Atlanta Hawks: Waiting on J.J. (UPDATE: J.J. expected to accept offer in second meeting)
Assuming he can use an extra $25 million or so, J.J. willl be back. (Bob Rosato/SI)
(UPDATE: A person with knowledge of the process said the Hawks are to meet with J.J. again in L.A. with the expectation that the two sides will work out the details of a contract agreement.)
What’s up, blog people? Shaking off the cobwebs after staying up way too late and obsessively checking the Blackberry for some confirmation that J.J. accepted Atlanta’s maximium contract offer. No official word on that yet but my prediction that there’s no way he (or any other older free agent) leaves that much cash on the table is looking pretty good. I’ll update as the day goes along.
After Rick Sund met with Joe and his agent to extend the offer, the Knicks made their pitch to him. The Heat also are trying to get in the running. The Mavs also want to get an audience with Joe even though they have no cap room.
None of those teams has Atlanta’s $27 million advantage. Sure, J.J. could try to force a sign-and-trade to one of those teams and still get his Bird rights money, but that would require an agreement between the Hawks and the new team. Why go through all of that when a max offer is sitting in front of him?
Also, while the Hawks aren’t a championship-level team, they are better right now than any of the teams with the cap space to offer J.J. the max. Sure, those teams all can get better by making moves, but this is another area where J.J. has what he wants in front of him so why take a chance somewhere else? The Hawks are going to have to get creative to improve the team once J.J. re-signs but they already have a good team.
It seems much of the league was surprised that the Hawks offered the maximum. I couldn’t find anyone who predicted J.J. would re-sign in Atlanta, probably because no one believed ASG would spend the money. NBA.com’s David Aldridge says Sund and his people (who’ve always been big J.J. fans) had to convince the owners to make the investment. Aldridge also amplified what I said in yesterday’s blog about future trading possibilities for J.J.:
“And if the Hawks don’t break through in the East in the next couple of seasons, Johnson will only be 31 in the summer of 2012, and still have a lot of teams interested in his services. You can always trade him, the argument went; someone will rise up in the next few years into contender status, and teams on the rise tend to be more willing to go all-in for a year or two and make a trade for a high-priced player.”
That happens all the time in the NBA. It’s why when Michael Gearon Jr was lamenting that Jermaine O’Neal was overpaid last season, I was thinking that O’Neal still got traded along to Toronto and then later to Miami after the Pacers gave him a big-money deal. This was after he proved to be injury-prone and unable to get them over the top.
Aldridge ended his post with a sentiment I saw expressed by other reporters on Twitter last night: “It no doubt also came up that it’s highly unlikely that the current Atlanta Spirit ownership group will still be in charge of the Hawks in six years. Johnson’s due bill will be someone else’s problem by then.”
If that indeed is part of their rationale, it’s obviously a cynical point of view. From a practical standpoint it’s also risky since no one is lining up to buy sports teams nowadays. More likely, the Hawks figure they can always move J.J. later and start over if things don’t work out. It’s not an unrealistic expectation.
MC
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444 comments Add your comment
Michael Cunningham
July 1st, 2010
3:32 pm
@ True Atlanta Fan: “So exactly how much money would we have left (if any) after this max contract is done to spend on some help. And what would be our best bet (if you include the option of a S&T with Childress granted that he doesn’t want to stay). Also is there any hope that there will be cap room in the future to re-sign Horford to a good deal?”
more details on all this if/when J.J. accepts deal. short answer is they can use the MLE and/or make trades.
terrell
July 1st, 2010
3:32 pm
I see a sign-and-trade coming. If they really wanted Joe, they could’ve offered him the max a long time ago. Only time will tell.
Woodson II ( the sequel)
July 1st, 2010
3:32 pm
Ray Im not convinced that changing Offensive is going to make a difference. You can only run plays according to the talent level and the execution. We agree that so far there’s not any reason to expect anything different from last year…except we may fall a little and other teams may rise.
Darrel Starks. I think you are on point with your trade analysis and your stance on whats best for the hawks. Too many good posts to single out 1.
tckr83
July 1st, 2010
2:10 pm
I hear you!
JC
July 1st, 2010
1:28 pm
I dont think for a minute that with the current moves, Woodson’s firing , the offer to JJ(has he signed yet) or the two late picks that we are a better team. No, we are not getting better. In fact Sund has an extremely poor record for hiring coaches. Hes never won a championship but he has finished in last place more than once. I think this guy is bad news for the hawks.
Ditto on the Cunningham good job with the JJ saga.. Way to step up!
aaronr
July 1st, 2010
3:32 pm
how realistic is a trade for chris paul? we should be willing to give up josh smith and jamal for paul
STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)
July 1st, 2010
3:33 pm
Damn yahoo says it’s the worst contract ever. I don’t think it’s the worst. (Rashard Lewis’ is much worse) But it’s still bad.
Michael Cunningham
July 1st, 2010
3:33 pm
@Reid: “You’ll just be jumping for you, hey, Michael? Your love for Joe Johnson overflows.”
huh? what makes you say that? i have no stake one way or the other. i’m just here to cover the team.
Aaron
July 1st, 2010
3:34 pm
The problem is that you can’t get good help for the MLE in this market. Drew Friggin’ Gooden got an MLE-type deal.
I wanna know which of Horford or Smith they’re trading because that’s the only way Joe gets real help, real fast.
Parker
July 1st, 2010
3:35 pm
This for Rick Sund. Offering JJ top money, knowing he wouldnt get it any where else was the dumbest decision you could have made in free agency . Lebron hasnt even recieved an offer yet…. This is some bs!!!
Section 303
July 1st, 2010
3:35 pm
I would expect that part of this new deal is a requirement that Joe apologizes to fans (particulary, long time season ticket holders) for his stupid comments. The guy has never apologized. Until he does, I won’t let it go.
tckr83
July 1st, 2010
3:36 pm
For real:
So Ray Allen doesn’t get a pass for his playoffs, but Joe Johnson does? Is that how this works? And I can assure you, Ray Allen being one of, if not the best shooter of all time… MANY PEOPLE would disagree with you. More than would agree with you actually if it came to Joe Johnson or Ray Allen taking that Game 7, buzzer beating shot.
And as a player… you cannot compare Joe Johnson and Lebron James. People are laughing at you right now just so you know.
I guess we can compare Joe Johnson to Charles Barkley, Dominique Wilkins, Karl Malone and a few other HALL OF FAMERS w/o rings as well?
Michael Cunningham
July 1st, 2010
3:36 pm
@ darrell starks: “MC WHY WOULD HORNET WANT JOSH WHEN THEY ALREADY HAVE DAVID WEST ?
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!”
i don’t know that they would. i was just pointing out that Smoove may be Hawks’ best trade chip.
terrell
July 1st, 2010
3:37 pm
If it weren’t for Woody’s insistence on signing Marvin and Bibby to those outrageous contracts last year, we’d be sitting pretty right about now. Oh well…..
i_am_soulstar
July 1st, 2010
3:37 pm
steve brown,
A sign and trade is something that has to be agreed on between the player, the trading team, and trade-recipient team before the player signs. The Hawks cannot sign Joe for their team and then trade him in the 1st season. There are clear rules against this. So if he signs for whatever amount on July 8th to play for the Hawks, then he will be in a Hawks uniform for next season at least.
ryan
July 1st, 2010
3:39 pm
Hey Michael Cunningham what are the Hawks looking at in possible trades.
terrell
July 1st, 2010
3:39 pm
If somebody wants Smoove, they’ve gotta take Bibby and/or Marvin too. Take it or leave it! lol
NC Braves Fan
July 1st, 2010
3:39 pm
That Adrian Vicente post makes absolutely no sense to me. If you’re the Hawks, I don’t think you practically break your necks to offer Joe the max unless you are absolutely serious about re-signing him.
Also, Jamal would not “seamlessly” replace Joe, if for no other reason JJ is a much better defensive player.
Joe Johnson aka lil' rock
July 1st, 2010
3:40 pm
@ Section 303, I’m sorry.
timbo
July 1st, 2010
3:40 pm
Is there money for a big man. Is Jsmoove on the block for one. How about Jsmoove for Al Jefferson in Minnesota, I heard he’s on the market. If the hawks don’t get a big man, it will be more 2nd round loses to look forward. Can you say, “a good team with poor attendance”. Remember those days with Smitty, Mookie, and Lenny. THE HAWKS ARE STUPID!!!!!!!!
Michael Cunningham
July 1st, 2010
3:40 pm
@doc: “if this is true MC i much prefer the ace of this negotiation than that of chills and josh. you werent around for that summer but that was the pits.”
i feel ya. people may not like this move but the Hawks are being aggressive.
LOL!!!
July 1st, 2010
3:40 pm
PLEASE STOP EVERYBODY JUST STOP PLEASE I MEAN WHERE ARE U PEOPLE COMMING FROM SERIOUSLY LOL!!! WE COULDNT EVEN SELL OUT PLAYOFF GAMES FOR GOD SAKE BUT U ARE QUICK TO GET ALL CRAZY WHEN YALL SEE A CONTRACTS BEING OFFERED TO SOMEBODY YALL DIDNT GO WATCH ANYWAY. THIS HAS GOT TO BE THE DUUUUUUUUUMBEST CITY IN THE WORLD NOT AMERICA THE WORLD LOL!
IndianaDawg
July 1st, 2010
3:41 pm
Can you say “Sign-n-Trade”? We’ll see ya Joe. . . . . .
Freshmaker
July 1st, 2010
3:41 pm
I think a lot of JJ’s poor performance in the playoffs had to do with coaching. Woody was a very poor offensive coach, and it really showed. I think he opens things up a lot and JJ has a banner post-season this year.
bigdave
July 1st, 2010
3:42 pm
“yes. i will have more details later but the gist of it is ASG is not opposed to paying the luxury tax for the right player(s), and this explains in part why they sold the second-round pick they got from NJN.”
wait.. wait.. wait.. who are these guys and what have they done with ASG?
LOL!!!
July 1st, 2010
3:42 pm
I MEAN THIS IS THE SAME CITY THAT WANTED THE FALCONS TO PUT THERE TEAM ON HOLD TILL THEIR QUARTERBACK GOT OUT OF THE PEN LMAO!!!!!!!!
LOL!!!
July 1st, 2010
3:44 pm
THIS IS THE SAME CITY THAT GOT CALLED OUT BY DAVID JUSTICE DURING THE WORLD SERIES FOR GOD SAKE THE WORLD SERIES!!!!!!!LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
drmaryb
July 1st, 2010
3:44 pm
JC
Yes Victor did! And he is 100% correct. CP3 is 25 years but his left knee is 85 years old!
He had a career ending type knee injury and surgery last year and did NOT return to play after
he was to in 6 to 8 weeks! The jury is out on the left knee: he had a complete removal of one of his
two meniscuses. Yes, I said complete removal!
That means femur bone sitting on top of Tibial Plateau without a meniscus to absorb shock.
That means severe osteoarthritis in his very near future. He may need Micro-Fracture
Surgery very soon. Hopefully, that will revive the knee and he can play at some point.
A huge gamble to be trading healthy ballers for him right now!
So yes! Speedy Claxton is a fair comparison!
i_am_soulstar
July 1st, 2010
3:45 pm
I don’t know who Adrian Vicente is, but he’s lost some credibility as a NBA writer with that sign-and-trade statement and that assumption that Jamal could “seamlessly” replace Joe.
LOL!!!
July 1st, 2010
3:46 pm
ONLY 5% OF THIS BLOG GO SUPPORT THE HAWKS ANYWAY SO U OTHER 95% HOLD YOUR BREATH FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Greg
July 1st, 2010
3:46 pm
Go read the front page of yahoo sports on joe’s contract.
cdog
July 1st, 2010
3:47 pm
I NEVER THOUGHT I WOULD SEE IT AGAIN BUT WITH JOE JOHNSON, WE HAVE THE SECOND COMING OF JON KONCAK.IT’S TIME FOR RICK SUND AND THE ASG TO LEAVE TOWN.THIS IS TOO MUCH.
cdog
July 1st, 2010
3:49 pm
DRMARYB, DID YOU EVER WORK IN ZEBULON, GEORGIA AT ONE TIME?
terrell
July 1st, 2010
3:49 pm
Josh Smith for Al Jefferson? One pf for another pf?
terrell
July 1st, 2010
3:49 pm
So Jefferson’s a center, but Horford isn’t?
Tech First
July 1st, 2010
3:49 pm
120MILLION IS 60MILLION AND 2 YEARS TO LONG FOR JOE HE WONT LAST 2 YRS IN THAT CONTRACT AND HIS NUMBERS ARE ON THE DECLINE I THOUGHT SUND MADE SOME GREAT MOVES LAST OFF SEASON WITH LIMITED MONEY AND NO DRAFT PICKS THIS YR UPPER MANAGEMENT MUST FAIL TO WATCH ANY GAMES ATLANTA DONT WANT JOE HE CANT CARRY A TEAM OR GET PASS THA SECOND ROUND FOR 120 MILLION I LIKE RUDY GAY CHRIS PAUL MARC GASOL PICK 2 OUT OF THA THREE AND SAVE 40 MILLION
MY PREDICTION HAWKS PAY JOE WIN LESS LET JOE GO
Fresh
July 1st, 2010
3:49 pm
Damn MC,
The blog has been jumpin’ this offseason. You might want to hurry and ask AJC for a raise soon lol.
Jeff
July 1st, 2010
3:50 pm
Actually Jeff it’s on yahoo’s main page. haha
LOL!!!
July 1st, 2010
3:50 pm
@CDOG
ARE U SERIOUSLY COMPAIRING JOE JOHNSON TO JOHN KONCAK SERIOUSLY!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ONCE AGAIN THE DUMBEST CITY IN THE WORLD LMAO!!!
Jeff
July 1st, 2010
3:50 pm
http://www.yahoo.com/
Killbuckner
July 1st, 2010
3:52 pm
I don’t see horford ever developing into an offensive force at center. I think that you can tell when a player is on the outside and has a mismatch what their instinct is to do with the ball- and Horford’s instinct is to pass. And there is nothing wrong with that- Horford can have a great career without ever trying to take someone off the dribble in that situation. I just don’t see his future being at center- I think his offense would be more effective at PF where he could overpower people more.
killbuckner
Section 303
July 1st, 2010
3:52 pm
Even though I would much rather kick Joe Johnson square in the nuts than sign him to a max deal, I have to give the ASG a little credit. They are making a lot of people eat crow. I don’t think anyone can call them cheap, assuming that Joe gets this max deal.
Michael, do you think there is a shot of Josh Smith getting traded?
terrell
July 1st, 2010
3:53 pm
I think a lot of you guys are still thinking about the Iso Joe, rather than the ball movement Joe. I know it’s hard not to, but I’d like to see him in Drew’s offense before I just toss him to the curb.
SouthSideHitMan
July 1st, 2010
3:53 pm
OMG a max contract for Joe Johnson! Ouch what is in the water in the ATL? This reminds me of the horrible Elton Brand deal, Lou Deng deal, and countless others OMG,….that BAD NBA paper OUCH!
Ben
July 1st, 2010
3:53 pm
Joe will flourish with a real offense and everyone will be better because of it. Thanks god old Woody and his ISO offense is gone. Go Hawks!
retrofit
July 1st, 2010
3:54 pm
Kilbuckner.
I’ve heard this a lot, “Al is a prototypical Power forward and therefore needs to be played there so he can back guys down”. You are pointing out that he looks hesitant to face up. Which prototypical power forwards with decent offense a) don’t have a faceup game and/or b) don’t post up centers on a very regular basis? I can’t think of any, contemporary or historical.
Malone, Barkley, Boozer, Brand… all those guys utilize(d) great face-up games.
Jefferson/McHale have faceup games but spend most of their time in the post where they are most often guarded by centers.
I can’t think of a single power forward whose game relies exclusively on overpowering opponents, that is generally the work of a guy like Artis Gilmore or Shaq.
If Horford doesn’t take advantage of an obvious mismatch it doesn’t mean you rearrange your roster for him, it means you make him spend the summer working on his faceup game and get in his face when he acts too passive.
He won’t be an elite offensive player is he can’t learn how to take guys off the dribble – most great power forwards do more damage facing up.
terrell
July 1st, 2010
3:55 pm
And it’s not Joe’s max deal that’s in danger of killin us. It’s Marvin and Bibby’s. Id rather pay 20 mill for Joe, than 14mill for those 2. ANY DAY OF THE WEEK!
Rondo
July 1st, 2010
3:56 pm
Joe will capitalize more than any player this year that is a free agent. No he don’t deserve the max, but he is too valuable to let him go. Now JJ lets step your game up this year especially in the playoffs and be more of a vocal player in the locker-room since you got max money. Prove that you deserved it and earned it even though you didn’t.
Fundamentals
July 1st, 2010
3:56 pm
So far no news for Hawks fans. The Hawks had to offer Joe the money to maintain their current ability to win. If Drew can set out a game plan and fill his roster I’d say we’ll be active in Feb to tweak for what we need. There’s no way to tell who or how the Hawks will play until Drew has a chance to implement his system. Most say Woodson V2, but I’m optomistic that Drew has some plans to do something new or he wouldn’t have gotten the job.
Has Drew named any assistants?
Blameless
July 1st, 2010
3:57 pm
Hurrah! Soon, Joe Johnson will be signed and the Hawks will have completed an offseason of improving not one iota. Woooo hoooo!!!!!!! Larry Drew is no upgrade.
KB
July 1st, 2010
3:57 pm
If I was Al Horford, I would leave town. This team is not about winning. J. Johnson has proven to be a number two guy. This backwards ### club wants to pay this man like he is a number one guy. J. Johnson has disappeared all too often in the playoffs.
I bet J. Smith is saying to himself “What in the world have I got myself into?” The team should be focusing on the following items: 1) Getting rid of M. Williams (has not progressed enough). 2) Getting rid of M. Bibbyn (too old) and 3) Getting a big man…..
Section 303
July 1st, 2010
3:57 pm
lil’ rock, that’s not good enough!