Atlanta Hawks: Are you starvin’ to send away Marvin?
Las Vegas–I know my blog people have been trying to trade Marvin (and Bibby) with every conceivable and inconceivable permutation of fantasy deals. My favorite thing is when the proposals go like this: “Marvin and Bibby are terrible and their contracts are burdens. The Hawks should trade them for (fill in the blank with better players with more reasonable contracts).”
So do you want Marvin gone so badly that you’d swap him for 38-year old Shaq as a two-year-rental-at-most off the bench? David Aldridge reports that the Cavs are dangling Shaq in a sign-and-trade proposal for Marvin. Since the Hawks could just sign Shaq using the mid-level exception if they want him (which still isn’t certain) the Cavs presumably are counting on Atlanta’s desire to shed Marvin’s contract as the primary motivation for a trade.
Assuming Shaq gets the two-year deal he wants, Atlanta’s savings would total the difference between their salaries over the next two seasons plus the final two seasons of Marvin’s deal (assuming he exercises his option year)
For 2010-11, the Hawks’ savings would be the difference between the $6.7 million owed Marvin and Shaq’s new salary. For 2011-12, the savings would be Marvin’s $7.5 million salary minus Shaq’s salary. Shaq and Marvin would both be off the books in 2012-13, when Marvin makes $8.3 million, and the Hawks wouldn’t be on the hook for Marvin’s $7.5 million option in 2013-14.
Since this is all premature talk at this point, I won’t get into how the Hawks would go about replacing Marvin in the lineup. The Hawks still aren’t sure if Shaq would be a good fit even if he is willing to take less than the mid-level. Also, Marvin still has support within the organization, with the hope that L.D.’s new system will make a big difference in his production.
As for Aldridge’s contention that the Hawks aren’t willing to pay much more than the minimum due to “budget limitations,” all I can tell you is that everything I’ve heard suggests they are willing to exceed the luxury-tax threshold for the right player(s). I get the feeling that player isn’t Shaq.
MC
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538 comments Add your comment
Rod from College Park
July 14th, 2010
3:58 pm
All you fans who continuosly say let’s wait on Marvin are just that, fans. Marvin is a waste. Please, one of you idiots who continue to say Marvin is so athletic, define what you consider athletic is. Marvin is 6′9, 240 with a 7 foot wingspan, and can’t post and score on guys that are 6′2. Can’t dribble more than 2 or three times. He cant finish or get 3 point plays against point guards (See Jennings and Nelson in the playoffs). He trips and stumbles the majority of the time he tries to drive to the basket. What is he? All of you guys he say he is a jump shooter, please name me one guy in NBA history, who is a pure jumpshooter, who can’t knock down wide open (no one checking them) jumpshots. How you could possibly blame Mike Woodson or Marvin’s teammates for his failures is beyond me. If Matt Barnes, Damien Wilkins or any similar type player took Marvin’s spot on our team last year, they probably would have averaged at least 15 ppg with all the wide open looks and mismatches that they would have had. He also is just an average to below average defender. He brings no toughness, does not hustle, no versatility, and has no desire to be better. Many of you harp on Josh not hustling, but I have seen him run past Marvin many times to make a spectacular block. All of you who think that Marvin will leave and become Scottie Pippen or Dannny Granger, trust me, it won’t happen. If you are still clumsy and goofy at 25. more than likely that will be your lot in life.
Honestly, I’m not even paying this supposed trade any attention, because it won’t happen. Marvin for any basketball player who can actually play at this point would be a great deal, let alone a center who can actually guard his man straight up. 3’s in this league might be the easiest position to replace, unless you are a superstar. Jarvis Hayes, Matt Barnes, Damien Wilkins, Damien James (our original draft pick this year), Ronnie Brewer, Cory Brewer, Josh Howard……….could all provide as much or more than Marvin gives you now, at a much cheaper price. My only problem with this imaginary deal, is that if you were trying to, or thought about trading Marvin, you should have done whatever you had to do to keep Childress, who was much better and more versatile anyway. The only reason that I can think of that management would not have done that is because they probably can’t find a team stupid enough to actually take back Marvin Williams in a deal. Even Don Nelson won’t make a deal with Marvin involved, and that should tell you something.
Crazy!!!
July 14th, 2010
4:00 pm
You all are crazy!!! I like Williams too, but even at this age Shaq is better than Williams… 12 points and 7 rebounds a game in 23 minutes… Come on, now… Did you all watch what D. Howard did in the playoffs??? Howard is the best, but at least Shaq makes him work for it… And why are teams trying to get smaller and run??? The past few champions are teams who incorporate a half court set… You need a true power forward and center… If Shaq starts at center, you will see an increase production in Horford’s numbers…
Start Shaq at Center
Horford at PF
Smoove at SF
JJ at SG
??? at PG
Bench:
2 Crawfords
Wiiliams
ZaZa
And lets quit with the Shaq being bad for the locker room… His tenure in Phoenix the rookies liked him… Lets not forget Nash’s reluctance to play D and crying til Porter got fired… Lets not forget Kobe’s immaturity in LA… And lets not forget about Pat Riley’s instigation in 07… If you bring his name up then you have to bring up the other prime donnas…
Shaq playing half a game at 23 minutes is more productive than a lot of starters… ATL needs to sign Shaq and become a big team… Smoove can play the 3 he is one of the premiere defenders in the league, he can play the 3… If ATL wants to take the next step they need to sign Shaq…
AtlSouthside
July 14th, 2010
4:00 pm
pardon my memory but what did Childress do for Atlanta?? When he was here, we only won 20 games… w/o him, we’ve made the playoffs 4 straight seasons… Flip Murray and Mo Evans (and now Jamal Crawford)were HUGE upgrades from Childress off the bench…
Dude is overrated, and IDK where you Childress-lovers are coming from, you can’t possibly live in Atl.
bigdave
July 14th, 2010
4:01 pm
“He brings no toughness, does not hustle, no versatility, and has no desire to be better.”
i dont agree with this..
i mean Marvin really sucks sometimes.. i mean.. just f-in sorry as sh^t.. but ive never questioned his effort..
ReddJonn68
July 14th, 2010
4:04 pm
Truth was Olajuwan a face up center or Ewing ???? Thats why these guys game suffer even Howard at times. Hell yeah you gotta post in the five spot, but hit a damn mid range once in a while.
Nookah
July 14th, 2010
4:05 pm
Trading Marvin will be a mistake. I hope it’s nothing more than a rumour!!!
Go Hawks!!!!
Grandad
July 14th, 2010
4:05 pm
AtlSouthside & terrell:
I was under the impression that the
…..Team…..
Won the game or Lost the game.
bigdave
July 14th, 2010
4:07 pm
i just would hate to trade for a great asset filling a position of need, only to leave a glaring void in another position that we are already thin at.. im talking true SF.. not tweeners.. Joe can definitely start @ 3.. Mo, can play at sub par level but should not. Josh.. should not.
honest_abe
July 14th, 2010
4:11 pm
Did samuel chamge his handle to truth serum? He sounds about as annoying and stupid as the great one from mississippi
I blog with more Heart
July 14th, 2010
4:12 pm
when was Teague ever in a game that wasn’t garbbage time… my point is we don’t know how none of these players will pan out due to the fact that Woodson had his certain players he was gonna die with, so with that said let’s see if our new coach can get something if not ship him fed ex.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 14th, 2010
4:13 pm
“If Bibby’s on the roster, he has to start”
How long has it been since you watched basketball? Bibby would be the 3rd best point guard on the Hawks’ summer league team.
John
July 14th, 2010
4:14 pm
Trading Marvin would be a mistake. He has little value right now so it cannot hurt to see what he can do in the new system. If he does not improve much, then look to trade him. He really is solid, but not much more than that. If he was the 20th pick instead of 2nd, people would not be so hard on him and would probably like him.
Astro Joe
July 14th, 2010
4:16 pm
I don’t know why folk still think that the ASG will spend the MLE, but if you choose to believe that fantasy, then use it to move guys to their natural position. Not to move a 4-time All-Star to a place where he can no longer over-power his opponent. Yes, Joe will end his career at SF but let’s not rush him there.
yoursporthouse.com
July 14th, 2010
4:17 pm
Are you guys serious? Don’t trade Marvin? He’s a #2 pick with ONLY 4 years under his belt Tyger? You don’t pick someone #2 on 6 year potential ignoramous. Your #2 pick should be a franchise player. That dude is no better than the #20 pick in this years draft Damion James. Trade that dude for whomever. Its an upgrade.
Mike is back
July 14th, 2010
4:17 pm
MC, I also like AJ’s idea of only guaranteeing one year with an option for a second…if we do sign Shaq.
Hey, I’m with the other options mentioned by the blog crew at this point in the game. I like Kurt Thomas with any of the names previously mentioned. I think Miller/Thomas would be the best option…other GMs are busy filling needs…we can ill-afford to waste any more time on Shaq.
Dallas, is a funny team…they are making a lot moves…however they are for the same lower tier guys…like the ones they already have…no one will be saying they are the team beat in the West…after all the dust settles…even if they do sign Shaq…you think that’s why Shaq hasn’t sign with Dallas yet…hmmmmmmmmmmmm.
AtlSouthside
July 14th, 2010
4:18 pm
Josh Smith isnt a SF… he cant dribble or shoot… your SF is basically a 2nd SG… no way in hell I’d trust Josh with the ball on the perimeter…HE CANT DRIBBLE!!!
And to the guy who wrote a book about Marv, how do you feel about Josh Smith’s ball skills, shot selection, attitude and effort on the court??
Freshmaker
July 14th, 2010
4:19 pm
Somehow I figured Rod would be in favor of the trade.
Rod from College Park
July 14th, 2010
4:19 pm
bigdave
“im not talking stats.. its a mentality. Joe is a lazy rebounder.. he is no where near as active on the glass.. outside of his post ups and defense he just isnt a physical. im not thrilled in starting him @ a position that would demand that of him. Marvin showed that he would go in there and do the dirty work.. hustle, scrap, etc. things you see from guys like Caron, a 2 way player with a forwards mentality..”
Last year Joe averaged 4.6 rpg from the 2 spot and Marvin averaged 5.1 from the 3 spot. If you moved Joe to the 3, he would have no problem making up that slight difference. Hate to tell you this, but Marvin is much softer than Joe, and brings no physicality. Teams guarded Marvin with the likes of Kirk Hinrich and O.J. Mayo in the post. Joe would destroy either one of those guys if they tried to defend him.
AtlSouthside
July 14th, 2010
4:19 pm
Bibby, 3rd best PG on the HAwks? lol
yoursporthouse.com
July 14th, 2010
4:20 pm
ATL Southside, Childress was on the team the first playoff year. Remember he almost averaged a double double in the playoffs. He outplayed Marvin. Which is probably the main reason he left the team because he knew he should have been starting over Marvin cause Marvin sucks.
Rondo
July 14th, 2010
4:20 pm
Even though Shaq burned his bridges down in Miami thats where he really wants to be.L.D. sees too much value in Marvin to let him leave for Shaq. Spend the money on Brad Miller for whatever it takes and get a savvy vetern like Kurt Thomas and they can fill the void at center.
The Real JC
July 14th, 2010
4:23 pm
@Whoever originally brought up this stat:
Bibby’s assist to turnover ratio is 3.44 assist to 1 turnover
Teague summer play .75 assist to 1 turnover
Come on guys, you know that’s not a fair comparison. In summer league, Teague is passing to guys who can’t catch the ball and can’t make shots. Of course his assist-to-turnover ratio isn’t going to be as good as Bibby’s, who basically passes it to Joe and lets him do his thing, then notches an assist with pretty much no effort.
Also, it’s hard to turn the ball over if you don’t actually drive into the lane. Teague slashes and shoots in traffic, something Bibby stopped doing after his first year with the Hawks when his knees fell off.
Melvin
July 14th, 2010
4:23 pm
Another hour, another team other than the Hawks makes a FA signing or trade…
Shaun Livingston has agreed in principle to a two-year, $7 million deal with Charlotte, league sources tell Y! Also non-guaranteed 3rd year. about 2 hours ago via web
Rondo
July 14th, 2010
4:24 pm
Brad Miller and Kurt Thomas enough said
honest_abe
July 14th, 2010
4:24 pm
Holy #*+-${ when did flava flav become a regular in the hawks blog?
bigdave
July 14th, 2010
4:24 pm
http://illseed.com/2010/07/13/lebron-fans-are-crazy-and-mean/
lolol…
yoursporthouse.com
July 14th, 2010
4:28 pm
Looks like its a done deal..
STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)
July 14th, 2010
4:29 pm
We haven’t seen Marvin in a real offense. DON’T TRADE HIM.
I blog with more Heart
July 14th, 2010
4:29 pm
@ Truth-Serum
understood but still flawed, if someone isn’t given a chance then yeah he would SEEM like a scrubb, and don’t get it twisted I’m not saying he’s better than Bibby but he COULD be we really don’t know, but you know what I did see from Teague he can wave the f*&k out of a towel from the bench cause that’s were Woodson kept him at all times
HAWKFORLIFE
July 14th, 2010
4:31 pm
I would trade Marvin for a box of donuts!! Trade Marvin for Shaq and sign Matt Barnes!!! Then sign Kwame for about 2 mil and we have a nice looking team! We better do something players are dropping like flies!
Rod from College Park
July 14th, 2010
4:32 pm
AtlSouthside,
“Josh Smith isnt a SF… he cant dribble or shoot… your SF is basically a 2nd SG… no way in hell I’d trust Josh with the ball on the perimeter…HE CANT DRIBBLE!!!
And to the guy who wrote a book about Marv, how do you feel about Josh Smith’s ball skills, shot selection, attitude and effort on the court??”
Hate to do this to you, because I rep the southside also (College Park to be exact), but in case you have not really watched the Hawks, Marvin can’t dribble or shoot either. Josh had a 50%FG percentage last year while always being guarded by mostly bigger players, and Marvin had a 45%FG percentage, while being left wide open or guarded by much smaller players most of the time. Math was not my favorite subject, but even I know that 50>45. I would also venture to say that Josh’s handles are much better than Marvin’s. There is a reason that Josh became a point/ forward this year, and almost made the all star team, and handling the ball, and making great passes had a lot to do with it, which is someting that a 2 or a 3 would do. His turnover problems come from having bad peripheral vision, or as basket ball player say, not being able to feel defenders coming from behind him. Marvin rarely takes over 3 dribbles, and picks up his dribble, which is a sign of a guy with no handles.
bigdave
July 14th, 2010
4:34 pm
Rod..
im one of Joe’s biggest fans and supporters of his game. when is the last time you saw Joe hit the deck for a loose ball?
Marvin isnt an iso player Rod. he is not going to give you much of anything 1 on 1.. that is just not within his skill set. however, Coach Woodson felt as if he would fare just fine and would feature him in iso’s. smh. i blame Woodson for mis using his talent.
Gainesville#1
July 14th, 2010
4:34 pm
This trade would be just stupid. Mirvin is a good player and to trade him for shaq doesn’t make since. If they go through with this, sund needs to get the boot.
Gainesville#1
July 14th, 2010
4:35 pm
I meant marvin
yoursporthouse.com
July 14th, 2010
4:35 pm
Steel,
What kind of offense do you think Marvin needs to be in? He was in an offense where all he had to do was hit open jump shots. That’s the type offense any shooter would love to be in, see J.J. Reddick. You guys are hilarious with making excuses for a guy who SUCKS.
Rev in Tampa
July 14th, 2010
4:37 pm
Regarding JJ moving to the #3 positioin, I am still with Astro Joe. JJ plays with too much finesse to be as effective as he is at the #2. Even if Marvin is only ‘average’ on the boards he is more willing to bang for a rebound that JJ. My basketball IQ is not high enough to know how many boards are expected of a #3 but with JJ at that position we could only expect our #4 & #5 to collect all the boards.
yoursporthouse.com
July 14th, 2010
4:37 pm
Gainesville #1, you need to get the boot from this blog. What has Marvin done to make you think this is a stupid move? He’s the worst small forward in the league.
dap01
July 14th, 2010
4:37 pm
Trading Marvin for talent is not a mistake. Trading Marvin just to get ONeal a couple million more is a TERRIBLE mistake.
Since JJ’s recruiting has turned up nothing, perhaps he could give up a million each year so that we might get a little more help.
Rod from College Park
July 14th, 2010
4:38 pm
Truth-Serum,
“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocaatPvI90k
AtlSouthside this if for you player.”
I hope this is the play where Josh runs by Marvin like he is standing still and makes a great block. Sometimes I wonder if these guys really watch the Hawks. Can’t view youtube at the moment.
JQP
July 14th, 2010
4:38 pm
Why is everyone so down on Marvin? He just averaged 16ppg not that long ago, is still young and healthy, clearly has more upside potential. He’s not a focus of the offense, doesn’t get many shots. We were lucky to be so healthy last year, if we get an average amount of injuries we will need to lean on Marvin hard to pick up the slack.
The team is better and wins when they are running the ball and moving in transition. With Shaq they will be slow and grinding out their inefficient half court offense every play.
I blog with more Heart
July 14th, 2010
4:38 pm
nobody can wave that towel better than teague, this we know
yoursporthouse.com
July 14th, 2010
4:38 pm
As a Hawks fan I’m just happy there are actually some takers for this guy. I think anyone that trades for this guy is stupid.
LW
July 14th, 2010
4:40 pm
I think that the half court game is the weakest part of the Hawks game. Acquiring Shaq would make them more of a half court team and they also would have to wait for Shaq to get up and down the court. I don’t like Marvin’s game; however, I would not want Shaq on the Hawks at any price.
Sometimes a coach’s personality can stifle a young player’s development. I think the Hawks should evaluate how Marvin plays for at least a couple months of the season then make a decision on whether he is worth keeping. Though I would like to see the Hawks get stronger I question what is out there that can realistically be acquired in a trade for one of the Hawks core players that will make them stronger. I would like to see the Hawks work harder to acquire serviceable players in free agency and tinker with the core later.
bigdave
July 14th, 2010
4:41 pm
i refer u to game 5 Bucks series..
Marvin was exclusively featured in the offense and produced. he torched Luke Ridnour about 3 straight possessions.. when the Hawks actually took advantage of the mismatch. before those.. Marvin was getting put back.. and 1’s etc. he was actively involved in the game offense and it yielded positive results.
there is a big difference between being engaged in the offensive attack vs. just being a bail out jump shooter with limited touches.
yoursporthouse.com
July 14th, 2010
4:41 pm
JQP,
You’re giving a #2 pick justice for averaging 16 ppg once out of 5 years? This guy is horrible. He can’t dribble. He drives to the hole and flails and goes up weak. WHAT GAMES ARE YOU GUYS WATCHING? TRADE THIS GUY FOR A 2 PIECE AT BOJANGLES!!!
MyView
July 14th, 2010
4:42 pm
Maybe its just me, but I dont want to give up anything for Shaq other than cash. I happen to think Marvin would be an asset in a non Iso system. If he can’t become more of an asset in LD’s system then I will give up.
I blog with more Heart
July 14th, 2010
4:44 pm
@ yoursporthouse.com
I would for some BOJANGLES too lol
HAWKFORLIFE
July 14th, 2010
4:44 pm
People! Marvin can’t guard dwight howard, perkins, garnett, jermaine o neal’ ilgauskus, noah, the list goes on and on! We need SIZE!! Listen to Horford he has basically begged for help while shaq isn’t the Shaq of 5 years ago he is still a force! Did we not see how great horford was at pf in game 2 of the orlando series he was dominant!! Marvin has had his time to show himself and he is weak!!!!!!!!
MaxxHawk
July 14th, 2010
4:44 pm
Yes I’m starvin to get rid of Marvin the Duck. Trade Marvin and Bibby for Shaq and J. Moon, and we are set!
Grandad
July 14th, 2010
4:44 pm
I’m sorry Mr. Wi Ngn Tu:
I did not realize ASG had replaced LD with yourself.
Perhaps you can recruit Yao Ming @ 7-6.
He fits your banal, shibboleth, protocol of what a center;
should be to be, according to Old man Woodson’s prodigy,
being yourself, of course.
By the way, your welcome.
sincerely,
Phillip Masters (ret)