Atlanta Hawks: Another Way With J.J.
While breaking down the Hawks’ options concerning J.J. and free agency, I mentioned in passing that the Hawks could gain a trade exception and perhaps a draft pick in a sign-and-trade with a team under the salary cap. Aaron, a moderator at Hawksquawk.net, emailed to say he thinks the exception (acquired in what’s known as a “non-simultaneous trade”) could be more beneficial than initially meets the eye:
“The traded player exception (TPE) the Hawks would get by trading him to a team under the cap would be extremely useful in future trades. It’s very possible that the Hawks could move Joe to somewhere like Chicago for a TPE and then turn around and use the TPE to acquire a replacement wing. Just off the top of my head, someone like Corey Maggette would definitely fit the mold of an available scoring wing. (Not sure how he’d feel about Crawford, but it’s just a thought). Joe wouldn’t mind because it wouldn’t affect his bottom line in a negative way, and the team receiving him would definitely be interested because it lowers his initial salary, thereby increasing the salary space they have to pursue complimentary players.”
(What he means by the lower initial salary is that because of the larger future raises available to a Bird Rules free agent, J.J.’s first-year salary would be lower in a sign-and-trade than in a straightforward signing.)
Good point by Aaron, and one that’s actually illustrated by the example I used in the post: Seattle’s sign-and-trade of Rashard Lewis to Orlando in 2008 for a $9 million trade exception and a second-round pick. In a non-simultaneous, a team can acquire up to 100 percent of the salary sent out plus $100,00 with any difference built up as a sort of credit known as a trade exception. Since draft picks have $0 value in trades until the player signs a rookie contract, the Hawks could get a pick and also get the full value of J.J.’s new contract as an exception and acquire a player(s) in a future trade (the limit is a year) without the requirement of matching salaries.
Typically, teams willing to trade a player without receiving a player in return tend to be teams looking to trim payroll and/or get out from under a contract (Maggette, to use Aaron’s example, has 3 years and $30.8 million left on his deal). And that’s pretty much what happened to the Sonics: they used the $9 million exception to acquire Kurt Thomas from the Suns, who were looking to shed payroll and gained an $8 million trade exception.
But the Sonics also got two first-round draft picks in that deal and later dealt Thomas to the Spurs for another first-round pick and a couple of expiring contracts. (That sequence of deals is one of the many examples of why Michael Gearon Jr.’s disdain for “bad contracts” can be a tad overstated: in the NBA, there’s almost always a way to move players for something of value even if it requires some short-term pain.)
So Aaron is right that a trade exception could be no small thing. The Hawks likely wouldn’t be able to get a comparable player to J.J., or might have to take on an burdensome contract do so, but it would provide more possibilities than simply using the mid-level, bi-annual and minimum-salary exceptions to plug the hole.
– The latest on the Hawks coaching search: Dwane Casey is set for another interview, Avery Johnson’s desire for personnel power has been overstated, Larry Drew is being considered and Mark Jackson appears to be a long shot. Rick Sund apparently hasn’t even narrowed down his initial list of candidates to a leading group.
MC
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348 comments Add your comment
Rod from College Park
May 25th, 2010
1:06 am
terrell,
“Cant believe anyone still has faith in Marvin’s game. It’s been 5 freakin years. Unbelievable!”
I convinced some people on this blog are related to him. So they want to see a new coach come to Atlanta, and give a guy who no one in the league respects, a bigger role? Maybe with a new coach he will be able to dribble more than 3 times without picking up his dribble. Maybe the new coach will help him finish one on one against Jameer Nelson or Brandon Jennings. Maybe he will teach him how to hit wide open shots. LOL
Ken Strickland
May 25th, 2010
1:07 am
CONCERNED FAN-2 questions. (1) IF DANNY GRANGER IS ALL THAT YOU SAY HE IS, WHY IN THE HELL WOULD INDY WANT TO GET RID OF HIM AND PAY MORE TO SIGN JJ?
(2) AND WHY WOULD JJ WANT TO PLAY ON A SUBPAR TEAM IN A SMALL MARKET?
Grandad
May 25th, 2010
1:32 am
Ken Strickland – I pretty much think you and I are on the same page
with the amendment of a 3rd BIG in rotation with Al & Josh. I would
not want that 3rd BIG to be another player who has to play “up”.
By that I mean having to go against superior size all the time.
If our 3rd were a true [Center body type] who could defend the
rim it would allow the new Coach to explore match-ups. Much like
Jamal is a weapon off the bench, so would our new Big, if we had one?
Think Lamar Odum in rotation in LA. The dif. is they have the twin towers & bring in a smaller body type. With us it could simply be reversed. This idea is not a reflection on Al. Our 3rd Big could
even be someone who is a stretch Big as Ramon was saying earlier
about ‘Dirk’. Just a dif. look. However in my mind a “rim defender” would be more useful. I’m out.
Grandad
May 25th, 2010
1:44 am
Rod from College Park – Not related. But would be proud if he were
my son. I wish to see him perform under the guidance of another
[real] coach. Whether here or somewhere else. If then, he’s a slug,
I will acquiesce.
I’m not here today saying I have faith or not – only, wait & see.
As always your respectful dilettante.
northcyde
May 25th, 2010
2:10 am
The problem with the Hawks . . . is that we’re a SOFT BASKETBALL TEAM.
JJ even said this after that Game 3 beatdown vs Milwaukee. I believe it was drmaryb that said “we need a bad azz”. And she’s exactly right. Matter of fact, we may need 2 or 3 bad azzes at multiple positions.
- our guards ( Bibby and Crawford ) are soft, with their inability to constantly fight through picks. Bibby especially was very weak in this department. Teague isn’t much better either, although he’ll get a pass for the limited minutes he played.
- JJ is soft, because when it comes time to get something from the FT line, he doesn’t go all out to the hole to draw contact. It’s the #1 weakness in his game, and really the thing preventing him from being a borderline superstar.
- Smoove is soft, because he doesn’t like to put a body on anybody when going for rebounds . . which prevents him from being an 11+ a game rebounder. I’ve been wishing for years for Smoove to at least play like Shawn Kemp, but I don’t know it will ever happen.
- Horford isn’t soft, but with him playing center, it takes some of his effectiveness away from him. When centers start to punk him, he really goes into a shell and loses some of his fight.
Believe it or not, the toughest guys on our team may be Zaza and Marvin. But even they are inconsistent as hell on defense, and don’t fight hard enough to get rebound positioning at time. Zaza does it on the offensive end, but not on the defensive end. And Marvin’s rebound production comes and goes like the wind. So hell . . you could easily label them as being “soft” as well.
Soft teams don’t win championships, nor even put themselves in position to play for one. That’s the reason why we hovered around the 12th – 16th range in defense all year. If we keep the core of this team together, they HAVE to be surrounded by tougher guys, in order for us to go further in the playoffs.
Talent and athleticism will get you through the regular season fine. But when the playoffs come, you better be tough, both physically and mentally.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 25th, 2010
2:29 am
A little update for the person (people?) who keep advocating the Hawks acquiring A.J. Price.
northcyde
May 25th, 2010
2:30 am
Shawn Kemp was one of the best “in-traffic” dunkers I’ve ever seen. If we can get Smoove to play with this type of intensity and fierceness when going to the hole, he could take his game to the next level. He needs to purge all of that Rasheed Wallace out of his game, and play like Kemp.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQbUastCD5E
Grandad
May 25th, 2010
2:31 am
Dadgum northcyde – Co-Sign @ 2:10 AM ! Let’s Go Peay !
northcyde
May 25th, 2010
2:41 am
@ Jody . . . all of that stuff you’re seeing all over the net concerning Woody and Marvin, is actually sportswriters repeating some of the stuff that WE SAY on Hawksquawk and on here. A lot of those writers from other teams or national NBA writers use the blogs as their “unnamed source”.
Think about it. What do those writers know about the Hawks? They didn’t even started paying attention to this team until we won Game 4 vs Boston. And they really didn’t take us serious until this year.
Back in the day, writers like Chad Ford used to be all over these blogs and other Hawk boards, repeating the same stuff that us bloggers were theorizing, and stating that his “sources” told him this or that.
northcyde
May 25th, 2010
2:54 am
LOL @ Grandad . . . the Peay was “soft” this year too.
When it comes to basketball, you definitely need talent most of all to win. But if you play soft, you’ll end up like those early and mid 90s San Antonio Spurs teams that could never get past the 2nd round. They only did it one time from 1989 through 1998
- 8 playoff appearances in 9 years
- 1 Western Conference Finals appearance
- 4 losses in the Semifinals
- 3 losses in the 1st round
- never lower than a #5 seed in any of those playoffs
It took them basically tanking a season when David Robinson got hurt ( the year Dominique was a Spur ) . . them winning the draft lottery . . and them picking Tim Duncan . . for them to overcome their “softness”.
Phillip
May 25th, 2010
3:29 am
Not sure if this has been touched on before or not but if we keep JJ will we have any room under the cap to make additional moves or will we pretty much be the same team as last year (plus our draft pick)?
O'Brien
May 25th, 2010
7:24 am
northcyde,
I agree that the Hawks are soft, and we need somebody with some toughness. But sometimes, the players with toughness who are available, come with baggage (for example, Ron Artest and Stephen Jackson). And the Hawks traditionally stay away from guys who might present Chemistry issues.
But as the GM, its Sund’s job to find players toto fill those roles, so I will be waiting and watching to see what he does. We also need a third PG, because I dont want to be forced to rely on Teague and Bibby.
Ken Strickland,
I am in favor of bringing RandMo back, but I dont think its worth bringing Joe Smith back. We need a better option at the backup PF spot.
Big Ray
May 25th, 2010
7:42 am
Haven’t seen too many guys punk Horford, and as I recall, he was the toughest guy on the court in a Hawks uniform (besides Zaza) when we played Boston in the 2008 playoffs. Or did we forget who was jaw-jacking with Paul Pierce and stuffing Garnett at the rim (even if it was called a foul)?
Marvin is most definitely NOT one of the toughest guys on this team. Nobody flops and flails on their way to the hoop more than he does.
If Smoove acted like Shawn Kemp, I’d be happy as hell.
doc
May 25th, 2010
8:10 am
northcyde, i have been saying for years when josh dropped the smoove crap and became j smash we would become real contenders. i hate the smoove stuff as no one smoove can be tough.
Hawks Coaching Search Continues | Soaring Down South | An Atlanta Hawks blog
May 25th, 2010
8:16 am
[...] know so far is that Avery Johnson has been interviewed twice for the job. He seems interested and Michael Cunningham said in a recent blog post that Johnson’s desire for personnel power has be…. If MC is reporting it then it is good enough for me. All indications are that Johnson is [...]
Rod from College Park
May 25th, 2010
9:05 am
northcyde,
Marvin is not even close to one of the toughest guys on the team. He is easily the softest guy in the starting lineup. Mo Evans is much tougher than him. I would even say that over his career, Bibby is much tougher than Marvin has ever been.
Josh in no way is soft. He bangs with guys much bigger than him and holds his own every night. Being a great shot blocker most of the time keeps you from being soft, because there is some form of intimidation there. Josh is 6′9, 240, Kemp was 6′10 280, no comparison. Please don’t confuse soft with being undersized.
cp
May 25th, 2010
9:21 am
lol yea ray I was about to ask northcyde what Marvin was he seeing because the one on the Hawks isn’t tough at all.
O'Brien
May 25th, 2010
9:57 am
Speaking of being undersized, I wonder if our GM suggested to Horford (or even Smith) that they should try and add 10-15 pounds of muscle this offseason?
Hawks need to add a bruiser to the frontcourt. Who is available that fits the bill? I dont know. Because I wouldnt consider Kwame Brown, Haywood, and those guys bruisers. I do like Haywood though, but I think his price tag will be too high.
I also like (restricted) Josh Boone from the Nets. He is only 6-9, 6-10, but he plays with energy and effort, rebounds well, and he could play spot minutes at PF and Center. Plus I think he could be had for cheap.
We’ve all talked about how the Hawks need shooters. There is Mike Miller, Kyle Korver, and some other guys who are available. But I think the cheapest option will be JJ Redick. However, he is a restricted FA, and I would be surprised if the Magic dont match any reasonable offers.
Melvin
May 25th, 2010
10:28 am
OB,
Haywood would be my 1st choice and Ben Wallace would be my second. I would bring Kwame in to fill the Collins role. Also, I like Amir Johnson, high energy guy that hustles and rebound and don’t mind coming off the bench. Recap: Haywood or Wallace (backup C), Amir Johnson (backup PF) and Kwame (3rd C). Would be my choice of bigs to sign.
mp
May 25th, 2010
10:28 am
Marvin Williams and JJ for Chris Paul and Okaford
Dr. Warren
May 25th, 2010
10:45 am
Marvin needs a chance under a new coach. Period. Woody sucked at developing players and Marvin is a victim of that.
CajunStorm
May 25th, 2010
10:46 am
Sign Avery and upgrae the bench. Add Josh Chidress, and bring in FA Brendan Haywood. Keep Joe Smith, Mo Evans, ZAZA, an 2 others that can contribute.
A different offensive scheme will make our current starting 5 more potent an consistent. Teague will make them more explosive, JJ, Jamal, and even Marvin would have more movement and more catch and shoots. We’ll get 50+ wins again but be a much better team.
Avery Johnson is the most important signing this team can make!!!
BTW, We’ll also have Jamal and Mo Evan’s expiring contracts to better the team at the trade deadline if needed.
Dee
May 25th, 2010
10:54 am
I dont know much about salary caps, if JJ leaves how do people feel about getting Gilbert Arenas. Washington does not want him around Wall if they draft him and he will give you the points that JJ is leaving with.
terrell
May 25th, 2010
10:59 am
Vince Carter looked like Marvin out there last night. lol! I dont like Orlando at all, but I’m glad they didn’t get swept last night. I just hate Boston that much more.. Never got over that Nique-Bird series when Bird was getting all the calls, just like Lebron, Kobe, etc…. does now. Btw, that was one of the best, if not the best, game 7’s of all-time.
terrell
May 25th, 2010
11:07 am
CP, Von Wafer > Mario? Yes. Von Wafer > Mo Evans? No
terrell
May 25th, 2010
11:11 am
And Jody, if Woody didn’t want Marvin, why in the hell did he continue to start his sorry butt when Billy left?
terrell
May 25th, 2010
11:14 am
Northcyde, if Marvin is the toughest player on them, we’re in trouble.
JoJo the Godfather
May 25th, 2010
11:37 am
Sign and trade JJ for Kirk Hinrich & future pick (solid defender, 3pt shooter, can play some SG).
Trade Marvin & Bibby for Rip Hamilton (solid defender, great at coming off screens).
Trade Crawford for Andre Iguodala (one of best defenders in the league, passes well, rebounds, and finishes around the rim at a high %, SG & SF).
Sign Childress (first guy off the bench backing up SG & SF).
Eight man core with total salaries just under $64M:
Hinrich / Teague
Hamilton
Iguodala / Childress
Smith
Horford / Pachulia
This should easily be one of the better defensive teams in the league. On offense, each player is a solid passer, runs the floor well, and with the exception of Pachulia finishes strong at the rim. Up the tempo!!!
The Truth
May 25th, 2010
11:44 am
Dee
The only way Gilbert Arenas would even be considered is if somehow his current “Max” contract is terminated and he becomes a FA. This is unlikely since the Wizards get nothing out that deal. I think as long as he is a serviceable player, he and his Max contract stays with his current team.
ILL-logical
May 25th, 2010
11:51 am
@O’Brien. I’ve been thinking the same thing regarding Al and adding heft(and strength). I am of the opinion that while Al at 6′8/9″ has size for a4, his lateral movement and overall agility raise questions in my mind as to w/not he would be an All-Star at the 4.If he continues to gain experience at the 5 AND gains some heft ,then maybe it is not a bad thing for him to remain at the 5.
Now, all the Hawks need is a heady,quick penetrating point guard that can drive and dish as well as score and play some serious D and they will be in business.
Big Ray
May 25th, 2010
12:33 pm
zzzzzzzzzz….zzzzzzzzz…..zzzzzzzz
terrell
May 25th, 2010
12:36 pm
What in the world has Larry Drew done, to warrant all this attention? I never said he was just like Woody. All I was saying is, why hire someone that’s been here for 6 years and has already had some kind of influence on the players? “Time for a new voice”. And I wouldn’t actually call Drew a new voice.
Ken Strickland
May 25th, 2010
12:38 pm
While it certainly wouldn’t hurt for the Hawks to have a bit more toughness, it’s certainly not one of our major problems as I see it. The Lakers have been called soft as well, but it certainly didn’t stop them from winning an NBA title. In fact, the Cavaliers have been called soft, along with the Suns and Mavericks, and these teams have been among the NBA’s winningest teams over the last few yrs.
Being bullies doesn’t put a team in a better position to win an NBA title if they don’t have the OFF/DEF talent and coaching to go along with it.
GRANDAD-Agreed. I’d like us to acquire a center like BHeywood to be our #2 backup center. If we can’t get him, then we need to get someone like DJ MBenga from LA. At 7′ 255lbs, he’s very athletic, runs the floor extremely well, rebounds and protects the basket well. He’s not a polished OFF player at this point, but we’d need his athleticism, rebounding and DEF most.
An alternative to this scenario would be if we could take advantage of the situation in Washington. There’s very little chance of them being able to trade GArenas with his situation and that tremendous contract, and they’re not likely willing to eat his contract. So, we agree to give them JSmith in return for them drafting Kentucky PG Walls and sending him to us. We’d probably have to involve a 3rd team, or take back some filler to make it work.
Adding a FA like BHeywood and acquiring PG Walls would certainly give JJ something serious to think about when it comes to his decision to resign. Imagine a starting lineup of SF-MWilliams, C-BHeywood, PF-AHorford, SG-JJohnson and PG-Walls. BENCH: ZPachulia-C, RMorris-PF/C, JCrawford-SG, JTeague-PG, MBibby-SG/PG, Draft pick/JoSmith, JCollins or MEvans.
Having Horford, Heywood, Zaza and Morris as a 4 headed center, with 3 of them(Horford, Zaza and Morris) having the versatility to effectively play PF, would give us some serious versatility, depth and match up advantages.
Even without JJ, a roster of SG-Crawford/draft pick, SF-MWilliams/CMaggette, PG-JTeague/Bibby/FA, C-Horford/Heywood/Zaza, PF-JSmith/RMorris, and either JCollins, JSmith or MEvans to round out the roster, would be solid. And, it wouldn’t involve any disruptive trades, roster turnover or potential chemistry issues.
terrell
May 25th, 2010
12:47 pm
Ken, it’s Wall, not Walls. lol! Plus Washington would never do that. No way no how. Marvin starting over Maggette? R u serious?
northcyde
May 25th, 2010
12:59 pm
I’m not trying to hype up Marvin by any means, because he’s regressed as a player this year. But he’s really the only guy on the team that tries to go hard as he can to the hole to draw fouls. It’s just that he looks almost uncoordinated when he does it. Zaza could be classified as doing the same thing.
Marvin, from a physical standpoint, is fine. It’s his mental softness that kills him as a player. Out of all the Hawks, he’s probably the most mentally weak. But that guy has tried to go hard to the hole at times, and has gotten hammered. But his mental weakness doesn’t allow him to develop that part of his game effectively enough for it to be an asset.
Rod . . . Josh Smith is soft. Yeah, he goes up against bigger players, but he’s not physical in the paint at all. That’s a big weakness in his game, and what prevents him from being a premier PF in this league. He doesn’t get a lot of fouls called against him, even when he gets hit, because he’s going to the hole way too weak.
For most of Kemp’s career, he was NOT 6-10 . . 280 lbs. Did you click on the youtube link that I posted? Did that look like a 280 lb guy doing all of that? No. Kemp played between 230 – 250 the vast majority of his career. It wasn’t until he started getting hurt in Cleveland, that he put on the pounds and ballooned to around the 280 – 290 mark. But Kemp had the same body type as Smoove. He was just a lot tougher than Josh.
LOL @ Doc . . . I like that . . . J Smash. He really needs to take on that personna, to take his game to the next level, and for the Horford – Smith lineup to really work during the playoffs.
As much ISO offense that we ran not only with JJ, but with everybody, our FT attempts were pretty low.
Josh took the most FTs at 5.2 per game, and has hovered between the 5 and 6 FTs per game mark for 4 years now.
JJ only took 3.5 per game,, down from the 4.6 FTs he took last year.
Horford was even worse at 3.3 per game . . even though that was a career high.
Marvin attempted a career low 2.7 FTs, well off of the 5.1 FTs per game he attempted during the 2007 – 08 season.
A lot of those 4th quarter collapses this year could’ve been prevented, had we just gotten to the FT line and scored some easy points.
Rufus1
May 25th, 2010
1:03 pm
I like the Maggette Idea…If Joe leaves
Trade Joe to Dallas for Dampier..Then trade Dampier for Magette and the TPE…Sounds like a plan.
We don’t need a dominate center we need servicable centers like Etan Thomas, Dj Mbanga or Kurt Thomas.
The real key to the Hawks success in the future, is Teague become like Rondo and a coach who can game plan.
O'Brien
May 25th, 2010
1:11 pm
I give Orlando some credit for not folding last night. But I thought this was hilarious.
“I found Vince Carter. He was on the milk carton in my refrigerator.” — Kevin McHale on NBA TV talking about Carter’s no-show performance against the Celtics.
I dont know why the Magic thought that trading for VInce was the right thing to do. He has never been a clutch player, and he does not have the intangibles that Hedo has. That being said, I wont be surprised if he has a good game 5.
I’m starting to like the idea even more, of bringing in a veteran coach. We are not a young team any more (except for Teague), so I can understand if Sund prefers a HC with more experience (although I’m a fan of Thibodeau).
Ken Strickland,
No way Washington trades the #1 pick away. Now if you can figure out a way to get Collison from New Orleans (CP3’s backup), that might work.
northcyde,
Another thing with Josh is he has to stop whining so much. Nobody likes whiners (especially refs). Unless you’re a borderline superstar who gets away with the whining, he needs to just focus on playing basketball. Plus it hurts the team when he is late getting back.
Another thing that should help us get to the line, is a PG that can penetrate. Bibby attempted 79 FT in 80 games. That’s 1.01 FTA per game, from a starting PG. I wonder where he ranks in PGs and their FTA.
O'Brien
May 25th, 2010
1:13 pm
* Actually, thats 0.9875 FTA per game for Bibby
Grandad
May 25th, 2010
1:28 pm
Ken Strickland – I’ve always liked *DJ MBenga;
his potential & *toughness (black belt in ‘Judo’)
Didn’t he play for Avery in Dallas?
I MUS WRITE
May 25th, 2010
1:44 pm
Enter your comments here
I MUS WRITE
May 25th, 2010
1:59 pm
Cant believe some people want the likes of Maggette,Okafor and Deng on our team. these guys spend alot of time in street clothes. have we learned anything from the speedy claxton debacle….
Gee Mack-I dont think Al and josh have reached their full potential as players but i see where you’re going. We need a bigger body on our front line or well continue to get dominated in the playoffs.
Bigs I wouldnt mind having: R.Lopez,Jason Thompson,J.Noah
Also Resign JJ and bring back Afro Power- Ship Marvin for whatever we could get-seriously I would take Matt Bonner for Marvin at this point.
I dont know if the numbers work but I would offer Josh/Bibby/24th pick
for
Noah/Heinrich
Starterss: Heinrich/JJ/Chillz/Horford/Noah
Bench: Teague/Crawford/D.Wilkins/Morris/Siler/Mo/Anthony Randolph-budding yung talent lost in the world of Nelly ball
Collins and Joe Smith can hit the bricks thanks for absolutely nothing.
I MUS WRITE
May 25th, 2010
2:17 pm
Nothcyde _ cant believe u just said ZAZA and Marvin were our toughest players. Please explain this…… As I recall Marvin gets his shot swatted atleast 3 times a game,the man has no heart- softer than Charmin toilet paper. ZAZA has to be a banger because he has no game,he strictly a hustle guy. what makes ZAZA so tough?
Also-Josh will never ever be what Shawn Kemp was. The Rain Man had it all…Handles,Mid Rang Shot,Rebounding,Defense,and Off the charts Athleticism. I never saw Kemp back down from anyone. I saw Smoove and the rest of our guys flat out quit against The Magic
northcyde
May 25th, 2010
2:51 pm
Marvin doesn’t know how to use his body. Nor does Zaza. But they’re the two most likely to bang with people. As I said, Marvin’s problem is not that he’s physically weak, but that he’s mentally weak. Zaza will bang with anybody, even Howard. He simply lacks talent.
I want the Marvin back that used to try to dunk on people. This is a Shawn Kemp like dunk from Marvin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHqGriU3Le4
Rod from College Park
May 25th, 2010
3:02 pm
Northcyde,
“Rod . . . Josh Smith is soft. Yeah, he goes up against bigger players, but he’s not physical in the paint at all. That’s a big weakness in his game, and what prevents him from being a premier PF in this league. He doesn’t get a lot of fouls called against him, even when he gets hit, because he’s going to the hole way too weak.”
So are you saying he is soft because he has no offensive moves? You are actually telling me that Marvin goes to the hole stronger than Josh? Being soft has nothing to do with not having offensive moves. Some of the top power forwards in the league are, Dirk, Bosh, Garnett, Aldridge, and Boozer, and Stoudemire. All are better offensively, but none better defensively than Josh. Josh is more physical defensively than all listed except for maybe Garnett and Boozer. He also never gets hurt, which would relate to him being soft. I will agree that he sometimes does not play with maximum effort, or does not box out, but soft is not a term that should be used to describe him. Also, as I stated he is smaller than all of the guys listed. Again please don’t confuse being undersized or having a lack of skill finishing around the basket with both hands, with being soft. Marvin is SOFT as wet baby boo boo. If any of those power forwards listed above get Marvin in the post, they exploit him like he is not even there, and Marv and Josh are the same size.
The Truth
May 25th, 2010
3:19 pm
I MUS WRITE
Speaking of Garrett Siler, expect to see this guy in a NBA basketball uniform soon. Bigs are still a rare commodity in the game of basketball. As he gains more experience and with his new association with Yao Ming,it is just a matter time. The Houston Rockets will likely be his first stop.
Garret Siler: Yao Ming’s involvement has helped me with every aspect of my game, period. He’s been getting me in good shape and showing me some new moves.
Rod from College Park
May 25th, 2010
3:20 pm
“I want the Marvin back that used to try to dunk on people. This is a Shawn Kemp like dunk from Marvin.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHqGriU3Le4
One dunk Northcyde. Really. How many times has Josh dunked on someone. The sign of a guy who really finishes strong is when guys don’t go up with them to prevent being on a poster. Josh is on that level when it comes to dunks.
northcyde
May 25th, 2010
3:32 pm
Rod . . . Smoove hardly ever dunks on people in the half court. Smoove gets open court dunks most of the time. Now he has dunked on people, no doubt on that. But he’s much more of a finesse guy than anything.
As athletic as Smoove is, when is the last time you saw him catch a rebound in the air and dunk it? That’s not his game, even if it should be. For him to get to that next level as a PF, he has to play MUCH STRONGER, than what he plays currently.
cp
May 25th, 2010
3:34 pm
I’m sorry Terrell but Wafer in his last year with Houston put up better numbers than Mo did in his best year which was with Orlando. Wafer came off the bench while Mo started a lot of games. To be honest with you Mo was pretty much terrible for half of the season. Check out Mo’s playoff numbers. Wafer put up better numbers in that category to. Wafer is younger and will be cheaper. Plus he can finish in traffic a lot better than Mo. How many dunks did we see Mo blow over the past two years if it was anybody even near the rim. I like Wafer to replace Mo.
cp
May 25th, 2010
3:36 pm
In his first two years Smoove used to try to dunk everything and on anybody with force. I think after he was hearing how he was only a dunker he changed his game. Go look at some old clips of Josh. Dude used to dunk so hard now he tries to do way too many layups. He blowed a lot of easy shots the past few years trying to be finesse instead of using the power he used to.
Jody
May 25th, 2010
3:37 pm
northcyde,smh
We’ll just agree to disagree on who made the call to draft Marvin. I enjoy reading your comments.