Atlanta Hawks: Are you starvin’ to send away Marvin?
Las Vegas–I know my blog people have been trying to trade Marvin (and Bibby) with every conceivable and inconceivable permutation of fantasy deals. My favorite thing is when the proposals go like this: “Marvin and Bibby are terrible and their contracts are burdens. The Hawks should trade them for (fill in the blank with better players with more reasonable contracts).”
So do you want Marvin gone so badly that you’d swap him for 38-year old Shaq as a two-year-rental-at-most off the bench? David Aldridge reports that the Cavs are dangling Shaq in a sign-and-trade proposal for Marvin. Since the Hawks could just sign Shaq using the mid-level exception if they want him (which still isn’t certain) the Cavs presumably are counting on Atlanta’s desire to shed Marvin’s contract as the primary motivation for a trade.
Assuming Shaq gets the two-year deal he wants, Atlanta’s savings would total the difference between their salaries over the next two seasons plus the final two seasons of Marvin’s deal (assuming he exercises his option year)
For 2010-11, the Hawks’ savings would be the difference between the $6.7 million owed Marvin and Shaq’s new salary. For 2011-12, the savings would be Marvin’s $7.5 million salary minus Shaq’s salary. Shaq and Marvin would both be off the books in 2012-13, when Marvin makes $8.3 million, and the Hawks wouldn’t be on the hook for Marvin’s $7.5 million option in 2013-14.
Since this is all premature talk at this point, I won’t get into how the Hawks would go about replacing Marvin in the lineup. The Hawks still aren’t sure if Shaq would be a good fit even if he is willing to take less than the mid-level. Also, Marvin still has support within the organization, with the hope that L.D.’s new system will make a big difference in his production.
As for Aldridge’s contention that the Hawks aren’t willing to pay much more than the minimum due to “budget limitations,” all I can tell you is that everything I’ve heard suggests they are willing to exceed the luxury-tax threshold for the right player(s). I get the feeling that player isn’t Shaq.
MC
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538 comments Add your comment
Astro Joe
July 14th, 2010
1:43 pm
Najeh, his “regression” was one year. A year where Josh, Al and Jamal took more shots than prior seasons (or Jamal took more than Flip). Not to mention that his salary is in line with several guys who are role players at best on their repsective teams. If they trade Marvin, do it to shed salary NEXT season and not to “bail out” on him as a player. Marvin is NOT Yunel Escobar.
olik
July 14th, 2010
1:44 pm
No way should the Hawks trade Marvin for Shaq. Marvin’s worth more, and Shaq will clog up the offense. The Cavs were better when Shaq was on the bench.
If I could trade Marvin for Biedrins to get some promising talent at C, then I’d do that; salaries are pretty close and Biedrins can get up and down the court, rebound, play D, etc.
Saabotager`
July 14th, 2010
1:48 pm
Be real!!! Marvin has done nothing but underachieved since he has been here. Marvin and Joe, before Jamal Crawford arrived, was the only players on the team given the green light by Woody. The name of the game is to win, not later but now. Waiting on Marvin to find himself is absurd. Marvin, Pachulia, and Jason Collins for Shaq and Antawn Jamison is doable.
STRETCH
July 14th, 2010
1:48 pm
Well im going over to the Braves blog…AT LEAST THEY ARE NOT SCARED TO MAKE MOVES!!!!!!
Dan's Dickau
July 14th, 2010
1:50 pm
Only the dummies are really going to want this deal.
ADR
July 14th, 2010
1:50 pm
i would rather see them try to work out a trade with the golden state warriors for marvin- we should just sign shaq with the mle- this would not be a good move
SOUTHERN HAWK
July 14th, 2010
1:51 pm
better keep Marvin for now unless its for a player of like talent
drmaryb
July 14th, 2010
1:53 pm
IDK about this! Maybe if we can get an unprotected 1st Round Pick & Maurice Williams or Variejo too.
Or, fanagle Raja Bell on the side.
ADR
July 14th, 2010
1:54 pm
i would say trade with golden state to try and get biedrins and ronny turiaf- marvin and bibby gone
ADR
July 14th, 2010
1:55 pm
wait sorry turiaf is gone- biedrins and brandan wright if we can
DP
July 14th, 2010
1:56 pm
I don’t get it. If the Hawks were looking to dump Marvin Williams, why wouldn’t they have done it before they were forced to make a decision on Josh Childress?
kirkinga
July 14th, 2010
1:57 pm
This must be Bad Trade Day in Atlanta. I sure hope this remains a rumor.
Jerry West
July 14th, 2010
1:58 pm
I’ve been wanting Biedrins for a while, and was hoping the rumors of GS’ interest in Marvin was real so that it could go down. But they signed Dorrell Wright to play the 3 (for about half what big Marv makes), so I doubt they’d want Marvin now. Then again, it’s the Warriors, so who knows.
tyger
July 14th, 2010
2:00 pm
Hell No, Marvin Can’t Go!
Are you kidding me? Marvin is a #2 pick w/ only 4 yrs. under his belt. He was drafted at 19 yrs. old. You took him that young w/ the intent to develop him for the future. Now, the future is here and you’re ready to dump him before he can even get his feet together.
This is precisely the type of short-term thinking that doomed the Hawks for years. Overall, Marvin is a legitimate 6′9, 230 forward with one of the better all-around skill sets you will find in the league. Surely, he hasn’t skyrocketed like a Durant, but he hasn’t bottomed out like a Shelden Williams or lost his mind like Beasley either.
Remember, although not the proximate cause, the team got better every year with Marvin. He is a strong defender, good shooter and team player. His offense is retarded by deferring to Iso Joe and stupid Woody sitting him in the 4th qtr. despite his length and ability to get to the FT line.
Is he untouchable? Of course not, but you don’t trade a 23 yr. old #2 pick for a retiring player either. Marvin for Tyson Chandler? Yes! Marvin for Okafor? Probably. But not for Shaq or Big Z.
Shaq will take the MLE. He has little choice, if he wants more money, give him incentives based on minutes played and playoff success. On the other hand, you don’t want an underpaid grumpy Shaq either.
And if sign-trade is the way to go, throw Bibby, ZaZa and Evans to the Cavs, not Marvin. Although, personally, I love ZaZa but wouldn’t Shaq replace ZaZa anyway? I honestly think we can have our cake and eat it too. I’d keep ZaZa and Marvin but toss Bibby and Mo. If they need warm bodies re-sign Joe Smith and send him back we didn’t use him anyway.
Does this mean we don’t want Shaq? No. We need Shaq, but not at the cost of Marvin – he still has too much upside. The Hawks are no longer in a position to piss away top 5 lotto picks. We wont see another top 5 five pick hopefully this decade. Last thing we need is for Marvin to get his confidence up in Cleveland and come back to burn us, while Shaq is long gone doing reality TV.
dap01
July 14th, 2010
2:00 pm
Let see, Marvin for Shaq, who does not want to come here. Shaq has worn out his welcome with EVERY team that he has played.
drmaryb
July 14th, 2010
2:00 pm
Stretch
Just Bounce Bruh! We don’t need a salutation! Hurry Up!
Realist
July 14th, 2010
2:02 pm
Will the Cavs take Josh Smith, too? Or is that too much to ask?
ADR
July 14th, 2010
2:02 pm
i agree we should only get rid of marvin for a starting caliber player- or a serious 7 footer
Najeh Davenpoop
July 14th, 2010
2:02 pm
“Marvin is NOT Yunel Escobar.”
Yunel is way, way better and more accomplished than Marvin.
drmaryb
July 14th, 2010
2:03 pm
What happened to ALL the Marvin haters now?
Stay True to your Boo!
ADR
July 14th, 2010
2:03 pm
yeah that was a terrible trade for the braves long term wise- stupid frank wren
Matt
July 14th, 2010
2:05 pm
It would be completely absurd to trade our starting small forward and best perimeter defender for a 39 year old bench player that is a marginal improvement over Zaza at best.
Grandad
July 14th, 2010
2:06 pm
Dallas says they now have trade chips;
Alex Ajinca – take a look see:
http://www.youtube.com/user/devirieu
I Heart Atlanta
July 14th, 2010
2:06 pm
HELLLLL NOOOOO
Rev in Tampa
July 14th, 2010
2:06 pm
I agree with Astro Joe’s two posts. As important as I think it is for the Hawks to obtain Shaq’s presence in the paint, the Hawks should not plug one hole by opening another. Offer Shaq the MLE AND a 2-year guaranteed contract. Let him start if it is a deal breaker. Who wants him shooting free-throws at the end of a game anyway? But if Shaq is unwilling to come then move on.
The Hawks must win now or not in the next decade. They cannot afford to take the step back that a hole in the #3 position would represent.
Big Ray
July 14th, 2010
2:06 pm
I don’t see a point in getting hyped up about this deal. It won’t happen.
In a somewhat related matter, we’ll end up signing the cheapest guys that nobody wanted at the end of the summer. And then complain about their uselessness throughout next season.
ADR
July 14th, 2010
2:09 pm
we should trade marvin for young big men- not a 38 yr old
jeff
July 14th, 2010
2:09 pm
It is a proposed trade it is not a done deal. I agree, it isn’t the time to trade Marvin. He is 24 and has been in a non-existent offensive system the entire time. I say wait and see what he does this year. I still don’t think will accept a bench role so it becomes a mute point. Both players have to agree in a Sign and trade and I don’t think Shaq will agree.
On a second thought maybe we should go after Allen I. He only made $850,000 last year. We need another scorer and he has proven he can score.
honest_abe
July 14th, 2010
2:10 pm
I love me some duck…. Butt? Marvin sucks we all know this. He stumbles whenever he drives, no lower body strength which is confusing considering the size of his ass.. He can’t post smaller defenders since his only move on the block is ugly fading jump hook shot. He gets credit for his defense but all I see is someone who more often than not ends up on the floor.. Having said all this, he’s a nice shooter from 15 to 18 feet.. In order to maximize his worth he shouldve been ran off some screens as well as some pick and pop.. Woody never ever thought of this so marv was usually left occupying a wing all by his lonesome hoping a defender would come his way so he wouldn’t be completely useless.. I think LD will create some opportinities for marvin in the half court.. If he can nail a few jumpers it’ll make his drive a tad more effective and since he can’t finish we need to be glad at least he can make free throws….. An offensive threat along with his decent ability to rebound make him a valuable commodity definitely not some scrub u trade for a jas been “diesel”
yosisterbrother
July 14th, 2010
2:11 pm
I agree that Marvin Gaye Williams has been underwhelming but he is not horrible. He’s better than both Matt Barnes and Ronnie Brewer. The Hawks should sign Shaq outright with the MLE and then try to acquire Brewer or Barnes with the trade exception to back up Marvin.
The X-Factor is Mo freakin Evans. His player option had us stuck with him and he plays SG (which we now have 4 of) and he’s the odd man out. How did he get a player option anyway? That option should be for star players not bench players. He handcuffed another 2.5 million from us.
But just think with no Mo Evans, Jamal Crawford expiring. We’d have like 14 mill to try for CARMELO next offseason. Couple that with an ability to maybe trade Bibby and Marvin’s contracts and still re-sign Al Horford. Maybe though straight speculation.
coo coo bird fan
July 14th, 2010
2:11 pm
I like Marvin, but Shaq at 50 I think would be more productive. And although most of you would disagree w/ me I see him being a better fit for this team. We dont need another outside shooter w/ an average jumper and limited rebounding at a premium rebound position on the floor. Rebounder space eater and something to take there minds off of Josh so he can be the human fly swatter we know he can be. Bring on Shaq.
ADR
July 14th, 2010
2:11 pm
if we are looking for a scorer we should go after tracy mcgrady- he is fully recovered now and is ready to prove ppl wrong next yr- i think we could give him round 2 of his great career, tmac aint done
STRETCH
July 14th, 2010
2:11 pm
dr mary b is it?
What is bruh, and how long did it take you to figure out how to use SALUTATION in a sentence? Doctors dont talk like that do they?
Mitch
July 14th, 2010
2:12 pm
We seem to want to over pay for everything in Atlanta! Other teams can get players like Childress and Camby for 2nd round pick but us, its 124 million for Joe and our starting small forward for a 38 year old Shaq.
dap01
July 14th, 2010
2:14 pm
MC: You do a great job bringing us information. Excellent. But was this article simply meant to stir us up?
ChrisW
July 14th, 2010
2:15 pm
Marvin is talented and still young enough that he can improve – let’s see him under LD before leaping this time!!!
Grandad
July 14th, 2010
2:16 pm
Michael Cunningham:
I’m not trying to come across as ~high falutin’~ but with a somewhat
trained eye [coaching / 30 + years] &
listening to Teaguer + reading about LD’s background,
I’m pretty sure his offense @ least uses basic “Princeton” concepts..
terrell
July 14th, 2010
2:17 pm
Why give up Marvin, when we could trade him for some depth(pg, sf), and just sign Shaq str8 up? Makes no sense. If we’re going to move him, make it a GOOD move.
KGB
July 14th, 2010
2:17 pm
The hawks would so regret this deal. Marvin would avg 20+ in Cleveland. He’s just needs to be incorporated in to the Hawks offense and he will flourish. If he stays in ATL then mark my words, you will see the Marvin we all thought we should have seen in the past.
Hawks Hack
July 14th, 2010
2:17 pm
It all comes down to the ineptitude of ASG. TAKE NOTE: I have never seen a team with poor ownership win a championship. The quality of ownership supercedes the value of a team’s roster. PERIOD. We Will never win a ring with ASG at the helm!!!
Stuart
July 14th, 2010
2:20 pm
No, don’t do this. That would be crazy. Marvin didn’t shoot well last year, but when approximately 2% of the plays are run for him and he never gets touches, how can he get into a rhythm? I think he’ll improve this year. This might be a possibility if we still had Chills, but I don’t see how or why you would possibly execute this trade. Saving money? You’ll lose a lot of money when the Hawks exits the playoffs earlier due to the large gap at the 3 spot…
The only reason people are ‘trading’ Bibby and Marvin is because they’re ideally getting someone like CP3 in return, which isn’t going to happen..
Pragmatic Reality
July 14th, 2010
2:20 pm
Marvin is not bad, he just has not lived up to where he got drafted. He still has potential, especially in a new offensive system, so why give him up unless you make an excellent trade. Getting Shaq for one or two year rental near the end of his career with his talent well below where it used to be, is not something in return. Remember, Marvin was a starter on a 50+ winning team, he has long arms to defend and has the potential to be an excellent perimeter shooter and finisher around the basket. Bottom line, no way should the Hawks get rid of him without getting an excellent player in return in some way.
drmaryb
July 14th, 2010
2:21 pm
Stretch
You promised to go away (your words – not mine). Dang! What happened?
terrell
July 14th, 2010
2:21 pm
And what if Marvin shines under Byron Scott? Please dont do this Sund. Now if they offer Varejao in a package deal with Shaq for Marvin/Bibby/Zaza, then hell yeah. But Marvin for Shaq is ludicrous.
O'Brien
July 14th, 2010
2:22 pm
MC,
everything I’ve heard suggests they are willing to exceed the luxury-tax threshold for the right player(s). I get the feeling that player isn’t Shaq.
Then who do you believe is that player? And is such a player available?
Because I am starting to get the feeling that Sund and the ASG have been setting us up from before the draft. Only to let us down (which we are used to in Hawksville).
One thing fans need to keep in mind. Just because player X changes teams and blows up, there is no guarantee that he would have blown up if he hadnt changed teams.
yosisterbrother
July 14th, 2010
2:23 pm
don’t trade Marvin!!
that’s my motto from now. I used to want him traded but now he must stay. If he’s traded for Shaq that is a DISASTER for the organization.
1 you don’t trade 24 y.o. for someone at the end of their career.
I could see if this was Shaq 2 or 3 years ago but the truth is that he’s about to retire.
Marvin avg’s double figures for his 5 year career. That’s not bad at all especially with people like Bibby, JJ, and Crawford chucking up so many shots. He can rebound and shoot free throws and is athletic. He can play defense if they had a scheme instead of switching every pick. He’s 6′9
Atticus
July 14th, 2010
2:23 pm
N-O.
MannyT
July 14th, 2010
2:24 pm
You just traded Chills. JJ is the only other guy on the roster that I’d even consider to guard SF for extended time. Hang on to Marvin. Shaq will sell a few tix, but we lose more games to overpay an old center.
Just say NO to the Cavs.
Marcus
July 14th, 2010
2:24 pm
Question: If Marvin gets dealt for Shaq, who fills in the starting SF role?
Smoove’s jump shot and perimeter defense probably won’t improve enough to slide to the ‘3′ … Mo Evans would be tremendously overwhelmed as a starting ‘3′ …. even if we were to entice Matt Barnes (FA for ORL) his age (30 vs. 24 for Marvin) may put him in the short term solution category, also dependent on whether Barnes is considered a starter or a super-sub.
I say keep Marvin. Work out other options at C.
Rufus1
July 14th, 2010
2:26 pm
Don’t trade Marvin
The Cavs GM must be reading ROD from College Parks and JeJe posts if he thinks the Hawks will Trade Marvin for Shaq!!!!
BLIND HATRED UNDERMINDS RATIONAL THOUGHT….12PTS, 5RBS, 24YRS AND A GOOD WING DEFENDER FOR A 39 YEAR OLD, 400LBS CLOWN IS A BAD TRADE!!!