Atlanta Hawks: All-in with max offer for Joe Johnson
When the Hawks meet with Joe Johnson in Los Angeles soon after the start of the free-agency negotiating period at 12:01 Thursday they are prepared to offer him a six-year contract for the maximum amount allowed, according to people with knowledge of their plans.
The exact amount of maximum contracts won’t be determined until a league audit is completed over the next week, but it’s expected to total about $119 million for a player with Johnson’s experience. The other teams making pitches to Joe can only offer him five years at about $92 million. I still believe that a gap of up to $27 million or so will be too much for Joe to turn down regardless of what other teams have to say about teaming up with LeBron or Bosh (or both), earning more in endorsements, or anything else not having to do with $27 million.
As a Bird-rights free agent, Johnson is eligible to receive from the Hawks a six-year contract starting at about $15.8 million with maximum raises of 10.5 percent in each year (the raises are based on the first-year salary and don’t compound). Keeping in mind that the numbers are not finalized, the year-by-year breakdown of the contract would look something like this: $15.8 million in 2010-11, $17.5 million in 2011-12, $19.4 million in 2012-13, $20.8 million in 2013-14, $22.4 million in 2014-15 and $24.1 million 2015-16. Joe would be 34-years old during the final season of the deal.
Before you ask, I’m wearing my beat writer’s beanie and keeping my opinion on this move to myself. Bret LaGree at Hoopinion . THHB at Peachtree Hoops and atl_hawk_luv at Hawks Str8Talk all offer reasonable takes on why they don’t like a max deal for J.J.
In analyzing this for yourself, keep in mind that the Hawks wouldn’t have the cap flexibility to find a comparable replacement for Joe in free agency. So if you want him gone, it means accepting that the Hawks probably wouldn’t be as good without him in the short term (LaGree and atl_hawk_luv explained why they think that’s OK). Also remember that if Joe accepts the deal and continues to produce at his current level for a couple years he could be a very tradeable asset in the future; his contract wouldn’t necessarily become an albatross.
MC
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672 comments Add your comment
DJ
June 30th, 2010
6:41 pm
Anyone who says the Hawks need to trade Al is stupid. He is turning into a leader for the team, hes is control of the little chemistry thats left. If we trade him all hell is going to break loose in the locker room…
ddd-house
June 30th, 2010
6:41 pm
nooooooooooooo, don’t do it. did anyone see PTI when they were talking about Joe playoff numbers, those number are bad, not a max player number. he let the bucks push them to a 7game. go after rudy gay, look at his numbers, just as good as joe’s if not better; that is who i would go after and he younger and you don’t have to pay him that much
Tyler
June 30th, 2010
6:41 pm
If the hawks can sign and trade JJ to Denver, along with anybody besides JSmith, Horford, Crawford or Teague, for Carmelo, and could sign Carmelo to an extension (which Denver has not been able to do), than by all means do the trade.
Carmelo is a far better basketball player than JJ. Imagine next years roster possibly looking like this:
PG Teague
G Jamal Crawford
F JSmith
F Carmelo Anthony
C Horford
That’s a team that has a chance of going far
Mike Jay
June 30th, 2010
6:42 pm
All this talk about us not winning a championship for the next 5 years is silly. Wade and lebron (amybe Bosh too) are going to be destroying teams for the next 5 years in Miami. no move we make today or the next 3+ years will change that. This resigning enables us to keep a pretty entertaining and successful team together for the foreseeable future.
i_am_soulstar
June 30th, 2010
6:42 pm
If Jeff Teague has a breakout season, kiss mediocrity goodbye.
Reid Adair
June 30th, 2010
6:43 pm
This is bad new. Very bad news. Joe Johnson is not worth a max contract.
ILL-logical
June 30th, 2010
6:43 pm
@Strickland: Soundest analysis of the day goes to…. YOU!
bigdave
June 30th, 2010
6:44 pm
some of yall act like Joe slapped yall mama.. stole some of your money.. or f-cked ya b…
acting real soft like. all warm and fuzzy inside..
Texas Pete
June 30th, 2010
6:45 pm
Stop playing video game basketball people. 53 wins is nothing to sneeze at with this still young team. Resign Joe, see what Drew can do, see how the young guys continue to develop and see how the rest of the East looks after the FA shakeup. While people still love to bash Josh Smith, let’s not forget many felt he deserved an all-star spot over Horford at the actual break. What if Smith continues to improve as he’s done ever season? Horford is only going to get better too. It could be worse…
Football Fan
June 30th, 2010
6:45 pm
Offering a max contract to a second-tier all-star would cripple the Hawks young roster. The team is growing up and no longer needs Joe as the greybeard.
Notso Fast
June 30th, 2010
6:45 pm
Sign and trade sounds better & better. JJ is not worth that to the Hawks. He will not draw fans in and he will not make the players around him better.
D Hawks
June 30th, 2010
6:46 pm
I still think another deal or three is in the works in addition to this signing. We still haven’t seen a summer league roster even though practice should start in a few days, and we never had an introduction of Jordan Crawford to the media. Also, a coaching staff has to be hired. I don’t see ASG, “brilliant” as they are, resigning JJ to a max deal without the thought that other personnel moves could improve this team. I shudder at the thought that they would think resigning JJ and hiring Larry Drew as HC, both poor PR moves, would be enough to get this team to another level in the playoffs.
By the way, MC, will the summer league practices at Philips be open to the public? That would be a good PR move by ASG who sorely needs it based on these postings.
i_am_soulstar
June 30th, 2010
6:46 pm
If Joe signs, and Childress comes aboard with 4.8 mil QO, the Hawks are gonna send somebody packing.
It’s likely gonna be Mo Evans or Crawford. Both have expring contracts. I’d really hate to see Crawford’s 17 points go, but to echo the sentiments of many on this blog, if we could get better through defense with a Jamal Crawford trade, then I’m all for it.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 30th, 2010
6:47 pm
This deal does ensure, though, that the only ways this team improves on this year’s finish are by one of three things happening (in order from most to least likely):
1. Jeff Teague blossoming into a star
2. Jamal Crawford being traded for one or two role players at positions of need and Jordan Crawford, Mo Evans, and maybe Mike Bibby stepping up to provide 80% or more of his production
3. Larry Drew being a major improvement on Mike Woodson
fayncdawg
June 30th, 2010
6:47 pm
Sign and trade for CP3 possible???
Luke Cage
June 30th, 2010
6:47 pm
LOL@bigdave, you would think they are paying his deal, like i’ve said before its not my money so they can give him whateva, Keep Horford and trade everyone else
i_am_soulstar
June 30th, 2010
6:50 pm
Actually, I’d rather they just convince someone to take Marvin.
D Hawks
June 30th, 2010
6:50 pm
I should say the Hawks haven’t hired any new assistant coaches. Maybe no other changes are being made.
ClassicHawks
June 30th, 2010
6:52 pm
I think it is a shrewd move. I like what Rick Sund Is doing personally. I’m starting to believe that the ASG is wanting to win. Is it the smart to lock into a player for 6 years, No. But the position the Hawks Are in they have to make this move! We still have a young core, with josh, al, marvin, teague still under 25. Meaning they are gonna get better!! You have to have two to three all-stars on your club to win a championship. We lose Joe, we are not ever going to compete at the level we are at now. We get an offense with some more Bigs, and if jeff teague is developed into the player I think he is, Man this team will be scary, and championship caliber. We had problems with Orlando because of chemistry and coaching! Orlando is not that much better than us! They are a vet team who had a better coach, PERIOD! Chemistry on this team became horrible because they really wanted to win, but the Mike Woodson Bull Headed Approach was astrocious in the Bucks Series! That did em in! I was skeptical On the Larry Drew Hire, Now I have listen to His approach and I kinda Like It. I was Skeptical On The Draft Trade, But Now I Love It! We need Joe Back Or a Player Like Caron Butler, John Salmons, someone who score the rock. Regardless of what we say, joe coming back would keep us an elite squad with a chance to win a TITLE in the next 4 years. What more can you ask for? We get rid of Joe we will barely make the playoffs, and pray we can sign somebody in free agency later on in life. With this move Joe know he can 27 million more, and he also knows he can be signed and traded now, and that is exactly what the Hawks Want Anyway!! SMART MOVE ASG, SMART MOVE!! Can’t believe I’m Starting To Believe in There Plan… Stranger things have happened.
Ninja
June 30th, 2010
6:53 pm
Everyone needs to quit the crying! We need JJ to make the push for a championship! Peopla saying he is only in it for the money is full of it! If you were in his shoes, you would want to make s much money as possible, so people need to shut the f!@k up! If we don’t resign him, we will probably fall back down to the bottom half of the division.
John
June 30th, 2010
6:53 pm
We have to resign him. Yall are crazy if you think a player better than him will fall into our laps.
i_am_soulstar
June 30th, 2010
6:56 pm
The two times I’ve talked to Coach Drew (last time was a week ago), he says Teague is in the gym everyday and hadn’t even left Atlanta for vacation yet. Usually when players go that hard in the offseason, it translates into regular season success, or improvement at least. I have high hopes for that kid.
Football Fan
June 30th, 2010
6:58 pm
If we trade Jamal Crawford I will not watch a Hawks game all year. He is the sole reason that we won more games this year.
Texas Pete
June 30th, 2010
6:59 pm
Football_Fan,
Exactly how is signing Joe to the max contract going to cripple the roster? We’re not a lottery team anymore. What else are we going to do that doesn’t involve trading our young players? Some of the big names people want to trade for would command Horford or Smith, not our bench players. A sign-and-trade involving JJ would still be a good option if we get the right player(s) in return but that requires signing him so I still by my post. It could be worse.
ddd-house
June 30th, 2010
7:01 pm
anyone that is saying to trade Jamal Crawford are nuts. is game is better than joe’s. he can take over games and when games like he many time last years. I would not mind see him start games
GT Alum
June 30th, 2010
7:05 pm
bigdave and SWAT Native, if those comments were just made in the heat of the moment, then why isn’t he man enough to just cop up to it and say so?
Larry
June 30th, 2010
7:08 pm
Let him walk and sign Anthony Morrow from Golden State to back up Crawford trade Zaza and Marvin for Bedrinis and resign Childress do not sign him to a max contract.
Teague-Bibby-FA
Crawford-Morrow
Smoove-Childress- (Rookie Crawford)
Al H-Smoove
Bedrinis-Al H
Very flexible line up and allows you to use MLE and still be very competitive maybe better because bench will be stronger won championship in my fantasy league why not make me Hawks GM. 100,000 per year salary 75,000 during lock out next year. If your willing to pay Joe the max go out and get some ballers Keep Smith ,Horford, (2) Crawfords and Teague he should flashes Woodson would have sat Rondo and Paul if he was coach and we woulda been calling them bust.
MitchC
June 30th, 2010
7:09 pm
Michael, given the list of choices the Hawks have, they are probably best just giving Johnson the max offer, hoping he accepts it, and keeping him. My guess is that with him, we will remain the same 50 plus win competetive team that we were this year. We aren’t Boston or Orlando championship caliber, but we are probably similar to what we used to be when we had Dominique in the 80s.
If Johnson goes to the Knicks, we will know he is really stupid. The Knicks havent had a 500 season in how long? They are probably the furthest away from winning of any team that would offer Joe a serious contract. At least the Hawks are very playoff competetive.
If this is the best we can do, then keep him. Forget about the fan comments, or what else we might or might not get. Just give him the money and hope we can be as competetive as possible for as long as possible.
erock
June 30th, 2010
7:10 pm
he is a third team player i repeat a third team player do not pay a third team player the max salary
Greg
June 30th, 2010
7:12 pm
What a waste and a joke. For a guy who shunned fans they offer him that. I won’t be going to any hawks games this year. They are stupid to do this. They are not going to be better than Orl and Miami. So your wasting money. Might as well suck for a while, try getting some good draft picks and then be good in 4-5 years when Leb, Howard, Wade etc are past their prime.
dstdeelite
June 30th, 2010
7:13 pm
“Ignorance is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”
Same starting lineup for two straight=second round exit after embarrassing sweep
Najeh Davenpoop
June 30th, 2010
7:13 pm
“If we trade Jamal Crawford I will not watch a Hawks game all year. He is the sole reason that we won more games this year.”
I don’t think anyone wants Crawford gone. I sure don’t. But it’s going to come down to managing the salary cap in a way that maximizes the money you spend. Crawford’s $10 million deal expires this year. Next summer is Al Horford’s restricted free agent year, and you can bet if the Hawks don’t make him a reasonable offer someone else will come along and try to sign him. He will require $11 million or so per year to sign. Between his new deal and Joe’s max deal, as well as everyone else who is currently on the roster, the Hawks will be at nearly $60 million in team salary before even beginning negotiations with Jamal. Jamal will be 31 when his contract expires, and as much as he may like it here, he is going to be a hot commodity trying to sign his last big contract; the chances of him taking a major pay cut is slim. In addition, the Hawks drafted a guy who pretty much duplicates what Jamal does.
It boils down to this — the chances of the Hawks re-signing Jamal next summer are slim even if they do keep him now. The chances of them acquiring a difference-making big man or small forward to fortify the weak positions on the roster, using only the mid-level exception, are slim. Jamal’s expiring deal is the most attractive trade piece they have. All this adds up to a Jamal trade being the easiest and most likely way of filling needs at other positions.
Im not a Businessman Im a Business MAN!
June 30th, 2010
7:13 pm
I know several people have already proposed this but why wouldn’t the hawks pursue a S&T for Joe for Carmello give and take some assets. I would MUCH rather pay Mello the Max then Joe. This would also be an economically smart move as ASG is struggling to get people in the door with their attendance issues (ex: handing out free tickets to Game 1 and 2 of the playoffs). Also Carmello is much more nationally watched as a player and much more marketable (ex: he ranks 10th in most jerseys sold this year). I understand that this is a business but this just seems to make the most sense as other teams are more focused on LeBron, Wade, Bosh and Johnson.
dstdeelite
June 30th, 2010
7:14 pm
So who’ll be responsible for putting up the poll asking Hawks’ fans if they agree with the potential max deal being offered for JJ’s services?
i_am_soulstar
June 30th, 2010
7:14 pm
Jamal Crawford probably is a better offensive weapon than Joe Johnson.
But if offense is all that matters, then Stephen Curry and Monta Ellis would be the best backcourt in the league. PER has its flaws, but it’s a much better measure of player efficiency than points scored.
The Hawks that rank in the top 50 in PER are Josh Smith @ #20, Al Horford @ #31, Joe Johnson @ #32, and Jamal Crawford @ #43.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2fhollinger%2fstatistics
Crawford can’t start because his defense is terrible. Don’t get me wrong, his scoring will help us win extra regular season games all day. But his defense could never net anyone a championship. That’s why he’s the best 6th man in the league, because all that’s asked of the 6th man is to put the ball in the bucket and little else.
Luke Cage
June 30th, 2010
7:16 pm
@ddd-house, I like Crawford but he is just a offensive weapon off the bench which is perfect for this team, if he was all that like you said then why is this is his 4th team and it was the first time in the playoffs, and if I recall, Crawford sucked against the magic also
i_am_soulstar
June 30th, 2010
7:19 pm
Also,
Crawford has had little success starting for the Warriors, Bulls, or Knicks. He puts up big numbers but can’t stop anyone on the other end of the court. The Hawks were the team to finally get it right, so hats off to Rick Sund for that.
i_am_soulstar
June 30th, 2010
7:19 pm
Luke Cage, you beat me to it.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 30th, 2010
7:20 pm
“why wouldn’t the hawks pursue a S&T for Joe for Carmello give and take some assets. I would MUCH rather pay Mello the Max then Joe. This would also be an economically smart move as ASG is struggling to get people in the door with their attendance issues (ex: handing out free tickets to Game 1 and 2 of the playoffs). Also Carmello is much more nationally watched as a player and much more marketable (ex: he ranks 10th in most jerseys sold this year).”
You provide several fantastic reasons as to why the Hawks should try to sign-and-trade Joe for Carmelo. But you don’t mention a single reason why Denver would make that trade. Two teams have to agree in order for a trade to occur. There’s no logical reason why Denver would ever agree to do that.
Not picking on you, but everyone who posts here needs to follow this general rule — if you are going to come up with a proposed trade idea, you need to justify why BOTH teams would do it.
Luke Cage
June 30th, 2010
7:27 pm
Who knows Najeh that trade still may happen
Big Ray
June 30th, 2010
7:31 pm
I am Soulstar ,
Agreeing with a lot of what you say, I have to say that in my humble opinion, Jamal is not a better offensive weapon than Joe. Crawford is streakier, but he probably draws more fouls. The difference is the speed with which he attacks. He’s a quicker gunslinger than Joe, but a less accurate one. The career numbers speak for themselves. I’ll say that Jamal isn’t that far off as a scorer, though.
You’re more than right about the defense. And that’s the other half of the complete game. I’m open to your counterpoints, though. Always.
Najeh ,
Calm and sensible comments, my friend. Not seeing too many of those lately.
Real Truth
June 30th, 2010
7:31 pm
Agent Lon Babby was on the mike and mike show this morning. And when asked what the number 1 priority of free agents was in his experience, he said it was money without a doubt. Only in the case of an older player who had already had his second big contract would a player take a little less to have a chance at a ring. But in the case of max dollars, players are all about the money. I have said it all along, teams who offer their players the 6yr max will retain them. If the hawks really offered Joe the max he will sign. Wade is definently staying in Miami, and I believe that Lebron will stay in Cleveland. And I have already heard that if the Suns make Amare a good offer he will stay in Phoneix. The only player that probably will be moving is Bosh and thats only because the raptors have agreed to try to work out a sign and trade. All of this soap opera talk about stars teaming up and this player going to this new team or that one is all B*llsh*t. In the end they all cave for the most money just like Lon Babby pointed out this morning.
Big Ray
June 30th, 2010
7:32 pm
Crawford sucked less against the Magic, but that’s a hair I’m not really willing to split.
Catch y’all later….
mica
June 30th, 2010
7:36 pm
I predict Joe Johnson will resign with the Hawks and use all his cash to buy out all you fair weather fans’ tickets that think you are as important as an actual player and think that just because he ain’t James or Bryant he’s nobody. If I’m wrong and he leaves then I guess you can be happy with getting pissed at his replacement for each and every off game he has. Get a life!
i_am_soulstar
June 30th, 2010
7:38 pm
Crawford’s offensive output won’t be matched though, and we’d just have to live with that. His per-36 averages are better than Joe Johnson I believe.
Connermac
June 30th, 2010
7:39 pm
Why in the world would anyone in their right mind offer JJ that much money. He is a good player not GREAT. the iso Joe works when he is making shots but makes you a loser if not. plus he is a no factor in playoff games. Let him go. the hawks ill be sorry in a couple of years if this happens
Tony
June 30th, 2010
7:44 pm
I DO NOT WANT JOE back in a hawks uniform. period. We can still make the playoffs without him. I want guys on the hawks that want to be here and respect and love us as fans. AL, Josh, Marvin (still waiting), Jamal, Zaza and Jeff, I will cheer for them. Signing Joe will handicap us. Dumb move hawks. But what should we expect. Hawks ownership are desperate. Desperate men do desperate things. I would rather pay Avery Johnson or Dwane Casey 2-4mil per year and let Joe, TAKE A WALK!!
i_am_soulstar
June 30th, 2010
7:46 pm
Ray,
I think you’re right. If all Joe was asked to do was score, he’d probably be putting Crawford’s numbers to shame.
DP
June 30th, 2010
7:47 pm
Resign Joe Johnson
Do a sign and trade for Rudy Gay(Trade Jamal Crawford for Rudy Gay)
Also sign Brendan Haywood
Then trade Childress rights to the Wizards for JaVale McGee
We also might need to cut Mike Bibby because his contract is impossible to trade and we should sign a solid point guard to replace him and let Teague start
WTF
June 30th, 2010
7:49 pm
No way. JJ isn’t a max money player by any stretch. TO be max money we’re talking Kobe, D. Wade, Lebron tpyes not JJ who disappears at critical times in the playoffs.