Atlanta Hawks: All-in with max offer for Joe Johnson
When the Hawks meet with Joe Johnson in Los Angeles soon after the start of the free-agency negotiating period at 12:01 Thursday they are prepared to offer him a six-year contract for the maximum amount allowed, according to people with knowledge of their plans.
The exact amount of maximum contracts won’t be determined until a league audit is completed over the next week, but it’s expected to total about $119 million for a player with Johnson’s experience. The other teams making pitches to Joe can only offer him five years at about $92 million. I still believe that a gap of up to $27 million or so will be too much for Joe to turn down regardless of what other teams have to say about teaming up with LeBron or Bosh (or both), earning more in endorsements, or anything else not having to do with $27 million.
As a Bird-rights free agent, Johnson is eligible to receive from the Hawks a six-year contract starting at about $15.8 million with maximum raises of 10.5 percent in each year (the raises are based on the first-year salary and don’t compound). Keeping in mind that the numbers are not finalized, the year-by-year breakdown of the contract would look something like this: $15.8 million in 2010-11, $17.5 million in 2011-12, $19.4 million in 2012-13, $20.8 million in 2013-14, $22.4 million in 2014-15 and $24.1 million 2015-16. Joe would be 34-years old during the final season of the deal.
Before you ask, I’m wearing my beat writer’s beanie and keeping my opinion on this move to myself. Bret LaGree at Hoopinion . THHB at Peachtree Hoops and atl_hawk_luv at Hawks Str8Talk all offer reasonable takes on why they don’t like a max deal for J.J.
In analyzing this for yourself, keep in mind that the Hawks wouldn’t have the cap flexibility to find a comparable replacement for Joe in free agency. So if you want him gone, it means accepting that the Hawks probably wouldn’t be as good without him in the short term (LaGree and atl_hawk_luv explained why they think that’s OK). Also remember that if Joe accepts the deal and continues to produce at his current level for a couple years he could be a very tradeable asset in the future; his contract wouldn’t necessarily become an albatross.
MC
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672 comments Add your comment
Peahead
June 30th, 2010
7:49 pm
NO! NO! NO! STOOOOOOOOOPID MOVE!!!!!!!! No one else is gonna offer Johnson anything close to the max #. But what do we expect from the spirit group
Najeh Davenpoop
June 30th, 2010
7:53 pm
Richard Jefferson just idiotically opted out of the last year — and $15 million — of his contract.
He wasn’t a good fit in San Antonio and will be lucky to get anything more than the mid-level, but he’s still better than Marvin. I wouldn’t mind seeing the Hawks throw the mid-level at him and see what happens.
Blast
June 30th, 2010
7:55 pm
Hawk fans are all a bunch of whinners, complainers, moaners and groaners. Ist y’all curse out the ASG for being cheap, now y’all whinning that they are willing to sign their best player to a max contract.
Reading the posts just make me laugh. Folks are crying as if the bread was coming out of their own pockets! Bottom line is if ASG do not sign Joe to a max contract, there are a bunch of hungry teams out there that surely will. Bottom line. Deal with it. Get over it. Not a dime of Joe’s $$$ is coming out damn wallet.
drmaryb
June 30th, 2010
7:56 pm
Finance 101
You are worth what you can get!
It’ all relative to what the owners are making!
So, all the ignorant and broke people who can’t count this high…it’s NOT your concern,
It’s NOT your job to worry about how much Joe is paid.
If you could play at his level? You would want the money too!
So roll over and go back to sleep now. Nite – Nite to all the broke haters!
Joe – Get your cheese man!
terrell
June 30th, 2010
7:58 pm
Good for JJ. Get it while you can. I’m thinking he’ll be better in Drew’s offense as opposed to Iso Joe, so I’m fine with keeping him. We’ll have some expirings next year along with Jamal (if we have to) to go after some depth. We could definitely use a 2nd pg and a big, because Bibby should be the 3rd pg, and we need some meat to go against the big boys..
Larry Drew shakes up the Hawks starting 5. I can see it coming.
Teague/Jo Crawford/JJ/Josh/Al
Bibby/Jamal/Marvin/Zaza/Kurt Thomas(FA)
Evans/Morris
amare
June 30th, 2010
7:59 pm
joe needs to leave. i want to go to new york and i want to go with. it is going to be like a reunion . Basically like i love new york. hawks suck go knicks. mike dantoni coach of year.
Mystikal
June 30th, 2010
8:02 pm
$105 million over six years is still far better than what any other team could give him. And when he declines in 3 years it isn’t as hard a blow!!
aaronr
June 30th, 2010
8:03 pm
why would the hawks want him back? sign and trade with somebody and get a center and a SF
Mystikal
June 30th, 2010
8:03 pm
Far as the full max though, i’m with those other guys, I’d rather see him go and take my losses next year
ClassicHawks
June 30th, 2010
8:06 pm
You Guys Aren’t Thinking Properly… A Lot Of Uninformed Comments, And Wack Trade Scenario’s… I Guess There Are A Lot Of High Schooler’s On Here, Because Grown Adult Atlanta Fans Don’t Sound Anything Like This Stupidity!!(Yeah Right!! LOL!) Make Valid and Real Points, Your Opinion Is Asked But If It Is Totally Ignorant and Totally Emotional, It is a waste of Space. That’s Why I Hate Being a Atlanta Fan, Because Half The Fans Are So Uninformed on How This Whole Thing Works!! We have to offer this guy a MAX DEAL. Period! It makes the ASG not look cheap #1. They are in a position to keep there best player with a core of talented young players under the age of 25, who WILL GET BETTER #2. They have to let other teams know that a sign and trade is going to have to happen if they want JOE JOHNSON #3. This is point blank a savy business move. AND BY ALL ACCOUNTS THE RIIIIIIIIIGGGGGHHHHHT MOVE IF U WANT TO CONTINUE TO COMPETE FOR A TITLE!! DWIGHT HOWARD, CARMELO ANTHONY, LEBRON JAMES, DWAYNE WADE, NO OTHER STAR FREE AGENT WITH HIS RIGHT MIND, IS WALKING THRU THAT DOOR!!!!! HAWKS FANS PLEASE WAKE UP AND GET INFORMED BEFORE U PASTE STUPIDNESS INTO THIS LITTLE BOX!! Its your voice, but really think before you speak!!
aaronr
June 30th, 2010
8:07 pm
we wouldnt even have to take the losses, i really think this team could be a lot better if they worked a sign and trade with dallas- caron butler and brendan haywood- would give us a scoring wing player that is not much worse than jj and would give us a legitimate center who rebounds and plays defense- al horford has been asking for big man help! then we would have the flexibility to trade josh smith! i bet the market for smith is huge
Dr. Dave
June 30th, 2010
8:10 pm
$20 million per season is for elite players like Kobe, D. Wade, etc. Joe is a very good player who does not live in their stratosphere. More importantly, these other players are vocal leaders of their respective teams. Joe Johnson has absolutely no charisma. I assure you that if Kobe, Lebron or Wade saw the behavior that Josh Smith displayed on the court that they would be all over him. I don’t fully buy the leadership by example line that I hear about Joe. A sign and trade for CP3, or Amare would make more sense.
jay
June 30th, 2010
8:12 pm
Let JOE ass GO!!! he never shows up. Go get Ray Allen
aaronr
June 30th, 2010
8:13 pm
i think cp3 would be the best case scenario- but who do u guys think we would have to give up for cp3? jj and josh smith maybe- that doesnt look too bad haha
Mystikal
June 30th, 2010
8:14 pm
If the hawks do resign Joe, I love the idea of trading Josh Smith and Jamal Crawford to get Carmelo Anthony (super long shot). I’m sure they aren’t, but if Nuggets were dumb enough to get rid of Melo I would make this trade in a heartbeat. With Joe Johnson, Carmelo Anthony, and Al Horford in the starting line up free agents would actually want to come here. Everyone knows Atlanta is a wonderful place to live, it’s the team that’s always been a drawback.
@MC, what you think?
Tyrone Shoelaces
June 30th, 2010
8:15 pm
@Steel (Formerly Venom Swallower) Who the hell cares what name you post your crappy, mindless opinions under? And anyone else out there hating on Joe and the Hawks, don’t y’all have anything better to do?
Whoever suggested Joe showed his true colors with a “heat of the Moment” comment after some embarrassing loses should think about the fact that Joe was 11th in scorring last year. That is a truer statement as to his value than one ill timed comment. Give him and me an f ing break. Sund has not made a poor move yet, so y’all just need to wait it out and see who’sm on the roster in October. Regardless, we will have an All Start Center in Al, 2nd team All Defensive forward in Josh, Jamal bringing it most nights, Teague with expanded minutes and hopefully Joe helping to run a more effective offense, And maybe even J-chill in place of Marvin at the starting 3 spot. They should still get 50 wins.
Remember 98% of ALL professional teams miss their goal Every Year! Be Happy we have built a solid team that is NOT the laughing stock of pro sports anymore.
drmaryb
June 30th, 2010
8:15 pm
Najeh
I like it … I like it! Richard just didn’t fit in San Antonio’s offensive system, he never looked comfortable.
Were his numbers comparable to Marvin’s. This maybe a stretch – but if Marvin just didn’t
Fit Woodson’s system? And will thrive is Drew’s?
I like that Drew will coach the Summer league as well, he can teach and iron out his
Pentangle! I’m just excited that we will now have a structured system to identify with.
Sounds more complex than triangle – LOL! I always felt the players had no roles and were
basically free lancing without an identity!
Win or Lose – we now know what we are doing! That’s a good thing!
BWIBO … .(Blogging With Iconic Bloggers Only)
aaronr
June 30th, 2010
8:16 pm
haha if we had joe johnson carmelo and al horford we would be a championship caliber team! i wouldnt mind that
atownhawk23
June 30th, 2010
8:16 pm
Excuse me section 303, but you must have lost it because actually you should commit suicide for that dirty, evil *** comment you posted.
HOW ABOUT YOU GO TO HELL! YOU JERK!!
#teamjoe BABY4LIFE
bigdave
June 30th, 2010
8:17 pm
GT alum.. “if those comments were just made in the heat of the moment, then why isn’t he man enough to just cop up to it and say so?”
im simply inferring.. im not Joe, his agent, or publicist.. you would have to ask them. im sure it will be addressed at some point dont you think? i do find it hard to believe that a player doesnt want his home crowd to support. from a guy that has no history of outburst, trouble, etc. it was evident that Joe was hurt by the booing and felt the team was betrayed. i think we’re being a bit too critical of Joe, and like him, too sensitive. i wouldnt look too much into the comments versus where they stemmed from. clearly it was frustration.. especially when your head coach’s game plan has about as good of a chance at success as you dodging rain drops. yet he continuously ask you to stay dry and offers no rain coat or umbrella.. eventually you accept your fate. Joe will have to take a new found responsibility though.. he has to become more vocal and more accountable. especially with a new coach. assuming he comes back, this is his group.
i do feel that we are trying to keep the right guy.. and we let go of the reason for boo’s early this summer..
Avery
June 30th, 2010
8:18 pm
Please don’t give this guy the max. Hope that some team in the East is stupid enough to do so that we don’t have to worry about them for a while.
ClassicHawks
June 30th, 2010
8:19 pm
CP3, CARMELO, LEBRON, KOBE, BOSH, RAY ALLEN, PAUL P., GASOL, GARNETT, D. HOWARD, AMARE, STEVE NASH, TONY PARKER, TIM DUNCAN, RUDY GAY, D. WADE, BOOZER, DIRK, ARE NOOOOOOOOTTTTTTTTTT WALKING THRU THE ATLANTA HAWK DOOR!!!! NOT NOW, NOT EVER!! SOOOOO PLEASE BE QUIET WITH THIS ASSUMPTION OF PICKING UP SOMEBODEY BETTER THAN JOE JOHNSON, PERIOD!! A SIGN AND TRADE IS OUR ONLY BEST CASE SCENARIO, I JUST DONT GET U GUYS UNWISHFUL THINKING? NONE OF THESE SUPERSTARS WILL EVER COME HERE!! WE BEST TO KEEP JOE JOHNSON OR GET A SIGN AND TRADE WITH A REASONABLE PIECE. YOU GUYS ARE REALLY LOST!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKKKKKKKKKKEEEEEE UPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!
Antonio Bolton
June 30th, 2010
8:22 pm
Wait a minute this team isn’t bad at all. Didn’t we sweep Boston last year 4-0. This team can win everyone on here talking like this team
is pitiful. That is crazy we were just in last place averaging 13 wins for over a decade now we have a good team. Boston went to the big dance and we can too.. Let’s se what Drew do.
atownhawk23
June 30th, 2010
8:24 pm
Section 303, I understand you still mad about JJ’s comment,but you shouldn’t say you want him to get hit by a bus because that’s taking it to far. btw how about you just don’t show up at the games at all; that will make it a better place, and his comment was a long time ago. LET IT GO!
#teamjoe
ClassicHawks
June 30th, 2010
8:27 pm
@ ANTONIO… EXACTLY BRO!! THE HAWKS WON 53 GAMES LAST YEAR. WE ARE ONE OR TWO PEICES AWAY FOR COMPETING FOR A CHAMPIONSHIP! OUR CORE IS 25 AND UNDER AND WE HAVE A YOUNG PG WHO COULD BE A STUD IS DEVELOPED CORRECTLY! THESE FOLKS IN ATLANTA ARE SO USED TO THE HAWKS MAKING STUPID MOVES AND BEING SORRY, THEY WANT FOR US TO GO BACK INTO THE MODE!! AT LEAST THERE ARE SOME RATIONAL THINKERS!! OVER PAYING FOR JOE JOHNSON IS BETTER THAN HAVING MONEY AND BARELY MAKING THE PLAYOFFS EVERY YEAR!! PLEASE WITH THAT BULL ATL!!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKEEEEE UPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP!!!!
bigdave
June 30th, 2010
8:31 pm
” umma competitor potna”
-Joe Johnson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-tMhAUS79U&feature=related @ :42
Najeh Davenpoop
June 30th, 2010
8:32 pm
“CP3, CARMELO, LEBRON, KOBE, BOSH, RAY ALLEN, PAUL P., GASOL, GARNETT, D. HOWARD, AMARE, STEVE NASH, TONY PARKER, TIM DUNCAN, RUDY GAY, D. WADE, BOOZER, DIRK, ARE NOOOOOOOOTTTTTTTTTT WALKING THRU THE ATLANTA HAWK DOOR!!!! NOT NOW, NOT EVER!! SOOOOO PLEASE BE QUIET WITH THIS ASSUMPTION OF PICKING UP SOMEBODEY BETTER THAN JOE JOHNSON, PERIOD!! ”
Half those guys, right now, are not better than Joe anyway.
doc
June 30th, 2010
8:34 pm
Ray the sane and rational understand. If u don’t have jj then u fold as u don’t have a ha d to play anymore. We get to pick up a cardbwe know is there maybe not an ace but a king
maybe that ring 2 princes. Without Joe we don’t plY and what for the next hand to be dealt.
I am all for this as I am s optimistic other teams don’t roll the dice and get what they want. Bosh and Wade concern me but bosh may have better optionw ln Houston to play with the big one. Boston is mot younger and magic still have vnce to weaken them and cavsmay not have bron who is the tovhear out of the three. With jj I still like ur chances if the hawks can solve the same riddle of the past five years .::. Who plays back up deep defense and who plays point to NBA championshi level?
drmaryb
June 30th, 2010
8:34 pm
Joe at Friedman’s Shoe Store!
Holding the Boots and thinking, ” if you ain’t got no LOOT? We ain’t knocking no BOOTS!”
Joe, look inside th BOOTS. (It’s like Ragu!). It’s on there!
I love me some Joe! Get paid – Not laid.
doc
June 30th, 2010
8:35 pm
Boy this is tough on I hone
JeJe
June 30th, 2010
8:37 pm
“@JeJe, really what player does that”
Kevin Garnett. Gilbert Arenas (took 15M paycut for what was supposed to be a near-contending team). IDK why Kobe is taking so much though
Oh wait- the Laker owners actually have money
Antonio Bolton
June 30th, 2010
8:38 pm
Thank you ClassicHawks like the name. I believe if Drew can maximize with his coaching we are right there. I think if we can Kurt Thomas or someone who will do the grunt work we will be rolling again. Against the Majic WOody was stubborn and would not play all the bigs. Boston ran all their bigs at Howard and frustrated him. Those are coaching issues. Everyone calling for Josh Smith head sure he’s little whily at times but he won us a ton of games with blocked shots and steals when he hustles. I think Drew is going to get him to do that. We’re not perfect but in both leagues combined we were ranked 6th or 7th. We are not far at all I don’t knwo what the HEll these damn people in this blog is talking about. I have been with the Hawks all my life I am a GRady-baby so I know the history of this team and I know we are on the brink of taking it all. Patience will pay off all our players are under 25 like you said. Maturation plays a part. Mostly, though, the ball is in Drew’s court. The right coaching and letting this team run for four quarters and no one will want to see us coming. I promise you.
ClassicHawks
June 30th, 2010
8:38 pm
@ NAJEH EXACTLY! JOE IS NOT A LEADER BUT I BELIEVE THE LEADER OF THIS TEAM WILL BE AL HORFORD EVENTUALLY. AL IS ONLY 23-24 YEARS OLD AND HE HAS ALREADY SHOWN SIGNS OF BEING A GOOD LEADER. JOE IS A SUPREME SCORER AND DEFENDER. I LOVE HIS GAME. HE IS THE 5TH BEST FREE AGENT IN THIS CLASS. PLEASE ATLANTA UNDERSTAND THAT JOE JOHNSON IS VERY GOOD! HE IS NOT A LEADER, HE IS MORE LIKE SCOTTIE THAN MIKE, BUT WE HAVE A CORE OF GOOD BODERLINE, GREAT PLAYERS, AND IF WE CAN EVER GET A BIG AND THE RIGHT COACHING SITUATION, WE CAN COMPETE FOR THE TITLE!! WE COULD BEAT BOSTON, AND IF CHICAGO LOADS UP WE CAN MATCH UP WITH THEM AS WELL. OUR TEAM IS SUPER YOUNG STILL. FORGET WHAT THE MEDIA SAYS ABOUT WE HAVE EXPERIENCE, REMEMBER WHEN YOU WAS 25, WHAT DID YOU REALLY KNOW. JOE IS IN HIS PRIME, DONT LET HIM WALK FOR NOTHING, HE IS IRREPLACEABLE!!!!!! NOW YOU KNOW!!!
Najeh Davenpoop
June 30th, 2010
8:40 pm
That iPhone keyboard is a b-tch, huh Doc? I know the feeling…
hryder
June 30th, 2010
8:42 pm
Anyone can say anything regarding salaries. No person is worth the type of contract mentioned, in my opinion. I understand the economics of professional sports and do understand that such a contract is in alignment. HOWEVER, I am unaware of any price for anything directly associated with viewing or attending a professional sporting(?) event that is a price that any reasoning sane nonmultimillionaire individual would consider close to being reasonably priced.
Swingman912
June 30th, 2010
8:43 pm
@Najeh,
Half of those players arent getting a max deal either………..Hopefully this is just a part of a s&t. If not, then hopefully Coach Drew’s new system changes a lot about the way Joe settles for the jumper and eats up the shot clock dribbling…………CHUUUUCH
Antonio Bolton
June 30th, 2010
8:46 pm
ALso we got a shooter who can throw it up like Jamal Crawford. That adds another weapon. IF we had a Haywood it would be over. SOmeone to stop penetration in the paint. ZKZurt Thomas, Maxell, get some beef for the paint. I think we have everything else that we need. WHat I like is we are no ttrying to be like evryone else we need to have our own identity as a team. Carve i tout from the get go. Set a precedence.
qlb
June 30th, 2010
8:47 pm
What people don’t understand is that this is it for free agency the next two years don’t have really any notable guys becoming free agents. From JJ perspective its business so I can’t hate on him for getting paid. The Hawks know if they loose him outright then the team will be worse. The hawks may still try to trade some of the other players on the team to acquire another star to come play with Joe. If we could get melo that would be good but realistically Denver not letting him go no where. Teague, JJ, Marvin, Smoove, Horford is still a good lineup in the east they need to get a backup Center to deal with D12. People fail to remember JJ hand was hurt this year a lot more than he was letting people know. The same injury J Heyward for the braves has. So if he cant swing a bat im sure it messes with you shooting a basketball as well.
bigdave
June 30th, 2010
8:48 pm
lol @ doc..
i thought you were suffering from a stroke.. but im with you on your points..
ClassicHawks
June 30th, 2010
8:51 pm
THE HAWKS NEED AN IDENTITY! THEY NEVER REALLY GOT ONE WITH COACH WOODSON BECAUSE I BELIEVE A LOT OF PLAYERS DIDN’T AGREE WITH PHILOSOPHY! ACCEPT JOE JOHNSON, WHO IS A TEAM PLAYER, WHO DOES WHAT IS ASKED!! ONCE THIS TEAM GETS IT IDENTITY, SKY IS THE LIMIT. GOOD COACHING AND GOOD PHILOSOPHY BREEDS A TEAM IDENTITY. I BELIEVE LARRY DREW HAS THE RIGHT APPROACH AND I BELIEVE TALENT WISE AND AGE WISE, THERE IS NO TEAM IN THE LEAGUE MESSING WITH THE HAWKS. ONE OR TWO PEICES AND GREAT COACHING WILL PUT US RIGHT ON PAR TO TAKING US SOMEWHERE WE HAVE NEVER BEEN BEFORE!! JEFF TEAGUE IS THE TOTAL KEY TO OUR FUTURE, IF LARRY DREW GETS HIM RIGHT, WITH ALL THE TALENT THAT KID HAS, THE HAWKS ARE GONNA BE SUPER TOUGH!!!!!
bigdave
June 30th, 2010
8:53 pm
Bibby starting to look a little like “mini-me”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbEA0S7b4Qs&feature=related @ 1:13
wow
June 30th, 2010
8:53 pm
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/413792-hawk-not-leaving-the-nest-joe-johnson-to-accept-atlantas-max-offer
Antonio Bolton
June 30th, 2010
8:54 pm
CLASSIC YOU ON POINT AND I DONT GIVE A DAMN WHAT THE REST OF THESE IMPLANTS IN THIS BLOG SAY. YOU ARE TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS. IF DREW DO SOME SIMPLE THINGS THIS TEAM IS ON THE WAY. RUN HARD AND FAST FOR FOUR QUARTERS AND PLAY SOME NASTY DEFENSE.
Sid
June 30th, 2010
8:56 pm
fools
SUPERMIKE
June 30th, 2010
8:56 pm
Please say “NO” to Joe!!! If he doesn’t like or respect the fans of Atlanta then why bring him back and force them to support him?
WillieD
June 30th, 2010
8:58 pm
Wow, I guess it’s true that no one wants to come to Atlanta. I was hoping for a play on Chris Bosh and a pass first PG. Nothing against Joe, but he should be more in the $10-$13M range, not $15-$20M. We won’t have money to draw more talent (which equals tickets sales). Work smart like the Spurs and Lakers.
doc
June 30th, 2010
8:59 pm
at najeh …. chuckle hard, especially when walking. i have a hard enohgh time on a std keyboard much less the i phone. g dad is in my league.
Blast
June 30th, 2010
8:59 pm
Section 303:
Rather harsh comments, isn’t it? Maybe evil even. Hit by a bus? Come on, dude!
I see fans feelings are still hurt by Joe’s comments during the playoffs. If you all can’t understand about saying stuff in the heat of a bad moment, goaded by reporters, if that’s all it takes to get under your skins, then either y’all are either super diehard Hawks fans, or you just need a life.
As has been so intelligently explained by some of our longest serving bloggers, giving Joe a max deal for 6 years only means a slight raise on his current salary. Joe already makes almost 16 mil a year. What difference does 2-3 mil extra make? Especially when I’m getting this good buzz that Drew is gonna actually implement an offensive scheme for the team. Anything that takes away the iso game is fine with me.
In truth, I believe Hawks woes in playoff 2nd round losses lay solely with coaching. Or lack of coaching. Us fans could see the iso game was not working, But Woody refused to change because he could not manufacture any other offense.
Antonio Bolton
June 30th, 2010
9:00 pm
What’s all the fuss about Bosh we shut him down the whole year I think he might have had one good game against us. Bosh is a good player but not great he would not add that dimension we need.
no id
June 30th, 2010
9:02 pm
Usually I don’t comment on here but most of yall sit back and watch ESPN getting info and come on here commenting thinking yall are experts now..so funny..and for the record, I’m all for Joe coming back with a new offense in plan instead of that iso joe.