Atlanta Hawks: Another Way With J.J.
While breaking down the Hawks’ options concerning J.J. and free agency, I mentioned in passing that the Hawks could gain a trade exception and perhaps a draft pick in a sign-and-trade with a team under the salary cap. Aaron, a moderator at Hawksquawk.net, emailed to say he thinks the exception (acquired in what’s known as a “non-simultaneous trade”) could be more beneficial than initially meets the eye:
“The traded player exception (TPE) the Hawks would get by trading him to a team under the cap would be extremely useful in future trades. It’s very possible that the Hawks could move Joe to somewhere like Chicago for a TPE and then turn around and use the TPE to acquire a replacement wing. Just off the top of my head, someone like Corey Maggette would definitely fit the mold of an available scoring wing. (Not sure how he’d feel about Crawford, but it’s just a thought). Joe wouldn’t mind because it wouldn’t affect his bottom line in a negative way, and the team receiving him would definitely be interested because it lowers his initial salary, thereby increasing the salary space they have to pursue complimentary players.”
(What he means by the lower initial salary is that because of the larger future raises available to a Bird Rules free agent, J.J.’s first-year salary would be lower in a sign-and-trade than in a straightforward signing.)
Good point by Aaron, and one that’s actually illustrated by the example I used in the post: Seattle’s sign-and-trade of Rashard Lewis to Orlando in 2008 for a $9 million trade exception and a second-round pick. In a non-simultaneous, a team can acquire up to 100 percent of the salary sent out plus $100,00 with any difference built up as a sort of credit known as a trade exception. Since draft picks have $0 value in trades until the player signs a rookie contract, the Hawks could get a pick and also get the full value of J.J.’s new contract as an exception and acquire a player(s) in a future trade (the limit is a year) without the requirement of matching salaries.
Typically, teams willing to trade a player without receiving a player in return tend to be teams looking to trim payroll and/or get out from under a contract (Maggette, to use Aaron’s example, has 3 years and $30.8 million left on his deal). And that’s pretty much what happened to the Sonics: they used the $9 million exception to acquire Kurt Thomas from the Suns, who were looking to shed payroll and gained an $8 million trade exception.
But the Sonics also got two first-round draft picks in that deal and later dealt Thomas to the Spurs for another first-round pick and a couple of expiring contracts. (That sequence of deals is one of the many examples of why Michael Gearon Jr.’s disdain for “bad contracts” can be a tad overstated: in the NBA, there’s almost always a way to move players for something of value even if it requires some short-term pain.)
So Aaron is right that a trade exception could be no small thing. The Hawks likely wouldn’t be able to get a comparable player to J.J., or might have to take on an burdensome contract do so, but it would provide more possibilities than simply using the mid-level, bi-annual and minimum-salary exceptions to plug the hole.
– The latest on the Hawks coaching search: Dwane Casey is set for another interview, Avery Johnson’s desire for personnel power has been overstated, Larry Drew is being considered and Mark Jackson appears to be a long shot. Rick Sund apparently hasn’t even narrowed down his initial list of candidates to a leading group.
MC
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348 comments Add your comment
GeeMack
May 26th, 2010
12:57 pm
Fundamentals & I MUS WRITE
You guys make some good point concerning the coaching search. I thing more than anything the Hawks need a leader on the floor.
The most successful teams have a great head coach and a leader/coach on the floor. That’s a bigger gap than the coach itself.
This year nobody on the team team held players to a higher standard, Someone has to enforce the coaches wishes.
GeeMack
May 26th, 2010
1:03 pm
Ramon
Perk and Rando’s developement has nothing to do with Doc. It’s the result of playing with 3 surefire HOF’ers, and seeing how the prepare for games.
The Hawks wouldn’t get the same results out of lesser players. KG,& Ray Ray both had great work ethic before going to Boston. They were notorious for getting on teammates who didn’t prepare to be professional.
Doc’s biggest asset to the Celtics is casting the championship vision before the Big 3, and the Big 3 made sure the teammates followed suite.
Fundamentals
May 26th, 2010
1:09 pm
We definitely need leadership on the court to define and ensure what the coach asks is done right. More reason why KG has always been my favorite. He demands excellence, committment and hard play. What is his opinion of Casey? Has anyone asked? He coached KG for 20 games.
Ramon
May 26th, 2010
1:17 pm
Here’s a question, I wonder what would Dallas require to trade for Jason Kidd. I know that may not sound like a good idea, but what other veteran who’s been to the finals twice, and still playing at a high level, is available? I don’t remember the last team that Kidd went to that didn’t win more games after he got there.
Fundamentals
May 26th, 2010
1:23 pm
I’m not a fan of Kidd. He may have been to the finals, but so has Collins. He and Vince don’t have rings for a reason. We need a young talented leader. Is Horford our chance? He needs solid help in that department. Nobody really stepped up this year to help.
O'Brien
May 26th, 2010
1:28 pm
Ramon,
Jason Kidd did not play at a high level in the playoffs. In fact, Dallas fans were upset Carlisle didn’t give more PT to their rookie guard Barrera (sp?) in the playoffs.
Fundamentals,
I think Casey coached garnett for a season and a half in Minnesota. Casey’s record was 53-69. But he was 20-20 when they fired him halfway through his second season.
His replacement went 12-30 for the remainder of the season.
Ramon
May 26th, 2010
1:32 pm
Fundamentals, I think Josh tried to step up and lead a lot. Josh was the defensive leader on the court, he was the one letting other players know when they were out of position (even on offense) and encouraging other teammates.
Fundamentals
May 26th, 2010
1:41 pm
O’Brien – does that mean Casey was on the right track and got derailed? Better start than Woodson had here?
Ramon – I love Josh, but till he grows up we have no hope in him. He can lead and act right…if he wants to. Honestly he acts like an entitled teenager who never grew up. He wants to be an All-Star, but his performance over the season didn’t grant it. He digressed somewhat late. Can he put it together next year. I hope for that every day!
Big Ray
May 26th, 2010
1:51 pm
Ramon ,
I understand what you’re saying, and I’m going to drop it. It was pi$$ poor asset management. Even though Horford is a great player, whom I really like, drafting him is not enough of a consolation prize for pi$$ing away two top 5 lottery picks, two years in a row. Unless of course, you think Horford is an NBA top 15 player, or otherwise a franchise player.
Also, think about this. Let’s say we draft Marvin in 2005, but drafted either Rudy Gay or Brandon Roy in 2006. You then have the option of trading Marvin while his value is still extremely high, or you can move JJ to the SF position, which he is big enough to play. Or, you could trade the rights to such a player for another piece that fits better. No matter how you slice it you have far greater value to work with, which is what’s at the core of good asset management. Yes, you lose out on Horford, but who says it’s not like you couldn’t go out and get a decent big man through free agency or trade. People automatically assume that if we weren’t able to draft Horford, that the only bigs we would have on our roster are Zaza, Morris, etc. That’s just plain skewed conjecture.
Then there is this: If you draft Roy or Gay, are you as worried about haivng a marquee scorer if JJ leaves? No, because you’ve still got Roy or Gay, and you still have Josh Smith in your frontcourt. Instead, we are STILL wondering what will we ever do at the pg position, STILL staring at an underproductive Marvin Williams, and STILL wailing like a bunch of banshees about Joe possibly leaving.
Asset management. Yes, Billy did put the frame together for this team to be built on. Now, the cornerstone of that frame could very well be gone this summer. And when is the last time you saw somebody going to the bank for a loan on a new frame? Need something to actually build onto that frame. It’s not that we don’t have it, it’s that we are STILL missing essential pieces that we should NOT be missing.
But what the heck…here we are…will be interesting if JJ leaves.
Big Ray
May 26th, 2010
1:53 pm
Ramon ,
I agree on the Josh Smith defensive leader thing. I felt he stepped up there as well. Unfortunately, he still had his ruts where he would get totally unfocused. Even worse, he came unhinged in the playoffs and put up some miserable performances, including walking back up the court on defense in that one game, the other team scored, everybody looked like a jackass on the play.
Being that leader means staying focused all the time, and then taking personal blame (publicly, if need be) when you have a lapse. Josh isn’t quite there yet, and I hope he gets there damn soon.
K-Dogg
May 26th, 2010
2:03 pm
If horford this summer learns to go to his left in the post and moves to the 4 he will be a 20plus 10 guy in his sleep!!!
terrell
May 26th, 2010
2:09 pm
Ramon, did you just say Perkins was a VERY GOOD player? Please. We would’nt even know who he was, if he was on another team.
drmaryb
May 26th, 2010
2:20 pm
IMUS WRITE
I know who Blue-Ray is.
If the kid doesn’t know how trades work? Then he should stay in school and learn, or better yet ask questions.
Know that he has been schooled! Know he knows. Ignorance of the rules are no excuse when you land in front of the judge – so better to learn on a fantasy bog than in a real life situation.
The same goes for basketball players who leave school early, walk away from an opportunity of a LIFETIME to obtain a college degree & an education – then show up in the NBA with no FUNDAMENTAL skills whatsoever &
Ride the bench with long faces & long paychecks.
Crybabies all want the same thing! A warm bottle and their diaper changed!
I’m a long time season ticket holder who stayed in school, worked to perfect my craft & for my money?
I demand better than – less than 100%! Hey, I’m old school and I believe in TUFF love & accountability.
If you can’t take the Heat? Then get out of the kitchen. If you say something absurd more than once? You just might get called out on it. Welcome to the REAL world! Besides, it is disrespectful for kids to interject into grown folks conversation. That’s what is wrong with most kids today – no respect for rules and law…problem is they become adults with the same bad habits and have kids of their own & now we have generations of ignorance & it never stops!
If you read some posts or better yet – MC’s editorial first? You just might learn a few basics to help you with your posts. I’m not talking about varying opinions Just basic fundamental facts & reasonable statements!
I hope I helped the kid out. Otherwise, that’s what Myspace & Facebook is for.
There is a reason you can’t a driver’s license until age 16.
Whew….that tirade wore me out! LOL!
Fundamentals
May 26th, 2010
2:29 pm
Perkins and KG seem to be doing alot better on D than AL & Josh…just sayin. Seems to be an effective defender and rebounder for the C’s.
drmaryb
May 26th, 2010
2:39 pm
IMUS WRITE
BTW Blue-Ray’s role is not the Po-Po on the blog, he is the consummate perennial FAN on here. Law Enforcement is what Blue-Ray does as a career! He puts his LIFE on the line everday to Protect & Serve Citizenship. That my friend is REAL!
This blog is NOT real! This is for entertainment purposes ONLY! No on will DIE if I get fired-up on here! We’re just trying to KEEP it REAL on here – hopefully. The blog police is anybody on here who wants to impose their will on each other! You do it! It’s my turn now!
Peace IMUS….I gotta go pay some bills. BTW I simply love reading ALL your editorials on here. Always have!
Keep it up & keep holding us accountable for our statements!
lewis
May 26th, 2010
2:40 pm
Terrell,
Perkins is a great player. He was raw and overweight when he came into the league, i’ll admit that much. But he’s learned from the best and has become a gritty player. My favorite thing is his fearlessness. There’s no one in the league that Perkins is afraid of. Dude is a flat out beast who has no problems handling the likes of Shaq and Dwight. He’s excellent at using his fouls, and plays great while in foul trouble. He’s almost every bit as good of a defender as Dwight Howard, the difference is he doesn’t complain or dunk as much.
drmaryb
May 26th, 2010
2:43 pm
Typo on that 220pm tirade:
“Now that he has been schooled? Now he knows”. (Sorry – no time to proof-read). LOL!
jroc
May 26th, 2010
3:10 pm
Jason Fleming is correct who do the Hawks think they are.Woody was making much progress for this team and shouldn’t have been treated this way.Please fanatics stop with these retarded trade proposals, you guys have been climbing the NBA ladder for the past 4 years don’t try to overhaul the team because of a missed step this season.You made it to the second round of the playoffs just how many teams can say that.Sund do not touch the hawks core players of jj josh horford or crawford Man thats some dynamite talent just with these four guys.Build around these guys and maybe you can go a little farther please don’t listen to these wannabe GMs that ride the short bus to work. Woody, man you almost did the impossible in Atlanta… yeah you almost turned doo doo to gold.
drmaryb
May 26th, 2010
3:14 pm
Super – Stars!
Super – Stars aren’t Born they’re Made!
Mj was Great but he made himself Geater and became The Greatest Player of our time.
He was drafted at #5 and challenged himself to become better than that. Word has it that he worked in the gym until midnight most days. He put up 3,000 three pointers per day until he became a prolific three point threat. It took years to become a jump shooting specialist. Therefore he was Special!
Rumor has it that Mr. Johnson sleeps 14 hours per day. Perhaps he should 10 hours per day & spend the other 4 hours working on his jumper. He’s paid Max-Money so why not be the best Max Player possible?
There is no excuse for resting on your laurels. There is no excuse for rushing your shot and shooting bricks if, your being paid to make jump shots. I would like to see Joe join the All-Star 3 point shooting contest some times. I mean, Ray Allen and Dale Curry and many others compete in the specialist contests. I would like to see Joe represent the Hawks and do some extra stuff at the All-Star Games. I thunk it would be fun to see him do more and get possibly get some commercial endorsements. That would go a long way to make the Fans proud of him. I guess that is just not within his personality to do so.
I’m just sayin’ I would like see Joe assert himself more in his craft. We definitely Joe to re-sign here.
jroc
May 26th, 2010
3:21 pm
That sleep thing for 14 hours is something that is done by todays sport stars Steve Nash,Lebron and many others do it, something about healing the body.Yeah jj and josh needs a reality check and needs more desire maybe the new coach can light their fire.
bigdave
May 26th, 2010
3:29 pm
“If horford this summer learns to go to his left in the post and moves to the 4 he will be a 20plus 10 guy in his sleep!!!”
i dont know about in his sleep, but it will be a hell of a start..
drmaryb
May 26th, 2010
3:29 pm
Sorry for the TYPOS, but you can read between the mis-spellings. LOL!
Hawks Fan
May 26th, 2010
3:30 pm
I keep seeing and hearing of ways to try and keep Joe Johnson how about for once trying figure out a way we can lure a big time ball player such as Lebron or D Wade. I’d prefer lobster before I settle for tuna!!!
jroc
May 26th, 2010
3:40 pm
All this drama because a team went up against a team that had there number all year and got swept.Remember back in the day when the knicks,celtics and the pistons use to beat the crap out of mj and the bulls.Did the bulls panic no they went to the gym and worked harder till they became the top dogs.All these young hawks need to do is work harder in the gym and have jj and josh to step it up as vocal leaders on the team.Stars lead by example and the hawks need one of these guys mainly jj to become more of a leader.They found out they can handle the celtics they just forgot about the other top teams in the east.Watch out hawks the bobcats are nipping at your heals and the heat are on the verge to reload.Don’t try to fix your team just to find a way to match up with orlando and the rest of the nba fly right by you.
ant banks
May 26th, 2010
3:43 pm
i really hate this time of the year…some of you have some good posts and informative data. however, i get tired of the crazy ass trade proposals some of yall keep mentionin’, like trade marvin and bibby and a pick for ____________. hawks pick 24th and who wants bibby and marvin for anythin’?
FACTS!!! we ain’t gettin’ lebron, dwade, or bosh!!! no one wants bibby, marvin, or a 24th pick. dammmm
jroc
May 26th, 2010
4:02 pm
Take that to the bank son and cash it.Some of these hawks fans don’t appreciate what they got.Just yesterday you guys were the New Jersey Nets.Be Patient Children!!!
Fundamentals
May 26th, 2010
4:18 pm
Bibby might be useful in trades next year since he’ll be expiring. Marvin may very well flourish under a new coach & system. Hold him till the All-Star Break to see what he can show.
This summer will be key for our team. We need hard work in the gym. We need specialty coaches, we need a fire. A new coach can set the philosophical foundation and begin the process. We’ll see who Sund chooses.
Other than that what is the status of Chills? Will he come back with the Greek economy faltering? Has he developed? From what I have seen no?
Also what of Gladyr? Will he be in camp? What other prospects will arrive in camp this summer? Stack could’ve been useful last summer. Instead we took Hunter/Mario. I would contend that Stack taught us a lesson in the playoffs.
Use the summer and season to develop. Season starts next April.
terrell
May 26th, 2010
4:38 pm
Fundamentals, Josh and Al werre switching all the time. They never played Howard straight up.
terrell
May 26th, 2010
4:41 pm
Mary B. MJ was drafted at #5? Really?
K-Dogg
May 26th, 2010
4:45 pm
Quest dog i dont even think you have any idea who the Hawks are are see any games unless they come on TNT or espn!! You swinging from Josh sacks is redickuless!!! Come on man he a grown man and dont want you im sure dog. Yeah he blocks alot of shots on the week side but alot of players in the L do that!! If he leaves i know you will be at home playing russian roulette like the cat did earlier this week but life goes on dog get over it. I know local players younger then you like Josh, Dwight and Randoplh; you look up too(which is odd) but if your home town team trades them trust me they will be better if Mr i cant shoot or dribble is long gone!!
Fundamentals
May 26th, 2010
4:48 pm
Terrell,
Do you think either has the strength to take Howard straight up? Horford has tried for 3 years. Switch or no switch, he isn’t that strong. Perk has bulk and height. It helps.
Maybe when our DPOY steps up and shuts someone like Dwight, Lebron, Kobe, D Wade ect down then we can talk about Josh. Joe got stuck guarding the tough assignments. Josh floated around looking for blocks most nights. I know he has potential for DPOY, he just hasn’t consistenly shown anything. Still too young, raw and volatile.
It also took MJ about 7 years to perfect his team. Maybe we’re entering our 7th year with this group, but where’s Michael?
jerry_west
May 26th, 2010
4:58 pm
With or without JJ, all our core young players Josh, Al, Marv, Teague and Chillz will increase there value by the end of this year. Only injuries could stop that. Absolutely no reason to sell low.
Bibby+Craw’s values can only go down.
honest_abe
May 26th, 2010
5:13 pm
drmaryb: as you “bust” on all these other bloggers for being immature, you forgetting to see that you write like an uneducated wannabe lil kim on crack. whatever you say is mind numbingly annoying. i would just skip what you write but you do it so frequently its kinda hard.
sam: still defending woody. sad buddy sad. i guess you just prove the saying that “if i put his brain in a nat’s butt, it would fly backwards”
no need to blow this team up. hire ty corbin. resign jj. trade smoove for parker (if they’ll take him) .. and go look for a robin lopez/kendrick perkins clone. and no i’m not saying lopez is as good as perkins but they both play with alot of energy on the defensive end and they both have some size. find that and the hawks are a legitimate threat in the east. without…….. well hell they just won 50 with woody leading the way.
Ramon
May 26th, 2010
5:30 pm
Fundamentals, 2 years ago when KG was healthy, Josh did shut him down in the first round of the playoffs. But with the switching defense, and also the matador defense that Bibby and Crawford played, Josh never got a chance to truly guard someone one on one for majority of the game. Josh was unable to full commit to defending one person because he had to be alert to help defense. For the last four seasons, Josh has been just about the only help defense strategy.
Rod from College Park
May 26th, 2010
5:31 pm
K-Dogg,
“Yeah he blocks alot of shots on the week side but alot of players in the L do that!!”
Statements like this are what make people not take anything you say seroiusly. Josh not only blocks shots from the weak side, but he blocks them form the strong side, behind and in front of him. Actually a lot of players in the league don’t do that. That is one of the reasons why he was second in the voting for DPOY, and one of the youngest players in league history to have 1,000 blocks in his career. Making what he has accomplished faster than more than 95% of guys who have ever played the game of basketball, sound regular is just plain being a hater.
Ramon
May 26th, 2010
5:43 pm
Rod, THANK YOU! These people make it seems like Josh isn’t breaking records with his blocks. And then on top of it, he’s at the top of the league in steals. If there was a statistic for drawing offensive fouls, he’d be there also.
Ramon
May 26th, 2010
5:46 pm
Josh leaving the team immediately causes the points given up to go up by 4-8 ppg. Especially if you’re trading Josh and keeping Bibby, Marvin, and Crawford. I’d find it hard to trade any one of my top three defensive players, especially if those same three players are the three best players on the team. As I’ve said, consistent playoff teams NEVER trade their best three players.
Ramon
May 26th, 2010
5:58 pm
Its funny how in the offseason (for the Hawks) 2-3 days seem like an eternity when nothing has happened. lol…
mark wilson
May 26th, 2010
6:06 pm
You have to take a chance on changing this roster to get better. If you stand pat with a roster that crumbles in the playoffs, you will get more of the same. a 50 win season, followed by an ambarasing playoff run. You absolutely cannot keep this team together. Trade Josh Smith and Marvin Williams to Chicago for Joakim Noah. trade joe johnson for a first round pick (even if it is a pick for next year), and a mid level exception. This would be a s and t of course. Try to dump off Pachulia, and Bibby on anyone stupid enough to take them. The starting lineup would consist of Teague, Crawford, Childress, Horford, Noah. Sign John Salmons. Salmons and Crawford are interchangeable. either could start. Rebuild the bench through the draft. We would have plenty of draft picks to do this.
drmaryb
May 26th, 2010
6:08 pm
Honest-Abe
Get your “scroll – On”
That’s what I do, but some people post under multiple names & sometimes I get caught reading garbage.
I love reading the really good ICON bloggers & they know who they are. I own three offices so, just don’t have enough time to read everything. But, I really appreciate all the research artists. It saves me time from doing that & I love seeing all the stats & facts and stuff. (Very Educational)
I usually blog on my off days. BTW where have you been, I haven’t seen you in a while?
I love your posts. I’m just cracking – up on here and having fun. Its nice to get away from World – Issues & bill paying. I love this blog – it’s just entertainment man, its not that serious – I mean really?
I MUS WRITE
May 26th, 2010
6:20 pm
Drmaryb:
I throw jabs at Ray all the time- thats just what i do,but i wasnt disrepecting the mans profession. He does a job that I could never ever do. Im a Gulf War Vet and I do know what its like …..(up close and personal)……. to put your life in harms way on a daily basis.
As far as the guys leaving college early for the NBA- I cant blame them If I had that chance I would do it a minute. What other job can you get as a 19 year old that gaurantees you financial stability for the rest of your life? You can always go back and get your degree,you cant always play in the NBA….Besides alot of guys go back and finish school V.Carter,Jamison,Shaq etc……
Also alot of families really need the help. What if that player had the talent to play pro ball but suffered a career ending injury while playing for free in college. If it were up to me I would eliminate the age rule all together,its really sending the wrong message IMO. U can go defend the country at 18 but you cant play a childs game at the highest level even though have the talent to do so……..
Even if the guy only plays for a few season, 6 million plus is probably more than he’ll ever see sitting in a cubical going through the motions on a daily basis.
I MUS WRITE
May 26th, 2010
6:29 pm
“Get your scroll on” LoL…………..
Najeh Davenpoop
May 26th, 2010
6:34 pm
“As I’ve said, consistent playoff teams NEVER trade their best three players.”
I’d say, more accurately, playoff teams never trade one of their three best players unless they are receiving a guy who would also be one of their three best players.
When Boston traded Al Jefferson for Kevin Garnett, Jefferson was one of their three best — but so was Garnett, so it made the trade worthwhile for Boston.
If people can actually come up with a trade idea involving Smoove that brings back a guy who will provide as much of an impact as Smoove, I am all for it. The idea of trading him for Noah is the closest I’ve seen to one that would maintain the Hawks at their current level or improve them (since Noah can play center and allow Horford to play PF, where I think he could score 20 points per game). The vast majority of the other ideas posted on here — including trading him for Bosh, who is no more of a center than Horford — would only make the Hawks worse.
drmaryb
May 26th, 2010
6:42 pm
Honest-Abe
Thank God you’re not the GM. I like your suggestion on the Bigs Perkins/Lopez et.al.
But, lest really be honest – trade Smoove for Parker? Nah Man, no way. I love Parker but let’s try to do that & keep Smoove. Smoove has not reached his upside – no where near, let’s be more patient with him.
Ty Corbin? Why gamble there? I have never seen him as a Head Coach, so, too risky. Maybe we should have done that when we got Mr. Woodson (to rebuild this team). But, hey we are close to advancing out of the 2nd round, I would like to see a proven HC with some success. But, if we do end up w/a project at Coach , then I like Thibbedeau.
I’m just sayin’
What???
May 26th, 2010
7:08 pm
Jason Fleming took the easy way out by blaming management after getting grilled:
“Re: Woodson – I never said he was a perfect or even necessarily all that great of a coach, but the fact of the matter is his teams improved every season with a very flawed roster. The Hawks are a solid team that went exactly as far as anyone expected – is it the coach’s fault they faltered when everyone thought they would? This is the same coach of the same team who led them to greatly exceed expectations in that first-round series against the Celtics a couple years back. Did the coach regress since then? What has held the Hawks back is not coaching, it’s management. They desperately wanted to keep Marvin Williams when they didn’t really have a role for him. They paid Mike Bibby last summer just to maintain the status quo, when his best days are behind him. They created a roster where your choices at center are Zaza or playing Horford out of his ideal position. These are things that lead to a team performing exactly to expectations. Woodson may have contributed to that, but the real point here is Woodson is taking all of the blame when it’s not all his fault.”
I mean he makes some good points. Gotta get rid of mike Bibby, and We def, wont win anything with zaza unlesshe’s like a 3rd string backup (I mean, he got out hustled by Dan freaking Gadzuric). Management (sund) tried to keep the status quo which was wrong. But that doesn’t change the fact that Mike Woodson can’t coach, period. His def was actually nice but he refused to change or tweak it for different teams, and the switching, ugh. Letsn not even get started on his offense.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 26th, 2010
7:42 pm
What??? @ 7:08 pm, exactly.
Woody wasn’t the only problem on this team by any stretch of the imagination. He was just one of the most significant ones and arguably the most significant one. Just because he’s gone doesn’t mean nothing else needs to be done, but just because other things need to be done doesn’t mean he shouldn’t have been fired.
Jeff D.
May 26th, 2010
7:45 pm
Deal Joe and really shape this team into an UP-TEMPO, slashing and cutting offensive team. Upgrade the tugboat to a speedboat. No more hanging on to the ball and standing around!
drmaryb
May 26th, 2010
7:47 pm
I MUS WRITE
OK, that’s an excellent point re: leaving school early & returning later. I do remember the PF from
GA Tech. Aaaawww man what was his name. He was projected as a Lottery pick, but returned for his senior year and blew out his knee. Ended up never getting drafted. Aaaawww, help me out here?
This was after the Kenny, Brian. & D-Scott era! I think he played before Marbury was one & done?
Anyway, excellent point. I like the analogy of going to war @ 18 but can’t play ball @ 18.
That is terrible, because Golf & Tennis has no restrictions on going pro either.
Mmmmmh! Who made that rule & why? Is it Stern? I did understand, however the similar rule in football though, due to the physical-ity of the sport itself.
BTW thank you for your service! What an accomplishment. Really glad you returned home hopefully in one piece. Later!
Ramon
May 26th, 2010
8:05 pm
Najeh, I agree with being willing to trade Smoove for someone better than him. However, I wouldn’t trade him for Noah. Smoove is capable of giving you 20 ppg in a structured offense. I think Smoove and Horford would be more productive than Horford and Noah. Smoove and Horford could average 39 ppg and 20 rpg, as opposed to Noah and Horford have the possibility of averaging 33 ppg and 21 rpg. So to me it still wouldn’t be better production. And for the record Noah had more problems with Dwight Howard than Horford did.
Jeff D.
May 26th, 2010
8:13 pm
IF the Hawks trade Josh, all I would expect in return is a guy of equal talent, a much higher bball IQ and some maturity. I think Josh was a real buzz killer for the Hawks.