Atlanta Hawks: Camp chatter

Emptying the notebook . . . .

Some observations and chatter after two open practice sessions at Philips Arena:

– The Hawks haven’t offered Shaq a contract yet. There’s still the open question of what kind of role he’s willing to accept on his new team. The Hawks also are said to be looking at Brad Miller, Ilgauskas, Kurt Thomas, Kwame Brown and Anthony Tolliver.

Johan Petro was a possibility before he agreed with New Jersey on a three-year, $10 million deal. That should give you an ideal that it’s still a seller’s market for centers.

L.D.’s summer plan for Teague:

“What I told him is basically I am going to turn him loose. I want him to be himself. I don’t want him to be concerned about making mistakes and missing shots because I have all the confidence in the world in his ability. He can break the defense down, he can get into the interior of the defense. He knows how to make plays. He is just one of the guys on our team with that breakdown ability. I want to allow him to be himself and play carefree and go out and have fun. No restrictions for him.”

– Teague will make his summer league debut but already seems hip to the difference between that and the real thing. “It is totally different when you play with guys who have been in the league a while. It makes the game a whole lot easier for you. But the summer league, it’s just going out there and showing what you can do. Show that you have the ability to run a team and play at this level.”

– He’s ready to be turned loose: “I think that’s the easiest way to play when you are with guys you are not familiar with. Just get up and down. Start getting stops and push it. The offense that we run, it is kind of complicated. You know guys are not going to remember it when they get in the game and start going one on one.”

– Teague on L.D.’s offense:

“I can’t really explain it. It’s kind of like a Princeton motion offense. Everybody is going to get shots, everybody is going to get touches. You can do everything out of it. You can get down-screens, pick-and-rolls. It is kind of a unique offense. It is perfect for our team. We’ve got a lot of guys who can handle the ball on our team and it gives them a chance to show what they can do. And you also get to move the ball. We didn’t get a lot of movement last year and that was something that hurt us. The offense makes it where that isolation thing is not there anymore unless you get it at the top of the key and the shot clock is winding down. Then you have some players who are really good in isolation like Joe. He’s going to add to the offense and have plays like that. But most of the time it is movement, back screens and cuts, posts for Smoove and Al and pick-and-rolls.”

Pape Sy (pronounced “Pop See”) is getting positive early reviews. It seems he really did kind of come out of nowhere–he said he didn’t work out for any other teams, though Milwaukee had some interest.

– Pape said he played both guard positions in France. So how did a 6-7 French kid become a point guard? Credit his mother Fatim, whom Pape said coaches youth players in France. “When I was young I wasn’t really tall. [But] my dad is taller than me [so] my mom knows that I would be tall. So she [taught] me how to handle the ball and after that I grew.”

– Pape is legitimately 6-7 and quick with long arms. Those are the tools for a good defender and Pape also seems to have the tenacity for it. “He’s a good defender,” L.D. said. “Ask Jeff Teague. Took [the ball] from him. [Teague] got a little lackdasical with the ball and he just took it from him. He’s a gritty defender. He’s got good size, he’s got long arms and he’s got an aggression about him. You can’t be lax around him.”

– Chances are Pape and Sergiy Gladyr are headed back to their European teams next season, Le Havre in the French first division and Bàsquet Manresa of the Spanish ACB League respectively. Both players have a year left on their contracts. The Hawks could buy out their deals but they have no plans to do so. “Now is not the right time,” said Hawks assistant GM Dave Pendergraft. “We brought them over here to get experience. The game plan is for them to learn the system and get them some exposure to some NBA-level players.”

– Sergiy can really shoot it. “[Spain] is a perfect place for him,” Pendergraft said. “It is a good league, arguably the second-best league in the world, and he gets to play.”

– L.D. on Jordan Crawford (how’s JC2 for a nickname?): “This kid has speed, he has quickness, he can make shots. He does a great job reading the defense. I see him being a real good plus to us because the kid can score. He has that uncanny ability with scoring, whether out on the perimeter or getting to the basket. He finds ways to score. He seems to be a pretty clever basketball player. I am excited about him.”

– L.D. isn’t turning him loose like Teague, though. He wants Crawford to get used to his likely role with the Hawks, which means being a low-volume, high-efficiency scorer. “I know he was a big-time scorer in college and I don’t want to take away his aggressiveness,” Drew said. “But shot selection is a big key at this level. I will allow him to be himself but I will be letting him know if I think it’s a bad shot.”

– Here is what Kelvin Sampson, Crawford’s coach at IU, had to say on that topic when I talked to him for a Crawford story: “Sometimes talent can be a blessing and sometimes it can be something that’s tough to handle. Talented kids have a tendency to think they can do anything. The thing I tried to impress upon Jordan was shot selection. He thought they were all good shots. He would say, ‘Coach, I can make that.’ Well, that’s fine but 1 out of 10 is probably not good enough. Give me 8 out of 10 or at least 6 out of 10.”

– Crawford looked to be winded during the two practices that were open to media. That’s no surprise since L.D. put the players through some pretty intense workout sessions and it’s doubtful Crawford has gone this hard since March.

– It looks like RandMo, James Augustine, and Alade Aminu all will get a shot to make the roster. L.D. on RandMo coming out for summer league: “I thought it was a great gesture on his behalf. Some guys who have been in the league a few years, their pride won’t allow them to play in the summer league. But he sees it as an opportunity. I tip my hat to him for that. I am going to give him an opportunity to show what we can do.”

– The Hawks have been a surprisingly slow-paced team considering their stable of athletes. L.D. said he wants to change that. “I would, with that athletes we have,” he said. “We have got guys that can get up and down the floor. We have got big men that can handle the ball. We have go to rebound to do that. And if you [run] you have got to be smart, selective. You don’t want to go crazy with that.”

Smoove stopped by Philips and watched some of the practice. What’s he been working on this summer? “I have been looking at some of my old tape. I am still studying what I need to work on. Back when I was playing and then to now, it looks a whole lot different. I always have room to grow. You will always be a student of the game as long as you play. There is always room for improvement.”

– Josh is on board with the plan to add a big. “To have somebody that can be down there and be strong and dominant, somebody that is going to rebound and finish around the bucket and catch the ball. Me and Al can take care of the rest. We could use a little more help, a little more depth. I think we do extremely well with a lot of the bigs in the league. We seem to struggle with guys like Dwight and . . . just pretty much Dwight. We need somebody who can help us with that if we have to face him in the playoffs again.”

– Like Shaq, for instance? “He definitely brings that maturity and the leadership. He definitely brings that experience we need. He has won titles. He’s been there in the postseason so he knows what it takes to win and I think he would be a good guy for the locker room.”

– Smoove on the Miami SuperFriends: “Those guys have to make it work. We have a group of guys that have been together for a long time and we know what each other likes to do. From that standpoint, I think we have the upside on them.”

– L.D. expects new lead assistant Lester Conner to help develop a defensive mentality for the Hawks. Said Conner: “They’ve won 50-plus games the last two years but when they get to the second round they kind of stumble. When you get to the second round, you’ve got to bring the toughness and energy out of guys to get to the next level. We want to pattern ourselves after the Celtics, the Orlando Magic. You’ve got to play defense. If they don’t buy into that, it’s going to be the same thing. Our job as a staff is to get them to buy into that.”

– Conner will coach the summer league entry while L.D. observes.

– I’m out, blog people. Hope all of that info whets your appetite for a minute. I will check the comments later but right now a brotha needs a breather.

MC

326 comments Add your comment

I Heart Atlanta

July 11th, 2010
4:04 pm

Why not pursue Al harrington with the M.L.E. and then sign Ilgauskas for the vet min….

Grandad

July 11th, 2010
4:06 pm

WingNut

Ad absurdum, ad infinitum

terrell

July 11th, 2010
4:08 pm

Forgot Cavs GM(Chris Grant) was in Atlanta when Chills was drafted.

SteveW

July 11th, 2010
4:09 pm

Think the Hawks are waiting to hear from Childress before doing anything else but minimum deals. Why? Because if Childress decides to take the 4.8m (unlikely but possible), it pretty much precludes us from signing a couple of bigs at the vet minimum. This entire summer is hinging in a large part on Chilz right now.

SteveW

July 11th, 2010
4:10 pm

Oops – I meant to say “except sign a couple of bigs at the vet minimum” – My bad.

Najeh Davenpoop

July 11th, 2010
4:13 pm

Hmm… New Orleans signs Luther Head to a 2-year contract. Setting up a CP3 or Collison trade maybe? Or just insurance for a CP3 injury?

The Ayatollah

July 11th, 2010
4:16 pm

Why Charlie Ringo. You look like a ghost just walked over your grave.

My fight’s not with you, Holliday.

I beg to differ.

Uhhh, I was just foolin’ about.

I wasn’t..

Alright, Lunger..

The Ayatollah

July 11th, 2010
4:17 pm

Insurance, Najeh. CP3 trade will be difficult to pull off, and costly no matter what.

Shaq

July 11th, 2010
4:23 pm

it must be a lonely life when grandad/ayatollah asks and answers his own questions.

Grandad

July 11th, 2010
4:32 pm

“Kate, you’re not wearing a bustle: how lewd”
-Doc Holliday-

Najeh Davenpoop

July 11th, 2010
4:33 pm

Grizzlies are close to signing Tony Allen apparently.

Najeh Davenpoop

July 11th, 2010
4:37 pm

Marc Stein doesn’t think San Antonio will get Shaq. Presumably this makes the Hawks favorites by default to land him, although that’s no excuse for taking weeks to decide whether it’s the right move.

The Ayatollah

July 11th, 2010
4:45 pm

Agreed, Najeh.

Shaq (oops, I mean Truth Serum) is that all you have to say? You haven’t figured out who I am by now? I’m disappointed, considering I’m playing a bit of your game for once (I wanted to see if it’s as fun as you seem to think it is…you know, posting under a different name).

Only thing worst than that is you watching and reading each and every post we put up. Now I KNOW you’re bored, LOL.

The Ayatollah

July 11th, 2010
4:47 pm

I wonder who played the part of the devil?

Well, I’ll be damned.

Indeed you may sir…if you’re lucky.

d.carter

July 11th, 2010
4:47 pm

Playoff basketball is about execution and the half court game… Shaq is still a mis-match for any player in the league.. I wouldnt trade marvin because he does a solid job of defending Lebron and most 3’s in the league

d.carter

July 11th, 2010
4:49 pm

Trade Chills to the Wizards for YI and Mo Evans and Bibby for Shaq

Grandad

July 11th, 2010
4:50 pm

Would you guys trade Marv for Thabeet?
Works on trade machine.
I know, I know, they signed Rudy;
So would Marv be more valuable to them?
Thabeet’s gonna always be behind Gasol.
Tit for tat. [No pun]
Curious?
-OR-
Childress = same deal [Thabeet]?

The Ayatollah

July 11th, 2010
4:51 pm

Hmmmm. Didn’t watch much D-League, so not sure how well Thabeet stacks up. I know he’s 7′3″, a year more mature, and should be a shot-blocker any day of the week.

Grandad

July 11th, 2010
4:52 pm

Was I “the devil” or “the advocate”?

The Ayatollah

July 11th, 2010
4:53 pm

All the same, not a bad big man project if you invest in one. Don’t know if the Grizz do that trade, though.

dap01

July 11th, 2010
5:09 pm

I would love to get Thabeet. He may be slow to develop but he could be a monster one day.

I would even be willing to gamble on Kwame.

Come on Sund, address our needs.

JeJe

July 11th, 2010
5:11 pm

stop waiting on Shaq. if ASG decides he is too much to pay and Brad Miller goes to, let’s say, Chicago, then WTF are they gonna do? Get 50 year old No-Legs ilgauskas who will already be in South Beach?

Ken Strickland

July 11th, 2010
5:17 pm

Some of you don’t seem to have the common sense of a billy goat. You want to blame Sund for everything that happens, doesn’t happen, or hasn’t happened, especially if it’s something or someone you want or don’t want. Common sense should have told you by now most moves have to approved by the 7 member ASG ownership group, and maybe even Belkin and/or the courts. STOP LOOKING FOR SORRY “A” EXCUSES.

No matter how many times MCUNNINGHAM, and others, try to explain that there’s more to a sign and trade than just Sund wanting it to happen, we still get the same silly blame game from the same people. And for those who have a hair up their butt over signing Shaq, and are against us trying to sign Ilgouskas, I’ve compared their stats. I’m comparing Ilgauskas’ 08/09 stats as a starter, and his 09/10 stats coming off the bench(In parenthesis).

ILGAUSKAS-MPG-27.2(20.9), PPG-12.9(7.4), RPG-7.5(5.4), BPG-1.29(.78), APG-0.43(.80).
SHAQ——MPG-23.4, PPG-12.0, RPG-6.7, BPG-1.17, APG-1.5.

We know Ilgauskas can be productive coming off the bench, but we don’t know that about Shaq. We also know he won’t be a locker room distraction, and he can certainly score in more ways than Shaq. Therefore, since they are both similarly productive, why wouldn’t you want to consider signing Ilgouskas? After all, the Cavaliers won 66gms and made it to the NBA finals recently with him as their starter, and only 61 with Shaq. And Shaq hasn’t led anyone anywhere close to the finals since winning it with Miami.

Ken Strickland

July 11th, 2010
5:22 pm

Oh, I forgot to add, Ilgouska made $925,000 last yr and Shaq made $20M. When you compare their stars and their salaries, who would be stupid enough not to consider Ilgouskas?

JeJe

July 11th, 2010
5:23 pm

If Ilgy is cheap, sign him. I’m not giving half or more of the mf’ing MLE to someone who is about as healthy as that fat guy from the Fat Camp episode of True Life

SteveW

July 11th, 2010
5:31 pm

I agree on signing Z, even for the midlevel exception (4.3m for 2 years), but he still doesn’t match up well with Howard, and that’s a primary reason for the move. Sometimes in the playoffs it’s all about matchups, and our 2 weakest areas were killed by Howard/Gortat and Jameer at PG. Hopefully Teague can take on Jameer, and maybe Shaq/ZaZa can neutralize Howard. I think we are equal to much better than the Magic with the rest of the matchups.

Big Ray

July 11th, 2010
5:46 pm

Our boys start summer league play tomorrow. Looking forward to this.

Sawyer

July 11th, 2010
5:51 pm

Ken Strickland,

Big Z made way more than $925,000 last year. That was his contract after he was bought out by Washington in the Jamison trade. Without looking it up I think his starting salary last season was in the 10 million range.

Nookah

July 11th, 2010
5:51 pm

Why are most people so eager to trade Marvin? Someone mentioned earlier how good he was defensively and we keep forgetting that offensively there were no plays run for Marvin while Woody was here.

I hope LD has plans for Marvin (and I think he did say as much) because if he runs the schemes he has hinted at and that KenS has so eloquently explained on this blog, then we could see a much different Marvin and or a much different Hawks team in the years to come. Sometimes a coach and a different philosophy can make all the difference in the world to a player and a team.

Folks, I’m not a basketball expert but common sense I do have, and it was plain to see that the scheme that Woody was running in the playoffs was not working. We struggled against Milwakee and we were no match for the Magic. Of course we all knew before, Woody was unable to make any in-game (or in-series) adjustments.

What is one of the Hawks biggest assets? Our athleticism, and that’s exactly what we did not exploit enough as a team. Let’s see what LD will do with these changes.

Good stats on Big Z, KenS. It proves once again that a lot of times perception is not necessarily reality!! Do your homework guys before we spew inaccurate and popular views!!!

Go Hawks!!!

Dan

July 11th, 2010
6:02 pm

Shaq, Kwame Brown and Shaun Livingston….getter done

doc

July 11th, 2010
6:13 pm

i hope the real shaq can figure things out better than our resident imposter if he gets here. if he is as slow as this shaq is then it is going to be a long season. ;-)

Hawks Mess

July 11th, 2010
6:14 pm

I posted this before the playoffs and want to dedicate it again to Hawks 2010-2011 joke of a season in advance.
In the words of Bubba-Sparxxx- It’s gon’ get ugly in here!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaG2Acg8n60

i_am_soulstar

July 11th, 2010
6:20 pm

There are stats to support Shaq…

2009-2010 Hollinger NBA Player Statistics – Centers

RK PLAYER GP MPG TS% AST TO USG ORR DRR REBR PER VA EWA
48 Z. Ilgauskas, CLE 64 20.9 .491 8.1 10.6 17.1 10.7 19.6 15.3 11.99 27.8 0.9
14 S. O’Neal, CLE 53 23.4 .565 10.7 14.0 22.8 9.4 24.0 17.0 17.92 135.5 4.5

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?position=c&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2fhollinger%2fstatistics%3fposition%3dc

Grandad

July 11th, 2010
6:20 pm

SteveW

We have to be a bit more diversified now.
We cannot just gear up to stop D.Howard.
We have a new ‘thrisis’[aka Miami Thrice]
on our hands.

Another thing:
Why don’t we load up to make folks stop us?
We already have weapons;
Let’s bring in more artllery.
Make them “Fear” us!
Them meaning, the East.

i_am_soulstar

July 11th, 2010
6:21 pm

rank refers to the NBA Centers rank in PER, VA is value added, EWA is estimated wins added

Grandad

July 11th, 2010
6:36 pm

*Editorial note:
per my 6:20 *[P.M.] post

Whether by FA signing or by trade;
it matters not.
We must bring in *PLAYERS*
Not just some guy who may or may not pan out.
He MUST have a -skill- or a -niche- [AJ's word]
that WILL help win a championship.
Myame is in a situation where they must bring in
scrubs to fill the roster.
However, we must be ever so selective, in order to
remain ahead of them. Yes, I said ahead.
That Must be our attitude.
If not we’ve already been defeated, as in years past.
As Mark Bradley said:
“our roster [top eight] is better tha Myame”(sp) & paraphrase
With mid-lev & bi-ann, we can really seperate our rosters.
Cannot do it with dirt-dobbers.
Must be Real Basketball Players!

Hawk n the Ham

July 11th, 2010
6:37 pm

Another reason to get Shaq.

If the Hawks were to sign Shaq, he would be the only player on the team that gets the benefit of fouls for being an NBA superstar. Countless times in the playoffs Joakim Noah was getting screwed over by the refs by calling fouls on him when he was guarding Shaq. We don’t have that on our team, and has become an important asset for teams making it deep into the playoffs. I know it’s silly, but as a Hawks fan, we have always been on the other end of that stick.

STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)

July 11th, 2010
7:00 pm

I agree with Hawk n the Ham

locdog59

July 11th, 2010
7:00 pm

No need to trade for Shack guys he is an unrestricted free agent.

kjb

July 11th, 2010
7:10 pm

Let’s get help down low (Shaq or Kurt Thomas), small forward (Al Harrington), & guards(Allen Iverson, Shaun Livingston, Lil Nate, or Luke Ridnour) get rid of Marvin, Bibby, Mo, & Chills & we’ll be in business!!!

Grandad

July 11th, 2010
7:23 pm

I know that the 3 villains are labor.
I understand that the labor agreement would
preclude collusion understanding said fact.
However, are they in violation of any rules
or at least ethics, given that they concocted,
then carried out this plan.
*[Bosh let it slip]-(in public)
Basketball being a business built on competition.
Plus, all sorts of side-bars, depending on each
teams respective finish every season:
*draft order being the most obvious.
Should Stern launch an investigation?
Headed by an independent representative.
I just read where this all began when they all
signed three year extensions in order to become
U-FA’s the same year.
[obviously-hatched during olympics]

I MUS WRITE

July 11th, 2010
7:29 pm

Terrel- Im almost positive ouer roster will look similar to that. Watson and Thomas are the type of talent you sign in mid August-

bigworm

July 11th, 2010
7:43 pm

Enter your comments here. I don’t understand why they’re saying the two eurpe guys are going back already what if they are lights out in summer league

kwooden1

July 11th, 2010
8:04 pm

If the HAWKS are really working a S&T with Cleveland, I would definitely take Moon over Mo Williams. Mo is listed at 6′1″ and he’s a combo guard. I’m not really impressed with Moon either, but at least he can play the SF position. I would rather have Barnes at the SF position, but if for financial reasons it makes more sense to move Marvin Williams to get Shaq I would understand if we got Moon in the process.

kwooden1

July 11th, 2010
8:11 pm

Ken I would take Shaq over Ilgauskas because Shaq plays inside and Ilgauskas plays outside. Ilgauskas got a lot of his open shots because of Lebron driving and dishing. Shaq can and will take up space in the middle, even at his advanced age. He will be a locker room and media distraction, but I think the HAWKS will be so far under the radar because of Miami that it won’t matter that much. Also, he will take more pressure off of JJ, which should help him adjust to life with the “BIG Contract”!!

Shaq

July 11th, 2010
8:25 pm

doc

July 11th, 2010
6:13 pm

Nahila

July 11th, 2010
8:25 pm

Still think Shaq can be a good player for the Hawks, a Marvin William’s and Maurice Evan’s trade for Shaq would be good (it will take that much money to sign Shaq), keep Chills as SF replacement, he brings instant energy in a fast pace floor game.Trading Bibby and Evans (expiring contract) for Shaq even a better Hawk trade for Shaq but Cavs need a small forward. Then sign Kurt Thomas and Randolph Morris to fill out the PF and C positions. Childress can share SF with Joe Johnson when Johnson swings over from SG and PG to give both J Crawford’s additional playing time. You would think that Johnson would follow the BIg 3 in Miami and offer to pony up some of his huge salary to halp the Hawks add the few quality players needed, afterall, he received the highest overall salary of all free agents and ate up any cap relief for the Hawks for many years. Maybe he will, let’s hope.

Shaq

July 11th, 2010
8:26 pm

Mystikal

July 11th, 2010
8:34 pm

Does anyone know how much $$ we actually have? I believe we’d committed 65$ million to 10 players after resigning Joe, leaving us around 5$ million. And then we have 5.7 million with the mid-level exception and just above $2 million from the bi-annual exception. That sound close to acurrate?

northcyde

July 11th, 2010
8:41 pm

The reason you don’t get Big Z over Shaq, is because the whole reason Shaq was brought in, is because Big Z had no chance in even slowing down Dwight Howard. Shaq also gives you low post offense in the paint, not out on the perimeter like Z does. And Z’s shot fell off big time last year.

Big Z s a decent alternative. But if given the choice, you take Shaq for the in the paint presence that he presents on both ends of the floor.