Atlanta Hawks: All-in with max offer for Joe Johnson
When the Hawks meet with Joe Johnson in Los Angeles soon after the start of the free-agency negotiating period at 12:01 Thursday they are prepared to offer him a six-year contract for the maximum amount allowed, according to people with knowledge of their plans.
The exact amount of maximum contracts won’t be determined until a league audit is completed over the next week, but it’s expected to total about $119 million for a player with Johnson’s experience. The other teams making pitches to Joe can only offer him five years at about $92 million. I still believe that a gap of up to $27 million or so will be too much for Joe to turn down regardless of what other teams have to say about teaming up with LeBron or Bosh (or both), earning more in endorsements, or anything else not having to do with $27 million.
As a Bird-rights free agent, Johnson is eligible to receive from the Hawks a six-year contract starting at about $15.8 million with maximum raises of 10.5 percent in each year (the raises are based on the first-year salary and don’t compound). Keeping in mind that the numbers are not finalized, the year-by-year breakdown of the contract would look something like this: $15.8 million in 2010-11, $17.5 million in 2011-12, $19.4 million in 2012-13, $20.8 million in 2013-14, $22.4 million in 2014-15 and $24.1 million 2015-16. Joe would be 34-years old during the final season of the deal.
Before you ask, I’m wearing my beat writer’s beanie and keeping my opinion on this move to myself. Bret LaGree at Hoopinion . THHB at Peachtree Hoops and atl_hawk_luv at Hawks Str8Talk all offer reasonable takes on why they don’t like a max deal for J.J.
In analyzing this for yourself, keep in mind that the Hawks wouldn’t have the cap flexibility to find a comparable replacement for Joe in free agency. So if you want him gone, it means accepting that the Hawks probably wouldn’t be as good without him in the short term (LaGree and atl_hawk_luv explained why they think that’s OK). Also remember that if Joe accepts the deal and continues to produce at his current level for a couple years he could be a very tradeable asset in the future; his contract wouldn’t necessarily become an albatross.
MC
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672 comments Add your comment
KJC
July 1st, 2010
12:34 am
I have mixed feelings on the subject. I watched every game that was televised last season and I can’t count the games where everybody goes ice cold for I don’t know, 6 or 7 minutes in the 4th quarter and just when you think it’s over Joe steps up and makes 6 or 7 shots in a row and seals the deal. I hear what you guys are saying when it comes to the playoffs. Damn they were hard to watch! Even the series with the Bucks. Everytime they panned over to Bogut in a cast I kept saying “Whewww..maybe we dodged one there!” That series was a challenge in itself and I don’t even want to talk about the series w/ Orlando. That said, we had to make it to the playoffs before Joe could put up below-average numbers and I don’t think we had a chance in hell to do it without him. I don’t know all of the the ins and outs of salary caps, free agent designations, cba’s and what have you, but if landing a primo free agent is not fiscally or financially possible or whatever, then maybe it is worth it to keep Joe. I think the comments Joe made stung a bit more than the disappointing effort in the post-season. I won’t lie, it pissed me off. As far as next season is concerned, I am gonna give LD a chance. If he signs, I’ll give Joe another chance. I don’t agree with those who say Al has peaked. I think Smoove was one of the most improved players in the league, and Jamal is just getting started here. Jordan will surprise some folks. The 3 or 4 times he got substantial minutes, Teague blew some guys off the court and showed a bit of promise on both sides. We just had the best season we’ve had in a decade! We won’t be second tier forever. Go Hawks!
Roland
July 1st, 2010
12:35 am
Najeh, what’s with all of the complaining about Comcast?
Josh
July 1st, 2010
12:37 am
Yahoo! Sports is saying that there is rumors that the Hawks are going to sign Joe to a max contract and then trade him and Marvin to the Mavericks for Caron Butler and Brendan Haywood. If this is true, The Hawks would still have some cap room left to sign another FA.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 1st, 2010
12:38 am
For the last half an hour, my cable and internet have been going off and on, and this is a recurring problem, not just a one-time issue.
Wish I could watch NBA TV right now instead of NBA Fastbreak on ESPN too…
Gutz
July 1st, 2010
12:42 am
Josh, quit making stuff up. I don’t see anything about that rumor on Yahoo.
Josh
July 1st, 2010
12:44 am
@Gutz
Its there. I just read it.
Gutz
July 1st, 2010
12:45 am
Where is it at then? It’s nowhere on the Yahoo sports page….
Gutz
July 1st, 2010
12:46 am
Josh, got a direct link?
doc
July 1st, 2010
12:48 am
funny, some of were suggesting the butler haywood trade at trade deadline last year. if true not sure it behooved us to wait. we will see if it can be true based on trade requirements between teams with the capologists.
Prison Mike
July 1st, 2010
12:51 am
Here goes again, Haywood is a free agent Marvin and Joe equal a good 25 million annually, and Butler is only owed about 10 million.
Gutz
July 1st, 2010
12:53 am
Yeah Josh is full of crap. It’s nowhere on the Yahoo sports page and it wouldn’t even work. Joe and Marvin would be well over 20mil while Butler/Haywood wouldn’t even come close.
Grandad
July 1st, 2010
12:58 am
Haywood’s a FA as well.
Thoughtful
July 1st, 2010
1:10 am
LET JOE GO! LET JOE GO! LET JOE GO!
Barton
July 1st, 2010
1:14 am
I can hear the boo birds reigning on day one in Philips… Why does management never listen to what the city wants? This will DEBILITATE THE FRANCHISE. WAY TO GO SUND! He’s gonna be gone in a year and will leave this franchise to sink with this crap contract.
Ken Strickland
July 1st, 2010
1:16 am
Some of the comments being posted on this blog about the ASG signing JJ to a max contract only illustrates just how stupid some of our fans are. Even when you illustrate how little it will cost over what we paid last yr to have a 4 time All Star SG for the next 2-3yrs, and that he and the contract can be traded anytime after the 1st yr, we repeatedly get one completely stupid comment after another on the issue.
None of you had a thing to say last yr when we paid him $14.9M. Who in the hell but a stupid idiot would complain about paying a 4time All Star, who’s one of the NBA’s most complete players, $15.8M, when we paid MBibby, a PG that can’t carry JJ’s jock strap, damn near that much in 08, and none of you morons complained then.
Now stupidity reigns supreme, and we have all sorts of stupid reaction to us paying him $15.8M next yr, which is less than one(1)million($.9) more than we paid him last yr. STUPIDITY, STUPIDITY AND MORE STUPIDITY!!!!!!!!!!
AG7
July 1st, 2010
1:17 am
League exec. says ATL owners thought for offering Joe Johnson max deal B/C they won’t still own Hawks at end of contract to have to pay it.
James
July 1st, 2010
1:27 am
Whatever team LeBron James signs with I’m gonna become a fan of that team. If the hawks sign Joe Johnson I’m officially no longer a hawks fan.
James
July 1st, 2010
1:36 am
The Hawks organization fears that if they don’t sign Joe Johnson they will be back in the lottery.
truthspitter
July 1st, 2010
1:43 am
Yes, comcast sucks goatballs and has been bad for me all day
truthspitter
July 1st, 2010
1:44 am
Welcome back Joe but I hope they dont let Josh Childress just walk, we should get something for the clown in a sign and trade
hawks_4_life
July 1st, 2010
2:01 am
Funny how everyone claims the Spirit is cheap now that they might offer Joe the max, the sky has fallen. I saw a post that said six more years of mediocrity, are you kiddint me? Good thing none of us are GMs and only bloggers because the real world is nothing like nba live.
ps: no matter what happens ill always be a hawk fan, can some really say that?
Hawks' Nest Monsta
July 1st, 2010
2:04 am
If Atlanta was a foreign country, and the Hawks were a soccer team, I guarantee you that Rick Sund and everyone in the ASG would be dead.
Re-signing Joe? fine. For a max deal? no! for six years?!! ABSOLUTELY NOT!
I hear people saying that it’s our best option because we can’t replace Joe.
There’s a man who goes by the name of Josh Childress. He’s younger, quicker, and more athletic. He can defend better, and he gives 100% effort all of the time. He fits the description of a young, athletic team who likes to run up and down the court. The only downside: he can’t shoot as well as Joe (but can Joe shoot as well as Joe?). The thing is, Chill’s not asking for a max deal, effectively crippling our franchise’s future. I know many of you aren’t sold on this point…
But wait, there’s more:
There’s a man by the name of John Salmons. He’s pretty good to say the least (huge understatement). He plays great defense and even better offense. We saw first hand what he was capable of. The only reason the bucks were only the sixth seed is because they didn’t get him sooner. I don’t believe he’s asking for a max contract either.
Also, we do have Jamal, people. He’s kind of amazing, just saying.
Now, considering that Joe is here to stay, if Chill wants to go to Washington, we better get Javale McGee in return. 7-foot athletic center + J-Smoov = swat central.
My point: the Hawks would almost definitely NOT be worse without Joe. Personally, I don’t believe we’ll be worse WITH him either (for this next season). We’re still a young team on the rise, but Joe might be limiting the amount we rise. Not only will Marvin not get his chance, but the organization 3 years from now will find themselves wondering where to get the money for new talent. oh yeah, we gave it to that guy who insulted the fans, got booed off the court, and never once apologized.
Despite all that, I still have love for you Joe, but the Atlanta Hawks TEAM will always come first. Even though we have some questionable owners (greedy idiots), let’s be optimistic. We were one of the best teams in the league despite having a clueless coach. Now, we got a new coach, and hopefully, we’ll get another good pickup. 2011 could very well be the year. GO HAWKS!
Dee
July 1st, 2010
2:07 am
O’Brien or Najeh (I know u guys know about this)
I’m not familiar with all the cap space nor money requirements to make this work but CAN this work?
Denver gets: Joe Johnson/Jamal Crawford/Zaza
We get: Carmelo & ??
Washingston gets: Chills
We get: McGee
Hawks use mid/bi-level on Salmons & Shun Livingston
New lineup: Teague/Livingston/Bibby
Salmons/Jordan Crawford/Mo Evans
Carmelo/Marvin/??
Josh Smith/Pape Sy/(??) from Carmelo’s trade (either or)
Al Horford/McGee/(??) from Carmelo’s trade (either or)
PS: Carmelo & his wife/girlfriend, ‘LA-LA’ loves Atlanta by-the-way..always here.
northcyde
July 1st, 2010
2:16 am
Chea
June 30th, 2010
11:57 pm
Northcyde, if the Hawks are going to get better with JJ at 20 mill per, it won’t come through expiring contracts, because the cap space will be annihilated after Horford re-signs. And trading Josh Smith is not the answer, never will be.
Or the current group can increase its team chemistry. They sure showed a lot of potential for that huh?
**************************
Chea, the Hawks can get better via trades, like all teams who usually get better.
It could be a trade of Joe Johnson for a comparable star or superstar ( probably on a team that has turned bad ). Or if they want to reduce their payroll, they can trade him and his 20 million for expiring contracts. It’s been done plenty of times in this league, when high salary players are involved in trades.
It could be a trade of Josh Smith for a PG or a C. You’re telling me that you wouldn’t trade Smoove in a deal for PG the caliber of Chris Paul, if he were available? ( this means that Smoove isn’t untradeable ).
Boston went from lottery team, to NBA Champion, by keeping Paul Pierce and Rajon Rondo, but literally trading everyone else on the roster, including their best young player in Al Jefferson. They bring in Kevin Garnett ( disgruntled in Minnesota ) and Ray Allen ( disgruntled in Seattle ). The rest is history.
A lot of people simply don’t want JJ here. Even if he signed for 10 million, they wouldn’t want him here.
All I know is that the people expecting Horford and Smoove to be the offensive go-to-guys with JJ out of the mix, better understand that neither of those guys have had defenses specifically gameplan to stop or sow down their offense. Has Horford EVER seen a double team? I know Smoove hasn’t. Shoot . . they let Smoove shoot.
Smoove is a great all-around player, but he’ll never be a go-to scorer. Horford may have the potential, but can he do that at center? He may have to play PF in order for him to maximize his offensive potential. Which brings us back to the player currently playing PF.
underdog
July 1st, 2010
2:17 am
MsDEE YOU R SO RIGHT ON I WAS THINKING ALONG THOSE SAME LINE WE ALL NO WE R BETTER WITH JOE..ITS THE BENCH WHY PAY GUYS NOT 2 PLAY THEY R PAYING 4 GUY THAT DONT SEE THE FLOOR WHY NOT CUT THE BENCH DOWN 2 TEN AND USE THE EXTRA MONEY ON SOME REAL PLAYERS…BYE SIGNING JOE WE DIDNT LOSE ANG GROUND AND WE MAKE THE PLAY OFF..SO IM GOING 2 CALL IT A WIN AND 4 THOSE THAT DONT LIKE IT PUT THE PIPE DOWN
Dee
July 1st, 2010
2:25 am
I know rite, underdog..can u image a starting lineup of Teague, Salmons, Carmelo, Josh, & Al?? Teague would be in ‘playground heaven’ with so many options for assists!!
northcyde
July 1st, 2010
2:29 am
Dee . . that trade doesn’t make us better, or bring us closer to a championship. It simply changes out JJ for Melo. And what has Melo ever won by himself?
I got much love for Melo, with me being a Syracuse basketball fan. I will forever be grateful for him finally bringing Syracuse that NCAA Title in 2003. But Melo in the playoffs has had a career that mirrored what Kevin Garnett’s career looked like. In the 7 years he’s been in the league, Melo has lost in the 1st round of the playoffs 6 times. This means that he needs another star player to play alongside with.
The same goes for Joe Johnson in Atlanta. I know people want to believe that Josh Smith and Al Horford are star players. No . . they’re very good complimentary players. But as of right now, they’re not good enough to take over a game offensively. Crawford is, but he either runs red hot or ice cold. For the Hawks to get where they want to be in the playoffs, we’ll need either Horford or Smoove to develop into an offensive star . . . or we’ll have to trade for one, while keeping JJ.
Woodys No Goody
July 1st, 2010
2:31 am
I get the feeling Hawks ownership want to lose. First we get no real head coach and now they want to bring back Johnson? Good luck getting fans out to see this mess.
We peaked against the Celtics THREE YEARS AGO!!!
Dan's Dickau
July 1st, 2010
2:45 am
Yeah they want him to demand a sign and trade so they can shrug their shoulders and say “see, we tried!” Only I bet WE don’t get 2 first round picks and a Boris Diaw!
At least that’s what I hope will happen. You can’t pay this guy 20 million to wet the bed at the end of every year. Did that say 2016? We’ll all be in flying cars by the time they’re off the hook for this joker.
Dan's Dickau
July 1st, 2010
2:47 am
Dee is on that playstation ish…
Bobby Sparks
July 1st, 2010
2:49 am
I know a lot of fans out their like me do not like the fact that the Hawks have to give Joe the max but we can not sign another free agent and I am not signing up to see the Hawks go from atleast having a chance at a championship eventhough it small; to not making the playoffs and winning at best 20 – 30 games and not playing in the playoff. So, the key to the Hawks taking the next step is trading Marvin William and getting a big man for him. He has never lived up to were the Hawks draft him. He does not show up in many games and his rebounding is horriable for the his size. If we make just this move the Hawks will have a better chance at winning a championship. Joe may not be the best player in the league, but he good enough to get us to the secound round of playoffs now we just got to get a big man that can take us to the championship. Remember this is a team game. Look Lebron has not being able to win one because his team makes have not shown up. I don’t care how good you are; your teammates will determine if you can win a championship.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 1st, 2010
2:52 am
Dee — I’m no cap expert, but as far as I know all of those can work under the cap (Denver would have to throw in another contract if the Hawks are going to send them $30 million in salary though). I don’t think the Denver trade or signing Salmons to the mid-level are realistic though. Salmons will probably get more than the mid-level from someone, and I think Denver and Carmelo will get a deal done in light of the new collective bargaining agreement kicking in next year.
Childress for McGee, though, is a fair trade. I don’t know how the Wizards feel about either player, but I could see them making that especially if they decline Josh Howard’s team option.
Dee
July 1st, 2010
2:58 am
Thx Najeh
Jalen
July 1st, 2010
2:59 am
If we dont re-sign Joe, we wont even make playoffs next 2-3 years.
So we are basically handcuffed. We can only give out max deal to Joe Johnson under the “Larry Bird rules” and we cant sign any max player from another team.
There aren’t enough role players around that would sign and come here, so basically we would have LAST years team WITHOUT Joe Johnson. Honestly thats not a playoff team.
So really we are stuck with Joe Johnson and 4-5 more years of being a 2nd round type team.
I will take it over not making playoffs like from 2000-2007. That was TERRIIIIBLE.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 1st, 2010
3:00 am
“that trade doesn’t make us better, or bring us closer to a championship. It simply changes out JJ for Melo.”
Are you seriously trying to say Joe is on the same level as Melo? Come on, man. Melo is a top 5 scorer in the league who, unlike Joe, has played in a conference finals series.
I’ll say it again — the one thing separating Joe from the true elite players in the league is his inability/unwillingness to get to the free throw line. Melo averages more than twice as many free throws per game than Joe. Acquiring Melo for Joe is unrealistic, but saying it wouldn’t improve the Hawks is ludicrous.
Dee
July 1st, 2010
3:02 am
northcyde,
The difference to me, and that’s if my trade idea COULD work, with JJ & Melo is that if we lose JJ and gain Salmons (no, his no JJ be a decent replacement), Melo could possible make this team work. Melo would really be replacing Marvin, not JJ in this case, and Melo is definely an upgrade to Marvin.
Q
July 1st, 2010
3:05 am
I SURE HOPE HE CAN PLAY CENTER, CAUSE WE AINT GETTIN ONE!
Q
July 1st, 2010
3:08 am
IM GOING DOWN WITH THE SHIP, I GUESS
Tale of two J.J.’s « control+ATL+delete
July 1st, 2010
3:19 am
[...] on persuading him to stay. As Michael Cunningham reports, the plan for ASG going into today was to offer Joe a max-deal as soon as the clock hit midnight. The Hawks can offer a maximum length contract of 6-years and [...]
vava74
July 1st, 2010
3:44 am
JJ’s stats during this year’s first 4 playoff games BEFORE the chemistry issues derailed us completely:
27,75ppg 7,5rpg 5apg all on .477%FG
Then, even with his mind completely f**ked up by the lack of professionalism of some hawks players he completely dried up Salmons (a guy which you want to replace JJ with) with his D.
Get a f**king grip and stop all that nonsense. JJ is no lebron but he is the best we can get right now.
Bosh, for instance completely ruled out playing for the Hawks so why do you pretend that we can simply replace JJ by another star or even semi-star player if we managed to get the cap room to do it??????
guesswhosthis
July 1st, 2010
4:32 am
I’m ok with the Hawks signing JJ to a max contract, but I think he will be better off playing small forward instead of shooting guard. That way you can put Marvin on the bench or better yet trade him for someone useful like maybe ryan hollins from minnessota timberwolves. That way you can keep J Childress on the bench. I remember Larry Drew saying that he wants an offense where every player is a threat. I just can’t see Marvin being a threat on any day. When he drives he always falls down while getting blocked as if the defender was one step ahead of him. The only thing he’s capable of is shooting midrange jumpers and even that is inconsistant. So trade him. Then our lineup can look something like this….
PG Jeff Teague Sub Mike Bibby
SG Jordan Crawford Sub Jamaal Crawford
SF Joe Johnson Sub Josh Childress
PF Josh Smith Sub Zaza Pachulia or move Horford over to PF when Josh is out
C Al Horford Sub Ryan Hollins
With that lineup and Larry Drews offense, everyone on the court will be a threat at all times. I know that Al Horford is undersized at the center position but I also think that that can be a good mismatch for him if he is positioned right on the offensive end. In fact, I think both Josh Smith and Al Horford are better moving to the basket without the ball and positioning themselves to use their athleticism to score instead of posting up one on one. So I think they will flourish in Larry Drews system , especially if Jeff Teague is able to break down the defense.
LOL!!!
July 1st, 2010
4:56 am
I SAY ABOUT 5% OF THIS BLOG REALLY CARES AND WATCH OR GO TO HAWKS GAMES. SO U OTHER 95% WHO JUST WANT TO CRY OR BIT@H PLEASE GO HOLD YOUR BREATH FOREVER! I MEAN REALLY WHY CARE IF HE GETS A MAX DEAL OR NOT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GO TO THE GAMES AND SUPPORT THEM AND ONE MORE THING WHAT HE SAID ABOUT THE FANS IS TRUE I MEAN LOOK AT THE HISTORY OF ATLANTA TEAMS EVEN DAVID JUSTICE HAD TO CALL OUT HIS ATLANTA FANS DURING THE WORLD SERIES FOR GOD SAKE SO PLEEEEEEEEASE LET IT GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
red
July 1st, 2010
6:26 am
30M$ FOR JJ???? WTF? HE’S NOT EVEN A SUPERSTAR. I WOULD RATHER OFFER RUDY GAY 12M$ AND SALMONS 6-8M$ THAN SPENDING 120M$ TO A PLAYER WHO’S NOT EVEN A SUPER STAR.
tinachi
July 1st, 2010
6:49 am
im reading over the websites this morning and pretty much everyone sees jj resigning with the hawks. in my opinion is more or less about the big bucks then winning a championship. i truly think the asg sucks with this move. why keep this man here to hinder us if you are not able to get a real superstar player to take over this team and lead us to a championship. all honesty its all about the greed, the big bucks not a nba championship. jj is hungry for money not a trophy, and this why kobe, lebron, wade will succeed. i smh to this foolishness, and wave bye to another sorry a$$ team !
Hmmm
July 1st, 2010
6:57 am
Trade Bibby and Mo Evans. Sign Childress and Gerald Green along with our draft picks from this year + Sirgey Gladyr frm last years draft. Sign Brendan Heywood.
That is all.
SGT CHRIS
July 1st, 2010
7:03 am
WOW!!! 120 mil after that playoff performance??? Hawks should try to sign him to a smaller deal, then package his @ss to denver for carmelo, since the nuggets seem to want to trade him…the hawks are in so bad of a need for a TRUE center…and they are worried about JOE JOHNSON?? hell pay that money to jamal crawford!!!! and that draft was horrible!!!
SGT CHRIS
July 1st, 2010
7:05 am
YES I AGREE, I WOULD HAVE LET JOE GO AND TRIED TO BRING IN SALMONS….THAT GUY IS VERY VERY UNDERRATED AND IS VERY PRODUCTIVE!!!!
Hmmm
July 1st, 2010
7:05 am
T’was a good draft. Would’ve been a great one if they had drafted Hassan Whiteside or Dexter Pittman with the #31 pick instead of trading it away.
michael
July 1st, 2010
7:08 am
Use common sense, basketball is a team sport. Anyway,as displayed in the playoffs, we all witnessed the level of Joe’s play. And to put the icing on the cake, he said that he does not need us to show up. Well Joe, we were the only ones to show up in the playoffs when it counts.
levi linsey
July 1st, 2010
7:09 am
big mistake he has never came thourgh when we need him let him go more mediocriety