Atlanta Hawks: Are you starvin’ to send away Marvin?
Las Vegas–I know my blog people have been trying to trade Marvin (and Bibby) with every conceivable and inconceivable permutation of fantasy deals. My favorite thing is when the proposals go like this: “Marvin and Bibby are terrible and their contracts are burdens. The Hawks should trade them for (fill in the blank with better players with more reasonable contracts).”
So do you want Marvin gone so badly that you’d swap him for 38-year old Shaq as a two-year-rental-at-most off the bench? David Aldridge reports that the Cavs are dangling Shaq in a sign-and-trade proposal for Marvin. Since the Hawks could just sign Shaq using the mid-level exception if they want him (which still isn’t certain) the Cavs presumably are counting on Atlanta’s desire to shed Marvin’s contract as the primary motivation for a trade.
Assuming Shaq gets the two-year deal he wants, Atlanta’s savings would total the difference between their salaries over the next two seasons plus the final two seasons of Marvin’s deal (assuming he exercises his option year)
For 2010-11, the Hawks’ savings would be the difference between the $6.7 million owed Marvin and Shaq’s new salary. For 2011-12, the savings would be Marvin’s $7.5 million salary minus Shaq’s salary. Shaq and Marvin would both be off the books in 2012-13, when Marvin makes $8.3 million, and the Hawks wouldn’t be on the hook for Marvin’s $7.5 million option in 2013-14.
Since this is all premature talk at this point, I won’t get into how the Hawks would go about replacing Marvin in the lineup. The Hawks still aren’t sure if Shaq would be a good fit even if he is willing to take less than the mid-level. Also, Marvin still has support within the organization, with the hope that L.D.’s new system will make a big difference in his production.
As for Aldridge’s contention that the Hawks aren’t willing to pay much more than the minimum due to “budget limitations,” all I can tell you is that everything I’ve heard suggests they are willing to exceed the luxury-tax threshold for the right player(s). I get the feeling that player isn’t Shaq.
MC
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538 comments Add your comment
come on
July 14th, 2010
4:46 pm
shaq’s name is better than his play is now. i would rather keep marvin than have to see over weight slow shaq play. shaq is and will always be about himself and not the team we don’t need him. he does not improve our team. look at his play for the suns and cavs, he is done.
Rondo
July 14th, 2010
4:46 pm
I have a simple way for Sund to determine if its ok to trade Marvin for Shaq.All he has to think to himself is Which one of these guys will I feel comfortable with babysitting my Grandkids.
Remember Kids Just Say No To Shaq
Rod from College Park
July 14th, 2010
4:46 pm
“Marvin isnt an iso player Rod. he is not going to give you much of anything 1 on 1.. that is just not within his skill set. however, Coach Woodson felt as if he would fare just fine and would feature him in iso’s. smh. i blame Woodson for mis using his talent.”
Exactly!!! Marvin was not asked to iso this year, he was asked to knock down wide open jumpshots, which he did not do. He is not an iso player either, because he can’t create his own shot. Anyone who actually thinks that Marvin will be a better player with someone actually guarding him in a motion offense, including Coach Drew, will look like dummies next year this time, just like a lot of regualars on the blog looked this year after I told them the resigning Marvin was a terrible move.
indigo
July 14th, 2010
4:47 pm
One thing for sure. Marvin was Billy Knight’s biggest mistake. If only he had chosen Chris Paul or Deron Williams with that pick, things would have been very, very different.
MyView
July 14th, 2010
4:47 pm
Also, aside from playing the magic, celts and Lakers, how often would we want Shaq on the court anyway? How many games would he be available?
MaxxHawk
July 14th, 2010
4:48 pm
HAWKFORLIFE- Couldn’t have said it better myself
AtlSouthside
July 14th, 2010
4:48 pm
(Rod) “I would also venture to say that Josh’s handles are much better than Marvin’s.” Thats a HUGE venture…
Youtube videos dont prove much sir… I can show you a playoff game, where Josh walks up the court with the game on the line… I can show you a playoff game video where Josh pulls a 3ppointer with the game on the line and time left…
Marv isnt a liability… he’s a role player…
MaxxHawk
July 14th, 2010
4:48 pm
indigo- I would have to disagree. Sheldon Williams was the biggest Billy Knight blunder
GeeMack
July 14th, 2010
4:49 pm
We resigned JJ with the hopes of making it deeper into the playoffs. Contrary to popular opinion a rookie head coach is not going to make this team better alone.
I blog with more Heart
July 14th, 2010
4:49 pm
I still think they should just offer Shaq money NOT a sign-n trade, that way if he does f*&% up we didn’t lose anything, we trade marvin now and create another hole, Shaq leaves in two years now we got two holes and we all know you get f*&% with two holes
Gainesville#1
July 14th, 2010
4:52 pm
Sportsblogdude
I don’t need to get the boot from sh&t. I been doin this basketball sh*t since I was 3. Dude hit open jumpshots, he is a good defender and you trade him for old as shaq? Get the fu*k oud of here with that s#it.
MaxxHawk
July 14th, 2010
4:53 pm
Actually, it’s a toss-up. Sheldon Williams over Brandon Roy and Rudy Gay or Marvin Williams over CP3 and D.Will. Marvin stayed with the team but didn’t really give us any quality contribution. Sheldon Williams was like throwing away the 5th pick in the draft. Either way, Billy Knight stole our collective lunch moneys
Dr. Callemout
July 14th, 2010
4:54 pm
Gainesville#1
Please son expand your vocabulary.Oh I forgot what else are you to expect from Hall County.
Rod from College Park
July 14th, 2010
4:55 pm
Bigdave,
“Marvin was exclusively featured in the offense and produced. he torched Luke Ridnour about 3 straight possessions.. when the Hawks actually took advantage of the mismatch. before those.. Marvin was getting put back.. and 1’s etc. he was actively involved in the game offense and it yielded positive results.”
Wow. How about you name me another small forward 6′9 or above that the Bucks would actually have the nerve to defend with Luke Ridnour. From a basketball standpoint, he should torch Luke Ridenhour anytime he attempts to guard him. Teams disrepect him so much, that they actually feel confident with the likes of Ridnour, Hinrich, Mayo…guarding Marvin, because 9 times out of 10 he won’t make them pay. How about any of the other playoff games when he played his invisible man role.
MaxxHawk
July 14th, 2010
4:55 pm
Marvin has a nice looking shot, but it doesn’t go in! He just runs at the basket and falls down. He’s got no hops, no Basketball IQ and does not step up ever. He is trash, good riddance, I’d trade Marvin Williams for a $2 Cold Cut Combo from Subway
I blog with more Heart
July 14th, 2010
4:55 pm
you could put together a squad like Miami with the people Billy Knight passed on, not a joke real $h!t
SEC4Life
July 14th, 2010
4:56 pm
I’d trade Marvin Williams for a 2pc Breast & Wing Meal from Ms. Winners with green beans and cole slaw.
SEC4Life
July 14th, 2010
4:56 pm
Okay, you could keep the cole slaw.
yoursporthouse.com
July 14th, 2010
4:57 pm
ATL Southside,
I can show you a playoff game that while Josh was walking up the court, Marvin was better off buying a ticket cause he was on the bench watching. His minutes were diminished just like his skills.
Dr. Callemout
July 14th, 2010
4:58 pm
MaxxHawk
I would be careful about that wager. Subway will give you the runs.
Dr. Callemout
July 14th, 2010
4:59 pm
Truth-Serum
I see you have recovered from your yeast infection.
Rod from College Park
July 14th, 2010
4:59 pm
Gainesville#1,
“I don’t need to get the boot from sh&t. I been doin this basketball sh*t since I was 3. Dude hit open jumpshots, he is a good defender and you trade him for old as shaq? Get the fu*k oud of here with that s#it.”
Obviously you have not been “doin basketball” since you were 3, because dude did not hit open jumpshots this year, and his is not a good defender. Why do you think that Joe ending having to guard his man most of the time.
Rod from College Park
July 14th, 2010
5:02 pm
SEC4Life,
“I’d trade Marvin Williams for a 2pc Breast & Wing Meal from Ms. Winners with green beans and cole slaw.”
LOL. How about a 3 wing snack.
cdog
July 14th, 2010
5:04 pm
IF THE CAVS THROW IN MO WILLIAMS AND SHAQ FOR MARVIN AND BIBBY THIS TRADE WILL BE GOOD.WILLIAMS WOULD BE AN UPGRADE FROM BIBBY.
Ken Strickland
July 14th, 2010
5:04 pm
If this trade takes place, it won’t be about wanting to get rid of MWiiliams as much as the ASG wanting to free up enough money to pay Shaq more than the MLE, as well as save money for AHorford next yr. Think about it. If we trade Marvin and sign Shaq to a 2yr contract, after this season, Shaq’s contract, as well as MBibby’s, would be very tradable expiring contracts.
The ASG will automatically benefit financially from JaCrawford($10.8M) and MEvans’($2.5M)combined($13.3M)expiring contracts coming off the books. They could then trade Bibby’s($5.56M) and Shaq’s(whatever he signs for)contracts and be free of not only their combined salaries, but any obligation to Marvin. With these moves, the ASG could conceivably end up saving close to $20-25M in salaries, depending on what they take back in trades.
JCRAWFORD-$10.80M
MEVANS——2.50M
MBIBBY——5.56M
SHAQ(MARVIN)7.26M
_________________
TOTAL PROJECTED SAVINGS WOULD BE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF $26.12M.
The net result of this proposed trade would be to use Marvins salary, rather than any of our exemptions, to pay Shaq. The long term goal is to free ourselves of both obligations next yr, provided we decide to trade Shaq’s and Bibby’s expiring contracts.
If all of this plays out as I’ve stated, we’d be in an excellent position to not only resign AHorford, but go after those centers we coveted that either had their expiring contracts traded, or decided not opt out of the final yr of their contracts. All of these centers will be FA’s next yr.
bigdave
July 14th, 2010
5:05 pm
Rod im done..
marvin is the Antichrist..
Harry Hawk
July 14th, 2010
5:08 pm
I could live with a Marvin-for-Shaq deal. I’m not big on Shaq coming here, but we’re paying Marvin too much as it is. At least we’d save some cash in the long run.
Rod from College Park
July 14th, 2010
5:11 pm
AtlSouthside,
“Youtube videos dont prove much sir… I can show you a playoff game, where Josh walks up the court with the game on the line… I can show you a playoff game video where Josh pulls a 3ppointer with the game on the line and time left…
Marv isnt a liability… he’s a role player…”
Thats the point, you don’t pay role players 8 mill per. Should be somewhere around 2 to 3 mill per. Shaq,even is his old age is not a role player.
I can show you about 70 games this year where Marv, who should be an actor, played the role of the invisible man. You are a liability if you are on the court and have no value. That was Marvin for much of this season and much of the playoffs.
Grandad
July 14th, 2010
5:13 pm
TS
Thank you.
“gotcha & the rest”, no thanks.
That’s real.
Ol’ Man Granger
AtlSouthside
July 14th, 2010
5:16 pm
@Rod, its call “switch defense”, even Horford was guarding PGs in that Mike Woodson game plan
Crazy!!!
July 14th, 2010
5:19 pm
I still dont understand why people are so down on Shaq… 12 and 7 in 23 minutes… 57 percent from the field come on people… Forget trying to outrun people… If you want a ship you need a half court game… With Big Al at the 4 and Shaq at the 5 Horford would emegre as one of the best pf’s in the game… And Smoove is versatile enough to play the 3… I can recallhim guarding the likes of Wade when he first came in the league… I think if Smoove focuses on the 3 he has the skill to potentially be the next Pippen… Well not Pip, but he will be a stud… With Shaq starting and a half court game this team will pose mismatches for opposssing teams with their size and strenghts in the half court set, i. e. the Lakers(without having a Kobe like performer)…
Rod from College Park
July 14th, 2010
5:21 pm
“@Rod, its call “switch defense”, even Horford was guarding PGs in that Mike Woodson game plan”
Huh? the other team was not playing switch defense. They were guarding Marvin straight up with Luke Ridnour.
Raybud
July 14th, 2010
5:24 pm
I think that the marvin for shaq trade is a HUGE mistake. If Shaq is a FA, why do a sign and trade unless you are trying to free up extra money? Shaq isn’t looking for a team to win a title, he’s looking to make a few more extra bucks. The Hawks need to sign him for what they got now. If not, take a look at Miller or even Tolliver, if available. They need a younger guy at that position and one that could play for more than two years.
Prison Mike
July 14th, 2010
5:24 pm
Yo MC,
Do you think the hawks could wait on Dampier being released some time in the following months and just sign him outright. I mean his final year is like a ticking bomb in that he will not see any of it.
Dampier is better than shaq and that tells you the level of talent available in the center free agency class.
Jfreak13713
July 14th, 2010
5:24 pm
I would trade Marvin Williams for a flat basketball! As long as Shaq doesn’t come in and stir up trouble then for me the trade look ok? The Hawks aren’t going to be able to go deep in playoffs with our without Shaq but NOT having Marvin Williams gives us a fighting chance to make it out of the first round?
Addition by Subtraction!
James
July 14th, 2010
5:24 pm
Mo Williams and Shaq to Atlanta for Mike Bibby and Marvin Williams that sounds fair.
Raybud
July 14th, 2010
5:25 pm
The other thing I want people to look at is if we trade Marvin, whose the starting SF. Don’t say Smoove because he doesn’t need to be out on the perimeter and I don’t think Mo is good enough to start 82 games.
AtlSouthside
July 14th, 2010
5:26 pm
@ rod, its called a “switch defense”…. Marv/Horford defending PG’s is the main reason Woody had to get the boot! And this is the exact same reason that you should hold your jdgment of Marv until after this season… you cant underestimate the impact of a weak game plan, on a player’s individual game… especially a player who doesnt control the ball…
Raybud
July 14th, 2010
5:29 pm
@Truth Serum…I don’t blame Woodson for that, but I would have to look at the GM’s and wonder why they haven’t figured out that we need a good C and PG to really be a threat at the NBA Title.
AtlSouthside
July 14th, 2010
5:29 pm
Northcyde (re) posted a stat that said 60% of shot attempts against Al horford “IN THE POST” were successful, That number was well above average.
cite this source of the stat… because i doubt someone keeps track of fg % against a player…i could be wrong bout the even 60% figure seems suspect…
AtlSouthside
July 14th, 2010
5:31 pm
that Mike Woodson switch defense had tons of holes in it, so I can see how teams destroyed us in the paint and on the perimeter… Woody had our players running around looking crazy…intentionally leaving 3pointer shooter open in the corner for easy treys!
Rod from College Park
July 14th, 2010
5:37 pm
AtlSouthside,
“Marv/Horford defending PG’s is the main reason Woody had to get the boot!”
Actually it was the center Horford/Zaza/Collins, and the PF Josh switch that caused the problems. Not the 3, Marvin.
Gainesville#1
July 14th, 2010
5:42 pm
Rod from collage park
His is a good defender. Joe Johnson ended up on marvins guy because of mike woodsons switch defence. Against the bucks, al horford ended up guarding brandon jennings. You gone blame that on marvin?
Gainesville#1
July 14th, 2010
5:47 pm
Callemount
It was a typo. That happens from time to time clown. I don’t know about hall counties school system so say what you want about them.
cp
July 14th, 2010
5:47 pm
Im not a fan of Marvin Williams but there is no way im trading him for a over the hill center who will become a locker room cancer when things aren’t going his way…… I’m fine with trading Marvin to improve the roster but for Shaq I would pass. Shaq wants too much money and will not want to come off the bench. Avoid the headache.
bigdave
July 14th, 2010
5:48 pm
sarcasm..
Rufus1
July 14th, 2010
5:52 pm
“Blind Hatred”
Will cause a person to rationalize the CRAZIEST ideas.
The worst part about the Marvin Haters, is they give him NO CREDIT AT ALL…But talk about Chillz like he was Pippen.
NJ just gave Travis Outlaw 35mil over 5 years and couldn’t defend a Tree, but Marvin is overpaid.
Suns just gave Chillz 34mil over 5 years and he has no offense game, but Marvin is overpaid.
Cavs want Marvin over Chillz(because they could have had Chillz for Shaq), but Marvin is garbage.
EVEN TRUTH-SERUM WOULDN’T TRADE MARVIN FOR SHAQ AND ALL HE WANTS IS A CENTER…could we please be reasonable.
“Blind hatred”
Gamer
July 14th, 2010
5:52 pm
Not Shaq!!!
His personality is too big for rookie coach Larry Drew.
Nashville Hawks
July 14th, 2010
5:54 pm
Trade Marvin for Shaq will be the worst trade of all times in the NBA. The minute you trade him, he’ll becomes an “ALL-STAR”. Remember the Brett Farve’s trade ATL fans??? This city always makes bad drafts and trades.
The reason Marvin hasn’t excel is because of injuries and the ball hog JJ anc JC taking all the shots.
Sign Shag straight up and if he becomes a cancer, then release the big imature fool.
N-Trigue
July 14th, 2010
5:55 pm
I can’t believe I’m saying this but to trade Marvin for Shaq would be stupid! Especially since he’s a free agent. I want Marvin gone but not for Shaq no way! Trade him for Scola or Biedrens someone that can give us some real value all the time remember people there’s only 1 team that has Dwight Howard. We can try to build our team based on the Magic when its a possibility we won’t even see them in the Playoffs! I support signing Shaq but not trading Marv for him. I would like to see how Marv game is gonna translate in Drews new system.