Atlanta Hawks: All-in with max offer for Joe Johnson
When the Hawks meet with Joe Johnson in Los Angeles soon after the start of the free-agency negotiating period at 12:01 Thursday they are prepared to offer him a six-year contract for the maximum amount allowed, according to people with knowledge of their plans.
The exact amount of maximum contracts won’t be determined until a league audit is completed over the next week, but it’s expected to total about $119 million for a player with Johnson’s experience. The other teams making pitches to Joe can only offer him five years at about $92 million. I still believe that a gap of up to $27 million or so will be too much for Joe to turn down regardless of what other teams have to say about teaming up with LeBron or Bosh (or both), earning more in endorsements, or anything else not having to do with $27 million.
As a Bird-rights free agent, Johnson is eligible to receive from the Hawks a six-year contract starting at about $15.8 million with maximum raises of 10.5 percent in each year (the raises are based on the first-year salary and don’t compound). Keeping in mind that the numbers are not finalized, the year-by-year breakdown of the contract would look something like this: $15.8 million in 2010-11, $17.5 million in 2011-12, $19.4 million in 2012-13, $20.8 million in 2013-14, $22.4 million in 2014-15 and $24.1 million 2015-16. Joe would be 34-years old during the final season of the deal.
Before you ask, I’m wearing my beat writer’s beanie and keeping my opinion on this move to myself. Bret LaGree at Hoopinion . THHB at Peachtree Hoops and atl_hawk_luv at Hawks Str8Talk all offer reasonable takes on why they don’t like a max deal for J.J.
In analyzing this for yourself, keep in mind that the Hawks wouldn’t have the cap flexibility to find a comparable replacement for Joe in free agency. So if you want him gone, it means accepting that the Hawks probably wouldn’t be as good without him in the short term (LaGree and atl_hawk_luv explained why they think that’s OK). Also remember that if Joe accepts the deal and continues to produce at his current level for a couple years he could be a very tradeable asset in the future; his contract wouldn’t necessarily become an albatross.
MC
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672 comments Add your comment
Hmmm
July 1st, 2010
7:14 am
Joe is an exellent SHOOTER not an Exellent scorer(LBJ, Durant, Carmelo) . Leave the man alone! If we had a REAL PG and allowed him to just shoot nobody would be crying so shut up! Hopefully we now have an intellegent coach who will have JJ playing to his strengths and utilizing our talented young guards. Oh and TRADE MIKE BIBBY.
No Longer A Hawks Fan1
July 1st, 2010
7:15 am
This is why the Hawks will never be anything more than a second tier “wannne be”. Joe is nice enough, but in no way does he exhibited the skills, desire or leadership to be a max player! Not hatin’, just telling the truth.
Hmmm
July 1st, 2010
7:16 am
Basketball is a team sport but we had a coach that had them playing as individuals. He is gone now. Cheer up.
NCBravesFan
July 1st, 2010
7:21 am
Interesting take by most of the posters. They jump to the conclusion that because Joe is being maxed out, it means the Hawks are done with the roster changes and we’ll take the same basic team to battle next season.
The move to sign Joe immediately suggests to me that the Hawks are going to trade somebody (or some bodies) off the front line to get a big and maybe a PG.
Don’t view the attempt to re-sign Joe as the end – it’s the beginning of what could be a dramatic offseason.
Hmmm
July 1st, 2010
7:23 am
NCBravesFan,
Thanke you for your common sense. TRADE MIKE BIBBY AND MO EVANS!
O'Brien
July 1st, 2010
7:26 am
Najeh,
I posted the same comment earlier on, that by the time JJ gets to year 4 of his six year deal, ASG might not even own the team.
What fans need to realize is even if we trade JJ for LeBron, that doesn’t guarantee a championship. LeBron has been in Cleveland 7 years. They went to one NBA finals and got swept by a team with Tim Duncan, Parker, and Ginobli. Boston won because of the big 3, Kobe couldn’t win until he got Gasol.
The point is, you need more than one star to win a title. So just trading JJ for another star will not get it done. Let’s keep JJ, and then find some other pieces to bring in. Trade Jamal if we have to, trade Bibby, Mo Evans, Marvin Williams…as NCBravesFan said, the offseason is just beginning. Lets give Rick Sund a chance to see what other moves he makes.
Melvin
July 1st, 2010
7:27 am
Oh well, we can forget about Haywood. Maybe the Hawks are interested in J O’Neal….
“Dallas Mavericks free agent center Brendan Haywood has meetings scheduled in Charlotte, N.C., with the Mavericks, Cavaliers and Heat on Thursday, a league source said. The Denver Nuggets, Knicks, Bulls and Raptors also have interest, the source said. Yahoo! Sports”
Salinsa
July 1st, 2010
7:34 am
This is such a short sighted move that it is utterly frustrating. JJ is not a max player. What has he exhibited in the playoffs, when it really matters in the NBA, that he’s worthy of amax contract? And that was when he was in his late 20s. He’s gonna be making $20 million a year at te age if 33 and he’s not gonna be a better player than he is now. If the Hawks sign him to this deal, it’ll be obvious that some GMs are playing checkers while the good ones are playing chess
Hawks for Sale
July 1st, 2010
7:39 am
It’s clear now. The ASG see’s the writing on the wall. They know that they cannot be profitable in their ownership. The ONLY way that they can turn this sows ear into a silk purse is to sell the team within ONE OR TWO YEARS.
Now do you want to sell a team WITH JJ or without JJ. Obviously with JJ. Anyone who can afford to buy this franchise won’t care about picking up the last 3-4 years on JJ’s contract.
The idea is to increase the value of the franchise NOW and sell. They are not worried about later.
Mark my words. The Hawks will have new owners within 2 years.
nes
July 1st, 2010
7:39 am
Just great Hawks, first you go the cheap route for a head coach and then throw away money on a second tier player J. Johnson who isn’t–i repeat isn’t worth a max contract period! just look around at the top four free agents and then read all sports sites telling which ones are worth the money. Heck, only a couple of teams even interested in J.J. and not for no max contract either! Hawks will never fly to a championship with these stupid moves, they really and truly need to sell the team to a competent owner and not to another group like the ASG–what a joke and it is on us Hawks fans too, kinda like the stimulus, where the taxpayers get it, except now it is the hawks doing it. just my humble opinion and i won’t be watching them next year!
Salinsa
July 1st, 2010
7:47 am
A good option would be a sign and trade for Caron Butler in Dallas. The salaries line up plus Caron is a similar player to JJ and he’s heading into the last year of his deal. Let’s face it, JJ isn’t leading us to a championship, so there’s no point in risking the future cap flexibility for a player who won’t provide any short term greatness. I really hope this max offer to Joe isn’t true. I’d feel a lot better about this report if Stephen A Smith was reporting it because I’d know it would be baseless speculation
Grandad
July 1st, 2010
7:49 am
Hawks for Sale:
One of the NBA.com guys tweeted that very thing last eve.
HAWK #10
July 1st, 2010
7:50 am
LET JOE GO !!!!!!!!!!! He isnt worth that kinda money at all !!! Chris Bosh Yes.. D WADE yes ! L.James YES! NOT JOE !!!! I would give a GOAT that money and let him eat it, before I gave JOE that much money ! Lets come back down to earth Hawks management !!!!
Ken Strickland
July 1st, 2010
7:56 am
For all of those who think CAnthony is the answer for the Hawks, just answer this question. HOW FAR HAS HE TAKEN A DENVER TEAM THAT HAS HAD 3 OTHER ALL STAR PLAYERS, STARTING WITH CBILLUPS, A CHAMPIONSHIP WINNING PG, AND ONE OF THE NBA’S BEST ALL AROUND PG’S. HE ALSO HAD AIVERSON, A SCORING MACHINE THAT AVERAGED 26.4PPG AND 7.1APG, AND MCAMBY, WHO LED THE NBA IN REBOUNDING, BLOCKED SHOTS, AND WAS THE NBA DEF PLAYER OF THE YR, ON THE SAME TEAM?
Camelo is an OFF player and not much else. JJ is an all around player that does most things very well on both ends of the court. Even with a premier shot blocker, CAnthony’s DEF liabilities couldn’t be masked. Anyone that watched the Hawks last yr should be able to recognize that even though we had some OFF issues, but we still managed to tie the Lakers in PPG and PPG allowed. DEF was our biggest problem, particularly at PG, and CAnthony definitely won’t resolve those issues, not in this lifetime.
Joey
July 1st, 2010
8:04 am
I’d take JJ Reddick over Joe any day…
Chip
July 1st, 2010
8:13 am
This once again reinforcemes the fact that the owners should sell and let someone who has a clue take over. We spend a TON of money on mediocre players… at best. Lets clean house starting with Zaza, Bibby and Josh Smith. We need to sign a big man first… just my opinion.
Jim
July 1st, 2010
8:16 am
This is what pi$$3s me off about the Hawks. Cleveland lands Byron Scott as coach and Atlanta lands Larry Who? Now you want to pay Joe Johnson all this money when you have 2 other Joe Johnson’s already on the team, Crawford and Crawford. And worse yet, they still trot out Marvin Williams in the front court when Stoudamire, Boozer and Bosh are available. This organization will never win anything with that kind of decision making. I really hate I renewed my season tickets, but this will be the last year I do that.
Justafan
July 1st, 2010
8:16 am
What a joke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HawksMagic
July 1st, 2010
8:19 am
What a bad bad screw up the atlanta hawks are making in signing joe johnson back. He is a player you give the ball to and he stands there for the whole shot clock and dribbles, does not pass the ball and winds up shooting a jumpshot. This team has no clue on how to run a offence, it’s all one on one. Get a clue atlanta.
HawksMagic
July 1st, 2010
8:21 am
Ok in order on what the hawks need first….#1 a big man…..#2 a big man & #3 a big man….duh!!!!!!
HawksMagic
July 1st, 2010
8:22 am
But if the hawks coaches and owners read these posts, they would be telling us we dont know more then thy do about this whole situation. But the fact of the matter is, the hawks are going in the wrong direction and i would tell them to there face they suck.
lets go!!
July 1st, 2010
8:24 am
IM RICH B*TCH” ((( RICH JAMES VOICE ))) LOL!!! THATS WHAT JO JO WILL BE SCREAMING AT YALL LMAO!!!!
dstdeelite
July 1st, 2010
8:30 am
Maybe Joe will save us from ourselves by saying, “Screw, Atl!”
Boneyard Randy
July 1st, 2010
8:32 am
I just hope coach teaches a half court offense. Move off the ball!
Westurd
July 1st, 2010
8:34 am
who say’s he’ll take the money……….and if he does are we sure its not part of a sign and trade? patience friends, patience
lets go!!
July 1st, 2010
8:42 am
YALL ARE BUNCH OF HATERS, JJ NEVER WAS A BALL HOG, AND NEVER WAS ALWAYS SHOOTING, THE TRUTH IS HE DIDNT SHOOT ENUFF, AND HOW IS THIS MAN A BALL HOG, AND HE LEAD THE TEAM IN ASSIST, I DONT KNO WHAT BASKETBALL YALL BE WATCHIN, YALL ACT LIKE HE CAN WIN IT BY HIS SELF, ITS NOT ON HIM, U CANT HATE THE MAN CAUSE HE GETTING PAID TO PLAY BASKETBALLM AT THE END OF THE DAY A CHAMPIONSHIP IS NOT GONNA PAY UR MORGAGE, LOOK AT THE TEAM INSTEAD OF TRYING TO BASH HIM, HE DID EVRYTHING HE SUPPOSE TO DO, AND THATS HELPED ATLANTA GET BETTER THESE LAST PAST 5YRS, AND THE ONLY PLAYOFF HE DID SHO UP WAS THIS LAST ONE, IF IT WASNT FOR HIM IN GAME 6 AGAINST BOSTON THERE WOULD HAV BEE A GAME 7, AND THE TEAM DIDNT SHOW UP IN GAME 7, BUT JOE DID, AND THE SECOND YR HE PLAYED ON INJURY FROM HIS ANKLE AND THIS PAST PLAYOFF HE PLAYED ON INJURY FROM HIS THUMB, AND WHEN HE WAS OUT WITH THE THUMB INJURY, THE HAWKS COULDNT FIND A WIN, WHEN HE CAME BACK THE WON, I DONT BLAME HIM FOR TALKING ABOUT YALL STUPID ASS FANS, CAUSE YALL FAIR WELL FANS ANYWAY, YALL DONT SUPPORT , BUT TALK BAD, YALL WASNT TALKING THIS BAD WHEN YALL COULD WIN 15 GAMES, AND YALL MUST BE A BUNCH OF KIDS BLOGGIN, WELL I MEAN NERDS, THAT NEVER COULD PLAY ANY TYPE OF SPORTS LOL!!!!! LETS GO JO JO YOU RICH NOW HAHAHAAHHAHAAHA!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKx4wp59mAs
Just-A-Thougth
July 1st, 2010
8:43 am
The ASG has really screwed themselves with this JJ situation, they paid too much on the front end to get him from PHX, and now there hands are tied on the back end of this situation and it’s too much. Maybe this is what that clown owner (I can’t think of his name) was trying to get them to see.
lets go!!
July 1st, 2010
8:44 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKx4wp59mAs
lets go!!
July 1st, 2010
8:45 am
DEY HATED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKx4wp59mAs
dap01
July 1st, 2010
8:47 am
I am leary about the big money but if we are stuck with JJ, that is a very good problem to have.
So the question now is what to do with the rest of the roster in order to get a more complete and balanced team?
Trade Crawford?
Trade Josh Smith?
Trade Mo?
Trade Bibby, Paculia?
Sign Childress?
What center could we get? Heyward is getting out of reach.
What other pieces to we need?
Glenn
July 1st, 2010
8:47 am
He will sign & I bet we trade him . JJ will still get his 6th year . Win -win .
lets go!!
July 1st, 2010
8:49 am
J-J-J-J-J-J-J-J-J-J-J-J-JOOOOOOOE JOHNSON >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYf1wnbdTrM
i_am_soulstar
July 1st, 2010
8:50 am
Surely we can do better than Javale McGee.
Zaza Pachulia: 4.3 PPG 3.8 RPG in 14 minutes
Javale McGee 2009-2010: 6.5 PPG 4.0 RPG in 16 minutes
Slightly better than Zaza, but I don’t think this is what Horford meant when he asked for help down low.
formerfan
July 1st, 2010
8:53 am
Perfect. The Hawks won’t spend when you want them to and mortgage the franchise for six years when you don’t want them to. We have a good young core of players. Now is the worst time to pay an undeserving player the max. I wonder how paying a player who is not even one of the top 20 players in the NBA $119 million over six years is going to work out for our cash strapped joke of an ownership group? Not so good my friends. Not so good.
BYC
July 1st, 2010
8:58 am
Logic has gone out the window- a notoriously cheap ownership group offers its overrated choker shooting guard, who has already alienated all their fans, a MAX CONTRACT?!?!?!
lets go!!
July 1st, 2010
8:58 am
Undisputed Champ!
A most excellent post! could not agree more. Can you imagine what Joe could do with an inside offensive weapon like Amare? Or power at the rack like Brandon Heywood? Get Joe the complimentary pieces and stop running this game with a power forward pretending to be a center and we will not only match but better last years record.- Go Hawks. <<<<< THATS REAL TALK, AND IM NOT FROM ATLANTA, IF I TOLD YALL WHERE I WAS FROM YALL WOULD TRIP OUT, BUT, THEY DONT UNDERSTAND JOE WILL BE BETTER AS HE GET OLDER, U NEVER SEE THIS DUDE BEING FLASHY OR DUNKING, THATS ALL PEOPLE LOOKING AT, THATS WHY THEY SAY HES NOT WORTH THE TYPE OF MONEY, U SEE WHY WADE STAY HURT, CAUSE HE TRYS TO DO EVERY MJ MOVE AND END UP BREAKING SUMTIN, JOE GOT ALL AROUND GAME THATS WHY OTHER TEAMES WANT HIM, AND HES NOT GETTING TRADED DUMMYS, ITS HIS CALL
Barton
July 1st, 2010
8:58 am
@ Ken Strickland – we weren’t complaining because it was the end of his contract and we weren’t complaining until he went cold in the playoffs again and then flipped us (the fans) a verbal middle finger. Joe Johnson is not a complete player he can’t even dunk a basketball (go and check his dunk stats). Joe is just a big soft sissy boy. Again, and you are a moron for only focusing on the first year of his contract. If the ASG thinks they are committed to giving Joe Johnson this max contract and he doesn’t pan out for us next season and shows again that he is not a max contract worthy superstar – WHO DO YOU THINK WILL TAKE ON HIS CONTRACT. Moron. Think about what you say.
D21
July 1st, 2010
8:59 am
Thinking of Joe at this money is just the product of having no PG for years and Woody letting him do what he wants.
There is a lot of players, including Salmons that would have given almost the same numbers in the same role.
You ASG, you want to give him 120M ? then assume your move, and then spend to make this team win like you said.
Match the Childress offer and find a sign-&-trade, use the full MLE on Brad Miller or Haywood,… don’t let one advantage walk away for nothing.
It will cost you a lot, because of your mistake with Joe, but you will not make fans frustrated as much than what you’re doing right now.
You don’t want to win by spending cash ? Then don’t spend at all, certainly not like that.
And Sund saying that he wants to build a team like DET…
what a joke. Where did he see that the winning DET team have a guy at 20M or more.
It was a team with shared salaries, even underpaid, and when extensions came, it was not for 20M.
Please, you can’t be so much stupid ?
I could be wrong, but I start to think that no team would give him Max, it’s all agent work.
He wants to play with NYK (and not so sure actually) CHI or ATL.
CHI has only one Max to offer with cap room, and NYK two, but want 3 good players. I don’t think that James or Bosh will take 11.5M, they will want Max, and let NYK work on trade on wait next year with Curry off the books.
So the two Max of NYK are set on other people than Joe, he’s only the 3rd guy in any scenario for NYK.
Result: if he wants Max in another team, it will need a sign-&-trade.
They are not wanting him as fist option, don’t let them fool you ASG !!!
He will kill the team with this money.
If they really do that, they are the best incompetent people you can find to manage a team.
nobody
July 1st, 2010
9:01 am
Great Point Najeh. I think that Facial Fracture in Pheonix really hurt Joe. He used to dunk and be more agressive. I dont know if I saw him dunk once last year, not saying I care about dunks but he isnt agressive to the hole and doesnt get many FT’s which is a must for a max player. Maybe if we have a max player though Stern will finally cut us some slack and tell the refs to be fair
lets go!!
July 1st, 2010
9:03 am
THIS FOR YALL FAKE A** HAWKS FANS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLhZ52vVK-I B.o.B – Haterz Everywhere [Feat. Rich Boy] (video)
nobody
July 1st, 2010
9:06 am
Undisputed Champ: Anyone that we need to trade Horford doesnt know what they are talking about. This was what his third year? and he averaged 15 points and 10 rebounds. Thats pretty damn good. Im tired of people writing him off because he cant defend Howard. NO ONE CAN DEFEND HOWARD. Thats what happens when you are the best at your position, you cant be defended. And dont give me career number bullcrap for horford. This is his third year, of course his scoring average wont be incredibly high. He nearly won ROY, He averaged 10 rebounds last year, and is a vocal leader. But yeah lets trade him…..
lets go!!
July 1st, 2010
9:08 am
THIS DUDE SAID CAUSE HE DONT DUNK HE’S A SISSY LMAO, THATS WHY HES NOT WORTH MAX, MAN GET OUT OF HERE, LIKE I SAID I MUST BE A BUNCH OF KID ON HERE, THATS STUPID AS HELL TO SAY “DUNKING” OL MY LOL!!!
D21
July 1st, 2010
9:08 am
@let’s go:
if your goal is to see Joe getting lots of money, then be happy, but majority of people think that 15M is already a lot, and that team winning is more important than more money to one player.
If you don’t understand that, I can’t do anything to help you… or are you Joe Johnson ?
People here doesn’t hate Joe Johnson like you said, but they hate Joe Johnson at 120M, killing the team possibilities to improve.
Are just dumb enough to understand that ? It’s hate or not a player, it’s something between the two, with some sense.
i_am_soulstar
July 1st, 2010
9:11 am
Folks, you don’t trade an all-star still on his rookie contract.
Kapoonka
July 1st, 2010
9:11 am
Man this is tough! I like JJ, but not for 119M…no way. At best he is a Pippen to a Jordan we don’t have. His defense is really suspect or absent at times. His quiet demeanor means you don’t hear anything bad about him off court which is good. I think he’s a good guy. New York would eat him alive. Miami would work for him as well as Chicago. No one knows anything about his personal life, and he maintains that secretive demeanor on the court where we need a VOCAL EMOTIONAL LEADER with the heart of a giant!!!! That ain’t Joe’s style and never will be. If he accepts, and I think he would be crazy not to, we will suck big time in 2 years. He’s definitely not 30+ million better than Smoove. Would giving him a max contract cause animosity on the team…hmmmmm? I think Teague is ready if he is given the chance…save the money and do something else. That’s it from Kapoonka….
i_am_soulstar
July 1st, 2010
9:12 am
He’s your best bargain on the team, it just doesn’t make sense financially.
nobody
July 1st, 2010
9:13 am
I remember a few years back when Amare wanted to be traded the Hawks were on the radar for the suns. I believe with Josh Smith. But Amare said he wouldnt play for us. But now u think he will? Besides Horford is an all around player, not just an offensive guy. Plus he is in his third year and improving. I bet when Howard was 21 yall would have said to trade him for someone else….
nobody
July 1st, 2010
9:14 am
Thank you i_am_soulstar.
Barton
July 1st, 2010
9:15 am
@ Let’s Go – I have a riddle for you.. If you have the ball all of the time what are you? A “ball hog.” IF you have the ball all of the time what can you lead your team in? Scoring AND Assists. Thanks for playing.
nobody
July 1st, 2010
9:16 am
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Asb7OnqFAp4ULdcPTvDd9205nYcB?slug=ys-freeagentbuzz063010
Joe expected to accept our offer. Meeting with Dallas and Houston later for S&T possiblities