Atlanta Hawks: Al Horford’s summer
Al, standing back right, with the winning All-Star squad. (www.singaporesports.sg)
The first part of Al Horford’s summer was personal. Now he will get down to the business of improving his game and maybe later think about a contract extension with the Hawks.
First, the personal: Al was scheduled to return to Atlanta yesterday after participating in Basketball Without Borders in Singapore last week. Al went to Mexico as part of the program last season but made his first-ever trip to Asia. Joining him in Singapore were Trevor Ariza, Francisco Garcia (Go Cards), Corey Brewer and Taj Gibson.
“It’s been a great experience for me so far,” Al said from Singapore. “I think we have made the most of it here, helping the kids and a doing a lot of activities with the NBA. I’ve had a blast. The Singapore people are excited about basketball here. The campers have been great. They are from all over Asia and some from the Middle East.”
The NBA guys’ activities included hosting a Special Olympics basketball clinic, a trip to Jamiyah’s Children’s Home for orphans and underprivileged children and and an NBA FIT clinic for high school students. Al also has a basketball camp scheduled this week at Oglethorpe University.
After taking a break for BWB Asia, it’s back to business for AL. He’s headed back to the gym for workouts this week. When I told him how some of my blog people seem to be very, very concerned about what guys are doing over the summer, Al laughed before laying out his plan:
“There are a couple things I will be working on, and I’ve already started a little bit. Obviously [last summer] I developed a lot more with the pick-and-pop as far as pick-and-rolling and shooting mid-range. Now I’m going to work on putting the ball on the floor more and strengthening my counter moves in post. Those are two things I will really be focused on.”
He said he hasn’t focused on his contract situation yet. Now that J.J. is locked up, Al might be next in line to get big money from the Hawks.
He’s in the fourth year of his rookie-scale contract so he’s eligible for a five-year extension to take his deal through 2015-16. The contract can start at the league maximum, which for Al is going to be something like $13 million, with maximum raises of 10.5 percent each season. If he doesn’t accept an extension, he would become a restricted free agent next summer if the Hawks extended a qualifying offer, which they obviously would.
Would Al be open to an extension?
“I’m not sure, yet,” he said. “This is a summer for me to get better and focus on next season. I don’t know what their approach is going to be on that. I know that as a team, [the focus is] to get Joe Johnson back.”
J.J. is back now. The Hawks still plan to add more pieces, including a center. Al reiterated his stance that he prefers to play power forward but isn’t making any demands about switching positions.
“I’m fine with [center] but my natural position is obviously the four,” he said.
With that said, there is one thing I’ve wondered about amid all this focus on getting a center. See if you feel me on this one.
I think the Dwight effect from the playoffs has caused a lot of people to undervalue Al as a center. I’m not saying the Hawks couldn’t use more size–even Al has agreed with that–I’m just saying you can make a case that a perimeter defender and bona fide point guard are more pressing concerns for this team. That’s especially true since Al presumably will be featured in offensive and defensive schemes that better utilize his talents and hide his lack of ideal bulk for center.
I know the Hawks hope Teague can hold down point guard while helping with the perimeter D. But if forced to choose, which might be what happens to the Hawks, would you rather acquire a center that can displace Al as a starter or a point guard you are sure can run L.D.’s revolutionary new offense so J.J. doesn’t have the ball so much? Is getting a starting center more important than finding a defensive perimeter guy who can upgrade a group that still could have Jamal and Bibby playing heavy minutes?
I’m not certain of the answers but just wanted to throw that out there. They are the kind of questions the Hawks will ponder now that J.J.’s deal is done. Lots of you have been asking about potential trades and Atlanta’s interest in other free agents, and I get that. It’s fun to imagine the possibilities. However, Atlanta’s focus has been squarely on J.J. so I’m afraid there hasn’t been much to talk about so far.
Also remember it’s still very, very early in the process, particularly for a team like the Hawks. They might have to wait until the initial craziness of the market subsides before swooping in for guys who overestimated their value. My guess is that’s going to happen relatively soon once teams that missed out on LeBron and Co. regain their fiscal sanity.
–Thanks to all my blog people for the clicks and comments during this J.J. saga. I appreciate your interest in what I have to say and admire your passion for your team. The opposite of love isn’t hate, it’s indifference, and no one can ever accuse my blog people of being indifferent about their Hawks. I’m on the clock from now through the first four days of Summer League and I will do my best to keep the conversation going until I head off for some me time.
MC
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253 comments Add your comment
bigdave
July 4th, 2010
11:04 pm
Al is a center.
work going over your right shoulder.. and on your inside pivot face up and go..
you’ll be aight Al..
bigdave
July 4th, 2010
11:12 pm
“Is getting a starting center more important than finding a defensive perimeter guy who can upgrade a group that still could have Jamal and Bibby playing heavy minutes?”
im pulling for Teague.. but clearly if there is a ideal floor general out there available, get him.
Al can whole his own but struggles against 2 guys.. Dwight and the guy id like to bring in to offset him Shaq.
does Shaq want to add another alias? ” The Big Bird”
bigdave
July 4th, 2010
11:15 pm
*hold his own…
hehe.. V.S.O.P.
LEA
July 4th, 2010
11:17 pm
his natural position is the 4, but HE IS NOT a better PF than Josh Smith. when he realizes that he will feel a lot better about himself..
STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)
July 4th, 2010
11:22 pm
How do u know that LEA?
B.J.
July 4th, 2010
11:23 pm
Big AL is the man to build around and he is a better PF than Josh zhe went to the all star game over smooth
LEA
July 4th, 2010
11:25 pm
because he’s not, that’s how I know. he’s not good enough to move Smoove from his starting PF position, so he better get over it, and deal with it..
Reid Adair
July 4th, 2010
11:25 pm
I’m not the least bit worried about Al Horford. I’m sure he is doing what it takes over the summer to be ready for the season. I am very impressed with his work helping kids all over the world.
B.J.
July 4th, 2010
11:29 pm
Big Al holds his own with centers so when he moves to the 4 he going to kill he can hit that 15 foot jumper (unlike josh) get u 10 rebounds and is a leader you never question his heart or toughness no disrespect to smooth but give me Al all day long
doc
July 4th, 2010
11:41 pm
Well truth I know u don’t care what al h says but dId u see that written word on perimeter dfender and point guard. Gee do u remember hearing that somewhere else?
Dalastdon2
July 4th, 2010
11:42 pm
Hey folks what’s the summer league roster for our hawks looking like?
I can’t wait to see this offense Coach Drew is hookin’ up.
Raybud
July 4th, 2010
11:43 pm
@BJ…don’t forget that Smoove was runner up for defensive player of the year behind Howard. There were so many people who said he got robbed for a spot in the All Star Game. For those that don’t know, he is the energy and the emotion of the team, not JJ, nor Horford. No, i’m not doubting there game as players, but Smith is the second coming of the human highlight.
Melvin
July 4th, 2010
11:43 pm
“would you rather acquire a center that can displace Al as a starter or a point guard you are sure can run L.D.’s revolutionary new offense”
I say we spilt the difference. Bring in a Big that could come off the bench and contribute 20 mins a night at Center (one of the Oneal’s) and a 3rd PG like Duhon that could spell Teague in case he’s not up to speed quick enough…
True Atlanta Fan
July 4th, 2010
11:51 pm
MC,
If there is one guy I would want the hawks to lock up for the long run it would be Horford. Im afraid this JJ deal is definitely going to make that a bit hard. How much cap room do we have left for other players after this deal?
Also from all his interviews Al seems really professional and attitude free but you think he would opt if he doesn’t get what he wants (a big man center)? I don’t expect LD’s plan to be a walk in the park right off the bat and am interested to see how people like Al would react especially if we dont fork up the money for someone that could handle Dwight.
B.J.
July 4th, 2010
11:51 pm
Raybud Dont forget how josh didnt get back across the court nemrous times in the orlando playoff seris he was to busy being upset and arguing with refs or the fact that he went from a 70% ft shooter to around 61 in that seris and how he never closed out to the three point line, i like josh i reallly do but his head isnt always in the game and Al earned that all star spot so if u ask me illl take heart and being tough over come n go talent
Rod
July 4th, 2010
11:52 pm
Horford needs to player the forward position and we need to get a true center.
Raybud
July 4th, 2010
11:53 pm
@BJ if that is the case, the all star game would be filled with bench players…lol i agree with the points you made, but i think that is something you can blame on woodson….i don’t know how larry drew will pan out, but smith needs a no nonsense coach. Once his game fully develops, he is definitely a 20/10 player
Steve
July 4th, 2010
11:58 pm
Looks like Jamal and Evans and possibly Bibby are gone next year to re-sign Horford. Jamal would be 31/32, so it’s probably best – but he is one of my favorite Hawks. Unless the Hawks get a legit center and trade Josh – maybe Josh for Al Jefferson?
Najeh Davenpoop
July 4th, 2010
11:59 pm
I agree that people undervalue Al as a center because of his struggles against Dwight Howard. I’m with bigdave in that Horford really only struggles against Howard and Shaq. (I’d probably throw Yao in there as well.) He has proven he can ball with every other center in the league. But the fact is, it’s really hard to see Horford ever succeeding against Howard and Shaq at center, whereas it’s a lot easier to see Teague step up and become the point guard who can run this team. Not to mention, simply by replacing Bibby, Teague instantly improves the perimeter defense by default.
At some point, if the Hawks want to advance in the playoffs, the Hawks are going to have to bring in a true 5 to guard these true centers of the league, so they might as well do it now. I think the perimeter defense and point guard issue will mostly resolve itself by Teague developing.
Jody
July 5th, 2010
12:03 am
Getting a center is the most important thing. Let’s not forget the effect Dwight’s mere prescense had against the Hawks or the how the size of the Cavaliers the year before proved too much for the Hawks to handle. Also, I wouldn’t be quick to draw the conclusion that Smoove is a better 4 than Al. Al knows that if he gets the opportunity to play is natural position, his numbers and his effect on the game (particularly the paint) will continue him to improve making him an all-star once again next year. As much as I love Josh, he’s a “converted 4″ not a natural 4 as he came into the league playing the 3. His athletic ability allows him to be a factor right now, but when that starts to fade, how effective of a 4 will he be?
B.J.
July 5th, 2010
12:04 am
@raybud if u going off that then al n josh should have went over joe lol….but i agreee josh can be a 20/10 guy and maybe woodson was part of the problem but the point is Al had the same coach and never had those issues and he dosnt have half the athletic skills josh does,but he has heart and he dosnt give up when/if josh gets that he’ll be unstopable but right now its got to be Al
J from the A
July 5th, 2010
12:05 am
“But if forced to choose, which might be what happens to the Hawks, would you rather acquire a center that can displace Al as a starter or a point guard you are sure can run L.D.’s revolutionary new offense so J.J. doesn’t have the ball so much?”
But the choices are actually many more than simply a choice between these two options. I think many of us are calling for more depth, particularly at the 5 spot. This means, first, we find a big man that would be capable of starting, but who would also not mind coming off the bench (with the idea that he would be coming off the bench, not displacing any starters). Then, we need to ask ourselves what last piece is more important. Another PG? Or another SF? It seems like that the opinion that is shared by yourself and Al is that we should make another PG a priority. Many of the bloggers are calling for a replacement for Williams.
Of course, there are probably much more creative ways to build this team into a champion. Any creative ideas out there that don’t include the impossible?
And then there is the wildcard: What’s up with Childress. I don’t expect him to be in a Hawks uniform, but do the Hawks still hold enough leverage to force a sign and trade or does the JJ deal really rob the Hawks from what little leverage they might have had?
Jody
July 5th, 2010
12:08 am
This whole notion of finding a back-up center who can play 15 to 20 minutes a game is rather silly to me. Are you going to accept being undersized for the other 28 minutes of the game? The contending teams don’t do that.
Nite Owl
July 5th, 2010
12:16 am
Good point, Jody, you kind of beat me to it.
Josh, Al, and JJ are your workhorses on offense. They’re always going to play big minutes because of what they bring to the table.
So if you slide Al over to the 4 full-time, you either reduce Smoove’s minutes or have him play a lot of 3. Then you’ve only got two shooters on the floor, at the 1 and the 2.
Al’s going to have to keep playing center for us to be successful, as long as Josh is around.
Also, great points about Al being able to outplay pretty much ever center other than Dwight. I still go back to Hubie Brown’s comments in the Orlando series about how the X’s and O’s were so bad. We had caught up to Boston, and we were catching up to Cleveland. Only Orlando was killing us, and I think we have the talent to hang with them, if we get coached up.
I think we had to work too hard to out-talent people, but if you add good coaching to that, we can take it to the next level.
True Atlanta Fan
July 5th, 2010
12:24 am
You think we can swindle Golden State for Monta Ellis? You think they would take Marvin/Childress and Bibby for him?
J from the A
July 5th, 2010
12:25 am
Al is an All star at … you guessed it! … the center position.
It’s not about running small or running big. It is about running the best line up for your system (or vice versa). Then having the appropriate tools in your repertoire that allow you to adjust strategies, rotations, etc. as needed. Having a genuine, defensive big in your back pocket is simply one of those tools that many think the Hawks need to have in their repertoire.
Atlanta Hawks: Al Horford’s summer – Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) « My NBA Video
July 5th, 2010
12:25 am
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Al Hortford is 6 ft 8
July 5th, 2010
12:26 am
big Al, is only 6ft 8..he is a natural 4..at Fla he played the 4..move smooth to the 3 and get a damn center..big al will leave if we do not….Dont trade Marvin…Big mistake if we do…Woody’s iso joe/iso jamal system and refusal to play his bench held back or ruined a lot of solid players in Atl, Diaw,Williams,Salim,Morris,Law, and even Solo….Teauge was next…..We need a 6 ft 10 or taller guy he can play o and d….we will never win until we get a center….
J from the A
July 5th, 2010
12:27 am
And why is anyone talking about how good Josh Smith will be at position X when he begins to fade? We might as well start asking if Teague will be able to lead us once he begins to fade?
Barring injury, Smith’s stock should be on the rise for several more years …
Section 303
July 5th, 2010
12:31 am
I do not understand the people who have been bashing Al. I think I must be watching a different Al Horford than they are. Yes, he is not a true center, but I think he is better than 85% of the centers out there. People forget there are not many good big men around. Not many teams have a center that they couldn’t live without. I think the Hawks should focus on finding a decent backup for Al (not going to be easy). Possibly someone who could eat up some minutes and put Al at the four for parts of each game.
If the result of that is Josh at the 3, though, I want no part of it. Josh Smith at the 3 should never happen, unless a rash of injuries or foul trouble happens.
Anyways, I think the PG position is more important right now. Very doubtful a decent big man shows up on the radar. Much more likely to find a better PG.
I want to believe that Teague will be able to get the job done this year…just not sure. He has the potential. He is a good athlete and a good defender. Not sure about his ability to run the show. Will be interesting to watch him develope in Summer League and exhibition games. But, if the Hawks were smart, they might want to keep their eyes open for a decent PG to bring in here.
And, I know Bibby is here, but I see him more useful as a shooter…he can run the offense, but his D is just so bad…have to have an upgrade at PG…some insurance in case Teague does not panout, at least.
Section 303
July 5th, 2010
12:33 am
True Atlanta Fan, I hope so…I would love to see Ellis come to town. That guy gives 100% every night. Would be a great add.
J from the A
July 5th, 2010
12:39 am
Also, the position a player played in high school does not determine what his “natural” NBA position will be. Primarily a player’s skill set, and then, size, determines his “natural” NBA position.
Great interior defense? Check
Rebounding ability? Check
Explosiveness around the rim? Check
Ball handling? Not so much.
Outside shot? NOOOOOOOO! Don’t shoot even think about taking that shot!
Perimeter Defense? OK, but not nearly as consistent as interior defense.
Passing? Actually pretty decent.
Does that sound more like a PF or SF? hmmmm …
Najeh Davenpoop
July 5th, 2010
12:45 am
“This whole notion of finding a back-up center who can play 15 to 20 minutes a game is rather silly to me. Are you going to accept being undersized for the other 28 minutes of the game?”
Who said anything about 15-20 minutes per game?
Between the PF and C positions, you have 48+48 = 96 minutes to fill. Assuming Josh and Al play 35 minutes a piece, you’re left with 26 minutes at those positions that still need to be filled. If you bring in a really quality backup for Al at the 5 who can play those 26 minutes, you’re pretty much set. Depending on the matchup, the minutes can always be split differently, with this backup getting more minutes and Josh and Al playing correspondingly less.
It would be a similar situation to what the Hawks currently have in the backcourt. Between the PG and SG positions, you have 96 minutes. Bibby, Jamal, and Joe played a combined 97 minutes per game this year (the total exceeds 96 because Joe spent some time at the 3 when the Hawks went small). Bibby played 27, Crawford 31, and Joe 38. A similar time split between Horford, Smoove, and whatever “true center” the Hawks acquire to back up Al would be more or less what to expect.
HawkKingBibby
July 5th, 2010
12:45 am
SHAQ SHAQ SHAQ SHAQ SHAQ SHAQ SHAQ SHAQ SHAQ SHAQ SHAQ SHAQ SHAQ SHAQ SHAQ. This is what those guys Horfords in that picture above with said when Al asked them who could help the Hawks.
True Atlanta Fan
July 5th, 2010
12:55 am
Haha “Big Bird” Nice bigdave. Not gonna lie would love to see “O’Neal” on a Hawks jersey, and you know he would play Dwight EXTRA hard cuz Shaq hates him.
B.J.
July 5th, 2010
12:58 am
shaq woulb be kool and this sound crazy but i wish the hawks could get kendrick perkins from boston it will never happen but thats the perfect 5 for this team he gives D.howard major issues
Gainesville#1
July 5th, 2010
12:59 am
Has there been a roomer about shaq coming here? I hate to say is but I think our best bet is to bring back collins. There are no good centers out there and the few minutes he got against howard in the playoffs, he was bangin pretty good plus he already knows the system. Make him get in shape and play him.
Raybud
July 5th, 2010
1:31 am
@ all those who see this blog….if the Hawks get shaq, would he be a starter or a bench player?
N-Trigue
July 5th, 2010
1:37 am
Tyrus Thomas for center!!!
Simpdawg
July 5th, 2010
1:59 am
Shaq is not the answer folks.
Raybud
July 5th, 2010
2:26 am
@Simpdawg…..THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! AND NO I’M NOT SHOUTING AT YOU…LOL…FINALLY SOMEONE WHO SEES IT AS I DO!!
SisKing
July 5th, 2010
3:29 am
@MC: Lemme thank you brotha for all you do. You are communicative, on topic, and give an unbiased view from above of our beloved Hawks. I ain’t gonna lie, it does dismay me a bit to not have a more passionate, true-blood Hawks fan covering the team. Sekou’s love of the Hawks was obvious, and you could feel him get lifted from the ups and be twisted from the downs. But maybe your more honest view helps those of with some rose colored glasses on keep our perspective in check. All that said, you have been on point during this whole free agent frenzy and I look forward to Summer League updates and the season ahead. I simply ask that you continue keepin us in the loop. For many reading this blog, you are the closest thing they have to a “source.” Notice I said “they have”, cuz I’m connected at the top. Cheezin. But seriously, keep the info coming and don;t forget that the haters on here, and there are haters, have seen this franchise wallow in mediocrity for far too long. That will work up a dark side in any true fan. Much love MC,
Justin
July 5th, 2010
4:00 am
At least we won’t be remembered as the franchise that passed on Chris Paul now that JJ has his 6 yr./ $120 million contract.
JSS
July 5th, 2010
4:20 am
@ SisKing…
Co-sign…
People, please realize that Mr. O’Neal is 14-18 min. player now. You better have a team full of athletic cutters and not just jump shooters when playing with him. That is the only thing he still brings to the floor as a pure asset, the best out of the post passer of his generation. However, you have to screen, cut, reset the ball to the post to benefit from the skill set.
Stop talking about Brendan Haywood, we can’t afford him.
HAWKMAN
July 5th, 2010
5:20 am
PLEASE PEOPLE,TELL ME WHO? ARE THESE CENTERS, WE NEED TO GET SO BAD???? WHICH ONES ARE BETTER THAN AL HORFORD???? WHO????PEOPLE ON HERE KEEP TALKING ABOUT GETTING A CENTER???? BUT JUST TELL ME WHO CAN YOU GET?????
O'Brien
July 5th, 2010
6:05 am
For those fans asking for Haywood, this is from espn.com;
More realistic is the ability for the Mavs to re-sign center Brendan Haywood, an unrestricted free agent who met with the Miami Heat on Saturday and could command a salary between $8 million and $10 million, a rate the Mavs have not been crazy about.
The mid-level is $6 mil, so Haywood will most likely be out of our price range.
The Hawks could use another PG (which could also allow for trading Bibby at the deadline), but I think center is our biggest need on the court.
O'Brien
July 5th, 2010
6:08 am
Also, our all star Center and potential team leader has asked for help down low numerous times, so the Hawks better do what they can to get him the help he needs.
Our best moves are trades, so with Al stating his preference to play PF, I wonder if that puts Josh on the trading block?
Marcus
July 5th, 2010
6:08 am
@Section303 (12:31 am post – July 5th) – That’s why I was bummed when I saw TOR resigned PF/C Amir Johnson. Between him, Anthony Morrow (GS) and/or Ronnie Brewer (MEM) as my SG replacements (in case of his JJ didn’t resign) were my 3 fave FAs this summer.
najeh brings up a very good point. Finding a bona fide starting C to slide Al to the ‘4′ (brings all kinds of roster issues esp. on what to do w/Smoove) is a lot harder and more expensive than finding a serviceable reserve C who can spell Horford and/or give us options to move Al to the ‘4′ for short stretches of games if we decide to “go big”.
Marcus
July 5th, 2010
6:15 am
O’Brien,
One thing i worried about this true C talk is whether that type of player would counter or at least bog down our current style of play?
Some pundits said (and worried) that Shaq had that clogging/bogging down effect on CLE and didn’t give all the spacing LeBron usually had. Not to say it is 100% true …. but if we got a prototypical C, and yet recent history has shown that we are best when using the athleticism of the team to run up-and-down the court…..which style will win out and will it be to the teams overall benefit?
Bigger question: If we got another Horford-style player (similar sized, maybe undersized for a C) who could still hold his own vs. 75% of C (esp. other reserve C’s in the league), then having him as a reserve that can slide Al to the ‘4′ in certain situations might be easier to find and afford.
RoadKing
July 5th, 2010
7:10 am
Woody was a terrible defensive coach period. It took him 4 years and being down to a a team they should have handled (Bucks), before he even tried a zone! His defense did not make the best use of his players and he did not adjust to different opponents. I go to a lot of games and Al is a beast! He is the heart and spark on this team – on the court and in the locker room. He started many of runs for the Hawks. I want Al on the floor at any position. He is still improving and growing and his development is amazing. Get a good coach ( I like Drew) who coaches NBA defense and a faster defending PG and Rock and Roll.
Thank you ASG for buying the Hawks from AOL/Time Warner – boy who does not remember those days ( all you haters out there). From year one 13 wins to 53 is just a couple years !!! I love going to games now, you have put a fun and exciting team on the floor. All those haters out there saying your broke and don’t spend – you had to sign JJ and you stepped up and took care of business. All those same people are now saying bad deal. You will never make those few happy. But signing a 21pt per game scorer is never a bad deal!
I am excited for next season,
Go Hawks
dap01
July 5th, 2010
7:21 am
ZaZa needs to be moved for a center that actually fits our needs. He is an ok backup but he is 4-5 million that is tied up. We need to include him in a trade to get pieces that compliment Al.
MaxxHawk
July 5th, 2010
7:27 am
Damn MC, thanks for the love, as opposed to indifference. Let me say this: We need a bona-fide Center much more than we need a guard or perimeter Defensive player. Al has said himself multiple times that we need a big. His natural position is the 4, and he made the All-Star team playing out of position at the 5. Imagine how good he could be playing at his natural position. The best Teams in the league all have a 4-5 combo with great height and size. 1 Question, MC- What are the chances we give Garret Siler another shot?
Nahila
July 5th, 2010
8:35 am
I know this sounds crazy but Kwame Brown is available at a reachable price who properly motivated and incentivized might just be the player that could fill the big man center role for at least 20 minutes per game. He might get motivated in front of the home folk and he played okay in Detroit last season. Hire him a personal trainer to get in great shape and give him a go. Of course if we could get Shaq I would prefer him in that role, but I believe the Spurs have the inside shot at him or maybe Houston.
jojo sunshine
July 5th, 2010
8:46 am
Ok. Well now we roll with it. I was against signing JJ to major money. Sure he scored 21 a game in the regular season but what other stat reached double digits? Exactly. But now that we have him signed we need to get some trades going. We need to trade Bibby and many teams would love to have him because of his contract coming off the books after this year, which means more cap space for Carmelo. In return we could get a big that is a decent scorer but a bona fide defender and rebounder. Next I think we could move one or two more pieces to get another point guard or just sign Jordan Farmar who is a free agent (I think). He would be a great compliment to JJ because he shares the ball and is lightning quick and can shoot. Just some thoughts.
Outlet Pass: Wade’s Party, Warrior Lee + Al Horford |
July 5th, 2010
9:04 am
[...] “I’m fine with [center] but my natural position is obviously the four,” he said. Atlanta Journal-Constitution [...]
JEWELL ROLLEN
July 5th, 2010
9:11 am
UNTIL JEFF TEAGUE IS GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO RUN THE POINT WE DON’T NEED A NEW POINT GUARD. DID ANYONE SEE THE LAST REGULAR SEASON GAME WHEN JEFF PLAYED THE ENTIRE GAME AND GOT 24 POINTS 13 ASSISTS? ZHA ZHA HAS HIS GOOD MOMENTS BUT MISSES FAR TOO MANY LAY-UPS FOR ME.
JeJe
July 5th, 2010
9:20 am
Perimeter defender?
Joe and Marvin…..
Not so casual observer
July 5th, 2010
9:25 am
Name a center in the East, other than D. Howard, who had a better year than Al Horford.
To argue the Hawks will not win with Al at center is to ignore NBA history. There have been a number of NBA champs with small centers. Al is “listed” at 6′10″, but we all know those numbers are often inaccurate. Wes Unseld was listed at 6′8″ but his military draft physical measured him under 6′6″.
Dave Cowens was listed at 6′9″ and Boston won consistently with Cowens at center. Al’s game is very similar to Cowen’s game. Bill Russell was also 6′9″. If anything the changes in the NBA game have moved teams away from dominant centers to the other 4 positions.
Shaq only won championships when he had arguably the best player (Kobe), or near-best in Dwayne Wade, to actually lead his team. Shaq understood self-promotion and early in his career he declared himself MDE, unfortunately that was just his dream and was very far from the truth when you consider the dominant centers in NBA history.
The key is the other players around an undersized center, even a banger such as has been mentioned here repeatedly, and the style of play of the team. Hopefully Larry Drew will play a style that fits the Hawk roster and not attempt to force his style on the roster.
As for Al Horford at PF, you need to compare his skill set to the better PFs in the league. Does he compare to Kevin Garnett? Not really. How does he compare to Lamar Odom? Not so well in ball handling skills and shooting range. Amare’ Stoudemire and Al? You would take Stoudemire I imagine.
Al Horford brings passion and a will to win equal or above most any player. Do not relegate Al to the center scrap heap simply because he could not handle Dwight Howard. Go back to the state championship game in Howard’s senior year in high school and see he was outplayed for most of the game by – Randolph Morris! Time changes many things and Howard has improved immensely in those years.
Al Horford is capable of leading the Hawks to the championship series at center, he simply needs to have the proper team around him. “Lead” is the accurate term because, unlike Josh Smith for instance, Al is a leader with passion, who gives max effort, runs the floor in both directions, plays tough defense and makes the proper rotations, rebounds and is a more than adequate shooter. In short, Al Horford is a true professional who works at his job.
JeJe
July 5th, 2010
9:29 am
We all know Horford won’t be offered an extension, next summer there’ll be negotiations for months and he will feel alienated because our All-Star center can’t even get an extension offer from the Hawks.
This is the ASG, folks. They alienate players, don’t offer extensions until the last minute, and are broke
JeJe
July 5th, 2010
9:31 am
I heard through a friend that Smoove does not like driving to Suwanee to practice free throws with Mark Price because he thinks it’s too far. This is definitely true and I heard it directly. Apparently, Rondo works out with Price during the summer.
FIRE SUND
Not so casual observer
July 5th, 2010
9:32 am
Jeff Teague scored 24 with 13 assists against non-starters. The game was Cleveland I think and the Cavs sat 4 of their starters including LeBron. Only Antawn Jamison played any significant minutes in the meaningless game. This was not a good measure of Teague’s ability or potential.
Not so casual observer
July 5th, 2010
9:37 am
JeJe,
Actually, no one “knows” Horford will not be extended, much less everyone. Where do you come up with this stuff? I could make a fortune wagering on this type of comment with you – if you have a fortune to lose.
Your comment on Josh simply proves he is not committed to improving his game and the truth is closer to Josh being unwilling to accept coaching, in Suwanee or anywhere. Josh is an example of a player squandering his talent.
Not so casual observer
July 5th, 2010
9:42 am
Zsa Zsa misses put-backs, not layups, simply because he does not jump very well and does not have bulk to make space. A 6′11″ player having a shot blocked is embarrassing so Zsa puts up awkward attempts to avoid the block.
Lets go Hawks!
July 5th, 2010
9:42 am
DrMaryB, you said it! Joe Johnson may not be in line with the LeBron’s of the world, but I would put him in the same category as Paul Pierce. People fail to realize that it was the same thing every year with Joe. Woodson playing iso Joe offense night in and night out made Joe exhausted by playoff time. If this offense works the way its supposed to with Drew, expect more energy from Joe later in the season and even the playoffs. I would add Shaq for the mid level exception in a heartbeat. I think he will bring a attitude to these Hawks that we have never seen! I would have him come off the bench to avoid injury problems. He can play more minutes on nights we play bigger centers. I think Drew will be more creative with the Hawks then Woodson was, he really doesnt have anything to lose. I also think Teague will be just fine and Bibby is not as bad a player at a backup position.
Grandad
July 5th, 2010
9:44 am
MC
We need size.
Whether Al starts @ center or not is irrelavant.
Besides Josh is a basketball player & a wonderful athlete.
Josh can easily play the [3].
People who say Josh cannot play the [3], are you seriously
saying Marv is athletic enough @ the [3] but Josh is not.
Not to mention LD’s system should lend itself to flexibility.
However, We still need SIZE.
Sund must have sold Joe on a plan.
I’m guessing:
*Shaq in a FA signing (trading Marv & Bibby to clear space)
[Shaq playing about 18 min per in rotation with J & A + Zaza]
*Biedrins + Gadzuric in trade with GS Warriors.
*McGee S&T with Washington for Childress.
[although I've read Hinrich is coming our way in Childress S&T]
Not so casual observer
July 5th, 2010
9:47 am
Zaza, sorry for the Gabor spelling earlier, is tough and gives us much more than most players his size for the money. The Hawks would be hard pressed to replace him in the $4-5 million range.
Melvin
July 5th, 2010
9:49 am
From Hoopsworld:
“The Johnson Effect: Now that Atlanta Free agent Joe Johnson has agreed to accept the Hawks’ $119 million contract offer, a number of additional moves have been set in motion.
Sources close to the situation say that while the Hawks’ did issue a Qualifying Offer to Josh Childress and have the right to match whatever offers he receives on the open market, it now becomes highly unlikely the team matches a serious offer. Childress, who is trying to make his return to the NBA after playing two seasons in Greece, has a number of interested teams and is said to be in demand.
Childress was in demand last year; however the Hawks made it known they would match offers starting at the mid-level exception ($5.8 million last season) and teams shied away.
With Johnson’s massive deal on the books the Hawks are expected to pass matching Childress unless they can unload one of their longer term deals.
Since getting strong indications Johnson would stay last week, the Hawks have opened talks on moving both Marvin Williams and Mike Bibby.
Sources close to the Hawks list Bibby as the player the team wants to move, but understands his $5.5 million this years and $6.2 million next year may be a tough pill to swallow.
Marvin Williams has greater upside and slightly greater trade appeal but is owed $6.71 million this year, for a total of four more seasons at just at $30 million.
Atlanta sources downplayed that there was a desire to move Williams, but said that it was time to move Mike Bobby and the team is hoping that Jeff Teague, last year’s first round pick shows improvement in summer league as the team really wants to push the tempo next season and see Bibby as unable to do that effectively, without getting beat defensively.
The Hawks have leveraged their future against Joe Johnson, and now that they have his verbal commitment, the hawks have additional work to do in rounding out the roster.
For the record, the Hawks have $47.6 million in salary commitments so far for the 2010-2011 season, before Joe Johnson’s $16.8 million, putting the Hawks at $64.4 million owed to 10 players.”
Lets go Hawks!
July 5th, 2010
9:50 am
Grandad, I wouldn’t be mad at that Hinrich trade! He can hit the outside shot like Bibby and is a better passer. He might flourish with the Hawks.
Grandad
July 5th, 2010
10:01 am
Lets go Hawks!
Very good mentor for Teaguer.
+
He can play both the [1] & [2]
Not so casual observer
July 5th, 2010
10:02 am
Grandad (though you are likely younger than I),
Agree on need for size but athleticism is not the problem with Josh at 3. His inability to shoot, either as a spot-up or putting the ball on the floor to make space, is the problem. If the 3 is not a shooter and Teague plays the PG where will the help come for JJ on the perimeter? Marvin has not been a consistent answer but he is well ahead of Josh as a shooter. I fear our problem is the starters at 3 and 4 (Marvin and Josh) are not willing to do the work necessary to improve.
If the Hawks are unable to put perimeter pressure on the opponent’s defense then there will be no room for an inside game even if we add a post-up player. Actually last year Josh showed some ability on the post but he was not given many opportunites. I would wager the offense was much more productive when the ball went through Josh either on the post or above the free throw line.
I think Joe signed because of the additional money and the cool interest from the teams – NY and Chicago – who have money. Both of those teams want D. Wade and I do not see JJ and Wade as complementary players. Each needs the ball.
Not so casual observer
July 5th, 2010
10:08 am
Hinrich is tough and like Bibby he puts the ball in the right place at the right time. Hinrich is probably a better shooter at this point in this career than Bibby.
The Hawks would not have been as successful the past 2 years if not for Bibby but injuries have damaged his ability to match the quicker guards and he has become a defensive liability. Too bad because he is a good roster fit personally.
Grandad
July 5th, 2010
10:09 am
Lets go Hawks!
To do the Shaq deal or much of anything else;
we would have to ship Marv + Bibby [GS]
and get virtually nothing in return. [Salary dump]
Don’t know the ins & outs of how that would work.
I was hoping somehow we could end up with Morrow.
* I’m not Larry Coon, so, feasibility = ???
** note on Hinrich – ** very good defender.
I-ball
July 5th, 2010
10:15 am
Let’s keep one thing in mind here. There are only two players on the Hawks roster who are indispensable, meaning that they have exceptional talent and they play up to their maximal capabilities. These guys are smart, mature and driven enough that they are continuously trying to improve themselves, and their names are Joe Johnson, who is a shooting guard, and Al Horford, who is a power forward. Everybody else on the roster is either filler or trade bait. Marvin Williams has the talent to be an All-Star small forward but the mind-set of a role player, which makes him nothing but a role player. Josh Smith has the talent to be an All-Star power forward, but thus far has not shown the maturity to take his game to that level – like Charles Barkley once said, this guy should be shooting 300-400 15 foot jumpshots a day and should never again attempt a shot from outside that rqnge. My thought is you trade Marvin and Josh for a top-flight point guard and/or a legitimate NBA center if the Hawks are ever to be able to compete with Dwight Howard and the Magic.
Grandad
July 5th, 2010
10:23 am
Not so casual observer
I’m banking on LD’s system. [offensively]
Comparison to Marv, [moreso defensively].
Plus,
I’m not talking 40 min per @ the [3].
Once again, my philosophy;
“There are players who play basketball,
and then, there are ‘basketball players’.”
If we need more outsie shooting:
Jamal @ [2] & Joe @[3]
or even,
Jamal @ [[1], Jordan C. @ [2], Joe @[3].
“Flexibility” over (Rigidity/Woodson)
JeJe
July 5th, 2010
10:33 am
Not so casual,
did you not see the way ASG handled Chillz and Smoove? We coulda locked them both up easily 3 summers ago but farted around and now one of them is gone. It took ASG/Sund 3 months to sign Collins to a VETERAN MINIMUM CONRTACT.
dr.maryb, or whoever is using your username:
A coworker’s brother met Mark Price, who said that Rajon Rondo is very eager to improve shooting, so he comes to the ATL, pays for his own airfare/hotel, and works with Price. Price told the brother that he calls Smoove “every other day” and Smoove doesn’t want to drive “from Marietta to Suwanee” to work on FTs.
I don’t care if you don’t believe me — I am saying it exactly as I heard it. Do you think I have a reason to lie? I want this team to win as much as anyone else here. I am negative about the team because the front office/ownership sucks
Jerry West
July 5th, 2010
10:39 am
The Hinrich for Childress deal is an intriguing one, but almost necessitates moving Jamal. Figure you want to feature Teague and see what Jordan can do as a potential bench scorer, and you’d have 5 guards needing pt.
That said, you could ship him back to GS for Biedrins (and maybe a young prospect to make salaries match). And yes I know he wouldn’t be too happy about going back out there, but I’m sure they’d like to have that expiring deal and would work something out.
N-Trigue
July 5th, 2010
10:41 am
Tyrus Thomas is 6-10 with rebounding, scoring, and shot blocking abilities and is the best available for our price range.
Chris E
July 5th, 2010
10:42 am
I know I am in the minority but I believe Bibby still has utitlity. It will be extremely hard to move him and he is still a very good perimeter shooter. If ATL gets a true Bigman that will negate Bibby’s problems on Defense especially if you move Josh to the 3 and Al to the 4. Josh is a great help defender and a Big like Camby or Mbenga (LA) great shot blockers would plug up the middle. This would limit penetrating guards and Bibby’s perimeter shooting would offset Josh’s lack of perimeter game at the 3.
This to me is the best scenario. Then you give Teague time to mature with Jamal, Marvin & ZaZa as your primary 2nd unit. Remember although Teague has great upside on both Offense & D he does not have much of a jump shot.
Bibby still has something left and something to prove this year. That’s motivation and remember of all the guards we have he was the most touted coming out of college and the most accomplished in postseason!!!
ICECOLD
July 5th, 2010
10:49 am
i like reading about the trade senerio’s… their are very interesting when people really know what they are talkin bout, not the people that will say trade marvin for kobe, then we can be champions… no.. lol.. only the ones that make since
but if we get another point , we really need to trade jeff teague, it wouldnt be fair to have him sitting on the bench when we dont even know how good he is… if michael jordan had to sit on the bench because they traded for a all star shooting guard, we wouldnt even be thinking about a michael jordan.
so either give teague a chance this year. or trade him to a team that wants to give him a chance. and jordan crawford needs to play a lot of minutes so we can see what he can do, he might be the next best thing..
never know
Jerry West
July 5th, 2010
10:51 am
On Tyrus Thomas,
He’s not a center. Offensively, he thinks he’s a 3. He’s been known to be moody. He’s basically a skinny Josh. And if he’s 6′10, Al’s 6′11.
vava74
July 5th, 2010
10:58 am
And JJ is the disrespectful one…
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AvoBz6f6f.NhL6VxLbl9pvOLvLYF?slug=ap-heat-waitingforwade
Chris E
July 5th, 2010
11:01 am
I believe Josh knows his limitations and will work. He wants to be elite and can improve his shot. Many NBA players have done it. Josh is also a great passer and that’s what makes him special at the 3 as well. His shot to me has more to do with his confidence and decisionmaking more than the form of it. With Josh its all about the head(his mentality). If he can continue to mature and trust his coaches he will continue to improve. He came in as a 3 and has also been playing out of postion.
The Hawks definitely need better PG play but the glaring need is a Bigman and better interior Defense. Josh, Al & Joe just played too many minutes and doing that undersized will kill you over the course of the season. The Hawks have overachieved and I believe they believe in LD and will work harder for him than Woody. If they trust the new offensive system implemented then they will be much better than last year provided they get a legit Big!!!
J from the A
July 5th, 2010
11:02 am
I mentioned this elsewhere, but Portland is open to trades. They have 3 centers on roster and not a single starting caliber (or even near-starting caliber) SF on roster. Does anyone think it is realistic to think that Portland might trade us one of their bigs for one of our SF (Williams, rights to Childress) without requiring much else.
I know that Joel Przybilla is a name that has been specifically thrown around in trade rumors (and even mentioned by some Hawks’ fans as someone the Hawks could legitimately target), but what about Marcus Camby. I know Camby is a bit aged, but he is still a formidable defender, and, for someone his size and age, runs the court extremely well. Plus, I don’t think he would mind a coming-off-the-bench role on a quality team.
ICECOLD
July 5th, 2010
11:02 am
and we dont need a center, people dont understand the athleticism of our powerfoward anc center , josh and al…
if we dont get a athletic center that can block shots and score, it would be a waist of time and money.. the hawks dont need nobody thats just going to clog up the hole.. because then it would handicap al to move around.. so no slow old centers please ,, (SHAQ!!!!!!!)
unless he is playing only 15-20 minutes a game
and josh can play the three, he plays the perimeter on this summa league team in atlanta with rajon rando and javaris critician…
he can definitly play the three especially if al is playing power forward and they get a real center is can start..
he will have to run more and cant be the last man up the court or complaining to the refs while the ball is in play and he will be alright..
playing the 3 dont mean u have to just sit their and shoot threes all day, you can attack the basket and his assist ( which he is good at ) will almost double if he plays it right..
and he only has to start at the three, he doesnt have to play it the whole time.
so dont doubt him, he is capable, he will block more shots because he can play help defense better!!
so yep
J from the A
July 5th, 2010
11:17 am
@Chris E: I agree with your Bibby comments. He definitely still has utility. Plus, he was the starting PG for a team that had the fewest turnovers in the NBA last year. Only in Atlanta does the starting PG not get his deserved credit for such a feat.
I am still not sold on moving Josh to the 3, though. Defensively he loves being down low. He is not a great one-on-one defender around the perimeter. (Think: Josh on P. Pierce, L. James, etc.) Offensively he lacks a solid outside shot and the ball handling skills necessary to be a solid 3. However, he is a good passer, he is a good help defender, and he does play the passing lanes well.
i_am_soulstar
July 5th, 2010
11:19 am
Would Shaq even be willing to come off the bench?
J from the A
July 5th, 2010
11:25 am
Unless you are bringing him in for a marketing ploy, please just say no to Shaq. (And I would prefer more winning over a marketing ploy, so I would prefer saying no to Shaq no matter what.)
i_am_soulstar
July 5th, 2010
11:27 am
Man, we can argue about Josh at the 3 all summer long.
Forgot all this stuff about his outside shot, it only boils down to one thing: Can he defensively contain the other 3’s in the league. As great as Josh is at help defense and playing the lanes, he gets blown by when he’s out on the perimeter. Horford’s a better perimeter defender than Josh, because he has great lateral movement.
If you want another season of lackluster perimeter D, sticking Josh at the 3′ll help get us there in a hurry.
Chris E
July 5th, 2010
11:28 am
ICECOLD I am with you all the way. No slow Big!!! He has to be athletic and preferably a shot blocker. Also yeah Josh would not play the 3 all game long. The Hawks have alot of versatility. They could play JJ at the 3 sometimes and Al at the 5 like last year. Bibby, Jamal & JJ all together or Josh,Al & ZaZa. We definitely can utilize Marvin in many different ways as well.
So the Hawks can show many different looks including Teague, Jamal, JJ, Josh & Al as a speed lineup. We must keep in mind that the Hawks won 53 games last year and the glaring
Jerry West
July 5th, 2010
11:28 am
J from the A,
Portland has a young SF named Batum that they’re high on. He’s really athletic, young, and is a pretty decent shooter. He got hurt last year but will be back. They also drafted a SF (Babbitt) in the 1st round. Don’t think they want Marvin.
As for their centers, they’re not letting Camby go, Oden and Pryzbilla can’t stay healthy. That’s why they traded for him and extended him. (With this FA market, I still wonder why Camby didn’t just wait for summer. He coulda cashed in and been on more of a sure thing contender. Oh well.) Of the group, I guess the Hawks could go after Pryzbilla, but with what?
It’d be cool if Sund could sell Portland on Bibby being a shooting PG that would complement Roy better than Andre Miller (esp. if it were a straight swap for Miller – ha!), but good luck with that.
Big Ray
July 5th, 2010
11:29 am
Not so casual observer
Been enjoying reading your comments. Nice stuff.
Section 303
July 5th, 2010
11:35 am
i_am-soulstar, would you really want Shaq doing anything else? I think the Hawks would be a good fit for him, assuming he comes at a decent price. Shaq would not have to log major minutes. My thoughts are anything more than 15 minutes a night would cause him to break down. So, keep him in that time frame (kind of like giving a pitcher a pitch count). Save his longer minutes for the playoffs when there is a longer rest between games.
If the Hawks do go after Shaq, you have to think that he will miss at least a month of the season (probably more) due to injury. So, getting Shaq is not really a “full time” solution to any problems in the post. In fact, you might want to sit him the entire game if the Hawks are playing teams with a weak post lineup.
I like the idea of Shaq, but I think he will probably want too much money and he will probably expect more minutes. If he is willing to come at a good price, accept the fact he won’t play some nights, and be ready to bang with guys like Howard when needed, then he would be a great addition to the team.
i_am_soulstar
July 5th, 2010
11:37 am
Chris E,
I agree man. I think Bibby could definitely be that shooter off the bench. Plus, I used to tell my girl all season last season, who swore he was useless, that this man’s assist to turnover ratio doesn’t get the respect it deserves. I think he’ll be a good piece to have off the bench in the playoffs.
And maybe Marvin caught a tough break going from the 3rd option to the 5th and not really be able to adjust, and more than likely, he’ll step up and do better next year.
But if we can big for Bibby and Marvin, whether it’s a direct trade or clearing cap space to sign one, then I’m all for it.
i_am_soulstar
July 5th, 2010
11:39 am
Section 303,
Of course not, the man’s 60 years old! But is this something that he’d be ok with? Some used-to-be star players would rather retire than come off the bench.
Meidzo in Decatur
July 5th, 2010
11:49 am
Meant to say all this poor little Al the Dwarf talk is disingenuous!
Section 303
July 5th, 2010
11:49 am
i_am-soulstar, I hear ya’. Who knows? If he won’t come off the bench and accept less minutes, then he can go play somewhere else. He wouldn’t last a month logging major minutes. I think he would, in fact, get hurt a lot playing reduced minutes.
JIMMYMACK
July 5th, 2010
11:49 am
What about the Assistant Coaches??????????????????????????????????????
Chris E
July 5th, 2010
11:53 am
Yeah, I definitely have concerns about Josh at the 3 and J your points are duly noted, especially Josh’s lateral movement on D. However, in my opinion we are better with Josh at the 3 and a Big instead of Marvin at the 3, Josh the 4 & Al at the 5.
Generally in the NBA the team that rebounds the best wins. One problem with the better teams the Hawks faced we were dominated on the boards. Even if your not shooting well as a team, if you rebound you have more opportunities at second chance points.
Orlando always killed us on the boards and held us to one possesion. With Al, Josh and a Big we will become even better on the boards, especially against the elite opponents. Marvin just does not give us enough consistent production and if given a limited role off the bench I believe he would have to be more aggressive. This will bode well for the the Hawks overall.
Big Ray
July 5th, 2010
11:55 am
If you want to know Al Horford’s height, look it up at draftexpress.com, in the combine measurements database. He measured out at 6′8.75″ without shoes, and 6′9.75″ with shoes with a 7′0.75″ wingspan.
People talk about size, but it’s not about simply “size.” If it was, then explain to me how “little Al” ate big Roy Hibbert’s (7′2″ 280 lbs) lunch every time we played Indiana? I mean, really …
The issue is finding a guy who can man the pivot WELL, and that has to be on both ends of the floor. Why are we hard up about getting a guy who can succeed against Shaq and Dwight? Are those the only two guys we play? Shaq isn’t even a starter anymore. Last I looked there were only about 4 guys in the league who could truly compete with Dwight in the post (by the way, he measured at 6′9″ without shoes, and 6′10.25″ with them).
We’d have to get somebody who can AT LEAST do what Al did at the center spot, in the way of Rebounds and defense (which includes, but is not limited to blocks).
Heh. Much luck on finding and acquiring that guy. And don’t even think about trading Horford. He’s still on his rookie contract, and already made the all-star team. The Hawks aren’t trading him for anybody short of Dwight Howard. Believe it.
Melvin
July 5th, 2010
11:59 am
Look who Hoopyshype have on the trading block for the Hawks….lol
http://hoopshype.com/market_center.htm