Atlanta Hawks: Shaq and their summer struggles

Las Vegas–First the Shaq scuttlebutt, then the game. . .

The Marvin for Shaq sign-and-trade appears to be a non-starter. The Hawks have consistently said they like their core, and that includes Marvin. So they are not looking to move Marvin for Shaq when he’s playing under what they consider to be a reasonable contract for a starting 3 whom they still believe can blossom under L.D.

Shaq is pushing for the sign-and-trade because he wants to be paid above the mid-level exception–a person familiar with his thinking said Shaq wants something like $16 million for two years after seeing other free agent centers sign lucrative deals. Shaq also wants to start but it doesn’t look like he will get that or the money from Atlanta. In fact, after post-J.J. indications that the Hawks were willing to push their payroll above the luxury-tax threshold of $70.3 million, it’s becoming increasingly clear ASG wants to avoid paying the tax.

With their payroll at roughly $65 million, the Hawks aren’t likely to use the full mid-level exception of $5.8 million to add the minimum of three players they need to get to 13. So the challenge for GM Rick Sund is to add veteran impact players to the roster under those financial constraints. That means Brad Miller likely is out of Atlanta’s price range and they’ll have to wait and see which veteran centers are still around when the dust settles.

Unless Sund can somehow find an impact player at a bargain, Atlanta’s rotation in 2010-11 figures to look a lot like 2009-10. If that’s the case, Atlanta’s belief in its core group figures to be tested.

Spurs 89, Hawks 84

Box Score

– This wasn’t a good effort for the Hawks. They got off to a slow start again and Lester Conner said he might change the lineup against Milwaukee tomorrow. Turnovers were the problem this time: seven in the first quarter, 15 at the half and 22 for the game. San Antonio recorded 17 steals, which is crazy even for Summer League.

– A rough outing for Teague, who had nine turnovers and once again rushed things at winning time. He just didn’t look all that into it at times, particularly when D-Leaguer Carldell “Squeaky” Johnson picked his pocket for a layup and blew by him for an assist on consecutive plays. “He didn’t take care of the ball and he didn’t run the team the way we’d like,” Conner said.

– It’s one thing for raw rookie Pape Sy to be bothered by ball pressure, another for Teague to look unnerved by it. “Just one of those games,” Teague said. “I think I am just going to start passing the ball up to the wings instead of bringing it up. It takes too long into the shot clock for to get the offense going . That’s how it’s going to be when I play with Joe and those guys, anyway.”

– In defense of Teague and the Hawks, they haven’t had much time to build any kind of cohesion. Conner said L.D.’s offense “might be too sophisticated for this group” because they keep abandoning the calls and freelancing. Then again, this wasn’t an opponent sending out NBAers like the Grizz did Monday. The Spurs sent out D-League free agents and led 52-36 at the half.

– The Hawks rallied again after halftime. They cut down on the turnovers and Teague, JC2 and Trey Gilder got going on offense. But the game got away from the Hawks when Teague jacked up a bricked 3-pointer, the Hawks fell asleep on D and allowed a James Gist dunk and then the Spurs got an offensive rebound on a missed free throw.

– It was another overall positive effort for Crawford., who scored 20 points while shooting 6 of 11. He didn’t draw many fouls at Xavier but earned seven free-throw attempts against San Antonio. Crawford spent some time at point guard and again showed good vision but also had a couple turnovers while forcing cross-court passes into traffic.

– Crawford’s talent is obvious. The Hawks just have to harness it. “He can score the basketball but he doesn’t know about shot selection yet,” Conner said. “That’s expected. We put him at point guard and they got into him.”

– Gilder looked pretty good on the wing. He’s got a slight build but he’s long, quick and smooth.

– The Hawks like Richard Hendrix’s physical game. He was strong on the block and also showed some pretty good footwork.

– After doing little against Memphis, RandMo came back with a strong effort.

– Sy was scratched with a sore right Achilles’. He said he injured it during the game Monday and most likely would sit out tomorrow vs. Milwaukee. James Augustine left the game due to a sprained ankle.

– I’m out, blog people.

MC

334 comments Add your comment

bigdave

July 14th, 2010
11:14 pm

“it’s becoming increasingly clear ASG wants to avoid paying the tax. ”

“the Hawks aren’t likely to use the full mid-level exception of $5.8 million to add the minimum of three players they need to get to 13″

“have to wait and see which veteran centers are still around when the dust settles.”

lol.

O'Brien

July 14th, 2010
11:22 pm

bigdave,

So much for adding to the team through free agency. So much for going into luxury tax for the right guy (I guess LeBron, Kobe, and Wade were not available).

So much for using the $3 mil from the #31 pick to help in free agency.

The least they can do is keep it real with the fans, and stop giving us false promises.

HAWKMAN

July 14th, 2010
11:22 pm

teague, cant handle the point. bibby at the point won 53 games. and to trade marvin for shaq, is just plain stupid.

bigdave

July 14th, 2010
11:24 pm

“Here’s a mistake… assuming that we trade Marvin and the ASG goes out and spends more money on someone better than Jarvis Hayes or James Jones. Come on people, how many times and years do you need to see passiveness in action regarding this franchise? Josh Howard? Matt Barnes? More like Donta Smith or Othella Hunter.”

-Astro Joe

“I don’t know why folk still think that the ASG will spend the MLE, but if you choose to believe that fantasy, then use it to move guys to their natural position. Not to move a 4-time All-Star to a place where he can no longer over-power his opponent. Yes, Joe will end his career at SF but let’s not rush him there.”

-Astro Joe

hey, StroJoe

can i get some lottery numbers? mega millions.. power ball maybe..? got some student loans to pay off..

bigdave

July 14th, 2010
11:25 pm

Obrien…

right… lol

bigdave

July 14th, 2010
11:26 pm

Kwame Brown anyone..? if we’re lucky Kurt Thomas?

and we reeeeeally need to think about adding a guard..

who’s collecting donations?

Melvin

July 14th, 2010
11:29 pm

Selling 31st pick for 3 mil to spend on FAs was all a lie. They (ASG) only wanted the cash…. If we are going to keep the core of this team than we need to get rid of the ownership group. One or the other has to go…

Jerry West

July 14th, 2010
11:29 pm

So the same team + Kurt Thomas? Yay.

Melvin

July 14th, 2010
11:31 pm

bigdave,

Kwame is out of their price range as well. Anyone who will not accept the vet min will be out of there price range…

JoJo the Godfather

July 14th, 2010
11:33 pm

Something I didn’t really like to hear from Teague…”I think I am just going to start passing the ball up to the wings instead of bringing it up. It takes too long into the shot clock to get the offense going . That’s how it’s going to be when I play with Joe and those guys, anyway.”…Sounds too passive to me…We still need to find a leader at PG…Teague should be the backup for now…Can Kirk Hinrich lead this team? Jose Calderon?

bigdave

July 14th, 2010
11:35 pm

Gilder kinda puts you in the mind of a poor man’s Jamario Moon, if there is a such thing.. basically the lanky cat with hops, plays d, and hits open shots at your local YMCA..

bigdave

July 14th, 2010
11:36 pm

Cousins is a grown man.

bigdave

July 14th, 2010
11:37 pm

welp.. Melvin, can you rebound and defend.. im sure you’ll play for it..

MsDee

July 14th, 2010
11:37 pm

Im not worried about Teague off night tonight b/c 1st of all, half those guys aren’t going to make the team anyway cause they cant finish a shot/layup..2nd of all, as far as Im concern, this IS Teague’s rookie season all over again cause he played little to no min all season plus he never played in a summer league b4. And 3rd, someone made a good point that Rondo was just as bad when he started, now look at him now, with all the confidence in the world with the help of a great coach. Drew will be that coach for him. So I dont care if Teague makes 9 more TO’s next game, I dont see no one bashing John Wall for his 16 total TO’s in 2 games??

JeJe

July 14th, 2010
11:39 pm

“I think I am just going to start passing the ball up to the wings instead of bringing it up. It takes too long into the shot clock for to get the offense going . That’s how it’s going to be when I play with Joe and those guys, anyway.”

LOL

Get Calderon

ASG is biggest joke in sports. You see Cuban linked to every player in this league. ASG is content signing old bigs with no gas left in the tank for the minimum.

DIDNT EVEN GET JOE TO TAKE A PAYCUT LOL

MsDee

July 14th, 2010
11:39 pm

I want Hendrex to be the back-up center if we cant get Shaq for the MLE. I wouldnt give up Marvin though. Shaq for the MLE or no Shaq at all!!! I have the feeling Hendrex could be the next thang to Glen Davis!

JeJe

July 14th, 2010
11:40 pm

I urge everyone to watch the Sund interview on hawks.com. This guy speaks with this air of confidence like this roster is set. Does not even address us getting destroyed by Cleveland/Orlando in the playoffs 2 consecutive years

Melvin

July 14th, 2010
11:44 pm

bigdave,

i will be the 2nd coming of Mario West with handles and a jumpshot for that vet min…:)

MsDee

July 14th, 2010
11:46 pm

JoJo the Godfather,

Again, u have to understand this is his 1st summer league, and u cant count last season cause he played no meaningful min, just ‘game-decided’ min. So if he say stuff like that is maybe he still feels pressure cause this summer league is high-lighting him. I think he will be just fine once he FINALLY gets to practice with the starters. Remember, he hasnt practiced or played yet with the starters..last season was bench players and now with those TRYING to make the team. Give him a break on his comment,its just pressure thats all!!

Melvin

July 14th, 2010
11:48 pm

Truth,

It’s not just Sund. Ownership has to be willing to invest the money to become a championship caliber team as well.

Bishop

July 14th, 2010
11:50 pm

PLEASE SELL THE TEAM!

Doug

July 14th, 2010
11:53 pm

Out in Vegas as well…as one of Teague’s biggest supporters I can say it was extremely disappointing to watch him today. Extremely careless with ball…easily could have had another 4-5 TO’s. Seemed disinterested in guarding as he was basically dominated by undrafted Curtis Jerrels. He either had a long night out in Vegas or has been terribly overrated by many…myself included. Never even looked to shoot a jump shot except once late…just really a bad effort. Obviously don’t want to make too much of one game but if he cannott do MUCH better than this the Hawks will have to make a move

drmaryb

July 14th, 2010
11:55 pm

Well, looks like our FA signing period is over and done with. Guess I’ll go play some golf and get rerady for the Falcons Game Day Experience. Arthur pays 58 people to play for him and they eat
Steaks and Lobsters at their mini-camps.

Aye … His grocery bill costs more than the Hawks entire roster.
Good-Night and Good Luck! Looks like it’s gonna’ be another white christmas!

bigdave

July 14th, 2010
11:56 pm

Truth..

this problem lies a bit deeper than Sund and Horford..

Brian Cashman could be our GM but if the checks aint being signed it’s a lost cause..

bigdave

July 14th, 2010
11:59 pm

Mary B..

i know you need a hot date… lol wink..

Rev in Tampa

July 15th, 2010
12:00 am

This is just awful news from MC. It is baffling. Truth-Serum, it looks like I will need that bullet to bite on before Friday.

bigdave

July 15th, 2010
12:04 am

Cousins might be the most polished big that has come out in a while..

dudes post game footwork is serious.. moves on top of moves.. a threat to finish over either shoulder which opens up even more moves.. face up jumper.. he’s pure filth.. kings becoming an favorite with their young core of talent..

as we speak he puts him up with Al’s favorite and only move, going middle to hook, first time he used it all night by the way..

Ramon

July 15th, 2010
12:04 am

At this point, Felton would be a better candidate for the Mid Level exception than Shaq, based on the NEEDS for the team. I wish the Cavs would take Bibby and Zaza for Shaq. I’m sure they would just buy Bibby out of his contract. As much as I would like to see Shaq coming off of the bench. I’d rather have Brewer and Kwame, or Felton and Kwame over just having Shaq.

HawkKingBibby

July 15th, 2010
12:05 am

M.C. why must you always bring us bad news?

bigdave

July 15th, 2010
12:06 am

dammit.. i love his attitude.. he’s gonna be a GREAT one..

bigdave

July 15th, 2010
12:10 am

for those who are up and have direct TV tune in to NBATV Stinger is about to be on.. it appears this Shaq story has made it national.. lol.. they need to phone MC.. and update material..

bigdave

July 15th, 2010
12:12 am

wait a minute.. does this mean The Stinger has left Sports South.. ?

Fundamentals

July 15th, 2010
12:14 am

I can now sleep well knowing we’re not giving up pieces for a used up SHAQ! THANK GOD!

bigdave

July 15th, 2010
12:17 am

lol.. ball out Gani!

cp

July 15th, 2010
12:21 am

Well I said a few days ago get to know these cats on the summer league team because I wont be shocked if a few of them make the team. Now it looks like that prediction is about right…..As far as Teague, terrible first half but played better in the second. I’m not really worried about him seeing how the summer league’s purpose is for guys to work on their skills. He has the work ethic he just needs to get his confidence back to where it once was. He will be fine. I’m not going to panic like some on here who think the sky is falling with every little situation. Hell we won 53 games with Bibby playing no defense and shooting well under 40% at one point for months. … I like the Gilder kid and seeing how we aren’t going to sign anybody I’m sure he can make the team. ……….Also nice to see Othello playing well for the Denver team. I always thought he had talent but we wouldn’t even send him to the NBDL to develop him…. Hope he sticks with the Nuggets.

Melvin

July 15th, 2010
12:21 am

From Peachtree hoops twitter. Talking about Shaq, Marvin and Hawks Free Agency…

http://sbnation.com/e/1334103

Section 303

July 15th, 2010
12:22 am

I really do not like the Atlanta Spirit Group. F them for not spending the money to make this team better. I didn’t want Shaq anyways, so I’m not mad he won’t be coming. If winning was a priority with those d-bags, they would get a two of the three bigs that I want: Miller, Brown, Thomas. But, it isn’t. So, re-sign West and RandMo and we’ll have another 2nd round ass kicking to look forward to.

Sawyer

July 15th, 2010
12:25 am

Lets recap the summer so far
1) Signed JJ for over 120 million
2) S &T Chills for a 2nd round pick in 2012 and 3 million TPE
3) Refuse to use the only thing teams over the cap can use to get better.

The ASG: Best owners in the league BY FAR!

Melvin

July 15th, 2010
12:27 am

MC,

Do the Hawks consider Bibby, ZaZa and Mo as part of the core?

STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)

July 15th, 2010
12:28 am

Did u say that Randmo came back with a strong effort? He was horrendous.

bigdave

July 15th, 2010
12:34 am

Truth..

it was NBATV.. nothing special.. just analyzing what both pieces would mean to their new franchises then they went into the Hawks v Spurs highlight segment..

♥Mz. Hawkdafied♥

July 15th, 2010
12:35 am

Truth Serum what is the criteria for Hollinger’s rankings?

Ramon

July 15th, 2010
12:35 am

Melvin, ASG consider Mario West, Randmo, and Collins as part of the core probably, lol.

Najeh Davenpoop

July 15th, 2010
12:50 am

So the Hawks sat on their azz, watched quality players like Raja Bell get snapped up for next to nothing by teams with intelligent management, and now they are going to turn around and sell last year’s second-round sweep team right back to us and pretend like the sh-t won’t stink this time.

Lack of creativity, lack of intelligence, and lack of motivation to get better. That’s what defines the DASG and Rick Sund.

And supposedly WE are supposed to be a “championship fan base”. It’s all our fault apparently. LMFAO…

TruthSeeker

July 15th, 2010
12:54 am

Very discouraging offseason. How can you get so utterly humiliated by Orlando and do nothing to improve yourself?

Unless Larry Drew is the next Phil Jackson, the Hawks have no prayer of getting past the second round. Not with the moves the Heat and Bulls have made. At best we’re the fourth best team in the East, and realistically more like fifth or sixth.

At least try SOMETHING, Sund.

Najeh Davenpoop

July 15th, 2010
12:55 am

They have a $10 million expiring contract in Jamal Crawford, a $3 million trade exception from the Childress trade, Mo Evans’ $2.5 million expiring contract, and a promising rookie who basically duplicates Jamal’s role. Any creative GM can turn that $13 million in trade chips into a big man who can battle Dwight Howard, another scorer off the bench to pick up Jamal’s slack, a legit veteran point guard who can provide insurance for Teague, and a perimeter defender to play SF or to play SG and move Joe to SF. There are several ways this team can improve without adding a significant amount of payroll. Many of us, including myself, have proposed several ways they can do this throughout the last two months.

But they will sit on their azzes and then complain when 1500 fewer people come to Hawks games than games of teams that have intelligent management.

Welcome back to the ATL Joe Smith. And Randolph Morris. And Jason Collins.

Najeh Davenpoop

July 15th, 2010
12:56 am

Maybe the DASG and Rick Sund are not aware, but two of the four best teams in the league are in the Hawks’ division. So yeah, fantastic idea to bring back last year’s team and see what happens. Wasn’t it Einstein who said something about trying the same thing and expecting a different result?

Go Braves. F-ck these losers.

Najeh Davenpoop

July 15th, 2010
12:58 am

Of course, all the mouth-breathing Woody supporters will be on here in nine months when the Hawks are on pace for fewer wins than last year and brag about how right they were that Woody wasn’t the problem. Nah, Woody wasn’t the ONLY problem; he was just the BIGGEST problem. Those of us who wanted him gone also wanted the Hawks to improve their other problems. Apparently the DASG was so busy high-fiving each other after firing Woody that they forgot that the rest of the offseason exists.

MsDee

July 15th, 2010
12:58 am

Najeh,

Is that really you??

Michael Cunningham

July 15th, 2010
12:59 am

@HawkKing: “M.C. why must you always bring us bad news?”

sorry dude.