Atlanta Hawks: Why ASG wants J.J. back (even for the max) UPDATE: Still waiting
UPDATE: Still no word on an agreement between J.J. and the Hawks. There’s been no indication that a deal won’t happen soon, with J.J.’s agent telling Marc Berman of the New York Post: “[H]e’s comfortable in Atlanta, happy, and they can offer him one more year.”
If J.J. likes the team and the money, all that’s left for the Hawks is to wait . . .
Talked to a person with insight into ASG’s rationale for offering J.J. a max contract. Basically, the plan is for the Hawks to re-sign J.J. and then add the necessary pieces to make them a true contender in the Eastern Conference.
Letting Joe leave would mean the Hawks would be worse in the short term, and the Hawks aren’t prepared to take that step back (the sign-and-trade options aren’t so appealing as to assure the team would maintain or improve). Once they made that philosophical decision, they took a look at the market for J.J. It quickly became clear that a few teams with cap space were ready to offer him the non-Bird max, so the Hawks made an aggressive play to re-sign him and hope that pays off with a commitment from J.J. soon.
Atlanta’s basketball people recognize that re-signing J.J. alone isn’t enough to improve the team (because, well, it’s basically the same team) and ASG is not opposed to exceeding the luxury-tax threshold to sign the right player. That’s a good thing since they don’t have much choice. If J.J. re-signs, the Hawks would have about $68 million in committed salaries when including Chill’s $4.8 million qualifying offer and Jordan Crawford’s rookie-scale salary. The NBA projects the tax threshold will be about $68 million, so the Hawks would be bumping up against it with only 10 11 players under contract.
That leaves a minimum of three two open roster spots. If Chills signs an offer sheet (Washington is interested) and the Hawks don’t match it (they haven’t ruled out matching or working out a sign-and-trade) then the committed salaries would be roughly $63 million with four three open roster spots. The Hawks want a bona fide center and ASG is open to using the mid-level exception to sign one. They also will explore trade opportunities, though there haven’t been any serious discussions about potential moves because Rick Sund is focused on J.J. right now.
Here is where the draft ties into ASG’s thinking. The Hawks traded down with the belief that Jordan Crawford (he needs a nickname, right?) would still be there at No. 27. They liked Kentucky’s Daniel Orton and would have taken him with the No. 31 pick but he went 29th to the Magic and they didn’t like any of the other centers available. So they sold the No. 31 pick for close to $3 million, and that money could help offset their potential luxury tax bill and also the hit they would take for missing out on the tax escrow rebate.
ASG rejects the view expressed by David Aldridge and others that a potential sell of the team influenced the max offer to J.J. Michael Gearon Jr. has insisted that he is not interested in selling his share. It’s expected that Steve Belkin eventually, finally, mercifully will be bought out and another investor will be sought. The Hawks are said to be one of the few teams with no debt on their franchise.
So a future sell of the team is not what’s driving the decision to max out J.J., according to the person privy to ASG’s plans. It’s about the belief that re-signing J.J., adding more pieces and improving their tactics and approach under L.D. will allow the Hawks to finally take the next step. As far as I know, all the speculation about using J.J. in a sign-and-trade is off base, perhaps a way for skeptical observers to rationalize what they see as a bad contract offer from the Hawks. It’s always possible, I guess, but I haven’t heard anything that leads me to believe they want to send J.J. along (a sign-and-trade obviously would require his permission) and everything to suggest they really want him back.
I understand why many of my blog people (and it seems pretty much everyone on the Interwebs) believe this was a bad move. As I said before, Hoopinion, Peachtree Hoops and HawksStr8Talk all offered reasonable, clear-headed explanations as to why they feel the Hawks should move on without J.J. if his price is too high. I’m just trying to offer you as much insight as possible into why ASG did made the decision to offer the max.
If J.J. re-signs and the plan doesn’t work, with J.J.’s contract becoming a burden and their other moves also falling flat, then the Hawks will be judged harshly.
MC
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
444 comments Add your comment
Truth-Serum
July 2nd, 2010
2:16 pm
Guys I got a test and a deadline. Its been nice.
Shout out to all the regulars and their respective fake names!
Truth-Serum
July 2nd, 2010
2:18 pm
doc
July 2nd, 2010
2:09 pm
Parting question, can the hawks find a way to sign Haywood with JJ’s contract in tow?
Mystikal
July 2nd, 2010
2:23 pm
@MC 2 questions: First, it doesn’t matter now but do you think JJ would of scoffed had hawks only offered $105 to $110 mil over 6 years? Was the full max also supposed to send a message that ASG is willing to spend now?
Secondly, ASG said they would spend for a “quality” starting center. Of whom i’ve seen there’s Brendan Haywood, Brad Miller, Jermaine O’neal, and a very aged Shaq. Between there being numerous teams with cap space left and the rarity of the position these guys are going to get a lot of money thrown there way. Are hawks really willing to overpay? Unless they try to hit up Lakers, Clippers, Magic, or one of the other teams with multiple centers?
G-Dot
July 2nd, 2010
2:24 pm
Dennis Scott just said on 2LiveStews what I have been saying for a while. The Hawks need Shaq. He said the Celtics and the Hawks are finalist for his services. Get it done Rick Sund.
Grandad
July 2nd, 2010
2:25 pm
Hey everyone:
This is for -Hatter-, myself, the crew, all.
*Look*
Al’s our MOST Important player.
Alot of you are aware that I coached for 30 + years.
I’m pullin’ that fact out *now for a reason.
stats are stats.
-but-
players ain’t just players.
G-dad quote:
“Some guys can play basketball
while others are basketball players.”
While you chew on that one.
I think LD has it figured out.
He can & will play J & A together
whether or not
they are paired
with
a [3] or a [5].
It don’t matter.
‘Cause they are basketball players.
&
Say what you want – so is Joe.
&
So is Jamal + *Teaguer *(per LD).
LD’s system will incorporate flexibility.
Really, whoever decided to put:
positions, #’s, & labels on real basketball players,
pretty near ruined the game.
It was not mean’t to be like football.
(orchestrated by coaches calling plays)
It was mean’t to be taught, then played,
free flowing and beautiful.
There I go gettin’ poetic again.
I hope yawl see my point.
By the way…I hear Battier’s available.
On G-dad’s scale of 1- 10: *10 bein’ a B-ball player.
Battier = “10″
Truth-Serum
July 2nd, 2010
2:27 pm
dap01
July 2nd, 2010
1:56 pm
unlike others I have no problem certifying or admitting error. My link is at the bottom the numbers are copied and pasted….. I did not see your link. (statement is incorrect. The shots attempted increased by 43%, the shots made increased by 50%.)
Al Horford
2008-09 22 ATL NBA 594 525
2009-10 23 ATL NBA 847 .551
For the mathematically challenged:
lets see
.551
-.525
______
. 026
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/horfoal01.html
bigdave
July 2nd, 2010
2:32 pm
MC on 790:
http://www.790thezone.com/instantreplay/Episodes.aspx?PID=1348
drmaryb
July 2nd, 2010
2:33 pm
Hubba – Bubba!
Ladies and Gentleman! I present to you the newest. Bubba – Crew inductee: drmaryb!
They let me in? When is my orientation? What shall I wear? Do these Prada Pumps and Purse make my BUTT look big? Yippee! (as a tear of joy rolls down her face), for the first time I really feel
like I belong.
I just want to Thank You Grand-Bubba, and all the fans that voted for me, most of all
I want to Thank God! Thank You … Thank You ….Thank You All!
O'Brien
July 2nd, 2010
2:35 pm
Truth,
Another point we agree on. I would like to see what horford looks like as a PF full time.
As for all star game vs all NBA or all NBA defense, what you’re saying is at the end of the season, coaches did not think horford was one of the 3 best centers in the league. And I agree with you there.
I don’t think horford is top 3 in centers, but despite his age, and only his third year in the league, I would rank him top 10.
Interestingly enough, according to MC, that was one of rick sund’s selling points to JJ. Come and play with a top 10 center and a top 10 power forward.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 2nd, 2010
2:36 pm
It looks like the Knicks are about to trump the Hawks when it comes to offering questionable contract. 5 years and $100 million for a guy who has already had two major surgeries, can’t play defense, or rebound is just insane. Joe’s deal doesn’t look all that out of proportion now.
Grandad
July 2nd, 2010
2:38 pm
G-Dot -> My feeling on Shaq;
Ambivalence:
“the coexistence within an individual of positive and negative feelings toward the same person, simultaneously drawing him in opposite directions.”
He would sell tickets!
bigdave
July 2nd, 2010
2:44 pm
another coach with Ga ties wont be considered..
Michael Curry is headed to Philly
doc
July 2nd, 2010
2:44 pm
truth in all honesty i doubt it because the market for him will be too rich is my guess. i dont think we have 8 to 10 mil to sign him and he may get it. it will be what he market allows which will be more than what we can offer him if my cap intuition is correct. nire, najeh or manny t might give us the exact number but i thought it was about 6 mil. what people dopnt understand is so much of this is out of our hands and why it is imperative to sign jj.
Grandad
July 2nd, 2010
2:45 pm
Najeh
Folks are sayin’ the same about rudy Gay.
loads o’ talent > no work ethic.
Sayin’ he wouldn’t work hard before,
now he’s got his money, uh oh.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 2nd, 2010
2:52 pm
Also, Al Horford fired his agent and now shares an agent with Joe, heading into his own contract year. Looks like he’s pretty pleased with what Joe’s agent got him.
Clyde
July 2nd, 2010
2:55 pm
Pump ya brakes drmaryb. You haven’t put in enough work to be down with the click yet.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 2nd, 2010
2:59 pm
Doc is right about Haywood. The Hawks’ chances of acquiring him went out the window yesterday when Channing Frye got $6 million annually from the Suns. That is more or less the mid level exception — which is the most the Hawks can pay to a free agent from another team — and almost certainly means Haywood will be looking for much more than that in free agency.
If the Hawks want a center who is worth more than the mid level in this market, they will have to make a trade to get him.
Clyde
July 2nd, 2010
2:59 pm
The Hawks need to learn a lesson from the Braves. Focus on player development and avoid high priced veterans.
Grandad
July 2nd, 2010
3:01 pm
Mary Ellen
“What shall I wear?”
*answer*
1st of all – cut off “Daisy Duke” ‘Liberty’ brand over-alls.
2nd – stiletto boots (white), however, cowboy boots optional.
3rd – sports brazier optional.
4th – calico shirt, unbuttoned, tied @ bottom.(mid-rift)
*what’s a rift? where’s the top rift? where’s the bottom rift?
G-dad’s a hound-Dawg.
Clyde
July 2nd, 2010
3:01 pm
Najeh how bout drafting a big instead of trading him away for cash and pay him a rookie salary and develop his talent.
Grandad
July 2nd, 2010
3:07 pm
Mary Ellen
I almost said;
we would have to clear it thru Clyde.
Whoops.
Overstepped my bounds.
He’s the “Grand Master”
then –> Ken Strickland & Sautee
me… I’m just a wannabe/flunkie.
O'Brien
July 2nd, 2010
3:09 pm
Clyde,
It looks like Sean Williams has been invited to Milwaukee camp.
Najeh,
Phoenix was offering stoudemire the same contract, but only the first 3 or 4 years were fully guaranteed in Phoenix.
I dont know Why Memphis offered Rudy gay a Max contract on day one, especially since he is restricted. And 5 years to drew golden?
You look at these deals, but yet David stern said the NBA is losing millions.
Dallas will outbid the hawks for Haywood anyway, so our best bet for a center is via trade.
i_am_soulstar
July 2nd, 2010
3:09 pm
I don’t think either All-Star teams or NBA All Defensive teams are an adequate measure of a player’s efficiency. Guys make/ don’t make the all-star team every year because of name recognition or lack thereof.
Chris Kaman was the best healthy center in the west halfway through the season and only made the All-Star roster as an injury replacement.
Thabo Sefalosha, best straight up perimeter defender in the league this year (my opinion), but still placed on the NBA All-Defensive 2nd team. Media exposure and name recognition play a huge role in deciding the honors that some of these gentlemen receive. Or I should just say perception.
Truth-Serum
July 2nd, 2010
3:12 pm
doc
July 2nd, 2010
2:44 pm
Thanks for the follow up. I do understand.JJ is proven. He will definitely needs some help as Vava has so clearly illustrated. The hawks are one of the few Franchises not in debt. I still think we got the 2 or 3 million from the sale of the draft to couple that with the mid range and or a trade and I think we can get a quality center.
Big Ray
July 2nd, 2010
3:12 pm
Ah hell, look at all the blog love being lavished around….
Clyde , what is yo MAIN MAN Sean Williams doing in some team’s rookie camp, bruh? That ain’t no real place for a bonafide starting caliber, shot-blocking center!
Ooops, my bad. That ain’t what Sean is …..
You goin’ back to Rio this year?
i_am_soulstar
July 2nd, 2010
3:14 pm
O’Brien,
Yeah i didn’t get that either. The guy’s restricted, why not wait and see what Minnesota would offer. I doubt it would be 5 years, 80 million. Maybe they thought he’d pull a Josh Childress. Still doesn’t make sense.
Big Ray
July 2nd, 2010
3:15 pm
i_am_soulstar
Damn straight. It didn’t do a dang thing for Dwight Howard and his luxury tax-killing Magic crew.
Of course, having Vince “The Art of Choking” Carter and Jameer “Lollipop Crew” Nelson fall on their faces, didn’t help either…
Even a drop dead, dyed in the wool, best center in the East can’t get anywhere when his best swingman and his pg can’t get the job done.
Truth-Serum
July 2nd, 2010
3:20 pm
O’Brien
July 2nd, 2010
2:35 pm
Ok again for me its about defense. since we are spitting rumors and not being held accountable with links and sources, I heard JJ said he wouldnt sign unless ASG/Sund could promise him a center! and Thats why Horford has been lobbying for a center.
G-Dot
July 2nd, 2010
3:28 pm
I agree he would sell tickets Grandad. Every now and then you need someone like that. I do believe he could help teach our big man a thing or to though. At least when it comes to us playing Orlando Shaq will make Howard work on both ends of the floor.
Big Ray
July 2nd, 2010
3:31 pm
drmaryb ,
Clyde is trying to be like Belkin and vote the rest of us “Crew” down. But he’s been bought out, so you are IN! Lol…
O'Brien
July 2nd, 2010
3:32 pm
Truth,
With more Teague and less Bibby, less switching, and a new coach, I think our defense will be better this year. But I agree that we definitely need to improve our defense, and the Hawks need help in the frontcourt.
I dont want know what’s taking JJ so long to give a verbal commitment. On 790 the zone, MC said there are some minor issues to work out, but to me, that shouldn’t stop JJ from giving a verbal commitment. With a verbal commitment, Rick Sund can move on to the next item, which I assume is to upgrade the frontcourt.
doc
July 2nd, 2010
3:34 pm
truth, for years i have been saying we need a quality center. i just dont agree totally with you on all the deficiencies you seem to have uncovered with al. undersized yes but plenty of room to still grow and a whole lot of production in the meantime. i too would like to see a quality fourth big added to our line up that gives us true flexibility maybe not to replace al unless he is true top drawer talent and can support and blend with al in the four position. i dont see that many guys out there even close to being available. i dont think we will have enough wiggle room to sign haywood in the end is my guess. i hope i am wrong.
i like al and josh and could go along with them for a long time. with that said i was one of the first, as soon as we were out of it and on the sidelines, to suggest an al jefferson for josh smith trade to see if that could correct some of the imbalance. i also have been one of josh smith’s strongest fans and enjoy what he brings except limos to the airport during the playoffs if it was he. most here dont think al j is an addition though he gives you 20/10 possibilities. walt bellamy could do that but never got us out of the first round and no one has since bob petit did when i was the tender age of 7 so the pragmatist in me from 57 years as a hawks fan is there arent many real starter types out there to be had. until i know that i dont give up on al. get me a quality point guard that can defend before you kick al h out the door.
Knees and toes
July 2nd, 2010
3:35 pm
All Shaq will do is make Howard laugh hard.
doc
July 2nd, 2010
3:37 pm
clyde does sean williams set you up on your soul searching trips into brazil. what does he have on you bro?
verbal commitments are about as good as carlos boozer’s name o’b. heh heh
drmaryb
July 2nd, 2010
3:41 pm
Grand-Daddy
Oh ok.
1. White Cowboy Boots – Check!
2. Sports Bra – Check!
3. Calico Shirt – Check!
4. Overalls with Daisy Duke Cut – Check!
5. Dog Spray – Check!
Sounds like I might need to gas up the General Lee and get me a Confederate Flag?
ROF. LOL.
drmaryb
July 2nd, 2010
3:54 pm
Clyde
High School and College or overseas or NBDL is for developmental studies!
The NBA is a Professional – Grown Man’s League.
I am NOT going to pay MY money to see a PROJECT get OTJ training, nor should I be expected to.
Clyde, we have a Six Year WOP & we need to WIN now – NOT later. Maybe, if we were an
elite team and was stocked with talent from #1 to #13 and had Championship Banners
waving in the rafters? Like the SPURS? Then, yeah – go ahead and run a day-care.
Were NOT that team! Sorry.
Sautee
July 2nd, 2010
3:54 pm
Truth-serum,
You wanted me to respond to this. I’m happy to do so.
“Here are other relative facts Id like you to address:”
“Horford did not make the 1st, 2nd or 3rd squad of the ALL NBA TEAM VOTED ON BY THE COACHES”
Correct. Horford is not yet one of the best 15 players in the league, just one of the 135 starters who DIDN’T get named All-NBA. The only 3rd year player so named was Kevin Durant. But you try to act like that’s shameful of Al for being one of 135 starters who were not named. There’s not a bit of shame in that.
“Horford did not make the 1st, or 2nd squad of the ALL NBA DEFENSIVE TEAM VOTED ON BY THE COACHES in fact he only received 1 vote and that was for the second team.”
That’s correct, too. Horford was one of the 140 starters in the league who did not make the All-Defensive team. Once again, why is that supposed to be shameful? Your boy Brook Lopez didn’t make All-NBA either, but would you turn down a chance to acquire him, just because he didn’t make either the All-Star team, the All-NBA team, or the All-Defensive team?
T-s, I’d really like you to answer that question. Your put down of Horford for these things seems petty.
“How about a little more objectivity out of you. The same coaches who added him to the allstar 2nd team felt he was not good enough to be on the all nba team any squad or all defensive team any squad. How about responding to that rather than saying, “Oh truth serum hates horford…by the way what grade are you in?” Just the fact ma’am!”
You are wrong here. Never have I asked “what grade are you in?” Never.
Remember YOU are the one who all too often resorts to personal attacks.
Melvin
July 2nd, 2010
4:06 pm
OB,
Memphis lockup Rudy early on their own terms. They was afraid that some team would offer him a front loaded contract (similiar to what the Hawks gave Joe 5 yrs ago) and they would have to match. It was a smart move on their b/c they are able to have Rudy agree on a contract their terms. Unlike the mistake the Hawks made when the match JSmoove contract in which Memphis added trade kickers in his contract making him more costly to trade…
i_am_soulstar
July 2nd, 2010
4:06 pm
Al Horford switched agents to handle his forthcoming contract negotiations. Guess who his new agent is??? Arn Tellem, Joe Johnson’s current agent.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AmhGH7gGDLaPi0Kh9aUvjqC8vLYF?slug=ys-freeagentbuzz070210
Rodney
July 2nd, 2010
4:06 pm
What kind of Kool-aid is Sund drinking in Atlanta. Well, he just over paid for a basically a no. 2 guard. joe johnson is a 29 year old cry-baby. I thought that a team’s best player was too rise to a occasion; he did the opposite, he disappeared.
i_am_soulstar
July 2nd, 2010
4:08 pm
Melvin
July 2nd, 2010
4:06 pm
OB,
Memphis lockup Rudy early on their own terms. They was afraid that some team would offer him a front loaded contract (similiar to what the Hawks gave Joe 5 yrs ago) and they would have to match. It was a smart move on their b/c they are able to have Rudy agree on a contract their terms. Unlike the mistake the Hawks made when the match JSmoove contract in which Memphis added trade kickers in his contract making him more costly to trade…
Melvin,
Thanks. Knew there had to be some sound logic to it.
Grandad
July 2nd, 2010
4:10 pm
Mary Ellen
“Sounds like I might need to gas up the General Lee and get me a Confederate Flag?”
-Naw-
pick-up truck with gun rack.
Plus, that flag’s outa’ style.
*Hawks banner instead.
I forgot;
Big Ray carries the hardware
so
that sorta trumps ‘Clyde’.
I would say a *Bull-Dawg banner, [also]
but
that would be dis-respectful to Clyde.
*Ala-dang-bammer
Grandad
July 2nd, 2010
4:11 pm
*messed up my paragraphin’ again.
Truth-Serum
July 2nd, 2010
4:20 pm
doc im tired of playing kick the can. Yeah we agree the post deficiency need to be addressed, We disagree on the severity. I say what you are suggesting as a solution or an experiment is in fact doing nothing and ignoring the problem, you say the guards should not be getting into the paint to embarrass horford. We disagree. I dont know of any efficient guard you can keep out of the paint. That what they get paid to do. But again, as you mentioned Ive given you facts and data to support my premise and Ive got a lot of opinions in return.
lets play something else because if I have to sit though another season with the same cast as last year I already know the results. Just like I forecasted last year wed be out in the second. You want me to rest on the possibility that horford may get better…..suddenly becoming a force in the middle defensively, going from a career12pts to 17 18 or 20 pts offensively…
Did I ever tell you I actually captured a live alien? some time he uses my computer to blogs goes by the name of Gee Whiz.
Lakers #12 offense in the NBA
Hawks #13
Lakers# 2 defense in the NBA
Hawks# 17
lakers centers:
16 Pau Gasol C 7-0 250 07/06/1980 Barcelona, Spain 9
28 Didier Ilunga-Mbenga C 7-0 255 12/30/1980 Kinshasa, DRC
17 Andrew Bynum C 7-0 285 10/27/1987 St. Joseph HS (NJ) 5
hawks
33 Randolph Morris C 6-11 275 01/02/1986 Kentucky 4
27 Zaza Pachulia C 6-11 275 02/10/1984 Tbilisi, Georgia
15 Al Horford C 6-10 235 06/03/1986 Florida 3
I see why there are so many lakers fans in Phillips. Hawks are full of Sh!t!
Starting center please
O'Brien
July 2nd, 2010
4:21 pm
Melvin,
Fair enough. Its feasible the Knicks or Nets could have dont that if they miss out on the big name free agents.
Speaking of the Knicks, if they sign one of the big name free agent power forwards (Bosh, Boozer or Stoudemire), but still miss out on JJ, Wade and LeBron, would anyone be interested in a sign and trade of Jamal Crawford for David Lee?
Truth-Serum
July 2nd, 2010
4:23 pm
Sautee, Big Ray Rule. Find another house to haunt!
O'Brien
July 2nd, 2010
4:23 pm
Truth Serum,
You conveniently left off the fact that Kobe Bryant (SG) and Ron Artest (SF) have made numerous all NBA defensive teams in the past.
Dont you think they have anything to do with the Lakers TEAM defense?
Truth-Serum
July 2nd, 2010
4:30 pm
“With a verbal commitment, Rick Sund can move on to the next item, which I assume is to upgrade the frontcourt.”
I guess its a catch 22 because I dont think JJ will make that verbal until he gets a verbal from Sund about getting as Sund has said a “Bona-fied coenter. Even Al has gone on record saying he wants to move back to the 4 so hawks can get a 5. That contradicts with Sund’s philosophy. Ever see a dog chase his tail?
Truth-Serum
July 2nd, 2010
4:34 pm
O’Brien sure, no argument there. Its a team effort but I be wrong if I said that its not imperative that you control the low post in the half court sets of the late rounds of the playoffs. Id be wrong if I said you can win a crown with out it.
Truth-Serum
July 2nd, 2010
4:34 pm
bona fied center