Atlanta Hawks: Lawal gets close look from Hawks
Lawal wants the Hawks. They might want him, too. (Johnny Crawford/jcrawford@ajc.com)
Gani Lawal, out of Norcross High School and Georgia Tech, hopes the Hawks draft him next week. It could happen, too: Word is he’s one of five players the Hawks are considering selecting with the No. 24 overall pick.
Lawal was at Philips Arena today to work out. He said it was his 13th stop on the predraft workout circuit and he’s still not done. Lawal put his name on the early-entry list in 2009 but decided to return to Tech for his junior season.
“I needed to go back to school,” he said. “I don’t think it was a bad decision to go back. I felt confident, and I feel like it helped me. It may not jump out on the stat sheet. [But] my understanding of the game increased and improved and I’m glad I went back.”
When he got back his 2009 draft evaluation, in what areas did NBA personnel types tell him he needed to improve?
“Passing out of the post, playing through double teams, my anticipation on defense, my free throws, ballhandling, shooting,” he said.
Lawal looked smaller than I expected. Maybe that’s because I spend so much time around NBA dudes but, well, that’s what he’s trying to be, right? Draftexpress.com says Lawal’s wingspan measures 7 feet but when I saw him I didn’t immediately think, “There goes an NBA power forward.”
I’m not going to pretend I watched him play a whole lot this past season (I’m more of a Big East guy), so better to trust those who did. NBADraft.net says Lawal is a “strong, athletic and lengthy 6′9 forward (in shoes) . . .who has been able to use his physical tools to gain the advantage over whoever guards him” but notes “his faceup game and [outside] jumper will both need to improve if he wants to play real consistent minutes at the next level, as he won’t be able to use his body in the pro’s the same way he uses it in college.”
Lawal is among those prospects who left school early despite no guarantee they’d be selected in the first round and get a guaranteed deal. It seems there’s a new breed of guys who decide to get on the workout circuit and show what they can do.
“At this point you’ve got to have confidence in yourself,” Lawal said. “If you don’t, nobody else will. What somebody puts on a piece of paper two months from the draft my change drastically once the draft gets around.”
– The Hawks have said they’d like to get a wing with shooting ability or a center out of the draft, but L.D. said today: “Realistically, at that area [No.24] in the draft, you are looking at the best available player.” Already, it seems like player-development will be a focus for Atlanta going forward, so don’t be surprised if the Hawks draft a player at a position where they seem set and then bring that prospect along for the future.
– Jordan Crawford was supposed to work out for the Hawks on Wednesday but canceled for unknown reasons. I think the Hawks were disappointed not to get another close look at Crawford, who seems to fit their desire for a catch-and-shoot type wing player. Crawford blossomed into a productive player at Xavier after a lost season at Indiana.
– The prospects who’ve come through so far say the Hawks have been less focused on physical contact in the workout sessions and more concerned with seeing their skills.
MC
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243 comments Add your comment
John Brown
June 17th, 2010
2:06 pm
Wow. I won’t even say it. ; )
John Brown
June 17th, 2010
2:08 pm
Kid sounds like a little undersized. I’d rather take a chance on a longer shot European, but hey, what do I know.
dap01
June 17th, 2010
2:10 pm
Thank MC. Who are the other players that the Hawks are focued on?
Sautee
June 17th, 2010
2:13 pm
I have a friend with Tech Season tickets, and I’ve watched Lawal for more than a few games. He still looks raw to me, even this year.
Good, maybe great athletic skills, average basketball player.
I’d pass on him for someone who can contribute immediately.
moboman
June 17th, 2010
2:14 pm
Lawal is a perfect Clippers pick. Hawks should look elsewhere. Bad hands, poor decision maker.
T.J.
June 17th, 2010
2:24 pm
We should seriously give Lance Stephenson a shot. I think he be good if JJ leaves or even off the bench he could develop into a threat. Not to mention he’s got loads potential.
Henry
June 17th, 2010
2:28 pm
Gee that pretty much why fans do follow the hawks. They clearly need a center to the team scouts a power forward. This club will be lottery in 3 years
hmmmmmmmm.
June 17th, 2010
2:29 pm
Enter your comments here
hmmmmmmmm.
June 17th, 2010
2:30 pm
PASS!!!!!!!!!! Nothing there to help us.
Mystikal
June 17th, 2010
2:33 pm
MC, from your eyes and ears, if someone hawks like falls out of lottery or 16 to 20 range any chance they try to move up?
dap01
June 17th, 2010
2:34 pm
A Power Forward who is projected to be a role player should not be drafted. Power forward is the position of least need on the Hawks’ roster.
O'Brien
June 17th, 2010
2:35 pm
Sautee,
As a Tech fan, I watched a few games on TV. and if lawal is one of 5 players the hawks are looking at, I hope he is 4th or 5th on the list.
Speaking of wings who can shoot, i hope Marvin improves his shooting next season. He has good form, so I think its all in his head.
Astro Joe
June 17th, 2010
2:36 pm
@MC, the Hawks have all of 3 bigs signed next season (Horford, Smith and Zaza). Bigs cost more than wings in free agency (as a general rule). It doesn’t make a lot of sense to ask a coach with only a 2 year guarantee to develop an NBDL type (as Pendergraph suggested) or a raw prospect. Nor does it make sense to expect the ASG to spend in free agency (last time we paid more than $3M for a free agent was in 2006). Seemingly, the most logical selection would be a big upperclassman who can contribute immediately and has demonstrated good production while in school. Brackins, James, Booker and Jerome Jordan are a few names who immediately come to mind. Just get Coach Drew someone who is likely ready from the beginning of camp as opposed to bringing in Stromile Swift or the NBDL version of the same. Let’s set Drew up for success as opposed to filling his roster with undrafted projects or still-wet-behind-their-ears-prospects.
GT Alum
June 17th, 2010
2:36 pm
Sautee, that’s kind of the point. Everyone’s saying it’s not likely there will be someone who can make a big immediate impact available at that spot.
O'Brien
June 17th, 2010
2:38 pm
For a center, I would take a flyer on Dexter Pittman from Texas. He has legit size, although conditioning and fouls are an issue.
But from what I have read, he is a better player than Siler.
Kenbud
June 17th, 2010
2:40 pm
Dude … can’t tell us there are 5 players the Hawks are looking at and then only tell us one (Lawal). LOL … it’s like we’re being teased.
And ix-nay on Lance Stephenson. Talent, yes. Sanity, no.
O'Brien
June 17th, 2010
2:40 pm
Just to be clear, I meant taking Pittman in the SECOND round
GT Alum
June 17th, 2010
2:41 pm
As much as Lawal contributed for Tech, he looks to be another Josh Smith/Josh Childress/Marvin Williams-style player, but not as freakishly athletic as Smith and not as good a shooter as Childress. I just don’t see Lawal filling a need or getting much playing time here. The Hawks honestly will probably be doing him and themselves a disservice if they draft him.
Sautee
June 17th, 2010
2:45 pm
GT Alum,
If we’re drafting a project, I want more upside than I’ve seen from Lawal.
Sorry, but not all Yellow Jackets will become Chris Bosh.
Michael Cunningham
June 17th, 2010
2:47 pm
@dap01: “Who are the other players that the Hawks are focued on?” not quite sure, hope to figure it out soon.
GT Alum
June 17th, 2010
2:49 pm
I wasn’t saying that as an endorsement of Lawal. If you read the next post I made, I did anything but endorse the Hawks drafting Lawal. I agree completely on wanting someone with more upside. I was just trying to temper the expectations of folks who are expecting to get some immediate help in the draft.
Michael Cunningham
June 17th, 2010
2:49 pm
@Mystikal: “MC, from your eyes and ears, if someone hawks like falls out of lottery or 16 to 20 range any chance they try to move up?”
always possible, i guess, but it seems like the Hawks don’t like this group very much outside of the guys everyone likes. also, they aren’t really expecting a rotation player out of this draft so i don’t see them trading one to move up.
Big Ray
June 17th, 2010
2:51 pm
You don’t get a center with the 24th pick. You might be able to get a center project , but that’s about it. Otherwise, there are wings and dirty work forwards. All the guys you could remotely call a center, that are worth bothering with, are likely gone by picks 15-20, much less #24.
Michael Cunningham
June 17th, 2010
2:52 pm
@ Astro Joe: “Seemingly, the most logical selection would be a big upperclassman who can contribute immediately and has demonstrated good production while in school. Brackins, James, Booker and Jerome Jordan are a few names who immediately come to mind. Just get Coach Drew someone who is likely ready from the beginning of camp as opposed to bringing in Stromile Swift or the NBDL version of the same. Let’s set Drew up for success as opposed to filling his roster with undrafted projects or still-wet-behind-their-ears-prospects.”
i’m sure the Hawks would prefer your plan but, as Pendergraft said, they don’t think any of those kind of guys will be there at No. 24. we shall see.
i_am_soulstar
June 17th, 2010
2:52 pm
You need physical contact in these workouts. Some guys are a lot less effective when physicality is involved (see Marvin Williams) and this certainly needs to be known.
Michael Cunningham
June 17th, 2010
2:53 pm
@Kenbud: haha . . . don’t mean to tease, but that’s all the info i have right now.
Jesse
June 17th, 2010
2:54 pm
We need a pure shooter. Draft a guy who can come in and knock down 3s. Like a Korver type. That’s what this team is missing. A pure shooter.
GT Alum
June 17th, 2010
2:55 pm
So, Big Ray, do you see Gawal being a dirty work forward? I even think he’d need work in that regard. I just don’t see him getting a lot of PT here over the next couple of years.
Ken Strickland
June 17th, 2010
2:55 pm
If we’re seriously looking for a wing player or center in the draft, it means Sund has an idea about what JJ will do, or who he can get to replace him in FA. Rather than drafting a PF, why not take the safer route and resign and develop former Hawk OHunter, who’s just as athletic, and is more advanced experience wise.
You can forget a potential sign and trade with JJ for Philly center SDelembert, who’s just been traded to the Kings for center SHawes and SF ANocioni.
Navigator
June 17th, 2010
2:57 pm
Wrong, Wrong, Wrong, Wrong!!!!????? The Hawks don’t need another forward. A lack of center is the reason Orlando beat them like a drum. If they have to trade their #1 draft pick to get a defensive center, do it, but do not draft another forward.
Astro Joe
June 17th, 2010
2:58 pm
Fine, I wil have to dust off my Shelden Williams, Othella Hunter and Salim Stoudemire jerseys… since the ASG will likely offer those guys minimum deals and expect Drew to perform the miracles on those guys that Woody failed to complete. Maybe Drew can lay hands on Speedy and get him to be a valuable 3rd PG.
JoJo the Godfather
June 17th, 2010
3:02 pm
Any draft picks in that Phi/Sac deal? Sac just cleared a lot of salary (Nocioni has 2yrs $13.5M & Hawes is restricted next year) and got a decent player in doing so.
klerthinker
June 17th, 2010
3:03 pm
Draft an athletic full sized center.Turn him over to Al Horfred, who can train him and help form the right attitude required to be successful. Also get Josh Childress back on the roster.
GStateBen
June 17th, 2010
3:04 pm
Lance Stephenson will likely be available in the 2nd round so that’s decent. I’ve been banging the drum for weeks, it has to be Solomon Alabi @ 24 if he lasts that long. We need an athletic center who can pass and block shots. His offensive game is good enough and he’s an above average FT shooter.
Hawks can’t have major interest in Gani because he is shorter and less physical then any of the current forwards on the current roster.
GT Alum
June 17th, 2010
3:04 pm
Navigator, it’ll take more than just the 24th pick to get a defensive center. We’d likely have to trade Josh, Joe, Al or Jamal to get a player like that. Maybe next offseason we could get something of value for Bibby, since his contract will be expiring after next year, but, here and now, at least one of those four would have to be part of any deal that would see a good center coming our way.
Ken Strickland
June 17th, 2010
3:05 pm
ASTRO JOE-Woody didn’t fail to complete the development of those players, he made absolutely no attempt to even start their development.
bigdave
June 17th, 2010
3:13 pm
i happen to like Lawal @ 24..
i like the work he does on the glass, particularly offensive. right now, he is a better finisher than ZaZa and could thrive from dribble penetrating guards looking to dish. his on ball defense is better than Za Za right now. that Ga Tech program breeds solid defenders. i feel he could come in and contribute off the bench. he has some dog in his game. he displayed a nice touch around the basket, with a turnaround/fall-away jumper with his back to the basket over either shoulder. it was clear that he worked on his game after his So. year. that alone speaks for his work ethic. if he develops a mentality to be a tenacious rebounder and scrapper he can develop into a solid big.
cp
June 17th, 2010
3:20 pm
Ehh I’m not a big fan of Lawal. There will be some players at 24 who can help its just up to this scouting department to get it right. It always seems as if the guys chosen after the Hawks picks end up as better players. Talent will be there at 24 we just better hope the guys did their homework on these players. I wonder who we will have on our summer league team. I know some people don’t like the kid but I think Gerald Green would be a nice fit. He has enough size to play the 2 and 3. He can hit the 3, knocks down his free throws, and we all know he is a finisher. He is still young and will be cheap. I think he would fit great in our up tempo offense. Certainly wont hurt giving him a chance. I mean seriously Mario West was on this team for a few years and all he brought was energy no skills what so ever….. Guys you can watch the interviews of the prospects on Hawks.com…… I think they had them doing some 1 on 1 work and some 3 on 3 work. Better than sitting in a empty gym playing against a chair. At least with some 1 on 1 stuff you can see if a guy will be able to defend or will be able to create his own shot.
silent choirboy
June 17th, 2010
3:22 pm
Bummed to hear that Crawford news. He’s the kind of guy I’d like to see us take a chance on, although I guess he could be Jamal Crawford-lite. But still, some scoring from that 3 position would be nice.
JEWELL ROLLEN
June 17th, 2010
3:22 pm
MOBOMAN…I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU….BASKETBALL IQ IS ALMOST NON EXISTENT! NEEDS TO STILL WORK ON EVERYTHING! THERE AT LEAST 15 OTHER GUYS IN THE DRAFT WHO ARE MUCH, MUCH BETTER.
MsDee
June 17th, 2010
3:23 pm
MC,
Why not bring Siler since he is a step higher than anybody we could get @24 and draft a PG/SG instead to back-up Teague/Bibby, since Bibby would be used more as a spot-up shooter than as a PG.
Tim Tebow's Tears
June 17th, 2010
3:23 pm
As a Tech fan my response is a clearcut NOOOOOOOO
JoJo the Godfather
June 17th, 2010
3:29 pm
MsDee, I’m with you. Greivis Vasquez or Dominique Jones at PG/SG, and bring in Siler and 2nd round pick Dexter Pittman for some size.
NOTSO FAST
June 17th, 2010
3:32 pm
WE NEED A CENTER. WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT WING SPAN THEY ARE JUST SAYING THAT HE IS NOT TALL ENOUGH TO PLAY BIG TIME CENTER.
O'Brien
June 17th, 2010
3:35 pm
GStateBen,
If I’m not mistaken, Solomon abai averaged 6 rebounds per game last year. It bothers me that a center with his size and ability averaged only 6 RPG.
MsDee,
You should check out Dexter Pittman from university of Texas. Just as big as siler, but player against better competition (siler player at Augusta state I think).
MC,
If the hawks don’t think those players will be there, I wonder what the hawks (mock) draft board looks like.
BigGTMike
June 17th, 2010
3:36 pm
Can’t dribble, can’t shoot. Not NBA talent.
All I'm Saying Is...
June 17th, 2010
3:39 pm
Hawks would be better off trading the pick and taking a risk on someones first rounder from last year that they’ve soured on….can you say Thabeet….
REALLY??
June 17th, 2010
3:41 pm
Not another Power forward bust for the hawks! What a joke the Hawks team and owners are……
Astro Joe
June 17th, 2010
3:43 pm
OB, their draft board probably reads like an NBDL All Star roster, because they seem to think that Othella Hunter is every bit as good as Trevor Booker.
Strickland, and those guys sure showed themselves well after breaking free of the noose, didn’t they?
Dukester9
June 17th, 2010
3:43 pm
Sign and trade Joe Johnson along with Marvin to the philly for Andre Igoudala and Sam Dalembert
MsDee
June 17th, 2010
3:46 pm
O’Brien,
I like Dexter Pittman as well..I’m with JoJo the Godfather on here..draft a PG/SG @24 and get Dexter Pittman 2nd round but bring Siler now to back-up to Horford/Zaza..I would let Siler and Dexter box-it-out together to see who deserves to be 1st back-up to Zaza or Horford if Zaza gets hurt or in foul trouble.
T.J.
June 17th, 2010
3:47 pm
Why does everyone think Lance Stephenson is a good fit for us but US? smh
MsDee
June 17th, 2010
3:49 pm
Those two would give us much size down low and could also give us 12 fouls on the Shaq’s and the D. Howards in the league.
MsDee
June 17th, 2010
3:54 pm
I actually like who NBADraft.net has us taking..Armon Johnson or Terrico White @24..nice size on both guys.
MC,
Do u have any news on Terrico White? I think he also tried-out for the team this week.
JoJo the Godfather
June 17th, 2010
3:55 pm
So, did this Sac/Philly deal mentioned earlier really go down? If it did, looks like Philly cleared $2.5M this year, but took on $10M+ for next year. Hawes doesn’t like to mix it up down low either. Hawes, Smith, Speights & Brand isn’t exactly a scary front line.
bigdave
June 17th, 2010
3:55 pm
not a lot of Lawal support i see. surprises me.
tough.. rebounds.. motor..
smh. we need toughness and heart.
he commits himself to increasing his free throw % and knocking down a 10 fter. he can be the 2nd coming of Paul Millsap or Kurt Thomas. guys that rebounded the basketball in college usually translate to the pro level.
True Hawks Fan
June 17th, 2010
4:04 pm
We already have Gani Lawal. His name is Josh Smith.
R.F
June 17th, 2010
4:04 pm
They need a true point guard. Mike Mercer (South Florida) would be great! He’s long and plays great defense and have a great footwork. Just need to work on his jumpshot. But I seen him play in a summer pro game this year and he was ready….
Delbert D.
June 17th, 2010
4:05 pm
Don’t bite on this one. Hawks don’t need another semi-big guy who’s not a shooter.
James
June 17th, 2010
4:06 pm
The Hawks dont need another Randolph Morris.Pass on this guy!
Big Man Harris
June 17th, 2010
4:07 pm
How are you gonna write/blog for the AJC sports, but not watch the teams in the local area? SMH…..
GT Alum
June 17th, 2010
4:11 pm
bigdave, I think the problem is he wasn’t a dominant guy when he was at Tech, he’s not all that big for a front court player, and there’s a big difference between being able to fight for position and rebounds in college and in the NBA. He’s going to be playing against bigger, stronger and more experienced players in the NBA than he did at Tech. He’s going to take a step backwards coming into the NBA. Maybe he’ll be able to be an effective NBA PF, but I don’t see him contributing much right away. And, as some people have stated, if you’re going to take a project, there are ones that would seem to have bigger upsides that should be available at that position.
GT Alum
June 17th, 2010
4:13 pm
I do have to agree with Big Man Harris, MC. If you’re talking Hawks basketball, the Tech and Georgia programs are going to come into the conversation not infrequently. It wouldn’t hurt to have some level of knowledge of the players.
Dubious
June 17th, 2010
4:16 pm
Ken, Get a grip! Woodson Gone-2010 face forward!
Eddie
June 17th, 2010
4:19 pm
I’d love to Alabi from FSU available
Dubious
June 17th, 2010
4:19 pm
You don’t get a center with the 24th pick. You might be able to get a center project , but that’s about it. Otherwise, there are wings and dirty work forwards. All the guys you could remotely call a center, that are worth bothering with, are likely gone by picks 15-20, much less #24.
On April 8, 2009, Teague announced that he planned to forgo his final two seasons at Wake Forest University and make himself available for the 2009 NBA Draft, where he was drafted 19th overall by the Atlanta Hawks.
Jose Gonzalez
June 17th, 2010
4:23 pm
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/06/16/closes-park-land-mexico-border-americans/
cdog
June 17th, 2010
4:27 pm
some of you are going to wish for mike woodson before its over.the hawks with their pick should be looking at either a pure shooter and scorer or a center that can contribute right away not a project
T.O
June 17th, 2010
4:27 pm
Lawal is nothing more than an 8th or 9th man on an NBA roster at the very best. Extremely active around the goal but he’s basically 6′8” and can’t play the perimeter. He doens’t have a good enough post game to play the 4 or 5 so he doesn’t really have a position. I’d say pass on this guy. Nothing special here. I bet he’ll be available in the 2nd rd.
JoJo the Godfather
June 17th, 2010
4:29 pm
For the Hawks to supposedly be looking for a center, they only scheduled workouts for two: Alabi & Orton, both of which are projected to go before we ever pick.
My guess is it’s SG/SF all the way at 24, and the best big left over in the 2nd round (Pittman, Zoubek, etc…).
Scout
June 17th, 2010
4:31 pm
They will regret passing up Born Ready. Joe is going to leave and if Drew is serious about ball movement then Born Ready can help facilitate that with proper coaching.
bigdave
June 17th, 2010
4:33 pm
GT Alum…
i guess it really depends on what your expectations are for a later 1st round pick. i agree, he wasnt dominant.. how much of that was due to Tech guards inability to give an entry pass.. the guy is excellent at establishing post position. ive said on this blog before that the Hawks dont have much quality depth. from a big i need someone who can rebound, finish, contest, and draw fouls. i think Gani has that package. what he lacks for in size he compensates for in girth and wingspan (7′2). im just thinking of comparable talent.. Leon Powe (Boston days).. Brandon Bass.. and @ best Paul Millsap who had comparable strengths and deficiencies :
PAUL MILLSAP
NBA Comparison: Malik Rose
Aran Smith – 3/5/2006
Strengths: Tremendous rebounder who gives great effort every time out … Long arms and good strength and leaping ability allow him to play bigger than his actual size … Crashes the boards extremely hard, especially on the offensive end … Has a real knack for anticipating boards, great reflexes … Offensive skills inside are good, has a decent mid range jump shot out to 12 feet … Good scorer, finisher, has good touch around the basket with contact … Has good agility, runs the floor well. Solid in transition … Explosive leaper … Solid defender, holds position well, doesn’t bite on fakes … Offensively creates a wide target inside and seals his man well …
Weaknesses: Listed at 6-8 but closer to 6-7, far below standard for an NBA power forward … His size is his biggest detriment … Lacks great passing ability … Doesn’t play a high caliber of opponent on a regular basis in the WAC … Free throw shooting is below average … A true power forward, lacks the foot speed to play the 3 position … Likely to struggle to get the same inside shots and rebounds against bigger and more athletic players on the next level …
Jon
June 17th, 2010
4:34 pm
Here’s a full list of the guys we are are working out.
Monday, June 14
Terrico White, Elliott Williams, Dominique Jones, Manny Harris
Tuesday, June 15
Darington Hobson, Stanley Robinson, Pape Sy
Wednesday, June 16
Mikhail Torrance, Jordan Crawford, Chris Kramer, J.T. Tiller, Pape Sy, Greivis Vasquez
Thursday, June 17
Gani Lawal, Charles Garcia
Friday, June 18
Devin Ebanks, Quincy Pondexter, Elijah Millsap, Kevin Palmer, Landon Milbourne
Saturday, June 19
Trevor Booker, Lazar Hayward, Tasmin Mitchell
Sunday, June 20
Craig Brackins, Derrick Caracter, Patrick Sullivan, Jarvis Varnardo
Tuesday, June 22
Ryan Richards, Latavious Williams, Solomon Alabi, Samardo Samuels, Tory Jackson, Joe Dukes
gt
June 17th, 2010
4:39 pm
I think there are 24 players better than Lawal in the ACC last year more less the draft this year. They kept trying to run the ball through him. Running the ball through Lawal instead of Favor cost us games. I also think a player with a work ethic can hit free throws. I think Hewitt was trying to make an example of how good things happen to people that stay. I also notice Lawal’s parents riding on the same team plane with the players. They were about the only parents on the plane as far as I could tell coming back from Chapel Hill. The Hawks to pair Josh Smith up with Lawal and really cash it in.
bigdave
June 17th, 2010
4:42 pm
good assessment here echoing some of the exact points i’ve made. (check around 8:08)
NBA 2010 Pre-Draft Training Camp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xg3B39fL7F8
bigdave
June 17th, 2010
4:45 pm
gt..
“They kept trying to run the ball through him. Running the ball through Lawal instead of Favor cost us games. ”
in that video i just linked those guys said the same thing…
GT Alum
June 17th, 2010
4:50 pm
Well, those are the guys who worked out. As you can read from the Millsap analysis, they had concerns about his ability to transition to the NBA too. Doesn’t mean he couldn’t, and it doesn’t mean Lawal can’t, but, as I said, it’s questionable how productive he will be in the NBA, especially in the short term. Once again, if you’re going to take a project, why not one who appears to have a bigger upside?
I’m not going to be upset if the Hawks do take him, but I just feel that he wouldn’t be the best use of that pick.
truthspitter
June 17th, 2010
4:55 pm
Hawks Draft Board Should Look Like This
Disclaimer: There were 14 players that fit this model of players that would bring a combination of length and athleticism to the Hawks that is better, the same, or so close to what they have with productive players that you should not be able to tell the difference if desire is there. 2 were left out those being Derrick Favors and John Walls for obvious reasons. Finally, Paul George, Eric Bledsoe, Quincy Pondextor, and Dexter Pittman did not get tested but they are of interest and may fit the build also.
1 Whiteside: Chad Ford has the guy as the #22 prospect doubt if it happens though
2 Ed Davis: Ford has him #10 prospect probably not happening
3 Craig Brackins: Ford has him as #21 prospect he is moving up boards but somewhat possible
4 Stanley Robinson: Ford has him #36 so it seems very possible.
5 Xavier Henry: Ford has him #8 not happening.
Explanation of top 5. During combine they all measured with a combination of length and athleticism that would add to our current roster plus they have all shown some ability in college.
Example: Whitesides combination of height and athleticism is better than Al’s. Ed Davis combination of height and athletic ability is better than Al’s. Craig Brackins combination of height and athletic ability is better than Al. None of them are on Josh’s level but they
surpass Al, that’s adding to the team.
Example: Xavier Henry’s combination of size and athletic ability is the same as Joe Johnson measured when he was coming out of college. That would be adding but I doubt if it happens.
Example: Stanley Robinson’s combination of height and athletic ability trumphs Marvin and would be second to only Josh on our team and he plays the same position as Marvin with legit size unlike Mo Evans and he would be cheaper than J Chillz coming back.
6 Luke Babbitt: Combination of length and athletic ability very similar to Marvin’s but a deadly stroke. Ranked #9 by Ford
7 Al Farouq: Combination of length and athletic ability same as Babbitt and similar to Marvin’s but he is more polished than Marvin was coming out of college. Ranked # 7 by Ford.
8 Jarvis Varnado: Combination of length and athletic ability very similar to Al and he has a love for defense something I can’t say about any other player that should be on Hawks radar. Ranked # 38 by Ford.
9. Trevor Booker: Combination of length and athletic ability same as Varnado and similar to Al he can do a little of everything as shown at Clemson. Ranked #48 by Ford
10. Terrico White: Combination of length and athletic ability very similar to Joe when he was coming out of college. Ranked #30 by Ford.
11. Armon Johnson: has a better combination of length and athletic ability than Teague but we don’t need another PG with 3 on the roster. Ranked #31 by Ford.
12. Mikhail Torrance: Same as Teague when it comes to combination of athletic ability and length. Ford does not have him in top 45.
Final analysis: Hawks really need to get Whiteside in for a individual workout he could be there for them as the guy that would add more to there team than anyone and he is not even scheduled for a workout.
bigdave
June 17th, 2010
4:55 pm
MC…
heard any rumblings on who coach Drew might be contacting or who might be contacting him on the assistant front?
bigdave
June 17th, 2010
5:02 pm
GT Alum…
agreed.. im just not a fan of this draft. im just not a fan of this draft after the first 10 picks. crap shoot.
GeeMack
June 17th, 2010
5:04 pm
It’s amazing that the Lakers are playing for their 3 straight NBA title the Atlanta Hawks have never been past the 2nd round.
Over the last 10 years the Laker are in their 7th trip to the finals and the Hawks can’t get past the 2nd round.
Boston was a lottery team 4years ago. Just like the Hawks. Now they are playing game 7 in their 2nd finals apperance in 3 yrs, and the Hawks can’t get past the 2nd rd.
Something is wrong with that picture.
Sautee
June 17th, 2010
5:05 pm
GT Alum,
Sorry if I seemed accusatory earlier. And of course your second post was just before mine, so I knew then where you were coming from, but I was leaving the house for a few hours.
I sincerely hope you are wrong about finding a contributor at #24.
Dukester9
June 17th, 2010
5:07 pm
o well never mind on the trade of Joe Johnson and Marvin to philly for Andre Iguodala and Sam Dalembert. Dalembert has been traded to Sacramento. O well good luck Hawks. But I tell you defense wins championships and defense starts inside out. not outside in. Keep playing around with Al Horford at center and we will be a 45-55 win team and out in the 2nd round. Peace
drmaryb
June 17th, 2010
5:07 pm
Stoudamire
In Miami working out?
Bish
Laker’s looking to make a deal for him?
Tayshaun
Sacramento making a move to pick him up?
Hawks! What are we looking to do?
ReddJonn68
June 17th, 2010
5:09 pm
We do not know what is gonna come out of this draft in the low post position. There is a young player that is gonna fool everyone including the scouts, but will it be coaching or the perfect team. All we can do now is look at potential & work ethic. Daniel Orton is going to be a bust, so taking a chance on Lawal is not rolling the dice. The NBA needs to start considering letting anyone whoever wants 2 go pro out of high school no matter age, do a year in the NDBL. This one and done is fine if you are skilled enough to overcome your flaws, but like MLB the NBA is the REAL DEAL. Make fundementals a part of the game again by having a true farm system. Boston is gonna miss Perkins but the stuff that kid learned under Doc is gonna save his career. Why not Lawal or anyone, instead of a Big Name Bust !!! ala Sheldon Williams, Doc may yet get something out of him. We need any help down low, any live, young, physical body down low will make us stronger.
Mystikal
June 17th, 2010
5:19 pm
MC,
Minnesota has many needs and already has many young players. What do you think about us trading Chillz and our pick to them for their 2 latter first rounders? Is that just complete wishful thinking or does it have some merit?
GT Alum
June 17th, 2010
5:25 pm
GeeMack, you’ve kind of got to throw Boston out when making comparisons of team’s rising to success. Without McHale giving them Garnett with a big bow on him, Boston likely isn’t in the position they are now.
Not to say that Boston has made some better decisions than the Hawks, particularly with regard to the PG position and getting Allen as a (usually) lethal shooter. As much as Gearon talks about not taking on bad contracts, I don’t know that I consider the contracts we gave Bibby, Marvin and ZaZa last year good contracts. They are definitely limiting what we can do this offseason.
Ramon
June 17th, 2010
5:29 pm
Drmaryb, with BK we used to hear trade rumors here and there, rather they materialized or not (remember the Amare for #3 pick, which ended up being Al–glad we didn’t do that one lol). But with Sund we never hear ANY rumors about the Hawks. Either he keeps all his dealings g-14 classified, or he doesn’t do anything about dealings lol. Either way this way is boring lol. It probably takes Sund an hour to cook minute rice.
GTgreg
June 17th, 2010
5:30 pm
As a GT season ticket holder, I’ve seen Lawal play at least 2 dozen times live, not to mention on TV other times. My analysis: No thanks. He is a prototypical college ball player, but no chance in the NBA. No ball-handling skills, slow feet, lack of any kind of jump shot or even free-throws, and not big enough for the pounding he’d need to take to overcome the aforementioned (lack of) skills.
Also, MC you say you’re “more of a Big East guy”?? Aren’t you a sports journalist? Shouldn’t you be watching other conferences as well if you want to speak intelligently on the Hawks potential future players and/or opponents? Don’t write about the draft if you aren’t interested in college basketball– all of it.
GT Alum
June 17th, 2010
5:31 pm
Mystikal, I don’t know if Minnesota would do that, but I am struggling to find a reason why Chillz would want to go there. Maybe he’s somewhat cornered into leaving Greece, but I have a feeling that he’ll want to sign off on where he’s going before he makes that announcement.
ReddJonn68
June 17th, 2010
5:31 pm
GT Alum wake up, Doc is a preimeir Coach !!!! They were not suppose to be here.
Mystikal
June 17th, 2010
5:32 pm
If we could manage to get Minnesota’s latter 2 picks, I’d take two bigs. @ 16 I’d take Whiteside or Sanders and @ 23 i’d take alabi or J Jordan. Wishful thinking sure, but compared to what actually happens….
Delbert D.
June 17th, 2010
5:33 pm
“I think the problem is he wasn’t a dominant guy when he was at Tech, he’s not all that big for a front court player, and there’s a big difference between being able to fight for position and rebounds in college and in the NBA.”
That was from GT Alum’s post on Lawal, but it applies also to the most recent Tech one and done. Projected top 5. Emphasize the “Project” in projected.
GT Alum
June 17th, 2010
5:42 pm
Redd, Orlando didn’t make it all the way under Doc. I doubt Boston does either without Garnett.
ReddJonn68
June 17th, 2010
5:52 pm
GT Alum can you really blame Doc for Orlando falures ? Can you say choke !!
Big Ray
June 17th, 2010
5:54 pm
GT Alum ,
I’ll say this for Gani Lawal. He has a motor, work ethic, and gets after it on the glass. And, he cares about defense most of the time. Good enough for me, but it will take some work and some time.
On the flip side of the coin, no point in picking that type of player if we’re going to do with him what we did with Othella Hunter and Solomon Jones (ignore them to the point of wastefulness).
If we’re staring at another project PF who can’t contribute by playing hard (and effective) on the glass, and on defense…then get a worthy wing player. There will be more than one who can put the ball in the hole and fill the wing on the break. No sense in ignoring a DeRozan, Thornton, or other wing player that can get you some points.
Besides, if you can’t fill a need, you are down to pure asset management . Young wing players who need little more than some tweaking and polishing in a few areas are much more useful (and valuable) as assets than big men who need building.
For every DeJuan Blair, there is a half dozen Patrick O’Bryants. For every Amir Johnson, there is a dozen no name bigs who won’t do anything but eat up salary and a bench seat. If you draft a DeMar DeRozan or a Marcus Thornton, they’ll get you more in trade packages than a Jackson Vroman will. Any day.
Those clamoring for us to draft a center are out of touch with reality. Any guy even remotely close to being thought of as a possibly credible center will be snapped up long before we can get to them. That would include Hassan Whitehead and Solomon Alabi, both of whom are raw projects that probably aren’t any further along than Hasheem Thabeet was when he was drafted. He went third overall and spent the year in the D-League, in case you don’t get what I’m trying to say.
Centers will come via free agency. Power forwards may be available in the draft, but after all the whining about Horford being a natural PF, I’m surprised there is any mention of getting one in the draft.
GT Alum
June 17th, 2010
5:56 pm
Lots of people did. I’m not saying Doc isn’t a good coach. I’m just saying don’t underestimate the impact KG has had on that team, and getting KG was more luck than skill for Ainge.
It also says something that they didn’t make it to the Finals last year when KG was out.
GT Alum
June 17th, 2010
5:59 pm
Thanks for expounding, Big Ray. I honestly think we’re on pretty much the same page. I just wanted to hear what you thought in a little more depth.
Big Ray
June 17th, 2010
6:04 pm
Also, Gani Lawal would have looked better if he wasn’t playing next to Derrick Favors. The fact that he still produced on the boards and scored some points in spite of this is encouraging. But yes, he is a raw product. How raw? Couldn’t tell you.
Mystikal
June 17th, 2010
6:06 pm
When Drew bings his new staff in, I hope he brings his own talent scout.
Big Ray
June 17th, 2010
6:11 pm
GT Alum ,
I’m like you: make the best you can out of the pick if the opportunity to fill a more glaring need is not there. And I’m not sure Lawal meets our needs enough to justify passing over some of the 2s and 3s that could be available when we pick.
O'Brien
June 17th, 2010
6:12 pm
Ray,
To be fair to Lawal too, the PGs were unable to get him the ball. And Paul Hewitt did not know how to utilize both lawal and favors.
Like I said, if lawal is #5 on the hawks wish list, then I’m okay with that. But he should not be top 3
Woodson part II (the sequel)
June 17th, 2010
6:14 pm
drmaryb
June 17th, 2010
5:07 pm
Stoudamire
In Miami working out?
Bosh
Laker’s looking to make a deal for him?
Tayshaun
Sacramento making a move to pick him up?
Hawks! What are we looking to do?
SORRY drmaryb that was so on point I had to say it again. Really illustrates how truly timid we are about pursuing a title. I remember Jamal Anderson (dirty birds) saying how you cant tip toe through the line but you have burst through with impact if you mean business.
Blue Ray! Thats why they pay you the big bucks! You pay attention to details. I have to ask my self why would a team thats needs a center but is heavy at PF be looking to (maybe) draft a rookie PF when between Smoove, Al, and Joe smith are much better than serviceable. Yea, I agree no need in looking for an impact center after the lottery pick really. There are centers who play like a center and can defend the rack in the NBA that could be traded for or acquired through other means.
Ill just say that although I think Sund has made idiotic move lately, He could bale himself out with an assertive center.- just my 2 cents
Woodson part II (the sequel)
June 17th, 2010
6:16 pm
*bail
Michael Cunningham
June 17th, 2010
6:17 pm
@ Big Man Harris: “How are you gonna write/blog for the AJC sports, but not watch the teams in the local area? SMH…..”
that’s easy: because i cover the Hawks, not Ga Tech. believe it or not, this gig doesn’t leave a whole lot of time to follow non-NBA teams in depth. and i didn’t say i’ve never watched Tech, just said i hadn’t seen enough of Lawal to give an informed opinion about his NBA prospects.
Michael Cunningham
June 17th, 2010
6:19 pm
@ GT Alum: “I do have to agree with Big Man Harris, MC. If you’re talking Hawks basketball, the Tech and Georgia programs are going to come into the conversation not infrequently.”
really? how so? because when i talk to Hawks people, they aren’t talking about Tech and Ga frequently. they talk about the NBA a lot, though.
cp
June 17th, 2010
6:20 pm
We should just take the best talent on the board at 24 regardless of position. As much as teams love and need size, if a guy is there at 24 there is probably something wrong. Good bigs don’t last that long. A lot of people keep screaming for the kid from FSU but did you guys look at his rebounding numbers? If a guy with that size and length is that poor of a rebounder on the college level I doubt he improves in the NBA. Take the best player left on the board and go from there.
Michael Cunningham
June 17th, 2010
6:20 pm
@ MsDee: “Do u have any news on Terrico White? I think he also tried-out for the team this week.”
correct, he was in for a workout on Monday. didn’t hear anything from Hawks people about how he looked.
Michael Cunningham
June 17th, 2010
6:30 pm
@ MsDee: “Why not bring Siler since he is a step higher than anybody we could get @24 and draft a PG/SG instead to back-up Teague/Bibby, since Bibby would be used more as a spot-up shooter than as a PG.”
is Siler really a step higher? the way the Hawks are talking they don’t think they can get a rotation guy at No. 24. they’ve talked more about the D-league than that.
Michael Cunningham
June 17th, 2010
6:31 pm
@O’Brien: “If the hawks don’t think those players will be there, I wonder what the hawks (mock) draft board looks like.”
me too, haha. as you know that isn’t the kind of info they are eager to make public but i’ll keep snooping around.
GT Alum
June 17th, 2010
6:32 pm
Because the Hawks are probably more likely to look at prospects from those schools than they are at prospects from other schools who have the same kind of value. Also, because the people on the blog are more likely to ask about them than someone from Marquette or Illinois or wherever. I think you get that, because you did write this with the whole Hawks looking at a local talent angle.
Also, no need to get so defensive. If you write a blog where you have a back and forth with fans, people are going to disagree with you and criticize you. It’s part of the territory. Just ask some of your blogging colleagues. I think Mark and Jeff get roundly criticized at least once a day.
Michael Cunningham
June 17th, 2010
6:34 pm
@ bigdave: “heard any rumblings on who coach Drew might be contacting or who might be contacting him on the assistant front?”
judging by the way LD’s phone rings every 10 seconds, it seems every coach he knows without a gig is contacting him. i keep pressing LD on this issue but i honestly think he hasn’t narrowed it down yet. he’s focused on free agency and the draft.
Michael Cunningham
June 17th, 2010
6:37 pm
@Mystikal: “Minnesota has many needs and already has many young players. What do you think about us trading Chillz and our pick to them for their 2 latter first rounders? Is that just complete wishful thinking or does it have some merit?”
would have to be a sign-and-trade with Chillz, which means he and Minnesota have to agree to a deal and Atlanta and Minnesota have to agree on trade. in your scenario, salaries wouldn’t match since draft picks have value of $0 for trade matching purposes: http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q73
drmaryb
June 17th, 2010
6:37 pm
Ramon
Hoopshype indicates Amare is all but gone in Phoenix. Sterr Kerr was the gentle negotiator there.
He is still being blamed for bringing SHAQ to the Suns. Even though he reversed the error by sending him to the Cavs, but they lost valuable Time & Money on the bad deal and set the franchise backwards!
Because the Suns made an extra 10.8 Million off the Lakers series, Kerr wanted to reward everyone in the building with a raise, from the Asst. Coaches down to the receptionist and cleaning crew.
All the while, the owner wanted Kerr to take an allegedly 6 figure pay cut himself!
Thaþ leads up to Stoudamire Looking for a 130 Million Dollar Max contract after a so-so play off series exit in the semis!
Do you think Ama®e is worth Max-Money for 23 pts & 9 rebs …but no real defense in the paint?
Word is, The Suns are near broke too! And, are really tightening the purse strings!
Kerr was thought to be too big of a spender with their monies.
Here’s my point! There are going to be a lot of UFA’s NOT named LeBron & Wade who soon find out:
Teams will NOT be throwing money around unless there is a substantial and complete player sitting on the
Side of that table. The G4 Summit better get their money and NOT try to bring their friends to the table with any kind of group singing deals! Two Max-Players in their primes ain’t gonna happen in this market place.
It’s not being cheap! Thats keepin’ it Real! Realistic in a troubled financial market place.
You see players like Tyson Chandler & Dirk opting out of the one year left to secure longer deals for the uncertain future!
Joe will NEVER see 4 & 60 Million ever again, here or anywhere else!
Kudos to Maurice Evans for grabbing the one Hawk in the hand rather than the two Hawks in the bush! Smart and Wise young man!
Michael Cunningham
June 17th, 2010
6:43 pm
@Gtgreg: “MC you say you’re “more of a Big East guy”?? Aren’t you a sports journalist? Shouldn’t you be watching other conferences as well if you want to speak intelligently on the Hawks potential future players and/or opponents? Don’t write about the draft if you aren’t interested in college basketball– all of it.”
haha . . . man, some of you Ga Tech people sure are sensitive.
greg, that was just a sly reference to me being a Louisville alum. i watch more than the Big East but i spend most of my time watching the NBA because, you know, i cover the NBA.
listen, anyone who tells you they follow both college and NBA closely is most likely a scout (actually, most of them follow one or the other) or lying. consider that when i called Rick Sund to talk about draft prospects, he passed me off to Dave Pendergraft because that’s more his area. when i covered the Heat, asst GM Randy Pfund, not Pat Riley, was the guy to talk to about the draft.
my job is to cover the Hawks and NBA, not college basketball. when it comes time for the draft, i talk to people who know more about these players than me. that is what a “sports journalist” does. geesh . . .
Michael Cunningham
June 17th, 2010
6:50 pm
@ GT Alum: “Because the Hawks are probably more likely to look at prospects from those schools than they are at prospects from other schools who have the same kind of value. Also, because the people on the blog are more likely to ask about them than someone from Marquette or Illinois or wherever.”
i agree with the latter, not the former. the Hawks, like any team, look at prospects across the country. besides, as someone joked at Philips today, the Hawks already had two Ga Tech guys and they won 13 games, so now there’s a limit, haha
“I think you get that, because you did write this with the whole Hawks looking at a local talent angle.”
actually, i wrote it with the “here is a guy the Hawks are considering drafting” angle. it’s just a happy coincidence that he’s local. now, if it were a feature story, you’d be correct.
“Also, no need to get so defensive. If you write a blog where you have a back and forth with fans, people are going to disagree with you and criticize you. It’s part of the territory. Just ask some of your blogging colleagues. I think Mark and Jeff get roundly criticized at least once a day.”
i’m not being defensive at all. if you are a regular blog reader you know i welcome the scrutiny and back-and-forth. doesn’t mean i’m not going to crack back when called out, haha. so consider this the “back” on your “forth” it’s nothing personal . . .
drmaryb
June 17th, 2010
6:52 pm
Woodson Part II
I know! We are NEVER in the conversations? That was a fake psuedo attempt to even pretend we could get the Alien from the Cavs for the play offs! Truly for entertainment purposes only, if I ever saw one.
All these players that move around for little in return makes me cringe!
Gasol
Jamison
Heyward
Butler
Donkey
And it just don’t stop!
We could get a double wide trailer like Shrek at 6′9″ to back up Al at center (see Boston), a wide
Strong agile body! (See Charles Barkley in his day). All a center has to do is rebound and play strong defense. He doesn’t even have to block shots nor score – really.
drmaryb
June 17th, 2010
7:06 pm
MC
Ate you baby-sitting and coddling the kids again. I guess, they didn’t get enough hugs when they were growing up?
ROF. Thanks for keeping the hot topics rolling, rolling, rolling! It’s a Draft Party people! Let’s not get too excited – Lady GaGa is not walking through that door!
Michael Cunningham
June 17th, 2010
7:17 pm
@ drmaryb: “Ate you baby-sitting and coddling the kids again. I guess, they didn’t get enough hugs when they were growing up?”
haha . . . it’s all love on my end. i don’t fault GaTech peeps for being passionate– gawd knows i love my Cardinals. i guess i could cover college basketball, too, and please everyone but then i’d have no life. or, at least even less of a life than i already have.
Grandad
June 17th, 2010
7:31 pm
Samuel:
I just got back.
& I don’t really care how cool you are with KS.
I finished reading the posts from the last blog & scrolled
straight to here w/o even reading the article.
“You sir & The other heathen (D.of U.I.):
are a giant HOLE surrounded by ASS.”
Sautee
June 17th, 2010
8:16 pm
Mystikal,
Minnesota doesn’t NEED Chills as long as they have Corey Brewer playing the same role.
JeJe
June 17th, 2010
8:25 pm
IS IT TOO MUCH TO ASK LARRY DREW TO MOVE HIS FAMILY OUT TO ATLANTA? WHY STAY IN CALIFORNIA IF YOU HAVE BEEN IN ATLANTA FOR 6 YEARS?
Grandad
June 17th, 2010
8:37 pm
On Gani Lawal:
He seems to be a great kid.
Switching directions:
Did Pendergraph have anything to do with drafting Sherwin Williams?
Oh, what, okay then Sheldon.
Pendercraph, [typo intended] either has a bad attitude
or he’s lazy or he don’t give a pender-crap
or he doesn’t have a clue.
Sautee, KS, AJ, O’B, Truthspitter, Big Ray, bigdave, Najeh, et al,
have more passion for his job it seems than does he.
(my apologies to Mary Ellen, Hatter, vava, Ramon, & many others)
who have just as much passion but I cannot type fast enough or
readily remember everyone’s name.
GL would be a fine choice to be in a list of 5 for our 2nd pick.
I will not subject the young man to listing sub-standard #’s
to justify my position that he not 1st round material.
Once again he appears to be a great kid.
D.Pendergraph, leaves me skaking my head & dreading the draft.
Perhaps as some have stated – propaganda has begun
to auction off the pick for cash. Attempting to lead us to
believe there is no talent available @ 24.
Truthspitter – coming shortly – I will attemt to counter
your “elite 14″ that may or may not be available @ # 24.
Not to argue but rather to enhance, somewhat, maybe, perhaps,
sort of, you know, friendly.
Grandad
June 17th, 2010
8:42 pm
* “skaking – Portuguese for shaking.” *
Samuel
June 17th, 2010
8:42 pm
No comment
northcyde
June 17th, 2010
9:08 pm
Sund and Coach Drew MUST address the defense. Because it wasn’t the offense that lost a lot of games for us ( including in the playoffs ). It was the DEFENSE. And simply focusing on the offensive side of the ball, but neglecting what we need to do defensively, will see us no better off than we were this year.
Defensive 4 factors for the Hawks this season: ( you can find this on Basketball-reference.com Click on Summary when viewing the 2009 – 10 NBA season, and it will bring up all of the team stats )
defensive eFG% – .496 ( 16th )
. . . the league average was .501 . . . Here’s something that’s interesting. Of the 16 playoff teams, we had the 15th worst ( next to last ) eFG% on defense. Only Portland at .502, was worse. Two other teams ( Dallas and Denver ), posted .495 eFG%. All 3 of the Western confernce teams lost in the 1st round, and we had to go 7 games with Milwaukee, in those games in which we couldn’t stop them.
turnover % – .132 ( tied 18th )
. . . we didn’t cause a lot of turnovers as a defense. When we did force a turnover, we were off to the races. When we didn’t, the game got real difficult for us because we couldn’t run in transition. Let’s see if Teague can make his presence known in this area by generating turnovers off of steals.
defensive rebound% – .727 ( 24th )
. . . this was the KILLER folks. And a member on Hawksquawk noticed this as early as December. As the Hawks got worse and worse rebounding the other teams misses, we saw this team come back down to earth from that outstanding start. I remember this stat being as low as 26th in the league at one time. The commitment and flat out laziness that was shown in rebounding the basketball, is something that Drew needs to address IMMEDIATELY. And unfortunately, Josh Smith and Marvin Williams were the culprits a lot of times. 2nd chance points KILLED this team.
free throws to field goal attempts ratio: .208 ( tied 7th )
. . . I don’t know if this is good or bad. I guess it’s good, because we didn’t give people cheap points all the time by fouling them. But then again, we should’ve. If someone comes into the lane . . put them on their butts and send them to the free throw line. If we’re not going to block a shot, make them feel it when they come into the lane.
Address the DEFENSE Rick Sund. If you go offense in the draft, you better go DEFENSE in free agency.
i_am_soulstar
June 17th, 2010
9:18 pm
Very few incidents where quality bigs were acquired after the #24 pick and cracked the rotation immediately. These guys listed below were the few cases (in my opinion) of quality bigs being selected late in the draft. And keep in mind, many of them didn’t become impact players until their 2nd or 3rd year (current rookies excluded obviously).
2004
Anderson Varejao #31
Trevor Ariza #44
2005
Linas Kleiza #27
David Lee #30
Andray Blatche #49
Marcin Gortat #57
2006
Paul Milsap #47
2007
Tiago Splitter #28 ( drafted by Spurs, not yet in NBA, but considered the best center in Europe)
Carl Landry #31
Glen Davis #35
Marc Gasol #48
2009
Taj Gibson #26
Dejuan Blair #37
Jody
June 17th, 2010
9:19 pm
Watching game 7, it’s pretty clear how important it is to be able to compete inside because when all the marbles are on the line, that’s where the game is going to be won or lost. In these finals, the team that has won the battle of the boards has been the victor every time. The Hawks can talk about offensive systems all they want, if they don’t make this team better inside defensively and on the boards, it’s not going to matter.
Jody
June 17th, 2010
9:21 pm
The Lakers have nine offensive rebounds already! Kendrick Perkins loss is really going to hurt the Celtics.
Jody
June 17th, 2010
9:25 pm
i_am_soulstar,
I think that’s quite an encouraging list if you’re the Hawks. If the Hawks can find a quality Big man at 24, even if it takes a year or two before the guy is ready, that’s the way they need to go.
drmaryb
June 17th, 2010
9:29 pm
Grand-Daddy
Get ‘Em! I knew you were gonna have a “Samu-Wich” for an early night snack! You will need something
100 Proof to wash that ISH down!
I tried to eat one earlier but, it gave me an awful case if diarrhea. Uuggh!
Please google: Optimal Life Chiropractic, Woodstock,Ga. & we’ll talk.
Grandad
June 17th, 2010
9:31 pm
Samuel:
Your “no comment” was a touch of class.
So much so, that – I am ashamed.
I went against everything I stand for by lowering myself;
and attackig you.
For that, I’m truly sorry.
I was enraged, and lashed out.
My apologies are to you and I will seek fogiveness
from the most appropriate source.
Please, and in the future, I look forward to spirited
debate with you and others on the blog.
Get well soon – my good friend ‘ken’.
Grandad
June 17th, 2010
9:34 pm
Mary Ellen:
Tommorow, darlin’.
Sautee
June 17th, 2010
9:39 pm
Grandad,
Wander over to Big Ray’s blog. I’ll have a message for you there.
HoosierHawk
June 17th, 2010
9:45 pm
I initially thought we didn’t need any undersized PFs. But unless we are re-signing Randmo, J. Collins, or Joe Smith (which would not exactly excite anyone), we don’t really have any backup forwards without Chills, since Mo is really best at SG.
Undersized guys can crack the rotation. No one wanted Dejuan Blair til late 2nd round and he is a beast.
I like Robinson from UConn. Guy has intensity of a winner and is really athletic.
If we don’t get Joe back, we should try our luck with a guard like Vasquez.
northcyde
June 17th, 2010
10:07 pm
Jody . . people get obsessed with offense when it breaks down. But it’s almost like they don’t even notice the defense when it breaks down as well.
The reason why the Hawks can’t seem to post a .500 or better record on the road, is because we’re just an average defense that has the capability to be below average at any given time.
And when you talk about “bigs”, you simply just can’t add big bodies. You have to add big people who are WILLING TO BATTLE.
That’s one of our biggest weaknesses on our team. Outside of Horford, and on rare occasions Zaza and Smoove, we don’t have enough guys who are willing to battle on a nightly basis. That’s why I loved Dejuan Blair. That dude was willing to battle at all costs.
The Hawks need a talent upgrade, but they need a few “heart transplants” as well.
Blast
June 17th, 2010
10:09 pm
Glad to see Scalabrine in the game for Celtics.
Woodson part II (the sequel)
June 17th, 2010
10:15 pm
drmaryb
June 17th, 2010
6:37 pm
Well I cant just highlight one of your post they are all on fire! Preach preacher lady! I Co-Sign yo shyytt all day. In fact I do wish you would lead a blog.
To me today is a banner day with blue ribbons jumping off! Blue Ray popping flavor, Grandad spittin game. Northcyde putting you in check!
Damn thats what Im talk about bring yo A game! Im just sitting here enjoying the ride. No fake ajc editorial or opinion columns masquerading as a feature story, no hate-in on a coach who’s no longer here… just keeping it real.
Bimm!
I hope the owners and managers got their ears on cuz we aint co-signing their bull shyytt!@! and aint buying it either1
drmaryb
June 17th, 2010
10:33 pm
Woodson Part II (The Sequel)
Thank You!
Man, I’m just trying to hang with the big dogs – I don’t want to stay on the porch and piss with
the puppies!
Well, 24 minutes left in the season – Go East! Bring us home & make us PROUD!
northcyde
June 17th, 2010
10:36 pm
I mean, even in tonight’s game, you CLEARLY see who came to battle tonight . . . and who didn’t. If the Lakers lose this game, they’ll have to trade Lamar Odom for anything . . even a pack of Now Laters. How do you NOT show up tonight?
Meanwhile, Big Baby Davis is 20 mins away from becoming a Celtic legend in the mold of Bill Walton and Jerry Sichsting. Way to show up ( so far ) Big Biby.
SMh @ Lamar. Stop being so (( bleepin )) soft!!
Samuel
June 17th, 2010
10:39 pm
Every year around this time when we’re talking roster and FAs I always bring up one of the best overall and under rated big men of all time so here goes. How about getting “MY BOY” Sheed in here to give Al a break at times at the 5 or even start. If you know anything about the game you can see tonight how good a player he is.
Jody
June 17th, 2010
10:39 pm
northcyde,
I agree with you completely, especially the point about adding bigs who actually want to battle and have the ability to defend. And your also right about people getting obsessed with offensive stats. If you look at the Celtics bigs, non of those guys are 20 pt. per game players. But, they can defend and rebound and that’s what really matters.
drmaryb
June 17th, 2010
10:45 pm
Lamar
Instead of trying to, “Keep up with them DYSFUNTIONAL Kardashians!”
You better try to, ‘keep up with them PROUD Celtics!”
drmaryb
June 17th, 2010
10:49 pm
Ignore him!
Ramon
June 17th, 2010
10:53 pm
Did anyone see Lamar Odum get back slow on defense because he was arguing with the refs? Has anyone seen Ray Allen and Paul Pierce do it tonight? Because I have. I’m sure their fans won’t be saying send them away on a row boat with a sign marked ‘CAST AWAY’ like some of you want Sund to do with Josh.
HoosierHawk
June 17th, 2010
10:57 pm
No one talks about Ebanks. If we can’t get Childress, I’d like to see Ebanks challenge Marvin. I want to see more out of Marvin or find an eventual replacement.
Mike is back
June 17th, 2010
10:59 pm
MC, I think if Stanley Roberts falls to us at 24th…he would be a good selection at that pick.
drmaryb
June 17th, 2010
11:00 pm
Ignore him.
Mike is back
June 17th, 2010
11:05 pm
HoosierHawk, missed you post…Yeah, Robinson is the way…kid got sick hooooops!!
what they are really saying
June 17th, 2010
11:15 pm
Horford is a back up center if that.
northcyde
June 17th, 2010
11:18 pm
Lamar must have heard me. He played a dang good 3rd quarter. LOL @ how tense this game is. No way the Hawks are prepared to play in a game like this. I hope eac and every one of them are watching this game tonight.
N-Trigue
June 17th, 2010
11:22 pm
I wouldn’t have a problem with Gani Lawal in a hawks uniform eventhogh I hope Whiteside falls to us. Lawal I think is better then yall think Hewitt did not know how to use him properly with favors along with poor pg play. I think he would be good coming off the bench with the second unit. And his game will definitely increase each year especially if he hits the weight room hard. With the 2nd pick I say we try and get a shooter or pg. Then let’s try and pick up someone like Tyson Chandler at center and well be straight! MC is there any chance that we go after Tyson Chandler?
doc
June 17th, 2010
11:24 pm
gt alum, what is your problem? i am a native atlantan, one of my retired alias’ was golden tornado because my grandfather played for heisman and in the cumberland game and i grew up on the sidelines at ga tech, so my roots are deep with the old gold. with that said, i hope our hawks are not spending more time at tech games because if they are, they are wasting time. uga is not even part of the discussion when it comes to beating the bushes for potential nba ballers but fox may change that, so why do you even bring them into the discussion?
though i think tech has talent it has not been a program to make winners and i really dont want one of them here unless it is jarrett jack. back off man, this is an nba blog not a ga state college blog. if you want to talk some trash go find a bulldog on one of those blogs and argue to your hearts content about college ball. too funny, i cant think of one uga basketball player coming into any discussion on this blog for the six years i have been here. so, for that matter, dont be so offensive or ignorant. ha!, to the idea we are going to start playing with ourselves over any ga state players that arent in the nba. we are much more universal and sophisticated than that. if you listen to some of these guys who are very aware of players on the national scene not local. sec players are barely part of any discussion regarding the draft.
dr mb you called it babe, these guys want to talk baby league stuff. irrelevant is the game of college basketball anyway, no continuity. it is like double a baseball without any connection to player, only old memories of what it used to be like, college kids paining their chests and faces and alums who show their success buy the number of seats they bought and where. yeah MC, even your cards are irrelevant unless they get a temp to carry the cardinal.
MC if you ever go to one of those college blogs, they are very contentious. it is kind of like during the playoffs when there is the occasional 3rd grader coming over to our blog to try and pester someone into saying mine is bigger than yours. sadly, those guys do it day after day and like peter pan they never grow up. sorry these “gt” boys are embarrassing me as a long time tech fan.
doc
June 17th, 2010
11:26 pm
this seventh game reminds me of a good heavyweight fight going into the fourteenth round. it is not about physical ability now. it is will, reaction and muscle memory.
drmaryb
June 17th, 2010
11:32 pm
STREET BALL!
The Refs are INVISIBLE!
JSS
June 17th, 2010
11:40 pm
Damn!!! When did Pau Gasol turn into Josh Smith at the free throw line?
Mike is back
June 17th, 2010
11:45 pm
Doc, you called it…they are leaving it all on the floor. Like LD said…hope our guys are watching.
JSS
June 17th, 2010
11:46 pm
People throwing haymakers!!!
JSS
June 17th, 2010
11:59 pm
“I want to thank you psychiatrist!” Ha ha!!!
Rondo
June 18th, 2010
12:02 am
nnooooooooooooooooooo!!
F the Hawks!!!!!
June 18th, 2010
12:03 am
Dalembert just got traded! I don’t want to hear no more about there not being enough big men in the league because some teams seem to just go out and get them. What the hell are the Hawks doing? Not a damn thing! Portland loses Oden for the season and what do they do? They just go out and trade for Camby thats all. But theres no big men in the NBA. Dalembert gets traded and what do the Hawks do? Not a damn thing. But theres no big men in the NBA, right? And then the Hawks have the nerve to tell the fans to spend more money? Are you serious?
F the Hawks!!!!!
June 18th, 2010
12:04 am
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5297829
♥Mz. Hawkdafied♥
June 18th, 2010
12:05 am
I just love the passion of the Laker fans for their team. Booing the heck out of the Celtics. LOL!
Wabe
June 18th, 2010
12:06 am
I’m not so hot about Lawal.
He was a Top 5 recruit coming out of Norcross High, but didn’t really leave his imprint on the college game. I’m not sure why, I just see another Shelden Williams all over again…
In other news, the Lakers just won another title…
GHunt
June 18th, 2010
12:11 am
Siler is a better fit than anyone we can get at 24. In the draft, take a perimeter shooter who may be a project type. With game experience, Siler will be an excellent low post player.
Woody was too insecure in the job to work on developing talent.
Hawks Like Lawal | Soaring Down South | An Atlanta Hawks blog
June 18th, 2010
12:26 am
[...] Hawks with the 24th pick of the first round? According to Michael Cunningham over at the AJC, Lawal is one of five players the Hawks are considering with the 24th pick in the first [...]
Melvin
June 18th, 2010
12:33 am
The Celtics were robbed.
Jody
June 18th, 2010
12:37 am
Rebounding, rebounding, rebounding. That’s the common theme that’s being talked about as a deciding factor in this series. Also, in Doc River’s post game conference, he mentioned how the Lakers attacked their “lack of size” several times, referring to the abscense of Perkins.
F the Hawks!!!!!!, unfortunately, you have a point. There are no more excuses.
drmaryb
June 18th, 2010
12:55 am
Joe Johnson could fit very well in Boston. (The team that drafted him)
The Celtics UFA’s are: T. Allen, R. Allen and Nate Robinson. We don’t need any trades to get those guys.
That makes sense for both teams!
bigdave
June 18th, 2010
1:03 am
Doc…
222- 0….? sheesh..
drmaryb
June 18th, 2010
1:07 am
Joe Johnson would be a perfect fit for the Celtics! (The team that drafted him)
Their UFA’s are: R. Allen, T. Allen and Nate Robinson. We need multiple pieces Not one.
These three are: Vocal, Energetic and Veterans. We need that.
Joe is NOT: A vocal, energetic leader.
This player swap would NOT require a sign and trade and Joe would be “EFFED” if he had to find a team straight up with no contracts to offset/leverage his so-called Max Contract! He and his agent would be forced to work and find at least two teams to make his deal work!
That my friends would be Poetic Justice for this Hawks Franchise!
MsDee
June 18th, 2010
1:19 am
Blog family…
Honestly, is it not depressing to see that the Hawks could never look THAT good in the finals???? I mean, that was a great DEFENSIVE-MINDED Finals, both teams were tired on offense but played there butts off on defense. I was rooting for Boston (of all teams b/c I simply cant stand the Lakers) but I guess the better team won..GREAT 2010 game 7 Finals!!
doc
June 18th, 2010
1:22 am
big dave yes …. 222-0. sat with members of that team during the early dodd years on the sidelines, most memorable was froggy morrison the quarterback of that team. interesting stories of the game and how it happened. cumberland elected to always kick rather than receive the ball after tech scores. also cumberland players were coming to the tech bench to avoid being put in the game.
doc
June 18th, 2010
1:24 am
i loved watching the off ball movement and defense with every possession often not even looking at the ball but other areas of the court. some banging going on there.
artest was huge, glad he got the yoke off his back and a win. he was headed to being the fall guy if they lost.
drmaryb
June 18th, 2010
1:30 am
222 – 0?
What does this mean?
Grandad
June 18th, 2010
1:44 am
What a game.
I’ve been a Celts fan since I got to go over to
Bailey Howell’s house as a kid and his parents
let me spend the afternoon perusing his scrap
books & paraphernalia.
But dang.
Gasol & Artest = two of my favorites.
That game is why I love basketball.
Pure balls to the wall the whole game.
I can’t wait ’til next season.
Go Hawks.
Grandad
June 18th, 2010
1:53 am
The better team didn’t necessarily win,
time just ran out with one team ahead.
Both clubs were filled with warriors.
Both teams were spent.
Paul Pierce had no saliva left in his mouth.
Kobe barely could breath.
KG was completely spent.
Maybe the best pro game ever as far as *effort & *heart;
*from both teams*.
What a game – what a game – what a game !!!
drmaryb
June 18th, 2010
2:02 am
Lemons & Limes!
Lakers & Celtics!
These Colors DON’T run.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 18th, 2010
2:44 am
Of course, the Hawks really need a 6′9″ tweener forward, because they don’t have any of those…
I think the Hawks should take the best player available, but there’s no way in hell Gani Lawal is the 24th best player in this draft.
Grandad
June 18th, 2010
2:53 am
Truthspitter as promised:
(I can’t sleep anyway, after that game)
Some of your guys are the same.
Others – I don’t feel will be there @ 24. [Xavier Henry]
I love it if XH falls to us, but he’s more likely a lottery pick.
(1) Larry Sanders – If he’s there we must take him.
(2) Luke Babbitt – Offensive threat / played for Mark Fox 1st yr.
(3) Greivis Vasquez – most under-rated player in draft.
(4) Jerome Randle – Small, maybe best long range shooter in country.
(5) Damion James – great defender.
(6) Paul George – doubt he drops this far, if so a steal.
(7) Jerome Jordan – older & more mature + more advanced than Alabi.
(8) Ryan Richards – 6-11, ‘Big’ from England that can shoot.
(9) Brian Zoubek – I’m serious ! Duke doesn’t win it w/o him.
(10)Art Parakhouski – Never heard of him???, you will soon.
(11)Hassan Whiteside – Dropping, attitude, lets say B-ball IQ.(or IQ)
(12)Elliot Williams – Former Dukie, transferred to Memphis.
(13)Hamady N’diaye – Near 7 ftr. [6-11.5,shoes] rangy shot blocker.
(14)Jordan Crawford – Scorer, shooter, will be there @ 24, hmmmmmmm.
Rickbilly Sundknight
June 18th, 2010
5:24 am
We don’t need another Power Forward, that’s the last thing we need, we have 2 All-Star level PFs
O'Brien
June 18th, 2010
6:54 am
northcyde,
Agreed about the defense. And that’s the main reason why the Celtics were such a good road team. Because shots may not fall on the road, the bench players may not play well on the road, but defense travels well. And we saw it again tonight from the Celtics. Defense.
You can’t help buy wonder if Perkins would have made a difference (given how badly the Lakers were outrebounded), but the Lakers still earned it. Celtics were tired, and Doc didn’t play much of his bench in the second half. I also think the Celtics ran too many ISOs when they had that big lead in the 3rd quarter. And Arterst finally showed up big. Congrats to the Lakers.
Bring on the draft and free agency.
drmaryb
June 18th, 2010
7:32 am
DEFENSE!
Once again – IT won a Championship!
Hello … Hello – anybody there? Sund? Drew? Players?
Big Ray
June 18th, 2010
7:46 am
A few things I noticed from last night’s game
1) Rebounding, defense, hustle. Both teams got after it something fierce, and there wasn’t a player on the court who loafed it for one minute.
The Hawks don’t display that as a team. In fact, only three out of five starters tend to, and sometimes only two. Joe plays hard, but he’s not precisely a hustler all the time. Al is the most consistent. Josh is the most impactful. When he hustles, it sparks the team (why do they need sparking?), when he doesn’t…it deflates the team.
2) On court leadership and communication. The team captains and point guards on both teams were very vocal, and everybody talked, especially on defense. Guys got to where they were supposed to be on the floor, and didn’t give up on plays.
The Hawks? Our veterans, lead guards, and team captains are a totally different story. Bibby is the most vocal, but he and Jamal Crawford share the same ineffectual play on defense. Neither is going to be a rallying point on that end of the floor, let alone in a playoff game. Unfortunately, neither can provide adequate leadership on the offensive end, either.
Joe Johnson couldn’t hold a candle to half the guys on the floor in that game when it comes to leadership/communication/poise. He doesn’t rally, inspire, or motivate anybody unless he’s scoring and defending his arse off, and we never got to see the scoring part this postseason (and his defense was adequate, not impressive).
If we aren’t getting the leadership factor from Joe or Mike, then who? Horford is the closest thing but even he didn’t have a great playoffs outing (but better than most on the team) the entire time, and the real problem is that the other guys are treating him like a young’un still (that seniority/veteranship attitude that has permeated the Hawks locker room and was supported on the sideline). Imagine if Rajon Rondo had to deal with that crap from the Big Three, as well as his coach. Think the Celtics would be as good as they are?
Meanwhile, Josh could be a leader on defense, but he has to put in the consistent diehard effort every night. And, he has to keep his head screwed on straight, instead of pouting and whining when calls don’t go his way, and getting lazy or out of control on either end of the floor. Leaders don’t do that.
Again, where are we going to get this oncourt leadership from? Joe is team captain as long as he’s here, but we have to get more than “well, that’s not really his style” out of this “we must sign him at all costs”, max contract wanting guy or somebody .
3) Players locked into the huddle. In the case of both teams, the coach had everybody’s attention in the huddle. Those guys were focused on their head coach and each other. Meanwhile, there was no mystical/magical stuff coming from the coaches. They kept it simple, calm, and to the point. I heard “move the ball around more” in both huddles. Guys were looking and listening, and chiming in.
The Hawks watch kiss cam, that hot chick in the 2nd row, and the mascot shooting souvenirs into the stands…anything but the coach. I think sometimes they ask each other where they plan to go for dinner after the game. Nobody was listening to the coach, and most weren’t talking to each other, either. They’re not locked in, they’re not focused. So timeouts are nothing but an opportunity to stop running for a few seconds. Other than that, they are the same thing that happens when the ball is in play: not communicating with each other, and nobody leading consistently. And not paying attention.
drmaryb
June 18th, 2010
7:50 am
UFA’s
Are like UFO’s!
Thing is No one can say? I didn’t see one? This off-season.
There are more of them than ever before in history. The Hawks are not hog-tied to Joe Johnson.
A creative GM can build a team without the need of a S & T this year.
Go get your reeses pieces – Any color you want. The real GM will be a “kid in the candy store”
No prisoners need be taken ( I.e. Bad Contracts!).
Now go get your pieces. You can pick from the finals alone:
R. Allen
T. Allen
N. Robinson
And who ever is a FA from the Lakers
And who ever is a FA from the play offs – period
Sund Go Get ‘Em! Take your pick.
We need intangibles not necessarily a scorer. We need: heart, energy, passion, IQ’s, rebounding, passing effort, veterans!,
Ramon
June 18th, 2010
8:04 am
Big Ray, Garnett, Pierce, Allen, Odom, Wallace, Rondo, Kobe, Gasol, and Fisher were all slow to get back on one or more possessions because they were complaining to the referees. And that was in Game 7 of the NBA Finals. So when you say leaders don’t do that, I guess neither of those seven are leaders on their respected team. When you play with emotions (as Josh and Al clearly plays with) its hard not to be affected some moments by a bad call or a no call.
dap01
June 18th, 2010
8:10 am
The Hawks seem to never have a plan.
The Hawks complain about no talent available at their pick.
The Hawks are a poorly run organization.
drmaryb
June 18th, 2010
8:10 am
Blue-Ray
(3D – HDMI)
We we’re posting at the same time. We are on the same page!
Oh and add to the intangibles list:
Defense
Leadership
How many of these attributes do we see in Joe?
It’s Just like deciding whether to break up with a lover who doesn’t want to go the next level and get married and you got two kids together!
Make a Pros (pun intended) and Cons list: (intended to remove your emotions)
Joe’s Pros:
Scorer
Defender
Joe’s Cons:
Not Energetic
Not a Communicator
Not Vocal
Not holding others accountable in games
Passes sometimes
Not passionate
Non- Committal
Passive Rebounder
Not Moving w/o the ball
Not Aggressive
Not a Leaper
Not a Leader
Not Innovative
Not Caring about the Fans
Not always Impactful
Not diving for 50/50 balls on the floor and in the stands
And, IT just don’t stop!
A tiger will Not change his stripes!
chuckw/deadjournalist
June 18th, 2010
8:27 am
NY Post reporting this morning that ASG has Hawks, Thrashers and Phillips officially on the block. The report says Hawks/Phillips trip clause that would make it difficult to move Hawks out of ATL. No such verbiage with Thrashers.
GeeMack
June 18th, 2010
8:49 am
Somebody please take the NBA finals game 7 tape and show it to the “No Heart Hawks”. Let them know this is how you play a playoff game.
Mike is back
June 18th, 2010
8:57 am
chuckw/deadjournalist, I hope your story is true…the ASG definitely need to sale the team. They lost any chance of being relevant owners…when they wasted all their revenue in court…instead of the investing that money in the team.
They will still be millionaires after sale of the ASG…life goes on. I don’t see any of these guys filing for unemployment. lol
Ramon
June 18th, 2010
9:12 am
Chuck, the ASG selling the Hawks is a great thing going forward, but the timing is terribly poor. You shouldn’t put a team on the block DURING the offseason. Because any potential free agent will know that things are not settled here, and the new owner may not even like them.
chuckw/deadjournalist
June 18th, 2010
9:13 am
Mike – It is. Here’s the link: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/atlanta_sports_woes_nFWtCfbmsxk5uXjNim4q1O
The problem is – how does this affect the ability of the team to maneuver free agency? If anything, I think this increases the likelihood that JJ will not be back and not resigning him would lower the long-term salary debt the team would have as they look for new ownership.
O'Brien
June 18th, 2010
9:15 am
Ray,
Good observations overall.
But There was one play where Odom was slow getting back, and the Celtics scored. JVG pointed out that it was Odom’s fault. So there were occasions where players took a play off.
The difference is more often than not, the intensity, hustle and effort is there. So one play here or there is not magnified as much.
The problem for the hawks is they take too many plays off. And we don’t have anybody setting the example on the floor or on the sidelines.
If Rondo was here, he would give the ball to JJ and get out of the way. Plus Rondo is not a good shooter, so they Would have held that against him.
I hope teague watches tape of Rondo, Because there are ways to impact the games besides shooting.
doc
June 18th, 2010
9:30 am
dr m b
here is the significance of 222-0:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1916_Cumberland_vs._Georgia_Tech_football_game
doc
June 18th, 2010
9:33 am
hmmm maybe the asg arent cheap just lack commitment to the long haul. time to cash out.
ignition
June 18th, 2010
9:40 am
This cat should have stayed in school and graduated. He will not be a lottery pick he might not even get drafted 1st round.
I can’t see how this cat can help the Hawks other than providing depth.
JSS
June 18th, 2010
9:41 am
@ GHunt…
I’ve kinda given up on pushing Siler to the Hawks. Michael Cunningham pretty much said he only sees him as a NBDL scrub… By the way, Siler destroyed Lawal at Portsmouth last Spring. If that attitude is pervasive in the Hawks organization as well; it does not matter how well he played in Shanghai for Yao’s team this past Chinese season. They won’t take a chance on him. He’ll end up in Houston, Miami, or Utah.
@ Doc
222-0 was 1916 during Coah Heisman’s tenure…
Ramon
June 18th, 2010
9:41 am
Doc, I can’t lie. Each year they’ve lost over a combined $40 mil with the Thrashers and the Hawks. Part of it is their fault, and another part is the market fault. But to have losses like that for 4-5 fiscal years, on top of the legal costs, that’s hovering around $200 mil. You couldn’t really blame ANY ownership group for getting out then. And as much as we talk noise about the ASG, the Hawks have been successful the last three seasons. And I would dare to say the Hawks have gotten the more bang for their buck than any other NBA team. In the last 2 seasons, Atlanta was the lowest payroll team to make it to the 2nd round of the playoffs.
JSS
June 18th, 2010
9:43 am
@ Doc
Look up Ft. Valley State versus Knoxville College in 1969 when you get a chance…
drmaryb
June 18th, 2010
9:47 am
FOR SALE by OWNER
Many of you bloggers have been clamoring for ASG to sell their teams –
You spoke – They listened! And, they should sell – as a matter of fact?
They should have never bought in – period!
You wanted a new HC – anyone would be better than Woodson!
Another wish granted!
Gee – we must have a Jeanie in a bottle! We’re on a roll …what’s our third and final wish?
We’ll probably get that too.
Like I have been saying all along, joe will NEVER see 4 & 60 again, ever!
His value has diminshed over-night and the financial world is rocked by an IED.
Many teams are strapped for cash and the Players league is quickly becoming an Owners league once again.
There are always cycles and trends in ALL market places! The entire world is ion financial despair and
Basketball Players just aren’t that important in the grand scheme of things!
There are more effective and cheaper ways to be entertained!
darrell starks
June 18th, 2010
9:52 am
Philps arena and the hawks, and thrasher is up for sell wow!!!!! is it possible the hawks could be moving 2 another city.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
June 18th, 2010
9:53 am
M.C we need more info. on this.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
June 18th, 2010
9:56 am
The hawks lost 20mill. and thrasher lost 30mill, ASG MIGHT BE BROKE, and the hole time us fans was thinking ASG was just being cheap.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
dap01
June 18th, 2010
10:09 am
It is hard being a Hawks fan. You don’t know who they are working out while getting ready for the draft. You don’t know that the team is being sold. You have to hear over and over that there is no one to draft. You have to hear over and over that there is no possible way to get a center (even though other teams have two or three). You have to hear that rookies can not contribute even though they do for other teams. You have to hear that bench players can’t be utilized. You have to go through an offseason not knowing what the team is trying to do. You have to pretend that the management has a plan yet there is never any evidence that it does. You have to never hear obvious questions asked like: (Coach, have you noticed that teams take advantage of your switching defense?). You have to pretend that you are happy to draft another 6′9″ forward with lots of athletic ability but poorly refined skills and little basketball IQ.
doc
June 18th, 2010
10:11 am
jss yes it was
chuck thanks for the lead, must admit got a little dustracted by the megan fox pictorial to the right of it. yes i clicked and paused there for a bit.
back to reality, ramon says they have lost a bundle. well yes and no gate receipts could make up for that kind of loss if it is real.
yes, they got the most bang for the buck on performance for cash outlay, have said that myself. they also got a few years of desultory results with 38 mil spent, too i might add and still expected enthusiasm and the turnstiles to turn. we also dont know if those are funny numbers or real dollars, creative accountants can make gold into clay from what i have seen in my lifetime.
Big Ray
June 18th, 2010
10:12 am
Ramon ,
Perhaps I should have been more specific. “One or more possessions” does not make a trend or pattern, and the very next play those guys were going at it. The same cannot be said of some of our guys (most notably Josh Smith, who I am a big fan of), who have let something like that affect their play for a quarter, half, or even an entire game.
I’m not saying the Celts and Lakers were perfect out there. But they were infinitely more focused than our guys tend to be. I’m just calling it like I see it. This was my exact statement:
And, he has to keep his head screwed on straight, instead of pouting and whining when calls don’t go his way, and getting lazy or out of control on either end of the floor. Leaders don’t do that.
They don’t. But too often we’ve seen Josh get mad about something and then play like crap for several minutes. Sometimes it’s foul calls on him. Sometimes it’s foul calls he thought he should have gotten. The issue isn’t his passion, it’s his inability to remain focused for stretches of time when his passion overcomes him. Sometimes he gets to the point of trying too hard to make something happen, when he’s trying to make up for losing focus. That’s called being out of control. It doesn’t happen all the time, and it certainly happened a lot less this past season. But it still happens too much. And Josh isn’t the only one, he just has the biggest impact when he does it. Again, I’m a Josh Smith fan, so take it for what it’s worth.
Furthermore, I mentioned “loafing”, as in playing lazy for no reason. Loafing is not arguing a call or pouting. It’s simply taking a plays off. How much did you see that happening last night?
For the record, I consider Odom and Wallace role players, not leaders. Fisher is part leader, part role player in my mind. Ray Allen is the same. Just my two cents worth. I’m not a Laker or Celtic fan. But I would like to see our team acting more like a TEAM, such as those two teams do.
Big Ray
June 18th, 2010
10:17 am
And I would dare to say the Hawks have gotten the more bang for their buck than any other NBA team. In the last 2 seasons, Atlanta was the lowest payroll team to make it to the 2nd round of the playoffs.
I guess that’s the real world business perspective. For some reason, I have trouble getting the taste of that postseason playoff performance out of my mouth. Especially when we set a new record for number of total points lost by in a playoff series…
Big Ray
June 18th, 2010
10:36 am
Looks like the ASG is calling it quits as soon as they can get somebody to buy the team.
But of course, the team isn’t worth buying because the fans are crap….right?
doc
June 18th, 2010
10:44 am
Another source in the sports business said, “There will be more foreclosures. In five years you’ll have a lot fewer teams and buildings will go dark.”
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/atlanta_sports_woes_nFWtCfbmsxk5uXjNim4q1O#ixzz0rDRsf0Ew
think there wont be a work stoppage in football and basketball at about the same time?
now where is the book on how to understand soccer on my book shelf?
gtlinz
June 18th, 2010
10:55 am
The thing to remember is that this kid has not really been coached. Hewitt has had many players improve after going into the NBA because his coaching skills stop at recruiting. So there may be large upside to Lawal.
DavidDecatur
June 18th, 2010
10:59 am
Untie your panties the pick has not been made…hold your horses on your fake reactions
Ramon
June 18th, 2010
10:59 am
Big Ray, I agree. I think the biggest problem is that all of those players have been on a team that had another teammate to cuss them out on the court, in a huddle or anywhere else if their mind wasn’t in the game. Josh hasn’t really had anyone on the court with him that would chew him out about not being focused. To be honest, second only to Al, Josh is a leader on this team and a pretty good one. Al’s 3 year in college were more educational with Donovan, than Josh’s 3 years with Harrington, Joe, and Woody. Remember how Garnett and Pierce used to chew out Perkins and Rondo. Or remember when Eddie Jones and Fisher would pull Kobe to the side, Jordan had it in Bill Cartwright and Oakley. At the moment the Hawks doesn’t (and hasn’t) have any player(s) to keep the rest of the team accountable. And that’s not something that comes from the coach but from other players.
steve brown
June 18th, 2010
11:00 am
Atlanta’s sports woes
Owner puts Hawks, Thrashers & arena up for sale
By JOSH KOSMAN
Last Updated: 5:44 AM, June 18, 2010
Posted: 12:49 AM, June 18, 2010
Comments: 0
| More Print [Follow Us on Twitter]
Today the National Basketball Association has a 2009-10 champion, but for the Atlanta Hawks the real battle has just begun.
The Atlanta Spirit, the group that controls the team, has put it on the block and, in recent days has started to solicit buyers for the franchise in a package with the Philips Arena where the team plays, according to sources with direct knowledge of the process.
The Spirit is also selling its Atlanta Thrashers franchise of the National Hockey League.
The Hawks posted an operating loss of roughly $20 million last year before servicing debt. The Philips Arena made $10 million.
NBA’s Atlanta Hawks, the NHL’s Thrashers and the Philips Arena are for sale.
AP
NBA’s Atlanta Hawks, the NHL’s Thrashers and the Philips Arena are for sale.
That means the package together is losing money, and if one bought the Hawks and tried to move them out of Atlanta it would trip a clause in the financing deal that would accelerate the remaining debt payments owed on the 11-year-old arena.
So a buyer would likely need to keep them in town, sources said.
As for the Thrashers they are being sold separately and lost about $30 million in the last 12 month, according to figures compiled by the Spirit, the source said.
The owners have hired the Raine Group, a New York investment bank, to sell the teams, which both just completed winning seasons.
This dilemma is part of a deeper problem the NBA faces in that its teams posted an overall loss of $400 million, according to Commissioner David Stern.
At the same time, many of the team owners who were very rich have lost money in the recession and cannot afford to keep funding money-losing teams.
Owners too have a quickly depleting number of wealthy financiers to whom they can sell their teams.
For example, the money-losing New Jersey Nets searched 18 months for a buyer until they got lucky and found billionaire Russian Mikhail Prokhorov, the source said.
Another source in the sports business said, “There will be more foreclosures. In five years you’ll have a lot fewer teams and buildings will go dark.”
In other industries you would see mergers and cost cuts, but in sports salaries are fixed, the other source added.
The Atlanta Spirit could not be reached for comment.
In 2004, the group paid $250 million to buy the basketball and hockey teams, along with Phillips Arena, from Time Warner.
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/atlanta_sports_woes_nFWtCfbmsxk5uXjNim4q1O#ixzz0rDTXjHYz
Bravesfan79
June 18th, 2010
11:11 am
As a long time GT hoops fan, Lawal would be a above average shot blocker, and a decent post player. Id take him over most of the current Hawks bench of big men any day. I still think he would of been better off coming back to GT for his senior year.
Bravesfan79
June 18th, 2010
11:12 am
Lawal has good touch on his bank shot, thats important for a big man.
Samuel
June 18th, 2010
11:16 am
This is who we need on the Hawks. We got too many “CHARACTER” guys. We need some “HOOD”.
http://www.nba.com/video/channels/playoffs/2010/06/18/20100617_artest_nbatv.nba/?ls=iref:nbahpt2
darrell starks
June 18th, 2010
11:18 am
Economy is getting worst and player asking for more money and owner ship are charging 2 much for tickets, basketball, football, and baseball are going 2 have make tough decision in order 2 save the games.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
June 18th, 2010
11:20 am
As it have been reported more people are losing there jobs and home, it’s not getting better and years on down the road player will be playing for free.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!
Samuel
June 18th, 2010
11:24 am
Ken,
Why are people wearing coats in South Africa in the Middle of June?
G-MAN013
June 18th, 2010
11:30 am
Samuel
it is winter in SA
darrell starks
June 18th, 2010
11:42 am
The NBA lost over 400mill this year this is unreal.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
Samuel
June 18th, 2010
12:13 pm
I knew that
GT Alum
June 18th, 2010
12:14 pm
Big Ray, the interesting thing I saw in last night’s game that relates really closely to the Hawks is how in the third quarter, with a good lead, the Celtics’ offense basically devolved into iso-Paul. Pierce wasn’t getting good looks out of the isos, and that gave the Lakers a lot of the defensive stops they needed to get back into the game.
The problem with relying on isos is no matter how good a player is, it’s always easier to play lock-down defense on one guy than 5 guys.
O'Brien
June 18th, 2010
12:30 pm
I wonder if David McDavid is 1) still interested and 2) has the money.
If the Hawks are really up for sale though, I think we can kiss JJ goodbye. Why would he want to come here, and why would we want to pay him the max?
I would like to see some more official reports though.
@ MC,
Have you heard anything?
Hawk fan
June 18th, 2010
12:37 pm
Let Lawal pass….Just say No!
Ramon
June 18th, 2010
12:40 pm
O’Brien, ASG would still sign JJ because JJ on the roster guarantees a playoff spot next season. Long as the Hawks are still a playoff team, they’ll be easier to sell and more valuable on the market.
Justafan
June 18th, 2010
12:42 pm
Don’t blame Lawal from not going back to Paul Hewitt for senior year. I wouldn’t play for Bewitt, nothing to learn there. Fire Paul Bewitt!
GT Alum
June 18th, 2010
1:34 pm
As far as the team being up for sale making free agents think the team is unstable, NBA analysts have been saying that the whole legal battle and the ownership being a multi-headed monster instead of having a single decision maker would make players question the team’s stability, so I honestly don’t know that putting the team up for sale would make the perception any worse. Players might assume the ownership situation could only get better.
d.carter
June 18th, 2010
2:11 pm
sign and trade with memphis for Rudy Gay and maybe a throw in player… or New Jersey who will be more than willing when they dont get LBJ.. maybe Yi Jainlian and Devin Harris or something to make the numbers work…. Then offer Rudy Gay… Also draft wise would love to see B.Zoubek from Duke a 7-1 270lbs banger who sets great screens and plays good post defense and rebounds and maybe later J. Schayer a proven 3pt shooter
Sautee
June 18th, 2010
2:17 pm
d. carter,
What if Joe doesn’t WANT to go to Memphis or NJ?
Remember that Joe is UNRESTRICTED. It’s HIS call (or his agent’s) where he chooses to go. All we can do is try to work out a S&T with whomever that is.
drmaryb
June 18th, 2010
2:39 pm
Keepin’ it Real!
drmaryb is going to always keep it real! I have bee telling you guys this for the past four weeks that
JJ will Never see 4 & 60 0million again, here or anywhere! The Suns are also broke and Amare will sound find that out as well.
These Players have been living in X-BOX 360 world for so long until they are out of touch with reality!
The team is an asset to the owners as long as the turn-stiles are turning and merchandise is selling.
However, IT’s the Economy – STUPID! The Global World Economy is in financial Peril and we just blog along and dream of fantasy trades all day and all night long. But, the reality is that All of the small market teams will likely be blacked out arenas. The Hawks may survive because our product is good and the payroll is one of the lowest league wide and we live in a highly and densely populated city where the media is alive and in tact. But, that alone may not be enough to save the franchise!
“I AM LEGEND” starring WILL SMITH may become a world reality – literally as we near The End ! And,
The Conclusion of this System of Things! And, approach our Last Days as we all knew them to be!
I know, that is deep and everyone wants to become the dumbest bird alive – an Ostrich!
But, burying our head in the sand will NOT alter the THRUTH! So, enjoy the Hawks while we can
And for the Love of God! Be grateful and remain humble!
BTW, the Lakers are also scaling back the purse strings!they are asking Phil to reduce his salary from
12 Million per year to 5 Million per year – or WALK! That HC Elite Salary Market is also a thing of the past!
The reason is financial Losses by these owners in The Wall Street Markets and Re.al Estate Markets
drmaryb
June 18th, 2010
2:50 pm
OBRIEN
David McDavid I believe is filing or has filed Bankruptcy. He was a Texas car dealer ships owner!
He lost hi shirt during the Wall Street collapse and GM, FORD, CHRYSLER bail-outs!
Remember that?
drmaryb
June 18th, 2010
2:57 pm
OBRIEN
Had David McDavid bought the team? He would likewise be looking a buyer right about now as well!
Joe, really should have signed that Hawks offer, before his game declined in the play offs!
He’s damaged goods now. Granted, some team may pay him and it may even be the Hawks to maintain the product level, buÞ it’s hard to say or see for me right now.
There is so much better talent available, with all the smart ELITE players opting-out, they are also taking a huge risk as well with the “Bird in the Hand -vs- Two in the Bush”. analogy!
The Truth
June 18th, 2010
5:35 pm
testing one two three
Ken Strickland
June 18th, 2010
5:50 pm
Isn’t it funny how some fans claim the ASG is too cheap to spend money, then these same fans complain about the ASG spending too much money for certain players. Didn’t the ASG spend what it took to acquire JJohnson, MBibby and JCrawford? Didn’t they spend the money to match the offer to JSmith and resign last yrs FA’s, MWilliams, MBibby and ZPachulia?
There’s a difference between being cheap and being stupid with your money. Suns GM Steve Kerr is out as their GM right now because he spent too much money and got too little results. Just look at the NY Knicks if you want a perfect example that spending money alone doesn’t even guarantee you a chance of winning, let alone winning a championship.
DRMARYB-you are absolutely correct. Even teams with major cap space aren’t going to waste it on a player unless he has draw appeal and can put butts in the seats. Players like DWade, LJames and KBryant have that quality, but players like CBosh, DHoward and JJohnson don’t. They can make a team better, to varying degrees, but they don’t inspire fans to come out just to see them.
Therefore, it doesn’t make much sense to pay a player max money if that player doesn’t have the star power to generate enough revenue over the length of his contract to make it profitable. JJohnson makes us a better team, but he simply doesn’t have the star power, personality or WOW factor in his gm to put A$$’s in the seats by himself. Win, lose or draw, people what to see Kobe, Lebron and DWade do their thing.
Our budget already includes the $15M we paid JJ last yr, so adding another $1-3M won’t break the bank, which makes us the only team that can sign JJ without eating up a sizable portion of our cap. Teams that don’t have a lot of talent to surround JJ with won’t get their money’s worth out of him, especially if they sign him to a max of near max contract.
When all is said and done, I believe he’ll resign with the Hawks, and new HC LDrew will have a solid nucleus of talented players to work his magic.
Matt Jones
June 18th, 2010
10:57 pm
nononononononononoononono!!!!Nooooooooo!
Halsey
June 18th, 2010
11:06 pm
The Hawks have positional needs, but the most important thing is they get someone who can be a valuable contributor in the NBA. A good player who doesn’t fill a position of need is better than a guy who does fill a need, but is just going to warm a bench in the NBA. Remember, Acie Law filled a need and Horford was considered to be just another 6′8 forward by some fans.
PaulieOldschool
June 19th, 2010
8:45 am
Why, in the name of all the great NBA centers of the past, would we consider drafting ANOTHER Billy Knight-type “long”? When do you have enough 6′9″ forward types? And, no, we can’t pick up a genuine big “in the later rounds” or “undrafted.” Damn!
Elliot Garcia
June 19th, 2010
9:15 am
We need a real center!
Lawal Likes Hawks. Feeling Maybe Mutual? - True Sports Core Forums
June 20th, 2010
10:56 am
[...] focused on physical contact in the workout sessions and more concerned with seeing their skills. Atlanta Hawks: Lawal gets close look from Hawks | Atlanta Hawks Interesting and not a bad pick but…….WE NEED A CENTER [...]
i_am_soulstar
June 21st, 2010
10:21 am
MC,
Any word yet on who the other 4 players are receiving serious consideration?
Michael Cunningham
June 21st, 2010
11:22 am
@soulstar: not yet, hope to have something later today.