Atlanta Hawks: Players say Drew isn’t Woody 2
LD, second from right, moves over to Woody's spot (Curtis Compton/ccompton@ajc.com)
It wouldn’t be a bad thing in the larger sense if LD is another Woody. In the aftermath of the recent postseason disappointment, it’s easy to forget Woody led the Hawks to one of their better seasons after helping them rise up from their status as laughingstocks. But Rick Sund said the Hawks needed “another voice,” after all, so there’s some understandable skepticism when they hired Woody’s right-hand man to be the “new” voice.
Clearly Atlanta believes LD offers something distinct from Woody. The Hawks hired him after rejecting not just Woody but his entire program. Promoting his lead assistant means they don’t think LD got much of a chance to put his stamp on that program. And the Hawks are telling you that not only do they expect LD’s way to be better than Woody’s way, but that he’s the guy to guide them to the next level even though he’s never been in the head coach’s seat before.
Anybody making snap judgments about the legitimacy of those views is just guessing. Sund and ASG made their choice. LD gets his shot to win over skeptics. At some point it will become clear if he’s the right choice.
I talked to some players this weekend, and all of them said they expect LD’s approach to be different than Woody’s. Drew often ran the second-team offense in practice and was said to deploy creative sets, with one player describing them as a “fun” departures from the isolations. Another player said when things went badly for the Hawks, LD tended to be more of an “encourager” than a “screamer” and focused his energy on laying out a detailed plan for how the Hawks can get better.
The players have better insight into LD than the rest of us, and so it’s significant that he enjoys wide support among them. But they can’t be sure how Drew the assistant will work out as Drew the head coach. His relationships with players will be tested. Now LD has the final say on how the run the team, including playing time and touches, and players inevitably aren’t going to like some of his decisions.
It’s probably not much different than most real-life workplaces when your direct boss becomes the “big boss.” It happened to me at a previous job. I knew that when my supervisor became the department’s boss our relationship would necessarily change. Where once he would go into his boss’s office as my advocate, and sometimes privately agree with my gripes, suddenly I was griping to someone else about his decisions. We talked every day when he was my direct supervisor; when he became the department head and had wider responsibilities, sometimes the explanations came down through the chain of command, and sometimes not at all.
I knew that when he was promoted my boss had to put some of that “command distance” between us. I’m not saying I always liked it but I accepted the circumstances and did my job. It’s not an exact analogy, I know, but Hawks players now have to do much the same with Drew. It’s part of being a professional.
That raises another important point. It’s not just ASG, Sund and LD who are under pressure. The players have a lot to prove, too. It’s fair to critique Woody’s strategies, his management of the team, and his failure to bring along Rook’. But, in what’s probably a common NBA tale, the players whom Woody treated like pros and gave some degree of say in their working conditions eventually let him down (and that’s before you even get into the issues with his roster, which is another blog altogether).
The players credited Woody with creating a loose atmosphere that made it enjoyable for them to come to work but then they didn’t get serious when it was time to do so. Woody backed off from the long, hard and frequent practices players didn’t like and in the end they didn’t work as hard as they should. Woody gave them on-court freedom (especially J.J.) and instead of taking that trust and becoming a free-flowing offensive team, they became a selfish “get mine” kind of team–and resisted Woody’s efforts to get them to share the ball.
Now Hawks players get a replacement for Woody whom they know and like. The new voice in charge is a familiar one and the internal hire causes fewer disruptions and less uncertainty. As one player said, now it’s up to him and his teammates to support Drew by getting on board with his program, respecting his decisions even if they don’t like them and sacrificing for the team.
Otherwise, no matter if LD draws up better plays, holds all guys accountable and develops the next Rook’, he might end up just like Woody did in the end.
MC
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399 comments Add your comment
ignition
June 13th, 2010
10:14 pm
I’am wishing the best for my team and Larry Drew. I truly hope it works out and we can get to the championship level that we should be .. A -Town lets Get It..
Mac-Town.. I’m from the Mac myself good to see us reppin the way we always do..
gcs
June 13th, 2010
10:31 pm
LAKERS, CELTICS, MAGIC, CAVS LOOK OUT! WE GOT LARRY DREW!
(psst, do they look scared?)
.
Ben Hill; Been Real
June 13th, 2010
10:50 pm
Well if J.J doesnt come back im not sweating it..Crawford proved to be more consistent OFFENSIVELY then him anyway
Delbert D.
June 13th, 2010
10:52 pm
I’d like to see more editorials like this. It made me think.
Rick Sund
June 13th, 2010
10:54 pm
Hawks Fans:
The rumors are true. I did in fact want Casey as coach, but the ASG wanted Larry Drew.
However, let’s talk about something more important:
We SWEPT the Celtics in the REGULAR SEASON series. Why are you all not HAPPY? A team’s success is based on regular season record. Boston is on the verge of WINNING a CHAMPIONSHIP, meaning we are technically the best team in the league since we swept them.
Also, given this fact, we are maintaining our belief that the REFS were a primary factor in our losses to Orlando in the 2nd round. They were very biased and unfair — our playing and effort were definitely where they needed to be in order for us to win the series.
Best,
Rick
Mystikal
June 13th, 2010
11:11 pm
If Drew cuts ties with Tyrone Hill and gives Horford more of a leadership role I will take that as positive signs we are going to be okay!
Hawk fan
June 13th, 2010
11:13 pm
Everyone loves a winner, If LD wins he will be loved. Let him lose and everyone will be on his butt.
Good Luck Coach Drew. I’m pulling for you to get’er done.
David Smith
June 13th, 2010
11:28 pm
This is encouraging to read but, we won’t really know what we have until October.
Hawks Fans In New Orleans
June 13th, 2010
11:43 pm
Its great to know that the players buy in to Drew’s leadership. Nothing wrong with a vote of confidence from the core. Hopefully Drew’s hiring was the death nail to the iso-heavy offense and weak perimeter defense.
mykhalc
I totally agree about bringing Chillz back on board and benching Marvin – he was horrendous last year and we all know Chillz plays better off the ball.
Section 303
June 13th, 2010
11:48 pm
I like the hire. Willing to give Coach Drew a chance.
But, can’t stand reading people trying to come up with excuses why it was Woodson’s fault the playoffs went bad. It wasn’t. That performance (especially the Orlando series) is all on the players. Total lack of effort. They quit. They should be the ones taking sh#t for that. Don’t try and pan that off on Woodson.
Mystikal
June 13th, 2010
11:55 pm
If Joe bounces, possible compensation via sign and trade:
Miami – Michael Beasley, cash and draft pick
Chicago – Kirk Hinrich and draft picks; stay away from Deng’s contract
New Jersey – Draft picks, Courtney lee, Terrance Williams, Devin Harris if they are slippin’
New York – ?????????????????
Clippers – Chris Kaman or Deandre Jordan, draft picks, cash
Section 303
June 13th, 2010
11:57 pm
Mystikal, I would dance in the streets if the Hawks could get Deandre Jordan. I love that guy’s game. Big guy who attacks the rim and plays hard all the time. Would be a great sign-and-trade.
Grandad
June 14th, 2010
12:00 am
Ty Hill helped him get the job during the interview.
Most likely he stays. [check out the vid. over @ Sekou's]
Kevin McHale still wants to coach – worth a call.
Larry Drew was not -MY- 1st choice
-BUT-
I think he is going to be just fine.
I pledge my full support.
chem
June 14th, 2010
12:01 am
Drew was picked because the alternatives sucked, and it’ll be easy to justify firing him after 1 or 2 seasons when a better coach will be available. In other words, don’t count on the Hawks escaping the early rounds of the playoffs anytime soon.
Grandad
June 14th, 2010
12:01 am
McHale = asst. *obviously*
Joe Mama
June 14th, 2010
12:12 am
Mike, you conning ham. Its nice to know you read me regardless of what moniker I choose to use. I read you to…So there… thanks for the shout out?
Ray… I mean “Rick Sund” arent you afraid that the owner will read your denouncement? If youve got the courage to make the proclamation here couldnt you as well have been man enough to say…Im not going to hire Woodson’s step child?
gcs
June 13th, 2010
10:31 pm
LAKERS, CELTICS, MAGIC, CAVS LOOK OUT! WE GOT LARRY DREW!
(psst, do they look scared?)
LMAO STILL, looks like im not the only one! Funny post.
NOW HOW ABOUT A FREAKING CENTER?!
Joe Mama
June 14th, 2010
12:15 am
Whopper Dawg
June 13th, 2010
7:52 pm
ID HAVE TO AGREE WITH YOU. HISTORY VALIDATES YOUR SUPPOSITION.
The Truth
June 14th, 2010
12:22 am
Not that I am representing these few disgruntled fans about our new coach hiring, but perhaps a reason why the “knee-jerk” reaction still lingers points to Sund characterization of why the coach change was necessary. He said the Hawks needed a “new voice”. To some fans that statement translated into something new, something bold, and something completely different; a well-respected coach (around the league) capable of taking us to that next and final championship level. Maybe these disgruntled fans feel that our recent hired coach does not fit this bill. But from a qualification stand point we all know this was a good match. The reaction from the media and around the league is that Coach Drew has paid his dues and is more then qualified for the job. So really this lingering argument is not about Drew qualifications because he certainly has that; then perhaps this is about Sund misleading statement of a “new voice” for a coaching change. I will admit he gave us all a “hard-on” for a “big-splash” coach selection that didn’t apparently happen. Maybe again this exposes discord between Sund understanding of change and the ASG understanding of change as Sund apparently got overruled.
cp
June 14th, 2010
12:46 am
lol mykhalc . Yea I have pretty much given up on Duck… Hawks.com has some videos up . One of the videos is a Teague interview and the other is a Marvin one.. Teague said he was going home for a week then coming back and putting in some work to get better. Marvin on the other hand mentioned nothing about what he was going to do this summer to become a better player. I know just because he didn’t say it on the video it doesnt mean he wont be working on his game but it sure would have been nice to hear him say something basketball related. Working out with Sean May every summer is clearly not working. This dude just doesnt have the drive to be the player he could be.
northcyde
June 14th, 2010
1:30 am
Nah Truth. The fans/we actually did that to ourselves. Sund didn’t lead people on. The fans overhyped the situation because most wanted Woody out of here so bad. When you look at the decision that they eventually made, I think Avery was brought in to simply satisfy the fans.
Dr. Warren
June 14th, 2010
4:59 am
Damn good article, MC. And the not-so-subtle subtext tells it all: the character of the individual players–more than the coach–will determine the Hawks’ success.
Pace Mannion
June 14th, 2010
6:54 am
section 303, Woodson has lost like 13 of 14 to Orlando, how can u not blame that on coach Woody?
Other than the miracle last second dunk-in by Josh Smith in the regular season everybody knew this was going to be a sweep. His strategy trying to defend them obviously hasn’t been working, especially Dwight Howard.
O'Brien
June 14th, 2010
6:57 am
And for those claiming 53 wins or else…Cleveland had 66 wins last year, 61 wins this year. How did that work out for them? Boston only had 50 wins this season, but look where they are now. It’s not just about regular season wins. It’s also about playoff performance.
What if the Hawks only win 46 games, and then they make it to the second round where they lose 4-1, with the 4 losses being close? Is that an improvement?
The playoff collapse was not all Woody’s fault. But that’s why the shelf-life of a coach in the NBA is so short (unless you’re HOF quality). Because the same things that a player likes about you, will be the same thing that gets you fired eventually, once the players tune you out.
nes
June 14th, 2010
7:22 am
Here is my take on the hiring of Drew. First off, since LD has 6 years with the Hawks and the players like him, it won’t work out unless on the first day of practice he sets the tone of how it is going to be, my way or don’t play! Somehow i don’t think he will set the rules down hard with current roster as he doesn’t want to rub players feelings and since he is a rookie head coach there will be mistakes made dealing with the players attitudes and work ethic. D. Casey would have been a better head coach as would bring in a breath of fresh air and new attitude different from the current situation. plus he had head coach experience so not a rookie head coach. good luck to LD, would have been better if he had only been with the Hawks for a year or two, not six years.
robdawg08
June 14th, 2010
8:18 am
Mike Cunningham, you hit the nail on the head about ‘Touche also being Knowledge Quest. One guy here goes to all the sports blogs and posts under about 20 to 30 different names but you can easily tell its the same person. Why does AJC allow people to do this ? It seems like one id per ISP could be enforced. Lame indeed.
robdawg08
June 14th, 2010
8:23 am
So Joe Mama,aka ‘Touche,aka Knowledge Quest,aka about 20 other monikers, why do you use so many different names ? You might as well use the same one since everybody knows its you anyway. Only person you are fooling is yourself. And based on reading all the blogs you are unemployed and sit here all day blogging. Nice career choice …
ILL-logical
June 14th, 2010
9:01 am
MC,
Great follow up piece on the hiring of Larry Dreww. Based on the variuos media reports it appears that the three primary challenges that the new incumbant head coach will face:
1. Team chemistry. The often used but little understood term covers a multitude of sins but Charles Barkley expressed it best in the context of the Hawks two years ago when he said that the (Hawks) are going to have to make up their mind as to wwther or not (it) was Joe’s team or Josh’s team.
2.Joe’s return and or his “new”role. I am agnostic regarding Joe’s return to the team. If there is a new sheriff intown, the question becomes can Joe adjust to not being the sole/major focus of the offense? My belief is that had he not gotten all of the touches over the last few years ,he might not have acheived All-Star status.
3. The roster. There is talent but has it been utilized effectively/ And is there enough to compete in the NBA of 2011 where there is a tremendous opportunity to advance because of the proable decline/weakening of several of the contendors,ie Boston.
Again, I wish Coach Drew a long and successful tenure and am looking forward to an exciting season next year.
Hamp
June 14th, 2010
9:07 am
We needed change I’m not sure how much change we’ll get. This team clearly quit in the orlando series. I don’t see much changing if you don’t shake up the roster. I would not blow it up but I would make changes. I would trade smooth and let JJ go by sign and trade. This team needs a new look.
SlimG
June 14th, 2010
9:31 am
Will not matter who the coach is if Sund can’t bring in a center and point. Why is it the coaches fault when managment wan’t spend the cash to bring in a center. Heck the lakers and celtics have two.
Melvin
June 14th, 2010
9:48 am
Joe Mama
June 14th, 2010
12:12 am
Mike, you conning ham. Its nice to know you read me regardless of what moniker I choose to use. I read you to…So there… thanks for the shout out?
Does this means that Joe Mama = Truth Serum/and many others aka’s??? LMAO..
Ramon
June 14th, 2010
10:11 am
Hamp, Orlando gave up against Boston, as did Cleveland. So should Orlando go trade their two best players? Josh was clearly the MVP of this past season. And its funny that this season just happened to be one of the best seasons in franchise HISTORY. So you’re suggesting trading one of the most influential players in the Hawks last 15 season, because of one play off series, where he still managed to have the best numbers on the team? Good luck with that idea.
Ted M
June 14th, 2010
10:21 am
MC – Do expect any revelations is today press conference?
JSS
June 14th, 2010
10:36 am
If Hill stays we’re screwed, sad to say it but it is true… McHale was a great player but his coaching credentials are a “big zero.” I’d trust crazy Bill Walton over McHale at this point.
Ted M
June 14th, 2010
10:39 am
oops – Do you expect any revelations in today press conference?
JSS
June 14th, 2010
10:41 am
I still can’t over that shouting match that Bibby and Hill got into during Game 7 of the 2009 Miami series. That was as ugly of a display I had ever seen… I saw Doug Moe coach in Denver and Kevin Loughery coach here, so that is saying a lot.
KB
June 14th, 2010
10:48 am
This is why the Hawks won’t make it to the Finals no time soon. Larry Drew maybe a good coach eventually, but this team needs a seasoned hand to get to the next level. As the assistant, he could focus on being the rah rah guy, not the guy who is front of the camera now. He is now got to make the calls. He gets to have the final say. When you are in charge, sometimes you have to be the bad guy. Players love to vent their frustrations to the assistant. The assistant isn’t viewed as the bad guy. Drew has never being the guy. If this team was 19 – 63, sure give him a try. But this team needs a coach who has the experience, a.k.a Avery Johnson, Jeff Van Gundy, Rudy T., Byron Scott, or Lawrence Frank.
That being said, the Hawks mgt just showed us by hiring Larry Drew that they are not interested in winning.
Ken Strickland
June 14th, 2010
10:52 am
ILL-LOGICAL-your comments were very LOGICAL. With absolutely no effort whatsoever to deal with the regression of MWilliams and MBibby, and the refusal to even try and develop and/or take advantage of PG JTeague’s talents, especially his DEF talents, means a lot of our talent was not utilized effectively. Also, relying on a 6-7 man rotation is another indication that our talent and depth weren’t utilized effectively.
I’m a firm believer that losing JJ won’t be as devastating as some seem focused on believing. His DEF and versatility will be missed far more than his OFF, especially if we are able to sign a reliable FA replacement. Getting more OFF and DEF from the PG position will definitely go a long way towards compensating for his potential loss. Getting more OFF production from MWilliams will also lessen the impact of his potential loss.
Committing to running and maintaining an uptempo OFF, upgrading our half court OFF, and adding more options will definitely lessen the impact of his loss. Bottom line, by spreading the OFF wealth and getting more players involved, getting more consistent bench production and being less dependent on the overall production of one player, will make the Hawks a better overall team in the long run.
To accomplish this, RSund has to sign or trade for a SG that’s capable of playing good DEF and averaging 14-16PPG. Then HC LDrew has to get an average of 12-13PPG and 6-8APG from Teague, and get Marvin back up to his 2007/2008 14PPG average. Just by accomplishing those very manageable tasks, we will have made up JJ’s 21.3PPG. Getting 12PPG from JTeague is 3PPG more than we got from Bibby last yr. If we add the 4PPG increase from Marvin to the 3PPG from Teague over Bibby, we get a 7PPG total increase. By adding that 7PPG to the projected 14PPG from JJ’s replacement, you’ve replaced JJ’s 21.3PPG scoring average. And none of that put’s a lot of pressure on any one player.
With a commitment to consistently running, we can expect more efficient OFF production from JSmith, MEvans, JCrawford and AHorford. During Bibby’s tenure with the Hawks, how many of you can say you ever saw him get a rebound or an outlet pass and go coast to coast. How many times can any of you actually say you saw him penetrate into the lane and dish? His lack of speed, quickness, athleticism, and inability to penetrate and finish, made him the NBA’s easiest PG to cut off and keep out of the lane, even on those rare occasions when he bothered to do.
With Teague at PG, DEF’s will have to commit to keeping him out of the lane, and he’ll definitely present a constant challenge to teams’ transition DEF. And unlike Bibby, he can’t be easily pressured and forced to give the ball up and start the OFF outside of the 3pt line. His DEF ability will create more steals and deflections and make it harder for teams to initiate their OFF and feed the post.
We’ve all seen Teague use his speed, quickness and athleticism defending fast breaks and on pick and rolls to fight over screens and recover to his man quickly enough to challenge or even block his man’s shot attempt. THAT NEVER HAPPENED ONCE WITH BIBBY.
Under HC Larry Drew, the players will be encouraged and required to rely much much more on the team concept, rather than the team relying more on one player, like they did under MWoodson. And I believe that will be the case with or without JJ.
So for all of you glass half empty prognosticators who feel the need to predict nothing but negative minded doom and gloom for the Hawks, just because your beloved Woodson wasn’t rehired and/or the HC you wanted wasn’t hired, I hope you have a miserable off season with your negativism.
drmaryb
June 14th, 2010
10:56 am
Jss
Two competitive & spirted people showing passion and fire in a play-off series game 7, which BTW the
Hawks won! Would you rather a group hug in a loss? You have NO idea what the conversation’s content was.so, why be judgemental? Just eat your popcorn and sip on your cherry – coke … That’s what an ’s entertained fan does. The play-offs are intense by nature. It’s nothing personal towards you the fan – it’s called the heat of the battle!
People who look for reasons to complain and be discontent can easily find it.
Go – Figure.
ICECOLD
June 14th, 2010
10:59 am
as long as he keep mark price, he need to be the 1st assistent coach…. And get dominique to develop josh smith some more…. If jj don’t come back, he need to be in a sign and trade wit josh childress, and a conditional first round pick, we could get d wade or chris bosh for that…. Or at least rudy gay and a backup center or a pure pure shooter off the bench!!
hire woody
then fire WOODY…… Lol
( I just like blamin him!! )
Ramon
June 14th, 2010
11:01 am
KB, your statement is funny because neither of the coaches you mentioned has experience as winning the NBA Finals. And all of the coaches you mentioned were fired from their last gigs. So how are you sure they have a better chance to win a title in Atlanta than Larry Drew? If Van Gundy couldn’t win with Ewing, Yao, McGrady, and others how you expect him to win with the Hawks? Rudy T, is the only one who has won, and he retired from the LAKERS because of health issues. So I doubt he would give up a gold mind like the Lakers to turn around and come work for ASG. Byron Scott isn’t any better than Mike Brown or Woodson to be honest. If Woody had J Kidd at point guard, he may would’ve lasted longer in the playoffs also. And Scott came out of the east the 2-3 years when it was easy to see the best team in the east wouldn’t even have been a top four seed in the West (LA, Sac, Portland, SA), so he didn’t have any competition stopping him.
Ramon
June 14th, 2010
11:05 am
Ken, if the Hawks lose JJ ( I hope they don’t), I think the best model would be for them to look at Houston’s make up. Atlanta has more talent at every position than Houston, so if they’re able to come close to that make up, they could easily still be a top 4 seed next season.
Section 303
June 14th, 2010
11:05 am
Pace Mannion, I watch the games, that’s why I do not put much of the blame on Woodson. The players quit in that series. Poor effort. Made me wish we did not have such p#ssy owners. There are several owners in the league who would have gone in the locker room and tore the place up, if their team gave that kind of effort.
I think the Hawk players should be reminded everyday of how they just rolled over and died in that series.
i_am_soulstar
June 14th, 2010
11:09 am
MC, Can hook me up with a press pass? I’d love to attend this press conference.
Ted M
June 14th, 2010
11:12 am
JSS – I don’t recall the shouting match that Bibby and Hill had. What part of the game did it occur?
LEEDSATLANTA
June 14th, 2010
11:19 am
If we can get 75% of the production out of Jeff Teague that Boston gets from Rondo, we will take some stopping. At the end of the day, the point guard runs the team. Teague can block shots, rebound , take it hard to the rim, dish, has jets and is starting to to develop a nice little floater. Just imagine the player he could be with a consistent jump shot and some confidence from actually playing.
KB
June 14th, 2010
11:21 am
Ramon,
I understand your concerned about the coaches I mention earlier, but they are far better than what the Hawks had in the past. I have been in the ATL for 20 years. I have learned that you need to do things the right way. The Falcons have finally got it right. So why can’t the Hawks do the same?
Ramon, the point is that the Hawks need a seasoned hand to take this team to the next level. Yes Ramon, other than Rudy T. this coaches haven’t won the title. But at least they have been out the 2nd round…….
Mike is back
June 14th, 2010
11:34 am
MC, good stuff..my blog keeps getting eaten up…so I scale it back.
Anyway, after listen to David Aldridge and Steve Smith on NBA TV concerning LD…I feel a lot better about the ASG coaching selection.
I believe the players are right on this…now that LD is the boss…less see if they continue to support him…hmmmmmmmmmmm????????????
lewis
June 14th, 2010
11:43 am
According to his camp’s website, Larry Drew excels in teaching guards how to shoot and control the pace of the game. Hopefully Teague is in good hands.
terrell
June 14th, 2010
11:47 am
Bet it was Teague who said Drew was an encourager, not a screamer like Woody.
Ramon
June 14th, 2010
11:49 am
KB, you said you learned you need to do it the right way, similar to the Falcons. However the Falcons aren’t going by their success with experience, but instead with a first time GM who was a scout, and a first time head coach who was an assistant coach his entire career. So in the head coach the Hawks are going the same way the Falcons have gone about their process. And I just think if either one of those coaches you mentioned were that great, they would be employed elsewhere. Reinsdorf knows about winning championships, after all he’s won 6 of them. Yet he still chose to go with a coach who had never been a head coach before. Pat Riley knows about winning championships, yet he also (for the second time) went with an assistant who had never been a head coach before. Matter of fact, when Van Gundy was first hired by a PLAY OFF TEAM in New York, he had never been a head coach in his career, and to make it worse he never even played in the NBA. Avery Johnson took over a 55+ win team without having head coaching experience on his resume. So all of these other teams have done the exact same thing the Hawks did with hiring Drew, yet you think the Hawks did an injustice?