Atlanta Hawks: Shaq and their summer struggles
Las Vegas–First the Shaq scuttlebutt, then the game. . .
The Marvin for Shaq sign-and-trade appears to be a non-starter. The Hawks have consistently said they like their core, and that includes Marvin. So they are not looking to move Marvin for Shaq when he’s playing under what they consider to be a reasonable contract for a starting 3 whom they still believe can blossom under L.D.
Shaq is pushing for the sign-and-trade because he wants to be paid above the mid-level exception–a person familiar with his thinking said Shaq wants something like $16 million for two years after seeing other free agent centers sign lucrative deals. Shaq also wants to start but it doesn’t look like he will get that or the money from Atlanta. In fact, after post-J.J. indications that the Hawks were willing to push their payroll above the luxury-tax threshold of $70.3 million, it’s becoming increasingly clear ASG wants to avoid paying the tax.
With their payroll at roughly $65 million, the Hawks aren’t likely to use the full mid-level exception of $5.8 million to add the minimum of three players they need to get to 13. So the challenge for GM Rick Sund is to add veteran impact players to the roster under those financial constraints. That means Brad Miller likely is out of Atlanta’s price range and they’ll have to wait and see which veteran centers are still around when the dust settles.
Unless Sund can somehow find an impact player at a bargain, Atlanta’s rotation in 2010-11 figures to look a lot like 2009-10. If that’s the case, Atlanta’s belief in its core group figures to be tested.
Spurs 89, Hawks 84
– This wasn’t a good effort for the Hawks. They got off to a slow start again and Lester Conner said he might change the lineup against Milwaukee tomorrow. Turnovers were the problem this time: seven in the first quarter, 15 at the half and 22 for the game. San Antonio recorded 17 steals, which is crazy even for Summer League.
– A rough outing for Teague, who had nine turnovers and once again rushed things at winning time. He just didn’t look all that into it at times, particularly when D-Leaguer Carldell “Squeaky” Johnson picked his pocket for a layup and blew by him for an assist on consecutive plays. “He didn’t take care of the ball and he didn’t run the team the way we’d like,” Conner said.
– It’s one thing for raw rookie Pape Sy to be bothered by ball pressure, another for Teague to look unnerved by it. “Just one of those games,” Teague said. “I think I am just going to start passing the ball up to the wings instead of bringing it up. It takes too long into the shot clock for to get the offense going . That’s how it’s going to be when I play with Joe and those guys, anyway.”
– In defense of Teague and the Hawks, they haven’t had much time to build any kind of cohesion. Conner said L.D.’s offense “might be too sophisticated for this group” because they keep abandoning the calls and freelancing. Then again, this wasn’t an opponent sending out NBAers like the Grizz did Monday. The Spurs sent out D-League free agents and led 52-36 at the half.
– The Hawks rallied again after halftime. They cut down on the turnovers and Teague, JC2 and Trey Gilder got going on offense. But the game got away from the Hawks when Teague jacked up a bricked 3-pointer, the Hawks fell asleep on D and allowed a James Gist dunk and then the Spurs got an offensive rebound on a missed free throw.
– It was another overall positive effort for Crawford., who scored 20 points while shooting 6 of 11. He didn’t draw many fouls at Xavier but earned seven free-throw attempts against San Antonio. Crawford spent some time at point guard and again showed good vision but also had a couple turnovers while forcing cross-court passes into traffic.
– Crawford’s talent is obvious. The Hawks just have to harness it. “He can score the basketball but he doesn’t know about shot selection yet,” Conner said. “That’s expected. We put him at point guard and they got into him.”
– Gilder looked pretty good on the wing. He’s got a slight build but he’s long, quick and smooth.
– The Hawks like Richard Hendrix’s physical game. He was strong on the block and also showed some pretty good footwork.
– After doing little against Memphis, RandMo came back with a strong effort.
– Sy was scratched with a sore right Achilles’. He said he injured it during the game Monday and most likely would sit out tomorrow vs. Milwaukee. James Augustine left the game due to a sprained ankle.
– I’m out, blog people.
MC
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334 comments Add your comment
bigdave
July 14th, 2010
11:14 pm
“it’s becoming increasingly clear ASG wants to avoid paying the tax. ”
“the Hawks aren’t likely to use the full mid-level exception of $5.8 million to add the minimum of three players they need to get to 13″
“have to wait and see which veteran centers are still around when the dust settles.”
lol.
O'Brien
July 14th, 2010
11:22 pm
bigdave,
So much for adding to the team through free agency. So much for going into luxury tax for the right guy (I guess LeBron, Kobe, and Wade were not available).
So much for using the $3 mil from the #31 pick to help in free agency.
The least they can do is keep it real with the fans, and stop giving us false promises.
HAWKMAN
July 14th, 2010
11:22 pm
teague, cant handle the point. bibby at the point won 53 games. and to trade marvin for shaq, is just plain stupid.
bigdave
July 14th, 2010
11:24 pm
“Here’s a mistake… assuming that we trade Marvin and the ASG goes out and spends more money on someone better than Jarvis Hayes or James Jones. Come on people, how many times and years do you need to see passiveness in action regarding this franchise? Josh Howard? Matt Barnes? More like Donta Smith or Othella Hunter.”
-Astro Joe
“I don’t know why folk still think that the ASG will spend the MLE, but if you choose to believe that fantasy, then use it to move guys to their natural position. Not to move a 4-time All-Star to a place where he can no longer over-power his opponent. Yes, Joe will end his career at SF but let’s not rush him there.”
-Astro Joe
hey, StroJoe
can i get some lottery numbers? mega millions.. power ball maybe..? got some student loans to pay off..
bigdave
July 14th, 2010
11:25 pm
Obrien…
right… lol
bigdave
July 14th, 2010
11:26 pm
Kwame Brown anyone..? if we’re lucky Kurt Thomas?
and we reeeeeally need to think about adding a guard..
who’s collecting donations?
Melvin
July 14th, 2010
11:29 pm
Selling 31st pick for 3 mil to spend on FAs was all a lie. They (ASG) only wanted the cash…. If we are going to keep the core of this team than we need to get rid of the ownership group. One or the other has to go…
Jerry West
July 14th, 2010
11:29 pm
So the same team + Kurt Thomas? Yay.
Melvin
July 14th, 2010
11:31 pm
bigdave,
Kwame is out of their price range as well. Anyone who will not accept the vet min will be out of there price range…
JoJo the Godfather
July 14th, 2010
11:33 pm
Something I didn’t really like to hear from Teague…”I think I am just going to start passing the ball up to the wings instead of bringing it up. It takes too long into the shot clock to get the offense going . That’s how it’s going to be when I play with Joe and those guys, anyway.”…Sounds too passive to me…We still need to find a leader at PG…Teague should be the backup for now…Can Kirk Hinrich lead this team? Jose Calderon?
bigdave
July 14th, 2010
11:35 pm
Gilder kinda puts you in the mind of a poor man’s Jamario Moon, if there is a such thing.. basically the lanky cat with hops, plays d, and hits open shots at your local YMCA..
bigdave
July 14th, 2010
11:36 pm
Cousins is a grown man.
bigdave
July 14th, 2010
11:37 pm
welp.. Melvin, can you rebound and defend.. im sure you’ll play for it..
MsDee
July 14th, 2010
11:37 pm
Im not worried about Teague off night tonight b/c 1st of all, half those guys aren’t going to make the team anyway cause they cant finish a shot/layup..2nd of all, as far as Im concern, this IS Teague’s rookie season all over again cause he played little to no min all season plus he never played in a summer league b4. And 3rd, someone made a good point that Rondo was just as bad when he started, now look at him now, with all the confidence in the world with the help of a great coach. Drew will be that coach for him. So I dont care if Teague makes 9 more TO’s next game, I dont see no one bashing John Wall for his 16 total TO’s in 2 games??
JeJe
July 14th, 2010
11:39 pm
“I think I am just going to start passing the ball up to the wings instead of bringing it up. It takes too long into the shot clock for to get the offense going . That’s how it’s going to be when I play with Joe and those guys, anyway.”
LOL
Get Calderon
ASG is biggest joke in sports. You see Cuban linked to every player in this league. ASG is content signing old bigs with no gas left in the tank for the minimum.
DIDNT EVEN GET JOE TO TAKE A PAYCUT LOL
MsDee
July 14th, 2010
11:39 pm
I want Hendrex to be the back-up center if we cant get Shaq for the MLE. I wouldnt give up Marvin though. Shaq for the MLE or no Shaq at all!!! I have the feeling Hendrex could be the next thang to Glen Davis!
JeJe
July 14th, 2010
11:40 pm
I urge everyone to watch the Sund interview on hawks.com. This guy speaks with this air of confidence like this roster is set. Does not even address us getting destroyed by Cleveland/Orlando in the playoffs 2 consecutive years
Melvin
July 14th, 2010
11:44 pm
bigdave,
i will be the 2nd coming of Mario West with handles and a jumpshot for that vet min…:)
MsDee
July 14th, 2010
11:46 pm
JoJo the Godfather,
Again, u have to understand this is his 1st summer league, and u cant count last season cause he played no meaningful min, just ‘game-decided’ min. So if he say stuff like that is maybe he still feels pressure cause this summer league is high-lighting him. I think he will be just fine once he FINALLY gets to practice with the starters. Remember, he hasnt practiced or played yet with the starters..last season was bench players and now with those TRYING to make the team. Give him a break on his comment,its just pressure thats all!!
Melvin
July 14th, 2010
11:48 pm
Truth,
It’s not just Sund. Ownership has to be willing to invest the money to become a championship caliber team as well.
Bishop
July 14th, 2010
11:50 pm
PLEASE SELL THE TEAM!
Doug
July 14th, 2010
11:53 pm
Out in Vegas as well…as one of Teague’s biggest supporters I can say it was extremely disappointing to watch him today. Extremely careless with ball…easily could have had another 4-5 TO’s. Seemed disinterested in guarding as he was basically dominated by undrafted Curtis Jerrels. He either had a long night out in Vegas or has been terribly overrated by many…myself included. Never even looked to shoot a jump shot except once late…just really a bad effort. Obviously don’t want to make too much of one game but if he cannott do MUCH better than this the Hawks will have to make a move
drmaryb
July 14th, 2010
11:55 pm
Well, looks like our FA signing period is over and done with. Guess I’ll go play some golf and get rerady for the Falcons Game Day Experience. Arthur pays 58 people to play for him and they eat
Steaks and Lobsters at their mini-camps.
Aye … His grocery bill costs more than the Hawks entire roster.
Good-Night and Good Luck! Looks like it’s gonna’ be another white christmas!
bigdave
July 14th, 2010
11:56 pm
Truth..
this problem lies a bit deeper than Sund and Horford..
Brian Cashman could be our GM but if the checks aint being signed it’s a lost cause..
bigdave
July 14th, 2010
11:59 pm
Mary B..
i know you need a hot date… lol wink..
Rev in Tampa
July 15th, 2010
12:00 am
This is just awful news from MC. It is baffling. Truth-Serum, it looks like I will need that bullet to bite on before Friday.
bigdave
July 15th, 2010
12:04 am
Cousins might be the most polished big that has come out in a while..
dudes post game footwork is serious.. moves on top of moves.. a threat to finish over either shoulder which opens up even more moves.. face up jumper.. he’s pure filth.. kings becoming an favorite with their young core of talent..
as we speak he puts him up with Al’s favorite and only move, going middle to hook, first time he used it all night by the way..
Ramon
July 15th, 2010
12:04 am
At this point, Felton would be a better candidate for the Mid Level exception than Shaq, based on the NEEDS for the team. I wish the Cavs would take Bibby and Zaza for Shaq. I’m sure they would just buy Bibby out of his contract. As much as I would like to see Shaq coming off of the bench. I’d rather have Brewer and Kwame, or Felton and Kwame over just having Shaq.
HawkKingBibby
July 15th, 2010
12:05 am
M.C. why must you always bring us bad news?
bigdave
July 15th, 2010
12:06 am
dammit.. i love his attitude.. he’s gonna be a GREAT one..
bigdave
July 15th, 2010
12:10 am
for those who are up and have direct TV tune in to NBATV Stinger is about to be on.. it appears this Shaq story has made it national.. lol.. they need to phone MC.. and update material..
bigdave
July 15th, 2010
12:12 am
wait a minute.. does this mean The Stinger has left Sports South.. ?
Fundamentals
July 15th, 2010
12:14 am
I can now sleep well knowing we’re not giving up pieces for a used up SHAQ! THANK GOD!
bigdave
July 15th, 2010
12:17 am
lol.. ball out Gani!
cp
July 15th, 2010
12:21 am
Well I said a few days ago get to know these cats on the summer league team because I wont be shocked if a few of them make the team. Now it looks like that prediction is about right…..As far as Teague, terrible first half but played better in the second. I’m not really worried about him seeing how the summer league’s purpose is for guys to work on their skills. He has the work ethic he just needs to get his confidence back to where it once was. He will be fine. I’m not going to panic like some on here who think the sky is falling with every little situation. Hell we won 53 games with Bibby playing no defense and shooting well under 40% at one point for months. … I like the Gilder kid and seeing how we aren’t going to sign anybody I’m sure he can make the team. ……….Also nice to see Othello playing well for the Denver team. I always thought he had talent but we wouldn’t even send him to the NBDL to develop him…. Hope he sticks with the Nuggets.
Melvin
July 15th, 2010
12:21 am
From Peachtree hoops twitter. Talking about Shaq, Marvin and Hawks Free Agency…
http://sbnation.com/e/1334103
Section 303
July 15th, 2010
12:22 am
I really do not like the Atlanta Spirit Group. F them for not spending the money to make this team better. I didn’t want Shaq anyways, so I’m not mad he won’t be coming. If winning was a priority with those d-bags, they would get a two of the three bigs that I want: Miller, Brown, Thomas. But, it isn’t. So, re-sign West and RandMo and we’ll have another 2nd round ass kicking to look forward to.
Sawyer
July 15th, 2010
12:25 am
Lets recap the summer so far
1) Signed JJ for over 120 million
2) S &T Chills for a 2nd round pick in 2012 and 3 million TPE
3) Refuse to use the only thing teams over the cap can use to get better.
The ASG: Best owners in the league BY FAR!
Melvin
July 15th, 2010
12:27 am
MC,
Do the Hawks consider Bibby, ZaZa and Mo as part of the core?
STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)
July 15th, 2010
12:28 am
Did u say that Randmo came back with a strong effort? He was horrendous.
bigdave
July 15th, 2010
12:34 am
Truth..
it was NBATV.. nothing special.. just analyzing what both pieces would mean to their new franchises then they went into the Hawks v Spurs highlight segment..
♥Mz. Hawkdafied♥
July 15th, 2010
12:35 am
Truth Serum what is the criteria for Hollinger’s rankings?
Ramon
July 15th, 2010
12:35 am
Melvin, ASG consider Mario West, Randmo, and Collins as part of the core probably, lol.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 15th, 2010
12:50 am
So the Hawks sat on their azz, watched quality players like Raja Bell get snapped up for next to nothing by teams with intelligent management, and now they are going to turn around and sell last year’s second-round sweep team right back to us and pretend like the sh-t won’t stink this time.
Lack of creativity, lack of intelligence, and lack of motivation to get better. That’s what defines the DASG and Rick Sund.
And supposedly WE are supposed to be a “championship fan base”. It’s all our fault apparently. LMFAO…
TruthSeeker
July 15th, 2010
12:54 am
Very discouraging offseason. How can you get so utterly humiliated by Orlando and do nothing to improve yourself?
Unless Larry Drew is the next Phil Jackson, the Hawks have no prayer of getting past the second round. Not with the moves the Heat and Bulls have made. At best we’re the fourth best team in the East, and realistically more like fifth or sixth.
At least try SOMETHING, Sund.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 15th, 2010
12:55 am
They have a $10 million expiring contract in Jamal Crawford, a $3 million trade exception from the Childress trade, Mo Evans’ $2.5 million expiring contract, and a promising rookie who basically duplicates Jamal’s role. Any creative GM can turn that $13 million in trade chips into a big man who can battle Dwight Howard, another scorer off the bench to pick up Jamal’s slack, a legit veteran point guard who can provide insurance for Teague, and a perimeter defender to play SF or to play SG and move Joe to SF. There are several ways this team can improve without adding a significant amount of payroll. Many of us, including myself, have proposed several ways they can do this throughout the last two months.
But they will sit on their azzes and then complain when 1500 fewer people come to Hawks games than games of teams that have intelligent management.
Welcome back to the ATL Joe Smith. And Randolph Morris. And Jason Collins.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 15th, 2010
12:56 am
Maybe the DASG and Rick Sund are not aware, but two of the four best teams in the league are in the Hawks’ division. So yeah, fantastic idea to bring back last year’s team and see what happens. Wasn’t it Einstein who said something about trying the same thing and expecting a different result?
Go Braves. F-ck these losers.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 15th, 2010
12:58 am
Of course, all the mouth-breathing Woody supporters will be on here in nine months when the Hawks are on pace for fewer wins than last year and brag about how right they were that Woody wasn’t the problem. Nah, Woody wasn’t the ONLY problem; he was just the BIGGEST problem. Those of us who wanted him gone also wanted the Hawks to improve their other problems. Apparently the DASG was so busy high-fiving each other after firing Woody that they forgot that the rest of the offseason exists.
MsDee
July 15th, 2010
12:58 am
Najeh,
Is that really you??
Michael Cunningham
July 15th, 2010
12:59 am
@HawkKing: “M.C. why must you always bring us bad news?”
sorry dude.
MsDee
July 15th, 2010
12:59 am
Naw..say it isn’t so!
♥Mz. Hawkdafied♥
July 15th, 2010
1:00 am
Now is Teague gonna be let loose or what? I thought Teague was gonna have the opportunity to play through his mistakes in summer league. He needs to see what works best for him in running the point. Not what works for everybody else. Teague can run the point, he just has to find his niche and what better time to start then right now in summer league.
Rev in Tampa
July 15th, 2010
1:00 am
Najeh, still not seeing Joe at SF
Najeh Davenpoop
July 15th, 2010
1:02 am
“2nd of all, as far as Im concern, this IS Teague’s rookie season all over again cause he played little to no min all season.”
Sadly, this is the truth.
TruthSeeker
July 15th, 2010
1:03 am
Couldn’t agree more, Najeh. Sund is planning to retire in the next couple of years and he looks like he’s already mailed it in at this point.
I haven’t agree with all the moves Frank Wren has made with the Braves, but he’s been highly proactive and it’s paying off. Sund is the least active GM I’ve ever seen. I’ve never seen someone so happy to maintain the status quo, which is really inexplicable considering that the Hawks are not far away from being elite. While they’re clearly not on the level of the Lakers or Magic, a couple of shrewd moves could get them there. But Sund doesn’t do a damn thing.
Michael Cunningham
July 15th, 2010
1:04 am
@ Melvin: “Do the Hawks consider Bibby, ZaZa and Mo as part of the core?”
i would say no.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 15th, 2010
1:05 am
“Can somebody please explain to me why SUND STILL HAS A JOB?”
I wondered that when the Hawks hired him. Somehow, in every sports league, mediocre retreads like Sund continue to find a way to get hired by mediocre teams, while innovative and creative teams find young guys like Sam Presti who can take them to the next level.
Look who the Nets just hired as GM. LMAO
Michael Cunningham
July 15th, 2010
1:07 am
@Truth: “Mike C dont you sleep dude?”
vaca starts Friday. ain’t gonna lie and say i’m not looking forward to it.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 15th, 2010
1:07 am
“I haven’t agree with all the moves Frank Wren has made with the Braves, but he’s been highly proactive and it’s paying off. Sund is the least active GM I’ve ever seen. I’ve never seen someone so happy to maintain the status quo”
I wasn’t a big Frank Wren fan when he first replaced Schuerholz, and moves like giving big money to Lowe and Kawakami and swapping Vazquez for Melky Cabrera weren’t exactly making me feel better about him, but like you say, at least he tried SOMETHING. Some of it worked, some of it didn’t, and who knows how this Escobar trade will turn out, but he has taken calculated risks and built a contender.
I think the general Hawks fan base would be a lot happier if Sund tried and failed than if he sits on his azz and does nothing.
♥Mz. Hawkdafied♥
July 15th, 2010
1:08 am
So MC, when did Bibby become not a part of the core? For clarity’s sake, who is the core again?
Najeh Davenpoop
July 15th, 2010
1:08 am
“1) Signed JJ for over 120 million
2) S &T Chills for a 2nd round pick in 2012 and 3 million TPE
3) Refuse to use the only thing teams over the cap can use to get better.”
Don’t forget trading the #31 pick for a couple of months worth of electric bills.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 15th, 2010
1:11 am
And from a fiscal standpoint, how exactly do the Hawks lose if they bring in Shaq and it doesn’t work out? Worst case scenario, his negative impact in the locker room outweighs his positive impact on the court, he boosts ticket sales anyway, and the Hawks trade him to some front runner team for whatever they can get. What’s so bad about that? The DASG probably comes out on top anyway with Shaq bringing in extra fans.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 15th, 2010
1:12 am
If they are at $65 million now, and using the full mid-level pushes them $0.6 million into luxury tax territory, they are basically saying $5.8 million is acceptable for a mid level guy but $7 million is not. What are they going to do with that extra $1.2 million? Isn’t that the whole point of trading the #31 pick?
♥Mz. Hawkdafied♥
July 15th, 2010
1:14 am
Truth Serum, there’s is a lot of hate and downright ugliness on this blog. So the little heart thingies are my way of dropping some love on here.
Wanna drop a little love too, just hit the alt key and the number 3 key over on your right at the same time. Oh yeah thanks for the link and info on the rankings.
Rev in Tampa
July 15th, 2010
1:14 am
Najeh, your reasoning is sound.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 15th, 2010
1:15 am
“Najeh, still not seeing Joe at SF”
Well, he doesn’t have the quickness to go one-on-one against opposing shooting guards and get to the hoop; we’ve already seen this. If you put another shooter on the floor at SG and let him go up against SFs, presumably he won’t be at as big of a disadvantage when it comes to quickness, and it will help him get to the hoop and to the free throw line easier. Spreading the floor will also allow Teague to do what he does best, which is drive to the hoop and get to the line.
Of course, if Marvin hits the gym and becomes the 38%+ 3-point shooter he should have been last year, this is all a moot point. Let’s see if he cares enough about improving to do this.
Michael Cunningham
July 15th, 2010
1:16 am
@ Mz. Hawk: “So MC, when did Bibby become not a part of the core? For clarity’s sake, who is the core again?”
ha . . . about the time the Hawks re-signed him and then saw him fall off? sometimes it seems like the “core” depends on who you talk to and when. the obvious guys are JJ, Smoove, Al, JC. Marv is probably in there but a notch below those guys. i’d say that about covers it.
hawks2010-2011
July 15th, 2010
1:16 am
how about eddy curry?
Najeh Davenpoop
July 15th, 2010
1:18 am
“At this point, Felton would be a better candidate for the Mid Level exception than Shaq”
Felton signed with the Knicks about a week ago.
drmaryb
July 15th, 2010
1:20 am
Gilder-Ator!
I like it … I like it! This CAT is smooth! Gilder looks like a poor man’s Tayshaun Prince – Sign him up!
Hendrix is an active banger – Sign him up!
Ishmael Smith on Houston’s squad – looks like a steal at the PG. Great handles and super quick with great shooting – Sign him up!
Kidnap Collins and get him in shape – more importantly – USE HIM!
Bargain Basement Shopping! We’ve been Window Shopping in the FA Store – Cauz’ we ain’t got no money – just Food-Stamps and Government Cheese!
Rev in Tampa
July 15th, 2010
1:23 am
“Najeh, still not seeing Joe at SF”
But JJ’s game does not seem to be focused on driving hard in the paint. He is more finesse and jumpshots. But he can easily post up smaller SGs. And on defense his height helps him defend the SG’s from the outside. Plus we will lose rebounding with JJ at SF.
♥Mz. Hawkdafied♥
July 15th, 2010
1:25 am
Okay, thanks much for clearing that up for me MC.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 15th, 2010
1:25 am
The Hawks’ prospects to improve on last season depend on three things: 1. Teague being an improvement on Bibby (which I still think will be the case despite his mediocre start to summer league), 2. Drew being an improvement on Woody (all signs are positive so far but let’s see what happens when the season starts), and 3. Marvin, Josh, and Al all improving on last season (likely for Al, possible for Josh, doubtful for Marvin).
And the thing is, even if ALL THREE of these things happen, they don’t have the personnel to guard Dwight Howard for a 7 game series — or, for that matter, the personnel to guard LeBron and D-Wade for a 7 game series.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 15th, 2010
1:28 am
“he can easily post up smaller SGs”
I would like to see him actually do this. Maybe in Drew’s offense he will get that chance.
“Plus we will lose rebounding with JJ at SF.”
Not if they bring in Shaq, or any other good rebounding true center. Marvin gets a couple more boards than Joe per game, but it’s not like he gets a ton of boards in traffic.
“And on defense his height helps him defend the SG’s from the outside.”
This is true, but any suggestion of moving Joe to SF by me is predicated on the Hawks signing a SG who can shoot 3’s and stretch the defense. Raja Bell would have been ideal in this spot, but he signed a (very affordable) deal with the Jazz already. I am not in favor of moving Joe to SF and starting Jamal, like many people have suggested.
Rev in Tampa
July 15th, 2010
1:35 am
Najeh, thanks for you thougths.
Grandad
July 15th, 2010
1:55 am
Gilder can’t guard anybody.
Because he’s long & lean he looks the part.
He let’s his man go by so he can attemt to block his shot.
He scored 15 but he traded baskets.
His man goes by him just like Gladyr.
Gilder gets in a good stance & that’s about all there is;
until,
he tries to block his shot from behind.
6 fouls tonite. Only 2 def boards.
* -4 [+/-]
* Hendrix +8 [+/-]
I will say…..no-one, absolutely no-one rebounded.[especially / def boards]
One more item about Gilder good FT shooter / had trouble finishing.
11 of his 15 pts. came @ the line.
True Atlanta Fan
July 15th, 2010
1:55 am
Honestly at this point I think the hawks (if they really wanted to) could still pull off a big move but by way of sign and trade. Anthony Tolliver seems to be interested in the hawks and if we are willing to trade Marvin, Bibby maybe a first round pick I say ASG stop sleeping and make a move for Monta Ellis as well. Its a long shot but it is something that will address both of our needs as well as get Hawks fans excited for the next season. But again the question depends on if they REALLY want to.
I don’t know about you guys but I have had ASG call me a total of 5 times this summer trying to sell me season tickets at like 8 am. I think they are a little worried about ticket sales to say the least.
drmaryb
July 15th, 2010
2:02 am
YMCA – Is now called the “Y”
BigDave they changed their name to the “Y”.
You know the Young Men Christian Association gotta’ be – “Keepin’ IT Real” now! LOL!
Ms.Dee?
I feel you baby-gurl! We gotta show these fellas how to shop at the Piggly Wiggly – How To: fill up two carts with meat for about 50 Bucks!
Gurl, we so broke – we gotta put our Cheerios on Lay-A-Way!
We gotta teach the ASG how to feed 5 kids cereal with only one bowl of milk:
1st – The 4 older kids eat first, with FORKS and pass the bowl of milk down the table to the baby – Who, gets to use a SPOON, so he can get every drop!
The ASG trying to run two teams and they can’t even run one!
MsDee
July 15th, 2010
2:02 am
They betta get Shaq than, ‘True Atlanta Fan’, if thats the case..they need to make up that mula they gave JJ!!
SteveW
July 15th, 2010
2:07 am
So we have a little over 5m to pay 3 guys? ASG needs to spend the 3m they promised on draft day. We’re probably looking at Kurt Thomas, Anthony Tolliver or Kwame and Aminu. Is this any better than Joe Smith, Jason Collins, and Rand Mo?
SteveW
July 15th, 2010
2:12 am
We were the only playoff team of 16 that was not in luxury tax territory last year, is that correct? Lowest salaried team amongst all playoff teams – come on ASG, get us a couple more big bodies,and another PG while your at it. Shaq, Matt Barnes, and maybe Rafer Alston sound good to me.
Grandad
July 15th, 2010
2:19 am
@ The ASG:
If this is it.
Sold # 31.
Aquired TPE for Childress. [for what reason]
Pape Sy & Gladyr / back to Europe.
Then – How – Why – Do you even want to own a team?
You would be well served if the arena was empty every game next yr.
Every game should look like Thomas & Mack Center did tonite.
*(roughly 50 people)
You guys don’t deserve to own a team.
Dan Gilbert & Mark Cuban may be Jack-asses but they are:
(1) passionate Jack-asses
(2) Jack-asses that want to win
(3) Jack-asses that care about their fans.
—–>ASG ~~~ You don’t even care enough to be a Jack-ass<—–
Grandad
July 15th, 2010
2:22 am
*Jack-asses* as opposed to “a” Jack-ass, [as in one]
MaxxHawk
July 15th, 2010
2:25 am
It’s a shame that we have an ownership group in gereral, but especially one who is not commited to winning, but rather commited to profits and cutting costs. I can’t believe we haven’t gone after any Center. If we don’t get Shaq, it’s hard for me, the most devoted of lifelong hawks fans, to have much optimism. Especially when every other team in the East is signing Big men left and right. This is really mind-boggling, both our frontcourt starters have openly asked for help downlow to deal with Howard and now Big Z and Bosh. Marvin Williams is such a bust, he is not a good player, he never takes over or makes any significant impact, cant create his own shot, has no hops, no Basketball IQ, and when we have the opportunity to move him for a piece we desperately need we wont because we for some reason think he is going to come around one day. Every year is supposed to be the year he starts making an impact and dominating, but it never happens.In fact, he even took steps back last year. He has got to go, and if we don’t get Shaq, the only answer left to our problems down low, then why even bother wq\athcing, we will certainly get drubbed and embarassed by Orlando and Miami. And we pay a above average player Michael Jordan money. Just sad, man. And by the way, Teague is playing like he doesn’t care and is gettig shown up in summer league by scrubs. He better play like he wants it, Jordan C. plays like he wants it, Teague doesn’t seem too interested in summer league, and he is playing half-assed and it is embarassing. He better dominate and play hard next game, or what’s the point? We might as well just have practice at the facility instead of summer league
cp
July 15th, 2010
2:34 am
I see the blog has eaten both my post. Im giving up this morning just like this front office has.
MaxxHawk
July 15th, 2010
2:40 am
I mean we can’t get a deal done with Portland for Camby or Pryzbilla or somebody? They have a bunch of Centers on their roster and are looking to trade everyone except Oden and Roy. Sund wants to wait until he can get Kwame Brown at a discounted price. I mean if we bring the same team back we wilL finish 6th in the East, this is a JOKE! TRADE MARVIN FOR SHAQ NOW!!
N-Trigue
July 15th, 2010
2:43 am
Mc
Is it any chance that we go after Scola from Houston?
ClassicHawks
July 15th, 2010
2:54 am
All Im Going to Say Is Be Patient With What The Hawks Are Doing. Shaq Has Not SIgned With Anyone Yet, Because He Is Asking For Too Much Money. I Think He Will Sign For The Mid-Level Once He Figures Out That Is What The Market Is For Him. The Only Way He Gets Eight Million Is If He Goes Over To Europe. The Hawks Should NEVER In 100 Years Trade Marvin Williams For A Old Ass Piece Like Shaq!! Now The Trade Wren Made Today Made Hella Sense! You Give Up Great Potential Talent For Equal Talent, or In My Book AG Is Better Talent Than Escobar Right Now, To Win It All. If We Traded Marvin For Shaq Head Up, We Would Still Not Be A Championship Caliber Team. If We Give Shaq The Mid-Level and If We Trade Marvin and Someone Else and Get a Star Caliber Player In His Prime Than We Are In The Championship Caliber Realm. Let This Thing Play Completely Out Before You Guys Go Crazy!
Worst Case Scenario Is That We Go Into The Season With The Same Team and They Play The Same Way. We Have Trades During The Season, and Trust Me We Have Enough Pieces On This Team That Can Be Traded For a Chris Paul or a Carmelo Anthony. So Please Be Calm and Just Wait To See What Sund is Gonna Do Before Completely Jumping The GUN! We Still Have A 50 Win Ball Club and our core is Still Super Young. Understand That!
Dan's Dickau
July 15th, 2010
3:16 am
Trading Marvin for Shaq would have been very stupid.
I’m worried about point guard. We have an All-Star center, but our point guards stink.
Can ya’ll please stop with the Bibby/Pachulia/Evans for (fill-in-the-blank). Nobody wants those clowns.
Grandad
July 15th, 2010
3:30 am
List of cheap help for the Jack-AS[S]G -OR- Ideas for frugality.
*Trade – Zaza to NJ for Brian Zoubek, save $3.5 mil [use TPE]
*Trade – all our 2nd round draft picks to Ind. for Josh McRoberts.
*Sign Steve Novak – I don’t reckon anybody signed him yet.
*Sign Cartier Martin – cool name.
*Sign Oleksiy Pecherov – his name makes me laugh.
*Pick up Josh Powell – isn’t he a local fellow? [U-FA / I think]
*Coax Kevin Ollie out of retirement (same age as Shaq.
*And lastly – trade next years #1 draft pick for **Greg Stiemsma.
** Never heard of him. Can’t say his name. 6-11, 260
drmaryb
July 15th, 2010
3:33 am
ASG!
You Lie!
(Like that heckler said at Obama’s State of The Union Address)
You got to – “Pay – to – Play!”
(Like Blagoiavich – Governer of Chicago)
Ms. Dee
They got possibly – The STEAL of The Draft! Craw-Daddy &
(almost lost him by moving down three spots to save a few nickels)
They CHEAP – like Polyester!
Grandad
July 15th, 2010
3:34 am
***Greg Stiemsma is on the T-Wolves roster***
Grandad
July 15th, 2010
3:37 am
Mary Ellen, what are you doin’ up at this hour.
I’m gonna have to spank you & send you to bed w/o your supper.
drmaryb
July 15th, 2010
3:54 am
Shake – Shake – Shake It!
Doing the dance – Do the Dance, Aye … ASG. …. Try This:
Take your little Piggy – Bank, and ……
Shake it like a salt shaker.
Shake it like a polaroid picture.
See what falls outa’ there and go buy yourself something nice.
Now, I ain’t saying Y’all a Gold-Digger, Cauz’ Y’all got needs. But, it’s time to go to work, so, roll up yo sleeves!
All Jokes aside – when I was in Graduate School, I remember being SO broke – I pulled up to the
gas pump on fumes and Holy Spirit. (no pun intended my lord)
I got the flash-light and crawled under the car seat looking for some loose change to put
a dollar’s worth of gas in the tank to drive 100 yards to get home!
Now, that’s Broke & I hoped and prayed – Ain’t Nobody Broke Like Me!
ASG? Check your car seats – Check the seat cracks! Check your batteries in that flash-light!
It’s always darkest, right before you pay the light bill! Pay your Bill!
northcyde
July 15th, 2010
4:01 am
A couple of things before I go to bed:
“I think I am just going to start passing the ball up to the wings instead of bringing it up. It takes too long into the shot clock for to get the offense going . That’s how it’s going to be when I play with Joe and those guys, anyway.”
Teague . . . what . . in . . the . . HELL?
You’re the damn PG. You HAVE to bring the ball up. You’re more than likely going to be the best ball handler on the court. You can’t be passing the ball to JJ for him to get it across the line. If you’re going to run the team, YOU are going to have to do it.
That is a “give up” mentality, and a HUGE RED FLAG. Correct that ish with the quickness Conner and Drew.
I should know, because I had that same exact thought process one time in practice in the 10th grade, going up against varsity. The starting varsity PG ripped me 2 consecutive times trying to get the ball up the court. The 3rd time, I passed that ball like a hot potato. Didn’t even take a dribble.
My JV coach lit into my azz. Told me to bring the ball up myself, if I still wanted to be the starting JV PG. That was the last time the varsity PG ever ripped me in a Varsity vs JV scrimmage that year.
Wow . . . I can’t believe he said that.
Notso Fast
July 15th, 2010
4:03 am
When your team does not spend money or does not have the money to spend, you usually end up with not the best GM, not the best Coach, and not the best players. This normally leads to you team not being the best. The Hawks need more help but the names being kicked around will not answer the needs.
drmaryb
July 15th, 2010
4:03 am
Grand-Daddy
I need a good ole’ skool – spankin’. So irritated with ASG messing with my Hawks, till I can’t sleep!
I’m loaded the Sony DVD player – watching The Negotiator starring Samuel Jackson (Morehouse Alum)
He He … ;-0.
Mmmmmmwah!
northcyde
July 15th, 2010
4:06 am
Blog monster is KILLING my 2nd post about the ASG.
northcyde
July 15th, 2010
4:06 am
As for the ASG . . . they also have a “give up” mentality, if that’s going to be their approach going into this season. In an offseason in which free agent signings were flying off the shelves. And in a year in what seems like the entire Eastern Conference is upgrading, this ish is not going to go over well at all with the fans. They have to know this. Right?
Surely getting a guy like Shaq would put extra money into their pockets, if they’re worrying about paying him the MLE, and going over the tax to fill out the roster. If they did that, you’re talking about what? 2 million over the tax? Use that money you sold the #31 pick for, to pay the tax. Sounds simple enough to me.
If they can’t get Shaq for the MLE, then just kill the rumor altogether. And if that’s the case, we’re looking at 2 minimum contract players being added to the roster ( some of you may get your Siler wish . . . he had a real good game today . . 15 pts – 7 boards . . if Miami doesn’t sign him over Pittman ). The 3rd guy will be a vet that is paid maybe 2 million. As long as it’s not Joe Smith or Jason Collins, do not bring any of those two back here.
drmaryb
July 15th, 2010
4:12 am
NorthCyde
That’s why Mr. Woodson glued his azz to that bench! Now, who’s looking crazy!
Bibby is our best option in the half-court set – on this team.
How does the ASG sleep at night? Like this – ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!
They sleeping good and we up all night trying to fix their team on the CHEAP!
New Coach – Same Problems! No PG and NO bona-fide Center for what? 10 years now?
Every player on this team is outa position – Every single damned one!
That is – Rich!
northcyde
July 15th, 2010
4:13 am
@ Truth-Serum . . . . that stat about Horford and the 60% iFG he gives up, is on 82games.com
Click on the Hawks, then on Horford’s name, and click on “By Position”. You’ll see Horford’s stats and the stats of the opposing center he goes up against. Matter of fact, just click here to see it.
Like I said. . . the 60% iFG he gives up is pretty high. But the 16.5 Defensive PER he has at center, makes him one of the better overall defending centers in the NBA. So there’s 2 sides to his defense.
drmaryb
July 15th, 2010
4:31 am
Missing Parts!
Classic Hawks – Cosign That, Sir!
John Shurholtz. Said it best, some 10 years ago:
“A successful stock broker – NEVER falls in love with his stocks.”
Everything is trade-able! WIN NOW mentality WINS NOW! You may NEVER see the play-offs again!
Especially, if you’re the Hawks! Forget about potential – unless, you’re in the business to draw paychecks!
We fans are trying to draw Championships and collect banners for the rafters!
Look at Jerry Buss over there! They Just WON it all & the 1st thing he did was start re-tooling!
Even Fisher was trade-able!
A famous HOF College Coach said it best:
“If it ain’t broke? Then break it – So you can FIX it!”
-arthur unknown”
I used that philosophy to become a Doctor. Even when you are WINNING? You can always WIN better!
MsDee
July 15th, 2010
5:11 am
northcyde,
Have a little faith in Teague..my God, its SUMMER LEAGUE..his 1st to be EXACT!!!!! Its not like he is OJ Mayo who had 7 or 8 TO’s the other night. Give the PG a break!!!
MsDee
July 15th, 2010
5:13 am
northcyde,
Oh and by-the-way, just like your example you told when u were in school, this could be Teague’s experience he could tell some rookie when he is in his 5th year in the pro’s. Allow him to make his mistakes RIGHT HERE IN THE SUMMER LEAGUE!!
MsDee
July 15th, 2010
5:18 am
And just like I said earlier in this blog, TEAGUE HAS YET TO PLAY OR PRACTICE WITH THE STARTERS!! He has been playing with the bench and now the scubbs since he has been in the league. He might just look like our lil Chris Paul once he starts working out with the REAL DEALS of our team!!
Steve
July 15th, 2010
5:56 am
Well thanks for lying to us ASG to get us off your asses about the Joe signing that nobody wanted.
Marcus
July 15th, 2010
6:31 am
The one positive I glean from the blog is that Teague ran this offense in practice last year. That said, he shouldn’t be shaken by D-leaguers, and most certainly shouldn’t be “scurred” to bring the ball up as the potential starting PG. He also has to learn to make the other players play the offense as PG. If Teague allows these cats (who are barely fringe NBA players) abandon the calls when he runs the point …. what are JJ, Smoove, Horford, and Marvin gonna do?
Big Ray
July 15th, 2010
6:55 am
It’s easy to answer why Sund has a job. Because he does precisely what the ASG wants him to do. He’s a company man. It’s really that simple, and though the job of GM is one of responsibility, a GM can only have as much responsibility as his owners allow him. The trail doesn’t end with Sund, it ends with the ASG. They hired him, and they dictate to him what they want done.
Their fingerprints are all over this.
So, we will field the same team we did last year. Brilliant. What a bunch of ass bags…
OK
July 15th, 2010
7:00 am
“That’s expected. We put him at point guard and they got into him.”
-Nonsense. The kid looked good at the point. Why must they hate? Other than that ereant crass court pass, I thinke we’ve got our backup point.
“Gilder looked pretty good on the wing. He’s got a slight build but he’s long, quick and smooth.”
-The Kid looks better than Mo and Marvin RIGHT NOW. We will sign him. He also can handle the ball, draw fouls, hit open jumpshots, and was money from the FT line. Love his defense and footwork too. I think we found a gem. Augistine and Hendrix were the only Bigs worth mentioning.
“I think I am just going to start passing the ball up to the wings instead of bringing it up. It takes too long into the shot clock for to get the offense going . That’s how it’s going to be when I play with Joe and those guys, anyway.”
PLEASE NO! Quit being lazy and learn how to bring the ball up vs. pressure Teague! Nash does it, Billups does ut YOU CAN DO IT! We don’t need another Mike Bibby who can’t handle token pressure. I understand doing it vs. the press but the majority of the time, THATS YOUR JOB. JJ hogging the ball was the problem last season. WHY SHOULD HE HAVE TO BRING IT UP AND SCORE AS WELL? CAN THE BROTHA GET A BREAK?
Big Ray
July 15th, 2010
7:01 am
Northcyde ,
Two things:
1. I discussed this on my fan blog with a couple of people: Jordan Crawford’s game looks a bit more smooth than Teague’s right now. He’s not a natural point, but he’s a possible sleeper.
You’re right, what Teague had to say is definitely a red flag issue. We’ll see how the rest of SL goes and what happens in training camp and what not. Either he takes things in stride, or he will get himself benched, one or the other. The turnovers actually don’t bother me. Turnovers are often a product of who you’re playing with (scrubs) and what the system is (a bunch of guys who haven’t played together, trying to execute a sophisticated offense after three days of practice), along with individual mistakes.
2. Exactly, the ASG simply “gives up.” This is the organization you constantly lambast fans for not blindly supporting. I’m just sayin’….
Big Ray
July 15th, 2010
7:03 am
OK
I agree. Crawford has skills, and I want to see how he does once he gets into the mix with the veteran players. Meanwhile, Teague better get it together. Of course, we’ll get to see how he does with the vets as well, but he can’t come up against them (or with them) with this attitude, and with this play. Ain’t gonna cut it.
OK
July 15th, 2010
7:05 am
Sign Gilder & Hendrix, Use the Trade Exception to trade for Ryan Hollins. If you still need another Big, sigen James Augistine, I like his Hustle. smh, I don’t know why I even bother. Stupid ASG, they don’t care.
Stotts Era
July 15th, 2010
7:07 am
RandMo with a strong effort? 3 fouls and 4 TOs, only 2 boards. Also a hawks worst -14
OK
July 15th, 2010
7:08 am
Ray, Amen! He didn’t have this attitude last year around this time. Man, Mike woodson works wonders doesn’t he? It’s amazing how he just saps players’ confidence like that.
tls
July 15th, 2010
7:17 am
Wait a minute, I thought payroll was at 65 mil before we traded Chills for nothing? And if we don’t use the trade exception, it was in fact NOTHING. If in fact they aren’t going to spend more than 5 mil more, does that mean there could be a trade? It would not break my heart to see MArvin traded but not for Shaq- must be someone younger with more upside. Jamal could go to but that would require a hafty return since he is so valuable. Any thoughts, MC?
OK
July 15th, 2010
7:24 am
Payroll should be at about 60mill I beleive.
floze
July 15th, 2010
7:25 am
This blog is amazing – one game that JT craps and the ASG don’t know what they are doing. I think I watched every minute he played last season and know for a fact there is a bonified NBA player in there. Did anyone watch the last game of the regular season?
I will be looking for the haters to eat their words when JT has a break out game in Las Vegas – after all – one game indicates a career doesn’t it?
JeJe
July 15th, 2010
7:29 am
Why the hell is ASG is intent on getting Kurt Thomas? He played well against us but the dude is 50 years old and 6″9. I’d rather get a 4-time champion who is 7″1 and 50 years old instead.
Also, it IS worth overpaying for Shaq if we can RID OURSELVES OF 15M in money owed to Duck in Yrs 3 and 4.
Well looks like we will sign scrubs, win 54 games next year, lose in the 2nd round and hear about how we have improved so much
FIRE WOODY
OK
July 15th, 2010
7:30 am
floze, We’re talking about his comments after the game.
See my 7:00am post
JeJe
July 15th, 2010
7:33 am
OVERPAY FOR SHAQ, THEN DISH SMOOVE, BIBBY AND 1ST ROUNDERS FOR MELO
nes
July 15th, 2010
7:46 am
Well–as we all know with the ASG, they spent all that money on JJ and what a joke around the league on that contract. The problem with it is this: it racketed up the price for all free agents!, thus the hawks can’t get a center for their price–it is all tied up in JJ, what a big blunder! Wade, James, and Bosh took LESS MONEY to get additional players to bring a championship to Miami and JJ was all about the MONEY–not the Team. He will be a cancer come next year when JSmith due his big contract and hawks can’t pay him and the other players got to be tore up with JJ getting that kind of money. I will say it again, why didn’t the Hawks draft Whiteside at 31 and roll the dice? also, we should have brought in Casey as coach for the sake of change of atmosphere, Drew keeping all assistants is a joke too.
Hawks Fan In New Orleans
July 15th, 2010
7:48 am
ASG do something to show us you are committed to winning bigger! If they value their all-star center’s opinion they would get Shaq in here. The optimist in me says they will but on their own fiscally responsible terms. They need to channel Steinbrenner and get a couple more solid pieces asap.
O'Brien
July 15th, 2010
7:49 am
I didnt like Teague’s comments either. Hopefully Drew will continue to work on him in summer league and training camp. Because as the PG, he should not have that mentality.
As for the ASG, I’m not surprised. I’m just disappointed they fed us all those false promises about filling spots with free agents.
That being said, there is still time for Sund to make a couple moves to save the day. So I won’t give up on the off-season just yet.
jeff
July 15th, 2010
7:52 am
Ok- so we have about 3 million (give or take) to use on 3 players? It sure limits the quality players most of us want. Given the scenarios of salary, cap, availability, and the appearance of not trading any of the 9 or 10 players currently signed the options are now extremely limited. Here is the current available FA making less than $1,000,000.00 per season last year. These are UFA no trade needed
Center
Jason Collins $825,497
Rand Mo $855,189
Theo Ratliff $825,497
Chris Hunter $632,455
Anthony Tolliver $427,317
Brian Skinner $825,497
DJ Mbenga $959,111
Joel Anthony $825,497
Jamaal Magloire $825,497
Primoz Brezec $825,497
Nathan Jawal $736,420
Earl Barron $48,559
Adonle Foyle $825,497
Patrick O’Bryant $855,189
Kyrylo Fesenko $870,000
Fabricio Oberto $1,990,000
James Sing1eon $ 1,030,189
Malik Allen $ 1,300,000
Power Forward
Joe Smith $825,497
Josh Powell $959,111
Shavlik Randolph $309,167
Ike Diogu $825,497
Sean Marks $825,497
Jarron Collins $825,497
Louis Amundson $855,189
Juwan Howard $825,497
Jon Brockman $457,588
Sean May $825,497
Devean George $1,600,000
Matt Barnes $1,600,000
Hawks Fan In New Orleans
July 15th, 2010
7:52 am
I agree nes. Drew should have shaken up the staff to make a strong statment. If the Asg was committed to title building, they say ‘damn the luxury tax’ that’s the consequence of being elite. Penny pinching ain’t getting us help against dwight howard.
mountain_jim
July 15th, 2010
8:00 am
Thanks to MC for the bad reportage, and Najah for putting the Hawks ownership under the spotlight. The exception, the sold pick, now they change their tune and we are set? Sell the team and go away, owners, we see through your bs and this team is not built for beating Orlando and you either don’t or can’t afford to care.
Time for an ajc interview with ownership with the tough questions of why their tune has changed from earlier this offseason to now.
jeff
July 15th, 2010
8:00 am
Shooting Guard
Mario West $451,596
Michael Finley $194,235
Stephen Graham $825,497
Larry Hughes $160,244
Devin Brown $1,159,693
Luther Head $825,497
Jerry Stackhouse $422,640
Aleksander Pavlovic $1,500,000
Ime Udoka $786,650
Keith Bogans $825,497
Antoine Wright $1,800,000
Point Guard
Anthony Carter $825,497
Chucky Atkins $825,497
Will Bynum $825,497
Bobby Brown $736,420
Jamaal Tinsley $738,091
Marcus Williams $825,497
Rafer Alston $475,875
Carlos Arroyo $825,497
Royal Ivey $1,500,000
Kevin Ollie $825,497
Mustafa Shakur $645,830
Travis Diener $208,802
Patrick Mills $457,588
Allen Iverson $645,830
Jason Williams $825,497
Earl Boykins $752,659
Javaris Crittenton $1,477,920
Cedric Jackson $26,917
dap01
July 15th, 2010
8:01 am
Bibby stinks as a PG in the NBA. He is spent. ASG is the worst owners in professional sports. We have been lied to this offseason.
We have accomplished giving JJ money and that is it. We are stuck being average until they decide to blow it up again and start over.
When they start over they will probably make the same bone headed picks and choices that they did during this 7 years of torture!
doc
July 15th, 2010
8:11 am
northcyde/ray
even before miami played its final trump card and won the big three i said the true colors of the asg would become apparent if the queen went south beach as would their true motivation going forward. for all the talk of wanting winners and wanting to make this team better they would fold like a cardboard shipping box. these guys are so predictable. they dont deserve a top ten fan base wanting to spend bottom third in dollars. if you dont spend over tax you dont stay up there long. watch us fall. even small town utah understands this and is aggressive at getting in quality to fill holes.
northcyde, i hope you dont mind if i keep my money in my pocket like the asg do so well and mock me because i am smart enough to see the tean i want to win isnt really committed to it. i can watch nba at home but i am a fan of the hawks so i dont want to sit and watch them have no chance. they have done nothing to get me to fork out 4 to 5 grand, nothing.i imagine there might be more out there feeling the same way.
floze, go back and look at sheldon williams and salim stoudemire stats for season ending games. they too have at least one great game when it didnt count in the dreg days of end of season basketball. unfortunately he didnt show that brilliance during real competitive games when it meant something. what i have seen of him continues to make me think the guy may be out of his league. from what i read he may feel the same way.
Tree Rollins
July 15th, 2010
8:19 am
And I thought McDavid would have been a disaster as an owner…I am sorry McDavid, I was wrong!
doc
July 15th, 2010
8:22 am
mountain_jim, what happened in south beach changed their minds quickly is my guess.
doc
July 15th, 2010
8:28 am
thanks for the shopping list jeff. now i am even more despondent.
oh, clyde will be quick to tell you you left sean williams off you center list.
LKT
July 15th, 2010
8:34 am
How about this: Trade Marvin to Cleveland for Shaq and then use the MLE to pick up Matt Barnes. Barnes is in his prime (30 or 31), plays good perimeter D, knows Orlando’s offensive/defensive scheme, and can probably be had for a two year deal with an option for a 3rd. Allow Shaq to start games but give Al the bulk of the minutes (much like the Bibby/Crawford situation last year).
LKT
July 15th, 2010
8:39 am
How about this: Trade Marvin to Cleveland for Shaq and then use the MLE or Childress TE to pick up Matt Barnes. Barnes is in his prime (30 or 31), plays good perimeter D, knows Orlando’s offensive/defensive scheme, and can probably be had for a two year deal with an option for a 3rd. Allow Shaq to start games but give Al the bulk of the minutes (much like the Bibby/Crawford situation last year).
jeff
July 15th, 2010
8:43 am
Thanks- I would have put Williams on there if he were a UFA. In fact he isn’t even a FA. A trade would have to be involved.
Balderdash
July 15th, 2010
8:49 am
Well, there’s a ton of 7-foot stiffs who can’t score four points a game, so sign one of them up. Zaza needs to play like he did two seasons ago. He can do that … can’t he?
cdog
July 15th, 2010
8:57 am
truth serum, its a shame only you and i can see the hawks number 1 problem is rick sund.talking about an incompetent person, thats sund.he will eventually kill the hawks team before its over.its a shame at one point were just a big man away from becoming a championship team then they hired a terrible GM in rick sund.check his track record, the hawks were a center away from becoming a possible finals team.to this day, sund has not went out and found that piece.its been there all the while but his concern with money caused him not to get that needed piece.as of right now, the hawks are in the same boat with sund still the GM.does it take a rocket scientist to see sund need to go? no.he must be putting hypnotic spells on everyone.they have blamed mike woodson, joe johnson, josh smith but only you and i can see the real problem is sund.oh well, when the team is made into the la clippers, sacremento kings and the washington wizards, then everyone eyes will be opened.yes ASG is the owners, but sund is making the total personel decisions.its amazing how everyone saw mike woodson’s fault but sund’s fault are right there staring them in the face and no one can see them
Samuel
July 15th, 2010
8:59 am
Darn,
I missed the game last night. ken, can I get your analysis please?
The Hawks have consistently said they like their core, and that includes Marvin. And we’re trying to move to “THE NEXT LEVEL”. Please. Maybe they meant the next level downwards.
– In defense of Teague and the Hawks, they haven’t had much time to build any kind of cohesion. Conner said L.D.’s offense “might be too sophisticated for this group” because they keep abandoning the calls and freelancing. Welcome to the NBA. How long you think that “SOPHISTICATED OFFENSE” will last when our “MAX PLAYA” get back in town?
I actually gave us a year or two to get to that “NEXT LEVEL”. Now it appears we may be headed for the LOTTO sooner than expected. “Marvin Williams is our core”. get me outta here.
newkid
July 15th, 2010
8:59 am
Insightful as always doc. The Boston model just went on steriods with Riley’s assemblage in Miami, and the ASG and Sund would be fools to not realize that the chance to ‘win now’ ended this past May.
But there’s a slight chance, and only slight, that some within the front office get it. What am I saying? Am I nuts? Look, if there’s going to be a chance to compete in the East over the next 6-8 years, there’s gotta be a plan that’s far better than that so far hatched by Knight/Sund and company. If our side is really going to compete, it won’t be sufficient to tinker this summer and next. There’s gotta be a plan that gets us to a roster that can really compete with that which Riley is constructing. Once designed, such a plan has to be sold to and bought by the 8-headed monster ASG; and only then can execution begin. Maybe we’re seeing the early phases of a 2-year execution of a real plan. Remember how long it took Miami to execute it’s plan? How about the time it took the Knicks – and others – to prepare for ‘10? With so many moving pieces (e.g., soon-to-come new CBA, uncertainty regarding whether those pieces we wish to attract – to compete with the Heat – will even consider coming on board, how to best create the salary space to afford those pieces, etc) I can imagine many sleepless nights now and over the next couple years for Sund.
If in fact there is this plan development and execution going on in the front office, we should not expect anything dramatic this summer. Instead we should prepare ourselves for continued playoff mediocrity for the next couple years. Gotta go; more to say about this later.
Samuel
July 15th, 2010
9:08 am
http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2010/07/15/gametime_shaq_atl.nba/
cdog
July 15th, 2010
9:11 am
basketball has become an aggressive sport.when you start trying to outsmart people with fancy offenses younlose more than you win.a message to coach drew.defense wins championships, offenses wins popularity.
Joey
July 15th, 2010
9:12 am
Wouldn’t it be nice if Max Joe take a $18M cut in order for Sung to get Shaq? I mean, he would still be getting $101M . . .
Joey
July 15th, 2010
9:15 am
Even with no moves, the Hawks are still the 3rd best team in the East. Yeah, Miami got a lot better, but Cleveland got a lost worse. We could be Knicks fans, you know.
darrell starks
July 15th, 2010
9:19 am
It’s obvious the hawks owner ship is not trying 2 build a championship team they only want 2 look ok during the regular season and not advance further into playoffs, there for all the hawks fanatic fan’s on here our voice of a opinion is just a waste of time.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!
darrell starks
July 15th, 2010
9:20 am
SELL THE TEAM ASG.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
July 15th, 2010
9:24 am
JOE with no moves trust me the hawks will fall back.
HEAT, MAGIC, CELTICS, BULLS, SIXERS, BUCKS, HAWKS, BOBCATS
GO HAWKS!!!!!!
ASHCAN.
July 15th, 2010
9:34 am
@Maxhawk,its joe johnson’s fault hoging up all the $$$$.Joe and the hawks ownership have something in common.
darrell starks
July 15th, 2010
9:34 am
TRUTH SERUM watch out for sixers this year.
JRUE HOLIDAY, EVAN TURNER, IGG, ELTON BRAND, SPEIGHTS.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
doc
July 15th, 2010
9:35 am
jeff i didnt even look. assumed it so as he has been down to d league and all. man somebody is holding some bad goods.
drmaryb
July 15th, 2010
9:40 am
Jeff
Bless your heart!
We’re shopping at The Dollar General Store and you’re so committed, that, you’re helping
The ASG sift through the bargain bin.
That Jeff is, well – Rich!
Seriously, that was a great and I’m sure very depressing job – compiling the scrubs list for us to ponder.
Well, I’m done pondering. Sorry, but thanks.
drmaryb
July 15th, 2010
9:48 am
Lord of The Rings
Phil Jackson – 11 Rings
Michael Jordan – 6 Rings
Aye … A girl can dream – Or Not?
O'Brien
July 15th, 2010
9:52 am
Even if the 3 things that Najeh mentioned does happen (Drew > Woody, Teague contributes, while Marvin, Josh and Al improve), there is no guarantee that we will be a top 4 seed.
Especially since we were the healthiest team in the NBA last year. What happens if Josh or Al gets injured and miss 12 games? Where is the solid frontcourt depth?
Truth Serum,
Teague’s assists to TO ratio his rookie season was 2.47. Chauncey Billups rookie season’s ratio was 1.87. Rondo’s rookie season, his was 2.1. I’m glad those GMs didn’t give up on those guys after their rookie year.
After 5 or 6 years in the league, people are still saying Marvin is young and will improve, and how Josh is young and will improve. Teague is 22, and in his second year. You don’t think he will improve?
KevinM
July 15th, 2010
10:02 am
Recap:
bigDave – you are dead-on correct about Cousins. Next time you see Sund, tell him what he missed! An absolute joke that Philly, Minny, and NJ passed on him. Now you know why they are where they are.
Ramon-Dealing Bibby and Zaza have been talked for 3 years now and nothing but ingraining them into this team. Bibby isn’t going anywhere now with what we have seen and heard from Teague. Just sad that John Lucas III and Curtis Jerrells look better at this point in running an offense.
Sawyer – Your review/eval of this offseason is dead on! Couldn’t have said it better as we continue to spin our wheels. My whole thought of that MLE we have: we will use it on 3 players before we ever give it to one player….we have never used the full MLE on one player.
MC – man, you are so on this team. You have some good contacts…you are the first one that has given us any indication of any activity. Kudos to you for a treacherous ordeal following the ASG/Sund and their blueprint for success.
TruthSeeker – I hope you’re the last one who puts LD and Phil Jackson in the same sentence. LD doesn’t have an inkling of what Jackson has had to work with. The entire staff isn’t Tex Winter level either.
Jeff – I will spot you any 5 of those Centers, put them on our bench, and we still run out of ways to contain Dwight. None are worthy, and none should be on an NBA bench enjoying a post game meal. Go to the NBDL to find a replacement in case of injury. These guys aren’t stopping Zaza.
dap01 – its called a cave-in approach. Finding optimism with every Hawks’ transaction is very challenging.
Samuel – the game last night wasn’t worth watching until the 4th quarter. We get down by about 23 to the pieces that the Spurs have put together and we make it a game with 6 min left. Spurs start watching us by shooting flailing jumpers allowing us to keep it close.
From our side:
Teague – defniite stuggles getting the offense started….guys weren’t in position to attack….. too many times, I saw Augustine hold onto a screen attempt like he was parked out there, yet we give him the ball where he can’t deliver. Down 4 under a minute, Teague’s missed 3 pointer at the top sealed the fate.
Randolph Morris – no more nicknames – my UK allegiance aside, he should have stayed in college if that was possible. He has yet to show enough energy, effort, or desire to go get rebounds. At crunch time at under 2 min, he gave up a rebound to a more energetic Spur, giving them a possession that sealed our fate.
Crawford-absolutely aggressive and no conscience. He will be a very good player once he doesn’t make cross court passes at critical junctures and realizes he needs to keep the ball in his hands under a minute.
Good to finally see the Hawks and having 3D on the mike was good as well. He tells it like it is….and he knows what we have with Randolph Morris.
O'Brien
July 15th, 2010
10:11 am
TS,
If Pat Riley thinks coaching aint ____, then why did he take over from Stan Van Gundy, which coincidentally is the same year the Heat won the NBA title?
jeff
July 15th, 2010
10:12 am
Kevin- I wasn’t saying those are who I wanted. That is all the UFA that are available unless we trade. I was only making a case.
SteveW
July 15th, 2010
10:12 am
Teague will be fine, just not this year. Steve Lavin on ESPN (now St. Johns coach) said in 5 yrs Teague woud be better than Ricky Rubio or Tyreke Evans. The key here is in 5 yrs., not after his 1st year. Obvious the kid has talent. Hollinger I believe before the draft had some weird chart to rank players – he had Rondo the 2nd best player in his draft, when others ranked him very low – look at him now. He did the same with Teague – Teague was like 3rd on Hollinger’s weird chart in the ‘09 draft. The dude will be a stud -that’s why we hired a former PG as Head Coach, and are giving Bibby 6m a year – to train the stud. If you watch the games, I have never seen a player as able to penetrate as Teague – it’s a gift -dude is quick as any player I ever remember.
That said – we need a PG besides Bibby/Teague this year if we want to win….
Will
July 15th, 2010
10:13 am
Does it really matter? It’s gonna be the Lakers or Heat in the end. Lakers have been to more than HALF of all NBA Finals. It’s like watching the WWE.
SteveW
July 15th, 2010
10:18 am
And the dude Jordan Crawford has totally surprised me – he may be the guy that saves us 10m a year by not having to re-sign Jamal next year. I thought he would be another 1st round bust. And ASG – spend the 3m you said you would on draft day! I know you lost 20m on the Hawks last year, but if you don’t have the money to lose 20m, sell the team to Ted Turner or Arthur Blank – they do!
Samuel
July 15th, 2010
10:19 am
Thanks Kev,
People, please don’t get too excited about this new fast moving, swing from side-to-side, hybrid Princeton offense. NBA players know that there are 82+ games and it takes too much energy to work that hard on offense. There have only been a few (and I mean a few) who were able to get their players to buy into it. Many more were given the “PINK SLIP” with all these elaborate schemes.
Which brings me to a point. I haven’t heard LD say too much about defense. MC, what’s his philosophy? I know he said he “would hold everybody accountable” but what’s his philosophy? Does he expect the guys to pressure, zone, what? Will he expect them to play pressure man and still work that hard on offense?
Samuel
July 15th, 2010
10:22 am
Steve,
In 5 years the man could be flippin Burgers like “The Sniper”. You remember him?
Freshmaker
July 15th, 2010
10:23 am
I know one of Milwaukee/Chicago has to win the division and thus will be ahead of the Hawks in the playoff seedings, but you guys are dilusional if you think both are. Hawks are still a 50-win team minimum, and are AT WORST a 5 seed. We might even be better than Miami since they are going to be the Marvelous 3 plus 9 guys from the spare parts bin.
SteveW
July 15th, 2010
10:23 am
Truth_Serum – Rondo was the 21st pick in the 2006 draft, just like Teague was the 21st pick in the ‘09 draft – not #9.
Samuel
July 15th, 2010
10:24 am
SteveW=KenS
tony
July 15th, 2010
10:25 am
This fans in the ATL just don’t get it. OK, here’s the problem with this team:
#1 Too many low IQ basketball players(JS/ MW)
#2 We don’t have a true facilitator(pg)
#3 We don’t have the right coach to take the current roster to the NBA Finals
#4 This team cannot beat Miami and Orlando in a up-tempo basketball game. NEVER!
This is why we should sign Shaq:
#1 He will make LD job much easier to manage
#2 We will dominate the league in a half court offense with Shaq, JS and AH.
#3 We have a go to guy(Shaq) who cannot be stopped in the paint
#4 Mike Bibby has the ability to get the ball to Shaq in the post
#5 Shaq knows what it takes to get to the NBA Finals
#6 Signing Shaq will give this franchise a chance to get to a NBA Finals since they moved this team to the ATL. We got to break the curse
#6 They should ride Shaq until they draft a center to fill his shoes
If we don’t sign Shaq this team won’t have a chance to play for a NBA Title.
SteveW
July 15th, 2010
10:25 am
Samuel – no doubt – alot is up to him and his desire to get better and learn. I agree with that.
SteveW
July 15th, 2010
10:26 am
One last point, to my knowledge Shaq hates Mike Bibby – does anybody know how personal and deep this really is or just a basketball rivalry?
Melvin
July 15th, 2010
10:28 am
There’s reports that the Knicks are interested in Shaq. Well, we can forget him coming to ATL now. You know NY has the money to spend…
SteveW
July 15th, 2010
10:29 am
Samuel – KenS must be on sharp dude
jeff
July 15th, 2010
10:29 am
I think our bench could be like this if we play our cards right. And I would be ok with it. I know most of you would/will disagree.
Jamal. Crawford
J. Crawford
Bibby
Allen Iverson (cheap and can score)
ZaZa
Brad Miller
A. Aminu
Mo Evans
Starters as we all know will be
Teague
JJ
Smoove
Horford
M.William
SteveW
July 15th, 2010
10:30 am
Ooops, I mean “one”! Ha!
Reality Check
July 15th, 2010
10:30 am
The Hawks have a decent core by NBA standards but it is obvious that to anyone that if they do not make ANY significant moves in this offseason they are going to drop back. Marvin has been a bust as a lottery pick why not shake things up and bring Shaq in? Starting line up with JJ, Bibby/Teague, JS at Small forward and Al to PF, Shaq at Center. At leat this would not be status quo for a team that got drummed in second round of playoffs. As Atl remains the same other teams are coing up on Chicago,Charlotte. There is no way we will sniff Miami, Boston and Orlando. This is a 5-6 seed at best with no changes and most likely first round exit.
Astro Joe
July 15th, 2010
10:31 am
bigdave, thanks for the props… my old motto is “follow the money”. Typically when you do that (especially when it comes to the Hawks) you can usually predict what may happen.
There is still a chance to improve on Collins, Joe Smith & RandMo. JC2 is a clear upgrade over Mario. We’re hopeful that Drew and his staff (which is remarkably similar to the last staff) will be better. With all of the other changes in the conference, the Hawks could be better but have fewer wins.
The most disturbing thing in Teague’s comments is that it has “QUIT” written all over them. Teague’s success is entirely based on that thing that sits on his shoulders. If he can’t figure out how to run Drew’s offense, how to set up his teammates or how to protect the ball, he will be the next Marcus Williams/Marcus Banks/Acie Law of the NBA. If he is a player who repsonds to frustration by taking his marbles and going home (as opposed to fighting through), then we need to trade him to the D League for a PG who is hungry and will run through a brick wall to be an NBA player. We don’t need any pampered babies who can’t stand the rain.
jeff
July 15th, 2010
10:35 am
Shaq is no longer better than Horford.
Astro Joe
July 15th, 2010
10:36 am
Oh, yeah, and all of those who said that Joe should have taken less money so that the team had more flexibility…the ONLY way you do that is if you have complete confidence that the money you leave on the table would be used on a player. So tell me, why would Joe think that if he left money on the table, the ASG would put it towards upgrading the talent on the roster? because they said so?
The guys who have done that (including Chipper with the Braves), KNEW that the money would get used on the roster. They had confidence in the ownership/leadership of the franchise. Why would Joe have comparable confidence in the ownership/leadership of the Hawks?
JJ
July 15th, 2010
10:38 am
Confession time:
I gotta admit, I was duped. I bought in hook/line/sinker on the “sign JJ and then focus on improving the roster” which, as far as I can tell, consists of trading Chills for a TE and a box of sneakers and flirting with a 40-yr old former All Star center that may or may not even want to come here.
I’ve said all along that the Status Quo wasn’t going to cut it but I’ve also believed in Sund that he would do what he said and improve the roster. Now nearly all the quality FAs are signed to other clubs and he’s spitting out the “maintaining the core” crap.
I feel like such an idiot for once again believing this franchise would actually do something right. Sigh…..
drmaryb
July 15th, 2010
10:41 am
Truth-Serum
I done laughed so hard – I damned near cried! Tears of Pain – NOT Joy!
We shopping at Piggly-Wiggly and the damned ASG is on the meat isle:
Sifting through, Pickled Pig Feet / Ham-Hocks /Turkey Necks / Ox-Tails / Chitterlings and Cow-Tounges!
They trying to get their blood pressure up!
Nookah
July 15th, 2010
10:42 am
Let’s try to put this in perspective. We keep blaming Sund but please remember Sund is an employee. He takes orders from further up and not just one voice. He has a number of voices to listen to because of our multi-headed ownership structure. That adds to the complication. The ASG reminds me of the government, any government. There are so many levels of bureaucracy he has to go through to make a decision and it is having a negative impact on the direction of the franchise.
Of course, we as fans want only one thing and that is to produce a winning team on the floor and I’m not talking regular season but success in the playoffs. We may be making the big assumption that the ASG has the same objective. However, I have to admit that in my opinion I don’t really think that is their main objective. I think they want to, like any other business, run a profitable one, but I think they think running a tight ship is priority #1. This thinking has it’s flaws because I am of the opinion that if you put a winning product on the floor then fans will come, then revenues will increase and national exposure will eventually come which translates into increased revenue and increased profitability. But I think cutting operating expenses is priority #1. Everything else is secondary.
Of course they had to sign JJ to the contract they did and the merits or demirits of that has been flogged to death on this blog. However, what have they done since then? Not much to solidify this team and put us over the 2nd round hump. I think they are putting too much emphasis and relying on the change of philosophy which they are hoping LD will bring. It is my opinion that he must have really sold them his package. Perhaps they went into that interview with a subjective mind simply because LD was the cheaper alternative. Don’t get me wrong, I like LD and I really hope he does a good job for the sake of our Hawks.
As some bloggers have mentioned here, there are some very cheap options (Raja Bell for example) that have passed us by and as usual we will be waiting until close to training camp to pick up the refuse and all the cheapest options that will be left on the market.
As a fan, it’s very frustrating and for the ASG, everything is going to plan. IMO, the truth is we never had any intentions of paying Shaq or Brad Miller for that matter, unless they were willing to take close to the vet minimum and that would never have happened. I have a feeling Dampier or some other cheap alternative will end up here.
We have to accept it, we have a reactive management and ownership not a proactive one!! We have to get used to it until maybe ownership changes hands.
Quickly on the topic of Marvin, I am not a proponent of trading Marvin. I think he has been supressed (and maybe oppressed) by Woody over the years and you are seeing a player who has completely lost his confidence, at least to me his body language says that. I am optimistic that LD will be able to bring more out of him. What most of us are forgetting is that he plays pretty good defense on the perimeter and we will see a different Marvin this year at least offensively.
Go Hawks!!!
Sautee,
July 15th, 2010
10:42 am
Enter your comments here
terrell
July 15th, 2010
10:50 am
Broke azzez! lol! And f… Shaq. 8 mill a year my azz!
terrell
July 15th, 2010
10:51 am
Just get us a pg and a couple of backup bigs. Is that too much to ask?
terrell
July 15th, 2010
10:52 am
Teague still playing like Woody is on the sidelines. Come on Jeff. get it together.
drmaryb
July 15th, 2010
10:53 am
Arthur Anderson!
Truth-Serum – Man on Fire! (ala Denzel Washington)
Cook them books – Like Arthur Anderson! (The CPA Firm who cooked the books for ENRON)
Hide them assets – Hide them Rings!
Phil Jackson – 11 Rings
- MJ 6 Rings
-Kobe 5 Rings
__________________
Phil = 0 Rings
LMBO!
Sautee
July 15th, 2010
10:56 am
I thought it would be informative to show the assist to turnover ratio for ALL of last year’s PGs down to Teague.
Here’s how they did(and their draft position):
Ty Lawson (18th): 2.4 / 1
Jeff Teague(19th): 2.4 / 1
Brandon Jennings(10th): 2.3 / 1
Stephen Curry(7th): 1.96 / 1
Tyreke Evans(4th): 1.9 / 1
Jrue Holliday(17th): 1.8 / 1
Jonny Flynn(6th): 1.5 / 1
Young point guards make mistakes. Period.
Hell, even Magic had a 1.8 / 1 ratio HIS rookie year. Much lower than Teague.
How’d THAT turn out?
My point is, that last year Teague was NOT a “turnover machine” and was actually a good or better than the guards drafted ahead of him when it came to taking care of the ball.
That said, I’d STILL like to get a veteran PG who can play good D.
yosisterbrother
July 15th, 2010
10:57 am
If we don’t pick up a center then that is pure TRASH! There were plenty of veteran centers in FA and they could have drafted one of the many centers on the board in the second round.
That was obviously the biggest need for this team in anticipation of facing DWIGHT HOWARD 4-8 times per year.
drmaryb
July 15th, 2010
10:59 am
Core Strength stability?
Aye ASG? You like your Core?
Your team is rotten to the Core!
Get you a:
A Damned PG
A Bona-Fide Center
A Damned SF
And, then come back and tell me – You LIKE your Core!
I would do SHAQ (not like Gloria did Delonte). In a heart beat for Marvin and get Raja Bell to defend the perimeter! WIN NOW! You may NEVER see Marvin’s potential! It’s been 6 years ASG – and IT ain’t working!
Sautee
July 15th, 2010
11:00 am
“as” good or better
O'Brien
July 15th, 2010
11:04 am
Truth,
True. You need talent and coaching. Clearly, the ASG thought we have enough talent, because their only change was coach.
I’m not a woody, but I do think we Have player issues as well.
Samuel,
From what I have read, lead assistant Conner will be responsible for the defense. But we haven’t hear specifics.
As for our pentangle offense, I think we will need a good bench to execute efficiently. Because i don’t know how Long before starters get tired and start free lancing.
But it starts with teague, so he has to be ready at start of season.
northcyde
July 15th, 2010
11:07 am
@ MsDee . . . . Like some of the others have said, it’s not the turnovers that bother me. This is summer league. These games are going to be sloppy, and look like glorified rec center games.
It’s Teague’s mentality that concerns me. The fact of the matter is, he wasn’t a true PG in college. He was more of a scoring combo guard . . much like what Salim Stoudamire was at Arizona. The exception is that Salim shot jumpers, while Teague consistently attacked the basket while shooting the occasional 3 pointer. Teague only averaged 3.5 assists in his last year at Wake. But he also averaged a whopping 7 FTs per game. So he was more of a score type PG than a playmaking type.
The reason why some are showing a little concern now, is because the plan is for Teague to be our STARTING PG next year. As the starter, I don’t want to hear him talking about passing the ball up to the wing. You cannot be passive and play PG, especially not in the NBA. You have to talk and act like the leader of the team. And you have to have confidence in yourself. He should be showing his leadership abilities with this summer league squad.
But if playing passively at PG is his mentality on the court, the coaching staff needs to correct that immediately. LOL. . if he passes that ball to JJ or Jamal or Smoove, he might not get the damn ball back.
**************************
@ BigRay and Doc . . . . What I say about supporting the team still stands. If the product is good ( which it will be even without moves ), the TEAM deserves the support of the fans. We as fans can’t bail out on the TEAM, just because management doesn’t strive to take chances.
But because they DON’T take chances, it IS an indictment on the ASG, and the mentality that they have concerning this team. I was all for signing Marvin Williams, primarily as insurance in case JJ left. Without JJ here, we were going to need all of the bodies we could get in here.
But when you talk about the “core”, Marvin is the most expendable of that core. If trading him gives you a chance to possibly upgrade the team, then it probably should be done. Personally, I would rather keep Marvin in the mix AND get Shaq.
But if signing and trading for Shaq would give you monetary relief, plus add that “presence” that Stinger talked about in that nba.com clip that Samuel posted, then I don’t see how you CAN’T take that chance. You almost have to.
yoursporthouse.com
July 15th, 2010
11:09 am
Let’s make the deal already, what’s taking so long? Hate this fifty million owners crap…
ryan
July 15th, 2010
11:10 am
The Suns are looking like decent team they added Turkalo , Childress , Warrick , they still have have Steve Nash i think Stoudemire should not have left the Suns.
Mista Gamer
July 15th, 2010
11:15 am
M.C.
Be sure to ask Joe why he was selfish enough to eat up all the financial capacity of the team when other REAL superstars were leaving money on the table to help bring in others?
Oh, and tell him I said, “THANKS ALOT JOE!!! The fans really appreciate your leadership and desire to win”.
Oh what the hell we shouldn’t be surprised. He was chasing the money when he signed with us the first time.
I hope he works for every dime of that money by playing 40+ mins a nite. Courtesy of Joe, we won’t have enough quality players on the bench anyway.
What a total tool.
northcyde
July 15th, 2010
11:15 am
LOL . . . the ASG reminds me of a spades player that loves to hold onto the Ace of Spades, because they’re so afraid that their Ace is going to be overtaken by the Little or Big Joker.
Sometimes . . . you have to sacrifice that Ace to BRING OUT one of the Jokers, so that the rest of your spades can get ( books or tricks ). And if you play that Ace early, it forces the opponent to play that Joker, or make a mistake and hold on to it.
LOL . . the ASG would suck at playing Spades.
♥Mz. Hawkdafied♥
July 15th, 2010
11:17 am
Fudge San An’s D Leaguers. Teague’s already in the door. Teague’s there to work on his weaknesses and in contrast those D League players are there to audition.
It would help Teague a lot if those big fellas or somebody besides him and Hendrix would rebound for a change.
g-dub
July 15th, 2010
11:19 am
That’s whats wrong with the hawks now, you guys are discussing mediocre players as if they are difference makers, hell I say package Marvin and Josh and throw in whoever else and in return get Carmello or a Chris Paul type of guy. Forget about Shaq his game is garbage
moboman
July 15th, 2010
11:20 am
Teague clearly forcing it yesterday and trying to do too much with too little help. Im not giving up on him yet, but his jumper looks like Childress (from the hip) which will limit his shots. A lot of y’all seem to forget how much Bibbys shooting opens the floor up and spreads the defense. Not ready to lose that aspect of Bibbys game. Unless we can get another PG, they will both have value on this team in situations.
northcyde
July 15th, 2010
11:31 am
And Joe Johnson is NOT to blame for all of this. There’s no way the star of the team is playing for 10 or 11 million per year, like some of you want him to. At the very least, his new contract was going to start out around 15 mill a year anyway. And that doesn’t give us a lot of relief either.
This is management simply not willing to tweak the lineup by trading away a piece that they covet. There are teams all over the league that have made moves by trading starters this summer. If they’re hedging on Shaq, it’s because they still value Marvin ( or don’t want to admit that drafting Marvin in the first place was a mistake ).
The fact is . . . Marvin got a ton of open looks last year, even within our “flawed” offensive system, and he just didn’t knock the shots down like he normally does. He’s a decent player nonetheless.
But we’re talking about adding a 300 lb center who can still play the game. And a guy that is still one of the top 5 most popular players in the NBA.
If Marvin Williams is going to be the guy that prevents us getting Shaq, most of the fan base is going to be pizzed, seeing that very few people see Marvin as an essential “have to keep” type player. If we get Shaq, you at least inject life and hope for the future into the fan base.
But bringing back the exact same team that failed miserably in that 2nd round vs Orlando, would be a mistake in my opinion. They have to add SOMEBODY that can help us.
northcyde
July 15th, 2010
11:38 am
For you twitter fans, this is from Stephen A. Smith . . . this was posted within the last hour concerning the Shaq situation:
# Already been called by Joe Johnson, telling him to stop playing games and to get his big self to Atlanta. It’s on Shaq now. His call.
42 minutes ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®
***********************
# It’s all a matter of whether it’ll be a sign-and-trade (that will get him the $8 mil per he wants) or a 2-year deal for less. Shaq has
42 minutes ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®
*****************************
# Also…the latest on the Shaq Front: Cleveland’s offer is low-ball. So is the one from Chicago. So it looks like Atlanta is the spot for him
44 minutes ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®
northcyde
July 15th, 2010
11:39 am
http://twitter.com/stephenasmith
tidog
July 15th, 2010
11:39 am
Woody never played teague collins or smith meaningful minutes in his system. no one really knows how productive these guys would be in a rotation that was thoughtfully developed. go collins and smith. the bigs are on the team they just weren’t used.
dap01
July 15th, 2010
11:39 am
Shaq on paper fits the need of the Hawks. But remember, no team that Shaq has played on wants him back.
Khao$
July 15th, 2010
11:40 am
MC, any truth to Stephen A’s tweets?
doc
July 15th, 2010
11:44 am
astro, what you said:
Oh, yeah, and all of those who said that Joe should have taken less money so that the team had more flexibility…the ONLY way you do that is if you have complete confidence that the money you leave on the table would be used on a player. So tell me, why would Joe think that if he left money on the table, the ASG would put it towards upgrading the talent on the roster? because they said so?
bears repeating.
heh heh
northcyde, no, fans dont get better teams by showing up and giving away their only tangible point to keep a team accountable, the dollars spent. if they spend i spend, if they dont and falter down the stretch and i am spending money on them then shame on me. any fan who boos thinking more is going to come of an inferior product after spending and after a declaration that they are going to man up and make this a truly better team it is their lack of discernment with their entertainment dollar, their stupidity. that is all it is, no obligation on my part or entitlement for them which at times you make it sound like. sorry, i disagree on the entitlement part. remember it has been their words not mine, that set any expectation for improvement northcyde. follow the money to know where these guys hearts lie.
♥Mz. Hawkdafied♥
July 15th, 2010
11:46 am
I have never said Teague should start. I just thought that he should get more playing time. Honestly I was still thinking of Mike Bibby as part of the core. Does it really matter who starts? As a fan I just want what works best for the team.
So from this point forward I’m like whatever. Work it out then Hawks organization.
♥Go Hawks!♥
northcyde
July 15th, 2010
11:49 am
Doc . . the product has improved tremendously. 34 home wins last year . . .90 home wins in the last 3 years. The concern this year is that all of the teams above and around us are upgrading, so we fans feel like we should be upgrading too. But I be damn if I bail out on this team right now. NO way. Not after watching all of those sub .500 teams we had to endure for 8 years straight. I’m not bailing on them now, when they’re actually a good ( but not great ) team.
That would be like U. of Georgia football fans not supporting the Bulldogs, simply because they can’t get into the SEC title game, but still put a pretty good product out on the field.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 15th, 2010
12:07 pm
I am also worried about Teague’s mentality based on his comments, but he would have to have a nervous breakdown for me to consider Bibby a better starting option than him. Hopefully Larry Drew can get that straightened out.
jeff
July 15th, 2010
12:08 pm
Gotcha- Did the legalize weed yet? If not you need to stop smoking it.
northcyde
July 15th, 2010
12:15 pm
The other thing about the Shaq situation is that if we don’t get him, one of the East contenders may get him. So we may have to still deal with this dude, whether he’s with us . .or against us. Don’t blink ASG.
As Detective Alonzo Harris ( Denzel Washington in Training Day ) once said. . .
“The ish’s CHESS . . it ain’t CHECKERS!!”
David Crockett
July 15th, 2010
12:16 pm
Ok if we trade marvin for shaq. Then we are looking at
shaq zaza
al
josh evans
joe crawford
teague bibby
how come we didnt try to trade evans to sign chill marvin makes about what 7 million shaq wants 8 so its only a million more. chill got 5 year 34 million minus evans contract its only about 4,5 million more. Had they not given joes so damn much we could of had a very deep line up
5 shaq zaza
4 al vet
3 josh chill
2 joe crawford
1 teague bbby
ICECOLD
July 15th, 2010
12:17 pm
Man…. if the hawks lose in the second round again… they need to go back, retire woody…. and then fire woody !!!!!
Lol.
But seriously. If he would have gave teague some minutes, we wouldn’t be second guessing if he can play point guard. So even though u are gon woody. All this is still blamed on u!! This is all your fault. Because if u would have had a better offense , we wouldn’t still have to wonder if Marvin could play!!!
So still. It’s
FIRE WOODY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
David Crockett
July 15th, 2010
12:19 pm
im sure we could trade bibby…they should of done that and went after some one like rdnour or duhon….cheaper and around the same production if not more
terrell
July 15th, 2010
12:22 pm
Just read that Jo Crawford used to play some pg. Interesting.
TheAntiMe
July 15th, 2010
12:26 pm
It’s easy to think that the reason that the ASG isn’t spending any money this offseason is due to the Joe Johnson contract. Personally, I don’t think that they would be spending any money even if Joe had signed elsewhere.
I remember reading a quote somewhere during the 2nd round of this year’s playoffs that the Hawks were the only team left in either conference who wasn’t currently paying the luxury tax. If that is true then it really appears that the lame ASG has no real desire to provide the means to make the Hawks a title contender.
I suppose that it was foolish of me to believe that they would actually follow through on all of their talk about paying the tax and doing whatever else it takes to get the team past the 2nd round of the playoffs.
In fairness to the ASG, there still is time for them to follow through on making meaningful upgrades to the Hawks but, as many of you good folks out there have probably already figured out before now, it appears that the ASG is just going to go with what they got and hope to get lucky and have a good player fall into their lap on the cheap either through free agency or via a lucky trade. That, as well as, hoping that the new coaching regime can provide most of the improvement to get them out of round 2.
It looks like the ASG is going with the just cross your fingers, think happy thoughts and hope for the best approach as it doesn’t appear that they are planning to invest any tangible assets into the Hawks anytime in the near future. Very much a buzzkill.
At least I do have high hopes that Jordan Crawford and Jeff Teague will help improve the Hawks this coming season. (Being that Teague was rarely, if ever, utilized in a meaningful way this past season, it’s almost like having two new 1st round draft picks join the team.) At least, to me, it seems that the potential is there in the youngest Hawks.
David Crockett
July 15th, 2010
12:26 pm
I think Jo crawford could play some pg…he is basically a rookie version of Jamal…which makes now the time to groom him into what jamal isnt
northcyde
July 15th, 2010
12:27 pm
Icecold . . . is it possible that Woody already thought that?
People have to start looking at these players as individuals, and stop believing that a coach can control all of their actions, like he has an X-Box controller. Teague has the ability. But does he have the mentality? That’s what people are concerned about now. The ability has always been there, but he has to BELIEVE in himself that he can do it.
Summer league scrubs can’t frustrate him to the point in which he’s willing to give the ball up.
terrell
July 15th, 2010
12:29 pm
Ryan, if Amare wouldn’t of left the Suns, they would’nt have Childress and Turk.
tidog
July 15th, 2010
12:31 pm
Whinedog and your 85% of nba teams came from ?
moboman
July 15th, 2010
12:33 pm
Teague has the ball handling and driving tools, if he gets the mentality of the posn, and most importantly, if he can shoot, he will be fine. A PG with no jumper will set us back to the Chillz days when we played 4 against 5 on offense while the defense slacked away from him. Our improvement with Bibby the past coupla years, despite his defensive falloff, is based on his ability to nail the three at a high percentage. That alone completely changes the defensive strategy. Shaq down low and Bibby out on the perimeter would make a nice combo IMO.
drmaryb
July 15th, 2010
12:40 pm
doc
Yes Sirrr! Tell Em’ Bruh. That was worth repeating. Dang! I forgot what you were repeating? I got so fired up when I read your last post!
Doc, can you believe this ISH? What are they doing over there?
Shopping for pig – tails & hot sauce to go with these collard greens?
Go – Figure!
KevinM
July 15th, 2010
12:44 pm
Let me ask a dumb question: I know all these guys get guarantees, but why can’t we offer Shaq incentives for wins/minutes/all-star appearance that gives him the $$ he is looking for…what’s wrong with that? I know he shouldn’t have to prove himself, but its up to Sund to make the numbers work.
So far
- we have saved $$ on pick 31 which could have been Gani Lawal
- we get a TPE from the Childress giveaway
- we are told the ASG will do what it takes to move us to the next level.
So far, Reality Check has said it best…no changes appears to be the consensus so far….yes, its still early to form a roster, and we probably promote the bench changes going forward, but man, watching player after player with some game siging elsewhere is frustrating. Sund isn’t outbidding anyone for an employee.
Getting specific now….
Jeff-I know you didn’t promote any of those minimum salary centers, but that is our picking order and I can show you how to save the ASG 1M for each of those guys.
Freshmaker – These Hawks with LD will be lucky to be 3rd in our division as we watch Orlando and Miami move further ahead of us. No doubt in my mind if we don’t bring in a big factor.
Samuel – LD’s philosophy is apparently different than Woody’s. Other than that, all of us would just be guessing.
Astro Joe – I haven’t given up on Teague just yet. And that name, Marcus Williams conjurs up what I thought about him, and that he was a can’t miss. I still thinks he is better than he shows,but I guess that is why we keep Marvin here as well.
NorthCyde – I don’t blame Joe one dollar, I would not have taken that long to sign that offer. I just think neither side considers the long term ramifications that this does to this team. GIve me Joe and 4 years, I am fine. Those extra 2…no thx. But really, Joe should just not talk and play. For all of us looking to save his energy for the playoffs….forget him….make him play every minute if that is the only way for us to win.
jeff
July 15th, 2010
12:46 pm
We didn’t sign Chills for $30 million because he isn’t worth it. He was a bench player that wasn’t an all-star when he was. Chills isn’t the answer for us and never was. Look at his stats for the proof
Michael Cunningham
July 15th, 2010
12:47 pm
@N-Trigue: “Is it any chance that we go after Scola from Houston?”
he’s RFA. the Rockets have said they will match any offers and the Hawks can’t make one large enough, anyway, if they are really intent on avoiding the tax. Rockets were asking for a lot in sign-and-trade scenarios including Scola so i doubt that’s a possibility.
tidog
July 15th, 2010
12:52 pm
Truth-Serum, bull expeletive. The AJC and everyone in Fulton County thought signing Joe Smith last summer was the 2nd coming of the messiah and he was just what was needed off the bench/role player.
David Crockett
July 15th, 2010
12:52 pm
chill is better than marvin..plays hard and give effort…..i bet you he has more highlights than marvin in the 4 he was here than the 6 of marvin plus a career 500 plus scorer and his career 3 pt% is pretty good. You dont have to run plays for him. he gets garbage point lol but hey thats the problem..hawks dont get easy baskets
Jay Dubu
July 15th, 2010
12:54 pm
I guess some of the real issues are coming to light. Woody knew that he had to win, or be out, (should have left with Billy “can’t draft” Knight) thus he stayed with the veteran players to the demise of developing rookies.
As you see, ASG is not going is not going to bring in any players that can help propell the Hawks to a higher level, they’re only filling out the roster.
I just don’t see where improvement is coming from with almost the identical coaching staff, and the same group of players.
David Crockett
July 15th, 2010
12:56 pm
@ truth serum….if he come to atl then throw him in the line up…move josh to the 3 Al to the 4. I know no one wants to see a shaq kick out to josh smith for the 3 lol but josh does not have to play the 3 the whole game. just while Shaq is in
tidog
July 15th, 2010
12:58 pm
Truth-Serum, unable to do any of that, but I know what I read and you should know what you read.
Michael Cunningham
July 15th, 2010
12:58 pm
@northcyde: “Like I said. . . the 60% iFG he gives up is pretty high. But the 16.5 Defensive PER he has at center, makes him one of the better overall defending centers in the NBA. So there’s 2 sides to his defense”
there’s also Al’s Synergy numbers, which are excellent: .72 PPP allowed in the post while not fouling much (9 pct of possessions) and forcing a lot of turnovers (14.5 pct of possessions). putting all of the numbers together–the iFG, PER, PPP, etc.–they suggest Al is a smart position defender who causes problems with his quickness and makes his opponents work hard to get inside. but once they do get to the rim he has a tough time stopping them. i think that pretty much matches up with that we see.
Marcus
July 15th, 2010
1:00 pm
I see that MIN acquisition of Luke Ridnour has PG Ramon Sessions on thin ice. Full disclosure: some of us kinda like Mr. Sessions as a FA last summer before Bibby re-upped ans Sessions eventually fell into the laps (and apparently out of favor) of the MIN coaching staff.
just sayin..(.filling up cyberspace)….. not that the ASG has the means or desire to spend the money or make a trade.
drmaryb
July 15th, 2010
1:00 pm
He IS the most Interesting MAN in the World!
He IS the most Intelligent MAN in the World!
He IS Joe Johnson!
He is NOT the Orator of the obvious: (aaah ..Where is my #1& my #5?)
He IS NOT a Chest – Thumper: (aaah … Can a brotha’ get a direct deposit slip?)
He is NOT an Emotional – Guy: (aaah … Anybody know where’s my pillow? Yawning.)
Call Joe whatever you want … (Brotha’ Got Paid more than the Super-Friends combined!)
While The ASG are fighting in the Courts – of – Law?
Joe is playing on the Court – of – Basketball!
Ring or NOT – Joe is a WINNER!
ASG Effed’ him – So he Effed’ them back!
KevinM
July 15th, 2010
1:01 pm
Truth,
I really didn’t want to focus on the all-star thing, but like Jordan, he does have an opportunity to get there. And I think he should start if he comes here as well as long as we are successful.
My point was adding incentives to the MLE to entice him to work for the number he thinks he is worth. Is he worth the number he is asking for? Sure, if you can get someone to pay you and yes, he should be paid accordingly. But come to some agreement and get him in our mix.
Me, I think a lineup of Al or Smoove and Shaq as our backline makes us better on the defensive AND offensive end.
With the little progress we have made this offseason, a spark of hope is needed. As a fan of this team, who wouldn’t tune in to see how Shaq does with ‘THE CORE’?
David Crockett
July 15th, 2010
1:02 pm
bottom like for all the troubles……Billy Knight screwed us. ha drafted chill a 2/3 and smith a 3/4
then he takes ,marvin a 3…ok so i guess he figures we got a nice core of josh marvin and chill. Then we sign joe…which automatically sends chill to the bench making our #6 pick a bench player. Then we take sheldon @ #5. He drafted with the #5 pick a player to come off the bench…did he think sheldon was gonna start @ center idk maybe he didnt think Howard would be a problem lol
Michael Cunningham
July 15th, 2010
1:03 pm
@ tls: “Wait a minute, I thought payroll was at 65 mil before we traded Chills for nothing?”
Chills was never officially on the payroll so it didn’t change.
“If in fact they aren’t going to spend more than 5 mil more, does that mean there could be a trade? It would not break my heart to see MArvin traded but not for Shaq- must be someone younger with more upside. Jamal could go to but that would require a hafty return since he is so valuable. Any thoughts, MC?”
sure, there can always be a trade. i see all the speculation about the Hawks being motivated to trade Marvin, but when i talk to Hawks people i don’t hear the same enthusiasm for moving him. of course no team wants it out there that they are looking to move a guy so maybe they are just trying to downplay it but i just don’t sense that the Hawks are really shopping him as hard as other reports suggest.
GeeMack
July 15th, 2010
1:07 pm
Khao$
Remember Stephen A. Smith broke the Miami story 2 weeks before ESPN & Chris Brossauard.
Michael Cunningham
July 15th, 2010
1:09 pm
@ Samuel: “I haven’t heard LD say too much about defense. MC, what’s his philosophy? I know he said he “would hold everybody accountable” but what’s his philosophy? Does he expect the guys to pressure, zone, what? Will he expect them to play pressure man and still work that hard on offense?”
the most i’ve gotten out of him on that is he wants guys to “take the individual challenge” on defense. in other words, stay in front of your man and don’t always rely on switches or help.
Khao$
July 15th, 2010
1:12 pm
GeeMack,
Yes, I remember that Stephen A was on top of it. So much so he just about put his name on the line (”I’m only as good as my sources”). So, it is what it is. I guess it’s in Shaq’s court.
drmaryb
July 15th, 2010
1:12 pm
Blog – Ness Monster got me!
FYI don’t trash the ASG! And, I was a – Man on Fire too! SMH
David Crockett
July 15th, 2010
1:12 pm
josh is good…but not great….i wouldnt say one of the best….versitile or a jack of all trades but being good at many things means your not great @ anything joshes athletic ability would allow him to flourish…..you dont see josh chasing guys down( which is what he did till lebron make it cool) because he is stuck in the paint let him play the 3…o yeah and stick josh @ the 5 and lets see how many blocks he gets
Michael Cunningham
July 15th, 2010
1:17 pm
@ Mista Gamer: “M.C. Be sure to ask Joe why he was selfish enough to eat up all the financial capacity of the team when other REAL superstars were leaving money on the table to help bring in others?”
i see what you are saying and in understand why fans might feel that way. but i think that’s an oversimplified analysis.
i saw where the SuperFriends have opt outs in their deals after four years. so they are all still young (and good) enough where they can still expect to get another rich deal when these deals end (and if not, they just opt-in). J.J. won’t see another big contract. plus, the SuperFriends know that the team already is so good with them on it they can sacrifice a little cash and make it great, then make up the cash through all the off-court money that’s coming their way. neither scenario is the case with J.J.
so i think the “sacrifice” angle is being overplayed with the SuperFriends (but not with Haslem and others who really are sacrificing to join them).
Michael Cunningham
July 15th, 2010
1:20 pm
@Khaos: “MC, any truth to Stephen A’s tweets?”
well, i’m not sure if JJ called him. if by “his call” SAS means Shaq has to decide if he will take less cash and a bench role, then yes that’s accurate. but the $16 million is out of the question.
Dan23
July 15th, 2010
1:20 pm
@MC: Interesting post on Steven A Smith’s Twitter page. He seems to be a reliable source in the NBA circles. Did JJ reach out to Shaq?
doc
July 15th, 2010
1:27 pm
northcyde no i am not bailing out on them, just not all in, yet. sorry, they have to prove their product is worthy and competitive and not taking a step back ala warriors, clippers and other teams with similar track records to our lowly hawks franchise. you remember what happened to those storied franchises recently dont you? one or two seasons does not make an organization of fulfillment.
dude, they are blinking so much they probably think there is a strobe light somewhere.
doc
July 15th, 2010
1:29 pm
mc @ 1:15, see astro’s coments above on the matter. it bears repeating. why does anyone think the asg is going to spend?
newkid
July 15th, 2010
1:29 pm
So I’ll get on with it then with the Rx.
Mounting a challenge to the Heat for the next 6-8 years, or other teams built on the Garnett/Allen/Pierce Boston model, will require the ASG (or some subsequent ownership group) attract at least one ‘tier one’ player to combine with perhaps two of the current talents, and additional reasonably priced complementary pieces. Failing to do so will almost surely mean purgatory for more than the next half a decade, and one doesn’t need to be a Mensa member to come to that conclusion. Even George Karl – a nice Carolina guy – recognized it last night in his ESPN interview.
So how does one do it? First, if we assume a new CBA similar to the current, then JJ’s contract – if not already finalized – needs to be structured in the most cap-friendly manner possibile for the 2nd and 3rd years (years we’re likely to try and attract at least one of the MEGA players needed to help build the side that will compete in the East going forward). Gosh that contract could really become an albatross.
Second, gotta be proactive in signing Al, and his contract needs to be front-end loaded in the first year (the allowable 17% 1st bonus would be quite helpful in this regard). If Sund repeats the stunt he pulled with Smoove a couple years back, or for that matter the stunt he pulled with Chills two years ago, then we’ll for sure wind up with some side offering Al a deal structured that’ll further restrict our ability to gain the cap circumstances needed to absorb the salary of a FA MEGA player either during the summer of ‘11 or summer of ‘12.
Third, I don’t like this at all but there’s likely to be the need to move Josh before the start of the last year of his current deal, and must get picks and TPE in exchange. Unless we’re getting a CP3 in the deal, don’t take guaranteed contracts for Smoove.
Fourth, gotta clear Marvin’s salary, and may need to clear Zaza’s as well. If we do this early, than those coming back need to expire at the end of the 11/12 season, or be non-guaranteed.
Fifth, gotta somehow get a couple excellent rookie contract players on the roster over next couple years. MEGA FAs need to know that they’re not coming into a complete re-build situation. They must see the real prospect for competing for the O’Brien tropy, otherwise not likely to return Sund’s call from his rotary phone. Hopefully Jordan Crawford will begin to fit the bill (don’t know about Teague); a competent scouting department would have identified a piece at 31 to develop (either here or in Europe) for use as a cheap, contributing piece in a couple years.
Sixth, gotta do all the above while making moves that’ll allow the side to remain reasonably competitive over the next two years. Unless one or more of the 8 heads of the ASG monster suddenly becomes a Paul Allen, they’ll need to continue to grow Hawks revenue to afford to take the foregoing steps. Significant retrogressing over the next couple years won’t produce the needed funds. Unlike the Knicks owners, these cats can’t afford the financial consequences of a couple of back-to-back 25 wins seasons and still harbor notions of building a contender in the next half decade.
So if these are the sorts of considerations Sund is weighing, maybe I (we) should give him a bit of a break, right? If only they’d give us a few reasons to hope, maybe we wouldn’t be so persnicketdy.
This is the sort of ‘gambling’ that’ll likely be required to assemble the pieces required to compete at the highest levels of this emerging new NBA. Unfortunately (see Knicks, et al) there’s no guarantee the gamble will pay dividends.
Sorry for the long-windedness. Where’s HB Ando?
Michael Cunningham
July 15th, 2010
1:34 pm
@ Truth: not “dressing up” anything. those are the numbers. you choose to select the numbers that make your point and ignore those that don’t, which doesn’t make for a complete (or fair and honest) analysis. that’s “dressing up” an argument. by contrast, my analysis acknowledged that Al has trouble stopping guys once they get to the rim but also points out that he as strengths as a defender.
as for fouls, according to Synergy Al committed a shooting foul on 9 percent of defensive possessions in the post and forced turnovers on 14.5 percent of possessions. but i don’t expect you to give those numbers much notice since they don’t fit your narrative.
“We all agree 60% of the guys who try and score on horford in the paint succeed, And we all agree thats a high number.”
you do know that’s not what 60% iFG means, right?
PRESTONI
July 15th, 2010
1:51 pm
MC–You certainly can’t take a Vacation until this Situation is resolved (at least finish out the Week of Summer League Basketball–maybe you’ll Win some Money at the Blackjack Table).
I guess that James Naismith is rolling over in his Grave saying “If I knew the ASG would own an NBA Team, I wouldn’t have invented Basketball”. Seriously though, I am still holding out Hope for the ASG to follow through with Their Promise to Improve the Team. So if you are reading this (and I’m sure at least someone in Your Organization reads this Blog)–DON’T LET THE LOYAL HAWK FANS DOWN. It doesn’t make sense to Own a Team and not really Try to Win.
Too many people put their Hearts and Souls into this, so hopefully you will do the right thing.
As far as Basketball Matters–the Hawks were really Lucky last Season on the Injury Front. This so-called Core Group was really exposed in the Playoffs. Stick with this Group and we will be 10 Games Out of First Place in Our Division by Dec. 15th and then you will feel like Trading Everybody. There are ALWAYS ways to improve the Team by making Trades and shifting the Salary Burden. Right now it looks like we will need a Point Guard to go along with that Big Man. I really like Jeff Teague, but he is still not ready to be Our Starting Point Guard and his Personality may not allow him to ever be a True Leader (Chris Paul could be a Player/Coach because he has the Mentality to do so). So if our best recourse is a Deal with Cleveland, it should be for the acquisition of Shaq and Mo Williams. You can find a way to make the Salaries Work by giving up Marvin Williams, Pachulia (he should have some value for the Cavs), Bibby and if necessary Mo Evans. I think Cleveland really does want Marvin Williams to be their Starting Small Forward (and perhaps he will flourish on a New Team); I also think the Cavs are eventually going to Trade Mo Williams anyway. So if there is a True Will, there is a way to make this Trade work. If not, I would look to Golden State as a Trading Partner–there are really Many Possibilities here.
If Shaq still wants more money, start Shopping Harry the Hawk (sorry Harry) and give Shaq the Job (and Money) that the Mascot makes. If that does not suffice then give Shaq the Naming Rights to Philips Arena–calling it The ShaqTorium. At any rate, you get my point–this Team Needs A Personality perhaps more than any Other Team in Professional Sports and we just can’t bypass this opportunity to Gain One of the Biggest Personalities around. Shaq loves attention and I can’t see him passing up this opportunity to garner perhaps More Attention and Love from the Starving Hawk Fans than he could ever imagine.
Life is Short–ASG don’t let us down!!!
macaroni tony
July 15th, 2010
1:54 pm
Already been called by Joe Johnson, telling him to stop playing games and to get his big self to Atlanta. It’s on Shaq now. His call.
Samuel
July 15th, 2010
1:55 pm
Thanks MC,
So that basically means that he won’t be spending a lot of time on it. Kinda like my boy Woody felt about offense. His philosophy worked enough to get 53 wins. Again, when we are at our best is when we pressure the ball and deny. I’m not sure (LD) can pull it off.(Moving so much on both ends).
Next interview, please ask him how he plans to pull off all that running with a bench like we have. Also, try to get him to be a little more technical about his defensive philosophy.
Truth. Al Horford to the bench. That’s funny. These people believe in some Al Horford but you are absolutely right, Shaq at 38 is a better center. I would love for one of my all time favorites to come here but Josh cannot play the 3 period. He can’t handle or shoot the ball well enough. We all know Shaq is a 2 year rental but so what. That’s what the league has come to so if we want to be serious, we have to adapt. Personally, i’m sick of “UPSIDE”. Upside never won a dam_ thing.
I’m trying to think. Has there ever been a Hawks player with a ring on the roster?
Grandad
July 15th, 2010
1:58 pm
Michael Cunningham:
Dallas was reported to be shopping Alex Ajinca.
Any interest? Hawks? Fits their protocol = cheap!
jeff
July 15th, 2010
1:59 pm
Mc is this a logical roster?
I think our bench could be like this if we play our cards right. And I would be ok with it. I know most of you would/will disagree.
Jamal. Crawford
J. Crawford
Bibby
Allen Iverson (cheap and can score)
ZaZa
Brad Miller
A. Aminu
Mo Evans
Starters as we all know will be
Teague
JJ
Smoove
Horford
M.Williams
Grandad
July 15th, 2010
1:59 pm
*is reported / *was reported, prolly shoulda gone with “is”.
Samuel
July 15th, 2010
2:11 pm
Jeff,
Forget about AI. He’s too hood for this outfit.Plus, he doesn’t have any “UPSIDE”.
ToeKnee
July 15th, 2010
2:14 pm
11:10
[Comment From england4ever england4ever: ]
Tell us about that game last season when Nate R. was with the Knicks and they came to the ATL. Nate and you went wild that game. Was there any friendly trash talk going on as well? You guys dominated.
Thursday July 15, 2010 11:10 england4ever
11:11
Jamal Crawford:
We were stretching together before the game started and I told him he was going to win that night, and he didn’t believe me. To see what he did in that game after being out for a month, was one of the best games I’ve ever been a part of.
WTF JAMAL
ToeKnee
July 15th, 2010
2:16 pm
Jamal Crawford:
Mike Bibby and Josh Smith are the biggest pranksters I’ve ever been around with the exception of Nate Robinson. It’s the loosest team I’ve ever been on, by far.
MAYBE TOO LOOSE?
Grandad
July 15th, 2010
2:17 pm
Hawks summer league built just like reg. season team.
No Bigs.
Last eve couldn’t get a rebound. [especially when it counted]
Outscored / point in the paint / by double figures +.
Positive article on Teaguer & JC2 HoopsWorld.
Teaguer got no cred last eve for toughness.
(Iverson-esque) Now listen to what I’m saying.
Smallish guy gets beat up, keeps goin’ right @ ‘em.
Took a hard fall, didn’t miss a play. [made both FT's]
Really good FT shooter (maker)
Remember he challenged Thabeet & tried to dunk on ‘im.
The kid’s tough. [like Iverson] point made.
Couldn’t they find a Big ol’ scrapper to play summer ball?
Are they -[ASSG]-(Sund)-{LD}- completely averse to Bigs.
I’m not talkin’ about 6-7 guys, either.
Alex Ajinca = available.
Grandad
July 15th, 2010
2:17 pm
*point”s” in the paint*
Melvin
July 15th, 2010
2:18 pm
Samuel,
Did Ty Lue get a ring with the Lakers prior to joining the Hawks?
northcyde
July 15th, 2010
2:20 pm
Samuel
July 15th, 2010
1:55 pm
I’m trying to think. Has there ever been a Hawks player with a ring on the roster?
*********************************
Tyronn Lue ( Lakers ) and Speedy Claxton ( Spurs ) are the first two that immediately come to mind. Stephen Jackson ( Spurs ).
Sautee
July 15th, 2010
2:40 pm
Truth-serum said:
“We all agree 60% of the guys who try and score on horford in the paint succeed, And we all agree thats a high number.”
And M.C. replied: “you do know that’s not what 60% iFG means, right”
LMFAO
Well T-s, “Now You Know”!
heh heh.
bigdave
July 15th, 2010
2:40 pm
Melvin..
yep.. remember he was stepped over in a humiliating fashion game 1 vs AI’s 6′ers..
Rod from College Park
July 15th, 2010
2:44 pm
Matt Barnes, who started 56 games at small forward for the Magic last season, apparently has heavy interest from two of Orlando’s main East rivals: the Miami Heat and the Boston Celtics. Those with knowledge of the situation say Barnes is strongly considering the Heat or the Celtics, among several other teams. Orlando Sentinel
KevinM
July 15th, 2010
2:49 pm
The more we move forward, the more it looks like the cap is the limit here.
Saying that, the roster is as follows for now:
Al/Smoove/Marvin/JJ/Bibby
Teague/Mo/Zaza/JC1/JC2
So it sounds like we have 4 slots open and how much for those 4 slots?
dap01
July 15th, 2010
2:54 pm
I was speaking to the ASG last night and they seemed surprised that most team has tall people at the Center position.
MsDee
July 15th, 2010
2:58 pm
@northcyde “Summer league scrubs can’t frustrate him to the point in which he’s willing to give the ball up.”
Yes they can, esp when you are a 1st time ‘rookie’ in this situation yourself. I can see if he played the same identical way the 1st game, then I would be concern but this is ONLY the second game. And people need to realize that the reason JC2 can look soo poise his rookie summer league is b/c he hasnt had a coach named Woodson to kill ALL CONFIDENCE FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR. Teague, unfortunately had to go through that all last season, plus w/o a summer league of his own to make mistakes. So yes, these scubbs can be frustating when they cant give u an assist after a great pass. Oh, and one more thing, I think the reason Teague may have looked so bad this 2nd game was b/c he had that bad game-deciding TO the 1st game to linger with all next day. So again, I will give him these bad comments, and bad mistakes, as long as they stay in the summer league and not carry over into next season!
Josh
July 15th, 2010
3:12 pm
This is why the Atlanta Haws will continue to be nothing and never when a championship. Rick Sund needs to be fired and the ASG are the laughing stock of owners in the NBA. They do not care about their fans either. Lets boycott. I getting tired of the bull and the lies coming from the owners. Lets go Braves and Falcons. Who gives a crap about the Hawks anymore. They are not serious about winning a championship show why should I be serious about giving them my money? The Hawks are on the down and out and in a few years we will be back at the bottom of the NBA again.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 15th, 2010
3:14 pm
“Has there ever been a Hawks player with a ring on the roster?”
Tyronn Lue, Stephen Jackson.
The Real JC
July 15th, 2010
3:21 pm
@Truth-Serum’s post – Come on, Rockets and Blazers ahead of the Hawks? They didn’t make any off-season changes other than the draft (and neither have an immediate impact player) and we not only had a better regular-season record than both teams, but Blazers got knocked out in the first round and the Rockets didn’t even make the playoffs!
bigdave
July 15th, 2010
3:26 pm
anyone have the stream for tonights game..? it wont be on espn3
Jeff
July 15th, 2010
3:29 pm
We need to leave the team as it is now. Add- Aminu to the roster, sign Brad Miller and another guard. I would really like to get the hood as he has been called, Allen I. He only made $625,000 last year
2nd unit- 3 guard set
J.Crawford
J.Crawford
Allen I
B. Miller
Za Za
cp
July 15th, 2010
3:29 pm
Teague has one bad half in a summer league game and all I hear is how the sky is falling. Typical overreaction from Hawks fans. The kid will be alright. If he struggles we still have Bibby. I’m more concerned with getting Al and Josh some help down low. The pickings are slim and the Hawks don’t seem to be in a rush to add some size. If Collins or RandyMo is back I just cant take this team serious anymore.
cp
July 15th, 2010
3:30 pm
bigdave i have a link for tonight’s game. Its at 8:30 ill be back to post it before the game starts
The Real JC
July 15th, 2010
3:31 pm
@Josh – Down and out indicates that we lost a key player. We haven’t. Not sure if you’re familiar with structure of the NBA, but if you make it to the second round of the playoffs, you’re at very least one of the top 8 teams in the league.
After being slaughtered in the second round for the past two years, they have a new coach who recognizes and aims to fix the issues that plagued them in the playoffs. Jordan Crawford might actually be able to contribute in his first year and they still might add Shaq or another big-man free agent to clog the middle.
If you want down and out, go visit Minnesota, Sacramento, Toronto or the other team in LA.
cp
July 15th, 2010
3:31 pm
T/S do you have Woodrow in ya circle or top 5 or something. Dude is gone get over it. I don’t know which Woody nut hugger is worse, you or cdog.
The Real JC
July 15th, 2010
3:34 pm
@Truth – Sorry, any vitriol expressed was meant for Fox Sports, not you.
heartofdarkness
July 15th, 2010
3:34 pm
They are giving away money… for broken down NBA franchises.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/38262946
cp
July 15th, 2010
3:38 pm
here you go bigdave and whoever else wants to watch the game……http://atdhe.net/
Fundamentals
July 15th, 2010
3:44 pm
We need to get a magic potion and sign Tree and Kevin Willis in their prime for a real chance at a finals run. Anyone know 2 players with the rebounding tenacity of Willis and D of Tree?
Teague needs time to develop. If he can’t push the rock trade for someone who can or turn it over to Bibby in Feb. He needs a real shot. Give it to him or sign someone we can!
Fundamentals
July 15th, 2010
4:02 pm
I’m all for giving Teague, JC2 and Sy some more run. Still perplexed as to why Randmo can’t get it together. I just keep feeling like we need to take a chance on young hungry talent who at least gives it their all instead of old has beens who are just looking for a check for cheeseburgers when they ain’t hungry at all!
I wanted us to sign one of the D-League bangers last year instead of Mario. We should’ve tried a few out, but instead, Mario and no time for the scrubs or prospects for that matter.
Hopefully LD can develop a culture where effort and hard work are rewarded, not just letting folks play a role regardless of how good they are at it.
What are Bibby’s thoughts on LD’s system? Has he got it left in the tank to run the system? Does he think it’ll get him better looks? Will he return to scoring easily again? Woody provided no real offense, just isolations.
Fundamentals
July 15th, 2010
4:05 pm
BARNES TO HEAT OR CELTICS! Why not ATL!
cp
July 15th, 2010
4:10 pm
t/s you’re corny as hell homey. i cant take anything you say serious. you have no credibility. just stick to coming on here all day everyday making the same redundant point using the same stats and even making up stuff as you normally do to try and support your usually weak argument. your gimmick is old and tired. come up with something new
tony
July 15th, 2010
4:15 pm
I havn’t read one comment that talk about what this organization need to do to build a championship team. All I read is Teague need more time or Marvin William will get better. That’s why ASG are not seriously committed to building a championship team in ATlanta because they know the fans don’t care about winning championships. All you want is a NBA team and thats it!
jroc
July 15th, 2010
4:19 pm
Why the worries guys the hawks still have one the best teams in the nba.Next season they still will win around 50 games and Orlando will be on the decline if they don’t replace mr.choke Wince Carter.Miami will replace Clevland as a contender and Boston still is Boston and Chicago still is a notch below the hawks.This is how i rank the east at the end of next season.
1.Orlando
2.Miami
3.Hawks
4.Chicago
5.Boston
6.Milwaukee
7.Washington
8.New York
newkid
July 15th, 2010
4:27 pm
tony said: “I havn’t read one comment that talk about what this organization need to do to build a championship team.”
tony, it’s a bit long, but perhaps you should have a look at my 1:29 pm post.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 15th, 2010
4:27 pm
“I havn’t read one comment that talk about what this organization need to do to build a championship team. All I read is Teague need more time or Marvin William will get better”
Where have you been the last two months? Clearly not on this blog…
Fundamentals
July 15th, 2010
4:29 pm
Tony – I see it as what are we realistically going to get? We’ve gotta trade Marvin for something or pray diligently. Teague hasn’t really gotten the time on the court. He might just surprise everyone. Every year there are unexpected gems emerging even on good teams. Why can’t we get one every 5 years? Maybe Smoove, but outside of that who have we really tried to develop who wan’t a lottery pick? Heck, what did we do with 1/2 our lottery picks – squandered them or traded them for peanuts.
I’m starting to feel like a Clipper fan? Is that too much to say to make you feel better. All I want is the best they can provide and the kids we select to play 100%. If we’d do that we’d surprise alot of folks. Instead we set expectations and play to them. Last year was a prime example, which led to my prediction and thus dissappointment.
jroc
July 15th, 2010
4:30 pm
jc2 seems to have nice handle i would like to see him at the point
Fundamentals
July 15th, 2010
4:31 pm
Marvin has until Feb to impress me or I’ll be down on him for sure.
Hopefully LD’s system will involve folks to keep them motivated to play on both ends. That’s all we really need to do – engage our existing talent and use it to 75% capacity to get out of the 2nd round.
ryan
July 15th, 2010
4:31 pm
It looks like Shaq to the Hawks is more likely New York and Boston have no interest or Miami i think what the hold up is the players involved in the sign and trade.
Fundamentals
July 15th, 2010
4:33 pm
JC2 and Sy seem like real gems to polish. They might just be what we need. Can we send groceries and weight training equipment home with Gladyr?
jroc
July 15th, 2010
4:34 pm
Can you picture a motivated Josh Smith or Marvin man that would be some wishful thinking.I know its in those guys hopefully L.D. can bring it out.
Fundamentals
July 15th, 2010
4:35 pm
Ryan – I would only offer up Mo and maybe Bibby for Shaq, only because I want space for JC2 Sy and Teague to be forced into the lineup – regardless of how they pan out. We can adjust w/ trades or grow them up like normal teams do. Joe and Jamal can handle the guard slots in a pinch. Marvin is too much to offer for someone who won’t be a significant part of our future.
newkid
July 15th, 2010
4:35 pm
Wow, Warriors’ owner getting $450M for a franchise for which he paid $116M in 1995? Not sure what the IRR is on that, but sounds like pretty handsome appreciation. ASG, market could be ripe!
Fundamentals
July 15th, 2010
4:36 pm
Smith and Marvin tend to check out some nights which leads us downhill fast. We need them focussed and hungry 82 games this season. Adding the playoff games should be obvious, but did we really get that from either last year?
jroc
July 15th, 2010
4:42 pm
What makes me so mad at Smith is that the guy has enough talent in him to be a Kobe or Lebron.With a terrible jump shot or set shot whatever you want to call it. Alot of games the guy just didn’t seem focused.If this year he doesn’t change he got to get shipped out of here asap.
cp
July 15th, 2010
4:44 pm
Fundamentals they have already said they will send Sy back overseas for at least one more year so don’t expect to see him on the court this year. They just wanted him and Gladyr to get some experience.
bigdave
July 15th, 2010
4:52 pm
appreciated cp..
K-Dogg
July 15th, 2010
4:57 pm
Man im going to slam my head against a wall if we roll this same small a** team out their next year!! I understand being cheep if you dont have to spend but in this case since we over paied for Joe we have no choice but to pay a big and go over the Tax b/c without one we have “No; chance next year to win it all!! This is the worst b.c. we have a decent window to play for the divsion and maybe the chip but we can never make the right moves!! 1st it was not drafting a decent point and now we refuse to get a decent big to defnd Howard and Orlando!!! I like Marvin as a role player too but we have to get a true center and move AL to the 4 or we can forget it!!!!!!
K-Dogg
July 15th, 2010
4:58 pm
Man why cant we do right can anybody out their tell me???????
Michael Cunningham
July 15th, 2010
4:59 pm
@ Truth: “I can only agree that we both are capable of producing stats that support our points of view that Horford is not or is a defensive liability.”
i can produce more stats to support my argument than you can. and i don’t ignore those stats that don’t support my argument while making it. that’s my point.
K-Dogg
July 15th, 2010
5:01 pm
So i guess our record vs the Lakers and Magic over the past 3 years dont mean anything to our dumb a** GM and owners!! Come on guys either add a big and true beef our bring in a coach who is going to use the small front line we got and run the hell outta these teams like the Suns, Nuggets or Knicks!!!! This is basketball 101 now guys come on!!!!!
Melvin
July 15th, 2010
5:05 pm
I wouldn’t be surprise to see both Crawford’s in the back along with Joe at SF as a lineup that LD will use in his motion offense thru out the season. All three are good passers that can create their own shot….
jroc
July 15th, 2010
5:11 pm
This Hawks squad has so many interchangable parts that I see why L.D. doesn’t want to let Marvin go.Teage seems like he is going to be a big let down.Lets see how jc2 can handle the offense.
Melvin
July 15th, 2010
5:15 pm
K-Dogg,
Aren’t the Hawks 2-2 against the Lakers with each team winning on their home floor the last two years? As for the Magic, I agree.
Fundamentals
July 15th, 2010
5:18 pm
CP – they did say that, but if he’s an aggressive rangy perimiter defender that can play some point, plus he’s got length, why not push the issue. Seems everyone likes what they’ve seen. I hope he comes over maybe next year.
K-Dogg
July 15th, 2010
5:19 pm
i can see the Hawks winning close to 50 games again next year melvin going 7 in the 1st round and getting swept in the 2nd!!!
J from the A
July 15th, 2010
5:20 pm
To everyone b!tching about the ASG being “too cheap” or “moving too slow,” I just don’t get it.
Because of salary cap rules, after signing Joe, the most the Hawks can offer any one player is the MLE. But, of course, one of the problems with this is that after the MLE is used up, the Hawks can only sign players using the bi-annual exception (if they did not use the exception last year) or for minimum salaries … blah, blah, blah, right?
Well, the MLE plus the bi-annual plus a minimum salary exception would put the Hawks into the luxury tax. ASG said they were fine with going into the luxury tax for the right players …
The problem is that the ASG CANNOT offer more than the MLE, and the players that the Hawks might be willing to offer the full MLE to have either already signed contracts for more money or trying to hold out for contracts for more money.
So, this is not an “ASG being cheap or slow” issue. This is an “ASG having to follow the salary cap rules” issue, and unfortunately, the current market is making it hard to sign a difference maker for the MLE.
K-Dogg
July 15th, 2010
5:21 pm
Naw Melvin dog vs the magic, lakers and Cavs last year they siad we are like 4-32 dog i would look it up but right now im too busy trying to find a knife to slit my wrist in my Joe Johnson jersey!!!
K-Dogg
July 15th, 2010
5:27 pm
Maybe next year every time we player the lakers and magic Zaza can just use his big a** head to head butt Dwight and Bynum and after they slap the crap out of him and get tossed we can have a chance to beat those two teams!!!
Dr. Callemout
July 15th, 2010
5:32 pm
K-Dogg
You are a pathetic mess young man.You have threatened to bash your head open earlier and now you want to slit your wrist.There is more to life than the Hawks or Basketball young man. Go to your closest family member and give them a big hug and tell them you love them and thanks for being there. If this is how you feel about yourself son then your fathers sperm should not have fertelized your mothers egg. You should of been wiped off on some tissue or flushed down the toilet some where.Feel better about yourself son and make a difference in someones life.Son just do better.Peace and Love to everyone. I am out.
ant banks
July 15th, 2010
5:39 pm
there has been alot of discussion about larry drew’s offense. how potent it is supposed to be. how there is alot of movement. how there are screens post ups comin’ off passes, etc. if drew ran this 2nd string offense against woody’s offense in practice, if it was hella successful, why didn’t woody incorporate any of it? was drew blowin’ out woody or was it the other way?
can’t wait to see it though
K-Dogg
July 15th, 2010
5:45 pm
Naw Dr. Callemout those were all jokes but i guess you did not get that so you sent out a long a** e-mail for nothing. Im jsut tired of supporting a losing team esp one that has the peices in place to make a serious run and make my city pround.
KevinM
July 15th, 2010
5:49 pm
J from the A,
The point is not that the ASG is willing to spend near the cap, but the way they are handling the way they spend the money. That ‘we are willing to exceed the cap for the right players’ comment is lame. That is a built in excuse to continue to not pay the luxury tax.
We see how they have spend their money, and in most of our opinions, their spending habits has limited this team:
- M-Y contract for Marvin going into his RFA year.
- Bibby gets 3/18M
- Zaza gets 4/16M
For the latter 2, you want them to make an impact more than they have. Neither were a factor last playoffs, and throw Marvin in there as well.
Those 3 contracts per year are about 17M. That is what was expected to bring them back, but they have not improved over the previous year.
The JJ issue will get bigger if he gets off to a slow start. They take a huge promo risk by depending on him leading this team.
Since they have NEVER used the MLE they have, why gives anyone any indication that all of a sudden it’s going to be used and hearing that it’s not enough is a complete sham. Never has a group talked in circles like this management group, so it is best they say nothing.
The situation they are in, another 2nd round failure blows this whole team from attempting to make any profit. The fans of Atlanta aren’t going to mirror Utah and accept the same scenario each year. The options in Atlanta are much greater than Sacramento or Utah, so there will be backlash if they don’t compete with the top teams next year.
So far, they haven’t shown that they agree with the national media that they aren’t quitters. So far, they have done little this offseason and gotten less in return.
So, let’s head into ‘10-11 and see how the core responds to the wax job that Orlando gave them last year, while we reward all our core for a job well done.
tyger
July 15th, 2010
5:51 pm
We all have to be honest with ourselves…
1. Yes, ASG is broke, always has been…
2. No, they didn’t re-sign JJ to actually pay him, JJ will be moved shortly…
3. Yes, they had several chips and misplayed them all…
4. No, they are not paying luxury tax to actually compete…
5. Yes, we were destroyed by 20-30 ppg. in rd. 2…
6. Yes, it was embarrassing and humiliating…
7. No, we did not improve our roster…
8. Yes, everyone else did why didn’t we? see #1-#4…
7. No, Shaq is not coming for less than MLE, do you blame him…
8. Yes, Billy Knight told you so…
9. No, Teague is not the PG of the future…
10. Yes, Teague smells like fresh cow dung minus the flies…
.
K-Dogg
July 15th, 2010
5:51 pm
lollll probably Ant Banks! Im not going to comment on the new coach though until i see what changes he bring in but im going to go with him trying to bring in something new and if it does not work him going to Joe like Woody did to save his job. All coaches whos necks are on the line do it. They ride their star out the door but i wish him luck i just dont think we can take it to the next level with what we have unless we get out and run b/c we more athletic then any team in the L!!!
No Truth To Rumored Shaq/Marvin Deal | Soaring Down South | An Atlanta Hawks blog
July 15th, 2010
5:56 pm
[...] Cunningham comes to the rescue again. The Marvin for Shaq sign-and-trade appears to be a non-starter. The Hawks have consistently [...]
tony
July 15th, 2010
6:03 pm
Sorry newkid, but you didn’t mention championship in your post sir. jroc, I think JS is the best defensive player in the NBA but the guy is a horrible offensive player. I said he is a low IQ basketball player because he makes too many bonehead decisions on offense. Every time he makes a good play on defense he makes 2 bad plays on offense. Only if he would play the game the way Dennis Robman use to play(rebound/solid defense) I will like him better. Dennis let the offense come to him where as JS tries to do too much.
I agree with you, if JS doesn’t start making better decisions on offense I want him OUTTA HERE!
HoosierHawk
July 15th, 2010
6:23 pm
We have to make an ultimatum with Shaq. I’d say if he wants money, offer him 1 year 8 mil so we have lots of expiring contracts to work with next summer. If he wants years, say hes stuck with MLE. If not, DONT TAKE HIM. I’d rather have Kurt Thomas anyway. And if we do get Shaq, we better have Barnes lined up or I don’t like it.
OK
July 15th, 2010
6:25 pm
Michael Cunningham,
Please tell me you agree that we should take a SERIOUS look at Trey Gilder?
Gilder > Mo Evans (trade him please)
We don’t have to break the bank to find a nice SF when we have a diamond in the ruff on our summerleague roster.
PLEASE stop with this Matt Barnes nonsense. It’s making me queasey.
Trade Mike Bibby
That is all.
Gilder >/= Marvin
N.D.T.K.A.
July 15th, 2010
6:29 pm
Man, I really JC2’s game, if the kid learns to play some good defense could we perhaps whisper comparison’s to “Gary Payton”. Naw just kidding but kid is fearless with the “O”.
Someone said there is nothing wrong with Hawks offense. Are you crazy? Woody’s “Iso-Joe” was the problem on offense and defense. Joe standing around pounding the ball into the floor til the shot clock ran down while the others stood around was the problem last season. Stop getting stuck on stupid!!
JT and Duck need to show there wares under L.Drew, if they don’t perform move JT to the bench and ship the Duck out. Simple enough, but at least see what they can do under LD.
Sign Shaq, A.Ajinca, Kwame Brown, or any big you can get that will rebound and defend. At this rate, I would take the “Big Show” from WWE!! Just get a big!!!
OK
July 15th, 2010
6:31 pm
ONCE AGAIN, Gladyr wieghs MORE than Pape Sy and Jeff Teague. Also, he looks a lot bigger than he did when we drafted him. I’m also pretty sure that he broke his arm sometime last season or had some type of arm injury, so for him to be where he is fitness wise despite all of that is pretty good.
N.D.T.K.A.
July 15th, 2010
6:31 pm
I wonder how Hassan Whiteside or Solomon Alabi are doing in summer league action? Cheap big men to develop that we passed on and would of cost us nothing.
OK
July 15th, 2010
6:37 pm
On the teague sobject, I cannot beleive no one has taught him how to break a press. It’s simple really. The pressure may be great but as long as you follow the fundametal press-breaking mokes you should get by them with ease.
I also fault JC2 for not staying in the backcourt in case Teague ran into trouble (which he did) Too often he was already across the timeline by the 3pt line smh. I know Drew holds PG camps in the summertime so hopefully he will addrwess the issue personally. It’s somehing that every PG should’ve learned EARLY.
OK
July 15th, 2010
6:37 pm
*Subject
K-Dogg
July 15th, 2010
6:40 pm
Mannnnn N.D.T.K.A. you red my mind with that comment about those bigs we passed on in the draft for real!!! If we not going to pay for one which i understand at least we could have drafted one and took a chance i mean its not like 7′0’s fall to the late 1st and 2nd round all the time i love the Crawford pick i do but we should have got Whiteside in the 2nd round worst case and we bring in a free agent big cut ties with Morris or collins they have no upside what so ever other then giving us fouls!!!
MsDee
July 15th, 2010
6:40 pm
New blog is up!
OK
July 15th, 2010
6:41 pm
As far as Scrub big men go, Trading For Ryan Hollins is as low as my standards will go. NO lower than that. And he’s not that bad. If you’r suggesting anyone else who you KNOW is considred a scrub by the majority, then you obviously aren’t a Hawks fan. Why should we pick up trash? “Bean pole” Joe smith and “Hamburger Helper” Collins weren’t enough for you? I’m not even going to get started on RandMo. It’s just too pathetic at this point.
James
July 15th, 2010
6:41 pm
1) Signed Joe Johnson for over 120 million.
2) S & T Josh Chilldress for a 2nd round pick in 2012 and 3 million and a trade exception.
3) Refuse to use the only thing teams over the cap can use to get better.
= This organization doesn’t know what they are doing.
northcyde
July 15th, 2010
7:37 pm
What would be the economical impact of Shaq coming to the Hawks?
- Current season tix holders may be compelled to re-up for next season, seeing that they did try to make a move to improve the team. Who knows how many of them are holding back from renewing, based on what moves we make to improve the team in the offseason.
- A possible 1,000 uptick per game in attendance. And with all of the professional African-American females in ATL, they may account foe 80% of the increase.
- More national TV games, especially on the coveted TNT Thursday spot. I’m trying to remember how many TNT games we had last decade . . . 3? Shaq has potential “TV storylines” with 4 teams ( MIA, LAL, PHX, ORL ). I think we had 8 national TV games last year. With Shaq, that number could increase to 12 – 15 games. ( 3 – 4 more home national TV games )
- Because of all of the above, more celebrities will come to games for the TV exposure and to watch Shaq . More celebs and corpoate big wigs may even buy suites to the games.
will
July 15th, 2010
7:39 pm
Where is the excitement, for people to go out and buy hawks tickets for the upcoming season!!!
ASG and Sund, has done nothing to improve this team that was swepted in the playoffs two yrs in a row, and only won 2 out 15 gms on the road in the playoffs. These guys don’t even have a clue of how to build a championship team. Have not even picked up one FA, and don’t forget that they traded away their draft picks when they could have pick a big man, that could play this season, ie pittman-texas. This organization is pitful!! And then they wonder why the arena is not sold-out.
Truth-Serum
July 15th, 2010
9:16 pm
“i can produce more stats to support my argument than you can. and i don’t ignore those stats that don’t support my argument while making it. that’s my point.”
Actually Im not interested in supporting your argument, so your point is a no brainer, but if you are insinuating that you would win the argument because you can produce more data supporting your view than I can mine. I would not disagree with you. Many cases are won in court because of the preponderance of evidence. But I resign knowing that producing more stats than I produce doesnt validate truth. In fact it may obscure the truth. …
And no I dont agree, I dont see you as being objective when it comes to woodson, horford or teague. You are typical bubba-crewian.
Sautee
July 15th, 2010
9:23 pm
Poor T-s.
What would he do without windmills to tilt at?
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Robert
July 19th, 2010
9:20 am
the owners are pathetic.Sell the team to someone who cares about winning a championship.