Atlanta Hawks: Waiting on J.J. (UPDATE: J.J. expected to accept offer in second meeting)
Assuming he can use an extra $25 million or so, J.J. willl be back. (Bob Rosato/SI)
(UPDATE: A person with knowledge of the process said the Hawks are to meet with J.J. again in L.A. with the expectation that the two sides will work out the details of a contract agreement.)
What’s up, blog people? Shaking off the cobwebs after staying up way too late and obsessively checking the Blackberry for some confirmation that J.J. accepted Atlanta’s maximium contract offer. No official word on that yet but my prediction that there’s no way he (or any other older free agent) leaves that much cash on the table is looking pretty good. I’ll update as the day goes along.
After Rick Sund met with Joe and his agent to extend the offer, the Knicks made their pitch to him. The Heat also are trying to get in the running. The Mavs also want to get an audience with Joe even though they have no cap room.
None of those teams has Atlanta’s $27 million advantage. Sure, J.J. could try to force a sign-and-trade to one of those teams and still get his Bird rights money, but that would require an agreement between the Hawks and the new team. Why go through all of that when a max offer is sitting in front of him?
Also, while the Hawks aren’t a championship-level team, they are better right now than any of the teams with the cap space to offer J.J. the max. Sure, those teams all can get better by making moves, but this is another area where J.J. has what he wants in front of him so why take a chance somewhere else? The Hawks are going to have to get creative to improve the team once J.J. re-signs but they already have a good team.
It seems much of the league was surprised that the Hawks offered the maximum. I couldn’t find anyone who predicted J.J. would re-sign in Atlanta, probably because no one believed ASG would spend the money. NBA.com’s David Aldridge says Sund and his people (who’ve always been big J.J. fans) had to convince the owners to make the investment. Aldridge also amplified what I said in yesterday’s blog about future trading possibilities for J.J.:
“And if the Hawks don’t break through in the East in the next couple of seasons, Johnson will only be 31 in the summer of 2012, and still have a lot of teams interested in his services. You can always trade him, the argument went; someone will rise up in the next few years into contender status, and teams on the rise tend to be more willing to go all-in for a year or two and make a trade for a high-priced player.”
That happens all the time in the NBA. It’s why when Michael Gearon Jr was lamenting that Jermaine O’Neal was overpaid last season, I was thinking that O’Neal still got traded along to Toronto and then later to Miami after the Pacers gave him a big-money deal. This was after he proved to be injury-prone and unable to get them over the top.
Aldridge ended his post with a sentiment I saw expressed by other reporters on Twitter last night: “It no doubt also came up that it’s highly unlikely that the current Atlanta Spirit ownership group will still be in charge of the Hawks in six years. Johnson’s due bill will be someone else’s problem by then.”
If that indeed is part of their rationale, it’s obviously a cynical point of view. From a practical standpoint it’s also risky since no one is lining up to buy sports teams nowadays. More likely, the Hawks figure they can always move J.J. later and start over if things don’t work out. It’s not an unrealistic expectation.
MC
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444 comments Add your comment
Rondo
July 1st, 2010
5:53 pm
Who is the better RifleMan in nba history Chuck Person or Gilbert Arenas
ReddJonn68
July 1st, 2010
5:54 pm
Hey Najeh have you seen Gadzuric’s playoff stats 2.7 ppg-3.4 rpg-0.1 apg. Not exactly the “QuickerFixerUpper ” we need a the center spot.
cp
July 1st, 2010
5:56 pm
I just came back to see if they had finally shipped off Marvin and BIbby. If all we can get back is Dan Gadzuric then hell I would rather keep Duck and Bibby. I would like Anthony Randolph and Reggie Williams. Hell Brandon Wright and Williams. I don’t know if Reggie’s number were a product of the Golden State system but he still showed me more than Marvin has. Get this deal done.
drmaryb
July 1st, 2010
5:56 pm
I’m a Soul_Star!
Yeah baby girl, I had to stop taking to these looney tunes. A total waste iof
Valueable time IMO. Viral-Serum got kicked to the curb yesterday – you never know
who you’re talking to with that narcissistic – sociopath. (he’s either gonna hurt himself or others)
Don’t want that mess on my clean hands. Turn that over to a higher power!
All these other people, I haver never heard of & I have learned so much
from Ken Strickland (the capologist) and Astro Joe and many other ICONS -
too many to name ? OBRIEN, Blu-Ray, MC., Vava, Grand-Daddy, Manny T. & of course
I’m a SOUL-STAR, Etc.
We don’t always agree – but, we RESPECT each others varied and valid opinions!
Great character bloggers!
BWIBO. (blogging with iconic bloggers only)
drmaryb
July 1st, 2010
6:01 pm
Sautee is an ICONIC BLOGGER big-time. I have mad love and respect for him and his
Wife and Daughter too! Blu-Ray schooled me on him too!
ryan
July 1st, 2010
6:04 pm
You the Joe Johnson deal is not that bad but did see what the stupid Timberwolves gave Darko 20 mill now that is the dumbest move of all time.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 1st, 2010
6:04 pm
“Hey Najeh have you seen Gadzuric’s playoff stats 2.7 ppg-3.4 rpg-0.1 apg. Not exactly the “QuickerFixerUpper ” we need a the center spot.”
Not saying he is, but he is an expiring contract and at worst is still probably no worse than Zaza. Sure, the Hawks can ask for someone like Anthony Randolph to be thrown in — I like Randolph’s game and I’d love to see him in a Hawks uniform. But even if the Hawks can only get a lottery-protected 1st rounder thrown in with Gadzuric, I think the cleared cap space alone is a victory for the Hawks.
ReddJonn68
July 1st, 2010
6:05 pm
Ouch !!!!! Have you guys read the YAHOO Sports arcticle on J.J. by Kelly Dwyer !!! Ouch !!!!! Talk about brutal, I thought this blog was harsh. Their comparing our offer to J.J. to Eddie Curry’s current deal. Trajic Trajedy !!!!!
terrell
July 1st, 2010
6:08 pm
Keeping JJ will look a WHOLE lot better if we can rid ourselves of Marvin’s contract. Get it done Sund. Cant believe you let Woody talk you into re-signing him to begin with.
Rod from College Park
July 1st, 2010
6:09 pm
If we get anything for Marvin I’d be happy. Hell, I’d be happy if we did not get anything back. At least I would not have to look at him stumbling, and getting his shot blocked by point guards. You could pay any free-agent out of college $200,000 to give us what he does. Hope the Hawks get it done.
ReddJonn68
July 1st, 2010
6:10 pm
Agreed Najeh, even if we clear the cap space, he’s gonna be more dead weight on an already awful bench. I like Randolph, but who are we suppose to sign with extra money next year.
Sautee
July 1st, 2010
6:10 pm
Jesse,
You DO realize (don’t you?) that in order to do a sign and trade with the Wizards, that Joe would have to WANT to go there?
Can you truly imagine that?
Hint: he’s an UNRESTRICTED Free Agent. Key word: UNRESTRICTED
Which means it’s NOT up to the Hawks where he goes.
Geez. -sigh-
terrell
July 1st, 2010
6:16 pm
Glad to see that Sund knows that he made a mistake when he let Woody talk him into signing these 2 bums. lol!
Jay Dubu
July 1st, 2010
6:16 pm
The Hawks finally show some guts, and the blog erupts with disbelief. Rememner, the Hawks were able to trade Sheldon Williams, so there are teams with which they can make a deal to get oplayers to go along with JJ.
They have a plan, and we should give them time to execute the plan before we jump on, and complain about every step of the plan.
Individually, the steps (1st being JJ at max, which they have to do to keep him) may not look promising, but let’s see what else is coming.
Once the smoke clears, we can evaluate the changes.
Roland
July 1st, 2010
6:17 pm
Najeh, what is with all of this negativity toward Marvin and Bibby? These are still two very serviceable players. Bibby has a lot of experience and has some bragging rights from his hey-day. I know he’s declined significantly, particularly in terms of speed and defensive capability (although he was never an exception defender to be begin with), but I still see him as an effective role player in many systems. Marvin on the other hand still has a lot of upside. There are not a lot of 6′9″ 240 lb. guys with the speed, versatility, and skill set that this guy has. Honestly, people don’t seem to be looking at the big picture here. There are a lot of complaints about Marvin’s lack of production, but what do you expect. He has extremely limited opportunities when you consider that JJ, Jamal, Josh, and Al are all scoring options before him. He doesn’t exactly have a niche in this system, as other players on his team already do what he does best better than him. Still, don’t underestimate this guy’s value.
By the way, are you serious about the Dan Gadzuric trade? You’ve got to be kidding me. Gadzuric is basically a bench warmer at this point, and a third string back-up at best. You don’t trade a young, versatile player with a reasonable contract for a bench energetic bench warmer. It would be like trading mario west for Dahntay Jones or Brandon Rush. Keep in mind that two seasons ago, before the arrival of Jamal Crawford, when Marvin had a larger role as a scorer on the team, he averaged close to 16 ppg, 7 rpg. Those are respectable numbers.
I’m not saying Marvin is a potential all-star or all-nba caliber player, but if the Hawks want to trade him, they should at least try to get equitable value in return. I’d like to hear the reasoning behind the Marvin haters for once rather than bold insults.
Jay Dubu
July 1st, 2010
6:20 pm
@ReddJonn68, they have to write something, and most times they’re going to favor a piece that’s going to attract attention instead of an informative piece. I wouldn’t put to much though into the article…It’s their opinion. They just happen to get paid for sharing it with us. Doesn’t make it more right than ours.
tdkflorida
July 1st, 2010
6:22 pm
This has got to be the dumbest contract offer I have ever seen!! You are going to pay a second option player 20 million a year for 6 years. I think the Hawks executives must be smoking crack. I be Dwayne Wade would have took that deal. Boy, I can’t think of a bigger waste of money.
Dumb! Dumb! Dumb!
drmaryb
July 1st, 2010
6:28 pm
terrell
(Don’t call me te-relle!). Another ICONIC blogger. ‘fo reel!
Yeah man, allegedly the shooting occurred one block away and it came from the direction of Vicks vehicle?
His Lawyer told investigators that Vick was long – gone before the shooting, but the restaurant’s surveillance video proves that was not the case! Thus, 207 AM vs 210 AM.
Allegedly at the party, Vick’s fiance was feeding him some birthday cake (like a bride and groom), when
Quanis shoved her hand into Vick’s face. After, that incident Vick and his crew left…
apparently at 207 AM. Allegedly, Roddy White was with him, but I hope NOT and IDK about that at all.
But, apparently he was interviewed and supported Vick’s initial story re: being long gone?
The whole incident smells like “Hot Garbage!”.
JSS
July 1st, 2010
6:28 pm
@ Everyone…
All of the really good “sign and trade” partners have fallen away like dominoes rather quickly. Salmons and Gay signed new deals that are inflated and meant to deter suitors. Unless you are going to go with massive deal and are rebuilding, there just aren’t good deals if these signings are accurate!
terrell
July 1st, 2010
6:29 pm
Roland, if other players on the team does things that he does, better than him, why do we need him? I’m listening.
Roland
July 1st, 2010
6:32 pm
terrell, I’m not saying we necessarily need him. I’m just saying, if we trade him, we should not trade him away for nothing. We should look to at least get close to equal value, if possible.
terrell
July 1st, 2010
6:32 pm
If someone shoved my wife’s hand into my face, I might pull out the glock my dam. self. lol!
Roland
July 1st, 2010
6:34 pm
Honestly, I think that based upon LD’s early descriptions of the new offensive system, Childress sounds like a better fit than Marvin for the SF position. He’s a lot more effective without the ball than Marvin is.
terrell
July 1st, 2010
6:35 pm
Roland, I think we’re trying to clear up space for players that can ACTUALLY PLAY. So we’re not trading him away for nothing.
Rod from College Park
July 1st, 2010
6:36 pm
Roland,
“Marvin on the other hand still has a lot of upside. There are not a lot of 6′9″ 240 lb. guys with the speed, versatility, and skill set that this guy has.”
Please help me understand what versatility he has? What do you consider upside? He can only play and guard one position, and he can’t do that. Speed? Not sure where that comes from. I have seen everyone on our staring unit except Bibby, beat Marvin back on D. What good is it to be 6′9, if you play like you are 6′1?
terrell
July 1st, 2010
6:36 pm
And we might land us a backup big with an expiring in the process.
terrell
July 1st, 2010
6:37 pm
Rod is in the house. lol!
terrell
July 1st, 2010
6:38 pm
Rod, I knew you’d come around if we were discussing a possible trade involving Marvin. lol!
Rod from College Park
July 1st, 2010
6:44 pm
terrell,
I will actually keep my season tickets if we get rid of him. If he’s back I’m done. Everyone’s upset about JJ, I still pissed about Marvin’s resigning last year.
ReddJonn68
July 1st, 2010
6:44 pm
@Jay Dubu just check out the article they do have their facts together as stated by tdkflorida.
drmaryb
July 1st, 2010
6:46 pm
Redjohn68
Yahoo Sports Writers?
Sour Grapes! Their dog in the fight got his but whipped! Now, the other teams gotta suck lemons because
they can’t get Joe on the cheap! Otherwise, why do they care what Joe was offered?
It’s NOT their money & it’s NOT their team?
Eddie Curry? Give me a break! Eddie played 3 games year before last & 7 games last year. His paycheck is
being garnished top pay for some of the 12 cars he refuses to pay for voluntarily.
He made 10.2M last year and his house in Chicago is foreclosed on. He owes Juan Howard 575K and won’t pay him either. Now he wants a loan. Has a player option next year for 11.2M next year.
The Knicks got Jacked and you think JOE wants to play with that dude and that team?
You think Sund is a DUMB GM? Try Donnie Walsh – he should be fired!
I read that on the Scottie Pippen link, regarding financial woes of NBA players from the early ’90’s.
Rick Mahorn in there too. Bankruptcy CH7, house foreclosed, sold his Championship Ring – etc.
Eddie Curry in the same article!
Eddie Curry couldn’t SNIFF Joe’s Jock in 59M years! The amount he did not earn in 9 Years!
Consider the Source, when you read the media! That would be prudent!
Najeh Davenpoop
July 1st, 2010
6:47 pm
New blog is up by the way…
terrell
July 1st, 2010
6:51 pm
Phil Jackson has a chance for his 4th 3 peat next year. Wow! I’d say, that’s enough to come back for. lol!
Roland
July 1st, 2010
6:52 pm
Rod from College Park,
Marvin is 24 years old, it’s foolish to think that he has peaked at this point in his career, and most of us don’t have an accurate idea of how effective he’d be in a system that placed him with a larger offensive role. In terms of speed, keep in mind that Marvin is 6′9″ with weight ranging between 235 and 240 lbs. He’s basically the size of a PF, yet he is capable of guarding positions 2 – 4 (SG, SF, PF). He is an underrated 1 vs. 1 defender. If you watch game tape closely, he usually does a pretty effective job of guarding players of his same natural position (SF). Also, the guy is pretty athletic and has shown flashes of talent over the years, I just think he is missing the passion and motivation to really develop that talent. He hasn’t been able to flourish yet in atlanta, which isn’t that surprising to me, but I wouldn’t be shocked if he ended up being an effective starter on a lower tier team.
Also, you mention that you saw just about everyone on the team, except for Mike Bibby beat him up the floor. I’m not sure how true this is, but the statement is not that surprising considering most of the guys he plays alongside are guards, with the exception of Al and Josh. So, honestly, those guys should be beating him up the floor. Also, Josh and Al are exceptionally quick for their positions, so it’s not necessarily an insult to Marvin if those guys look superior to him in physical ability. Lastly, I think Marvin’s slow trotting at times is more a result of his lack of motivation than his physical ability.
Do you remember how Marvin played during the latter portion of the ‘08 – ‘09 season when JJ was out due to injury? I was actually pretty impressed. He was very aggressive on offense and even managed to get to the free throw line with consistency. That’s another one of his upsides. I definitely think he’s a guy with pockets of potential in various areas, but I’m unsure of whether he’ll ever truly develop and utilize his skills to the fullest extent. I think Marvin needs someone to rekindle his fire and push him harder, and I doubt Atlanta is the place where that will happen. Marvin is somewhat of a big gamble, you can’t really tell what you are going to get out of him. But as a 5th option, I wouldn’t expect much, which is why I think trading him is not a bad idea. Still, he’s not just a player you throw away, so the trade better be worthwhile.
ReddJonn68
July 1st, 2010
6:55 pm
@drmaryb like it or not players will be judged by their playoff performances,Joe is a very capable NBA player but at that price Joe is not & never will be a LEADER he is at best a second tier player. Joe did nothing to increase his value to the tune of 20mil a yr. I’m sorry just the facts mam.
The Boss
July 1st, 2010
6:57 pm
JJ’s contract of 2010 = John Koncak’s contract of the 80’s
Luke Cage
July 1st, 2010
6:59 pm
Rudy Gay is returning to Memphis. And owner Michael Heisley doesn’t care if anybody is saying the Grizzlies overpaid to get him back. “I think there’s always comments and so on,” Heisley said in an interview Thursday with FanHouse after the restricted free agent had agreed to return to Memphis on a five-year, $82 million contract. “But from our point of view we feel that it was a fair deal and I think Rudy feels it’s a fair deal. He’s happy with it. A happy player does a lot better than a player that accepts something reluctantly. I think it’s a good deal for both parties, and that’s the best kind of deal you can find.”
Same thing goes for Joe, who knows maybe we can become a championship team, who thought OKC would make the leap they made, so just lets so how things work out without feeling its Armagaddon.
There are going to be alot of guys getting alot of money, thats the way it is in professional sports. Again like i’ve been saying why are you people so angry, yeah Joe may get overpaid but its not coming out of your pockets so who cares, no matter what this franchise does people will blog about how bad a mistake it was, if you don’t like the move then oh well because we all know its going to happen, you can either support the team or do what most alleged Hawk fans do, DON’T SUPPORT THEM.
Its just constant cryin n whining on this blog daily by the majority, like I said if you don’t like it then continue your fairweather fandom where ever LBJ goes.
ReddJonn68
July 1st, 2010
7:01 pm
@ drmaryb To be totally honest that’s why I mentioned that they put Eddie Currry’s name in the same article as Joe to show the point of view other than our Hawk’s fans. As I said before Trajic Trajedy !!!!!
Luke Cage
July 1st, 2010
7:02 pm
Amazing Rashard Lewis is garbage and not even close to the player Joe is and he is on a Max deal and no way is he close to earning that, yet nobody crying about that. Come to think of it anyone the Hawks bring in you guys will bash it LOL, sometimes it gets real comical here
ReddJonn68
July 1st, 2010
7:07 pm
I disagree Luke Cage, Magic fans are crying foul like a lot Hawks fans after the playoffs did you see some of the stuff they wrote about Lewis after his playoff disapperance !!
Luke Cage
July 1st, 2010
7:09 pm
This is Rashards 3rd year with them, nobody was complaining when he first signed
drmaryb
July 1st, 2010
7:14 pm
Redjohn68
Neither did a long list of other so called superstars. If you’re talking about scoring?
Ray Allen completely disappeared after Game 1, KG was no where to be found!
Paul Pierce sucked too. Their Bench Play, HC, Rondo and team defense took them as far as they could go!
Kobe had 11 assist in Game 7, but couldn’t throw a rock on the ocean. Artest won game 7,
We can do this all day,
LeBron just flat out stopped playing and sulked to everyone’s
chagrin! Something about team chemistry and DeLonte West doing his Mother. Eric Snow
Said it to adnauseum-sp, “What is wrong with the alleged Best Player in the World?”
In time outs, he was sitting away from the team and POUTING!
Tim Duncan faded hard, Dwight was a super-bust against Charlotte and averaged 3 pts per game from the bench. He was even worse against Boston – because his team got beat down by old guys!
You can spread poor play-off performances around like peanut butter on white bread!
Only one team WON! I don’t see anyone trading their stars and we only have 1!
Joe plays with no PG and no true Center! So, what were you saying? H E L L O!
ReddJonn68
July 1st, 2010
7:29 pm
@drmaryb Every single player you just named have made at least one or two solid showings in the playoffs & don’t forget what Pierce did before the Big Three came along so those points have nothing whatsoever to do with Joe, he needs step it up PERIOD !!!
Luke Cage
July 1st, 2010
7:31 pm
@drmaryb
THANKS, tryin to explain that for weeks but all they can see is JOE don’t deserve this and JOE don’t deserve that
Luke Cage
July 1st, 2010
7:32 pm
I recall a couple of games in Atl against the celts where Joe stepped up big time, What did pierce do before the big 3, score and LOSE!!!! He is a great player because he got better talent to come in
ReddJonn68
July 1st, 2010
7:38 pm
@Luke Cage Ahh Pierce has a RING and the year he won it Rondo didn’t do jack, when we stop making excuses for Joe maybe we’ll get a little more productivity when it actually counts. Now that he’s gonna get paid, can he just give us some return on our investment !!!
Luke Cage
July 1st, 2010
7:40 pm
LOL guessin Ray & KG along with other key vets didn’t help at all, but hey your right, root for the celts then, but wait Pierce is about to get a big deal at 33 and we know his skills have diminished, oh well guess its just Joe lol
RealSquawk
July 1st, 2010
7:40 pm
I am sorry, but doesn’t this not worry anyone about their willingness to spend more money when a very desirable Al Horford will be on the market and maybe willing and looking to leave?
Luke Cage
July 1st, 2010
7:45 pm
These Bloggers here will complain when its Al’s turn also
Jeff D.
July 1st, 2010
8:04 pm
Pass on Joe. Let Drew run the show and let’s move forward!