Atlanta Hawks: Another Way With J.J.

While breaking down the Hawks’ options concerning J.J. and free agency, I mentioned in passing that the Hawks could gain a trade exception and perhaps a draft pick in a sign-and-trade with a team under the salary cap. Aaron, a moderator at Hawksquawk.net, emailed to say he thinks the exception (acquired in what’s known as a “non-simultaneous trade”) could be more beneficial than initially meets the eye:

“The traded player exception (TPE) the Hawks would get by trading him to a team under the cap would be extremely useful in future trades. It’s very possible that the Hawks could move Joe to somewhere like Chicago for a TPE and then turn around and use the TPE to acquire a replacement wing. Just off the top of my head, someone like Corey Maggette would definitely fit the mold of an available scoring wing. (Not sure how he’d feel about Crawford, but it’s just a thought). Joe wouldn’t mind because it wouldn’t affect his bottom line in a negative way, and the team receiving him would definitely be interested because it lowers his initial salary, thereby increasing the salary space they have to pursue complimentary players.”

(What he means by the lower initial salary is that because of the larger future raises available to a Bird Rules free agent, J.J.’s first-year salary would be lower in a sign-and-trade than in a straightforward signing.)

Good point by Aaron, and one that’s actually illustrated by the example I used in the post: Seattle’s sign-and-trade of Rashard Lewis to Orlando in 2008 for a $9 million trade exception and a second-round pick. In a non-simultaneous, a team can acquire up to 100 percent of the salary sent out plus $100,00 with any difference built up as a sort of credit known as a trade exception. Since draft picks have $0 value in trades until the player signs a rookie contract, the Hawks could get a pick and also get the full value of J.J.’s new contract as an exception and acquire a player(s) in a future trade (the limit is a year) without the requirement of matching salaries.

Typically, teams willing to trade a player without receiving a player in return tend to be teams looking to trim payroll and/or get out from under a contract (Maggette, to use Aaron’s example, has 3 years and $30.8 million left on his deal). And that’s pretty much what happened to the Sonics: they used the $9 million exception to acquire Kurt Thomas from the Suns, who were looking to shed payroll and gained an $8 million trade exception.

But the Sonics also got two first-round draft picks in that deal and later dealt Thomas to the Spurs for another first-round pick and a couple of expiring contracts. (That sequence of deals is one of the many examples of why Michael Gearon Jr.’s disdain for “bad contracts” can be a tad overstated: in the NBA, there’s almost always a way to move players for something of value even if it requires some short-term pain.)

So Aaron is right that a trade exception could be no small thing. The Hawks likely wouldn’t be able to get a comparable player to J.J., or might have to take on an burdensome contract do so, but it would provide more possibilities than simply using the mid-level, bi-annual and minimum-salary exceptions to plug the hole.

– The latest on the Hawks coaching search: Dwane Casey is set for another interview, Avery Johnson’s desire for personnel power has been overstated, Larry Drew is being considered and Mark Jackson appears to be a long shot. Rick Sund apparently hasn’t even narrowed down his initial list of candidates to a leading group.

MC

348 comments Add your comment

Gilley

May 24th, 2010
4:02 pm

Great breakdown on the contracts…..So it seems like we are operating under the assumption that Joe Johnson is a goner. FIRST

nickz

May 24th, 2010
4:06 pm

Unfortunately, I don’t see the Hawks being a “true” contender next year without resigning Joe. Barring the playoffs, he’s the leader and best player on our team and there would be no way for us to replace him since we don’t have the cap room to sign a big time free agency. And, Maggette’s a bum we don’t need.

Maybe a new coach and a new offensive strategy will get Joe going again and away from those stupid iso plays…

Hawk n the Ham

May 24th, 2010
4:13 pm

MC

Could the Hawks do a sign and trade to the Bulls, and get Deng (and maybe a draft pick) in return? Deng would be an upgrade at starting SF, and put Marvin back at a 6 man spot.

lewis

May 24th, 2010
4:16 pm

Hawk n the Ham:

I brought it up yesterday but no one responded.
If JJ wants to leave or wants too much money,

J. Johnson + (M. Williams) or (J. Childress) for
K. Hinrich + Luol Deng

Westurd

May 24th, 2010
4:18 pm

Put Marvin in the toilet and flush

lewis

May 24th, 2010
4:25 pm

I think Marvin would play a lot better alongside Noah, Taj and Derrick

hawks poop

May 24th, 2010
4:28 pm

Serious post:
Let’s go ahead and say that JJ resigns and we get a good xs and os coach.

Childress may want to come back to Atlanta since woodys set in stone starters are now competing again. And personally I think he’ll steal that starting role from marvin and put him in the back up role he was meant to play. Which will make him a more aggresive player since hell have limited minutes.
Next teague is going to develop. That shimmer we saw against the cleveland back ups is going to progresse during summer ball and he’s going to come out playing like the pg we’ve all been hoping for since we kissed chris paul goodbye.

A couple more bench pieces and we look like this

Starters
Teague
JJ
Childress
Smoove
Horford

Bench
Bibby
Zaza
Marvin
Crawford
Collins
West
??
??

Now is that really that bad of a team?

CONFEDERATE DAWG

May 24th, 2010
4:31 pm

SIGN NIQUE!!!!

Michael Cunningham

May 24th, 2010
4:33 pm

@ Hawk n the Ham: that’s possible under the rules if the Bulls throw in another player, but then the Bulls would be giving up one of their core pieces and ASG would have to take on Deng’s contract with four years and about $49 million. i don’t think either is likely.

austin

May 24th, 2010
4:34 pm

I think we need to send marvin somewhere and get something in return because he was a ghost this year and did nothing to help this team. i also think jeff teague is gonna fit into his role next year nicely with bibby’s shooting coming off the bench. so MC do you think aquiring a center and moving al to 4 and then have josh at 3 would be a good call if the coach can put it in josh’s head to DRIVE THE BALL? that would leave alot more space for Jamal and jeff teague to drive or shoot the 3…. What do you think???

Kevin

May 24th, 2010
4:47 pm

Ugh. My head hurts from trying to understand this.

terrell

May 24th, 2010
4:55 pm

Larry Drew? Are You kidding me? Why would we hire one of Woodrow’s assistants? Dont even go there Sund! If we go from interviewing Avery to hiring Larry Drew, I’ll …………. !!!! Thought we needed a DIFFERENT voice???

E43

May 24th, 2010
4:58 pm

If Joe is traded, I really think that Marvin Williams should remain and play 39 minutes per game until he hopefully creates a niche in the offense.
Many rookies like B.Jennings C.Paul and company assimilated into systems that really needed them to produce and play at high levels.
Marvin fought for time with childress and also had a long period of time sitting behind that iso heavy offense mainly run for G’s.
I think that alot is being said about trading hawks players when none of the players want it and honestly, Joe Johnson is an irreplaceable top 5 sg and Marvin is the only hawk that is YOUNG and can drive+shoot some mid-long range shots. i think the hawks can improve but i just dont think trading Joe or Marvin is the answer.
i can see the hawks adding fire power on the bench at PF and SF should evans decide to leave but i see no trades

i say force Marvin to a consistent 39MPG
get Teague + Bibby both playing pg in games
Crawford+joe at sg. (ill take my chances on Crawford defensively)
hope that the isos will diminish but that’s just my opinion.

terrell

May 24th, 2010
5:01 pm

Hawks poop, thats a bunch of poop! Isnt that the same team we had this year, – the Fro? We need to add NBA caliber bench players. Send Mario, Hamburger Collins, Joe “cant hit a jumper” Smith and co. packing.

GeeMack

May 24th, 2010
5:01 pm

hawks poop

Why would you want to bring back the same heartless bunch that showed no fight aganist the heartless Magic?

Smoove and Horford are the same players, however Horford is a leader, and it’s time to break that tandem up. They have take you as far as they can. Trade Smoove a get budding star.

E43

May 24th, 2010
5:02 pm

oh yeah childress could take marvins role but i think the hawks need to commit to keeping one of them on the team.

MyView

May 24th, 2010
5:03 pm

Losing Joe could hurt the Hawks, but I dont think it would be dire if the pieces aquired would fit nicely. I also think that without Joe we would see more good in Marvins game if he were more of a focal point and was able to practice touching the ball in an offense geared more towards him. He has all of the tools, but our limited ball/player movement style does not suit Marvins game. If he got regular screens then he’s a good enough shooter. In an offense that had more cuts to the basket, then he can finish well enough (not great but with more touches, he would improve) and is smart enough that I think he could become a better passer. He does not seem to have the hunger required to “get his” when he has to “take it”, but could do “it” if he was designated. I think he could get you 18-19ppg

I think that would also provide Al with another 6 touches with is probably good for 6 or 7 more ppgs for Al.

Im not saying that I want joe gone, but mabe a monte ellis,+ marcus camby+ right coach/system would at least keep the hawks contending.(monte and camby just to name a couple)

Add to that an improved more frequently used jeff teague. Who knows………

terrell

May 24th, 2010
5:07 pm

Why are people assuming Jeff Teague is the new starting pg? I think he has potential too, but remember it was Woody who just recently came out and said next year is Teague’s time. Unfortunately for Woody, and fortunately for us, it was a tad bit too late for that. Hope the new Coach sees what it took Woody 2 years to see. Mike Bibby is over the hill.

DeepDiver

May 24th, 2010
5:10 pm

MC — you think you could refer MB and JS to your excellent blog so they can write with an informed opinion on the Hawks, instead of the usual talking-out-of-the-hindquarters that they usually do?

Thanks so much MC — you have exceeded a pretty high standard set by your predecessor. SS was a fine beat writer but could never be bothered to actually get into the nuts and bolts of the CBA. He also came off as a bit pompous and holier-than-thou when challenged.

High marks, MC.

Big Ray

May 24th, 2010
5:12 pm

Interesting. Chicago does have some players I’m interested in if Joe wants to go there instead of staying here.

To echo the poster who mentioned keeping Joe, this is also a favorable situation with a coach who can better utilize the guys we have. I’m looking forward to an offense that actually spaces well, runs off-ball movement and ball movement, uses screens to free up our best shooters, etc.

No more “Iso and good luck” crap anymore.

li t

May 24th, 2010
5:12 pm

the hawks need to try a sign and trade to move bibby and smoove to dallas for dirk and sign b haywood with the money they r going give to joe your because dallas dont just want to lose dirk and not get anything and draft mikial torrence your staters would be mikial torrence crawford dirk al and b haywood on the bench u would have teague chills marvin j smithe za za thats a contender

Big Ray

May 24th, 2010
5:15 pm

GeeMack ,

You’re sure that the tandem of Smith and Horford has gone as far as it can? Considering they are no more than 24 years old and have only been playing together for three years, I find that a tad hard to believe.

I’m curious as to who you think an adequate replacement (or rather, an upgrade) is?

atl fan

May 24th, 2010
5:24 pm

now the hawks maybe work out a s&t involving bibby joe and smoove for dirk it could clear a enough cap space to sign b haywood but i’m like u li t the hawks need a big man

Najeh Davenpoop

May 24th, 2010
5:25 pm

I thought I had a monopoly on poop on this blog…

atl fan

May 24th, 2010
5:27 pm

Big Ray they need to upgrad at center move al to pf and get a sf that can shoot and play defense because al and smoove are 2 similar players

atl fan

May 24th, 2010
5:28 pm

hey you just like using the word poop hope u have a scooper

terrell

May 24th, 2010
5:34 pm

Sign Joe to a 4yr deal ONLY, draft a sf to replace Marvin in the starting lineup(Paul George)(Move up with Chills rights if we have to), replace Mario with Damien Wilkins, replace Collins and Morris with Kurt Thomas and Jamal McGloire, replace Joe Smith with Drew Gooden, Craig Smith, or Big Baby, and hire a good coach, and we’re set.
Teague/JJ/George/Josh/Al
Bibby/Crawford/Marvin/Gooden/Kurt Thomas/Zaza/Evans/McGloire
Really no need to break up the team just yet. Just add a few vet bigs to frustrate Howard, and see what we can do with a real coach.

Grandad

May 24th, 2010
5:35 pm

Michael:

My question / hypothetical trade may send out a ‘nire’ alert !

I have been to Coon’s site & I’ve now taken:
2 vicodins + 1 darvocet & 3 tylenol. (just kidding)

Non-simultaneous trade:

Joe S&T to New Orleans for Okafor + # 11 draft pick.
Thereby making it a non-simultaneous trade.
(not completed until draft ??? )
N.O.’s motivation besides getting Joe:
shedding Okafor’s egregious contract.
Joe’s motivation / max deal or extra yr. + proximity to LR Ark.
playing alongside Chris Paul & playing in a non abrasive market.
Our motivation – Okafor can defend D.Howard, minus double team.
Plus # 11 pick generates Paul George or Xavier Henry.

The question:
N.O. not under sal. cap.
Can a non-sim. trade be generated w/o recieving team [NO]
being under cap.
Is it even a non-sim. trade?
Michael, I understand if you don’t want to fool with this.
MannyT, nire, Najeh, Sautee, “Hatter”, Big Ray…………
Anybody want to take a crack @ it.
I’m going to see my Neurologist, now.

terrell

May 24th, 2010
5:36 pm

Forgot to put Wilkins on the bench. lol! Evans is probably a goner.

Dr. Dave

May 24th, 2010
5:50 pm

No one should assume that Larry Drew thinks and acts like Woody, and would be a continuation of the same old thing. Drew gets a lot of respect from the players, and would think on his own in decision making. That being said, the general public will think, like Terrell, that this is just more Woody, and probably won’t give him as much of a chance as someone outside of the existing organization.

Hawksfan

May 24th, 2010
5:52 pm

Sign and trade Joe Johnson

The Chicago Bulls get Joe Johnson

The Memphis Grizzlies get Luol Deng and Marvin Williams, maybe even our 1st round draft pick

The Atlanta Hawks get Joakim Noah and O.J. Mayo

There you go Rick Sund, now make it happen, or do I have to make all of the phone calls as well?

tyger

May 24th, 2010
6:08 pm

Trading JJ w/o BIG in return doesn’t help us.

Let’s examine the remaining 4 teams:

Lakers: Bynum, Gasol
Suns: Stoudamire, Lopez
Celtics: KG, Rasheed, Perkins
Magic: Howard, Gortat

One thing in common, real BIGS!!!

Horford and JSmoove as a front-line will only get you to the playoffs, you wont win SHT!

Big Ray

May 24th, 2010
6:11 pm

Grandad ,

Okafor is a quarter-to-a-half inch taller, and maybe 5-10 pounds heavier than Horford. I guess this makes Okafor a center? Just asking. It would be something to see both guys in the same frontcourt, but what do you then do with Josh Smith? Gotta think this through, so I’m guessing trade, because Josh is not a 3, and probably isn’t a guy who thrives coming off the bench. I can only imagine what kind of coach it would take to convince him to do such a thing. Okafor/Horford would provide one tough frontcourt that would gobble up at least 20 rebounds per game by themselves, I’m thinking.

Add a Paul George or Xavier Henry and we may have something. Still have to have an answer at the pg, and though I like Teague, another option may not be a bad idea just in case. You know, make the job Teague’s to lose, then have a backup plan if he actually loses it. Or not….we could just go with a vet/young vet as backup. Bibby is backup, but we are better limiting his minutes.

Big Ray

May 24th, 2010
6:13 pm

Larry Drew is in no way the same as Mike Woodson. There is no reason to believe so. Do we also assume that assistants of other coaches are carbon copies of their bosses? Do you think the exact same way as YOUR boss? I know I don’t…

Grandad

May 24th, 2010
6:18 pm

Big Ray:
“You’re sure that the tandem of Smith and Horford has gone as far as it can? Considering they are no more than 24 years old and have only been playing together for three years, I find that a tad hard to believe.”

I agree / bear with me.

My above question was just thst – a question?
Not my trade of the day, (coming later)
That hpothetical was to help me understand.
I spent 30 min. on L.Coon’s site & I got swimmy headed.

If Joe leaves and we can trade up high enough to get
- Paul George -
we may not be as bad off as we think.
He’s young but can do alot of what Joe does
@ a fraction of the cost + he’s more explosive.
[gets to the line]
And we can still get a vet.
G-dad’s T.o.t.D. after ‘while.

UGA

May 24th, 2010
6:19 pm

Terrell,
I like your ideas alot. I’ve thought Wilkins would be a great fit here for the league minimum. I do want to see though if Marvin is any better under a new coach.

terrell

May 24th, 2010
6:20 pm

Cant believe anyone still has faith in Marvin’s game. It’s been 5 freakin years. Unbelievable!

Grandad

May 24th, 2010
6:24 pm

Big Ray:

I wouldn’t want Okafor to start either.
He would only be a high priced D.Howard defender.
*(Ben Wallace)
My original scenario was to include Collison,
but I was fearful of getting greedy.
My above post…..^…..was written before I saw
your response to my query.

Big Ray

May 24th, 2010
6:25 pm

I love it when people think that Josh and Al are the reason why this team won’t go any further. I agree that we need more size/toughness…but tell me which teams still in the playoffs don’t have the following:

1) An effective pg.

2) An effective wing player who is either an effective/contributing scorer or a more than solid defender.

3) The best player on the team is performing well.

All three elements were missing from our team. All three are why the Magic are the weakest link in this year’s “final four.” The Magic have two “real bigs” who are bigger than anybody on the Celtics squad. Why are they on the verge of being swept with the league’s best center and Defensive Player of the Year?

“Real bigs” is not the only issue, nor is it the biggest issue.

And who the heck cares about Robin Lopez. He’s such a stud that he couldn’t even consistently take the starting job from Channing “I only wipe with Charmin toilet paper because I’m a pansy-a$$” Frye. He gets 20 minutes a game. He’s big, but he ain’t even as good as his brother, who lost an all-star bid to none other than Al Horford.

Bigs. Part of the story, but definitely not the whole story.

mississippi

May 24th, 2010
6:27 pm

Has there been any mention of Jeff Van Gundy? Has he been ruled out or not interested?

JeJe

May 24th, 2010
6:32 pm

Sund is a joke. My sources are telling me he went on 790 saying he wasn’t concerned about the blowout losses to Orlando because other teams were getting blown out too

ILL-logical

May 24th, 2010
6:32 pm

I have to strongly disagree with the notion that Larry Drew is tainted by his presence on the former head coach’s staff. I would in fact argue that his knowledge of the players and politics of this organization provide him with a unique opportunity ,at least in the short term, to take the team to a higher level of performance.

I also strongly disagree with the notion that losing Joe makes the Hawks weaker. As it stands, management is suggesting that joe play for more money but a “different role”. After being the leading scorer-but not the leader-of the team, does anyone rationall believe he is going to be comfortable on THIS team in a non leading scorer/ first option guy? He can be that on a team tht has a greater playoff potential via free agency. If the former coach is to be blamed for the offensive woe’s of the team, Joe has to bear some resposibility as well.

Plus, with Joe it is about the benjamins; remember the point guard thing didn’t work out because he said he didn’t want to do it beause playing point didn’t let him do what he did best:score.

Last, for all of the haters out there ,another coach means another system that can be built around the player’s strengths and not a coach’s arbitrary assignment of roles based on his stubborn attachment to his strategy.Remember a mind is like a paraachute: it works better when it’s open.

Big Ray

May 24th, 2010
6:32 pm

Grandad ,

Not arguing, just pondering. And oh hell yes, I would exercise my avarice right along with you in wanting Collins. I just don’t think New Orleans will give him up, not with CP3’s knees. Heck, they’d probably rather cut bait and run with CP3. Well, maybe not yet, but you can bet they’re at least thinking about it.

As far as Smith and Horford, I’m all for upgrading or finding a better fit….if it can be found, and as long as we can also see to it that we upgrade the 1 and 3 spots (and manage to survive at the 2 if Joe leaves). I’m just tired of people suggesting trading one or the other for some mysterious center that will make everything alright and automatically bring a championship.

People need only look at the Orlando Magic and super duper center Dwight Howard (who has a viable 7 foot backup) to see that this is NOT the end-all be-all in the league.

Besides, how many talented “real centers” do you see these days? Remember when it was Patrick Ewing, Hakeem Olajuwon, Alonzo Mourning, Brad Daugherty, Rik Smits, etc? Dwight would have gotten murdered by every single one of those guys.

JeJe

May 24th, 2010
6:33 pm

WHY DO PPL THINK WE NEED A CENTER WHEN WE HAVE SMOOVE AND AL WHO MUST PLAY THE 4 AND 5. SMOOVE CANNOT PLAY THE FREAKING 3. EVER. HE IS A BETTER 4 THAN 3. HE HAS NO IDEA HOW TO PASS OR DRIBBLE, MEANING HE WILL NEVER BE A 3 IN THIS LEAGUE. JESUS PEOPLE

Big Ray

May 24th, 2010
6:33 pm

And I just typed the whole post in bold. Okay, time to quit for a while…. :roll:

JeJe

May 24th, 2010
6:33 pm

The best part about getting a new coach is that we will finally see Marvin and Teague and if they have anything to offer this team. Getting Avery would be money for Teague (I hope?).

My top 3 coaching candidates in order are: Avery, Sam Mitchell, and Doc Rivers (pipe dream). Sam Mitchell seems like a guy who demands respect and will finally put Smoove in his place. Avery got to THE NBA FINALS. Any coach who gets a team to the Finals should be well respected (Note: D’Antoni never got the Suns there). Avery obviously had no answer for GSW in 2007, but what about Byron and JVG? Byron hardly did anything in NOH and JVG LOST to Dallas in Round 1 in 2006 after being up 2-0 after winning the first 2 games in Dallas.

Anyway, get Avery and see if he wants Teague or try steal Devin Harris from NJN, hoping they can get a PG.

The bottom line is we need a point guard.

And I ask the rest of AJC: IF WE NEED A CENTER, THEN WHAT DO U DO WITH HORFORD AND SMOOVE? THEY ARE STARTERS IN THIS LEAGUEU AND SMOOVE WILL SUFFER AS A PG. SMOOVE IS A TWEENER BUT IS A BETTER PF THAN SF. U CANNOT GET A CENTER WITHOUT TRADING HORFORD OR SMOOVE.

There is no way Chills takes the QO here. He’ll make 4.5 Million playing on the East Coast (I’m pretty sure he’d rather be in Cali) and that’s without his 50% tax bracket. This is opposed to staying in Greece and making 10M a year with no taxes to worry about.

I don’t know anything about Tyrone Corbin as a coach but come on…A borderline elite/ECF team looking at an assistant coach who was a role player here for 4 years?

FIRE WOODY

Big Ray

May 24th, 2010
6:37 pm

JeJe ,

If we add a starting center, we either have to trade Josh Smith or bench him. Can’t bench Al Horford. He’s a major part of the future of this team. In fact, if Joe was gone and I had to choose a single player to keep around and build around, it would be Horford. He’s still got the cheapest contract of all the starters, was named an all-star in his third year, and is a natural leader. And, he’s steadier than Josh Smith any day of the week, despite Smith’s considerable talents. This isn’t an indictment of Smith, just how I view it. I like Smoove, but he has yet to prove he can be trusted to bust his hump and keep his head in the game all or nearly all of the time.

The Truth

May 24th, 2010
6:38 pm

BONEHEADS 2.0!!

I hope the Hawks Org learned something from this pass season; the most important being that size does really matter. Our twitter lineup just isn’t going to work in the post-season (if we are so fortunate to make it there again). The line-up with Al (5) and Josh (4) is fine in situational team match-ups but is not the solution for the long haul. When you add Bibby (who is also a twitter) and the weak bench, perhaps this explain our inconsistent problems and why we played so poorly in the play-off. Let’s not kid ourselves; Phil Jackson couldn’t have done much better with this team.

The new coach need to be a part of re-designing of this team. What we don’t want to happen is Sund making roster changes and additions without the new coach’s inputs. As he continues to interview prospects and take his time (as he should), I hope his decision comes sooner rather than later. The upcoming draft is looming closer and this team has so many gaps to fill, it will take the collected will of both the GM and new coaching staff to take this team to where the ASG has claim it needs to be. Since, the team shortcomings have been well documented from just about every NBA expert on the planet, any attempt to cover-up, mask, or localized the blame to be “just coaching” will not work. If such a tragedy happens, the next firing could come from the office of Rick Sund.

Big Ray

May 24th, 2010
6:38 pm

JeJe ,

:lol: Why are you still saying “Fire Woody”? He’s gone, bro’. It’s okay, I swear….

Big Ray

May 24th, 2010
6:39 pm

The Truth ,

Okay, like I’ve said, I can roll with that? But what is the solution to the size issue in the lineup? Specifics, not the ususal “get a center” vanilla answer. Heard that one too many times already.

Grandad

May 24th, 2010
6:40 pm

Okay, fodder for the Marvanthropists;
Grandad’s Trade of the Day:

* Houston gets Marv. Young talent, palatable contract,
coaches him up, (probably play the [5] for Adelman]

* We get Shane Battier. Vet, leader, def.stopper, exp. contract.
Grandad gets his favorite player. (can play [3] or stretch[4])

Trade works on NBA trade machine.

i_am_soulstar

May 24th, 2010
7:06 pm

Is it rebuilding time??? Pardon me, I’m feeling a bit negative today.

The Horford-Smith tandem in the front court was one of the best of the league. I’m not quite sure they’ve lived up to their potential. Both players are likely years away from their peak, it’d be crazy to trade either of them.

If Joe leaves, then maybe it’s time to keep Horford-Smith, kick the rest out, and rebuild around these two.

I hate to say it, but without Joe, it’s not likely we will be a contender next year, regardless of who’s drawing plays on the sideline.
There are just too many things that have to go right.

On a more positive note, if Joe stays, and Teague starts, I think the Hawks could be alot better defensively.

I’d love for us to be in the top 10 defensively in the league. When’s the last time that happened?

i_am_soulstar

May 24th, 2010
7:13 pm

Grandad, your trade proposals are usually the bane of my existence, but I really, really, really like that one.

The Truth

May 24th, 2010
7:19 pm

Big Ray

The question of “being more specific” is a good one and as you know is where the rubber usually meets the road. For example, if you look at “Big Baby Davis” for the Celtics, he’s no 7-footer either; he’s 6′-9″, but he weighs 289 lbs. He is an underrated skill baseline player. When he’s matched up against D Howard, he holds his own. Our problem has more to do bulk, weight and strength then just height. As good as Al and Josh are at their respective position, when it comes to the playoff, they will continue to be exploited. In the regular season, we can continue to operate just fine with them playing as they are. Why, because with 82-plus games played, we win the law of average. That will get us a playoff ticket but that’s about it. Beyond that, we are chasing “Fools Gold”. As for the question of naming specific players; as with all related solutions, hopefully that will be the job for the new coach. There will be a ton of FA on the market to make this task easier.

jroc

May 24th, 2010
7:21 pm

how about a sign and trade to send jj to the bucks for Salmons and Redd

JeJe

May 24th, 2010
7:32 pm

Big Ray, good post.

But I feel like most Hawks fans WANT A CENTER LIKE HAYWOOD and to KEEP Smoove, moving him to the 3 or insanely to the bench. That’s what pisses me off. If we can get Al Jefferson (not a great defender) or Bynum + trash for Smoove, why not?

Ramon

May 24th, 2010
7:32 pm

Grandad, I have been proposing that trade for the last 3 season, Marvin for Battier, or even Childress for Battier. I guess the deal makes too much sense for the Hawks to do it. But I must admit, its been a long time since the Hawks made a trade that they got the bad end of. Bibby was a good trade. Crawford was a good trade. No matter what they say JJ was a good trade (think about if Belkin was still the owner, he probably would’ve moved the Hawks by now).

JeJe

May 24th, 2010
7:32 pm

Big Ray, good post.

But I feel like most Hawks fans WANT A CENTER LIKE HAYWOOD and to KEEP Smoove, moving him to the 3 or insanely to the bench. That’s what pisses me off. If we can get Al Jefferson (not a great defender) or Bynum + trash for Smoove, why not??

JeJe

May 24th, 2010
7:34 pm

The problem with this team is we don’t have a 5th starter who is a specialty guy. An article in the NYTimes yesterday complimented Perkins and Barnes for being that solid 5th starter who does something well. We have Bibby who sucks and Marvin who is OK at everything, but not great.

And if bibby does not lose 15 pounds this summer (I proposed this LAST summer), just bench his ass. He’s useless. Sekou told me that Bibby looked a bit thick before TC lats year and that our athletic trainers would work him out. WTF did Bibby do last summer?

titanhawk

May 24th, 2010
7:38 pm

trade jamal and bibby for gilbert arenas. trade machine says it works. start teague,jj,gilbert,smooth and al. Draft another point guard, chill,marvin, joe, zaza for 2nd unit.

jroc

May 24th, 2010
7:40 pm

The only way a true big man would come to the Hawks is if they had a legite point gaurd to get him the ball Hopefully sund can bring in a coach that could run and gun These hawks are too young to play slow tempo b-ball.Run and gun and play solid defense on the other end thats what i think the hawks will have to do to make a longer run in the playoffs Open up the offense and stop running isos for jj makes rest of team uninterested Run and gun style offense and get everyone involved.

jroc

May 24th, 2010
7:58 pm

JJ would actually be crazy to leave Atl If he follows D-Wade or Le Boo Boo he turns to the role player he was in Phoenix aka Marvin Williams.Don’t be a follower jj stay in Atl and be a soft atl king

cp

May 24th, 2010
7:59 pm

Yea terrell I really don’t know what more people need to see from Marvin to realize he just aint got it. When he started with the second unit the last game of the season and looked like a guy who should have been coming off the bench himself, I told myself then that he just aint got the drive to get it done. Well I had already felt that way but that game just pushed that point forward even more. I wouldn’t be shocked if we could draft a guy at 24 who would give us the same production as Marvin if not better and would be cheaper. A guy I would like to see on the bench next season is Von Wafer. Dude attacks the rim and is a nice defender. I remember reading 2 years how nice he was looking while working out at the Hawks facility yet they didn’t offer him a contract. Stackhouse did the same last year. He is a better than Mo Evans defensively and offensively. He looked good coming off the bench in Houston 2 years ago . He played over seas last year and wants back in the NBA. He is an improvement over Mario and Mo in my opinion.

Tony

May 24th, 2010
8:08 pm

How do you fix the hawks? To tell you the truth i have no idea. But this is what i do know:
Center: Al Horford, what is wrong with Al playing center? I don’t get why we want to upgrade or trade him. How many centers in this league would I take over Al? Maybe Dwight or Yao (if he can stay healthy).
Power Foward: I’ve said time and time again this team goes as Josh goes. Sorry Joe. If he can continue to mature and develop watch out! That’s why I love Josh because he can dominate on both ends and NO ONE else on this team can do that!!!!
Small Forward: Marvin where are you!!!??? I am still hoping you blossom into that player Jay Bilas said you would be!!! (Jay don’t know crap!!)
Shooting Guard: I could care less if Joe stays. Screw YYYYOOOOOUUUU!!!
Point Guard: Jeff Teague. Nuff Said
Bench:
Jamaal Magloire, Zaza, J-Chill, Mo Evans, J-Craw, Bibby, and James Anderson (Draft Pick-Okst.)
No matter what I would not trade Josh, Al, or Teague

Big Ray

May 24th, 2010
8:14 pm

The Truth ,

For what it’s worth, I’ve just about always found your comments to be well thought out. I don’t have the answers either, I was just a bit starved for palatable conversation when it comes to tweaking the front line. Not that others don’t have good comments, but there is so much screaming of “GET A CENTER” with no preceeding cognitive process whatsoever that it gets old and makes me want to pull my hair out…with tweezers…I go with a very short cut… :lol:

JeJe ,

I hear ya, bro’. I’d rather trade Smoove than bench him or put him at the 3. But like you said, a trade needs to bring us a useful wide body like Jefferson or Bynum. Not sure we can get a guy like that so easily unless the other team has other good options at center.

Here’s an extremely wild thought: what if we could get somebody like Jason Thompson or maybe even Spencer Hawes from Sacramento? Of course, to make it work, they’d have to throw in more than just the one guy. Both guys have started around 59 games each (out of 72 total games each) last season, shooting similar percentages. Both averaged double figures in points, one is 7′0″, the other is 6′11″. Hawes got fewer rebounds (6.1) than Thompson (8.5), both averaged close to a block-and-a-half per game. Hawes is a better passer (2.2 apg).

Maybe get them to throw in Dominic McGuire, Donta Greene, or somebody like that and cash?

Jody

May 24th, 2010
8:30 pm

I might be wrong, but I thought it was Billy Knight who drafted Marvin Williams and not Mike Woodson.

http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/johnson/category/atlanta-hawks/

“Mike Woodson has done a great job all year with the Hawks and now it’s paying dividends. Maybe now management will back off and realize Woodson is one of the best young coaches in the league. Word has it that Woodson wanted the Hawks to draft Chris Paul or Deron Williams instead of Marvin Williams. I hate to imagine how good they would be if management listened to that plea.”

Jody

May 24th, 2010
8:31 pm

One more:

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/shaun_powell/10/23/marvin.williams/index.html

“Billy Knight, the Hawks’ general manager at the time, obviously reached. Even though the Hawks were stocked at forward, and thin at guard, Knight thought Paul was too small. Whoops.”

Jody

May 24th, 2010
8:32 pm

O'Brien

May 24th, 2010
8:37 pm

Can someone tell me why would Houston trade Battier for Marvin? That makes no sense for Houston.

And for everyone talking about how the Hawks need size (and I agree they do), but please post a suggestion as to how the Hawks might acquire this size.

I wonder what kind of value ZaZa has around the league? Could we trade him? Although I like Haywood, I think his asking price will be too high.

Sund has a slow and deliberate way of doing things, but its not like being slow and deliberate has led to consistent successful results…

Jody

May 24th, 2010
8:46 pm

I don’t think the Hawks have to make a trade just to add size to the roster. I think there will be be some guys in free agency that they could look at. In order to win in the playoffs, your big people need to be good role players. It doesn’t matter if they score 20 pts. and grab 10 rebounds. If they can’t adequately defend their position without needing help, protect the paint and the defensive glass, you’re going to lose. If the Hawks do make a trade, I think they could strengthen other areas of the team. For example, look at the Celtics. How many of their big people are 20 and 10 guys? None, but yet they very well could win the title this year.

Jody

May 24th, 2010
8:50 pm

The Truth,

Co-sign all the way.

Najeh Davenpoop

May 24th, 2010
9:11 pm

I think the Rockets would part with Yao before they parted with Battier. Search for the NYT article about him by Michael Lewis and you’ll see why.

Najeh Davenpoop

May 24th, 2010
9:18 pm

Jody at 8:46 pm, great post.

Y’all can scream size size size all you want, but if you want to trade either of the Hawks’ All-Star caliber big men, you better make sure you’re getting an All-Star caliber center in return.

Al Jefferson is a very nice player whose game I’ve always liked, but he is roughly the same size as Horford — he may be a little heavier, but he is certainly no taller, and his reach is significantly shorter. Also, he’s coming off a season where his numbers all dipped significantly in the first year of a new contract, he has already suffered a serious knee injury in his career, and his rep has always been that he is a poor defender and a PF playing out of position at center. Trade Smoove or Horford for him at your own risk, and realize that in doing so, you’re probably not upgrading the Hawks’ ability to guard Howard at all.

Jody

May 24th, 2010
9:32 pm

Najeh Davenpoop,

That’s the thing. I don’t think you have to trade for an All-Star caliber big man. However, that doesn’t mean I would be against trading Al or Smoove if the deal was right and it stengthened the team. My main concern with the Hawks size is that, in the playoffs, they constantly need help inside. As I look at the Celtics big men in these playoffs, I think to myself, Al and Josh are arguably better players. But, when it comes defending the paint and having the size to do it consistently without help, I think all the Celtics bigs are better. I think people get so infatuated with the 20 and 10 statline that they don’t realize what really wins come playoff time. Charles Barkley once said that the game is won and lost in the paint and I truly believe that. When you consistently struggle to control the interior, you’re in trouble.

i_am_soulstar

May 24th, 2010
10:09 pm

Horford trade rumors don’t make any sense. There isn’t an attainable center in the league that is better than Horford, considering productivity and health. The guy made the all-star team for Christ’s sake, and he’s the Hawks most consistent player and highest percentage shooter in his 3rd year in the league. Why on Earth would you want to send this guy packing? If anything, he should be untouchable.

And then assuming that the Hawks grab a starter at the 5 (let’s say ummmmmm Shaq) and Horford moves to the 4, and Sund would rather trade Josh than have him come off the bench and play the 3. Josh is a pretty tough guy to replace, and is likely still improving. You get a big and trade Josh, you’re trading away a player that kills in steals, blocks, points, assists, and rebounds. And you trade this guy away when he hasn’t even peaked. I don’t know about you but I’d rather not be on the wrong side of a dirty deal that haunts this franchise for years to come.

Josh Smith 15.7 PPG 8.7 RPG 4.2 Assists 2.1 Blocks 1.6 Steals

Who else (besides Lebron) has a stat line like this and dominates both ends of the floor?

And he’s only 24.

O'Brien

May 24th, 2010
10:15 pm

Jody,

I agree with your post about size. Another problem for the hawks though, is we don’t play good team defense.

The defense from Jamal and Bibby allow easy penetration and easy looks inside. And then you add our switching, which leaves guys out of position if they don’t rotate quickly.

I look forward to seeing what our defense is like when we apply ball pressure, and reduce our switching.

Grandad

May 24th, 2010
10:31 pm

O’Brien – As I said above Battier 32 Marv 24.[age]
you people, no disrespect intended, have Marv
so undervalued because of your dislike for him
that your reasoning is clouded. Marv has better
stats than S.B. / Look it up. Oh now I suppose
your gonna use my arguments against me.[intangibles]
W/O intangibles Marv grades out better. Plus Marv
doesn’t have bad intangibles. So, why wouldn’t Houston
make that trade?

JeJe

May 24th, 2010
10:41 pm

Big Ray,

I’m a fan of all those guys (LOVE Thompson), but we need a lot more than that if we are to trade Smoove. After trading K-Mart, Sacramento’s talent level is depleted.

Really need this new coach to develop Teague more than anything. The guy plays defense, is athletic as hell, and has gotten bigger. He just needs to use his body on drives like Deron does, and get a jumpshot, and he’ll be very very solid

Jody

May 24th, 2010
10:42 pm

O’Brien,

Oh I agree. The team defense was bad and the switching philosophy was terribly flawed. However, it all starts with the interior. Your perimeter players can be really good defensively, but if opposing teams guards see midgets laying back in the paint, they’re going to drive the ball all day everyday. The Hawks bigs simply don’t scare anybody. Doc Rivers made an interesting comparison the other day. He said that Kendrick Perkins, in some ways, reminded him of Tree Rollins. Not in terms of the shot blocking ability, but because of his prescense and awareness defensively. Doc said that Tree made him a great defensive player because it allowed him to be more agressive defensively. He also deterred guards from wanting to drive the ball which gave the guards greater leverage defensively. That’s what Perkins does for the Celtics. The Hawks have no one who brings that to the table.

O'Brien

May 24th, 2010
10:44 pm

Grandad,

The main reason why Houston wont make that trade is because battier only has 1 year left on his deal. Marvin has 4 years left on his. Why tie yourself down to Marvin?

Not to mention the good defense battier plays. He even guards Kobe.

Grandad

May 24th, 2010
10:46 pm

Just to be clear!
I have never advocated trading Al.
When I suggest a trade for a Big,
usually I’m wanting a 3rd player
in a two position rotation.
J & A are fine but if we have a 3rd
man to add to that mix (starter quality)
plus a true [5] defensively / someone who
can defend the rim, then that’s what
I would push for.
A big that would in essence be another 6th man
(such as Jamal)only a frontcourt player.
Quality depth @ one of the two bigs!

_______________________________________________

Grandad’s Trade’s o’the Day notwithstanding.
Those are to stimulate conversation, reasoning
logic, and make people ”think” other than
dreaming up fantasy basketball trades.

Huh?

May 24th, 2010
11:03 pm

Concerned Fan

May 24th, 2010
11:07 pm

As I said before……

If you have to get rid of JOE Johnson, my suggestion is to try to sign and trade for a DANNY GRANGER. The guy is a legit star playing for a subpar team. They are the same size. He can play forward and shooting guard!!!! He is more athletic and can get to the basket whenever he wants. He doesn’t command a maximum contract like a Joe Johnson, he wont destroy your cap position, he is two years younger, and if you put him around the right group of people I believe that the 24ppg he averaged last season would do some major damage for you. Not to mention…… those numbers went down from previous years as he decided to play more team ball….. Now I’m no General Manager…. but i just felt I had to say this. The guy is waiting to blow up. If you can’t get him for Joe Johnson then something is wrong….. And WHO ELSE out there is even close to worth it if we can’t get a max contract player?!?! JUST A THOUGHT………

Najeh Davenpoop

May 24th, 2010
11:07 pm

Grandad, read this.

I don’t think the Rockets would trade Battier for Joe Johnson, to be honest with you. And other new-school execs who rely on adjusted plus/minus and what not, like OKC’s Sam Presti, probably would value Battier higher than any Hawks player too.

Najeh Davenpoop

May 24th, 2010
11:09 pm

And also, the issue with Marvin is not how good or bad he is. It is that he gets paid at least double what he is worth. As far as trade value is concerned, his biggest crime is not being a bust or a disappointment, it’s being overpaid. If he was getting paid the $4 million a year that he is worth, you could probably find several teams willing to take a flier on him. But nobody is going to trade for him at his current salary unless they are sending back equally terrible contracts.

Huh?

May 24th, 2010
11:16 pm

1st rd draft picks are going for about 3mill a pop. I hear Minnesota and some other teams want to sell. We need to get a couple. Draft Sherron Collins, a wing (or two), and maybe a center (or just court Brandan Heywood.)

Huh?

May 24th, 2010
11:17 pm

Mos Def. Trade Mike Bibby, Mo Evans, and Maybe Zaza if we can get someone better than him.

The Truth

May 24th, 2010
11:38 pm

Concerned Fan

Interesting point, financial though, what’s in it for the Pacer? Why would Indy take on a Max contract of a JJ for a modest contract in Granger for basically the same production? Also, what’s in it for JJ? OK perhaps he gets his max deal but if he gets this same deal on a more competitive team, then maybe he’s not so willing to do it.

Wabe

May 25th, 2010
12:01 am

You guys hear Mike Wilbon just now on the post-game show?

“The C’s played dumb down the stretch. They didn’t run anything…”

“They didn’t attack the defense, they sort of stopped and ran these ISO plays like they’re the ATL HAWKS…”

drmaryb

May 25th, 2010
12:04 am

Who DAT is?

That’s just my Grand-Daddy.

Who DAT is?

That’s just my Grand-Daddy.

Who DAT is?

That’s just my Grand-Daddy!

Girl shut -up! That ain’t yo Grand-Daddy …. That ain’t nobody but T-Bone!

Who is T-Bone? Gurl that’s just my Baby-Daddy!

G-Nite Grand-Daddy! Sleep – Tite!

niremetal

May 25th, 2010
12:05 am

I’m needy!

drmaryb

May 25th, 2010
12:09 am

SNAKES ON A PLANE

The Celtics flying back to Orlando on Tuesday……mmmmh. Cancel my ticket please, ill take another flight.

smh

May 25th, 2010
12:16 am

I’m sorry but those links proved nothing. One was Eddie Johnsons opinion and anybody who has read his stuff knows he doesn’t know what he is talking about half the time. The other is correct but guess what BK wanted Deron. I really don’t know how people still don’t know this info by now. Bk wanted Deron because he liked his size but Woodson thought he was poorly conditioned and wondered if he would be able to stay in shape. He also thought Paul was too small and couldn’t shoot because he came out and said it. I remember this like it was yesterday. Bk wanted Deron, others in the orginization wanted Paul, and Woodson wanted a vet pg. I think there was even a story about this about how everyone was divided about that pick Thats all Woodrow would talk about a vet pg to run his team. You really need to go back in the archives and read some of Woodrows quotes about what kind of guys he wanted. BK should have went with the pick he wanted. Woodpecker wanted no parts of CP3 or Deron. You can go back to the year they took Sheldon. All Woodson would talk about is they need size because they were giving up way too many points in the paint and needed a big.Woodrow hollered about wanting a vet pg the whole time he was here.

Grandad

May 25th, 2010
12:19 am

Najeh:

Dang all these new-age guys!
Catchin’ on to all us old schoolers.
The reason I love Battier so much,
and have since his college days, is
the old coach comin’ out in me.
He’s the kind of player I wanted on
my teams. I didn’t need a computer
to tell me though, I just watched ‘em
play. Battier is a warrior, leader,
a glue guy, a great teammate but 1st
and foremost he is a winner.
*Hondo
*Rodman
*Ron Harper
*Derek Fisher
*Kyle Lowry
*Chuck Hayes
*Eduardo Najera
*chauncey Billups
*Joakim Noah
*Bob Sura
Didn’t need a spreadsheet to tell me
these guys are winners either.

Bottom line you & O’B are right.
If you’re playin’ GM you gotta ‘try’ & snooker the other fella.

drmaryb

May 25th, 2010
12:22 am

Truth

JJ doesn’t speak often. Didn’t you see the presser with him & Smoove in RD 1?
Smoove got 99% of the questions & barked, ” JJ is the All-Star – ask him a question!”

JJ was slumped forward & I thought his head would hit the table. He looked like a sleepy hound.

Here’s my point: When asked about his trade situation toward seasons end?
JJ spoke! He clearly stated he would NOT play for a rebuilding team. Period.
(He is a man of action – Not words!

So people, please stop proposing DUMB trades of him going to a loser.
He likes this team that he has helped built. He wants a Coach who can get these guys on the same page offensively & defensively & with a better bench & to find its missing parts!

Silly Steve

May 25th, 2010
12:32 am

Big Ray,

Why would you want anyone from the kings… they suck! (aside from tyreke :) )

Joeee Johnson

May 25th, 2010
12:35 am

Alright, listen this is the LAST time. I am a UFA UNRESTRICETED key word. All these sign and trades PIPE dreams are just that. The Hawks will do what I say when I say it. Not the other way around. Aint nobody goona trade Jack unless I approve it. Ya Digg??? Now the Hawks can either give me what I want OR I go where I WANT TO GO. Period!! So if they wont give me a max deal, Ill tell thier azzes to kick rocks and take a few million less to goto a REAL contender. There will be a championship team built this summer and if the HAWKS dont ante up thats my destination. Who’s ur Daddy? Whats my name whats my name whats my name…..

drmaryb

May 25th, 2010
12:38 am

Concerned?

Unless you are discussing a block-buster three team trade? JJ is NOT …. NOT. …NOT going to INDY!
Geez what part about we have NO NO NO rights to trade him anywhere!

He & his agent will find a team of his choosing & the Hawks can only REACT to it or not!

Geez – Man! Go get some sleep & leave us alone! OMG!

drmaryb

May 25th, 2010
12:58 am

Joooee Johnson

Thank You….Thank You…..Thank You!!! God Knows that dr.maryb Thanks You for your Brake Job on here!
I was posting simultaneously to you! I was in the process of cancelling my blog account until next season, when your blog popped up!

I can NOT listen to any more 15 year old crack heads posting about the Hawks trading Mr. Johnson somewhere. Thanks to you I may stick around a little. I was on my way to the Falcons “Bird Cage” Blog.

We have NO rights to Mr. Johnson peopke. We can only talk about trading the remaining players that ARE under contract!!!!!

That’s All Folks! Looney Tunes, Inc.

Ken Strickland

May 25th, 2010
1:01 am

Now that we’ve finally gotten rid of our biggest liability, HC MWoodson, everyone seems to be obsessed with getting rid of our assets. We don’t have to trade anyone, other than JJ if he refuses to resign, to become a much better team. We have to:

(1) Get a HC that actually gives a damn about the OFF and knows how to put one in place that can and will include everyone.

(2) Bring in a SG/SF combo player like CMaggette if JJ isn’t resigned, or,

(3) Resign JJ and get him to buy into the new OFF concept and not disrupt ball movement, or

(4) Promote JCrawford and draft a SG.

(5) Bring in another PG that can either start, or backup JTeague. Bibby should be the #3 backup PG/SG option.

(6) Resign JoSmith and RMorris.

Where do you get this idea that trading certain Hawk players you don’t like for players from other teams you do like will automatically make us a better team? Or, moving Horford to PF and replacing him with someone that’s not as productive, but is taller and fits whatever delusional idea some of you have of what a so called true center is.

Despite what any of you think, this team, with Smoove’s issues, Marvin and Bibby’s inconsistencies and lack of production, and Horford @ C, was still talented enough to overcome inadequate coaching, an OFF/DEF @ PG, an OFF liability @SF, and a flawed and limited half court DEF, OFF and OFF philosophy, to win 53gms.

Rod from College Park

May 25th, 2010
1:06 am

terrell,

“Cant believe anyone still has faith in Marvin’s game. It’s been 5 freakin years. Unbelievable!”

I convinced some people on this blog are related to him. So they want to see a new coach come to Atlanta, and give a guy who no one in the league respects, a bigger role? Maybe with a new coach he will be able to dribble more than 3 times without picking up his dribble. Maybe the new coach will help him finish one on one against Jameer Nelson or Brandon Jennings. Maybe he will teach him how to hit wide open shots. LOL

Ken Strickland

May 25th, 2010
1:07 am

CONCERNED FAN-2 questions. (1) IF DANNY GRANGER IS ALL THAT YOU SAY HE IS, WHY IN THE HELL WOULD INDY WANT TO GET RID OF HIM AND PAY MORE TO SIGN JJ?

(2) AND WHY WOULD JJ WANT TO PLAY ON A SUBPAR TEAM IN A SMALL MARKET?

Grandad

May 25th, 2010
1:32 am

Ken Strickland – I pretty much think you and I are on the same page
with the amendment of a 3rd BIG in rotation with Al & Josh. I would
not want that 3rd BIG to be another player who has to play “up”.
By that I mean having to go against superior size all the time.
If our 3rd were a true [Center body type] who could defend the
rim it would allow the new Coach to explore match-ups. Much like
Jamal is a weapon off the bench, so would our new Big, if we had one?
Think Lamar Odum in rotation in LA. The dif. is they have the twin towers & bring in a smaller body type. With us it could simply be reversed. This idea is not a reflection on Al. Our 3rd Big could
even be someone who is a stretch Big as Ramon was saying earlier
about ‘Dirk’. Just a dif. look. However in my mind a “rim defender” would be more useful. I’m out.

Grandad

May 25th, 2010
1:44 am

Rod from College Park – Not related. But would be proud if he were
my son. I wish to see him perform under the guidance of another
[real] coach. Whether here or somewhere else. If then, he’s a slug,
I will acquiesce.
I’m not here today saying I have faith or not – only, wait & see.
As always your respectful dilettante.

northcyde

May 25th, 2010
2:10 am

The problem with the Hawks . . . is that we’re a SOFT BASKETBALL TEAM.

JJ even said this after that Game 3 beatdown vs Milwaukee. I believe it was drmaryb that said “we need a bad azz”. And she’s exactly right. Matter of fact, we may need 2 or 3 bad azzes at multiple positions.

- our guards ( Bibby and Crawford ) are soft, with their inability to constantly fight through picks. Bibby especially was very weak in this department. Teague isn’t much better either, although he’ll get a pass for the limited minutes he played.

- JJ is soft, because when it comes time to get something from the FT line, he doesn’t go all out to the hole to draw contact. It’s the #1 weakness in his game, and really the thing preventing him from being a borderline superstar.

- Smoove is soft, because he doesn’t like to put a body on anybody when going for rebounds . . which prevents him from being an 11+ a game rebounder. I’ve been wishing for years for Smoove to at least play like Shawn Kemp, but I don’t know it will ever happen.

- Horford isn’t soft, but with him playing center, it takes some of his effectiveness away from him. When centers start to punk him, he really goes into a shell and loses some of his fight.

Believe it or not, the toughest guys on our team may be Zaza and Marvin. But even they are inconsistent as hell on defense, and don’t fight hard enough to get rebound positioning at time. Zaza does it on the offensive end, but not on the defensive end. And Marvin’s rebound production comes and goes like the wind. So hell . . you could easily label them as being “soft” as well.

Soft teams don’t win championships, nor even put themselves in position to play for one. That’s the reason why we hovered around the 12th – 16th range in defense all year. If we keep the core of this team together, they HAVE to be surrounded by tougher guys, in order for us to go further in the playoffs.

Talent and athleticism will get you through the regular season fine. But when the playoffs come, you better be tough, both physically and mentally.

Najeh Davenpoop

May 25th, 2010
2:29 am

A little update for the person (people?) who keep advocating the Hawks acquiring A.J. Price.

northcyde

May 25th, 2010
2:30 am

Shawn Kemp was one of the best “in-traffic” dunkers I’ve ever seen. If we can get Smoove to play with this type of intensity and fierceness when going to the hole, he could take his game to the next level. He needs to purge all of that Rasheed Wallace out of his game, and play like Kemp.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQbUastCD5E

Grandad

May 25th, 2010
2:31 am

Dadgum northcyde – Co-Sign @ 2:10 AM ! Let’s Go Peay !

northcyde

May 25th, 2010
2:41 am

@ Jody . . . all of that stuff you’re seeing all over the net concerning Woody and Marvin, is actually sportswriters repeating some of the stuff that WE SAY on Hawksquawk and on here. A lot of those writers from other teams or national NBA writers use the blogs as their “unnamed source”.

Think about it. What do those writers know about the Hawks? They didn’t even started paying attention to this team until we won Game 4 vs Boston. And they really didn’t take us serious until this year.

Back in the day, writers like Chad Ford used to be all over these blogs and other Hawk boards, repeating the same stuff that us bloggers were theorizing, and stating that his “sources” told him this or that.

northcyde

May 25th, 2010
2:54 am

LOL @ Grandad . . . the Peay was “soft” this year too.

When it comes to basketball, you definitely need talent most of all to win. But if you play soft, you’ll end up like those early and mid 90s San Antonio Spurs teams that could never get past the 2nd round. They only did it one time from 1989 through 1998

- 8 playoff appearances in 9 years
- 1 Western Conference Finals appearance
- 4 losses in the Semifinals
- 3 losses in the 1st round
- never lower than a #5 seed in any of those playoffs

It took them basically tanking a season when David Robinson got hurt ( the year Dominique was a Spur ) . . them winning the draft lottery . . and them picking Tim Duncan . . for them to overcome their “softness”.

Phillip

May 25th, 2010
3:29 am

Not sure if this has been touched on before or not but if we keep JJ will we have any room under the cap to make additional moves or will we pretty much be the same team as last year (plus our draft pick)?

O'Brien

May 25th, 2010
7:24 am

northcyde,

I agree that the Hawks are soft, and we need somebody with some toughness. But sometimes, the players with toughness who are available, come with baggage (for example, Ron Artest and Stephen Jackson). And the Hawks traditionally stay away from guys who might present Chemistry issues.

But as the GM, its Sund’s job to find players toto fill those roles, so I will be waiting and watching to see what he does. We also need a third PG, because I dont want to be forced to rely on Teague and Bibby.

Ken Strickland,

I am in favor of bringing RandMo back, but I dont think its worth bringing Joe Smith back. We need a better option at the backup PF spot.

Big Ray

May 25th, 2010
7:42 am

Haven’t seen too many guys punk Horford, and as I recall, he was the toughest guy on the court in a Hawks uniform (besides Zaza) when we played Boston in the 2008 playoffs. Or did we forget who was jaw-jacking with Paul Pierce and stuffing Garnett at the rim (even if it was called a foul)?

Marvin is most definitely NOT one of the toughest guys on this team. Nobody flops and flails on their way to the hoop more than he does.

If Smoove acted like Shawn Kemp, I’d be happy as hell.

doc

May 25th, 2010
8:10 am

northcyde, i have been saying for years when josh dropped the smoove crap and became j smash we would become real contenders. i hate the smoove stuff as no one smoove can be tough.

[...] know so far is that Avery Johnson has been interviewed twice for the job. He seems interested and Michael Cunningham said in a recent blog post that Johnson’s desire for personnel power has be…. If MC is reporting it then it is good enough for me. All indications are that Johnson is [...]

Rod from College Park

May 25th, 2010
9:05 am

northcyde,

Marvin is not even close to one of the toughest guys on the team. He is easily the softest guy in the starting lineup. Mo Evans is much tougher than him. I would even say that over his career, Bibby is much tougher than Marvin has ever been.

Josh in no way is soft. He bangs with guys much bigger than him and holds his own every night. Being a great shot blocker most of the time keeps you from being soft, because there is some form of intimidation there. Josh is 6′9, 240, Kemp was 6′10 280, no comparison. Please don’t confuse soft with being undersized.

cp

May 25th, 2010
9:21 am

lol yea ray I was about to ask northcyde what Marvin was he seeing because the one on the Hawks isn’t tough at all.

O'Brien

May 25th, 2010
9:57 am

Speaking of being undersized, I wonder if our GM suggested to Horford (or even Smith) that they should try and add 10-15 pounds of muscle this offseason?

Hawks need to add a bruiser to the frontcourt. Who is available that fits the bill? I dont know. Because I wouldnt consider Kwame Brown, Haywood, and those guys bruisers. I do like Haywood though, but I think his price tag will be too high.

I also like (restricted) Josh Boone from the Nets. He is only 6-9, 6-10, but he plays with energy and effort, rebounds well, and he could play spot minutes at PF and Center. Plus I think he could be had for cheap.

We’ve all talked about how the Hawks need shooters. There is Mike Miller, Kyle Korver, and some other guys who are available. But I think the cheapest option will be JJ Redick. However, he is a restricted FA, and I would be surprised if the Magic dont match any reasonable offers.

Melvin

May 25th, 2010
10:28 am

OB,

Haywood would be my 1st choice and Ben Wallace would be my second. I would bring Kwame in to fill the Collins role. Also, I like Amir Johnson, high energy guy that hustles and rebound and don’t mind coming off the bench. Recap: Haywood or Wallace (backup C), Amir Johnson (backup PF) and Kwame (3rd C). Would be my choice of bigs to sign.

mp

May 25th, 2010
10:28 am

Marvin Williams and JJ for Chris Paul and Okaford

Dr. Warren

May 25th, 2010
10:45 am

Marvin needs a chance under a new coach. Period. Woody sucked at developing players and Marvin is a victim of that.

CajunStorm

May 25th, 2010
10:46 am

Sign Avery and upgrae the bench. Add Josh Chidress, and bring in FA Brendan Haywood. Keep Joe Smith, Mo Evans, ZAZA, an 2 others that can contribute.

A different offensive scheme will make our current starting 5 more potent an consistent. Teague will make them more explosive, JJ, Jamal, and even Marvin would have more movement and more catch and shoots. We’ll get 50+ wins again but be a much better team.

Avery Johnson is the most important signing this team can make!!!

BTW, We’ll also have Jamal and Mo Evan’s expiring contracts to better the team at the trade deadline if needed.

Dee

May 25th, 2010
10:54 am

I dont know much about salary caps, if JJ leaves how do people feel about getting Gilbert Arenas. Washington does not want him around Wall if they draft him and he will give you the points that JJ is leaving with.

terrell

May 25th, 2010
10:59 am

Vince Carter looked like Marvin out there last night. lol! I dont like Orlando at all, but I’m glad they didn’t get swept last night. I just hate Boston that much more.. Never got over that Nique-Bird series when Bird was getting all the calls, just like Lebron, Kobe, etc…. does now. Btw, that was one of the best, if not the best, game 7’s of all-time.

terrell

May 25th, 2010
11:07 am

CP, Von Wafer > Mario? Yes. Von Wafer > Mo Evans? No

terrell

May 25th, 2010
11:11 am

And Jody, if Woody didn’t want Marvin, why in the hell did he continue to start his sorry butt when Billy left?

terrell

May 25th, 2010
11:14 am

Northcyde, if Marvin is the toughest player on them, we’re in trouble.

JoJo the Godfather

May 25th, 2010
11:37 am

Sign and trade JJ for Kirk Hinrich & future pick (solid defender, 3pt shooter, can play some SG).

Trade Marvin & Bibby for Rip Hamilton (solid defender, great at coming off screens).

Trade Crawford for Andre Iguodala (one of best defenders in the league, passes well, rebounds, and finishes around the rim at a high %, SG & SF).

Sign Childress (first guy off the bench backing up SG & SF).

Eight man core with total salaries just under $64M:

Hinrich / Teague
Hamilton
Iguodala / Childress
Smith
Horford / Pachulia

This should easily be one of the better defensive teams in the league. On offense, each player is a solid passer, runs the floor well, and with the exception of Pachulia finishes strong at the rim. Up the tempo!!!

The Truth

May 25th, 2010
11:44 am

Dee

The only way Gilbert Arenas would even be considered is if somehow his current “Max” contract is terminated and he becomes a FA. This is unlikely since the Wizards get nothing out that deal. I think as long as he is a serviceable player, he and his Max contract stays with his current team.

ILL-logical

May 25th, 2010
11:51 am

@O’Brien. I’ve been thinking the same thing regarding Al and adding heft(and strength). I am of the opinion that while Al at 6′8/9″ has size for a4, his lateral movement and overall agility raise questions in my mind as to w/not he would be an All-Star at the 4.If he continues to gain experience at the 5 AND gains some heft ,then maybe it is not a bad thing for him to remain at the 5.

Now, all the Hawks need is a heady,quick penetrating point guard that can drive and dish as well as score and play some serious D and they will be in business.

Big Ray

May 25th, 2010
12:33 pm

zzzzzzzzzz….zzzzzzzzz…..zzzzzzzz

terrell

May 25th, 2010
12:36 pm

What in the world has Larry Drew done, to warrant all this attention? I never said he was just like Woody. All I was saying is, why hire someone that’s been here for 6 years and has already had some kind of influence on the players? “Time for a new voice”. And I wouldn’t actually call Drew a new voice.

Ken Strickland

May 25th, 2010
12:38 pm

While it certainly wouldn’t hurt for the Hawks to have a bit more toughness, it’s certainly not one of our major problems as I see it. The Lakers have been called soft as well, but it certainly didn’t stop them from winning an NBA title. In fact, the Cavaliers have been called soft, along with the Suns and Mavericks, and these teams have been among the NBA’s winningest teams over the last few yrs.

Being bullies doesn’t put a team in a better position to win an NBA title if they don’t have the OFF/DEF talent and coaching to go along with it.

GRANDAD-Agreed. I’d like us to acquire a center like BHeywood to be our #2 backup center. If we can’t get him, then we need to get someone like DJ MBenga from LA. At 7′ 255lbs, he’s very athletic, runs the floor extremely well, rebounds and protects the basket well. He’s not a polished OFF player at this point, but we’d need his athleticism, rebounding and DEF most.

An alternative to this scenario would be if we could take advantage of the situation in Washington. There’s very little chance of them being able to trade GArenas with his situation and that tremendous contract, and they’re not likely willing to eat his contract. So, we agree to give them JSmith in return for them drafting Kentucky PG Walls and sending him to us. We’d probably have to involve a 3rd team, or take back some filler to make it work.

Adding a FA like BHeywood and acquiring PG Walls would certainly give JJ something serious to think about when it comes to his decision to resign. Imagine a starting lineup of SF-MWilliams, C-BHeywood, PF-AHorford, SG-JJohnson and PG-Walls. BENCH: ZPachulia-C, RMorris-PF/C, JCrawford-SG, JTeague-PG, MBibby-SG/PG, Draft pick/JoSmith, JCollins or MEvans.

Having Horford, Heywood, Zaza and Morris as a 4 headed center, with 3 of them(Horford, Zaza and Morris) having the versatility to effectively play PF, would give us some serious versatility, depth and match up advantages.

Even without JJ, a roster of SG-Crawford/draft pick, SF-MWilliams/CMaggette, PG-JTeague/Bibby/FA, C-Horford/Heywood/Zaza, PF-JSmith/RMorris, and either JCollins, JSmith or MEvans to round out the roster, would be solid. And, it wouldn’t involve any disruptive trades, roster turnover or potential chemistry issues.

terrell

May 25th, 2010
12:47 pm

Ken, it’s Wall, not Walls. lol! Plus Washington would never do that. No way no how. Marvin starting over Maggette? R u serious?

northcyde

May 25th, 2010
12:59 pm

I’m not trying to hype up Marvin by any means, because he’s regressed as a player this year. But he’s really the only guy on the team that tries to go hard as he can to the hole to draw fouls. It’s just that he looks almost uncoordinated when he does it. Zaza could be classified as doing the same thing.

Marvin, from a physical standpoint, is fine. It’s his mental softness that kills him as a player. Out of all the Hawks, he’s probably the most mentally weak. But that guy has tried to go hard to the hole at times, and has gotten hammered. But his mental weakness doesn’t allow him to develop that part of his game effectively enough for it to be an asset.

Rod . . . Josh Smith is soft. Yeah, he goes up against bigger players, but he’s not physical in the paint at all. That’s a big weakness in his game, and what prevents him from being a premier PF in this league. He doesn’t get a lot of fouls called against him, even when he gets hit, because he’s going to the hole way too weak.

For most of Kemp’s career, he was NOT 6-10 . . 280 lbs. Did you click on the youtube link that I posted? Did that look like a 280 lb guy doing all of that? No. Kemp played between 230 – 250 the vast majority of his career. It wasn’t until he started getting hurt in Cleveland, that he put on the pounds and ballooned to around the 280 – 290 mark. But Kemp had the same body type as Smoove. He was just a lot tougher than Josh.

LOL @ Doc . . . I like that . . . J Smash. He really needs to take on that personna, to take his game to the next level, and for the Horford – Smith lineup to really work during the playoffs.

As much ISO offense that we ran not only with JJ, but with everybody, our FT attempts were pretty low.

Josh took the most FTs at 5.2 per game, and has hovered between the 5 and 6 FTs per game mark for 4 years now.

JJ only took 3.5 per game,, down from the 4.6 FTs he took last year.

Horford was even worse at 3.3 per game . . even though that was a career high.

Marvin attempted a career low 2.7 FTs, well off of the 5.1 FTs per game he attempted during the 2007 – 08 season.

A lot of those 4th quarter collapses this year could’ve been prevented, had we just gotten to the FT line and scored some easy points.

Rufus1

May 25th, 2010
1:03 pm

I like the Maggette Idea…If Joe leaves

Trade Joe to Dallas for Dampier..Then trade Dampier for Magette and the TPE…Sounds like a plan.

We don’t need a dominate center we need servicable centers like Etan Thomas, Dj Mbanga or Kurt Thomas.

The real key to the Hawks success in the future, is Teague become like Rondo and a coach who can game plan.

O'Brien

May 25th, 2010
1:11 pm

I give Orlando some credit for not folding last night. But I thought this was hilarious.

“I found Vince Carter. He was on the milk carton in my refrigerator.” — Kevin McHale on NBA TV talking about Carter’s no-show performance against the Celtics.

I dont know why the Magic thought that trading for VInce was the right thing to do. He has never been a clutch player, and he does not have the intangibles that Hedo has. That being said, I wont be surprised if he has a good game 5.

I’m starting to like the idea even more, of bringing in a veteran coach. We are not a young team any more (except for Teague), so I can understand if Sund prefers a HC with more experience (although I’m a fan of Thibodeau).

Ken Strickland,

No way Washington trades the #1 pick away. Now if you can figure out a way to get Collison from New Orleans (CP3’s backup), that might work.

northcyde,

Another thing with Josh is he has to stop whining so much. Nobody likes whiners (especially refs). Unless you’re a borderline superstar who gets away with the whining, he needs to just focus on playing basketball. Plus it hurts the team when he is late getting back.

Another thing that should help us get to the line, is a PG that can penetrate. Bibby attempted 79 FT in 80 games. That’s 1.01 FTA per game, from a starting PG. I wonder where he ranks in PGs and their FTA.

O'Brien

May 25th, 2010
1:13 pm

* Actually, thats 0.9875 FTA per game for Bibby

Grandad

May 25th, 2010
1:28 pm

Ken Strickland – I’ve always liked *DJ MBenga;
his potential & *toughness (black belt in ‘Judo’)
Didn’t he play for Avery in Dallas?

I MUS WRITE

May 25th, 2010
1:44 pm

Enter your comments here

I MUS WRITE

May 25th, 2010
1:59 pm

Cant believe some people want the likes of Maggette,Okafor and Deng on our team. these guys spend alot of time in street clothes. have we learned anything from the speedy claxton debacle….

Gee Mack-I dont think Al and josh have reached their full potential as players but i see where you’re going. We need a bigger body on our front line or well continue to get dominated in the playoffs.

Bigs I wouldnt mind having: R.Lopez,Jason Thompson,J.Noah

Also Resign JJ and bring back Afro Power- Ship Marvin for whatever we could get-seriously I would take Matt Bonner for Marvin at this point.

I dont know if the numbers work but I would offer Josh/Bibby/24th pick
for
Noah/Heinrich

Starterss: Heinrich/JJ/Chillz/Horford/Noah
Bench: Teague/Crawford/D.Wilkins/Morris/Siler/Mo/Anthony Randolph-budding yung talent lost in the world of Nelly ball

Collins and Joe Smith can hit the bricks thanks for absolutely nothing.

I MUS WRITE

May 25th, 2010
2:17 pm

Nothcyde _ cant believe u just said ZAZA and Marvin were our toughest players. Please explain this…… As I recall Marvin gets his shot swatted atleast 3 times a game,the man has no heart- softer than Charmin toilet paper. ZAZA has to be a banger because he has no game,he strictly a hustle guy. what makes ZAZA so tough?

Also-Josh will never ever be what Shawn Kemp was. The Rain Man had it all…Handles,Mid Rang Shot,Rebounding,Defense,and Off the charts Athleticism. I never saw Kemp back down from anyone. I saw Smoove and the rest of our guys flat out quit against The Magic

northcyde

May 25th, 2010
2:51 pm

Marvin doesn’t know how to use his body. Nor does Zaza. But they’re the two most likely to bang with people. As I said, Marvin’s problem is not that he’s physically weak, but that he’s mentally weak. Zaza will bang with anybody, even Howard. He simply lacks talent.

I want the Marvin back that used to try to dunk on people. This is a Shawn Kemp like dunk from Marvin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHqGriU3Le4

Rod from College Park

May 25th, 2010
3:02 pm

Northcyde,

“Rod . . . Josh Smith is soft. Yeah, he goes up against bigger players, but he’s not physical in the paint at all. That’s a big weakness in his game, and what prevents him from being a premier PF in this league. He doesn’t get a lot of fouls called against him, even when he gets hit, because he’s going to the hole way too weak.”

So are you saying he is soft because he has no offensive moves? You are actually telling me that Marvin goes to the hole stronger than Josh? Being soft has nothing to do with not having offensive moves. Some of the top power forwards in the league are, Dirk, Bosh, Garnett, Aldridge, and Boozer, and Stoudemire. All are better offensively, but none better defensively than Josh. Josh is more physical defensively than all listed except for maybe Garnett and Boozer. He also never gets hurt, which would relate to him being soft. I will agree that he sometimes does not play with maximum effort, or does not box out, but soft is not a term that should be used to describe him. Also, as I stated he is smaller than all of the guys listed. Again please don’t confuse being undersized or having a lack of skill finishing around the basket with both hands, with being soft. Marvin is SOFT as wet baby boo boo. If any of those power forwards listed above get Marvin in the post, they exploit him like he is not even there, and Marv and Josh are the same size.

The Truth

May 25th, 2010
3:19 pm

I MUS WRITE

Speaking of Garrett Siler, expect to see this guy in a NBA basketball uniform soon. Bigs are still a rare commodity in the game of basketball. As he gains more experience and with his new association with Yao Ming,it is just a matter time. The Houston Rockets will likely be his first stop.

Garret Siler: Yao Ming’s involvement has helped me with every aspect of my game, period. He’s been getting me in good shape and showing me some new moves.

Rod from College Park

May 25th, 2010
3:20 pm

“I want the Marvin back that used to try to dunk on people. This is a Shawn Kemp like dunk from Marvin.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHqGriU3Le4

One dunk Northcyde. Really. How many times has Josh dunked on someone. The sign of a guy who really finishes strong is when guys don’t go up with them to prevent being on a poster. Josh is on that level when it comes to dunks.

northcyde

May 25th, 2010
3:32 pm

Rod . . . Smoove hardly ever dunks on people in the half court. Smoove gets open court dunks most of the time. Now he has dunked on people, no doubt on that. But he’s much more of a finesse guy than anything.

As athletic as Smoove is, when is the last time you saw him catch a rebound in the air and dunk it? That’s not his game, even if it should be. For him to get to that next level as a PF, he has to play MUCH STRONGER, than what he plays currently.

cp

May 25th, 2010
3:34 pm

I’m sorry Terrell but Wafer in his last year with Houston put up better numbers than Mo did in his best year which was with Orlando. Wafer came off the bench while Mo started a lot of games. To be honest with you Mo was pretty much terrible for half of the season. Check out Mo’s playoff numbers. Wafer put up better numbers in that category to. Wafer is younger and will be cheaper. Plus he can finish in traffic a lot better than Mo. How many dunks did we see Mo blow over the past two years if it was anybody even near the rim. I like Wafer to replace Mo.

cp

May 25th, 2010
3:36 pm

In his first two years Smoove used to try to dunk everything and on anybody with force. I think after he was hearing how he was only a dunker he changed his game. Go look at some old clips of Josh. Dude used to dunk so hard now he tries to do way too many layups. He blowed a lot of easy shots the past few years trying to be finesse instead of using the power he used to.

Jody

May 25th, 2010
3:37 pm

northcyde,smh

We’ll just agree to disagree on who made the call to draft Marvin. I enjoy reading your comments.

Rod from College Park

May 25th, 2010
3:53 pm

northcyde,

I agree with you that Josh can go stronger to the hole, but that has nothing to do with being soft. But to compare him to Marvin in that light is disrespectful. As cp said Josh probably has more dunk attempts in his first two years in the league than Marvin has completed dunks in his whole career. Josh simply needs to work on his touch around the basket, as his high flying, rim rattling days are behind him. There is no better guy to help him with that than Nique.

O'Brien

May 25th, 2010
3:57 pm

Didn’t the hawks have a chance to sign Von wafer for cheap sometime ago?

If we resign JJ, I hope mo Evans opts out, because he is better suited for a backup SG. And that would free up $2.5 mil or so.

if w lose JJ, then I would be okay with Mo in our SG rotation. But I would like to see us go after JJ Redick too.

Bobby

May 25th, 2010
4:10 pm

Its just now hitting me Woody is gone. A guy that did what few coaches in hawks history have done by having 3 straight playoff apperances.Remember those lucky pair of drawers that you hated to through away Man i hope those drawers wasn’t Woody………Grandad with a post at 2:31 am after midnite.Remember Viagra causes hearing lost.

Grandad

May 25th, 2010
4:22 pm

I MUS WRITE:

As much as I would hate to give up Josh,
I would do this trade as well. Howevever,
NBA trade machine didn’t allow it.
Adjusted:
*Chi. gets – Josh [alone]
*We get Noah + Hinrich / *works

I would do this also – doubt Chicago would?

Clever – if they would do it !!!

cp

May 25th, 2010
4:24 pm

Yea they did O’Brien and like with Stackhouse they chose not to. I like Reddick but I don’t know if the Hawks will be able to pay him. With not much under the cap the Hawks will have to find bargains once again. I think there will be a few talented young guys available who will not cost the team that much and will be able to contribute. We just have to see if Sund will be crafty enough to find those guys. I like Amir Johnson and Wafer. Haslem would be nice too but I doubt he wants to leave Miami. He would be that tough guy that we are sorely missing.

Grandad

May 25th, 2010
4:24 pm

I MUS WRITE – *Whoops forgot to include your trade proposal !!!

“I dont know if the numbers work but I would offer Josh/Bibby/24th pick
for
Noah/Heinrich”

northcyde

May 25th, 2010
4:44 pm

Jody . . . I’m not denying who made the call to draft Marvin. What I’m saying is that those national sportswriters and bloggers didn’t have a clue about this, until WE the fans started talking about it recently. Most of the hardcore fans have always known that Woody perferred Marvin over Paul, because Woody had reservations about Paul’s size.

I don’t believe a single word that those national writers say about us, unless I see it via the local writers or from some of you bloggers who know the situation in and out.

LOL . . these are the same people that, up until 2008, thought that Josh Smith played SF and Marvin played PF for us.

Grandad

May 25th, 2010
5:04 pm

Najeh:

Thanks so much for the link *[Battier / Article].
I didn’t get a chance to read it until this AM.
For a B-ball lover it was music to my ears;
as Chopin or `Wagner would be to a composer.
W/O going back , I reckon O’B had knowledge
of Morey’s love for SB as well. I knew, from reading
‘Simmons’, a bit about Morey & his “moneyball” approach.
In a way it pisses me off that a stat guy can
delineate knowledge w/o actually knowing the game
from the inside. But, he has discovered clues to the “secret”.
- vava –
needs to read this article, he will enjoy it immensely.
As I said last evening ‘Battier’ has been my favorite player
since ‘Duke’. He may surpass ‘Rodman’ as my all-time favorite.
“Guys that make their teammates better”
Good subject:
Who on the Hawks???
Honestly none readily jump into my mind – I’ll think on it.

i_am_soulstar

May 25th, 2010
5:16 pm

It’s time to give up on Marvin. It’s like sticking around with that girlfriend that keeps cheating on you, hoping she’ll change.

Grandad

May 25th, 2010
5:21 pm

northcyde + everone else [Jody] / put it to bed !

Marvin was considered the # 1 talent / choice in the draft that yr.
Mil. picked Bogut or we would have picked him. It was agreed by “all”
that if we picked a point guard – it was going to be D.Williams.
C.Paul had slipped because of the “crotch punch” & there was
‘Attitude’ or intangible questions [unfounded of course].
People [revisionists] forget all this. Marv was gonna be the
next KG. Vitale was the 1st one to criticize the Hawks for not
taking Paul. What does it matter – Knight & Woodson are gone.
A worse choice was Sheldon @ 5 rather than trade down to Houston
@ 10 which wanted to trade. Then we could have taken Rondo.
Quit hypothosizing about stuff that didnt happen & don’t matter
.anyway

Grandad

May 25th, 2010
5:23 pm

i_am_soulstar:

*bane – That’s a bad thing – right?

Ken Strickland

May 25th, 2010
5:41 pm

GRANDAD-now you’re starting to get scary. I honestly thought I’d get no response, or maybe a negative response, from someone that really didn’t know much about him. Then you tell me you have the same opinion about him that I have. Too me, he’d be the perfect backup to Horford. They’re both high energy, physical, athletic, aggressive, and they both run the floor very well.

TERRELL-I meant to indicate that CMaggette would be an option only if JJ didn’t resign. However, if the ASG would be willing to sign him as well, I’d go with it. Washington trading their #1 pick wouldn’t be the ideal situation for them, but they are in a precarious situation with GArenas. I don’t see them drafting Wall unless they can get rid of Arenas and his monstrous contract, which is doubtful.

I also don’t see them drafting Wall with Arenas still on their roster. If Arenas felt threatened by Crittenton, how do you think he’d feel about Wall? You never know, if they like the idea of having Smoove over anyone available in the draft, they just might be intrigued enough to make the deal happen, especially with them already having Arenas. Of course, if the deal has to involve a 3rd team, it might take another player to make it work.

You said you’d like to have Collison from New Orleans. Well, so would I, but I’m not certain Teague couldn’t duplicate his 12.1PPG, 5.7APG, 1SPG and 2.5RPG, if given the same consistent 27+MPG, along with support and encouragement from the sidelines. Since their salaries are virtually identical, I would, however, consider taking a long look at trading JSmith(10.8M) straight up for Okafor(10.798M).

If JJ doesn’t resign, and we can do a S&T with him, I’d go after CMaggette. A front line of Maggette, Okafor and Horford, along with Crawford and Teague in the back court would be solid. Our bench would be Zaza-C, Marvin-SF, Bibby-SG/PG, Morris-PF/C, draft pick, Evans-SG/SF, and FA.

Grandad

May 25th, 2010
6:04 pm

Ken Strickland:

“I know everything there is to know
about the greatest game ever invented”
Wilbur ‘Shooter’ Flatch
“Hoosiers”

That…..^…..would sound arrogant if I really thought it !
Good call on ‘Didier’.

Grandad

May 25th, 2010
6:07 pm

KS – Unless I’m mistaken, he’s unrestricted this summer.

I MUS WRITE

May 25th, 2010
6:15 pm

Northcyde- One dunk is a tiny sample size my man, That guy who dunked on Powe is long gone. I was really hoping for Marvin to become something special,but reality has set in. marvin gave us absolutely nothing this year and he is as timid as a school girl. No excuse for getting blocked 2-3 times a game. Shawn Kemp is somewhere laughing hiz azz off. Marvin Williams LMFAO- borderline scrub and no a coaching change wont help.
Compairing Marvin to Josh is like compairing My first car
(75 Buick Electra 225) to a Ferrari……. No Comparison

Grandad- Whass up witcha, It would be even better to send just josh for Heinrich/Noah….. Im a huge noah fan and theres nothing i want to see more than him and Horford terrorizing other teams- I would miss smoove but we would be better in the long run im sure.

The Truth- Siler is putting up respectable numbers over there i just hope the front office is keeping an eye on him. Seriously tho-Could he have been any worst than Cheeseburger Collins. Siler and Morris over collins and joe smith all day. Where is the leadership and outside shooting smith was supposed to bring to the team-I didnt see him hit many jumpers this year. Im willing to bet that he less than 25 for the season Which totally stinks .
In limited time Morris was okay,he showed some nice post moves and a soft touch around the rim -maybe the new coach can get him and Siler to play physical off the bench. GOON SQUAD

Also 2 years ago everybody went crzy when i mentioned trading Josh for Amare…………..Uhhhm lets here it -tell me How Josh is a better player than Amare again -other than shot blocking. 23/9 the numbers dont lie.

We need a vet pg as well Bibby was horrible this year. I wish we could trade him for maybe Kyle lowery or Raymond Felton.

northcyde

May 25th, 2010
6:21 pm

Why would anyone want to trade Smoove for Okafor? He was a worse statistical center than David Lee was last year.

I MUS WRITE

May 25th, 2010
6:24 pm

Nothcyde “As athletic as Smoove is, when is the last time you saw him catch a rebound in the air and dunk it? That’s not his game, even if it should be. For him to get to that next level as a PF, he has to play MUCH STRONGER, than what he plays currently”

Did you miss the Orlando game? put back dunk with .01 on the clock

terrell

May 25th, 2010
6:25 pm

CP, look who was coaching Wafer in Houston, and look who we had on the bench.

I MUS WRITE

May 25th, 2010
6:26 pm

Agreed Okafor is garbage and I want him far away from this team.

terrell

May 25th, 2010
6:30 pm

Ken, Josh Smith for Okafur? Be careful what you ask for. lol!

terrell

May 25th, 2010
6:32 pm

Imus, Felton is a FA.

Navigator

May 25th, 2010
6:37 pm

Good ole Marvin, got a high draft pick and lots of money based on one game, the NCAA Championship. Otherwise his career was very average, and of course the Hawks couldn’t wait to draft him just like Goose Givens (KY) who also had an outstanding championship (44 points), and the Hawks grabbed him to, but at least he had a career to back it up. As far as the Hawks making a run with J.J. versus not without him, forget it, they don’t make a run with this roster.

Ramon

May 25th, 2010
6:38 pm

Maggette is a great athlete and basketball player. My fear is that he’s cut from the same cloth as Vince Carter though. Majority of the gyms he walks in he will be the best athlete in there and have unlimited potential that he will never reach. I’ve never seen Maggette fight for a game. And he may have it in him, but I’m not sure I’d be willing to take that chance with that much left on his contract. I probably would try and see if there’s any chance Houston would take Chill’s rights and Zaza for Ariza, or maybe Bibby and Chill’s rights for Ariza, along with a draft pick.

Ramon

May 25th, 2010
6:41 pm

I MUS WRITE, I think they missed the Houston game also when Smoove had the buzzer beeter on a rebound put back. Or what about the AMAZING reverse putback he had against Miami on last season.

robdawg08

May 25th, 2010
6:50 pm

No benefit for JJ to sign and accept a trade unless it is to a contender and a contender ain’t giving up good players in return. Face it, Hawks are not going to be that good because of awful contracts and salary cap. But a player (JJ) that doesn’t need fans doesn’t deserve to be in the NBA anyway and especially not on the Hawks.

cp

May 25th, 2010
6:51 pm

terrell when you put it that way about Wafer then yea you have a great point lol.

Ramon

May 25th, 2010
6:51 pm

I wonder what it would take for the Hawks to acquire Rafer Alston.

bigdave

May 25th, 2010
7:03 pm

i suggested a play for Rafer Alston during the regular season.. ill pass now.

Grandad

May 25th, 2010
7:04 pm

I MUS WRITE:

I’m with you on Noah. He plays with unbridled passion.
Sounds like I’m writin’ one o’ them romance novels.

Lowry & Felton = unrestricted.

K-Dogg

May 25th, 2010
9:10 pm

Yeah good idea guys lets trade a top 15 player and 4 time all-star thats not 30 for Cory Mcnugget and a futre un-proven draft player and see if we can stay a 50 win team!!!! Yall must have gone to the billy Knight school of GM’s!!!!!!!!!! If we have to trade Joe we may as well do like the raptors are doign with Bosh and try to break a team. They asking the lakers for Gasol or Bynum and Shannon Brown but Hawks fans say Lou Dang and Corey Mcnugget go figure!!!

K-Dogg

May 25th, 2010
9:14 pm

knowledge Quest why do you want to trade Horford if you have yet to see him play his natural postion??? If you were playing Chris Paul at the 2 and he was still balling like Horford is i guess you would just trade him too if his natural postion is point guard!! Trade Big Al huh a guy thats a leader with a post game and Mid range game and Keep josh a guy who does not want to post, cant shot and does not give max effort when things dont go his way is 6′7 power forward and a knee injury away from being useless!!! (Not trying to Jinx the man but basketball players knees are the 1st to go) Good call Quest!!!!!

Ramon

May 25th, 2010
9:19 pm

Sorry, but I am tired of the debate of who to trade over Josh and Al (although I’d keep Josh). I’d be willing to trade ANYONE on the lineup right now except for those two!

K-Dogg

May 25th, 2010
9:21 pm

Why do yall hate Marvin so much! Billy Knight passed on CP3 not Marvin. To me he is the best role player on the squad! He kncoks down open shots defends and hit the boards and when you call his number can get to the free throw line. Like i always say go back last year when guys were out and he was getting 25 when his number was called. Yall quick to down a guy who get about 5 shots a game and never gets his number called the more i think about Woddy really was dumb b/c he had alot of talented guys that we never even tried to get involved on offense. If yall think Josh Childress goign to come back thats even funnier to me! Good look trying to tell a man who would rather go overseas to anotehr country and play for us that “Now Josh we need you” I will tell yall for him “Go **** yourself Rick Sund!!! We had two chances to keep him.

K-Dogg

May 25th, 2010
9:26 pm

To me ramon its a no brainer! Tell me this Ramon if Josh has a knee issue and it limits his ablity to be explosive what will he be able to do to help this team??????
Trade him while he has value if you lose him you dont lose much.

eastlaketb

May 25th, 2010
9:28 pm

Any chance that we could go Orlando back- up center?

K-Dogg

May 25th, 2010
9:31 pm

Im sure we could try but i dont think they trade him to us in teh divsion knowing that he could help make us better then them.

K-Dogg

May 25th, 2010
9:38 pm

Im outta here guys that fast but i have said it once and will say it until we do it we cant keep the same small front line and expect to beat the Lakers, Cavs and Magic if everything stays the same this summer! Everyone on our team that starts does have value and on the cool i would not trip if either one was moved(Altough i want to see Big Al play one year at the 4) but if yall think Al and Josh are going to get it done vs those teams even though over the last 3 years we like 4-35 vs those teams then yall truly dont have a clue and that goes for us fans and Hawks upper management!!!

Xavier Molina

May 25th, 2010
9:43 pm

We need a center. We need a seven footer at least. This is what we should do: get rid of Joe Johnson, try to get Chris Bosh to come, trade away Marvin and others who we don’t need, and draft a seven footer in the draft to have a post presence. The fact is that if we get Chris Bosh, he can’t be our best player because he was the best player on Toronto and you see how they did. We need someone to go along with him, then we’ll be good.

K-Dogg

May 25th, 2010
9:57 pm

Quest all that dont mean anythign if he playing out of postion man!!!!!!!

Ramon

May 25th, 2010
10:05 pm

K-dogg, I think Josh’s athleticism overshadows how many other great things that he’s able to do on the court. For one, in my mind Josh is one of the best passing PFs in the league. Also many of Josh’s defensive read has more to do with awareness than they do leaping ability. You say what if Josh has a knee injury, but that can be the case with anyone. Horford’s main mismatches come from when he’s more athletic than the opposition. There’s been many occasions where you can walk away from a game and know that Josh’s defense was the reason the Hawks won the game. But how many times have you watched a game and said ‘Al’s defense is the reason we’re winning this game’. Josh can affect the game in so many different areas, and then has the plays to make you more money at the ticket booth also. For the last 4 seasons, Josh has been the main marketed player for the Hawks. How many commercials of the Hawks have you seen that didn’t include Josh?

guesswhosthis

May 25th, 2010
10:20 pm

The Hawks should trade Josh Smith to Golden State for their first round draft pick and pick up Al-Farouq Aminu from Wake Forest. He can make up for the loss of Josh Smith’s athleticsm and still bring in fans with his ability to make exciting dunks but he will also bring in hard work and hustle, something that Josh Smith lacks at times. Then they can move Al Horford to Power Forward and have Al-Farouq Aminu play small forward. I also think this can elevate Jeff Teagues play because he already has some chemistry with Al-Farouq Aminu from playing at Wake Forest so it could really make his transition to starter more comfortable. Also, with the pick that the Hawks have at #24, they should take Elliot Williams who I think can become the next Dwyane Wade. This can make up for the loss of Joe Johnson who I think might make it a little harder for Jeff Teague to shine because he tends to hold on to the ball too long. If having Elliot Williams at shooting guard doesn’t work immediately, then they can always put Jamal Crawford in as the starter and bring him off the bench allowing him more time to grow and improve his game. So with that in mind, Rick Sund should do a sign and trade with Joe Johnson for a descent Center that can play good Defense and Hustle. Our lineup could look something like this:

PG- Jeff Teague Sub- Mike Bibby
SG- Elliot Williams Sub- Jamaal Crawford
SF- Al-Farouq Aminu Sub- Marvin Williams, Josh Childress
PF- Al Horford Sub- ?
C- Randolph Morris or possible other Candidate

I think the Hawks can be very competitive with that lineup along with a coach who knows how to use young players and their athleticsm and they will only get better as the season goes on. We can be even more exciting than the current team. Go on youtube and check out some of their highlights and tell me what you think about our possible future team.

A.J Price

May 25th, 2010
10:34 pm

Damn Guys. It’s ok, I talked to my boy Sherron Collins and he said he’d help y’all out instead, since i’m injured. Sorry.

Grandad

May 25th, 2010
10:49 pm

KQ – new one?

doc

May 25th, 2010
10:56 pm

rod josh sometimes gets cute ala smoove. when he plays all the yime with balls and does the smash thing he will be an all star. his smoove act was the crap about dissing milwaukee and maybe hiring the limo to make his exit and point on going to chi-town. it got our buttts beat in milwaukee is all i am saying.

i am on the bus first for josh. just the same i dont accept it when he cry babies like the worst ala the queen or doesnt shoe up strong to the hole for games sometimes. sorry it is what it is. i hope you can se it before it bites you on the ass like marvin did me.

Urban Meyer

May 25th, 2010
10:58 pm

Hawks are losers! Always have been and always will be!!!!

What?

May 25th, 2010
11:11 pm

“as his high flying, rim rattling days are behind him.”

^why are those days behiend him?

Buck Foston

May 25th, 2010
11:13 pm

Suns will win the Title.

Najeh Davenpoop

May 25th, 2010
11:17 pm

“Soft” is a subjective term that can mean many different things to many people, but if your definition considers Marvin one of the least soft players on the Hawks, it may be time to revise your definition. To me, “soft” and “timid” are more or less the same, and Marvin is as timid as they come.

If you are criticizing Josh for not driving hard to the hole, that has a lot more to do with his lack of handles than any alleged “softness”. Josh is emotionally unstable, not soft.

Najeh Davenpoop

May 25th, 2010
11:18 pm

Where would Goran Dragic be if the Hawks had drafted him?

What???

May 25th, 2010
11:25 pm

It’s official, Jason Flemming is a DumbA$$ whose never watched a Hawks basketball game in his life. Dude deseves to be smacked.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=16321

“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”. – Albert Einstien

Mike Woodson is an Insane Idiot. FU@$5K Jason Fleming

Rufus1

May 25th, 2010
11:36 pm

” Out of Town Stupid”
That is what Dan Berstein a Sports talk host in Chicago called people who think Deng or Hinrich are worth trading for…He said they are average at best.(Dan Patrick Show)

Deng..Can’t shoot the 3, unathletic and always hurt

Hinrich…Average shooter and a defensive liability at the SG.

Deng and Hinrich both make more the Marvin..
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9193

Loul Deng is the 2nd scoring option on a below average team…Marvin was the 6th on a good team…I will take Marvin over Deng for 5mil a year less.

An Adult

May 25th, 2010
11:36 pm

Gilley… what restraint… writing a few words before you claim first. You are not like the others who do this. Clearly, you must be at least a high school graduate. Congrats man, that’s just too much. It’s like winning a gold medal in the Olympics or maybe a Nobel Prize… wow. Your life is complete.

Najeh Davenpoop

May 26th, 2010
12:02 am

Some good stuff here.

JeJe

May 26th, 2010
12:53 am

Nash and Amare played 30 and 31 minutes.

And this is precisely why Woodson is a bad coach

LOL

Gentry >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Woody

Shawshank

May 26th, 2010
1:00 am

I want us to sign and trade JJ for DWade.
I know that sounds crazy but hear me out. JJ and MIami will not be thrilled but if neither lebron or bosh go to miami, I think ATL can offer wade the best supporting cast. Miami gets probably the best player they can get for wade if he makes up his mind that he wants to leave and JJ gets his max contract which based on how he played in the playoffs is no guarantee.
So what do you guys think? Does this even have a snowballs chance in hell of happening or am i just hawks homer dreaming in the offseason.

drmaryb

May 26th, 2010
1:04 am

NorthCyde

Co-Sign that 2:10 @.PM Post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We need a: Mahorn, Lambieer, Oakley Proto-Type in that paint! Problem is? The Commish – Stern has out-lawed the East-Coast defense from the ’80’s.

Them Pistons with Isaiah had – Bricks & Cain-Saws & Pepper – Spray & Tasers buried underneath that paint! If you come in the lane? They would peel it back & bash your brains in!

Stern out-lawed them tactics and put “Pink – Skirts” on the 4’s & 5’s! Now, that would be a Flagrant – 3!
& a 2 Game Suspension. Stern made the NBA like a NFL quarterback in a red-shirt @ training camp. (You Can’t Touch This! Ala: MC – Hammer!)

That used to be the DIFFERENCE between East Coast & West Coast! Not to mention the silly Hand-Check calls on the perimeter. Uuuggghhh! Pansy- Ball in full effect!

Playing tough is now an Art – Form!

The way it is now, you can only play TUFF in the play-offs. And even then it’s predicated upon who the REFS are & how many more TV Games they need to make money.
(I.E. revenue from commercials & ticket sales req’rd.) To promote the NBA propaganda.

Now, it takes a Super-Star to get to the FT – Lines! Gimmick calls – basically. That’s why I would never wager on a sports game! (See Donoghue – in prison)

Tell me that there is no corruption in sports & I got swamp land for sale in the dessert.

I MUS WRITE

May 26th, 2010
1:30 am

Kdogg-Its obvious you have’nt watched many hawks games this year. I dont understand your man crush on Marvin. He had maybe 6 good games out of 82 and this is your guy? Wow……… So basicly 13.5% of the games Marvin was respectable. Sorry but that doesnt cut it my friend.

After watching the game tonight I was wondering how Jared Dudley a second round pick is already more productive than Marvin.

Dragic is a player -had no idea he had game like that.

drmaryb

May 26th, 2010
1:42 am

Shawsahank?

D-Wade for Joe Johnson?
R U EFFIN’ me?

If U smoke crack? U are wack! If u don’t believe me? Ask Bobby & Whitney.
Pat Riley is in that front office & last time I checked, he’s drug-free. How is ot that. A 15 year old get’ s to have access to a computer without parental supervision?

This BLOG needs law enforcement to “Protect & Serve” the blog citizens.
We pay our taxes and we deserve better.

This BLOG is rated XXX. This is a Grown Folks conversation & Kids are not welcome.
My depends undergarment is full of pee & crap, I need a fresh diaper.

Please go away & post on My – Space!

sam'l

May 26th, 2010
2:51 am

Yes….It’s good to let us in on the nuts and bolts. Thanks MC.

But Deep Diver does a disservice to Sekou Smith. Sekou’s writing was always interesting and right to the point, written to the fan’s point of view…..and timely. There may have been technically better writers, Boston and LA come to mind, but their stuff is always highly slanted to feed the ego of their constituents. Sekou didn’t do that. He may have been the best sports writer in the country.

The Hawks are difficult to cover. This recent Woodson thing is an example. How could a writer look at the team, see glaring inconsistencies without writing about it…..game after game after game…..hear the same excuses game after game…without finally boring in on the central question……how come you’re not doing anything about it? Then, after broaching the question to the team or the coach, how could you expect to remain on good terms for any tidbits they might care to throw out?

Thanks to MC.. I think I get it…total disarray….discontent…..ineptitude….exactly the picture no one wanted…..but necessary to move on.

Sund better find a way to keep Joe….he better find a strategic genius to run this club…..his friends won’t cut it. Avery Johnson won’t cut it. When you lose hundreds of millions of dollars in a few years, paying a coach good money to right the ship more than makes up for itself.

MC…..you’re reporting on history (at least NBA history)…..perhaps the Death of a Franchise…….

sam'l

May 26th, 2010
2:58 am

Also, because I have nothing better to do…..I was going to mention the total irony of having the Hawks go 4-0 against Boston, Orlando go 4-0 against the Hawks and Boston go 4-0 against Orlando….but van Gundy (the vile toad) broke that pattern at the last minute.

After watching Dwight Howard throw a few more elbows and get away with it, I am convinced that I really wouldn’t want to win games that way……wouldn’t take that brand of play even if Hawks became the champs.

more irony……Ilgauskas took the easy (and squirrely) way out……and he got what he deserved…failure and the opportunity to be with a truly horrible team once Lebron cashes in.

Joe ain’t gonna be around unless Sund picks a real winner…….

vava74

May 26th, 2010
3:24 am

drmaryb,

the kid may be on crack for posting such an outrageously stupid possibility but you must be on good old fashioned amphetamines ’cause you are blazzing!!! :-)

drmaryb

May 26th, 2010
5:46 am

VaVa

I need some amphetamines to read this stuff!

If you can purse your lips & say – “Sign & Trade Joe for D-Wade?”
First of all the Hawks can’t do “ISH” about Mr. Johnson – He is an UFA!
But, if you wanna DREAM? Then DREAM big & say, “Sign & Trade Joe for The Black Mamba!

Why risk jail time & rob a bank for $50 bills when you can rob it for $100 bills?
Either way – your azz is going to jail!

These idiots need to understand one thing – Joe Johnson is NOT the property of the Hawks right now.
The only thing the Hawks can do is – “Tell him how is azz taste!”

We can only S & T players that are under contracts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

guesswhosthis

May 26th, 2010
5:50 am

trade josh smith to golden state for their draft pick and draft al-farouq aminu. this guy is a freak athlete like josh smith but is quicker and plays the smallforward position. he also plays more aggressive and hustles more. put him in the starting lineup and bench marvin. that will make jeff teague more comfortable since they both played at wake forest. then trade jj for a legit center so that al horford can move to power forward. also use our own draft pick on elliot williams who can start at shooting guard. he can become the next dwyane wade. we need to find a way to get those two players from the draft. al-farouq aminu and elliot williams can make this team even more exciting than it already is. if you don’t know who thay are go check them out on youtube.

drmaryb

May 26th, 2010
6:01 am

Guesswhothisis?

This is Yo Mamma!

Now, take out the trash, clean your room, clean the gutters, rake the yard, walk the damned dog, wipe your azz real good when you s h I t & take your azz to bed without supper!

This is a blog for the Grown & Sexy! No kids under 18 allowed! Damned it!

drmaryb

May 26th, 2010
6:04 am

Yawn – Roll Over & going back to sleep.

Grandad

May 26th, 2010
6:21 am

drmaryb & vava74 – Good mornin’ !

vava: I mentioned earlier that you would enjoy this article.
drmaryb – You too!

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/magazine/15Battier-t.html

terrell

May 26th, 2010
7:12 am

Wont be long before those old legs in Boston get tired and start giving Orlando’s shooters open looks. They should’ve took em out in 4 when they had the chance. Magic in 7.

terrell

May 26th, 2010
7:19 am

Imus, I mentioned Dragic a while back. I said Dragic, Dudley, and Lopez for Smoove, Bibby and our 1st and 2nd rd picks this year.
Dragic/JJ/Dudley/Horford/Lopez
Teague/Crawford/Marvin/Zaza/FA

O'Brien

May 26th, 2010
7:21 am

Najeh,

Early in his rookie season, Dragic looked lost out there. But his coach stuck with him, told him to be confident, and still found PT for him (even in the fourth). Plus he got to learn from Nash. If he was a free agent, he could start for the Hawks next season.

If Dragic was drafted by the Hawks, he would have been brought along slowly and not thrown to the wolves. And would not look like the player he is right now. (Or he might have been traded for a vet PG).

Another opening might be closing soon. According to Marc Stein, “The New Orleans Hornets made a formal offer Tuesday to Boston Celtics assistant coach Tom Thibodeau to fill their coaching vacancy, according to sources with knowledge of the talks.”

I wonder how soon before Sund names our new HC.

terrell

May 26th, 2010
7:22 am

Nash/Richardson/Hill/Smoove/Amare
Bibby/Barbosa / / /

Big Ray

May 26th, 2010
7:44 am

Sund won’t be rushed.

For the record (not that anybody really cares to keep one, lol), I’m “okay” with Casey, if he ends up being the guy.

I like the post by Sam’l , where he refers to Ilgauskus, who spurned us for the Cavs, who had released him. Poetic justice…

dap01

May 26th, 2010
7:53 am

Urban Meyer: Go to your therapy session. Go to another blog and “break down”

Navigator

May 26th, 2010
8:13 am

Hey folks, please don’t defend any draft capability the Hawks have. They passed on CP3 and drafted Paul Gasol only to trade him away in a multi-player swap, and he never played a minute. Now for all of you deep thinkers think about those two being on the Hawks.

Big Ray

May 26th, 2010
8:16 am

“Marvin was going to be the next KG”

Yeah. The fact that he was coming off the bench at UNC was definitely an indicator that this was a certainty. The fact that we have struggled at both the pg position and the 3 spot is due to the failures of the 2005 and 2006 drafts. I’d love to “put this to bed”, but that’s just it….this the bed that was made, and now we’re sleeping in it….STILL.

Victory lap

May 26th, 2010
8:18 am

terrell

May 26th, 2010
7:22 am

I think that team has a lot of dynamics and is capable of competing effectively for a while. Its one of the best fantasy teams Ive seen on this blog sight. Way to shed some light.

Sund wont be rushed because he hasn’t got a clue and is just groping in the dark with no clear direction or understanding. Hes hoping for something to bail his stupid azzzz out.

Does favors the college kid rate higher than Horford,(if you play defense that should not be hard to do).
Does he compare to Howard? Can the man play defense block/alter shots in the NBA and control the flow of traffic in the paint? If he can do that then it will allow an offense to be much more versatile,

No matter who Sund chooses it a moot point. It definitely wont be an upgrade from where we are at now. The only thing that can upgrade the hawks is an Improved roster starting with a significant improvement in the middle,

A new GM wont hurt either.

“changing labels doesnt affect the contents of the package” – Who’d have thought.

Good point

May 26th, 2010
8:20 am

A Howard and Horford comparison

There names begin with “H’, they are males.

End of comparison

Good point

May 26th, 2010
8:25 am

refers to Ilgauskus, who spurned us for the Cavs, who had released him. Poetic justice……Blah,blah blah;

We did not really pursue Ilgauskus, It was just a token offer to appease the fans who knew we would not go far with out a center. Ilgauskus knew it and did not want to waste his time. If he had it to do over he would.

Good point

May 26th, 2010
8:37 am

*Their names begin with”H”

Samuel

May 26th, 2010
8:46 am

All of the blame for the Hawks being dismantled by the Orlando Magic was placed on Woodson. Yes, they looked horrible. Sure, many times people wondered why certain moves weren’t made, or why the Hawks seemed to be so slow to make changes, to adapt to the Magic’s attack, but that doesn’t change what Woodson accomplished as a head coach.

In six seasons as the Hawks head coach the team improved every single season. From a low of 12 wins in 2004-05 to 53 wins in 2009-10, some of that credit has to be given to Woodson – the players didn’t do it on their own.

Could he have done some things differently? Sure, in retrospect that’s easy to say. He also isn’t going to say if he told his players what they were doing wrong against the Magic and they simply didn’t do it. The fact of the matter is this Hawks team went exactly as far as anyone expected them to. Everyone can agree they were a top-four team in the East, but a top-two? Outside of Atlanta you would be hard-pressed to find anyone who thought that.

The thing is, players know when they are outmatched. Woodson gets the blame for how the Hawks lost that series (and almost lost the previous one with the Bucks), but to suggest Woodson missed – as the head coach – the things media and fans pointed out as the reasons they lost is simply unfair. He knew what the Hawks’ shortcomings were, but knowing that and being able to do something about it are totally different things. The Hawks lost because they had simply gone as far as the roster could take them. And Woodson takes the fall for that, not the people who assembled the team.

Or, NBA gods forbid, management face reality and accept the fact the team went as far as it could and choose instead to get better, rather than blaming someone.

Ramon

May 26th, 2010
9:08 am

Big Ray, I understand what you’re saying about the 2005 and 2006 drafts. But with all due respect you can’t just say add Paul/Williams and Roy/Rondo to THIS team. Because if the Hawks would’ve drafted one of those four players in stead of Marvin/Sheldon, the Hawks probably would’ve at least one more game. Remember in 2007 if the Hawks grabbed the 4th pick instead of the 3rd pick, they would’ve walked away with NO picks. So Horford wouldn’t have been here, and this would’ve lead to the Hawks having to overpay some journeyman big to play down low. Or worse, it would’ve lead to Zaza starting.

Everyone states that BK messed up on those two drafts. But even if you include the mistakes that BK made, he still put together the framework for a team that has been to three straight playoff appearances, and two straight 2nd round appearances. From the time Sund has taken over to when BK was here the starting line up has not change. And I would venture to say Bibby mainly became a liability on the court THIS past season. He’s never had good defense, but the trade for Bibby was a good trade. And once again, would you guys have trusted Woody with Chris Paul or even Rondo? In Woody’s eyes Rondo was just another Ivey, except with a lottery pick. Think about how many teams are wishing they would’ve gotten Josh Smith. Or how badly the Blazers are wishing they would’ve received the #3 pick in 2007 and we would’ve received the #1 pick, so we would have injured Oden and they could have All Star Al. But regardless of the mistake at the end of the day the job was done.

Fundamentals

May 26th, 2010
9:12 am

Samuel,

I’ll buy into some of your love of Woodson. I supported him till the end, but you can’t argue the guy coached for home court advantage, he coached for the regular season record, he didn’t prepare his players for the playoffs. When used correctly I think we had great personnel, something went wrong early in terms of player development, which in the end led to a demise in team chemistry. They gave up, plain and simple.

Cleveland gave up.

Orlando gave up.

Boston ran out of gas, but should conquer.

Suns finally believe in their pieces. It’s a series.

Playoffs are fickle. A great deal depends on the most vital ingredient – chemistry & believing in your system. Our team chose to be selfish and ultimately got embarassed for it.

Woodson always tried to stand up and cover for his team, they rarely did that for him. He paid the price, now we have to wait to see how the kids respond.

Good luck Mike. Thank you for some great years of Hawks Basketball.

Fundamentals

May 26th, 2010
9:23 am

Ramon,

No one will forgive and forget on the drafts of years past. What’s new, we’ve never had tremendous draft luck. The BK years actually netted us players that we still use, that’s a plus. Not something I remember happening much in the 15-20 years prior?

We need to discuss how we move forward? Getting a coach to define philosophy is step one.

Next Joe can decide what he wants to do, hopefully early.

After that we fill our holes with the best available talent. We still need:

Strong defensive SG/SF who can shoot the 3.
Strong defender/rebounder who can spell Al.

What are our best prospects?

Ramon

May 26th, 2010
9:34 am

Fundamentals, I’m still a strong believer that Haywood and Ronnie Brewer will fit both of those needs. And if there was a way that we could shred salary of Bibby or someone else’s I’d be for it also. I still would initiate a call to San Antonio to see what’s the price for Parker. If they hang up the phone, who cares.

O'Brien

May 26th, 2010
9:37 am

Samuel,

I agree with you partially. I was never a woody fan, but his players quit on him. And they are to be blamed for that. As professionals, to lay down like they did was unacceptable.

But woody could have done many things differently. He could have played bibby Less, and played teague more.

He could have come up with an offensive game plan that Did not rely so much on ISOs. He could have come up with other defensive options when the switching was not working.

He could have utilized his bench better. He could have not played favorites. He could have made adjustments sooner.

Again, players should take some of the blame, and i hope rick sund tweaks our roster accordingly. but as the HC, he should have had them better prepared. And there were lots of things he could have done differently.

Fundamentals

May 26th, 2010
10:00 am

Brewer might be a candidate to investigate. Haywood doesn’t excite me as much, but I will grant he’s a big body that is available and might be best available.

I don’t see Parker going anywhere, but who knows. Seems to be a number of quality point guards around of late. I still say Teague has a chance to prove he’s special. I’ll see what the new coach thinks and maybe make a move a the All-Star break for support if needed. He looked so good all last summer, but never got a shot the rest of the year.

Fundamentals

May 26th, 2010
10:02 am

Who would like to see Morris get a better shot in a new coaching system? I thought he showed he was worth what we paid him, potentially more given the right fit.

I MUS WRITE

May 26th, 2010
10:29 am

Terrell- That trade would kill 3 birds with one stone- we get a respectable SF sending marvin to his rightful place -the bench,we get the Center we desperately need, and an upgrade at PG……. After last night Phoenix would have to be absolute idiots to make that trade.

Grandad-Good Read I have always liked Shane Battier,mostly because of his goofy personality and brilliant mind,but he really is a good player that gets ignored by the masses-im glad he’s getting some shine.

Drmaryb- Your 1:42 am post left me scratching my head-crack smoking??? dirty diapers??? Maybe the guy is new here and doesnt understand how trades and Free Agency Works. Y do we need police protection on the blog again? FYI we have a policeman that roams this blog quite often -his name is Big Ray…..Do u feel safer now?

O’brien- Sund seems to be taking his time and i hope its because he is looking for the right fit for our talent,but the options are dry’n up -I am gonna be so pissed if Avery johnson is our guy. He has a bad track record with players -I want no part of a guy who makes a future HOF’er (jason kidd) look shakey and out of place on the court when he has been playing at a high level for years.
Also Devin Harris had problems with him too,but the following year he goes to NJ and becomes an All Star………….

Mike is Back

May 26th, 2010
10:52 am

Fundamentals and Samuel, Woodson did okay…he was a man of integrity…that was his greatest strength. Sund said it write…he was rewarded for his loyalty,…he was given every opportunity to retain his job.

No need to feel sorry for him, like he got a raw deal…or sumin. AT LEASE NOW…he has position himself as a viable option for another organization. I read where Woody had generated some interest from some teams…I think he will end up with LBrown in some capacity.

As a fan, I’m grateful for his service…and looking forward to a change of philosophy in our approach to the game. With or without JJ…this team has enough talent to make to the playoff next season. I supported Woody too…That is why I don’t feel sorry for him…he was given a fair chance.

That darn Mark Bradley all but convinced me Casey is the best fit for the Hawks with his latest blog on Casey…I wonder if Sund got some salt in game. lol

I would still prefer AJ, if we could get him…but I would not be disappointed if its Casey…which we know is likelihood. I still have to wonder why other teams are not making a hard push at Casey…if he is such a hot commodity.

Rod from College Park

May 26th, 2010
11:03 am

doc,

Trust me I am right there with you on Josh. All of his problems stem between his ears, and I don’t know if that can be corrected. He lost me when he took that three pointer in the Milwaukee series. That’s when I finally came to the realization that he might not ever become the player I thought he could be. But for northcyde to say he is soft, and Marvin is not, makes him lose all credibility with me. That’s all I was saying.

I MUS WRITE

May 26th, 2010
11:04 am

For the love of god man stop it………..

Samuel- I know that in your eyes Woodson is in the same league as Phil Jackson and Red Aurbach, but its over man he’s gone forever. The team did improve every year,but so did the talent/ aquiring -JJ,Horford,Crwford,Bibby along with a developing Josh Smith gave us the ability to compete night in night out.

Its like working in an office building and the supervisor is below average but the team is performing at a high level. The workers bust their humps and really make the department shine,but at the award ceremony the supervisor gets a plaque for his competency and leadership.
Just because Woodson was the coach it doesnt mean he was the reason we improved every year.
Its time for a breath of fresh air- No More:

Switch everything D- Zaza guarding B Jennings or Bibby guarding D Howard
Ridiculing Players and Confidence Snatching
“We just were’nt ready to play tonight” Y the hell not?
Folded Arms with that puzzled look on his face
Rookies super glued to the bench

I wish him the best but his number was up………………….

Mike is Back

May 26th, 2010
11:19 am

I MUS WRITE, very funny…but on point. lol

Sautee

May 26th, 2010
11:20 am

Truth-serum said:

“With all the tweaking woodson did to give horford more offensive touches he still only improved about 1 basket a game and his rebounds were about the same.”

LOL at “all the tweaking that Woodson did” Like he actually DID give a sh!t about offense.

Here’s the TRUTH: Horfords FGA’s were up a whopping 1.6 per game. Big tweak, eh?

And still because he raised his shooting % from .525% to .551% he scored 14.2 points. In other words with a raise in attempts of 18.1% he raised his scoring 23.4%.

Imagine what he’ll do with a coach who knows how to use him.

ryan

May 26th, 2010
11:22 am

I want somebody from Russia to buy the Hawks !

Fundamentals

May 26th, 2010
11:31 am

Definitely looking forward to the change of pace a new coach will bring. We need something new to motivate this team. New leadership will mean a new coach to impress. Hopefully he’ll demand the best and play the best. No more babying folks who aren’t producing.

Casey seems to be Sund & some AJC’s choice. He has the demeanor the owners like.

Lil General has his ups and his downs? What do the players think? Do they respect him enough to hear his chatter or will they tune out? Same applies for Sam and Byron – too loud for ownership and some players? Would the players respond to that?

I still like the idea of Tyrone Corbin getting a look.

Any insight on exactly what Drew proposed for his new look/leadership of the team? He has some player support?

My wife won’t rest until I recommend Steve Smith – great mind, great personality, great demeanor, hawks experience…but no coaching experience. Neither did Doc, but you see what happened?

Has Sund called Doc to see if he’d like to come home? Like the other blogger said about Parker, all they can do is say no?

Sautee

May 26th, 2010
11:37 am

Samuel,

You said this: “The thing is, players know when they are outmatched.”

LOL, Sam, did the BUCKS know they were outmatched?

They sure didn’t play like it.

Woody’s showing against Skiles was his undoing. Can you even imagine what WE would have looked like in the playoffs without JJ and Horford? That’s the Bucks, who took us to seven games without Redd and Bogut. Seriously Sam, can you even imagine us winning road playoff games without JJ and Horford?

Woody was NOT a bad coach. He was a decent coach who was too stubborn to make timely adjustments. But he was totally unmasked in the MIL series.

I MUS WRITE

May 26th, 2010
11:38 am

Fundamentals-Your wife may be on to something-I think we should atleast interview Smitty and Corbin. Im sure corbin has learned alot under Sloan,can u imagine our players playing in that Utah system…..We would be alot better IMO

Ramon

May 26th, 2010
11:42 am

Fundamentals, I would offer Doc Rivers upto $6 mil a season on a 5 year contract to come and coach the Hawks if I was ASG. True Boston are winning now. But he has to look at that roster and know realistically this is about the last year in their window to compete. And the Hawks window is barely opening. If he could turn Perkins and Rondo into very good players, imagine what he could do with Josh, Al, and Teague (all three are better athletes then any one on the Celtics team). One thing about Rivers is that I think he is made up of the PATIENCE that it would take to actually teach this team and build something.

Fundamentals

May 26th, 2010
11:54 am

Doc may not want to come after the snub we gave him when he was available. I wanted him when he went to the Magic and the Celtics. He was our leader, our general, our captain and we just passed.

He did the dirtiest think any Hawks fans could think of. He made pals with Ainge in Boston and has taught us a lesson about coaching since.

Doc would be the coach to really ignite the fan base here, old and new. Could he hire Tree as one of his defensive specialists? How bout Smitty for a shooting coach?

K-Dogg

May 26th, 2010
12:21 pm

On the cool their are not many good coaches out their so we may have to take one of these Assistant coaches thats never coached before and give them a try or go with Byron Scott or Avery at least they both have won rings as players and could maybe get into the heads of our guys of what it takes to get their.

K-Dogg

May 26th, 2010
12:24 pm

Yeah i like Doc too but Mark Price as the shooting coach has worked!! As long as a coach can bring in guys to match up with the 3 teams that have owned us the past 3 years since we have beceom a legit team im cool!!! If the L stayed the same next year i could go to vegas and make alot of money off of these Hawks b/c i know who they can and cant beat!!

GeeMack

May 26th, 2010
12:57 pm

Fundamentals & I MUS WRITE

You guys make some good point concerning the coaching search. I thing more than anything the Hawks need a leader on the floor.

The most successful teams have a great head coach and a leader/coach on the floor. That’s a bigger gap than the coach itself.

This year nobody on the team team held players to a higher standard, Someone has to enforce the coaches wishes.

GeeMack

May 26th, 2010
1:03 pm

Ramon

Perk and Rando’s developement has nothing to do with Doc. It’s the result of playing with 3 surefire HOF’ers, and seeing how the prepare for games.

The Hawks wouldn’t get the same results out of lesser players. KG,& Ray Ray both had great work ethic before going to Boston. They were notorious for getting on teammates who didn’t prepare to be professional.

Doc’s biggest asset to the Celtics is casting the championship vision before the Big 3, and the Big 3 made sure the teammates followed suite.

Fundamentals

May 26th, 2010
1:09 pm

We definitely need leadership on the court to define and ensure what the coach asks is done right. More reason why KG has always been my favorite. He demands excellence, committment and hard play. What is his opinion of Casey? Has anyone asked? He coached KG for 20 games.

Ramon

May 26th, 2010
1:17 pm

Here’s a question, I wonder what would Dallas require to trade for Jason Kidd. I know that may not sound like a good idea, but what other veteran who’s been to the finals twice, and still playing at a high level, is available? I don’t remember the last team that Kidd went to that didn’t win more games after he got there.

Fundamentals

May 26th, 2010
1:23 pm

I’m not a fan of Kidd. He may have been to the finals, but so has Collins. He and Vince don’t have rings for a reason. We need a young talented leader. Is Horford our chance? He needs solid help in that department. Nobody really stepped up this year to help.

O'Brien

May 26th, 2010
1:28 pm

Ramon,

Jason Kidd did not play at a high level in the playoffs. In fact, Dallas fans were upset Carlisle didn’t give more PT to their rookie guard Barrera (sp?) in the playoffs.

Fundamentals,

I think Casey coached garnett for a season and a half in Minnesota. Casey’s record was 53-69. But he was 20-20 when they fired him halfway through his second season.

His replacement went 12-30 for the remainder of the season.

Ramon

May 26th, 2010
1:32 pm

Fundamentals, I think Josh tried to step up and lead a lot. Josh was the defensive leader on the court, he was the one letting other players know when they were out of position (even on offense) and encouraging other teammates.

Fundamentals

May 26th, 2010
1:41 pm

O’Brien – does that mean Casey was on the right track and got derailed? Better start than Woodson had here?

Ramon – I love Josh, but till he grows up we have no hope in him. He can lead and act right…if he wants to. Honestly he acts like an entitled teenager who never grew up. He wants to be an All-Star, but his performance over the season didn’t grant it. He digressed somewhat late. Can he put it together next year. I hope for that every day!

Big Ray

May 26th, 2010
1:51 pm

Ramon ,

I understand what you’re saying, and I’m going to drop it. It was pi$$ poor asset management. Even though Horford is a great player, whom I really like, drafting him is not enough of a consolation prize for pi$$ing away two top 5 lottery picks, two years in a row. Unless of course, you think Horford is an NBA top 15 player, or otherwise a franchise player.

Also, think about this. Let’s say we draft Marvin in 2005, but drafted either Rudy Gay or Brandon Roy in 2006. You then have the option of trading Marvin while his value is still extremely high, or you can move JJ to the SF position, which he is big enough to play. Or, you could trade the rights to such a player for another piece that fits better. No matter how you slice it you have far greater value to work with, which is what’s at the core of good asset management. Yes, you lose out on Horford, but who says it’s not like you couldn’t go out and get a decent big man through free agency or trade. People automatically assume that if we weren’t able to draft Horford, that the only bigs we would have on our roster are Zaza, Morris, etc. That’s just plain skewed conjecture.

Then there is this: If you draft Roy or Gay, are you as worried about haivng a marquee scorer if JJ leaves? No, because you’ve still got Roy or Gay, and you still have Josh Smith in your frontcourt. Instead, we are STILL wondering what will we ever do at the pg position, STILL staring at an underproductive Marvin Williams, and STILL wailing like a bunch of banshees about Joe possibly leaving.

Asset management. Yes, Billy did put the frame together for this team to be built on. Now, the cornerstone of that frame could very well be gone this summer. And when is the last time you saw somebody going to the bank for a loan on a new frame? Need something to actually build onto that frame. It’s not that we don’t have it, it’s that we are STILL missing essential pieces that we should NOT be missing.

But what the heck…here we are…will be interesting if JJ leaves.

Big Ray

May 26th, 2010
1:53 pm

Ramon ,

I agree on the Josh Smith defensive leader thing. I felt he stepped up there as well. Unfortunately, he still had his ruts where he would get totally unfocused. Even worse, he came unhinged in the playoffs and put up some miserable performances, including walking back up the court on defense in that one game, the other team scored, everybody looked like a jackass on the play.

Being that leader means staying focused all the time, and then taking personal blame (publicly, if need be) when you have a lapse. Josh isn’t quite there yet, and I hope he gets there damn soon.

K-Dogg

May 26th, 2010
2:03 pm

If horford this summer learns to go to his left in the post and moves to the 4 he will be a 20plus 10 guy in his sleep!!!

terrell

May 26th, 2010
2:09 pm

Ramon, did you just say Perkins was a VERY GOOD player? Please. We would’nt even know who he was, if he was on another team.

drmaryb

May 26th, 2010
2:20 pm

IMUS WRITE

I know who Blue-Ray is.

If the kid doesn’t know how trades work? Then he should stay in school and learn, or better yet ask questions.
Know that he has been schooled! Know he knows. Ignorance of the rules are no excuse when you land in front of the judge – so better to learn on a fantasy bog than in a real life situation.

The same goes for basketball players who leave school early, walk away from an opportunity of a LIFETIME to obtain a college degree & an education – then show up in the NBA with no FUNDAMENTAL skills whatsoever &
Ride the bench with long faces & long paychecks.

Crybabies all want the same thing! A warm bottle and their diaper changed!

I’m a long time season ticket holder who stayed in school, worked to perfect my craft & for my money?
I demand better than – less than 100%! Hey, I’m old school and I believe in TUFF love & accountability.
If you can’t take the Heat? Then get out of the kitchen. If you say something absurd more than once? You just might get called out on it. Welcome to the REAL world! Besides, it is disrespectful for kids to interject into grown folks conversation. That’s what is wrong with most kids today – no respect for rules and law…problem is they become adults with the same bad habits and have kids of their own & now we have generations of ignorance & it never stops!

If you read some posts or better yet – MC’s editorial first? You just might learn a few basics to help you with your posts. I’m not talking about varying opinions Just basic fundamental facts & reasonable statements!

I hope I helped the kid out. Otherwise, that’s what Myspace & Facebook is for.
There is a reason you can’t a driver’s license until age 16.

Whew….that tirade wore me out! LOL!

Fundamentals

May 26th, 2010
2:29 pm

Perkins and KG seem to be doing alot better on D than AL & Josh…just sayin. Seems to be an effective defender and rebounder for the C’s.

drmaryb

May 26th, 2010
2:39 pm

IMUS WRITE

BTW Blue-Ray’s role is not the Po-Po on the blog, he is the consummate perennial FAN on here. Law Enforcement is what Blue-Ray does as a career! He puts his LIFE on the line everday to Protect & Serve Citizenship. That my friend is REAL!

This blog is NOT real! This is for entertainment purposes ONLY! No on will DIE if I get fired-up on here! We’re just trying to KEEP it REAL on here – hopefully. The blog police is anybody on here who wants to impose their will on each other! You do it! It’s my turn now!

Peace IMUS….I gotta go pay some bills. BTW I simply love reading ALL your editorials on here. Always have!
Keep it up & keep holding us accountable for our statements!

lewis

May 26th, 2010
2:40 pm

Terrell,

Perkins is a great player. He was raw and overweight when he came into the league, i’ll admit that much. But he’s learned from the best and has become a gritty player. My favorite thing is his fearlessness. There’s no one in the league that Perkins is afraid of. Dude is a flat out beast who has no problems handling the likes of Shaq and Dwight. He’s excellent at using his fouls, and plays great while in foul trouble. He’s almost every bit as good of a defender as Dwight Howard, the difference is he doesn’t complain or dunk as much.

drmaryb

May 26th, 2010
2:43 pm

Typo on that 220pm tirade:

“Now that he has been schooled? Now he knows”. (Sorry – no time to proof-read). LOL!

jroc

May 26th, 2010
3:10 pm

Jason Fleming is correct who do the Hawks think they are.Woody was making much progress for this team and shouldn’t have been treated this way.Please fanatics stop with these retarded trade proposals, you guys have been climbing the NBA ladder for the past 4 years don’t try to overhaul the team because of a missed step this season.You made it to the second round of the playoffs just how many teams can say that.Sund do not touch the hawks core players of jj josh horford or crawford Man thats some dynamite talent just with these four guys.Build around these guys and maybe you can go a little farther please don’t listen to these wannabe GMs that ride the short bus to work. Woody, man you almost did the impossible in Atlanta… yeah you almost turned doo doo to gold.

drmaryb

May 26th, 2010
3:14 pm

Super – Stars!

Super – Stars aren’t Born they’re Made!

Mj was Great but he made himself Geater and became The Greatest Player of our time.
He was drafted at #5 and challenged himself to become better than that. Word has it that he worked in the gym until midnight most days. He put up 3,000 three pointers per day until he became a prolific three point threat. It took years to become a jump shooting specialist. Therefore he was Special!

Rumor has it that Mr. Johnson sleeps 14 hours per day. Perhaps he should 10 hours per day & spend the other 4 hours working on his jumper. He’s paid Max-Money so why not be the best Max Player possible?
There is no excuse for resting on your laurels. There is no excuse for rushing your shot and shooting bricks if, your being paid to make jump shots. I would like to see Joe join the All-Star 3 point shooting contest some times. I mean, Ray Allen and Dale Curry and many others compete in the specialist contests. I would like to see Joe represent the Hawks and do some extra stuff at the All-Star Games. I thunk it would be fun to see him do more and get possibly get some commercial endorsements. That would go a long way to make the Fans proud of him. I guess that is just not within his personality to do so.

I’m just sayin’ I would like see Joe assert himself more in his craft. We definitely Joe to re-sign here.

jroc

May 26th, 2010
3:21 pm

That sleep thing for 14 hours is something that is done by todays sport stars Steve Nash,Lebron and many others do it, something about healing the body.Yeah jj and josh needs a reality check and needs more desire maybe the new coach can light their fire.

bigdave

May 26th, 2010
3:29 pm

“If horford this summer learns to go to his left in the post and moves to the 4 he will be a 20plus 10 guy in his sleep!!!”

i dont know about in his sleep, but it will be a hell of a start..

drmaryb

May 26th, 2010
3:29 pm

Sorry for the TYPOS, but you can read between the mis-spellings. LOL!

Hawks Fan

May 26th, 2010
3:30 pm

I keep seeing and hearing of ways to try and keep Joe Johnson how about for once trying figure out a way we can lure a big time ball player such as Lebron or D Wade. I’d prefer lobster before I settle for tuna!!!

jroc

May 26th, 2010
3:40 pm

All this drama because a team went up against a team that had there number all year and got swept.Remember back in the day when the knicks,celtics and the pistons use to beat the crap out of mj and the bulls.Did the bulls panic no they went to the gym and worked harder till they became the top dogs.All these young hawks need to do is work harder in the gym and have jj and josh to step it up as vocal leaders on the team.Stars lead by example and the hawks need one of these guys mainly jj to become more of a leader.They found out they can handle the celtics they just forgot about the other top teams in the east.Watch out hawks the bobcats are nipping at your heals and the heat are on the verge to reload.Don’t try to fix your team just to find a way to match up with orlando and the rest of the nba fly right by you.

ant banks

May 26th, 2010
3:43 pm

i really hate this time of the year…some of you have some good posts and informative data. however, i get tired of the crazy ass trade proposals some of yall keep mentionin’, like trade marvin and bibby and a pick for ____________. hawks pick 24th and who wants bibby and marvin for anythin’?

FACTS!!! we ain’t gettin’ lebron, dwade, or bosh!!! no one wants bibby, marvin, or a 24th pick. dammmm

jroc

May 26th, 2010
4:02 pm

Take that to the bank son and cash it.Some of these hawks fans don’t appreciate what they got.Just yesterday you guys were the New Jersey Nets.Be Patient Children!!!

Fundamentals

May 26th, 2010
4:18 pm

Bibby might be useful in trades next year since he’ll be expiring. Marvin may very well flourish under a new coach & system. Hold him till the All-Star Break to see what he can show.

This summer will be key for our team. We need hard work in the gym. We need specialty coaches, we need a fire. A new coach can set the philosophical foundation and begin the process. We’ll see who Sund chooses.

Other than that what is the status of Chills? Will he come back with the Greek economy faltering? Has he developed? From what I have seen no?

Also what of Gladyr? Will he be in camp? What other prospects will arrive in camp this summer? Stack could’ve been useful last summer. Instead we took Hunter/Mario. I would contend that Stack taught us a lesson in the playoffs.

Use the summer and season to develop. Season starts next April.

terrell

May 26th, 2010
4:38 pm

Fundamentals, Josh and Al werre switching all the time. They never played Howard straight up.

terrell

May 26th, 2010
4:41 pm

Mary B. MJ was drafted at #5? Really?

K-Dogg

May 26th, 2010
4:45 pm

Quest dog i dont even think you have any idea who the Hawks are are see any games unless they come on TNT or espn!! You swinging from Josh sacks is redickuless!!! Come on man he a grown man and dont want you im sure dog. Yeah he blocks alot of shots on the week side but alot of players in the L do that!! If he leaves i know you will be at home playing russian roulette like the cat did earlier this week but life goes on dog get over it. I know local players younger then you like Josh, Dwight and Randoplh; you look up too(which is odd) but if your home town team trades them trust me they will be better if Mr i cant shoot or dribble is long gone!!

Fundamentals

May 26th, 2010
4:48 pm

Terrell,

Do you think either has the strength to take Howard straight up? Horford has tried for 3 years. Switch or no switch, he isn’t that strong. Perk has bulk and height. It helps.

Maybe when our DPOY steps up and shuts someone like Dwight, Lebron, Kobe, D Wade ect down then we can talk about Josh. Joe got stuck guarding the tough assignments. Josh floated around looking for blocks most nights. I know he has potential for DPOY, he just hasn’t consistenly shown anything. Still too young, raw and volatile.

It also took MJ about 7 years to perfect his team. Maybe we’re entering our 7th year with this group, but where’s Michael?

jerry_west

May 26th, 2010
4:58 pm

With or without JJ, all our core young players Josh, Al, Marv, Teague and Chillz will increase there value by the end of this year. Only injuries could stop that. Absolutely no reason to sell low.

Bibby+Craw’s values can only go down.

honest_abe

May 26th, 2010
5:13 pm

drmaryb: as you “bust” on all these other bloggers for being immature, you forgetting to see that you write like an uneducated wannabe lil kim on crack. whatever you say is mind numbingly annoying. i would just skip what you write but you do it so frequently its kinda hard.

sam: still defending woody. sad buddy sad. i guess you just prove the saying that “if i put his brain in a nat’s butt, it would fly backwards”

no need to blow this team up. hire ty corbin. resign jj. trade smoove for parker (if they’ll take him) .. and go look for a robin lopez/kendrick perkins clone. and no i’m not saying lopez is as good as perkins but they both play with alot of energy on the defensive end and they both have some size. find that and the hawks are a legitimate threat in the east. without…….. well hell they just won 50 with woody leading the way.

Ramon

May 26th, 2010
5:30 pm

Fundamentals, 2 years ago when KG was healthy, Josh did shut him down in the first round of the playoffs. But with the switching defense, and also the matador defense that Bibby and Crawford played, Josh never got a chance to truly guard someone one on one for majority of the game. Josh was unable to full commit to defending one person because he had to be alert to help defense. For the last four seasons, Josh has been just about the only help defense strategy.

Rod from College Park

May 26th, 2010
5:31 pm

K-Dogg,

“Yeah he blocks alot of shots on the week side but alot of players in the L do that!!”

Statements like this are what make people not take anything you say seroiusly. Josh not only blocks shots from the weak side, but he blocks them form the strong side, behind and in front of him. Actually a lot of players in the league don’t do that. That is one of the reasons why he was second in the voting for DPOY, and one of the youngest players in league history to have 1,000 blocks in his career. Making what he has accomplished faster than more than 95% of guys who have ever played the game of basketball, sound regular is just plain being a hater.

Ramon

May 26th, 2010
5:43 pm

Rod, THANK YOU! These people make it seems like Josh isn’t breaking records with his blocks. And then on top of it, he’s at the top of the league in steals. If there was a statistic for drawing offensive fouls, he’d be there also.

Ramon

May 26th, 2010
5:46 pm

Josh leaving the team immediately causes the points given up to go up by 4-8 ppg. Especially if you’re trading Josh and keeping Bibby, Marvin, and Crawford. I’d find it hard to trade any one of my top three defensive players, especially if those same three players are the three best players on the team. As I’ve said, consistent playoff teams NEVER trade their best three players.

Ramon

May 26th, 2010
5:58 pm

Its funny how in the offseason (for the Hawks) 2-3 days seem like an eternity when nothing has happened. lol…

mark wilson

May 26th, 2010
6:06 pm

You have to take a chance on changing this roster to get better. If you stand pat with a roster that crumbles in the playoffs, you will get more of the same. a 50 win season, followed by an ambarasing playoff run. You absolutely cannot keep this team together. Trade Josh Smith and Marvin Williams to Chicago for Joakim Noah. trade joe johnson for a first round pick (even if it is a pick for next year), and a mid level exception. This would be a s and t of course. Try to dump off Pachulia, and Bibby on anyone stupid enough to take them. The starting lineup would consist of Teague, Crawford, Childress, Horford, Noah. Sign John Salmons. Salmons and Crawford are interchangeable. either could start. Rebuild the bench through the draft. We would have plenty of draft picks to do this.

drmaryb

May 26th, 2010
6:08 pm

Honest-Abe

Get your “scroll – On”

That’s what I do, but some people post under multiple names & sometimes I get caught reading garbage.
I love reading the really good ICON bloggers & they know who they are. I own three offices so, just don’t have enough time to read everything. But, I really appreciate all the research artists. It saves me time from doing that & I love seeing all the stats & facts and stuff. (Very Educational)

I usually blog on my off days. BTW where have you been, I haven’t seen you in a while?
I love your posts. I’m just cracking – up on here and having fun. Its nice to get away from World – Issues & bill paying. I love this blog – it’s just entertainment man, its not that serious – I mean really?

I MUS WRITE

May 26th, 2010
6:20 pm

Drmaryb:
I throw jabs at Ray all the time- thats just what i do,but i wasnt disrepecting the mans profession. He does a job that I could never ever do. Im a Gulf War Vet and I do know what its like …..(up close and personal)……. to put your life in harms way on a daily basis.

As far as the guys leaving college early for the NBA- I cant blame them If I had that chance I would do it a minute. What other job can you get as a 19 year old that gaurantees you financial stability for the rest of your life? You can always go back and get your degree,you cant always play in the NBA….Besides alot of guys go back and finish school V.Carter,Jamison,Shaq etc……
Also alot of families really need the help. What if that player had the talent to play pro ball but suffered a career ending injury while playing for free in college. If it were up to me I would eliminate the age rule all together,its really sending the wrong message IMO. U can go defend the country at 18 but you cant play a childs game at the highest level even though have the talent to do so……..
Even if the guy only plays for a few season, 6 million plus is probably more than he’ll ever see sitting in a cubical going through the motions on a daily basis.

I MUS WRITE

May 26th, 2010
6:29 pm

“Get your scroll on” LoL…………..

Najeh Davenpoop

May 26th, 2010
6:34 pm

“As I’ve said, consistent playoff teams NEVER trade their best three players.”

I’d say, more accurately, playoff teams never trade one of their three best players unless they are receiving a guy who would also be one of their three best players.

When Boston traded Al Jefferson for Kevin Garnett, Jefferson was one of their three best — but so was Garnett, so it made the trade worthwhile for Boston.

If people can actually come up with a trade idea involving Smoove that brings back a guy who will provide as much of an impact as Smoove, I am all for it. The idea of trading him for Noah is the closest I’ve seen to one that would maintain the Hawks at their current level or improve them (since Noah can play center and allow Horford to play PF, where I think he could score 20 points per game). The vast majority of the other ideas posted on here — including trading him for Bosh, who is no more of a center than Horford — would only make the Hawks worse.

drmaryb

May 26th, 2010
6:42 pm

Honest-Abe

Thank God you’re not the GM. I like your suggestion on the Bigs Perkins/Lopez et.al.
But, lest really be honest – trade Smoove for Parker? Nah Man, no way. I love Parker but let’s try to do that & keep Smoove. Smoove has not reached his upside – no where near, let’s be more patient with him.

Ty Corbin? Why gamble there? I have never seen him as a Head Coach, so, too risky. Maybe we should have done that when we got Mr. Woodson (to rebuild this team). But, hey we are close to advancing out of the 2nd round, I would like to see a proven HC with some success. But, if we do end up w/a project at Coach , then I like Thibbedeau.

I’m just sayin’

What???

May 26th, 2010
7:08 pm

Jason Fleming took the easy way out by blaming management after getting grilled:

“Re: Woodson – I never said he was a perfect or even necessarily all that great of a coach, but the fact of the matter is his teams improved every season with a very flawed roster. The Hawks are a solid team that went exactly as far as anyone expected – is it the coach’s fault they faltered when everyone thought they would? This is the same coach of the same team who led them to greatly exceed expectations in that first-round series against the Celtics a couple years back. Did the coach regress since then? What has held the Hawks back is not coaching, it’s management. They desperately wanted to keep Marvin Williams when they didn’t really have a role for him. They paid Mike Bibby last summer just to maintain the status quo, when his best days are behind him. They created a roster where your choices at center are Zaza or playing Horford out of his ideal position. These are things that lead to a team performing exactly to expectations. Woodson may have contributed to that, but the real point here is Woodson is taking all of the blame when it’s not all his fault.”

I mean he makes some good points. Gotta get rid of mike Bibby, and We def, wont win anything with zaza unlesshe’s like a 3rd string backup (I mean, he got out hustled by Dan freaking Gadzuric). Management (sund) tried to keep the status quo which was wrong. But that doesn’t change the fact that Mike Woodson can’t coach, period. His def was actually nice but he refused to change or tweak it for different teams, and the switching, ugh. Letsn not even get started on his offense.

Najeh Davenpoop

May 26th, 2010
7:42 pm

What??? @ 7:08 pm, exactly.

Woody wasn’t the only problem on this team by any stretch of the imagination. He was just one of the most significant ones and arguably the most significant one. Just because he’s gone doesn’t mean nothing else needs to be done, but just because other things need to be done doesn’t mean he shouldn’t have been fired.

Jeff D.

May 26th, 2010
7:45 pm

Deal Joe and really shape this team into an UP-TEMPO, slashing and cutting offensive team. Upgrade the tugboat to a speedboat. No more hanging on to the ball and standing around!

drmaryb

May 26th, 2010
7:47 pm

I MUS WRITE

OK, that’s an excellent point re: leaving school early & returning later. I do remember the PF from
GA Tech. Aaaawww man what was his name. He was projected as a Lottery pick, but returned for his senior year and blew out his knee. Ended up never getting drafted. Aaaawww, help me out here?

This was after the Kenny, Brian. & D-Scott era! I think he played before Marbury was one & done?
Anyway, excellent point. I like the analogy of going to war @ 18 but can’t play ball @ 18.
That is terrible, because Golf & Tennis has no restrictions on going pro either.

Mmmmmh! Who made that rule & why? Is it Stern? I did understand, however the similar rule in football though, due to the physical-ity of the sport itself.

BTW thank you for your service! What an accomplishment. Really glad you returned home hopefully in one piece. Later!

Ramon

May 26th, 2010
8:05 pm

Najeh, I agree with being willing to trade Smoove for someone better than him. However, I wouldn’t trade him for Noah. Smoove is capable of giving you 20 ppg in a structured offense. I think Smoove and Horford would be more productive than Horford and Noah. Smoove and Horford could average 39 ppg and 20 rpg, as opposed to Noah and Horford have the possibility of averaging 33 ppg and 21 rpg. So to me it still wouldn’t be better production. And for the record Noah had more problems with Dwight Howard than Horford did.

Jeff D.

May 26th, 2010
8:13 pm

IF the Hawks trade Josh, all I would expect in return is a guy of equal talent, a much higher bball IQ and some maturity. I think Josh was a real buzz killer for the Hawks.

drmaryb

May 26th, 2010
8:26 pm

JROC

You Hot Man! You Hot! Great stuff, I really enjoyed your last 3 posts!
Co-Sign all that!

Terrell

Yeah Man, MJ was drafted at #5. (I’m pretty sure – but correct me If I’m wrong)
Portland had the #1 Pick, I think they took Sam Bowie! (Who was injury proned)! Portland must be cursed, because Greg Oden has got to be De Ja Vu! It must be a re-occurring nightmare to them.

But, hey 4 teams passed on MJ! The Bulls may have been lucky too! Who knew MJ would be so great?
I give the credit to his Mom & Dad though! MJ has an un-matchable work ethic. He willed himself to be so Great! A lot of hard work!

Yeah JROC, I also heard that LeBron sleeps a lot too! Like 14 hrs/day. I didn’t know about Steve Nash!
I guess MJ never slept then? He once said, when all the other players were chillin’ he was in the gym Killin’ Em!

What an amazing Man!

Ramon

May 26th, 2010
8:27 pm

Drmaryb, MJ was drafted #3

Time

May 26th, 2010
8:35 pm

HIRE BILL LAIMBEER!!!!!!!!!

Najeh Davenpoop

May 26th, 2010
8:43 pm

About the age limit — nobody complains when baseball players go pro straight out of high school, or European basketball players and soccer players and hockey players go pro at age 15, or tennis players and golfers go pro before their 16th birthday, but somehow basketball players are not mentally mature enough to go pro at age 18.

I can understand the NBA’s rationale behind it — forcing players to play an extra year after high school gives the many incompetent NBA GMs more film to study and makes picking an undeserving player too high less likely — but to be honest, I think a lot of the public perception against prep-to-pro NBA players is racially motivated.

drmaryb

May 26th, 2010
8:54 pm

Ramon

Thank You for the correction! MJ was drafted #3. Looking back, I’m sure 2 teams were kicking themselves!
How do you measure a Man’s heart! You can’t! I think MJ even surprised himself!

Honest_Abe?

Does the name: James Forrest ring a bell? Isn’t he the projected Lottery Pick from GA -Tech who rwturned to school for his Senior year & Blew up his knee? And was never drafted? Still, why didn’t he re-hab and try out for a team as a walk-on??? What ever happened to that guy anyways?

drmaryb

May 26th, 2010
9:07 pm

Is it really true that DeLonte was sleeping with leBron’s Mother?
If so, that’s awful character. & why isn’t he being roasted for that?
Didn’t he join the team on the stage when LeBron received the MVP award?
And, will he be traded for behavior detrimental to the team?
Isn’t there a “Man – Law” against doing that?

If its NOT true, and if he is a PG – would you like to see him in a Hawks UNI if he’s traded?
I really don’t like all those. TATOO’s though.

Matt Barnes is balling tonight! He’s so handsome – but why so many TATOO’s? Its very distracting to look at. How can anyone take you seriously with so many TaToo’s all over the neck? What’s next? The Face? Uugghh!

drmaryb

May 26th, 2010
9:12 pm

Najeh

I was tinking the EXACT same thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What other rationale could there be?

Sautee

May 26th, 2010
9:23 pm

Najeh,

“……but to be honest, I think a lot of the public perception against prep-to-pro NBA players is racially motivated.”

This 60 year old white guy heartily agrees.

terrell

May 26th, 2010
9:41 pm

drmaryb

May 26th, 2010
10:24 pm

WOW!

David Stern should be ashamed of himself! I thought Donoghue was locked up & banned? B
But THUGS don’t die – they multiply!

Kendrick Perkins was rail-roaded tonight. 2 Phantom Technicals. I guess the NBA does have a propoganda – driven agenda to extend these series!

“It’s the ECONOMY – stupid!”

drmaryb

May 26th, 2010
10:28 pm

Where is Rondo?

He has NOT controlled the tempo of the last two games.

ant banks

May 26th, 2010
10:39 pm

DRMARY B,

maybe paul pierce is sleepin’ wit’ rondo’s mother. lol

ant banks

May 26th, 2010
10:41 pm

oh well…the hornets have offered the job to thibideau. philly has gotten their man. and the hawks? tick…tick…tick…tick…tick…pull the trigga for once without waitin’ til no one is left. dam i hate SLOW HAND SUND’S style

drmaryb

May 26th, 2010
10:51 pm

Dwight Howard

Is elbowing people like he is Dikembe Mutombo! Where are his Flagrant 2 technicals?
These games are RIGGED man!

He has elbowed Paul & NOW? Big-Baby! He should be ejected man!

That is just wronge!

I hope they reverse both technicals on Perkins!

This is the Play Offs man! Let these guys PLAY!

drmaryb

May 26th, 2010
10:54 pm

WOW!

Rondo’s IMPACT has completely disappeared!

drmaryb

May 26th, 2010
10:57 pm

Magic on point tonite.

drmaryb

May 26th, 2010
10:59 pm

Sautee

Preach that truth – Brotha!

ASJacket

May 26th, 2010
11:16 pm

Shelden with the pt!

doc

May 26th, 2010
11:20 pm

najeh regarding high school to pro ….. to be frank i think it is the players within the union are just as responsible. they wanted it as much as anything that could be said to be racially instigated. it allows vets one more year on rosters. what was happening was the high schoolers were taking spots from vets as teams made poor decisions on long shots, if i remember correctly. it affected the pocketbook of union members was one reason why the players agreed to it as part of its last cba.

drmaryb

May 26th, 2010
11:22 pm

Ants in your pants!

Co-Sign that!

I told Blue-Ray this past weekend, in ref to his comment, “we don’t need a Coach in the Off-Season?”
That, if we wait too long? We are gonna end up with left – overs!

Unless, Sund has his bird in the hand? We need to pull a trigger NOW!

Maybe, he does not want a rookie coach. And I am OK with that – really.
We need a Proven veteran on the sidelines to coach this veteran team.
Mr. Johnson has already declared he will NOT go to a Re- Building situation & the Hawks do NOT need to start over IMO!

I say, let’s go ahead & try to lock up Mr. Avery Johnson with his .730 winning percentage & if he doesn’t get us past RD – 2? Well, at least we didn’t gamble with an unknown.

Looks like the Celtics age is catching up with them now. But, I don’t see them losing 4 games in a row, unless that’s what Stern & his Refs want.

Again, these games are definitely RIGGED!

If Perkins two phantom technicals are NOT rescinded? Then, that will be proof – positive.

But, honestly? I don’t see the Celtics losing 4 games in a row – unless all the concussions to
Big-Baby & Marquis are moderate to severe & Perkins is suspended the next game for acquiring 7 techs in the Play – Offs. If so, the Celtics are decimated with injuries and are at the end of the road.

doc

May 26th, 2010
11:22 pm

btw i for one am not in agreement with it and applauded brandon when he went euro instead of pretending to go to college. the rule was to protect teams from themselves as they threw money at young players poorly scouted.

drmaryb

May 26th, 2010
11:30 pm

Ants in your Pants!

LOL! You’re crazy man! You know Paul ain’t doing that boy’s Mamma!

drmaryb

May 26th, 2010
11:32 pm

Celtics look very old these last two games.

Maybe, That’s All Folks! Looney Tunes Inc.

Jim Burn is Roaming

May 26th, 2010
11:35 pm

drmaryb

May 26th, 2010
11:35 pm

WOW!

After this series – The Hawks NEVER had a chance!

Damn, what are we gonna do now? Joe may want go to Orlando – unless they stay Pat.

drmaryb

May 26th, 2010
11:38 pm

If Magic advance?

I don’t know if the Lakers can beat this team?

We might have the Trophy in the EAST…….that would be Great!

Jim Burn is Roaming

May 26th, 2010
11:43 pm

drmaryb

May 26th, 2010
11:51 pm

I loved Doc’s demeanor in the post game presser!

The consummate professional. Extremely intelligent comments.

PG’s make great coaches. With Thibedeau off the market? I don’t like the thought of a rookie coach.
I’m really thinking we should lock up Avery now, if nothing else for the respect factor.
I just wish he could get a synthesizer for his voice. LOL!

Great Comeback for SVG! Kudos to him! KG disappeared too!
No Tempo at all for the Celtics & IDK why?

Jim Burn is Roaming

May 26th, 2010
11:53 pm

drmaryb

May 26th, 2010
11:58 pm

Doc

1120 POST:

I forgot about that, you are EXACTLY right! That is an extremely logical rationale.
Kudos & Co-Sign that!

drmaryb

May 27th, 2010
12:07 am

Doc

That’s called “Player – Haters”. The old dudes rallied for that one-last paycheck!
(See Joe Smith)

Jim Burn is Roaming

May 27th, 2010
12:16 am

Jim Burn is Roaming

May 27th, 2010
12:25 am

Jim Burn is Roaming

May 27th, 2010
12:57 am

drmaryb

May 27th, 2010
1:02 am

MC
Doesn’t Kendrick remind you of J-Smoove – Crying @ every single foul called?
Way too emotional. Squash that & be a like more Joe Johnson & just make the NEXT play!

Kendrick should NOT have put his team in this situation of 7 technicals to possibly be suspended
One game. His emotional instability is hurting his team. He should be past that.

Josh should look at that as an example of hoe NOT to be. Perkins is a Champion – why is he regressing to being a cry-baby? Esp. When the Celtics are on the Verge of a Nervous Breakdown?

Jim Burn is Roaming

May 27th, 2010
1:12 am

Clyde

May 27th, 2010
1:46 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqZxQuDadyU

Its gonna be a long summer for Hawks fans. Our owners are broke and none of the free agents wants to play for us. Hopefully this will get us through it.

Clyde

May 27th, 2010
1:51 am

Kevin Willis > Horford

vava74

May 27th, 2010
4:00 am

Red Alert Red Alert!

We have a Tim Donaghy Code 5 situation developing… It’s open season for Howard’s elbows to operate. Who’s next for a cuncussion and who’s next for a double technical?

I say that Rasheed Wallace will last only 15 minutes during game 6…

Nate ArchiBALL

May 27th, 2010
5:43 am

In case you haven’t noticed, the Celtics are whiners. Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, Kendrick Perkins, Rajon Rondo and Rasheed Wallace.are constantly complaining about calls. It’s part of Doc’s (Celtic) philosophy to intimidate the refs. Doc rarely says anything to his players about complaining to the refs..

During the regular season, the Celtics had 4 players in the top 50 list of technical fouls committed.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/sortableStats?league=NBA&table=fouls&stat=technicalFouls&dir=descending&low=1&high=50&showPlayers=min&position=all&seasonState=regular

Playoff stats: http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/sortableStats?league=NBA&table=fouls&stat=technicalFouls&dir=descending&low=1&high=50&showPlayers=min&position=all&seasonState=playoffs

Ever notice the amount of complaining by Kobe Bryant or Lebron James?

Complaining to the refs isn’t something Josh Smith invented.

Booyah

May 27th, 2010
7:46 am

Did this guy quit? Why can’t this paper keep a blog up?

drmaryb

May 27th, 2010
8:09 am

Wade

Dwayne said in re: to his next team that LOYALTY MATTERS!

And, Chicago does not have it. After the way they treated MJ? I must vehemently agree.
Wade said the Heat does have it (Loyalty). ESPN reported that Wade, LeBron & Joe Johnson will get together to discuss their FA statuses before any decisions are made.

Very interesting – A meeting of the minds? Sounds like three bosses getting together to assess the Turf War. LOL! For the 1st time I feel as though there is a good chance Joe may walk. I don’t see him convincing those guys to come here. Maybe they all end up in Miami? Mmmmmhh…..

drmaryb

May 27th, 2010
8:20 am

MC

Any updates on the coaching search? Bradley is over there making up stuff. You hear anything solid behind the scenes & off the record? I’m starting to get a real bad feeling about all this teams holes

Ken Strickland

May 27th, 2010
10:40 am

WHAT-you referenced the playoff series with Boston as an example of Woodson’s coaching ability. Well, if you can remember, both Woodson and the Hawks were going nowhere fast prior to the Bibby trade. There was no way we were going to make the playoffs the way we were playing. It was only after the Bibby trade, which was former GM BKnight’s doing, not Woodson’s, that we went on our successful playoff run and took Boston to a 7gm series. That surge and playoff run wasn’t caused by anything Woodson did differently.

It was caused by the acquisition of a much needed player, and his overall impact on the team. As far as coaching is concerned, Woodson did absolutely nothing different to contribute to the teams success that yr, other than start Bibby. When you start out with only 13 wins, which is only 4 more wins than the NBA record for fewest wins in a season, and you add quality talent each yr, why wouldn’t you expect an annual increase in wins.

If Woodson had actually had the dramatic influence on the teams development that some of you insist on trying to infer, we would have certainly seen a more drastic increase in wins during at least one of his 6yrs. The annual infusion of talent each yr, and the development and maturity of that talent, would certainly explain the rather modest annual increases.

This yr, we went from 47 to 53 wins. Would you say that increase was due to something Woodson did that made the difference, and if you feel that way please tell me exactly what he did. Or, would you say it was due to GM RSund’s acquisition of SMOY JCrawford, who’s play definitely contributed to us directly winning several gms this yr? Do you think Woodson and the team would have had a 6 gm increase over the previous yr without JCrawford? What did Woodson do at anytime during the season to stop the OFF regression of Bibby and Marvin?

At this point, we’re a better team without Woodson.

terrell

May 27th, 2010
11:46 am

Give it up Ken. It’s like trying to tell the an atheist to go to a baptist church. Aint gonna happen. Some of these clowns will never stop riding the old stubborn one’s jockstrap. It’s like they always say, “stupid is as stupid does”.

Ken Strickland

May 27th, 2010
3:45 pm

TERRELL-Your point was well made and well understood. The thing that’s really exciting to me in this search for a HC, is the abundance of quality prospects. We can only hope Sund doesn’t use the same wait and see approach he’s used in resigning our FA players, and we end up hiring what’s left, or a consolation prize.

I don’t know how JChildress feels about RSund at this point, but I do know Chills wants back into the NBA and we’d be crazy not to resign him if possible. I think his overall talent, versatility, maturity and basketball smarts are more valuable to us than anything we could get for him in trade. A player that’s an assassin along the baseline, who plays and scores consistently without the ball or having plays called for him, can play 3 positions effectively, as well as both ends of the floor, would be invaluable to us.

Add Chills and Teague, or another quality PG, to our current starting lineup and we would have a solid lineup. His ball handling, passing, rebounding, penetrating and DEF abilities would be an improvement.

Xavier Molina

May 27th, 2010
10:39 pm

Randolph Morris @ center is just not gonna cut it. WE NEED A SEVEN FOOTER! Also, is Jim burn is roaming austin?

Tru hawks fan

May 28th, 2010
6:07 am

lenny wilkens for head coach.. no assistant coach for head coach.. just sign lenny wilkens he’s a hall of fame coach that would like to return coaching for the NBA.