Atlanta Hawks: Waiting on J.J. (UPDATE: J.J. expected to accept offer in second meeting)
Assuming he can use an extra $25 million or so, J.J. willl be back. (Bob Rosato/SI)
(UPDATE: A person with knowledge of the process said the Hawks are to meet with J.J. again in L.A. with the expectation that the two sides will work out the details of a contract agreement.)
What’s up, blog people? Shaking off the cobwebs after staying up way too late and obsessively checking the Blackberry for some confirmation that J.J. accepted Atlanta’s maximium contract offer. No official word on that yet but my prediction that there’s no way he (or any other older free agent) leaves that much cash on the table is looking pretty good. I’ll update as the day goes along.
After Rick Sund met with Joe and his agent to extend the offer, the Knicks made their pitch to him. The Heat also are trying to get in the running. The Mavs also want to get an audience with Joe even though they have no cap room.
None of those teams has Atlanta’s $27 million advantage. Sure, J.J. could try to force a sign-and-trade to one of those teams and still get his Bird rights money, but that would require an agreement between the Hawks and the new team. Why go through all of that when a max offer is sitting in front of him?
Also, while the Hawks aren’t a championship-level team, they are better right now than any of the teams with the cap space to offer J.J. the max. Sure, those teams all can get better by making moves, but this is another area where J.J. has what he wants in front of him so why take a chance somewhere else? The Hawks are going to have to get creative to improve the team once J.J. re-signs but they already have a good team.
It seems much of the league was surprised that the Hawks offered the maximum. I couldn’t find anyone who predicted J.J. would re-sign in Atlanta, probably because no one believed ASG would spend the money. NBA.com’s David Aldridge says Sund and his people (who’ve always been big J.J. fans) had to convince the owners to make the investment. Aldridge also amplified what I said in yesterday’s blog about future trading possibilities for J.J.:
“And if the Hawks don’t break through in the East in the next couple of seasons, Johnson will only be 31 in the summer of 2012, and still have a lot of teams interested in his services. You can always trade him, the argument went; someone will rise up in the next few years into contender status, and teams on the rise tend to be more willing to go all-in for a year or two and make a trade for a high-priced player.”
That happens all the time in the NBA. It’s why when Michael Gearon Jr was lamenting that Jermaine O’Neal was overpaid last season, I was thinking that O’Neal still got traded along to Toronto and then later to Miami after the Pacers gave him a big-money deal. This was after he proved to be injury-prone and unable to get them over the top.
Aldridge ended his post with a sentiment I saw expressed by other reporters on Twitter last night: “It no doubt also came up that it’s highly unlikely that the current Atlanta Spirit ownership group will still be in charge of the Hawks in six years. Johnson’s due bill will be someone else’s problem by then.”
If that indeed is part of their rationale, it’s obviously a cynical point of view. From a practical standpoint it’s also risky since no one is lining up to buy sports teams nowadays. More likely, the Hawks figure they can always move J.J. later and start over if things don’t work out. It’s not an unrealistic expectation.
MC
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444 comments Add your comment
Rondo
July 1st, 2010
4:32 pm
New York and New Jersey won’t get nothing this offseasin. What a shame. Don’t worry NYC yall will get Melo and all his tatoos next year!
FIRE HAWKS GM
July 1st, 2010
4:34 pm
So you mean to tell me we offering Jo Jo a 6 year 125 mil and a “NEW” TEAM FOR KING JAMES NEW YORK IS COURTING HIM AT 5 YEARS 95 MILLION OMG $#@%#%
Mike
July 1st, 2010
4:35 pm
MC, is there any talk of the chemistry issues that plagued them in the playoffs? According to Horford — who has as high a basketball IQ as anyone on the team — their problems stemmed from players not getting along. It doesn’t make sense to bring back the same group of players, then.
NEW HAWKS GM
July 1st, 2010
4:36 pm
LET JO GO
TAKE A LOOK AT THE BIBBY/MARVIN FOR MONTE ELLIS
SPEND MONEY ON A BIG MAN
3 SEED!
BigTimeTECHFan
July 1st, 2010
4:36 pm
That’s what Drew was talking about, 5 player getting major min that can give you 20 plus points. I like it. Sign JJ and get Ellis for Bibby and Williams sounds nice.
Michael Cunningham
July 1st, 2010
4:36 pm
@IndianaDawg: “Why is it that the Hawks management had all season to get this max contract done and didn’t and now all of a sudden, they’re jumping all over themselves to give Joe as much money as they can and get him signed? What changed? If anything, I thought Joe’s situation and playing got progressively worse as the season and especially during the playoffs.”
i think you have to look at the market. it’s happening everywhere. the Hawks don’t want to take a step back and replacing JJ would be difficult with their cap situation.
BigTimeTECHFan
July 1st, 2010
4:37 pm
NEW HAWKS GM – Thats good option also.
NEW HAWKS GM
July 1st, 2010
4:38 pm
OH WE MAY HAVE JUST MAY HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO INK A 2ND TIER FA I MEAN RICHARD JEFFERSON OR BIG’S IF WE SPEND LET IT BE ON BOOZER OR AMARE I DON’T BELIEVE IN THE BOSH HYPE!
Scoots
July 1st, 2010
4:39 pm
M.C. –
Ray Felton wants out of Charlotte, and they’re willing to do a SnT. What do you think about going after him using Childress?
nbasuperstar40
July 1st, 2010
4:40 pm
Hey Michael, it’s supes. If everything goes through (resigning JJ, blockbuster trade, good trade, etc) Do you see Phillips rocking like the Dome was when Vick was here?
south25
July 1st, 2010
4:41 pm
I hope you explore this about three years from now when the Hawks will have a salary cap nightmare. It is clear what he thought about the fans of Atlanta, Joe will take the money not give a total effort, see the last two years of the playoffs
Michael Cunningham
July 1st, 2010
4:41 pm
@ Mike: “MC, is there any talk of the chemistry issues that plagued them in the playoffs? According to Horford — who has as high a basketball IQ as anyone on the team — their problems stemmed from players not getting along. It doesn’t make sense to bring back the same group of players, then.”
i think the players got along for the most part, though there is room for improvement there. i think Horford’s point was that when things went bad on the court, it dissolved into finger-pointing and bickering and lack of effort. making that better is up to the players and L.D.
Chip Shot
July 1st, 2010
4:41 pm
what makes raymond felton so appealing to you people???? i mean what are you thinking? another bibby?
For Real
July 1st, 2010
4:41 pm
I would take:
Kevin Durrant – Small Forward and he is under contract
Manu Ginobili – Shooting Guard that doesn’t START for his own team
Brandon Roy – Point Guard and he is under contract
willie
July 1st, 2010
4:41 pm
Is he a superstar? No. Is he an all star? Yes. And all stars get paid. Nobody else any better will take the Hawks money. They had to get the best guy they could get and that is Joe. Hopefully, we get get lucky and find a big man somehow, even though they are tough to find.
harry the hawk
July 1st, 2010
4:42 pm
Hate to say it but you can always count on the Hawks to make the wrong move at the right time…first Larry drew and now a max contract for Joe Johnson (who on ELITE teams would be a second OR third option)
Seems like Hawks fans are always being fed leftovers and expected to react as if it’s prime rib
terrell
July 1st, 2010
4:42 pm
Bucks about to sign Samons to a 5 year 39 mill$ deal. Around 8 mill a year. Isnt that about what Marvin got last year?
Michael Cunningham
July 1st, 2010
4:43 pm
@south25: “I hope you explore this about three years from now when the Hawks will have a salary cap nightmare. It is clear what he thought about the fans of Atlanta, Joe will take the money not give a total effort, see the last two years of the playoffs.”
if i’m still covering the team i surely will. there are obvious risks for the Hawks in this deal–that’s why i linked to the blogs that raised some of the issues. i’m just trying to explain the best i can their rationale behind the decision, and then smart readers can make up their own minds. you don’t need me for that.
drmaryb
July 1st, 2010
4:44 pm
Soloman Alabi
For all the Solomon Alabi lovers? He slipped to #50 because he tested + Hepatitis B.
I hope that helps us understand. Medical Records are supposed to be private, so IDK how
this leaked out?
This diagnosis is not the best to have.
IndianaDawg
July 1st, 2010
4:44 pm
Michael, thanks for the response. You’re completely right, but weren’t the free agents that are out there now and the market the same at the beginning of the season as they are now? No new super free agents have come about have they? I just wonder why we are all of a sudden so desperate to keep Joe? Maybe changing coaches really did have something to do with things, especially since Joe so kindly let the fans know what he thought about them under the previous coach. You would think by those comments and Joe’s frustration that he was planning on being out.
Scoots
July 1st, 2010
4:44 pm
chip shot: what do you mean ‘you people’?
BigTimeTECHFan
July 1st, 2010
4:44 pm
Michael Cunningham – your right, The dollars don’t matter much right now, it about putting best team possible on the court, I think Spirit are doing right thing. If they lose JJ, they are not going to attract a better player.
I don’t care about the money I already can’t afford tickets. We are not getting D Wade, LeBron, Bosh, or any of the other guys, best option is to keep Johnson. Only other option is fire sale and hope for the upcoming drafts, they are so close with Johnson and team they got, they need to sign him and tweek it up a little by offering Bibby and Williams and see what they can get. Looks like the owners are on the right course.
eh
July 1st, 2010
4:46 pm
it doesn’t seem like he would be “the man” on any other team so no other team would pay him like he’s “the man”. therefore he could probably be had for less than the max.
i_am_soulstar
July 1st, 2010
4:46 pm
If the Hawks are attempting to trade Marvin w/o acquiring a small forward in the deal, that most likely means they want Childress starting at the small forward position.
Terrell
July 1st, 2010
4:47 pm
Erik,
Here’s the problem with you idea. If we do a sign and trade then the team we would agree to make this deal would either have to be well under the cap so we can get a cheaper or if they are over the cap they would have to make an equal trade meaning they would have to give one of their player or players the same amount of money to equal Joe’s contract. I don’t see anybody out there that would be worth it, and this would not only set us back now but for a long time, because even if we did have the money in the future nobody would want to come to Atlanta because we wouldn’t have anything to offer. At least if we get Joe back we can save face and show teams that the front office isn’t as cheap as they seem.
i_am_soulstar
July 1st, 2010
4:47 pm
ASG is on the right track (for now).
Spudster
July 1st, 2010
4:48 pm
Nobody is worth that kind of money to play a friggin game, Joe is a B level player, what a waste, let JJ walk this deal will cripple the Hawks for a long time, also put Bibby, Marvin, & Coach Drew on the same bus outta here!
Michael Cunningham
July 1st, 2010
4:48 pm
@IndianaDawg: by “market” i meant they didn’t know how much interest Joe would get from other teams. technically they couldn’t offer Joe a contract until FA started though i’m sure they could have let him know unofficially that as it turns out, he got a lot. but, yeah, they probably had to see that he would get interest just because of all the teams with cap space.
nobody
July 1st, 2010
4:50 pm
http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA
apparently Chillz is the big winner of free agency. We wouldnt get anything for him if someone flat out outbid us right?
BigTimeTECHFan
July 1st, 2010
4:51 pm
eh – wrong, After Wade and LeBron sign, lets just say with their current teams, NY, Chicago, NJ, … will all be offering JJ the max. He and Bosh will be no 1 targets to get. They will have to do something to settle all the fans after clearing cap space for years for this F/A market, they have to something, JJ will get his max.
Rondo
July 1st, 2010
4:51 pm
MC
The hawks have a lot of side pieces they can move. What players do you feel will get the boot to another team for a needed upgrade?
mykhalc
July 1st, 2010
4:51 pm
@MC…maybe i should take J.J.’s agent in with me.
yep…AJC…ASG…close- enough!! you should come out a winner!!!LOL
Michael Cunningham
July 1st, 2010
4:51 pm
@ Big Time Tech: “We are not getting D Wade, LeBron, Bosh, or any of the other guys, best option is to keep Johnson”
well, Hawks could have let Joe walk or tried to get something in a sign-and-trade, even if it was just a pick and/or trade exception. but that would have meant taking a step back in the short term and they decided they didn’t want to do that. now they know they have to improve the team because changing coaches won’t be enough. if their plan doesn’t work, they know they will be criticized.
Chip Shot
July 1st, 2010
4:51 pm
@Scoots
the idiotic people who want to overpay for a sucky point guard errrhum cough cough YOU!!!
=IDIOT
RAY FELTON= SUCKS
IndianaDawg
July 1st, 2010
4:51 pm
That makes sense Michael. Thanks again for your insight and comments. Maybe under a new coach, Hawks fans will be suprised as to how well Joe will play and enjoy himself. Have a good 4th Michael!
John 'Contract' Koncak
July 1st, 2010
4:52 pm
Thank you J.J. – I look much better now
Scoots
July 1st, 2010
4:53 pm
Chip shot:
Relax. I was just having fun with you
hawk
July 1st, 2010
4:53 pm
John Koncak can now rest in peace.
Mike
July 1st, 2010
4:53 pm
MC, any word on the rumors about Marvin and Bibby?
Tron5000
July 1st, 2010
4:54 pm
I like JJ, but I think there are very few NBA players worth max money. Kobe, LeBron, Howard, Durant, Paul (maybe)…I think of max players as game changers. As in, any one of those guys can take over a game and be the difference between winning and losing. I think JJ is great with the right complementary pieces, but I also think he’s shown he’s not a game changer. I wonder if $20 million a season would be better spent on 2 pieces to the puzzle, rather than solely on JJ. Guess we’ll see.
robin crew
July 1st, 2010
4:54 pm
drmaryb
July 1st, 2010
4:44 pm
robin crew
July 1st, 2010
4:55 pm
why do people make up stuff they cant and dont prove?
drmaryb
July 1st, 2010
4:44 pm
Out Last
July 1st, 2010
4:55 pm
Last?
Rondo
July 1st, 2010
4:56 pm
Marvin and Bibby you are so FIRED
eh
July 1st, 2010
4:56 pm
ASG should try to work a trade for Brook Lopez from the Nets. Probably won’t happen. I just think the Hawks should go after a legit big man and move Horford to PF.
i_am_soulstar
July 1st, 2010
4:56 pm
nobody,
True story. But if the rumors are true and they ship Marvin and Bibby out of here, then will certainly have the cap space to match.
i_am_soulstar
July 1st, 2010
4:57 pm
Golden State is not going to trade Stephen Curry folks. They’re actually planning on building the team around him.
Glenn
July 1st, 2010
4:58 pm
If Bogut wasn’t injured we would have lost to the Bucks in the first round . This move does not make us any better next year . I just don’t understand why we can’t let JJ walk or do a sign & trade . There are other FA’s out there that can help us just as much . I have a question Michael . Why would we overspend so many millions for JJ but not pay market rate for a better HC candidate ? I see no sense in anything ASG has done since the playoffs .
Chip Shot
July 1st, 2010
4:59 pm
@Scoots
im relaxed, im just trying to tell you that ray felton oficcialy blows dong and nobody should sign him only a GM who will be fired the next year will sign him.
i_am_soulstar
July 1st, 2010
5:00 pm
drmaryb,
If that’s true, then that’s unfortunate. But was it acute or chronic? Because acute HepB usually clears up on it’s own in 6 months max.