Atlanta Hawks: Why ASG wants J.J. back (even for the max) UPDATE: Still waiting
UPDATE: Still no word on an agreement between J.J. and the Hawks. There’s been no indication that a deal won’t happen soon, with J.J.’s agent telling Marc Berman of the New York Post: “[H]e’s comfortable in Atlanta, happy, and they can offer him one more year.”
If J.J. likes the team and the money, all that’s left for the Hawks is to wait . . .
Talked to a person with insight into ASG’s rationale for offering J.J. a max contract. Basically, the plan is for the Hawks to re-sign J.J. and then add the necessary pieces to make them a true contender in the Eastern Conference.
Letting Joe leave would mean the Hawks would be worse in the short term, and the Hawks aren’t prepared to take that step back (the sign-and-trade options aren’t so appealing as to assure the team would maintain or improve). Once they made that philosophical decision, they took a look at the market for J.J. It quickly became clear that a few teams with cap space were ready to offer him the non-Bird max, so the Hawks made an aggressive play to re-sign him and hope that pays off with a commitment from J.J. soon.
Atlanta’s basketball people recognize that re-signing J.J. alone isn’t enough to improve the team (because, well, it’s basically the same team) and ASG is not opposed to exceeding the luxury-tax threshold to sign the right player. That’s a good thing since they don’t have much choice. If J.J. re-signs, the Hawks would have about $68 million in committed salaries when including Chill’s $4.8 million qualifying offer and Jordan Crawford’s rookie-scale salary. The NBA projects the tax threshold will be about $68 million, so the Hawks would be bumping up against it with only 10 11 players under contract.
That leaves a minimum of three two open roster spots. If Chills signs an offer sheet (Washington is interested) and the Hawks don’t match it (they haven’t ruled out matching or working out a sign-and-trade) then the committed salaries would be roughly $63 million with four three open roster spots. The Hawks want a bona fide center and ASG is open to using the mid-level exception to sign one. They also will explore trade opportunities, though there haven’t been any serious discussions about potential moves because Rick Sund is focused on J.J. right now.
Here is where the draft ties into ASG’s thinking. The Hawks traded down with the belief that Jordan Crawford (he needs a nickname, right?) would still be there at No. 27. They liked Kentucky’s Daniel Orton and would have taken him with the No. 31 pick but he went 29th to the Magic and they didn’t like any of the other centers available. So they sold the No. 31 pick for close to $3 million, and that money could help offset their potential luxury tax bill and also the hit they would take for missing out on the tax escrow rebate.
ASG rejects the view expressed by David Aldridge and others that a potential sell of the team influenced the max offer to J.J. Michael Gearon Jr. has insisted that he is not interested in selling his share. It’s expected that Steve Belkin eventually, finally, mercifully will be bought out and another investor will be sought. The Hawks are said to be one of the few teams with no debt on their franchise.
So a future sell of the team is not what’s driving the decision to max out J.J., according to the person privy to ASG’s plans. It’s about the belief that re-signing J.J., adding more pieces and improving their tactics and approach under L.D. will allow the Hawks to finally take the next step. As far as I know, all the speculation about using J.J. in a sign-and-trade is off base, perhaps a way for skeptical observers to rationalize what they see as a bad contract offer from the Hawks. It’s always possible, I guess, but I haven’t heard anything that leads me to believe they want to send J.J. along (a sign-and-trade obviously would require his permission) and everything to suggest they really want him back.
I understand why many of my blog people (and it seems pretty much everyone on the Interwebs) believe this was a bad move. As I said before, Hoopinion, Peachtree Hoops and HawksStr8Talk all offered reasonable, clear-headed explanations as to why they feel the Hawks should move on without J.J. if his price is too high. I’m just trying to offer you as much insight as possible into why ASG did made the decision to offer the max.
If J.J. re-signs and the plan doesn’t work, with J.J.’s contract becoming a burden and their other moves also falling flat, then the Hawks will be judged harshly.
MC
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
444 comments Add your comment
PapiSean99
July 1st, 2010
8:31 pm
I AM GETTING INTO THE CAPS SPIRIT LOL, LISTEN JOE IS NOT WORTH HALF OF THAT CONTRACT HE IS NOT YOUR 1# PLAYER WE ALL WISH HE WAS AS I SAID BEFORE HE IS A 2 AT BEST DOES NOT NEED THAT 119 MILLION. IF YOU TAKE THAT MONEY AS SOME ONE PREVIOUSLY SAID SHOP FOR A BIG AND MAYBE SIGN HIM FOR LESS YOU WOULD EASILY BE TOP 2 IN THE EASTERN CONF. BUT INSTEAD PEOPLE ARE BEING EMOTIONAL AND FEELING LIKE WE ARE DOING THIS GREAT INJUSTICE IN NOT TRYING TO SIGN HIM. IF YOU ALL DONT RECALL THIS IS THE SAME GUY WHO TOLD ALL OF US HE DIDNT CARE WHAT WE THOUGHT. I SAY LET THEM ROAST HIS BUTT IN NEW YORK HE WILL WISH HE COULD SIGN FOR 20 MILLION. THE HAWKS ALREADY MAD 1 BAD MOVE NOT GETTING A REAL COACH PLEASE DONT MAKE ANOTHER!!!
Chip Shot
July 1st, 2010
8:32 pm
GET RID OF MARV SCREW BIBI AND GET THAT DUDE JOSH HOWARD IN FA BECAUSE WE NEED SOME WEED!
Chip Shot
July 1st, 2010
8:33 pm
HIGH TIMES PLAYER OF THE YEAR JOSH HOWARD THATS RIGHT U KNOW HE BRINGS IT
Reid Adair
July 1st, 2010
8:34 pm
The Hawks could just as easily become a contender by letting Joe Johnson move on and adding pieces. Johnson is not critical to contending in the Eastern Conference.
PapiSean99
July 1st, 2010
8:38 pm
When we realize that we dont need that under achiever then we can go further i think he is a GREAT player but a MASSIVE under achiever. NO OTHER TEAM WOULD THINK OF OFFERING HIM THE MAX AT ALL
rusty
July 1st, 2010
8:39 pm
the world is freaking laughing at us & people here talk like this is good. does giving joe all this money mean he will have to shoot & dominate the ball more. he choked up last year trying to prove he was a elite
player,how bad will he do with everybody looking at him, he will have to justify getting all that money.
drmaryb
July 1st, 2010
8:40 pm
British Anger
Don’t you get it? Joe is dealing with you angry so-called fans! You are out numbered by the
Real Un-angry Fans! And, Joe could care less IF you don’t show up at one single game.
He would prefer it if YOU stayed home or go to a hockey game instead. I hear Soccer is a hot sport right now!
Maybe you can go be angry at a soccer player instead! He doesn’t give a damn about you.
Keep your money.
drmaryb
July 1st, 2010
8:41 pm
* Joe is NOt NOT NOT dealing with you angry so-called fans……
drmaryb
July 1st, 2010
8:45 pm
Joe doesn’t have to justify his money – all he has to do is sign a direct deposit slip!
You are not that important.
NCBravesFan
July 1st, 2010
8:52 pm
Gotta give props to the ASG for trying to execute a plan to go further into the playoffs. If you remember last offseason, Sund made it clear that the model for ATL would be similar to Detroit’s championship squad a few years ago. A deep roster of talented players (but no superstar).
The changes entering this past season were pretty modest but then again, the team had progressed in 2008-09 (47 wins and a first round series victory in the playoffs) – there was no real mandate for a change.
That is not the case this go round – the Hawks by any measure regressed this year. So the mandate for change is there – and we’ll see what the roster looks like in six weeks, and ultimately judge Joe’s contract(assuming he signs) – and the other yet-to-be-made changes come playoff time the next couple of years. That’s the ONLY way ANYONE can truly judge this offseason!!!
People saying the Hawks should cut Joe loose and temporarily regress: that’s easy to say out loud and easy to put out on a blog. But that’s a mighty hard switch for an organization that has come out of a 13-win wilderness to throw – especially when they’ve progressed to become a top four seed in the east.
Steve
July 1st, 2010
8:56 pm
Only move is getting JJ back – hope he signs. Hopefully we can do a match and trade with Chilz, wouldn’t mind a Nate Robinson at Point either. Guys need to lay off Marvin – he’s only 23 – last year was coming off a back injury. Let’s see what he does this year. 7.5m is not overpaying for him, and 4.75m is not overpaying for ZaZa. Woody need Bibbs, so we had to go all in to keep him – I would have preferred the older Andre Miller for less money – better shape than Bibby, but he didn’t know Woody’s system. Sund is the man! Making 3 mill. on the draft and still getting your guy, and stealing Jamal – drafting Teague – he’s done nothing but good by me with the financial handcuffs he’s had. Signing Smith and Collins were even great moves with the vet min. he had to work with.
Still need an answer for Howard, or we’re sunk next yr. also – maybe Teague plays Jameer better. We just didn’t match up well with the Magic, end of story.
northcyde
July 1st, 2010
8:57 pm
Doc . . I don’t make idiotic comments like what the imposter Northcyde said. I know good and damn well this team lost because of pizz poor defense, and because JJ played like ish, along with the others at times.
Truth-Serum
July 1st, 2010
9:01 pm
“The Hawks want a bona fide center and ASG is open to using the mid-level exception to sign one. They also will explore trade opportunities, though there haven’t been any serious discussions about potential moves because Rick Sund is focused on J.J. right now”
Music to my ears! I like that very much but and this is a huge but… I dont want Sund to break up the nucleus to do it. Smoove stays! All the hawks need is a “bona fide” center and a smart ballhandling point guard (doesnt have to be a super star) and we are on.
doc
July 1st, 2010
9:12 pm
northcyde, hear ya, najeh called it. i was thinking if it was you it was a pretty funny way to get a few of the goats around here. ‘-)
was that you “approving” the move? a few more smart moves might increase the value of those tix you went out and bought. heh heh
cheshire
July 1st, 2010
9:12 pm
Like most Hawks fans, i loathe the ASG, but i really do like Sund and think he’s a smart GM. I don’t like re-signing Joe, but i understand it. The Hawks are in the unfortunate position of being screwed either way, UNLESS they are in fact going to bring in other pieces to get them to that next level. So while i’m still skeptical (what else would i be when my favorite team has been here over 40 years and never even contended for a championship), this article gives me a little hope.
My only question is, what are those other pieces? Your obvious weaknesses right now are at point guard and small forward. I like the idea of going to get a legitimate center, but doesn’t that create a problem by giving you 2 power forwards (Smoove and Horford)? If so, do you then trade one of those guys to get a solid PG or SF?
The other problem here is that you have no clue what you’ve got in Teague. He could be amazing, or he could be a total bust. We could already be set at PG and just don’t know it, in which case your only real weakness in the starting five is at SF.
Bottom line, i don’t envy Rick Sund’s job right now.
Astro Joe
July 1st, 2010
9:13 pm
What “bonafide” centers are out there that aren’t 1-2 years from retirement? Surely they won’t sign Ilgauskas and declare victory, will they?
Truth-Serum
July 1st, 2010
9:15 pm
“I understand why many of my blog people (and it seems pretty much everyone on the Interwebs) believe this was a bad move. As I said before, Hoopinion, Peachtree Hoops and HawksStr8Talk all offered reasonable, clear-headed explanations as to why they feel the Hawks should move on without J.J. if his price is too high. I’m just trying to offer you as much insight as possible into why ASG did made the decision to offer the max.”
Excellent writing! BTW.
I like the gamble. I think the attitude is right. This is how we roll. Take a freaking chance. Yeah there is a down side that could potentially cripple the franchise but the upside potential is greater than the down side. If we get the right personnel to compliment JJ, i.e. a true center and a true point, ,keep the core together, we can indeed go after a championship and raise the stature of this franchise and city…. ASG is banking on it.
Great feature reporting Mr. Cunningham! – and thanks for the link on the escrow and luxury taxes.
If J.J. re-signs and the plan doesn’t work, with J.J.’s contract becoming a burden and their other moves also falling flat, then the Hawks will be judged harshly.
JeJe
July 1st, 2010
9:18 pm
It is a very big deal that Joe has NOT accepted the extension yet. The 2 sides met at around 3 PM and people claimed Joe would take the deal, but he didn’t. The ASG probably offered 119 and Joe wanted the 6 extra
Truth-Serum
July 1st, 2010
9:18 pm
Astro Joe
July 1st, 2010
9:13 pm
LOL. I hope not, but there was the subliminal indication that a trade could be made. Sounded like they had counted the dollars and cents which is usually a sign that they have a certain person in mind and a method to get him. Ill bet theres a short list and Ilgauskas aint on it.
HoosierHawk
July 1st, 2010
9:19 pm
We also need a backup SF. Moe is really a SG. If we could get rid of Bibby and let Jamal play point off the bench that would be ok. But otherwise Moe gets beat by a true SF, or he plays the 2 and Jordan Crawford doesn’t ever play.
Astro Joe
July 1st, 2010
9:21 pm
TS, we’ll see. But if we start reading rumors about Mark Blount, Johan Petro or Kwame Brown, don’t be shocked.
ATown Vet
July 1st, 2010
9:30 pm
HoopsHype headline Hawks shopping Marvin.
http://hoopshype.com/
JIMMYMACK
July 1st, 2010
9:31 pm
MC what’s the status of Larry Drew’s assistant coaches?
Najeh Davenpoop
July 1st, 2010
9:33 pm
The Bucks are about to give John Salmons Marvin Williams money.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 1st, 2010
9:35 pm
The SFGate.com article linked to by HoopsHype suggests that Trevor Ariza and/or Shane Battier might be in play for Marvin. I am not buying into that. From the Hawks’ point of view, swapping Marvin for either of those guys is a pipe dream.
JeJe
July 1st, 2010
9:48 pm
Trade Duck NOW for anything
JeJe
July 1st, 2010
9:49 pm
MICHAEL MORON JR SAID THAT THE HAWKS WOULD REACT WHEN JJ HIT THE MARKET ON JULY 1. HOW ARE U REACTING IF U IMMEDIATELY OFFER A MAX EXTENSION
JESUS
doc
July 1st, 2010
9:54 pm
truth serum:
“All the hawks need is a “bona fide” center and a smart ballhandling point guard (doesnt have to be a super star) and we are on.”
truth the sad thing it doesnt take much to get us giddy does it? what you said has been said over and over again on this blog for about four years. i guess i better wait before i get too excited like something different besides status qua or the “we tried” mea culpa.
meh
July 1st, 2010
9:56 pm
i think they should have offered less and then went up if needed. no sense blowing all your money if you don’t need too.
doc
July 1st, 2010
9:57 pm
najeh, i think you misread it meaning besides marvin the warriors were going to inquire to see if those two guys were available.
Sage
July 1st, 2010
10:16 pm
I can’t even begin to understand why The Hawks would even want that scrub back.Every post season he chokes big time and on top of that he disrespected the city and fans during the dismal playoffs.It just seems to me that ASG don’t want to win.There is no way that mumbling fool should get that much money.
Melvin
July 1st, 2010
10:28 pm
Uh oh, look like the Hawks are shopping Marvin
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/warriors/detail?blogid=39&entry_id=67057
Melvin
July 1st, 2010
10:32 pm
Astro,
I can live with Kwame Brown. We better do our FA shopping early b/c once some of these teams with cap space continue to missed out on the big prize Free Agents, they are going to swoop up the mid-level Free Agents and probably over pay them out of desperation…
JeJe
July 1st, 2010
10:34 pm
The Warriors are depleted at SF after trading Maggs, so they are desperate for one. They must also be trying to rid themselves of Monta.
Give them Bibby and Marvin (both West Coast natives) for Monta. Solid trade for both teams and will wake Marvin up in a better system
Najeh Davenpoop
July 1st, 2010
10:34 pm
“najeh, i think you misread it”
Haha yeah I realized that after a while…
Section 303
July 1st, 2010
10:35 pm
northcyde, all Joe Johnson has to do is apologize and I’m over it. Until then, I’m still mad. And, will boo him the first chance I get. It may not bother you that he said those things, but it does me.
ignition
July 1st, 2010
10:36 pm
Dwight Howard is not the only reason we got swept, bad coaching played the majority factor. A new approach in style especially offensively, will greatly help this team. Having JJ back with Josh & Al creates a very formiable team, a team that will be hard to defend offensively once someone with vision implements their philosophy. (hopefully thats JD) I watch a lot of hoops and honestly I think we can contend with the right approach.
Starters:
Teague
JJ
Chillz
Josh
Horford
Bench:
Bibby
Crawford
Marvin
Randolph Morris (I think he could come off the bench)
Za Za
I’m sorry thats a damn good squad that can and should compete for a Title.
JeJe
July 1st, 2010
10:36 pm
Marvin and Bibby for Monta, Josh for Al Jeff
Ellis / Teague
Jamal / Mo
Joe / Mo
Horford / FA big
Al Jeff / ZaZa
A little weak on defense but this team would beast
drmaryb
July 1st, 2010
10:36 pm
Joe was not signed to articulate words and give great interviews. He was signed to play basketball,
and based on that long line outside his door. He does that VERY VERY well.
NY offered him the Max they were allowed as well. Dallas? Who knows what they offered? They have no cap space and their own UFA to sign.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 1st, 2010
10:40 pm
5 years, $30 million for Channing Frye.
Section 303
July 1st, 2010
10:40 pm
I would love to see the Hawks go after Chuck Hayes. He would be a great add. Tough player, will always rebound, and always play hard. Three qualities that the Hawks need.
I’m starting to have some faith in Sund.
JoJo the Godfather
July 1st, 2010
10:44 pm
Anyone surprised that Korver seems to be getting snubbed by Utah?…I’d take that kid on my team any day.
BosnianBaller
July 1st, 2010
10:47 pm
At least ASG is commited to winning. Bad choice or not. I like Joe and i’m glad we will have him back. At least ASG wants to win. We havn’t had much of that with the Hawks before. Hawks baby!!!
Truth-Serum
July 1st, 2010
10:50 pm
Astro Joe youre making me laugh! I hope not. Its like Doc is saying, “how long have we been calling for this?” No, it doesnt take much to make us giddy. We just want to keep it real. I guess you re right Joe, Doc, Well just have to wait and see.
Truth-Serum
July 1st, 2010
10:51 pm
One things for sure, if Cunningham’s reporting it, then its probably a legit story.
real truth
July 1st, 2010
10:52 pm
Just read on hoopshype that the Hawks have duck on the trade block. Golden st. has some interest but it didn’t say who they would like to send in return.
Section 303
July 1st, 2010
10:55 pm
If it is true that the Hawks could potentially land Monta Ellis for Marvin, than the Warriors are now my 2nd favorite team. That would make two years in-a-row that the Warriors have given the Hawks a great trade. First, Jamal Crawford for Law and Speedy. Now, maybe, Ellis for Marvin! Gotta love Golden State!
JeJe
July 1st, 2010
11:03 pm
“They would still want to add more talent, including a starting-caliber center, and Hawks owners are willing to pay the NBA’s luxury tax “for the right player,” according to the person.”
The ASG said the same garbage last year. The thing is, neither they nor our genius GM Sund (who drafted Swift, Sene, and Petro in 3 consecutive years), have any idea who “the right player” is.
JSS
July 1st, 2010
11:04 pm
@ Melvin…
What’s the contract situation in terms of the Hawks available cap space with the Denver 3rd string center Johan Petro and the Lakers’ D.J. Mbenga since they are both UFA’s?
Jody
July 1st, 2010
11:07 pm
Okay, what’s the deal with Joe? No word of him accepting the deal. What’s left for this cat to ponder? Fish or cut bait.