Atlanta Hawks: Shaq and their summer struggles
Las Vegas–First the Shaq scuttlebutt, then the game. . .
The Marvin for Shaq sign-and-trade appears to be a non-starter. The Hawks have consistently said they like their core, and that includes Marvin. So they are not looking to move Marvin for Shaq when he’s playing under what they consider to be a reasonable contract for a starting 3 whom they still believe can blossom under L.D.
Shaq is pushing for the sign-and-trade because he wants to be paid above the mid-level exception–a person familiar with his thinking said Shaq wants something like $16 million for two years after seeing other free agent centers sign lucrative deals. Shaq also wants to start but it doesn’t look like he will get that or the money from Atlanta. In fact, after post-J.J. indications that the Hawks were willing to push their payroll above the luxury-tax threshold of $70.3 million, it’s becoming increasingly clear ASG wants to avoid paying the tax.
With their payroll at roughly $65 million, the Hawks aren’t likely to use the full mid-level exception of $5.8 million to add the minimum of three players they need to get to 13. So the challenge for GM Rick Sund is to add veteran impact players to the roster under those financial constraints. That means Brad Miller likely is out of Atlanta’s price range and they’ll have to wait and see which veteran centers are still around when the dust settles.
Unless Sund can somehow find an impact player at a bargain, Atlanta’s rotation in 2010-11 figures to look a lot like 2009-10. If that’s the case, Atlanta’s belief in its core group figures to be tested.
Spurs 89, Hawks 84
– This wasn’t a good effort for the Hawks. They got off to a slow start again and Lester Conner said he might change the lineup against Milwaukee tomorrow. Turnovers were the problem this time: seven in the first quarter, 15 at the half and 22 for the game. San Antonio recorded 17 steals, which is crazy even for Summer League.
– A rough outing for Teague, who had nine turnovers and once again rushed things at winning time. He just didn’t look all that into it at times, particularly when D-Leaguer Carldell “Squeaky” Johnson picked his pocket for a layup and blew by him for an assist on consecutive plays. “He didn’t take care of the ball and he didn’t run the team the way we’d like,” Conner said.
– It’s one thing for raw rookie Pape Sy to be bothered by ball pressure, another for Teague to look unnerved by it. “Just one of those games,” Teague said. “I think I am just going to start passing the ball up to the wings instead of bringing it up. It takes too long into the shot clock for to get the offense going . That’s how it’s going to be when I play with Joe and those guys, anyway.”
– In defense of Teague and the Hawks, they haven’t had much time to build any kind of cohesion. Conner said L.D.’s offense “might be too sophisticated for this group” because they keep abandoning the calls and freelancing. Then again, this wasn’t an opponent sending out NBAers like the Grizz did Monday. The Spurs sent out D-League free agents and led 52-36 at the half.
– The Hawks rallied again after halftime. They cut down on the turnovers and Teague, JC2 and Trey Gilder got going on offense. But the game got away from the Hawks when Teague jacked up a bricked 3-pointer, the Hawks fell asleep on D and allowed a James Gist dunk and then the Spurs got an offensive rebound on a missed free throw.
– It was another overall positive effort for Crawford., who scored 20 points while shooting 6 of 11. He didn’t draw many fouls at Xavier but earned seven free-throw attempts against San Antonio. Crawford spent some time at point guard and again showed good vision but also had a couple turnovers while forcing cross-court passes into traffic.
– Crawford’s talent is obvious. The Hawks just have to harness it. “He can score the basketball but he doesn’t know about shot selection yet,” Conner said. “That’s expected. We put him at point guard and they got into him.”
– Gilder looked pretty good on the wing. He’s got a slight build but he’s long, quick and smooth.
– The Hawks like Richard Hendrix’s physical game. He was strong on the block and also showed some pretty good footwork.
– After doing little against Memphis, RandMo came back with a strong effort.
– Sy was scratched with a sore right Achilles’. He said he injured it during the game Monday and most likely would sit out tomorrow vs. Milwaukee. James Augustine left the game due to a sprained ankle.
– I’m out, blog people.
MC
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
334 comments Add your comment
Samuel
July 15th, 2010
2:11 pm
Jeff,
Forget about AI. He’s too hood for this outfit.Plus, he doesn’t have any “UPSIDE”.
ToeKnee
July 15th, 2010
2:14 pm
11:10
[Comment From england4ever england4ever: ]
Tell us about that game last season when Nate R. was with the Knicks and they came to the ATL. Nate and you went wild that game. Was there any friendly trash talk going on as well? You guys dominated.
Thursday July 15, 2010 11:10 england4ever
11:11
Jamal Crawford:
We were stretching together before the game started and I told him he was going to win that night, and he didn’t believe me. To see what he did in that game after being out for a month, was one of the best games I’ve ever been a part of.
WTF JAMAL
ToeKnee
July 15th, 2010
2:16 pm
Jamal Crawford:
Mike Bibby and Josh Smith are the biggest pranksters I’ve ever been around with the exception of Nate Robinson. It’s the loosest team I’ve ever been on, by far.
MAYBE TOO LOOSE?
Grandad
July 15th, 2010
2:17 pm
Hawks summer league built just like reg. season team.
No Bigs.
Last eve couldn’t get a rebound. [especially when it counted]
Outscored / point in the paint / by double figures +.
Positive article on Teaguer & JC2 HoopsWorld.
Teaguer got no cred last eve for toughness.
(Iverson-esque) Now listen to what I’m saying.
Smallish guy gets beat up, keeps goin’ right @ ‘em.
Took a hard fall, didn’t miss a play. [made both FT's]
Really good FT shooter (maker)
Remember he challenged Thabeet & tried to dunk on ‘im.
The kid’s tough. [like Iverson] point made.
Couldn’t they find a Big ol’ scrapper to play summer ball?
Are they -[ASSG]-(Sund)-{LD}- completely averse to Bigs.
I’m not talkin’ about 6-7 guys, either.
Alex Ajinca = available.
Grandad
July 15th, 2010
2:17 pm
*point”s” in the paint*
Melvin
July 15th, 2010
2:18 pm
Samuel,
Did Ty Lue get a ring with the Lakers prior to joining the Hawks?
northcyde
July 15th, 2010
2:20 pm
Samuel
July 15th, 2010
1:55 pm
I’m trying to think. Has there ever been a Hawks player with a ring on the roster?
*********************************
Tyronn Lue ( Lakers ) and Speedy Claxton ( Spurs ) are the first two that immediately come to mind. Stephen Jackson ( Spurs ).
Sautee
July 15th, 2010
2:40 pm
Truth-serum said:
“We all agree 60% of the guys who try and score on horford in the paint succeed, And we all agree thats a high number.”
And M.C. replied: “you do know that’s not what 60% iFG means, right”
LMFAO
Well T-s, “Now You Know”!
heh heh.
bigdave
July 15th, 2010
2:40 pm
Melvin..
yep.. remember he was stepped over in a humiliating fashion game 1 vs AI’s 6′ers..
Rod from College Park
July 15th, 2010
2:44 pm
Matt Barnes, who started 56 games at small forward for the Magic last season, apparently has heavy interest from two of Orlando’s main East rivals: the Miami Heat and the Boston Celtics. Those with knowledge of the situation say Barnes is strongly considering the Heat or the Celtics, among several other teams. Orlando Sentinel
KevinM
July 15th, 2010
2:49 pm
The more we move forward, the more it looks like the cap is the limit here.
Saying that, the roster is as follows for now:
Al/Smoove/Marvin/JJ/Bibby
Teague/Mo/Zaza/JC1/JC2
So it sounds like we have 4 slots open and how much for those 4 slots?
dap01
July 15th, 2010
2:54 pm
I was speaking to the ASG last night and they seemed surprised that most team has tall people at the Center position.
MsDee
July 15th, 2010
2:58 pm
@northcyde “Summer league scrubs can’t frustrate him to the point in which he’s willing to give the ball up.”
Yes they can, esp when you are a 1st time ‘rookie’ in this situation yourself. I can see if he played the same identical way the 1st game, then I would be concern but this is ONLY the second game. And people need to realize that the reason JC2 can look soo poise his rookie summer league is b/c he hasnt had a coach named Woodson to kill ALL CONFIDENCE FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR. Teague, unfortunately had to go through that all last season, plus w/o a summer league of his own to make mistakes. So yes, these scubbs can be frustating when they cant give u an assist after a great pass. Oh, and one more thing, I think the reason Teague may have looked so bad this 2nd game was b/c he had that bad game-deciding TO the 1st game to linger with all next day. So again, I will give him these bad comments, and bad mistakes, as long as they stay in the summer league and not carry over into next season!
Josh
July 15th, 2010
3:12 pm
This is why the Atlanta Haws will continue to be nothing and never when a championship. Rick Sund needs to be fired and the ASG are the laughing stock of owners in the NBA. They do not care about their fans either. Lets boycott. I getting tired of the bull and the lies coming from the owners. Lets go Braves and Falcons. Who gives a crap about the Hawks anymore. They are not serious about winning a championship show why should I be serious about giving them my money? The Hawks are on the down and out and in a few years we will be back at the bottom of the NBA again.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 15th, 2010
3:14 pm
“Has there ever been a Hawks player with a ring on the roster?”
Tyronn Lue, Stephen Jackson.
The Real JC
July 15th, 2010
3:21 pm
@Truth-Serum’s post – Come on, Rockets and Blazers ahead of the Hawks? They didn’t make any off-season changes other than the draft (and neither have an immediate impact player) and we not only had a better regular-season record than both teams, but Blazers got knocked out in the first round and the Rockets didn’t even make the playoffs!
bigdave
July 15th, 2010
3:26 pm
anyone have the stream for tonights game..? it wont be on espn3
Jeff
July 15th, 2010
3:29 pm
We need to leave the team as it is now. Add- Aminu to the roster, sign Brad Miller and another guard. I would really like to get the hood as he has been called, Allen I. He only made $625,000 last year
2nd unit- 3 guard set
J.Crawford
J.Crawford
Allen I
B. Miller
Za Za
cp
July 15th, 2010
3:29 pm
Teague has one bad half in a summer league game and all I hear is how the sky is falling. Typical overreaction from Hawks fans. The kid will be alright. If he struggles we still have Bibby. I’m more concerned with getting Al and Josh some help down low. The pickings are slim and the Hawks don’t seem to be in a rush to add some size. If Collins or RandyMo is back I just cant take this team serious anymore.
cp
July 15th, 2010
3:30 pm
bigdave i have a link for tonight’s game. Its at 8:30 ill be back to post it before the game starts
The Real JC
July 15th, 2010
3:31 pm
@Josh – Down and out indicates that we lost a key player. We haven’t. Not sure if you’re familiar with structure of the NBA, but if you make it to the second round of the playoffs, you’re at very least one of the top 8 teams in the league.
After being slaughtered in the second round for the past two years, they have a new coach who recognizes and aims to fix the issues that plagued them in the playoffs. Jordan Crawford might actually be able to contribute in his first year and they still might add Shaq or another big-man free agent to clog the middle.
If you want down and out, go visit Minnesota, Sacramento, Toronto or the other team in LA.
cp
July 15th, 2010
3:31 pm
T/S do you have Woodrow in ya circle or top 5 or something. Dude is gone get over it. I don’t know which Woody nut hugger is worse, you or cdog.
The Real JC
July 15th, 2010
3:34 pm
@Truth – Sorry, any vitriol expressed was meant for Fox Sports, not you.
heartofdarkness
July 15th, 2010
3:34 pm
They are giving away money… for broken down NBA franchises.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/38262946
cp
July 15th, 2010
3:38 pm
here you go bigdave and whoever else wants to watch the game……http://atdhe.net/
Fundamentals
July 15th, 2010
3:44 pm
We need to get a magic potion and sign Tree and Kevin Willis in their prime for a real chance at a finals run. Anyone know 2 players with the rebounding tenacity of Willis and D of Tree?
Teague needs time to develop. If he can’t push the rock trade for someone who can or turn it over to Bibby in Feb. He needs a real shot. Give it to him or sign someone we can!
Fundamentals
July 15th, 2010
4:02 pm
I’m all for giving Teague, JC2 and Sy some more run. Still perplexed as to why Randmo can’t get it together. I just keep feeling like we need to take a chance on young hungry talent who at least gives it their all instead of old has beens who are just looking for a check for cheeseburgers when they ain’t hungry at all!
I wanted us to sign one of the D-League bangers last year instead of Mario. We should’ve tried a few out, but instead, Mario and no time for the scrubs or prospects for that matter.
Hopefully LD can develop a culture where effort and hard work are rewarded, not just letting folks play a role regardless of how good they are at it.
What are Bibby’s thoughts on LD’s system? Has he got it left in the tank to run the system? Does he think it’ll get him better looks? Will he return to scoring easily again? Woody provided no real offense, just isolations.
Fundamentals
July 15th, 2010
4:05 pm
BARNES TO HEAT OR CELTICS! Why not ATL!
cp
July 15th, 2010
4:10 pm
t/s you’re corny as hell homey. i cant take anything you say serious. you have no credibility. just stick to coming on here all day everyday making the same redundant point using the same stats and even making up stuff as you normally do to try and support your usually weak argument. your gimmick is old and tired. come up with something new
tony
July 15th, 2010
4:15 pm
I havn’t read one comment that talk about what this organization need to do to build a championship team. All I read is Teague need more time or Marvin William will get better. That’s why ASG are not seriously committed to building a championship team in ATlanta because they know the fans don’t care about winning championships. All you want is a NBA team and thats it!
jroc
July 15th, 2010
4:19 pm
Why the worries guys the hawks still have one the best teams in the nba.Next season they still will win around 50 games and Orlando will be on the decline if they don’t replace mr.choke Wince Carter.Miami will replace Clevland as a contender and Boston still is Boston and Chicago still is a notch below the hawks.This is how i rank the east at the end of next season.
1.Orlando
2.Miami
3.Hawks
4.Chicago
5.Boston
6.Milwaukee
7.Washington
8.New York
newkid
July 15th, 2010
4:27 pm
tony said: “I havn’t read one comment that talk about what this organization need to do to build a championship team.”
tony, it’s a bit long, but perhaps you should have a look at my 1:29 pm post.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 15th, 2010
4:27 pm
“I havn’t read one comment that talk about what this organization need to do to build a championship team. All I read is Teague need more time or Marvin William will get better”
Where have you been the last two months? Clearly not on this blog…
Fundamentals
July 15th, 2010
4:29 pm
Tony – I see it as what are we realistically going to get? We’ve gotta trade Marvin for something or pray diligently. Teague hasn’t really gotten the time on the court. He might just surprise everyone. Every year there are unexpected gems emerging even on good teams. Why can’t we get one every 5 years? Maybe Smoove, but outside of that who have we really tried to develop who wan’t a lottery pick? Heck, what did we do with 1/2 our lottery picks – squandered them or traded them for peanuts.
I’m starting to feel like a Clipper fan? Is that too much to say to make you feel better. All I want is the best they can provide and the kids we select to play 100%. If we’d do that we’d surprise alot of folks. Instead we set expectations and play to them. Last year was a prime example, which led to my prediction and thus dissappointment.
jroc
July 15th, 2010
4:30 pm
jc2 seems to have nice handle i would like to see him at the point
Fundamentals
July 15th, 2010
4:31 pm
Marvin has until Feb to impress me or I’ll be down on him for sure.
Hopefully LD’s system will involve folks to keep them motivated to play on both ends. That’s all we really need to do – engage our existing talent and use it to 75% capacity to get out of the 2nd round.
ryan
July 15th, 2010
4:31 pm
It looks like Shaq to the Hawks is more likely New York and Boston have no interest or Miami i think what the hold up is the players involved in the sign and trade.
Fundamentals
July 15th, 2010
4:33 pm
JC2 and Sy seem like real gems to polish. They might just be what we need. Can we send groceries and weight training equipment home with Gladyr?
jroc
July 15th, 2010
4:34 pm
Can you picture a motivated Josh Smith or Marvin man that would be some wishful thinking.I know its in those guys hopefully L.D. can bring it out.
Fundamentals
July 15th, 2010
4:35 pm
Ryan – I would only offer up Mo and maybe Bibby for Shaq, only because I want space for JC2 Sy and Teague to be forced into the lineup – regardless of how they pan out. We can adjust w/ trades or grow them up like normal teams do. Joe and Jamal can handle the guard slots in a pinch. Marvin is too much to offer for someone who won’t be a significant part of our future.
newkid
July 15th, 2010
4:35 pm
Wow, Warriors’ owner getting $450M for a franchise for which he paid $116M in 1995? Not sure what the IRR is on that, but sounds like pretty handsome appreciation. ASG, market could be ripe!
Fundamentals
July 15th, 2010
4:36 pm
Smith and Marvin tend to check out some nights which leads us downhill fast. We need them focussed and hungry 82 games this season. Adding the playoff games should be obvious, but did we really get that from either last year?
jroc
July 15th, 2010
4:42 pm
What makes me so mad at Smith is that the guy has enough talent in him to be a Kobe or Lebron.With a terrible jump shot or set shot whatever you want to call it. Alot of games the guy just didn’t seem focused.If this year he doesn’t change he got to get shipped out of here asap.
cp
July 15th, 2010
4:44 pm
Fundamentals they have already said they will send Sy back overseas for at least one more year so don’t expect to see him on the court this year. They just wanted him and Gladyr to get some experience.
bigdave
July 15th, 2010
4:52 pm
appreciated cp..
K-Dogg
July 15th, 2010
4:57 pm
Man im going to slam my head against a wall if we roll this same small a** team out their next year!! I understand being cheep if you dont have to spend but in this case since we over paied for Joe we have no choice but to pay a big and go over the Tax b/c without one we have “No; chance next year to win it all!! This is the worst b.c. we have a decent window to play for the divsion and maybe the chip but we can never make the right moves!! 1st it was not drafting a decent point and now we refuse to get a decent big to defnd Howard and Orlando!!! I like Marvin as a role player too but we have to get a true center and move AL to the 4 or we can forget it!!!!!!
K-Dogg
July 15th, 2010
4:58 pm
Man why cant we do right can anybody out their tell me???????
Michael Cunningham
July 15th, 2010
4:59 pm
@ Truth: “I can only agree that we both are capable of producing stats that support our points of view that Horford is not or is a defensive liability.”
i can produce more stats to support my argument than you can. and i don’t ignore those stats that don’t support my argument while making it. that’s my point.
K-Dogg
July 15th, 2010
5:01 pm
So i guess our record vs the Lakers and Magic over the past 3 years dont mean anything to our dumb a** GM and owners!! Come on guys either add a big and true beef our bring in a coach who is going to use the small front line we got and run the hell outta these teams like the Suns, Nuggets or Knicks!!!! This is basketball 101 now guys come on!!!!!
Melvin
July 15th, 2010
5:05 pm
I wouldn’t be surprise to see both Crawford’s in the back along with Joe at SF as a lineup that LD will use in his motion offense thru out the season. All three are good passers that can create their own shot….