Atlanta Hawks: Players say Drew isn’t Woody 2
LD, second from right, moves over to Woody's spot (Curtis Compton/ccompton@ajc.com)
It wouldn’t be a bad thing in the larger sense if LD is another Woody. In the aftermath of the recent postseason disappointment, it’s easy to forget Woody led the Hawks to one of their better seasons after helping them rise up from their status as laughingstocks. But Rick Sund said the Hawks needed “another voice,” after all, so there’s some understandable skepticism when they hired Woody’s right-hand man to be the “new” voice.
Clearly Atlanta believes LD offers something distinct from Woody. The Hawks hired him after rejecting not just Woody but his entire program. Promoting his lead assistant means they don’t think LD got much of a chance to put his stamp on that program. And the Hawks are telling you that not only do they expect LD’s way to be better than Woody’s way, but that he’s the guy to guide them to the next level even though he’s never been in the head coach’s seat before.
Anybody making snap judgments about the legitimacy of those views is just guessing. Sund and ASG made their choice. LD gets his shot to win over skeptics. At some point it will become clear if he’s the right choice.
I talked to some players this weekend, and all of them said they expect LD’s approach to be different than Woody’s. Drew often ran the second-team offense in practice and was said to deploy creative sets, with one player describing them as a “fun” departures from the isolations. Another player said when things went badly for the Hawks, LD tended to be more of an “encourager” than a “screamer” and focused his energy on laying out a detailed plan for how the Hawks can get better.
The players have better insight into LD than the rest of us, and so it’s significant that he enjoys wide support among them. But they can’t be sure how Drew the assistant will work out as Drew the head coach. His relationships with players will be tested. Now LD has the final say on how the run the team, including playing time and touches, and players inevitably aren’t going to like some of his decisions.
It’s probably not much different than most real-life workplaces when your direct boss becomes the “big boss.” It happened to me at a previous job. I knew that when my supervisor became the department’s boss our relationship would necessarily change. Where once he would go into his boss’s office as my advocate, and sometimes privately agree with my gripes, suddenly I was griping to someone else about his decisions. We talked every day when he was my direct supervisor; when he became the department head and had wider responsibilities, sometimes the explanations came down through the chain of command, and sometimes not at all.
I knew that when he was promoted my boss had to put some of that “command distance” between us. I’m not saying I always liked it but I accepted the circumstances and did my job. It’s not an exact analogy, I know, but Hawks players now have to do much the same with Drew. It’s part of being a professional.
That raises another important point. It’s not just ASG, Sund and LD who are under pressure. The players have a lot to prove, too. It’s fair to critique Woody’s strategies, his management of the team, and his failure to bring along Rook’. But, in what’s probably a common NBA tale, the players whom Woody treated like pros and gave some degree of say in their working conditions eventually let him down (and that’s before you even get into the issues with his roster, which is another blog altogether).
The players credited Woody with creating a loose atmosphere that made it enjoyable for them to come to work but then they didn’t get serious when it was time to do so. Woody backed off from the long, hard and frequent practices players didn’t like and in the end they didn’t work as hard as they should. Woody gave them on-court freedom (especially J.J.) and instead of taking that trust and becoming a free-flowing offensive team, they became a selfish “get mine” kind of team–and resisted Woody’s efforts to get them to share the ball.
Now Hawks players get a replacement for Woody whom they know and like. The new voice in charge is a familiar one and the internal hire causes fewer disruptions and less uncertainty. As one player said, now it’s up to him and his teammates to support Drew by getting on board with his program, respecting his decisions even if they don’t like them and sacrificing for the team.
Otherwise, no matter if LD draws up better plays, holds all guys accountable and develops the next Rook’, he might end up just like Woody did in the end.
MC
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399 comments Add your comment
Melvin
June 14th, 2010
4:54 pm
Ok, not too sure about that. All those guys except for Manny Harris are suppose to be serious players. I like the clips I seen of Elliot. If he could play the 2 then he could be a good player in this league for years to come.
JoJo the Godfather
June 14th, 2010
4:56 pm
OK…watch out for Dominique Jones. That kid can play. I think he was top 5 in getting to the line and top 10 in scoring. Ready to play D in the NBA right now. Same reach as John Wall and a little taller. Get Mark Price to help that man with his 3-pt shot and you’ve got something.
JSS
June 14th, 2010
5:20 pm
@DrMaryB…
I was sitting 4 seats from the bench; and it was not a “competitive or spirited exchange!” Bibby told Hill “to go and F*** himself and if you don’t know the play to shut the F*** up!” It took Woody and Drew pushing Bibby back out on to the floor at the end of the time out to keep Bibby from charging Hill. Out that time out, the Hawks ran the play which resulted in Bibby hitting a 3 off a double high pick. On the way back up the court, Bibby glares at Hill and mouths “F*** you!” And that is the rest of the story…
OK
June 14th, 2010
5:20 pm
Melvin & Jo Jo,
I’ll look into these guys, haven’t heard much about them before.
OK
June 14th, 2010
5:22 pm
Bibby Sucks, he has no right to talk trash like that. What was that like his 20th three of the season? HAHAHA.
Trade No D Bibby and draft someone like collins to back up Teague!
Atlanta Spirit Group
June 14th, 2010
5:22 pm
What this really tells you is that we are cheap!
JSS
June 14th, 2010
5:30 pm
@ Ted M…
Just before the half, it was quick and it was HEATED!!!
JSS
June 14th, 2010
5:36 pm
@ OK…
You can say a lot of things about Bibby and his lack of D and penetration skills; but he kept us in the game during the first half of Game 7 of the Miami series. Then Joe Johnson finally showed in the late 3rd quarter of the same game.
O'Brien
June 14th, 2010
5:49 pm
Northcyde,
If you were a Memphis fan, how would you feel about your team trading Pau Gasol (2 time all NBA third team, their best player at the time, who went on to help the Lakers win a championship) for the pieces they did?
Pau Gasol for Kwame Brown (not with Memphis anymore), Javaris Creittenton (not with Memphis anymore), Aaron McKie (not with Memphis anymore, Marc Gasol, and a first round pick in 2008 (#28, Donte Green, not with Memphis anymore), and a first round pick in 2010 (#28).
Wouldn’t that be similar to the Hawks trading JJ, also a third team all NBA player, for those pieces?
If you were a Memphis fan, you would probably have to get on them too, because I doubt if they are a championship fan base.
flygirl
June 14th, 2010
5:51 pm
it’s sad that coaches get fired because the players don’t do their jobs. jj is like a baby if he don’t win he wants to pout boo hoo. i hope he hawks fall flat on their face next season. i always thought ld wanted woody’s job anyway. lot of backstabbers. can’t wait to see them crash. woody keep your head up.
OK
June 14th, 2010
5:54 pm
Lang Whitaker Interviews Larry Drew
http://www.slamonline.com/online/blogs/the-links/2010/06/links-qa-with-hawks-coach-larry-drew/
JSS,
I agree, Bibby was amazing in the 2009 playoffs, but he’s been just as horrible through the 09-10 season and the 2010 playoffs. I think his skills just fell of the cliff and his play is about to take a significant nosedive. He’s still a good player, my thing is, Can anyone honestly say that Mike Bibby could possiblly lead us to a title at this point? I like the guy, but we should cut our losses and trade him before no one wants him and we are stuck paying him $6milll in the 3rd year of his $18mill deal and he can’t live up to it.
JSS
June 14th, 2010
6:10 pm
@ OK…
You and others are acting like someone is asking for Bibby to be the starter. No, I’m making a retrospective point. I’ve said that from this point forward it is either going to be Jeff Teague’s or another point guard team to run as the lead 1 guard. Bibby is now a guard that should come in to shot 3’s and give relief minutes like Craig Hodges did towards the end of his career.
jroc
June 14th, 2010
6:19 pm
Obrien
If i’m not mistaken Gasol was handed to LA by the logo himself Jerry West. Laker favor i bet.Same as Mchale handing Garnett to Boston.
TruthSerum
June 14th, 2010
6:22 pm
Grandad, you are write. I did card you and find you are a card carrying member of the infamous Bubba Crew. I must add, however that you have earned my respect. Yes, no doubt.
Now to the other end of the Bubba Crew spectrum, to the legendary brown ooze of undershorts, Sautee,
When every you twist and distort my comments as you slither along I will not respond. I was injecting sarcasm at the lone vote that horford receive for his defensive critique. I heard that woodson told the coach of the 19# shot blocking center if you will cast your vote for my boy the #18 shot blocking center then will have at the least have the ability to say our center received recognition for his defense.
Actually Horford does get recognition for his defense. Most opposing coaches try to isolate him under the basket to go 1 on 1 with the likes of nate robinson or tony parker. There are many film clips With Al standing under the basket admiring their dunks.
Mike the con n ham planted this story about woodson and his players. I dont give it much credence like I dont give the con ham credence.
I have to agree with the consensus that Perkins is a much better defensive center than Al. I acknowledge that Al’s has a career average of 12 pts, his senior year in college he averaged 13 and last year he averaged 14 and this after Woodson responded to Al’s lack of offense by tweaking it running plays that work with Al’s limited offensive tools. Im not excited about Als offense either. 12-14 point is not exactly going to take the other team out of their game plan or break any one down. Perkins average 6 points last year.
Perkins Defense has more of an impact on the game than Als 12 or 13 points. Id rather have defense strength than an offensive mediocrity.
DEFENSE WIN GAMES.!
TruthSerum
June 14th, 2010
6:23 pm
*grandad you are right (correct)
jroc
June 14th, 2010
6:27 pm
JSS
The miami series was in 09.Can you name a big game or shot Bibby had this year.Hopefully Drew shows lazy bad attitude Bibby out the door asap.
OK
June 14th, 2010
6:34 pm
JSS,
I agree with jroc on this one. While I understand what you are saying about Bibby and his future role on the team. With me, it’s more about asset management, and right now Bibby would be more of an asset to us in a trade than playing for the Hawks on the court (where he is increasingly becoming a huge liability). Hopefully sund can pull off some more magic like he did aruond this time a year ago by trading the useless and dissapointing Speedy claxton with Acie Law for Jamal.
kirkinga
June 14th, 2010
6:43 pm
@doc,
I am disappointed in ASG. I haven’t been as critical of them as others have been largely because I agreed with almost every move except the hiring of Sund. My greatest fear is that we will now see the W-L trend line go in the opposite direction and then the organization goes back into a funk, perhaps even lose Horford next offseason. We, ok I, have just now have gotten use to offseasons where the main focus wasn’t on clearing cap space and stocking drafty picks. I don’t want to go back to start over again.
@Texas Pete,
I can see the argument that the current roster has structural issues. Others have had that discussion as well and it seems that not everyone agrees that there are such issues. I think now that there has been a coaching/philosophical change, I do not see there being much patience for further arguments that the issues are with the guys in the suits (unless they are injured players).
As for whether or not Coach Woodson had to go, I think it there was enough evidence on paper to support his retention. I also think there was enough evidence on the court to warrant his dismissal. This change should/could have been made last offseason as we all knew that the lack of extension likely meant Coach Woodson was a lame duck all along.
What the East will look like next season is a big mystery at this point so it’s hard to predict potential playoff matchups. I will say that given the coaching change and if JJ returns, I don’t buy any arguments as to why this isn’t a 50-win team next season.
Go Hawks!
JSS
June 14th, 2010
6:50 pm
Once again, I talk in the “here and now!” Until the Hawks find someone to take on Bibby (@ $ 6 million dollars), that is a moot desire to trade him. He is not a expiring rookie or UFA contract. Moreover, unless you know of another Crawford deal in reverse (you are going to have take on somebodies dead weight in return for Bibby). Saving at the most 2 million dollars (not $6 million), you are actually better off eating Bibby salary the next 2 years like we did Speedy and at least he sees the floor (unlike “Mr. Injured”). It is the reason I never talk about Joe Johnson, either you sign him and get the benefit of his cap value, or you cut him loose and take the cap hit and play this season hamstrung by his value sitting against our cap with a lesser piece on the roster.
O'Brien
June 14th, 2010
6:58 pm
Looking at the ajc picture, a lot of players were there. Even Jason Collins (who is not under contract for next year, and who received very litte, if any PT) showed up at Larry Drew’s press conference.
Thats interesting, because only one or two guys (including Randolph Morris) showed up for Crawford’s sixth man of the year presentation.
It’s interesting to hear Drew say “as the assistant, we give information and suggestions to the HC, but it is up to him to use it how he sees fit”.
leedsatlanta
June 14th, 2010
6:59 pm
SLAM: And where does Jeff Teague fit into all of this?
LD: Jeff is a kid that first of all, I really love his talent and his skill level. I think he really has the ability to make our team better, and it’s going to be my job to put him in that position. I’ve seen a lot of point guards, and I’ve played against a lot of them, and this kid, he has the ability. It’s just a matter of him going in, being confident and playing at a high level.
Shame Woodson could not see this!
jroc
June 14th, 2010
7:03 pm
JSS
Bibby was the hawks dead weight this year.Bibby at this point in his carreer has regressed significantly.If you watched Bibby this year the guy couldn’t get a shot off when someone played a little defense on him and hurried to get the ball out of his hand when someone played tight d on him.The only time Bibby scores is when he is open and he miss half of his open looks.Bibby had a good run with the Hawks in 08 and 09 but 2010 was a disapointment.
Rick Sund
June 14th, 2010
7:03 pm
Hawks Fans:
The rumors are true. I did in fact want Casey as coach, but the ASG wanted Larry Drew.
However, let’s talk about something more important:
We SWEPT the Celtics in the REGULAR SEASON series. Why are you all not HAPPY? A team’s success is based on regular season record. Boston is on the verge of WINNING a CHAMPIONSHIP, meaning we are technically the best team in the league since we swept them.
Also, given this fact, we are maintaining our belief that the REFS were a primary factor in our losses to Orlando in the 2nd round. They were very biased and unfair — our playing and effort were definitely where they needed to be in order for us to win the series.
Best,
Rick
bigdave
June 14th, 2010
7:04 pm
head coach Larry Drew on Hawk pg Jeff Teague:
“im going to get started on him right away.. i see things in him that this club needs. he has the ability to make other players better.”
“i want to get his confidence level at an all- time high.. b/c as i stated earlier, when a guy has that type of ability you gotta utilize it.”
says alot right there… its a shame that so many promising college talents were mismanaged and ruined under the coaching of Mike Woodson.
by the way… the kid didnt go home to Indy, he’s been here putting in work.
bigdave
June 14th, 2010
7:04 pm
* ” a lot”
jay dubu
June 14th, 2010
7:05 pm
Remember JJ asked out of Phoenix because he wasn’t getting his touches. Why would he come to a team that is supposed to built around him, and share the ball?
JSS
June 14th, 2010
7:08 pm
@ JRoc…
Chris Wallace made the Gasol trade. Jerry West retired at the end of the 06-07 season. Wallace took over on 06-18-2007. The Gasol took place on 02-01-2008.
O'Brien
June 14th, 2010
7:08 pm
From the SLAM interview.
Not all five guys necessarily being scorers, but all five guys being a threat. We have the capability of obviously Joe having a big night, or Josh Smith or Al having a big night, even the capability of Marvin having a big night. And Jamal coming off the bench is obviously a guy who can score in bunches. We just want to add a few things, subtract a few things just to make us a better ballclub.
Marvin having a big night? I hope so, because that would definitely help the Hawks out a lot, in more ways than one.
cp
June 14th, 2010
7:17 pm
bigdave that’s good to hear about Teague. I know on the video that was up on Hawks.com he said he was going home for a week I guess he changed his mind and decided to stay here the whole time and work. Its nice to see that the kid has a nice work ethic. Now if we can convince Duck that working out with Sean May does nothing for him we might be on to something.
Sautee
June 14th, 2010
7:18 pm
Truth-serum,
So you are going to run away and hide like a little girl? No offense ladies as most of you have more courage than he does..
You claimed that the only reason Horford made the All-Star game is because of Shaq announcing that he had a thumb injury and that he would not play.
I say that’s BS. Shaq DID have a thumb injury but it was TWO WEEKS AFTER the All-Star Game!
Care to give us that link that shows your “story” to be true? Even dr.maryb, who has praised your posts on occasion thinks that no such link exists.
C’mon T-s, prove me wrong. Make me apologize in front of the blog. You can do it.
Not.
JSS
June 14th, 2010
7:19 pm
You keep beating a dead horse on my desires for Bibby.
You folks have screamed for flow in the offense. I will not know until I see what Drew has in mind. I saw all but 5 of the Hawks games last year. So I know his shortcomings are at making his own shot. I also know what he can accomplish when he placed in better positions on the floor. When a 2nd unit with Jamal as the primary option and ball handler is on the floor, Bibby becomes a asset when placed properly on the offensive end. That is why you set picks for the man, he is a option, not your 1st option… If the liability that Steve Kerr can play in this league, Bibby can… Find a trade that works, I won’t lose any sleep.
Rick Sund
June 14th, 2010
7:20 pm
WE WILL NOT OFFER HORFORD AN EXTENSION. ANY CONTRACT OVER 5M A YEAR IS A RIPOFF IN OUR MINDS
Dukester9
June 14th, 2010
7:26 pm
Trade Joe Johnson and Marvin Williams for Andre Iguodala and Sam Dalembert.
jroc
June 14th, 2010
7:31 pm
No we gonna keep joe but we wouldnt mind trading Marvin for Dalembert
jroc
June 14th, 2010
7:31 pm
‘Marvin and Bibby for Dalembert
JSS
June 14th, 2010
7:33 pm
@ Big Dave…
Teague has done 110% more in staying here this off season and getting at it than Acie did in two full seasons in the organization… Good for him…
Rondo
June 14th, 2010
7:42 pm
From what I hear Teague ain’t nothing but Drew’s ole Do Boy.If that what it takes for him to b the starting pg next year Mo Power 2 ya Bro.
bigdave
June 14th, 2010
7:45 pm
JSS..
i dont think it would’ve mattered if Woodson was his (Acie’s) head coach.. i dont think Chris Paul gets off Woodson’s bench.
Sautee
June 14th, 2010
7:48 pm
Now he’s hiding behind Rick Sund. LOL.
bigdave
June 14th, 2010
7:51 pm
JSS..
in fact, i happen to believe that Acie was the better college player. however, i am pleased to know that he is here working. i always felt that leadership comes from the PG position. i am eager to see the Jeff Teague that was raved about during last year summer league and camp.. in watching Jeff in limited action this year he appears to have the ability to set up his teammates at will, thats if he isnt just passing it to Joe or Jamal on the wing. now our bigs etc finishing is another story.
Melvin
June 14th, 2010
7:53 pm
Oh my, Dennis Scott just said on NBATV that economics had a lot to do with the Hawks hiring Drew b/c they didn’t want to pay alot for a coach. SMH… I’m sure the ASG is not cheap, they prefer to spend the money on the players…;-)
Melvin
June 14th, 2010
7:53 pm
They are interviewing Sekou Smith on TV. Not only he said Woody had problems with Josh Smith but Anthony Johnson, Josh Childress, ZaZa and Mo Evans.. Also he said that many times it was Drew who came between Josh and Woody. And Drew and Josh has a great relationship….
JSS
June 14th, 2010
7:55 pm
Not a matter of getting off the bench, Chancey Billups almost played himself out the league because he was lost. He finally admit his shortcomings and worked on it relentlessly. Acie went all Smush Parker, “I’m in the dog house, no need to work on getting better!” I do hope that Acie finally gets after it, realizes that his is not going to carry a team, but with hard work, he can help someone’s team… Hey, Boris Diaw pulled himself up…
Greg
June 14th, 2010
7:55 pm
Looks like this is how it came down: he was the cheapest, so we hired him.
Rick Sund
June 14th, 2010
8:10 pm
THATS SO SOPHMORIC OF YOU SAUTEE AND VERY IMPISH I MIGHT ADD
bigdave
June 14th, 2010
8:11 pm
JSS.. true.
Melvin..
remember when Childress had to separate ZaZa and Woody after center court during the Bos. series. after Woodson tried to get Za Za off the floor and Za Za wanted to pump up the crowd after the KG fiasco..
bigdave
June 14th, 2010
8:13 pm
look at the bottom of the shot.. in the corner. Woodson is his tan suit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi4Hx52KrJs
bigdave
June 14th, 2010
8:13 pm
no respect.
bigdave
June 14th, 2010
8:17 pm
and look @ Woodson duck under Childress attempt to wrap his arms around Woodson like, “wait a min. i dont like you”
my goodness it was raucous that night..
jroc
June 14th, 2010
8:17 pm
bigdave
aaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh Man those was the days you brought back some good memories with that one!