Atlanta Hawks: Still on track with J.J.
It’s still not (unofficially) official yet but Joe Johnson and the Hawks remain on track to reach agreement on a six-year, maximum contract for the free agent.
The Hawks and J.J. have been working out the details of the contract since a second meeting on Thursday. Some reports suggested Johnson was waiting to see what happens with other free agents before accepting the deal, but the Hawks have been confident a deal would be reached.
Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo Sports! tweeted early Sunday that “the Bulls and Knicks have long since moved on” from trying to recruit J.J.
The contract is expected to be worth roughly $120 million, with the exact value to be determined after the league completes its audit later this week. The Hawks and Johnson can agree to terms now but a contract can’t be signed until July 8.
Once the contract is signed, the Hawks would about $63 million in salaries committed to 10 players for 2010-11. That includes J.J.’s projected salary of roughly $15.8 million and Jordan Crawford’s rookie-scale salary of about $1 million . The total doesn’t include the $4.8 million qualifying offer for restricted free agent Josh Childress.
MC
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157 comments Add your comment
ART
July 4th, 2010
1:15 am
8=====D
Melvin
July 4th, 2010
1:28 am
I’m up and here with you MC. Let’s get Joe signed and eat some barbeque later today…
Hawks Mess
July 4th, 2010
1:35 am
Buyer beware, as Johnson is a minutes hound who puts up big numbers as a result and is about to hit the downside of his career. – NBA.com
Why does everyone know this but our owners?
Gilk
July 4th, 2010
1:48 am
Now “On To The Next One” … what “starting caliber center” can the Hawks fetch either in a free agent signing or blockbuster trade? MC, please explore in subsequent blogs the following guys and their fit as the starting 5 for the Hawks:
-Al Jefferson (Minnesota)
-Tyson Chandler (Charlotte)
-Brendan Haywood (UFA – previously Dallas)
-Greg Oden (Portland)
-Joel Pryzbilla (Portland)
-Chris Kaman (LA Clippers)
-DeAndre Jordan (LA Clippers)
-Andrew Bynum (LA Lakers)
-Marcin Gortat (Orlando)
-Emeka Okafor (New Orleans)
Personally, I have no qualms dangling Josh Smith and RFA Josh Childress in order to FINALLY get a starting center here. I think Horford would blossom in his natural position as a power forward. Build the team around Joe, Horford, and Teague. I say keep Marvin 1 more year to see if Larry Drew can draw his potential out. After that, pull the plug and trade his contract (and Bibby’s) elsewhere.
Jesse
July 4th, 2010
1:48 am
Joe is not worth the money when he’s 33 and 34. We’re going to be paying him 20+ million for 14 ppg. And he’ll be impossible to trade.
cdog
July 4th, 2010
2:02 am
THE HAWKS NEED TO THINK ABOUT WINNING A CHAMPIONSHIP.BRING PLAYERS BY NOT WORRY ABOUT MONEY.IF YOU PUT A GOOD PRODUCT ON THE FLOOR, YOU WILL WIN AND THEN YOU MAKE YOUR MONEY BY WINNING.JOHNSON BY FAR, IS NOT A STAR PLAYER THAT YOU CAN BUILD A TEAM AROUNG.HE’S NOT MENTALLY TOUGH NOR IS HE A WINNER.MANY WILL WITHNESS THE FALL OF THE HAWKS IF THIS DEAL GOES THROUGH BUT QUESS WHAT, RICK SUND DOESN’T CARE ABOUT WINNING A CHAMPIONSHIP.HE WILL PUT A COME UP SHORT PRODUCT ON THE FLOOR THEN HE ADMIRE OTHER TEAMS THAT ARE WINNING.WE NEED LEADERS INMANAGEMENT WHO ARE COMMITED TO WINNING A CHAMPIONSHIPS NOT OWNERS THAT LOOKS FOR EXCUSES AND CONTINUE TO MAKE DUMB LOSING MOVES. THATS WHY THE QUALITY FREE AGENTS HAVE NOT POINTED THEMSELVES TOWARD THE HAWKS.THEY KNOW ABOUT RICK SUND.LEBRON AND AMARE STOUDMIER WOULD LOVE TO COME TO ANY CITY INCLUDING ATLANTA IF SUND AND THE REST WILL DO THINGS RIGHT AND PAY THE MONEY TO IMPROVE THE TEAM BUT WITH RICK , THATS TOO MUCH LIKE DURING WHATS RIGHT.
Hopeful Hawks Fan
July 4th, 2010
2:16 am
cdog, We can’t sign them because we dont have enough freaking money to. Why don’t people understand that…
right
July 4th, 2010
2:20 am
we dont have to wait for josh to blossom he is a very very good power forward and much better than horford trade horford now!h
Jerry West
July 4th, 2010
2:21 am
Amending my trade from another comment:
Josh for Biedrins and Anthony Randolph
right
July 4th, 2010
2:23 am
horford about as good as he gets. Josh will be a super star and is one of the top 3 forwards in the nba !
right
July 4th, 2010
2:26 am
trade our center for a center
right
July 4th, 2010
2:28 am
Gik I ag ree on day may be horford will be better at power forward no matter which team hes traded to.
right
July 4th, 2010
2:30 am
it doesnt matter which position horford’s at he wont play defense!
Gilk
July 4th, 2010
2:30 am
right, i respectfully disagree re: Josh vs. Al Horford at power forward. Josh has lapses in his basketball IQ in nearly every game. And is low-post offensive game is non-existent. I do appreciate his defensive skills and don’t want to lose that. Just like my wish for Marvin Williams, maybe Larry Drew can get the greatness out of Josh … I was encouraged when Drew said that he wanted Josh to go down low and operate in the post and not on the perimeter. No way do I see Josh being effective as a 3 for the Hawks.
Pat McCrotch
July 4th, 2010
2:42 am
@right- Put down the crack pipe, buddy.
I lost what little faith I hade left in the Hawks organization. Joe is not worth it. He will be way too old in 6 years to be making $20 mil. We will be handcuffed for the last four years of that contract.
Clyde
July 4th, 2010
3:05 am
The Sprit Group does not know how to run a NBA franchise
Clyde
July 4th, 2010
3:08 am
The only thing Horford is good for is a jump shot
Clyde
July 4th, 2010
3:10 am
If Joe signs we will have the same squad as last year. That means another 2nd round sweep.
Clyde
July 4th, 2010
3:15 am
20 million a year for player and you pay your coach one million. Spirit Group outta be ashamed.
Clyde
July 4th, 2010
3:17 am
Joe Johnson = Alan Houston
no id
July 4th, 2010
3:26 am
Get over it people! Joe is going to sign..let’s just hope that this sorry group of owners we have make a trade or something to help improve the team.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 4th, 2010
3:37 am
“Josh has lapses in his basketball IQ in nearly every game. And is low-post offensive game is non-existent.”
Neither Horford nor Josh have much of a low-post offensive game to write home about. Right now all Al has in the low post is a turnaround jumper and all Josh has is a running lefty hook. Josh draws more fouls in the low post than Al and does a better job passing out of the double team, so Josh actually gets the edge right now.
As long as Al is at center, he should be more focused on developing his face-up game — if he ever realized how to use his quickness advantage offensively, he would easily put up 20 a game even at the center position.
~~MAC-ToWN~~ (Area Code 478)
July 4th, 2010
4:51 am
Clyde
July 4th, 2010
3:10 am
If Joe signs we will have the same squad as last year. That means another 2nd round sweep.
…………………………………..
considering how much these other Eastern teams are “loading up”…not to mention the likes of ORL still around…..we’ll be lucky to beat the 2nd, 3rd or 4th seed in the 1st round…depending which bottom playoff spot we fall into.
vava74
July 4th, 2010
4:54 am
Right now all points out at trading Jamal Crawford to get some inside help, someone who can share evenly the minutes with Josh and Al but comes off the bench with more inside bulk.
As much as I like Jamal as our bench weapon, he is our only trading chip and a defensive liability.
Jordan Crawford should be able to bring us similar production by year 2 or maybe even by the end of this year.
Zaza is not physical enough and plays smaller than he is so he isn’t the the type of big we need. He is more of a PF than a C both offensively and defensively.
Maybe we can snatch Priz from the Blazers to be our enforcer.
A sign and trade for Dampier if Shaq signs with Dallas would not cut it completely but would be acceptable for 20/22 minutes of bulk off the bench.
Maybe we can package
STRETCH
July 4th, 2010
4:58 am
Enter your comments here
STRETCH
July 4th, 2010
5:02 am
Its a shame that these owners cant figure out what the real problem is. ONE player sucking up all the teams money. ONE player cant win you a championship.
The money is on the table but he wont eat cause he knows he wont be able to get a championship in Atlanta. He knows that he is a Robin and not a Batman and that the critizism will be unbearable after he accepts that contract and another 2 round exit.
Clearly a desperation move by a terrible organization once again!
Why not spend that money on 2 or maybe 3 quality players that can contribute right away?
Why spend all your money on hamburgers and head home home knowing that you dont have any buns at home?!
But i forgot were down south, so they will use sandwich bread.
Ken Strickland
July 4th, 2010
5:14 am
Too many of you are judging the OFF abilities of JSmith, AHorford and MWilliams based on how they performed in a very limited ISO dependent OFF. With more fast breaking, screens, ball and player movement, and less dependence on having our bigs in ISO situations trying to beat the defender off the dribble, they should become far more efficient and effective offensively.
CLYDE-when a center leads his team in rebounds and is 2nd in blocks, it proves he’s more than just jump shooter. It’s obvious you don’t like AHorford, for whatever reason, but to try to trivialize his accomplishments in a weak attempt to justify your opinion of him makes you look bad, my friend.
Why complain about the amount of money the ASG is paying LDrew. To get a better HC for less money is a positive in my book. Besides, LDrew didn’t seem to have a problem with it when he signed the contract. He’ll get his money 2yrs from now after he’s proven what he can do.
When Horford complained during an interview about needing more help on the boards, I’m pretty certain he was referring to SF MWilliams. Marvin has proven he can be a factor on the boards, but he just hasn’t done it with any degree of consistency. I firmly believe that involving him more in the OFF, instead of the habit of having him clear out and stand around on the perimeter, or having him go one on one when he does have a play called for him, will elevate his entire gm.
GILK-the biggest problem with your list is JPryzbilla and BHeywood are the only free agents on your list. Heywood wants to be a starter and is leaning heavily towards returning to Dallas, since he knows he has an excellent chance of replacing Dampier. TChandler is off the market since he decided not to opt out of the final yr of his contract. Our best bet, and possibly our only bet, is to sign a FA like NMohammed, MCamby, and maybe NKrstic or JPryzbilla, assuming one of them decides to opt out of his contracts.
MGortat and DJordan have yet to prove they are starting quality centers.
Ken Strickland
July 4th, 2010
5:23 am
STRETCH-AHorford is an All Star center, JCrawford was 6th man of the yr, and JSmith was in the All Star running last yr. I wouldn’t call that sandwich bread. And don’t they use sandwich bread in the North, East and West? Why don’t you name 2 or 3 quality players that are available and the Hawks can afford. The Hawks are able to resign JJ to a max contract because of the Larry Bird rule, which doesn’t apply to any other available FA on the market.
Instead of trying to be sarcastic, try being informed and intelligent.
Marcus
July 4th, 2010
7:28 am
MC,
to echo the comments of above (and my own post yesterday): What difference-making big man is available in the Hawks price range? I just don’t see it.
Hayward is leaning back towards DAL, T. Chandler/Ch. Frye resigned, as did my fav Amir Johnson (more PF than C).
D21
July 4th, 2010
7:40 am
I like the fact they talked about spending to improve the team, but why don’t we hear anything except this O’Neal rumor which could be more Jermaine than Shaq.
Do we need to say again that with the MLE we could be trying to get someone like Brad Miller, do we need to say again that ATL could try sign-&-trade for example for Bosh, exactly like Houston is doing (we don’t need to have cap room to pursue an UFA, we can trade our players for him).
I know it would be better to get a real C than Bosh, but there should be some things like that.
And don’t let walk Childress for nothing, because if nothing is done is the right direction except keeping Joe for 120M, it would not make any sense at all.
ASG can continue his silence work, but for once, please, don’t stay on this 120M offer, and go out get someone who really improve the team by trading all you want.
N-Trigue
July 4th, 2010
7:45 am
Tyrus Thomas is who we need at center! If he plays 30-34 mins he will provide 12-14pts 10-12rebs and 2-3blocks and is still young and not injury prone! He’s who we need not these other guys at center!
Hawk n the Ham
July 4th, 2010
8:16 am
At first I was skeptical on the whole contract thing with jj. But if we can lock up Joe and acquire a legitimate 5 man this summer, I am all for it. And I don’t really give a crappy about what jj said after the horrible playoff loss, I’m going to still make that 2 hour drive from Birmingham to watch the hawks wearing my Joe Johnson jersey.
Go Hawks!
Nahila
July 4th, 2010
8:17 am
Now that Dirk has shown he desires to be a team player for Dallas by agreeing to lower his new salary amount leaving Dallas enough room to go after additional key players in hopes of winning, why does Joe not do the same for the Hawks by lowering his contract amount so that the Hawks can sign Childress in lieu of having to trade him, and maybe also have Joe ask the Hawks for them to sign or trade for a starting center. Go after Shaq as he will bring enough new paying fans to the games that will more than pay for his salary and then some.
STRETCH
July 4th, 2010
8:39 am
Ken,
Why dont you name 2 or 3 teams inquiring about Hawks players, what are you a spokesperson for ASG now? One thing i do know is common sense. Whatever, its still a waste of money on a guy that wont wont be a factor in the next 3 or 4 years.
Josh Smith will still be a head case and Marvin and Bibby are gonna be the same or probably worse. Al will continue to give all he has but contiuously come up SHORT. So tell me, whats your plan since you are director of player development.
nes
July 4th, 2010
8:46 am
well Nahila hits the nail right on the head! J. Johnson is all about the MONEY! This is exactly why we are going to be stuck with the same team as last year, forget a center worth 3 million they saved on draft day and why in the world didn’t they just draft Whiteside and roll the dice on developing a true center or even trade up and drafted Daniel Orton if that is really the center they wanted-laughs, can’t get too picky in the late first round and early second round, go for the best center available period! JJ is not the team player the hawks need and no other team in the nba will even offer a max contract at 92 million and the hawks throw out 119 million, the joke is on ASG and that stupid GM Rick Sund who i’m sure is just following orders from the ASG to sign JJ without trying to sign other free agents who were available but now signed by other teams who were smarter and faster with the contracts. ASG–please sell out now!!
JOE
July 4th, 2010
8:49 am
yet another bad decision by Hawks management(Sund). Now you have 2 large contracts with Bibby and Williams that are useless and a huge contract with JJ for a guy that is just a jump shooter and can’t get to the basket( only by trying to back someone down SLOWLY). They are a terminal 2 round out as presently configured. I haven’t seen anyone else throwing out any big numbers for JJ yet because the rest of the league sees him as a second or third piece rather than the Hawks veiw of him as their “superstar”….. laughable
bigdave
July 4th, 2010
9:18 am
“Once the Hawks made a maximum offer on Thursday, Johnson never gave serious consideration to anything but a return to the Hawks. The Chicago Bulls and New York Knicks tried to engage him in talks, but Johnson did little more than politely listen.”
– Adrian Wojnarowski, 1:07 a.m. ET, July 4
was spun by the the guys @ ESPN as:
“Sources: Johnson likes Knicks, Bulls”
“Sources said his continued hesitancy to commit to the deal was a sign that Johnson wanted to keep his options open. ”
“One source said the chances of Johnson accepting Atlanta’s offer were “slightly” better that 50-50.”
i guess they have to cater to the ears of the larger markets. i guarantee if they would’ve managed to work a sign and trade for Joe it would’ve been deemed brilliance on their behalf; but when we make a play for our guy.. we over payed.. worst contract in history, etc.
Saint Richt
July 4th, 2010
9:24 am
The Hawks should tell Joke Johnson to sign the contract today by noon or GTFO…………better yet just tell him to hit the bricks now………….welcome to Salary Cap Hell.
eturn
July 4th, 2010
9:27 am
The Hawks are the laughing stock of the NBA. Do you ever hear of a player saying they want to come to Atlanta. The management make bone headed decisions. The national media is saying how bad of a contract Joe is getting. Do they seek others advice of what. Same old Hawks from years back. Koncak.. Speedy, Marvin, should I go on… lol
404atlhoops
July 4th, 2010
9:28 am
The Hawks resigned Joe Johnson because they had to and it’s the right thing to do. For those who are against JJ’s signing (arguably the 3rd best SG behind Bryant and Wade), please give me a legitimate option of what the Hawks should do instead. I don’t want to hear go after Wade, Bosh, Amare, Lebron because the Hawks do not have the money to do so with only a little over 5 mil under the cap. Even in a sign and trade, the Hawks will not get back comparable talent. Salmons is the only player I would consider and he is no where near the player Johnson is. As Rick Kamla said in a 790thezone radio interview, you don’t let Joe Johnson walk you buld with Johnson and add another piece.
This team will not be a playoff team next year without Johnson and go back to being a doormat. Also if I’m Al Horford why would I want to resign with the Hawks, when management did not attempt a best efforts to resign Joe Johnson, the team’s best player?
G-Money
July 4th, 2010
9:33 am
I am trying to figure out all of the naysayers on Joe Johnson. He executed an offense that he was told to execute, I don’t recall him calling plays for himself. He has not caused any off the court problems, and as far as has been reported, he is not a bad locker room presence. So he isn’t LeBron or D. Wade, newsflash for you, all of the other free agents in this class are not either. Has LeBron won a championship? Wade won, and played well with Shaq and some very interesting calls. If the market dictates that you pay him the max then you pay him the max. I find it quite interesting that all of us smart guys who do not have the wealth that the owners of the ASG have, most assuredly have all of the right answers.
w8102chawks
July 4th, 2010
9:37 am
An Allstar in his 2nd year in the league and Horford’s game is in guestion? Wow! Dude just left college after winning 2 Champs in a row and making the Allstar lineup playing out of position. I say give the young man a break and watch as his game continues to develope. I like having both Josh and Al, chimistry in developement. Who was the last 1st or 2nd year Hawk to be voted an Allstar.
eturn
July 4th, 2010
9:39 am
Actually G money there was some locker room problems.. Joe started to sulk when Jamal began to flourish on the team and started to score more points.. Joe was no longer the man at times. This was reported by a certain player on the team..So there was issues…and Woodson didnt address them.
Gatorman
July 4th, 2010
9:43 am
For those that want or don’t want him, look at the last year. The team won 50+ games for the first time since Dominique was here, and they seem to have a good mix of older veterans and younger talent. JJ came here to add offense after a period in (Phoenix I think) were he was third option. He has shown development over two years of doing his job better than anyone before him, and he did play some defense from the shooter position. However, they are offering him salary of an elite player when he isn’t, wow and they keep saying they can’t afford to bring in the veterans to make the bench stronger. Even the National press seldom uses his name when talking about the most valuable free agents, so is Atlanta’s management acting like that dufus in Dallas??? Any team has to look at one player value versus the others on the team, and if his contract immediately causes the other players to question what they’re getting, then you have an unsolvable problem. I only hope the powers to be step back look at the total picture and with draw the elite dollars and force a team like New York or Jersey to hock their future not Atlanta.
HawksBravesFalcons
July 4th, 2010
9:47 am
I agree with 404atlhoops. Yeah Joe may not be worth the over $100 million we are going to pay him, but who else is out there that we can afford? If we did a sign and trade, we would have to get rid of someone like Josh Smith or Al Horford, and I really don’t see this happening. Josh Smith CAN be the best power forward in the game and Al Horford can play power forward or center really well. I agree with most people in the idea that we need a new center and I really believe we should have drafted one instead of giving up picks for money. To solve this i think the hawks should trade zaza and bibby/williams, to get one of the more valuable centers in the league. That would move Josh to small forward, Al to power forward, Joe to shooting guard, and Jamal to point guard with our draft pick coming off the bench for joe and teague being sixth man.
Sund to Dawgs
July 4th, 2010
9:49 am
Thats right folks…u heard it here first. Sund is leaving to be AD in Athens (as soon as he completes his AA program).
eturn
July 4th, 2010
9:53 am
Josh Smith is a Headcase ppl. Its hard to change a person personality or way of doing things.. I dont think he will change. If he do..it will take a miracle from above.
eturn
July 4th, 2010
9:55 am
Enter your comments here
robdawg08
July 4th, 2010
9:58 am
Please don’t tell me the Hawks are going to pay this Jekkyl & Hyde player maximum money when he is 34 years-old ? Save the money. Joe doesn’t want to play for the hawks, he just can’t get a comparable offer from another team. I hate Hawks ownership.
Hey Cunningham, can you write a blog that doesn’t have your man-crush title on Joe Johnson ? Are you telling all us fans that the hope is resigning Joe or nothing ? With a great crop of free agents available ? Hawks could go over the cap and get some star players to win with. Joe Johnson IS NOT THE ANSWER.
Mookie
July 4th, 2010
10:01 am
Why not offer the same contract that Johnson got to James or Wade?
robdawg08
July 4th, 2010
10:06 am
Why don’t the Hawks offer JJ the same money the Knicks offered him ? Why do they have to give him 20 to 40 million more when he can’t get the same from other teams ? Just plain stupid and a waste of money. If you’ve got a player that can get only a $100 million 6 year contract then why would you pay him $120 or $150 million for 6 years ? Hawks ownership needs to take economics courses badly.
a village of idiots
July 4th, 2010
10:07 am
CDOG
STRETCH
RIGHT
ROBDAWG08
a village of idiots
July 4th, 2010
10:08 am
only the hawks can offer a 6th year, the othe teams can only offer 5, that’s why you IDIOT
Ken Strickland
July 4th, 2010
10:09 am
STRETCH-It’s blatantly obvious you couldn’t name a single player, so you went against everything I know you were taught in school about not answering a question with a question. And no, I’m not an ASG spokes person, I’m an avid Atlanta Hawks fan, and I have enough sense to recognize the ASG is what it is and all we have at this time.
I also have enough sense to know that as dysfunctional as they’ve been over the yrs, they still managed to put a very entertaining and talented team together. That is, unless you think a team that finishes 3rd in the Eastern conference with 53 wins, makes the playoffs 3 consecutive yrs, and makes it to the 2nd rd of the playoffs the last 2yrs, is a below average team.
These blogs are filled with many so called fans, who are negative minded individuals with an agenda, usually against a particular Atlanta Hawk individual. We have the MWilliams, AHorford, JSmith, JJohnson, ASG and RSund haters, as well as the WOODY LOVERS.
If the ASG is successful in following through on their projected play of signing a starting quality center, I see the following team being able to finally make some serious noise in the 2nd rd.
STARTERS: PG-JTeague, SG-JJohnson, SF-MWilliams, PF-JSmith & C-AHorford. Unlike the starting teams under HC MWoodson, this one will be able to play solid traditional DEF without needing to cover up for a PG that’s totally dysfunctional on DEF.
BENCH: PG/SG-JaCrawford, SG/SF-MEvans, SG-JoCrawford, C/PF-ZPachulia, PG/SG-MBibby, FA Center ?, FA ?. This would constitute a solid, talented and deep bench.
Isn’t this the same ASG that resigned it’s entire core of players except JChildress, who they still hold the rights to? And isn’t this the same dysfunctional ASG that has gone all out to resign the teams best and most versatile player, as well as the team leader in PPG and APG? IF YOU LOOK HARD ENOUGH, YOU CAN ALWAYS FIND SOMETHING TO B!TCH AND WHINE ABOUT, IF THAT’S YOUR ONLY CONCERN.
robdawg08
July 4th, 2010
10:09 am
Cunningham’s next four blogs will be :
1)Hawks close to signing JJ
2)Hawks extremely close to signing JJ
3)Hawks frog hair fine close to signing JJ
4) Hawks sign JJ
Damn, I’m tired of JJ.
a village of idiots
July 4th, 2010
10:09 am
add ETURN to the village
a village of idiots
July 4th, 2010
10:10 am
KEN, exactly. but you talking to an idiot so you will never get the point across, ever
robdawg08
July 4th, 2010
10:11 am
So the Hawks can offer 5 years too. Why do they have to offer JJ 6 years ? Hawks are catering to this average player like he was Michael Jordan. He would be the 2nd or 3rd best player on about 12 teams.
tls
July 4th, 2010
10:13 am
What no one, or few of us, seems to understand, is that the Hawks aren’t trying to win with the “best superstar” model. The Pistons of the 1980s and the 1990s had two teams that won back to back titles without true superstars. Their philosophy, which Hawks are trying to emulate, is “we are so much better than you 2 through 10, we’ll beat you that way.” I agree that Joe will never Out-Superstar Lebron, Dwight or Wade. However, I do think the Hawks have as good a talent 2-10 as anyone, especially if they get a proven legit center to tag-team with Horford. Losing Joe takes us out of even the 2-10 mold, especially given the lack of cap room to replace him with a superstar. Let’s wrap us things with Joe and get a good center, with either the MLE or a sign and trade with Chills. Then we should get over the hump.
The Puppet Master
July 4th, 2010
10:13 am
STRETCH you are absolutely correct. Atlanta had 1 3rd team All NBA Player and nobody else made the list. Period. Having said that play the video below
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/NBA-free-agency-LeBron-James-Dwyane-Wade-news-rumors
robdawg08
July 4th, 2010
10:15 am
a village of idiots : You need to go back to grammar school and learn how to spell.
JJ has a jock strap with your name on it JJ-lover !
eturn
July 4th, 2010
10:16 am
Seems as though you are in the village of idiots. village of idiots lol. Is that the only way you can express yourself. wow what a bone head
The Puppet Master
July 4th, 2010
10:17 am
The Hawks had 1 3rd team All nba player. period. The allstar team is a popularity contest not a most talented contest as the All NBA is .
NEW FLASH:
WOODY IS NO LONGER WITH THE HAWKS. THE BAR IS SET @ 53 GAMES AND 3RD SEED, WITH ONLY 1 3RD STRING ALL NBA PLAYER.
LETS GO HAWKS!
Grandad
July 4th, 2010
10:18 am
Bravo = Cliff
robdawg08
July 4th, 2010
10:18 am
tls, the point you are missing though is that the Hawks are offering him contract money that a SUPERSTAR gets not a core player. The problem I’ve got is with the high salary they are offering him when he can’t get near that much in free agency. Why overprice yourselves ?
The Puppet Master
July 4th, 2010
10:19 am
eturn if that guy is in serious discussion and argument with a”village of idiots….What does that make him?
Smart? LMAO
Grandad
July 4th, 2010
10:19 am
Bravo – cliff
secret agent
July 4th, 2010
10:20 am
grandad=a village of idiots
robdawg08
July 4th, 2010
10:21 am
Problem with this blog is there are 4 different users and one is about 35 different names. He answers himself,agrees with himself. Damn, you have a loser life.
Wabe
July 4th, 2010
10:23 am
Here’s the thing I’m having a hard time grasping…
A lot of the same faces that were preaching HARD after leading up to our 2nd round sweep and after our 2nd round sweep were extremely emotional about firing Woody.
You now see the same faces pointing the finger at Joe Johnson…
Why did we get bounced in the 2nd round of the playoffs?
You can’t have it both ways. You can’t blame Woody’s lack of a system and then point the finger at JJ for dribbling 24/7 to find his shot. Those two work hand in hand. Joe Johnson was the lead guy when he was brought in here. He was pulling his dribbling act from day 1, but the second the Hawks get a bit of recognition as one of the top teams in the league, people expected to see the offense evolve? Sund got rid of the guy that many blamed for this teams flaws. The lack of an offensive system, the constant switching on defense, the lack of minutes to help develop the younger talent on the roster – all of these factors were reasons for why Woody got axed.
Now, Joe Johnson’s getting hammered by the same folks?
“FIRE WOODY”
Remember that?
Not “FIRE JOE”, “FIRE WOODY” were the last words to many people’s posts. I pointed out on another blog that the only chance the Hawks would have at aquiring another player with JJ’s talent-level would be if they lucked out and drafted one in the coming years. There’s no way you’d see a big name FA pass up some of these bigger markets in these major hubs for the Hawks. THEREFORE, unless you wanna bank on the Hawks actually getting a draft pick right (something they’ve struggled to do throughout this past decade, then I’d suggest…
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
LOL
July 4th, 2010
10:23 am
The “village” is a huge metropolis.
a village of idiots
July 4th, 2010
10:26 am
aka ken strickland
The Puppet Master
July 4th, 2010
10:33 am
Woodson and JJ were tight. We should have known that chasing Woodson was the same as chasing JJ.
The Hawks were13th in offensive scoring .01 points behind the Lakers, nothing wrong with Woodsons offense. The Lakers were # 2 in defense(thats why they are champs) and the hawks # 17 (thats why they are not), Hawks couldnt stop any one at the rim.
Hence the demand for a center!
Josh is a better pf than horford so if anybody moves to the 3 its horford!
D21
July 4th, 2010
10:42 am
@Nes
ASG can’t sign the other UFA, but they can ask for a sign-&-trade for them, like Houston is trying with Bosh. The only guy they can directly sign is Joe and Childress, or if they renounce both, they can sign someone, but for only 8 or 9M, not more.
@404atlhoops
the problem is not re-signing Joe, it’s Joe at 120M.
If the guy agree to a 90M/6yrs, making 15M/yr which is more what is worth and already well paid, there won’t be lots of people asking Joe out.
For those only talking about sending Josh or Al to get a good sign-&-traded player, don’t forget that we have Crawford as 10M expiring.
At this moment, there won’t be a lot of team needing to clear 10M for 2011 summer, maybe later, but he can be add to Marvin or Zaza and get something.
I would add that Crawford is also one that eat money, with Joe if he takes 120M.
Why ?
Because Crawford did not bring so much more than Murray did the previous year, but for 10M instead of 2M or less.
ATL had 47W with Murray, and only 6 more with Crawford: 6W improvement could have been reach with keeping the same team, and without injuries like it was the case this year (while there were lots of injuries in the 47W season).
At the end, our 6th man cost us 8M more, but we are like the previous swept in the second round.
Now, maybe it will different with Larry Drew system, and maybe Crawford will be use rightly to get more than just what Murray was providing (I talk about impact on the game, not about cross-over or shake-&-bake moves).
So if Jordan Crawford can play, just be ready to trade Jamal Crawford.
Since it would be stupid to let him expire because in the words of ASG, we are now a team ready to spend to improve, it’s way better to trade him this summer than at the trade deadline, because the new player would work in training camp with other Hawks player, instead of having to learn on the fly in February.
Sund has to work on trade with Crawford now.
As we can get Childress back if needed, he has to be ready to include Marvin too, or Evans, because we have a SF in waiting if needed.
He can also use Zaza, or Bibby if we are sure to get a decent veteran PG (I am not on all the negative vibe on Bibby because even if he was out of shape last year and did not defend, fact is the team were often better with him on the floor than with him on the bench. He helps the offense so much that it’s balanced easily with the loss in defense, except against some real impact PG, that’s why we need to develop Teague, but keep Bibby if possible).
And if Sund targets a real very good player, he can decide to use Josh or Al.
With all that things, he can use the MLE, he can use the BAE, then minimum salaries.
Even if that’s not the easiest thing to do, he has material to improve this team if he has really the right to do it.
Until he show it, I won’t believe what ASG is saying, and the last thing I want to do is watching ATL being on the same level than last year with Joe starting to eat 5M more than before, and only that as improvement.
Big Ray
July 4th, 2010
10:46 am
Wabe ,
You’ve hit the nail on the head.
Section 303
July 4th, 2010
10:47 am
The Puppet Master, I watched the video you linked. It seems to me that Steven A. Smith is trying really hard to be an “insider” throughout all this free agent mess. He declared earlier this week that James, Wade, and Bosh were all going to Miami. Now, he’s backing off that and giving so many possible options that he is bound to be right on one of them. I think he is still in his ESPN mode of throwing mud at a wall and hoping some of it sticks. That is the ESPN montra and Steven A. Smith appears like he still follows it, despite not working for ESPN anymore.
JeJe
July 4th, 2010
10:52 am
The Joe contract obviously sucks,
but:
1) we have a new coach who might actually know what an offense is. While I believe that a lot of what Drew said is fluff (how he will give Marvin a role in the system [yet Marvin is being shopped] or that he has full faith in Teague [even though we are rumored to be interested in Duhon]), I think Joe will get easier baskets in a new system. Plus, he shows up for the big regular season home games. We need to somehow get him to play the same consistently in the playoffs
FIRE SUND
I think David Lee is not getting enough mention in this LBJ/DW3/Bosh drama. Lee costs much less than Bosh’s overconfident @$$ and is just as efficient in my opinion. Lee and Boozer are both a bit cheaper (Lee much cheaper) than Boozer or Amare and should be sought after by Chicago or Cleveland.
Also, I will be pissed if any teams does a S&T for Deng. BOYCOTT CHICAGO’S LBJ/DW/BOSH plan
The greatest thing that could happen to this team is if the ASG can sell the Thrashers. With Joe back at the max, we are only at 68M or so. Really, we just need to go into the LT, add 2 players, and this team will be in the ECF and beyond
IT’S TIME TO SPEND MONEY. SIGN SHAQ JUST FOR THE PURPOSE OF FILLING THE STANDS
FIRE SUND
Big Ray
July 4th, 2010
10:54 am
Robdawg08 ,
I understand your points. However, if the Hawks really want to hold on to Joe Johnson, then offering him a “max” contract, and that sixth year that no other team can offer, is the way to do it. It’s what any “home team” will do to make a serious play at keeping a guy. You know one of those Godfather situations : “Make him an offer he can’t refuse.”
Cleveland would do the same with Lebron, Phoenix would do it with Amare, Miami would do it with Wade, and so on. Toronto would do it with Bosh, even. Otherwise, the home team’s five year offer would be no more attractive than anybody else’s.
Am I saying this was the absolute best thing to do? No. We won’t know that until later. But this is how this part of the business strategy works. If the Hawks were “iffy” about keeping Joe, then any reasonable contract offer would suffice. And yeah, it always looks like too much money. These are the kinds of contracts that all-star players get in their prime.
Take Dwyane Wade for instance. He’s proven that he can only take the Heat so far by himself (can’t get past the 2nd round, I guarantee you). Yet there is not a single team that wouldn’t pay him the max contract he demands (which is more than Joe’s contract) to have him on their squad, including Miami. Would you agree he’s worth more than Joe? Most people would, yet he won’t get a squad any further by himself, as I said before. This is how it works, though.
Big Ray
July 4th, 2010
10:57 am
D21 ,
I disagree that Jamal didn’t bring “so much more” than Flip did. He brought significantly enough more, that he won SMOY. The guy put up 18 ppg and a few assists. But maybe that’s splitting hairs.
I do agree that he’s got wonderful trade value, and the addition of Jordan Crawford should help offset his absence, assuming:
1) Jordan Crawford doesn’t go all Salim Stoudamire on us.
and
2) We actually trade Jamal.
Big Ray
July 4th, 2010
10:58 am
Section 303 ,
Steven A. Smith is a loud mouth who has ALWAYS been full of it….
JeJe
July 4th, 2010
10:59 am
The Joe contract obviously sucks,
but:
1) we have a new coach who might actually know what an offense is. While I believe that a lot of what Drew said is fluff (how he will give Marvin a role in the system [yet Marvin is being shopped] or that he has full faith in Teague [even though we are rumored to be interested in Duhon]), I think Joe will get easier baskets in a new system. Plus, he shows up for the big regular season home games. We need to somehow get him to play the same consistently in the playoffs
FIRE SUND
I think David Lee is not getting enough mention in this LBJ/DW3/Bosh drama. Lee costs much less than Bosh’s overconfident @$$ and is just as efficient in my opinion. Lee and Boozer are both a bit cheaper (Lee much cheaper) than Boozer or Amare and should be sought after by Chicago or Cleveland.
Also, I will be pissed if any teams does a S&T for Deng. BOYCOTT CHICAGO’S LBJ/DW/BOSH plan
The greatest thing that could happen to this team is if the ASG can sell the Thrashers. With Joe back at the max, we are only at 68M or so. Really, we just need to go into the LT, add 2 players, and this team will be in the ECF and beyond
IT’S TIME TO SPEND MONEY. SIGN SHAQ JUST FOR THE PURPOSE OF FILLING THE STANDS
FIRE SUND
a village of idiots
July 4th, 2010
11:00 am
thank god that idiot woodrow is not coaching the team anymore. too bad he can’t take his blog friends with him
a village of idiots
July 4th, 2010
11:01 am
im not ken strickland whoever the hell that is but i do like to play wit puppets. dats why they call me master of puppets
Mookie
July 4th, 2010
11:04 am
My thinking is, we are a step closer to getting a championship type team that can be at the top year end and out! The experience we have got the last two years in the second round is very postive! Jamal’s playoff experience will be a postive one this year! No, Johnson is not worth Superstar money but, we cannot afford to let him walk that would set us back reguardless who we signed. Yes we need a Center that can rebound and play with a passion in the middle and get players to rethink about going to the hoop! But moving forward, we need Joe and the rest of the guy’s to keep on improving and let Sund do his job in getting us a veteran Center so we can take the next step!!
D21
July 4th, 2010
11:05 am
@Big Ray
They could also offering between other offer and Max, and it would still be higher.
Now, CLE for James is OK, MIA for Wade is OK, but PHX for Stoudemire shows it’s wrong.
PHX did not make the best offer, even if they can add the 6th year and use 10.5% increase, while NYK can only 8% increases and 5 years.
Because for PHX, Stoudemire is like Joe should be for ASG, a really good player, but not worth Full Max contract.
NYK cna
D21
July 4th, 2010
11:10 am
… NYK can pay him like that because they have to overpay to get him (if a player is feeling good in his current team, the team never should have to overpay to keep him).
But NYK can do it, they have lots of money even if they loose.
Maybe Joe and Stoudemire are all about money, I don’t know, but if Joe was smart he would not use all this 120M.
Like I said, even Arenas had reduced his first offer of WAS.
If he takes 120M in ATL, he’s all about money, and don’t care if ATL will win a title one day.
Chris E
July 4th, 2010
11:15 am
Ken & 404ATL, I commend you for adding basketball intelligence and love for the Hawks to the dialogue. Obviously there are a great deal of JJ, Al & Hawks haters in Atlanta of all places. JJ is definitely in the top 5 best 2 guards in the NBA. Anyone with any knowledge of basketball will admit to that. Is he worth the money? Probably not, but he would certainly not be the only NBA player making big bucks that’s not worth it. Is signing JJ the right move for the Hawks? Absolutely!!! Why is everyone so concerned about JJ when he gets to his last couple of years. I wonder what will be said about him if the Hawks bring a championship here in th next 2 years!!!
As for the talk with Horford, that’s just ludicrous. He is still developing and been playing out of position. He was an Allstar for crying out loud. There is nothing wrong with his game or effort. It seems to be progressing just fine. Josh has freakish potential and is finally realizing much of it. If he continues to work on his jumper & handle their is no ceiling to his game.
The missing link to the Hawks is a serviceable Big!!! With an athletic Big the Hawks are scary and can challenge for an NBA title. Especially with Jamal, Teague, ZaZa & Marvin coming off the bench. They won 53 with what they have and to me an offensive scheme that was limited and a flawed defensive scheme of way too much switching!!! With a Big man down low Josh & Al become even more effective because now they are no longer undersized and Josh can play more help defense which he does best. What PF would stop Al down low? Most Centers had a hard time doing it and with all this JJ talk I have seen him dominate Dwade & Kobe down low in the same way that they have dominated him. Dwade was even quoted as saying JJ was extremely hard to defend.
Point being, the Hawks are not that for off in my opinion and a Camby or Heywood to actually slow down the Howards & Bynums would make a huge difference!!! Lastly with JJ, Al & Josh playing close to 40 min all season undersized in many cases besides JJ what could they have possibly had left psychologically left as well as physically when the talent gets much better in each round.
If the ASG does what they plan to do, just watch and wait. They have produced a better product for the last 3 years so although I certainly don’t agree with some decisions they have made they can’t be all that bad!!!
O'Brien
July 4th, 2010
11:18 am
Paul Pierce has agreed to a contract “framework” to stay with the Celtics. Same thing with Dirk and the Mavs.
So even though JJ’s deal needs to work out some minor details, what is stopping him from agreeing to the framework of a deal? That way, Rick Sund can shift his focus elsewhere.
Ken Strickland
July 4th, 2010
11:19 am
PUPPET MASTER-you’re making the same crucial mistake Woodson made, and it got him fired. Wood ignored everything RSund said about being judged on improvement in the playoffs, and tried to set his own bar by winning as many REGULAR SEASON gms as possible, rather than preparing the players and the team for the playoffs.
I doubt if Sund will change his agenda for LDrew, although I expect he’ll be given more leeway since it’s his first yr. It’s funny seeing people who previously b!tched and moaned about the Hawks biggest problem being an ownership group that won’t spend the money to build a championship caliber team. Now, some of these same fools are making the ASG’s willingness to go all out and spend top dollar to resign the teams star player the bane of their existence on these blogs.
For a team with so little cap space, to resign JJ, and possibly a starting quality center, will be an amazing feat for an ownership group that some fans think is stupid and incompetent. While some teams are dumping talent in an attempt to pursue a fantasy, the Hawks are trying to add talent and experience. There certainly are more teams dumping talent to pursue the top FA’s, than there are top FA’s. Somebody is going to be left holding the bag, with very little talent and a lot of useless cap space.
Like I’ve said before, STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES.
D21
July 4th, 2010
11:21 am
Regarding Jamal, he brought 18ppg, but in 31min and with 1100 shots in 79games
Murray brought 12ppg in 24min, with 800 shots in 80games.
He took less shots and these are shots that other can take.
I am sorry, but it’s not enough to justify paying the same role from 2M to 10M.
You sign Murray for 2M, and use the difference (or what you can use because it’s not that simple to delete Crawford salary and replace it with trades) to improve other positions.
For the same money than Crawford alone, we could have Haywood+Murray, and would certainly be better.
Big Ray
July 4th, 2010
11:22 am
D21 ,
It’s all debatable in the end. I don’t like the size of the contract, and I agree that it’s pretty much all about money. When is it not? I mean, you get situations where guys will take a little less to stay home and to help keep costs down so that other stars can come and play. Garnett did that while he was in Minnesota, and Dirk Nowitzki just did it in Dallas. But that’s because I guarantee you Mark Cuban told Dirk that he was going to pay a big name free agent to come there or get somebody through sign and trade, and he’ll go all out to do it (look what he did to get Jason Kidd).
The ASG and Sund would never get Joe to do that, because they have no history of going all out (the only time it was done was to GET Joe himself, when Billy Knight was here). So Joe is going to be all about the money.
The thing about Joe and Amare is that both guys play an integral role for their team. Even though Nash is the guy who makes the team go, guys like Channing Frye and others feed off of the threat that Amare presents. If he’s not there guaranteeing a 20+ ppg threat, then will those other guys get open shots here and there? In some ways, it was the same with Joe and Atlanta. Defenses knew they couldn’t leave Joe unguarded. Now, Josh and Al could score on their own, but look how bad they looked at times in a series of ISO plays. They always did better when the ball was moving around. Otherwise, they had to score in transition or when Joe dumped the ball off.
Imagine if defenses were keyed on them all the time. What would happen?
Am I saying the contract is “right” ? Nope, I’m just saying that this is how teams kinda get trapped into paying what they do for guys. Orlando will always end up paying Dwight Howard max contracts. Even if he never gets them a Larry O’Brien trophy. This year, they didn’t even make the conference finals.
I think the max contracts for guys who typically don’t deserve them on personal merit alone are okay as long as the Owners and GM commit to paying for the proper pieces around them to make it all work. Otherwise, yeah, it looks like a huge waste of money. Ask Orlando, who is paying Rashard Lewis more than Atlanta was paying Joe…
NCBravesFan
July 4th, 2010
11:29 am
Ken: lotta truth in your post there. The Hawks are actually playing it smart by maxing out the one guy they could possibly hope to get in the FA bonanza, and then seeking to improve the roster elsewhere through trades.
And I reject the line of thinking that says if Joe signs for the max here it will be all about the money. Since the fans and media will ultimately judge that contract based on playoff performance — not $$ — he will find (even more) bitterness and acrimony if the Hawks do not win a championship or at least play for one.
If the Hawks make the finals or win a title in the next 2-3 years, nobody will be talking about how much bank JJ is making.
Big Ray
July 4th, 2010
11:30 am
D21
You say that, but are you guaranteed to get Haywood? If he wanted to be in Dallas, then he’d stay there.
Also, you can’t just look at Jamal’s contract vs Flip’s contract with just points. Flip was a bargain, I agree. But how do you really assign money value to the difference in shots and points? If Jamal scored 6 more ppg than Flip, but he’s not worth 8 million more, then can’t you assign the same logic to other players?
Consider this as well: Jamal is a much better trade chip than Flip ever was, or will ever be. We didn’t just acquire Jamal because he’s proven he can put up 18-20 ppg. We also acquired him because he was a much more valuable ASSET. Think of where that $9-$10 million we were paying was actually going before we got Jamal – it was going to Acie Law and Speedy “I can’t play more than 4 games a year” Claxton.
Would you rather have that back? We actually got lucky that Golden State and that insane Don Nelson decided they didn’t want Crawford anymore, or we would STILL be paying Law and the non-playing Claxton. Instead, we traded for a guy who could play, and play well. But that’s not all. He also has a contract that expires after next year, making him valuable to many teams who would consider trading something we could use for him.
Now think about Acie and Claxton’s trade value. The teams we traded them to got rid of them quickly, and got practically nothing in return, which is what we would have gotten if we tried trading them elsewhere. All in all, I think it was a great way to spend $10 million. Jamal helped us to 53 wins (something Flip couldn’t do) and got us a great trade asset that will bring us something useful if we move him.
Big Ray
July 4th, 2010
11:37 am
D21 ,
One more thing:
Murray brought 12ppg in 24min, with 800 shots in 80games.
He took less shots and these are shots that other can take.
Shots that WHO can take? Marvin and Bibby, perhaps? Those guys stunk last year, and they missed many of the shots they were taking. That was another reason we got Jamal. We needed a guy who would actually get some scoring done. Look how often he had to come into the game in place of Marvin or Bibby. Now put Flip in the same spot and see if he gives you 18 ppg. Nope, ain’t gonna happen, he’s NEVER put up that many points in a game, even when he played a starting role with other teams. Look at his career stats.
And if you needed him as a trade asset (say, to get a big man for your bench or starting lineup), what can you get for him? Nothing, because he only makes $2 million anyway. For $2 million, you get Randmo and Jason “Cheeseburger King” Collins. And you know this, LOL!
NCBravesFan ,
Excellent post. Not only would JJ find the pressure mounting, he could find himself traded if he proves to be a stumbling block.
Big Ray
July 4th, 2010
11:38 am
Ken Strickland
You said it all in the first paragraph of your latest post. But then, you probably already know who you’re talking to anyway….
nard34
July 4th, 2010
11:38 am
U bloggers are idiots.. Joe Johnson is worth every bit of the money we are talking economics, and the Atlanta Spirit LLC. understands he’s a main focal point On the Profit & Loss statement. If you are true Hawks fan do you remeber the day’s without Johnson when there would only be 5,000 fans @ the games & 15,000 Lakers,Cavaliers,Boston,Miami, fans etc. Without Joe there’s no more chemistry, sold out crowds, no T.I.,Young Dro, Young Jeezy, Ted Turner, Matt Ryan, Monica, Dupri, and all the rest of the big money people of Atlanta who wants to come to a home game and cheer on a great product. Even though we got mashed in the playoffs you are talking about the #3 team in the East with alot of young player’s maturing and developing still. I expect us to be right in the mix with Orlando for the #1 seed in the Eastern Conference!!! Enough of basketball now i’m on to Matt Ryan aka Young Pablo aka Tha Iceman aka Matty Ice.
D21
July 4th, 2010
11:38 am
@Big Ray
But the problem is what they say and what they do: Sund told some weeks ago they want to build a team like the winning DET some years ago, and certainly like SAS.
And now, they send 120M to Joe ?
If Joe is smart, he take less, especially if he believes them when they say they will spend, because less will always help to improve once we reach the limit of what they want to spend.
SAS kept Parker and Ginobili for less than what they could have got somewhere else, because the guy want to win.
Joe is not showing that is he takes 120M.
And he did not show something like Parker or Ginobili did.
They won titles without paying tax because they have a real Max player, Duncan, and the other know they are real good second option but don’t try to make the most money and not win anything, but try to make some good money and win.
Joe, please just show the same.
Maybe it would help him if we have a real Max like Duncan to accept it, but as he’s supposed to be the best player in ATL, he can ask for what he wants.
Conclusion, never leaves your best player as your best player if he’s not a true Full Max contract
Trade him before negotiations, or trade for a better guy ASAP.
ASG did not do it, and now they have to assume 120M to Joe, and continue to spend to improve the team, or it will be ugly.
Big Ray
July 4th, 2010
11:39 am
And I’m out….
Happy 4th, y’all. Be safe, don’t attach fireworks to your neighbor’s dog (but it’s okay to do it with cats), and don’t go DUI.
Peace out, my peeps….
D21
July 4th, 2010
11:40 am
And I will not ask ORL about Lewis, because :
- They already proved they would spend Tax even after taking this albatross Lewis contract
- We don’t have to compare with bad example to justify our own bad moves. It’s only with looking at good example that you make smart moves.
Big Ray
July 4th, 2010
11:44 am
D21 ,
I hear you, bruh.
If you ask me, the Hawks painted themselves into this corner by drafting very badly in 2005 and 2006. Draft Chris Paul or Deron Williams in 2005, and we’re not having this conversation about needing a leader and a true max contract player. We’d have the best backcourt in the league.
Draft Rudy Gay or Brandon Roy in 2006, and we’re not stuck overpaying one guy because he’s the only top 15 player we have any access to. Instead, we’d either have one heck of a scoring tandem (slide Joe to the 3 if Roy’s here, or start Gay over Marvin if we drafted him instead), or we’d be talking about who to trade Joe (or Roy or Gay) to, instead of offering a max contract to one guy who can’t take us anywhere by himself.
And we’d have that second star player.
But no, we put all eggs into one basket and come up with what? A max contract for Joe.
The ghost of Billy Knight is STILL killing us. Ugh….
Grandad
July 4th, 2010
11:44 am
Cliff:
Just to prove you are only a puppeteer & I am the Master.
Here is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma.
-or-
In other words a clue?
June 29th, 2010
4:43 pm
Big Ray @ 1:43 P.M.
Just change the names to protect the innocent.
You may want to mull this one over.
Check & Mate !!!
Chris E
July 4th, 2010
11:53 am
To add to your point Big Ray just think about how better the Hawks would be offensively with a fluid offense that moved the ball and found the open man. This would take good consistent PG play like in Boston. I believe Teague has that ability but not yet. He has to learn and has a great opportunity this year if played enough. LD will play him but I have to say that I have not given up on Bibby’s ablity to be effective. Yes he is slow but with a Bigman down low it would be much more difficult for the PG’s of the league to easliy breakdown our D. I don’t believe LD will do that much switching and with the pressure a ball moving offense would put on teams the pressure to keep up with the Hawks offensively would prevent teams from picking on Bibby. With all the talk surrounding Bibby he can still shoot at a high percentage when playing consistently, run the team the best & has great playoff experience!!! If we would be honest in our assessment of him, he did not play much down the stretch and that was more a coaching decision than his ineffectiveness. The best Hawks offensive at the end of games was always with JJ, Jamal & Bibby in at the same time because you had 3 bonafide scoring threats!!!
O'Brien
July 4th, 2010
11:54 am
D21,
I would have liked to see JJ resign with the Hawks for 6 years, $108 mil. And all he had to do was ask for a player option for the fifth year and 6th year. That way, if Hawks havent improved, he can opt out and go somewhere else.
However, as Ray pointed out, the Hawks have not shown any willingness to spend that extra money (this is the first time they have suggested luxury tax). And their suggests poor decision making.
In San Antonio, Parker and Ginobli were willing to take less money because Spurs had a history of winning, they are playing with one of the best PFs of all time, and playing for one of the best coaches of all time.
JJ doesnt have those kind of incentives.
Ray,
We have the ghost of BK, but Rick Sund didnt do too well last offseason either (except for the Jamal trade). $18 mil per year to Marvin, Bibby (3rd year guarantee) and ZaZa have limited our options this summer. And we still dont have Chills.
404atlhoops
July 4th, 2010
12:03 pm
D21,
I understand your concerns with the amount of the contract however, I seriously doubt Johnson would accept a 6yr/$90 mil deal espeically when Dirk who is 3 years older at 32 got a contract starting at 20 mil per for the next 4 years. If Joe is only going to get 15mil here, he’d be more inclined to take less at 11.5- 12mil so he can team up with lebron or wade else where. Rick Sund is just going to have to get creative in making moves to improve this Hawks team. I think the one think thing everyone on this blog can agree on is the Hawks do have chips to trade that are appealing to other teams. If the Wizards are seriously interested in Childress, I would love to see a sign and trade with them that somehow includes the Hawks recieving JaVale McGee.
Ken Strickland
July 4th, 2010
12:04 pm
If, or when, JJ signs the contract offer, the Hawks will have options. Hopefully, this will alleviate some of the concerns some of you seem to be having over his max contract, at least for those with an actual IQ and no personal agenda.
1-if he’s still productive after 4yrs, and they don’t want to keep him, they can trade him and eliminate paying the last 2yrs of his contract. That means we would have paid him $73.1M over 4yrs, which averages out to $18.3M per yr. That means we had him for his most productive yrs and paid him only $4.2M per yr more than we paid him last yr($14.9M).
2-if he’s still productive and we want to keep him, we can trade his very high, and what would be very attractive, expiring contract. That gives us 5 instead of 4yrs of excellent production and we would have paid him $95.5M over that period, which is only $5.5M more than the $90M 5yr contract some of you say he should get. And that $5.5M would be spread over 5yrs.
The average annual salary for 5yrs would be $19.1M, which would be $4.1M more than we paid him last yr. Please keep in mind I didn’t factor in the 10% annual increases he would also get if we offered and he accepted a $90M 5yr contract. So, based on what we paid him last yr, a max contract doesn’t look too bad, does it? Well, except for those who are too stupid to pour water out of a boot with a spout and the words TURN UP on it.
Simpdawg
July 4th, 2010
12:10 pm
Resigning Joe to a max contract and keeping the same core players from last season, will not make the Hawks contenders. They will have to make improvements to their roster, because right now the Hawks bigs are too small to compete day in and day out, with some of the other Eastern Conference team’s bigs, and Shaq is not the answer.
Chris E
July 4th, 2010
12:12 pm
Ken that looks good to me. McGee would not be bad at all to plug in the middle. Because of our athleticism at each position we don’t need a stud down low. We just need a presence!!!
Plus I believe if we keep Marvin he would be much better to us coming off the bench>
Reid Adair
July 4th, 2010
12:13 pm
Hopefully Joe Johnson is still waiting for an opportunity to move on with one of the top free agents from this group. I certainly keep my fingers crossed that some team taking Amare Stoudemire or Chris Bosh decides to add Johnson to the mix.
Johnson needs to be gone.
Southern Hawk
July 4th, 2010
12:20 pm
The best possible situation for the Hawks is as follows:
After putting the max contract on the table for J.J., he decides to pull a Dirk and sign for less. With a 6-year option with the Bird rule, he could still make more money out of his prime (33-34), than he normally would. He could sign like a 110 m contract over 6 years, and still come out with more money and save the team roughy 20m. This could be spent up upping Al horfords contract in a year, or on other FAs. Also doing this would probably give him some cred with the ATL fans.
Probably not going to happen, but one can hope.
Chris E
July 4th, 2010
12:22 pm
I keep my fingers crossed that people like Reid Adair don’t have an influence on the decisions made. Thank God, thats the case.
Reid Adair and others like you, stop hating and consider being a fan for another team. We definitely don’t need the negative energy!!!
JIMMYMACK
July 4th, 2010
12:22 pm
WHAT ABOUT THE ASSISTANT COACHES??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
mike
July 4th, 2010
12:24 pm
decent, honorable man from dallas dirt cut his own salary 16 mil. to get his maveric better in cap signing people. c,mon jj be the man you not deserve max., cut you salary volunterely like dirt, you still going to get more then enough to man and his family and relatives for life, but hawks will be much better. are you care about this team, they got you here from phoniex where you been 4 best player on the team and made you all star. be like dirt.
Ken Strickland
July 4th, 2010
12:26 pm
I still like DJ MBenga, who’s very quick, fast and athletic for a 7 footer. I believe his problem is he’s on a Laker team that’s half court oriented and doesn’t run much. Their OFF is really geared to having Bigs that are good OFF players, which he isn’t at this point. He’s a good rebounder and shot blocker, and with his speed, quickness and athleticism, his transition DEF would be excellent.
He and Zaza would make an excellent OFF/DEF tag team duo. What we needed most last yr is what he does best, and that’s rebounding and DEF(shot blocking).
O'Brien
July 4th, 2010
12:38 pm
Ken,
I think DJ MBenga or Johan Petro is worth a look. But only as a last resort if we strike out in free agency and trades.
The 2 trade proposals I have seen that I like, are:
1) Jamal and piece to Portland for Pryzbilla and Rudy Fernandez
2) Marvin and Mo to Golden State for Biedrins.
Josh for Biedrins has been suggested too (allowing us to move Al to PF), but I would give Josh one year in Drew’s system to see how he looks.
Marvin probably deserves a chance in Drew’s system too, but I think there are cheaper options at SF, or we can just bring Chills back to replace him.
Ken Strickland
July 4th, 2010
12:40 pm
SOUTHERN HAWK-your post gave me an idea. Do you suppose JJ would consider doing the Michael Jordan and take a reduced contact to allow the Hawks the flexibility to resign JChildress and a starting quality center? If he even remotely considered doing that to team up with CBosh and/or AStaudemire with the Knicks, he’d certainly be better off doing it with the Hawks, especially if we can resign Chills and a quality FA center.
I’d salivate at the thought of having a starting lineup of PG-JTeague, SG-JJohnson, SF-JChildress, PF-JSmith & C-AHorford, and a bench of MWilliams, ZPachulia, MEvans, JaCrawford, JoCrawford, MBibby & FA center ?.
atl fan
July 4th, 2010
12:45 pm
I dont understand some of yall because joe out did wade 2yrs ago when we played the heat in the playoffs and al is a all-star the hawks need to ge a deffensive center and they will be alright this team won 53 games ask the bucks heat bobcats bulls and celtics did they do the same by the way those r all playoff teams.and paul pierce is making the same kind of money at the age of 34 and I dont see celtics fans gripping
marcus
July 4th, 2010
12:46 pm
hawks back to their old tricks! why sign the selfish a** bum?
JeJe
July 4th, 2010
12:48 pm
“However, as Ray pointed out, the Hawks have not shown any willingness to spend that extra money (this is the first time they have suggested luxury tax). And their suggests poor decision making.”
The owners mentioned going into the LT last year if Sund is serious about winning — yet every move made has been cost-cutting.
AND STOP IT WITH THE MBENGA TALK. THE GUY SUCKS. HE CAN’T PLAY. HE’S NOT ANY BETTER THAN THE GARBAGE SUND DRAFTS (PETRO, SENE, SWIFT)
MY GOD
ballhawg3411
July 4th, 2010
12:48 pm
Guys,
We’ll stuck with A overpaid plain Joe. Deal with it!
Ken Strickland
July 4th, 2010
12:52 pm
OBRIEN-I’m with you all the way on the Josh and Marvin issue. Now that we have JoCrawford, even though he’s a rookie, I’d trade JaCrawford. I doubt seriously if we’ll resign him next yr, with JJ’s max contract and Horford’s contract coming up, so we should get something for him this yr and open up some extended mins and opportunities for JoCrawford.
Everyone seems focused on wanting to trade Josh, Marvin, Horford or JJ that no has mentioned focusing on MBibby as a trade option. I’d love to trade him and sign a vet PG that can do more than hang out above the ark shooting 3’s.
Tmac
July 4th, 2010
12:56 pm
I guess the Hawks are in a catch 22 cause if you don’t sign JJ they are not going to sign a big time free agent to come to Atlanta… So you got to do it, i guess.
Only thing I would do a little different is not make it 6 years. That handicaps your team a bit if the skills diminish.
One thing i would do is DUMP Marvin Williams. He blows and his 8 million $$ (approx) could be better spent on anyone else who can actually shoot.
404atlhoops
July 4th, 2010
12:59 pm
KEN,
When did Jordan take less for the betterment of the Bulls? He was always grossly underpaid simply because players’ salaries were not as lucrative as they are today. I know Jordan’s last year with the Bulls he was making 33 million. Maybe I’m too young to remeber.
luangtom
July 4th, 2010
1:01 pm
I keep forgetting, it is just a game. Yet, millions of dollars get spent on a few to entertain us while thousands in the Metro make minimum-wage. Something does not compute……..
darrell starks
July 4th, 2010
1:02 pm
Here is the latest rumor joe will not sign with the hawks until lebron sign with a team.
1.If lebron sign with the knicks then joe will sign up with knick.
lebron, joe, amar’e
2.If lebron sign with chicago then joe sign with chicago.
rose, joe, lebron, noah
3. now if lebron sign with any other team then joe sign with the hawks.
so everything depend on where lebron sign when it come 2 joe.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!
Ken Strickland
July 4th, 2010
1:03 pm
JEJE-I’ll bet every NBA GM and HC thought just like you about Big Ben Wallace and CBillups, before GM Joe Dumars rescued them from the end of their respective benches and turned them into All Stars by teaming them up with a HC who had an OFF and DEF system that took advantage of their skills.
Remember, opinions are like A holes, we all have one.
ryan
July 4th, 2010
1:04 pm
Wants JJ signs there is going to be a trade one of the two Josh’s will be gone and think its Childress because his stock is rising we could get a M. Ellis or Carmello Anthony .
Ken Strickland
July 4th, 2010
1:10 pm
404ATLANTAHOOPS-Jordan took less salary to add more veteran talent to the roster. After they got enough tenure to qualify under the LBird rule, the Bulls we able to pay MJ what he gave up.
ATL-Dolfan
July 4th, 2010
1:11 pm
When he signs, it will effectively be the death blow for the Hawks for a while. It will be a waste, its like getting paid like a CEO when you are mid level manager! Good if you can get it even though you may not be particularly liked….
I want to know why the Hawks weren’t up there making a presentation to D-Wade? I mean the Clippers made a pitch to LeBron? Its worth the try and at least will get you some leverage with JJ and some good feelings from your fans. They may think you gave a ( you know what ) about the team..
Just my two cents.
hop
July 4th, 2010
1:19 pm
who cares this will do nothing to bring a title to atlanta. the hawks will still lack a big man in the middle.
lebron will be in miami causing the hawks to fall further down the line.
this current ownership have no clue and will eventually sell this club soon!
Jerry West
July 4th, 2010
1:26 pm
Ken,
What vet players did the Bulls add by MJ taking less? I always thought he had just gotten locked into a long term deal when revenues were smaller, and when the contract was up, he got the 30 mil deals. The money he was making before those deals was pretty much what star players were getting and may have been tops in the league at the time (pre rookie cap rookie deals excluded).
darrell starks
July 4th, 2010
1:28 pm
If joe leaves the hawks will not make the playoffs next year, unless ASG make some move.
TEAGUE, JAMAL, CHILL, JOSH, HORFORD
will not get it done.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!
O'Brien
July 4th, 2010
1:53 pm
Ken,
The problem with Bibby, is he has very little trade value. Rick Sund gave him a 3 year guaranteed deal last offseason, so Bibby still has 2 years, $12 mil left.
If we had signed him for 2 years instead of 3, then he would have been an expiring contract this offseason, and would have had more value.
BigTimeTechFan
July 4th, 2010
1:55 pm
What teams have a better 4 then:
J Johnson, A hortford, J Smith, J Crawford
Hawks have solid 4 to win it all, just need right role players and a system that utlilizes the 4 talents right.
Some teams have 1 main guy better then any Hwk, with 1 equal to say J osh Smith. Cleveland and Orland
Cetlics have 4, Pierce, Rondo, Garnett, Allen but they are all way older but Rondo
Hawks will be ok with better coach, Finals if L Drew is that coach.
Hawks talent was not an issue last year, 100% coaching. Woodson gone so things should be a lot better next year.
Iceman
July 4th, 2010
2:12 pm
Atlanta Spirit is a bunch of idiots!!!!
Bubba G
July 4th, 2010
2:35 pm
Big Time Tech Fan, umm lets see how about the Lakers. Kobe, Gasol, Bynum, Artest.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 4th, 2010
2:49 pm
“I want to know why the Hawks weren’t up there making a presentation to D-Wade? I mean the Clippers made a pitch to LeBron?”
Clippers have the cap space to sign LeBron. Hawks don’t have the cap space to sign any max player regardless of whether or not Joe stays. The only way the Hawks can get one of the marquee free agents is via sign-and-trade, and it is a very risky move to do that because if they try and fail to sign-and-trade for someone AND Joe leaves, they are left with nothing.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 4th, 2010
2:51 pm
Not to mention, a sign-and-trade for any player requires that their current team agrees. Teams with cap space can sign players regardless of what their original teams want.
JeJe
July 4th, 2010
2:54 pm
Joe to Hawks is done according to Sekou
chuckw/deadjournalist
July 4th, 2010
2:59 pm
Sekou just reported JJ to ATL is done
ryan
July 4th, 2010
3:02 pm
I like Shaq but his knees about gone i hope we go after Tyson Chandler then there is Rip Hamilton and Monte Ellis who we get for Josh Childress.
ryan
July 4th, 2010
3:20 pm
I think New York is paying to much for Stoudemire he has a bad knee and he surgery on his eye the Knicks are getting left overs Wade is staying Miami. I still think LeBron stays in Cleveland but Chicago is tempting.
Melvin
July 4th, 2010
3:23 pm
Welcome back Joe…..
A Robust Cup of Joe – Huffington Post (blog) | Free NBA Videos
July 4th, 2010
3:32 pm
[...] school gym in Santa Monica to watch one of my clients work out for a couple of NBA teams. …Atlanta Hawks: Still on track with JJAtlanta Journal Constitution (blog)Sources: Johnson likes Knicks, BullsESPNFree agency gone [...]
The Puppet Master
July 4th, 2010
3:40 pm
Sekou Smith via Twitter
JJ signs!
The Puppet Master
July 4th, 2010
3:42 pm
Now what about a Real bonafied “starting caliber center?
Candler Willis
July 4th, 2010
3:46 pm
Why dont they use that moeny fr amari stadomire.then u ove everyone down one spot..
Center-Amari Stadomire
Power Forward-Al Horford
Small Forward-josh Smith
Shooting Guard-Jamal Crawford
Point Guard-Jeff Teague
Thats the best Case we can get as hawks fans..
Hoops
July 4th, 2010
3:49 pm
(A message to Joe Johnson)
Welcome home Joe! Now, sell the Hawks fans on the fact that you are ready to win them a championship. Let the Hawks fans know that you are truly sorry for your comments last spring and you want things to be right between you and them! Joe, change the chemistry between you and the Hawks fans by humbling yourself. I promise you that they will welcome you back with open arms and will support the Hawks like a family!!! We all want the same things! Let’s do it together!!!
Now Hawks, make a trade for a 5 man that can play!!!
JeJe
July 4th, 2010
3:55 pm
WHY DO PEOPLE WANT JOSH SMITH AT SF?
DUMBEST POSSIBLE IDEA EVER.
STOP THIS RETARDED IDEA. JOSH SMITH IS NOT AN SF. HAVE U MORONS SEEN HIM PLAY?
NO, OBVIOUSLY NOT
Hawks Stink
July 4th, 2010
4:27 pm
The Hawks organization is the worst in the NBA.
A Robust Cup of Joe – Huffington Post (blog) | Basketball Video Zone
July 4th, 2010
5:41 pm
[...] school gym in Santa Monica to watch one of my clients work out for a couple of NBA teams. …Atlanta Hawks: Still on track with JJAtlanta Journal Constitution (blog)Sources: Johnson likes Knicks, BullsESPNFree agency gone [...]
Johnson to stay with Hawks – AFP | Free NBA Videos
July 4th, 2010
5:50 pm
[...] Sunday. …Agent: Johnson to stay in AtlantaESPNJohnson stays in AtlantaThe Associated PressAtlanta Hawks: Still on track with JJAtlanta Journal Constitution (blog)SI.com -msnbc.com -National Postall 435 news [...]
Johnson to stay with Hawks – AFP | Free NBA Videos
July 4th, 2010
5:50 pm
[...] Sunday. …Agent: Johnson to stay in AtlantaESPNJohnson stays in AtlantaThe Associated PressAtlanta Hawks: Still on track with JJAtlanta Journal Constitution (blog)SI.com -msnbc.com -National Postall 435 news [...]
Johnson to stay with Hawks – AFP « My NBA Video
July 4th, 2010
6:22 pm
[...] …Johnson stays in AtlantaThe Associated PressAgent: Johnson to stay in AtlantaESPN (blog)Atlanta Hawks: Still on track with JJAtlanta Journal Constitution (blog)SI.com -msnbc.com -National Postall 456 news [...]
Guard Joe Johnson agrees to maximum contract to remain with Atlanta Hawks | NBA – Seattle Times « My NBA Video
July 5th, 2010
12:25 am
[...] Agent SaysBloombergJohnson stays in AtlantaThe Associated PressYahoo! Sports -SI.com -Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog)all 506 news [...]
Guard Joe Johnson agrees to maximum contract to remain with Atlanta Hawks | NBA – Seattle Times | Free NBA Videos
July 5th, 2010
12:35 am
[...] Agent SaysBloombergJohnson stays in AtlantaThe Associated PressYahoo! Sports -SI.com -Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog)all 510 news [...]
Guard Joe Johnson agrees to maximum contract to remain with Atlanta Hawks | NBA – Seattle Times | Basketball Video Zone
July 5th, 2010
12:47 am
[...] Agent SaysBloombergJohnson stays in AtlantaThe Associated PressYahoo! Sports -SI.com -Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog)all 512 news [...]
juli
July 7th, 2010
3:43 pm
the funny think is that if we need to be a champion team,than we have to sign JJ,but he neeed some player oround.Every team is doing that.Trade this Zaza.I am tired waiting from him.Every year the same.Get somebody in the rebound close to Harford.The problem is we dont have player in the paint.Take Zaza and bring Camby.