Atlanta Hawks: Still waiting on J.J. (Sat. Update: Hawks confident, patient)
SAT. UPDATE: Despite the rumblings about J.J. bolting to team up with another All-Star , the Hawks remain confident he will accept their max contract offer.
There hasn’t been discussion about a sign-and-trade because Joe still hasn’t given Atlanta any indication he doesn’t want to re-sign. The Hawks expected the process would take a few days so, from their perspective, nothing has changed. Hawks blog legend Sekou agrees that everything is still on track for an agreement.
Note to my blog people: I’ve been trying to avoid posting new blogs unless there’s a significant development in the story so you can continue your comment threads. If you are interested in more frequent updates/chatter/discussion, you can follow me on Twitter. If you are not on Twitter, you should be. . . .
The apparent hesitation by J.J. to accept the Hawks’ six-year, maximum contract offer has led to speculation that perhaps he’s waiting to see what happens with LeBron and other top free agents before committing to Atlanta.
(UPDATE: Chris Sheridan of ESPN.com reports that J.J. “wants to see how things shake out with the other maximum-salary free agents” before making a decision. He quotes a source saying the chances of J.J. accepting the offer are “slightly” better than 50-50.)
SI’s Ian Thomsen reported earlier today that J.J. and Stoudemire remained “open-minded” about taking less money to sign with the Knicks if LeBron goes there (though now it looks like Amare already is committed to New York) . Under that scenario, which Thomsen described as a “longshot”, either J.J. or Amare (or both) would have to take even less than the non-Bird max to play with LeBron in New York since the Knicks don’t have the cap space to give all three max deals.
Meanwhile, the Hawks continue to wait on Joe. There still have been no indications that he won’t accept their offer. His agent says Joe is “comfortable” and “happy” in Atlanta. In their last meeting, the Hawks reiterated their desire to offer him $27 million more than what he can get on the market. So I’m not sure what’s the hold up.
If you are still hoping for a J.J. sign-and-trade, the transaction would have to happen all at once. When the signing period opens on July 8, the Hawks couldn’t sign J.J. and then trade him later in a separate transaction. Under CBA rules, if J.J. re-signs with the Hawks he’s not eligible to be traded for 90 days or until Dec. 15, whichever comes later.
MC
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304 comments Add your comment
darrell starks
July 3rd, 2010
5:20 pm
Like 2 pac said f$$k the media they always twisting your words.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!
northcyde
July 3rd, 2010
5:31 pm
cdog . . . no offense man . . but your entire post is living in fantasy land.
First . . name the center that you want to come to Atlanta . . and see if you can afford him. Don’t just throw out that we “need a center”. We all know that. Now name a person you want, and how much you’re willing to pay for him.
Second . . we CAN’T get Lebron, Wade, David Lee, without trading for them. That has nothing to do with a JJ contract. Lebron and Wade aren’t coming to Atlanta without JJ here. And David Lee would ask . . “how much playing time will I get, seeing that you already have Al Horford and Josh Smith here?” Lee plays center, but he’s less of a center than Al Horford is.
Like I said in my last post . . . if you don’t understand that by re-signing JJ, we could actually et more valuable pieces back for him in a trade at a later date, than trading or letting him go now, I don’t know what to say.
You people are living in a fantasy world, thinking we can just bring in Lebron or Amare or Wade. Especially when they have expressed NO DESIRE WHATSOEVER to play in Atlanta. If that was the case, every team in the league should be begging for the services of Lebron, instead of just 4 or 5 teams.
LOL . . it’s party time for me. I’ll let you guys worry about the JJ situation till Monday.
northcyde
July 3rd, 2010
5:33 pm
Najeh . . I don’t know if you saw my post before the last one, but it concerns the Hawks transactions since 2000. They say my post “is under moderation”, so I don’t know if the board can see it.
2004 – 2010 transactions
http://www.nba.com/hawks/news/Transactions.html
deb1820
July 3rd, 2010
5:34 pm
Should the Hawks try and trade for DeAndre Jordan of the Clippers? He’s a nice young center that could be Horford’s backup or he could start. What do you all think?
northcyde
July 3rd, 2010
5:34 pm
2000 – 2003 transactions
http://www.nba.com/hawks/news/Hawks_Transactions_Archive.html
From what I can see, outside of Speedy Claxton and Stephen Jackson, every decent player Atlanta has acquired has either been via the draft, or via a trade.
northcyde
July 3rd, 2010
5:35 pm
Flip was a decent free agent signing as well. But we got maximum value out of Flip, seeing that nobody wanted him either.
LOL . . now I’m gone. Ya’ll take it easy.
D21
July 3rd, 2010
5:38 pm
“northcyde
July 3rd, 2010
2:21 pm
People are dumb . . and too damn emotional when it comes to this.
If we pull the offer, we are definitely limited to MLE type players. We wouldn’t even be able to execute a sign and trade for somebody.”
???
Maybe we would not succeed to make a sign-&-trade, or don’t want to do it because can add salaries, but I am sorry, we can make sign-&-trade.
Go ask Houston what they are trying to do to get Bosh.
It’s a sign-&-trade, offering Battier and.or other players exactly like ATL can do by offering Marvin+Crawford for Bosh.
If both TOR & Bosh agree, Bosh is a Hawk.
I am not saying it will happen, but at this moment, I think that some Hawks fans would like to hear that at least ASG are trying to do trade like that.
But no, we hear from HOU, from other team like BOS wanting Brad Miller, but nothing from ATL except a pseudo Shaq rumor certainly coming more than a bad interpretation while Sund was talking about signing Jermaine O’Neal.
This is the world of Hawks fans, and the silence could be justify if the job was done, but in the end, it’s always better job on team that are already better than ATL.
terrell
July 3rd, 2010
5:39 pm
Blah, blah, blah. lol!
mc
July 3rd, 2010
5:42 pm
i know alot of people dont want joe back i think it will hurt the hawk especially on the back in of the deal.atl. really need to move joes contract. but if they cant marvin and bibby have to for maybe the warriors center a. beidris he double double guy who can play c or pf. so if the hawks would sign maybe j. oneal they would have a lot better team al at center josh pf j-chill at sf jj sg and jamal at pg with j oneal bendris teageu rookie crawford and mo all of the bench
mc
July 3rd, 2010
5:46 pm
i like that ded1820 jordan is a young center that is acually get alot better
Najeh Davenpoop
July 3rd, 2010
5:51 pm
“From what I can see, outside of Speedy Claxton and Stephen Jackson, every decent player Atlanta has acquired has either been via the draft, or via a trade.”
Joe Johnson was also technically a free agent signing. He was a restricted free agent when he joined the Hawks. The main criticism Billy Knight received for giving up 2 first-rounders and Boris Diaw for him was that he could have just signed him outright without giving Phoenix any compensation, since it seemed unlikely at the time that Phoenix would match the Hawks’ offer.
Either way, the underlying premise of your argument is that players don’t want to come to ATL because of the Hawks’ history, and as a result the Hawks have to rely on re-signing their own players and drafting good talent in order to be competitive. Joe Johnson voluntarily signed that deal with the Hawks and chose to come here. He alone directly contradicts your argument.
You seem to only be citing examples from the past decade. Dikembe Mutombo came here as an unrestricted free agent in 1996 too.
And regardless, the fact that the Hawks have been fairly successful trading for good players over the last 20 years probably plays a part in the relatively few free agent acquisitions they have made. If a team can accumulate its core players via trading and drafting, they are less likely to spend big money on free agents, since most of their cap room and minutes would go towards the trade-acquired players. This is the position the Hawks are in right now. Even if LeBron James came up to the Hawks right now and said he wants to play here, factors outside of the Hawks’ control — namely, Cleveland’s interest in executing a sign-and-trade — thwart the Hawks’ ability to acquire him.
Jon Feichter
July 3rd, 2010
5:55 pm
ISO Joe needs to go. Anything close to a max contract for a player that crumbles on the biggest stage (the playoffs) is a waste. The money can be spent more effectively elsewhere. My question is, why aren’t the Hawks pursuing other free agents? Why focus exclusively on ISO?
Clyde
July 3rd, 2010
5:59 pm
Exactly Jon Fleichter. The Hawks are desperate.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 3rd, 2010
6:23 pm
Just for comparison’s sake, here are the core players on a handful of good teams and the way they were acquired:
Boston: Pierce (drafted), Allen (traded for), Garnett (traded for), Perkins (drafted), Davis (drafted), Rondo (drafted)
LA Lakers: Bryant (traded for on draft day), Gasol (traded for), Bynum (drafted), Odom (traded for), Fisher (originally drafted; signed in free agency under special circumstances)
Orlando: Howard (drafted), Carter (traded for), Lewis (acquired via sign-and-trade), Nelson (drafted), Redick (drafted)
Utah: Williams (drafted), Boozer (signed in free agency), Kirilenko (drafted), Okur (signed in free agency), Miles (drafted), Matthews (signed as undrafted free agent)
Denver: Anthony (drafted), Martin (acquired via sign-and-trade), Nene (traded for on draft day), Billups (traded for), Smith (traded for), Lawson (traded for on draft day)
Houston: Yao (drafted), Battier (traded for), Brooks (drafted), Scola (drafted), Ariza (signed in free agency)
Dallas: Nowitzki (traded for on draft day), Butler (traded for), Haywood (traded for), Kidd (traded for), Beaubois (drafted), Dampier (signed in free agency), Marion (traded for)
Atlanta: Johnson (acquired via sign-and-trade), Smith (drafted), Horford (drafted), Bibby (traded for), Williams (drafted), Teague (drafted), Childress (drafted)
Among the players above, only the ones in bold actually chose to be on their current teams, and made it there either by signing an unrestricted free agent contract or by negotiating a sign-and-trade to their desired location. In the cases of Rashard Lewis, Mehmet Okur, and Carlos Boozer, each was a second-round pick and as a result their original team didn’t have the ability to go over the mid-level to keep them (this is also why Gilbert Arenas left the Warriors for the Wizards). Kenyon Martin and Joe Johnson both got much better offers from other teams than their own, and their own team was content to sign-and-trade them rather than pay what they were asking. Ariza and Dampier both signed as unrestricted free agents, and Fisher intentionally went back to LA due to his daughter’s illness.
The point is, contrary to northcyde’s assertion, there is nothing unusual about a team rarely signing impact players in free agency. The way the NBA is structured, it’s quite rare that a quality starter will be allowed to become an unrestricted free agent. And compared to other elite teams of prestige in the NBA, the Hawks have really done no worse in wooing quality free agents to join them. In fact, of the players in bold mentioned above, Joe Johnson is easily the best one.
ryan
July 3rd, 2010
6:29 pm
Amare is damaged goods and with the Knicks roster i just don’t see Joe going New York . Joe wants to play in Atlanta or Dallas were he is comfortable.
Wabe
July 3rd, 2010
6:39 pm
Najeh, northcyde, and O’Brien…
Keep preachin’ guys. I read some of these post and don’t even bother responding because it’s not even worth trying to explain to some of these people that JJ leaving doesn’t mean we’re open to sign other big name FA’s…
As northcyde said, at this point, it’s JJ or bust. I think that’s the best way of putting it.
At this point, are you confident in an ownership group that doesn’t seem to have a Plan B? At least not one that they’ve bothered mentioning. If JJ leaves, you’ll see the Hawks scrambling to sign mediocore FA’s to play as stop-gaps – these other big name FA’s aren’t even considering ATL, so I’m not sure why you’d want Sund to even waste his time extending offers to some of these guys.
Please keep Wade, LBJ, Bosh, and even Stoudamire out of this convo. What can the Hawks possibly offer these guys that other teams in bigger markets can’t?
truthspitter
July 3rd, 2010
6:42 pm
“This year a $100,000 aint nothin to brag bout, give me a $100,000,000 and Ima cash out”. Yeah hopefully, T.I. buys this team. On the other hand, I like having Joe back and would just like to add some players and subtract some.
1. Jamal Crawford+Mo Evans for Andries Biedrins and Anthony Randolph
2. Jamal Crawford+Marvin Williams for ”
3. Jamal Crawford for Andries Biedrins
4. Sign Travis Outlaw
5. Sign Fesenko
I would love to have Biedrins and Randolph that would give us our version of Lamar Odom and a starting C. I think Jamal’s expiring contract along with Marvin or Mo’s expiring contract could get that done
Wabe
July 3rd, 2010
6:45 pm
I’m no basketball guru, and even I know that the likelihood of the Hawks aquiring another guy with JJ-like talent is slim to none. Before you bash the guy, understand that without him, the Hawks are still mediocore at best.
ISO JOE might not get the Hawks a ring…
But without ISO JOE, this team wouldn’t have even seen the playoffs the past couple of seasons.
Sure, if JJ comes back, there are things that must be tweaked. But, please think twice about where this franchise will be without their go-to-guy? He may not be KOBE, or LEBRON, or WADE, but he’s a 5-time All-Star, and he averaged 21 PPG, 5 ASSISTS, and 5 BOARDS this past season. Name a player that the Hawks have a legitimate shot at signing that’ll give you that kind of production.
drmaryb
July 3rd, 2010
7:45 pm
MC
Please delete the imposter POSTS – ” Who is The Village Idiot with 20 user I’d’s.”
IT is posting under my name today because I refuse to blog with him.
The times are:
1042 AM
1119 AM
721 PM
drmaryb
July 3rd, 2010
8:03 pm
Village Idiot
You have been reported to the AJC blog administrator. I just called the PR department and your
ISP address is currently under investigation.
Have a Nice Day!
To everyone else, I am going on Vacation Now and will return to blog on Monday or Tuesday!
Happy 4th of July! Have Fun & Be Safe! The Po-Po is out in full forces – don’t drink & drive!
Let’s Go Joe!
Mmmmwah! ;-0
Big Ump
July 3rd, 2010
8:31 pm
Truth Serum
They been keeping me on the field lately in and out of town. When I get a chance I always check out some of the great post that you and Big Ray be posting on the blog. There some great bloggers on board and a few who don’t have any clue at all. But in my opinion you and Big Ray the best of the best.
Hoops
July 3rd, 2010
8:34 pm
Open your minds to this trade——-
The Nuggetts have a big problem. They want to extend Carmello right now, but he is watching all of this free agency. He wants to get his money before next summer when guaranteed contracts are probably going to go away.
The Hawks should try to trade Josh and Bibby for Carmello (the contracts work). The Nuggetts will get something for Carmello instead of losing him next summer for nothing. The Hawks should get Carmello to sign & trade the extension.
Ken Strickland
July 3rd, 2010
8:55 pm
People seem to think JJ can just go to any team he wants or to any teams that wants him. First, the team has to have the cap space to sign him to a contract. Secondly, if the team doesn’t have the cap space, they have to do a sign and trade to get him, and both he and the Hawks have to go along with that.
If the Hawks decide the team after JJ doesn’t have anything they want in return, or they don’t want to lose him, especially to that team, they can just say no and the deal if off as long as they are short on cap space. Before any team considers offering JJ anywhere near a max contract, they have to be sure they have a commitment from either Lebron, Staudemire and/or DWade.
No other team but the Hawks would offer JJ a max contract without at least one of the other top tier FA’s on board. While he can certainly make a team better, he’s just not the type of player that can carry an OFF or team by himself, like Lebron or DWade.
In order for him to go to the Knicks and play with one of the other top FA’s, he’d have to either take a huge pay cut, or persuade the Hawks to do a sign and trade. I don’t see that happening because the Knicks, who weren’t very talented to begin with, have gotten rid of most of what they did have to get enough cap to sign a couple of max contracts. What do they have left that would entice the Hawks to accommodate a sign and trade that can’t happen without their consent, since the Knicks wouldn’t have the cap space to sign him out right.
With JJ, a starting quality center to back up AHorford, and LDrews new OFF/DEF systems, the Hawks would be a top team in the East. Without JJ, they would be a middle of the pack playoff team, just like they were when they won 47gms.
Ken Strickland
July 3rd, 2010
9:05 pm
HOOPS-Scoring wasn’t our problem, even with Woodson’s limited OFF and dependence on ISO’s and jump shooting. We managed to tie the LA Lakers for 12th in scoring with 101.7PPG. Trading JSmith to add more scoring, while sacrificing DEF and rebounding, which were our major problems last yr, isn’t going to make the Hawks better.
Other than scoring a bunch of points, has CAnthony taken his team any further than JSmith(who can control a gm with his OFF and/or DEF)has taken the Hawks? If you’ll compare their stats, you’ll see that other than PPG(scoring),JSmith is better than CAnthony in virtually every other OFF/DEF category.
ryan
July 3rd, 2010
9:07 pm
Hoops i like that idea would be an equal trade hopefully have Joe then add Melllo now that would be an awesome team.
Fact checker
July 3rd, 2010
9:16 pm
actually the
12th lakers were 101.69
13th Hawks were 101.68
Luke Cage
July 3rd, 2010
9:17 pm
LOL at all you people that say get this guy or get that guy!!!!
1st off when was the last time a big name even considered coming to Atlanta?
2nd with this fairweather fan base that constantly bashes the best player, why would they?
3rd if a team realizes that a player isnt wanted buy his current team why would they give up their best player for that player when he is older than my guy and also my guy is better??
Its fun to make these fantasy trades but both teams have to feel they are bettering their team and not just trade players for just anything
raymond
July 3rd, 2010
10:01 pm
Wbhy offer a max deal to a guy who disses the Atlanta fans? Why are the Hawks not trying to get any of the other ( and better) free agent?
Fundamentals
July 3rd, 2010
10:09 pm
Who are Drew’s assistants and what does he want to help build his team? We’ve heard nothing?
ryan
July 3rd, 2010
10:14 pm
Ken Strickland Carmello Anthony and the Nuggets have gotten close to finals a few years ago. They do have a coach in George Carl who not going to coach much longer because of his health.
Dexter
July 3rd, 2010
10:15 pm
This guy does not have the it factor to carry us to a title, if he wants to wait and see what the other stars are doing, management should find a way to get him out of town on the first train leaving as I remember he did not show up for the second round and insulted our good fans when he was held accountable for his poor play.
dll
July 3rd, 2010
10:16 pm
Who are the assistant coaches?
BigTimeTechFan
July 3rd, 2010
10:17 pm
I hope we sign JJ, but I at such a high price does it hurt the Hawks changes of locking up Hortford after next year?
J Smith, Horford, J Johnson, Crawford is enough talent to win championship, ATL has big time talent all in their prime (Smith, Hortford just getting there next year) key is fitting all the role players.
If I’m Drew I would start and expect:
PF Horford (17 ppg, 11 rbs, 1.3 bs)
SF J Smith (18 ppg, 8 rb, 2+ bs, 2 steals)
C ZaZa ( 5 ppg, 9 rb, nice garbage player)
SG J Johnson ( 22 ppg, 5 rb, 5 ast, 2 steals)
PG J Teague ( 10 ppg, 8.5 ast, 2.5 steals)
Add 6th man Jamal Crawford who can get 20 any time you need it
Trade Bibby and Williams for PF/C like Perkins type, say Ronnie Turiaf from Golden State
Bench
Kinda
Finally did some research on Jordan Crawford, wow he has BIG TIME potential. I recomend everyone watch film on him, every bit as good on the floor as John Wall (now), not as fast and goes left all the time, but he’s a lot like Jamal Crawford, or smaller D-Wade. I know Wall was drafted on potential and point guards are at a premium but just say I think Crawford was a steal in the draft.
How did he make it so far down the draft???
dll
July 3rd, 2010
10:25 pm
If Joe really wanted to stay here the contact would be signed. Hello Atlanta Spirt. He does want your money he want out to New York. So take the 119 million sign sum role player a center, a forward and a guard
ryan
July 3rd, 2010
10:30 pm
BigTimeTechFan your right if we resign Joe and add one more piece like a Mello or Shaq and Jordan Crawford might be a steal i beleave the Hawks can get to the 3rd round.
Dr.Phil
July 3rd, 2010
10:41 pm
Who cares?
JeJe
July 3rd, 2010
10:55 pm
The Joe contract obviously sucks,
but:
1) we have a new coach who might actually know what an offense is. While I believe that a lot of what Drew said is fluff (how he will give Marvin a role in the system [yet Marvin is being shopped] or that he has full faith in Teague [even though we are rumored to be interested in Duhon]), I think Joe will get easier baskets in a new system. Plus, he shows up for the big regular season home games. We need to somehow get him to play the same consistently in the playoffs
FIRE SUND
JeJe
July 3rd, 2010
11:11 pm
I think David Lee is not getting enough mention in this LBJ/DW3/Bosh drama. Lee costs much less than Bosh’s overconfident @$$ and is just as efficient in my opinion. Lee and Boozer are both a bit cheaper (Lee much cheaper) than Boozer or Amare and should be sought after by Chicago or Cleveland.
Also, I will be pissed if any teams deos a S&T for Deng. BOYCOTT CHICAGO’S LBJ/DW/BOSH plan
JeJe
July 3rd, 2010
11:12 pm
The greatest thing that could happen to this team is if the ASG can sell the Thrashers. With Joe back at the max, we are only at 68M or so. Really, we just need to go into the LT, add 2 players, and this team will be in the ECF and beyond
IT’S TIME TO SPEND MONEY. SIGN SHAQ JUST FOR THE PURPOSE OF FILLING THE STANDS
FIRE SUND
True Atlanta Fan
July 3rd, 2010
11:21 pm
MC,
I know everyone has included CP3 and Melo in crazy trade scenarios but what teams have actually tried to go after these big names? From what I see on ESPN, NBA TV yahoo the attention has mainly been placed on Wade, LBJ and Bosh but I have not really heard any reports that teams have contacted the Nuggets and Hornets? It seems logical that the teams that don’t end up with these three will be looking for a plan B. Why not beat these teams to the punch by at least contacting them?
rusty
July 3rd, 2010
11:27 pm
northcyde your a windbag who is full of yourself. always loved woody & jj. always hated jc& jt. you & woody have a lot in common,dumbos
macaroni tony
July 3rd, 2010
11:43 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqEMxVuL9kk&feature=related
macaroni tony
July 3rd, 2010
11:44 pm
this is what JJ once said, I just think you could have pick better words in the playoffs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMx8xWg7_rI&feature=fvw
Simpdawg
July 3rd, 2010
11:49 pm
Here’s the latest on Joe from RealGM.com. Joe Johnson will make his free agency decision by the end of Sunday, according to two sources. Johnson will remain with the Hawks, “barring a major change.”
macaroni tony
July 3rd, 2010
11:55 pm
I loved this play,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rr926p32xWM&feature=related
Sund is going to have to go in the luxury tax to compete this year.
macaroni tony
July 4th, 2010
12:01 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fov82PYwqKs&feature=related
macaroni tony
July 4th, 2010
12:07 am
do Larry Drew have assistants yet, every team have reported there staff
bigdave
July 4th, 2010
12:18 am
Rasheed Wallace may re-think his decision to retire, according to a source.
Because Wallace had two years and $13 million (including $6.32 million next season) remaining on his deal when he retired, the Celtics have been looking into moving his contract to another team, which would then get the savings from Wallace’s cap number, in exchange for assets.
Read more: http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/67805/20100703/rasheed_might_rethink_retirement/#ixzz0sgSx03EV
hmmmmmmmmmm.. ….
N-Trigue
July 4th, 2010
12:20 am
i_am_soulstar
Yeah were waiting…but while we are we need to pursue at least Tyrus Thomas I like him better than Hayward and Chandler but if we don’t go after Thomas Chandler would be my 2nd option. Thomas would compliment Al and Josh very well. Shannon Brown a lot of folk don’t know about but I do the kid has been unfortunately put on good teams with superstars already at his position. When Kobe got hurt and he got some quality tick he was light out! He can shoot pass and penetrate. Both of them would instantly make us better along with newly aquired Jordan Crawford I think we would be ready to take it too the next level.
Grandad
July 4th, 2010
12:47 am
Cleveland’s presentation to LeBron:
per [Ric Bucher]
http://tinyurl.com/397plgr