IS THERE ANYONE OUT THERE THAT’S ACTUALLY DUMB ENOUGH TO THINK EITHER OF THESE PLAYERS CAN COME CLOSE TO THOSE NUMBERS PLAYING ON THE SAME TEAM WITH JUST ONE BALL? Neither DWade nor LeBron has ever played without the ball in their hands, or played 2nd fiddle to anyone, ever.

There will be some major adjustment and chemistry issues on that team. Look at what happened to Philly when they added just one starter, EBrand. And look at how AJamison all but disappeared when he teamed up with LeBron. What about the problems AStaudemire had when Phoenix added Shaq.

Hype doesn’t win games, and neither does a preseason roster ladened with super stars, if they don’t mesh and/or lack chemistry. Chicago improved their OFF and rebounding by adding CBoozer and KKover, but neither player will contribute much on DEF, and it’ll take DEF to beat the Hawks. Besides, CBoozer’s OFF style could end up having he same negative effect on the Bulls that EBrand had on Philly.

I don’t see any significant improvement with Orlando. Adding RJefferson isn’t going to be the boost everyone thinks. He suffered with the Spurs because they had TDuncan on the post, and it limited his ability to drive and forced him to become a jump shooter, which isn’t his strong suit. Orlando, with DHoward in the middle, presents him with the same issues he couldn’t over come with the Spurs.

Some of you look at basketball like you look at a women with a pretty face and fine body. You don’t take the time to concern yourself with whether she’s intelligent, has a pleasant personality, or whether she has aids, gonorrhea, or carries a gun or a knife and killed her last boy friend.

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Rumple – Dumple

Go Back to sleep for another 99 years! And, stay sleep beyond that!
We really don’t NEED that racist ISH on this blog. That’s what they do over on the Falcon’s Blog.

So, go post under Orlandp Ledbetter and them fools over there.
We don’t care about your : Fried Chicken, KKK nor the “N – word” over here!

Save your breath, I will NOT read your ignorant response. And, jacking my user I’d doesn’t bother me either!
So, go geþ a job or go back to sleep – you will not be missed one damned bit.

Go- Figure! 35 names and same old tired azz BS every damned day! T I R E D.

(*_*)

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Old Skoolin’

Ken Strickland, you make so much sense to me. Seems like we share the same brain cells.
The way you explain your point of view sounds so extremely logical, balanced and well
rounded. There are NO holes in your story!

If you don’t like what Mr. Strickland is saying? Then, you just don’t like Mr. Strickland.
That Man is on Fire!

(*_*). Some of you cats are just stubborn and closed minded. Many times the adversary is actually agreeing with the man – but, just argue for the sake or argument.

Listen
Share
Agree
Disagree
Learn

Just, keep it respectable and cordial. Leave that KKK crap in Forsyth. County and in the Back – Woods!

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Rumplestilskin, I am surprised that you are suggesting that Crawford II be the starting pg. Crawford II is a shooter. He is a better passer than anyone expected, but that does not make him an effective pg.

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drmaryb, I noticed in an earlier post that you live in the Aiken, SC area. I was a pastor in Aiken for nine years. It is a unique and wonderful town. I miss Aiken and all my friends there dearly.

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Rev in Tampa

Are you the guy with 35 names on here? He is very sneaky.

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REV IN TAMPA $ DRMARYB-I want to thank both of you for your acknowledgements. I just don’t see the doom and gloom that others seem to see for this team. Every player and every team has weaknesses, but it’s the ability to use strengths to over come those weaknesses is what makes them successful.

Under HC LDrew, this yrs Hawks will finally be able to use their speed, quickness, athleticism, bench, rookies, young players, an actual OFF and DEF system and versatility to become an elite team.

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Take Josh Boone best deal for the money Good defensive player I’ll come watch the games in Atlanta watched him all thru college have a college package on TV to a national championship not many NBA players have that ring. Sandi Savannah GA

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Defensive guru?
09-10 Opponents scored 103.78 pts against the guru’s Pacers while the switching defense surrendered only 97.02 ppg.

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Rev in Tampa,

Kewl. Yes Sir, I was born in Aiken, SC and lived on the border of Augusta, GA. An awesome place to
grow up, even if it was the 60’s. (smile). My Father was from Manhattan, NY, so lots of family there too.

I love my home town and life style growing up. I was a Tennis Prodigy at age 4 years and
played for the College of Charleston on a 4 year scholarship. Tennis is my Racket!
I play and teach in my spare time.

My Grandfather was a Baptist Minister when I was a kid. When were you there?

I’ve been Atlanta since 1986! Wow, does the time fly! That’s why these Hawks got to
Hurry Up and win something, before I’m too old to celebrate a champion!

(*_*)

Thanks, Sir.

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Ken Strickland

Hey Ken, no problem baby, you know – got your back “Like a Bobby Knight tight red sweater.”
Hope you are taking care of yourself and feeling better.

You know me & how I pick my battles. I like intelligent conversations. Aye .. You know I have always been a die-hard Woodson supporter. Till the very end. But, even had to admitt his time was done here.
And, whatever we had – we had.

Just because we love each other, doesn’t mean we agree on everything. But, the level of respect
is what supports a healthy, decent conversation. As, Cedric the Entertainer would say.

I will support, L.D. Or whoever the HC would have been as well. Aye … I’m just a true blue
Hawks Fan – period. I could care less who comes or goes – just WIN more that Lose.

And, compete for a Title! I like our team, we do need some help though! Outside help
would be nice to see as well!

(*_*)

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And while I’m here . . let me try to totally DISMANTLE Mr. Strickland’s rant against Shaq.

Ken Strickland

And the big man ( Shaq ) was now just a good center ( 14 ppg – 8 rebs – 58% FG ), not a superstar center. There was no chemistry whatsoever with the Heat that year. Their window of opportunity was gone. This led to the Shaq trade for Shawn Marion.

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SMH . . I hate that there’s no edit feature on here. I wasn’t trying to bold the entire post.

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Good Job northcyde. Could not have done it better myself.

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Rev in Tampa

If you listen to Ken he will both educate you & steer you straight.
Now drmaryb is a *sparkplug* & as an abettor one could not ask
for a finer choice.
Same for Big Ray & Sautee.
There are many fine folk in our community, here.
Too many to name.
However, the one of many alias’ is most farcical yet puerile.
Now, you may have been on the blog longer than myself,
if so, I’m just an ol’ [old] country boy & basketball purest.
Your blogger-name suggests we are brothers.
Hebrews 11:1

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From Ken Strickland:

Before Shaq arrived in Phoenix, in 05-06 they were 54-28 and lost in the Western Conference Finals. In 06-07 they were 61-21 and made the semifinals. In 07-08 they were 55-27 and lost in the 1st rd. In 08-09, when Shaq arrived, they we 46-36 and missed the playoffs. And like Miami, they immediately sent his sorry butt packing to Cleveland.

**********************

To understand why Phoenix would make a move for Shaq in the first place, you have to go back a year earlier. The Suns had won 61 games in the 06 – 07 season. They were the #2 seed in the West, behind the infamous Dallas Maverick 67 win team ( that lost to Golden St in the 1st round ). After ripping through the Lakers, they faced their longtime nemesis, the San Antonio Spurs. Of course, they lost the series, partially because of the lack of depth they had upfront. But also because Steve Kerr was coming to the realization that “speedball” would never get them to championship level.

The trade of Marion for Shaq was a dramatic shift for that team. They finally got a legit big man to play the middle, while also being able to move Amare Stoudemire to PF. It was seen to be the right move for the Suns to finally get past the Spurs.

LOL . . but it wasn’t. They not only needed Shaq for more frontcourt depth, they also needed a defensive PG to stop Tony Parker. And having a bench would’ve helped too. So the Suns lose to the Spurs, once again, in the First round.

The next season, after D’Antoni is let go, Terry Porter tries to slow down the Suns and have them play better defense in order for them to win games. Shaq has his best season in 2 years ( 18 pts – 8 rebs – 61% FG ). But the Suns, and especially Amare Stoudemire, wasn’t cool with the “slow down” Suns, even though they were still 4th in pace that year. The Suns had Jason Richardson, they had Matt Barnes, but they never bought into the fact ( actually it was really Amare and Nash that didn’t buy into it ), that DEFENSE wins championships . . not speedball. That team finished 26th in defense, and it was one of the major reasons why the Suns “only” won 46 games and missed the playoffs.

Shaq’s fault? Nah. He had the #1 win score on the team that year and had the best defensive win score. Amare was 4th in defensive win score . . . Nash was 8th

But to appease the Phoenix fans that were used to “speedball”, they got rid of Shaq. As long as Nash is there, “speedball” will be successful in the win column. It won’t win them a title, but it is successful. They made a great run in the playoffs last season, due to their bench really stepping up, and due to Amare playing better defense. So you have to give them credit for at least trying to see if Shaq could put them over the top, then jettison him when the experiment didn’t work. But because they are cheap, we’ll see if loss of Amare Stoudemire can be overcome.

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drmaryb

In Dirks defense he was losing in the west. The Spurs & Lakers have won 9 of the last 11 titles. You can’t even mention Dirk & JJ in the same sentence.

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From Ken Strickland:

In 07-08, with Ilgouskas as their center, Cleveland was 45-37 and made it to conference semi finals. In 08-09 they were 66-16 and made it to the NBA finals, and in 09-10, with Shaq as their starting center, they were 61-21 and got hammered by Boston in the semi finals.

Let’s talk about the great 66 win Cleveland team. They looked like a juggernaut in those first 2 rounds, sweeping Detroit, then us. Then they faced Orlando. By Game 3, it was obvious what the problem was. While Big Z was decent, he couldn’t handle Howard. And Ben Wallace sure in the heck couldn’t handle Howard. Cleveland needed another big man to throw up against Howard, to see if they could get over the top. As always, Shaq was the best big man available, so they get him.

The Cavs were 40 – 13 with Shaq in the lineup last year. The games that he missed didn’t see the team fall off, like in other years. They were 21 – 8 without Shaq, which is pretty much a similar rate of winning with or without him.

Fast forward to that Boston series. Shaq’s role on that team was to supplement the frontline. He was NOT brought in to be a dominant center. He was brought in to be a solid piece in the middle that could help that frontline out. And hopefully, be the guy that could slow down Dwight Howard in a potential matchup with Orlando.

But in that series, the fan favorite J.J. Hickson barely played toward the end of the series. Anderson Varejao didn’t start a single game vs Boston. Big Z was a non-factor, not even playing in 3 of the games vs Boston.

Shaq averaged 13.5 pts, 5 rebs, and shot 52% FG and a “great for him” 66% FT in 23 minutes in the Cleveland series.

Shaq’s fault? I would have to say no again. There are too many people who underachieved in that series, and didn’t even get close to their season averages.

- Antoine Jamison ( 2nd best player on the team ): 12 pts – 7 rebs – a dismal 42% FG
- Mo Williams: shot 21% from 3 point range in the series ( was a 43% shooter during the season )
- “Prince” James: 45% FG – 27% 3FG – 4.5 TOs in the series ( plus flat out giving up in Game 5 . . a game in which Shaq was the only one playing in the game ).

*****************************

Since the 05-06 season, when he won the NBA title with Miami, Shaq has been a cancer, and hurt all 3 teams he’s played for. If he can’t help improve a team as a starter, how in hell can you expect him to help a team coming off the bench, especially if he’s opposed to doing it? STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES!!

If he’s opposed to doing it, then there’s nothing we can do. But the fact is that Shaq’s presence on his last 3 teams has NOT been the reason why those teams didn’t succeed.

The case that could be made for the Hawks, that is different than what he experienced in Phoenix and Cleveland, is that we have 2 very good PFs that we could play alongside him at all times. And because his presence takes up space in the middle, it could make those young PFs even better players. It would make life easier for our young frontcourt, instead of them having to battle to the death against bigger guys on a nightly basis.

I’ll admit. Maybe you don’t go off the deep end and trade Marvin to bring Shaq in. But he is the best big man available, and he’s the only one in the group that could dramatically change our future as a team in the short term . . both on the court, and economically at the gate.

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ROD FROM CP-If you look exclusively to find excuses for doubting a team or player, anyone can find them. You make an issue of potential adjustment problems Hawk players might have with LDrew’s new OFF/DEF systems. Yet, you are ready to crown Miami the new king of the East, and maybe the entire NBA, without remotely considering they could very easily have the same problems, only worse. WHERE’S THE LOGIC?

NORTHCYDE-none of what you presented will change the facts and stats I presented one bit. As I stated in a previous post, Shaq is soft, injury prone, and won’t play hurt. Both Kobe and DWade experienced that first hand, and neither player wants any part of him.

RAMON-there’s much more to good interior DEF than blocking and/or altering shots. The Bad Boy Pistons had Lambeer at center, and he certainly wasn’t a shot blocker or alterer. However, he did have 2 guards that played some serious perimeter DEF. Tell me, if shot blocking and shot altering is so important, explain why Denver was able to improve defensively after trading the NBA’s leading rebounder, shot blocker, shot alterer, and DEF player of the yr, MCamby?

I’ll tell you why. They also got rid of PG AIverson, who was a total DEF liability. They then replaced him with PG CBillups, who took their perimeter DEF to an entirely different level, which eliminated their need for the NBA’s leading shot blocker and alterer.

I’ll take a team that plays good team DEF any day over a team that depends on one player, like Orlando. If we learned anything from watching the Celtics in this yrs playoffs, we saw what an aging, injured, but gallant, team can accomplish with good perimeter and good team DEF. Both AHorford and JSmith were better shot blockers, alterer’s and defenders before we went exclusively to Woodson’s switching DEF to hide Bibby and JCrawford’s DEF issues.

JJ will be a better perimeter defender, since Teague’s presence will allow him to defend SG’s, and not be worn down defending the PG’s that routinely blew past Bibby. I see a return to the days when Smoove was changing gms with his DEF, and challenging for the shot blocking title.

One good thing did come out of the switching DEF, and that was it made MWilliams a much better and more versatile defender. Teague will use his speed and quickness at PG to fight over picks and recover quickly. And with the new requirement to play straight up man DEF and fight over picks, teams will no longer enjoy the luxury of using pick and rolls to create mismatches and destroy us, like they did consistently with Woodson.

The acquisitions of most Eastern teams, and their projected improvement, will be felt primarily on the offensive, not defensive side of the ball. The Hawks, on the other hand, will improve in both areas. JTeague alone will improve our DEF, and his speed, quickness, athleticism, penetrating ability, and one man fast break capability, will automatically improve our OFF.

JTeague will be the first PG we’ve had in a decade with the ability to penetrate and create easy scoring opportunities for others.

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Not one mention of how good Jordan Crawford looked in SL from the NBA TV crew. It’s all about John Wall and Demarcus Cousins. Wall looked good, but Cousins didnt impress me that much. Crawford looked more NBA ready than most of the guys that they’re praising. But oh well, I’m used to it. The Hawks will never get respect, until they win it all. Plain and simple.

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NorthCyde

Hey man! How’s everybody in Tennessee doing post-flood? Back to normal?
Great Post as always, very insightful stuff. Either Shaq is injury-prone or just old –
or sand-bagging his knees for the play-offs?

He could definitely help the Hawks, as could A.I. The problem with both these old
Super-Stars is that, are Þhey willing and able to accept the role that their team need.
IDK about Shaq, except he allegedly wants to start with significant playing time and
was looking for 8 to 10 Million/Per. It has already been well documented that Iverson
flat out refuses to come off the bench. He may agree to at the signing but, will become
disruptive when lesser talent plays ahead of him.

If Shaq wants Horford to back him up? That may be a huge issue, therefore team chemistry errodes.
IDK what Shaq’s demands are?

Ramon

Great insight re: Thibbedeau. I saw the exact same thing and actually posted that when he
was bantied about for the HC position in New Orleans. He seems extremely intense and
down right scary to me. Reminiscent of Doug Collins, maybe more so.

I saw him staring at the court in Boston round 2. I thought dude was gonna run out on the
floor and play defense himself. LOL!

Today’s player don’t respond very well and very long to micro-management IMO!
See Avery Johnson, he has taken “Little General” to a whole new level. (See Dallas).
Byron Scott, same thing – allegedly. That ISH gets old real fast in modern day sports, IMO.

Tony Dungy never yelled up a Championship last I checked. Effective communication and
treating players like men, usually does the trick.

All these FA’s will need time to gel and acclimate to all their new teams, coaches and systems. That takes some time, perhaps by the All-Star break.

(*_*)

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NothCyde

Put the stats aside for a minute, anybody cam look good on paper. But, the game is not
Played on paper – its between the ears and the lines.

If, Cleveland didn’t bring Shaq in to be dominant and WIN? Why pay him 20M to do what
Z was already doing? That’s why the GM got fired both in Phoenix and Cleveland.
For taking huge risks on Shaq and paying him 20M/per to ride the bench with injuries all year and be
average in the play offs. Its time to let the young guys play and develop that play off experience.

Shaq has been one and done all over the league lately! Sure he can help us, but he
need to come off the bench and lower his salary demands. He is NOT that 20M guy anymore.

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Ken Sigura …. Hello! ….Anybody there?

Aye …. MC has spoiled us, we usually get our daily bread – daily. And, water on the regular.
I’ve been slammed busy, but I’m headed over to Blue-Rays blog and blow up his spot from
here on out.

(*_*)

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Ken Strickland & NorthCyde

Two super heavy weights, slugging it out in the 14th round!
I got my popcorn and sippy-cup (adult beverage) this is one heck-uv-a debate.
Very Scholarly and quite pragmatic!

There will be no Loser in this battle of wills and thrills!

Fantastic points and rebuttals! I got 50 on each, either way – I win!

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