Atlanta Hawks: What’s the deal with Chills?

MC, I hope you wrong. I would love to see Chills back on this team. Hopefully we can tell Mo to find a new jersey number (or home) b/c the real #1 is coming back.

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I want Chillz back and back as a Starter.. Sit Marvin down and let him come off the bench..
Damn I wish we had different ownership..

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Melvin,

I would too, but like Schultz says, where does he fit in? If JJ is gone, he fits. If we trade Marv or move him to the bench, he fits. If Jamal gets traded, he fits.

Otherwise, he’s looking at coming back to two of the same things he left in the first place: money and playing time. I’d like to see him back, but first and foremost in my mind is asset management. Better to sign and trade him than continue to get nothing out of what was once a lottery pick.

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RomeDawg,

What are you talking about? Chills was picked #6 in the draft, so it’s not like a whole ton of teams passed on him. He was used primarily as a bench player by Woody, which explains him not starting (especially since they drafted Marvin at #2, and as a starer). As for consistency, he was one of the FEW consistent players. Consistently didn’t get plays run for him, yet led the team in field goal percentage at a career .522 rate. Consistently got rebounds, as many as Marvin who was the starter (and more, sometimes), hustled and played defense, brought the ball up the court. Hell, the guy was the very model of consistency. What team were you watching?

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I feel a sign & trade coming on!

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I am not defending our questionable ownership but I don’t like egomaniac athletes who have lost perception of reality.

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I hope Sund is willing to play hardball and risk paying him to make sure we don’t get nothing for him. With our limited resources to sign players under the cap, Chills could be a valuable piece on our roster or as a sign and trade. I’d hate to see the Hawks just let him walk when we can use him to improve the team.

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I am not defending our questionable ownership but I don’t like egomaniac athletes who have lost perception of reality.

Blame his agent and the Greek team. No way was Chills getting that kind of money in the NBA. The other thing is, he did more for us than Marvin did, at the time.

Now I’ll say this and let it go: I still don’t see him in a Hawks uniform, and I still see him as a valuable role player, if he can do anything like he did for us when he was in the League. Is he the best option out there? No, not in my opinion.

I’d take Ronnie Brewer in a hot second…

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Big Ray, if Chills comes back, I don’t see how Marvin remains the starter unless Drew really believes his offensive schemes can make Marvin effective. Chill actually grew and became a pretty good player for the Hawks. Marvin has regressed. I think if you have the option to bring Childress back, especially for not much money, you have to put Marvin on the bench and tell him that if he wants to start, he’ll have to earn that role back. That may not be what you want to do with a guy who you owe $30M over the next four years, but it’s a better choice than just letting Chills walk and Marvin continue to drag this team down.

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MC ,

You’re right. With wings available everywhere (I hear Mike Miller wants to sign on with a winning team), Mo could be dealt.

If we end up selling our pick off (I still don’t know how valid that conspiracy theory is), then I’d like us to take a look at Ronnie Brewer (defender who knows when to shoot, and when not to for the most part) and Anthony Morrow (straight up sniper).

Chills…I liked the guy when he was here, but if he’s not the same player, then I’m not sold on the headache he could become.

Evans…liked what he provided when he could get it going. But he’s undersized at the 3, and replaceable at the 2, where again…with Joe and Jamal around….he will hardly get any minutes whatsoever. Especially since I expect Larry Drew to keep actual point guards playing the point guard position (not Jamal).

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Bring back Childress. 3yrs $18M sounds about right. Trade Jamal Crawford for immediate cap relief and depth (similar to Philly did with Dalembert’s expiring).

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GT Alum,

I agree. Marvin has been an incumbent starter without challenge, and that has got to change. If not Chills, we need to bring somebody else in to challenge him or permanently send him to the bench. I wish I knew what Drew thought Marvin is capable of at this point. Some argued that Woody and his system hurt Marvin, as did the advent of Jamal Crawford.

However, that isn’t the whole story by a long shot, in my opinion. The thing about Woody is that he favord the aggressive types, and Marvin just wasn’t that. The problem is that he wasn’t that on either end of the floor. Although we have some money tied up in him, it’s not unfriendly money. A few years back, people were talking 8-10 mil a year for him. We’re uncomfortably close to 8 million per, but he still has enough of the “potential” aura about him, along with some abilities, that he could be good trade bait if nothing else.

I don’t wish the guy any ill, but I’m not looking for anything brilliant from him either.

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Big Ray, I see it like this. If by chance the Hawks sign Chills, then you work to trade Mo Evans for a cash like done in the David Anderson deal. Or possibly considering trading Marvin and the rights to Chills for Caron Butler. I actually think Dallas would do that deal. But Chills wouldn’t start over Marvin with Teague as the PG. With Chills and Teague inability to shoot, a small zone would put the Hawks at a huge disadvantage.

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I don’t know all of the ins and outs of the NBA salary cap, so can someone explain to me if signing Chills is the same cap-wise as signing someone else for the same money, and the only advantage we have with him is that we can match any offer he gets, or does signing him allow us to add a rotational player without impacting our cap as much as signing a UFA would?

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Ramon, I don’t see how Marvin brings anything more as a shooter than Chills. Marvin’s got a career FG% of .455, while Childress’ is .522. And Marvin’s career 3P% is .303, compared to .360 for Chills. Chills always took heat for his funky shot, but it’s more effective than Marvin’s, even if it is less conventional.

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I would love to have Chills back but it seems that he is WAY over estimating his value. He is a very good role player. What type of money does he think that he is going to get?

What are his hard feeling for? No one was knocking down his door when he was a free agent? Is that Atlanta’s fault? Is our ownership to fault for that?

Has he ever seen his own jump shot? Yikes!

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Good commentary Ray and Astro. I’m enjoying the banter. If Chills wants to come back and we sign Joe we’ll have to part with Mo or Marvin or possibly both. If Joe doesn’t sign he might be worth a chance here? It thought he played hard, he came up with timely rebounds on both ends and played good defense. I liked Chills. I do say Mo wearing #1 was a true slap from Sund. They made sure to let the kid know he wasn’t as good as he thought. We definitely did the same to a 7′ brusier who proved valuable in Portland till his latest injury. Stupid to burn bridges like that, but that’s my take.

I’m definitely interested to see how Drew will use Teague to speed up the offense. I want to see Drew use Teague to set up our shooters for open shots, not iso all day. Iso is great in some situations, but not all the time. We need a good fast paced offense similar to what Indiana used to do for Reggie Miller. We have shooters, we just don’t use them effectively.

Right now it seems we have plenty of options for PG-SF if Joe stays or Chills returns. What other options do we have set for PF and C? Are we signing Collins, Joe Smith or Randolph? Is Gani enough? Who else is out there?

What free agents will Sund/Drew allow to drop and who are we looking into? What are some thoughts on the Hawks trying to sign someone like Joel Anthony, Jamaal Magloire, Johan Petro at backup or center? Are there any true bigs with range we could use to allow Smoove and Horford to post while they popped from the perimeter similar to Big Z?

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Dap01

I’ll agree that year we left our FA hung out for offers. They both got mad when no real offers came. Both Josh’s thought they were worth alot more than they got offered from the Hawks, but nobody else really offered at the time so who’s to blame? No one I guess in actuality.

Reality checked in for both kids. It was a true slap in the face for both kids. Niether took it well. Sund’s actions thereafter with Flip & Mo solidified the notion that they were expendable. In my mind giving Mo #1 was a message to Chills that he was overpriced, expendable and replaced. No wonder he doesn’t want to come back. He’d look like a fool. Only he looks like a fool there too? Muddy, muddy water.

I personally liked the kids game and would like to see him here. If not here I’d like to see him happy with any team as long as we get something in return. We’ve gotta get something for him. Losing him to Greece and retaining his rights was hard. Losing him altogether for nothing is even worse.

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GT, the last three years in Atlanta, Chills didn’t shoot more than 77 3pt attempts, as opposed to Marvin who shot 155 and 132 over the last two seasons. Two seasons ago Marvin shot closed to 36% from 3pt land. His percentage went down last season mainly because his shot attempts still went down. Just because one player starts over another doesn’t mean he’s better, it just mean he’s better suited for that role. In a motion offense, I truly believe Marvin would do better coming off screens than Chills would. If you remember majority of the shots Chills used to make would always be set shots. If you remember Bowen started over Ginobli AND Finley, although he wasn’t a better overall player than either.

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Fundamentals: I completely agree.
This summer is going to be crazy with all of the possibilities. Even if we lose our best player in JJ, we have the ability to be good again.

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My sources at the NBA here in China tell me Childress will end up in either Golden State or Atlanta.

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Ramon, I thought Marvin’s shots from 3 went down because he was told to stop shooting them and be more aggressive towards the basket. I was going to mention that Chillz also seemed to have a better idea of when to jack up a j and when to slash to the basket than Marvin does, which is part of the reason his FG% was so much higher than Marvin’s. He didn’t jack up a bunch of outside jumpers when he could get higher percentage shots.

Also, the reason Bowen started over Ginobli and Finley is because he was an absolute pest on the defensive end on the floor. I would love Marvin if he consistently brought that kind of defensive intensity, but Marvin is mediocre on both ends of the floor.

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I think Childress can be persuaded to re-join the Hawks amicably. A $4.8 mil QO isn’t bad money for a player of Childress’ perceived caliber, especially with him having been away for 2 years. He probably has more true value than the 4.8, but I’m not sure he’s gonna get any substantially higher offers in this market.

I’m sure that was the point made during negotiations last time, but maybe the man just wants some old-fashioned R-E-S-P-E-C-T. Rick Sund needs to be a SALESMAN, a guy who can sell water to a whale. If Sund can multi-task, and focusing on retaining Joe and wooing Chills simultaneously, we might be able to keep one or both.

Money’s definitely a factor, but it’s also all about the apporach. Approach him again on the “I dare you to find something better” tip, and he’ll be headed back to Europe. Chill’s is an intelligent guy, Sund needs to stop trying to play him for a chump.

But then again, I guess that’s the kind of thinking that had him packing his bags for Greece in the 1st place.

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i say bring back chiils
one thing no one says is it is a fifth teen man roster
and to think the hawks don’t have five men better than chills on the roster
it’s like drafting players
would you rather draft a great point guard, or draft by need?
the hawks usually draft by need,we could of had rudy gay, or brandon roy best players available.
but we drafted a big bust because of the pressure to get a big forward, sheldon williams
i say u get the best players, then u move the garbage elsewhere and let it go
the good allstar level talent is josh,al,joe, jamal
the promising talent is teague
the average is marvin( who if he wasn’t a fifth option could be a lot better)
so someone tell me how chills couldn’t help this team?
we could actually bring chills and jamal off the bench
add a good big one who can rebound and defend and we would be much more improved
only thing we’ll need then is a mike miller type kapono player just 2 hit the open j

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“Rick Sund needs to be a SALESMAN, a guy who can sell water to a whale.”

This brings back the age old argument — is it “water to a whale” or “water to a well”? I was always a “well” guy myself…

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“as long as they are over the cap, the only way they can sign UFAs from other teams is to use the mid-level, bi-annual, or minimum exceptions. if they sign Chills, they’d still have those exceptions available for UFAs.”

How much less likely are they to do this if they sign Chills though, knowing their financial problems?

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last time josh was with the hawks he sucked in fact he was so bad that he went to eroupe where he needs to stay the hawks should look to trade and open some cap space to sign some free agents

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This is the biggest free agent year of any sport of all time. If JoJo leaves we may be better off. I think they should look at Marquis Daniels Mike Miller Flip Murray(AGAIN LOL) and Josh Howard. Any of these guys can be a suitible back up to Jamal Crawford. I also wouldn’t mind them trying to net Brad Miller though he may want more then they spend he can bring the Illgauskas type of out side shooting they wanted.

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Yes, I think Chills fixs into our plans…1) This would be a new beginning for him and coach Drew’s new offense, allowing him to be even more affective going to the basket, or by receiving the ball on a back cut to the basket from Josh or Al Horford. 2) If JJ stays, he could start over Marvin, while the 2nd string is Bibby,Jamal, Marvin,Al move to PF or Morris, & Zaza. 3) If JJ leaves, Jamal starts in his place while 2nd string is, Bibby, Mo Evans, Chills, Al, & Zaza..& 4) It gives the Hawks with 2 players with very high b-ball IQ in Chills and Al Horford…u cant beat that with a stick!!

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MC its all about leverage, Chills wants back in ATL since Woody is gone. His agent just wants the right money for his client and himself. Sund if you play your cards right, in Chills you may have great trade value or a quality guy off the bench. But please check Chills out first to see if he is damaged goods. Some guys go to Europe and turn to dough and get very soft and feel entitled. Management demand a physical and workout if you decide to sign him. If its a good offer out their trade him as soon as he gets off his plane.

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@mystikal: Just “discovered” Jerome Jordan and he seems to be an interesting player. Has size-7′,240-50 lbs and is rated as a potential starter inspite of only playing organized ball for 6 years(he is 24). The Jamaican Sensation could have some attaction IF the ownership wants a taller version of ALL STAR Al: not offensively polished and NOT a knock you on your behind kind of guy.But he is well spoken,polite and has 3 years college experience.AND if they are not still trying to raffle the teams first round draft pick off.

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Yeah ILL and I wasn’t talking to come in and start but having a legit 7 footer to develop. We been talking bout gettin one forever but they don’t grow on trees. Jordan isn’t uber athletic, but he does actually have skills. Who cares if he’s 24, that means he shouldn’t take as long to develop as Marv or Smoove. With our management situation, we still have problem drawing FA so do what we must.

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I think Chills’ issues were with both RSund and MWoodson. Sund didn’t respect his value to the team and tried to get him for nothing, by not extending him an offer and then playing the waiting gm. The Olympiakos offer blew everyone out of the water and sabotaged Sund’s strategy.

In typical stubborn, ridged Woodson fashion, he simply decided Chills was his sixth man and refused to give him a chance to be anything else, no matter what. Even when a key starter was out, Woodson would start a rookie rather than give Chills a chance.

Under current circumstances, it’s not up to Chills whether he plays for us or someone else. It’s up to the circumstances as they present themselves. Even if he ends up here against his wishes, giving him an honest chance to win the starting position would ease his discomfort. I believe if he can’t work out a suitable situation with another team, he’d take a one yr deal with us. After that, we’d have to pay up or he’s gone for good.

NEJAH-we didn’t do all that badly under Woodson with Zaza as our primary backup center, and that’s with reduced mins from the yr before. We could probably get a backup center like DJ MBenga without breaking the bank, and he would definitely give us a physical DEF presence in the middle.

Our front line players should be able to do a better job of rebounding and defending the basket now that they’ll no longer be forced to play Woody’s beloved switching DEF, and spend time out on the perimeter defending PG’s and SG’s. That should also cut down on their fouls. If we have to get rid of a player in order to sign Chills, it would be Bibby or Evans, not Marvin.

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The Hawks really don’t need a big man to beat the Magic. The C’s beat them with depth and toghness and defensive tanacity. A unathletic sore foot big man would do nothing but slow the hawks down on offense. If you draft a big man please draft an athletic one that can run up and down the floor and can pick the garbage up and rebound and get a few blocks. Hawks you need to look for a Theo Ratliff type guy.

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mc:

“yeah, certainly not a sure thing they’d do both, especially when you look at how last summer played out as far as re-signing guys but then not using the MLE.”

why dont you think they used the mle last year mc when they knew they were to be a very competitive team? what was the info you heard in miami? was it a surprise to you they didnt from your beach location, or did you not think the team was relevant going into the season lat year?

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Very good comments on here today. I like Chills and I hope he comes back to the Hawks. Mo has a very tradable contract so if Josh does come back I see us shipping Mo out of here. From reading the article about Chills situation I don’t think he has much leverage at all. His Greek team does not want to pay him all that money next year. Teams over there are notorious for not paying guys so even if he went back its not a guarantee they would even pay him. The Hawks and Chills camp just need to sit down talk it out and clear the air then get something done.

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Drew have 2 concentrate more on defense and make the hawks a tough defensive team.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!

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Hawks must do.
1.Bring joe and chill back.
2.Draft solomon alabi #24
3.Free agent sign al harrington.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

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If solomon alabi is not there a pick 24# take a strong look at brian zoubak, the hawks have 2 draft a center who think defense first and control the paint.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!

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Astro Joe,

Well said. Lebron’s definitely gonna milk it for all it’s worth. I’m no LBJ fan, but he’s a helluva businessman. But I’m curious to see how many of these other guys will actually wait on Lebron before making a move?

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Starks, Al Harrington??

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Heck, Childress never learned to shoot a jump shot. I say the Hawks can do better. I don’t like swayback Marvin either.

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Quick question, does anyone think Theo Ratliff is worth bringing in for the veteran’s minimum?

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Just say no to T-Mac! And that’s coming from a former huge fan of his. The guy just can’t stay healthy these days. He always talks about how he’s feeling better, or how he’s gonna be back to his old self, but he’s failed to show and prove. The heart is willing, but the body isn’t able.

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Can we expect more of this under LDrew ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FC5aLzd2HkE

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what terrell, marvin standing upright?

beat rod to the punch.

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I see that the saying “absence makes the heart grow fonder” applies also to Chills as well. Some blogs ago I responded to Rod with stat numbers between Marvin and Chills. Surprisingly, even after taking into account Marvin struggles this past season, Chills overall stats numbers (as an NBA player) were not much better then Marvin, so this notion that if Chills was playing for the Hawk again, he would automatically be an upgrade SG starter may be wishful thinking. The numbers don’t lie, at the end of the day, Chills has proven to be no more then a serviceable role player but with a JJ like ego. If he was such a hot commodity as he thinks he is; he would have easily secured an NBA trading partner by now to get paid the dollars he seek. He keeps extending his Greece contract because apparently he can’t find a suitable NBA deal beyond the Hawks projected offer that he likes.

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“Surprisingly, even after taking into account Marvin struggles this past season, Chills overall stats numbers (as an NBA player) were not much better then Marvin, so this notion that if Chills was playing for the Hawk again, he would automatically be an upgrade SG starter may be wishful thinking. ”

Stats don’t tell the whole story. I don’t deny that in the NBA Chills’ ceiling is nothing more than a very good role player, but simply comparing his production to Marvin’s doesn’t do him justice. The fact is, regardless of whether Marvin or Chills is this team’s SF, neither one is going to be a go-to scoring option, which then means we have to look at which one is better at doing the little things that define a good role player — such as scrambling for loose balls, getting putbacks and offensive rebounds, spacing the floor and knocking down open rhythm shots, and playing solid defense both on and off the ball. Marvin’s ceiling as a scorer is higher than Chills, but he is certainly not better than Chills at any of those things.

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Other than resigning JJ, and possibly Chills to a one yr deal, I don’t see us doing anything else, except filling out the roster with minimum cost players. Marvin, or Chills, Zaza, Crawford, Bibby and possibly Evans, if he’s not traded, will be the core of our bench.

I see LDrew having the Hawks running and attacking, while forcing bigger teams like the Lakers, Magic and Cavaliers to try and match our speed, quickness and athleticism. We’ll be the Phoenix Suns of the East, only quicker, faster, and more athletic, but with a commitment to playing DEF.

Since money is an issue, we can’t afford to load up on over priced past their prime vets and lose sight of the need to resign AHorford, and possibly JCrawford. However, since the contracts of Crawford and MEvans expire after this season, and Bibby’s contract will be tradeable then, we should be able to resign Horford without breaking the bank.

BIG RAY-I’m with you on wanting to see JJ in motion and coming off screens. In fact, JJ, JCrawford, MBibby, MWilliams and MEvans are all good shooters coming off screens. If LDrew’s OFF system is everything he says it is, we could be in for some very exciting Hawks basketball. Even with Woodson’s limited half court OFF, we still managed to score over 101PPG. With a more fluid OFF that attacks the basket and involves everyone, rather than relying primarily on jump shooting and ISO’s, we should improve upon that PPG average. And with us going back to playing a more traditional DEF, we should be able to improve on our overall DEF, rebounding and PPG allowed.

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NBA.com breakdown the Hawks…

http://www.nba.com/draft2010/teams/atl/

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Michael Cunningham–Thanks for answering My Question about the mysterious BOB WILLIAMS-based on what was written, it doesn’t appear he will have a meaningful role in Basketball Decisions.
In case you’re wondering about me–I have over a 50 Year Vested Interest in the Hawks. I hope everyone here gets to experience the Total Joy I felt when the Hawks won the NBA Title in 1958. I did make a Deal with the Devil–saying he could take me if the Hawks ever Won Another Championship. Since the Devil (not knowing the Hawks) accepted My Deal, I guess the way things are going this gives me Immortality. At any rate, I do appreciate Everyone on this or Any Hawks Blog–at one point (before the Internet) I thought I was alone.

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Enter your commFree agents:
G Joe Johnson (unrestricted)
F Joe Smith (unrestricted)
C Jason Collins (unrestricted)
F Randolph Morris (unrestricted)

Areas of strength:
Some teams would love a solid power forward. The Hawks have two. And they both start. Only problem is Al Horford is on the floor masquerading as a center. Horford cracked the All-Star lineup this year and is usually good for a double-double, and in the right scenario would blossom as a 6-10 power forward. But that’s also where Josh Smith toils, and he has grown steadily the last 3 seasons, maturing as a defender and inside scorer.ents here

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Fundementals, and dap01,

about this:

“I’ll agree that year we left our FA hung out for offers. They both got mad when no real offers came. Both Josh’s thought they were worth alot more than they got offered from the Hawks, but nobody else really offered at the time so who’s to blame? No one I guess in actuality.”

OK, guys, let’s not rewrite history. First, the Hawks announced long and loudly that they would match any offer to the Joshes. So THAT immediately cut some offers.

Also, Chills NEVER got a formal offer from the Hawks until AFTER the Olympiakos offer. What evidence can you offer to show that both Joshes “thought they were worth a whole lot more than the Hawks offered”?

Do you know them personally and they told you that? I never saw any story that summer about their dissatisfaction with Hawks offers. Obviously J. Smith and his agent wanted to test the free agent waters. And J. Childress was never offered ANYTHING until Olympiakos hit him up. THAT was his source of his ill will against the Hawks. At least Smith had an offer from the previous year.

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This adds nothing to the conversation, but the Hawks have only three players to show for the past 5 drafts.

It is a shame that the rebuilding process that I have followed for years was handled as poorly as possible.
If I recall correctly, the Hawks did not even work out Sheldon (number 5 pick) . They picked Childdress at #6 and he did not even get an offer when he was a FA

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dap01,

Good point. For a team that likes to build on its draft picks (and not sign big name FA), they have done a poor job of drafting. Compare us to a team like OKC, and you see how good that team is. It took us 5 years to win 47 games. It took OKC 3 years to win 50 games. And they did it the same way we did. Drafting. The difference is they knew to take Durant. We passed on CP3, Deron, Gay and Brandon Roy.

Previously, our assistant GM said there was not much value to the #24 pick. But it seems like he is changing his mind. From MC’s article on ajc.com;

“I do think we can get a pretty good piece [at No. 24]. It just depends on if we go after a guy who has upside and develop him, or if there is a guy there with an NBA skill.”

I’m glad to see he is acknowledging what almost every Hawks fan knew already…

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HOW IS MIKE WOODSON A PLAYER’S COACH IF HE CONSISTENTLY ALIENATED THE BENCH AND ROOKIES?

WAKE UP U MORONS.

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Jeje,

Must you shout?

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I thought they had already fired Woodson? So is thats one reason Chill wont come back?

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Does anyone at AJC actually proofread what’s put on the site?

“It’s possible the Hawks will beat the odds and select a player in Thursday’s NBA Draft who at least does one or two things well enough to help them next season.”

This is one of the most poorly crafted sentences I’ve read in my 21 years.

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SUND DRAFTED SWIFT, PETRO, AND SENE WITH HIGH 1ST RDERS
LOL!

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I thought this was a Hawk fan blog sight. Why are you being so hateful ms JeJe

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My guy, Jerome Jordan. Using both hands in the post. Nice.

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Interview—Workout-Footage-with-Jerome-Jordan-3506/

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It would be nice if we could get another second round pick. A early second rounder. Its a lot of talent in this draft and seeing how the Hawks wont have money to sign some better depth ,it would be nice to use the draft. Get a guy like Jerome Jordan early in the second or the Richards kid who looks to have some nice skills. Either way I think another second round pick could be beneficial. Also nice to see that the kid they took last year will be playing in the summer league. Does Othello get another shot? I thought he had some skills to work with but they chose to go with no game Mario for whatever reason.

Astro you think Jerome will be there in the second or do you see him moving up in the first?

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Michael, AJC is a newspaper is it not? The ACTUAL OFFICIAL name of the club is Olympiacos. Olympiakos is NOT the name of the club. I would think a newspaper could at least get the name right. Perhaps your editor would be interested to know?

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Sautee

The all CAPS actually makes it easier to – “Get your Scroll – On!”
You can really see the BS coming from a long ways & then you just. step on the gas
when you see the really big words!

I actually kind of nice, knowing: which posts that don’t require reading.

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Chris paul could be on the trading block, can the hawks get him and what would it take ?
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!

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TEAGUE and JAMAL for CHRIS PAUL, with jamal expiring contract the trade might work.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!

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Sautee – I agree and contend that both Josh’s had a number in their mind, not an offer from the Hawks. Memphis and Philly made it a bit interesting for Josh. Yes we contended to match, but both kids still had their idea of what they were worth. When no one really made an offer they both got offended and took it out on the Hawks. The Greek offer took Sund by surprise no doubt and gave Chills an out, while Smoove was stuck here with no power to move elsewhere.

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You guys can get mad if you want when I say this, but I would trade Bibby, Marvin and Horford for Chris Paul and Okafor. True enough we’d have to eat a horrible contract from Okafor, but they’ll be eating Bibby and Marvin’s. A line up of Chris Paul, Joe, Chills (or Brewer), Josh, and Okafor would be a great defensive unit who could get into transition very quickly. Horford is going to continue to get better. But Horford will never be the leader who fills the two most important needs as a team leader in today’s NBA (win and sell tickets). However, Chris Paul would do both of those. I know people will say why not Josh, but the truth is they wouldn’t take Josh for Paul, because Josh and David West couldn’t play together.

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Ramon,

I don’t think the Hornets would trade CP3 just to get rid of Okafor. If they do trade him, I think they will want more in return than Horford (Marvin and Bibby are just average). Plus other teams in the league will have better offers than the Hawks.

I think the Hornets would prefer to trade Okafor and Collison, but keep CP3. Are you interested in that deal? Okafor and Collison for Bibby and Marvin maybe?

I would still pass on that deal though, because Okafor’s contract is horrible, and I don’t want to pay him that much money to be a bench player for us (I am not starting him over Horford).

Fundamentals,

If I’m not mistaken, Sund said other teams made offers for Chills (in the form of sign and trade), but Sund said none of them were of good value to the Hawks, so he passed. Chills was mad because the Hawks never made him an offer, even after Josh Smith was signed.

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O’Brien, Al Horford is the only All Star that NO could get for Paul. NO are listening to offers from the Knicks, New Jersey, and two other teams. We both know New York and Jersey have no player on their team who is better than Horford. I would take Okafor and Collison for Bibby and Marvin. But I would only do that deal if I knew for certain that Chills was going to sign.

Sautee, they could substitute Peja for Okafor then. Paul and Peja for Horford, Bibby, Marvin, and Evans. Of course Peja is on his last legs, and making $15 mil a season, but he’s in the last year of his contract (and NO does want to rid themselves of that contract). Imagine being able to have a lineup of Paul, Joe, Chills, Josh, (Haywood-Chandler-Shaq?) with Crawford still coming off the bench, and Peja as the deadly shooter they’ve wanted for years. That is a team that challenges any one who they play in the second round. And the best part about it is on that roster you’d have over $25 mil coming off the books at the end of the season with Crawford and Peja’s contracts expiring. And also that roster will be a lot more marketable, and end up saving the team money over the next season.

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The NBA is becoming a lot like the NFL in regards to, now you have to have TWO high quality PGs to compete. In the Finals, often the team who got the most production out of their combined 2 PGs was the team who won each game.

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richbrave

June 22nd, 2010
11:18 am
MIKE MILLER has just made it crystal clear that he will not return to the locker-room festivities at the phone booth. Do the HAWKS need an experienced 2-3 combo player who’s a facilitator, and has a solid outside shot? He’s on the market.

We’ve been kicking this around over a BIG RAY’s. And thoughts here. BTW, new WIZARDS owner TED LEONSIS has been taking in a lot of b-ball in GREECE most recently and said so in his rambling intro last week. He wants to trade up for somebody in the 18-22 bracket. Of course, it’s a state secret. If that particular player is still on the board at #24 don’t bee surprised to see GRUNFELD and SUND in the phones trying to work a deal for the #24 and CHILLS for the #30, #35, JOSH HOWARD, and……..money? They sure don’t have any other players or picks to offer. They only have five 2010-11 players under contract at the moment

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Ramon,

Decent trade proposal, but no way they give up Al while he’s still earning rookie pay. All-stars and high-efficiency players playing on rookie contracts are the best bargain in the league. They’d give up Josh first if the trade went down, current salaries considered.

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Mismatches, fooled

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Any Kevin Seraphin fans on here? From the Milwaukee journal online;

The Bucks were expected to meet with French center Kevin Seraphin Monday, but changed their plans. Seraphin had flown from Toronto to Chicago and was then going to Milwaukee. When he was informed the Bucks felt it wasn’t necessary to meet with him, Seraphin took a flight to Atlanta and met with Hawks officials.

Ramon,

For N.O. to trade CP3, arguably a top 5 PG, and the face of their franchise, I think they will have to be blown away with a trade offer. I dont think them getting Horford and giving up Okafor is being ‘blown away’.

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“TEAGUE and JAMAL for CHRIS PAUL, with jamal expiring contract the trade might work.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!”

I think the IQ of everyone who read this dropped by 10 points.

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@ Najeh, lol…. my trade proposal did have some room to debate and logical sense. lol

@ O’Brien, you don’t think NO would want a young big who can play PF or C, who’s already an all star even though he hasn’t peaked. And also there are a lot rumors that Paul has told management he would prefer to be traded. Right now, I’m just doing the only thing Hawks fan can do with ASG and that’s dream, lol.

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Those of you throwing around CP3 trade scenarios need to understand something — Hornets owner George Shinn is looking to sell the team. How much value do you think he is going to get for them if he trades their only superstar player, their only guy who sells tickets and merchandise?

I have thrown around CP3 trade scenarios before, but all of that a) involved Joe Johnson going to New Orleans, b) involved the Hawks taking back one of the Hornets’ atrocious contracts, and c) was discussed by me before the Hornets went up for sale. Right now there is next to no chance CP3 gets traded, and certainly not for anything the Hawks can give them in return.

Now Darren Collison, on the other hand, is a viable trade target provided the Hawks can take back one of the Hornets’ bad contracts at the same time.

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Najeh Davenpoop

June 22nd, 2010
1:35 pm

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richbrave:

What about:
Childress (S&T) + 24 to Washington
Hawks get
McGee + 30 & or 35
We, the Hawks (our Josh), don’t need any part of Josh ”ditchweed” Howard.

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I smell a Horford hater…oh wait, we all know who it is…

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Grandad,

I’m gonna have to respectfully disagree.

Trading a 2nd tier role player and a medium to low draft pick for a 3rd tier role player and an even lower draft pick??? I’m sure we can get more for Childress than that. Let’s not hustle backwards.

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Ramon & Sautee

I can’t say I’m anal enough to book links from ages back to document that the two Josh’s had their feelings hurt two summers ago. Give me a break. Were you around then? I don’t think I’m doing them any disservice. They were both grumpy that whole summer and pouted when the big money offers didn’t show. Chills waited on someone to kiss his…well last summer and didn’t come over. He’s proven he’s all about the money and pride.

Chills went to Greece with a chip on his shoulder and now we’re contemplating his return? I’d love to have him back, but he’s gotta be 100% committed to Drew’s team

Same for Joe

Same for every player. We need them working hard to make our team as good as it can be or step aside and let folks get to work.

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Stephen Smith on 790. We may need to really consider life without Joe. However I’m tired of hearing all this talk about Lebron, Amare, Joe, Bosh, etc. I think they all are drama queens. We never saw the past great players hold their teams’ hostage by threaten not to re-sign with them. If Joe wants to be here, than man up and say you want to be here or at least something similar to what DWade has been saying about the Heat “his preference is to sign with the Heat but they need to get him some help”. But then again, I should expect that out of Joe who wants Batman money but acts like robin.

http://www.790thezone.com/instantreplay/Episodes.aspx?PID=1345

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Fundamentals,

You say that Chills and Smoove was disgruntle for having to wait around for there money but my question to you is why should they have to wait? Hawks could have started negotiatation on their contracts July 1 (or prior to) but instead they told both of them to go find a better offer in which they did. Lucky for Hawks fans, they were able to match one but look like a fool b/c the Greek offer blindsided them.

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If I’m JJ, I’m hoping the Bulls make a strong offer.

When JJ came to the Hawks, he said Woody was one of the reasons why he came. Woody was a defensive assistant who worked under LB, and helped the Pistons win a title.

In Chicago, the new coach is Thibodeau, who was one of (if not the) best defensive assistants in the league. He coached under JVG and Doc Rivers, and he has a championship ring with another finals appearance. I can see JJ wanting to play for him.

Plus the Bulls have a PG who is on his way to being a top 5 PG. And the Bulls are not currently looking for investors to help offset their losses. Plus JJ would get more love from the Bulls fans.

Not to mention the fact that the Bulls can sign one big name FA and SNT for another.

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Fundamentals,

If YOU want to rewrite history, go ahead and try. But you can expect some blow back if you fail to provide a source. Yes, I was there for that summer and many before. I have NO memory of any story about their dissatisfaction until well after Chills was in Greece.

But the least you could do is say “IMO”, or “as I remember”, or something. When you say it as if it’s fact, expect folks to hold your feet to the fire.

You said: “They were both grumpy that whole summer and pouted when the big money offers didn’t show.”

I say B.S. Can you SHOW us where you “found out” that they were grumpy and pouting?

If you don’t want to back your claim up, then just back off your claim and say it’s your opinion. Simple as that.

Otherwise on a sports blog, expect to be accosted for lack of proof.

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The Innocence Project

Sautee says, “Innocent until Proven Guilty.”. But, you have got to PROVE it!

-sniggles-

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CP3 on the trading block?

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Hornets cutting payroll. How bout Jamal(expiring),Bibby(expires next year), and #24 for Paul?

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Fundamentals, most veterans don’t start training for the next season until after the Fourth of July. Most NBA players take a 4-6 week minimum break before truly starting to go full speed for next season. So right now, it will be hard for MC to get a story on off season conditioning, when most of them haven’t started. Majority of the players working out now are either first to third year players, or players coming off injury and rehabbing for next season.

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Ramon,

If you were Marvin would you not have a plan on where you’re going, what you’re working on and who you’re working with? If each player doesn’t have ideas by now we’re doomed. I don’t make 7.5 mills and I know what I’ll be doing clear into next year.

How do you line up key trainers or programs w/o planning well in advance? I’d be lining that up b/f I took off to rest. If I laid and egg like Marvin I’d consider not taking a few weeks off this summer. We needed him then desperately…and that’ll only be more important next year. He’s critical to our success!

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Big Ray

June 22nd, 2010
2:10 pm

LOL- Gee Blue Ray, Thanks You did indeed make me smile. I dont know what provoked you to turn your attention to me and “sow discord among brotheren ” I understand hat-en is a full time job but Blue Ray, I wont tell anybody to hate on you, I wont get made if you have a mutual respected blog buddy agree with your view. Ray!

What? Its not about my position? I was told that type of hat-en was referred to a bbitching. Why you BBitching?

How big of you? who’d a thuk it ?

Big, Real Big Ray!

Ive learn a long time ago let your haters be your motivators…..

Have a nice day.

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“NO would be much easier to sell without Paul and Peja (or Okafor) than they would be with Paul, Peja, and Okafor.”

I definitely agree that they will be looking to unload Peja, Okafor, Posey, and the several other underachievers on their roster. They have one solid bargaining chip in Darren Collison that they can use to sweeten any deal that involves unloading those contracts. I have suggested dealing Crawford and a couple of our bad contracts for Collison and Okafor’s contract in the past. But without CP3, that team becomes one of the least marketable, least attractive franchises for a potential owner to have.

At least, that’s what makes logical sense to me. I’d like to know if MC agrees with that assessment or not.

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LMAO @ jroc’s 3:05 PM post. I’m right with you dude.

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*Ray, any one who suggest that we can upgrade by trading horford is some one who is not a blind worshiper as you appear to be

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northcyde

June 22nd, 2010
6:24 pm

It’s like I’ve been saying for a week or two now. The history of the NBA shows that the value picks late in the 1st round are usually guys who are undersized PFs that can ball, or high scoring guards who people may have an issue with in other areas.

And these are the types of guys that can usually step right in and make an impact.

Centers are coveted more than anything in the NBA. If 20 – 25 teams pass a guy up, he’s probably not going to be as impactful as fans want to believe.

I still say a guy like Jarvis Varnado has to be considered by the Hawks, if he had a good workout on Sunday. He possesses the two things this team could really use:

- another rebounder ( especially on the defensive boards )

- a shot blocker / shot changer ( because Zaza isn’t going to block shots, and Horford doesn’t block / change enough shots )

But his lack of bulk / strength scares the hell out of everybody. It’ll be interesting to see who takes him.

As for the BPA . . . I also said last week that it may be Terrico White. He’s by far the best athlete on that group. Jordan Crawford is a lot like Jamal, in that he’s a good scorer off the dribble. It wouldn’t shock me one bit to see either of these two taken.

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Fundamentals,

Now was that so hard?

I wasn’t trying to be a jerk. I said up front that I wasn’t defending anyone, but looking for the truth of the matter. You seemed from your statements to know something I had never heard. So I asked if you could source it. If that’s being a jerk in your eyes, so be it.

I DO have a burr about people making statements of fact when it is actually their opinion. I’m not worried about you putting IMO in every statement you make, but if someone calls you out and you are too lazy to source it (happens to me a LOT) then why make an issue of it, when you can just say (at THAT point) “Yeah, it was my opinion” or “Well, that’s how I remember it” or a million different variations. You did that finally, but it took me pushing you. I’m sorry if I pushed too hard.

Understand that I’m fighting for a more credible blog. It’s not personal. I know that I have become a better blogger from being pushed to be responsible for my views.

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Grandad

June 22nd, 2010
1:48 pm
richbrave:

What about:
Childress (S&T) + 24 to Washington
Hawks get
McGee + 30 & or 35
We, the Hawks (our Josh), don’t need any part of Josh ”ditchweed” Howard.

They can’t give up McGEE, he’s the only contracted center on the team. Like I said, money and picks are just about all they’ve go to move up for the ‘SECRET” person between 18-22 which I believe to be ALABI. And 2-4 may not get the deal done. They want 18 or thereabouts and are saying they want to retain picks 30 and 35 as well. Frankly I don’t know whose girfrind could be made available to entice a team to just throw away a 18 to 22 pick. These guys are dreamin’ man.

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Seems to me Childress was alway getting a key rebound or managed to stick in an unlikely basket here and there when it was needed for a victory…..and that he was a definite asset as a Hawk. Just an impression.

There’s a better way to look at this……We have a lot of assets…..not problems………..keep all the pieces and fit them together……The teaching job here will be “Trust your teammate. Egos don’t count in the win columns.”

The franchise situation sucks. The hiring of Drew (Good luck Drew!) indicates to me that this team WILL be sold and that ASG has given up. A few more millions to a proven coach should have translated to millions more in returns if there were any fight left in the owners at all..

Who has the money to buy this team in Atlanta? CocaCola ? Ted Tur…wait…he bought up several states, right? Atlanta has neither the unity, the cultural background, or the corporate intellect to compete unless the city starts using a heretofore unused asset, something called “brains.” Ted Turner let this team go to Hell…..but he did have brains and vision. He took on CBS, NBC and ABC and he beat them all, He won the frickin’ America’s Cup!

Ted….how come you couldn’t help the Hawks?.

..

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I don’t see how trading Horford on his rookie contract is good asset management. His value on the floor is much higher than his salary right now. Josh Smith would bring the most back in trade value.

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