Atlanta Hawks: Waiting on J.J. (UPDATE: J.J. expected to accept offer in second meeting)
Assuming he can use an extra $25 million or so, J.J. willl be back. (Bob Rosato/SI)
(UPDATE: A person with knowledge of the process said the Hawks are to meet with J.J. again in L.A. with the expectation that the two sides will work out the details of a contract agreement.)
What’s up, blog people? Shaking off the cobwebs after staying up way too late and obsessively checking the Blackberry for some confirmation that J.J. accepted Atlanta’s maximium contract offer. No official word on that yet but my prediction that there’s no way he (or any other older free agent) leaves that much cash on the table is looking pretty good. I’ll update as the day goes along.
After Rick Sund met with Joe and his agent to extend the offer, the Knicks made their pitch to him. The Heat also are trying to get in the running. The Mavs also want to get an audience with Joe even though they have no cap room.
None of those teams has Atlanta’s $27 million advantage. Sure, J.J. could try to force a sign-and-trade to one of those teams and still get his Bird rights money, but that would require an agreement between the Hawks and the new team. Why go through all of that when a max offer is sitting in front of him?
Also, while the Hawks aren’t a championship-level team, they are better right now than any of the teams with the cap space to offer J.J. the max. Sure, those teams all can get better by making moves, but this is another area where J.J. has what he wants in front of him so why take a chance somewhere else? The Hawks are going to have to get creative to improve the team once J.J. re-signs but they already have a good team.
It seems much of the league was surprised that the Hawks offered the maximum. I couldn’t find anyone who predicted J.J. would re-sign in Atlanta, probably because no one believed ASG would spend the money. NBA.com’s David Aldridge says Sund and his people (who’ve always been big J.J. fans) had to convince the owners to make the investment. Aldridge also amplified what I said in yesterday’s blog about future trading possibilities for J.J.:
“And if the Hawks don’t break through in the East in the next couple of seasons, Johnson will only be 31 in the summer of 2012, and still have a lot of teams interested in his services. You can always trade him, the argument went; someone will rise up in the next few years into contender status, and teams on the rise tend to be more willing to go all-in for a year or two and make a trade for a high-priced player.”
That happens all the time in the NBA. It’s why when Michael Gearon Jr was lamenting that Jermaine O’Neal was overpaid last season, I was thinking that O’Neal still got traded along to Toronto and then later to Miami after the Pacers gave him a big-money deal. This was after he proved to be injury-prone and unable to get them over the top.
Aldridge ended his post with a sentiment I saw expressed by other reporters on Twitter last night: “It no doubt also came up that it’s highly unlikely that the current Atlanta Spirit ownership group will still be in charge of the Hawks in six years. Johnson’s due bill will be someone else’s problem by then.”
If that indeed is part of their rationale, it’s obviously a cynical point of view. From a practical standpoint it’s also risky since no one is lining up to buy sports teams nowadays. More likely, the Hawks figure they can always move J.J. later and start over if things don’t work out. It’s not an unrealistic expectation.
MC
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444 comments Add your comment
Joe Johnson aka lil' rock
July 1st, 2010
3:58 pm
Ahhhh SNAP! Time to make it RAIN!!!!
rudy
July 1st, 2010
3:58 pm
plz hawks!!!!! rethink this max deal
terrell
July 1st, 2010
3:58 pm
Again, stop judging Al and Joe’s play, until you see them play in a ball movement offense and a man on man defense.
Michael Cunningham
July 1st, 2010
3:59 pm
@ Fresh: “The blog has been jumpin’ this offseason. You might want to hurry and ask AJC for a raise soon lol.”
maybe i should take J.J.’s agent in with me.
yardbird
July 1st, 2010
3:59 pm
Don’t know if this has been written, but IMO JJ is worth the money as one of the top players in the league, even if not a Kobe level superstar. The issue is really that the top guys salaries are kept artificially low by the CBAs max salary rules, else LeBron, Kobe & Co. would likely pull down $40-$50 mil per from deep pocket teams like the Knicks and Mavs.
Letting Joe go for nothing w/h/b a huge mistake, and all today’s naysayers w/b griping 2 years from now, with some $6 mil per replacement for Joe unable to get the team into the playoffs. Just my 2 cents.
BigTimeTECHFan
July 1st, 2010
4:00 pm
Other than Kobe and DWade, name another Shooting Guard in the NBA that’ better than Joe.
I would take:
Kevin Durrant
Manu Ginobili
Brandon Roy
Steve
July 1st, 2010
4:00 pm
It is interesting that many of the best programs in the NBA, and others want Joe – but some ATL fans don’t. What do they see that we don’t. Dallas, Houston, Chicago, Knicks, Nets, Heat, Clippers, T’Wolves all want JJ. Wade and LeBron want to play next to JJ. Wake up – dudes a good player – not a max player, but with cap coming down in the next couple of years, if we lost Joe, we couldn’t replace him.
Horford, Smith, Crawford, Williams will be eating up around 40m. a year after the 2010-11 season – then Pachulia 4.75m, Bibby 6m – we’re toast. We have to re-sign our own, and get pieces around them – unless a blockbuster trade were to come along. Just a fact guys.
BigMistake
July 1st, 2010
4:01 pm
This contract will remind us that the Hawks will always be the Hawks.
What a collosal mistake!! Get a real PG and some fundamental TEAM players…
Larry Jones
July 1st, 2010
4:02 pm
Jump shooter in the house!
Cday
July 1st, 2010
4:04 pm
If Joe does leave, Does anyone know what salary cap implications that has on the hawks? Does it leave us with any extra cash? Only wondering because of a story on SI that states the meetings went well with the Knicks. Just curious.
grave digger
July 1st, 2010
4:04 pm
FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> BasketbaThis team has reached its peak and now they need to shake things up big time.
Horford needs to be built around, u kidding me?
You want to build a team around Al Horford? lol. Raptors couldn’t build a successful team around Bosh but ok.
Horford as a PF not C
Doesn’t matter. He’s a 2nd tier PF regardless and Dwight Howard will own ATL all day long if they build around him even if they move him to PF. When you “build around” someone, that means they are your best player. If Al Horford is your #1 don’t expect to compete for championships.
Too soon to move Horford. Friendly contract plus team control next year, and he’s only an RFA after ‘11-’12.
jroc
July 1st, 2010
4:05 pm
Yeah MC this blogg has been killing this offseason and don’t let the big wigs say its just with all this free agent talk. I let Dled know this on his Falcon Blogg and he got mad and erased it. Keep up the good work man. Demand a raise or flip over a few desk like the teacher did on Lean On Me.
Tbird
July 1st, 2010
4:05 pm
Some of the comments here are amazing…now I will admit that I also think it not prudent to sign JJ to a 6 yr max deal…however, some of the same folks constantly moaning and complaining about how cheap ASG is are now moaning about their profligate spending!! Again, I think it is a questionable business decision but one that the Hawks were not in a good bargaining position because of the idiotic cap rules, to look in other directions. If there is no sign-trade in place and he accepts the Hawks are not “hopelessly strapped”. They will have a valuable chip in Jamal’s expiring contract as well as his ability to parlay into a big. They could potentially turn Josh Smith into say Al Jefferson…the Wolves now have four centers and no real power forward and have done more idiotic things than that.
NC Braves Fan
July 1st, 2010
4:06 pm
By the way, I think it should be pretty clear that the national “experts” have little respect for the Hawks team and the organization.
They paint the ASG as cheap and place Joe everywhere but here and then when the team moves aggressively to re-sign him in one place claim:
1. It’s the worst FA contract ever; and/or
2. It’s obviously a sign and trade with a mystery team that until late last night couldn’t speak with JJ.
I’d call “expert analysis” like that A$$clownery, but doing so would give A$$clowns a bad name.
Oz Wizard
July 1st, 2010
4:07 pm
KB
July 1st, 2010
3:57 pm
If I was Al Horford, I would leave town…. ask him if he needs tickets. I think we be fine with out Al
robin crew
July 1st, 2010
4:09 pm
grave digger
July 1st, 2010
4:04 pm
thats got to be the post of the day!
True Atlanta Fan
July 1st, 2010
4:10 pm
Under NO circumstances would I want Al to leave. He’s the heart and soul of this team. He never has had attitude problems like Josh and gives his 110% EVERY game.
Hopeful Hawks Fan
July 1st, 2010
4:11 pm
“The Hawks are said to be shopping Marvin Williams and Mike Bibby.
They’ve reportedly been contacted by the Warriors regarding Marvin, and it would not be surprising to see either player end up playing elsewhere next year.”
Update from rotoworld.com I don’t know how reliable the source is but I sure do hope there’s some truth behind this ‘rumor.’
jroc
July 1st, 2010
4:12 pm
Al is the only true professional player on the team if you don’t agree go to hawks.com and see how he interviews.
dap01
July 1st, 2010
4:13 pm
At the end of the day (or FA period) you will see that all the big name free agents were motivated most by money and less by getting on a better team.
cp
July 1st, 2010
4:14 pm
If that rumor about Marvin is true I would drive to Atlanta tonight to help him pack. Marvin for Anthony Randolph and other pieces?
Real Truth
July 1st, 2010
4:14 pm
Yahoo sports is calling this the worst contract in NBA history. I just read the story 5 minutes ago.
drmaryb
July 1st, 2010
4:14 pm
CDOG
In da house! No I never worked in Zebulon, GA. I have no idea, where that is?
Peachtree City (2007)
Roswel GA (currently)
Woodstock GA (currently)
What’s up cdog? How are you doing? Where did all these termites come out of the woodwork
from? They’re getting in at the end of a long conversation – clueless about:
Cap & Trade – ology! I can’t even read it! Got my Scroll – On big time today!
Rondo
July 1st, 2010
4:15 pm
Marin and Bibby! YOU”RE FIRED!
Mr. Phil
July 1st, 2010
4:15 pm
Warriors reportedly have talked to the Hawks about Marvin Williams…Hawks looking to deal Williams and Bibby for cap space. Warriors want to toss in Monta Ellis and get a couple draft picks.
BigTimeTECHFan
July 1st, 2010
4:15 pm
I leaning to hoping he signs. Yea he’s not a elite superstar, sure HoF’er, but he’s the next best thing. Plus people forget when he was with the Suns he shared the ball real well, was a lot better all-round player till Woodson got a hold of him. I think what Larry Drew is saying is exactly right, about a motion offense making JJ a better player. Making the defense focus on everyone in the lineup will help JJ a lot.
Reid Adair
July 1st, 2010
4:15 pm
Michael, you’re just here to cover the team? Seriously? Do you read your own work? Intentional or not, it’s clear ever since the playoff debacle that you support Joe Johnson and you want him back in Atlanta. The “Hey, I can’t say I told you so yet … but I told you so” in this article is the icing on the cake. It’s OK to not be objective. It’s a blog, not a news article.
You want to see Joe Johnson back as a Hawk, and you’re certainly entitled to that opinion. But as people who purchase tickets and support the franchise, there are folks (myself included) who don’t want Joe Johnson back as a Hawk.
ooor
July 1st, 2010
4:16 pm
obviously chris paul would be the ideal superstar, however if the rumor is true and carmello anthony is available, you have to get him. a legit one two punch that would be unstoppable! work out any connection of marvin, smith, crawford, chills and a future first, and get mello!
and hope teague turns into rondo…and do ANYthing to get rid of bibbys contract
Tbird
July 1st, 2010
4:16 pm
Warriors said to be dangling Monta Ellis for Williams and/or Bibby??? Even the Warriors could not be that dumb???
cp
July 1st, 2010
4:17 pm
Tbird dont jinx it lol lets all hope this is true.
hawk
July 1st, 2010
4:17 pm
please let this be a sign and trade deal.
Rondo
July 1st, 2010
4:17 pm
drmaryb
Be careful good doctor cdog seems to be in heat
hawk
July 1st, 2010
4:19 pm
too funny Rondo.
Hawks Offseason
July 1st, 2010
4:19 pm
Hawks on the main page of yahoo.com? Yeah it must be bad news …
“a good portion of the NBA community regards that contract as the worst it has ever seen”
Mr. Phil
July 1st, 2010
4:19 pm
@Tbird
Remember the talk that Ellisa nd Curry were having trouble playing together. Appears to be more than just talk. It is well known they have been shopping Ellis for awhile.
Chip Shot
July 1st, 2010
4:19 pm
@Tbird”Warriors said to be dangling Monta Ellis for Williams and/or Bibby??? Even the Warriors could not be that dumb???”
now remember we got Crawford from Golden State for Acie Law and Speedy Cla Cla Cla Claxton so its not actually that farfetched theyd give us Monta
Dr. Warren
July 1st, 2010
4:22 pm
Maybe the Hawks won 53 in spite of Woody. With a more sensible and creative replacement, they should be able to at least equal that this year.
TheAntiMe
July 1st, 2010
4:22 pm
Sure, we all want the Hawks to be a championship team, yesterday, but the fact is that even though the Hawks basically have the same personnel as the 2nd-round loss team they were yesterday, if they were let Joe Johnson walk they wouldn’t be able to replace him in the next year or two with the players to make the Hawks as good as they are now.
Even though this season’s team will probably be not very much different looking in personnel than last year’s team was, even the most optimistic of Hawks fans surely must realize that we aren’t getting LeBron, D. Wade, Stoudamire, Chris Bosh, or the Tooth Fairy to come play for the Hawks anytime in the coming decade or so. Plus, now that we have a coach who supposedly has an actual set of offensive plays to run, I am willing to give them a chance.
Personally, I can live with a Hawks team that finished with the 3rd seed in the Eastern Conference and in any given year can upset the top seeds. I’m old and have watched way too many Hawks teams that were lucky if they finished 3rd from the bottom of their conference.
I believe that this Hawks team would have to be seriously dismantled over the course of several years in order to provide enough cap space to get significantly better if you start rebuilding again right now. In my opinion, the Hawks are really not that far away with their current roster. They really don’t need to do anything foolish and, in my opinion, letting Joe Johnson walk would qualify as foolish.
Rondo
July 1st, 2010
4:22 pm
Who cares what yahoo thinks JJ will not be the only player who will get money they don’t deserve.
IndianaDawg
July 1st, 2010
4:23 pm
Why is it that the Hawks management had all season to get this max contract done and didn’t and now all of a sudden, they’re jumping all over themselves to give Joe as much money as they can and get him signed? What changed? If anything, I thought Joe’s situation and playing got progressively worse as the season and especially during the playoffs.
Woodys No Goody
July 1st, 2010
4:24 pm
Yahoo is calling Joe’s contract the worst EVER in NBA history!!!
Go ahead and bring Woodson back because this season is going to be a joke!!!
Rondo
July 1st, 2010
4:27 pm
Blame the contract on fear of loosing your best player. Not on JJ.
i_am_soulstar
July 1st, 2010
4:27 pm
The Marvin Williams/ Bibby trade sounds far-fetched.
BUT if you would’ve told me last year that Sund would trade Acie Law and Speedy for Jamal Crawford, I would’ve called you everything but a child of God to make up for wasting for my time.
Stranger things have happened.
ryan
July 1st, 2010
4:29 pm
What i think is whats going to happen with LeBron he stays in Cleveland you can not turn down 125 mill and with Byron Scott there now I also think Bosh will end up in Miami or Chicago. I leaning that Stoudemire stays a Sun but he may go to the Nets. The biggest looser is New York.
eh
July 1st, 2010
4:30 pm
I don’t alot about basketball. I don’t what JJ is worth. I do know that I wouldn’t max out on the first offer though. that’s just stupid. try to get him for as little as possible. see if you can save some money to get other players. I think I read something about wanting to make changes so they could do better than being knocked out in the 1st or 2nd round of the playoffs. looks like to me like they’re blowing all their money on one guy they already had and they’re just gonna send the send team out they had last year. just doesn’t make sense to me.
eh
July 1st, 2010
4:31 pm
correction to the first line: I don’t know alot about basketball. I don’t know what JJ is worth
BigTimeTECHFan
July 1st, 2010
4:31 pm
Warriors said to be dangling Monta Ellis for Williams and/or Bibby??? Even the Warriors could not be that dumb???
Wonder if this is backup if Johnson goes? Ellis is very nice player but same role as J Crawford, JJ, and 1st round pick (Crawford) would all be 2 guards??
Would be explosive backcourt
PG – Teague (Crawford)
SG – Ellis (Crawford)
SF – J Johnson
C – Hortford
PF – J Smith
wow, that would be nice but they would have to run a lot more. D may be issues
newkid
July 1st, 2010
4:31 pm
Bibby/Williams rumors may have legs; Hawks have expressed interest in Duhon.
eh
July 1st, 2010
4:32 pm
another correction:…send the same team
Michael Cunningham
July 1st, 2010
4:32 pm
@Reid: i think you are and seeing things that are not there. want to show me some specific examples instead of making a blanket statement with no support?
there is no “i told you so” in the blog. all i’m saying is not many guys JJ’s age turn down $27 million just go go play in New York, or because they are mad at fans, or for any other reasons everyone else assumed he was leaving. that’s a belief that isn’t specific to JJ but has to do with human nature, our capitalistic society and the history of the league. it has nothing whatsoever to do with any hope that JJ returns.
the funny part is you say I “support” JJ and want him back. there are people with the Hawks who worried tough media coverage of JJ, of which I provide probably 90 percent, might influence him to leave. you are entitled to your opinion, but i think you are way off base. i think the fact that none of my other blog people share your opinion–there are probably more who think i was too tough on JJ at times–speaks volumes.
trust me, i don’t care if JJ returns or not. i analyze the decision and let people draw their own conclusions. i only care about covering the team to the best of my ability.