Atlanta Hawks: J.J. to Mavs, Knicks, Bulls, Rockets . . . or Hawks?
Is there cash in that boot?
Another day, another Joe Johnson rumor.
This time it’s Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! Sports reporting that the Mavericks are interested in acquiring J.J. They are over the salary cap, so the only way to do that would be through a sign-and-trade agreement. That means J.J. would have to want to play for the Mavs and Dallas and Atlanta would have to come to an agreement on a trade.
The key line in Wojnarowski’s story is this: “Johnson is determined to get the sixth guaranteed season on a contract that could only come with re-signing in Atlanta or a sign-and-trade arrangement, sources say.” This is along the lines of what I’ve been saying all along, that guys just don’t leave $25-$30 million on the table. The signals being sent out by J.J,’s camp are clear: If Atlanta offers the most cash, Johnson will re-sign. If not, he will look elsewhere. What’s not clear is if the Hawks are willing to pay J.J. the max if that’s what it takes to keep him.
The thing to remember when all of these stories leak (in addition to the fact that leakers always have an agenda) is that no one knows for sure what J.J. is going to do. Last week the word was J.J. was ready to make an early commitment to Chicago. Then he was willing to take less cash to play for the Knicks. Now the latest is that he really wants a sign-and-trade, and perhaps he will look at Dallas (or Houston, as an enticement for Bosh to also sign there).
The AJC’s Mark Bradley asks if Atlanta wants J.J. back and that’s a good question. He mentions how the city of Cleveland has pretty much begged LeBron to come back. Bradley is talking about the fans, but it also seems the Hawks organization has been relatively subdued in its public recruitment of J.J. as compared to the teams of other top free agents.
In Miami, for instance, the Heat have gone all out to show the love for D-Wade. There’s been no reason to guess if the Heat wants D-Wade and if they will pay the max to make it happen. You can say that’s because it’s a no-brainer for Miami to pay D-Wade the max, and you would be correct. However, the Heat also went crazy for Udonis Haslem, who is a good player but not a star.
Hawks management, meanwhile, has been pretty quiet in regards to J.J. Soon after the season ended GM Rick Sund said the Hawks will do all they can to re-sign J.J. and has repeated that statement a couple times. But that’s been about it as far as public pleadings for J.J. by Atlanta’s brass. That hasn’t changed even as all these stories surface suggesting that other teams are ready to make aggressive pushes for J.J.
Anyway, we will soon see how it all plays out. I’m sticking with my belief that J.J. will re-sign with the Hawks if they offer the most money. They are still in control of this process.
MC
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278 comments Add your comment
tyger
June 28th, 2010
5:34 pm
1. Shaq or Brendan Haywood or bust! It’ll take a vice grip to pry Haywood loose…
2. Dampier’s salary is great in monopoly, but we’re still trying to win basketball games.
3. Is Bibby/JJ a package deal? If so, pull trigger…toss in Mo Evans for future non-consideration…
4. Jordan Crawford is going to be a beast!!!
5. Let JJ walk, get Shaq, bring back Chills and we’re good.
wcj
June 28th, 2010
5:34 pm
Stephen A. Smith says Miami will sign Chris Bosh, Lebron James and D-Wade, if thats the case signing Joe Johnson won’t matter.
Michael Cunningham
June 28th, 2010
5:35 pm
@GeeMack: “MC under the current cap structure could the Hawks resign JJ and sign and trade for a player like Amare using players like J-smoove (youth) and Jamal Crawford (expiring contract)as trade bait?”
sure, but just remember for a sign-and-trade a) b) the free agent player (Amare in this case) has to want to make the move and b) the salaries have to match if the team trading the player is over the cap (Suns in this case).
Michael Cunningham
June 28th, 2010
5:40 pm
@cp: “I dont know if the Dallas rumor has any truth to it but at this point it cant be no worse than the ones ESPN keeps throwing out there. At this point it seems as if ESPN is just making up stuff just to get people to talk. ESPN has become a big joke.”
ESPN actually has some very good reporters. the problem is they have too many people reporting on too many platforms, from ESPN to ESPN.com to their radio affiliates and now their local Web sites. with all of that, it is inevitable that they will have contradictory, confusing information coming out. one of those versions of the story will turn out to be true, and then when the story is resolved they will put the guy who ended up right in front of the camera.
JSS
June 28th, 2010
5:42 pm
Oh my gracious, rational people and a rational moderator on a AJC internet blog. thank goodness! If I ever get the desire to blog on that infantile Falcons Beat blog again, please take me to Switzerland and throw me off the Alps!
Michael Cunningham
June 28th, 2010
5:42 pm
@KevinM: “Okay, someone tell me where Joe has stated he wants to come back. Someone tell me where it says Chills wants to come back.”
the closest Joe has come to saying this is he would “love to” return to Atlanta, but who knows what will happen. i think that was during All-Star weekend. Chills has never said he wants to come back but he is talking to the Hawks.
GeeMack
June 28th, 2010
5:43 pm
bigdave
Most of the time Stephen A is on target, when it comes to free agent news. However he gave himself an out clause with the “Lebron has the right to change his mind next week” line.
These guys understand their legacy as players will be based on how many rings they win. Instead of putting your career in the hands of some GM. They have choosen to chart their own course.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 28th, 2010
5:43 pm
If Joe decides Dallas is the place he wants to be, Caron Butler and Erick Dampier would be a pretty good consolation prize to receive in return. Get them to throw in a draft pick and it would get even better. I do think even if Joe goes to an under-the-cap team, he will prefer to get sign-and-traded because of the extra $27 million, but from the Hawks’ point of view, Joe deciding to go to an over-the-cap team like Dallas or Houston is a good scenario because it ensures the Hawks can get something in return.
People have mentioned getting back Brendan Haywood in a sign-and-trade, but here’s why I think Dampier could be a better acquisition. First of all, you gotta understand that for all his flaws, Joe Johnson is better than anyone the Hawks will receive in return for him. Period. If he leaves, the Hawks are not winning 53 games or making the second round next year. Caron Butler is a good player but he’s not going to replace Joe. So if Joe leaves, the mindset has to shift to rebuilding/retooling as opposed to tweaking the current roster. Bringing in Haywood makes sense if Joe stays, since he would fill a need on this team and help it improve from its current 53 win total, but if Joe leaves, Haywood would just be taking up cap space on a team that won’t be a serious contender.
Between Dampier, Butler, and Jamal Crawford, the Hawks would have $33 million in expiring contracts — not to mention a pretty decent collection of talent — they could move to a cash-strapped team for other assets. And at this point, I have to bring up the somewhat-less-far-fetched-than-it-used-to-be trade possibility of offering these contracts, along with a pick or two, to New Orleans for Chris Paul and Emeka Okafor’s horrendous contract. This has to be the Hawks’ general mindset if Joe leaves — acquire expiring deals that you can either allow to expire and make a run at a free agent in 2011 (although that free agent class is quite weak after Carmelo Anthony), trade for another star like Paul, or trade for a collection of draft picks (although at least one of them would have to be a lottery pick for it to be worth it).
Michael Cunningham
June 28th, 2010
5:44 pm
@Steve: “Can we sign Joe for six years, but not at the max.?”
yes. they could start the first-year salary at less than Joe’s max (expected to be about $16 million) and/or make the yearly raises less than the max possible of 10.5 percent.
Michael Cunningham
June 28th, 2010
5:47 pm
@bigdave: “pleased with your level headiness MC, @ the end of the day.. money does talk.”
sometimes i think maybe i’m too cynical, but i think this is just reality, especially for a player like Joe who only has one more big contract. and i don’t mean that as a criticism of Joe or any player in his position. they should take advantage of their right to get the most money they can on the market.
i_am_soulstar
June 28th, 2010
5:52 pm
According to this link…
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Suicide-lines-Miller-on-the-move-Too-many-fre?urn=nba,251862
the Hawks will be in L.A. on Thursday morning to offer Joe the max (6 years, 125 million)..
Oh boy..
UGA
June 28th, 2010
5:53 pm
PLAN B?
If we strike out on Joe, what is Plan B?
Childress?
Are we interested in Salmons?
Najeh Davenpoop
June 28th, 2010
5:53 pm
If Dallas throws in Beaubois in a sign-and-trade, that would be fantastic, since Beaubois is a very good young player who can push Jeff Teague and Jordan Crawford for playing time, but the Mavs would be left with nobody who can guard opposing point guards if this happens. Seeing as how the Mavs are trying to win now, with their window of opportunity closing, I don’t see them trading Beaubois unless they are really confident they can sign a free agent PG who can defend like him.
JSS
June 28th, 2010
5:56 pm
@ Michael Cunningham…
That is what happens (ESPN) when you have conflict of interest in almost everything they do… Hey, If I could personally take ESPN out of my Disney profit sharing mutual fund I would…
Patrick
June 28th, 2010
6:00 pm
Someone said that JJ would net the Hawks Yao Ming. That is not happening just so you know…
bigdave
June 28th, 2010
6:02 pm
Mack..
too much of a circus act for me.. runs his mouth about things he can provide evidence to support as if his take is scripture.. his comments about black athletes during the time Rush was trying to buy the Rams did it for me.. but if you say he’s on when it comes to FA ill take your word for it..
GeeMack
June 28th, 2010
6:09 pm
Najeh Davenpoop
Retool/Rebuild after only 2 winning seasons? JJ is a keeper. Use some of the expiring contract & youth to get another FA to come a play with JJ. Convince JJ you want to win now. This a huge FA class that with the right moves could put the Hawks over the hump.
N-Trigue
June 28th, 2010
6:10 pm
We need to go after Tyson Chandler for center and SF/PF positions Travis Outlaw. And if Joe leaves we gotta get Rudy Gaye no one else out of the pool of players we can afford will make us better! With these players we can compete on a championship level! MC have you heard any info on the summer league roster yet? Thanks
GeeMack
June 28th, 2010
6:11 pm
bigdave
“Circus ac”? Lol. I agree.
Simpdawg
June 28th, 2010
6:30 pm
Truthspitter,
I agree with you 100%. The Hawks should have drafted Hassan Whiteside at #31. He could have backed up Josh Smith until he became strong enough to play center. At worst he would have strengthen the Hawks bench. Last I checked Dwight Howard is still playing in Orlando.
O'Brien
June 28th, 2010
6:40 pm
MC,
If JJ leaves in a sign and trade to a team over the cap, how much salary can we take back? Does it fall under BYC status? Or do the salaries have to be within 125% + $100k?
AG
June 28th, 2010
6:43 pm
I think Joe would be an asset in Atlanta the first three years but he will be looking similar to Ray Allen at the end of his contract….avg about 15 ppg at 35 making 25 mil
i_am_soulstar
June 28th, 2010
6:49 pm
Any GM with half of brain won’t sign Tyson Chandler without a physical. I understand he’s supposed to be back to his old self now after 2 injury-marred seasons, but I’ve heard T-Mac use that same line a million times.
doc
June 28th, 2010
6:52 pm
MC i know you and astro have clashed occasionally but he came up with the golden comment to describe all strategies with the hawks ….FOLLOW THE MONEY! see you agree, cynicism aside. maybe you are both cynics. heh heh
i_am_soulstar
June 28th, 2010
6:56 pm
The thing that we complain about the most with Joe’s game is the exact thing that’ll likely keep him from having such a major drop-off in production down the line: athleticism.
His game doesn’t involve a whole lot of it, as he’s more of a finesse guy (Jumpshots and floaters don’t involve a lot of athleticism).
So although the guy turns 29 tomorrow (Happy Early Birthday JJ). he’ll be less affected by age at the end of his contract than a player like Dwayne Wade who uses a tremendous amount of athleticism.
Steve
June 28th, 2010
6:57 pm
Well, I won’t be mad if the Hawks do sign JJ for the max, even though I don’t think he’s worth it. And about that #31 pick, we’ll have to wait and see if the Hawks truly do get a quality big man with the 3 mill. they made on the draft.
Sautee
June 28th, 2010
7:08 pm
Truth-serum,
In the last blog, you said this about Horford:
“Hes playing the best he can, which aint bad. But hes just about scoring as high as he can score. Hes not a Dirk with shooting or a strong slasher like Josh. What he does is work hard every night as a blue collar working who doesnt have the skills as much as he has the work ethics. Having said that, he is about as good as he gets. The upside is he will barring injury be able to be a hard worker for a long time.”
T-s, I’m glad to see you saying positive things about Al. Much better than denigrating his name.
I’m also delighted to see that you agree with me about his perennial All-Star status. Heh heh.
I mean if he’s as good as he’s gonna get (at 24? yeah, right, lol) and he’s ALREADY an All-Star, then I guess by your own standard (good as he’ll get) he’ll be a perennial All-Star.
Thanks for that frank admission.
drmaryb
June 28th, 2010
7:14 pm
Doc
Hey check out this link in regards to CP3 and his knee injury. It pretty much said exactly what you recommended for this young man, regarding a Micro-Fracture procedure for him and his future.
let me know what you think?
http://richiez23.wordpress.com/2010/02/26/knee-issues-could-potentially-hinder-nba-future-of-all-star-paul/
Luke Cage
June 28th, 2010
7:38 pm
Whats wrong with giving Joe a max deal, hell it ain’t coming out of our pockets, lol
doc
June 28th, 2010
7:43 pm
dmb:
“The six-foot Paul of the New Orleans Hornets is expected to miss 6-8 weeks after his Feb. 4 successful arthroscopic surgery on his left knee by the infamous Dr. James Andrews. However Andrews removed the torn meniscus, he did not repair it. This is not as serious as the dreaded micro-fracture surgery, but there is a possibility that this could lead to more knee surgery just a few years down the road.”
ultimately, it depends on the language of what a “removal” is. is it the whole or a fragment that is torn and how extensive the tear was to what amount of meniscus was involved? it also doesnt mean both the lateral and medial segments were involved and removed. i am sure andrews did the right thing. of note cp3 didnt come back at the end of the season to err on the caution side indicating more severe injury or conservative care. we dont know the story.
my guess is he tries it out and if he has troubles then he goes for the micro-fracture surgery earlier rather than later. he is smaller than most guys so that will help him, even if he loses some lift he should keep his quickness, i hope. the current care of these injuries cant be compared to penny, sayers or others of past eras as the surgery is different and more sophisticated. you canrt compare that anymore than suggesting the acl injury that ended pistol pete’s career would have the same devastating effects in a player of this era. we know how that surgery has saved career after career . honestly on the day of sayers, the surgery was brutal.
Will
June 28th, 2010
7:53 pm
I sure will be glad when all this BS is over. Don’t really care if Joe signs, resigns, gets traded etc. Just waiting for the day when it will be settled one way or the other. Believe me the world will not come to an end regardless of what JJ does or doesn’t do.,
Ken Strickland
June 28th, 2010
8:07 pm
If we offer JJ a max 6yr contract, he’ll resign. He’s not so intrigued with playing with Lebron, DWade or CBosh that he’d walk away from $30+million hard cash. If he resigns, you can look for JCrawford, MEvans and MBibby’s expiring contracts to be traded next yr, or by the trade deadline, so we can resign AHorford. If Childress isn’t resigned, he’ll have to be moved in a sign and trade, since he has a cap hold that takes up cap space. We can’t continue carrying a player that’s not contributing, and he can’t go back to Greece. He’s lost most of the leverage he had for signing a big contract.
Considering our limited cap space, he’s probably the only quality FA we can sign without using our MLE. That’s because he’s already factored into our cap, due to his cap hold.
So, I see us resigning JJ, either resigning or doing a sign and trade with Childress, then using our MLE on a big. At the end of the season, we then get rid of Crawford’s, Bibby’s and MEvans’ contracts and resign Horford.
AND PLEASE STOP ALL OF THIS SIGN RUDY GAY CRAP. He’s a restricted FA, and we don’t have the cap space to even offer him a contract, SO IT AINT GOING TO HAPPEN PEOPLE. If fact, we can’t sign any FA that wants more than our MLE.
JeJe
June 28th, 2010
8:10 pm
JOE FOR DAMPIER + BEAUBOUIS OR W/E HIS NAME IS. HE’S A STUD
JeJe
June 28th, 2010
8:11 pm
Giving Joe a max contract will set this franchise back for YEARS. If you give him 6 years, you will pay him 25M when he is 35. THAT IS ALMOST HALF OUR FREAKING PAYROLL
If you give him 6 years, you will pay him 25M when he is 35. THAT IS ALMOST HALF OUR FREAKING PAYROLL
If you give him 6 years, you will pay him 25M when he is 35. THAT IS ALMOST HALF OUR FREAKING PAYROLL
If you give him 6 years, you will pay him 25M when he is 35. THAT IS ALMOST HALF OUR FREAKING PAYROLL
If you give him 6 years, you will pay him 25M when he is 35. THAT IS ALMOST HALF OUR FREAKING PAYROLL
Mystikal
June 28th, 2010
8:26 pm
@MC, from what you know, do you think JJ is more interested in the extra year or just trying to get the most money?
I ask because we could give 6 yrs for $98 to $105 mil as opposed to the max.
drmaryb
June 28th, 2010
8:29 pm
Mr. Phil!
You need Dr. Phil! You’re the fan Joe was talking to, when he said he could care less if you Come to a game!
I agree with him! You would probably be that guy who throws his beer on him, while he is at the scorers table.
Hate, is a very strong word – do you know Mr. Johnson personally? Did he pull a Delonte
on your Mom or Sister – perhaps? You are a dangerous man who is filled with hate for a
silly old basketball player. Please don’t show up at Philips Arena, you scare me.
drmaryb
June 28th, 2010
8:30 pm
No Trespassing – Keep Out!
Mr. Phil!
You need Dr. Phil! You’re the fan Joe was talking to, when he said he could care less if you Come to a game!
I agree with him! You would probably be that guy who throws his beer on him, while he is at the scorers table.
Hate, is a very strong word – do you know Mr. Johnson personally? Did he pull a Delonte
on your Mom or Sister – perhaps? You are a dangerous man who is filled with hate for a
silly old basketball player. Please don’t show up at Philips Arena, you scare me.
Big Ray
June 28th, 2010
8:31 pm
It’s my understanding that in a sign and trade, we could only bring back salary that’s roughly half of what we’re trading away. So if we sign Joe to a 6 year contract worth $110 million, that’s about $18 million a year. Which means, we could only bring back $9 million (a year) in salary.
If you trade with Dallas under such a contract, you won’t get Caron Butler (he makes $10.5 mil a year). You end up with maybe Matt Carroll and Brendan Haywood. Maybe In fact, we might have to give over another guy to make it work, but I don’t know how all of that stuff works anyway.
I’d rather go for quality depth than just one guy, depending on who the one guy is. A better scenario involves New York, where you could come away with Toney Douglas, Wilson Chandler, and maybe Sergio Rodriguez. At least then you get some guys who can do something for you on the court, or perhaps be used as trade chips.
Big Ray
June 28th, 2010
8:35 pm
If the issues in the locker room are as serious as some people think they are, then how does an extra year and another $27 million in cash solve that, much less make us a better team?
Signing Joe to a max contract (and keeping him) implies that the issue isn’t in the locker room, but on the sideline, in a way. Question is, how then do you round out the roster? Status quo doesn’t cut it.
Mystikal
June 28th, 2010
8:36 pm
What ever happens, just want to point out that free agency in 2011 and 2012 really sucks!!!!!!!!!!
dap01
June 28th, 2010
8:39 pm
Perhaps Joe only wants money and the extra year, which will make a sign and trade more likely.
drmaryb
June 28th, 2010
8:46 pm
Bees – Knees!
Doc
Thanks a Lot, I am very interested in what happens to Mr. Paul, I wish he was a Hawk, I’d
take him on crutches if we could have him here. I wasn’t sure if the lateral or medial meniscus
was removed either. The article didn’t say, I’m thinking HIPPA rules.
I do know he has had several knee injuries and am wondering if he had been cleared to
play too soon in his past injuries. I really only have time to follow the Hawks very closely.
But, love hearing all the gossip around the league as well. I follow all sports pretty closely!
From Golf to Tennis (my passion) and everything in between.
Are you ready for some Football? Oh yeah!
KevinM
June 28th, 2010
8:53 pm
I gotta say so many get offended when some of us worry how much Joe is making…well, duh! Joe is going to take up roughly 25% of the cap this year alone! Me, I don’t care how much Joe makes, and I don’t care how much he makes because I am willing to let him walk. What I don’t like is Joe being the #1 elite paid athlete here. As far as being part of a Big 3, Joe fits. But being the 1st option in the playoffs as a #1 hasn’t worked and it hasn’t been just one or two times. The same result has happened every playoff season! The early excuse was Woody put too many minutes on his body. Well, as the minutes go down each year, the same non-productivity shows.
If we sign Joe back, I think it is again a challenge to get someone in here to take on his role as #1. If Joe leaves, in my opinion,we have a better shot to form a more balanced 3 to take us further in the playoffs. I already know what Joe can do; I want to give someone else the role and let him prove himself to this team.
The max is going to be offered; my hope is that Joe signs and says he wants to be elsewhere. That is the scenario I envision.
Our team ends up better in the long run.
Zach
June 28th, 2010
8:55 pm
MC,
your dead right about the wade situations. I live in downtown miami and there is a giant sign on I95 saying “we want wade back”. I’m pretty sure there is none of that in atl.
Blast
June 28th, 2010
8:59 pm
All these reports about Joe wanting to sign with NY or Chicago or Houston? Did any of these so called reporters actually talked to Joe or his agent? I think not. ESPN is just blowing smoke and making stuff up about the Hawks like they’ve been doing for years. Anybody that believes what Steven A Smith says is a fool because he has gotten it wrong more than right most times.
That said, I like Joe, but if he does not want to be with Hawks, then we don’t want him either. If he goes to NY or Chi town with or without LeBron, that does not make those teams top contenders, anyway. You need more role/bench players to win a championship than two max players.
Folks, please stop with all these fantasy trades and live in reality.
Posts that I do not read:
If you type in caps, you can be sure that I will not read your post.
If you post under multiple names to make the same point over and over, I will not read your post.
If you draw up fantasy Hawks team based on your fantasy trade, I will not read your post, because y’all disgrunted fans trying to make your team better in fantasy land. Now, I don’t blame you for doing that, but I do not deal with fantasy. I deal with reality. None of you can create an NBA team, only Sund can, so trying to second guess him is a sheer waste of time. Why do you folks even bother? Your lives are so screwed up that you have to make up for it through Hawks blog?
Please get a life, people! Joe leaves or not, I think Hawks will be fine.
Go Dream, Go. 11-4, baby, top in the East. Methinks Hawks need to take several pages from the Atlanta Dream. Everything from coaching, offense, depth and dedication!
Chossen1
June 28th, 2010
9:22 pm
Guys tell me what you think. How about resign JJ but we front load his contract the 1st three years and the last three years it tails off. That way you get more for your buck. Also bulk up our front lines with experience and toughness by add these two player as back-up’s (J. O’neal & Kurt Thomas)and at last add a nasty defensive wing ( Matt Barnes or Radja Bell)
O'Brien
June 28th, 2010
9:25 pm
Thanks Ray. AJ said something similar on the other blog, but with some of the suggestions on here, I wanted to make sure.
I am open to Marvin and JJ to Dalls for Caron Butler and Deshawn Stephenson. I dont want Matt Carroll because he has 2 years left, and a player option for year 3. Butler and Stephenson are expiring contracts, so that could give us some more trade chips, or some expirings for next year.
JeJe
June 28th, 2010
9:27 pm
Giving Joe a max contract will set this franchise back for YEARS. If you give him 6 years, you will pay him 25M when he is 35. THAT IS ALMOST HALF OUR FREAKING PAYROLL
If you give him 6 years, you will pay him 25M when he is 35. THAT IS ALMOST HALF OUR FREAKING PAYROLL
If you give him 6 years, you will pay him 25M when he is 35. THAT IS ALMOST HALF OUR FREAKING PAYROLL
If you give him 6 years, you will pay him 25M when he is 35. THAT IS ALMOST HALF OUR FREAKING PAYROLL
If you give him 6 years, you will pay him 25M when he is 35. THAT IS ALMOST HALF OUR FREAKING PAYROLL.
JeJe
June 28th, 2010
9:30 pm
TRADE JOE FOR DAMPIER + BEAUBOIS AND THEN TRADE SMOOVE FOR AL JEFF AND THEN WE’RE TALKING.
AND U HAVENT EVEN DONE ANYTHING WITH DUCK OR MINIME YET
JeJe
June 28th, 2010
9:31 pm
MC,
Can you please explain how ASG told Sund they will go into Lux Tax if he promises to bring a winner, yet EVERY move since this statement a year ago has been a cost cutting move?