Atlanta Hawks: Shaq and their summer struggles
Las Vegas–First the Shaq scuttlebutt, then the game. . .
The Marvin for Shaq sign-and-trade appears to be a non-starter. The Hawks have consistently said they like their core, and that includes Marvin. So they are not looking to move Marvin for Shaq when he’s playing under what they consider to be a reasonable contract for a starting 3 whom they still believe can blossom under L.D.
Shaq is pushing for the sign-and-trade because he wants to be paid above the mid-level exception–a person familiar with his thinking said Shaq wants something like $16 million for two years after seeing other free agent centers sign lucrative deals. Shaq also wants to start but it doesn’t look like he will get that or the money from Atlanta. In fact, after post-J.J. indications that the Hawks were willing to push their payroll above the luxury-tax threshold of $70.3 million, it’s becoming increasingly clear ASG wants to avoid paying the tax.
With their payroll at roughly $65 million, the Hawks aren’t likely to use the full mid-level exception of $5.8 million to add the minimum of three players they need to get to 13. So the challenge for GM Rick Sund is to add veteran impact players to the roster under those financial constraints. That means Brad Miller likely is out of Atlanta’s price range and they’ll have to wait and see which veteran centers are still around when the dust settles.
Unless Sund can somehow find an impact player at a bargain, Atlanta’s rotation in 2010-11 figures to look a lot like 2009-10. If that’s the case, Atlanta’s belief in its core group figures to be tested.
Spurs 89, Hawks 84
– This wasn’t a good effort for the Hawks. They got off to a slow start again and Lester Conner said he might change the lineup against Milwaukee tomorrow. Turnovers were the problem this time: seven in the first quarter, 15 at the half and 22 for the game. San Antonio recorded 17 steals, which is crazy even for Summer League.
– A rough outing for Teague, who had nine turnovers and once again rushed things at winning time. He just didn’t look all that into it at times, particularly when D-Leaguer Carldell “Squeaky” Johnson picked his pocket for a layup and blew by him for an assist on consecutive plays. “He didn’t take care of the ball and he didn’t run the team the way we’d like,” Conner said.
– It’s one thing for raw rookie Pape Sy to be bothered by ball pressure, another for Teague to look unnerved by it. “Just one of those games,” Teague said. “I think I am just going to start passing the ball up to the wings instead of bringing it up. It takes too long into the shot clock for to get the offense going . That’s how it’s going to be when I play with Joe and those guys, anyway.”
– In defense of Teague and the Hawks, they haven’t had much time to build any kind of cohesion. Conner said L.D.’s offense “might be too sophisticated for this group” because they keep abandoning the calls and freelancing. Then again, this wasn’t an opponent sending out NBAers like the Grizz did Monday. The Spurs sent out D-League free agents and led 52-36 at the half.
– The Hawks rallied again after halftime. They cut down on the turnovers and Teague, JC2 and Trey Gilder got going on offense. But the game got away from the Hawks when Teague jacked up a bricked 3-pointer, the Hawks fell asleep on D and allowed a James Gist dunk and then the Spurs got an offensive rebound on a missed free throw.
– It was another overall positive effort for Crawford., who scored 20 points while shooting 6 of 11. He didn’t draw many fouls at Xavier but earned seven free-throw attempts against San Antonio. Crawford spent some time at point guard and again showed good vision but also had a couple turnovers while forcing cross-court passes into traffic.
– Crawford’s talent is obvious. The Hawks just have to harness it. “He can score the basketball but he doesn’t know about shot selection yet,” Conner said. “That’s expected. We put him at point guard and they got into him.”
– Gilder looked pretty good on the wing. He’s got a slight build but he’s long, quick and smooth.
– The Hawks like Richard Hendrix’s physical game. He was strong on the block and also showed some pretty good footwork.
– After doing little against Memphis, RandMo came back with a strong effort.
– Sy was scratched with a sore right Achilles’. He said he injured it during the game Monday and most likely would sit out tomorrow vs. Milwaukee. James Augustine left the game due to a sprained ankle.
– I’m out, blog people.
MC
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334 comments Add your comment
jroc
July 15th, 2010
5:11 pm
This Hawks squad has so many interchangable parts that I see why L.D. doesn’t want to let Marvin go.Teage seems like he is going to be a big let down.Lets see how jc2 can handle the offense.
Melvin
July 15th, 2010
5:15 pm
K-Dogg,
Aren’t the Hawks 2-2 against the Lakers with each team winning on their home floor the last two years? As for the Magic, I agree.
Fundamentals
July 15th, 2010
5:18 pm
CP – they did say that, but if he’s an aggressive rangy perimiter defender that can play some point, plus he’s got length, why not push the issue. Seems everyone likes what they’ve seen. I hope he comes over maybe next year.
K-Dogg
July 15th, 2010
5:19 pm
i can see the Hawks winning close to 50 games again next year melvin going 7 in the 1st round and getting swept in the 2nd!!!
J from the A
July 15th, 2010
5:20 pm
To everyone b!tching about the ASG being “too cheap” or “moving too slow,” I just don’t get it.
Because of salary cap rules, after signing Joe, the most the Hawks can offer any one player is the MLE. But, of course, one of the problems with this is that after the MLE is used up, the Hawks can only sign players using the bi-annual exception (if they did not use the exception last year) or for minimum salaries … blah, blah, blah, right?
Well, the MLE plus the bi-annual plus a minimum salary exception would put the Hawks into the luxury tax. ASG said they were fine with going into the luxury tax for the right players …
The problem is that the ASG CANNOT offer more than the MLE, and the players that the Hawks might be willing to offer the full MLE to have either already signed contracts for more money or trying to hold out for contracts for more money.
So, this is not an “ASG being cheap or slow” issue. This is an “ASG having to follow the salary cap rules” issue, and unfortunately, the current market is making it hard to sign a difference maker for the MLE.
K-Dogg
July 15th, 2010
5:21 pm
Naw Melvin dog vs the magic, lakers and Cavs last year they siad we are like 4-32 dog i would look it up but right now im too busy trying to find a knife to slit my wrist in my Joe Johnson jersey!!!
K-Dogg
July 15th, 2010
5:27 pm
Maybe next year every time we player the lakers and magic Zaza can just use his big a** head to head butt Dwight and Bynum and after they slap the crap out of him and get tossed we can have a chance to beat those two teams!!!
Dr. Callemout
July 15th, 2010
5:32 pm
K-Dogg
You are a pathetic mess young man.You have threatened to bash your head open earlier and now you want to slit your wrist.There is more to life than the Hawks or Basketball young man. Go to your closest family member and give them a big hug and tell them you love them and thanks for being there. If this is how you feel about yourself son then your fathers sperm should not have fertelized your mothers egg. You should of been wiped off on some tissue or flushed down the toilet some where.Feel better about yourself son and make a difference in someones life.Son just do better.Peace and Love to everyone. I am out.
ant banks
July 15th, 2010
5:39 pm
there has been alot of discussion about larry drew’s offense. how potent it is supposed to be. how there is alot of movement. how there are screens post ups comin’ off passes, etc. if drew ran this 2nd string offense against woody’s offense in practice, if it was hella successful, why didn’t woody incorporate any of it? was drew blowin’ out woody or was it the other way?
can’t wait to see it though
K-Dogg
July 15th, 2010
5:45 pm
Naw Dr. Callemout those were all jokes but i guess you did not get that so you sent out a long a** e-mail for nothing. Im jsut tired of supporting a losing team esp one that has the peices in place to make a serious run and make my city pround.
KevinM
July 15th, 2010
5:49 pm
J from the A,
The point is not that the ASG is willing to spend near the cap, but the way they are handling the way they spend the money. That ‘we are willing to exceed the cap for the right players’ comment is lame. That is a built in excuse to continue to not pay the luxury tax.
We see how they have spend their money, and in most of our opinions, their spending habits has limited this team:
- M-Y contract for Marvin going into his RFA year.
- Bibby gets 3/18M
- Zaza gets 4/16M
For the latter 2, you want them to make an impact more than they have. Neither were a factor last playoffs, and throw Marvin in there as well.
Those 3 contracts per year are about 17M. That is what was expected to bring them back, but they have not improved over the previous year.
The JJ issue will get bigger if he gets off to a slow start. They take a huge promo risk by depending on him leading this team.
Since they have NEVER used the MLE they have, why gives anyone any indication that all of a sudden it’s going to be used and hearing that it’s not enough is a complete sham. Never has a group talked in circles like this management group, so it is best they say nothing.
The situation they are in, another 2nd round failure blows this whole team from attempting to make any profit. The fans of Atlanta aren’t going to mirror Utah and accept the same scenario each year. The options in Atlanta are much greater than Sacramento or Utah, so there will be backlash if they don’t compete with the top teams next year.
So far, they haven’t shown that they agree with the national media that they aren’t quitters. So far, they have done little this offseason and gotten less in return.
So, let’s head into ‘10-11 and see how the core responds to the wax job that Orlando gave them last year, while we reward all our core for a job well done.
tyger
July 15th, 2010
5:51 pm
We all have to be honest with ourselves…
1. Yes, ASG is broke, always has been…
2. No, they didn’t re-sign JJ to actually pay him, JJ will be moved shortly…
3. Yes, they had several chips and misplayed them all…
4. No, they are not paying luxury tax to actually compete…
5. Yes, we were destroyed by 20-30 ppg. in rd. 2…
6. Yes, it was embarrassing and humiliating…
7. No, we did not improve our roster…
8. Yes, everyone else did why didn’t we? see #1-#4…
7. No, Shaq is not coming for less than MLE, do you blame him…
8. Yes, Billy Knight told you so…
9. No, Teague is not the PG of the future…
10. Yes, Teague smells like fresh cow dung minus the flies…
.
K-Dogg
July 15th, 2010
5:51 pm
lollll probably Ant Banks! Im not going to comment on the new coach though until i see what changes he bring in but im going to go with him trying to bring in something new and if it does not work him going to Joe like Woody did to save his job. All coaches whos necks are on the line do it. They ride their star out the door but i wish him luck i just dont think we can take it to the next level with what we have unless we get out and run b/c we more athletic then any team in the L!!!
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[...] Cunningham comes to the rescue again. The Marvin for Shaq sign-and-trade appears to be a non-starter. The Hawks have consistently [...]
tony
July 15th, 2010
6:03 pm
Sorry newkid, but you didn’t mention championship in your post sir. jroc, I think JS is the best defensive player in the NBA but the guy is a horrible offensive player. I said he is a low IQ basketball player because he makes too many bonehead decisions on offense. Every time he makes a good play on defense he makes 2 bad plays on offense. Only if he would play the game the way Dennis Robman use to play(rebound/solid defense) I will like him better. Dennis let the offense come to him where as JS tries to do too much.
I agree with you, if JS doesn’t start making better decisions on offense I want him OUTTA HERE!
HoosierHawk
July 15th, 2010
6:23 pm
We have to make an ultimatum with Shaq. I’d say if he wants money, offer him 1 year 8 mil so we have lots of expiring contracts to work with next summer. If he wants years, say hes stuck with MLE. If not, DONT TAKE HIM. I’d rather have Kurt Thomas anyway. And if we do get Shaq, we better have Barnes lined up or I don’t like it.
OK
July 15th, 2010
6:25 pm
Michael Cunningham,
Please tell me you agree that we should take a SERIOUS look at Trey Gilder?
Gilder > Mo Evans (trade him please)
We don’t have to break the bank to find a nice SF when we have a diamond in the ruff on our summerleague roster.
PLEASE stop with this Matt Barnes nonsense. It’s making me queasey.
Trade Mike Bibby
That is all.
Gilder >/= Marvin
N.D.T.K.A.
July 15th, 2010
6:29 pm
Man, I really JC2’s game, if the kid learns to play some good defense could we perhaps whisper comparison’s to “Gary Payton”. Naw just kidding but kid is fearless with the “O”.
Someone said there is nothing wrong with Hawks offense. Are you crazy? Woody’s “Iso-Joe” was the problem on offense and defense. Joe standing around pounding the ball into the floor til the shot clock ran down while the others stood around was the problem last season. Stop getting stuck on stupid!!
JT and Duck need to show there wares under L.Drew, if they don’t perform move JT to the bench and ship the Duck out. Simple enough, but at least see what they can do under LD.
Sign Shaq, A.Ajinca, Kwame Brown, or any big you can get that will rebound and defend. At this rate, I would take the “Big Show” from WWE!! Just get a big!!!
OK
July 15th, 2010
6:31 pm
ONCE AGAIN, Gladyr wieghs MORE than Pape Sy and Jeff Teague. Also, he looks a lot bigger than he did when we drafted him. I’m also pretty sure that he broke his arm sometime last season or had some type of arm injury, so for him to be where he is fitness wise despite all of that is pretty good.
N.D.T.K.A.
July 15th, 2010
6:31 pm
I wonder how Hassan Whiteside or Solomon Alabi are doing in summer league action? Cheap big men to develop that we passed on and would of cost us nothing.
OK
July 15th, 2010
6:37 pm
On the teague sobject, I cannot beleive no one has taught him how to break a press. It’s simple really. The pressure may be great but as long as you follow the fundametal press-breaking mokes you should get by them with ease.
I also fault JC2 for not staying in the backcourt in case Teague ran into trouble (which he did) Too often he was already across the timeline by the 3pt line smh. I know Drew holds PG camps in the summertime so hopefully he will addrwess the issue personally. It’s somehing that every PG should’ve learned EARLY.
OK
July 15th, 2010
6:37 pm
*Subject
K-Dogg
July 15th, 2010
6:40 pm
Mannnnn N.D.T.K.A. you red my mind with that comment about those bigs we passed on in the draft for real!!! If we not going to pay for one which i understand at least we could have drafted one and took a chance i mean its not like 7′0’s fall to the late 1st and 2nd round all the time i love the Crawford pick i do but we should have got Whiteside in the 2nd round worst case and we bring in a free agent big cut ties with Morris or collins they have no upside what so ever other then giving us fouls!!!
MsDee
July 15th, 2010
6:40 pm
New blog is up!
OK
July 15th, 2010
6:41 pm
As far as Scrub big men go, Trading For Ryan Hollins is as low as my standards will go. NO lower than that. And he’s not that bad. If you’r suggesting anyone else who you KNOW is considred a scrub by the majority, then you obviously aren’t a Hawks fan. Why should we pick up trash? “Bean pole” Joe smith and “Hamburger Helper” Collins weren’t enough for you? I’m not even going to get started on RandMo. It’s just too pathetic at this point.
James
July 15th, 2010
6:41 pm
1) Signed Joe Johnson for over 120 million.
2) S & T Josh Chilldress for a 2nd round pick in 2012 and 3 million and a trade exception.
3) Refuse to use the only thing teams over the cap can use to get better.
= This organization doesn’t know what they are doing.
northcyde
July 15th, 2010
7:37 pm
What would be the economical impact of Shaq coming to the Hawks?
- Current season tix holders may be compelled to re-up for next season, seeing that they did try to make a move to improve the team. Who knows how many of them are holding back from renewing, based on what moves we make to improve the team in the offseason.
- A possible 1,000 uptick per game in attendance. And with all of the professional African-American females in ATL, they may account foe 80% of the increase.
- More national TV games, especially on the coveted TNT Thursday spot. I’m trying to remember how many TNT games we had last decade . . . 3? Shaq has potential “TV storylines” with 4 teams ( MIA, LAL, PHX, ORL ). I think we had 8 national TV games last year. With Shaq, that number could increase to 12 – 15 games. ( 3 – 4 more home national TV games )
- Because of all of the above, more celebrities will come to games for the TV exposure and to watch Shaq . More celebs and corpoate big wigs may even buy suites to the games.
will
July 15th, 2010
7:39 pm
Where is the excitement, for people to go out and buy hawks tickets for the upcoming season!!!
ASG and Sund, has done nothing to improve this team that was swepted in the playoffs two yrs in a row, and only won 2 out 15 gms on the road in the playoffs. These guys don’t even have a clue of how to build a championship team. Have not even picked up one FA, and don’t forget that they traded away their draft picks when they could have pick a big man, that could play this season, ie pittman-texas. This organization is pitful!! And then they wonder why the arena is not sold-out.
Truth-Serum
July 15th, 2010
9:16 pm
“i can produce more stats to support my argument than you can. and i don’t ignore those stats that don’t support my argument while making it. that’s my point.”
Actually Im not interested in supporting your argument, so your point is a no brainer, but if you are insinuating that you would win the argument because you can produce more data supporting your view than I can mine. I would not disagree with you. Many cases are won in court because of the preponderance of evidence. But I resign knowing that producing more stats than I produce doesnt validate truth. In fact it may obscure the truth. …
And no I dont agree, I dont see you as being objective when it comes to woodson, horford or teague. You are typical bubba-crewian.
Sautee
July 15th, 2010
9:23 pm
Poor T-s.
What would he do without windmills to tilt at?
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Robert
July 19th, 2010
9:20 am
the owners are pathetic.Sell the team to someone who cares about winning a championship.