Atlanta Hawks: Are you starvin’ to send away Marvin?
Las Vegas–I know my blog people have been trying to trade Marvin (and Bibby) with every conceivable and inconceivable permutation of fantasy deals. My favorite thing is when the proposals go like this: “Marvin and Bibby are terrible and their contracts are burdens. The Hawks should trade them for (fill in the blank with better players with more reasonable contracts).”
So do you want Marvin gone so badly that you’d swap him for 38-year old Shaq as a two-year-rental-at-most off the bench? David Aldridge reports that the Cavs are dangling Shaq in a sign-and-trade proposal for Marvin. Since the Hawks could just sign Shaq using the mid-level exception if they want him (which still isn’t certain) the Cavs presumably are counting on Atlanta’s desire to shed Marvin’s contract as the primary motivation for a trade.
Assuming Shaq gets the two-year deal he wants, Atlanta’s savings would total the difference between their salaries over the next two seasons plus the final two seasons of Marvin’s deal (assuming he exercises his option year)
For 2010-11, the Hawks’ savings would be the difference between the $6.7 million owed Marvin and Shaq’s new salary. For 2011-12, the savings would be Marvin’s $7.5 million salary minus Shaq’s salary. Shaq and Marvin would both be off the books in 2012-13, when Marvin makes $8.3 million, and the Hawks wouldn’t be on the hook for Marvin’s $7.5 million option in 2013-14.
Since this is all premature talk at this point, I won’t get into how the Hawks would go about replacing Marvin in the lineup. The Hawks still aren’t sure if Shaq would be a good fit even if he is willing to take less than the mid-level. Also, Marvin still has support within the organization, with the hope that L.D.’s new system will make a big difference in his production.
As for Aldridge’s contention that the Hawks aren’t willing to pay much more than the minimum due to “budget limitations,” all I can tell you is that everything I’ve heard suggests they are willing to exceed the luxury-tax threshold for the right player(s). I get the feeling that player isn’t Shaq.
MC
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538 comments Add your comment
drmaryb
July 14th, 2010
3:15 pm
Grand-Daddy
I love my Daddy!
Co-sign with you on the props to:
Pragmatic Reality
Rifus1
Nuff’ Said!
IceColdATLien
July 14th, 2010
3:15 pm
Terrible idea!! Use Marvin plus the $3mil trade exception (about $10mil total) and do a sign and trade with Spurs for Richard Jefferson. then sign Shaq to midlevel for two years. He’s got nowhere else to go with Spurs, Mavs, and Heat all signing multiple centers. Then Hawks have Teague/Bibby, JJ, RJ, Smoove, and Al… with JC and Shaq comin off the bench… wicked!!
bigdave
July 14th, 2010
3:15 pm
* :”in various looks”; “and board”
terrell
July 14th, 2010
3:15 pm
Mo Williams/Anthony Parker/Marvin/Hickson/Verajao
Wouldn’t be too shabby for a supposedly depleted team. Probably give us a run for our $
Delbert D.
July 14th, 2010
3:16 pm
I thought there was no scenario possible where I’d want Shaq on this team. However, expunging Marvin and Bibby make it such an attractive move.
ReddJonn68
July 14th, 2010
3:18 pm
Hey MC put the fault where it lies, the contracts = Management, the performances = Marvin & Bibby. I know that any type of trade for either of those would yield nothing of value. Now we are in a position to have to trade a starter for a non-starter & no decent backup if J-Smoove is moved to the 3. I just laugh when I see some of those proposed trades. A car does not drive itself, so until ASG puts someone behind the wheel any Hawks transaction is like ” Say What “
Grandad
July 14th, 2010
3:18 pm
Players for whom I -Would- trade Marv:[realistic]*Melo*Paul, not listed
Battier
Varejao
Thabeet [Marv + TPE]
Troy Murphy [Marv + TPE]
Bargnani [not as realistic]
Caron Butler & Ajinca [marv + TPE]
There are others of course.
We need to start thinking like LD.
Sund tried to provide for Wdsn = Bibby *[contract]
** Now LD wants **Bigs that can move & face up.+ pass.
**stretch [4]’s & [5]’s. (that can see the floor & pass) / Josh will be great.
**hence, interest in Brad Miller.
I think Sund is trying, as he should, to aquire players who fit the system.
As opposed to BK who drafted thoroughbreds,
then Wdsn coached ‘em like plow mules.
drmaryb
July 14th, 2010
3:21 pm
SoulStar!
Get Em’ Baby! I actullay stopped blogging due to the insane level of IGNORANCE on this blog for the last
several weeks! Intolerable Ignorance is – Intolerable! I had to pull out my golf clubs and go to the greens.
Go – Figure! Zero tolerance for Stupidity!
O'Brien
July 14th, 2010
3:25 pm
Bigdave,
Marvin averaged 5 or 6 RPG. In my opinion, that is just average (Gerald Wallace averaged 11 or 12, despite the fact that Charlotte had plenty of bigs).
And If I’m trading Marvin for shaq, I would ask for jamario moon as well, Because trading Marvin leaves us with no SFs.
And If that happens, I would not want to rely on the ASG an sund to sign a quality SF.
ReddJonn68
July 14th, 2010
3:25 pm
@ Manny thats some funny stuff, giving Marvin the # 23 jersey. He would end up with the number, no one would be caught dead in around Cleveland.
ZULU
July 14th, 2010
3:25 pm
Shaq had nothing to offer the Cav’s. Heck the Heat took “Z” off there hands. Leave the young guns alone. Shaq has become a good for the crowd kind of guy, but the younger centers are passining him by at breakneck speed. There has to be a hungry seven footer somewhere.
Chawne
July 14th, 2010
3:28 pm
Only way to rationalize dealing Marvin for a big is
a) Someone better than Shaq
b) Signing Josh Howard to replace him
If you’re going to really swing for the fences, do it right. Howard is the ONLY free agent out there right now that signifies that huge risk/reward.
AtlSouthside
July 14th, 2010
3:30 pm
I actually like Marvin’s game. He is a solid defender, has a nice jumper, and he’s 6′9… Even if he doesnt start, I’d like to keep him on the roster… Marvin is not sorry, and I can’t think of an instance where Marv blew a game for us… Josh Smith has blown several…
bigdave
July 14th, 2010
3:32 pm
Obrien..
im not talking stats.. its a mentality. Joe is a lazy rebounder.. he is no where near as active on the glass.. outside of his post ups and defense he just isnt a physical. im not thrilled in starting him @ a position that would demand that of him. Marvin showed that he would go in there and do the dirty work.. hustle, scrap, etc. things you see from guys like Caron, a 2 way player with a forwards mentality..
terrell
July 14th, 2010
3:33 pm
Hawks probably waiting on Charlotte to waive Dampier. Not a bad idea, especially if they’re thinking bout trading Marvin for Shaq.
AtlSouthside
July 14th, 2010
3:33 pm
We could run this lineup:
Bibby
Jamal C
Joe
Josh
Horford
bench:
J.Teague
Marvin
Mo Evans
Zaza
Joe Smith
Rookie – Crawford
release:
Randolph Morris
nash
July 14th, 2010
3:34 pm
I’m all for team up grades but who place the 3 if Marvin is gone. And Shaq is not what the Hawk need. If you send Marvin to the Cav’s AT least get Varajo in the trade
bigdave
July 14th, 2010
3:36 pm
“(Gerald Wallace averaged 11 or 12, despite the fact that Charlotte had plenty of bigs).”
that boxed out and cleared rebounding lanes.. kinda like a big space eater at defensive tackle allowing LB’s to eat..
our bigs are light in the a$s.. and we rebound of pure athleticism.. a lot of times we were just out of rebounding position b/c we had bigs all over the place.. hanging out on the perimeter trying to cover their switching assignment..
drmaryb
July 14th, 2010
3:37 pm
OBRIEN
@325 PM: re trade plausibility! Co-Sign that ISH Bruh! Load up the grocery cart with a center and a SF!
Nuff’ – Said!
Rondo
July 14th, 2010
3:37 pm
Marvin don’t deserve this anywhere but Cleveland
I blog with more Heart
July 14th, 2010
3:39 pm
bad Ideal, Marvin was in a bad system we know this, how will he fare in a new system we don’t know, but for all the knock at him he CAN defend many SF we know this too, I would really see what he has under different events before we toss him to the Cav’s, yeah we need a Big but we should take atvantage of the money we have left to address those needs, think hard people let’s not create a hole to fill one let’s fill that hole without a loss, we can really win the whole thing if we play the cards right( yeah it sounds funny but I’m for real) they should go over the tax to fill the 5 spot and aquire Brad Miller ( always loved his game) for at least two years.
terrell
July 14th, 2010
3:39 pm
“I cant think of one instance where Marvin has blew a gme for us. Josh Smith has blown several”. Wow!
Astro Joe
July 14th, 2010
3:40 pm
OB, Gerald Wallace? Come on. Tell me how many rebounds most SFs get when they play with 2 guys who combine for around 18/game. I wouldn;t be surprised if Marvin’s rebounding were on par with Rashard Lewis (in fewer minutes).
terrell
July 14th, 2010
3:40 pm
And I cant think of 1 game that Marvin has WON for us. Josh Smith has WON several.
James
July 14th, 2010
3:41 pm
The Hawks have the wrong people running the organization if Dominique Wilkins was the GM we wouldn’t be in the mess that were in now. We got a player making $120M and he’s not even a superstar that’s a shame.
terrell
July 14th, 2010
3:41 pm
LMAO at Southside still startin Bibby.
Mike is back
July 14th, 2010
3:42 pm
MC, as much as I was lauding the benefits of signing Shaq…I would not make that trade. Marvin has under achieved…but he is not a bust. Yeah he regressed this season…but so did his touches.
With guys like Kolver and Reddrick now making around 8mil…Marvin contract is a bargain…especially with his talent and youth. Lets see what LD he can do with him. This new balance attack offense should bode well for Marvin, Josh, and Al. They want have to work as hard to score.
Shaq is bluffing…the ASG didn’t have much of choice with JJ…they do with Shaq. I would take Shaq head up at the MLE, no exceptions period …other that F Shaq and an S&T. Heck Shaq don’t give a crap…he just wants money.
ReddJonn68
July 14th, 2010
3:42 pm
AtlSouthside is this what you expected from a top pick. Face it Marvin is young, but he plays like he has ten thumbs & can’t get out of his own way, who is gonna pass him the ball in the clutch? Facing the truth though we lose some points & reb. We might as well do what we always do fall on the sword & keep him, cause there is not much left out there.
terrell
July 14th, 2010
3:42 pm
And Southside, that’s the same team as last year. Wtf?
AtlSouthside
July 14th, 2010
3:42 pm
Joe Johnson should play SF, trade Marv & Bibby, start Jeff Teague at PG or Jordan Crawford…
Westurd
July 14th, 2010
3:43 pm
Where are all the Marvin supporters coming from? Just last week (and especially last season) most folks were willing to trade him for an actual duck butt.
Still shaking my head that JJ walked out of FA with the biggest contract. Bigger the Queen James, Wade, Bosh, Boozer, Stoudamire, etc.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 14th, 2010
3:44 pm
“I can’t think of an instance where Marv blew a game for us”
You can’t blow the game if your azz is collecting splinters durig crunch time. Maybe if Marvin didn’t suck, he would actually be ON THE FLOOR in the first place to have a chance to not blow the game.
I blog with more Heart
July 14th, 2010
3:45 pm
“I cant think of one instance where Marvin has blew a gme for us. Josh Smith has blown several”. Wow!
And I cant think of 1 game that Marvin has WON for us. Josh Smith has WON several.
LMAO
matt
July 14th, 2010
3:47 pm
not a fan of marvin but there is one fundamental difference between him and Shaq. To answer the question who id choose, id have to go with Marvin. My reasoning, potential to grow and improve as a player. Shaq has passed his prime and Marvin, lets hope he will hit his. Either way, Shaq will not improve the team enough to justify getting ride of Marvin. If im the hawks GM i pick up Brad Miller and if im lucky Kwame Brown also
GHunt
July 14th, 2010
3:48 pm
Marvin must remain a Hawk! Remember the Boris Diaw fiasco a few years ago. Marvin has untapped potential and he will blossom under a coach who knows how to utilize his talent.
Without Marvin who will Teague diss the ball to? JJ will hog the ball even when he is doubled or triple teamed. Smooove and horford will handle the low post scoring and Marvin will handle the perimeter shooting..
Don’t give up on talented players who did not fulfill their status under Woody. Give LD a chance to develop the skill sets of this talented team.
O'Brien
July 14th, 2010
3:48 pm
I agree that JJ did a poor job rebounding at times, and he took plays off defensively at times.
But I wonder how much of that was due to JJ trying to conserve energy for his 38 MPG, numerous ISOs, and defending PGs?
My point with Marvin, is I didn’t see rebounding as one of his strengths last year. My two cents.
I blog with more Heart
July 14th, 2010
3:48 pm
@ Truth-Serum
did you test him yourself how you gone say he has no basketball IQ, give me one solid fact to prove it….
Najeh Davenpoop
July 14th, 2010
3:48 pm
“Joe starting @ 3…
i dont know.. i liked it various looks last year.. but he would have to hit the defensive glass a lot harder considering we have a light 4 and 5.. but maybe the elimination of switching helps in that dept.”
Bringing in Shaq would help with that too. Big time.
Teague running Drew’s offense with Bell and Joe on the wings, Smoove and/ or Horford running pick and rolls and getting out in transition, and Shaq available to hold down the middle against the Magic… I’m picturing a defensively improved, more versatile Phoenix Suns team right now.
terrell
July 14th, 2010
3:49 pm
Can anyone tell me why JR Smith is playing in the SL?
bigdave
July 14th, 2010
3:51 pm
“I can’t think of an instance where Marv blew a game for us”
lol.. the reb. mishap up in T-dot..
but aye.. i like Marvin.. i hate Marvin.. just dont know if making THIS covers up one hole and exposes another..
terrell
July 14th, 2010
3:51 pm
TS, Teague has O basketball IQ? Wtf! So your’re saying after 20 or so years of playing basketball, he still doesnt know how to play basketball? Whatever.
ReddJonn68
July 14th, 2010
3:52 pm
Hey Truth look at Brandon Jenning high ratio of turnovers. If Teague gives us those same stats would you take them. Plus your boy Bibby avg 3.9 apg I believe Teague could do that sleepwalking.
Buddy Grizzard
July 14th, 2010
3:52 pm
MC, please tell me Sund is not that stupid. After giving away Childress for NOTHING we’re going to piss away a number two overall pick WHO COULD STILL COME INTO HIS OWN IN A SYSTEM NOT BASED ON JOE JOHNSON DOMINATING THE BALL.
Then again Sund hired Bob Weiss… I guess the Jamal Crawford trade was an act of God.
I blog with more Heart
July 14th, 2010
3:52 pm
@ Truth-Serum
waiting…
terrell
July 14th, 2010
3:53 pm
lol at Big Dave. I remember that game. Haha
bigdave
July 14th, 2010
3:54 pm
“Teague running Drew’s offense with Bell and Joe on the wings, Smoove and/ or Horford running pick and rolls and getting out in transition, and Shaq available to hold down the middle against the Magic… I’m picturing a defensively improved, more versatile Phoenix Suns team right now.”
would be nice.. but lol.. we gotta get him though.. i mean Miami has damn near put together 2 teams from scraps while we’re pondering free agency..
plus Raja is flirting with joining the champs.
L.A. Mont
July 14th, 2010
3:54 pm
Maybe would have considered it before the sign and trade of Josh Childress to Phoenix. But not now.
AtlSouthside
July 14th, 2010
3:56 pm
If Bibby’s on the roster, he has to start… no way JT starts over Bibby. Jeff Teague = Acie Law. Our problem is the Center position… If we can get a solid Center for Marv&Bib I’d say trade them both, but I’m a realistic fan, I dont see us making a move… its almost too late at this point… all the good BIGs are no longer FAs (Boozer, Bosh, Lee)
I blog with more Heart
July 14th, 2010
3:57 pm
ummh….whatever, some fans have no basketball IQ.
anyways back to the topic, Marvin for Shaq very bad, Shaq for a MIL offer bingo smart front office move!
honest_abe
July 14th, 2010
3:58 pm
@ truth serum.. Teague’s a turnover machine? He has zero bball iq? let me guess you figured this out by waching how he sits on the bench.. Heh. I’m sorry he must’ve given you that impression from a couple of summer league games this year.. Give me a break! you haven’t seen enough of teague to make a fair assessment of his skill level or iq.. So get that shat outta here.. Bibby over teague? Maybe if I’m looking for someone to sound like kermit the frog while looking like an albino