Atlanta Hawks: Players say Drew isn’t Woody 2

Very interesting, good article. I’m a little nervous about the whole situation. I think they needed an entirely new voice. I kind of doubt a first-time head coach can take them to the “next level”. Drew sounds like a great assistant. Wish they kept him there and hired Casey but, we’ll see.

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I wonder if it was Al who is the “player” u are talking about.

Al is by far the most mature player on the team.

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.why is it when someone leaves or is fired we tend to remember them for bad reasons?something went right with mike woodson coaching.he won 53 games.lets see us best that this season.

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Who cares the that he and Woodson arent twins? An apple never fall far from the tree. He will now be under Woodson’s shadow.

His mentor has taught him well and he is charged not to match woodson but to exceed him. There is the challenge. The bar is at 53 wins and getting to the second round of the play offs.

For this to be a improvement the hawks will have to advance to the semi-finals with effectively the same squad. Then I can say clearly this was a move in the right direction.

Otherwise we are just pissing in the wind, and Sund not only looks like an idiot but has an advance degree in idiot-ology.

Finally, all bets are off if the Hawks get a much needed starting center because that would be a clear upgrade of the tools woodson lacked in his arsenal.

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the problem……….ASG (to many broke folk)

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Woodsen got out at the perfect time, the acme of his Hawk coaching career. No one in his or hers right mind really think the Hawks can go much further than they have. Woodsen will eventually get a good contract somewhere, he has the growth record to support it.

The main reason Drew was hired was to give them a shot at signing Joe Johnson. It is that simple. However, he has paid his dues and I wish him the best.

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Hey Truth-serum,

Did you find that link yet? You know, the one about Shaq’s supposed “thumb injury” that made him “announce” that he wouldn’t play in the All-Star game?

I think you are lying again to TRY to discredit Horford. But prove to me that you are not, and I’ll apologize.

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I hope I am wrong, but normally moves like this don’t pan out.

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“the players whom Woody treated like pros and gave some degree of latitude in their working conditions eventually let him down”

FIRE WOODY

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Hey MC how do you feel now that the coach search is over do you feel the hawks got their man or is it wait and see.

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MC, so it sounds like Woody expected some passes out of those iso sets… given that the players didn’t repsond to his request to share the ball at the same time describing the offense as iso-heavy.

Let’s hope the players recognize the difference in the new relationship as you described in your real-world example. That would show a tremendous amount of maturity if they recognize that a head coach has different responsibilities (and pressures) than an assistant. Screw the schemes and strategies, Drew needs to nurture a locker-room leader so that his is not the lone voice demanding excellence and effort. Going from a 50+ win team to a truly elite team will require a peer leader or two to hold others accountable.

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at MC, too funny.

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You know, it’s been said here so many times over the last 2+ years that the Hawks won in spite of Woody, not because of him. Maybe that’s why there are not many positive comments written about him. There were way too many negatives with his coaching style.

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i don’t know if LD can take the Hawks to the next level, but there are a few things that can make this squad a better T-E-A-M.
1. Do not constantly switch on defense.
2. Do not constantly run an isolation offense.
3. Develop the young players from the beginning of the season to help in the end of the season.
4. Be able to adjust correctly during a game.

If LD can get this Hawks team to do these 4 simple things, he will make this team better and supersede Woody. And make the team much more enjoyable to watch!

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THE HAWK SHOULD WIN AT LEAST 50 GM OR MORE IF JJ COME BACK..THEY NOW HAVE A COACH NOW THAT WILL MAKE CHANGE IN HOW THEY PLAY..RUN RUN RUN RUN

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I hope the players are watching the Finals. Some actual offfensive sets and……..oh no….ball movement….and the dreaded….TEAM WORK

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I’ve been reading all of these posts on different blogs about Joe and how screwed we’d be without him. I dont necessarily see it like that. Mike Bibby and Joe Johnson do not like contact and settled for jumpshots alot. It costs us several games late. I dont care who or what combination of players, but find me a PG and SG that dont mind contact and putting the ball on the floor and taking it strong to the rack for higher percentage shots and more fouls on the opponent/free throw trips for us and I’d take it. When we combine that new element of the offense, along with better movement on offense (we cant be ANY worse in that dept, right?), Horford, Smoove, Marvin, Crawford, Evans, Teague and whatever we can get from the draft and FA ….and we should be better.

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The quirk about the NBA (& MLB) that doesn’t fit MC’s analogy is the power of the promoted. Your promoted boss in most industries has an easier time getting you fired. These guys are guaranteeeeeeeeeeed! Leverage is about relationships and playing time.

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o.O-Mac-Town -Macon, Georgia- Westsider-O.o,

I don’t know what games you watch, but the ones I see is when JJ is driving and he gets wacked but doesn’t get the call.

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Terrell, I want guards that drive it and take it up strong.
Joe drives it and then puts up lazy floaters. Maybe he would have gotten more calls if he actually went hard to the hoop.

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speakin’ of new realtionships…if JJ returns i hope he realizes that he is NOT the real leader the Hawks need. and whomever it is, i hope he’s READY for his new place in the hierarchy…IF he returns!!!

@doc…gimme CHILS at the 3 and sit Marvin’s a$$ on the bench or wherever you want to put him…except on the floor (i know Chils is your man doc)

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KNOWLEDGE QUEST- You’re using the same flawed thinking that got Woodson fired. How can you say the bar for LDrew is 53 wins when RSund plainly stated that the bar for Woodson would be how well he and the team preformed during the playoffs. Why would it all of a sudden change for LDrew?

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…and a reality check for folks that cannot believe Drew got the job.

If Drew wins one game in the 2nd round of the playoffs, he has done what Woody did not.

If he gets out of the 2nd round, he’s done what no Hawks coach has done in the past 35 years or so.

Several big name coaches are guys that got a shot when their head coach wasn’t good enough and they needed someone else to take them to the next level. The Lakers did it after winning a championship with Paul Westhead (Hello Pat Riley). The Bulls did it after consistently losing to the Pistons in the playoffs (Calling Phil Jackson). The Knicks sor of tried it with (Hang on to that leg, Jeff van Gundy. Even the coveted Avery Johnson got a chance after the mad offensive genius, Don Nelson, got madder with the Mavs.

All that said, he got 2 years with an option for a 3rd. Not exactly a lifetime contract.

As a season ticket holder, I’m neither jumping out a window nor putting my 401k on the Hawks to win it all. For the moment, I’m more interested in how he fills out the staff, who’s on the summer league roster, and what the final roster looks like. These are things that will happen before Larry Drew gets a notch in his official NBA coaching record.

In the meantime, if you want to worry about something coach Drew has controlled, check out his camp page.
http://www.svbabball.com/larryDrewCamp.html

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LAKERS, CELTICS, MAGIC, CAVS LOOK OUT! WE GOT LARRY DREW!
(psst, do they look scared?)

.

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I’d like to see more editorials like this. It made me think.

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If Drew cuts ties with Tyrone Hill and gives Horford more of a leadership role I will take that as positive signs we are going to be okay!

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This is encouraging to read but, we won’t really know what we have until October.

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I like the hire. Willing to give Coach Drew a chance.

But, can’t stand reading people trying to come up with excuses why it was Woodson’s fault the playoffs went bad. It wasn’t. That performance (especially the Orlando series) is all on the players. Total lack of effort. They quit. They should be the ones taking sh#t for that. Don’t try and pan that off on Woodson.

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Mystikal, I would dance in the streets if the Hawks could get Deandre Jordan. I love that guy’s game. Big guy who attacks the rim and plays hard all the time. Would be a great sign-and-trade.

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Drew was picked because the alternatives sucked, and it’ll be easy to justify firing him after 1 or 2 seasons when a better coach will be available. In other words, don’t count on the Hawks escaping the early rounds of the playoffs anytime soon.

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Mike, you conning ham. Its nice to know you read me regardless of what moniker I choose to use. I read you to…So there… thanks for the shout out?

Ray… I mean “Rick Sund” arent you afraid that the owner will read your denouncement? If youve got the courage to make the proclamation here couldnt you as well have been man enough to say…Im not going to hire Woodson’s step child?

gcs

June 13th, 2010
10:31 pm

LAKERS, CELTICS, MAGIC, CAVS LOOK OUT! WE GOT LARRY DREW!
(psst, do they look scared?)

LMAO STILL, looks like im not the only one! Funny post.

NOW HOW ABOUT A FREAKING CENTER?!

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Not that I am representing these few disgruntled fans about our new coach hiring, but perhaps a reason why the “knee-jerk” reaction still lingers points to Sund characterization of why the coach change was necessary. He said the Hawks needed a “new voice”. To some fans that statement translated into something new, something bold, and something completely different; a well-respected coach (around the league) capable of taking us to that next and final championship level. Maybe these disgruntled fans feel that our recent hired coach does not fit this bill. But from a qualification stand point we all know this was a good match. The reaction from the media and around the league is that Coach Drew has paid his dues and is more then qualified for the job. So really this lingering argument is not about Drew qualifications because he certainly has that; then perhaps this is about Sund misleading statement of a “new voice” for a coaching change. I will admit he gave us all a “hard-on” for a “big-splash” coach selection that didn’t apparently happen. Maybe again this exposes discord between Sund understanding of change and the ASG understanding of change as Sund apparently got overruled.

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Nah Truth. The fans/we actually did that to ourselves. Sund didn’t lead people on. The fans overhyped the situation because most wanted Woody out of here so bad. When you look at the decision that they eventually made, I think Avery was brought in to simply satisfy the fans.

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section 303, Woodson has lost like 13 of 14 to Orlando, how can u not blame that on coach Woody?
Other than the miracle last second dunk-in by Josh Smith in the regular season everybody knew this was going to be a sweep. His strategy trying to defend them obviously hasn’t been working, especially Dwight Howard.

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Here is my take on the hiring of Drew. First off, since LD has 6 years with the Hawks and the players like him, it won’t work out unless on the first day of practice he sets the tone of how it is going to be, my way or don’t play! Somehow i don’t think he will set the rules down hard with current roster as he doesn’t want to rub players feelings and since he is a rookie head coach there will be mistakes made dealing with the players attitudes and work ethic. D. Casey would have been a better head coach as would bring in a breath of fresh air and new attitude different from the current situation. plus he had head coach experience so not a rookie head coach. good luck to LD, would have been better if he had only been with the Hawks for a year or two, not six years.

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So Joe Mama,aka ‘Touche,aka Knowledge Quest,aka about 20 other monikers, why do you use so many different names ? You might as well use the same one since everybody knows its you anyway. Only person you are fooling is yourself. And based on reading all the blogs you are unemployed and sit here all day blogging. Nice career choice …

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We needed change I’m not sure how much change we’ll get. This team clearly quit in the orlando series. I don’t see much changing if you don’t shake up the roster. I would not blow it up but I would make changes. I would trade smooth and let JJ go by sign and trade. This team needs a new look.

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Joe Mama

June 14th, 2010
12:12 am
Mike, you conning ham. Its nice to know you read me regardless of what moniker I choose to use. I read you to…So there… thanks for the shout out?

Does this means that Joe Mama = Truth Serum/and many others aka’s??? LMAO..

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MC – Do expect any revelations is today press conference?

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oops – Do you expect any revelations in today press conference?

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This is why the Hawks won’t make it to the Finals no time soon. Larry Drew maybe a good coach eventually, but this team needs a seasoned hand to get to the next level. As the assistant, he could focus on being the rah rah guy, not the guy who is front of the camera now. He is now got to make the calls. He gets to have the final say. When you are in charge, sometimes you have to be the bad guy. Players love to vent their frustrations to the assistant. The assistant isn’t viewed as the bad guy. Drew has never being the guy. If this team was 19 – 63, sure give him a try. But this team needs a coach who has the experience, a.k.a Avery Johnson, Jeff Van Gundy, Rudy T., Byron Scott, or Lawrence Frank.

That being said, the Hawks mgt just showed us by hiring Larry Drew that they are not interested in winning.

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Jss

Two competitive & spirted people showing passion and fire in a play-off series game 7, which BTW the
Hawks won! Would you rather a group hug in a loss? You have NO idea what the conversation’s content was.so, why be judgemental? Just eat your popcorn and sip on your cherry – coke … That’s what an ’s entertained fan does. The play-offs are intense by nature. It’s nothing personal towards you the fan – it’s called the heat of the battle!

People who look for reasons to complain and be discontent can easily find it.
Go – Figure.

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KB, your statement is funny because neither of the coaches you mentioned has experience as winning the NBA Finals. And all of the coaches you mentioned were fired from their last gigs. So how are you sure they have a better chance to win a title in Atlanta than Larry Drew? If Van Gundy couldn’t win with Ewing, Yao, McGrady, and others how you expect him to win with the Hawks? Rudy T, is the only one who has won, and he retired from the LAKERS because of health issues. So I doubt he would give up a gold mind like the Lakers to turn around and come work for ASG. Byron Scott isn’t any better than Mike Brown or Woodson to be honest. If Woody had J Kidd at point guard, he may would’ve lasted longer in the playoffs also. And Scott came out of the east the 2-3 years when it was easy to see the best team in the east wouldn’t even have been a top four seed in the West (LA, Sac, Portland, SA), so he didn’t have any competition stopping him.

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Pace Mannion, I watch the games, that’s why I do not put much of the blame on Woodson. The players quit in that series. Poor effort. Made me wish we did not have such p#ssy owners. There are several owners in the league who would have gone in the locker room and tore the place up, if their team gave that kind of effort.

I think the Hawk players should be reminded everyday of how they just rolled over and died in that series.

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JSS – I don’t recall the shouting match that Bibby and Hill had. What part of the game did it occur?

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Ramon,

I understand your concerned about the coaches I mention earlier, but they are far better than what the Hawks had in the past. I have been in the ATL for 20 years. I have learned that you need to do things the right way. The Falcons have finally got it right. So why can’t the Hawks do the same?

Ramon, the point is that the Hawks need a seasoned hand to take this team to the next level. Yes Ramon, other than Rudy T. this coaches haven’t won the title. But at least they have been out the 2nd round…….

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According to his camp’s website, Larry Drew excels in teaching guards how to shoot and control the pace of the game. Hopefully Teague is in good hands.

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KB, you said you learned you need to do it the right way, similar to the Falcons. However the Falcons aren’t going by their success with experience, but instead with a first time GM who was a scout, and a first time head coach who was an assistant coach his entire career. So in the head coach the Hawks are going the same way the Falcons have gone about their process. And I just think if either one of those coaches you mentioned were that great, they would be employed elsewhere. Reinsdorf knows about winning championships, after all he’s won 6 of them. Yet he still chose to go with a coach who had never been a head coach before. Pat Riley knows about winning championships, yet he also (for the second time) went with an assistant who had never been a head coach before. Matter of fact, when Van Gundy was first hired by a PLAY OFF TEAM in New York, he had never been a head coach in his career, and to make it worse he never even played in the NBA. Avery Johnson took over a 55+ win team without having head coaching experience on his resume. So all of these other teams have done the exact same thing the Hawks did with hiring Drew, yet you think the Hawks did an injustice?

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Another Woody, Move the hawks out of Atlanta and the owners to.
Get someone will spend money.
The hawks players or getting old.
Give Joe Johnson his walking papers and let’s be a contender in the league, not anoher 3rd seed.
Might be 6th seed this season.
Hawks managment spend some money fill in the blanks.

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paul pierce “players gotta play”

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KB, believe it or not, for the last three/four seasons the Hawks have been a successful team! There have only been 4 teams in the East who have made the playoffs each of the last three seasons. And the Hawks are one of those seasons. And each season the Hawks were in the bottom half of the league in team payroll. So believe it or not there are a lot of small market team who are looking at the Hawks as a MODEL to build towards. Unless you have owners who are willing to spend $90 mil for 2-3 seasons, you can’t expect a franchise that hasn’t been in the play offs in 9 seasons, to all of a sudden become title contenders. Its a process. And the Hawks have been successful at the first part of the process. Everyone points at San Antonio for the model, but forget to remember that the Spurs were a playoff team BEFORE Duncan came. And the only reason they won the draft lottery, was because David Robinson had a season ending injury.

As I said Avery Johnson, Van Gundy, Van Gundy, Franks, Spoelstra and a few others took on playoff teams that were trying to take a next step to championships, and they each did good afterward. As I said, do I think Drew would’ve been my first choice, no he wouldn’t have. But at the same time I wouldn’t not hire him just because he’s never been a head coach before. Sometimes the one who hasn’t been given the chance is better than any perceived experience that others may have. You’ve already seen what those coaches bring as well as their FLAWS.

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nbadraft.net have the hawks picking this guy
http://www.nbadraft.net/players/armon-johnson

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[...] [...]

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Comparing LD to Mike Smith makes no sense. 2 diff organizations for when Smith got the hire here. LD has not been part of anything special in the NBA. Yes, he has paid his dues as a lifetime assistant, but at age 52, how does that state that this guy is now ready to lead his own program? What has he been doing the past 6 years? Does anyone know exactly what LD’s role on the team has been? Is it offense? or defense?
Saying that, I will stop the LD bashing and let him prove himself.

But this whole next-step-progression forward is a complete joke. Sund never had any intention to bring in a top coach. He looked for cheap and has that tells me he has no idea how to build a championship contender. Orlando and Boston and Cleveland have nothing to worry about next season as long as we stay with the same core.
We need to make a big move, we haven’t done it yet. The ASG has shown no one that next year will be any different than status quo. Apparently, that is good enough for them.

Very frustrating to watch this go on when the majority of us had this in the back of our mind already. I was okay with hiring anyone but LD in this ‘new voice’ move.

Good Luck Sund/ASG. I will have a hard time believing that a coach making 1.5M will be heard by anyone on this starting lineup. The will to improve is not being addressed.

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So the reasonable conclusion is the players were just as responsible for the firing. Maybe a growth lesson is to be learned by players and ex coach.

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o brien, great message, you took the words right out of my mouth

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Kendrick has about 45 lbs. on Al.
Was hilarious watching him lead the break yesterday, guy is fearless.

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O’brien ,

Well said. I hope Larry Drew doesn’t do the buddy buddy thing, either.

I think there is a misconception, however, and I hope Woody learned from it.

Creating a loose atmosphere where it’s all fun, letting guys do their thing on offense…. this is not coaching.

Ask yourself what kind of guys have been winning NBA championships as head coaches. Ask yourself what kinds of guys have been the most prominent and longest tenured in this league. Larry Brown. Phil Jackson. Pat Riley. Chuck Daly. Gregg Popovich. Jerry Sloan.

Did those guys win by letting players have this much freedom on offense? Did they win by “creating a fun, loose atmosphere?” There is nothing wrong with making the game fun. It’s supposed to be fun. But this is professional sports. PROFESSIONAL. I like to have fun on my job as well, but I’ll be damned if doing the serious part and being a professional does not come first. It always has. It always will.

The guy in the suit on the sideline should know that.

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So should the guys wearing the jerseys.

Al Horford knows that. Joe Johnson knows that too, but he also has to acknowledge how much freedom he has been given. I’ve watched him take plays off, too. I’ve watched him make bad decisions on the court as well. I’ve also watched him pay attention to everything but the coach while in a timeout huddle.

Strap up and be that leader, or stop complaining about your teammates. Leading by example is only half the job. If you can’t do the other half (getting in their faces), then forfeit your position as team captain and teacher’s pet, and let a hungry young’un like Horford do the job. All you have to do now is score. Don’t like the sound of that? Then strap the “F” up and get it done.

Same goes for Josh Smith, it’s that time. Be the defensive quarterback and play that way ALL THE TIME, like Kevin Garnett does.

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O’brien

I can tell you how TS would answer that, LOL.

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Is it too much to ask to resign JJ then go out and get Marcus Camby to play C while moving Horford to PF?

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Melvin

June 14th, 2010
9:48 am

Joe Mama

June 14th, 2010
12:12 am
Mike, you conning ham. Its nice to know you read me regardless of what moniker I choose to use. I read you to…So there… thanks for the shout out?

Does this means that Joe Mama = Truth Serum/and many others aka’s??? LMAO..

Melvin I dont know that these idiots have a clue. I guess it escape their thinking that I am not trying

hide. The Only one who has a clue is Grandad who call me “Mad Hatter”.

Im glad you are laughing. I think you just may get it.

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* Not trying to hide or be covert.

Whats funny is the con & ham thought he was making a startling revelation..

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I think Al plays the center position pretty well, but there’s nothing wrong with the Hawks acquiring a true center if it allows your All-Star player to play the position he’s most efficient at.

I don’t like the idea of moving Josh to the 3, but he’d definitely be an upgrade from Marvin.

And with the Perkins-Horford comparison, smaller centers usually make up for their lack of height with either great strength or weight, and I think that’s where Perkins and Horford differ, as at least Perkins’ weight is comparable to the other “true centers” of the league, so he can hold his own in the paint. Horford is about 30-40 lbs lighter, so he’s probably not your best defensive option against the really big guys, because he’s more easily moved.

Also, i thought it was Rasheed Wallace rather than Perkins that kept Dwight Howard off his game during some of the Boston-Orlando series?

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@Ken Strickland

Too bad the Hawks have been put out by the Cavs and Magic in back-to-back years. Maybe after the smoke settles from free agency we can hope not to meet either of those teams in the playoffs next year! With JJ, the Hawks are now built to beat the Celtics but not really another other great team in a best-of-seven series. He only reason the Hawks can now beat the Celtics is because they can out run the Celtics. When it comes to half-course offense/defense, the Hawks cannot stand up to the Magic, the Cavs, the Spurs, the Lakers, the Nuggets, and probably not the Jazz either.

Like I said before, we’ll have to see what teams are looking like going into the season after the draft and FA are over but the Hawks cannot advance to the Eastern Conference Finals based on what they’ve got right now barring some major upsets in the other matchups.

Why is it so important for Horford to be a center for some fans? It’s not like people are saying take Horford off the court. But obviously, Horford cannot provide enough umph in the middle for the Hawks to show better against the elite teams. It’s not good enough to beat those teams some of the time. We need to beat those teams most of the team to be a champion. A large step to being that type of team is letting Horford dominate other PFs in the league instead of being hit and miss against the Cs of the league.

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Big Ray

June 14th, 2010
12:52 pm

Typical day at the blog

Truth Serum posts under several different names and then accuses somebody else of doing it (falsely, I might add).

Blue Ray / Rick Sund

A Hit dog will Holler!

On the Perkins / Horford debate. Id lean toward Perkins because he stronger and more intimidating in the post than horffy in my opinion… I dont know How many of the coaches vote for Perkins as an All NBA defensive player but Horford only got 1 vote which i suspect was the loyal woodson so outside of that no coaches felt that Horford contributes much defensively. I wont argue with them.

BTW I think we can do better than Perkins too. I give him an easy nod over your boy….

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Big Ray

June 14th, 2010
1:11 pm

O’brien

I can tell you how TS would answer that, LOL

How’d I do Blue Ray?

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I’m all for the LD signing, I just wish they would’ve paid the man a little more.

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Ok looks like Perkins got 4 votes for 1st team and Horford got 0 but did get the complimentary Woodson vote to be on the team. Base on that Id say the coaches also have Perkins rated Higher than Horford.

2009-10 NBA All-Defensive Team
First Team
Position Player, Team 1st 2nd Points
Center Dwight Howard, Orlando 28 1 57
Guard Rajon Rondo, Boston 23 4 50
Forward LeBron James, Cleveland 20 5 45
Guard Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 13 8 34
Forward Gerald Wallace, Charlotte 11 8 30
Second Team
Position Player, Team 1st 2nd Points
Center Tim Duncan, San Antonio 8 5 21
Guard Dwyane Wade, Miami 8 4 20
Forward Josh Smith, Atlanta 6 8 20
Forward Anderson Varejao, Cleveland 2 11 15
Guard Thabo Sefolosha, Oklahoma City 3 8 14
Other players receiving votes, with point totals (First Team votes in parentheses):
Jason Kidd, Dallas, 12 (4); Marcus Camby, Portland, 12 (1); Ron Artest, 11 (3); Deron Williams, Utah, 10, (2); Kirk Hinrich, Chicago, 9 (1); Andrew Bogut, Milwaukee, 8; Luc Mbah a Moute, Milwaukee, 8 (1); Arron Afflalo, Denver, 6 (1); Kenyon Martin, Denver, 5 (1); Kevin Garnett, Boston, 5 (1); Grant Hill, Phoenix, 4 (2); Joakim Noah, Chicago, 4; Kendrick Perkins, Boston, 4 (1); Shane Battier, Houston, 4 (1); Andrei Kirilenko, Utah, 3 (1); Russell Westbrook, Oklahoma City, 3; Trevor Ariza, Houston, 3 (1); Andre Iguodala, Philadelphia, 2; George Hill, San Antonio, 2 (1); Jermaine ONeal, Miami, 2 (1); Joe Johnson, Atlanta, 2 (1); Lamar Odom, L.A. Lakers, 2 (1); Luis Scola, Houston, 2; Manu Ginobili, San Antonio, 2 (1); Nicolas Batum, Portland, 2; Caron Butler, Dallas, 1; Chauncey Billups, Denver, 1; Jared Dudley, Phoenix, 1; Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City, 1; Raymond Felton, Charlotte, 1; Marc Gasol, Memphis, 1; Pau Gasol, L.A. Lakers, 1; Chuck Hayes, Houston, 1; Brendan Haywood, Dallas, 1; Al Horford, Atlanta, 1; Serge Ibaka, Oklahoma City, 1; Ersan Ilyasova, Milwaukee, 1; Stephen Jackson, Charlotte, 1; Nene, Denver, 1; Chris Paul, New Orleans, 1; Tayshaun Prince, Detroit, 1; Earl Watson, Indiana, 1.

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Side note, JJ got 2 votes to be on the first team all defensive and of course Joshf has 6 first place votes and 8 2nd team votes at the power forward position

Horford got Woodson’s vote

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i_am_soulstar

June 14th, 2010
1:50 pm

I’m all for the LD signing, I just wish they would’ve paid the man a little more.

You get what you pay for…

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kirk, it sounds like the ASG have got your goat a bit here. they are what they are. i hope the blind squirrel found the nut on this hire. i will give ld a chance to prove himself.

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Hatter you initiated me into the “Bubba Crew” a long time ago.
We are still friends though.
*Because*
You see I’m a:
multi-cultural, multi-faceted, multi-dimensional, renaissance man.

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Truth-serum,

How did Horford get Woodson’s vote if the coaches were not allowed to vote for players on their own team?

http://www.nba.com/2010/news/05/05/all.defense/index.html

From the article linked above:

“The voting panel consisted of the NBA’s 30 head coaches, who were asked to select NBA All-Defensive First and Second Teams by position. Coaches were not permitted to vote for players from their own team.”

Once again you are lying in an attempt to make Horford look bad.

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LOL . . and what do YOU do Big Ray? You don’t think you exhibit characteristics that everyone can see on the board?

If anybody remotely criticizes Josh Smith, you break out into hives and get defensive about the kid. And you do the same thing when I, or anybody else, hold the fans to the fire about their commitment to what is supposed to be their favorite basketball team.

LOL . . it is what it is. Everybody, including you, has an modus operandi on these blogs.

********************

@ Ken Strickland . . . man, you sure do have high expectations for Teague. If you’re expecting Drew to turn him into a 12 – 13 ppg . . 6 – 8 assist guard, you’re pretty much expecting Teague to be a top10 PG in this league.

So I did a player search on basketball-reference.com. In the past 5 years, here are the guys who are 6 – 4 or shorter to average 12 ppg and 6 assists in a season , . and the # of times they did it ( in parenthesis ).

http://tinyurl.com/37839t9

Steve Nash ( 5 )
Baron Davis ( 5 )
Chris Paul ( 5 )
Dwyane Wade ( 5 )

Chauncey Billups ( 4 )
Andre Miller ( 4 )
Deron Williams ( 4 )

Gilbert Arenas ( 3 )
Raymond Felton ( 3 )
TJ Ford ( 3 )
Allen Iverson ( 3 )

Devin Harris ( 2 )
Kirk Hinrick ( 2 )
Derrick Rose ( 2 )
Mo Williams ( 2 )
Jason Kidd ( 2 )

Brevin Knight ( 1 )
Stephon Marbury ( 1 )
Mike Bibby ( 1 )
Jose Calderon ( 1 )
Sam Cassell ( 1 )
Tony Parker ( 1 )
Rajon Rondo ( 1 )
Rafer Alston ( 1 )
Jamal Tinsley ( 1 )
Russell Westbrook ( 1 )

You’re looking at about an average of 12 guards who are under 6 – 4 achieving this feat per year. Only 10 did it last year. This is NOT some simple feat you’re talkng about here. And it will be even harder to be achieved, if a shooter like JJ is taken away from Teague.

The minimum standard on this list, is T.J. Ford in the 2007 – 08 season:

23.5 min

12.1 ppg
6.1 ast
2.0 rebs

And he had to shoot 47% FG to achieve those numbers in that short of a time.

So you’re expecting Teague to go from a guy who got minimum playing time . . to a guy who gets at least 25 minutes a game, and will be at minimum . . a young T.J. Ford?

I don’t know man. If Drew could do that for Teague, that means either a ton of GMs overlooked this kid in the draft, or Drew may be the best coach in Atlanta history.

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Answer me this. If Al Horford was the starting center for the Celtics right now, would the Celtics be a better team with Al at the 5, or with Perkins at the 5?

That, O’Brien, is a good question. Thank you for asking. With the big 3 + rondo, the Celtics don’t need the offense that Al provides. Al is a great defender, gets his body in the right position to make shots difficult, decent job keeping his hands up and closing out on shooters. That said, he’s not as good of a defender as Kendrick.

Kendrick has 40 lbs added on yet similar defensive quickness (he can move for 280 lbs). His size and lack of offensive focus allows him to be more effective on the defensive end. He could care less about size, i’ve watched him ruthlessly go at Shaq and the biggest guys in the league. While he looks like a friggin beast on the court sometimes, I am told that he is one of the nicer guys in the league, very slow speaking, heavy country accent.

Celtics starters not named Kendrick Perkins need the ball, they’re all good scorers. The fact that Kendrick doesn’t play a role in the offense really just makes things easier for all involved. Perkins is one of the few remaining successful true defensive, high FG % centers obviously you’re going to want that over a hybrid 4/5 who brings more offense / foul shooting / passing to the table.

Now put Perkins as the starting center for the Hawks, and tell me if the Hawks are a better team with Perkins at the 5, or with Al at the 5

The only way the Hawks become a better team with Perkins at 5 is with Al at 4. Hawks need Al to bring anything and everything to the table. He’s moved probably from the #5 option to the #3 option, with some wanting him to be the #2 option because him and Josh put up roughly the same numbers and have similar post scoring abilities.

to finish this ugly series of random thoughts,
All things considered,
I would believe you 100% if you told me Al Horford was the starting center for the 2010 champion celtics. I would also believe it if you told me that Kendrick Perkins was the starting center for the 2010 championship Hawks, but I’d be curious to figure out who surrounded Perkins in Atl to make up for Horford’s 15-20 ppg.

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Sautee

Move on mam! Let that ish – go! There is NO link & I bet you have NO girlfriend.

You beat up old dead buried horses. Hell, you would probably dig up King – Tutt, if you knew where he laid!
Grow up dude and keep rollin’.

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Congrats to LD. Good luck to him. I’m sure once his playing days were done, that his career goals shifted to becoming a head coach and winning titles. I hope it happens for him soon. I’m pretty sure he was an assistant on the Detroit team with Woody, so he’s probably got a ring from that. Let’s hope he can keep a competitive team on the floor year in and year out until ownership changes or decides to spend some real money. It would be nice to spend the MLE every year and make moves at the deadline to improve the team even if it means taking on a contract. I’d love to re-sign Joe & Chill, draft a 1st rounder, and give Haywood the MLE this offseason. Won’t happen with this ownership though.

Teague/Bibby
Johnson/Crawford/Evans
Childress/Williams
Smith/
Horford/Haywood/Pachulia

…giving out minutes to that team would be a nice problem for LD to have.

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Northcyde ,

If anybody remotely criticizes Josh Smith, you break out into hives and get defensive about the kid.

Did I pinch a nerve? LOL…wow are you sensitive. I’m a self-proclaimed supporter of Josh Smith (among other Hawks players, and certainly the team overall). But my oh my is our hypocrisy boundless. If I break out in hives when Josh gets criticized, then you broke out in the measles, small pox, and caught a case of Hepatitis B if somebody said anything negative about Joe Johnson and positive about Jamal Crawford within the same paragraph. See how that works? It’s called exaggeration…

And you do the same thing when I, or anybody else, hold the fans to the fire about their commitment to what is supposed to be their favorite basketball team.

Uh..no, it’s not “I or anyone else”, it’s mostly you. And I’m not the only one who responds to your fan bashing. I’m just the one who cuts the deepest.

Nobody around here gets more heated, fixated, and detailed on what they think fans are and aren’t supposed to be or do, than you do. You like to tell people exactly how they should be as fans. Okay, so that’s your MO (this is the short version of the latin phrase you referred to earlier, most often used in my profession). Do I disagree with that? Yep. And I’ll make fun of it, rather than rant and rave like a lunatic, calling you names, etc.

Sorry if it’s more heat than you can deal with. Of course, if you truly despise the fan base so much…well, you live in Tennessee, right? Memphis has an NBA team. Maybe they are better fans than we are, at least by your definition.

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When it comes to Horford and Josh . . they BOTH have to become tougher players. That’s the only way we’re going to get to that next level with Al playing C and Josh playing PF. They have to play big and strong, and not just athletic.

I think we all know that the Hawks have a “softness” problem, from JJ on down. Being physical just isn’t in the makeup of this team. I don’t know how any of this changes in the future, without bringing in “tougher players” via a trade.

It’s a reason why those mid 90s San Antonio Spurs teams seem to always lose in the 2nd round. They were way too soft, despite them having talent.

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Grandad,

Thanks. I’ll share a cup with you sometime. And yes, it seems we have a lot in common.

dr.maryb,

My wife of 16 years would be glad to know that I don’t have a girlfriend. And at age 60, I’ve likely done all the growing up I’ll do.

But I refuse to let Truth-serum outright lie about Horford, just because he has a hate agenda for him. If it bothers you, well……. you ARE the Queen of Scroll, right?

Also, if it helps, here is a link which will give you some insight about the “relationship” I have with T-s:

http://blogs.ajc.com/mark-bradley-blog/2009/06/17/say-goodbye-to-marvin-williams-hello-to-caron-butler/comment-page-2/

Read pgs. 2 , 3, and 4 and you’ll get some insight into why I refuse to let him lie.

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Lewis

Great analysis! Great mind!

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Northcyde ,

For the second time since the universe was created…agreed:

When it comes to Horford and Josh . . they BOTH have to become tougher players. That’s the only way we’re going to get to that next level with Al playing C and Josh playing PF. They have to play big and strong, and not just athletic.

In fact, I feel that this is almost precisely why the Detroit Pistons championship team that featured Rasheed Wallace and Ben Wallace, managed to do what they did. Well, that and the fact that they were tough from spots 1 through 5, beginning with the ultra tough Chauncey Billups, the kind of pg I haven’t seen in these parts since…well….

I honestly believe that Al Horford can be that kind of tough. I can’t say the same of Josh Smith, at least not right now. Yes, I said that. Josh Smith fan and all…

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Read NBAdraft.net and saw their analysis of the Hawks, including what they should/could/might do in the draft. Interesting reading.

I wonder if we’ll take a gander at Larry Sanders if he falls to us? Less of a project than Solomon Alabi or Hassan Whiteside (who may not even be available by then, unless realize he’s a shorter Hasheem Thabeet), and fits the tough guy rebounder/defender we could use off the bench. He needs to add weight, though…

Stanley Robinson intrigues me as well.

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Sautee:
Doesn’t sound exactly like Mary Ellen.
‘drmaryb’ – she’s sassy but not mean-spirited.
I wonder if the ‘Hatter’ is posing again.
He’s shrewd.

Let me know about that cup o’ Joe
*[logistics]
we’ll “get ‘er done.

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Dang, I gotta go:
Big Ray:
If we get a shot @ Larry Sanders it will be a blessing from heaven.
Check out my vid from prev. post:
Jerome Randle:
link provided @ 1:14 if I screw this one up.
http://vimeo.com/4895282

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http://www.nba.com/finals2010/index.html live press conference larry drew — for all those who aren’t stuck at work and unable to download flash player

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NorthCyde- Josh and Al are definitely two players i want to keep but,I dont see The Larry Obrien in our future w/h them at the PF/C. I mean Kurt Thomas out tuffed us for stretches and Lets not forget Dwight Howard man handle’n us-He does that to alot of teams but Boston held him in check and I think the reason they did is because of the length and girth-could be the T. Thibeddeau defense as well but the 6′11 250 KG and the 6′10 285 Perkins had a big role in them winning the series We need another big with a decent post game and a bangers mentality.

Lewis-Al is a better overall player IMO but perkins is the better post defender. We wouldnt be a better team with Perkins. Al’s passing,jumper,footwork and ball handling are alot better than Perkins.
If Jj leaves its not the end of the world, i think he will leave which is why we should do a sign and trade with Sacremento and get Jason Thompson/1st rd pick

I also wnat Chillz back on the Team. Its time to bring the fro back home.

Randolph Morris should be resigned and given a chance to see what he can do with consistent minutes. His D still needs work but his touch around the rim and post moves are nice. Bring Siler in as Collins replacement-My gawd he is horrible. I know Siler could have done better than what chesse burger gave us. Waste of a roster spot. While im at it -thanx Joe Smith and Mario its been real…….

With the extra cap space if JJ leaves we should also make a play for Rudy Gay…..Hmmmm just had a vision Pg- Crawford . Sg-Rudy Gay . Sf-JSmith . Pf-Horford . C-J Thompson. This would be a sweet line up running a Houston style offense.

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Larry Drew Press Confrence Live! NOw!

http://www.foxsportssouth.com/pages/liveevents_streaminghawks/

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Grandpa- Hollar at me i got a connect on them blue diamonds.

Big Gay-???? Wow Doc really LOL……… “Whatcha gonna do,Whatcha gonna do, when they come for you”

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Thanks 4 the link OK.

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Mark Jackson was the MAN for the JOB!…

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Whooo!! L.Drew is Smooth lol. FINALLY an intellegent person at the podium!

Uh oh!!! Here comes the Mike Bibby Question Hahahaha!!!1

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Damn I just saw a fine ass girl there. Whew

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Yea it probably was her OK

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i mus ray knows i am playing with him, as the instigator of that moniker is now answering himself as he rants against us all.

well, i look forward to hearing more from mr drew. sounds like he articulates well. has he mentioned rebounding the ball playing defense and working harder, yet? it is all we got to do to win if i remember my woody lessons well.

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OK, I love me some Elle Duncan. Seeing her is worth the price of season tickets. I swear, that lady gets better looking everytime I see her.

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Nobody really important worked out for the Hawks today.

Monday, June 14
Terrico White – 6′5″ shooting guard from Mississippi
Elliott Williams – 6′4″ shooting guard from Memphis
Dominique Jones – 6′5″ shooting guard from South Florida
Manny Harris – 6′5″ shooting guard from Michigan

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OK…watch out for Dominique Jones. That kid can play. I think he was top 5 in getting to the line and top 10 in scoring. Ready to play D in the NBA right now. Same reach as John Wall and a little taller. Get Mark Price to help that man with his 3-pt shot and you’ve got something.

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Melvin & Jo Jo,

I’ll look into these guys, haven’t heard much about them before.

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What this really tells you is that we are cheap!

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@ OK…
You can say a lot of things about Bibby and his lack of D and penetration skills; but he kept us in the game during the first half of Game 7 of the Miami series. Then Joe Johnson finally showed in the late 3rd quarter of the same game.

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it’s sad that coaches get fired because the players don’t do their jobs. jj is like a baby if he don’t win he wants to pout boo hoo. i hope he hawks fall flat on their face next season. i always thought ld wanted woody’s job anyway. lot of backstabbers. can’t wait to see them crash. woody keep your head up.

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@ OK…
You and others are acting like someone is asking for Bibby to be the starter. No, I’m making a retrospective point. I’ve said that from this point forward it is either going to be Jeff Teague’s or another point guard team to run as the lead 1 guard. Bibby is now a guard that should come in to shot 3’s and give relief minutes like Craig Hodges did towards the end of his career.

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Grandad, you are write. I did card you and find you are a card carrying member of the infamous Bubba Crew. I must add, however that you have earned my respect. Yes, no doubt.

Now to the other end of the Bubba Crew spectrum, to the legendary brown ooze of undershorts, Sautee,

When every you twist and distort my comments as you slither along I will not respond. I was injecting sarcasm at the lone vote that horford receive for his defensive critique. I heard that woodson told the coach of the 19# shot blocking center if you will cast your vote for my boy the #18 shot blocking center then will have at the least have the ability to say our center received recognition for his defense.

Actually Horford does get recognition for his defense. Most opposing coaches try to isolate him under the basket to go 1 on 1 with the likes of nate robinson or tony parker. There are many film clips With Al standing under the basket admiring their dunks.

Mike the con n ham planted this story about woodson and his players. I dont give it much credence like I dont give the con ham credence.

I have to agree with the consensus that Perkins is a much better defensive center than Al. I acknowledge that Al’s has a career average of 12 pts, his senior year in college he averaged 13 and last year he averaged 14 and this after Woodson responded to Al’s lack of offense by tweaking it running plays that work with Al’s limited offensive tools. Im not excited about Als offense either. 12-14 point is not exactly going to take the other team out of their game plan or break any one down. Perkins average 6 points last year.

Perkins Defense has more of an impact on the game than Als 12 or 13 points. Id rather have defense strength than an offensive mediocrity.

DEFENSE WIN GAMES.!

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JSS

The miami series was in 09.Can you name a big game or shot Bibby had this year.Hopefully Drew shows lazy bad attitude Bibby out the door asap.

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@doc,
I am disappointed in ASG. I haven’t been as critical of them as others have been largely because I agreed with almost every move except the hiring of Sund. My greatest fear is that we will now see the W-L trend line go in the opposite direction and then the organization goes back into a funk, perhaps even lose Horford next offseason. We, ok I, have just now have gotten use to offseasons where the main focus wasn’t on clearing cap space and stocking drafty picks. I don’t want to go back to start over again.

@Texas Pete,

I can see the argument that the current roster has structural issues. Others have had that discussion as well and it seems that not everyone agrees that there are such issues. I think now that there has been a coaching/philosophical change, I do not see there being much patience for further arguments that the issues are with the guys in the suits (unless they are injured players).

As for whether or not Coach Woodson had to go, I think it there was enough evidence on paper to support his retention. I also think there was enough evidence on the court to warrant his dismissal. This change should/could have been made last offseason as we all knew that the lack of extension likely meant Coach Woodson was a lame duck all along.

What the East will look like next season is a big mystery at this point so it’s hard to predict potential playoff matchups. I will say that given the coaching change and if JJ returns, I don’t buy any arguments as to why this isn’t a 50-win team next season.

Go Hawks!

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Looking at the ajc picture, a lot of players were there. Even Jason Collins (who is not under contract for next year, and who received very litte, if any PT) showed up at Larry Drew’s press conference.

Thats interesting, because only one or two guys (including Randolph Morris) showed up for Crawford’s sixth man of the year presentation.

It’s interesting to hear Drew say “as the assistant, we give information and suggestions to the HC, but it is up to him to use it how he sees fit”.

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JSS

Bibby was the hawks dead weight this year.Bibby at this point in his carreer has regressed significantly.If you watched Bibby this year the guy couldn’t get a shot off when someone played a little defense on him and hurried to get the ball out of his hand when someone played tight d on him.The only time Bibby scores is when he is open and he miss half of his open looks.Bibby had a good run with the Hawks in 08 and 09 but 2010 was a disapointment.

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head coach Larry Drew on Hawk pg Jeff Teague:

“im going to get started on him right away.. i see things in him that this club needs. he has the ability to make other players better.”

“i want to get his confidence level at an all- time high.. b/c as i stated earlier, when a guy has that type of ability you gotta utilize it.”

says alot right there… its a shame that so many promising college talents were mismanaged and ruined under the coaching of Mike Woodson.

by the way… the kid didnt go home to Indy, he’s been here putting in work.

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Remember JJ asked out of Phoenix because he wasn’t getting his touches. Why would he come to a team that is supposed to built around him, and share the ball?

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From the SLAM interview.

Not all five guys necessarily being scorers, but all five guys being a threat. We have the capability of obviously Joe having a big night, or Josh Smith or Al having a big night, even the capability of Marvin having a big night. And Jamal coming off the bench is obviously a guy who can score in bunches. We just want to add a few things, subtract a few things just to make us a better ballclub.

Marvin having a big night? I hope so, because that would definitely help the Hawks out a lot, in more ways than one.

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Truth-serum,

So you are going to run away and hide like a little girl? No offense ladies as most of you have more courage than he does..

You claimed that the only reason Horford made the All-Star game is because of Shaq announcing that he had a thumb injury and that he would not play.

I say that’s BS. Shaq DID have a thumb injury but it was TWO WEEKS AFTER the All-Star Game!

Care to give us that link that shows your “story” to be true? Even dr.maryb, who has praised your posts on occasion thinks that no such link exists.

C’mon T-s, prove me wrong. Make me apologize in front of the blog. You can do it.

Not.

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WE WILL NOT OFFER HORFORD AN EXTENSION. ANY CONTRACT OVER 5M A YEAR IS A RIPOFF IN OUR MINDS

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No we gonna keep joe but we wouldnt mind trading Marvin for Dalembert

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@ Big Dave…
Teague has done 110% more in staying here this off season and getting at it than Acie did in two full seasons in the organization… Good for him…

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JSS..

i dont think it would’ve mattered if Woodson was his (Acie’s) head coach.. i dont think Chris Paul gets off Woodson’s bench.

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JSS..

in fact, i happen to believe that Acie was the better college player. however, i am pleased to know that he is here working. i always felt that leadership comes from the PG position. i am eager to see the Jeff Teague that was raved about during last year summer league and camp.. in watching Jeff in limited action this year he appears to have the ability to set up his teammates at will, thats if he isnt just passing it to Joe or Jamal on the wing. now our bigs etc finishing is another story.

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They are interviewing Sekou Smith on TV. Not only he said Woody had problems with Josh Smith but Anthony Johnson, Josh Childress, ZaZa and Mo Evans.. Also he said that many times it was Drew who came between Josh and Woody. And Drew and Josh has a great relationship….

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Looks like this is how it came down: he was the cheapest, so we hired him.

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JSS.. true.

Melvin..

remember when Childress had to separate ZaZa and Woody after center court during the Bos. series. after Woodson tried to get Za Za off the floor and Za Za wanted to pump up the crowd after the KG fiasco..

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no respect.

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bigdave

aaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh Man those was the days you brought back some good memories with that one!

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“Grandpa- Hollar at me i got a connect on them blue diamonds.”

lol..

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Bibby sure talks big for the WORST guard in the NBA. He is the WORST defensive player in the NBA. The worst for 6 million. Sad.

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I like what I hear from Drew. I love hearing how Teague has been here the whole time putting in the work. Drew said he is going to start on him immediately. Seeing guys who aren’t even under contract show up to his press conference says a lot about what the players think of Drew. If he installs the offense he is talking about, holds everyone accountable, has competition for spots, and develops Teague then I will be happy.

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I MUS / bigdave / Terry Crews:

I had to go look it up.
Now that was funny.
Obviously, Ive never had a need for any;
much like I never had a need for an XL condom.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQjY3M-X3h0&feature=PlayList&p=630BBC0F36EA914B&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=20

protect the rim

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Sautee

I’m sorry, please accept my apology to you and the wife. I hope we never get into a debate. LOL!

But, you had already squashed T-Serum. He has no answer to your question and he has no link for you. I love all you real bloggers especially the logical and passionate guys that come with STATS & FACTS!

T-Serum is my dude. I love reading his posts, sometimes we say things in the heat of passion and may get carried away and say something that’s off base, but lying? That’s a strong word.
I love Horford – big time! He’s the only player on our team and most teams that has won two championships back to back!

Albeit in college – the character required to do something like that transcends levels!
Even, though T-Serum likes to razzle The Boss – I value his difference of opinions. As, many others.

Again, Sautee & Wife – I’m sorry for the rude comment!

Friends?

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcSoL9iCM90&feature=PlayList&p=630BBC0F36EA914B&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=18

I hope this help you get your average up from 12 pts a game career wise Horford. Ive given up on trying to get you to play defense. That aint happening.

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Coach Drew is talking a good game. Re-signing impending free agent Joe Johnson was a priority, as was getting Johnson to share the ball on offense. Forward Josh Smith will be positioned near the basket and not on the perimeter.

I hope he does what he can to back it up. 2 other parts jump out at me from MC’s article;

By the end of Drew’s news conference, every player on Atlanta’s 2009-10 roster except for Johnson and Joe Smith had filed in to show support. So far, it seems like all the players like him a lot.

According to to people with knowledge of the team’s evaluations, management concerns involved Woodson’s entire program.

So maybe it was a house of cards after all.

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I just listened to Sekou on NBA Tv and I knew that alotta the players couldn’t stand Woody.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1qGjUXcjWs

Me Too Blue Ray!

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You can all view the entire press confrence again here:

http://www.foxsportssouth.com/06/14/10/Hawks-Introduce-Drew-as-Head-Coach/landing.html?blockID=253580&feedID=4354

It’s way more in-depth than MC’s article, no offense MC.

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dr.maryb,

Friends indeed. No problem, as my daughter always says.

As far as the lying thing goes…if you KNOW something to be untrue, but keep saying it AFTER you know…..well maybe there are kinder words for that, but I call that like I see it.

It’s funny how within all the “stuff” that has gone on between T-s and me, HE is the one to call names, and get derogatory over a freakin’ difference of opinion on a blog. His 6:22 post is a good example. I’m glad to not carry that kind of misery around. I’ll call him out, but I will not stoop to that crap (pun intended).

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Truth-Serum

Correction: IF we ALL agreed – There would be no BLOG, just a bunch of yes men!
I LOVE the Truth – Serum it’s like “Pheno-Barbitol”
Sautee

Thank you Sir – for being so friendly! I LOVE YOU!

Blue-Ray
(Sharper – Image ion 3D)

IF you endorse Sautee? That’s ALL I need to know! I will always follow your lead! You are MY man! Forever!
You and save lives for a living! And apparently, relationships too! I LOVE YOU too!

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Grand-Daddy

I’m so glad you’re still a blogging fool! I didn’t get a chance to call Dr. Pigeon today.
Sorry, but my lobby was jammed packed ALL day today. Monday’s are always full throttle!

Tuesday, I don’t see patients, so – I will call him tomorrow and send that info to you!
How’s my baby?

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tried to post some links to some Hawks coverage from 790 today. it says, “comment is awaiting moderation” . so in the event that it doesnt post check out http://www.790thezone.com/instantreplay/

MC on there.. Sekou.. and on Pollack’s show Shapiro asked coach Drew about the offense..

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drmaryb, correction just a bunch of yes men and women. guys are not the only ones that visit this blog on occasion. okay, butting out now.

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Mz. Hawkdafied

-sniggles- I don’t know how to make those fancy hearts – sorry sister!

I stand corrected! What’s up home-gurl?
Most days, I could use a book end for that 1 – 2 punch!

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Mike is back I saw that on NBATV. According to a lot of the second unit guys, while in practice Drew always came up with some nice plays and guys were sharing the ball. I also thought it would be great if we could add a guy like The Dream to the coaching staff but I don’t know if he would be interested in coaching. He might just be fine with helping guys in the summer but it wouldn’t hurt to call him and see if he would like to try it. And once again I love it that Teague is here busting his azz trying to get better. I wish a few other cats on the team had better drive. We all know Josh and big Al do. I think this is a big summer for Marvin. He has to show that he wants it or its time to move on.

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Not seeing any positives here……If Drew turns out to be a tactician who wins the respect of the team…..I’ll reconsider.

If things were as bad as pictured (players quitting on the coach) why are they still on the roaster and why wasn’t a change made sooner?

Maybe it’s time to get another hobby…….

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As much as I hate ISO Joe, that was a problem usually reserved for the end of the game. We were getting killed by Orlando way before that stage in the game. Looks like Joe wants to go and I’m fine with that, but we need to at least see what we can get for him with a sign and trade.

Trade checker shows that Joe + Zaza for Okafor and M. Peterson works. We get a good Center for a guy who want to leave anyway, and can play Al at his natural 4.

Tyson Chandler is leaning towards opting out, so what about a sign and trade Joe for Tyson Chandler (maybe a 3 way trade cause Joe won’t want to go to Charlotte). Move Al to 4, Josh to 3, have Marvin come off the bench, start Crawford. Chandler is less expensive than Joe so use the extra cap space to get someone who can create his own shot (John Salmons or maybe Jordan Crawford from the draft) off the bench.

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Mary Ellen;

I tried to take a brief respite from the blog
because it was getting like golf. Not the blog itself
but the Hawks. Instead of providing past-time, I was
allowing things I had no control over, to tick me off.
As in my perception that the ASG had over-ridden
Mr. Sund’s decision. That type of thing happened to me
enough times in my career that I felt his pain.
Never once did I have any animosity toward LD.
Everthing I’m hearing him say is positive.
Regardless, he is not Woody. I know you & I differ
on that topic but change any change was necessary for
everyone’s mental hlth. [on this blog]

However, each time I tried to step away for a few days
my friends (community) & my passion (Basketball)
kept drawing me back in. Where else am I going to get my
B-ball fix in June. Usually I’m in the thick of my summer
program [b-ball] but retirement (unplanned) is not fun.
There are those who look forward to retiring – not so here.

This community keeps me in touch with my 3rd love.
[God & family = 1 & 2 of course]
anyway trying to take a blog break only gave me LESS to do.

In & out, G-dad.

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As much as I didn’t like Woody, coaching wasn’t the only thing wrong with this team. We need more talent.

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Sam’l,

Although I’m not a big fan of the Drew signing, one of the positives is he already knows what a lot of the issues are with this team, because he had courtside seats for every game. Knowing what the issues are gives him a head start with coming up with solutions.

Another positive is he already has a working relationship with JJ (which appears to be a good relationship). So he can help recruit JJ better than one of the new guys could (except for Avery Johnson maybe).

One of the keys for me will depend on his coaching staff. I hope he doesn’t bring back all the guys from last year.

Like you, I do have my doubts. But as a Hawks fan, I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

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Sam’L

And, even after all that? We need to know IF Joe will stay or go here. If he sign’s with another team, that team will need a S & T to make room on their roster (something about Cap & Trade?). And, we would have to agree or not to any trade or Joe walks for nothing in return!

That’s basic baskÞball 101 broken down for you by a female! SMH!

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Sam’L

I apologize – I mis – read your post.
I thought you said – Why haven’t the Hawks made a player move yet?
But, you said – Why haven’t Hawks made a player move sooner?

I agree with you 100 %. I was extremely irritated when we did nothing aþ the trade deadline and, nothing major in the last off season outside of SMOY! That’s why I hold the GM more accountable than Woodson, or just as! For his lack of player movement!

There should have been NO untouchables on this roster- especially Marvin! But, to Sund’s defense – Who knew Marvin would lay an egg? Childress situation was severely mis-handled.
But, let’s admit – Sam’L – we have no trade able parts on that bench except maybe Zsa or SMOY!
I guess we thought we would make more noise in these play offs!

Again, my bad! But this blackberry is almost impossible to read from & type on. Uuggh!
-smiles-

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Glad to see the conversation is moving towards free agency and the draft. I appreciated Drews comments, now we’ve gotta see if the players buy into the system and when they don’t if Drew can effectively hold them accountable.

Okafur and Chandler are serviceable centers in this league. They’ve fallen out of favor with their teams b/c of the high expectations. We might have those as well, but right now I think we need someone servicable at center to allow Al to move to PF. By doing that we’ll now have 3 players on the block? Can Tyson hit jumpers to allow Josh the space down low he’ll need?

Will Josh develop that short jumper like Al to help spread the offense. Nothing much more than just outside the paint. Why must Josh shoot 1/2″ inside the 3 to prove he’s not stupid enough to shoot 3 pointers? It’s the same thing!

I like the thoughts of Bibby headed to the bench. No disrespect to Bibby, but it’s time for Teague to show what he can do with a real shot, a committed to Teague shot to help this team grow. Bibby can support this team with timely baskets and veteran leadership at key times and from the bench. I wouldn’t mind seeing another point guard option to add speed, possibly the 3 and some D. Is that out there?

Who do we keep from our roster last year? Joe – we need to convince him we can treat him differently. Better ball movement, fewer touches, but identical or better stats due to better use of his energy. No more superstar iso’s – treat him like the great catch and shoot guard he is! Randolph to me deserves another chance and a real shot for minutes. Mario – I don’t see him sticking with the team with Drew in charge. Joe Smith – good option, but what does he want? Collins – Could’ve been a serviceable backup, what’s his committment level? Hunter – don’t we have new options? Siler – what’s he look like after a year in China? Chills – is he even willing to come back or willing to be traded?

My main question is what’s Marvin up to? What are his thoughts about the summer, about Drew, about his plans to show us something next season? What does Drew intend to do to extract our expensive lump of coal and turn it into a diamond from the rough.

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BigDave

@ 813 PM that You-tube link was wild! Wow!

Based on what I’m hearing – maybe Woodson was the BONE of contention of the chemistry issues IF he had personality conflicts with all those players? Wow!

The HC is supposed to push different buttons with all the different players! More so than treating everybody the same. It is so psychological at the

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1st Question….Are the Hawks better off if Joe Johnson comes back on a 5-yr $90M deal (let’s say starting at $16.5M this year) -or- if Joe walks, we bring back Childress on a 4-yr $27.5M (let’s say starting at $5.75M this year) and sign another wing like R. Brewer, M. Miller, J. Salmons, or A. Morrow with a 3-yr deal somewhere at or under the MLE…..In summary, are we better off with Joe and little to no room for additional players, or are we better off with the deeper team?

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For those who can appreciate Al Horford…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOmH8wO2yfg&feature=related

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The biggest Q can the hawks trade marvin ?
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!

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Enter your comments here

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I don’t wanna call LD a bum, but I will call this a bum-hire by ASG! They took the cheap way out and will pay for it in the end. We went from a team on the rise to being ushered back to the basement. SMH

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Thanks Ray, I’m just 100% focussed on how to make our team better!

Question with Joe will probaly take all summer. Teams with lots of cash will wait on Lebron, Wade, Bosh and Amare to sign. Joe, unfortunately will be 2nd fiddle. Maybe not, but I’m guessing so.

With that said waiting on what offer will secure him will cost us time signing other free agents. We’ll get Joe at a discount or nothing if we wait too long? Is that what we want? Who can we immediately sign to replace him? Would they be better? How committed is Joe to buying into Drew’s system? Does he want to be here? Will he like being here if nobody makes a big offer and we get him on the cheap?

I definitely like JoJo’s thoughts. If I knew we were getting several rising quality players in place of Joe I might take that chance. If Joe leaves and we get nothing all our eggs are in Marvin’s basket. He’s great at laying eggs, but I don’t think that’s what I was hoping for.

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Darrell – I’m all for signing one? What about the Chandler or Okafur options? I tend to like them better than Haywood? How can you bash our roster when Woodson didn’t use the centers he had on the bench? I know we bash Randolph and Collins for their 2 minute stints on Howard but how could they be prepared? To defend someone like Howard you need consistent solid minutes in the rotation. I think Randolph showed promise. Collins has been a decent backup for many teams. Neither got a shot here under Woodson? Do we want Randolph and Collins back? Who can we get besides Chandler, Okafur or Haywood? Do you think we can get Haywood from Dallas or will he be the next Gortat?

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Honestly, JJ is big, a solid defender, creative on offense but slow to get anything done. If Childress is not coming back, we could pull a Paul Pierce and turn JJ, for the latter part of his career, into a bigger, slower, rebounding, passing and shooting SF.

PG – Teague
SG – Jamal Crawford
SF – Joe Johnson
PF – Josh Smith
C – Al Horford

is our most offensively powerful lineup if people are willing to share the ball.
But i’m under the impression that Jamal and Joe can’t co-exist in a successful, ball moving offense, nor would Jamal be able to do anything on defense against guys like Kobe, D-Wade, premiere sg’s. Then again, Kobe’s been dropping 38 on Ray Allen, and Boston’s about to win a championship, so maybe it wouldn’t even matter?

Then, there’s the chance of,

PG – Teague
SG – Joe Johnson
SF – Josh Childress
PF – Josh Smith
C – Al Horford

or

PG – Teague
SG – Jamal Crawford
SF – Josh Childress
PF – Josh Smith
C – Al Horford

or, my biggest fear,

PG – Teague
SG – Jamal Crawford
SF – Marvin Williams
PF – Josh Smith
C – Al Horford

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I like Tyson Chandler enough that if he opted out I would offer him the full MLE over 5 years (I think like 5 yrs $34M for a 27 yr old). The understanding would be that he would come off the bench and play in combinations with Josh at PF and Horford on bench, Horford at PF and Josh on bench, and Horford at PF and Josh at SF. Getting him 20-25 minutes a game off the bench. Keeping his minutes down should help him to stay healthy. Still not sure why he would opt out with $12.5M on the table for this year though.

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Darrell

True, but we also got exposed in the backcourt. Badly.

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Lewis i like the second option better you don’t want 2 starte jamal he bring that spark of the bench 2 up lift the team.
STARTE TEAGUE, JOE, CHILDRESS, JOSH, HORFORD.
GO HAWLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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fundamentals, nice synopsis of what sword woody fell on. he rode certain horses hard without allowing others to grow. you are right, performance didnt matter when it came to play time. he would say it is all about practice and being ready, then he wouldnt reward playing which is where the rubber meets the road. yeah athletes have egos too, which require rewards other than pay day is my guess.

53 wins is nothing to sneer at. i wish woody had been able to somehow keep it together at the end of the season. that is where the coaching begins anew. i hope drew can draw on his background with the team and seriously look these guys in the eye and say this is what is expected and get it from the get go and continue it throughout the season and have guys get better in the end.

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Did anybody on the team like Woody? Seriously.

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Fundamentals, I think Chicago will go after Joe, especially since Wade basically said he didn’t want to go back home to the Windy City, because they’re not loyal to their players. And JJ wouldn’t mind being Robin instead of Batman(Rose) as opposed to Wade.

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Your’re dead on with the Marvin/Jenkins comparison D Starks. lol!

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If they do I hope it’s early and lucrative. If we’re going to lose Joe we need it to happen quickly to give us all possible options. Do they have the cap or who would they prefer to sign and trade? Don’t get me wrong I’d love to keep Joe, but he’s the one who needs to decide. I just pray it’s not another Josh Smith or Marvin type deal where we wait to long or pay too much too early.

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1 and done =
AGENT HARRINGTON.
STARTER, TEAGUE, JOE, AFRO PUFF, JOSH, HORFORD,
BENCH BIBBY, JAMAL, HARRINGTON, ZAZA, ALABI
RESERVE MARVIN, MORRIS.

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lewis

June 15th, 2010
9:30 am

The object is to win not participate.

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Fundamentals, they cant pay him as much as the Hawks can, but it’s close. I think? Question is, where does he think he has the best chance to win?
Rose/JJ/Deng//Noah or Teague/JJ/Josh/Al
A sign and trade could happen though. Something like Hinrich/Gibson/Flip for Joe.

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The Hawks owners are really Cheap and don’t care about getting a winner! I am not convinced that Larry Drew will sit, fine, suspend players who continue to do what Woody let them do: play bad, not give it their all, hog the ball, break the rules, and get into trouble off the court. I saw a recent photo of the Hawks team at a meeting and they were all slouched on the floor not paying any attention. Drew will not change that. The team needs a leader, not a friend. The Hawks don’t need another Obama!!

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I think the Hawks should sign Joe for a 6 year/ $98.5 million deal with the 6th year being a team option.

I wonder if the Hornets would consider a Marvin and Zaza for Okafor deal.

Big Ray, if the Hawks just flat out renounce the rights to Childress (what I wish they would do), then the Hawks would be better off. With the 7-8 million that Childress is counting against the cap space, the Hawks would be able to add Brewer and Miller (I’d prefer Miller over Morrow). The Hawks would be able to do this WHILE still keeping Joe. Think about this back court depth, Teague, Joe, Crawford, Bibby, Brewer, and Mike Miller. Those six would provide GREAT depth at PG, SG, and SF, with Josh, Horford, Okafor (off the bench), Morris, and draft picks solidifying the front court.

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Want-a-Weener! ( Cont’d. )

……Just NOT Boris Yelkin! How ironic that he’s the guy that tried to block the – Boris Diaw – for Joe Johnson trade! A shrewd play on evading words? ROF.

Bottom line is this – We have a team that Improved every year! The core was maintained! Even to do that – we stretched and re-signed players that maybe we shouldn’t have… But in the SPIRIT of trying to give us a product? No ONE is perfect! T leat we don’t have Jermaine Oneal sitting on our bench at $23 million per year or, Gilbert (shooting blanks none-the-less shooting in the locker room) Arenas!

Give credit where credit is DUE! Again, we could be the basement buddy to the CLIPPERS!

Not!

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yes, I KNEW you were foolin’. So was I.

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What is CHEAP?

Not spending 4mil a year on a coach in a players league…Is that Cheap?

Not wanting to losing 20mil a year on a mediocre basketball team(i,e. Mark Cuban)…is that cheap?

Not overpaying for player(i,e. Joe Johnson)…is that cheap?

Is OKC or Portland cheap? There payroll is less than the hawks.

Not wanting to pay a luxury tax on a basketball team in a football city…is that cheap?

I DON’T THINK ASG ARE CHEAP….I THINK THEY ARE GOOD BUSINESS MEN…I THINK THE OWNERS OF THE KNICKS, MAVS, MAGIC, HORNETS AND JAZZ ARE STUPID!

The NBA has a bad business structure…Stop blaming ASG for being good business men and blame the NBA for there SALARY CAP STRUCTURE. If the NBA had a HARD CAP, we might be the best team in the league.

P.S. The Hawks are a successful franchise(53 wins, 3 straight playoff appearances) …just in case you didn’t know

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Sautee
(Baby)
– tell the wife – please don’t get me?

But, if I said Stevie B,? My post would be deleted before it even aired? LOL!
(The black blog hole)

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Terrell
(Don’t call me T.O.)!

Man, time does heal ALL wounds!
I – am starting to think, maybe, we should NOT pay Joe Max-Money!

Based on Ken S analogy of a $100 bill -vs- 5 $20 bills? It’s the dollar – dollar bill yall!
Since we ain’t got NO money anyways – we should be smart with our money!

Besides, Joe will NEVER find another Major Market team – in a city like this that – Won’t NAIL his balls to.the walls for what he said RE: “I don’t care IF the fans come or NOT?”

New York media would have burned his house down after the TURD he laid!
To date, he still hasn’t apologized, That is really bothering me and does speak very LOUDLY to his lack of character!

I say, “Bump that noise & Bump – Joe!”

Let’s do what Ken S. Said & spread that peanut butter around the bread!

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O’Brien, Okafor’s contract is not as horrible as Marvin and Zaza’s contracts combined. Its easy to find a SF, and in the plan that I showed where by doing this trade and renouncing the rights to Childress, the Hawks would be able to add Brewer and Miller. Joe, Brewer, and Miller can each play the 2 and three without giving up size. In only 28 minutes a game, Okafor still averaged 10 ppg, and 9rpg. Tell me that he couldn’t easily find 28 minutes backing up Horford and Josh (That would still leave Horford and Josh playing 34 minutes per game). Any day I’d take Okafor, Brewer, and Mike Miller over Zaza, Marvin and an UNUSED Childress (who doesn’t want to come back to Atlanta).

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To me – it seems as though Woodson ran the highest paid team onto the floor. Maybe, thinking that would appease upper management!

That logic failed – miserably!

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Without trades, the only way we can add two mid-tier free agents (First year salary from $2.5M-$5.7M) is if Josh Childress is one of them.

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Did anyone see the video where Larry was asked if he was going to shave his eye-brows, to which Larry responded, “I have my own way of motivating players.” I think it’s on AtlantaHawks.com.

Did we ever get down to the bottom of why Woodson shaved the eyebrows?
Am I the last person to find out, by Larry Drew’s implications, that Woodson shaved his eye brows in an effort to motivate players?

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Ramon,

I didn’t look at the numbers, but Allen and Pierce are popular, big name NBA players that sell tickets. Allen is one of the best shooters ever, Pierce is “the truth” when it comes to knocking down those mid range jumpers. Either way, KG isn’t coming in as a borderline superstar / player leader at the closing point of his career to lead JJ to a championship.

You are not worth a max contract if you are not a leader, not a big name NBA player, not exciting, not going to sell tickets, and not show any emotion other than frustration on the court. You are not worth a max contract as a #2.

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Big Ray:

from yesterday, I was thinking J.Randle could be our Nate,
[to Teaguer] as * “Donkey” * is to Rondo.
*(Leaving either Al to be or “Shrek” or drafting Dex.Pitt/’Shrek’)

darrell starks:
My dear friend, Solomon Alabi = great kid.
I fear he is not ready to contribute.
Very weak lower body strength, rail thin legs,
DH will displace [abuse] him in the post simply establishing pos.
* ALSO red flag * [surgical foot/feet ???]
There is always a reason talented 7 ftr’s drop to 24.

Fundamentals / d s / Big Ray [redux]:

Ty Chandler’s best days were when C.Paul was tossin’
him those easy oops for high % shots – aka dunks.
Under the aforementioned circumstances;
Haywood = better fit.
Better defender & he had a re-birth last yr.
*conditioning* He’s playing younger than his age.
Also less $$$.

I started this post an hr. ago./ got distracted.

In & out.

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Lewis, I understand what you’re saying. But I think Joe is underrated more than overrated to be honest. I don’t think Joe is worth the Max no. Only NBA players who are worth the max are Kobe, Dwight Howard, Lebron, Wade, Durant, and Duncan. Those are the only max players in my vocabulary. lol.

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Ramon,

Horford is due a big pay raise next year. If we trade for okafor, then we will have ~$35 mil tied up in Josh, okafor and horford. I think that’s too much.

I like Ronnie Brewer (I like Matt barnes too). And both of those guys are cheaper than childress.

We do need a shooter, which Mike Miller is. But I think jj redick or Anthony morrow (both restricted however ) would be cheaper.

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ya’ll talking about 53 games hell he could have won 60 or more if he used his bench and get the ball out of J J hand and run some played instead of that ISO mess.

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O’Brien, last season we had $34 mil tied up in Bibby, Crawford, and Joe. Also when Al is due his raise, Crawford and Bibby are coming off the books.

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Exactly Big Ray. Its like what Sekou said in a interview. Most fans were more concerned about a big name hire rather than if the guy can coach or if he is a good fit for the team. lol terrell. I don’t think many players liked Woodson at all. Sekou named about 6 players in that one interview I heard. Pachulia looked as if he had won the lottery when they were asking him about Drew. Im going to look at the free agents list later and throw some names out there of guys who could possibly come cheap and help out.

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“”"”"”"Even without JJ, with a more versatile starting SF, and Teague @ PG, we could be just as effective offensively with a SG that plays good DEF and averages in the 14-16PPG range. If JJ resigns, I’d like to see him moved to SF and we still sign a DEF minded SG with some OFF skill.”"”"”"

EUREKA.

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http://www.nba.com/2010/news/06/15/summer.league/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt2 — 2010 Summer League Schedule Announced

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Lewis

Fools Gold….JJ ain’t moving to sf he has all the leverage if he resigns and sf ain’t part of the deal.

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Rondo,
I know, believe me, I know.
He left PHX for more touches, he’s not going to stay in ATL to move to SF.
Pierce did it for Allen tho.

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and by the way, KERR just dipped from the SUNS organization http://www.nba.com/2010/news/06/15/kerr.suns/index.html

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CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP!
CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP!
CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP!
CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP!

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Cheap, but competitive. The ASG way
1st team: Teague/Crawford/JJ/Josh/Al
2nd team: Earl Watson/Mo Evans/Damien Wilkins/Marvin/Kurt Thomas
End of the bench:Bibby/Zaza/Randolph Morris/

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Kerr was more than likely told to leave, or we’ll help you leave. lol! Unless he just thought this team was done, which it probably is if Amare leaves.

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O ( + >

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Larry Drew gets me tingling, no homo.

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