Atlanta Hawks: Why ASG wants J.J. back (even for the max) UPDATE: Still waiting
UPDATE: Still no word on an agreement between J.J. and the Hawks. There’s been no indication that a deal won’t happen soon, with J.J.’s agent telling Marc Berman of the New York Post: “[H]e’s comfortable in Atlanta, happy, and they can offer him one more year.”
If J.J. likes the team and the money, all that’s left for the Hawks is to wait . . .
Talked to a person with insight into ASG’s rationale for offering J.J. a max contract. Basically, the plan is for the Hawks to re-sign J.J. and then add the necessary pieces to make them a true contender in the Eastern Conference.
Letting Joe leave would mean the Hawks would be worse in the short term, and the Hawks aren’t prepared to take that step back (the sign-and-trade options aren’t so appealing as to assure the team would maintain or improve). Once they made that philosophical decision, they took a look at the market for J.J. It quickly became clear that a few teams with cap space were ready to offer him the non-Bird max, so the Hawks made an aggressive play to re-sign him and hope that pays off with a commitment from J.J. soon.
Atlanta’s basketball people recognize that re-signing J.J. alone isn’t enough to improve the team (because, well, it’s basically the same team) and ASG is not opposed to exceeding the luxury-tax threshold to sign the right player. That’s a good thing since they don’t have much choice. If J.J. re-signs, the Hawks would have about $68 million in committed salaries when including Chill’s $4.8 million qualifying offer and Jordan Crawford’s rookie-scale salary. The NBA projects the tax threshold will be about $68 million, so the Hawks would be bumping up against it with only 10 11 players under contract.
That leaves a minimum of three two open roster spots. If Chills signs an offer sheet (Washington is interested) and the Hawks don’t match it (they haven’t ruled out matching or working out a sign-and-trade) then the committed salaries would be roughly $63 million with four three open roster spots. The Hawks want a bona fide center and ASG is open to using the mid-level exception to sign one. They also will explore trade opportunities, though there haven’t been any serious discussions about potential moves because Rick Sund is focused on J.J. right now.
Here is where the draft ties into ASG’s thinking. The Hawks traded down with the belief that Jordan Crawford (he needs a nickname, right?) would still be there at No. 27. They liked Kentucky’s Daniel Orton and would have taken him with the No. 31 pick but he went 29th to the Magic and they didn’t like any of the other centers available. So they sold the No. 31 pick for close to $3 million, and that money could help offset their potential luxury tax bill and also the hit they would take for missing out on the tax escrow rebate.
ASG rejects the view expressed by David Aldridge and others that a potential sell of the team influenced the max offer to J.J. Michael Gearon Jr. has insisted that he is not interested in selling his share. It’s expected that Steve Belkin eventually, finally, mercifully will be bought out and another investor will be sought. The Hawks are said to be one of the few teams with no debt on their franchise.
So a future sell of the team is not what’s driving the decision to max out J.J., according to the person privy to ASG’s plans. It’s about the belief that re-signing J.J., adding more pieces and improving their tactics and approach under L.D. will allow the Hawks to finally take the next step. As far as I know, all the speculation about using J.J. in a sign-and-trade is off base, perhaps a way for skeptical observers to rationalize what they see as a bad contract offer from the Hawks. It’s always possible, I guess, but I haven’t heard anything that leads me to believe they want to send J.J. along (a sign-and-trade obviously would require his permission) and everything to suggest they really want him back.
I understand why many of my blog people (and it seems pretty much everyone on the Interwebs) believe this was a bad move. As I said before, Hoopinion, Peachtree Hoops and HawksStr8Talk all offered reasonable, clear-headed explanations as to why they feel the Hawks should move on without J.J. if his price is too high. I’m just trying to offer you as much insight as possible into why ASG did made the decision to offer the max.
If J.J. re-signs and the plan doesn’t work, with J.J.’s contract becoming a burden and their other moves also falling flat, then the Hawks will be judged harshly.
MC
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
444 comments Add your comment
Kenny D
July 2nd, 2010
12:41 pm
Trust me JJ was not going to get that $ from no other team ! Very overpaid !
This cat don’t have any leadership ! I hope he can regain the support of the Atlanta Fans !
JJ you better learn to be a 199m leader ! Go Hawks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Clyde
July 2nd, 2010
12:44 pm
Sean Williams is still available. At least bring him in to a look.
The Dragon
July 2nd, 2010
12:51 pm
The reason why the Hornets are interested is because this is more about creating cap room, starting over, and making the team attractive to a buyer, then making themselves more competitive. They came close to pulling the trigger on a deal with Portland for Pyrzbilla, Andre Miller, Batum and Bayless for CP3 and Okafor. In the Hawks deal, they get a little more flexibility with cap room as well as what they consider a better young piece in Marvin Williams. Additionally, they don’t have to trade CP3 to the Western Conference. Keep your eyes open for this one.
Grandad
July 2nd, 2010
12:52 pm
i_am_soulstar
* on Mbenga:
I would like him as a tough guy enforcer.
Not @ the expense of Zaza.
Zaza has a role for us as well.
tckr83 – Dragon’s hearing those “rumors”:
over @ realGM where fans propose [hypothetical]trades.
dap01
“By the end of JJ’s contract, the Hawks will be “blowing everything up and starting over”. Which will end a poor attempt at the rebuilding started many years ago.”
I disagree – STRONGLY !!!
J & A are the true core of this team .
Joe is an expensive necessity.
O’B – Mbenga Un-RFA.
Would not have to trade anyone.
tony
July 2nd, 2010
12:53 pm
Melvin, you are talking in circles sonny. I shown you facts you shown nothing. JJ havn’t done nothing since he arrived in Atlanta. He need to hit the road. They need to sign John Salmon and Brandan Haywood. That’s alot cheaper than signing mediocre J.Johnson to a max contract.
Grandad
July 2nd, 2010
12:57 pm
My 12:52 post
That’s what you call screwin’ up;
spacing, paragraphing, chronilogicl order,
& pretty much everythin’ else.
Sorry O’B, you shoul have had you own paragraph.
O'Brien
July 2nd, 2010
12:58 pm
nobody,
If we were to trade for Monta Ellis, I hope we have a plan to trade Jamal. How do you feel about trading Marvin and Mo Evans for Biedrins (3 years $27 mil left, with a player option for year 4) from GS?
Clyde,
If we were to bring Sean Williams, we would probably have to give him notice way in advance so he can get certain things out of his system.
Some things I have learned from this blog.
1) Until JJ apologizes, Section 303 will not let it go. I agree with AJ though. Maybe JJ can take out an ad in the ajc to apologize (like Arthur Blank did after the MNF debacle right before Petrino quit), in additional to his press conference.
2) TS does have some good points sometimes, but he will always find a way to criticize Horford
tony,
Criticizing JJ is fine, but you’re missing the point. Even if the Hawks wanted to sign John Salmons and Haywood, they dont have the salary cap space. So unless Salmons will sign for the mid-level (~$6 mil per), and Haywood sign for the bi-annual (~$2 mil), you’re wasting your time. Under the salary cap rules, we cannot afford those 2 guys.
atownhawk23
July 2nd, 2010
1:01 pm
actually who cares whose coming in the league. they aint nobody. what they go do. huh. I’m just saying. AND WHY DO Y’ALL DUMB BROADS CARE ABOUT HOW MUCH MONEY JJ IS MAKING ITS NOT COMING OUT OF Y’ALL POCKETS. SHOOT Y’ALL JUST MAD BECAUSE Y’ALL CAN’T EVEN BE MILLIONAIRE. SO WILL Y’ALL JUST SHUT THE HECK UP AND ENJOY THE DARN SHOW OR GO TO SUPPORTING SOME LAME TEAM THATS A WANNA BE ATLANTA HAWKS LIKE THE OKC THUNDER. SHOOT JUST LIKE JJ I COULD CARELESS IF Y’ALL FOLKS DO SUPPORT THE HAWKS BECAUSE THE PHILLIPS ARENAS IS DOING JUST FINE WITHOUT YOU PEOPLE ANYWAY. SO BYE THEN!
BYE BYE BE GONE YOU BANDWAGONS AND HATERS. YOU WANNA KNOW WHOS BEING CHEAP JUST TAKE A LOOK AT YOURSELF FOR ONCE. YOU WANNA KNOW WHAT THINK ABOUT YOU SO CALLED HAWKS FANS. WELL I THINK YOU ALL ARE THE CHEAP ONES OF THIS BUNCH. Y’ALL FOLKS DON’T APPRECIATE NOTHING PEOPLE DO FOR Y’ALL.
BTW THERES NOW BANDWAGONS OR HATERS OR CHEAP IN FAN OR TEAM.
SO GET A LIFE!
Grandad
July 2nd, 2010
1:02 pm
tckr83:
On Joe’s contract;
your points were well taken.
I hope mine were as well.
Sincerely,
G-dad.
dap01
July 2nd, 2010
1:06 pm
Grandad: I hope you are correct and I hope I am wrong.
atownhawk23
July 2nd, 2010
1:12 pm
aww. look at all y’all bandwagon and cheap behinds complain complain. that’s all y’all do complain 24/7 about NOTHING. HAVE Y’ALL HAWKS FANS(PEOPLE WHO DON’T COME TO ANY REGULAR SEASON GAMES, BUT THE PLAYOFFS) STOP AND LISTENED TO YOURSELVES, SO IF YOU TRY TO CORRECT ME YOU CAN’T BECAUSE I WENT TO MOST OF THE GAMES LAST YEAR (YOU PROBABLY HAVEN’T). CAUSE REALLY 75% OF YOU PEOPLE ON THIS BLOG AND DOING THESE BLOGS DIDN’T CARE TIL THE HAWKS STARTED WINNING. SHOOT I DON’T SEE WHY YOU PEOPLE ARE MAD ABOUT THAT COMMENT JJ MAD BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY HE ISN’T TALKING TO YOU BECAUSE REMEMBER Y’ALL FAMOUS QUOTE “HEY EVERYBODY, LETS NOT GO TO THE HAWKS GAMES SINCE PLAY LIKE THIS”. Y’ALL SOUND SO STUPID, PLAY LIKE WHAT. THEY OUT THERE LOSING THEY BREATHE FOR YOU DISRESPECTFUL RUDE RETARDED, AND UNAPPRECIATIVE FANS. SO GO HEAD GO ON TO THE THUNDER BECAUSE WHO THEY’RE GOING TO DO BETTER THEN THIS TEAM. THEY COULDN’T GET TO THE SECOND ROUND PEOPLE.
atownhawk23
July 2nd, 2010
1:13 pm
SO INSTEAD OF REBUILDING THE TEAM WE SHOULD REBUILD THIS FAN BASE.
Truth-Serum
July 2nd, 2010
1:14 pm
2) TS does have some good points sometimes, but he will always find a way to criticize Horford
Thanks for the shout O’Brien. My criticism of the center of the team is very active. Thats true. Horford is that center. I just criticized josh, and marvin, but you may not be as sensitive to that.
My mission is to point out how much the hawks need a starting defensive center. Its unfortunate for all of the Horford fans that means I have to show a need. Horford is the center. I remember When Zaza was the starting center and Snowman (hang out with bradley and Schulttz) said you must hate Zaza, no, dont hate Zaza either. I just know basketball and you cant get far with out a center. You can take it personally if you like to. Its not meant that way. I just want a legitimate center. What ever his name is .
O’Brien.
Truth-Serum
July 2nd, 2010
1:19 pm
*uplifting to the blog-o-sphere
* just the facts ma’am
Nate ArchiBALL
July 2nd, 2010
1:21 pm
@ Grandad – What is ZaZa’s role?
nobody
July 2nd, 2010
1:25 pm
O’brien: I like Bierdrins. I wouldnt mind trying to get brandon wright from them either. I know he hasnt done much but he is big. But only if he didnt cost anything. I doubt GS would take Jamaal back a year after they got rid of him. haha
Sautee
July 2nd, 2010
1:25 pm
And MY argument, T-s, is that Horford PLAYS like “legitimate center”.
His All-Star selection shows that the coaches agreed.
My first crossings with you were because the centers you named at that time were not any more “legitimate” than Horford if you went by production.
And YOU took it personally.
Admiral Ackbar
July 2nd, 2010
1:31 pm
Lord have mercy on your soul, pull the offer from JJ while you still can. How can you pay a #2 like a #1, and not regret it for most of the term of the deal?
Mark my words, if the Hawks overpay for JJ who disappeared in the playoffs, it will damage the Hawks for the next 10 years. JJ is a fine complementary player, but does not have what it takes as a consistent player and as a leader to merit this investment.
Truth-Serum
July 2nd, 2010
1:35 pm
“And once again you try to belittle Horford by talking about a “whooping (sic) 1 basket increase”. Of course you FAIL to mention that Al’s Field Goal attempts only increased by a whopping 1.5 per game.
At 1.5 extra FGA, the MOST he could raise his average would be 3 points (if he shot 100% on two pointers). He raised his average from 11.5 to 14.2 which is 2.7 points. But instead of seeing THAT as very efficient, you choose to mock it.”
LET BE REAL AND PUT THAT INTO PERSPECTIVE:
IN 2008/2009 AL TOOK 594 SHOTS AT .525%
IN 2009/2010 AL TOOK 847 SHOTS AT .551%
THAT IS AN SIGNIFICANT INCREASE IN SHOTS TAKEN BUT NOT A SIGNIFICANT INCREASE IN SHOTS MADE. AS A RESULT OF THE OVER 200 ADDITIONAL SHOTS AL TOOK HE INCREASED HIS SCORING 1 BASKET.
Grandad
July 2nd, 2010
1:38 pm
Nate ArchiBALL – re:(Zaza)
Have you seen his wife?
Just kiddin’…sorta…really have you seen her?
Man she’s smokin’!
Oh, you didn’t mean that role.
Well, # one, I like Zaza.
Seriously, Woodson put him in the dog-house
from which he could never escape.
When Zaza 1st came he showed alot of promise.
Like many others he wilted on the vine.
He’s only [26-?, years old]. I’m close.
He’s still a young man.
@ his salary a bargain.
Darn good back-up [5].
LD will use him *More* wisely!
I predict.
Not a good answer, but , the only one I have.
LD holds the answer!
i_am_soulstar
July 2nd, 2010
1:39 pm
Truth Serum,
It sounds like there’s not much difference between our thoughts besides opinion of the stated facts (you dropped some opinion in there as well fella), so i’ll leave it at that.
darrell starks
July 2nd, 2010
1:40 pm
I have no problem joe signing only if you can bring in chris paul ,and from what i here we can offer a marvin and bibby and a first for paul or may give them 2 first round and and bibby and marvin for paul the hawks should pull the trigger if possible.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
Grandad
July 2nd, 2010
1:41 pm
Nate ArchiBALL
Don’t tell *Mrs. Grandad* what I said.
She might hurt me real bad.
darrell starks
July 2nd, 2010
1:41 pm
CHRIS PAUL or MONTA ELLIS i perfer paul but monta ellis will work 2.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!
i_am_soulstar
July 2nd, 2010
1:42 pm
Truth Serum,
It sounds like there’s not much difference between our statements besides opinion of the stated facts (you dropped some opinion in there as well fella), so i’ll leave it at that.
bigdave
July 2nd, 2010
1:43 pm
the collective bargaining agreement could reduce these monstrous contracts by 10..20% ?
Truth-Serum
July 2nd, 2010
1:43 pm
“And MY argument, T-s, is that Horford PLAYS like “legitimate center”.
His All-Star selection shows that the coaches agreed”
You never address this:
Horford did not make the 1st, 2nd or 3rd squad of the ALL NBA TEAM VOTED ON BY THE COACHES
Horford did not make the 1st, or 2nd squad of the ALL NBA DEFENSIVE TEAM VOTED ON BY THE COACHES in fact he only received 1 vote and that was for the second team.
You never respond to that but you have no problem saying Horford was added to the allstar team by coaches.
How about a little more objectivity out of you. The same coaches who added him to the allstar 2nd team felt he was not good enough to be on the all nba team any squad or all defensive team any squad. How about responding to that rather than saying, “Oh truth serum hates horford…by the way what grade are you in?” Just the fact ma’am!
garcia
July 2nd, 2010
1:46 pm
Truth-Serum,
I have not been following this blog closely. And, I have not bothered to look for your debate. I just want a little clarification. If a player increases the number of shots he takes AND he increases his shot percentage, how is that not a good thing?
If Horford’s FG% is not good enough for you, can you at least admit that he is young and still able to improve?
In my eyes, Horford is a foundation player.
Truth-Serum
July 2nd, 2010
1:48 pm
So I guess they agree hes very popular which is what the allstar game is a popularity contest but is not all NBA skill wise and not NBA defensive skill wise.
In conclusion he’s very popular but not very skillfull
WHAT
July 2nd, 2010
1:51 pm
Ok JJ has the offer why is he holding the hawks hostage ? take the money so they hawks can move forward trying to improve the team with minimum wage players .
Joe Mama
July 2nd, 2010
1:53 pm
garcia /LOL/sautee
lets see
.551
-.525
______
. 026
Grandad
July 2nd, 2010
1:54 pm
-Hatter-
We gonna get you that center.
J & A will become even greater Teammates.
Joe will earn his money *quietly*
*the way Hank Aaron once did*.
Al will become the TEAM Leader/Captain.
Sautee, myself, Big Ray, et al;
will induct you & drmaryb…..
into the “Bubba Crew”
&
We will all sit together for
game 7 of the NBA Finals.
In the ATL of course.
nobody
July 2nd, 2010
1:54 pm
T-S your All NBA defense doesnt mean much. So in Horfords 3rd year he isnt top 3 center? Oh no. That means he sucks…….
Joe Mama
July 2nd, 2010
1:54 pm
JJ is waiting to see if the hawks are going to get a center!!
Truth-Serum
July 2nd, 2010
1:56 pm
Grandad
July 2nd, 2010
1:54 pm
Big Smile erupting!
promoter
July 2nd, 2010
1:56 pm
the hawks need to sign nate robinson so they can sell a few more tickets to help pay for JJ’s Koncak.
dap01
July 2nd, 2010
1:56 pm
IN 2008/2009 AL TOOK 594 SHOTS AT .525%
IN 2009/2010 AL TOOK 847 SHOTS AT .551%
THAT IS AN SIGNIFICANT INCREASE IN SHOTS TAKEN BUT NOT A SIGNIFICANT INCREASE IN SHOTS MADE. AS A RESULT OF THE OVER 200 ADDITIONAL SHOTS AL TOOK HE INCREASED HIS SCORING 1 BASKET.
Truth: The above statement is incorrect. The shots attempted increased by 43%, the shots made increased by 50%.
Truth-Serum
July 2nd, 2010
1:58 pm
i_am_soulstar
July 2nd, 2010
1:42 pm
Nutten but love 4 ya
O'Brien
July 2nd, 2010
2:00 pm
TS,
I agree with you that hawks need another center. Where we disagree is I don’t think it needs to be a starting center (you do), and I give horford credit and admit he is young with room to improve (you don’t).
As for all NBA, the 3 centers chosen were Dwight Howard, amare stoudemire, and Andrew bogut. For all NBA defense, the centers chosen were howard and tim duncan.
Noone is claiming that horford is better than those guys. But I didn’t see brook Lopez name, I didn’t see Chris kaman name, I didn’t see Samuel dalembert name, I didn’t see shaq’s name.
So are those guys not legitimate centers either?
Grandad
July 2nd, 2010
2:02 pm
pmomoter 1:56 pm
That was funny!
Truth-Serum
July 2nd, 2010
2:03 pm
darrell starks
July 2nd, 2010
1:41 pm
big co-sign
promoter
July 2nd, 2010
2:04 pm
for that matter shaq will probably take the minimum to play one more year with a shot at the playoffs again , play him about 15 minutes a game until the playoffs have him rested and unleash him in the playoffs to lean on people , shaq and robinson will put fans in the seats .
O'Brien
July 2nd, 2010
2:04 pm
Truth,
Horford was selected by coaches. Why would coaches care about popularity?
promoter
July 2nd, 2010
2:06 pm
grandad
thank you ! I am trying to add a little humor to my feelings for the hawks right now ,
I have been following them since roundfield was the MAN and i want to see a title badly .
nobody
July 2nd, 2010
2:08 pm
thank you obrien. OMG horford didnt make a list for the top 3 NBA centers. he sucks………
doc
July 2nd, 2010
2:09 pm
tony the more you say the more ignorant you appear to be, let me repeat what o’b has said:
tony,
Criticizing JJ is fine, but you’re missing the point. Even if the Hawks wanted to sign John Salmons and Haywood, they dont have the salary cap space. So unless Salmons will sign for the mid-level (~$6 mil per), and Haywood sign for the bi-annual (~$2 mil), you’re wasting your time. Under the salary cap rules, we cannot afford those 2 guys.
doc
July 2nd, 2010
2:11 pm
the timing of the decision for jj will come from jj’s lawyer’s and agent after the language of the contract is complete. if they say it is good, then he makes his decision.
Truth-Serum
July 2nd, 2010
2:11 pm
O’Brien
July 2nd, 2010
2:00 pm
Im Ok with your opinion. I do agree that horford is young and has room to grow. By the time he is 27/28 if hes stays healthy,his value will be off the charts but more so as a power forward than a center.Right now we are in range of competing for a title and we need a, as Sund and other has said a bona fied center.
The only facts you present is that horford was added to the all star team by coaches. Fair enough.
Here are other relative facts Id like you to address:
Horford did not make the 1st, 2nd or 3rd squad of the ALL NBA TEAM VOTED ON BY THE COACHES
Horford did not make the 1st, or 2nd squad of the ALL NBA DEFENSIVE TEAM VOTED ON BY THE COACHES in fact he only received 1 vote and that was for the second team.
Truth-Serum
July 2nd, 2010
2:13 pm
O’Brien
July 2nd, 2010
2:04 pm
Truth,
Horford was selected by coaches. Why would coaches care about popularity?
His
Truth-Serum
July 2nd, 2010
2:14 pm
O’Brien
July 2nd, 2010
2:04 pm
Truth,
Horford was selected by coaches. Why would coaches care about popularity?
Historically the all star game has been one of show and popularity than an assessment of skill values.