Atlanta Hawks: Are you starvin’ to send away Marvin?

Las Vegas–I know my blog people have been trying to trade Marvin (and Bibby) with every conceivable and inconceivable permutation of fantasy deals. My favorite thing is when the proposals go like this: “Marvin and Bibby are terrible and their contracts are burdens. The Hawks should trade them for (fill in the blank with better players with more reasonable contracts).”

So do you want Marvin gone so badly that you’d swap him for 38-year old Shaq as a two-year-rental-at-most off the bench? David Aldridge reports that the Cavs are dangling Shaq in a sign-and-trade proposal for Marvin. Since the Hawks could just sign Shaq using the mid-level exception if they want him (which still isn’t certain) the Cavs presumably are counting on Atlanta’s desire to shed Marvin’s contract as the primary motivation for a trade.

Assuming Shaq gets the two-year deal he wants, Atlanta’s savings would total the difference between their salaries over the next two seasons plus the final two seasons of Marvin’s deal (assuming he exercises his option year)

For 2010-11, the Hawks’ savings would be the difference between the $6.7 million owed Marvin and Shaq’s new salary. For 2011-12, the savings would be Marvin’s $7.5 million salary minus Shaq’s salary. Shaq and Marvin would both be off the books in 2012-13, when Marvin makes $8.3 million, and the Hawks wouldn’t be on the hook for Marvin’s $7.5 million option in 2013-14.

Since this is all premature talk at this point, I won’t get into how the Hawks would go about replacing Marvin in the lineup. The Hawks still aren’t sure if Shaq would be a good fit even if he is willing to take less than the mid-level. Also, Marvin still has support within the organization, with the hope that L.D.’s new system will make a big difference in his production.

As for Aldridge’s contention that the Hawks aren’t willing to pay much more than the minimum due to “budget limitations,” all I can tell you is that everything I’ve heard suggests they are willing to exceed the luxury-tax threshold for the right player(s). I get the feeling that player isn’t Shaq.

MC

538 comments Add your comment

bigdave

July 14th, 2010
1:04 pm

hmm… wouldnt call this one a no-brainer..

C. Moore

July 14th, 2010
1:05 pm

MARVIN FOR SHAQ!!!!! ILL TAKE ILL TAKE!!! It makes sense. Im sure Shaq would be traded by the trade deadline anyway!

Dirty Bird Zone

July 14th, 2010
1:10 pm

First option – Shaq with out trading Marvin (use those 2nd round picks)/Kurt Thomas FA
Second option – Brad Miller/Kurt Thomas as FA
Third option – Brad Miller FA/Shaq sign/trade for Marvin
Fourth – K. Brown/Kurt Thomas

Blameless

July 14th, 2010
1:11 pm

Yes. Marvin is a big disappointment. It’s not that he doesn’t have ability, it seems that he lacks gumption. Ship ‘im out of here. Git along little doggie.

Sara

July 14th, 2010
1:11 pm

I would trade Marvin, but not for Shaq.

Rock Preston

July 14th, 2010
1:12 pm

Hollydid

July 14th, 2010
1:12 pm

There was a Betty White movie about Marvin a few years ago called “Fake Placid.”

TheeYo

July 14th, 2010
1:14 pm

If Marvin is traded for Shaq, we better make sure we lock up a solid SF, such as Matt Barnes or Mike Miller (his Miami deal isnt finalized). Mo Evans is not a sufficient starter at SF full time

REALIST

July 14th, 2010
1:14 pm

Rick Sund’s secretary can make this trade, and wake up a hero in GA. tomorrow mornig. Can you say PROMOTION

Gilley

July 14th, 2010
1:15 pm

Marvin can be a 20 ppg scorer if given the chance but he would have to be the go-to guy. Meaning he lacks efficiency when he doesn’t get the FGA. When Joe went down 2 years ago, Marvin avg 20 ppg in those 2 games ON THE ROAD. So I have faith in him but his Potential does us no good. I am okay with trading him.

Fresh

July 14th, 2010
1:15 pm

MC,

I don’t like this deal one bit. Hawks, find another way to get Shaq. I just get a bad feeling about this one…I hope it stays just a rumor.

yoursporthouse.com

July 14th, 2010
1:15 pm

I would trade Marvin for a bag of Garrett’s popcorn…

yoursporthouse.com

July 14th, 2010
1:16 pm

Marvin is a bum..please trade him, please, please, please..

SWAT Native

July 14th, 2010
1:17 pm

If the Hawks dump a 24-year old Marvin Williams without giving him a chance to play for LD, they’re making a big mistake. The only way I would do it is to get a sure-fire starter that fills a key need.

yosisterbrother

July 14th, 2010
1:17 pm

why trade Marvin for shaq when you can get Shaq straight up? that’s just dumb…payroll relief for what? there’s no one out there to get and we would have a void at SF….bad trade proposal

BigCaliDawg

July 14th, 2010
1:18 pm

I’ve always considered Marvin as a Billy Owens type of player. Athletic, big, and skilled, but not a scorer. Prefers to pass over shoot. I think the “iso Joe” kind of left him on an island offensively, cuz he wouldn’t just chuck it up himself.

He might fit in better with more of a motion, ball movement offense.

Hey Michael

July 14th, 2010
1:18 pm

Speaking of new systems, what is Drew’s? He’s spoken so vaguely about it, I got the impression he was just flapping his gums until he could get to Amazon.com and Google “basketball motion offense.”

ATL in Salvador, Brazil

July 14th, 2010
1:19 pm

No! I do not like this. As much as I feel that the Hawks need a big man, we cannot do this at the expense of Marvin. Who will start in his place? I would have liked this deal if we kept Childress. Are we plugging in Mo Evans in Marvin’s place at the 3? Doesn’t sound good to me. Are we sliding Smoove down to the 3 for vast periods of the game? Doesn’t sound good to me. As we moving Crawford into the starting lineup and losing our scoring potential off the bench plus causing those chemistry problems that JJ, Horford and Smoove have talking about? Doesn’t sound good to me.

UGA

July 14th, 2010
1:19 pm

I would NOT do this deal!!

Give Marvin a chance in the new system. I think we will see a HUGE difference.

ClassicHawks

July 14th, 2010
1:19 pm

YOU DO NOT TRADE MARVIN WILLIAMS FOR SHAQUILLE ONEAL!! YOU HOWEVER TRADE HIM FOR ANDERSON VAREJO OR WHATEVER THAT KIDS NAME IS!! HE LOOKS LIKE SIDE SHOW BOB…LOL!!

ed davis = marvin williams

July 14th, 2010
1:20 pm

Marvin has enough potential that we can get more for him than just Shaq. How about a marvin/bibby for mo williams/shaq deal? I think Mo could run our offense pretty well, shoot first type of point guard that the Hawks seem to love. If not, maybe sign Shaq or Brad Miller with the MLE and trade Marvin for a ham sandwich.

UGA

July 14th, 2010
1:20 pm

It’s hard to be productive when you have to stand around watching Joe and Jamal dribble the ball…..

nique

July 14th, 2010
1:20 pm

sign brad miller and keep marvin. think miller would be a better option than shaq anyway. plus if (i know it’s a big if) marvin could step up his game in ld’s system this team could make some real advances.

Section 303

July 14th, 2010
1:20 pm

I would not trade Marvin for Shaq. For one, I do not really want Shaq here in Atlanta. Two, Marvin can still contribute. I don’t think he will ever live up to the expectations of a #2 pick. But, he should not just be given away, either. If the Hawks trade him to the Cavs for Shaq, then, in my mind, that is just giving him away.

I would rather see guys like Brad Miller or Brown in here, assuming they would not ask too much. Kurt Thomas would be fine, too. That guy proved to be a bad ass in the playoff series with the Bucks. I think the Hawks need someone like that desperately.

I am willing to bet that Shaq would be a major disruption if he were a Hawk. I have my doubts that he even takes the organization seriously. A proven winner, like the Spurs, would be the type of franchise Shaq would behave for. He won’t to that for the Hawks.

Keep Marvin, for now. Don’t just trade him for the sake of trading him.

Show me state

July 14th, 2010
1:22 pm

I wouldn’t trade marvin for shaq…..even tho marvin has been struggling….we still need him for his athleticism…when joe had some bad games….marvin stepped it up….so he’s still considered a role player in the hawks system…besides this trade is not worth it….a 38 year old for a 24 year old? Smh….not worth it….we’d be better off getting shaq as a f.a., kwame brown, or brad miller…..ASG please don’t make this mistake by trading marvin for shaq…..Go Hawks…

Aaron

July 14th, 2010
1:22 pm

I get the feeling that the players the ASG would spend the tax for…aren’t available.

Awfully convenient…

joBjo

July 14th, 2010
1:22 pm

I’m not ready to give up on Marvin, yet. He deserves a- nother chance. Sck is a one year option, maybe 2. If you want Sck just sign him. geez.

BigCaliDawg

July 14th, 2010
1:22 pm

Why is it always a ham sandwich?

Never peanut butter, pastrami, or even a veggie…….(w/ cream cheese)

UGA

July 14th, 2010
1:26 pm

Keep Marvin!!

Most Improved player candidate this year! Seriously.

Are we going to depend on Mo Evans to guard LeBron….

Hopeful

July 14th, 2010
1:27 pm

Put JJ at the 3 and start JC1 at the 2. JC2 becomes the 6th man. JS at the 4 and AL at the 5. JT at the 1.

Khao$

July 14th, 2010
1:27 pm

For an aging Shaq? Not a chance. The only way I would consider it is if Sund is going to bring a comparable talent into the mix. I don’t think the ASG will sign a check to do that. Like it or not, Marvin is our best option at SF right now. Plus, one of our strengths is the ability for our bigs to run the break. With Shaq in and Marvin out, we’re hurt in that regard and we lose some athleticism.

If we can get Shaq without trading Marvin, do it. The only way I trade Marvin is to a) upgrade the position or b) create a package deal that will bring in an impact player.

I’m no Marvin fan and I’m very open to trading him. However, I don’t think trading him for a 38 year old Shaq is the right trade.

GStateBen

July 14th, 2010
1:28 pm

I know we’ve all been disappointed in Marvin but let’s compare players at his position that were drafted behind him:

#2 pick Marvin’s Career Stats: 11.9 ppg, 5.4 rebounds per, 1.4 assists per
#6 pick Martell Webster: 9.4 ppg, 3.3 rebounds per, 0.8 assists per
#7 pick Charlie Villanueva: 13.1 ppg, 6.0 rebounds per, 0.7 assists per
#12 pick Yaroslav Korolev: 1.2 ppg, 0.3 rebounds per, 0.4 assists per
#15 pick Antoine Wright: 5.6 ppg, 2.3 rebounds per, 1.0 assists per

The only one behind him at his position that you have an argument with would be Danny Granger. Let’s be honest, he came from New Mexico and no one was picking him at #2. The fan base needs to move past the fact that he isn’t Chris Paul or Deron Williams. Unfortunately, there are many that will not.

Fresh

July 14th, 2010
1:28 pm

I bet this the type of move ASG is willing to make SMH. When you don’t want them to do something, they go right along and do it.

femhawkfan

July 14th, 2010
1:29 pm

Call me crazy, but I still haven’t given up on Marvin. With the exception of Al and Smoov(and that took time) very few players that started out under Woodson have excelled. I think Marvin deserves a chance to prove himself with Drew. Shaq is no longer “The Diesel.” He is more like regular unleaded. Additionally, the Hawks are cool laid back guys and Shaq is completely opposite. I believe Shaq would clash with a lot of our guys. #imjustsaying

♥Mz. Hawkdafied♥

July 14th, 2010
1:30 pm

Heck no I would be pissed to the highest point of pisstivity if the Hawks chose to get rid of Marvin for Shaq.

Marvin still has fans that actually show up at Philips Arena aka The Highlight Factory. Believe that.

Michael Cunningham

July 14th, 2010
1:31 pm

@Hey Michael: “Speaking of new systems, what is Drew’s?”

i’ve been trying to pin it down out here in Vegas but it’s tough for two reasons. one is that he says he hasn’t installed it all. two, this is summer league, and it’s hard to see what it’s supposed to look like with this roster and the often-ragged nature of these games.

404atlhoops

July 14th, 2010
1:31 pm

I agree with Sec 303. If the Hawks are going to trade Marvin, they need to get more than a 38yr old back center in the twilight of his career. I want Shaq but not at the expense of giving up Marvin to get him. With Dallas picking up Chadler via trade, Shaq’s options are becoming limited. They are few contending teams that can pay him what he wants. I would hold out on Shaq otherwise this potential trade has bad move written all over it.

Jesse

July 14th, 2010
1:33 pm

A trade like this only makes since to me if the Hawks can also find a way to get Mo Williams through a combination of additional players.

Najeh Davenpoop

July 14th, 2010
1:33 pm

As long as they find a good perimeter defender and/or shooter to fill in at SF, I’m fine with it. Swap Marvin for Shaq and bring in Matt Barnes and/or Ronnie Brewer and/or Josh Howard for part of the mid-level.

Michael Cunningham

July 14th, 2010
1:33 pm

@ Fresh: “I don’t like this deal one bit. Hawks, find another way to get Shaq. I just get a bad feeling about this one…I hope it stays just a rumor.”

another way is to just sign him outright if he will take the MLE or less. i’m still not convinced the Hawks can be convinced he’d accept a bench role.

Worm

July 14th, 2010
1:33 pm

Bobcats will cut eric Dampier..He can be had at a bargain price..rebound and play defense

ed davis = marvin williams

July 14th, 2010
1:35 pm

Marvin has been awaiting a breakout year for the past 2 or 3 years, and after drafting him in fantasy basketball hoping for this awakening, sadly I don’t think it’s coming in the Hawks system. He could excel in a place like Golden State with his athleticism – they just got David Lee, so how about a trade for Biedrins? The hawks could use his rebounding.

Astro Joe

July 14th, 2010
1:35 pm

One thing’s for sure you DO NOT give Shaq more than the MLE AND a 2-year guaranteed contract. Where’s the negotiation in that deal? It’s one or the other (and I would vote for a team option in the 2nd year). Sund has been a shrewd negotiator since joining the Hawks, no need to stop now for an aging center who may do more harm than good in the locker-room.

ryan

July 14th, 2010
1:36 pm

I not a big ASG fan but i think they are trying erase the mistakes Billy Knight and Mike Woodson maid passing on CP3 getting rid of Chidress and Marvin is that first step.

Fresh

July 14th, 2010
1:36 pm

Lol!! Can’t blame the Cavs for trying though…

Go find another dummy Cleveland!

Michael Cunningham

July 14th, 2010
1:36 pm

@Aaron: “I get the feeling that the players the ASG would spend the tax for…aren’t available. Awfully convenient…”

it sure is starting to seem that way.

Najeh Davenpoop

July 14th, 2010
1:37 pm

Shaq may be 38, but the Hawks entered “win-now” mode as soon as they gave Joe that contract. It’s been five years. The Hawks are past the point where they can afford to wait on Marvin to fulfill his potential, especially in light of his regression since signing his new deal.

Hawk-Man-Too

July 14th, 2010
1:39 pm

The Hawks were starving to get rid of Marvin……….But…….Shaq will be a Quick Trip……………

Mike P

July 14th, 2010
1:40 pm

Marvin isn’t the problem, the problem is the $120 million paid for a regular season player.

Dr. Warren

July 14th, 2010
1:42 pm

Best way to make Marvin an all-star would be to trade him. That’s the way it is with Atlanta pro athletes. Can’t we hire some alternate voice to come in and tutor this guy before giving up on him? No Childress or Marvin would hurt the Hawks, plain and simple.