Atlanta Hawks: Al Horford’s summer

“Is getting a starting center more important than finding a defensive perimeter guy who can upgrade a group that still could have Jamal and Bibby playing heavy minutes?”

im pulling for Teague.. but clearly if there is a ideal floor general out there available, get him.

Al can whole his own but struggles against 2 guys.. Dwight and the guy id like to bring in to offset him Shaq.

does Shaq want to add another alias? ” The Big Bird”

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his natural position is the 4, but HE IS NOT a better PF than Josh Smith. when he realizes that he will feel a lot better about himself..

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Big AL is the man to build around and he is a better PF than Josh zhe went to the all star game over smooth

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I’m not the least bit worried about Al Horford. I’m sure he is doing what it takes over the summer to be ready for the season. I am very impressed with his work helping kids all over the world.

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Well truth I know u don’t care what al h says but dId u see that written word on perimeter dfender and point guard. Gee do u remember hearing that somewhere else?

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@BJ…don’t forget that Smoove was runner up for defensive player of the year behind Howard. There were so many people who said he got robbed for a spot in the All Star Game. For those that don’t know, he is the energy and the emotion of the team, not JJ, nor Horford. No, i’m not doubting there game as players, but Smith is the second coming of the human highlight.

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MC,

If there is one guy I would want the hawks to lock up for the long run it would be Horford. Im afraid this JJ deal is definitely going to make that a bit hard. How much cap room do we have left for other players after this deal?

Also from all his interviews Al seems really professional and attitude free but you think he would opt if he doesn’t get what he wants (a big man center)? I don’t expect LD’s plan to be a walk in the park right off the bat and am interested to see how people like Al would react especially if we dont fork up the money for someone that could handle Dwight.

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Horford needs to player the forward position and we need to get a true center.

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Looks like Jamal and Evans and possibly Bibby are gone next year to re-sign Horford. Jamal would be 31/32, so it’s probably best – but he is one of my favorite Hawks. Unless the Hawks get a legit center and trade Josh – maybe Josh for Al Jefferson?

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Getting a center is the most important thing. Let’s not forget the effect Dwight’s mere prescense had against the Hawks or the how the size of the Cavaliers the year before proved too much for the Hawks to handle. Also, I wouldn’t be quick to draw the conclusion that Smoove is a better 4 than Al. Al knows that if he gets the opportunity to play is natural position, his numbers and his effect on the game (particularly the paint) will continue him to improve making him an all-star once again next year. As much as I love Josh, he’s a “converted 4″ not a natural 4 as he came into the league playing the 3. His athletic ability allows him to be a factor right now, but when that starts to fade, how effective of a 4 will he be?

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“But if forced to choose, which might be what happens to the Hawks, would you rather acquire a center that can displace Al as a starter or a point guard you are sure can run L.D.’s revolutionary new offense so J.J. doesn’t have the ball so much?”

But the choices are actually many more than simply a choice between these two options. I think many of us are calling for more depth, particularly at the 5 spot. This means, first, we find a big man that would be capable of starting, but who would also not mind coming off the bench (with the idea that he would be coming off the bench, not displacing any starters). Then, we need to ask ourselves what last piece is more important. Another PG? Or another SF? It seems like that the opinion that is shared by yourself and Al is that we should make another PG a priority. Many of the bloggers are calling for a replacement for Williams.

Of course, there are probably much more creative ways to build this team into a champion. Any creative ideas out there that don’t include the impossible?

And then there is the wildcard: What’s up with Childress. I don’t expect him to be in a Hawks uniform, but do the Hawks still hold enough leverage to force a sign and trade or does the JJ deal really rob the Hawks from what little leverage they might have had?

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Good point, Jody, you kind of beat me to it.

Josh, Al, and JJ are your workhorses on offense. They’re always going to play big minutes because of what they bring to the table.

So if you slide Al over to the 4 full-time, you either reduce Smoove’s minutes or have him play a lot of 3. Then you’ve only got two shooters on the floor, at the 1 and the 2.

Al’s going to have to keep playing center for us to be successful, as long as Josh is around.

Also, great points about Al being able to outplay pretty much ever center other than Dwight. I still go back to Hubie Brown’s comments in the Orlando series about how the X’s and O’s were so bad. We had caught up to Boston, and we were catching up to Cleveland. Only Orlando was killing us, and I think we have the talent to hang with them, if we get coached up.

I think we had to work too hard to out-talent people, but if you add good coaching to that, we can take it to the next level.

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Al is an All star at … you guessed it! … the center position.

It’s not about running small or running big. It is about running the best line up for your system (or vice versa). Then having the appropriate tools in your repertoire that allow you to adjust strategies, rotations, etc. as needed. Having a genuine, defensive big in your back pocket is simply one of those tools that many think the Hawks need to have in their repertoire.

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big Al, is only 6ft 8..he is a natural 4..at Fla he played the 4..move smooth to the 3 and get a damn center..big al will leave if we do not….Dont trade Marvin…Big mistake if we do…Woody’s iso joe/iso jamal system and refusal to play his bench held back or ruined a lot of solid players in Atl, Diaw,Williams,Salim,Morris,Law, and even Solo….Teauge was next…..We need a 6 ft 10 or taller guy he can play o and d….we will never win until we get a center….

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I do not understand the people who have been bashing Al. I think I must be watching a different Al Horford than they are. Yes, he is not a true center, but I think he is better than 85% of the centers out there. People forget there are not many good big men around. Not many teams have a center that they couldn’t live without. I think the Hawks should focus on finding a decent backup for Al (not going to be easy). Possibly someone who could eat up some minutes and put Al at the four for parts of each game.

If the result of that is Josh at the 3, though, I want no part of it. Josh Smith at the 3 should never happen, unless a rash of injuries or foul trouble happens.

Anyways, I think the PG position is more important right now. Very doubtful a decent big man shows up on the radar. Much more likely to find a better PG.

I want to believe that Teague will be able to get the job done this year…just not sure. He has the potential. He is a good athlete and a good defender. Not sure about his ability to run the show. Will be interesting to watch him develope in Summer League and exhibition games. But, if the Hawks were smart, they might want to keep their eyes open for a decent PG to bring in here.

And, I know Bibby is here, but I see him more useful as a shooter…he can run the offense, but his D is just so bad…have to have an upgrade at PG…some insurance in case Teague does not panout, at least.

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Also, the position a player played in high school does not determine what his “natural” NBA position will be. Primarily a player’s skill set, and then, size, determines his “natural” NBA position.

Great interior defense? Check
Rebounding ability? Check
Explosiveness around the rim? Check
Ball handling? Not so much.
Outside shot? NOOOOOOOO! Don’t shoot even think about taking that shot!
Perimeter Defense? OK, but not nearly as consistent as interior defense.
Passing? Actually pretty decent.

Does that sound more like a PF or SF? hmmmm …

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SHAQ SHAQ SHAQ SHAQ SHAQ SHAQ SHAQ SHAQ SHAQ SHAQ SHAQ SHAQ SHAQ SHAQ SHAQ. This is what those guys Horfords in that picture above with said when Al asked them who could help the Hawks.

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shaq woulb be kool and this sound crazy but i wish the hawks could get kendrick perkins from boston it will never happen but thats the perfect 5 for this team he gives D.howard major issues

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@ all those who see this blog….if the Hawks get shaq, would he be a starter or a bench player?

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Shaq is not the answer folks.

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@MC: Lemme thank you brotha for all you do. You are communicative, on topic, and give an unbiased view from above of our beloved Hawks. I ain’t gonna lie, it does dismay me a bit to not have a more passionate, true-blood Hawks fan covering the team. Sekou’s love of the Hawks was obvious, and you could feel him get lifted from the ups and be twisted from the downs. But maybe your more honest view helps those of with some rose colored glasses on keep our perspective in check. All that said, you have been on point during this whole free agent frenzy and I look forward to Summer League updates and the season ahead. I simply ask that you continue keepin us in the loop. For many reading this blog, you are the closest thing they have to a “source.” Notice I said “they have”, cuz I’m connected at the top. Cheezin. But seriously, keep the info coming and don;t forget that the haters on here, and there are haters, have seen this franchise wallow in mediocrity for far too long. That will work up a dark side in any true fan. Much love MC,

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@ SisKing…
Co-sign…

People, please realize that Mr. O’Neal is 14-18 min. player now. You better have a team full of athletic cutters and not just jump shooters when playing with him. That is the only thing he still brings to the floor as a pure asset, the best out of the post passer of his generation. However, you have to screen, cut, reset the ball to the post to benefit from the skill set.

Stop talking about Brendan Haywood, we can’t afford him.

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For those fans asking for Haywood, this is from espn.com;

More realistic is the ability for the Mavs to re-sign center Brendan Haywood, an unrestricted free agent who met with the Miami Heat on Saturday and could command a salary between $8 million and $10 million, a rate the Mavs have not been crazy about.

The mid-level is $6 mil, so Haywood will most likely be out of our price range.

The Hawks could use another PG (which could also allow for trading Bibby at the deadline), but I think center is our biggest need on the court.

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@Section303 (12:31 am post – July 5th) – That’s why I was bummed when I saw TOR resigned PF/C Amir Johnson. Between him, Anthony Morrow (GS) and/or Ronnie Brewer (MEM) as my SG replacements (in case of his JJ didn’t resign) were my 3 fave FAs this summer.

najeh brings up a very good point. Finding a bona fide starting C to slide Al to the ‘4′ (brings all kinds of roster issues esp. on what to do w/Smoove) is a lot harder and more expensive than finding a serviceable reserve C who can spell Horford and/or give us options to move Al to the ‘4′ for short stretches of games if we decide to “go big”.

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Woody was a terrible defensive coach period. It took him 4 years and being down to a a team they should have handled (Bucks), before he even tried a zone! His defense did not make the best use of his players and he did not adjust to different opponents. I go to a lot of games and Al is a beast! He is the heart and spark on this team – on the court and in the locker room. He started many of runs for the Hawks. I want Al on the floor at any position. He is still improving and growing and his development is amazing. Get a good coach ( I like Drew) who coaches NBA defense and a faster defending PG and Rock and Roll.
Thank you ASG for buying the Hawks from AOL/Time Warner – boy who does not remember those days ( all you haters out there). From year one 13 wins to 53 is just a couple years !!! I love going to games now, you have put a fun and exciting team on the floor. All those haters out there saying your broke and don’t spend – you had to sign JJ and you stepped up and took care of business. All those same people are now saying bad deal. You will never make those few happy. But signing a 21pt per game scorer is never a bad deal!
I am excited for next season,
Go Hawks

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Damn MC, thanks for the love, as opposed to indifference. Let me say this: We need a bona-fide Center much more than we need a guard or perimeter Defensive player. Al has said himself multiple times that we need a big. His natural position is the 4, and he made the All-Star team playing out of position at the 5. Imagine how good he could be playing at his natural position. The best Teams in the league all have a 4-5 combo with great height and size. 1 Question, MC- What are the chances we give Garret Siler another shot?

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Ok. Well now we roll with it. I was against signing JJ to major money. Sure he scored 21 a game in the regular season but what other stat reached double digits? Exactly. But now that we have him signed we need to get some trades going. We need to trade Bibby and many teams would love to have him because of his contract coming off the books after this year, which means more cap space for Carmelo. In return we could get a big that is a decent scorer but a bona fide defender and rebounder. Next I think we could move one or two more pieces to get another point guard or just sign Jordan Farmar who is a free agent (I think). He would be a great compliment to JJ because he shares the ball and is lightning quick and can shoot. Just some thoughts.

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UNTIL JEFF TEAGUE IS GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO RUN THE POINT WE DON’T NEED A NEW POINT GUARD. DID ANYONE SEE THE LAST REGULAR SEASON GAME WHEN JEFF PLAYED THE ENTIRE GAME AND GOT 24 POINTS 13 ASSISTS? ZHA ZHA HAS HIS GOOD MOMENTS BUT MISSES FAR TOO MANY LAY-UPS FOR ME.

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Name a center in the East, other than D. Howard, who had a better year than Al Horford.

To argue the Hawks will not win with Al at center is to ignore NBA history. There have been a number of NBA champs with small centers. Al is “listed” at 6′10″, but we all know those numbers are often inaccurate. Wes Unseld was listed at 6′8″ but his military draft physical measured him under 6′6″.

Dave Cowens was listed at 6′9″ and Boston won consistently with Cowens at center. Al’s game is very similar to Cowen’s game. Bill Russell was also 6′9″. If anything the changes in the NBA game have moved teams away from dominant centers to the other 4 positions.

Shaq only won championships when he had arguably the best player (Kobe), or near-best in Dwayne Wade, to actually lead his team. Shaq understood self-promotion and early in his career he declared himself MDE, unfortunately that was just his dream and was very far from the truth when you consider the dominant centers in NBA history.

The key is the other players around an undersized center, even a banger such as has been mentioned here repeatedly, and the style of play of the team. Hopefully Larry Drew will play a style that fits the Hawk roster and not attempt to force his style on the roster.

As for Al Horford at PF, you need to compare his skill set to the better PFs in the league. Does he compare to Kevin Garnett? Not really. How does he compare to Lamar Odom? Not so well in ball handling skills and shooting range. Amare’ Stoudemire and Al? You would take Stoudemire I imagine.

Al Horford brings passion and a will to win equal or above most any player. Do not relegate Al to the center scrap heap simply because he could not handle Dwight Howard. Go back to the state championship game in Howard’s senior year in high school and see he was outplayed for most of the game by – Randolph Morris! Time changes many things and Howard has improved immensely in those years.

Al Horford is capable of leading the Hawks to the championship series at center, he simply needs to have the proper team around him. “Lead” is the accurate term because, unlike Josh Smith for instance, Al is a leader with passion, who gives max effort, runs the floor in both directions, plays tough defense and makes the proper rotations, rebounds and is a more than adequate shooter. In short, Al Horford is a true professional who works at his job.

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I heard through a friend that Smoove does not like driving to Suwanee to practice free throws with Mark Price because he thinks it’s too far. This is definitely true and I heard it directly. Apparently, Rondo works out with Price during the summer.

FIRE SUND

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JeJe,

Actually, no one “knows” Horford will not be extended, much less everyone. Where do you come up with this stuff? I could make a fortune wagering on this type of comment with you – if you have a fortune to lose.

Your comment on Josh simply proves he is not committed to improving his game and the truth is closer to Josh being unwilling to accept coaching, in Suwanee or anywhere. Josh is an example of a player squandering his talent.

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DrMaryB, you said it! Joe Johnson may not be in line with the LeBron’s of the world, but I would put him in the same category as Paul Pierce. People fail to realize that it was the same thing every year with Joe. Woodson playing iso Joe offense night in and night out made Joe exhausted by playoff time. If this offense works the way its supposed to with Drew, expect more energy from Joe later in the season and even the playoffs. I would add Shaq for the mid level exception in a heartbeat. I think he will bring a attitude to these Hawks that we have never seen! I would have him come off the bench to avoid injury problems. He can play more minutes on nights we play bigger centers. I think Drew will be more creative with the Hawks then Woodson was, he really doesnt have anything to lose. I also think Teague will be just fine and Bibby is not as bad a player at a backup position.

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Zaza, sorry for the Gabor spelling earlier, is tough and gives us much more than most players his size for the money. The Hawks would be hard pressed to replace him in the $4-5 million range.

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Grandad, I wouldn’t be mad at that Hinrich trade! He can hit the outside shot like Bibby and is a better passer. He might flourish with the Hawks.

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Grandad (though you are likely younger than I),

Agree on need for size but athleticism is not the problem with Josh at 3. His inability to shoot, either as a spot-up or putting the ball on the floor to make space, is the problem. If the 3 is not a shooter and Teague plays the PG where will the help come for JJ on the perimeter? Marvin has not been a consistent answer but he is well ahead of Josh as a shooter. I fear our problem is the starters at 3 and 4 (Marvin and Josh) are not willing to do the work necessary to improve.

If the Hawks are unable to put perimeter pressure on the opponent’s defense then there will be no room for an inside game even if we add a post-up player. Actually last year Josh showed some ability on the post but he was not given many opportunites. I would wager the offense was much more productive when the ball went through Josh either on the post or above the free throw line.

I think Joe signed because of the additional money and the cool interest from the teams – NY and Chicago – who have money. Both of those teams want D. Wade and I do not see JJ and Wade as complementary players. Each needs the ball.

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Lets go Hawks!

To do the Shaq deal or much of anything else;
we would have to ship Marv + Bibby [GS]
and get virtually nothing in return. [Salary dump]
Don’t know the ins & outs of how that would work.
I was hoping somehow we could end up with Morrow.
* I’m not Larry Coon, so, feasibility = ???

** note on Hinrich – ** very good defender.

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Not so casual observer

I’m banking on LD’s system. [offensively]
Comparison to Marv, [moreso defensively].
Plus,
I’m not talking 40 min per @ the [3].
Once again, my philosophy;
“There are players who play basketball,
and then, there are ‘basketball players’.”

If we need more outsie shooting:
Jamal @ [2] & Joe @[3]
or even,
Jamal @ [[1], Jordan C. @ [2], Joe @[3].
“Flexibility” over (Rigidity/Woodson)

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The Hinrich for Childress deal is an intriguing one, but almost necessitates moving Jamal. Figure you want to feature Teague and see what Jordan can do as a potential bench scorer, and you’d have 5 guards needing pt.

That said, you could ship him back to GS for Biedrins (and maybe a young prospect to make salaries match). And yes I know he wouldn’t be too happy about going back out there, but I’m sure they’d like to have that expiring deal and would work something out.

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I know I am in the minority but I believe Bibby still has utitlity. It will be extremely hard to move him and he is still a very good perimeter shooter. If ATL gets a true Bigman that will negate Bibby’s problems on Defense especially if you move Josh to the 3 and Al to the 4. Josh is a great help defender and a Big like Camby or Mbenga (LA) great shot blockers would plug up the middle. This would limit penetrating guards and Bibby’s perimeter shooting would offset Josh’s lack of perimeter game at the 3.

This to me is the best scenario. Then you give Teague time to mature with Jamal, Marvin & ZaZa as your primary 2nd unit. Remember although Teague has great upside on both Offense & D he does not have much of a jump shot.

Bibby still has something left and something to prove this year. That’s motivation and remember of all the guards we have he was the most touted coming out of college and the most accomplished in postseason!!!

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On Tyrus Thomas,

He’s not a center. Offensively, he thinks he’s a 3. He’s been known to be moody. He’s basically a skinny Josh. And if he’s 6′10, Al’s 6′11.

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I believe Josh knows his limitations and will work. He wants to be elite and can improve his shot. Many NBA players have done it. Josh is also a great passer and that’s what makes him special at the 3 as well. His shot to me has more to do with his confidence and decisionmaking more than the form of it. With Josh its all about the head(his mentality). If he can continue to mature and trust his coaches he will continue to improve. He came in as a 3 and has also been playing out of postion.

The Hawks definitely need better PG play but the glaring need is a Bigman and better interior Defense. Josh, Al & Joe just played too many minutes and doing that undersized will kill you over the course of the season. The Hawks have overachieved and I believe they believe in LD and will work harder for him than Woody. If they trust the new offensive system implemented then they will be much better than last year provided they get a legit Big!!!

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and we dont need a center, people dont understand the athleticism of our powerfoward anc center , josh and al…

if we dont get a athletic center that can block shots and score, it would be a waist of time and money.. the hawks dont need nobody thats just going to clog up the hole.. because then it would handicap al to move around.. so no slow old centers please ,, (SHAQ!!!!!!!)

unless he is playing only 15-20 minutes a game

and josh can play the three, he plays the perimeter on this summa league team in atlanta with rajon rando and javaris critician…

he can definitly play the three especially if al is playing power forward and they get a real center is can start..

he will have to run more and cant be the last man up the court or complaining to the refs while the ball is in play and he will be alright..

playing the 3 dont mean u have to just sit their and shoot threes all day, you can attack the basket and his assist ( which he is good at ) will almost double if he plays it right..

and he only has to start at the three, he doesnt have to play it the whole time.

so dont doubt him, he is capable, he will block more shots because he can play help defense better!!

so yep

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Would Shaq even be willing to come off the bench?

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Man, we can argue about Josh at the 3 all summer long.

Forgot all this stuff about his outside shot, it only boils down to one thing: Can he defensively contain the other 3’s in the league. As great as Josh is at help defense and playing the lanes, he gets blown by when he’s out on the perimeter. Horford’s a better perimeter defender than Josh, because he has great lateral movement.

If you want another season of lackluster perimeter D, sticking Josh at the 3′ll help get us there in a hurry.

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J from the A,

Portland has a young SF named Batum that they’re high on. He’s really athletic, young, and is a pretty decent shooter. He got hurt last year but will be back. They also drafted a SF (Babbitt) in the 1st round. Don’t think they want Marvin.

As for their centers, they’re not letting Camby go, Oden and Pryzbilla can’t stay healthy. That’s why they traded for him and extended him. (With this FA market, I still wonder why Camby didn’t just wait for summer. He coulda cashed in and been on more of a sure thing contender. Oh well.) Of the group, I guess the Hawks could go after Pryzbilla, but with what?

It’d be cool if Sund could sell Portland on Bibby being a shooting PG that would complement Roy better than Andre Miller (esp. if it were a straight swap for Miller – ha!), but good luck with that.

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i_am-soulstar, would you really want Shaq doing anything else? I think the Hawks would be a good fit for him, assuming he comes at a decent price. Shaq would not have to log major minutes. My thoughts are anything more than 15 minutes a night would cause him to break down. So, keep him in that time frame (kind of like giving a pitcher a pitch count). Save his longer minutes for the playoffs when there is a longer rest between games.

If the Hawks do go after Shaq, you have to think that he will miss at least a month of the season (probably more) due to injury. So, getting Shaq is not really a “full time” solution to any problems in the post. In fact, you might want to sit him the entire game if the Hawks are playing teams with a weak post lineup.

I like the idea of Shaq, but I think he will probably want too much money and he will probably expect more minutes. If he is willing to come at a good price, accept the fact he won’t play some nights, and be ready to bang with guys like Howard when needed, then he would be a great addition to the team.

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Section 303,

Of course not, the man’s 60 years old! But is this something that he’d be ok with? Some used-to-be star players would rather retire than come off the bench.

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i_am-soulstar, I hear ya’. Who knows? If he won’t come off the bench and accept less minutes, then he can go play somewhere else. He wouldn’t last a month logging major minutes. I think he would, in fact, get hurt a lot playing reduced minutes.

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Yeah, I definitely have concerns about Josh at the 3 and J your points are duly noted, especially Josh’s lateral movement on D. However, in my opinion we are better with Josh at the 3 and a Big instead of Marvin at the 3, Josh the 4 & Al at the 5.

Generally in the NBA the team that rebounds the best wins. One problem with the better teams the Hawks faced we were dominated on the boards. Even if your not shooting well as a team, if you rebound you have more opportunities at second chance points.

Orlando always killed us on the boards and held us to one possesion. With Al, Josh and a Big we will become even better on the boards, especially against the elite opponents. Marvin just does not give us enough consistent production and if given a limited role off the bench I believe he would have to be more aggressive. This will bode well for the the Hawks overall.

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Look who Hoopyshype have on the trading block for the Hawks….lol

http://hoopshype.com/market_center.htm

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Why do people assume that Josh is a better power forward than Al is?

Let’s see: Josh averaged 15.7 ppg and 8.7 rpg on 50.5% shooting from the field while playing the 4.

Al averaged 14.2 ppg and 9.9 rpg on 55% shooting.

Oh yeah, despite the fact that he was playing out of position at center, while being undersized .

Love to hear a credible explanation as to how it’s a fact that Al is less of a power forward when he made the all-star team as a center, rebounds better, shoots from the field better, and plays with more consistency, despite being matched up with bigger guys.

Josh is great, don’t get me wrong. But he is superior in blocks, crowd-pleasing dunks, and assists (because he takes the ball more). That’s it.

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Big Ray, I agree with you 100 percent on the Josh vs. Al debate. Al Horford is gonna be way better this year then he was last year. The reason he will be is because he works at his game and it shows. I never thought Al would perfect that mid range jump shot the way he did. Imagine if he was shooting over power forwards instead of centers………

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Lets go Hawks!

Precisely. I’m not arguing that Al is a better PF than Josh, I think that’s only a debate you enter if you’re looking at choosing between the two.

On the flip side, show me where Josh has shown the capacity to work hard at succeeding outside of his comfort zone? Josh has been shooting jumpers (inaccurately) for how many years now? Horford is already shooting better from that distance. Interesting, no?

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Why not just play JJ at the 3 and move Jamal into the starting lineup at the 2. Let Marvin come off the bench if he is still on the squad. We still have Jordan Crawford coming off the bench to score and we probably could add someone else before the season starts.

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i think Josh’s play making ability gives him the edge.. i just dont see Al as a PF.. i mean sure he’s built like one.. however, i think Al can play @ an all star level for years to come focusing on being a face up center.. his defense is fine @ the 5 other than the obvious exceptions. i think we have the luxury of going big using him @ 4 but he should start @ center..

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J from the A : that does not surprise me(Bibby, Jamal & Joe). And everyones points are valid about Josh at the 3 but I just don’t see any choice in the matter if we are going to bring a Big in which I believe we have to do.

The last 2 years have proven to me that we cannot take the next step without a serviceable Big!!! And I think Al has a consistent enough 15 to 20 footer to keep defenses honest even if Josh can’t. Now if we could get a Hinrich type with a proven jumper and not as much of a liability on defense I am all for it. But seriously, I only think the Hawks can make 1 more big move and that’s to get a decent Center.

It might be wishful thinking but I believe Josh can step up at the 3. That being said, we definitely don’t need Shaq!!!

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hey Al why not come here in the Philippines?

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i_am_soulstar,

Interesting stats, however, I would prefer to have those stats adjusted by eliminating all games against sub-.500 teams.

Strictly playoff opponents is what we need to know.

The crude fact is that the much maligned switching D worked wonders against MOST sub-par teams BUT was DISASTROUS against most playoff teams and a few sub-par teams.

The notable exceptions were BOS, against the switching D worked well (but BOS were playing throughout the year at “energy-saving-mode” and twice without Garnett) and on the flip side, we had the Knicks and Pistons who played particularly well against the switching D.

The same applies to the ISO-heavy offense:

It works reasonably well against MOST sub-par teams and failed miserably against MOST playoff bound teams.

The main issue is that we DID get 53 wins, however, that was FOOLS’ GOLD: looks good on the standings but did not – as most of us around here anticipated from the All Star break onwards – survive the ultimate test.

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The Hawks will be making a trade with either Portland or GS. First, Portland has 3 centers and no SF. Also, their back PG position is weak. Marvin and Bibby are a perfect financial and player match for both teams. The Hawks will have accept a throw player for the trade, but it addresses a huge need a legit center who can defend and rebound. There numerous veteran backup PG guards the Hawks can sign to shore up the guard rotation. If not Portland, then GS. The deal is this Marvin, Bibby, and Mo Evans for Biedrins & Gadzurie the throw in players. Everyone is saying we stole Jamal, but he not fit into GS future plans. The Hawks ate the different between Law & Claxton contract. Also, they quickly traded both. Their new direction dictates that Biedrins is not in their plans. Finally, the word is that Hinrich will be traded to the Hawks after the moves concerning Marvin Bibby.
Hopefully, the moves are made.

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vava74,

It s a copy and paste from the link listed at the bottom of the post, but you’re right, eliminating stats from the sub-.500 teams would provide us with a better picture of what may be effective or ineffective come playoff time.

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Shaq, Shaq and more Shaq!

He’s big, real big and dominant.

Even at the end of his career, no one player can handle the Diesel, not even fake Superman.

A mid-level 2 yr. deal for about 20-30 min. per game is ideal for the Hawks.

He wont displace anyone, while the Hawks buy time.

He has a home in ATL, so he already likes it here.

He doesnt want to play with Lebron anymore.

Sign and trade Chill/Bibby for Shaq and Delonte.

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“The crude fact is that the much maligned switching D worked wonders against MOST sub-par teams BUT was DISASTROUS against most playoff teams and a few sub-par teams.”

I compare it to the Wildcat offense in the NFL. If you don’t know it’s coming and/or you don’t have adequate time to prepare for a gimmick like that, you’re going to be thrown off by it. Over the course of an NBA season, team are not going to have time to switch their entire offensive philosophy up in preparation of playing one team with a gimmick defense. In the playoffs, though, when you see the same team again and again and you have much more time to prepare, teams are going to make a conscious effort to target your weaknesses. This is what the Bucks did after the first two games in the first round series.

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If you get 20 to 30 minutes out of Shaq, I’ll go and bail out that skank that brought Damon down and marry her on Jerry Springer!

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JeJe

I appreciate you pre-facing you response re: Your blank statement, re: “Josh refusing to drive to Suwanee to practice FT’s with Mark Price, because the drive time is too far?”. With, an acknowledgment that, that comment may have been made by someone else! That was very – Rich of you!

And, yes, I will say it, that: LYING-SERUM has been on a rampage and posting bombastic statements using MY user name for the past 72 hours, but today is not over yet? I strongly advise he refrain immediately!
Or, it will get real UGLY up in here!

About josh: I want to make sure I got this straight.

You co-worker’s Brother said Mark Jackson told him and he told his Brother who in turn told You and then you told the ENTIRE BLOG NATION of countless people as though it were a FACT?

With all due respect Sir, but that is a whole LOT of telling! We played a game in 3rd grade, called Telephone.
Have you ever played that game? It’s when you have 30 kids in a class room and person #1 tells person #e something and when it gets to person #30? The story has wings and can FLY!
The classic definition of GOSSIP!

Mark Price is on payroll as a shooting coach, why didn’t HE drive to Marietta, GA?
Why did he betray the Man- Law of team confidentiality?
How do you know, if it’s true that it only occurred on one ocassion?

As for Rondo spending his money to fly to Suwanee to paractice his FT’s ?
How did that work for his game – LOL! Didn’t Josh fly to Houston and work with Hakeem Olajuwan and
Calvin Murphy to improve his low post moves and ball handling skills as well?

I enjoy most of your posts and exuberance to tell your story, but before taking a sledge hammer to

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Anyone see JJ’s Agent saying Joe is actively trying to recruit players here.. The Hawks dont have cap room but obviously in a sign-and-trade would work.. For someone like LeBron to come here.. we’d have to give up Josh, probably Jamal, some picks and idk what else but the Hawks would be the best team in the East lol

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lou hudson,

What is your source???

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Shaq turned out D-Wade and Kobe just think what he would do to the young virgin hawks.

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“Mark Price is on payroll as a shooting coach, why didn’t HE drive to Marietta, GA?”

BECAUSE HIS SHOOTING ACADEMY IS IN SUWANEE, GENIUS

I SAID RONDO CAME TO WORK ON SHOOTING IN GENERAL, NOT FT SHOOTING.

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“What about the assistant coaches”? Wondering the same thing. Better not see Tyrone Hill and the white guy with the beard on the sidelines this year. Seriously.

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I think the starting core stays the same. I can’t see them trading smoove or horford. I don’t know what to think about zaza though. Dude used to be o.k but last year he kept fumbling the ball and he wasn’t on the boards like he was the last few seasons. That’s who they need to think about trading along with bibby.

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MC-thanks for all of the info. You have mad skills.
What’s the Hawks thought process for the PG position? Will they even think about getting one from free agency? What about Raymond Felton? Too expensive? Too much to have 3 PG’s on the roster? Wat say you?

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mike bibby with his liabilities has been very expensive “glue” myk. seems there were other choices missed or mismanaged.

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Marquis Teague=Niceness

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Trade Bibby and Mo for Devin Harris. If they want zaza they can have him too.

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I like shaq for a year. He’s still Dwight Howards kyptonite.

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Woodson was trash.

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Mark Price was only under contract during the season. During the summer, he’s not under contract and can coach whoever he wants, so they typically come to him.

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MB also wasn’t given enough credit for his rebounds either. most of ‘em mighta been easy but at least he went and got ‘em LOL like i said i really hope Drew proves himself be light years smarter than Woodson…a lil bit smarter ain’t gonna cut it!!!

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So did the players get along or not in the Playoffs? Joe said they did, but Horf said otherwise…

FIRE WOODY

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Josh Childress’ Twitter

@Brotha2ThaNite congrats on what? I have a small tear in my hamstring. It happened in the final against Barcelona. I’m good though.

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myk i got tired of looking at them. there was no ball movement and the tough defense just wasnt there. they regressed during the season rather than improve, so i quit going and gave tix away when i did i often couldnt get takers. myk they often didnt show up against inferior teams and only seemed to rise up for the better teams by individual effort.

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J from the A,

One reason Bibby’s turnovers were so low is because he would cross half court, give the ball to JJ (or Jamal), and get out of the way. He doesn’t penetrate (79 free throw attempts all year), and he rarely draws double teams.

One thing I like about Hinrich, is he plays much better defense than Bibby. And if Hinrich is playing with Jamal, Hinrich could actually guard some SG or PGs depending on the matchup. But if we get Hinrich, I think we will have to trade Bibby. Will Washington take Bibby and Chills for Hinrich and another piece?

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I think the hawks are set on teague starting. So bobby had to know this was coming. They probably told him that they would give him a big contract to set him straight money wise but he has to come off the bench. The hawks don’t need shaq at all. Cuz he is childish and only good in 5- 10 minutes spans.

Camby knees are bad, so he needs to stay where he at. Oden sucks and the other guy didn’t do nothin, he’s Jus Like the back up centers we already got. Get David lee.. traid childress and zaza … please trade zaza. He do too many stupid mistakes. And is lazy.

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Possible trade with the Warriors:

Warriors get-Bibby(PG @ $5.5M) and Marvin(SF @ $6.7M) Total Salaries-$12.2M

Hawks get-CJ Watson(PG @ $1.25M), Anthony Randolph(PF @ $1.9M), and Andris Biedrins(C @ $9M) Total Salaries-$12.15M

The Warriors say that Beidrins is not in their future plans. Here’s their chance to move him, get a starting SF to go with the trade, and get a shooter off the bench that can back up PG & SG!

The Hawks get a back up PG, a back up PF, and a back up center.

Hawks line up:
PG-Teague/Watson
SG-JJ/Crawford, Crawford2
SF-Childress/Evans
PF-Josh/Randolph
C-Horford/Biedrins/Zaza

After signing Childress, the Hawks stay under the L. tax. I like this line up!!!

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Hoops – can we trade Evans for a bigger SF that really crashes the boards? If so I’d buy what you’re selling…assuming the numbers work out.

What are the rules for trading for future draft picks with teams that’ll most likely be lottery bound?

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Hype Je Je? Where’s a presser from Joe discussing what he learned from his meetings with Sund and Drew, who he wants to see on our team, who he’d consider trading, how the new coaching system will affect his game, ect. We need to hear from Drew and Joe! Details and plans – give us hope!

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Fundamentals,

With that line up, I would think LD would use JJ @ Sf some. That would help with your size concern @ SF.

Evans can be traded. He would be an attractive piece for a team with cap concerns because of his expiring contract.

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JeJe

* Mark Price. (Sorry) was multi-tasking earlier. LOL.

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Al Horford SUCKS defensively, he is no where near the defender Smoove is, nor will he ever be.. lol @ smoove not wanting to shoot ft’s . When he works harder than EVERY player on this team to improve his game ever off-season. Of course you want to believe that statement because it’s something negative. doesn’t make it true @ all..

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Fundamentals,

The Hornets might be willing to trade J. Posey for Evans just so they could drop his $6.4M contract and pick up Evans $2.5M expiring contract. The reason that the Hawks would probably not be willing to do that trade is it would put them into L. tax if they did the trade with GS that I just proposed.

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@ raybud…
Don’t get started on Garret, the 2nd easiest way to get cursed out and demeaned on here is to bring him up…

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Fundamentals,

Lee is a PF that is being forced into playing C. We already have one of those in Horford. Even if the Hawks wanted Lee, I don’t know of a combination of Hawks players that NBA trade rules would allow to be traded to NY that they would accept for Lee.

We need a C, not another PF.

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My panties dont smell as bad as they use too. Not since I sprayed them.

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It appears at least one person in the national media seems to think Shaq to Atlanta could happen, even if he isn’t actually a reporter.

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I know they would have to trade him I just used the word drop because of his performance last season. I don’t think he would be worth much if we trade him.

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I heard the Warriors didnt want Crawford because after they saw what they had in Curry, they were trying to get rid of players that needed the ball in their hands. Doing the same with Ellis in the near future. Makes me wonder if JJ and Crawford will affect Teague’s development of becoming a true pg?(Whatever that is lol!) Just a thought. Our depth at sg, Teague controlling the offense, and guarding the opposing pg,s, should all factor in keeping JJ fresh for the long haul. Of course, things can change if Teague struggles. Back to Iso Joe. Noooooooooooo! lol! Cant wait to see the new offense regardless. So used to dribble,dribble,dribble. lol!

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I’m gonna miss you, Al. Once joe Johnson is officially back on board, I’ll be history as a Hawks fan.

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Somebody needs to grow up…….

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Doc,

Bibby’s price isn’t that bad. The deal breaker is his third year guarantee. Nobody was offering him a 3 year deal last year, but for some reason, Rick gave him 3. And now its very hard to trade him.

Najeh,

I like the Jamal to Portland for Pryzbilla and Rudy Fernandez. The only drawback is his injury history. However, he is an expiring, so if he doesn’t work out, he can be traded at the deadline, or potentially replaced next off-season.

I also like the Marvin and Mo Evans for Biedrins and another piece (Wright or Randolph). Biedrins is expensive (4 years, $36 mil), but at least we still keep Josh and Jamal (who could still be traded for other pieces). And then we still have the mid-level and the bi-annual. And we can do a S&T for Chills.

There are cheaper SFs available than what Chills and Marvin will make.

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I have always just read the comments and never replied, but, because I always have a strong opinion, I have decided to chime in on this topic. Here is a list of the NBA centers from last year not including Horford…

Dwight Howard *
Al Jefferson
Tim Duncan*
Brooke Lopez
Andrea Bargnani
David Lee
Mehmet Okur
Emeka Okafor
Andrew Bynum***
Andres Biedrins
Nene***
Marcus Camby*
Greg Oden***
Kendrick Perkins
Jermaine O’Neal***
Samuel Dalembert
Shaq*
Spencer Hawes
Chris Kaman
Andrew Bogut*
Joakim Noah
Chris Anderson
Tyson Chandler
Brad Miller
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Brendan Haywood
Channing Frye
Roy Hibbert
Hasheem Thabeet
Nenad Krstic
David Anderson
Deandre Jordan
Fabrecio Aberto
Maurice Speights…..

DNP Yao Ming*

Now everyone sees the list before them…IMHO I think that save for 3 possibly 4 guys on that list, I would go to battle with AL HORFORD anytime of the day to oppose another CENTER on that list…I applied an asterisk next to the CENTERS that I would take…And 3 of those are on the down side of their career and may have maximum 3 years left..
I also applied 3 asterisks next to the centers that may have a better upside but would not want because they are so very injury prone..

Now you gentleman name a CENTER that is not on that list that the HAWKS can acquire that would do better than HORFORD against these centers??? …P.S. by the way, Amare Stoudamire don’t wanna be a CENTER..

I keep reading and hearing—- Get a CENTER, but where is he?
Honestly, if that CENTER is on MARS, I don’t think he has eligibility yet….

lets getem all !!!! we always complain that we need a center … lol

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So any news on the coaching staff or summer league team?

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Sign horford and trade him lets get joe that real center. There are a couple of teams interest. couple that with marvin and a draft pick and we should be able to get true starting center. I think think we can begin talking about competing at the next level

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Siler is on the Nets summer league roster.

http://www.nba.com/summerleague2010/players/garret_siler/index.html

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If I recall, it was Nate Robinson who hurt the Hawks, not David Lee.

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lol,

c’était une plaisanterie drôle, juste comme moi obtenant rédigé par le sund de rick

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mary you know a aint gonna uck that skank hole of yours so quit begging be itch. I wish viagra would work for a dinosaur like my old assse. All that lickin and Dmaryb still couldnt get me up. Im lame and limp like my b!tch horford

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hawks offer shaq a contract????

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/07/05/shaq-weighing-offer-from-hawks-to-join-johnson/?ncid=txtlnkusspor00000002&xid=si_nba

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LOVING these rumors.

Trade Marvin/Bibby/maybe Smoove for a PG, bring Shaq in.

But a question:

If Joe said he’d recruit bigtime FAs,

1) HOW can he do that if they will mostly sign by Thursday when he signs?

2) WHY wouldn’t he take less? Does he want to be the #1 option for sure?
Makes no sense how he is the #1 guy here but woulda sacrificed that for similar salary in CHI or NYK. He should’ve done what Dirk did (Dirk is WAY better than Joe and is quite a bit older)

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The funny thing about this is that Kenny Smith and Charles Barkley called this 5 years ago — they used to clown on the Hawks saying they will make the playoffs in 2010 because that’s when Shaq becomes a free agent.

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JeJe

Joe is 28 and Dirk is 32.

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I am not opposed to trading Smoove, but they better be careful what they wish for if they do. Smoove may not be a #1 option offensively but his single-handed impact on the game in every way other than scoring is extremely hard, if not impossible, to replace. If they trade him, they better get a blue-chip All Star in return. If they are considering trading him just to make room for Shaq, who is way past his prime and won’t be here in 2 years anyway, such a move would make picking Marvin #2 overall look extremely smart by comparison.

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Go head Rick. Get my Boy Shaq in here and while you’re at it trade Josh for Monte Ellis straight up.

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CP3 is the kind of legit All Star for whom I wouldn’t mind trading Josh, assuming his knee issues are in the past. Carmelo Anthony is also acceptable.

It would be bittersweet, though, acquiring CP3 and not being able to see him throw alley-oops to Josh…

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J.J.M.

Honestly . . if I’m the ASG . . I’d give Shaq the entire MLE.

I not only do it from a basketball standpoint, I’ll do it from a P.R. standpoint.

The whole reason why Cleveland went after Shaq, is so that he could go up against Dwight Howard. But because Cleveland got bounced by Boston, he never got the chance to really prove his worth.

You gotta pay to play in this league. And sometimes, you have to take risks. I’d rather waste 12 million on Shaq for the next 2 years, than to trade for a scrub like Biedrins.

Shaq’s PER 36 MINUTES numbers were still impressive . . which kind of shows just how weak the center position is in the NBA these days. Shaq is obviously on his last legs, but he’s still better than most centers.

18.5 ppg
10.3 rebs
1.8 blks
2.3 asst

57% FG
50% FT

From a P.R. standpoint . . while Shaq isn’t a superstar anymore, he’s still a superstar name. This is the guy who ATL would come out to see, even for 20 minutes a night. And needless to say, the potential for revenue if you bring Shaq in, could really be a shot in the arm for this team.

Plus you add a major personality to a team in need of an identity.

We acquire Shaq . . and all of this ish talking that the national media is doing, would abruptly come to a halt. They would at least give us the benefit of the doubt now, instead of constantly hating on us. That move may also increase our national TV time as well.

What do we have to lose? Make an offer to him . . send JJ, Smoove, and Al to try to sell the team to him . . along with 5 of Atlanta’s best “exotic dancers” . . and see if we can’t bring him in the mix.

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If Shaq does come here, I hope bigdave’s nickname “The Big Bird” catches on.

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Does anyone know when Larry Drew was an assistant for the Lakers? Maybe he knows Shaq from then

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I dont get why we trade for chris paul? thats saying you dont believe in jeff teague and thats just wasting draft picks on PGs and why the hell is josh always in trade rumors when hes our best player

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jeje go hang yo self for that one

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J.J.M.

Melo and CP3 ARE AVAILABLE despite what their management says. We need a point guard and a center.

That’s amazing! We’ve needed a point guard and center for 6 years, and we still need them!

Bibby is garbage and Teague doesn’t have a jumpshot yet. If he is like Rondo, he won’t have a jumpshot for a while

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LMAO

I just searched Twitter for “Shaq” and I saw this:

“The Atlanta Hawks signing Shaq is like finally getting with the finest girl at your high school 15 years, 3 kids and 2 baby daddies later”

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JeJe

I thought I was the only one who thought it is good to have a good shooting point guard.

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Girls do look good in jersey dresses though.

http://tinyurl.com/6juzpu

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Northcyde

CP3 has not played since he had a complete removal of one of the meniscus in his left knee.
He was supposed to return in 6 to 8 weeks, but never did.

I see visions of speedy claxton with him for now. Bone on Bone in the most complicated and weight bearing, pivot, joint. In the body. Very serious stuff!

I fear he may need micro-fracture surgery in the very near future.
That’s a Year to recover, maybe longer. I wouldn’t trade Josh for him just yet.
Marvin & Jamal & Zsa – maybe?

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At Najeh, but she is still effective

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@JSS–who were you thinking of? Shaq? Z? Haywood? Bring in Garret and allow him to develop. If i’m not mistaken, Ben Wallace wasn’t even drafted and he eventually became a beast on the defensive in. We need size and depth. Zaza isn’t enough. Morris isn’t enough, Joe Smith isn’t enough anymore. Jason Collins, well, enough said. Bring in the youth and see how it work. The Hawks should have done that with Siler vice Mario West.

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# Raybud…
You don’t have to convince me… I said that last spring and summer… Nire and Vava savaged me for the proposition, I’m over it…

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