Atlanta Hawks: Money matters
The league set the salary cap at $58.044 million and the luxury-tax threshold at $70.307 million. What it means for the Hawks is J.J.s salary will be more than expected, they gained some wiggle room under the tax threshold and Chill’s qualifying offer could put them in a jam. Humor me with some technicalities so I can be transparent with my math in case it’s wrong (I will update later if I figure out any of the figures are off):
In one of those weird CBA quirks, max deals are not based on the team salary cap, which is 51 percent of Basketball Related Income, but are pegged to 48.04 percent of BRI. (EDIT: reader Robert Dinterman emails to note that Projected Benefits are part of the formula and since those haven’t been made public yet these are just estimates) . For a player with J.J.’s experience, his maximum salary is the greater of 105 percent of his 2009-10 salary of $14.98 million ($15.7 million) or 30 percent of the max cap figure, which is about $16.4 $16.3 million (EDIT: this will be lower once benefits are included in formula).
So J.J.’s deal starts at $16.4 $16.3 million, with 10.5 percent raises per year, for a total value of about $124 $123.7 million. The breakdowns for following years (with rounding): $18.1 $18.01 million in 2011-12, $19.8 $19.723 million in 2012-13, $21.5 $21.43 million in 2013-14, $23.2 $23.15 million in 2014-15, and $24.89 million in 2015-16.
The league set the luxury-tax threshold at $70.307 million. Once J.J. signs, the Hawks will have roughly $65 million committed to 10 players when included Jordan Crawford’s rookie-scale deal. So the Hawks can add up to about $5 million in salaries until they must pay the tax.
That brings us to the mid-level exception, which was set at $5.765. The Hawks can sign a player to a contract with a first-year salary up to that amount or split it among more than one player, but if they use all of it it looks like they will pay some of the dollar-for-dollar tax in addition to missing out on the tax rebate money for non-tax teams.
And don’t forget about where Chills fits in all of this. If he signs Atlanta’s $4.8 million qualifying offer it will increase the payroll to near the luxury tax level. The Hawks want to get something for Chills and will try to work out a sign-and-trade. But they might also have to consider renouncing his rights lest he accept the offer at any minute and put them in a position where each additional player costs them double with the tax.
The Hawks also have their bi-annual exception available. They can use that to sign a player for up to two years and $4.3 million (it also can be split but veterans make more with the minimum).
MC
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154 comments Add your comment
PD
July 7th, 2010
10:05 pm
Let the madness begin…….Hawks still got to open up the purse and pay
PD
July 7th, 2010
10:06 pm
Uno
ryan
July 7th, 2010
10:08 pm
Hey Cunningham if Shaq signs do Josh Smith& Josh Childress getting Traded.
PD
July 7th, 2010
10:08 pm
No hometown discount from JJ to create a winner. Maybe he reconsiders before he signs but that is a pipe dream. Still need a reliable bench that includes good vets and serviceable bigs
PD
July 7th, 2010
10:11 pm
There are so many good players out there the Hawks can grab. MC anyword on the Hawks next true move.
dap01
July 7th, 2010
10:15 pm
This is beginning to smell. Yeah, we get to keep JJ but we really can’t afford anything else. Who are we going to sacrifice in order to keep JJ happy.
hmmm.........
July 7th, 2010
10:15 pm
trade bibby!!!
MannyT
July 7th, 2010
10:18 pm
@MC–the good news is that luxury tax is based on your salary situation at the end of the season. If they ditch a contract in Feb 2011 all could be good. Don’t worry about salaries at start of season, just the end.
Truth-Serum
July 7th, 2010
10:19 pm
it will be interesting to see what the hawks do about there weakness at the 5 position
Michael Cunningham
July 7th, 2010
10:20 pm
@ryan: “Hey Cunningham if Shaq signs do Josh Smith& Josh Childress getting Traded.”
not necessarily. it would be tougher to trade Chills than Josh because requires S&T. i think Shaq is seeking more than the mid-level and he might get it in weak center group.
Freshmaker
July 7th, 2010
10:21 pm
@ryan: No, Smith doesn’t get traded to make room for Shaq. Shaq is a 2 year rental at best. Childress could certainly be traded, but his being moved is unrelated to the Big Aristotle.
@MC: Thanks for the constant updates man. Really appreciate all the work you’re putting into this.
Michael Cunningham
July 7th, 2010
10:21 pm
@ PD: “There are so many good players out there the Hawks can grab. MC anyword on the Hawks next true move.”
no. i think getting the league financial numbers will get things rolling. tough for them to offer deals before they were sure about the tax level. also, signings and trades can’t happen until tomorrow.
Truth-Serum
July 7th, 2010
10:21 pm
its still JJ’s team he too wants a legitimate center.
Truth-Serum
July 7th, 2010
10:23 pm
M. Cunningham to you anticipate a very busy trade/FA signing period this next week? What is your speculation on Lebron?
Truth-Serum
July 7th, 2010
10:23 pm
*do you anticipate
Astro Joe
July 7th, 2010
10:24 pm
If Joe takes $x less than the max (per year), explain to me what guarantees he has that the ASG will spend the “savings” as opposed to keeping it in their bank account? Have they demonstrated a past history that would suggest that if they have available salary room, that they will use it? It seems to me that Dirk and Pierce both took home town discounts for teams that have exceeded the luxury threshold the past few years.
JeJe
July 7th, 2010
10:24 pm
JOE GOOD JOB CLUTTERING OUR PAYROLL.
NOW WHAT TOP FA’S ARE U GOING TO RECRUIT, SEEING THAT EVERYONE IS GONE?
LOL!
Michael Cunningham
July 7th, 2010
10:25 pm
@ Manny T: easy for us to say, it’s not our money
Hawk n the Ham
July 7th, 2010
10:25 pm
MC
What is your feeling on where the Hawks are looking next? Do you think they are going to keep the frontcourt similar to last season’s roster, and go after a defensive minded guard? Or vice versa? Because it looks like they have to choose between the two, and not be able to upgrade both because of the JJ money.
Michael Cunningham
July 7th, 2010
10:32 pm
@Truth: busy for the Hawks or the league? i think there will be some signings once this first wave of guys gets their deals and the market settles down. as for LeBron, i have no clue, i’m just glad i don’t have to cover that circus.
ryan
July 7th, 2010
10:34 pm
I think Shaq is not going to have huge market because Dallas and Boston are going in different directions maybe New Jersey wants him but he is going to have to take mid level exception.
Dan23
July 7th, 2010
10:35 pm
@MC I heard it looks like J O’Neal is going to sign with the Celtics. Rumors had them as one of the teams who were looking at Shaq. Could the “contender” well dry up for him before it starts so he may come a little cheaper?
Horace
July 7th, 2010
10:36 pm
how many of yall think we can get al jefferson? I think we will have one the best young frotncourts in the league.
Realsquawk
July 7th, 2010
10:39 pm
Wait so is there no possibility Chillz just plays for the Hawks for a year. With a new coach and everything the locker room has to be a little different right?
Michael Cunningham
July 7th, 2010
10:44 pm
@Hawk: honestly, i’m not sure what they are going to do. i hope to find out more when Sund and co. come out of their caves this weekend.
as you say, it seems they have to choose one way or the other, at least as far as free agency goes. if they really want to get better, i have to think they go the trade route. but they always talk about liking their “core”, and J.J.’s re-signing is another example of how much they tend to value their own. so is Marvin–the company line still is he can get better if L.D. involves him in the offense more. so is Teague–we will develop him into the starter. so is L.D.–let’s keep the guy who knows our guys.
so are they willing to part with one of their core guys to get something back? do they consider Crawford part of the “core” or are they willing to sacrifice him to get better at another position? what about Smoove? can Sund really get useful pieces for Marvin and/or Bibby? do they want short-term rentals back or are they looking for young players? they seemingly have too many guards but Teague is an unknown, Bibby is on the decline and Jordan C. is a rook. do they bring in yet another guard? they also seem to have too many PFs, but Horford is a very good center, so do they use some of their limited resources for a bona fide center?
this is going to be an interesting summer. Sund has lots of decisions to make and he’s going to have to get creative.
J from the A
July 7th, 2010
10:46 pm
Counting JJ and Jordan Crawford, the Hawks have 10 on roster. So, the Hawks will need to sign at least two more players, right? What’s the chances that the ASG will be willing to go into the Luxury Tax in order to ensure that both of these last two players are actually quality players? I am thinking something along the lines of spending the mid-level exception on a decent center and the bi-annual on someone along the lines of the players you suggested in the earlier blog post (or visa-versa).
Or do you think it’s more likely that ASG will opt for less expensive (vet minimum guys?) to fill the remaining roster spots.
Grandad
July 7th, 2010
10:47 pm
Shaq now listing SA Spurs # 1 choice.
Hawks as co-# 1 choice.(whatever that means)
Wants two yr. contract:
In order to win title, + have a farewell tour, 2nd yr.
Boston not interested:
says “Shaq would mess up their chemistry” *[for nc]
*I like Boston’s approach.
**Quetionable whether SA has interest???
***Shaq’s fishin’!
****let him fish in Clipper-land.
If Childress is S&T’d then we don’t have to take back
Matching sal., correct?
*my opine:
Mid-lev & bi-annual, get the best “player” for ea. one.
Don’t split ‘em up. Talent over #’s.
Fill roster wi. Sy, Gladyr, & Mario. [11-13]
The 1st ten need to be the best we can find.
Michael Cunningham
July 7th, 2010
10:49 pm
@Dan23:” @MC I heard it looks like J O’Neal is going to sign with the Celtics. Rumors had them as one of the teams who were looking at Shaq. Could the “contender” well dry up for him before it starts so he may come a little cheaper?”
yeah, i saw JO to Boston or Denver. Shaq will still have options, but i was talking to another hack the other day and we came up with this list of teams Shaq might accept (Boston was on the list but let’s eliminate them now):
Hawks (he’s already told friends he’s open to it)
Spurs (he likes Popp, who also likes him)
Mavs (he likes Cuban, who loves him)
whichever team Bron ends up on, if they have the means to pay him
we decided he can’t go back to Lakers, Heat or Suns because he burned too many bridges. same goes for Stan Van in Orlando. so right now i would say he’s down to Hawks, Spurs, Mavs and whichever team gets LeBron.
ryan
July 7th, 2010
10:49 pm
Hey Cunningham i still think Shaq will sign with Hawks and i also think that Jordan Crawford might be the steal of the draft.
Section 303
July 7th, 2010
10:49 pm
Any of you guys watch the Euro-league finals on NBATV, back in May? Childress is still Childress. I always thought he was a pretty good player. He still is just a pretty good player. Nothing more, nothing less. I think, since Chills does not want to be here anyway, the Hawks should just let him go then. Doubtful they will get much for him anyways.
I think they should just let him walk and move along with the summer. Unless, of course, I’m wrong and another team really has something to offer for him. In that case, do the sign-and-trade, of course.
aaron
July 7th, 2010
10:50 pm
first priority should be to get a legitimate large center- at least 6′11″ long, rebounds blocks shots, plays good defense- we do that and we are a champ contender- also it would give us more flexibility- cuz then we could look at trading josh smith- not saying we should but we could figure out his value on the trade market
do u agree MC?
Michael Cunningham
July 7th, 2010
10:51 pm
@ J From the A: they need to sign at least three more to get to minimum of 13. word is ASG is willing to pay some tax for the “right player(s)” so if they find one or two they presumably will do it. we’ll see how it plays out. but if they fill out the roster with minimum guys and try to sell it as an improved squad i don’t think the customers are going to go for it.
Michael Cunningham
July 7th, 2010
10:53 pm
@Fresmaker: “@MC: Thanks for the constant updates man. Really appreciate all the work you’re putting into this.”
thanks, trying to do my thang. the traffic has been very good lately, so i ‘ve just been trying to deliver.
DMR
July 7th, 2010
10:53 pm
The signing of Joe Johnson to Kobe/LeBron type money is absurd. When Johnson started talking about going to New York and making up the difference with endorsements, the Hawks should have known he was delusional. Unfortunately for the fans, the ASG is more delusional than Joe Johnson. Would the Hawks have taken a step backward without Joe Johnson? Sure. Would it have been a temporary setback? I believe so. Instead, they took a very narrow and short sighted approach. We will see the Miami Heat…be fair, be good, win a championship, slip backwards, and then propel themselves pas the Hawks as many teams will. All the while the ASG is hoping fans are too stupid to realize that spending money and spending money wisely are two very different things.
Michael Cunningham
July 7th, 2010
10:55 pm
@ryan: “Hey Cunningham i still think Shaq will sign with Hawks and i also think that Jordan Crawford might be the steal of the draft.”
you could be right about both. this is the time of the year for optimism and there’s nothing wrong with that.
Michael Cunningham
July 7th, 2010
10:55 pm
@aaron: your reasoning is sound.
UGA
July 7th, 2010
10:55 pm
Is there a free agent big out there that guarded Howard ok?
I think Joel Anthony may have. Kwame Brown is a big boy and I still like Josh Boone or an Etan Thomas.
I liked the ideas in the last blog. Our perimeter D is very poor and must be improved. With having Mo, Carney may be the most realistic choice in terms of minutes.
J from the A
July 7th, 2010
10:56 pm
Why would the Hawks want to trade Josh Smith? To keep Horford happy?
As MC mentioned, the Hawks ownership loves their “core.” Josh is definitely a part of the “core.” Plus, Josh is a phenomenal athlete who still has a huge upside. You don’t trade someone like Josh for anyone less than a bona fide star, and I am not talking about a bona fide star who is coming off injuries. Any deal involving Josh would have to be one that gave the Hawks a huge plus side without it being risky.
UGA
July 7th, 2010
10:57 pm
Ronny Turiaf has got to available in a trade with all of these big men the Warriors have.
GMAN013
July 7th, 2010
10:57 pm
MC,
Would you trade Smith and Willams for Gerald Wallace and Tyson Chandler?
Michael Cunningham
July 7th, 2010
10:58 pm
@DMR: “When Johnson started talking about going to New York and making up the difference with endorsements, the Hawks should have known he was delusional.”
it was the Knicks who were saying that to J.J. i’m still not sure how much J.J. was really considering going elsewhere once Hawks offered the max. all i heard through the whole process was they were working out contract details. but reporters i respect were saying different things. so it’s hard to know exactly how hard he looked at other teams. i will of course ask him when i finally get the chance.
aaron
July 7th, 2010
10:59 pm
i agree the only two scenarios that i would give up josh would be if we got chris paul or al jefferson- which may be possible but its a stretch- if we did get a center i think josh would have to come off the bench
extremus
July 7th, 2010
11:01 pm
Wow, all that money (over A TENTH OF A BILLION DOLLARS) to resign one guy who verbally dissed Atlanta fans just to keep basically the same roster intact that got utterly humiliated a few weeks ago. Thinking “long-term” or not, that’s just a bizarre, stupid way of doing business; the Hawks are no better off than they were at the end of last season and, let’s not kid ourselves, they’re not going to add any pieces of enough caliber to make a difference now. The NBA basically lost my interest once I realized that any given year maybe three or four teams had any real shot of winning a title; all the other 12 or 14 playoff teams are there to give fanbases the illusion their teams are actually going somewhere. It’s a bad joke and a broken, unbalanced league with no real drama in most matchups. And like every year before, come 2011 the Atlanta Hawks will be one of those teams on the outside of the elite three or four, hence the city’s reluctance to grow any sense of enthusiasm.
Michael Cunningham
July 7th, 2010
11:02 pm
@UGA: Joel Anthony is a really good post defender for a good price. that’s why the Heat extended him a qualifying offer even though it kind of screwed with their cap.
J from the A
July 7th, 2010
11:04 pm
Thanks MC. 3 more players … hopefully, that means at least two quality players (and, obviously, at most one “space filler”).
If we can get two more quality players, I think I really like the chances the Hawks have of being a contender. If you take last year’s team, assume at least some improvement out of the younger Hawks, assume the vets’ contributions stay steady, and add quality depth, then there is no reason the Hawks cannot be a contender. Of course, there a couple of big assumptions in there and the big “if the Hawks will add quality (i.e., near starting level) bench players.”
Grandad
July 7th, 2010
11:05 pm
UGA – I like Josh Boone as well. [rotation player]
David Lee S&T to Warriors…..RUMOR !!!
*Turiaf supposedly to Knicks along with A. Randolph.
Once again everyone waitin’ on LeBron,
to see what he’s gonna do.
Michael Cunningham
July 7th, 2010
11:07 pm
@GMan: doubt charlotte would do that one. they love Wallace there.
jojo sunshine
July 7th, 2010
11:08 pm
Trade Bibby and Marvin Williams and if we can sign Chill then put him in the mix. So that is 6 million (Bibby), 7 million (Marvin), and another 4 million for Chill. That is 17 million. That could definitely get us some talent. Trade with Memphis for Mayo, Thabeet, and Marc Gasol. I would definitely rather have Rudy Gay but I don’t think Memphis will trade their best player. But crazier things have happened. Man I would love to see Teague at the point JJ at the 2, Rudy Gay at the 3, Smith at the 4 and Horford at the 5. That would be match up problems for any team in the league.
jojo sunshine
July 7th, 2010
11:12 pm
The Hawks could also trade Josh Smith a future draft pick and cash considerations to New Orleans for CP3. Now put CP3 at point with my last post and let teague be his back-up. Our starting five would be title contenders now.
AJGREEN FAN
July 7th, 2010
11:12 pm
What’s also left to be considered is the decision the team must in regards to J. Crawford. For instance, they are now in the same position with JC as they were last year with JJ (granted JC will not come close to commanding max dollars, though technically his Bird rights are traded with him). But the organizational decision must be made this summer as to what to do with JC because he is too to let walk as an UFA next summer and get nothing in return. My guts says, they make an offer later this summer. He and his agent don’t accept at that time (like Arn Tellem and Joe did). If Hawks are not in top 4 or 5 in East be Jan/Feb 2011, he could be traded before the deadline.
JeJe
July 7th, 2010
11:14 pm
Trade Duck+Bib for the best PG possible (I hope), sign Shaq, sign Barnes and that’s a perfect summer to me (besides Joe’s horrendous contract).
SO JOE, WHAT FA’S ARE U BRINGING IN? I WILL ASK IT ON EVERY BLOG
jojo sunshine
July 7th, 2010
11:15 pm
Sorry, you would have to substitute someone for Smith since he was in my other 5. Point would be CP3, the 2 would be Jamal Crawford, JJ at the 3, Rudy at the 4, and Horford at the 5. Small but quick and shoot the lights out of it.
Grandad
July 7th, 2010
11:18 pm
GMAN013
I know you didn’t ask me the question,
-BUT-
I would enjoy weighing in, if you don’t mind.
There are only four -NON- SuperStars with which
I would trade Josh:
*Derrick Rose [almost SS status]
*Tyreke Evans
*Stephen Curry
*Joakim Noah
truly1
July 7th, 2010
11:24 pm
MC do you think that ld can get jj to stop the isos
jojo sunshine
July 7th, 2010
11:28 pm
You would not trade Josh Smith for CP3? He is one of if not the best point guard in the league. He would make Atlanta a contender immediately. I would love to keep Smith and get CP3 – the alley oop dunks would be incredible.
Melvin
July 7th, 2010
11:30 pm
MC,
When the BASG (Badd or Broke Altanta Spirited Group) decided to retain Joe at all cost then the idea of not being a luxury tax team when out the window. It would be foolish to think that you would pay a max player and be a serious contender and not pay the luxury tax. I wonder who was the last team to win the championship and not pay the luxury tax? The Spurs comes to mind (without researching) b/c Duncan was good enough on his rookie contract to push that team to championship level.
JSS
July 7th, 2010
11:30 pm
@ Big Ray…
I finally answered your question, sorry for the delay…
Get us some players!!!
Grandad
July 7th, 2010
11:37 pm
Concerning Josh;
as everyone is seeing with this FA frenzy,
talent is valuable.
Josh is valuable.
Miami has D.Wade & Bosh + little else.
NY has Amare & little else UNLESS, LBJ,
then they have, what, ‘two’???
-My Point-
The Hawks have Joe = value
Al = value
Josh = value
Jamal= value
Teaguer = untapped value
Jordan C. = potential value
Marv, Bibby, Childress = value as chips or solid bench.
*Right now the Hawks are in better shape than we realize.
**All we see are our shortcomings.
We are on the precipice, but we cannot afford a misstep.
The way I see it:
Cleveland going downhill
Boston aging
Chicago going uphill [Boozer]
Orlando is still Orlando
Hawks ascending!!!
collibanks
July 7th, 2010
11:38 pm
MC
Forgive me if this sounds ignorant. But here it goes, can’t Joe willingly take less money, therefore lowering his contract to ensure that we can sign more effective pieces. It just seems that if he did this, then Sund would have more money to work with. It was his agent who said he was recruiting top level free agents. If ‘Bron, Wade and Bosh were all “willing to do it”. Then why wouldn’t Joe.
Truth-serum
July 7th, 2010
11:53 pm
J from the A
July 7th, 2010
10:56 pm
Horford’s fans obviously dont recognize that Josh is a better overall play than Al.After Al’s rookie contract is complete I think if anybody’s going to be traded it will be Al, After all, once you get past the al hype you find that hes a career 12pts 9 rbs. Nothing exception and certainly not the caliber of player Josh is, who by the way is a native of Atlanta.
Clyde
July 7th, 2010
11:54 pm
zzz
Truth-serum
July 7th, 2010
11:57 pm
Michael Cunningham Thanks for the specificity. Now that you mention it I meant both the league and hawks. Thanks.
HawkKingBibby
July 8th, 2010
12:08 am
Wait a minute a sportswriter who actually knows about the cap and what moves are and are not possible to make under it, WOW. Great job and Great blog M.C. I hope the Haks get Shaq just for entertainment value alone. He will give you plenty to write about so you should hope we get him as well.
pt
July 8th, 2010
12:21 am
MC what do you think about bring in Al Jefferson. I’m a true Grady Baby to the heart. So this next part to get him aches my soul. The timberwolf’s are looking for a oh my this hurts a J. Smith type of player. Then maybe add in M. William in the trade and it could also bring back a R. Session {spelling may be off good pg that we need}. Add in The Big Peachtree what would we be maybe a sharpshooter away. Bibby could fill that role. He is a very good set shot shooter.
MaxxHawk
July 8th, 2010
12:25 am
I keep hearing about trading Smoove, and I think that would be a terrible move for the Hawks. His game improved to an All-Star level last year, and he is still only 24. The Hawks Defense starts and stops with Josh Smith. He was the runner-up for Defensive MVP behind Dwight Howard last year, we all know about his shotblocking records. Trading J-Smoov, the hometown kid, would be a horrible move.
rusty
July 8th, 2010
12:27 am
hey joe who you bringing here. ha,ha i got my freaking money ha,ha
MaxxHawk
July 8th, 2010
12:29 am
Trading Marvin Williams for CJ Watson and signing DJ Mbenga would be a good move!
I Heart Atlanta
July 8th, 2010
12:44 am
http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/07/07/source-shaq-prefers-spurs-wants-to-play-two-more-seasons/
either us or spurs is Shaq’s choice
KevinM
July 8th, 2010
12:58 am
At this stage, we will be fortunate to get anything of value for Chills. Saying that, we do have 10 roster slots fulfilled, but no way should we be finished….a couple of thoughts.
- Move Smoove to get us some bump up in the 1/2 court offense.
- Consider what will it take to get Oden or Thabeet….what will it take to get Oden? Is Conley an option from Memphis….
The focus should still be on improving the 1 and 5 slots…….this has been going on as long as we have been hoping for David Andersen to come overseas ot join us.
Joelhall
July 8th, 2010
1:11 am
Why are we trading Josh? He is young talented athletic can block can score…. Do we no want good players?
darrell starks
July 8th, 2010
1:25 am
IF THE HAWKS TRADE JOSH IT WILL BE THE STUPIEST THING THE HAWKS COULD HAVE DONE, unless it’s for and all star player like cp3.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
July 8th, 2010
1:27 am
I would trade horford and marvin for cp3 right now.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
HawkKingBibby
July 8th, 2010
1:27 am
WE DONT HAVE TO TALK HAWKS ANYMORE !!!!! Real gm and Newsday are reorting that LEBRON IS GOING TO MIAMI. Unless we GET KOBE were toast
cp
July 8th, 2010
1:29 am
O’Brien and myself have been talking about Josh Boone since the trading deadline. I like the idea of adding Boone and Carney.
darrell starks
July 8th, 2010
1:31 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYgSWGbEKsQ
darrell starks
July 8th, 2010
1:40 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtmuQoyKOWo
tckr83
July 8th, 2010
1:53 am
Lebron, Wade and Bosh cant play 48 minutes every game… much less in one game. The rest of Miami’s roster will be a joke! And just for arguments sake here… if Miami made the playoffs this year, the “New Big 3″ would be running on fumes by that point.
3 great players, no doubt… but they’ll be 3 tired, great players.
***Joe Johnson*** – Take a freaking pay cut (Durant 5yr/86M… who is better, no MUCH better player than you), allow the Hawks to get some other QUALITY pieces in here with your discount and get your title. It’s that simple. Loyalty goes both ways, the Hawks MADE you. Return the favor like many other star pro-athletes have done for their teams loyalty/willingness to win NOW (an immediate Max contract was on your front door as soon as the Hawks could).
It would make things so much easier for you and the Hawks to win a title in a city/state that both needs and deserves another one.
Go Hawks
darrell starks
July 8th, 2010
1:55 am
Lebron will sign with the heat wow!!!!!!!!
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
Najeh Davenpoop
July 8th, 2010
1:57 am
“Multiple reports” have also said LeBron is signing with half the other teams in the league. I’ll believe it when I see it. I think LeBron is too conscious of his legacy to join a team where he won’t be option #1.
I can see the Bulls or the Cavs, not the Heat.
darrell starks
July 8th, 2010
1:58 am
The hawks have 2 make a choice on horford or josh, the hawks need a star player.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
July 8th, 2010
2:00 am
CP3, JOE, JOSH, VS WADE, LEBRRON, BOSH.
THE HIGHLIGHT FACTORY WILL BE JAM PACK.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!
Clyde
July 8th, 2010
2:08 am
Teams in the East are adding players and improving but the Hawks are just sitting on the azz.
cp3
July 8th, 2010
2:12 am
hey guys trade for me! i hate it in new orleans, i want to win games, and would like to go to a team thats contending. you don’t need smoove, chills, bibby, and marvin. you need ME!!!
Najeh Davenpoop
July 8th, 2010
2:19 am
Ray Allen is staying in Boston for 2 years and $20 million.
Emir S.
July 8th, 2010
2:21 am
Bosh going to Miami, Boozer to the Bulls, Amare to the Knicks. I have a feeling that James might go to New York now.
Bosh/Wade = Stress for Hawks
Boozer/Rose = Stress for Hawks
Amare/LeBron = Stress for the Hawks
Nets = Possible Stress
We are in alot of trouble…..
Oh and lets not forget the Magic, the Bucks, and the Celtics, and even the Bobcats. All who have one-two punch combos. With the Celtics having like a one-two-three-four punch combo.
We are gonna have so much trouble competeing if we dont pick up the right free agents. I hope Teague is a superstar waiting to crack out of his shell. I feel we are gonna need him to step up BIG time next season.
STRETCH
July 8th, 2010
2:38 am
The Hawks will probably be a 6th seed at best next year.
Real Talk
July 8th, 2010
3:09 am
The Hawks will be nonexistent after Lebron signs with the Heat tonight. Shout out to the Miami Heat Management at least they are showing REAL COMMITMENT TO WINNING unlike ASG.
Clyde
July 8th, 2010
3:15 am
I thought the sweep in the 2nd round by the Magic would wake the Spirit group up but I guess I was wrong. They think a new coach is all the changes that need to be made. Sorry to burst ya bubble but Larry Drew ain’t a miracle worker.
Top teams in the east next year:
Heat
Boston
Magic
Bulls
Bucks
Hawks
vava74
July 8th, 2010
3:24 am
A few commentaries:
No “top” FA but Shaq has shown interest in joining the Hawks.
And few top teams have shown interest in Shaq.
This is a marriage by necessity in the works since both parties need to save face.
It’s Mo Malone all over again.
JJ vs Durant: Durant is indeed a star on the rise but his defence is no way at JJ’s level.
Also, even with all the “help” he gets from the NBA (refs) which is diametrally opposed to the lack of “help” JJ gets, JJ’s CLUTCH NUMBERS THIS SEASON WERE BETTER THAN DURANT’s.
Check it on http://www.82games.com
As for the playoffs: JJ was averaging 27,5 ppg 7,5rpg and 4,5apg during the first 4 games of the Milwaukee series whilst playing excellent D on Salmons and Jennings.
The problem came when the team imploded in the locker room and he – and we can blame him for this – stopped believing and lost his focus.
With a different offense and a smarter D, JJ will excel.
vava74
July 8th, 2010
3:31 am
Also, to put Josh on the trading block is stupid.
His contributions were vital to get a large chunk of those 53 wins.
It’s much easier to replace Crawford’s points with better ball movement and better execution on offense than to replace all that Josh brings to the table with or without stupid jump shots.
Also, although I think Jamal is a very nice kid, his D (lack of) is a problem which in many occasions was not off set by his offense (who in many games is way off – specially in late game situations – again, check the clutch stats on http://www.82games.com).
cory dillinger
July 8th, 2010
3:55 am
hey I got lets trade marvin and mo evans for kobe and gasol or bibby and jamal for derron williams that is the nonsense these bloggers put out there, the other team has want what we have….. that being said how about chilldress and bibby for gilbert arenas
uugh
July 8th, 2010
5:23 am
Thanks a lot JJ. No obne wil even touch his contract after that first year. The onlly way we get better is if the ASG is prepared to go all in and pay the Luxury tax.
STRETCH
July 8th, 2010
5:53 am
And what gets me is JJ knows he is NOT worth that much money. But players like him have come along before and they will continue to. They ask for all that money cause they know some idiots will give it to them.
So do not be shocked when they are knocked out of the 2nd round for the 3rd straight year!
Neki Ecko
July 8th, 2010
6:19 am
I think if Lebron does go to Miami(about 95% now), that will be the key to start open up the flood gates for trades for the Hawks because it will be a Blood Bath with those three(Lebron, Wade and Bosh) together. So I think a trade to N.O. , Portland or GS will have to happened if they want to contiune as one of the elite.
dukester
July 8th, 2010
7:19 am
Here is how i see it
Marvin 8 million
Bibby 6 million
Chills 5 million
Puchalia 4 million
Thats 23 million dollars for players that im wondering what are there combined stats. We should be
able turn that into a starting center and a nice wingman that can shoot 3ptrs and another defensive stopper on the perimeter!!! We are gonna have to trade our way into an elite team I believe it can be done.
O'Brien
July 8th, 2010
7:29 am
I just hope Sund does not add a center, and call it a day, because there are tweaks that need to be made. We are stacked at SG, but JJ is our only solid defender, and we still don’t have a shooter. Also, I don’t think Mo Evans should see any minutes at SF (I wish he had opted out).
And even if we add a center, who is our backup PF? Even if Al gets minutes at PF, he shouldn’t be our starting center and our backup PF, because if he gets hurt, we would be in trouble at 2 positions.
I still think our best bet is via trade(s), most likely some combination of Jamal, Mo, Bibby, Chills and Marvin.
Jody
July 8th, 2010
7:46 am
If the LeBron news is true, it’s a wrap for the the South East division and the rest of the Eastern Conference. MLE addition and LLE addition ain’t gonna cut it now for the Hawks.
N-Trigue
July 8th, 2010
7:54 am
If I was coach I would put Zaza back in the starting lineup this is a combination we hardly ever saw with Woody at coach. I think Zaza is the type of player that needs to play consistent mins to make an impact on the game. It wasn’t too long ago when Zaza was averaging a double-double and was on the all star team ballot. Of course I thing the key is making adjustments if Zaza gets in early foul trouble you can either move Al to Center and move Josh back to PF and put a Sf in the game (marvin, Month or whoever we might pickup Childress hopefully) or leave the lineup the same and put our backup center in for Zaza. Lineup would be Teague, JJ,Josh S, Horford, Zaza bench Bibby, Mo , Shaq,Jamal C, Jordan C, Marvin, and hopefully Shannon Brown or Outlaw.
John
July 8th, 2010
8:08 am
IF Miami gets Lebron…let’s not all jump the gun. they will have 7 players…SEVEN (and that number is assuming the 3 2nd round picks make the team)….they have no more money…AT ALL. And they have to have a minimum of 13 players. WHO ELSE WILL BE ON THE ROSTER? lol Yeah, they will be nasty, but they still have NOONE to guard Dwight. their biggest player will be Bosh, who isn’t the most masculine player in the NBA. lol And Chicago with Boozer now….they are even better than Miami, WITH LEBRON. People see the big 3 superstars the same as Boston’s big 3. Boston has RAJON RONDO…very serviceable big men, and a pretty darn good bench. Miami would have the big 3….and…..yea, that’s it. No matter how you cut it, it’s still another ring for Kobe.
RoadKing
July 8th, 2010
8:09 am
I am sick of all this LJ crap. Giving LJ the MVP was a joke as the true and only MVP was and is Kobe. LJ is a freak talent wise don’t get me wrong, but he is a ball hog. LJ, D Wade and Bosh on one team will not work. Think about when Boston got KG and Ray, already having Pierce. Three very different type of players who complimented each other. LJ, Wade and Bosh do not. Chemisrty and team play is important and I don’t see it.
. Go blog on the Nicks, Nets, Wizards, Clippers, etc sites. The Hawks and ASG have done amazing since the AOL days and I look forward to the future. There is no way they are done this off season. See you opening night.
ASG – blogger’s had been saying your broke and won’t be able to sign JJ or your too Cheap. Now they say dumb move, you over paid. You did what you had too and keep up the great work. I went to all of the games your first year when you bought a mess from AOL and only won 13 games ( the haters have no memory and only like to complain ). I went to every home game last year and it was the best year as a Hawks fan. From 13 wins to 53 – I don’t see how a TRUE fan can’t see all you have done building a fun, winning team. Many many NBA cities would love to win 53 games and make it to the second round 2 years in a row. You have shown this fan your not cheap ( getting Joe in the first place and keeping him now, signing JC and keeping Smooth in ATL). All smart moves and not cheap – all helped the Hawks be a fun, winning team! To all your haters, must have lots of AOL stock
Ken Strickland
July 8th, 2010
8:19 am
First, I’d like to question anyone complaining about returning 8 of the 12 players that helped the team finish 3rd in the East, win 53 gms, make it to the playoffs 3 consecutive yrs, and to the 2nd rd 2 consecutive yrs. You really want to throw the baby out with the wash just because we got our butts whipped in the 2nd rd 2 consecutive yrs?
Well, I guess your solution for making certain we don’t get embarrassed in the 2nd rd again is to let our best players go so we won’t get to the 2nd rd, or even make the playoffs. I’d much rather get by butt whipped in the 2nd rd than lose in the 1st rd.
The biggest problem we had in the playoffs has been replaced. The current issue facing the Hawks isn’t who we bring back, but how effectively and efficiently we utilize what we bring back. LDrew was hired specifically to rectify those team issues that were the result of Woodson’s stubbornness, idiosyncrasies and/or personal issues.
LDrew immediately started making those OFF and DEF improvements and upgrades when he declared JTeague as our new starting PG in place of MBibby. This was an issue Woodson refused to address, and considering Bibby’s inconsistency, lack of production and poor DEF, the move is very low risk.
Installing an actual half court OFF, committing to playing uptempo, effective bench utilization, and playing traditional straight up man DEF, will automatically generate improvement. Drew has already said he intends to improve MWilliams’ production by involving him more in the OFF, which again is something Woodson refused to address.
With the new cap already established, I’d definitely look into seeing how desperate the Hornets are in wanting to get rid of EOkafor’s contract. Trade MWilliams and MEvans for him. Then start JJ @SG, Teague @PG, Marvin @SF, Horford @C and JSmith @PF.
BENCH: JaCrawford, EOkafor, ZPachulia, JoCrawford, MBibby, ?, ?.
We can put this roster together without going over the cap, paying any luxury tax, and without using our MLE or biannual exemption. We might even be able to snugly fit Chills’ $4.8M qualifying offer under the cap if we choose to do so.
John
July 8th, 2010
8:34 am
@ Ken….I agree with your post…however…do you know how much Okafor makes? you want to pay someone that much to play FROM THE BENCH?
dap01
July 8th, 2010
8:34 am
Why don’t JJ stay at $119 million and not let his salary go up due to the new salary cap numbers and actually help our team out. That what true leaders do, that is what winners do.
I bet he don’t.
GeeMack
July 8th, 2010
8:34 am
I wonder if LeBron would consider coming to the Hawks if we gave Clevland Josh Smith, Jamal Crawford and a 1st round pick next year.
That way he still plays for a contender, leaves his home team with some peices to still be competative and make the playoff, and he would still be the man on his own team.
JJ
July 8th, 2010
8:36 am
MC –
There seems to be conflicting thoughts from the ASG. On the one hand, you said they don’t want to mess with the “core” guys, but also that the best way to get better is through a trade? How do they trade AND get something of value without giving up something of value (from the core)?
They don’t have enough room under the cap to go the FA route and get someone that will really help. And even if they are willing to “pay the tax for certain player(s)”, aren’t all the players that would fit the mold of making this team better (elite guards and centers) already off the market?
It looks and smells like a trade is the only way to go (if, IF they are serious about getting better), but that brings back the original question of keeping the “core” intact.
dap01
July 8th, 2010
8:54 am
Ken: In your previous post, you trade Marvin and you also start him on next years team.
Did you mean to trade someone else?
doc
July 8th, 2010
8:54 am
melvin your question about tax and championships are relevant. the two highest payrolls this year ended up in the finals. the top eight teams except us spent about 75 mil or more is what i remember. so it is defining if they decide to stay below tax as that will make them pretenders not contenders. unless al h becomes superman 2 this year at his salary then we are destined to mediocrity if we dont land in tax land. simple math no matter how ld coaches or the team plays it wont have enough bullets in their gum come series two of the playoffs.
i imagine if i were them and the heat pull the coup of the threesome of queen, wade and bosh i would not be willing to spend foolishly and would throw in th towel for contending and want to put the nicest team out there possible to be competitive. i would not spend top dollar for that goal either.
JoJo the Godfather
July 8th, 2010
9:31 am
I’d look at Mike Bibby, Mo Evans & a draft pick to Washington for Kirk Hinrich…Washington does this because it’s less contracts, they get a couple veterans, and they pick up a draft pick…Atlanta gets a defensive minded PG that can hit the 3 (with a 2-yr front loaded contract)…The GM’s can decide the quality of the draft pick…Hawks’ guard rotation becomes Johnson & Hinrich starting, 6th man Ja Crawford, with youngsters Jo Crawford & Teague as backups.
macaroni tony
July 8th, 2010
9:34 am
and why do we want to trade Jamal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loOQJOwr2uw&feature=fvw
Melvin
July 8th, 2010
9:36 am
Doc,
If the ASG wave the white flag b/c the Heat gets the queen then smart fans such as yourself will see it and not attend games. Attendence would drop drastically and the only games that would sellout are the Heat and Lakers… The competition is getting better, so either they rise to the occassion or fold and have a fire sale/rebuild (again)…
mark
July 8th, 2010
9:45 am
i don’t blame jj for taking the money, chris bosh is a damn fool. i don’t think the hawks are bad as some would like us to believe. if we could snt childress for the mcgee kid in washington. maybe dorrell wright. and bring back joe smith and use him this time around we could stay in the top for 4@ least 5 in the east.
mark
July 8th, 2010
9:56 am
macaroni tony i am with you why would you want to trade jamal crawford. beside his instant offense he plays hard. he is a team player. he is a class act. the man got game. if he got traded to Miami or any team that was considered a title contender. coming of the bench producing what he is doing in the atl. they would just mail them the rings. keep jamal.
MojoD
July 8th, 2010
10:02 am
I agree with Stretch: At this point and no matter where Lebron ends up going, the Hawks will be about a 6th seed next season and I believe most likely lose in the first round. Even if they make it to the second round they’d have to play the Magic, Heat, or possibly Cavs/Bulls. Although I’d like to see them get a big man and an actual decent starting PG. Bibby is too old to get the job done these days. If we could add two decent players while keeping our core I believe we could be a competitive team. We need to resign JChildress and work out a sign and trade with him since he has some value and doesn’t want to play in Atlanta. Ship out Marvin Williams and Mike Bibby while you’re at it. Heck I’m all for trading anyone on our roster if it improves our team. We must make moves now if we even stand a chance. If it’s the same team as last year we all know what to expect. Another sad, disappointing playoff appearance.
macaroni tony
July 8th, 2010
10:02 am
I feel you on that comment Mark
macaroni tony
July 8th, 2010
10:06 am
and If the Queen go to the Heat, that doesn’t make them better than us. We have a time that has been together for a while. We look at teams that has so call made major moves, then answer me question how in the HELL is the Heat, Bulls, and Knicks are better than us when they don’t even have a complete team. The Heat only have four players that will be under contract and the Knicks got like five.
O'Brien
July 8th, 2010
10:23 am
Doc, Melvin,
The fact that the ASG gave JJ the money they did suggests they will not wave a white flag. And that’s good for us fans. Hopefully, they will spend (or trade) wisely to improve the rest of the team.
Even if LeBron goes to Miami, they still have major holes to fill. PG, Center, and bench depth, which means they would probably have at least 5 guys playing for the minimum salary.
If Lebron really wants to win, I think Chicago is the place to go. Rose, Boozer, Noah and LeBron, plus Deng off the bench (if they can’t trade him) is a good nucleus to start with. All they would really need is shooters.
moboman
July 8th, 2010
10:41 am
What a week!! The whole league is in limbo until tonight. By this time next week it will be a different story. Many of the moves will have been made. LBJ can take either Bulls or Heat and win it all. Hawks have very interesting choices to make too. And they will make some, good or bad remains to be seen.
moboman
July 8th, 2010
10:43 am
@obrien I agree that Chicago would be a better choice for Lebron.
Rufus1
July 8th, 2010
10:56 am
What We know…..
If Lebron leaves the Cavs, we are better than them…
What We Know…..
When Deng becomes the 4th or 5th scoring option in Chicago on a good team, his production will look more like Marvin Williams…AT 5MIL MORE A YEAR.
What We Don’t Know…
How good Drew will be?
How Much organic growth will occur with the Hawks?
How OLD will Boston be?
With Boozer, is Chicago better than the Hawks?
What difference Teague and a defensive center will mean to our team?
TO ALL YOU PESSIMISTS …THE HAWKS WON 53 GAMES NOT 12 GAMES LAST YEAR…HAVE A LITTLE FAITH!!!!
PMC
July 8th, 2010
10:59 am
So what you’re saying MC is that even in the 1st year of this JJ contract…. it’s still not great for the Hawks?
OH well they are a playoff team at least.
PMC
July 8th, 2010
11:01 am
We do have a pretty good Basketball team in Atlanta and they are still fairly young.
If Lebron goes to Miami after the Heat and the Magic the Hawks are probably a 3rd seed still unless Boston plays better in the regular season. The Bulls are maybe a little better other than that though… still being 3rd in the east isn’t bad.
doc
July 8th, 2010
11:15 am
o’b and melvin it will be interesting to follow the money if the heat get what they want …. a nice team or a competitive team. nice teams make 50 wins their goal, competitive teams make the efort to get the brass ring and spend accordingly. i dont mind nice tams bit dont make them out to be more than that. we had a very nice team last year. nice doesnt go far in the playoffs.
jfreak13713
July 8th, 2010
11:22 am
The Hawks will finish no better than 5th in the East! The other teams got MUCH better but the Hawks stayed the same. They played the PREVENT defense while the other teams were playing to WIN.
1. Miami
2. Bulls / Cleveland (if LeBron stays)
3. Orlando
4. Celtics
5. Hawks or Nicks
LeBron decision could change this. Hawks would not get out of the first round!
ICEMANcometh10
July 8th, 2010
11:29 am
REMEMBER THIS:
The Hawks will be ok this year. JJ is no Kontrack he just has some public relations issues he has to work on. He got the max because he is good enough and was smart enough not to take the mid year offer of 7 years @ 75 million.
As far as LBJ going to Miami if that happens don’t worry the rest of their roster will be filled with NBDL players and that will make the big three overpayed and overplayed which =’s no championship…………………………..ICEMAN
3Klub
July 8th, 2010
11:42 am
MC
Any truth to to rumor Chills for McGee S&T?
Veteran Fan
July 8th, 2010
11:43 am
The Hawks have to fix the pg and c spots or there is no improvement. Shaq is a sideshow and should go somewhere else! Either trade Marvin and Josh Smith for Chris Paul or a sign and trade deal for David Lee with JJ going to the Knicks with Bibby. Or do both deals and resign Childress. Starting line up Lee, Horford, Childress, Crawford, and Paul. Reserves Zaza, Crawford, Teague, and Evans. Might even be able to pry West out of New Orleans by throwing Childress into the deal.
Grandad
July 8th, 2010
11:45 am
Since when does three beat Five?
doc
July 8th, 2010
11:49 am
people can complain all they want about this event tonight. reality is the nba has never been more in the news and relevant to the casual fan. all talk stations are going on and on about basketball like never before. stern has to like that. i mean every time i have turned on anything that is close to sports it has been about the nba and the ufa’s. that has to have been huge free publicity.
now the question will be is how the competitive balance changes after tonight? will riles and d wade show how powerful they were and pull off the theft of the century? if they do then they become the favs if they put some rugged ballers around them willing to play roles. if not then the competition opens up to many teams in the east especially if he stays in cleveland. i wonder what stern wants to see happen for the east; 5 to 6 really competitive teams like in the west or a single dominant team to take all the fun out of the regular season?
Volman
July 8th, 2010
11:57 am
Doc…LeBron’s team in the past were the “regular season champions”, but never won a thing.
I really am not too worried about this big three in Miami. If they get a good center, point guard, and bench…then it’s time to be scared.
Celtics are older too… I see the Boozer deal as okay but they still don’t have a good 2-Guard or a good bench.
Ah well. I can’t wait for this deal to be over. LBJ is the biggest attention wh#$%# I’ve ever “witnessed”.
Grandad
July 8th, 2010
11:59 am
Ken Strickland
*N.O.trade proposal/involving Okafor*
My only amendment to your idea would be to add Bibby
and try to entice them to take Bibby some sort of way.
We would be taking an egregious contract from them
and Bibby would be expiring next yr. [for them].
Adding Bibby make’s it even more palatable for us.
Volman
July 8th, 2010
12:02 pm
Grandad—you want to trade Bibby?
So we’ve got Teague starting (unproven) and nobody to back him up?
Grandad
July 8th, 2010
12:05 pm
Ken Strickland
You reckon I really want to rid ourselves of Bibby.
I only mentioned his name 4 times in 5 sentences.
Somehow I see him as our linch-pin to down-fall.
I think he needs to go for more than contractual reasons.
terrell
July 8th, 2010
12:07 pm
If Lebron goes on TV and announces that he’s leaving Cleveland, he’ll be the most hated sports figure in Cleveland sports history. lol! Honestly, I hope he leaves, and Cleveland, of all teams ,knocks him out of the Playoffs. lol! Heat with Lebron, Wade, and Bosh still wont win the East. Book it!
ctrim
July 8th, 2010
12:07 pm
We made Ja Jo Crawford expendable once we drafted Ja Crawford. I like Teague but I would argue that our Team needs a point guard more than a center. I’d trade Ja Crawford and Smooth for CP3 in a heartbeat. We would still need more beef in front court but CP3 would make everyone better and take some pressure off JJ. Chances are that isn’t going to happen but this is still a PG league- not sure if I want to go all in with Teague at the Point.
With the drafting of Jo Crawford do you think we’ll see JJ more at SF this year? I like this line up:
JT Point
Ja Crawford SG
JJ SF
Josh PF
Al C
We still need another big and if we trade Josh for a PG then we’ll need 2 – Sund still has a lot to do before the season begins.
Grandad
July 8th, 2010
12:08 pm
Volman
Yes – w/o question.
he’s not a backup pg no-more than I am.
He’s an undersized, slow, shooting guard now.
-AND-
He’s gonna be a bitchy one @ that!!!
Grandad
July 8th, 2010
12:10 pm
Volman
Obviously we need to pick one up.
FA’s abound.
*Kyle Lowry = my 1st choice if he has not already signed.
Grandad
July 8th, 2010
12:11 pm
Volman – bi-annual.
tyger
July 8th, 2010
12:12 pm
Too good to be true….
Shaq going to Spurs, Hawks don’t have the money to contend. Another year of Jason Collins and Joe Smith and whatever other scrubs they can scrape off the NBA floor.
bigstack19
July 8th, 2010
12:15 pm
So it boils down to Miami can sign everybody. Boston can improve. Orlando can improve. Chicago can add someone, and the Hawks will pretty much trot out the same team that got killed by Orlando and barely beat Milwaukee who only had 8 healthy players. Also, they have an unproven head coach who is supposed to trot out a new offense. Seems like another early playoff exit for the Hawks. People say the fans are cynical but it is hard to get excited when you already know the outcome 4 months before the season starts.
Volman
July 8th, 2010
12:29 pm
Bigstack—it doesn’t hurt when those teams DRAFTED their stars. Miami has 2 players under contract, so they’re able to sign three big-name players. Orlando is in the luxury tax and last time I checked they finished at the same place as we did (not winning a championship). Some franchises get lucky and get franchise players. The Hawks didn’t get any of them, so they have to be creative with trades and free agency to get star players…but you have to have CAP ROOM to sign big-name players. If we wanted to “free up room”, you’re going to lose more games…and wouldn’t you complain about that, too?
I didn’t know the 2nd round was an “early exit” from the playoffs. Being a top-8 team in the NBA sounds good to me (two years in a row).
If you’re such a winner and starved to see such a “great franchise” then maybe you should follow the Lakers, since they “win”. Or else, stop complaining.
Miami–drafted Wade.
Orlando—drafted Howard.
Chicago–drafted Rose (biggest contract is probably Deng)
Boston— this is an exception, but I don’t see how they have improved this summer.. unless you think getting older is improving (and no, this isn’t fine wine)
Grandad–
I still like Bibby..but off the bench. He’s a good shooter, and leads the team. His defense is miserable…but he really did try last year. Don’t know if we will be able to get someone good to back up Mr. Rook. Maybe we can pluck T-Lue out from somewhere! Ha!
Volman
July 8th, 2010
12:32 pm
Oh yeah, adding in Rondo being drafted by Boston (since all the “experts” at ESPN has dubbed this guy the next great PG).
Grandad
July 8th, 2010
12:36 pm
Volman
Don’t laugh it might happen
Nah
Well, then again, maybe
Just kiddin’
Sorta???
Volman
July 8th, 2010
12:39 pm
Grandad—
If we get someone as a backup PG, I’d like Rafer Alston. Really like his game. Period!
KevinM
July 8th, 2010
12:43 pm
if anyone believes that bringing back our top 8 for next year is enough, you are definitely drinking the cap koolaid. You pay Joe 25% of your available money, now you better increase your overall salary to over 75-80 for the sake of the limitations we had last year.
Until we get some semblance of a center, then I stand pat in that the ASG is not intent in making a serious run to win a championship. I don’t think the popularity of the Hawks has ever been stronger in this city. It is time to prove we can compete with the Lakers, Magic and Celtics in the playoffs.
Volman
July 8th, 2010
12:49 pm
Kevin, the ASG has stepped up… just because they’re not $20 million over the luxury tax line (like the Lakers) doesn’t mean they aren’t trying. If the ASG is going to keep paying money for star players, then they need to know that the fans will come out.. This is coming from someone who has had season tickets for 5 years. You have no idea how quiet the Wizards games are when there are maybe 10,000 people there at the maximum. Atlanta is a pretty bad sports city, just plain and simple.
So far, nobody shows up…unless LeBron is in town.
Pass me the koolaid.
DP
July 8th, 2010
12:50 pm
Between $124 million for the likes of stat accumulator Joe Johnson and this LeBron fiasco I think I’m about done with the NBA.
O'Brien
July 8th, 2010
1:04 pm
Volman,
If Chicago misses out on LeBron, they still have about $15 mil to spend, and plenty of shooters available (Kyle Korver, JJ Redick, Anthony Morrow, Mike Miller), none of which will cost more than $10 mil.
So they will still have $5 mil left for another solid piece or two (again, assuming LeBron doesnt sign there).
Ken,
I was never a Woody fan, and I like what Drew has been saying. However, the problem was not all Woody’s fault. Players were to blame for some of the issues too, so there is no guarantee that changing HC will fix all the issues.
I think we need to trade Jamal for a legit big (sure, DJ Mbenga or Petro would help, but are they really the guys a contending team would sign to take the next step). And with Horford getting his big raise next year, we won’t be able to afford Jamal when his contract expires. Plus his value should be high right now (SMOY, and $10 mil expiring).
If Chills signs an offer sheet, he could be traded too, not to mention Mo Evans and Bibby, so Hawks have trade pieces (although I’m not sure how attractive they are).
Volman
July 8th, 2010
1:13 pm
O’Brien— I don’t see any of those players you just listed as anyone that puts Chicago over the top.
N.D.T.K.A.
July 8th, 2010
1:20 pm
Does anyone ever think that all these crazy moves by the likes of Miami (a team we eliminated from the playoffs two years ago with D.Wade), Chicago (lottery team since Kukoc and Pippen left), Knicks(bottom feeder thanks to Isaiah Thomas and reckless spending and management), New Jersey (another bottom feeder), and Cleveland (without Lebron = non-playoff team) are desperate reactionary moves to get better because maybe they see a team like the Hawks as an up and coming club. We resigned our “star” in J.J. Most teams wanted Joe as a 2nd option but at a discount. All of the analyst and rumor pundits, who really don’t like the Hawks kept saying J.J. was gone. ASG made the commitment and J.J. signed. Rudy Gay signed with Memphis. This messed up some of these teams plans to cherry pick good players from smaller tier teams like the Hawks and Grizzlies.
Folks let’s not make the Hawks just like these desperate clowns by making a dumb move by trading off quality assets in an attempt to get better. Getting rid of Woody and hiring Drew should help a lot, along with our guys getting better, and making smart trades from a position of strength not weakness. Just say no to giving away Josh for CP3 ,who as was discussed on this blog previously, just came off major surgery (very risky).
Let’s just see how all of this plays out, Miami and the Knicks have to fill there roster with players. Miami will be broke if Lebron signs; Knicks will have to overpay for lesser talent to fill there roster. Now a little patience may be best to get a quality trade as too many teams have a ton of money and the free agent bums know it. Wait for a trade or propose a sign and trade to these desperate clubs who promised there fans a winner and get a trade that will help the team.
Stop acting like we won 12 games last season, if Sund plays his hand right we may take the next step this season.
Hawks in the 2010-2011 NBA finals!!
bigstack19
July 8th, 2010
1:29 pm
Volman… Getting killed in the second round is an early exit. Making the NBA Finals and winning championships should be the only goal. If everyone else makes strides to improve and the Hawks biggest off-season move was to overspend for a 21 point per game player who may be on the down slope of a good but not great career then yes they will make an early exit. Teams like the Lakers and Celtics would consider the 2nd round and early exit and I bet Orlando thought getting knocked out in the Eastern Finals was too early and exit. The 2nd round may be okay for you and probably Hawks ownership, but the vast majority of fans want championships. No strides are being made towards that goal and with no money it will be impossible to do so.
Grandad
July 8th, 2010
1:32 pm
It’s time for G-Dad’s Trade o’ the Day:
Toronto gets:
*Marv + Jordan Crawford
Hawwks get:
*Andrea Bargnani
Toronto’s motive:
Their starting over to a degree.
They need a shooting guard. [Jordan C.]
They just drafted Ed Davis. [replace A.B.]
Marv’s a young talent needing a new start.
Hawks motive:
We get a BIG.
A stretch [4] or [5].
A.B. = a long 7 ftr who blocks shots.
Offensively he doesn’t restrict J & A.
*[A.B. plays facing & shoots extremely high 3 pt %]
A. B. excellent passer for LD’s system.
Win/Win
Volman
July 8th, 2010
1:37 pm
Bigstack—
We’re on the same page for a couple of things. Of course I want the Hawks to win an NBA Title. That’s why we’re all here. Nobody wants to lose…So that statement you made regarding that is asenine. The ASG wants to win championships, too. It’s easy to say someone else is cheap when it isn’t your money.
“Getting killed” is exactly what it was. Ask the 13 win Hawks team from about 5 years back what their definition of an “early exit” is. I bet you they would be thrilled to be in the playoffs, period.
If your expectations of that team last year was to win the NBA Title, then you should be disappointed in the Hawks. I, for one, KNEW the Hawks didn’t have a chance to win the title, but I still had my season tickets because I’m a huge fan of the team. I love this team. Now what the ASG and Sund should do (to become championship caliber) is to trade certain pieces that will improve this team. They weren’t a championship team last year, so there weren’t expectations to win any titles. I was not content with their miserable playoff performance (round 1 and 2) but wasn’t expecting them to beat Orlando.
However you slice it, Orlando was in the same position as us at the end of the season. In your words, they “didn’t make the NBA Finals” and they “didn’t win the NBA Title”.
Laying out blanket statements like, “oh the Lakers and Celtics think a 2nd round exit is an early exit” is ludicrous. Of course they would be upset with that early of an exit with all of the money they have spent, and not to mention the fact that THEY MADE IT TO THE FINALS LAST YEAR.
How about comparing apples to apples. We are not the Lakers. We are not the Celtics.
Maybe that’s something you need to wrap your mind around or get over.
Banker
July 8th, 2010
1:39 pm
Only two possible trades interest me.
1) Horford/Marvin/Bibby = CP3
2) Horford/Marvin/Bibby = Carmelo
That would leave us CP3, JJ, Crawford, Josh, ZaZa or
Teague, JJ, Carmelo, Josh, ZaZa (with Crawford off the bench)
Would these teams do it? Possibly replace Josh with Horford?
To win it all you need 2 stars with Josh Smith as rising player. You could find another body to share time with Zaza at the 5.
Ziggy
July 20th, 2010
11:25 am
I hope the Hawks take Josh Boone Calhoun played him as started when he was a freshman all the way to a National championship watched all the games when I lived in New York. I now live in Georgia. Besides the weather in GA is a lot better than NJ and cheaper to live here.
Ziggy Savannah GA