Atlanta Hawks: All-in with max offer for Joe Johnson
When the Hawks meet with Joe Johnson in Los Angeles soon after the start of the free-agency negotiating period at 12:01 Thursday they are prepared to offer him a six-year contract for the maximum amount allowed, according to people with knowledge of their plans.
The exact amount of maximum contracts won’t be determined until a league audit is completed over the next week, but it’s expected to total about $119 million for a player with Johnson’s experience. The other teams making pitches to Joe can only offer him five years at about $92 million. I still believe that a gap of up to $27 million or so will be too much for Joe to turn down regardless of what other teams have to say about teaming up with LeBron or Bosh (or both), earning more in endorsements, or anything else not having to do with $27 million.
As a Bird-rights free agent, Johnson is eligible to receive from the Hawks a six-year contract starting at about $15.8 million with maximum raises of 10.5 percent in each year (the raises are based on the first-year salary and don’t compound). Keeping in mind that the numbers are not finalized, the year-by-year breakdown of the contract would look something like this: $15.8 million in 2010-11, $17.5 million in 2011-12, $19.4 million in 2012-13, $20.8 million in 2013-14, $22.4 million in 2014-15 and $24.1 million 2015-16. Joe would be 34-years old during the final season of the deal.
Before you ask, I’m wearing my beat writer’s beanie and keeping my opinion on this move to myself. Bret LaGree at Hoopinion . THHB at Peachtree Hoops and atl_hawk_luv at Hawks Str8Talk all offer reasonable takes on why they don’t like a max deal for J.J.
In analyzing this for yourself, keep in mind that the Hawks wouldn’t have the cap flexibility to find a comparable replacement for Joe in free agency. So if you want him gone, it means accepting that the Hawks probably wouldn’t be as good without him in the short term (LaGree and atl_hawk_luv explained why they think that’s OK). Also remember that if Joe accepts the deal and continues to produce at his current level for a couple years he could be a very tradeable asset in the future; his contract wouldn’t necessarily become an albatross.
MC
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672 comments Add your comment
lets go!!
July 1st, 2010
10:05 am
nobody
IS DUMB AS HELL, STICK TO SOCCER
John Shaft
July 1st, 2010
10:06 am
The reason every body want to trade horford is he is a free loader!
Coach Smith
I like this one better… but you are on the right track.
That would create a lineup of Joe Johnson, Carmelo Anthony, Josh Smoove assse Smith, and Bibby/Jamal Crawford
lets go!!
July 1st, 2010
10:06 am
nobody
GO TO WORK U INTERNET NERD
nobody
July 1st, 2010
10:12 am
Rough Rider: Its his third season……….He should have won rookie of the year, he averaged 10 rebounds last year and is a leader on this team. He is young, that means his number go up. not stay the same. His career average doesnt mean $H!T Through three years David Lee averaged 8 points. Look at him now….He also played at Florida
nobody
July 1st, 2010
10:15 am
Hahahaha yall are ammusing. Im the dumb one because I want to trade an All-star…………….
i_am_soulstar
July 1st, 2010
10:15 am
Rough Rider,
You make a valid point, but i don’t think players always know what the best move is for the team as a whole. If that was the case, then roster moves would be decided by lockerroom votes.
Lebron lobbied heard for Shaq, and the Cavaliers played less efficiently when he was on the floor, and could not compete with the C’s in the 2nd round.
Horford plays center pretty well, is going into his 4th year, made the all-star team, and makes 4.3 million. Considering his contract size, you’re not gonna get a good player back in an Al Horford trade unless you package him.
And besides, teams just don’t trade overachieving guys on rookie contracts.
i_am_soulstar
July 1st, 2010
10:16 am
lobbied hard*
nobody
July 1st, 2010
10:17 am
There are some real idiots on here today. Wow. Horford is not a freeloader. He won back to back titles at Florida. Came here and should have won ROY and helped the hawks get to the playoffs, then helped lead the hawks back to the playoffs. Then made it to the All-star game this year averaging 15 and 10. Yeah, hes a terrible player. YOU SHOULD EFFING STAY TO SOCCER. they might enjoy your constant caps lock. STFU loser.
Atlanta Spirit
July 1st, 2010
10:18 am
We don’t want/expect him to come back to us. This just makes us look like we are not the cheapskates that we really are.
nobody
July 1st, 2010
10:19 am
Like I_am_soulstar said. There is a reason we have GMs and scouting departments and dont just let the players make all the decisions.
coach smith
July 1st, 2010
10:19 am
John Shaft
who is playing Center or even in the paint out of your lineup? otherwise yeah thats not bad
nobody
July 1st, 2010
10:20 am
Coach Smith if we could somehow get Carmello I dont think it will be possible to have a bad lineup. haha. I think we would all be happy if that happened
dawgfan13
July 1st, 2010
10:24 am
This is a HUGE mistake. They should do a sign and trade with Dallas and get some of their players.
John Shaft
July 1st, 2010
10:25 am
“Horford plays center pretty well, is going into his 4th year, made the all-star team, and makes 4.3 million. Considering his contract size, you’re not gonna get a good player back in an Al Horford trade unless you package him.”- Even Horford admits the hawks need a real center. My question to you is if Horford gets and extension to his contract (sign and trade) would he have to be packaged?
coach smith thats a good point, I guess id have to lure camby or heywood here. i dont need much offensive with that line up I need a defensive guy. Your point is well taken.
nobody
July 1st, 2010
10:27 am
May I just ask why you dont think Horford is a main piece to this team? This is open to anyone
eric
July 1st, 2010
10:28 am
i’m so glad you dummy in atlanta are willing to let the only guy that was willing to come your sorry @$$ team when u were in the bottom of the crapper (eastern division) and just like phoenix who also declined to reconize his talent when they had the finale piece to there puzzle to win that elusive title. the only difference is u stupid fans booed your own player and wants to play for fans that boo you when you win over 70% of your games and u lose then they want head. PLEASE LEAVE EVEN FOR LESS and i’m gonna laugh all year long at u idiots HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!
nobody
July 1st, 2010
10:28 am
dawgfan: Joe and the Hawks are meeting with Dallas and Houston later today to discuss S&T per YahooSports
drmaryb
July 1st, 2010
10:29 am
Nobody
in that yahoo article said: joe and the Hawks are meeting with other teams later today to
discuss S&T deals. NOBODY said that and that is why his comment is as irrelevant as his user I’d.
Reading comprehension is key to intelligent conversations – yes RIF (reading is fundamental).
lets go!!
July 1st, 2010
10:29 am
nodody
YO MAMA HAD A DUMB CHILD AND THATS U
nobody
July 1st, 2010
10:29 am
Did erics comment make any sense to anybody?
nobody
July 1st, 2010
10:31 am
drmaryb whatre you trying to even say? The article I posted said Joe is meeting with Dallas and Houston. what is your point?
Rough Rider
July 1st, 2010
10:32 am
Rough Rider,
You make a valid point, but i don’t think players always know what the best move is for the team as a whole. If that was the case, then roster moves would be decided by lockeroom votes.
I have to agree with you that lebron was clueless, however, its different when the player himself suggests that he go back to his natural position conceding that the hawks would be better with a real center. I agree with the lebron thing but this is not the same case. Horford wants out of the position, and 1 week after that article seeing that Sund chose no center in the draft, Al said that if you are going to force him to play out of position get him some help. I think Al knows best, hes no center and we will have to get a real one to start if we are going higher.
Rough Rider
July 1st, 2010
10:33 am
drmaryb
July 1st, 2010
10:29 am
Have you read the article or seen a link for it?
Don't Drink the Coolade
July 1st, 2010
10:36 am
JOE JOHNSON + 6 YRS AT 119 MILLION = 4 YEARS OF MEDIOCRITY – 1 YR UNDERACHIEVING – 1 YEAR OF REBUILDING (WHEN WE DUMP HIS SALARY IN YR 6)
HAWKS OWNERS/MANAGEMENT DOESN’T GET IT – 7 OF THE TOP 13 PAID PLAYERS IN THIS LEAGUE ARE “DEAD WEIGHT” THEY PROVIDE NOTHING AT ALL TO THEIR FRANCHISES. JOE JOHNSON IS NOT A TOP TIER PLAYER WHO CAN LIFT A FRANCHISE TO A CHAMPIONSHIP – HE IS A GLORIFIED ROLE PLAYER WITH NO BALLS – THIS WILL SET THE FRANCHISE BACK 6 TO 8 YEARS!
nobody
July 1st, 2010
10:36 am
lets go: good, solid, and mature comeback. Im really impressed…….
Rough Rider
July 1st, 2010
10:46 am
May I just ask why you dont think Horford is a main piece to this team? This is open to anyone
How do you build around a career 12 pts no block or alter shots 9 rbs and not much else…What the hell do you build around? You say he was added to the all star team. But be serious, His numbers are sh!t. He average 13 points in his best college year, 14 points his best pro year, has a career average of 12 pts and He doesnt posses defensive strength in the post. Offensively he has to be set up. Opposing coaches love to isolate him under the basket and he cant shoot over bigger centers.
What do you build around, his popularity? Popularity dont win ball games.
i_am_soulstar
July 1st, 2010
10:47 am
RoughRider,
The problem is that Al plays the position efficiently. He may be better at power forward, but he’s still above average at center. I’d love to see him at power forward as well, but when you have an efficient starting center who only has a problem with 1 or 2 guys in the league (and is likely venting frustration from a one-sided playoff matchup), the best thing to do is bring in a quality back-up center to contain those 1 or 2 guys rather than try and replace him at that position.
Unless you’re open to trading Josh..
Everyone has a problem with Dwight. Just because Horford couldn’t solve the puzzle makes him no less of a starting center than the other 28 guys that Dwight beats up on.
TJ
July 1st, 2010
10:47 am
I like Joe Johnson, but the Hawks need someone to carry the team during the playoffs… JJ didn’t do that.
I think we’d be better served to sign him to a max deal (for his efforts the past year), and then trade him for as much as we can get.
Rough Rider
July 1st, 2010
10:49 am
i_am_soulstar
July 1st, 2010
10:15 am
Hey love Im sorry, I meant the following to be a reply to your question.
Rough Rider
July 1st, 2010
10:32 am
Manny
July 1st, 2010
10:50 am
Joe Johnson will accept the contract. He will be stupid not to do so. I would. That’s the most money that he’s going to get and all that dumb “I’m gonna make more money on ads in New York” stuff was smoke-screen. He can barely talk!
So this is a done deal. The Hawks would only impress me if it is a sign-and-trade deal. But he’s going to sign.
nobody
July 1st, 2010
10:51 am
Thank you I_am_soulstar ive been saying that all day. no one can guard Howard. He is not a measuring stick. And Rough Rider, its his third year. His numbers have INCREASED each year. His fellow Florida Alumni, David Lee, averaged 8 points through his first three years. But yeah, he still sucks…..
Rough Rider
July 1st, 2010
10:52 am
Whats your definition of above average? efficient? We may have 2 different measuring sticks. I dont see Al as above average. Hes mediocre at best.
Down in Salvador, Brazil!
July 1st, 2010
10:52 am
Sign Joe and Childress! Trade Jamal, Smoove and Bibby!
Jamal’s trade value is at an all-time high! He was awesome last year, but can’t play D. I love Smoove (he’s a menace on D and makes opposing players think twice about attacking the rim, but he often doesn’t pay attention and whines way too much when calls don’t go his way! He should never lead the break and never should take shots outside of 15 feet! I don’t think he or Drew can correct this. Bibby has concrete feet and can’t stay in front of anyone.
We need a low post presence… either at the Center (so we can move Horford to the 4) or a banger at the 4 (and keep Horford at the 5). We also need a vet PG as a plan B if Teague isn’t ready to take over the starting position. It would be interesting to see what type of package we could get for Smoove, Jamal and Bibby.
Thoughts?
hawk
July 1st, 2010
10:53 am
someone please wake me up and tell me this is not about to happen.
nobody
July 1st, 2010
10:53 am
Does no one remember that our playoff drout before Horford arrived?
nobody
July 1st, 2010
10:54 am
Okay Rough Rider name me 10 Centers in the league that are all around better than al horford?
Melvin
July 1st, 2010
10:56 am
Did Rough Rider just agreed with himself @10:32????
nobody
July 1st, 2010
10:56 am
too bad the clippers got rid of Camby and have Blake Griffin because I could get used to a Smith for Kaman Trade
Hoops
July 1st, 2010
11:04 am
Hawks will S&T Joe with Dallas or Houston. We will come out of this alright!!!
Your Perspective is Wrong
July 1st, 2010
11:06 am
Listen up people! I will tell you ONE more time:
It’s clear now. The ASG see’s the writing on the wall. They know that they cannot be profitable in their ownership. The ONLY way that they can turn this sows ear into a silk purse is to sell the team within ONE OR TWO YEARS.
Now do you want to sell a team WITH JJ or without JJ. Obviously with JJ. Anyone who can afford to buy this franchise won’t care about picking up the last 3-4 years on JJ’s contract.
The idea is to increase the value of the franchise NOW and sell. They are not worried about later.
Mark my words. The Hawks will have new owners within 2 years.
Rough Rider
July 1st, 2010
11:06 am
nobody
July 1st, 2010
10:51 am
I appreciate your fondness for Al, perhaps you miss the above post which includes Al’s career numbers. I think you are a Al horford fan and there is nothing wrong with that. I try to look past Al’s popularity (on this site, not so popular on others) and look at the numbers so Im glad you brought that up.
There are 32 players who average more block shots than Al, 15 who average more rebounds than Al. I think there were 62 players who average 8 or more rebounds, Al averages 9. Al has a . 41 block shot to personal foul ratio which means on average he has 3 fiouls by the time he has 1 block and would be forced to the bench. Im not blindly hating or supporting Al. Just the facts.
You say made the popularity contest known as the All star game but he was not good enough to make either of the 3 strings on the All NBA team, Nor was he good enough to make the NBA all defensive team on any sting.
Ive heard the argument that Howard is the only one Al cant stop? Tell me What center did Al shut down?
Now let keep it clean and deal with facts I ve asked you some serious questions and I extend them to i_am_soulstar . Try to deal with the facts on this discussion and not get overwhelmed with emotions. Show me the stats that put Al above average category.
eric
July 1st, 2010
11:09 am
Enter your comments here
Rough Rider
July 1st, 2010
11:11 am
Rough Rider
July 1st, 2010
10:52 am
Whats your definition of above average? efficient? We may have 2 different measuring sticks. I dont see Al as above average. Hes mediocre at best.- still waiting i_am_soulstar….
Melvin No, the first paragraph was a post from i_am_soulstar the second was a response to it….
nobody
July 1st, 2010
11:11 am
Rough Rider. I see your facts. But ive already said. He is in his third year. Stats on a third year player dont really mean much. He is stil improving. He has tons of offensive talent and is an amazing rebounder. He is our best step out big man. He roams the floor on defense pretty well.
vava74
July 1st, 2010
11:13 am
TS,
Horford was playing under a switching D system which both kept him away from the basket for rebounds and blocks.
Your stats are worthless since Al is recognized as a top talent throughout the NBA – albeit slightly undersized to play C.
The solution is to have a big body coming off the bench to relieve him and let him slide to the PF slot for 15 minutes whilst Josh rests, then Josh can come in back to the game and give a breather to Al.
nobody
July 1st, 2010
11:13 am
Its funny how yall complain about Iso Joe and him being a ball hog but then say Horford doesnt score. Maybe its because Iso Joe…….
eric
July 1st, 2010
11:13 am
i’m so happy that joe is leaving atl and as soon as u don’t win al will be booed and he will leave and u boo j smith he will leave and your hawk will be back at 20+ wins and i’m gonna be so tickled at u dummies. THANK YOU HAWKS FANS FOR YOUR BOOS
nobody
July 1st, 2010
11:14 am
vava74: Absolutely Perfect Post. I hate people that just throw stats blindly.
nobody
July 1st, 2010
11:17 am
man espn sucks so bad. no news on gooden. Everything worth reading you have to pay for. And much of their speculation is wrong.
O'Brien
July 1st, 2010
11:22 am
Nobody,
Some fans just dont get it. The true value of horford is not known to us fans.
But ask any GM or coach (including Doc rivers) if they wouldnt love to have horford on their team? Ask any NBA analyst about horford, and they all speak glowingly of his ability, his skill, leadership, maturity and potential.
But some fans think they know it all SMH…