Atlanta Hawks: Shaq and their summer struggles
Las Vegas–First the Shaq scuttlebutt, then the game. . .
The Marvin for Shaq sign-and-trade appears to be a non-starter. The Hawks have consistently said they like their core, and that includes Marvin. So they are not looking to move Marvin for Shaq when he’s playing under what they consider to be a reasonable contract for a starting 3 whom they still believe can blossom under L.D.
Shaq is pushing for the sign-and-trade because he wants to be paid above the mid-level exception–a person familiar with his thinking said Shaq wants something like $16 million for two years after seeing other free agent centers sign lucrative deals. Shaq also wants to start but it doesn’t look like he will get that or the money from Atlanta. In fact, after post-J.J. indications that the Hawks were willing to push their payroll above the luxury-tax threshold of $70.3 million, it’s becoming increasingly clear ASG wants to avoid paying the tax.
With their payroll at roughly $65 million, the Hawks aren’t likely to use the full mid-level exception of $5.8 million to add the minimum of three players they need to get to 13. So the challenge for GM Rick Sund is to add veteran impact players to the roster under those financial constraints. That means Brad Miller likely is out of Atlanta’s price range and they’ll have to wait and see which veteran centers are still around when the dust settles.
Unless Sund can somehow find an impact player at a bargain, Atlanta’s rotation in 2010-11 figures to look a lot like 2009-10. If that’s the case, Atlanta’s belief in its core group figures to be tested.
Spurs 89, Hawks 84
– This wasn’t a good effort for the Hawks. They got off to a slow start again and Lester Conner said he might change the lineup against Milwaukee tomorrow. Turnovers were the problem this time: seven in the first quarter, 15 at the half and 22 for the game. San Antonio recorded 17 steals, which is crazy even for Summer League.
– A rough outing for Teague, who had nine turnovers and once again rushed things at winning time. He just didn’t look all that into it at times, particularly when D-Leaguer Carldell “Squeaky” Johnson picked his pocket for a layup and blew by him for an assist on consecutive plays. “He didn’t take care of the ball and he didn’t run the team the way we’d like,” Conner said.
– It’s one thing for raw rookie Pape Sy to be bothered by ball pressure, another for Teague to look unnerved by it. “Just one of those games,” Teague said. “I think I am just going to start passing the ball up to the wings instead of bringing it up. It takes too long into the shot clock for to get the offense going . That’s how it’s going to be when I play with Joe and those guys, anyway.”
– In defense of Teague and the Hawks, they haven’t had much time to build any kind of cohesion. Conner said L.D.’s offense “might be too sophisticated for this group” because they keep abandoning the calls and freelancing. Then again, this wasn’t an opponent sending out NBAers like the Grizz did Monday. The Spurs sent out D-League free agents and led 52-36 at the half.
– The Hawks rallied again after halftime. They cut down on the turnovers and Teague, JC2 and Trey Gilder got going on offense. But the game got away from the Hawks when Teague jacked up a bricked 3-pointer, the Hawks fell asleep on D and allowed a James Gist dunk and then the Spurs got an offensive rebound on a missed free throw.
– It was another overall positive effort for Crawford., who scored 20 points while shooting 6 of 11. He didn’t draw many fouls at Xavier but earned seven free-throw attempts against San Antonio. Crawford spent some time at point guard and again showed good vision but also had a couple turnovers while forcing cross-court passes into traffic.
– Crawford’s talent is obvious. The Hawks just have to harness it. “He can score the basketball but he doesn’t know about shot selection yet,” Conner said. “That’s expected. We put him at point guard and they got into him.”
– Gilder looked pretty good on the wing. He’s got a slight build but he’s long, quick and smooth.
– The Hawks like Richard Hendrix’s physical game. He was strong on the block and also showed some pretty good footwork.
– After doing little against Memphis, RandMo came back with a strong effort.
– Sy was scratched with a sore right Achilles’. He said he injured it during the game Monday and most likely would sit out tomorrow vs. Milwaukee. James Augustine left the game due to a sprained ankle.
– I’m out, blog people.
MC
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334 comments Add your comment
MsDee
July 15th, 2010
12:59 am
Naw..say it isn’t so!
♥Mz. Hawkdafied♥
July 15th, 2010
1:00 am
Now is Teague gonna be let loose or what? I thought Teague was gonna have the opportunity to play through his mistakes in summer league. He needs to see what works best for him in running the point. Not what works for everybody else. Teague can run the point, he just has to find his niche and what better time to start then right now in summer league.
Rev in Tampa
July 15th, 2010
1:00 am
Najeh, still not seeing Joe at SF
Najeh Davenpoop
July 15th, 2010
1:02 am
“2nd of all, as far as Im concern, this IS Teague’s rookie season all over again cause he played little to no min all season.”
Sadly, this is the truth.
TruthSeeker
July 15th, 2010
1:03 am
Couldn’t agree more, Najeh. Sund is planning to retire in the next couple of years and he looks like he’s already mailed it in at this point.
I haven’t agree with all the moves Frank Wren has made with the Braves, but he’s been highly proactive and it’s paying off. Sund is the least active GM I’ve ever seen. I’ve never seen someone so happy to maintain the status quo, which is really inexplicable considering that the Hawks are not far away from being elite. While they’re clearly not on the level of the Lakers or Magic, a couple of shrewd moves could get them there. But Sund doesn’t do a damn thing.
Michael Cunningham
July 15th, 2010
1:04 am
@ Melvin: “Do the Hawks consider Bibby, ZaZa and Mo as part of the core?”
i would say no.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 15th, 2010
1:05 am
“Can somebody please explain to me why SUND STILL HAS A JOB?”
I wondered that when the Hawks hired him. Somehow, in every sports league, mediocre retreads like Sund continue to find a way to get hired by mediocre teams, while innovative and creative teams find young guys like Sam Presti who can take them to the next level.
Look who the Nets just hired as GM. LMAO
Michael Cunningham
July 15th, 2010
1:07 am
@Truth: “Mike C dont you sleep dude?”
vaca starts Friday. ain’t gonna lie and say i’m not looking forward to it.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 15th, 2010
1:07 am
“I haven’t agree with all the moves Frank Wren has made with the Braves, but he’s been highly proactive and it’s paying off. Sund is the least active GM I’ve ever seen. I’ve never seen someone so happy to maintain the status quo”
I wasn’t a big Frank Wren fan when he first replaced Schuerholz, and moves like giving big money to Lowe and Kawakami and swapping Vazquez for Melky Cabrera weren’t exactly making me feel better about him, but like you say, at least he tried SOMETHING. Some of it worked, some of it didn’t, and who knows how this Escobar trade will turn out, but he has taken calculated risks and built a contender.
I think the general Hawks fan base would be a lot happier if Sund tried and failed than if he sits on his azz and does nothing.
♥Mz. Hawkdafied♥
July 15th, 2010
1:08 am
So MC, when did Bibby become not a part of the core? For clarity’s sake, who is the core again?
Najeh Davenpoop
July 15th, 2010
1:08 am
“1) Signed JJ for over 120 million
2) S &T Chills for a 2nd round pick in 2012 and 3 million TPE
3) Refuse to use the only thing teams over the cap can use to get better.”
Don’t forget trading the #31 pick for a couple of months worth of electric bills.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 15th, 2010
1:11 am
And from a fiscal standpoint, how exactly do the Hawks lose if they bring in Shaq and it doesn’t work out? Worst case scenario, his negative impact in the locker room outweighs his positive impact on the court, he boosts ticket sales anyway, and the Hawks trade him to some front runner team for whatever they can get. What’s so bad about that? The DASG probably comes out on top anyway with Shaq bringing in extra fans.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 15th, 2010
1:12 am
If they are at $65 million now, and using the full mid-level pushes them $0.6 million into luxury tax territory, they are basically saying $5.8 million is acceptable for a mid level guy but $7 million is not. What are they going to do with that extra $1.2 million? Isn’t that the whole point of trading the #31 pick?
♥Mz. Hawkdafied♥
July 15th, 2010
1:14 am
Truth Serum, there’s is a lot of hate and downright ugliness on this blog. So the little heart thingies are my way of dropping some love on here.
Wanna drop a little love too, just hit the alt key and the number 3 key over on your right at the same time. Oh yeah thanks for the link and info on the rankings.
Rev in Tampa
July 15th, 2010
1:14 am
Najeh, your reasoning is sound.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 15th, 2010
1:15 am
“Najeh, still not seeing Joe at SF”
Well, he doesn’t have the quickness to go one-on-one against opposing shooting guards and get to the hoop; we’ve already seen this. If you put another shooter on the floor at SG and let him go up against SFs, presumably he won’t be at as big of a disadvantage when it comes to quickness, and it will help him get to the hoop and to the free throw line easier. Spreading the floor will also allow Teague to do what he does best, which is drive to the hoop and get to the line.
Of course, if Marvin hits the gym and becomes the 38%+ 3-point shooter he should have been last year, this is all a moot point. Let’s see if he cares enough about improving to do this.
Michael Cunningham
July 15th, 2010
1:16 am
@ Mz. Hawk: “So MC, when did Bibby become not a part of the core? For clarity’s sake, who is the core again?”
ha . . . about the time the Hawks re-signed him and then saw him fall off? sometimes it seems like the “core” depends on who you talk to and when. the obvious guys are JJ, Smoove, Al, JC. Marv is probably in there but a notch below those guys. i’d say that about covers it.
hawks2010-2011
July 15th, 2010
1:16 am
how about eddy curry?
Najeh Davenpoop
July 15th, 2010
1:18 am
“At this point, Felton would be a better candidate for the Mid Level exception than Shaq”
Felton signed with the Knicks about a week ago.
drmaryb
July 15th, 2010
1:20 am
Gilder-Ator!
I like it … I like it! This CAT is smooth! Gilder looks like a poor man’s Tayshaun Prince – Sign him up!
Hendrix is an active banger – Sign him up!
Ishmael Smith on Houston’s squad – looks like a steal at the PG. Great handles and super quick with great shooting – Sign him up!
Kidnap Collins and get him in shape – more importantly – USE HIM!
Bargain Basement Shopping! We’ve been Window Shopping in the FA Store – Cauz’ we ain’t got no money – just Food-Stamps and Government Cheese!
Rev in Tampa
July 15th, 2010
1:23 am
“Najeh, still not seeing Joe at SF”
But JJ’s game does not seem to be focused on driving hard in the paint. He is more finesse and jumpshots. But he can easily post up smaller SGs. And on defense his height helps him defend the SG’s from the outside. Plus we will lose rebounding with JJ at SF.
♥Mz. Hawkdafied♥
July 15th, 2010
1:25 am
Okay, thanks much for clearing that up for me MC.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 15th, 2010
1:25 am
The Hawks’ prospects to improve on last season depend on three things: 1. Teague being an improvement on Bibby (which I still think will be the case despite his mediocre start to summer league), 2. Drew being an improvement on Woody (all signs are positive so far but let’s see what happens when the season starts), and 3. Marvin, Josh, and Al all improving on last season (likely for Al, possible for Josh, doubtful for Marvin).
And the thing is, even if ALL THREE of these things happen, they don’t have the personnel to guard Dwight Howard for a 7 game series — or, for that matter, the personnel to guard LeBron and D-Wade for a 7 game series.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 15th, 2010
1:28 am
“he can easily post up smaller SGs”
I would like to see him actually do this. Maybe in Drew’s offense he will get that chance.
“Plus we will lose rebounding with JJ at SF.”
Not if they bring in Shaq, or any other good rebounding true center. Marvin gets a couple more boards than Joe per game, but it’s not like he gets a ton of boards in traffic.
“And on defense his height helps him defend the SG’s from the outside.”
This is true, but any suggestion of moving Joe to SF by me is predicated on the Hawks signing a SG who can shoot 3’s and stretch the defense. Raja Bell would have been ideal in this spot, but he signed a (very affordable) deal with the Jazz already. I am not in favor of moving Joe to SF and starting Jamal, like many people have suggested.
Rev in Tampa
July 15th, 2010
1:35 am
Najeh, thanks for you thougths.
Grandad
July 15th, 2010
1:55 am
Gilder can’t guard anybody.
Because he’s long & lean he looks the part.
He let’s his man go by so he can attemt to block his shot.
He scored 15 but he traded baskets.
His man goes by him just like Gladyr.
Gilder gets in a good stance & that’s about all there is;
until,
he tries to block his shot from behind.
6 fouls tonite. Only 2 def boards.
* -4 [+/-]
* Hendrix +8 [+/-]
I will say…..no-one, absolutely no-one rebounded.[especially / def boards]
One more item about Gilder good FT shooter / had trouble finishing.
11 of his 15 pts. came @ the line.
True Atlanta Fan
July 15th, 2010
1:55 am
Honestly at this point I think the hawks (if they really wanted to) could still pull off a big move but by way of sign and trade. Anthony Tolliver seems to be interested in the hawks and if we are willing to trade Marvin, Bibby maybe a first round pick I say ASG stop sleeping and make a move for Monta Ellis as well. Its a long shot but it is something that will address both of our needs as well as get Hawks fans excited for the next season. But again the question depends on if they REALLY want to.
I don’t know about you guys but I have had ASG call me a total of 5 times this summer trying to sell me season tickets at like 8 am. I think they are a little worried about ticket sales to say the least.
drmaryb
July 15th, 2010
2:02 am
YMCA – Is now called the “Y”
BigDave they changed their name to the “Y”.
You know the Young Men Christian Association gotta’ be – “Keepin’ IT Real” now! LOL!
Ms.Dee?
I feel you baby-gurl! We gotta show these fellas how to shop at the Piggly Wiggly – How To: fill up two carts with meat for about 50 Bucks!
Gurl, we so broke – we gotta put our Cheerios on Lay-A-Way!
We gotta teach the ASG how to feed 5 kids cereal with only one bowl of milk:
1st – The 4 older kids eat first, with FORKS and pass the bowl of milk down the table to the baby – Who, gets to use a SPOON, so he can get every drop!
The ASG trying to run two teams and they can’t even run one!
MsDee
July 15th, 2010
2:02 am
They betta get Shaq than, ‘True Atlanta Fan’, if thats the case..they need to make up that mula they gave JJ!!
SteveW
July 15th, 2010
2:07 am
So we have a little over 5m to pay 3 guys? ASG needs to spend the 3m they promised on draft day. We’re probably looking at Kurt Thomas, Anthony Tolliver or Kwame and Aminu. Is this any better than Joe Smith, Jason Collins, and Rand Mo?
SteveW
July 15th, 2010
2:12 am
We were the only playoff team of 16 that was not in luxury tax territory last year, is that correct? Lowest salaried team amongst all playoff teams – come on ASG, get us a couple more big bodies,and another PG while your at it. Shaq, Matt Barnes, and maybe Rafer Alston sound good to me.
Grandad
July 15th, 2010
2:19 am
@ The ASG:
If this is it.
Sold # 31.
Aquired TPE for Childress. [for what reason]
Pape Sy & Gladyr / back to Europe.
Then – How – Why – Do you even want to own a team?
You would be well served if the arena was empty every game next yr.
Every game should look like Thomas & Mack Center did tonite.
*(roughly 50 people)
You guys don’t deserve to own a team.
Dan Gilbert & Mark Cuban may be Jack-asses but they are:
(1) passionate Jack-asses
(2) Jack-asses that want to win
(3) Jack-asses that care about their fans.
—–>ASG ~~~ You don’t even care enough to be a Jack-ass<—–
Grandad
July 15th, 2010
2:22 am
*Jack-asses* as opposed to “a” Jack-ass, [as in one]
MaxxHawk
July 15th, 2010
2:25 am
It’s a shame that we have an ownership group in gereral, but especially one who is not commited to winning, but rather commited to profits and cutting costs. I can’t believe we haven’t gone after any Center. If we don’t get Shaq, it’s hard for me, the most devoted of lifelong hawks fans, to have much optimism. Especially when every other team in the East is signing Big men left and right. This is really mind-boggling, both our frontcourt starters have openly asked for help downlow to deal with Howard and now Big Z and Bosh. Marvin Williams is such a bust, he is not a good player, he never takes over or makes any significant impact, cant create his own shot, has no hops, no Basketball IQ, and when we have the opportunity to move him for a piece we desperately need we wont because we for some reason think he is going to come around one day. Every year is supposed to be the year he starts making an impact and dominating, but it never happens.In fact, he even took steps back last year. He has got to go, and if we don’t get Shaq, the only answer left to our problems down low, then why even bother wq\athcing, we will certainly get drubbed and embarassed by Orlando and Miami. And we pay a above average player Michael Jordan money. Just sad, man. And by the way, Teague is playing like he doesn’t care and is gettig shown up in summer league by scrubs. He better play like he wants it, Jordan C. plays like he wants it, Teague doesn’t seem too interested in summer league, and he is playing half-assed and it is embarassing. He better dominate and play hard next game, or what’s the point? We might as well just have practice at the facility instead of summer league
cp
July 15th, 2010
2:34 am
I see the blog has eaten both my post. Im giving up this morning just like this front office has.
MaxxHawk
July 15th, 2010
2:40 am
I mean we can’t get a deal done with Portland for Camby or Pryzbilla or somebody? They have a bunch of Centers on their roster and are looking to trade everyone except Oden and Roy. Sund wants to wait until he can get Kwame Brown at a discounted price. I mean if we bring the same team back we wilL finish 6th in the East, this is a JOKE! TRADE MARVIN FOR SHAQ NOW!!
N-Trigue
July 15th, 2010
2:43 am
Mc
Is it any chance that we go after Scola from Houston?
ClassicHawks
July 15th, 2010
2:54 am
All Im Going to Say Is Be Patient With What The Hawks Are Doing. Shaq Has Not SIgned With Anyone Yet, Because He Is Asking For Too Much Money. I Think He Will Sign For The Mid-Level Once He Figures Out That Is What The Market Is For Him. The Only Way He Gets Eight Million Is If He Goes Over To Europe. The Hawks Should NEVER In 100 Years Trade Marvin Williams For A Old Ass Piece Like Shaq!! Now The Trade Wren Made Today Made Hella Sense! You Give Up Great Potential Talent For Equal Talent, or In My Book AG Is Better Talent Than Escobar Right Now, To Win It All. If We Traded Marvin For Shaq Head Up, We Would Still Not Be A Championship Caliber Team. If We Give Shaq The Mid-Level and If We Trade Marvin and Someone Else and Get a Star Caliber Player In His Prime Than We Are In The Championship Caliber Realm. Let This Thing Play Completely Out Before You Guys Go Crazy!
Worst Case Scenario Is That We Go Into The Season With The Same Team and They Play The Same Way. We Have Trades During The Season, and Trust Me We Have Enough Pieces On This Team That Can Be Traded For a Chris Paul or a Carmelo Anthony. So Please Be Calm and Just Wait To See What Sund is Gonna Do Before Completely Jumping The GUN! We Still Have A 50 Win Ball Club and our core is Still Super Young. Understand That!
Dan's Dickau
July 15th, 2010
3:16 am
Trading Marvin for Shaq would have been very stupid.
I’m worried about point guard. We have an All-Star center, but our point guards stink.
Can ya’ll please stop with the Bibby/Pachulia/Evans for (fill-in-the-blank). Nobody wants those clowns.
Grandad
July 15th, 2010
3:30 am
List of cheap help for the Jack-AS[S]G -OR- Ideas for frugality.
*Trade – Zaza to NJ for Brian Zoubek, save $3.5 mil [use TPE]
*Trade – all our 2nd round draft picks to Ind. for Josh McRoberts.
*Sign Steve Novak – I don’t reckon anybody signed him yet.
*Sign Cartier Martin – cool name.
*Sign Oleksiy Pecherov – his name makes me laugh.
*Pick up Josh Powell – isn’t he a local fellow? [U-FA / I think]
*Coax Kevin Ollie out of retirement (same age as Shaq.
*And lastly – trade next years #1 draft pick for **Greg Stiemsma.
** Never heard of him. Can’t say his name. 6-11, 260
drmaryb
July 15th, 2010
3:33 am
ASG!
You Lie!
(Like that heckler said at Obama’s State of The Union Address)
You got to – “Pay – to – Play!”
(Like Blagoiavich – Governer of Chicago)
Ms. Dee
They got possibly – The STEAL of The Draft! Craw-Daddy &
(almost lost him by moving down three spots to save a few nickels)
They CHEAP – like Polyester!
Grandad
July 15th, 2010
3:34 am
***Greg Stiemsma is on the T-Wolves roster***
Grandad
July 15th, 2010
3:37 am
Mary Ellen, what are you doin’ up at this hour.
I’m gonna have to spank you & send you to bed w/o your supper.
drmaryb
July 15th, 2010
3:54 am
Shake – Shake – Shake It!
Doing the dance – Do the Dance, Aye … ASG. …. Try This:
Take your little Piggy – Bank, and ……
Shake it like a salt shaker.
Shake it like a polaroid picture.
See what falls outa’ there and go buy yourself something nice.
Now, I ain’t saying Y’all a Gold-Digger, Cauz’ Y’all got needs. But, it’s time to go to work, so, roll up yo sleeves!
All Jokes aside – when I was in Graduate School, I remember being SO broke – I pulled up to the
gas pump on fumes and Holy Spirit. (no pun intended my lord)
I got the flash-light and crawled under the car seat looking for some loose change to put
a dollar’s worth of gas in the tank to drive 100 yards to get home!
Now, that’s Broke & I hoped and prayed – Ain’t Nobody Broke Like Me!
ASG? Check your car seats – Check the seat cracks! Check your batteries in that flash-light!
It’s always darkest, right before you pay the light bill! Pay your Bill!
northcyde
July 15th, 2010
4:01 am
A couple of things before I go to bed:
“I think I am just going to start passing the ball up to the wings instead of bringing it up. It takes too long into the shot clock for to get the offense going . That’s how it’s going to be when I play with Joe and those guys, anyway.”
Teague . . . what . . in . . the . . HELL?
You’re the damn PG. You HAVE to bring the ball up. You’re more than likely going to be the best ball handler on the court. You can’t be passing the ball to JJ for him to get it across the line. If you’re going to run the team, YOU are going to have to do it.
That is a “give up” mentality, and a HUGE RED FLAG. Correct that ish with the quickness Conner and Drew.
I should know, because I had that same exact thought process one time in practice in the 10th grade, going up against varsity. The starting varsity PG ripped me 2 consecutive times trying to get the ball up the court. The 3rd time, I passed that ball like a hot potato. Didn’t even take a dribble.
My JV coach lit into my azz. Told me to bring the ball up myself, if I still wanted to be the starting JV PG. That was the last time the varsity PG ever ripped me in a Varsity vs JV scrimmage that year.
Wow . . . I can’t believe he said that.
Notso Fast
July 15th, 2010
4:03 am
When your team does not spend money or does not have the money to spend, you usually end up with not the best GM, not the best Coach, and not the best players. This normally leads to you team not being the best. The Hawks need more help but the names being kicked around will not answer the needs.
drmaryb
July 15th, 2010
4:03 am
Grand-Daddy
I need a good ole’ skool – spankin’. So irritated with ASG messing with my Hawks, till I can’t sleep!
I’m loaded the Sony DVD player – watching The Negotiator starring Samuel Jackson (Morehouse Alum)
He He … ;-0.
Mmmmmmwah!
northcyde
July 15th, 2010
4:06 am
Blog monster is KILLING my 2nd post about the ASG.
northcyde
July 15th, 2010
4:06 am
As for the ASG . . . they also have a “give up” mentality, if that’s going to be their approach going into this season. In an offseason in which free agent signings were flying off the shelves. And in a year in what seems like the entire Eastern Conference is upgrading, this ish is not going to go over well at all with the fans. They have to know this. Right?
Surely getting a guy like Shaq would put extra money into their pockets, if they’re worrying about paying him the MLE, and going over the tax to fill out the roster. If they did that, you’re talking about what? 2 million over the tax? Use that money you sold the #31 pick for, to pay the tax. Sounds simple enough to me.
If they can’t get Shaq for the MLE, then just kill the rumor altogether. And if that’s the case, we’re looking at 2 minimum contract players being added to the roster ( some of you may get your Siler wish . . . he had a real good game today . . 15 pts – 7 boards . . if Miami doesn’t sign him over Pittman ). The 3rd guy will be a vet that is paid maybe 2 million. As long as it’s not Joe Smith or Jason Collins, do not bring any of those two back here.
drmaryb
July 15th, 2010
4:12 am
NorthCyde
That’s why Mr. Woodson glued his azz to that bench! Now, who’s looking crazy!
Bibby is our best option in the half-court set – on this team.
How does the ASG sleep at night? Like this – ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!
They sleeping good and we up all night trying to fix their team on the CHEAP!
New Coach – Same Problems! No PG and NO bona-fide Center for what? 10 years now?
Every player on this team is outa position – Every single damned one!
That is – Rich!