Atlanta Hawks: Players say Drew isn’t Woody 2
LD, second from right, moves over to Woody's spot (Curtis Compton/ccompton@ajc.com)
It wouldn’t be a bad thing in the larger sense if LD is another Woody. In the aftermath of the recent postseason disappointment, it’s easy to forget Woody led the Hawks to one of their better seasons after helping them rise up from their status as laughingstocks. But Rick Sund said the Hawks needed “another voice,” after all, so there’s some understandable skepticism when they hired Woody’s right-hand man to be the “new” voice.
Clearly Atlanta believes LD offers something distinct from Woody. The Hawks hired him after rejecting not just Woody but his entire program. Promoting his lead assistant means they don’t think LD got much of a chance to put his stamp on that program. And the Hawks are telling you that not only do they expect LD’s way to be better than Woody’s way, but that he’s the guy to guide them to the next level even though he’s never been in the head coach’s seat before.
Anybody making snap judgments about the legitimacy of those views is just guessing. Sund and ASG made their choice. LD gets his shot to win over skeptics. At some point it will become clear if he’s the right choice.
I talked to some players this weekend, and all of them said they expect LD’s approach to be different than Woody’s. Drew often ran the second-team offense in practice and was said to deploy creative sets, with one player describing them as a “fun” departures from the isolations. Another player said when things went badly for the Hawks, LD tended to be more of an “encourager” than a “screamer” and focused his energy on laying out a detailed plan for how the Hawks can get better.
The players have better insight into LD than the rest of us, and so it’s significant that he enjoys wide support among them. But they can’t be sure how Drew the assistant will work out as Drew the head coach. His relationships with players will be tested. Now LD has the final say on how the run the team, including playing time and touches, and players inevitably aren’t going to like some of his decisions.
It’s probably not much different than most real-life workplaces when your direct boss becomes the “big boss.” It happened to me at a previous job. I knew that when my supervisor became the department’s boss our relationship would necessarily change. Where once he would go into his boss’s office as my advocate, and sometimes privately agree with my gripes, suddenly I was griping to someone else about his decisions. We talked every day when he was my direct supervisor; when he became the department head and had wider responsibilities, sometimes the explanations came down through the chain of command, and sometimes not at all.
I knew that when he was promoted my boss had to put some of that “command distance” between us. I’m not saying I always liked it but I accepted the circumstances and did my job. It’s not an exact analogy, I know, but Hawks players now have to do much the same with Drew. It’s part of being a professional.
That raises another important point. It’s not just ASG, Sund and LD who are under pressure. The players have a lot to prove, too. It’s fair to critique Woody’s strategies, his management of the team, and his failure to bring along Rook’. But, in what’s probably a common NBA tale, the players whom Woody treated like pros and gave some degree of say in their working conditions eventually let him down (and that’s before you even get into the issues with his roster, which is another blog altogether).
The players credited Woody with creating a loose atmosphere that made it enjoyable for them to come to work but then they didn’t get serious when it was time to do so. Woody backed off from the long, hard and frequent practices players didn’t like and in the end they didn’t work as hard as they should. Woody gave them on-court freedom (especially J.J.) and instead of taking that trust and becoming a free-flowing offensive team, they became a selfish “get mine” kind of team–and resisted Woody’s efforts to get them to share the ball.
Now Hawks players get a replacement for Woody whom they know and like. The new voice in charge is a familiar one and the internal hire causes fewer disruptions and less uncertainty. As one player said, now it’s up to him and his teammates to support Drew by getting on board with his program, respecting his decisions even if they don’t like them and sacrificing for the team.
Otherwise, no matter if LD draws up better plays, holds all guys accountable and develops the next Rook’, he might end up just like Woody did in the end.
MC
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399 comments Add your comment
JuliusCesaer
June 15th, 2010
12:47 pm
The Hawks should sell the team and move to another city. They are an embarrassment to the 30 other major league NBA teams.
Rufus1
June 15th, 2010
12:55 pm
What is CHEAP?
Not spending 4mil a year on a coach in a players league…Is that Cheap?
Not wanting to losing 20mil a year on a mediocre basketball team(i,e. Mark Cuban)…is that cheap?
Not overpaying for player(i,e. Joe Johnson)…is that cheap?
Is OKC or Portland cheap? There payroll is less than the hawks.
Not wanting to pay a luxury tax on a basketball team in a football city…is that cheap?
I DON’T THINK ASG ARE CHEAP….I THINK THEY ARE GOOD BUSINESS MEN…I THINK THE OWNERS OF THE KNICKS, MAVS, MAGIC, HORNETS AND JAZZ ARE STUPID!
The NBA has a bad business structure…Stop blaming ASG for being good business men and blame the NBA for there SALARY CAP STRUCTURE. If the NBA had a HARD CAP, we might be the best team in the league.
P.S. The Hawks are a successful franchise(53 wins, 3 straight playoff appearances) …just in case you didn’t know
O'Brien
June 15th, 2010
1:01 pm
Ramon,
Okafor’s contract is horrible (4 years, $52 million), so I would pass on him. Plus if we trade Marvin, we still need to get a SF.
If we renounce Chills, Kyle Korver would be the guy I would go after.
And I doubt if JJ takes 6 years, $99 mil, when other teams can offer him 5 years, $93 mil.
drmaryb
June 15th, 2010
1:16 pm
Sautee
(Baby)
– tell the wife – please don’t get me?
But, if I said Stevie B,? My post would be deleted before it even aired? LOL!
(The black blog hole)
terrell
June 15th, 2010
1:23 pm
No way I tie up 100 million $ on a guy who shows no heart when it counts. No way. We’re already suffering Bibby, Zaza, and Ducks contracts. Why make it worse, with Horford coming up next year?
drmaryb
June 15th, 2010
1:42 pm
Terrell
(Don’t call me T.O.)!
Man, time does heal ALL wounds!
I – am starting to think, maybe, we should NOT pay Joe Max-Money!
Based on Ken S analogy of a $100 bill -vs- 5 $20 bills? It’s the dollar – dollar bill yall!
Since we ain’t got NO money anyways – we should be smart with our money!
Besides, Joe will NEVER find another Major Market team – in a city like this that – Won’t NAIL his balls to.the walls for what he said RE: “I don’t care IF the fans come or NOT?”
New York media would have burned his house down after the TURD he laid!
To date, he still hasn’t apologized, That is really bothering me and does speak very LOUDLY to his lack of character!
I say, “Bump that noise & Bump – Joe!”
Let’s do what Ken S. Said & spread that peanut butter around the bread!
lewis
June 15th, 2010
1:44 pm
Spirit does not know how to properly distribute funds. They save money by hiring cheap coaches (although i think LD is at least as good a hire as Woodson), and waste money by signing over-rated bench players. One would think you could count on them to be, how can i say this, frugally conscience, and not keep JJ. But the Bibby, Marvin and Zaza contracts beg to differ. Don’t forget, like Bibby, Marv and Zaza, JJ is a prime candidate to get big $ and regress. You know this Spirit, please, not again. We’ve got a few pieces, just need a few more, not including JJ.
Feel free to hate.
Ramon
June 15th, 2010
2:00 pm
O’Brien, Okafor’s contract is not as horrible as Marvin and Zaza’s contracts combined. Its easy to find a SF, and in the plan that I showed where by doing this trade and renouncing the rights to Childress, the Hawks would be able to add Brewer and Miller. Joe, Brewer, and Miller can each play the 2 and three without giving up size. In only 28 minutes a game, Okafor still averaged 10 ppg, and 9rpg. Tell me that he couldn’t easily find 28 minutes backing up Horford and Josh (That would still leave Horford and Josh playing 34 minutes per game). Any day I’d take Okafor, Brewer, and Mike Miller over Zaza, Marvin and an UNUSED Childress (who doesn’t want to come back to Atlanta).
drmaryb
June 15th, 2010
2:08 pm
Lewis
I am beginning to FEEL you baby. I really am, for the first time – I am falling off the Joe Johnson drunk wagon!
I really am! However, when you look at Boston? How far will the youth movement take you?
I mean, we can’t have too many kids around.
drmaryb
June 15th, 2010
2:15 pm
To me – it seems as though Woodson ran the highest paid team onto the floor. Maybe, thinking that would appease upper management!
That logic failed – miserably!
JoJo the Godfather
June 15th, 2010
2:16 pm
Ramon…you can’t sign Brewer & Miller. All you have to work with is the MLE. How do you expect to be under the cap when you just signed Joe back? If you renounced Joe, Chill and all other free agents, THEN you’d have roughly $8M to work with but you’d lose the MLE…..Bottom line(s): Joe & Chill puts us over luxury tax….Joe & MLE puts us over luxury tax…..If Joe stays, you’ll have roughly $64M committed to 9 roster spots: (Teague/Bibby/Johnson/Crawford/Evans/Williams/Smith/Horford/Pachulia).
JoJo the Godfather
June 15th, 2010
2:24 pm
Without trades, the only way we can add two mid-tier free agents (First year salary from $2.5M-$5.7M) is if Josh Childress is one of them.
lewis
June 15th, 2010
2:27 pm
Thing about Kobe, KG, Allen, Pierce, Nash, older guys who are getting paid by championship calibur teams, is that they were all fairly effective as leaders and in the playoffs before they signed their last big contracts. They are all ballers, age isn’t going to change that. Now, Joe? Not a proven leader. Not a proven playoff contender. A solid defender and offensive ISO specialist. Yes, he’s a great player and doesn’t get in trouble off the court either, but he’s worth about 6 years 90m tops. That on top of the fact that I and I really only want him for the next 2-3 years because Woody overplayed him.
lewis
June 15th, 2010
2:32 pm
Did anyone see the video where Larry was asked if he was going to shave his eye-brows, to which Larry responded, “I have my own way of motivating players.” I think it’s on AtlantaHawks.com.
Did we ever get down to the bottom of why Woodson shaved the eyebrows?
Am I the last person to find out, by Larry Drew’s implications, that Woodson shaved his eye brows in an effort to motivate players?
Ramon
June 15th, 2010
2:38 pm
Lewis, Ray Allen, and Pierce never did anything in the playoffs before now! They made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs at MOST. Pierce made it to the ECF only once in 2002, and that playoff season he only shot 40% from the field. The next two play off performances, Pierce shot even worse than that from the field. Joe is as good of a player and leader as Pierce or Allen was. It wasn’t until all three of them came together that Pierce and Allen got any kind of credibility for play off basketball. Allen will go down as one of the best shooters in history, but he won’t go down as a great player, only a great shooter.
lewis
June 15th, 2010
2:43 pm
Ramon,
I didn’t look at the numbers, but Allen and Pierce are popular, big name NBA players that sell tickets. Allen is one of the best shooters ever, Pierce is “the truth” when it comes to knocking down those mid range jumpers. Either way, KG isn’t coming in as a borderline superstar / player leader at the closing point of his career to lead JJ to a championship.
You are not worth a max contract if you are not a leader, not a big name NBA player, not exciting, not going to sell tickets, and not show any emotion other than frustration on the court. You are not worth a max contract as a #2.
lewis
June 15th, 2010
2:46 pm
And pierce is infinitely better as a playoff player in that he’s one of the best, if not the best in the league at drawing fouls. How often does JJ get to the line?
Grandad
June 15th, 2010
2:49 pm
Big Ray:
from yesterday, I was thinking J.Randle could be our Nate,
[to Teaguer] as * “Donkey” * is to Rondo.
*(Leaving either Al to be or “Shrek” or drafting Dex.Pitt/’Shrek’)
darrell starks:
My dear friend, Solomon Alabi = great kid.
I fear he is not ready to contribute.
Very weak lower body strength, rail thin legs,
DH will displace [abuse] him in the post simply establishing pos.
* ALSO red flag * [surgical foot/feet ???]
There is always a reason talented 7 ftr’s drop to 24.
Fundamentals / d s / Big Ray [redux]:
Ty Chandler’s best days were when C.Paul was tossin’
him those easy oops for high % shots – aka dunks.
Under the aforementioned circumstances;
Haywood = better fit.
Better defender & he had a re-birth last yr.
*conditioning* He’s playing younger than his age.
Also less $$$.
I started this post an hr. ago./ got distracted.
In & out.
Grandad
June 15th, 2010
2:51 pm
*our* “Shrek”
Ramon
June 15th, 2010
3:01 pm
Lewis, I understand what you’re saying. But I think Joe is underrated more than overrated to be honest. I don’t think Joe is worth the Max no. Only NBA players who are worth the max are Kobe, Dwight Howard, Lebron, Wade, Durant, and Duncan. Those are the only max players in my vocabulary. lol.
richbrave
June 15th, 2010
3:03 pm
Some on the WIZ blogs pounding the table for JJ’s next contract, but I remind them that he ain’t nicknamed “ISO JOE” for nothin’. Besides the new boss said he wanted new blood, and YOUNG new blood at that. He didn’t sound like he wanted to be paying for any more retirement contracts for over-the-hill players.
Ken S.:
Did you steal this from my play-book?
“……..So, whenever he, and others like him, are caught in their lies, and/or challenged by facts and/or UNDESPUTED TRUTHS that exposes their self serving BS, they resort to the old tried and true approach, at least for them, of ATTACKING THE MESSENGER, WHILE DELIBERATELY AND CONVENIENTLY AVOIDING THE MESSAGE………..”
Signed – L.AT.
drMARYb:
Posted you up on RAY’s blog two days ago and recounted by 3,331 mile wandering about the southeast. No love girl? Here you been giving the TRUTH all those embraces I been missing.
O'Brien
June 15th, 2010
3:05 pm
Ramon,
Horford is due a big pay raise next year. If we trade for okafor, then we will have ~$35 mil tied up in Josh, okafor and horford. I think that’s too much.
I like Ronnie Brewer (I like Matt barnes too). And both of those guys are cheaper than childress.
We do need a shooter, which Mike Miller is. But I think jj redick or Anthony morrow (both restricted however ) would be cheaper.
richbrave
June 15th, 2010
3:07 pm
Signed – Lee AT
dub366
June 15th, 2010
3:08 pm
ya’ll talking about 53 games hell he could have won 60 or more if he used his bench and get the ball out of J J hand and run some played instead of that ISO mess.
Atlanta Air Force
June 15th, 2010
3:20 pm
Jackson, Popovich, Rivers, Sloan. Which one of these guys is an encourager? What the hawks are lacking is leadership plain and simple. From the owners all the way down to and most importantly to the players.
Now that ASG has their coach I hope they decide to give Drew a little more to work with than Zsa Zsa and Joe smith down low. They also need an upgrade at the small forward position as the Williams/Evans combo has given us nothing for 2 years now. I would really like to see an effort to sign Childress, although everything I am reading says that it isn’t going to happen. Jeff Teague can play and hopefully without the point guard killer Woodson, he can flourish. The frustrating thing is that the Hawks are only a couple of pieces away from being able to play with the big boys.
Ramon
June 15th, 2010
3:23 pm
O’Brien, last season we had $34 mil tied up in Bibby, Crawford, and Joe. Also when Al is due his raise, Crawford and Bibby are coming off the books.
Ken Strickland
June 15th, 2010
3:32 pm
One of the things that thrills me to no end is the fact that the upcoming season will be the 1st, in at least in last 4 or 5, without a single player having a personal or professional issue with the HC. It will also be the 1st season since Bibby’s arrival in which there will actually be accountability for all, and actual competition for starting positions and bench mins.
We now have a HC that has the ability and/or willingness to utilize and focus on the talents of his bench players, rather than using, or manufacturing alleged short comings as an excuse for ignore them. This will allow us to take advantage of certain players skills in certain situations. Last yr, there was no doubt we should have taken advantage of RMorris’ excellent post OFF.
6′11″ PF/C RMorris and 7′ FA center DJ MBenga would be excellent cost effective additions as OFF/DEF options. We should also make a commitment to either sign or trade JChildress this yr. I have to agree with BIG RAY on us pursuing RBrewer. If Marvin is replaced in the starting lineup, we’d have our shooting big man off the bench.
Even without JJ, with a more versatile starting SF, and Teague @ PG, we could be just as effective offensively with a SG that plays good DEF and averages in the 14-16PPG range. If JJ resigns, I’d like to see him moved to SF and we still sign a DEF minded SG with some OFF skill.
cp
June 15th, 2010
3:34 pm
Exactly Big Ray. Its like what Sekou said in a interview. Most fans were more concerned about a big name hire rather than if the guy can coach or if he is a good fit for the team. lol terrell. I don’t think many players liked Woodson at all. Sekou named about 6 players in that one interview I heard. Pachulia looked as if he had won the lottery when they were asking him about Drew. Im going to look at the free agents list later and throw some names out there of guys who could possibly come cheap and help out.
Rondo
June 15th, 2010
4:01 pm
Grandaddy
Come on g-pops Nate Robinson is Donkey and Big Baby Davis is Shrek get it right Willard Scott.
lewis
June 15th, 2010
4:05 pm
“”"”"”"Even without JJ, with a more versatile starting SF, and Teague @ PG, we could be just as effective offensively with a SG that plays good DEF and averages in the 14-16PPG range. If JJ resigns, I’d like to see him moved to SF and we still sign a DEF minded SG with some OFF skill.”"”"”"
EUREKA.
darrell starks
June 15th, 2010
4:07 pm
Can any one answer this lets say joe comeback for about 6year 90mill thats 15mill a year, and chill don’t comeback is it possible the hawks can still sign john salmons ?
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
lewis
June 15th, 2010
4:07 pm
http://www.nba.com/2010/news/06/15/summer.league/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt2 — 2010 Summer League Schedule Announced
darrell starks
June 15th, 2010
4:09 pm
How much is john salmon worth i say 6mill 2 8mill.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!
Rondo
June 15th, 2010
4:11 pm
Lewis
Fools Gold….JJ ain’t moving to sf he has all the leverage if he resigns and sf ain’t part of the deal.
Grandad
June 15th, 2010
4:13 pm
I’ve been thinking of KS’ analogy of the $100 bill.
What if & or would we rather have:
(KenS…I’m changing one for monetary reasons)
Joe
-OR-
Childress
+
[select from] Haywood / Amir Johnson / *Matt Bonner=(3 pt%)
*(check out 3 pt% before you scoff) [stretch 4 or 5]
+
[select from] Redick / Anthony Morrow / Roger Mason=least exp.
*Salmons would have recieved 5.8 from Mil., + they wish
to re-sign. He will @ least 6+ from someone.
Thus – the above list…^… allows more freedom to spend
on others.
**per KS’ $100 biil anology.
lewis
June 15th, 2010
4:23 pm
Rondo,
I know, believe me, I know.
He left PHX for more touches, he’s not going to stay in ATL to move to SF.
Pierce did it for Allen tho.
Grandad
June 15th, 2010
4:28 pm
Rondo:
please explain where I messed up.
“from yesterday, I was thinking J.Randle could be our Nate,
[to Teaguer] as * “Donkey” * is to Rondo.”
J.Randle = Nate = “Donkey”
Teaguer = [the other] Rondo as opposed to yourself.
*(Leaving either Al to be our “Shrek” or drafting Dex.Pitt/’Shrek’)
Al = BB = “Shrek”
or
Dex.Pitt = ‘Shrek’
Now – where did I mess up the analogy.
lewis
June 15th, 2010
4:41 pm
and by the way, KERR just dipped from the SUNS organization http://www.nba.com/2010/news/06/15/kerr.suns/index.html
Ramon
June 15th, 2010
5:03 pm
Somebody tell me, isn’t Sund’s contract as GM up after this upcoming season? If so I wonder what are the requirements for the ASG to offer him an extension. If they’re not fully behind Sund, it will show this offseason by what moves he’s allow to make happen.
JakeNJ'Boro
June 15th, 2010
5:11 pm
CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP!
CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP!
CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP!
CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP!
Ken Strickland
June 15th, 2010
6:12 pm
How can anyone realistically say what JJ will or won’t do, especially when it involves moving to SF. He played SF whenever Crawford came into the gm and Marvin went out. JJ playing SF so much was the main reason MEvans was complaining about not receiving adequate mins. He would be an excellent point forward, and his skills would serve him better going against SF’s.
terrell
June 15th, 2010
6:17 pm
Cheap, but competitive. The ASG way
1st team: Teague/Crawford/JJ/Josh/Al
2nd team: Earl Watson/Mo Evans/Damien Wilkins/Marvin/Kurt Thomas
End of the bench:Bibby/Zaza/Randolph Morris/
terrell
June 15th, 2010
6:22 pm
Rondo, why wouldn’t JJ move to sf if it was going to help the TEAM? It’s not like when Woody was here and all they were concerned about was making all-star teams. Those days are over. Hopefully.
terrell
June 15th, 2010
6:26 pm
Kerr was more than likely told to leave, or we’ll help you leave. lol! Unless he just thought this team was done, which it probably is if Amare leaves.
MBZ
June 15th, 2010
6:47 pm
O(+>
MBZ
June 15th, 2010
6:48 pm
O ( + >
JSS
June 15th, 2010
7:08 pm
@ Ken Strickland…
I hope you’re doing better, many well wishes…
Where in the world are you going to get any production out of Randolph. Even in a offense/defense scenario, he is going to give 6 points for every 2 he’ll ever score. Morris is a zero sum game. It is time to cut him loose or get him at league minimum for one year and demand A WHOLE LOT MORE! He has shown absolutely no propensity to get better, N-O-N-E!!! We kick Marvin here for the same thing…
Midtown Mike
June 16th, 2010
5:20 pm
Larry Drew gets me tingling, no homo.
Bones
June 16th, 2010
9:47 pm
@Ken Strickland
You mention that ” his [Joe's] skills would serve him better going against SF’s”. Can you elaborate on this a bit? I’d like to get some insight into your perspective on this.