Atlanta Hawks: Are you starvin’ to send away Marvin?
Las Vegas–I know my blog people have been trying to trade Marvin (and Bibby) with every conceivable and inconceivable permutation of fantasy deals. My favorite thing is when the proposals go like this: “Marvin and Bibby are terrible and their contracts are burdens. The Hawks should trade them for (fill in the blank with better players with more reasonable contracts).”
So do you want Marvin gone so badly that you’d swap him for 38-year old Shaq as a two-year-rental-at-most off the bench? David Aldridge reports that the Cavs are dangling Shaq in a sign-and-trade proposal for Marvin. Since the Hawks could just sign Shaq using the mid-level exception if they want him (which still isn’t certain) the Cavs presumably are counting on Atlanta’s desire to shed Marvin’s contract as the primary motivation for a trade.
Assuming Shaq gets the two-year deal he wants, Atlanta’s savings would total the difference between their salaries over the next two seasons plus the final two seasons of Marvin’s deal (assuming he exercises his option year)
For 2010-11, the Hawks’ savings would be the difference between the $6.7 million owed Marvin and Shaq’s new salary. For 2011-12, the savings would be Marvin’s $7.5 million salary minus Shaq’s salary. Shaq and Marvin would both be off the books in 2012-13, when Marvin makes $8.3 million, and the Hawks wouldn’t be on the hook for Marvin’s $7.5 million option in 2013-14.
Since this is all premature talk at this point, I won’t get into how the Hawks would go about replacing Marvin in the lineup. The Hawks still aren’t sure if Shaq would be a good fit even if he is willing to take less than the mid-level. Also, Marvin still has support within the organization, with the hope that L.D.’s new system will make a big difference in his production.
As for Aldridge’s contention that the Hawks aren’t willing to pay much more than the minimum due to “budget limitations,” all I can tell you is that everything I’ve heard suggests they are willing to exceed the luxury-tax threshold for the right player(s). I get the feeling that player isn’t Shaq.
MC
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538 comments Add your comment
drmaryb
July 14th, 2010
2:28 pm
Stretch
You need to stretch your vocabulary as well! Salutation? I learned that in 4th grade – it’s elementary.
It’s the closing line in a basic letter. IF you’re that – s l o w? It’s the opposite of a greeting!
Stay on the Bus!
slim
July 14th, 2010
2:29 pm
woody had a bum system with too many scorers in the starting lineup, example, Iso joe, then you had Josh and Big Al who needed touches, Marvin has great talent but for some reason couldn’t find his way in the starting lineup last season, I fault Woody and no one else his offensive scheme was garbage, reason being Josh and Al got much better over the past couple of seasons, which got them more touches, marvin should have been coming off the bench last season bottom line, the guy has much talent.
Jerry West
July 14th, 2010
2:29 pm
For those wanting Varejao, have you seen his contract? And didn’t the Cavs acquire Shaq to be their Dwight-stopper even though they already had Varejao?
STRETCH
July 14th, 2010
2:30 pm
No, my words were, im going over to the Braves blog, NOT “going away”
The Real JC
July 14th, 2010
2:32 pm
About the Ed Davis/Marvin Williams comparison – I’m a Carolina grad and watched both guys serve a sixth-man role for national championship teams. After the 09 championship, some people speculated that Davis could go as high as #2, a la Marvin.
The reason he will ultimately be more successful than Marvin – he stayed in college, and we all found out he wasn’t a top-five pick. He got drafted at a more reasonable pick and he will get the coaching and developmental help he needs to ultimately become more successful.
GT Alum
July 14th, 2010
2:33 pm
Well, we got rid of one of the Atlanta players most widely hated by fans via the Braves trade of Escobar. If the Hawks trade Marvin, that would be another target gone.
terrell
July 14th, 2010
2:34 pm
Ryan, Chills wasn’t even in the same draft as CP3. Jesus!
Manny
July 14th, 2010
2:36 pm
Will they assume Marvin’s contract? Will the trade take Marvin totally off the books?
If that’s the case, trade him. I would take that aging center for the veteran league minimum and see be in a better position against the cap. But if there’s residue, or if Marvin doesn’t give us cap space, leave it alone.
KoolKen
July 14th, 2010
2:36 pm
when the Hawks run some playes for Marvin and he don’t produce, then I agree he is not worth keeping…right now he only get a few shots per game in this offense and has to rely on others getting him the ball…which make him the 4th or 5th option in the starting lineup…
Sleepy
July 14th, 2010
2:36 pm
Typical ATL
Als untouchable
Joshs is untouchable
Marvins untouchable
but yet here we are getting outs butts handed to us in the playoffs . There are teams out there who have accomplished more the past 3 years than we have and they are doing whatever is necessary to make there team better and we have people crying about a dime a dozen small forward .
You trade Marvin for Shaq
Move Zaza for a SF hell move Zaza for Jamario Moon ,Battier, or still have the MLE to go after barnes
or better yet go after TMAC with the MLE Im sure he would love to have a chance to go after the Heat after spending a year with the knicks.
The goal should be to get Shaq and then have the Mle to make another move not get Shaq and depend on marvin again ..thats just insanity
Grandad
July 14th, 2010
2:37 pm
Pragmatic Reality – excellent post.
Rufus1 – I could not agree more.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 14th, 2010
2:38 pm
“Marvin would avg 20+ in Cleveland.”
Every player in the league is good enough to average 20 if he gets the ball enough. Very few of them can average 20 and win at the same time. If Marvin goes to Cleveland and gets enough shots to average 20, which is possible, it’s not going to result in victories and will be the result of no better options available.
For the record. I’d rather sign Shaq with the mid-level and Barnes/Brewer/Josh Howard with the biannual. But if I have to pick between Marvin and Shaq at this point in time, give me Shaq. Marvin is young but very easily replaceable… sh-t, Damion James might match his production this year.
dstdeelite
July 14th, 2010
2:38 pm
No way…no how….can’t do it…not gonna do it….
I’m beginning to dislike DA….a lot. He “sources” are about as good as mine.
The Real JC
July 14th, 2010
2:39 pm
It’s not about Marvin’s production. It’s about Shaq’s big fat butt. We need him (or someone like him) to clog up the lane, keep slashers/other centers honest, box out and do other things that don’t show up on stat sheets. Marvin has been a solid 3rd/4th option on offense for a few years now, but he is definitely replaceable for the missing puzzle piece at center, no matter how old it may be.
FD
July 14th, 2010
2:41 pm
Are you all some of the same people that blasted LeBron for not being LOYAL (whatever that means in the NBA) to Cleveland? If so, you couldn’t possibly be advocating that the Hawks not show loyalty to Marvin…surely this isn’t the case…is it?!!!!!!
i_am_soulstar
July 14th, 2010
2:41 pm
*looking at the free agent small forwards available before I comment
george Holman
July 14th, 2010
2:43 pm
We all keep waiting for Marvin to live up to his potential, but it’s not going to happen. He is nothing but a role player who is always, and I mean always, going to be a guy that one can count on for 12 points and 5 rebounds per game. Get someone who can play center and move Al to his true position of power forward, and let’s see what can happen.
coach smith
July 14th, 2010
2:44 pm
Play JOE at SF and start Jamal Crawford at SG….I mean JOE is a big SG to begin with
Mr. ATL
July 14th, 2010
2:46 pm
do you think this will work send joe johnson to mav for butler an haywood then bibby an marvin to cavs for mo williams an first round pick then send both of your first round picks to the pacers for danny the starting five would be mo at the pg. danny at the sg . bulter at sf. al at the pf an haywood at the center
The Real JC
July 14th, 2010
2:47 pm
@Najeh – well put. Averaging 20+ on a losing team still means your team’s losing. You’re trading a 3, the most common position in the NBA, for a true 5, the least common. It’s not production, it’s scarcity.
I wish Marvin the best, I really do. Just not with the Hawks.
O'Brien
July 14th, 2010
2:49 pm
Najeh,
Co-sign.
Its funny how fans will criticize a player, But once they Are involved in trade rumors, that player becomes untouchable.
And people don’t realize the flexibility trading Marvin gives us. What If the hawks decide to move JJ to SF and start mo at SG?
What If we bring in Matt Barnes and Damien Wilkins to replace him?
And What if we keep Marvin this year, but he still struggles in drew’s offense?
Marvin deserves a chance, but hawks must explore all options.
Charles J.
July 14th, 2010
2:49 pm
Well, less take a longer look at this trade suggestion. We SNT a 24yr Marvin Williams for Shaq and nothing else. Let me say h@ll no. that would be the biggest mistake they’ve made with a trade since they traded Nique. And just look at the fact that Shaq has played with both LBJ and D.Wade and the Miami Heat didn’t even go after him, plus they go after Ilgauskas instead. And the way I see it is they need to win now even more than we do or they’re going to have egg all over their faces. So I say if he don’t want the MLE then move on to the next FA if that be K. Brow or B. Miller get r done before they sign with some one else. How in the heck can you giveup on Marvin when you’re bring in a new coach and new system that he just might flurish in, I beleave and hope he will, so I will just sit back and wait and see how ASG f#ck this up. Nooooooooo Marv 4 Shaq strightup trade.
terrell
July 14th, 2010
2:50 pm
Where’s Rod from CP? I’m sure he’d be happy if this deal went through. Hell, he’d be happy with Adam Morrison at sf. He’s a FA. lol!
Astro Joe
July 14th, 2010
2:50 pm
Trading Marvin is one thing, trading him for a 2-year lease on a diesel with 7 flat tires, a damaged alternator and a busted transmission, well, that makes very little sense.
terrell
July 14th, 2010
2:52 pm
Where’s Rod from CP? Im sure he’d be ok with this deal. Hell, he’d be happy with Adam Morrison at sf, as opposed to “Duck”. lol!
dstdeelite
July 14th, 2010
2:53 pm
@ Astro Joe……. LMBO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Van
July 14th, 2010
2:53 pm
I would not trade Marvin for Shaq. I will go ahead and singned Shaq for two years(exceed the luxury tax threshold). You signed Joe for 124m and he is know Kobe, Labron or Dewayne. KEEP THE TEAM THAT YOU HAVE!!!
Manny
July 14th, 2010
2:56 pm
So I popped over to the Cavs blog, looking at what they thought of the deal. They love it! They see Marvin as an athletic, 24 year-old that have the potential to be exciting. They were even talking about giving Marvin the #23, LOL!
Now there was the hilarity of saying that they want Josh Smith instead. That was kinda funny, but they got real.
But when you really look at their team, they need a SF more than we need a center.
Asha
July 14th, 2010
2:56 pm
Listen people, It is not Marvin’s fault for getting drafted 2nd overall. If you go out and marry a woman without doing your homework on that woman, You can not fault her if she cheats on you.
Keep Marvin
Astro Joe
July 14th, 2010
2:56 pm
Here’s a mistake… assuming that we trade Marvin and the ASG goes out and spends more money on someone better than Jarvis Hayes or James Jones. Come on people, how many times and years do you need to see passiveness in action regarding this franchise? Josh Howard? Matt Barnes? More like Donta Smith or Othella Hunter.
Grandad
July 14th, 2010
2:57 pm
This idea came to me from above…..^…..!
YES…..I would trade Marv for Battier in a heartbeat…!…
riggo
July 14th, 2010
2:58 pm
Why would someone pay Shaq 21 mil as did Cleveland last year. He is cleary half the player he once was. If he wants to play on a winner this year & the Hawks do need brute force in the middle, this would be a good match for both at that mid level salary. I SURE HOPE MARVIN IS WORKING ON HIS GAME THIS SUMMER???
i_am_soulstar
July 14th, 2010
2:58 pm
I’d definitely trade Marvin for Shaq, as long we can offer part of the MLE to a quality SF like Matt Barnes.
Now if Marvin was making less, I’d feel differently, because I have no issue with a guy actually earning his money. But when someone’s play isn’t on par with their pay, and they’re replaceable (key word), it’s time to make moves. That’s an opportunity to improve the front court and free up cap space.
If you can get Barnes or an equal-caliber small forward for the MLE or less, it’s a no-brainer.
Jay Dubu
July 14th, 2010
2:59 pm
Shaq for Bibby, when be an even trade
honest_abe
July 14th, 2010
3:00 pm
Haha @ aj……… Here’s the real question…. What is the over/under on how many division games the Hawks win this year? I’m feeling pretty optimistic today so I’ll set it at two!
terry
July 14th, 2010
3:00 pm
It IS a no brainer. It would be a stupid trade and if you did this you obviously have no brains. Trade a young starter for an over-the-hill bench player? No way.
Rufus1
July 14th, 2010
3:02 pm
Why Marvin and Not Chillz..
Why would Cleveland be willing to pay More for Marvin than they would Chillz. The Hawks would have gladly done the Shaq trade for Chillz, but the GM of the Cavs( former Asst GM in Atlanta, while Chillz and Marvin were here) would not pay Chillz asking Price. The GM for the Cavs must feel Marvin’s talent has been under utilized , under Woodson…Hmmmmmmm. So more than just the Hawks valued Marvin or than Chillz
THINK ABOUT IT!!!
Tmac
July 14th, 2010
3:02 pm
Marvin is expendable!
You can replace what he brings to the table in any draft any year.
Good riddance!
HUH??
July 14th, 2010
3:02 pm
@drmaryb,
Salutation is not the closing line of a letter….maybe you shoud get on the short bus yourself.
Astro Joe
July 14th, 2010
3:02 pm
Abe, that sounds about right.
Dr. Dave
July 14th, 2010
3:04 pm
At this point in his career Shaq is a liability. He is not in shape and too slow to run the break. Woody never used Marvin’s skill set properly, where Marvin was used as an outlet if Joe or Bibby picked up their dribbles. He was rarely used as a viable offensive option, even though he has one of the better jump shots in the league for his size. I think he will be better in LD’s offense. Trading him would be a big mistake, unless we got a special player (CP3) in return.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 14th, 2010
3:04 pm
“Play JOE at SF and start Jamal Crawford at SG”
I am fine with playing Joe at SF, where he might actually be able to get to the rim easier, but Crawford starting at SG is a bad idea. Sign Raja Bell with the MLE to start at SG and I’m down, in a heartbeat.
True Hawks Fan
July 14th, 2010
3:05 pm
Shaq would be bad for the Hawks. Has he made an impact the last 3 years?
jeff
July 14th, 2010
3:06 pm
We were lucky to get anything for Chills. He isn’t an all-star or something. He is a bench guy that was overpaid.
i_am_soulstar
July 14th, 2010
3:09 pm
Ignorant posts: Blog posts that fail to consider salary caps, position availability, skill-set demand, or player efficiency. Also tend to value potential ability over demonstrated ability.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 14th, 2010
3:12 pm
In fact, considering that shooting is not one of Teague’s strong points and the Hawks need to space the floor better, that might be the best way to roll. Trade Marvin for Shaq, sign Raja Bell with part or all of the MLE to play the 2 and move Joe to the 3. Smoove, Horford and Shaq split the PF/C minutes, and Drew can go with several combinations at the 2 and 3 depending on the matchup, each of which would leave the Hawks with at least two shooters on the floor. Also, with Wade and LeBron in the division, Bell provides a proven perimeter defender who can go up against a physical perimeter scorer one on one.
O'Brien
July 14th, 2010
3:12 pm
Najeh,
I would be willing to play mo Evans at SG, which would allow Crawford to be our spark of the bench.
bigdave
July 14th, 2010
3:13 pm
Joe starting @ 3…
i dont know.. i liked it various looks last year.. but he would have to hit the defensive glass a lot harder considering we have a light 4 and 5.. but maybe the elimination of switching helps in that dept.
Marvin did make a commitment to go in there and boards.. and though his offensive production was down.. his activity level was up last year..
im all for bringing in Shaq but that 3 spot has been haunting us, i just dont consider Evans to be a legitimate back up even with Marvin around..
Jay Dubu
July 14th, 2010
3:14 pm
If the Hawks come out and play a better, more entertaining brand of ball with the same cast of characters, then we’ll know that Sund held onto Woody too long.
Melvin
July 14th, 2010
3:14 pm
Co-sign Sleepy…