Atlanta Hawks: Getaway day
There will be a blog hiatus for a couple weeks while I get away for some me time. There’s a chance I might drop in with a post if anything interesting happens with the Hawks but don’t count on that (either something interesting happening or me dropping in). Meanwhile the beat will be in the capable hands of Ken S., who will chronicle the Hawks’ attempts to pluck a center from the bargain bin.
I suspect not much will have changed with my blog people when I return. Truth-Serum will still be using his multiple identities to agree with himself that Al is a terrible defensive center. JeJe will continue to rip ASG for not letting J.J. walk and using all that cap space to SIGN FREAKIN’ LEBRON. And all of you will wonder how in the heck this squad is supposed to make a move in the East with basically the same guys suiting up.
Be easy until I get back, blog people. Remember, it’s all love and and it’s just basketball . . .
MC
(Note: Commenting is closed until Michael returns Aug. 2)
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1,155 comments Add your comment
Fundamentals
July 19th, 2010
3:35 pm
I can buy that Ken, but what happens on D when you have Bibby and Crawford in the backcourt? Is Bibby going to have more energy with less minutes and will Crawford committ to winning and not the 6th man role?
Alot of our “Bigs” and “Interior D” issues do stem from a lack of stopping the ball and being forced to help and switch. Hopefully LD and Conners will invoke responsibility for each man to guard his man.
I just really like the looks of Sy bringing the ball up. The kids got the “it” factor to me. Looks like a capable PG and potentially strong defender. JC2 seems to be a player we need to put to work. He definitely makes Mo and Bibby expendable. Even JC1 if we could get something truly special down low.
What happened to Matt Barnes signing Friday? His big surprise was he’s as unreliable at keeping his singing promises like Lebron?
bigdave
July 19th, 2010
3:39 pm
“To have somebody that can be down there and be strong and dominant, somebody that is going to rebound and finish around the bucket and catch the ball. Me and Al can take care of the rest.
We could use a little more help, a little more depth. I think we do extremely well with a lot of the bigs in the league. We seem to struggle with guys like Dwight and . . . just pretty much Dwight. We need somebody who can help us with that if we have to face him in the playoffs again.”
these are comments made when Josh was asked about the possible acquisition of Shaq..
Ken Strickland
July 19th, 2010
3:40 pm
DICKAU-you also see the light. Last yr, in addition to losing 5 gms in overtime, we lost 3 additional gms by 3pts, 1 by 2pts and 2 by 1pt. That’s 11 gms, and if we won 6 of those 11 winnable gms, we would have won 59 gms. These don’t include the embarrassing 4th quarter come from behind losses to Chicago, Detroit, Toronto, Golden State, Charlotte and New York, which were by more than 3pts.
Rondo
July 19th, 2010
3:43 pm
Matt Barnes is garbage and can’t create his own shot.All he does mostly is hang around the perimeter waiting for the open shot.The guy is also an average defender.The hawks already have a
Matt Barnes on there team. Mo Evans.
drmaryb
July 19th, 2010
3:49 pm
Around the World?
“I’ve been around the world, and I can’t find my baby.”. (-artist unknown-). Astro Joe, where you at?
Sometimes what you are looking for, was right there in front of you – all the time.
Aye, we got the same coaches and players, so you can take your pick on which one that was:
L.D.
Joe
Collins
Teague
Mmmmmh …. (*_*)
Rondo
July 19th, 2010
3:50 pm
Pape Sy is very soft and fragile and must be handled with care thats why the hawks will send him back to Europe for further development. I hope he eats his grits and Wheaties and be done manned-up before the hawks sign him after next season.
Fundamentals
July 19th, 2010
3:51 pm
Rondo,
Does Matt Barnes allow folks to blow by him on the perimeter and rack up foul after foul? Barnes is touted by most anyone in the NBA as a premier defensive specialist who can also rebound fairly well, two skills we need. I’m not worried about his scoring. We don’t have enough balls already.
drmaryb
July 19th, 2010
3:53 pm
Rondo
You nake a argueable point there re: Barnes. I actually preferred Raja Bell or Tony Allen, but oh well,
regardless of who we prefer? We get Nothing!
ASKG! smdh
Fundamentals
July 19th, 2010
3:53 pm
Rondo,
I can see that. Same with Gladyr. Kid can shoot it. When’s the last time we had reason to get excited about 2nd round picks in ATL? Much less when is the first time we really heard folks talking about our 1st round pick being a steal where we got him? I feel like we’ve drafted well under Sund, but I’m sure I’ll get bashed by who thinks we could’ve done better than Teague.
Fundamentals
July 19th, 2010
3:54 pm
Allen and Raja aren’t available anymore, Barnes is?
Who else is out there? Not that we’ll get them, but it’s fun.
Ken Strickland
July 19th, 2010
3:58 pm
FUNDAMENTALS-we now have a HC who’s not married to a limited, fixed rotation, and doesn’t have a bias against rookies and younger guards, or for vets. With the addition of Jordan Crawford, LDrew has the option of playing Bibby with anyone he chooses. If Bibby isn’t getting it done offensively or defensively, unlike Woodson, LDrew will bench his butt, rather than allowing him to become a liability to the team like Woodson insisted on doing.
As far as the impact assistant LConnor can have on the team, we only have to look at the Celtics to see how that can work. No one has ever accused PPierce and RAllen of being DEF stalworths, but they certainly looked the part, along with KGarnett playing on one leg, in the DEF designed by former assistant coach, and Chicago’s new HC, Tom Thibodeau.
Rondo
July 19th, 2010
4:00 pm
A lot of the hawks guys were out of position on defense because of defensive schemes by opposing coaches to take advantage of mis-matches.Better defensive system = Better defensive play and no easy baskets and no players for the most part out of position defensively.So the Hawks next season really have no need for Matt Barnes.Well probably they will need him for open set shots on offense.
Melvin
July 19th, 2010
4:02 pm
Do yall think Nique will pull strings and have his nephew sign with the Hawks.
drmaryb
July 19th, 2010
4:04 pm
I don’t believe anyone said Allen and Bell were available!
I said, “I actually preferred Raja Bell or Tony Allen.”. Preferred indicates past tense, indicating –
A thing of the past! (I.E. No longer available). Reading Comprehension People – R.I.F.
Regardless of who we prefer, Matt Barnes not withstanding, we GET NOTHING!
That was and IS my point! Do you see any new faces around here – anywhere?
ASKG – “They Lie!”
(*_*)
Fundamentals
July 19th, 2010
4:06 pm
Ken,
I’m definitely excited by what I see from LD, Conners, Teague, JC2, Sy and even Aminu. I’m hoping to see the regular season unfold as you’re describing. Keeping the kids hungry and accountable should push them all to do better. I expected so much more from Bibby last year. He just seemed to give up once Crawford emerged. Hopefully LD can maximize our talent, b/c we really don’t need much to push us forward. We have an excellent team. I think the best we’ve had in quite some time coming back. It should be exciting. I’m looking forward to it. I just propose ideas and thoughts hoping I’m making us the best we can be.
I hope all the players know I value each of their contributions. I back them 100% towards our team goal.
In all due respect to Mo, he gave the effort when given the opportunity. I just wish he as a tad taller and longer, but he definitely has heart and plays hard. I love that.
Bibby has the potential to still be an awesome floor general. He can run our team. Does he have the gas in the tank for extended minutes? Probably not, but at least 50-50 or even as this year’s 6th man?
There’s a new vibe for this season in my mind. A few crummy bloggers can’t diminish that hope or optimism for me. I do wish we’d add a few more quality pieces with our trade exception and available slots, but we’ll see what happens.
O'Brien
July 19th, 2010
4:06 pm
Marvin scores 10 or 11 ppg. If Matt Barnes splits time with Marvin, Barnes would score just as many points.
And statistically, Barnes is a better defender than Marvin. Not to mention the fact that Matt Barnes made 66 three point FG compared to only 40 for Marvin.
Fundamentals
July 19th, 2010
4:11 pm
My sincere apologies drmaryb – I didn’t catch the reading comprehension part. I narrow mindedly got angry at mentioning what’s gone and not mentioning what’s still out there. If they’re gone…they’re gone. I prefer alot of players, but it doesn’t matter if we can’t get them. I too am just pissed and see your point – we’re most likely not getting anyone.
Rondo = I can buy that as well. Holding folks individually accountable will help the need for Barnes, but he might still be an assett as would a big or two and a good 3 pt threat.
Lester Conner’s defensive philosophy should be our new team motto!
Rod from College Park
July 19th, 2010
4:12 pm
Rondo,
“Matt Barnes is garbage and can’t create his own shot.All he does mostly is hang around the perimeter waiting for the open shot.The guy is also an average defender.The hawks already have a Matt Barnes on there team. Mo Evans.”
He actually gives you the same production as Marvin offensively, can create a shot better than Marvin can, and is considered around the league as an above average defender. You could probably get his services for about 3 to 4 mill less than you pay Marvin. The comparison should be made to Marvin not Mo Evans, as Mo has been forced to play out of position. Mo is a natural 2, and Barnes can play the 2 or the 3 easily at 6′7. Mo Evans is only 6′5 and should not be guarding wings(3’s) unless he is forced to.
drmaryb
July 19th, 2010
4:14 pm
Funfamentals
That little rant was not pointed at you, Sir. That is just frustration for being
LIED to by the ASKG:
Atlanta Spirit-Killer Group!
(*_*)
Rod from College Park
July 19th, 2010
4:14 pm
Rondo,
“Well probably they will need him for open set shots on offense.”
Those are the same shots that Marvin can’t make.
Rondo
July 19th, 2010
4:15 pm
O’Brien-You could probably hit 50 three pointers in a season if you had a guy like Dwight in the middle. And you would be known as a great defender if all you had to do is stay in front of a guy knowing if your man got buy Dwight got your back.Besides he don’t have great value for the Magic because they know he is Fools Gold.
Grandad
July 19th, 2010
4:22 pm
Ken as always is on point.
I have only a slight disagreement.
-But 1st-
>Summer League assessment:
[it has to do with the line of conversation]
Teaguer became more & more comfortable ea. game.
*We should expect the same during season.
I think LD likes Luke Jackson.
*His intagibles led to PT. [I'm certain of a camp invite]
Jermareo Davidson was better offensively than I thought.
*played scared on def.
Gladyr = Europe
*Gladyr = Europe
Paps = jury out
*Paps lots of ground to make up between now & fall.
JC2, not yet ready to contribute with the varsity. [5th guard]
*JC2, behind on def., decision making, shot selection [be patient]
Others:
Aminu – too inconsistent
Hendrix – consistent but not athletic enough
Randy Morris – I’m sorry, but no thanks
Gilder – bullfighter defense, “ole”
Augustine – didn’t make mistakes…didn’t do much else
-Now back on point-
Where I differ from Ken, is, -my- lack of patience.
We need another good player immediately.
*[not just a name]*(but a good player/ preferredly in the front ct]
This team needs to grow confidence. [real]
Our false confidence was obliterated by Orl.
I agree, trade deadline will bring better value.
However, we need, @ least a tweak now.
Something the fans can grab onto.
Something the players can hang their hat on psychologically.
So far everything has been internal.
Management needs to show them, they, the ASG + Sund is trying.
I believe the ASG got lucky with LD.
Luck only goes so far.
Now back to SL for 1 last item:
-LD-
Dang good job.
Turning those misfits into a cohesive unit.
I cannot wait to see what he can do with real players.
Fundamentals
July 19th, 2010
4:24 pm
Who would you prefer Rondo?
I take my licks when deserved drmaryb. No worries here.
Rondo
July 19th, 2010
4:25 pm
This season Marvin Williams will blossom to the player that you fans know he can be.I know you guys have watched games where Marvin was unstoppable.And he has a great mid-range game.What bothers most of you fans about Marvin is that he will have a big game one night and then might disappear for a span of games. Lets just see if L.D.’s offense can wake up the offensive monster that is in Marvin.You will see his value next season Rod.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 19th, 2010
4:28 pm
We all know by now that the Hawks are not serious about competing in the playoffs, but if they were, they need two perimeter defenders and a center. Joe is one of those perimeter defenders, but the Hawks need another positional defender at SF who will force LeBron to take jump shots. And we all know they struggle with Dwight… that horse has been beaten to a bloody pulp on this blog.
I think Barnes would fill in that perimeter defender role just fine, and Shaq is the ideal acquisition to deal with Howard. I guess I will have to trade for them on NBA 2k11, since the real life Hawks are going to hope and pray that Jason Collins can handle Shaq and Marvin grows the balls to guard LeBron.
Rondo
July 19th, 2010
4:32 pm
Fundamentals-I prefer a savvy vetern like Kurt Thomas who is better than Randmo and Collins combined.Or Josh Boone or Damien Wilkens would do just fine.And Will Bynum over Bibby to split time with Teague at point.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 19th, 2010
4:32 pm
Someone posted this earlier but it bears repeating — Marvin does not need to be a scoring option on this team. In fact, it’s probably better if he isn’t. The Hawks have plenty of scorers. He needs to be the best damn perimeter defender in the league (which he certainly can be with his athleticism and body type) and at least a 38% 3-point shooter. If he can reliably stretch the floor on offense and limit opposing wing scorers to belowmtheir average output, he will be well worth his contract. I don’t need to see him “blossom into the player he can be”. I need to see him efficiently fill the role of perimeter defender and 3-point specialist. Anything else in his game can follow from there.
SteveW
July 19th, 2010
4:33 pm
ASG – spend the 3m you made on draft day!
Only 2 spots left on the roster – Shaq, Tolliver, Brown, Powell, Craig, Alston or who?
They say (NBA HoopsHype) that Joe Smith is one of the best locker room guys in the league – hope he’s not our 12th guy.
RandMo to Tel Aviv according to internet reports
Fundamentals
July 19th, 2010
4:34 pm
Rondo – I pray that potential is realized. LD has some work getting the most out of Smoove as well. We’ve got the talent, I just don’t think we’ve always used it under Woodson. LD’s got an opportunity, but that doesn’t all rest on LD’s shoulders.
What are each of our players doing this summer? Any news from anyone?
Rondo
July 19th, 2010
4:35 pm
Damien Wilkens would be the perimeter defender they will need.Cheaper and more effective than Matt Barnes.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 19th, 2010
4:40 pm
“O’Brien-You could probably hit 50 three pointers in a season if you had a guy like Dwight in the middle. And you would be known as a great defender if all you had to do is stay in front of a guy knowing if your man got buy Dwight got your back.”
There is some truth to this — certainly it is easier to play defense when you have a dominating shot-blocker behind you. Incidentally, the Hawks have one of the best interior help defenders in the league, and if Woody hadn’t been busy playing Smoove and Horford on opposing PGs, the perimeter defense on this team would have probably been much better since those two would have been in the post where they belong. That said. it’s not like you can just throw any player on the perimeter if you have a good post defender — if that were the case, Richard Jefferson would have been just S effectively this season as Bruce Bowen had been before him. Players like Bowen and Barnes don’t put up noticeable numbers, but they are very good at the most fundamental aspect of playing defense, which is keeping one’s body between the other player and the basket to force jumpshots.
SteveW
July 19th, 2010
4:49 pm
Cavs worss – Heat waaay better (and they won 47 last year), Boston with O’Neil better, Magic equal to better, Bulls waaay better, Bucks better – unless there’s alot of injuries on other teams and we stay healthy, no way we win 53 again.
Teague can be Rondo – in 2 years, not this year. JC2 can be Jamal (almost) in about 3 years.
Get a legit Center (I’m ok with Collins, just don’t sign Joe Smith and a scrub for the last 2 guys)
Really wish we would sign Shaq and another PG – but I think the organization believes if Teague or Bibby goes down, Jamal can handle the duties
I am high but realistic on Teague – I believe if he continues to develop, a top 10 or even better PG in the NBA, just not this year. Doesn’t look natural to him – but what quickeness!
Rondo
July 19th, 2010
4:50 pm
Richard Jefferson don’t fit in the role he has with the Spurs.RJ is a scorer and you can tell he doesn’t like his role in San Antonio.Yes Bowen gave superstars like Kobe trouble but who has Barnes been known to give trouble on defense.If Barnes was so good of a defensive player why haven’t Orlando locked him up.Barnes is an ok defender but he ain’t nowhere near a Bruce Bowen.
Rondo
July 19th, 2010
4:53 pm
Barnes can gaurd perimeter shooters but he can’t gaurd nba scorers
SteveW
July 19th, 2010
4:56 pm
FYI – Joe Johnson is not even among the 10 highest paid players in the NBA this season – and Kobe will be making over 30mill. per when he is 35 – JJ less than 25m at 34. Guys, I hate to say it, but we had to do it…
Fundamentals
July 19th, 2010
5:10 pm
Damien would definitely have the pressure to perform under Nique.
We had to pay Joe, deal with it.
Collins is one of the two slots? What’s next?
Fundamentals
July 19th, 2010
5:22 pm
Jefferson is a sell out who hasn’t been able to help any team he’s been with push for a title. No deal for RJ. Bloggers have made me feel better about no Barnes. I still say Mo is odd man out due to his lack of size for our needs.
Still doesn’t discount the need for help down low on D?
Rondo
July 19th, 2010
5:31 pm
Captain Kurt Thomas.Savvy vetern who does the dirty work and gets the job done.He is more like a poor mans Charles Oakly.Great fit if the Hawks are looking for vetern leadership in a big.And he won’t bring in the baggage that The Big Sickness Shaq would have brought.
Fundamentals
July 19th, 2010
5:32 pm
Thomas definitely worked hard against us. Proved some good value.
drmaryb
July 19th, 2010
6:05 pm
Fundamentals
I really like YOU. You, Sir, are a class act. (*_*)
Ken Strickland
July 19th, 2010
6:08 pm
DAP01-I agree with you on the fact JCollins was out of shape, but he wasn’t the only player on the team that was out of shape. Starting PG MBibby has so out of shape Woodson felt he had to rely on the switching DEF to allow him to play extended mins. Bibby couldn’t fight over picks or stay in front of anybody, and both he, our uptempo OFF and early season 107PPG average collapsed as he wore down.
GRANDAD-I see that tweak possibly coming off our summer league roster, if not someone else’s.
STEVEW-JTeague, JJohnson, AHorford, JSmith, MWilliams, MBibby, ZPachulia, MEvans, JaCrawford, JoCrawford and JCollins make 11 players already under contract. That leaves only one slot left to add a player, who’s definitely going to be a minimum salaried player. They’ll probably want to remain financially flexible just in case they need to clear a roster spot for a player later.
I honestly believe the ASG wants to wait until the trade deadline, to see what HC LDrew has done with the roster we have, before committing to spending any more money. If we’re battling for the division title, and/or a top seed in the East, I can see them opening their wallets to sign what we need, be it a center, PG or both.
At this point, anyone that’s been keeping up with what some of our players have been saying about HC LDrew and his OFF/DEF systems, and still feel he’s nothing more than Woodson 11, is definitely clueless.
Rod from College Park
July 19th, 2010
6:20 pm
Rondo,
I won’t be holding my breath waiting on Marvin to become anything of value. He has been given ample oppurtunity and has failed miserably. Marvin has received more wide open looks than any 3 in the league, because teams choose not to even guard him, or put a 6′3 guard on him, and he can’t take advantage of that. It amazes me that some of you actually think he will be a better player in another system. He will never in his career, receive better looks than he received the last couple of years. Not sure about all of these great scoring games he has had that you are talking about. I can remember maybe 5 to 10 in his whole career.
Najeh,
Agreed that Marvin doe not have to be a big scorer, but this team becomes much more dangerous if he is a threat. He is not even a threat on the floor now. Thus his invisible man moniker. I am not impressed at all with his defense either. Wallace/Jackson desroy him most of the time, Granger destroys him most of the time, forcing Joe to have to cover him, Lebron put up 50 on us last year after everyone talked about what great defense Marvin plays on him, Pierce always goes for big numbers on us in the playoffs…. The main problem with Marvin on the defensive side also, is his man does not have to worry about him on the offensive end. That’s part of the reason why he is such a liability. It’s like we are playing 4 against 5 with him on the floor offensively, and defensively with him and Bibby, we end up playing 3 against 5, as he is a waeker defender that Josh, Joe and Horford.
drmaryb
July 19th, 2010
6:24 pm
Ken Strickland
1 spot left? I think the league maximum is 13 and the minimum is 12?
We need to fill 2 more spots, in case of injuries. Correct me, if I’m wrong.
(*_*)
O'Brien
July 19th, 2010
6:44 pm
Drmaryb,
League maximum is 15, minimum is 12.
Rondo,
On the court, Marvin received a lot of open looks from JJ’s double teams. But he still missed. Also, Matt Barnes can guard the 2 or the 3 (he has been asked to guard Kobe before).
On our team, JJ ends up guarding lebron or Pierce or Granger sometimes, especially in crunch time (all those guys are SFs).
Not to mention Marvin makes $7.5 mil per year. Matt Barnes will probably make half of that. So who is the better value for the money?
I agree with you about Kurt Thomas though. We saw first hand how he held his own against horford, so I don’t know why sund would not bring him in.
O'Brien
July 19th, 2010
6:46 pm
Drmaryb,
League minimum might be 13
Ken Strickland
July 19th, 2010
6:46 pm
FUNDAMENTALS-I’m with you my friend. I’m also anxious to see everything fall into place, allowing the team can muzzle all of these negative thinkers. For the last 3 seasons, these negative thinkers have used the same lame BS excuse by saying the Hawks couldn’t win more gms than the previous yr because other Eastern teams had improved. And each season the team proved them all wrong by going from 39 to 47 to 53 wins, and from the 8th to 4th to 3rd seed respectively.
How can replacing KHinrich’s DEF, and his 10.9PPG, 4.5APG & 3.3RPG with KKorver’s 7.2PPG, 1.7APG & 2.1RPG, and limited DEF at best, be an improvement for the Bulls? Adding PF CBoozer could end up having the same negative affect on LDeng, and overall team chemistry, that adding EBrand had on Iguodala and Philly’s overall team chemistry. What looks good on paper doesn’t always translate into success on the court.
I STAND BY MY PROJECTIONS!!
Ken Strickland
July 19th, 2010
6:49 pm
DRMARYB-you’re not wrong, I was referring to the 12 man active roster.
drmaryb
July 19th, 2010
6:50 pm
OBRIEN
So, it’s 15 … Well, how many did we toll last season? Seems like we are trying to get to 13 then.
WOW! How many players do the Elite teams toll?
Lakers
Boston
Cetics
No wonder we aways seem to play 12 against 15. HC need OPTIONS ….man OPTIONS.
JoJo the Godfather
July 19th, 2010
6:55 pm
Rod, the stats say that Marvin was a pretty good defender at the SF position last year…He DEFENDED his position as well or better than most all-stars at the position…I’m with you though, he has got to knock down the open jumper…His form is way too good for that shot not to fall consistently…Has to be in his head.
JeJe
July 19th, 2010
6:56 pm
This blog sucks.