Atlanta Hawks: Why J.J. may be worth more to the Hawks than you think
If J.J. walks, the Hawks won't be able to replace him with a comparable free agent. (Curtis Compton/ccompton@ajc.com)
Hawks GM Rick Sund said the team will do whatever it takes to re-sign Joe Johnson but he’s not writing the checks. One guy who is, ASG’s Michael Gearon Jr., said the Hawks would “react” once Johnson hits the free-agent market on July 1.
Gearon didn’t want to talk about J.J. this week but on the day after the Hawks’ season ended he offered some insight into his view on max contracts:
“The biggest problem most teams make is they sign a contract and it ends up being a bad contract. You look at the Miami Heat, Jermaine O’Neal makes $23 million a year. Is he a player that is worth $23 million a year? I would say probably not. If you look at our team, we’ve assembled a team where we try to stay away from bad contracts.
“That said, there isn’t a move we haven’t made. We thought it made sense to get Jamal Crawford here and increase the payroll, so we did that. With the salary cap, the only way go above that is trade players you have or you re-sign players you have where the payroll goes up. Since we bought the team the payroll has increased [by] $24 million What we haven’t done is make a mistake with a bad contract. Well, I shouldn’t say that, Speedy’s contract wasn’t very good, but we turned it into something [in the Crawford trade].”
The obvious counter to Gearon’s argument is getting players like O’Neal often requires signing (or trading for) deals that carry some risk on the back end. But clearly that’s not ASG’s philosophy and, as I’ve said before, it’s hard to blame them since there are only a few max-salary players who would excite fans to the point of offering a reasonable chance of a return on investment in this market. Gearon again:
“If somebody came to us tomorrow and said you can have LeBron for max money and it puts you in the luxury tax, I’d do it in a a heartbeat. But am I going to do that for Ilgauskas? Am I going to do it for Jermaine O’Neal? I don’t think so. . . .
“We have piled tens of millions of dollars into this product to make it good. But it’s also up to fans to show up and see your team and support your team. I think we’ve given them a product as exciting as any in the league. You want people to be there, you want them to support your team and be proud of it. I think we have a team that deserves that.”
No one knows for sure what J.J. can get on the market and/or at what point Sund’s “whatever it takes” is trumped by ASG’s fiscal restraint. But chances are if the Hawks are going to sign a major free agent this summer, it’s going to be J.J. Otherwise, due to salary-cap rules they don’t have many options for signing a comparable replacement.
You can either trust me on that, slog through the following detailed explanation (which could possibly make your head hurt and your eyeballs bleed) or skip down the paragraph that starts with “All of those moves technically would leave the Hawks with $8.1 million in cap room”. . . .
I’ve checked all of the following against info posted by cap expert Larry Coon. I also exchanged e-mails with Coon, who after years of providing friendly help for helpless hacks like me now is writing a blog at the New York Times Web site, among other places. I also corresponded with blog reader Robert Dinterman, who says he’s just a fan with a lot of CBA knowledge. I can tell you this is true, so Ps and thanks to Robert.
I’ve included the appropriate links if you are interested in how I came up with the numbers or are some kind of masochist (I don’t judge). I’m pretty confident it’s all accurate but I don’t claim to be a cap expert or any better than competent at simple arithmetic. If you think there are any errors in math or cap interpretation, please send me an email–mcunningham at ajc.com–and I will check it out and update where necessary.
As it stands, the Hawks have roughly $47.6 million committed to eight players next season when including Mo Evans’ $2.5 million. Let’s say Evans opts out and then J.J. and Josh Childress and all their other free agents signs elsewhere and/or the Hawks renounce all their free agents.
If all of that happens, then the following would come off the Hawks’ books for their total offseason salary of approximately $78.9 million, which includes committed salaries and cap holds for their free agents and the No. 24 draft pick (assuming they keep it):
Joe Johnson’s $15.8 million cap hold
As a Bird Free Agent, Johnson’s offseason salary figure is based on 150 % of previous salary, which is about $22.5 million, but the figure can’t exceed the maximum salary for a nine-year player, which hasn’t been determined yet but that Coon estimates will be about $15.8 million.
Josh Childress’ $10.9 million cap hold
Childress is a Bird Free Agent coming off the fourth year of his rookie-scale contract. According to the 2004-05 rookie scale, Childress’ fourth-year salary as the No. 6 pick was 26.8 percent more than his third-year salary of $2.86 million, or $3.6 million. (The higher salary is because Childress made about 120 percent more than the scale, which is allowable.) The $3.6 million is less than the league-defined average salary of $4.9 million in 2004-05. Therefore, Childress’ cap hold is 300 percent more than $3.6 million, or roughly $10.9 million.
Mo Evans’ $2.5 million salary
If Mo opts out, his salary is wiped out.
Mario West’s $1.06 million cap hold
As a three-year veteran who has been previously waived, West is a non-bird, restricted free agent. As such, his team salary is calculated as the greater of 120 percent of his previous salary ($572,344) or his qualifying offer. For West, the qualifying offer is the greater of 125 percent of his previous salary ($596,191) or the three-year vet minimum ($885,120) plus $175,000, which is $1.06 million.
Joe Smith’s $854,389 cap hold
Smith is a 12-year veteran with a minimum 2010-11 salary of $1.352 million, but since he’s played more than seasons any salary in excess of the two-year veteran minimum salary in 2010-11 ($854,389) is reimbursed by the league and not counted as part of team salary.
Jason Collins’ $854,389 cap hold
Collins is a nine-year veteran with a minimum 2010-11 salary of $1.229 million, but since he’s played more than three seasons any salary in excess of the two-year veteran minimum salary in 2010-11 ($854,389) is reimbursed by the league and not counted as part of team salary.
Randolph Morris $854,389 cap hold
Morris is a four-year veteran with a minimum 2010-11 salary of $992,680, but since he’s played more than three seasons any salary in excess of the two-year veteran minimum salary in 2010-11 ($854,389) is reimbursed by the league and not counted as part of the team salary.
Subtracting Evans’ option plus the free-agent holds would leave the Hawks’ salaries at about $46.1 million (committed salaries for seven players at $45.1 million plus the rookie scale amount of $964,000 for the 24th pick).
But other salary charges apply since the Hawks then would be under the salary cap (estimated by the league will be $56.1 million in 2010-11) and have only eight players when counting the players under contract plus the first-round pick. The roster charge for the four empty spots below 12 are based on the 2010-11 rookie minimum salary of $473,604, for a total of $1.89 million. That would increase the Hawks’ salary total to about $48 million ($46.1 million plus $1.9 million).
All of those moves technically would leave the Hawks with roughly $8.1 million in cap room, but they would be subject to holds for the mid-level and bi-annual exceptions. Those holds apply if adding them would put the Hawks over the cap. It’s hard to say if that will happen now because while the amount for the 2010-11 bi-annual exception is known ($2.08 million) the mid-level amount hasn’t yet been set (Coon is estimating it will be $5.73 million this season). Also, all these salary numbers are estimates while the league calculates them down to dollars and cents. No, really.
If the Hawks are subject to cap holds for the mid-level and bi-annual exceptions, they could renounce those exceptions to gain cap room. Either way, they would be looking at adding players by using either the mid-level and bi-annual exceptions or roughly $8 million in cap room plus minimum-salaried players. So even if Evans opts out, Johnson walks, Childress returns to Greece and/or the Hawks renounce those two and all of their other free agents, there’s still not much flexibility for the Hawks.
As for the Hawks using Johnson in a sign-and-trade to get more value in return, the best way for that to happen is trading him to a team that is over the salary cap. Teams with enough cap room can just sign Johnson straight up and, as everyone knows, there are lots of those teams this summer. Already the Heat are reported to have interest in Johnson, who has said he likes them, too.
If Johnson wants a maximum deal under the Bird rules and his new team agrees, he could go back to the Hawks and ask for a sign-and-trade (he can get six years instead of five and up to about $30 million more that way). But the Hawks wouldn’t have much leverage in that situation, especially if Johnson’s new team is offering him the non-bird max and the Hawks don’t want to go that high. In that case if the Hawks say no to a sign-and-trade, then J.J. could just sign with the new team for the non-bird max.
If the Hawks agreed to a sign-and-trade with Johnson’s new team, they could expect to get back something similar to what Seattle acquired in similar circumstances when Rashard Lewis bolted as a free agent for Orlando in 2007: a conditional second-rick pick and a trade exception.
All of this is a long, painful, mind-numbing way of saying Johnson’s value to the Hawks is enhanced not only because he’s their best player, but also because should he leave they won’t have the flexibility to sign a comparable player. The Hawks could try to get better through trades, but then the problem becomes their reluctance to break up their core group (and possibly weaken the roster in other areas) and the difficulty with trading bad contracts for better players. That’s not to mention ASG’s aversion to taking on large, long-term deals and paying the luxury tax (expected to be about $70 million in 2010-11).
So after three straight years in the playoffs and consecutive trips to the East semis, the Hawks would be hard-pressed to be as good or better next season if J.J. leaves. There could potentially be more flexibility the next season, with Jamal off the books and Bibby’s contract more tradeable, but who the heck knows what will happen between now and then.
Now excuse me while I go place bandages over my bleeding eyeballs.
MC
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475 comments Add your comment
O'Brien
May 19th, 2010
8:18 pm
said the co-owner “We have piled tens of millions of dollars into this product to make it good. But it’s also up to fans to show up and see your team and support your team.”
I wonder if he has been talking to northcyde lol.
KBP
May 19th, 2010
8:39 pm
MC, you warned me and I read the salary cap stuff anyway. Have any more bandages? ASG should keep Joe if financially possible. I have always thought he was the 3rd best two guard in the league. Portland extended Marcus Camby’s contract 2 more years after they had already extended Joel Pryzbylla’s contract for 3 more years. This may make Greg Oden available. Send them Josh and Zsa Zsa for Oden. Keep Marvin, Woody’s offense was Marvin’s biggest problem as it was for Boris Diaw. What do you think?
wcj
May 19th, 2010
8:43 pm
This situation is a mess!!!!!
Dukester9
May 19th, 2010
8:46 pm
1 I dont want to look around in 5 years and JJ becomes our Jermaine Oneal.
2. I hope the philosphy changes with this organization and get rid of the long tall players (everybody 6′9″) including your center.
3. I say send Bibby,Marvin, Puchalia packing somehow someway for a legit center that can play defense and rebound. I say Dalmebert from the 76ers, i mean we if we can dump 1 or 2 bad long term deals from 1 bad short term deal and get a decent center is not a bad deal.
RomeDawg
May 19th, 2010
8:46 pm
Uh….yeah, whatever he said. That is some of the craziest business I have ever seen! Basically, I should stop the “We Want Lebron” shirts from printing?
Zach
May 19th, 2010
8:54 pm
MC,
I just don’t understand why we (if we’re gonna spend 20 mil on Joe) can’t get LeBron? I just don’t understand. Does he not want to come here? What is it? Really how big of difference would it be?
ET
May 19th, 2010
8:55 pm
So it looks like the only way we see improvement next year is if the new coach turns out to be better than Woody and JJ and Crawford stay…
Worm
May 19th, 2010
8:55 pm
Who the heck cares!
Dukester9
May 19th, 2010
8:56 pm
KBP I agree with you on the Marvin thing and disagree about Josh. Yeah Josh is a young winer, but so is just about all of the NBA players now, Josh just needs a coach who he can respect and teach him his strenghts and let him fly. Josh can be a 17pt 10rb 4blck 5asst player on atheletic ability and hustle alone. MARVIN has no heart that says it all. I agree Woody ruined him but a guy with heart would have fought back like Josh did and improve regardless of the environment.
Jamaaliver
May 19th, 2010
8:56 pm
Thanks for that detailed explanation, MC. I have to say, you might be the best beat writer we’ve had in these parts for quite some time. And considering who your predecessor is, that’s saying something.
I rarely post, but I read through every chance I get. Well done man, and keep up the good work.
Eric
May 19th, 2010
8:58 pm
Would the Bulls trade Deng and Heinrich for JJ? Then they could feasibly have Rose, JJ, Lebron, and Noah, not a bad start to a team.
Dukester9
May 19th, 2010
9:01 pm
The only reason i say trade for Dalembert because it will allow us to move Bibby and Pachulia’s contracts and still fill a need. Plus Dalembert contract expire next year. Oden come on what will we be getting??? LOL
Dukester9
May 19th, 2010
9:03 pm
I 2nd that Jamaaliver he works very hard. Good Job sir
tyger
May 19th, 2010
9:03 pm
Gilbert Arenas, Josh Howard….
Big Ray
May 19th, 2010
9:08 pm
Actually, what all this says is that the Hawks put a lot of their eggs into one basket. Add that to monumentally screwing up top-five lottery picks in the draft two years in a row, and here we are.
Heh.
And yeah, Gearon sounds exactly like Northcyde. But should you be surprised to hear him say that? Uhhhhhh….no.
ryan
May 19th, 2010
9:10 pm
So i gues what the Hawks could do is trade Jamal Crawford and Bibby in some kind of package deal. I the Hawks have to find some way to clear cap space. They can not miss out on this deep free agent class.
Welty
May 19th, 2010
9:11 pm
Get rid of JJ’s lazy azz and don’t look back.
His non-performance in the playoffs was awesomely uninspiring. The Hawks should sue the jerk for the $15 million they paid him.
Big Ray
May 19th, 2010
9:11 pm
Maybe that was another way of saying that Joe will get paid whatever he wants to stay here (and you better like it, dang it).
Okay then. But can we see to it that he gets a couple of open looks per game from now on? I’m tired of 18 second ISOs and miserable playoff performances. Bring in the new coach!
jfreak13713
May 19th, 2010
9:13 pm
The question is are we going to pay J.J. big money long term or let Crawford fill that role and clear some cap room for year after next? Not an easy question to answer but I guess that depends on the head coach we get?? If the Hawks pick the right coach then we all know that with J.J. the Hawks are a very good team. We all should remember that the Hawks played under a limited offensive minded coach. Who knows what they will do with a coach who really knows how to get the best out of them. A good solid center would make a huge difference but most teams could say that.
In the end even without J.J. the Hawks should still be good enough to make the playoffs and lose in the second round??
Also, Sund when was the last time you took a ride on MARTA? If you are looking for reasons why some don’t attend games start with the old HIGHTOWER station!
Michael Cunningham
May 19th, 2010
9:13 pm
@KBP: man, my head is hurting. your trade wouldn’t come close to working with the salaries (Josh + Zaza=$15.8 mil, Odom=$6.8). the trade exception is salaries have to be within 125% + $125,000 so Portland would have to throw in roughly $7 million more in salary for it to work (Josh has a trade kicker that complicates things further). plus, not sure Portland would want to give up on Oden while he’s still got one year of rookie scale salary remaining, nor would Hawks likely want to take on an injury risk for two years for a healthy and productive player with a reasonable contract. intriguing deal, though, i like the thinking.
and there are Hawks people who agree with you re: Marvin
The Ayatollah
May 19th, 2010
9:14 pm
I must say that JJ’s 14 points per game performance in the second round was riveting and losing by 25 points a game while being swept was overwhelmingly thrilling. Thanks for the memories Mr. Gearon. Too bad more fans didn’t show up or it would have surely been better than that. If the fans had just supported the team, they could have been in the playoffs still. Yep sure right you betcha.
Welty
May 19th, 2010
9:15 pm
Is Bill Russell still playing? I would love to have him.
Michael Cunningham
May 19th, 2010
9:16 pm
@Dukester: “I dont want to look around in 5 years and JJ becomes our Jermaine Oneal.” true, but would you feel the same if, in the interim, the Hawks made a legit posteason run?
“I say send Bibby,Marvin, Puchalia packing somehow someway for a legit center that can play defense and rebound. I say Dalmebert from the 76ers, i mean we if we can dump 1 or 2 bad long term deals from 1 bad short term deal and get a decent center is not a bad deal.”
Dalembert is a center with an expiring deal for $10 million, which will make him a hot commodity next season. The Sixers won’t deal him for, as you say, one or two bad long-term deals.
Michael Cunningham
May 19th, 2010
9:18 pm
@Zach: the Hawks’ max for Joe will start at something more like $16 million. the reason they can’t do the same for LeBron is they are over the salary cap and can’t carve out enough space to fit LeBron under the cap. the only way to get him would be a sign-and-trade, which would mean LeBron has to want to play here, J.J. has to want to play in Cleveland and the two teams have to come to an agreement. i think that scenario ends with LeBron wanting to play here.
Michael Cunningham
May 19th, 2010
9:20 pm
@ET: “So it looks like the only way we see improvement next year is if the new coach turns out to be better than Woody and JJ and Crawford stay…”
that’s a good way to look at it (Crawford staying is at least in the Hawks’ control). another way to do it is if the Hawks can swing a trade that immediately makes them better, but i don’t see how they have the pieces and the financial wherewithal to do that.
O'Brien
May 19th, 2010
9:20 pm
Ray,
Not only did we waste lottery picks, but we also gave Marvin, Bibby and ZaZa ~$18 mil combined yearly. Think of what we could have done with that money…
Michael Cunningham
May 19th, 2010
9:21 pm
@Jamaaliver: thanks for the Ps, i really appreciate it. but Sekou is indeed a Hawks blog legend.
OK
May 19th, 2010
9:22 pm
Get two more draft picks (maybe one for Mo Evans) and Replace Mo and Mario with some REAL wings
DEVIN EBANKS and PAUL GEORGE AKA>>> Rudy Gay X2
Pick up either Shaq, Brendan Heywood, or Travis Outlaw with our Mid-Level Exception (Ilgauskas is trash at this point)
Use our Bi-Annual on Unrestricted Free Agent 7′1 center Kyrolo Fesenko
Use the vet min to fill out the rest (Randolph etc..)
If we loose JJ we will be fine because of George and Ebanks (but we willl likely have to bring 6′5 SG Sirgey Gladyr over to help fill the void). If that happens I would also suggest waiting on a legit center for another year and getting even more wing scoring by picking up Travis Outlaw(who can also be a stretch PF) With the MLE.
We simply must get rid of Dead weight (Mike Bibby) There are no Great Guards in the draft & I do not like Bledsoe. I like the Idea of sending him to Indy for A.J Price. It seems like a good Idea since Price (no relation to Mark) is 6′3 can really stroke it and can spot up jus like Bibby. He would be a considerable upgerade defensively and now you have two different PG’s a slasher (Teague) and a Gunner (Price) BOTH of whom can play a little Defense.
titanhawk
May 19th, 2010
9:22 pm
how about we offer washington a trade like this: we send them jamal, bibby, zaza and the #24 pick for gilbert arena’s contract and the #1 pick (wall). They might take it to get him out of their. Then we are set at the point for years to come. Resign JJ. MLE John Salmons. We would have Wall, JJ, Gilbert, Smooth, and Al 1st unit. Teague, Salmons, Evans, Joe Smith, and Marvin 2nd Unit. Payroll doesnt increase much and we are much better…. in my opinion.
Dukester9
May 19th, 2010
9:23 pm
Your right about Dalmebert i think we could have got him at the trade deadline though. But Sund probably had to let Woody play his string out with his players. I agree about the short term payoff with JJ he all but guarantees us a playoff berth. Wow this will be the most interesting summer in the NBA im telling you.
Michael Cunningham
May 19th, 2010
9:24 pm
@ Big Ray: “Actually, what all this says is that the Hawks put a lot of their eggs into one basket. Add that to monumentally screwing up top-five lottery picks in the draft two years in a row, and here we are.”
when you think about those screw-ups, it really is kind of incredible that the Hawks ever got this good. the lottery is the best way to get cheap, productive players for the long term. the Hawks couldn’t do that twice, and yet here they are.
Melvin
May 19th, 2010
9:25 pm
How can Amare call his opponent game lucky after that guy got 19rebs vs his 3???
Amare is a walking layup or dunk, for the other team and some bloggers wanted to trade Josh for Amare, I say HELL NAW…
Melvin
May 19th, 2010
9:26 pm
Where is Hubie Brown? Nash failed to get back on defense on the 2nd of his consecutive turnovers
Hi, I'm devin Ebanks. Draft me!
May 19th, 2010
9:28 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7vLW94NFmw
Hi, I'm Paul George. Draft me too!
May 19th, 2010
9:29 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERcmFdlrrXY
Dukester9
May 19th, 2010
9:29 pm
Um folks in case Mike has gone to bed im the moderator. Please go to ESPN.com its called the trade machine. Plug your teams and players and it gives you a solution. Good trade or Bad trade it still doesnt help if either team thinks its stupid but its a start, Please use that tool before you start putting up your trade ideas. LOL And Mike approves this message. WOW guys cmon
Hi, I'm A.J Price. Get me the Hell outta Indiana!
May 19th, 2010
9:30 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQ9nIHfX4N4
O'Brien
May 19th, 2010
9:34 pm
From the previous blog,
@Ramon,
Over his career, Sund has made some good moves (trading for Crawford, getting Ben Wallace in Detroit, getting Ray Allen for Gary Payton).
However, this is the same Rick Sund who hired Bob Weiss to coach the Sonics, but fired him 30 games into the season.
This is the same Rick Sund who wasted lottery picks 3 consecutive years on Robert Swift, Johan Petro, and Saer Sene (and we think drafting Shelden Williams was bad. Try drafting 3 Sheldens).
This is the same Rick Sund who gave Bibby a 3 year guaranteed contract, even though nobody was offering Bibby 3 years.
And I did not see anywhere that anybody was interested in Marvin, although part of that was because he was restricted. I think Sund jumped the gun on Marvin, Bibby and ZaZa before letting the market play out like he did with Josh and Chills.
As a result, I will wait and see how the summer plays out. As AJ would say, WWSD.
Grandad
May 19th, 2010
9:38 pm
Zach, Zach, Zach, Zach, Zach, Zach, Zach, Zach, Zach ?
Grandad
May 19th, 2010
9:42 pm
Michael:
S&T with Childress would net help / correct?
Jody
May 19th, 2010
9:48 pm
Do they really believe that if they just hire an assistant coach and do nothing else between now and July 1 that Joe Johnson is going to re-sign? They can continue to have the love fest with their “core” all they want. If they don’t realize it has some significant flaws, we’ll be back here same time next year.
robdawg08
May 19th, 2010
9:51 pm
Why are the Hawks hit with JJ’s cap amount of $15.8 million if he LEAVES as a free agent ? I don’t understand that. Why can’t they use that $15.8 million to sign another star player ? Why can’t they use JJ’s money to sign Chris Bosh ?
robdawg08
May 19th, 2010
9:54 pm
So basically the Hawks are gonna suck next year ? Thanks for the warning. I won’t waste my time next year watching them.
OK
May 19th, 2010
9:55 pm
We have JJ’s bird Rights that’s why. The rest of the top free agents will probably start off at 18mill+ wer can’t compete with. That’s why getting extra draft picks is really important to draft some capable wings (George & Ebanks) in case JJ decides to go elsewhere.
O'Brien
May 19th, 2010
9:56 pm
Jody,
Exactly. Keeping the core together is one of the reasons we are in the situation we are in. Because Rick wanted to resign Bibby, Marvin and ZaZa, keep the guys together. great for Chemistry too. But now we find out that the Chemistry was shaky at times.
There is nothing wrong with change if it makes you better.
A.J Price
May 19th, 2010
9:57 pm
Don’t forget about me! I’m stuck in Indiana and Bibby sucks! Think about it!
ryan
May 19th, 2010
9:57 pm
Yea O’ Brian i agree we wasted a the 2nd pick on Marvin Williams over Chris Paul the biggest dumbest move the Hawks will will ever have to live with next to trade Paul Gasol for S.A.R.
Jody
May 19th, 2010
9:58 pm
And when will the blaming of the fans stop? The folks in Atlanta want title contenders now, not just a team that makes the playoffs. When the Hawks made their first trip back to the playoffs in years versus the Celtics, how did the fans respond. Sell outs, that’s how. Now, they’re expectations are higher. They want a legitimate title contender and the Hawks have not provided it. When the tone at the top of the organization is “we want to keep the teams that were behind us last year behind us and we want to gain ground on the teams ahead us”, the people read that as “hey, we’re pretty much satisfied to the best of the rest”. When the Hawks really get serious about winning a title, the fans will come out and support them just like they did when the Hawks returned to the playoffs for the first time in nine years. Until then, quit blaming the fans for not wanting to spend hard earned money on mediocrity.
A.J Price
May 19th, 2010
10:00 pm
Did I mention I’m playing behined Earl Watson and T.J Ford?
A.J Price
May 19th, 2010
10:01 pm
(-_-)
Jody
May 19th, 2010
10:01 pm
O’Brien,
“There is nothing wrong with change if it makes you better”.
I couldn’t have said it any better myself. Co-sign that all the way.
A.J Price
May 19th, 2010
10:04 pm
Save Me! I’m cheap too.
ryan
May 19th, 2010
10:08 pm
Well don’t forget Rick Sund drafted Kevin Durant to he also said if he was with Atlanta at that time he would not have past on Chris Paul.
ant banks
May 19th, 2010
10:14 pm
BIG RAY,
you said it all. we are in this mess cause we F’ up 5 drafts picks, 5!!! count ‘em.
titanhawk
May 19th, 2010
10:18 pm
how bout we resign jj and send him with marvin to cleveland for lebron. Our attendence would go up and we could spend more money every year
Mannnn
May 19th, 2010
10:20 pm
“If we loose JJ we will be fine because of George and Ebanks (but we willl likely have to bring 6′5 SG Sirgey Gladyr over to help fill the void).”
There are some very YOUNG folk or just straight up Base heads posting here. The Hawks are a day late and dollar short once again. This should have been taken care of LAST summer. Joe liked Woody and would have stayed if Woody was here. Sund knew he was going to axe Woody last summmer, he should have traded Joe or signed Woody to an extension. BUT no. He spent time energy anddd… MONEY on guys you can get a dime a dozen or as they like to call them the “Core”. Bibby Zsa Zsa and Marv. Now the Hawks are screwed royally. This biggest FA splash in NBA history and the HAWKS lose thier TOP player and cant get nothing in return. New voice??? Need a NEW BRAIN…. and whats wrong with Marc Jackson??? Why isnt he on the list? This goes back to that brain thing I guess.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 19th, 2010
10:24 pm
LMAO @ O’Brien’s first post… I also thought of northcyde as soon as I read that.
i_am_soulstar
May 19th, 2010
10:26 pm
very informative MC
titanhawk
May 19th, 2010
10:26 pm
jason heyward does it again … why can’t we get that lucky on the hardwood?
robdawg08
May 19th, 2010
10:29 pm
What the hell is a bird free agent ? Basketball economics are crazy. A player leaves and causes you a $15 million cap hit on your 2011 team ?
OK
May 19th, 2010
10:30 pm
Mannnn, You’d retain one of the dumest head coaches in the NBA currently just to keep your star player? HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA!!!! 0_0
Joe went to college, if he’s not smart enough to see that Mike Woodson was a coach who had reached his limit then he doesn’t deserve to don a Hawks uniform.
I could see if Joe were dropping 40+ every other night and could carry a team on his own like LeBron or Kobe. MAYBE then, but Joe? That boy know he needs help (Good coach + Great supporting cast) in order to compete for a title.
Long live Mr. Potato Head! Hahahahaha!!!! ROFLMBO!!!!!!
OK
May 19th, 2010
10:34 pm
robdawg08, Yes, unless you renounce said players rights.
Bird rights allow you o go over the cap in order to sign your own free agents, which means you don’t have to be under the cap in order to offer them a ton of money. If the player is not a part of your team, then in order to offer JJ say, 16mill per year, you would have to be under the cap by that much in order to pull that off.
ryan
May 19th, 2010
10:43 pm
The Hawks are in a mess because we paid to much for Bibby and Marvin Williams and now were going to miss out on this deep class because of Billy Knight and Steve Belken. And the Spirit group is the biggest scam.
clarkekent
May 19th, 2010
10:57 pm
-trade marvin and our 1st for rudy gay and resign JJ.
-let teague start..
-bring back childress as our backup SF or trade him for future 1st rd considerations. 2011 2012
-bring in a shot blocking back-up PF or center … when josh is not on the floor teams head straight to the basket plus since we are stuck with bibby on the 2nd unit we need someone to help him out and ZaZa is not a shot blocker.
northcyde
May 19th, 2010
11:01 pm
(( standing ovation for Mr. Cunningham ))
That article was so beautifully written, it brought a tear to my eye. You researched the topic, compiled the data, and comprehensively came up with your analysis to the point where it cannot be disputed.
(( extended clapping ))
Easily your best blog of your Hawk beat writer career. That was brilliant.
**********
@ O’Brien . . . LOL, it looks like Mr. Gearon may have been reading the blogs. Either that, or I fully understand the management side of this issue we have with the fans not being as “loyal” as they should be.
All the owner said, is that while they may not have made all the right moves, they have made moves to make the product better . . . and it’s done just that.
So now it’s time for the fan base to “grow up”, and start doing their part by supporting the team more ( and not just at the big games ).
As a fan, I understand that. The season ticket holders understand that. The people who go to a lot of games understand that.
But we have a sizeable group of Hawk fans that either don’t understand that . . . or could care less to understand it.
The fans can’t have it both ways. They expect management to go all spending wise, to try to put a winner on the floor . . . but the fans get to pick and choose IF to support the product or not, even if it’s a good ( but not great product )?
Can’t have it both ways. Once the product becomes good, the fans are almost obligated to make every attempt to support the team more.
jlewis
May 19th, 2010
11:06 pm
MC:
I’m still curious about one thing, did JJ re-injure his thumb during the playoffs? If you have some insight, let me know.
jlewis
May 19th, 2010
11:06 pm
MC:
I’m still curious about one thing, did JJ re-injure his thumb during the playoffs? If you have some insight, let me know.
Terrell
May 19th, 2010
11:11 pm
Zach,
To answer your question about us not getting LeBron. The reason we can’t get LBJ is because the way the rules of the salary cap are set up in the NBA. You can go over the salary cap if you are trying to resign your own player to a max contract but you can’t go over the cap to sign another team’s player.
cp
May 19th, 2010
11:17 pm
Its crazy how blowing all those draft picks still haunt this franchise. I still cant believe they took Sheldon freaking Williams at 5. I almost stopped supporting this team after that move. I remember that night so clearly. I don’t think I have ever been that mad during a draft. I just knew the rumor that they were going to take Sheldon was a smoke screen. I said its no way any gm would take that bum that high but BK proved me wrong.
Jay
May 19th, 2010
11:23 pm
Mr. Gearon Jr.,
The reason the Hawks dont draw as well as their record would suggest is because of two main reasons.
1. The Hawks half-court offense is very boring. That is obviously going to change.
2. The Hawks best player is very boring. Yes, I am talking about Joe Johnson. He isn’t fast, he rarely dunks, he rarely shows excitement, he isn’t flashy, and obviously…he doesn’t sell tickets.
Melvin
May 19th, 2010
11:31 pm
Amare can’t guard Gasol or Odom. Let him stay in Phx….
Alan
May 19th, 2010
11:36 pm
Joe has got to go, and it’s not because he’s not a great player. He is.
That being said, his game is designed to actually SLOW the tempo of the game. If you watch Joe get the ball in the open floor, more often than not he actually waits for the opponent to make contact, so that he can beat them with muscle.
If this team is to continue to grow, it will be with speed. We presumably will be starting Jeff Teague at the point next year, and have athletes that can thrive in the open court, if given the chance and the practice to actually effectively learn spacing and ball movement on the break and in transition.
Woody talked a good game about wanting to run, but he comes from the old-school half-court mentality.
We desperately need to hire a coach that can help our offense with ball movement, let Joe go, and realize that next year will be a mini rebuilding one.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 19th, 2010
11:42 pm
Oh yeah, terrific article MC. I’d like to request a follow up where you discuss the realistic trade value of the Hawks’ key players, so that we don’t see people proposing Marvin and Bibby for LeBron all summer on these blogs.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 19th, 2010
11:43 pm
Jason Heyward does it again — hitting the game winner, and single-handedly accounting for an increase in attendance for Atlanta’s superstar-starved fan base.
The fact that Joe has clearly proven in the last two playoffs that he is not a superstar is not going to help the Hawks sell tickets. That’s just reality, whether you like it or not. Gearon, being a lifelong ATLien, should understand this by now.
Rod from College Park
May 19th, 2010
11:43 pm
Mr. Gearon,
“Since we bought the team the payroll has increased [by] $24 million What we haven’t done is make a mistake with a bad contract.”
If you think paying a guy 8 million per, who walks like Fred Sanford, and he is only in his early 20’s, can’t hit wide open jumpshots, can’t defend anyone, can’t finish one on one against point guards like Jameer Nelson and Brandon Jennings, shows no emotion, can’t stay on his feet and is one of the worst small forwards in the league is a good contract, then the Hawks are in pretty bad shape. He should a case study for any scientist who is actually trying to discover how to make a human being disappear. I have been a season ticket holder for the past 5 years, and I promised myself that if I have to look at this pathetic excuse for a basketball player another year, I will not renew.
You actually made a mistake drafting the guy, and then you turned around and made the same mistake again by giving him a new contract.
ant banks
May 19th, 2010
11:48 pm
a look at the lottery draft classes from 1985-2008 and grades. hawks are not the only teams who have had horrible picks!!!
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=draftreview/090624
Najeh Davenpoop
May 19th, 2010
11:48 pm
Like most of Sund’s decisions, I can’t say I’m all that impressed with his strategy of interviewing people he knows as opposed to the most highly regarded candidates. The whole point of bringing in people for an interview is to see what they have to offer. If you are not going to interview people you don’t know, how are you ever going to know what they have to offer? Maybe the Hawks don’t want to break the bank hiring the coach, but it doesn’t break the bank to interview people.
ant banks
May 19th, 2010
11:54 pm
BIG RAY, MC, ‘POOP, NORTHCYDE, ET AL,
so we will have 8mil this yr, if we lose jj? but do we hamstring ourselves to him for 6yrs wit’ his leadership style, tyin’ up 17mil/yr for 6 yrs to prevent only havin’ 8mil this yr? i am not sure if we should ride this out, let him walk, do the best that we can this yr and have bibby’s contract next yr. to trade.
jus’ thinkin out loud
Najeh Davenpoop
May 19th, 2010
11:55 pm
“Since we bought the team the payroll has increased [by] $24 million What we haven’t done is make a mistake with a bad contract.”
I agree with Rod’s post at 11:43, and I’ll take it a step further. Marvin, Bibby, and Zaza — the three most overpaid, untradeable players on the roster — make a combined $16 million next year and $18 million the year after that. It’s nice that the DASG has been willing to increase the payroll since they got here — leaving aside, of course, the fact that if they hadn’t, they would have the lowest payroll in the league. Maybe they haven’t made a mistake on a bad max contract, but paying those three unproductive players that much money is not much better than paying Jermaine O’Neal $23 million. Those contracts are still plenty bad, especially in light of the fact that if the Hawks had let two of those players walk, they would not be in the situation they are now, where they can’t replace Joe if he leaves because they don’t have enough cap room.
ant banks
May 19th, 2010
11:59 pm
this is why i love the contracts of the nfl. they can cut a player and only be responsible for the bonus money against their cap. i hate guaranteed contracts. it hamstrings a team for years.
Not Drinking the Kool-Aid
May 20th, 2010
12:02 am
Why not go ahead and sign J.J., try to trade for an additional draft pick to get a big man and a shooter like Paul George, or a center like Solomon Alabi or Jerome Jordan. George and Alabi will not make it to the Hawks pick, so they either have to move up in the draft or make a trade to move up. Hawks could use their exception to bring a quality free agent like B. Haywood in the middle or Luke Ridnour to run the show until Teague is ready. Please get rid of Mike Bibby(He is like an an anchor around the Hawks neck). If Joe bounces how about signing Ray Allen, who is a free agent, for a year or two, until we can get a shooting guard? Ginobili is also a free agent but would probably cost a considerable amount of money. Just say no to Ebanks he is pretty stiff at the three and really doesn’t have a great jumper, I would rather keep Marvin than go with Ebanks. If the Hawks get a good coach there are a number of creative ways to make this team competitive! Hire Avery or Van Gundy or Byron Scott, or Thibodeax, or Lawrence Franks!!!
HawkKingBibby
May 20th, 2010
12:09 am
Bravo Bravo. I didnt know anyone who wrote here knew what the cap was. Thanks for this article and the effort you put into it.
Ginobili signed
May 20th, 2010
12:14 am
a three year extension with the Spurs two weeks ago.
Grandad
May 20th, 2010
12:15 am
Najeh:
I’m hate to disagree with you on our untradeables:
*Marv – contract is not horrible due to his age,
and the fact he has been hamstung by woodson, plus,
his contract #’s are not egregious.
*Zaza – actually a good contact and would be very tradeable.
*Bibby – wait one yr. / exp. contract / becomes tradeable.
Grandad
May 20th, 2010
12:18 am
People forget that even though Zaza
has been in the league since 1982
he is only 26 years old.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 20th, 2010
12:20 am
“so we will have 8mil this yr, if we lose jj? but do we hamstring ourselves to him for 6yrs wit’ his leadership style, tyin’ up 17mil/yr for 6 yrs to prevent only havin’ 8mil this yr? i am not sure if we should ride this out, let him walk, do the best that we can this yr and have bibby’s contract next yr. to trade. ”
First of all, it’s pretty clear that if the Hawks let Joe walk, they will not be able to replace him with a comparable player, which means they will be taking a step backwards this year and probably next year. Joe is not a superstar — he has clearly proven this in the last two playoffs — but he is still a high level player who is not replaceable with $8 million of cap space. In addition, the Hawks without Joe will probably not be bad enough to get the high lottery pick needed to draft a superstar that would replace Joe. Chances are, with Joe gone, the Hawks become a 40-45 win team (depending on the coach) with little cap flexibility to be able to add the significant piece they need to return to the 50-win level, and remain that way for the next few years. That certainly won’t help ticket sales either.
Because of this, I’m assuming they keep Joe, even if they overpay him to do so. I think at this point with the Hawks’ salary cap situation, one of two things is going to happen in order for the Hawks to reach the next level without taking a significant and long-term step backwards. Either Teague has to develop into the next Rajon Rondo and start shouldering the majority of the offensive load the way Rondo has taken over from the Big Three in Boston, or the Hawks have to pull off a creative trade on the level of Kwame Brown for Pau Gasol with a team trying to shed salary.
If Teague does become a top-5 point guard, the Hawks are in luck. At that point, they probably can keep this core together, add a couple of complementary pieces, and expect to contend for the Eastern Conference title, the way Boston is contending in the ECF despite their Big Three all being on the decline. Looking ahead, that would probably be the ideal situation for this team.
If the Hawks don’t feel that Teague can become that caliber of player, the Hawks have to get creative with a trade. I know Gearon mentions above that the DASG is averse to taking on large contracts, but they may have to consider the possibility that one large bad long-term contract is no worse than the three mid-sized bad long-term contracts they currently have on the books. This is why I come back to the trade I mentioned a few days ago, where the Hawks send their overpaid trifecta of Marvin, Bibby, and Zaza along with Jamal Crawford to the Hornets for Emeka Okafor, Peja Stojakovic, and Darren Collison. Yes, this involves taking back the atrocious contract of Okafor, but it also brings the Hawks a point guard that has proven he can play at a high level and shoulder the offensive load.
Bottom line is, the future growth of the Hawks rests on Josh, Al, and whoever plays point guard being able to take the offensive focus away from Joe, who is not the caliber of player capable of carrying a team on his back in the playoffs. Whether Teague makes that happen by continuing to develop or a trade acquisition makes that happen, it’s the only way the Hawks advance past the 50-win, second-round sweep level now.
Of course, a lot of this assumes the Hawks upgrade at the coaching position, and don’t just hire another Woody.
sleepy
May 20th, 2010
12:25 am
I was all for letting JJ walk unless we got a team friendly deal but we are a in a tough situation so I would reconsider it if we traded Josh instead . I just think that if we are going to bring JJ back then we need to think big and should be looking to use Joshs contract to get another STABLE star quality talent + solid role player to add to JJ and AL. We then use our MLE to fill in whatever else is needed.
The future is now
BIBBY MUST GO NOW!!
May 20th, 2010
12:26 am
We must find a suitor, we MUST get something back for him or he will just hold us back for the next two years!!!! We have to trade him for something NOW!!!! Preferably before NO ONE in the league wants the guy.
This applies to Mo Evans as well.We can’t just let this dork opt out!!! We gotta get a draft pick or a PG like A.J Price for him!
Clyde
May 20th, 2010
12:27 am
*Yawn*
Grandad
May 20th, 2010
12:30 am
Najeh:
As I was disagreeing with your 11:55 PM post;
*I must ‘Co-Sign’! Your 12:20 post.*
northcyde
May 20th, 2010
12:33 am
@ Jay . . . . we won 34 home games. 34. And a lot of those games were pretty exciting, despite the lack of a superstar. The Hawks at home are a dang good entertainment outlet. They win over 75% of the time at home combined in the past 3 seasons.
That’s why I say it’s time for Atlanta to “grow up”. How about rooting for a team that WINS . . period, instead of wanting to root for a winner AND a superstar?
Portland is a “boring” team, with them playing at one of the slowest paces in the NBA. But as they have continued to get better, their fans have come out in droves to support the team.
It’s time for Atlanta to do the same. And stop with the excuses as to NOT do it.
A.J Price
May 20th, 2010
12:36 am
Yooo Hooo! Don’t foget about little old meee!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQ9nIHfX4N4
A.J Price
May 20th, 2010
12:37 am
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/aj_price/index.html
northcyde
May 20th, 2010
12:55 am
I still wished that last summer, that the Hawks would’ve made a play for Andre Miller. I don’t think they could though, unless they renounced Bibby, leaving us with Teague and Crawford to run the point. I’m not quite sure what our cap situation was last summer, after we made the Crawford trade.
But to be honest, most of the fan base was cool with bringing back Bibby, Zaza, and Marvin, and thought each one got either a fair deal, or was slightly overpaid. Without those 3, we’d have serious depth issues, and may not have had as a successful season as we had.
It’s no like that those contracts look real bad now. Hopefully at least Zaza and Marvin can get back on track.
northcyde
May 20th, 2010
1:00 am
It’s no “lie” . . . not “like”
Grandad
May 20th, 2010
1:18 am
Grandad’s – trade o’ the day:
[my (#2) son hates this one]
Toronto gets:
* Josh Smith
* Josh Childress S&T
We get:
* Andrea Bargnani(poison pill proviso)/must trade before 6/1
* Reggie Evans
Bargnani [stretch 4/5] necessary for today’s offenses.
7-1,[37% + 3pt] / 1.5 bl./ avg.sal $2 mil less than Josh
R.Evans – enforcer we need
*unsure of S&T rules.
*I do not want to trade Josh.
A.B. better match with Al.
Bash away !
Najeh Davenpoop
May 20th, 2010
1:25 am
“Without those 3, we’d have serious depth issues, and may not have had as a successful season as we had.”
Maybe, maybe not. Here’s the thing: if Phoenix can sign Channing Frye for $2 million a year, the Hawks could have signed him for the same price. If Orlando can sign Matt Barnes for $1.6 million a year, the Hawks could have signed him for the same price. I don’t expect Marvin or Zaza to have taken pay cuts to sign at those rates, but better to bring in someone new who outperforms their contract than to keep non-core players at higher than market value. Point guards being at a premium as they are, the chances the Hawks could have found a player with Bibby’s resume at that position would have been slim, but they could have at least made his third year a team option (like Andre Miller) instead of a player option. As unproductive as Bibby was this year, it would have been a pretty big risk to not have a veteran PG on the roster.
Say the Hawks let Marvin and Zaza walk last summer and signed Frye and Barnes at their current rates instead. That would have saved them around $7 million; you add that to the $8 million in cap space they would have this summer if Joe walks (as detailed in MC’s article) and the Hawks would be in position to replace Joe with a player of similar caliber. In addition, considering how inconsistent and unproductive Marvin and Zaza were for most of the season and how important Frye and Barnes both were on their contending teams, chances are the Hawks don’t end up sacrificing any depth, and they don’t lose much, if at all, on their 53-win total.
I’m not going to pretend like I’m some kind of genius that foresaw this happening — in fact, I was one of the people who was OK with keeping those three players at the time, although I had reservations about Marvin’s contract, and I specifically didn’t want Frye at the time because of his suspect defense — but Sund gets paid the big bucks to make the right decision in these situations, not me.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 20th, 2010
1:27 am
And don’t get me wrong, I’m not suggesting in my post above that the Hawks would be better off letting Joe walk; I am just saying that the Hawks wouldn’t be painted into a corner like they are now, where they either keep Joe (likely for more than he’s worth) or they let him walk and can’t replace him.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 20th, 2010
1:29 am
Grandad, I am with your #2 son. I hate 7-footers who can’t rebound; Bargnani averages a measly 6 boards in 35 minutes. Bargnani is no more capable of guarding Dwight than Smoove, let alone Horford; he accomplishes nothing in the Hawks’ supposed quest to move Horford to PF. HB Ando used to talk about trading Marvin for Bargnani, and I didn’t even like that idea, let alone trading the #2 DPOY for his soft, jump-shooting azz.
Grandad
May 20th, 2010
2:22 am
Najeh:
Touche!
truthspitter
May 20th, 2010
2:49 am
Your wrong, if the cap is going to be $56 million which has been reported then they will have 10.8 million to work with after they make Mo opt out. They currently have 47.6 million tied up for next year, if Mo opts out of his $2.5 million contract that will leave them with $45.1 mill or so on books. They will have $10.8 or so million to spend. They could sign Rudy Gay to a contract comparable to what Josh and Danny Granger are getting which started with about $10 there 1st year. They could then go over the cap to sign there own guy Joe. I hate when reporters, writers, and even the front office lie to fans, they are lying if they say what I type is not true I do my research.
Grandad
May 20th, 2010
3:14 am
truthspitter:
That’s why NY is waiting until after they sign
their two (supposed) Big time FA’s before they
re-sign David Lee. At least that’s what I’ve read.
Dr. Warren
May 20th, 2010
5:28 am
Nice, exacting post, MC. It looks like the Hawks, at best, will provide us fans with another four-or- five-year “run of goodness” that, at best, ends in a 2nd round dismissal. It happened in the late 70’s with Drew-EJ-Roundfield; it happened in the 80’s with Spud-Doc-Dominique; it happened in the 90’s with Mookie-Dikembe-Steve Smith. And we’re three years into this run already. Guess our next chance to break the cycle will come around 2020. Ahhhh, Atlanta pro sports.
jeff
May 20th, 2010
6:29 am
JJ is not worth max money. 16 Million…. no way. try 8-10 million. He has already earned more than his worth. The way I see it at 16 million he is making 10 cents a dribble and $5000.00 a point.
Go get 2 average players and let this one walk.
MannyT
May 20th, 2010
6:34 am
@truthspitter–did you account for the cap holds? MC did a very good job of walking through the expenses related to players that have some level of free agency. Look at his initial blog information.
@MC–Great blog, you may have to permalink this for the entire summer as it will be a strong reference point for offseason activity.
You have eliminated 90% of my offseason posting by doing this. Fine by me. You and @niremetal can do the heavy math/cap rule lifting
I would only add that the typical sign & trade means you take back about 1/2 the salary you send away in the 1st yr of the contract. So if Joe’s new deal started at $16 mil, we could take back about $8 mil in 2010-11 season salary. It’s due to the Base Year Compensation rules. In the Lewis sign & trade, I think Seattle got a big trade exception instead of players due to Orlando being way under the cap at that time. Otherwise it would have meant getting back about 1/2 of Lewis’s 1st year salary in that new contract.
For all the folks that didn’t look into the Larry Coon link, they are unlikely to have an appreciation for the complexity of NBA salay cap rules. Coon is an odd person to follow on Twitter. He cannot be contained by 140 character responses.
The quickest summary of all this Joe or no Joe discussion comes down to replacing Joe most likely gets you a player that makes Marvin’s money (if you look at the average of his current contract.)
Maybe the bigger question for the fans is How much do you expect the ownership to spend to get better? I think some folks forget that there is a business aspect to a team. The ASG cannot lose money forever.
Hawks get flushed
May 20th, 2010
7:15 am
hey hey orlando like the hawks no class to and cleveland also as for J.J Joe Johnson he worth 45illion else where we need a player to play as for Josh smith he never did.for Us he worth 3.95 cents to us with his berated of Fans here.Joe Johnson will sign with cleveland cause labran James will be a boston celtic next season for 8 years at 74 million dollars!
O'Brien
May 20th, 2010
7:16 am
@northcyde,
“But to be honest, most of the fan base was cool with bringing back Bibby, Zaza, and Marvin, and thought each one got either a fair deal, or was slightly overpaid”.
Some of us were open to Jarrett Jack as a possible alternative. He is younger and cheaper than Bibby, and his defense is a lot better (although he is not quite the shooter). Ramon Sessions was also mentioned as a possible alternative. But the Hawks did not explore any options.
Fair enough. Most of us were okay with them coming back. The problem we have, is Bibby got a third year GUARANTEED (should have been a third year team option), and Marvin’s contract at ~$7.5 mil annually is high, especially since it looks like Sund bid against himself, instead of waiting on the market like he did with Josh and Chills.
@Najeh,
Other teams find guys at value price (or guys who exceed their contract value), but the Hawks cant seem to do it (except for Flip maybe). Wesley Matthews, Anthony Morrow, Will Bynum etc.
Jamario Moon signed for $3 mil. Magic got Petrius for $5.5 mil when they signed him.
What do we do? Give Marvin $7.5 mil (while not working out a deal with Chills). Hopefully, another coach will find a way to get Marvin motivated and involved, so his value to the team (and his trade value will increase).
If the Hawks can give a phone interview to Demopoulos, maybe they can give one to Tom Thibodeau too (if Boston allows it).
Peter
May 20th, 2010
7:28 am
This statement is funny…….”If you look at our team, we’ve assembled a team where we try to stay away from bad contracts.”
Please someone explain Marvin Williams then ?
Reality Bites
May 20th, 2010
7:47 am
Joe Johnson is worth whatever the Hawks can get for him in a trade. He quit in the playoffs. He’s a quitter! He not only let down his own team and the fans but then threw insults at the fans. Johnson will no longer be tolerated in Atlanta. Johnson is a quitter and does not have a champion’s heart! Trade him as soon as possible!
governor404
May 20th, 2010
7:54 am
Hold on Hawk fans, are you watching the playoffs?You have to form your teams to beat and compete with the elite, first on defense, it is imperative to have at least 3 legitimate big men not some blown up undersized pf(s) to compete with the lakers, celts and magic. Second, teams that rely on spot up stand still shooters i.e. the magic and cavs cannot win. So you must have players than can create on their own against focused defenses, enter JJ and Jamal, they must be retained if you want to have a chance at winning in the playoffs. Dalembert, Haywood or Oden must be added to the front line mix to compete and lastly Teague must be allowed to develop into the penetrating, quick pg that is Rondo in order to have a chance at winning the title. P.S. let Mark Jackson coach the team.
oldfart
May 20th, 2010
7:55 am
Woody in the end couldn’t get him to listen and do you hire a coach to his liking or do you let him go packing and hire a coach that can build a TEAM. I have no desire to see a ME player get paid the big bucks. His performance in the playoffs and reaction to the justifiable treatment by the fans says it all. Don’t let the the door his ya Joe.
G'Vegas Dawg
May 20th, 2010
8:02 am
DOOOOOOO-DOOOOOOOOO! That’s what he’s worth. Just like he told us, we don’t need him to show up either. Hit the damn bricks son!
Morrus
May 20th, 2010
8:03 am
Curiously, in a supposed anti-incumbent year, most of the departing are not retiring but seeking higher office. We may recycle more than we replace. The bad news is that a frustrating 114 seats still have but one contestant. Two of them aren’t even incumbents, meaning they will affect state policy without being vetted by voters. And I have to think that we’d be better off if many had run instead for the Legislature — and cut down on the number running unopposed. Georgia’s problems are numerous. They aren’t going away. There’s too much stale thinking at the Capitol, on both sides of the aisle. New voices would be welcome.
JSS
May 20th, 2010
8:22 am
@ Davenpoop
You’ve finally hit the hammer on the nail… It is about “quality depth!” The Hawks have failed miserably at two things. 1. That our abject failure in being able to take advantage of the charity that is the Draft Lottery has left the cupboard bare. Billy Knight just made a mess of it, only 1 true draft lottery success: Al Horford… 2. We have no track record of using our mid level exceptions or low level UFA signings well at all… Bless Joe Smith, Mo Evans and Flip Murray; but they are indicative of our ash heap approach to filling our bench… We can’t keep doing that…
Dokter
May 20th, 2010
8:25 am
Someone should ask Micheal Gearon and the other ASG partners what they do with the $9M per year Philips Electronics pays for the naming rights to Philips arena. That contract runs for about 9 more years @$9M per.
Mr. Phil
May 20th, 2010
8:33 am
Mike, the scenario you suggest is true only because the CBA is designed not to protect teams from losing star players but to punish those who want to part with an aging player. The CBA is designed to make sure bad teams stay bad.
Section 303
May 20th, 2010
8:34 am
I’m ready to move along without Joe Johnson. The guy is not worth a max deal. He just isn’t. The Hawks cannot let Joe Johnson hold the organization at ransom. Max deal guys do not rip the fans and continually fail to make crucial baskets.
And, really, if Joe Johnson does not want to come back here then he can go F himself. I really don’t care. As long as he does not get a max deal from the Hawks, I don’t care what he does.
Section 303
May 20th, 2010
8:36 am
JSS, I would not lump Flip Murray into that group of scrap heaps you mentioned. Flip was a really good player when he was here. I would love to have him back, in fact.
G-Money
May 20th, 2010
8:40 am
Mr.Gearon please take your head out of the sand for a few minutes and come into reality. When your group took over control of the Hawks, ostensibly what you had was an expansion franchise. Billy Knight gutted out any contracts of value, and started rebuilding with the draft. With the exception of the Joe Johnson and Speedy Claxton contracts, this team was rebuilt through the draft. Please spare us the nonsense of your shrewdness, and we stay away from bad contracts hogwash, the reality of how this organization is run is summed up in your statement about how you will “react” to Joe’s free agency this summer. I noticed there is no plan to be proactive. Nothing innovative, or creative, let’s see where the market takes us, and then we will react. You were fortunate with Josh Smith, this time you may end up getting your head handed to you with Joe Johnson.
Daniel
May 20th, 2010
9:11 am
I think the issue of Joe’s contract is still really going to be about the length. I would be reluctant to give that 5th year.
niremetal
May 20th, 2010
9:18 am
Truthspitter/Grandad,
You cannot manipulate the cap rules by signing another team’s free agent first and then signing your own using the Bird exception. The Hawks cannot have the cap space to re-sign another team’s free agent unless they renounce JJ and Childress. Once you renounce a player, that renouncement cannot be revoked. So it is impossible for the Hawks to use their cap space and then sign JJ or Childress too.
wuffe
May 20th, 2010
9:18 am
I dont like the way this is going. If we sign this silent warrior Joe J. , we’re going to be a team stuck in mediocrety for a long time. Replace him with a younger more athletic guard , Rudy Gay and give Him near the Max . He’s more explosive and has a higher upside. And yes definitely go for the sixers center..
Dalembert C
Horford PF
Josh Smith SF
Rudy Gay SG
Teague PG
Crawford bench …. This team would have given the Magic fits…faster at the point ,,, faster at SG..a real center.
vava74
May 20th, 2010
9:23 am
There isn’t a single person in the blog (slight exaggeration, I know) which makes a trade, signing or re-signing suggestion thinking about DEFENSE.
I thought that the series which BOS had against CLE and is having now against ORL would “teach” something to the fans, but it obviously doesn’t.
JJ is an excellent two-way player. No, he is not Lebron on offense, but he can easily average 20 points for the next 3 and maybe 4 years of his career AND he is a very good perimeter defender.
Most of the names which fly around address how we would be replacing his 20ppg, but NONE address the need for good defense.
If a new coach brings in an offensive scheme (anything will be better than Woody) and that scheme, as it is logic, will make JJ catch and shoot a lot more than dribble and shoot, his longevity and his shooting average will both improve.
Also, JJ had another terrible playoffs run because something was really rotten within the roster and he lost his faith in what we were doing (all of them did it).
During the 4 first games against MIL he was playing at ALL NBA level, averaging 25ppg 7rpb 5apg and shooting close to .500.
He sulked and MIL also adjusted their defense to our “scheme” and by the time we reached the ORL series, JJ had to face a team which all season long caused him tremendous problems.
With an offensive scheme which did not command him to dribble into double and triple teams and Howard’s help defense, he would have been a lot more productive.
It seems that no one really heard and understood Hubie Brown’s interview after all.
Mike a con & ham
May 20th, 2010
9:31 am
Hey mr con&ham why dont you do a story about how woodson wanted Chris Paul and Brandon Roy but Sund-of-A-Bytch insisted on Marvin William and Sheldon.
May be you could report about the in fighting over the need to spend the money on quality players verses Sund-of-A Bytch’s insistence that when dont need first rate talent to win championships.
By the way JJ is out of here! I dont blame him. Let the rebuilding begin. Avery is feminine talking coach who is not as good as woodson who couldnt get his team to a championship with more talent than the hawks currently have. Woodson whopped Doc Rivers repeatedly over the past few year with less talent and any assistant coach would be an experiment at best. So how are you upgrading the Hawks?
Sund has proven that he will never take a team to championship but will leave a team in a good but not great status just like he did Dallas.
Let the rebuilding begin!
The same experts who picked the hawks 4-8 seed (they were right on the money although Woodson over achieved to 3rd seed), are now predicting the hawks will be in the rebuilding process for the next 4-5 years.
Thanks Con&Ham, Thanks Sund-Of-A-Bytch!
PMC
May 20th, 2010
9:32 am
One could argue that a significant problem with the NBA are those guarenteed albatross contracts for players making a lot more money than they are worth. Owners are paying the money to either steal players or to retain them and they play just good enough for long enough to get that contract… then they seem to let most of the effort fall off.
Mike a con & ham
May 20th, 2010
9:33 am
*We dont need first rate talent
PMC
May 20th, 2010
9:33 am
This team was doomed to this because Billy Knight made the wrong moves far too many times at the top of the draft.
Idiot Watch
May 20th, 2010
9:37 am
No one has said on this site “DEFENSE WINS BALL GAMES”. No one has said that we n eed a FREAKING DEFENSIVE CENTER NOT NAMED HORFORD!
DUH!
THE TONE
May 20th, 2010
9:38 am
is anyone else scared that joe may be the type that gets the big contract and then coasts the rest of his career ? its a legit question he sure didn’t have any fire in the playoffs when he should have been auditioning for a huge pay day.
Idiot Watch
May 20th, 2010
9:38 am
BILLY KNIGHT HAS LONG BEEN OUT OF THE EQUATION. THIS IS SUNDOFABYTCH’S DOING
Idiot Watch
May 20th, 2010
9:40 am
I wont blame jj one bit because Sun-of-a-bytch has fccked up his chance to compete at the championship level which is why he came here.
Wisdom
May 20th, 2010
9:44 am
FIRE SUND
Hawks73
May 20th, 2010
9:55 am
There’s nothing more exciting to know that on of the CEO’s of the Hawks states that they will “react” to to market conditions once J.J. is offered a contract…GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Furthermore to state that “We have piled tens of millions of dollars into this product to make it good. But it’s also up to fans to show up and see your team and support your team. I think we’ve given them a product as exciting as any in the league. You want people to be there, you want them to support your team and be proud of it. I think we have a team that deserves that.” This is merely a setup/excuse being laid in front of us “fans” as a precursor to the lack of moves the Hawks will make this offseason. I’m calling it right now, the Hawks will let J.J. go and try to replace him with more “fiscally” responsible player(s)/moves that will justify their lack of dedication.
I wish they would either bring in some investors/partners that have some cash or just sell this team (to an owner that can be “fiscally” responsible and also proactive to make this team better.)
Najeh Davenpoop
May 20th, 2010
10:05 am
From Bill Simmons’ column today:
“5:05: On consecutive possessions, Glen Davis stops Howard on a low-post move with no help, then takes a charge from Nelson. Celtics by eight. And by the way, no matter how this series plays out, we now know the blueprint for beating the 2009-10 Magic: defend Howard one-on-one (and use your fouls on him), stay home on the 3-point shooters and dare their perimeter guys to beat people off the dribble.”
I believe we all came to this conclusion about two months ago when the Hawks beat the Magic, didn’t we?
Parker Pounder69
May 20th, 2010
10:09 am
July first needs to get here quick. PAT SUMMITT
Dejay
May 20th, 2010
10:23 am
Hey NC, good use of the Portland analogy as to how folks should support the Hawks here. And those folks have always supported the Blazers despite competition from the NFL, MLB…oh wait…they don’t have an NFL, MLB, or NHL team in their town, do they???
Comparing our fanbase who has at least three other pro sporting options (and that’s not even counting college football) at their disposal to a one-horse town like Portland is like comparing Churchill Downs to a doggy track in Alabama.
Our fans need to grow up? Really, Northcyde? Our fans have grown up alright. They grew up knowing that no matter how many games the Hawks win in the regular season, by the time the conference finals roll around (where the ‘big boys’ come to play), they’ll be at home watching them with you and me. Have they been wrong yet?
Being just ‘good’ may stoke the masses in OKC or San Antonio, where the NBA is the only game in town. Here, you have more to do on a Wednedsay night when Kobe isn’t playing at Philips. And if you’re not a major contender for the ring and you don’t have a transcendent superstar to lead you to that ring, you’ll never see the casual fans in this town step foot in the building. Just ask the Braves how well ticket sales would’ve been if they would’ve kept Jason Heyward in Gwinnett.
If they want to pull in those casual fans, they have to acquire a superstar-level player and get beyond the second round. Every NBA fan in town knows that in order to be taken as a serious team, you have to have one; those Detroit teams from a few years ago are the lone exception to the rule and we all know that Marvin and Teague has a ways to go before being compared to Tayshaun Prince and Chauncey Billups in their primes.
It isn’t our fault that we can smell a phony from miles away and decide to stay home instead. You look up the term in Webster’s dictionary and find the Hawk logo printed right next to it.
Ramon
May 20th, 2010
10:27 am
Najeh, yea we did. I don’t think it was a person here who advice the Hawks to double Dwight.
JSS
May 20th, 2010
10:41 am
@ Section 303
It was not to demean Flip’s game, it was the matter of how we came to acquire him in the first place (in August of 2008 after the Childress exodus). Moreover, the Hawks further compounded the last off season when it was a Evans/Murray choice…
@Davenpoop
No, it was a consensus amongst any one who’d watch the Magic’s shooters torch the Hawks!
doc
May 20th, 2010
10:42 am
northcyde, as far as the fans are concerned 22 of 30 in spending 18th of 30 in attendance after having moinor league basketball for ten years. i still think the fans are winning. ralith if you arent in markets like boston. new york philly chicago you might get screwed. in regards to jj it seems we have to lie back and accept whatever comes. i hope the ASG dont try to get to cute on this one. maybe they ought to offer contingency packages, the fans cost is based on the teams competence and owners willingness to spend. oh yeah that is what we do now in a way isnt it?
our team played like losers because they were overmatched in spite of our third seed. we played like an 18th seed (fans rating) lucky to be there. this isnt the only game in town. atlantic station seemed mighty crowed during the playoffs during the milwaukee game. i wonder why some of those folks werent at the game paying full price? there is a lot of other entertainment out there to compete with.
get a winner, sure winner developed over the years gearon then see what happens. gearon as an owner sounds like the fan who expects the owners to go out and get dwade, labron bosh and amare this year all because they are unrestricted free agents and they have blinders on. come spend money then i will give you a better team is gearon’s motto. both are just as unrealistic.
MC, good stuff. BTW you have two very good capologists in niremetal and manny t at your service on the blog any time you need them. somehow they get it and never lead us astray. anyone who has kept up here for long knew most of this info of course not down t hairy details like you put out here.
bottom line, sign jj and then deal with the consequences later. cant be any worse than overlooking, deron, cp3 and brandon roy within two years.
second bottom line get a coach the players and fans can have some trust in.
there you are gearon the solution to all our problems. simple stuff. reminder gearon, KISS principle applies and dont get cute. be smart.
JSS
May 20th, 2010
10:47 am
And that was way back last off season!
northcyde
May 20th, 2010
10:48 am
truthspitter
May 20th, 2010
2:49 am
Your wrong, if the cap is going to be $56 million which has been reported then they will have 10.8 million to work with after they make Mo opt out. They currently have 47.6 million tied up for next year, if Mo opts out of his $2.5 million contract that will leave them with $45.1 mill or so on books. They will have $10.8 or so million to spend. They could sign Rudy Gay to a contract comparable to what Josh and Danny Granger are getting which started with about $10 there 1st year. They could then go over the cap to sign there own guy Joe. I hate when reporters, writers, and even the front office lie to fans, they are lying if they say what I type is not true I do my research.
********************
He didn’t lie Truthsplitter . . . you just didn’t pay attention to detail or you still don’t understand the salary cap rules.
First, you didn’t add the money that our draft picks will make in 2010, which will equal a little over 2 million total. And they have to be added to what we have available to spend, because those draft picks have cap holds as well, even if they aren’t signed immediately. MC directly told you that in his analysis. That’s how he came up with the 8.1 million figure.
And he, and then Najeh told you right as well. The only way we get to that 8.1 million figure, is to renounce the rights of EVERY unrestricted and restricted free agent the Hawks have. That includes ( JJ, Childress, Mo Evans, Mario West, Joe Smith, Jason Collins, Randolph Morris,and Othella Hunter ).
And once we do that, we lose the ability to go over the salary cap to re-sign ANY of those players.
Then, you’re in a situation in which you have to 1) hope free agents will want to come here, and 2) hope people don’t outbid you for free agents.
8 million probably won’t be enough to outbid somebody for Rudy Gay. Then you’ll have to hope that unrestricted free agents will want to come here to play. Last year, guys like Jason Collins and Joe Smith were bottom of the barrel big men that were left, after all the other big men signed elsewhere. The Hawks tried to sell those moves as being helpful to us. In retrospect, they probably would’ve been better off giving Solomon Jones another 1 year deal ( if he would’ve taken it . . which he wouldn’t have . . seeing that he got a 2 yr – 3 million deal from Indiana ).
Make sure you fully grasp a situation, before you go out and call a man a liar. Mike C. correctly and thoroughly explained the situation to you.
northcyde
May 20th, 2010
10:52 am
My bad . .. that was niremetal, not najeh, that told you right. But there are many people who understand our situation, even when people refuse to understand it.
northcyde
May 20th, 2010
10:57 am
And once we do that, we lose the ability to go over the salary cap to re-sign ANY of those players.
We CAN re-sign those players once we go over the cap, but we’ll be limited to using the mid-level exception ( MLE ) or the lower-level exception ( LLE ). We won’t be able to sign them for any amount that we want, once we go over the salary cap.
So that would essentially take us out of the running for signing an even close to star level player, once we reach the salary cap line. Whatever good player we sign, it would have to be during the time in which we were below the line.
CraigEhlo
May 20th, 2010
10:58 am
Eveyone keeps saying get Avery Johnson. Johnson guided the Mavs to a 60-win series and a high seeding in the playoffs (#1). Avery Johnson’s team LOST a playoff series after being up 2-0 in the series. If Averys team had one just one more game and gone up 3-0 they would have won that series. But they didnt and that indicates to me that Avery Johnson couldnt motivate the Mavs to close out the series. Avery might not be the right guy for the Atlanta job. I believe the best guy for the Atlanta job is Hubie Brown. Hubie knows basketball at least as good as anybody and EVERYTIME I HEAR HUBIE DOING PLAY-BY-PLAY ANALYIST WORK, MY BASKETBALL IQ GOES UP EVERY TIME I LISTEN TO HUBIE. Hubie once coached for the Hawks back in the early 80s, however, Hubie Brown never worked with a Hawks team as talented as they are now. Back then Hubie had guys with low basketball IQs: Fast Eddie Johnson, Terry Furlow, John Drew, Wayne “Tree” Rollins (pure knuckelheads), but now he would be working some of the best young stars to ever come into the NBA: Jamal Crawford (the assasin); “Big” Al Horford (mini Wilt Chamberlain); Josh Smith (the skywalker), Joe Johnson (the first ballot hall of famer) and Marvin Williams (missing in action). The Hawks are athletic, talented and I would really like to see if Hubie can transform Marvin into a top NBA talent. If anyone could do that it would be Hubie Brown.
Jerry West
May 20th, 2010
11:02 am
resign Joe, draft Alabi, peace out Mo, MLE Matt Barnes (or some role player of that ilk who can play and has some attitude), biennial the Flipster. happy summer.
Samuel
May 20th, 2010
11:04 am
I don’t have a problem with Signing Joe Johnson, in a trade or keep basis. But keep in mind that the Hawks- Have to aquire a hall a famer. A superstar if you will, and some good role players who like the big spot light. This NBA league has proven time after time, that there’s a season and then the playoffs. You have to go to the next level and handle the intense pressure….
Jerry West
May 20th, 2010
11:13 am
Craig,
You’re Hubie Brown. You have health issues that caused you to leave coaching just a few years ago. Do you really want to subject yourself to motivating these guys on a nightly basis? Where’s the UPSIDE?
A.J Price
May 20th, 2010
11:26 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJfEV2tU_pk&feature=related
MikeMitchell
May 20th, 2010
11:27 am
I know who should be the next coach of the Atlanta Hawks. I know he is not a natural born leader, but I believe he should be offered the job because he came to Atlanta when no other great superstar would. JOE JOHNSON SHOULD BE OFFERED THE COACHING JOB FOR THE ATLANTA HAWKS. JOE SHOULD BE MADE A PLAYER-COACH AND GIVEN THE JOB. THE REASON TO DO THIS IS TWOFOLD: #1) THIS WILL CAUSE JOE TO OPEN UP AND BE MORE VOCAL AS A LEADER, AND #2) THIS IS A WAY TO RE-SIGN JOE TO A GOOD CONTRACT AND GIVE HIM A RAISE AT THE SAME TIME SINCE HE NOW WILL HAVE COACHING DUTIES. I know nobody else has explored this option, but I think Joe deserves SOMETHING FOR COMING TO ATLANTA WHEN YOU COULDNT GET THE TOWN DRUNK TO COME PLAY FOR ATLANTA. Reward Joe Johnson by making him player-coach of the Hawks. Coaching problem resovled!
A.J Price
May 20th, 2010
11:27 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY5Hh9SAEjc&feature=related
A.J Price > Eric Bledsoe
May 20th, 2010
11:32 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdgIqKyskHw
Domonique
May 20th, 2010
11:35 am
If the sixers take Evan turner could dat open a door for a sign and trade with Joe Johnson and Andre igudala
Hawkeye
May 20th, 2010
11:36 am
The NBA Salary Cap is a big joke! The Larry Bird Rule and mid level exceptions are crazy! How bout a hard cap? The Hawks will be in trouble if Joe bolts for nothing in return! It will take a big trade, sign the right free agents or get lucky with a draft pick!
northcyde
May 20th, 2010
11:39 am
Dejay . . . I hear what you’re saying. But you act like that Atlanta fans are ENTITLED to something, even if they don’t rabidly go out and support the product. The reality of professional sports is that a fan’s particular team is probably NOT going to win a championship, unless all of the right ingredients come together. And for most teams, it takes a few years to even get to championship level, even after you become good.
Sports fans in Atlanta haven’t won nearly enough to have the sort of apathy that they have toward their sports teams.
Portland is a GREAT basketball town, there’s no denying that. But let me illustrate what I’m saying. Portland’s last good year, before everything started to go south for them, was back in 2002 – 03, when they won 50 games but lost in the 1st round. That year, they were 6th in attendance and drew a little over 796,000 fans. So let’s look at these 2 elements: wins . . and how it correlated with attendance.
02 – 03: 50 wins . . 796,000+ ( 6th in the NBA ) . . . 97% capacity
03 – 04: 41 wins . . 684,000+
04 – 05: 27 wins . . 680,000+
05 – 06: 21 wins . . 617,000+ ( DEAD LAST IN THE NBA ) . . . 75% capacity
So let’s stop here for a moment. Like most NBA cities, when the team is winning, the fans come out. When the team goes in the tank, the team loses support. Even in a rabid basketball city like Portland. When that team went into the tank, combined with all of the off the court issues the “Jailblazers” were getting in to, the fans stop going to games. That’s pretty much the point at which Portland decides to blow everything up. So now let’s see the progress of the Blazers as they got better.
06 – 07: 32 wins . . . 670,000+
07 – 08: 41 wins . . . 801,000+ ( they were so happy to be relevant again )
08 – 09: 54 wins . . . 841,000+
09 – 10: 50 wins . . . 840,000+ ( 3rd in NBA ) . . 102% capacity
So as you see, when that team was sorry, the Blazer fans didn’t blindly support that team. But as the team got better, their fans came out in droves to see them.
OK . . let’s look at the Hawks during that same time period. We didn’t have the good squad in 02 – 03, so our attendance numbers will be lower. But let’s see how ATL’s fans have reacted to the Hawks success over the past 8 years.
02 – 03: 35 wins . . 528,000+
03 – 04: 28 wins . . 565,000+
04 – 05: 13 wins . . 592,000+
In each of those years, the Hawks were either next to last or last in attendance. It’s funny to see attendance go up by almost 65,000 between 02 – 03 and 04 – 05. But even with that, you’re still talking about us barely drawing over 14,000 a game in that 04 – 05 season. But we were sorry. The low attendance numbers were to be expected. Now let’s look at the next 5 years:
05 – 06: 26 wins . . . 617,000+
06 – 07: 30 wins . . . 639,000+
07 – 08: 37 wins . . . 667,000+
08 – 09: 45 wins . . . 686,000+
09 – 10: 53 wins . . . 678,000+
Even though attendance was still in the bottom half of the league, we did see attendance rise for 7 straight years, which is good. But this season, we saw attendance dip? We have the best season out of all of those years, but the fans don’t come more? It’s almost amazing to see Portland draw as many people in a 32 win season, than we did in a 53 win season here.
But the people in Atlanta will continue to come up with excuse after excuse as to why they don’t attend games, even though there is a very good HOME product on the floor these days. When I talked about a “championship fan base”, that is what I was talking about. Does this fan base show the ability to come out and support a good team, as they progressively get better? In ATL, you’d have to say . . “eh, maybe, maybe not.”
When are the excuses going to stop, and the fans put it in their minds to simply go to the games to support good teams?
They have us drafting him?
May 20th, 2010
11:43 am
http://www.nbadraft.net/2010mock_draft
I’ll roll with it!
THEKINGPATIENCE
May 20th, 2010
11:45 am
I SAY SCREW THAT AND GO FOR BROKE AND LET JJ GO AND THEN SIGN LEBRON OR CB4 OR DWADE TO A MAX CONTRACT PAY THE LUXURY TAX AND JUST KEEP WINNING CHAMPION WHY YOU DO THAT AND WHEN YOU CANT DO IT ANYMORE WHO’LL CARE CAUSE WE’LL BEEN DONE WON FIVE OR SIX CHAMPIONSHIP BY THEN
KentPaulsen
May 20th, 2010
11:54 am
Dont sign LaBron because LaBron will BREAK THE BANK. LaBron is perceived as this “larger than life” player but in the playoffs the lasat two seasons you saw LaBron shrink to the size of a mouse. LaBron is more HYPE than anything else. Contrast LaBron with Kobe Bryant. There is no comparison. Kobe should have won another MVP award this year and was robbed again. Kobe scored 40 points the other night and he did that because his team needed him to. Kobe has his pulse on exactly what his team needs from him and Kobe delivers it time after time after time. Kobes goal when he first came into the leage at 17 years old was to be the GREATEST PLAYER IN NBA HISTORY. Right now, Kobe is not too far off that goal (NO DISREPSECT TO MICHAEL JORDAN). If Kobe were to get four more championship rings and finish with eight (along with all the stats that will go with that), you could certainly make a case that Kobe is the greatest of all times. Additionally, if Kobe plays five more years Kobe may finish the #1 scorer in points of all times.
TROTTINGHOME
May 20th, 2010
11:55 am
Send this article to the writers above MC…and PS them…
Do your home work before you write.
O'Brien
May 20th, 2010
11:59 am
I have a marketing idea for the ASG.
We know that Atlanta fans are motivated by big names (Wade, Kobe, LeBron etc). From a marketing standpoint, what about exploring Tracy McGrady (depending on his contract demands), and if he is willing to play off the bench.
Its just a marketing idea, so dont think I am rooting for us to sign TMac because of his value on the court. I am looking at it based on his off the court value. And if he is able to give us anything on the court, great. he could be another scorer off the bench (if he has anything left). And you can never have enough scorers.
northcyde
May 20th, 2010
11:59 am
vava74
May 20th, 2010
9:23 am
There isn’t a single person in the blog (slight exaggeration, I know) which makes a trade, signing or re-signing suggestion thinking about DEFENSE.
I thought that the series which BOS had against CLE and is having now against ORL would “teach” something to the fans, but it obviously doesn’t.
*********************
Vava . . you hit it right on the money. This team has to improve defensively if it wants to compete on that next level. Putting the offense in the hands of a “leader-type” PG who can run the show, would help us out tremendously on offense. Let’s just hope that Teague will b as good as some people think he can be.
But until we address our defense our defensive issues ( mainly at the point and on the interior ), it won’t matter how well our offense plays. We’ll still not match up with Orlando and still run into problems vs Cleveland ( if Lebron goes back to them )
In these playoffs, what you are seeing is that if you don’t match up well with a team ( or if a team matches up well against you ), you’re going to lose in these playoffs. Boston has the defensive personnel to match up with the Magic. Because of that, they look horrible on offense.
On the flip side, they have no one to stop Rondo ( or Pierce for that matter ). The very thing that was a strength against us ( ball movement to get the open man the shot ), is the very thing killing the Magic now ( the inability of multiple people to create AND MAKE their own shot when that ball movement is taken away ). This is why our ISO offense works against Boston and why our switching defense can contain Rondo. But both of those things were negatives vs Orlando.
Even with Phoenix, it’s the same thing. The Lakers have talented offensive big people. Phoenix doesn’t have big people that can play defense. So the Lakers are basically pounding the ball inside because they know the Suns can’t stop them. Then when they load up trying to stop the inside people, Kobe does his thing. And the Suns can’t do much about this. Their only hope is to be almost pefect on offense and hope they outscore the Lakers ( or hope Kobe and/or Gasol have off nights ).
george smiley
May 20th, 2010
12:04 pm
I guess the big question on Phil Jackson is whether some team other than the Lakers will offer to pay $12+M for his services.
It is a reasonable amount if you think about it. If Jackson was in Cleveland or Atlanta, one of those teams might still be playing ball and not golfing. He really does know how to get a team ready for the post-season, and he isn’t as expensive as it looks because you aren’t still paying him and a replacement like in Chicago and elsewhere.
So what do you think?
JuniorBridgeman
May 20th, 2010
12:05 pm
I am so glad the Orlando Magic are failing in their series with the Celtics. When the Magic obliterated the Hawks they were SO ARROGANT in their press conferences. Dwight Howard, the big muscular center for the Magic said, in the next round all we have to do is play our game for 48 minutes and we will beat anybody. Boy was he wrong. I knew the Magic could be defended and beaten. All you have to do to beat the Magic is a) defend the 3-pt shooters at the 3pt circle with a hand in their face and b) keep dwight howard at least 7-10 feet away from the basket. If he is in close where he can dunk the ball, drive him away from the basket and Howard is not creative enough to score from that distance. That strategy shuts down the Magic completely which is precisely what the Cs have done.
darrell starks
May 20th, 2010
12:08 pm
Bring in avery as the coach push hard for a sign and trade for rudy gay.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!
northcyde
May 20th, 2010
12:11 pm
O’Brien . . I guess it is what it is with the people in Atlanta. If that’s what they need, then I guess that’s what the ASG has to do, even if T-Mac is a walking MASH unit. Shoot, might as well go get Allen Iverson as well.
Or here’s one . . . go get Nate Robinson.
He definitely doesn’t help our defensive issues at the point, and he really can’t run the position. But he is fast, can jump out the gym, and has shown the ability to flat out take over games when he has it going. If those are the kinds of players that Atlanta will root for, then maybe they should bring in Nate during the offseason.
Shoot . . just run a 3-headed monster at the point, with Teague, Nate, and Bibby all getting around 16 minutes a game.
o.O-Mac-Town -Macon, Georgia- Westsider-O.o
May 20th, 2010
12:13 pm
Sorry folks, I’m not buying the idea some people have that the Hawks are basically a lock to take steps back if JJ leaves us. People are acting like this man is Kobe, Wade or Lebron.
JJ is a good player, though not a superstar. JJ has been a no show in the playoffs. Other teams have “role players” that show up more than him in big games. With our ISO-Joe offense under Woody, look how many 4th quarter chokes we had relying on “ISO-Joe.” As for his stats, they are good, but take into account how much he had the ball in his hands in Woodson’s offense. Lots of guys numbers would look better on paper if they had that much freedom.
If we get a coach that actually has an offensive playbook and can make adjustments, along with adding needed pieces here and there (not even necessarily “big names”..just decent pieces that can give productive contributions and fill their role)…The team could easily be just as good or better with out JJ.
hawksfan23
May 20th, 2010
12:16 pm
i say we sign garret siller again, get sergy gladyr who won the european 3 point championship and is over 45 percent, keep joe smith, let morris and collins walk, sign salmons with the mle, and if jj walks we will still be a playoff contender, but it would help if jj stayed. just think of a team with jj, salmons, and crawford as scorers that would be insane.
darrell starks
May 20th, 2010
12:19 pm
Sign sign joe 5year 70mill trade marvin, chill, for rudy gay.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
Hawks Suck
May 20th, 2010
12:20 pm
Let’s resign Joe Johnson, but wait how many points did he have in the 2nd round? That’s great idea!
Ramon
May 20th, 2010
12:20 pm
Am I the only one who’s jealous that the Nets owner Prokhorov bought the Nets and not the Hawks? Imagine how it would be to have the 37th richest man in the world as your team’s owner.
darrell starks
May 20th, 2010
12:22 pm
Avery will groom teague into a good point guard.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!
terrell
May 20th, 2010
12:23 pm
Stay away from bad contracts my azz. What about Marvin, Zaza, and Bibby? Awful contracts.
darrell starks
May 20th, 2010
12:26 pm
The big Q can josh, horford get the job done down low i think so specialy if we just add some pieces of the bench.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!
Grandad
May 20th, 2010
12:26 pm
nire:
I don’t pretend to understand the CBA.
I’ve been to L.C.’s site & read til I had
twice as many questions as before I started.
My “eyes bled” reading MC’s article.
*[borrowing his metaphor]
I was only commenting on a piece I read
about Knicks & how they were [yes, gonna try]
a maneuver to sign two + keep Lee.
Bless ‘em if they can.
By the way, anytime a CBA question comes
up on this board or wherever, I always refer
‘whomever’ to you.
[MannyT has pinch hit nicely on occasion]
Did & or do you still post on Hwkssquwk?
I used to be a reader only & I seem to
remember your analysis over there.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 20th, 2010
12:29 pm
O’Brien, I think you are selling the ATL fans short. Yes, people here are fickle and superstar-starved, but I hink they have more basketball knowledge than they get credit for, and most of them realize that T-Mac hasn’t been a superstar for a few years now.
But I do think if the Hawks traded rosters with Miami and started winning 45 games a year and getting bounced in the first round, attendance would go way up because of Wade.
What about Sherron Collins in the 2nd Round?
May 20th, 2010
12:31 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e2eIeQQH1Y&playnext_from=TL&videos=IpMqE_ZgTnM&feature=rec-LGOUT-exp_stronger_r2-2r-14-HM
Ty Lawson any Better?
Ramon: Parcherov(sp?) Scares me
May 20th, 2010
12:33 pm
Like he’d execute his employees or something. Creepy. Reminds me of theat dude from Rocky IV. Drago or whatever his name was.
darrell starks
May 20th, 2010
12:33 pm
ATLANTA HAWKS 2010 ROSTER COACH AVERY
STARTER TEAGUE, JOE, RUDY, JOSH, HORFORD
BENCH BIBBY, JAMAL, AL HARRINGTON, ZAZA, SOLOMON ALABI
RESERVE MORRIS, MOE
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
WhEre the hell did that
May 20th, 2010
12:34 pm
SECOND ROUND PICK WE GOT FROM HOUSTON GO!!!??? WE NEED THAT!!
niremetal
May 20th, 2010
12:36 pm
Why do we “need” a second round pick? Second round picks are worth about as much as the gum I stepped on during my trip to work. Most second rounders never even sniff an NBA rotation.
Whre the hell did that
May 20th, 2010
12:45 pm
LETS NOT FORGET ABOUT THAT OTHER 5′11 PG WE PASSED ON IN 2005 WHO ALSO WENT TO CRANE HS WILL BYNUM SMH. WE SHOULD GIVE COLLINS A SHOT.
ALSO, 6′7 DARRINGTON HOBSON OUT OF NEW MEXICO IS GOING TO BE A REAL SLEEPER PICK. HE WENT TO HS IN DECATUR, GA.
DEXTER PITTMAN IS DEAD WEIGHT
Ramon
May 20th, 2010
12:45 pm
Yea but the dude from Rocky was a good guy, it was his managers who were ruthless. He probably got killed when he got back to USSR.
Gamer
May 20th, 2010
12:53 pm
It would be great if Smoking Gun Joe Johnson re-sign with Hawks for a workable deal and a win-win deal for both sides.
Avery Johnson at the helm, an improve Jeff Teague at point and a good solid center to go along side Horford and J. Smoove sends championship aromas.
Grandad
May 20th, 2010
12:56 pm
vava74
“There isn’t a single person in the blog (slight exaggeration)
which makes a trade, signing or re-signing suggestion
thinking about DEFENSE.”
“(slight exaggeration)” – [Thanks G-dad]:
* Kyle Lowry
* Hasheem Thabeet
* JaVale McGee
* Andris Biedrins
* (*[Joakim Noah]*) *
* Reggie Evans
** Choice for Coach – (*[Tom Thibodeau]*)
*** All time favorite player – *Rodman
*** current favorite non-Hawk – *Battier
**** the only value I rank higher is Team/Teammate!
vava – not complainin’ about your post…”enhancing” !
“With an offensive scheme which did not command him to dribble
double and triple teams and Howard’s help defense, he would
have been a lot more productive.
It seems that no one really heard and understood Hubie Brown’s interview after all.”
I sure hope I did !
New coach – Joe may go to a new level.
Mr. Sund seems to think so.
vava:
I also think Mr. Sund, both, gets & understands “the secret”.
Big Ray
May 20th, 2010
1:01 pm
MC ,
I think we can attribute a lot of that to the following:
1. JJ’s talent
2. A certain mid round pick developing into all-star level.
3. Finally hitting big with a top 3 pick in Horford.
4. Mike Bibby…at least for a year and a half…
Grandad
May 20th, 2010
1:04 pm
nire:
1st, 2nd round or FA. ‘Brian Zoubek’.
Have a good laugh @ my expense.
I’m sold on this young fella.
Must = right coach/team/system.
Big Ray
May 20th, 2010
1:04 pm
Northcyde ,
Please don’t bring up that crap about Iverson again. I still have nightmares about blogs full of comments saying we should go get him. Yuck. As Denver and Memphis found out, Iverson minus Larry Brown equals major headache.
Don’t want Nate, either.
O'Brien
May 20th, 2010
1:12 pm
vava, northcyde,
Defense is very important. But if you dont have the personnel, it will still be an uphill battle. However, because defense is so important is one of the reasons I think Thibodeau should get an interview.
The teams he has worked for (Knicks and Boston (I dont know what Houston’s defense was like when he was there)) are usually good defensive teams. And Doc Rivers and the Boston players speak highly of him.
As for the ASG and their money, I think the max another team can offer JJ is 5 years, $93 mil (with raises). If you’re the Hawks, do you wait and let the market play out, or do you make an offer to JJ at 12:01 July 1?
Ramon
May 20th, 2010
1:13 pm
I hope to see JJ back in the Hawks lineup next season! And I still feel with this exact roster, and the addition of Haywood and Brewer the Hawks would be able to contend next season. I think if the Hawks can sign Haywood to the mid level, and Brewer to 3-4 mil a season, they will only be a shooter away (2nd round pick from last season?) from having a well put together roster.
Dejay
May 20th, 2010
1:17 pm
So North, you’re saying the fans should come out in droves because they’re a good HOME team now? You and I both know that it doesn’t work that way (well, at least I HOPE so). Portland responded the way they did because they don’t have to think about the NFL draft, aren’t concerned over how the baseball team is looking in Spring Training, and aren’t writing full-page stories over what the 4th string tailback prefers on his roast beef sandwich as opposed to here. If the Blazers are doing well, they’re coming out because they don’t have other sporting options and they don’t have a huge contingent of transients who sit home and wait on their hometown teams or a superstar to arrive in town.
And yes, we DO feel entitled to winning here. How long have we held on to our loyalty to this bunch while watching every (insert expletive here) team in the league except the Clips (I’m not counting the expansion ones in Toronto, NO, and Charlotte) advance to a conference finals in the last 35 years? At this point, I could care less if they were 41-0 at home over the last two seasons; what they do (or didn’t do) in May and June overrides that.
Everyone else has had their day in the sun; even Wizard fans can harken back to the good ‘ol days of what it felt like to win a title. Our finest hour was Bird guaranteeing a Game 7 victory over the Hawks in the second round.
When is our payoff going to come????
Ramon
May 20th, 2010
1:26 pm
Call me a hometown fan, but I think next season the Falcons, UGA, and the Hawks are each going to do something special in their respective season!
Ramon
May 20th, 2010
1:26 pm
By the way, in 3-4 seasons Mark Fox will be a GREAT hire for the Hawks if they choose to go that direction.
Diary of an "also ran team"< 500
May 20th, 2010
1:36 pm
darrell starks
May 20th, 2010
12:33 pm
ATLANTA HAWKS 2010 ROSTER COACH AVERY
STARTER TEAGUE, JOE, RUDY, JOSH, HORFORD
BENCH BIBBY, JAMAL, AL HARRINGTON, ZAZA, SOLOMON ALABI
RESERVE MORRIS, MOE
quick quiz:
how many hawks made the all NBA team?
answer:1, JJ 3rd string
how many hawks made the all Defensive team?
answer: 1 Josh Smith # 2 in the nba
What did the starting atlanta center rank in either of the above categories?
answer: he didnt, but he did rank # 18 among NBA centers for protecting the rim, (block shots)
And that is hitting it big for a number three pick?
Time to rebuild
May 20th, 2010
1:41 pm
lets start from the basis. Let first protect the rim. Let start this 5 year rebuilding project off with the most crucial element. Lets get a center.
Ken Strickland
May 20th, 2010
1:41 pm
For what it’s worth, I hope we resign JJ. All he needs is :
(1) A real PG playing next to him, especially one that can penetrate and play good DEF.
(2) A more structured half court OFF that offers more options for attacking the DEF.
(3) A HC that’s less rigid, but stern enough to hold all players accountable, more amenable to change and making adjustments, and more willing to listen and accept input.
(4) A HC that understands the overall talents of the players and the team, and recognizes the advantage of stressing that the team and its players consistently play uptempo and push the ball at every opportunity.
It would be a tremendous benefit to the team if we had an OFF system that forced the DEF to defend against the OFF, rather than certain players, which is what happens with an ISO dependent OFF. If the right adjustments are made by the new HC, the Hawks could become much much better and much more effective and competitive without having to make drastic personnel changes.
northcyde
May 20th, 2010
1:45 pm
LOL @ Ray . . . I agree. I’m just saying though. That’s what some of these fans want to see to get excited about the Hawks. Iverson could’ve worked in Memphis, had he humbled himself to come off the bench. That team, and the city, could’ve really rallied around that dude. But he didn’t have the patience nor the humility to even give it a shot. Even an aging Iverson would’ve electrified Memphis a little.
Ironically, it was actually another cast-off in Jamal Tinsley, who stabilized that team just enough after the bad start, that they started playing at a fairly high level by Christmas.
I agree though. Give me guys who will play soild basketball to help the team win, than sideshow acts that are only good for the occasional crossover or a spectacular dunk. If some of these fans would root more for an aging Allen Iverson, than they would for JJ or Horford, then that speaks volumes about what some of these fans get hyped up for.
Then again, that’s the reason why they give Crawford a pass for his play during the playoffs. He’ll still give them the “oohs and ahhs” and plays fast. So that satisfies some of the fans, even if he’s just as efficient as the rest of the guys.
Time to rebuild
May 20th, 2010
1:48 pm
JJ has to want to resign hear and since its apparent that Sund(of a bytch) hasnt got a clue, weve lost ground( most experts are now predicting 4-6 years back to competitiveness, why would he want to sign here. There is nothing attractive about playing here during the 4-6 rebuild. By that time JJ’s best days will be behind him.
He wont sign here. Hes looking for a team that is trying to win. When Woodson was not extended during midseason JJ saw the hand writing and decided to look for a better opportunity to win a championship. The same with the Z man. The pro’s know Sund(of a bytch) is not going to lead this team any where but mediocrity.
Time to rebuild.
Ken Strickland
May 20th, 2010
1:55 pm
OBRIEN-Houston’s DEF under Thibodeau finished in the top five 4 consecutive yrs. Overall, his DEF’s have finished in the top ten 15 times. As a DEF minded coach he’s the real deal, with an extensive resume, not someone that pretends to be DEF minded, like Woodson. NO DEF MINDED HC WOULD CONSIDER STARTING BIBBY, OR PLAYING HIM SIGNIFICANT MINS. Actually, what other HC would have started and given Bibby significant mins period?
northcyde
May 20th, 2010
2:04 pm
Dejay . . I’m saying that when you have a good home product, they should get support. Every other team in the league is able to draw decent home attendance when they perform well at home.
A team winning 30+ games at home usually aren’t having many issues with attendance. You keep citing the other franchises in the city, but like I said, there are 4 million people in Metro Atlanta, and probably another 1 million within a 2 hour drive of that city.
The Hawks could do a lot more to help themselves, via advertising and marketing, and getting on a much stronger radio station, They could promote their star players much more than what they do.
But Dejay . . if what this team does in the regular season doesn’t matter to fans anymore, then there’s not much the Hawks can do. A superstar just doesn’t walk into a franchises life. That superstar has to want to come to that team, or they have to have the money to go after that star, for the most part.
People talk about Wade and Lebron, like they would even like to come here. What evidence is there that Wade, Lebron, or even a Chris Bosh would want to play in Atlanta . . even if we had the cap room? What free agents over the years have even thought about coming to Atlanta over the past 25 years. I can only think of two.
Dikembe Mutumbo and Joe Johnson.
Everybody else, we had to trade for ( including Dominique, whom we obtained from Utah )
northcyde
May 20th, 2010
2:06 pm
And actually, we had to trade for JJ too. It was only after it became apparent to him that he could make a major payday, plus play close to home, that he seriously considered us.
Sautee
May 20th, 2010
2:07 pm
LOL @ Truth-serum:
“Hey mr con&ham why dont you do a story about how woodson wanted Chris Paul and Brandon Roy but Sund-of-A-Bytch insisted on Marvin William and Sheldon.”
In the first place, Woodson did NOT want CP3. Most of the blog KNOWS this.
In the second place, Sund was hired after Billy Knight quit. It was Billy who drafted both Marvin and Sheldon.
But like he does about Horford, Truth-serum will revise history if it makes his target look worse. I mean why let the silly old facts get in the way of a good trashing?
And, by the way T-s, has having the league’s top shot blocker helped Orlando so far against the Celtics?
David
May 20th, 2010
2:09 pm
If the Hawks resign Joe Johnson does this make us any better???We would still be a team getting put out in the 2nd round because we dont have the talent to go against Cleveland, Boston or Orlando… I am a Hawks fan but to be honest the only players I really like on our team is Horford and Crawford…. If you look at the teams that compete for it all, they have at least 3 starters that can put up 20 plus points and a decent bench(Boston,L.A.,Orlando)If we resign Joe, we need to bring in someone else that can put up points…. The last 2 years we have made the playoffs, when we played against a talented team they embarrassed us…Atlanta needs a MAJOR MAKE OVER!!!!!!!!!
O'Brien
May 20th, 2010
2:15 pm
Ken,
All the more reason why thibodeau should be given an interview in my opinion. And one of my first questions for him would be who would be his offensive coordinator?
The problem for the hawks is that 2 of their best 4 players play the Same position. And except for the closing minutes of a game or closing minutes of a quarter, they should not be on the court at the same time.
JJ should play about 36 MPG, and Crawford should play about 30 MPG. Consequently, if I’m the hawks, I’m looking into trades for Crawford that would improve the bench so that we are not completely reliant on the one bench player.
northcyde
May 20th, 2010
2:28 pm
David
May 20th, 2010
2:09 pm
If the Hawks resign Joe Johnson does this make us any better???We would still be a team getting put out in the 2nd round because we dont have the talent to go against Cleveland, Boston or Orlando… I am a Hawks fan but to be honest the only players I really like on our team is Horford and Crawford…. If you look at the teams that compete for it all, they have at least 3 starters that can put up 20 plus points and a decent bench(Boston,L.A.,Orlando)If we resign Joe, we need to bring in someone else that can put up points…. The last 2 years we have made the playoffs, when we played against a talented team they embarrassed us…Atlanta needs a MAJOR MAKE OVER!!!!!!!!!
************************
Atlanta needs a point guard . . the same thing we’ve needed since Mookie left. You add a legit PG to this team who can run the show, and we become a better team.
We may be frustrated that we can’t get past the 2nd round, but some fans will flat out abandon this team if we lose JJ, and we go into another rebuilding project. I think the ownership understands this. They understand that if we’re at least good, that we can retain most of the base . . even if we’re bytching and crying.
But if this team takes a step backwards, the fan base will dwindle. That “makeover” you talk about, has to be for the right player(s), and it can’t have us take a “step back”. If not, it’s back to wishing for ping pong balls.
Marcus
May 20th, 2010
2:45 pm
I wonder if one of the interview questions posed to the coaching candidates include:
“Tell me your schemes/ philosophy (Off/Def) with or without JJ?”
We can’t set dude up for life without JJ or life with JJ because it is a 50/50 proposition…Answers to that question will influence (I think) draft direction and other things like more direct offensive involvement of Horford, Smoove and Marvin, as well as defensive matchups to address current issues with guarding quicker PG and SG, help defense, etc.
David
May 20th, 2010
2:46 pm
@Northcyde
I agree completely but if you think about it we could have already had that point guard that we need take your pick Chris Paul or Derron Williams…It wouldn’t hurt to add a center into the mix the Hawks need to get bigger I would love to see Chris Bosh come to Atlanta I don’t know if that could happen but it doesn’t hurt to wish lol….
Marcus
May 20th, 2010
2:49 pm
posted last week .. not sure if it is even possible wiht our cap situation …. but Ramon Sessions is wasting away on the bench in MIN after signing an offer with them late last summer. With Johnny Flynn (and possibly Ricky Rubio) on the roster, he looks destined to be back-up PG in the near future. Like Grandad (or someone) said, he was a hot name on the wish list in ‘09 before we resigned Bibby.
ryan
May 20th, 2010
2:51 pm
I don’ care what people say we live in the past about Chris Paul or Derron Williams we should have drafted one those guys and we be not having this question about the PG problem we have to many PF& F and we do not have a post player and that is why we can not beat the Orlando and Cleveland.
terrell
May 20th, 2010
2:57 pm
If the Sixers take Evan Turner, wat will they do with Lou Williams? Send him home possibly? Can he play pg? I think they really like Jrue Holiday.
O'Brien
May 20th, 2010
3:02 pm
Terrell,
The question is what will they do with Iguadala and his contract (Turner is more of a SG/SF).
terrell
May 20th, 2010
3:02 pm
Ryan, if we had CP3 or Deron, we would’nt be having a discussion about JJ either. No way the ASG would pony up enough $ for Paul and JJ. Are you kidding me? Cant have it both ways.
Joe Johnson
May 20th, 2010
3:04 pm
I’m not staying with the Atlanta Hawks I’m tired of the fans and the city I want to be in a bigger market. New York Knicks is my first choice since it’s a big market but If I can play alongside Dwayne Wade I would prefer that over the Knicks. Sorry Hawks fans but I’m outta here so stop trying to persuade me to stay I help make the franchise relevant again and all yall can do is act like that don’t matter and boo me when I needed support. Peace.
- Joe Johnson
terrell
May 20th, 2010
3:04 pm
Turner’s a sg. He wont take Iggy’s spot. Holiday, Turner, Iggy, Brand, Dalemert. Where does Lou fit in?
cp
May 20th, 2010
3:06 pm
I don’t know who it was but yesterday somebody posted some links about Paul George. I didn’t pay them any attention but today they were talking about him on ESPN news. The combine is this week and although its early they say he stood out. So I went and read up on him and checked some clips. I doubt the kid is there when we pick but if he is I say we take him. He is a good defender, passer, has range, and is very athletic. He challenges a lot of shots although he is a small forward. And the one thing he did that I wish our sf could do is finish in traffic. I didn’t see him tripping over guys or getting knocked down by pgs. Dude had no problem getting to the rim and finishing. I just don’t see him being there at 24 but if he is grab him.
Grandad
May 20th, 2010
3:08 pm
*northcyde* /*[on draft nite]*/ ”It’s not like he played for Utah”
“Everybody else, we had to trade for ( including Dominique, whom we obtained from Utah )”
Just say no to Lou
May 20th, 2010
3:09 pm
Let’s not even get into this. Ugh
Grandad
May 20th, 2010
3:12 pm
David:
“If the Hawks resign Joe Johnson does this make us any better?”
YES:
End of story !
ryan
May 20th, 2010
3:15 pm
If we can not get a big name instead i do like the idea of Rudy Gay.
Grandad
May 20th, 2010
3:24 pm
O’Brien:
Why do you assume, because T.T. is a ”Def. Guy”
that he has no concept of offense.
“And one of my first questions for him would be who would be his offensive coordinator?”
You’re assuming everyone is like Woodson.
The dif.
He [wdsn] didn’t know squat about squat.
Basketball coaches are basketball coaches,
unlike;
football coaches, who are specialists.
“Doc’s coaching style might be the best ‘prep school’ for grooming assistants to be head coaches. All of the game-planning is completely delegated. So, for example, all of the coaches (Doc included) get an even number of teams they have to scout, watch game film, and ultimately game-plan for. Thibodeau is responsible for offensive and defensive adjustments both in preparation and during the game. Obviously, Doc puts in the final tweaks into any scheme, but how great is a system like this for developing well-rounded assistant coaches?”
I’ve used this ………^……… before on my posts.
I’m a Thibodeau guy. More sold every day.
O'Brien
May 20th, 2010
3:34 pm
Grandad,
Thibodeau is high on my list too. Plus working with doc he got to see Rondo develop, and he saw the intensity KG brings as the leader of that team.
I’m not assuming he wont be good on offense, but if I’m the GM, he must convince me that he has an offensive game plan (with or without JJ).
One bad thing about the NBA is the draft is before free agency. How are we supposed to know if we should draft a SG or not?
mp
May 20th, 2010
3:38 pm
Trade Joe to Indiana for Brandon Rush and a big and call it a day.
Dejay
May 20th, 2010
3:41 pm
I’m not saying it’s a perfect scenario, North. I’m saying that it is what it is here. I just don’t have a problem with expecting more and if you ask any baseball fan here who threw their hands up after watching the Astros and Cubs send the Braves packing in October when they use to make the playoffs, you’ll know that I’m not alone in this sentiment.
Gearon has lived here all this time and should know better than to expect fans to magically appear based on the past two seasons, especially after they failed to compete in the second round both times. Nique and the gang didn’t give up when they faced the Celtics; even Smitty and Deke’s teams put up a fight against Jordan’s Bulls. After getting their pants pulled down by the Cavs last year and the Magic this spring, how can they expect folks to come back with their wallets out? Because we’re better than we were back in 2005? Please.
Bottom line is that folks here are tired of watching expansion teams (see Orlando and Miami) play for the world title while ours schedule tee times and vacations cruises while yapping about what might have been. While the ‘big boys’ are playing for the belt, we’re relegated to talking about draft picks and who might leave town if XYZ offers them a contract. That script gets old after a while.
MannyT
May 20th, 2010
3:41 pm
@the Joe Johnson naysayers
Look at it this way…the teams that stay on top add to their talent. If Joe leaves, best case scenario is trying to find a replacement that works, but is not as good.
At some point, if you really want to compete at the top level, you have to add to the talent. Of the 4 teams that are left, the Suns are probably the least loaded. However, they found a way to get well more than expected from several of their guys (Hill, Dudley, Frye, Lopez, Admunson), For the guys on 1 yr deals, they either get paid in Phoenix or leave. Then the Suns will be scrambling to get back to the same level.
Boston regained elite status when they scammed in Ray Allen & Kevin Garnett at the same time.
The Lakers had to get Shaq in his prime and Kobe in a youthful deal that worked to get back to the highest level. Then they got the magic beans deal for Gasol after Shaq was gone.
Orlando had to not only get the #1 pick in a good year & pick right, but also add around Howard. Maxing out Lewis and bringing in several pieces. (Imagine if they had Oden instead of Howard. Still a #1 pick big man, but with very different results.)
In the NBA, you gotta build and grow, not reassemble the legos with fewer, but newer pieces.
Ramon
May 20th, 2010
3:44 pm
All the talk about trading Joe, will people please understand the Hawks do not have the rights to trade Joe Johnson. And all of the teams that Joe is truly considering, have enough cap space to sign him flat out without a sign and trade.
And for everyone who’s saying sign Rudy Gay or this person who will make over $10 Mil. Please READ THE ARTICLE! The only person the Hawks can sign for more than 10 mil a season is JOE JOHNSON (aside from Childress and who would give him 10 mil?)! Some of you guys need to put down the PS3 controller and stop playing NBA 2K10 long enough to realize how trades and free agency really works in the real world!
Joe Johnson
May 20th, 2010
3:48 pm
@Ramon
Yep you’re right on point man.
ryan
May 20th, 2010
3:51 pm
Well Ramon if the Hawks can not sign nobody other than Joe Johnson he looks to be leaving than screw the Atlanta Hawks i done with them and the Spirit Group.
MannyT
May 20th, 2010
3:52 pm
as an unrestricted free agent looking for (probably) his last big contract, I doubt Joe agrees to any trade that takes him to a less than top 10 team. I think the chances of me winning the lottery are similar to the chances he goes to Indy or any other team that doesn’t quickly get into title consideration next season.
The Hawks are probably the worst team that he will consider. For all the Chicago & NY comments, remember, they are talking about bringing in 2 major contracts this summer. Joe & (Bosh or Wade or LBJ etc) added to a decent team is a better team than the current Hawks…especially w/o Joe.
OK
May 20th, 2010
3:52 pm
Why would you try to deal for Rudy Gay whan you could get Paul George, Devin Ebanks, Gordon Heyward ,Quincy Pondexter, or Darrington Hobson in the draft?
There are some very skilled SG/SF in this draft.
Uh oh, here we go again. The Nightmares
May 20th, 2010
3:58 pm
Jeff Teague has some serious work to do this summer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqZXE-bRx0I&playnext_from=TL&videos=tqRt5V9RDqc&feature=rec-LGOUT-exp_fresh%2Bdiv-1r-2-HM
ryan
May 20th, 2010
4:06 pm
Hawks will be lotery team mark my words.
cp
May 20th, 2010
4:09 pm
Im on the Paul George bandwagon. Im going to go check out some clips of Ebanks and Hobson
doc
May 20th, 2010
4:19 pm
northcyde are you sure you said this right?
Sports fans in Atlanta haven’t won nearly enough to have the sort of apathy that they have toward their sports teams.
didnt you mean lose enough? if so, we have gone from being loserville to miseryville so i guess we fans have earned our right to say to owners prove it before we ante up and add to your millions. that sentence doesnt make sense by the history i know of as a native atlantan. if we had won there wouldnt be apathy.
also portland just about lost the team because the fans/voter base rejected several attempts to raise money for a new building saying the old one wasnt good enough. their wealthy owner in the same vein as blank and a singular one at that rather than a multi headed monster that we have and a smart GM have raised them from the ashes. ypu dont think that makes a difference in fan support now that yu are comparing portland to atlanta
since you try to compare them, not sure how you can compare the only game in town to one of many, either. apples and oranges. i dont think owners get a pass on delivering an inferior product either so i guess i dont think they are entitled to fans. not sure where that dea comes from and why you would come close to saying it. how many owners have ever lost bucks on one of these franchises? do you really think it is about fan attendance or about other revenues that drive these guys on? is that a consideration? do they considers fans as extra revenue and they make money if they can increase that one and hold their own costs down at the same time? again what product have we got? an exciting team that lays down? come on northcyde, they should have been apologizing not asking for entitled hand outs fronm fans after two seasons of better than .500 ball.
let us see what type of fan base enthusiasm they can generate this summer. i can be convinced to buy again if they dont fall on their faces. ill play poker with them and suggest others do it as well. let them show their hand first.
WWSD
Marking Your Words
May 20th, 2010
4:21 pm
Hey ryan do we just mark the one that’s misspelled?
doc
May 20th, 2010
4:25 pm
i doubt joe’s agent is going to let him walk away from extra gamillions if he gets a cut of it. i say joe stays and hopes he does and we both do well under a new coach. if he doesnt work out then he can be traded later to a team desiring the last fit like ray allen was to boston. worked out good for OKC.
Sautee
May 20th, 2010
4:27 pm
doc,
Yeah and from listening to northcyde and Gearon, you’d NEVER guess that we are in a deep recession. I guess we can tell who has enough money to not be affected, eh?
If anyone thinks that the recession didn’t affect attendance this year, I’ve got a great deal on this bridge in Manhattan.
The economy is the BIGGEST factor in the “lack of fan support”. To ignore that is barking up the wrong tree.
James
May 20th, 2010
4:31 pm
Hawks fans have you ever just got tired of being a Hawks fan? I’m leaning toward being tired of being a fan of the Hawks. We need a owner like Mark Cuban someone that isn’t scared to spend money in order to make the team better. We need Joe Johnson but we also need another superstar to go along with him the hawks owners need to spend some money to get the right pieces so the team can be better.
doc
May 20th, 2010
4:36 pm
wow look at what the braves did threw up a touchdown extra point in the ninth to win at home. got to love that! fun for fans to see the glimpses of success.
i_am_soulstar
May 20th, 2010
4:41 pm
It’s a shame that my future happiness depends on Rick Sund and ASG.
truthspitter
May 20th, 2010
4:43 pm
Fans: Are pure stupid if they believe the lies that the management continue to make. I will not support this team if they don’t add another big time piece. I’m fine with bring Joe back but you can make all the excuses you want this team can get Rudy Gay and stay under the cap, if they tell you otherwise, they are incompetent liars.
@northcyde: since you find the need to respond directly to others get facts correct, our 1st rd draft pick will make about $1.1 million and 2nd rick picks are not on a scale, so you can pay them as you wish which makes them even more valuable to whoever claim that 2nd rd picks are worthless. Now lets say we trade the 1st rd pick for a future 1st rd picks or cash then we go from $45.1 to $44 mill and we then have $12 mill to play with. Joe Johnson is not a restricted FA so we don’t have his rights as if he was a restricted FA, but with Chillz’s that is the case, so just let him walk and go after Gay since Chillz has not gotten any better.
niremetal
May 20th, 2010
4:44 pm
Sautee,
I agree to an extent – as you’ll probably agree, I think the truth lies somewhere in between. The recession helps explain why attendance is down league-wide, including in Atlanta. That is, it explains the drop in attendance between last year and this year for the Hawks. But it doesn’t explain why the Hawks’ attendance is still 18th in the NBA – ie why we draw fewer fans than worse teams from other cities.
PaulTolliver
May 20th, 2010
4:44 pm
I think the Hawks should attempt to bust up the team and make a few moves before the free agency deadline. First, trade Josh Smith to the Hornets for James Posey. Second, trade Joe Johnson to the Utah Jazz for Carlos Boozer and Deron Williams. Cut Marvin Williams and let him go for nothing:he’s worthless; and next, acquire Tracy McGrady and sign him to a 10-day contract to see what he has left in the tank. If T-Mac impresses, give him a longer contract and give him a starting job. Those moves should make the Hawks much better, making them a 60-win/title contender.
truthspitter
May 20th, 2010
4:50 pm
Why would you try to deal for Rudy Gay whan you could get Paul George, Devin Ebanks, Gordon Heyward ,Quincy Pondexter, or Darrington Hobson in the draft?
There are some very skilled SG/SF in this draft.
@OK: personally I’m waiting for measurements to come out, but Ebanks is a joke and cant shoot, George was not even dominant in that weak conference, Heyward is being blown out of proportion, they guy has been totally inconsistent, he shot less than 30% from 3PT range this year after looking good last year, we already have Marvin we don’t need that type of inconsistent player, Pondexter did not show his true game until his senior year, which is mighty convenient, once again inconsistent and he is only gonna measure out at about 6-6 with shoes which is 2 guard size, we don’t need another 2 guard if we bring back JJ, Hobson, I never saw one thing out of him that was impressive
cp
May 20th, 2010
4:52 pm
Josh Smith for James Posey? Sigh. I really hate this blog around this time of the year. Really Josh Smith for James Posey? Man Ive seen some terrible trade ideas on here this might be top 3 of worst all time.
Sautee
May 20th, 2010
5:12 pm
nire,
Good point, but northcyde has yet to explain how we are 18th in attendance, but 22nd in spending and yet the fans are at fault for the lack of support (not leading to greater spending). Those figures would lead one to believe that the fans are doing THEIR job, but the owners are trailing behind. Or rather, that the owners are even more lame with THEIR support than the fans, if you like.
Ramon
May 20th, 2010
5:13 pm
Lol @ cp. Its suggestion like Josh for Posey that probably leaves the ownership not taking any of us seriously lol.
cp
May 20th, 2010
5:24 pm
Looks like the blog master ate my post but allowed that wild trade proposal one.. Let me try this again. Ramon you’re right.. When I saw the trade suggestion I didn’t know if i should have laughed or shake my head so I did both. Easily one of the silliest trade proposals Ive ever seen on here and thats saying a lot with these characters.
doc
May 20th, 2010
5:31 pm
for a week i have asked why we as fans are stuck with owners only spending at the 22nd highest rate. isnt this a big league city with big league owners?
i would be embarrassed if this city had owners spending well in luxury tax range with a good team and trailing in attendance. the only time it has happened in the history of major league sports in this town, now of at least 40 years duration was when the braves spent and had a product. seems 4 million fans showed up until money went down along with expectations in the off season. i am not embarrassed to be a discerning sports fan with my money. just not. based on the history of sports in this town no one else should be either.
i am embarrassed for anyone including gearon who wont say why they wont spend big league top five money and continue to rag on the fan when they dont spend. aim it at gearon and his entitled merry cast of characters. this isnt civil service they are providing but a business they will profit from in spite of what their accountants say.
hawksfan23
May 20th, 2010
5:32 pm
i dont really understand how the cap works but if we dont sign the rights to collins and morriss and trade childress for something instead of paying for him to stay in europe, get our second round pick from last year sergy gladyr (european 3 point champ 46 percent) keep joe smith, get back garret siler 7 ft center that we signed last year just to let go he 10 – 15 points in the d league, if mo evans and his 3.5 million leave, want we have enough to sign someone with the 10 to 12 million we will have left? i also say we go after salmons who single handedly torched us in the playoffs.
Big Ray
May 20th, 2010
5:34 pm
If JJ doesn’t return and we get a good enough coach, we stand a chance to win enough games to not get any ping pong balls, but bad enough to get a first round matchup with the #1 seed if we DO make the playoffs.
Grandad
May 20th, 2010
5:34 pm
People / not all / get a grip.
I’m considering:
‘NOT’ being a Hawk fan.
Draft:
Alabi, P.George, Ebanks, [Gordon Hayward/Adam Morrison]really?
Trade Josh:
for a bag o’ beans?
Break up the team & start over.
Get a real owner like:
Cuban, Blank, Prokhorov.
Fire Sund…for the life of me…why?
Let Joe go & sign:
D. Wade, LeBron James, LeBron James’ mom, Bosh, Amare’…..
Why can’t:
We have a team with excitement like the Braves???(serious ?)
Folks – the glass is half full !
At the end of the day Joe’s coming back.
We will keep Childress or get some value S&T.
We will draft a rotation player.
Wdsn will not be here to waste another yr.
of a promising young player.
We will hire a coach better than the previous one.
*Impossible not to get a better one
Don’t dispair.
Grandad’s prediction:
We enter play-offs next yr. with more hope
than we did this yr.! [to win a championship]
Grandad
May 20th, 2010
5:49 pm
O’Brien:
From earlier;
about the draft, @ 24 I like the philosophy of Astro Joe,
who said:
“get a niche player”.
You mentioned the draft occurred before FA.
[paraphrase] didn’t know if we need a SG or not?
Like AJ if you get a player @ 24 that can
contribute immediately…call it a day !
Perhaps (not perfect) but Redick would be a lower end
SG / ‘FA’ that could replace Joe within our budget.
He would be better than any #24 pick.
OR
Trade up & draft Xavier Henry !
I’m always thinkin’………
some of it even makes sense – to me @ least.
Ramon
May 20th, 2010
5:52 pm
Grandad, rather we sign Joe or not. The Hawks should trade this year’s pick and next year’s pick to move up in this draft. Next year is scheduled to be a weak draft. And as long as the Hawks maintain playoff contention they wouldn’t be losing anything by trading that pick. And it would actually help because that could be 2 mil more for Horford’s extension next season. If the Hawks could even move up and possibly make a run at Aldrich, that would be acceptable.
niremetal
May 20th, 2010
6:00 pm
Sautee,
I don’t think spending is necessarily an indication of how much a team values its fan base or supports its team. If it were, then the Knicks would have the most supportive ownership in the NBA. I think it’s fair to judge the ownership for the quality of the product on the floor more than how much they spent on it. That being said, there are plenty of faults to find with the quality of the product on the floor, so…
doc
May 20th, 2010
6:01 pm
ray i think i have been to that dance before.
doc
May 20th, 2010
6:15 pm
nire, you only have to look to the celts to see how a turn around can happen. that one didnt occur because owners had their hands in their pocket but it did happen because their general manager wasnt named isiah thomas. that last name mutes any argument about money spent in regards to the knicks.
most teams in the higher brackets do well consistently. some teams fall on their swords because their owners cant come up with the money for whatever reason usually they dont want to spend to hold their place in line and falll back to inferior quality teams like the hornets, clips, warriors, etc. let us see which way we fall before saying fans need to pay more. yes money spent does not assure either wins or fans. i imagine if the celts had gone the route we did it might have taken its toll on the numbers that showed up to watch the parquet floor instead of championship quality teams. the famous floor wont bring the fans either to go down memory lane. the fans had voted with a drop in interest before the trade was made is my guess in spite of the storied past.
again, ill keep accountability on the owners not the fans when it comes to who should entice or draw whom. these guys accountants know exactly what they need and want to extract money from fans is my guess.
PrestonC
May 20th, 2010
7:12 pm
Enter your comments here
PrestonC
May 20th, 2010
7:14 pm
Here’s what we do:
Sign and trade Joe to New Orleans, so that we get Darren Collison
Sign John Salmons
Trade Marvin Williams and Jeff Teague for Brendan Haywood
Our lineup: Collison, Salmons, Smith, Horford, Haywood
Bench: Crawford, Bibby, Pachulia, Evans, 24th Draft Pick
Collison can develop into something special, ala Rajon Rondo. Salmons is a poor-man’s Joe, with less one-on-one. Then we get Avery Johnson to coach us. We’ll at least get past the 2nd round with this group of guys.
Grandad
May 20th, 2010
7:24 pm
PrestonC:
What if;
Joe don’t want to,
and or,
N.O. don’t want to?
Grandad
May 20th, 2010
7:30 pm
Ramon:
Acceptable.
Rather have Xavier Henry / but / Aldrich…
better than anything we get @ 24.
I’d still take ‘Zoubek’ with 2nd round pick.
Ramon = logical——-> I like it !
drmaryb
May 20th, 2010
7:30 pm
Doc
Damn Baby! That 531 PM Post?
Is HOT! All that I can say is … Look at your right hand & scream at it – “You HOT man! You HOT!”.
(Ala D-Wade!)
You brought passion, fire, intellect & some “black-girl” neck – roll! (LOL). Hey doc, I am a consumer just like you and I too am a deliberate spender. Like that rapper said, ” I made this money -not you!-”. When you arte in the service industry? You can not demand service! At least, NOT from your Target – Markets!
You tell em’ doc! Mad Love from …. dmb!
Delbert D.
May 20th, 2010
7:31 pm
Keep Zaza.
Grandad
May 20th, 2010
7:33 pm
PrestonC – Oh yeah what if Salmons + Bucks don’t want to.
doc
May 20th, 2010
7:47 pm
dr mb you got me hotter under the collar now. sweet geezus, the thong lady spoke to me. richie will be mad if he ever gets over his number one draft pick hangover.
all about accountability.
drmaryb
May 20th, 2010
7:47 pm
Grand – Daddy
You tell em’ baby. These are 15 year old kids … Surfing the net – when they should be studying their lessons.
They dream up all these fantasy trades without a reasonable thought in the world & put it out there as though it had a snowballs chance in hell!
That is why I never respond to them… Better yet, “I get my scroll – on!”
(a highly under-utilized feature on this blog).
Life is Short. I only have time to read the real bloggers who always use their REAL I’d’s. The phantom users are just that.
Now Let’s Go! Find us a COACH & Re-Sign Mr. Joseph Johnson!
Pi$$onaDAWG
May 20th, 2010
7:49 pm
I thought you were talking about getting J.J. Reddick. Who cares about the Hawks? Who cares about Pro Tatoo Traveling Too Much Contact Dope smoking Basketball. I guess it is better than having all those tall SOBs on welfare and tring to hold up their pants.
drmaryb
May 20th, 2010
7:57 pm
Doc
Who is richie’s #1 draft pick hangover?
Doc, baby…. I had to go back to North Fulton Charities today & re-claim my “razor sharp thong” from the donated items. My azz is very irritated and chapped from the play offs exit & now the coaching search. I am so thoroughly invested in this team to the point where I get irritated when the Hawks don’t perform well. It’s NOT about winning – It’s about HOW you play the game!
Help me doc? Please I need a sedative and a beer!
Wabe
May 20th, 2010
8:01 pm
The works of TS:
“Hey mr con&ham why dont you do a story about how woodson wanted Chris Paul and Brandon Roy but Sund-of-A-Bytch insisted on Marvin William and Sheldon.”
What was it you said to me?
Something about ignorance?
Sautee
May 20th, 2010
8:29 pm
Wabe,
Yeah, and Horford as been here for 5 years, too.
Remember that one?
drmaryb
May 20th, 2010
8:36 pm
Wabe
Baby, “When you see a fool? Leave a fool.”
When you come on here? Get your Scroll-On! Brother…. TS is a joke in your town! He’s like trying to call 911 in Decatur! Or, like trying to order a pizza in the wrong zip-code! Like 30030.
doc
May 20th, 2010
8:59 pm
dmb, richie is a wiz fan and we havent heard from him since the lottery numbers were pulled.
northcyde
May 20th, 2010
9:08 pm
Sautee . . from what I can see, your question is easier to answer than you think.
The most simple reason is because Josh Childress should either be under contract with us right now, or we should’ve signed him and traded him to somebody, and see that player be under contract right now.
Instead, they let him find his “own deal”, and got burnt big time when he found a deal in which we couldn’t get something back for him . . by signing with the Greek Euroleague team.
What . . . you figure that Chill should be entering the 3rd year of his deal, at about 7 million?
That’s not to say that our payroll would be 7 million more than it is right now, seeing that the front office may not have wasted money on Jason Collins and Joe Smith . . . or maybe even Flip or Mo for that matter. But if they still did the Crawford trade, the payroll would be at least 4 – 5 million higher.
So that’s the easy answer.
The other answers would be these:
- Diaw and our 2008 1st round pick were traded in the JJ deal
- Al Harrington wasn’t signed and traded, and signed as a UFA elsewhere
- free agents didn’t want to come to ATL
- we didn’t have enough expiring contracts to trade for higher cost players until 2007.
- fans didn’t want Josh Smith traded, especially when the chance for a near max contract player ( Pau Gasol ) was on the trading block
- Hawks in those early years didn’t ( or couldn’t ) use the mid-level exception to add marginal players and sign them for multi-year deals.
So you can pick and choose between those things. But at the very least, Chill or his replacement should be under contract right now.
Instead, we have Chill’s almost 11 million dollar cap hold over us like a 20 inch snow in Atlanta.
doc
May 20th, 2010
9:15 pm
like the last post there nc, tell me more about this one though. i never heard this ever in the news…
“- fans didn’t want Josh Smith traded, especially when the chance for a near max contract player ( Pau Gasol ) was on the trading block. ”
how could that have ever worked based on salaries as josh was still on his initial contract at the time?
not sure, seems so, but are you saying they fumbled big time on chills?
darrell starks
May 20th, 2010
9:16 pm
From reading the blog no one trust teague as the hawks starting point guard.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!
nunnna yo biznezz!!
May 20th, 2010
9:17 pm
Obrien,
it was woody who wanted bibbs,and marvin resigned..
we had flip,othello hunter,and he brought in joe smith and crawford!!
yes,the same rick sund you talked about had to bring in those guys to offset what woody requested that he wanted and the ASG wanted sund to work with woody..
thats why this “same sund” was smart enough not to offer coach woodson and extension!!
DRAFT DUKE CREWS!! A MORE AGGRESIVE BUT STAYS ON HIS FEET MARVIN WILLIAMS..
AND THE DEFENSIVE GEM,ANTHONY DILLARD!! BRING THEM BOTH HOME RICKY BOY!!
BRING THEM HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!
SO,NEXT YEAR WE CAN HOIST THE O’BRIEN TROPHY AND SING IN UNISON,”LOOKS LIKE WE MADE IT”..AKA MADE!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRM1XgucfTg
Keep JJ
May 20th, 2010
9:33 pm
The hawks need to hurry and give JJ max money or he may get mad and start looking at other teams. He’s a key player on O and with Bosh and Wade, the hawks will be loaded next year. Pay JJ whatever he wants–he’s worth every penny!
nunnna yo biznezz!!
May 20th, 2010
9:44 pm
CORRECTION:
ITS JAMES DILLARD!!
BRING HIM HOME TOO RICKY BOY!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUn0efc2dWE
O'Brien
May 20th, 2010
9:44 pm
northcyde,
Sund bungled the Chills deal, but thats because he does not think that highly of Chills. If he had offered Chills 3 years, $15 mil right away, we dont know if he would have stayed or not. My opinion, I think Chills felt disrespected more than anything (it wasnt all about the money).
Either way, thats a #6 pick that has not being utilized for the last 2 years, and might not be utilized this year either. Wasted asset.
newkid
May 20th, 2010
9:45 pm
Anyone hear that the early word out of the combine in Chicago has Dwane Casey and the Hawks talking a deal?
Sautee
May 20th, 2010
9:49 pm
northcyde,
I thought we S&T’d Harrington for the Acie pick. No?
So, because the GMs have been lame, then you want to blame the fans for lack of support? I really don’t get that.
drmaryb
May 20th, 2010
9:54 pm
Doc
OK. I get it now …. I’m s l o w. LOL!
nunnna yo biznezz!!
May 20th, 2010
10:04 pm
WHO REALLY THINKS THAT WE HAVE ENOUGH PIECES IN PLACE TO LAND DWAYNE WADE??
WADE IS NOT COMING HERE..AND WILL ONLY USE US AS RAW MEAT TO DABBLE IN FRONT OF OTHER TEAMS TO RAISE HIS VALUE!!
JJ IS NOT GONNA SIGN EITHER UNLESS HE CAN MAKE MORE IN A SIGN AND TRADE TO THE TEAM HE WANTS TO SIGN WITH PERIOD!!
ITS A CHANCE WE LAND BOSH..THE MAIN REASON WE CAN IS BECAUSE HE PLAYED HIS COLLEGE BALL HERE AND HE MAY LIKE IT HERE WITH THE FRONT COURT OF HE,HORFORD AND JSMOOVE!!
with the development of teague,and crawford starting at the PG,we should be ok..
UGA
May 20th, 2010
10:34 pm
If we get Avery Johnson, you think he would want us to sign Josh Howard??? He is a free agent, but does have some issues.
Bob Weiss
May 20th, 2010
10:48 pm
Well looks like I will get my job back. I believe we will complete the rebuilding by 2013. That Woodson had us going in the wrong direction. Lets reverse course, instead of winning, you mother fcckers like losing. You ignorant ais losers.
time to rebuild bitcches
itybity ray
May 20th, 2010
10:50 pm
Horford is gay.
northcyde
May 20th, 2010
11:08 pm
@ sautee . . . yeah you’re right. I believe that is how we got the Acie pick, via the Harrington trade. So it wasn’t a total waste . . so we thought.
*********
@ O’Brien . . . Yeah he messed that situation up big time in my opinion. Chill was part of the “running identity” of this team during those days. Being able to retain him, plus adding Flip and Mo, would’ve made that 2008 squad very interesting. Flip and Mo made us not miss Chill, but he still would’ve been nice to have off the bench.
That Childress situation needs to be resolved THIS SUMMER. Either sign that dude, or sign and trade him to someone else, so that we can get back somebody to add to our bench. Sund needs to be pro-active with Chill, not reactive. If all the Hawks are going to do, is offer him the qualifying offer, then he also needs to have a few sign and trades to present to him as well. Just don’t let him go back to Greece.
*********
@ doc . . . that comment was based out of a rumor in Memphis. That organizaton liked Josh Smith from the get go, mainly because he’d play well whenever we went to Memphis. Those were also the “trade Speedy Claxton” days.
So the deal being kicked around the different blogs, I believe, was Josh Smith + Speedy + Lorenzen Wright . . . or Josh + Lorenzen + Lue + Anthony Johnson . . for Gasol.
Lue, Lorenzen and AJ were expiring contracts.
With Smoove’s deal coming up, the thinking was to trade Smoove then, and get back a low post scorer to team with Horford. And for Memphis, it would give them the option to sign a good young player, and give them some cap relief with the expiring contracts ( although they’d be on the hook for Speedy for 2 more years. )
Not sure about here, but that was a big topic on the ESPN board and a little on Hawksquawk. But nobody knew that the Griz would just give away Gasol for all of thoe expiring contracts.
ryan
May 20th, 2010
11:12 pm
It sucks to be an Atlanta Hawks fan we don’t have any cap space we are not getting LeBron,D.Wade,Chris Bosh. Hell we can not even get a mid level player I hate the Spirit Group . New York, New Jersey, Chi Town all living it up
niremetal
May 20th, 2010
11:28 pm
I just hope the Hawks can find a coach that’s needy and feminine like me!
Big Ray, can I be your cabana boy?
doc
May 20th, 2010
11:43 pm
northcyde, i had never heard that one. funny, the hawks beat the lakers about that time in atlanta prompting one of the owners to pop off “we had arrived”. what someone in l a arrived on they needed another piece beyond a broken young seven footer and odum and went after gasol.
the only interest i knew the griz had in josh was when they made that soft late play on him in rfa that finally got our gm to move after he had botched the chills situation.
nire says they arent cheap but there are very tight frugal ways going on there in that organization and limiting the flight these guys can have because of it. good luck to the next coach under this type of fiscal responsibility.
look i know i cant spend their money but it ticks me off when they think we have to spend our money to see what may be a product shrinking backwards if they let jj go free and clear and try to fill in from there. me, i can wait on buying my season tickets. i think good seats or some seats will be available once they play their hand.
o.O-Mac-Town -Macon, Georgia- Westsider-O.o
May 20th, 2010
11:54 pm
If we lose JJ….but gain
1 – a decent replacement…not as good…but decent
PLUS
2 – More Size
3 – More serviceable bench help
4 – PG
5 – Better coach with an actual playbook
6 – Draft Well (which could contribute to #2-4)
If we even improve on 3 or 4 of those……we can be better team next year…even if JJ is lost.
If it’s this the same 4th quarter/playoff chokin JJ anyway….forget him anyway.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 20th, 2010
11:58 pm
Josh was a restricted free agent; waiting to see what the market provided was the smart move, because the Hawks had rights to match any deal presented to Josh. The Hawks probably saved themselves $10-15 million by doing so instead of offering him a deal off the bat, and the result is that they probably get more bang for the buck off Josh’s contract than any other non-rookie contract on the roster.
Doing the same with Joe looks like a recipe for disaster to me — if the Hawks don’t offer him a deal at 12:01 on July 1, he’s probably going to feel unwanted and sign outright with another team. As much as that may pay off in 2015 when his max deal would expire, it would kill the Hawks now because there’s no way they would be able to bring in a viable replacement. Joe, despite his many faults, is still a much better regular season player than anyone else the Hawks can realistically get.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 21st, 2010
12:38 am
The Mavs, with a projected salary outlay next year $30 million over the salary cap, are still getting ready to make a play for LeBron this summer via sign-and-trade.
Presumably, they would not surrender Dirk in a deal, which means anything they could offer the Cavs in a sign-and-trade would be no better than anything the Hawks could surrender in a sign-and-trade.
As unlikely and improbable as it may be, if Cuban can be ambitious enough to claim that he wants to get LeBron on his team, the Hawks can do the same thing. At the very least, it would send a message to the often-criticized fans that the ownership group actually does care about winning — as opposed to simply keeping the current core intact, which regardless of the outcome would send the wrong message to the casual fans whose sharpest memory of the Hawks right now is seeing the current core get blown out in the 2nd round.
If nothing else, simply coming out and saying they would be interested in making a play for a marquee free agent — no matter how much truth is behind those claims — would keep the Hawks in the local spotlight and generate some buzz around them, as opposed to shifting them to the back burner where they will otherwise remain pretty much until the Falcons’ season gets over. Cuban, being the marketing genius that he is, understands that a tampering charge is well worth the payoff of keeping the Mavs in the spotlight of the Dallas area sports scene.
And needless to say, I would be willing to surrender anyone and everyone on the Hawks’ roster in a sign-and-trade for LeBron.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 21st, 2010
12:56 am
What is this, coaches making adjustments? Weird.
drmaryb
May 21st, 2010
1:47 am
NCyde
I believe we got Acie @ the #10 pick from Dallas for “Jet” Terry straight up? Al Harrington was a FA wasn’t he – He (like Woody) just wasn’t re-signed here and left for the Knicks. Correct me IF I’m wrong.
OK
May 21st, 2010
2:00 am
“@OK: personally I’m waiting for measurements to come out, but Ebanks is a joke and cant shoot, George was not even dominant in that weak conference, Heyward is being blown out of proportion, they guy has been totally inconsistent, he shot less than 30% from 3PT range this year after looking good last year, we already have Marvin we don’t need that type of inconsistent player, Pondexter did not show his true game until his senior year, which is mighty convenient, once again inconsistent and he is only gonna measure out at about 6-6 with shoes which is 2 guard size, we don’t need another 2 guard if we bring back JJ, Hobson, I never saw one thing out of him that was impressive”
Truthspitter,
*Measurements? All the guys you listed will measure about 6′7-6′8 w/o shoes gaurenteed (pondexter will be the exception).
* Heyward had a down shooting year because he was the focal point of their offense in his sophomore season as opposed to his freshman year where all he did was spot up. can u say Drain-O? In his second season teams were attached to the kid at the hip. OMG DID U REALLY JUST COMPARE THIS KID TO MARVIN??? HAHAHAHAHA 0_0 I’m suprised Marvin is coordinated enough to tie his own shoes at this point. weak argument. GH is legit, kid will shine regardless.
* Paul George wasn’t dominant? 16.8 pts 7.2 rebs 3 assists and 2 blks isn’t dominant? It’s certainly better than the measly 14ppg Joe Johnson put up at Arkansas before turning pro. Oh yeah, I almost forgot. 90.9% FT SHOOTER.
* So Ebanks averages 12pts, 8 rebs, 2.4 assists and 77% from the charity stripe on a loaded WVU squad and that makes him a joke how? He’s better than Marvin, hell everyone’s better than Marvin at this point. Dude has twice the defensive intangibles and hustle of Rudy Gay. He’s an average shooter? So what? What do we pay Mark Price for? If we draft him, Marvin should get demoted to the bench no questions asked.
* Hobson is a beast, played his HS ball down the road in Decatur. Exellent playmaker and he has added bulk. Legit 6′7 leftie with a smooth stroke and good range. Not the most athletic but neither is Joe Johnson, dude has PG/SG/SF skills just like Joe, Smooth. Needs to improve his FT shooting though (but so does Joe, it was never a strength of his either).
* I’m a Pondexter skeptic as well. I agree with your concernes. Only time will tell with him.
DID I MENTION THAT THESE GUYS COST A FRACTION OF WHAT WE ARE CURRENTLY PAYING MARVIN “DUCK BUTT” WILLIAMS? HELL, THEY’RE CHAPER THAN MO’S SORRY BUTT TOO. PROBABLY BETTER AND MORE COORDINATED THAN BOTH OF EM PUT TOGETHER AS WELL.
I say we get more picks, draft two or three wings and get rid of Mario, Mo, and possibly Marivn (if we can get something legit in return for him)
Am I being to hard on Duck? Maybe a new system is all he needs? Maybe it takes up to a year for that back injury to fully heal? I’m pulling for the guy but mann, he’s making it really difficult to be a fan these days. GET YOUR STUFF TOGETHER THIS SUMMER AND GRIND SON. We want results. It’s a stretch but we’ll see.
Lets not forget that Lebron and Paul Perice reside in our confrence, and thay ain’t goin’ NOWHERE. We need REAL wings like redbull. Can somebody shout defense????
OK
May 21st, 2010
2:08 am
Leave Hayward open if you want too, that’s on you (kinda like how mike woodson opted to lead the Magic shooters open lol).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6AdlhgwqWo
OK
May 21st, 2010
2:12 am
OMG Gordon Hayward looks JUST LIKE MARVIN ON THIS PLAY!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiFx4U9vozk&NR=1
Spitting image LMBO!!!!!!
OK
May 21st, 2010
2:20 am
And the kid Raps too? Marvins got some stiff competition hahahaha!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYK7elqoi4M
Joe Beast collab???
Najeh Davenpoop
May 21st, 2010
2:33 am
Wow, that guy makes Ron Artest sound like Andre 3000.
Sh-t, he makes this guy sound like Andre 3000.
stanley
May 21st, 2010
4:20 am
keep the team as it is u should have kept mike woodson. now watch if u trade players its back to loosing the owners atlanta spirit dont have money how do 8 people own a team that russian billionare should have bought the hawks instead of the nets how the hell lebron gonna play in atlanta you must be crazy no star is playing here
JSS
May 21st, 2010
5:45 am
@ Niremetal…
Because once again, good NBA teams (Utah) can find real value in the 2nd round if they know what they are doing! Paul Millsap (2nd Rd 47 pick), C.J. Miles (2nd Rd 34 pick) and Mo Williams (2nd Rd 47 pick) were some of Utah’s picks. I do understand that Willams had to live through an “Jerry Sloan attitude adjustment.” As blogger Charlie Scatturo put it concerning Williams: “His most recent playoff performance against the Celtics aside, Mo Williams is another second round pick that has exceeded expectations for his draft position.” http://bleacherreport.com/articles/394708-diamonds-in-the-rough-the-best-non-lottery-picks-of-the-last-decade This is not an attempt to start one of those historical “pissing contest” on here… Of course the majority don’t smell the floor; but the Hawks who can not afford to take any opportunity to enhance their roster cheaply. However, instead we fill our bench with the likes of Randolph Morris? You might as well waste it on a 2nd rounder who never sees the floor…
Maxx
May 21st, 2010
6:40 am
What about trading Marvin?
O'Brien
May 21st, 2010
7:17 am
@ JSS,
Not to mention the undrafted guard Wesley Matthews, who played solid minutes for Utah. Teams like the Jazz and Spurs (Blair in the second round) always seem to find these guys, whereas the Hawks never do.
Looking at your diamonds in the rough article, there has been some good finds in the second round. Marc Gasol included. Has one of our second round picks ever panned out? Maybe Cenk and Gladyr will become solid rotational players in time.
The new Nets owner and Russian Billionaire seems like he is going to be a great owner. I wish he would have bought the Hawks.
And not only did Cuban mention targeting LeBron, but because he spoke about him before free agency, he is risking a potential million dollar fine for tampering. That’s money right there. The ASG, on the other hand? They are still looking for investors.
“We have been ideally looking for an investor to come in and play a role in the Atlanta Thrashers — ideally a local investor who would give us more financial muscle, if you will, in this community,” Levenson said following the Thrashers’ season.
Since our GM seems to like familiarity with his coaches, I wonder how he feels about his former draft pick Johan Petro from his Seattle days. Petro is a 7 footer, but I don’t know anything about his game. He is available for cheap. Anyone seen him play?
niremetal
May 21st, 2010
8:07 am
I LOVE MEN! MMM!
JSS
May 21st, 2010
8:13 am
@ O’Brien
Good morning… There should be some pretty extensive footage on Petro since he played some big minutes (nearly 20) the last 2 games of the Utah/Denver 1st Round… He’s practiced against Nene which bodes well in a way…
This may repost with the links eventually if Mr. Cunningham gets an opportunity to check his filter
Ramon
May 21st, 2010
8:34 am
So it seems that Avery Johnson is the new leading candidate for the job, if they’ve had more than one interview already, and his reps are still negotiating. Although I’m an advocate of Thibodeau, the difference in hiring Avery over Casey, Demopoulos, and Thibodeau is just simply being willing to pay the price for Avery sends a message that the Hawks are willing to pay to compete. And that along should send excitement, and go a long way in negotiating with Joe and any other free agent. By the way remember, Joe doesn’t HAVE to wait til July 1st to sign a contract with the Hawks.
itybity ray
May 21st, 2010
8:39 am
lets get the feminine Avery who couldnt get the maverick over the hump with more talent than the hawks have now to go with the feminine center we have who cant defend the rim and lets through a baby shower!
LET THE REBUILDING BEGIN!
FIRE SUND
itty bitty ray
May 21st, 2010
8:44 am
* THROW A BABY AISE SHOWER
TIME TO REBUILD MUDDER FROCKER
itty bitty ray
May 21st, 2010
8:45 am
WTF KIND OF UPGRADE IS THAT?
GET BOB WEISS BYTCH!
LARRY LEFT NUT LOPEZ
May 21st, 2010
8:47 am
JOE AINT SIGNING WITH YO PUNK AZZEZ
LARRY LEFT NUT LOPEZ
May 21st, 2010
8:48 am
THAT BYTCH AVERY PAINTS HIS EYELASHES
Najeh Davenpoop
May 21st, 2010
8:50 am
“Teams like the Jazz and Spurs (Blair in the second round) always seem to find these guys, whereas the Hawks never do.”
There are two sides to that coin: it also takes a good coach to get the most out of a player’s talent, and both of those teams have excellent coaches. Nothing bears this out more than players like Devin Brown and Speedy Claxton who played major roles for those coaches but were largely non-factors elsewhere.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 21st, 2010
8:59 am
2nd round picks are valuable if you have good coaches and a good GM that can take advantage of them. If your coaches are clueless about developing young players and your GM drafts players like Robert Swift and Saer Sene in the first round, then yeah, your second round picks are likely to be worthless.
LARRY LEFT NUT LOPEZ
May 21st, 2010
9:09 am
SPEEDY CLAXTON IS STILL A SCRUB AND WILL ALWAYS BE. HE IS NO LONGER ABLE TO FREE LOAD OFF A GUARANTEED CONTRACT SO HE HAS TO WORK HARD. ITS UP TO THE PLAYER TO WANT TO WORK HARD. THATS WHAT SEPARATES THE CHAMPS FROM THE CHUMPS.
AND IT STILL DOESNT MATTER HOW HARD YOU WORK IF YOU JUST DONT HAVE THE TALENT LIKE THE HAWK DONT HAVE THE TALENT.
Hoops
May 21st, 2010
9:13 am
I see this happening-
1. Hawks sign Avery Johnson as HC even though I think they are really missing out on not giving T. Thibodeau a opportunity.
2. JJ resigns with the Hawks.
3. Hawks make a trade involving Marvin & Bibby & a draft pick to get Jefferson.
4. Hawks resign Chills.
5. Hawks trade up to get a SF that can contribute. Who that is, I don’t know.
Ramon
May 21st, 2010
9:14 am
Hoops, which Jefferson?
Ramon
May 21st, 2010
9:17 am
Just got a message that Avery is a long shot for the Hawks now because he wants too much control.
LARRY LEFT NUT LOPEZ
May 21st, 2010
9:21 am
I see this happening-
1. Hawks sign Avery Johnson as HC even though I think they are really missing out on not giving T. Thibodeau a opportunity.
2. JJ resigns with the Hawks.
3. Hawks make a trade involving Marvin & Bibby & a draft pick to get Jefferson.
4. Hawks resign Chills.
5. Hawks trade up to get a SF that can contribute. Who that is, I don’t know.
I SEE ANOTHER ALSO RAN SEASON A FEW GAMES OVER 500 AND REBUILDING PROLONGED.
LARRY LEFT NUT LOPEZ
May 21st, 2010
9:22 am
WHY WOULD ANYBODY COVERT AVERY? I THOUGHT THE OBJECT WAS TO UPGRADE. THATS A LATERAL MOVE AT BEST.
LARRY LEFT NUT LOPEZ
May 21st, 2010
9:24 am
OH I SEE. A LOT OF GAY PEOPLE MOVED TO ATLANTA IN THE 90′S AND AVERY WOULD FIT RIGHT IN WITH HIS FEMININITY. WE’LL HAVE A SOFT CENTER AND A SOFT COACH AND THEN A SOFT 82 GAMES AND OUT IN THE SECOND ROUND.
LARRY LEFT NUT LOPEZ
May 21st, 2010
9:30 am
AND BEFORE YOU HIRE AN ASSISTANT COACH AS A PROJECT TO FIND OUT WHETHER HE CAN CUT IT AS A HEAD COACH WHY DONT YOU CONSIDER;
BOB FCCCKING WEISS!
LARRY LEFT NUT LOPEZ
May 21st, 2010
9:39 am
Portland assistant coach Dean Demopoulos i another experiment for a GM thats clueless and has never won a championship. Sund-of-a-bytch should have at the least has an upward plan in mind when he let go woodson.
So the next 4 years will be experiments and misfits before we FIRE SUND, and begin the rebuilding process.
LARRY LEFT NUT LOPEZ
May 21st, 2010
9:40 am
*is another experiment
de investigator
May 21st, 2010
9:41 am
you are right, hawks will get a white coach
HarveyPritchard
May 21st, 2010
9:44 am
Joe Johnson DOES NOT DESERVE MAX MONEY, but because of the players in the league that are being paid disproportionately and being overpaid (like Jermain O’Neal($23Million/season)); its hard to find the right number for Joe without cheating him out of what he deserves. I know this: Joe Johnson is twice as good as Jermaine O’Neal, so if you look at O’Neals salary, then Joe should be worth $46 million per season. If you did that it would throw the entire Hawks salary structure out of whack. I know Joe should make double what Oneal makes because Joe is at least twice as good as Jermaine Oneal.
True Hawks Fan
May 21st, 2010
9:50 am
Michael Cunningham, I would like to see your mock draft. Or at least 1st and 2nd round Hawks picks/analysis.
O'Brien
May 21st, 2010
9:53 am
This might be a conspiracy theory, but I think Sund and the ASG have no intention of hiring Avery, but at least they are interviewing him. I think Casey has been the favorite all along, and I will be surprised if its not Casey. (I can’t put a finger on why, but I’m not impressed by Casey).
Avery seems like a great regular season coach, but I’m not impressed by his playoff record. However, I think hiring Avery would add more credibility (financial and otherwise) to the Hawks. Plus he might be a better recruit for free agents (COY, been to the NBA finals as a coach, won a ring as a player under Popovich, above .700 winning percentage in the regular season, ESPN analyst).
Is he the right coach? I don’t know. But I would still like to see Thibodeau get an interview. He has some head coaching responsibilites with Boston, and he has worked 3 years for Doc Rivers, who speaks very highly of him. Plus Thibodeau’s teams are consistently known for their defense.
Najeh,
Good coaching is key, especially to second round players. I think if Salim was drafted by a team like the Spurs or Jazz, he could have been a poor man’s Eddie House off the bench. Hopefully our GM and our next coach will be able to help our second round picks (I think we have 2 next year) maximize their talent.
Ramon
May 21st, 2010
10:05 am
O’brien I’m for Thibodeau. Only problem is it may take 3-4 weeks to hire him or interview him because more than like LA and Boston are heading towards a 7 game series that will take 2 weeks alone.
de investigator
May 21st, 2010
10:05 am
WHAT COACH EVER SPOKE POORLY OF HIS ASSISTANT COACH?
COACHES CAN ONLY DIAGRAM PLAYS AND THERE ARE NO NEW PLAYS. EVERY KNOWS THE PICK AND ROLL BUT PHOENIX AND UTAH MASTER IT NOT BECAUSE OF THE COACH BUT BECAUSE OF PLAYERS EXECUTING THE PLAY AND WORKING HARD PLUS HAVING THE TALENT.
IN THE WORDS OF MUHAMMAD ALI:
“CHAMPIONS ARE MADE FROM SOMETHING INSIDE.YOU MUST HAVE THE TALENT AND THE WILL, BUT THE WILL HAS TO BE GREATER THAN THE TALENT”
HAWKS HAVE LIMITED TALENT( THIRD STRING ALL NBA PLAYER SOON TO BE FORMER HAWK) AND NO WILL.
Ramon
May 21st, 2010
10:07 am
Also O’Brien if the Hawks wait to try and add Thibodeau and ends up in a bidding war for him with another team (Chicago? New Jersey?), we know the Hawks will not win that war. So who will they have to turn to then?
de investigator
May 21st, 2010
10:07 am
EVERY ONE KNOWS THE PICK AND ROLL
de investigator
May 21st, 2010
10:10 am
Thibodeau is a project assistant coach who may be a good fit for a team that has highschool college or very young players like chicago or NJ but he would get no respect from seasoned veteran like the hawks who wont have JJ next year and whose talent level is already suspect.
TIME TO REBUILD
de investigator
May 21st, 2010
10:14 am
THIBODEAU IS AN ASSISTANT COACH WHO WOULD BE AN PROJECT AN WOULD GET VERY LITTLE RESPECT FROM SEASONED VETERANS. HED WORK BETTER WITH HIGH SCHOOLERS WHOD BE IMPRESSED THAT HE MADE THE PROS.
BOB
May 21st, 2010
10:15 am
Look, its either me or Lon kruger! take your pick!
BOB Wiess
May 21st, 2010
10:16 am
Bob Weiss, I havent forgotten my play book
BOB Wiess
May 21st, 2010
10:16 am
is that lon or freddy kruger?
BOB Wiess
May 21st, 2010
10:19 am
I WANT MY JOB BACK!!!! WHY ISNT MY NAME BEING FLOATED AROUND? IM BETTER THAN THYROID OR THIBODEAU OR WHAT EVER THE HEIL HIS NAME IS.
BOB Weiss
May 21st, 2010
10:20 am
Bob, Bob Weiss, thats the ticket
GumbyWilliams
May 21st, 2010
10:24 am
I know this article is about Joe Johnson but I am disturbed about what the Hawks have always gotten, will be getting, and will continue to get from MARVIN WILLIAMS. The Hawks are getting absolutely NOTHING from that guy. In fact, I’ll go on record right now and say this, a skeleton in a science lab or a store manequin will deliver more than Marvin Williams on the basketball court. For Marvin Williams to draw nba salaries and paychecks; that in my mind is highway robbery.
da investigator
May 21st, 2010
10:24 am
why dont we get a high school coach? Better yet snatch one out of park and rec. WTF we gonna rebuild any way,
Bob Weiss
May 21st, 2010
10:26 am
fccck you and marvin william I dont need no talent Im a franchise coach, builld around me mudder frocker.
POKEY
May 21st, 2010
10:31 am
Has any body seen my Charlie Pride Greatest hit collection?
LARRY LEFT NUT LOPEZ
May 21st, 2010
10:34 am
MIKE CON & HAM IS BOB WEISS BEING CONSIDER?
JOE JOHNSON
May 21st, 2010
10:37 am
GUYS ITS BEEN REAL, AND ITS BEEN NICE, BUT IT AINT BEEN REAL NICE! GOOD LUCK WITH THE REBUILDING PROJECT AND YES, BOB WEISS GETS MY VOTE TOO.
Grandad
May 21st, 2010
10:43 am
How does the ” Mad Hatter ” get his dung through
the filter & yet other serious bloggers complain
about the ” blog monster ” all the time.
Myself included.
ryan
May 21st, 2010
10:47 am
I don’t get a team like Dallas is over the cap but yet they spend money and make trades they will keep Dirk and still get Chris Bosh who is from there. I just do not now why the Hawks will spend money Spirit said when they took they were going to put a champion on the court. Well that was the a big scam.
Ramon
May 21st, 2010
10:48 am
Grandad its because its Michael Gearon, and he’s bored in his board meeting. lol.
Blog Monster
May 21st, 2010
10:48 am
I dont think the Mad Hatter realizes that guys like me and you control the thoughts on this site. There is no freedom of speech it more like think as I do or else.
FIRE SUND
Ramon
May 21st, 2010
10:54 am
Hey, I have a question. How is it that Larry Bird isn’t feeling any kind of heat on his job? Its been about 5-6 seasons since the Pacers were really a factor in anything. They’re an annual lottery team, and yet no one is saying anything about his job security.
da investigator
May 21st, 2010
10:55 am
I have to agree with both ramon( Michael Gearon is the Mad Hatter) and with ryan, the hawks wont spend the money to build a championship team. Its all about talented players making the coach look good.
No Pokey, I havent seen your Charlie Pride Greatest Hits. Why dont we ask Grandad, it is music from his day.
Grandad do you have pokey’s Charlie Pride Greatest Hits?
da investigator
May 21st, 2010
10:56 am
Larry Bird is White and hes like a God.
cp
May 21st, 2010
11:05 am
I just read this morning the Hawks will interview Mark Jackson…. The rumor about Avery is that he wants to be not only the coach of the Hornets but also the VP of basketball operations. I don’t know if he has told every team he wants to be VP but they say he wants too much power.
O'Brien
May 21st, 2010
11:06 am
@ Ramon,
Good Question. Here is another one. Why hasn’t Joe Dumars been feeling more heat? He drafted Darko instead of some other guys who are perennial all stars, he traded away Chauncey Billups for Allen Iverson, and then he used up all his cap space to sign Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva. And he’s on his third coach in 3 years.
I know they won a ring, but that was a long time ago.
bigdave
May 21st, 2010
11:18 am
Dwane Casey the Frontrunner for Hawks?
Posted: 5/21/2010 8:43:00 AM
Source: Ken Berger of CBSSports.com
Former Timberwolves coach Dwane Casey has the inside track for the Atlanta Hawks’ job, three sources familiar with the situation told CBSSports.com Thursday.
Casey, an assistant for Rick Carlisle on the Dallas bench who’s attracted interest from several teams in the market for a coach, has a strong relationship with Hawks GM Rick Sund from their days in Seattle together. Plus, considering the likelihood that Casey would fit under the Hawks’ $2 million annual budget for a head coach, it looks like “his job to lose,” one of the sources said. Casey and the Hawks’ brass were planning to discuss the opening in Chicago during the pre-draft camp this week.
Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/HeadlineStories.asp?lc=NBA&c=1&TEAM_ID=&PLAYER_ID=&hd=20100521#STORY_26191#ixzz0oZrg9GYe
darrell starks
May 21st, 2010
11:37 am
Asg can just keep it simple and still build a good team, i was wondering how much in there budget are ASG willing 2 spend, but at the same time there no doubt luxury tax can’t be and issue.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!
WTF
May 21st, 2010
11:39 am
Why hasn’t Elston Turner been interviewed for the Head Coaching Job yet? He’s been with rick Adleman for over 9 years. He uses Rick’s Read and React offense and desings the defesive schemes for Rick as well. RICK YOU BETTER INTERVIEW THIS GUY!
Turner and Merjle should be the front runners. Along with Marc Jackson.
We Need OFFENSE BABY!!!
WTF
May 21st, 2010
11:41 am
Dwayne who? Yeah because Carlisle has had TONS of post season success.I’m sure Casey would LOVE to run JJ ISO’s just like the guy he was under in seattle Nate McMillan. UGH!
NEXT!!!
WTF
May 21st, 2010
11:43 am
Tom Thibideau??? Guess we have to wait till they finish in the ECF. They get a week off befor the finals so thet’ll be a good time to interview him. He should also be a frontrunner for the job.
darrell starks
May 21st, 2010
11:45 am
Casey in my opinion is not the answer but sometime people opinion could be a tap over board when it come 2 valuing the ability of a coach, but like i have always said AVERY woul be my first choice.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
The Flash
May 21st, 2010
11:45 am
Gearon’s ambivolence about resigning JJ proves what I’ve been saying all along–he created a false crisis by insisting that Phoenix would match unless they got the two one-picks in order to pick a fight with Belkin. Now that Belkin is gone, and even after JJ delivered, Gearon doesn’t want to pay him? Laughable.
Only, I don’t think that JJ is going to be all that attractive to other teams in the open market and here’s why. Actually, for those of you who were around when I used to be, this is no news. JJ kills offense in the half court because he occupies the ball and does nothing meaningful to help anyone else when he doesn’t have it. The next time he clears space, or simply gives it up easily without looking first for “his” will be the first.
No offenses can function optimally when the ball stops and stays in one guy’s hands so often, with the possible exception of break-dwon guards like Paul and Williams, but I do not think that even they occupy ball as much as JJ. So who will want to bring in a guy who is going to make everyone else on his team step back two or three steps in order to play with him? Not a team on the cusp of making a move, is my guess, and they are the ones who would pay the big bucks.
Nope, I don’t think that JJ is going to be particularly attractive in the off season. I just don’t see the team, the coach, who will want to build its offense around a ball occupier, no matter how good a scorer.
I might be surprised but I doubt that JJ’s old coach would be particularly interested in him for precisely the reason that Phoenix let him go in the first place which is the reason that I’ve just stated.
So, there will be a real temptation to resign JJ because the upward salary pressure will not be there. I would resist that pressure if I were the Hawks, and should not be surprised if Gearon does. Nor will I be surprised if no one from the Atlanta media questions Gearon about why he went out and literally gave away the farm for this guy during Atlanta’s building years, gave it away unnecessarily, and now that he is a proven scorer and All Star he doesn’t want to pay him.
Gearon would probably recite some drivel about how he needed JJ hear to attrack other signees, one would have to ask exactly who those signees might be of course but the media will never ask, and might even say something really disingenuous like JJ was at his best in Woodson’s system and now that Woodson is gone, we are looking to run more, yadayadayada.
The reality is that Gearon is likely not to resign JJ because he, JJ, has served his purpose, he got Gearon the team, and it is now time to make a straight up business decision, unlike at the beginning when the decision was filled with intrigue. Now that Atlanta has a real life and talented GM, in contrast to the puppet they had when the false drama around the JJ deal went down, the GM will prevail and JJ will be cut loose.
Even if Atlanta were to take a step back for a year in the immediate wake of JJ’s absence, depending who they sign that might very well not happen, its longterm success will be best served, in my view. They cannot win with the constraints that JJ imposes on the half court game and cannot run with him on the floor either.
By the way, if JJ is gone, I think that Williams immediately becomes a much more effective offensive weapon. He is precisely the type of forward that with or without the ball creates space and opportunities for others. Without JJ around, he will get many more touches in rhythm and be a much more effective scorer and creator for others.
If they let JJ go, look for them to keep Williams. Both together would be good moves.
By the way, if they had followed my advice on this board, they’d have had Steve Blake at lead guard for nothing the past years, Roy at shooting guard for a fraction of what they paid JJ, and Big Baby as anything he says. You add those guys to this team and you’d still be playing, right. I advocated for all three moves on this very board. Later.
Mike is Back
May 21st, 2010
11:49 am
MC, well we can write AJohnson off the list…he wants more than we can offer. I see where he is seeking dual roles…no chance of that happening here…I guess it will be Casey.
V
May 21st, 2010
11:50 am
The Hawks should trade Joe Johnson straight up for Dirk Norwinski provided Mark Cubin will approve that trade. That would make the Hawks instant contenders to make it to either the Eastern Conference Finals or the NBA Finals. Since Joe is so anxious to leave, let him leave but make damn sure you are getting at least equal value in return.
Todd
May 21st, 2010
11:55 am
Of all the potential candidates out there, I think the Hawks management should seriously take a look to Columbus native, former Mercer stand-out and NBA Coach of the year, Sam Mitchell. He’s a role model in terms of hustle, commitment and character.
PaulWinchester
May 21st, 2010
12:00 pm
Of all the potential candidates out there, I think the Hawks management should seriously take a look at Isiah Rider. Enough Said.
WTF
May 21st, 2010
12:05 pm
I think we should bring Sam Mitchell in as a Top assistant coach to either Elston Turner or Tom Thibedeau. Mitchell isn’t a great X’s and O’s guy but he’s great with players and has a no nonsese attitude and holds his players accountable. What have the Raptors done since he’s left? Calderon and T.J Ford look lost now. I also love his no layup policy, nothing pi$$ed him off more than his players giving up luyups lol.
da investigator
May 21st, 2010
12:07 pm
Bob, Bob Weiss, thats the ticket
WTF
May 21st, 2010
12:10 pm
Contrary to everything that’s out there, the Hawks are not looking to low-ball their new coach. If that were true, why would Avery Johnson (coming off a $4.5 million per Mavericks contract) agree to be interviewed? Why go through the process if he knows Atlanta won’t go any higher than the $2 million bogus number being circulated?
Maybe Dwane Casey and other assistants/start-up coaches (Dean Demopoulos /Mark Jackson) can’t command more than $2 million, but there’s probably another million or more on tap for someone like Johnson, who has been to the Finals.
According to fountains of misinformation, Casey is favored to fill vacancies with the Clippers and Hawks before even interviewing for either. L.A. continues to wait for Larry Brown to pick up one and leave the other behind (Bobcats or Paper Clips) now that it appears Doug Collins and the 76ers have reached an agreement.
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/abusing_amar_EWi6bwXq2q8aUcONz84WqL#ixzz0oa541jh4
Najeh Davenpoop
May 21st, 2010
12:17 pm
When they trade for Norwinski, should they ask for Karen Butler too?
darrell starks
May 21st, 2010
12:19 pm
MY CHOICE OF COACH IN ORDER
1.AVERY JOHNSON
2.BRYON SCOTT
3.BILL LAIMBEER
4.SAM MITCHELL
5.MICHAEL COOPER
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
Najeh Davenpoop
May 21st, 2010
12:21 pm
Out of all the names that have been thrown around, Thibodeau and Turner are the ones that impress me the most… of course, in true Hawks form, neither one even seems to be on the interview list.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 21st, 2010
12:26 pm
Dumars and Bird should both be on the hot seat. I wonder, looking at them, Kevin McHale, Elgin Baylor, and Isiah Thomas — all former superstars who were ineffective as GMs (although Dumars was great for his first five years on the job) — whether team owners have a tendency to give longer leashes to players with better resumes on the court.
O'Brien
May 21st, 2010
12:43 pm
Najeh,
I’ve been on the ‘Thibodeau deserves an interview” badwagon for a while, and I’m open to Turner too (he spent 9 years with Rick Adelman, who I think is a really good coach).
Brandon Roy was drafted by Portland, and he signed a 5 year $82 mil extension. JJ was signed by the Hawks and given 5 years, $70 mil, after we traded 2 first round picks, and Boris Diaw, and our ownership is in a fight because of the JJ signing.
Although JJ is healthier than Roy, Roy is younger, and I think Roy is the fourth best SG in the league, behind Kobe, Wade, and JJ.
So if I’m the Hawks, I’m making an offer to JJ at 12:01 July 1 in the 5 years, $85 – $90 mil range. But I would not offer him the max that the Hawks can offer (I think its 6 years, $119 mil with raises taken into account).
GonzoPalmeter
May 21st, 2010
12:46 pm
The Hawks should hire Mike Brown, currently coach of the Cleveland Cavs as their next head coach. Brown over the last 2 seasons has records of 66-16, and 61-21 respectively, tops in the league. No coach can boast of comparable records over a 2 game stretch including Phil Jackson, Greg Popovich and Lenny Wilkins. BROWN WILL BE FIRED BEFORE THE END OF THE WEEKEND, SO THE HAWKS SHOULD FLY HIM INTO ATLANTA, INTERVIEW HIM AND OFFER HIM THE JOB BEFORE SOMEONE ELSE TAKES HIM.
Navigator
May 21st, 2010
1:08 pm
Mike Brown is probably the best candidate out there (if he gets released). He was able to get Cleveland to play together as a team, already one step up from where the Hawks are now. J.J. is what he was when he came here, a player that won’t be on a championship team for his whole career. There are J. J.’s spread all over the league, and every 2-4 years they change teams, because the new team thinks they can change the personality and attitude, but that never happens. Ball hogs will now and forever be ball hogs, period.
Big Ray
May 21st, 2010
1:10 pm
I see somebody let the village muck raker loose on the blog this morning…
Grandad
May 21st, 2010
1:13 pm
da investigator: [alias / ' 'Hatter' ']
“Grandad do you have pokey’s Charlie Pride Greatest Hits?”
Naw, but I have ‘ Conway Twitty’s ‘ – ”greatest hits” !
I do have Charlie Pride’s single [45] wax,
” kiss an Angel Good Mornin’ ”
thanks for askin’.
Grandad
May 21st, 2010
1:19 pm
Big Ray:
I have a mental image:
He’s blogging away while three guys
are chasing him with butterfly nets.
MadHatter
May 21st, 2010
1:19 pm
I know this is going to sound silly but MARVIN WILLIAMS SHOULD BE OFFERED THE COACHING JOB OF THE ATLANTA HAWKS. MARVIN IS DOING ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN BALL GAMES AND IM SURE HE IS BORED TO DEATH. Put Marvin in the front office and get Marvin to make himself useful as the next head coach for the Atlanta Hawks.
Big Ray
May 21st, 2010
2:01 pm
The Flash ,
Been a long time since I’ve heard that voice. You still speakin’ the truth…
Grandad ,
That is too funny…
Grandad
May 21st, 2010
2:03 pm
I’ve tried to post about Ryan Richards @ the combine
6 or 8 times. The ‘Blog Gobbler’ is eating everything
I post. He’s interesting.
nique
May 21st, 2010
2:07 pm
great analysis actually backed up by the objective. pretty hard to conclude that the hawks would be better off in the short term without jj. makes the coaching selection critical to the hawks chances of taking it to the next level. sure hope they pick someone who can motivate these guys and teach them to play d.
Grandad
May 21st, 2010
2:14 pm
Why in the crap do they let manure on here
all the time and I can’t post simple info
about Ryan Richards?
Grandad
May 21st, 2010
2:16 pm
RR
6-11
euro from England
tremendous wingspan
lefty
Afro – English
Grandad
May 21st, 2010
2:18 pm
AH Ha !!!
Got it on.
Illiterate
but
sneaked it through
succinct.
dap01
May 21st, 2010
2:20 pm
If Woody had LeBron, he would be a good of a coach as Mike Brown.
MadHatter
May 21st, 2010
2:45 pm
I remember when the playoffs started everybody in the media was IMPRESSED with the Orlando Magic saying they were much improved from last year because they now that Vince “the Price”; “Half Man Half Amazing” Carter and therefore their team is better than it was last year. My response to that was any team that has Vince Carter on it will be dragged down into the gutter. I was right! Vince was on the line the other night and forgot how to make free throws as he hoisted up his two BRICK shots missing badly. Shades of Nick Anderson blowing a finals series for the Magic decades ago. The Magic are a much better team with Heidu Turkelu and Rafer Alsten instead of Vince Carter. Vince is one of the most pathetic, underachieving, wannabe basketball players Ive ever seen. His legacy will be that he comes up small in the big games and ALWAYS CHOKES IN CRUCH TIME. Heidu Turkelu, on the other hand, will make the Hall of Fame as a first ballot hall of famer. The Magic made it to the finals last year primarily because of one man: Heidu Turkelu. Without Turkelu this year, the MAGIC WONT MAKE IT TO THE FINALS. Heidu, according to very reliable basketball sources, including myself, is one of the TOP FIVE SKILLED BASKETBALL PLAYERS IN THE NATIONAL BASKETBALL ASSOCIATION. The Magic were too cheap to give Heidu a decent contract and therefore they will miss the finals this year because they were too stingy with their money to continue progressing and getting better. The Magic front office was too dumb and stupid to recognize Turkelu’s value and now the Magic are missing the Magic that Turkelu brought to their team.
Michael Cunningham
May 21st, 2010
2:48 pm
@Grandad: online folks tell me you had trouble posting a comment. i couldn’t find it in the filter, so not sure what happened. all of your other comments seem to be posting fine. anyway, wanted to let you know i did try.
Grandad
May 21st, 2010
2:50 pm
Joe Mama = ”Hatter”
I never said:
Of whom I was speaking.
Also, I never said:
”LMAO”
CajunStorm
May 21st, 2010
2:52 pm
PG – Teague/Bibby
SG – Joe Johnson
SF – LeBron James
PF – Josh Smith
C – Al Horford
Bench
PG – Teague/Bibby
SF – Maurice Evans
PF/C – Zaza Pachulia
PF/C – Zydrunas Illgaskus (mid-level exception)
This = NBA Championship! why is this not discudssed. The Hawks have the pieces to make this work. Jamal Crawford (20pts/game and expiring contract), Marvin Williams and a draft pick in a sign and trade for LBJ. LeBron, if leaving, is not going to a team that traded their A pieces in order to get him and he wouldn’t want to leave Cleveland with nothing. NO OTHER TEAM can offer this to Cleveland and LeBron couldn’t find a better scenario than this still young team. We would still be under the dang luxury tax until Al resigns and then everyone is locked up for 5+ years to try to get 2-4 rings.
ASG…Phillips would be packed every night AND most importantly ya’ll would actually make MONEY!!! Push this folks!!! It SHOULD happen!!!
BigCaliDawg
May 21st, 2010
2:52 pm
JJ let his mouth write a check his a*s couldn’t cash. Both he and Woody helped get us to where we are today, but I feel that JJ will have a career similar to that of Jamaal, in that he will produce within the midst of mediocrity. We need to get him up out with the quickness.
We need a banger. We need a banger. Not Joe Smith, Not Collins, we need a big body who ain’t scerd. He need only rebound, bloody noses, and not become incarcerated. That is all.
Grandad
May 21st, 2010
2:55 pm
Measurements are in – TS you’ll enjoy this:
Aldrich only 6-9…6-11+ (shoes) [lifts]
Stanley Robinson only 6-6+
Luke Babbitt only 6-4+
Their draft stock just went South.
Still perusing / back later !
Grandad
May 21st, 2010
3:02 pm
Thanks Michael / I snuck it thru ! (dif. wording, sorta)
Keep up the good work, I don’t blame you.
Hey, see if Mr. Sund has any interest in Tom Thibodeau?
mario
May 21st, 2010
3:07 pm
hey cunningham…if sund said he would sign lebron and go over kuxury tax..why no sign DWade..he wanted to leave miami. and the hawks w/o joe are better than the heat.so Wade would love toplay here… .so put wade on the hawks and we become legit title contenders wit a new coach ..(avery johnson).
mario
May 21st, 2010
3:10 pm
also get rid of mo evans..every time he is on the break in a big game…he either misses the layin or gets blocked…we can get more out 2.5 million…
Grandad
May 21st, 2010
3:12 pm
Joe Mama – You who?
Ramon
May 21st, 2010
3:24 pm
Am I the only one who thinks Channing Frye will be overrated and overpaid this summer when he’s a free agent? I truly hope its not Atlanta who overpays for him.
O'Brien
May 21st, 2010
3:31 pm
Grandad,
SF is the position I would look at first, and the hawks may need to look at SGs too, just in case they lose jj or trade Crawford. I wonder if ‘big game’sJames Anderson will be an option at 224.
the good thing is there are free agent options for the hawks to look at. Rick sund jut has to make the right signing.
Grandad
May 21st, 2010
3:31 pm
Luke Babbitt amended – 6-7.5 (socks) / almost 6-9(shoes)
Ramon:
I’m sure he stays with PHX.
He’s found a home. [Frye]
Dexter Pittman’s brother shot to death,
last eve. (Houston, Tx) Prayers everyone.
northcyde
May 21st, 2010
3:40 pm
mario
May 21st, 2010
3:07 pm
hey cunningham…if sund said he would sign lebron and go over kuxury tax..why no sign DWade..he wanted to leave miami. and the hawks w/o joe are better than the heat.so Wade would love toplay here… .so put wade on the hawks and we become legit title contenders wit a new coach ..(avery johnson).
********************
Mario . . he said IF he could sign Lebron, he’d go over the Luxury Tax. We can only get one of those big named stars if we sign and traded for them, And any sign and trade for a big star would mean the immediate trade of Josh Smith and at least one other high salary player. And we would have to hope that the big star WANTS TO COME TO ATLANTA, instead of those other places.
Any team involved in a sign and trade with us, would probably want both Josh Smith and Al Horford. If we did that, why would Lebron want to come to ATL, when he could go to Chicago and play with a better team?
JoJo the Godfather
May 21st, 2010
3:43 pm
Is Cousins impressive enough for the Hawks to trade Josh Smith for Yi Jianlian and the 3rd pick in the draft? It would save the Hawks $4M in salary, would move Horford to PF, would give us a 7-ft finesse PF off the bench in Yi, and Cousins could back up Pachulia with someone like Johan Petro signed for depth.
Teague / Bibby / #24 Pick
Johnson / Crawford
Williams / Childress
Horford / Jianlian
Pachulia / Cousins / Petro
newkid
May 21st, 2010
3:44 pm
A cameo by ‘The Flash’? Still keeping it real I see. Flash, what’s the sentiment in DC with respect to Agent Zero’s departure with the anticipated arrival of The Great Wall? Any insight on who Ernie might entice (Mark Cuban?) to take on that huge contract and bad pub?
Big Ray
May 21st, 2010
3:55 pm
What is the Red District, and why is they attaching my name to it? Whoever is asking me clearly knows more about it than I do…
Newkid ,
I say “good luck” to Grunfield where Arenas is concerned. That’s a lose-lose situation all the way around, but they stand to lose worse if he sticks around. Better get ready to bite the bullet.
Who is suggesting we must rebuild? Even if we lose Joe, we’re not rebuilding (though re-tooling will not be easy). Dang, all we did is change coaches. Personally, I see that as a positive…
Ramon
May 21st, 2010
4:03 pm
Jojo the answer to your question—-NO! lol.
Cousin may turn out to be a great player. But something about him to me screams Derrick Coleman.
Ramon
May 21st, 2010
4:05 pm
Newkid, I wish Sund could turn Bibby, Marvin, and the 1st round pick into Arenas. I’d take that deal all day long.
CajunStorm
May 21st, 2010
4:07 pm
Jamal Crawford, Marvin Williams and a pick in a sign and trade for LeBron!!!! If he leaves! I’m gonna keep saying it until my Jedi Mind Trick powers kick in!!!
CajunStorm
May 21st, 2010
4:09 pm
Re-sign JJ and get Avery and after the above sign and trade we have a championship caliber team better than ANY other scenario LBJ has….including staying in Cleveland.
JoJo the Godfather
May 21st, 2010
4:10 pm
Ramon,
So you just have a feeling that Cousins will not play D, will have attitude & motivation problems his whole career, and will gain a bunch of weight and be out of the league in less than 10 yrs???
Also, I have to question your opinion now that you say you would give up players, a pick, and take on additional salary all for Arenas. That’s just crazy.
newkid
May 21st, 2010
4:11 pm
Big Ray,
Cuban’s loaded and always looking to ‘buy’ talent rather than develop it. With Dampier’s expiring and change, he might just go for a pitch that puts Zero in the backcourt with Kidd, along with a front line of Bulter, Haywood (re-signed), and Dirk. Just imagine the ‘wild west’ marketing opportunities that would await Zero in the rough and tumble land of Dallas cowboys and Texas rangers. Zero would be a legend upon arrival.
newkid
May 21st, 2010
4:14 pm
Ramon, you’re kidding right?
Grandad
May 21st, 2010
4:21 pm
O’Brien:
James Anderson / has been talked about alot on ESPNU
@ draft combine. Wierd how they sit and talk…You see
very little drills, lots of John Wall hype & interview.
NBAdraft.net had a funny line – Interesting 3 minutes;
watching Solomon Alabi drink blue gator-aide.
Read some good stuff on my guy ‘Xavier Henry’ on:
NBAdraft.net [his shooting] + measured he well 6-6.5 (shoes)
Probably have to trade up to 10 – 15 range to get him.
He worked out with SG’s. (lefty)
I think if we could trade up he would be a steal @ 8 or below !
Think Michael Redd.
One service has us looking @ Mikhail Torrance.
Grandad
May 21st, 2010
4:22 pm
*he measured well
not
*measured he well
JoJo the Godfather
May 21st, 2010
4:27 pm
Grandad, I like Mikhail Torrance or Dominique Jones at 24. Combo guards that can help with depth immediately. Jones plays good D and is not afraid to drive the lane and draw a foul. 3rd in NCAA in drawing fouls I believe. Torrance is a little more skilled offensively.
Diary of a 7th place finish
May 21st, 2010
4:27 pm
Teague / Bibby / #24 Pick
Johnson / Crawford
Williams / Childress
Horford / Jianlian
maybe 8th place
Pachulia / Cousins / Petro
Now you know, the rest of the story
May 21st, 2010
4:32 pm
And any sign and trade for a big star would mean the immediate trade of Al Horford and at least one other high salary player.
Grandad
May 21st, 2010
4:33 pm
Ramon just when I think I’ve got you straightened out,
You go & say the most illogical thing I can think of.
You say something bright:
”Cousins”
then you go all barmy:
”Arenas”
whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Ramon
May 21st, 2010
4:34 pm
Jojo, you’re not adding that much salary on when when Bibby and Marvin’s combine salary is $14 mil, and that’s not including the season where Marvin will be making over $8 mil. Arenas is scheduled to make $17 mil next season. so you’re adding $3 mil to your salary total next season, and changing two of the weakest positions on your squad into an all star who still managed to average over 20 ppg and 6 apg coming off injury. So yea I would consider it and I would probably take a chance if JJ resigned.
I rest my case
May 21st, 2010
4:37 pm
“You go & say the most illogical thing I can think of”
jay dubu
May 21st, 2010
4:37 pm
The NBA’s CBA makes it impossible to improve your team, other than through the draft. What they should do is fix the loophole that allowed Big Z (although, it didn’t seem to matter) to go back to the Cavs after the trade. And how is it that the Lakers were able to get Gasol from Memphis, for pratically nothing?
newkid
May 21st, 2010
4:37 pm
Gotta have the proper mix of buying (if you can afford it) and growing your own Blast; it’s about balance, unless you’re the Boss, Cuban, or a few of the other fat cats. If you exclusively buy (generally at exceeding high prices), you have no a priori assurance the on-court chemistry will work. You sometimes get just a collection of talented and expensive individual pieces with no Phil Jackson to make it all work. If you exclusively grow your own, you get the Clippers. Put me down for balance.
Ramon
May 21st, 2010
4:39 pm
Grandad, when it comes to trading Josh, a player who is constantly working on his game on his own, for Cousins who many consider to be 3 or 4 years away from being able to contribute consistently, then yea I would dismiss that. And rather JJ is here or not, Arenas is the type of personality (if remains healthy) that the culture of Atlanta would come out to see.
now you know...the rest of the story
May 21st, 2010
4:40 pm
hey cunningham…if sund said he would sign lebron and go over kuxury tax..why no sign DWade..he wanted to leave miami. and the hawks w/o joe are better than the heat.so Wade would love toplay here…
We could have had Amare!@ he was on the blocks too!
now you know...the rest of the story
May 21st, 2010
4:42 pm
jay dubu
May 21st, 2010
4:37 pm
The NBA’s CBA makes it impossible to improve your team, other than through the draft. What they should do is fix the loophole that allowed Big Z (although, it didn’t seem to matter) to go back to the Cavs after the trade. And how is it that the Lakers were able to get Gasol from Memphis, for pratically nothing?
Good GM’s and owners figure out a way…weve got Sund-of-a-bytch! aint shyyt happening!
Ramon
May 21st, 2010
4:42 pm
Grandad, I don’t know why but with Arenas, I see Moss and New England. Sometimes you have to take a gamble.
Grandad
May 21st, 2010
4:47 pm
Jerome Jordan’s stock will be going up.
7′+ / 7-5.5 w-span / destroyed Whiteside in drills.
per – tweet/twitter/twit/whatever that sheet is called.
drmaryb
May 21st, 2010
4:49 pm
Ramon
Thank You for squashing that JoJo – ISH! School is out for the summer, so all the 15 year old kids will be surfing the sports blogs now – Lord – please have mercy on us grown folks!
Josh for Yi? Gee Wiz!
As far as Arenas? I have always liked his game! I know he pulled a silly prank in Washington, DC. That was poor judgement on his part – especially after what that football player from the Giants did (aawwhh whays his name?) The Super Bowl wide reciever? Plexico Burress? Anyway, Arenas is a good guy who did a dumb thing!
I would like him here (Sorry Blue-Ray), but, we need some THUG on our soft azz team!
I wouldn’t trade Josh for Nobody though!
newkid
May 21st, 2010
4:53 pm
Really strong team culture and player leadership, really strong ownership, really strong coaching in New England. Much more likely that Patriots could fairly safely absorb a Moss, than it is that a rudderless Hawks could absorb a Zero. Horford and Crawford could handle, a few would ignore (so no chemistry whatsoever), and others would be influenced to their and the team’s detriment.
For a similar reason, Avery Johnson is likely not a good fit here. Avery’s personality is too strong for ownership (both individually and as a group), GM, AND players. Don’t think we’re ready yet for that sort of strength. If they’re smart, the ASG won’t start a brush fire they and the organization aren’t prepared to contain. Avery won’t stand for mediocrity, and our recent past is all about mediocrity.
STEEL (Formerly VenomSpitter)
May 21st, 2010
4:58 pm
I think we need to draft Mikhail Torrance
you bet
May 21st, 2010
5:02 pm
Avery is mediocrity
you bet
May 21st, 2010
5:04 pm
There were only 17 centers who defended the rim better than Horford!
drmaryb
May 21st, 2010
5:04 pm
NewKid
Great & Insightful post at 453 PM today. Very nice read on your perspective. Mmmmmh.
Ramon
May 21st, 2010
5:06 pm
Newkid, I understand what you’re saying. But keep in mind, Caron’s flame out in Dallas, and Jamison’s disappearing act in Cleveland shows you that it was really ARENAS who took the Wizards from the mess that Collins and MJ left them in, and turned them into a playoff team 3-4 seasons in a row.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 21st, 2010
5:10 pm
“Am I the only one who thinks Channing Frye will be overrated and overpaid this summer when he’s a free agent? I truly hope its not Atlanta who overpays for him.”
You’re not the only one. Anyone in Phoenix’s system is at least somewhat overrated. In fact, the only player I can think of who left Phoenix and continued to play at a level as high or higher than he did there is Joe Johnson. Marion, Q. Richardson, Diaw, Raja Bell… the list goes on, and will only lengthen when someone signs Amare to a max deal this offseason and finds out that his offensive abilities were inflated by Nash and his defense is subpar.
Grandad
May 21st, 2010
5:14 pm
Ramon – I’m gonna work with you…okay.
1st I don’t know what you’re talkin’about with Josh?
I don’t want to trade *Josh.
*editorial – G-dads T.o.t.D. sometimes does not reflect
Grandad’s real way o’ doin’ things.
They’re ideas to promote thought & exchange ideas.
Now back to Ramon:
Cousins – I’m with you…he’s a ”nut”.
Arenas – he’s a ”nut” also.
So if you don’t want Cousins, logic demands,
you don’t want Arenas !
Either one will destroy your locker room
and I don’t mean – they will paint graffiti
on the walls. Well they might do that too.
I hope you get my point.
Team = chemistry = good teammates = not shooting one another =
trust = not wanting to let your teammates down = cooperation =
sacrifice for a common goal = putting teammates first = TEAM =
newkid
May 21st, 2010
5:14 pm
Thanks drmaryb.
News from the combine. ‘The Beat’ (Paul George) continues to make an impression.
“Of the small forwards, Paul George stood out the most. He can play either wing position and he has great size and strength. He has a solid jumper and is very athletic.”
Make it happen Sund.
O'Brien
May 21st, 2010
5:15 pm
If none of the class A free agents end up in new York, I think Knicks trade for arenas (using Eddie curry’s expiring contract and filler). That way, they could resign David Lee and sign one other class B free agent.
Grandad
May 21st, 2010
5:18 pm
newkid:
Paul George – measured @ nearly 6-9.
His stock will soar.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 21st, 2010
5:24 pm
“Grandad, I don’t know why but with Arenas, I see Moss and New England. Sometimes you have to take a gamble.”
Moss at his best is the greatest receiver in NFL history. Arenas at his best is still a ball hogging, shoot first point guard who has never advanced past the first round. Besides, basketball is unique in that adding a super talented player can actually hurt you if he hogs the ball and takes bad shots, which is why players like Stephon Marbury, Steve Francis, and Arenas never had any meaningful playoff success. In football, adding a super talented player like Moss may not necessarily help you, depending on the circumstance, but it definitely won’t make you worse.
terrell
May 21st, 2010
5:24 pm
Bosh narrows his preferrred teams down to Miami, LA, NY, and Chicago. I’m sure most FA’s would narrow it down to those 4 teams. They have the most $. And the Lakers are the Lakers. lol!
northcyde
May 21st, 2010
5:27 pm
And Gilbert Arenas hasn’t done any more in his career than Joe Johnson. That cat will flat out shoot you out of a game with his ill-advised shots.
Gilbert, like Crawford, is a volume shooter. When he’s hot, he’s virtually unstoppable. When he’s cold, he doesn’t have sense enough to go into playmaker mode, so he continues to shoot . . . and shoot the team right out of the game.
And people talk about JJ’s leadership abilities. What leadership abilities does Gilbert possess? He and Eddie Jordan couldn’t see eye to eye, because while Eddie wanted more ball movement, Gilbert only trusted himself . . and his streaky jumper.
That’s a dude that will NEVER win anything, unless he’s forced to play off the ball and take a secondary role in an offense.
Ramon
May 21st, 2010
5:29 pm
Grandad, Arenas made a stupid mistake. He’s not a bad person with a history of negative situations. Before this happened, there were no rumors of Arenas being a bad teammate or being bad in the locker room. I really believe Arenas did that out of a joke. And if anyone’s trying to label him as a thug, then they don’t know much about a thug. This incident is GREAT evidence that he’s not a thug or a violent type. Because a ‘thug’ (I have many thugs as friends and family) would know to NEVER pull out your weapon if you’re not going to use it, and to never threaten someone if you’re not shooting 5 seconds after. Arenas made one of those Barkley’s idiotic moves. But he’s still a great teammate from all the reports that have come out over the last 12 years.
Also, the difference between Cousins and Arenas is Arenas is an All Star who has been on an All NBA squad. So its hard for me not to consider adding him when it would only mean the subtraction of Marvin and Bibby.
Grandad
May 21st, 2010
5:30 pm
drmaryb:
I agree we need a Bad *Ass.
drmaryb (please pardon my language)
*I do not consider ass a cuss word.
But we need a knock down, drag out:
Charles Oakley clone.
So that when LbJ or Vince or D.wade, et al,
come traipsing down the middle of ”OUR” lane
then…they should be snot-knocked on their
collective heinies.
Just not one that would disrupt the ”Team Attitude”
within the locker room.
Ramon
May 21st, 2010
5:32 pm
Northcyde, are you telling me a backcourt featuring JJ and Arenas wouldn’t be deadly for opposing teams? And that wouldn’t leave even more mismatches for Smoove and Horford on the low blocks with a coach who knows how to run offensive sets? Arenas isn’t NEEDED, but he wouldn’t be a step in the wrong direction either. I’d still take Tony Parker over him. But if he was available I would take him.
Ramon
May 21st, 2010
5:38 pm
Grandad, Sekou said that about 2-3 seasons ago that the Hawks needed a ‘Goon’. He was lobbying for Antonio Davis at the time.
Grandad
May 21st, 2010
5:45 pm
Ramon:
He HAD a ”GUN” / ”WEAPON” in the locker room. PERIOD.
AGAINST the ”LAW”. Joke or not.
Ramon, you just cannot take that chance !
C’mon now, use reason.
I’m sure you like the guy.
Hey, I like Artest, but I would not bring him in here.
Rodman worked because, 1st Isiah, then Jordan,
both strong leaders kept him in line.
It’s kinda like wagering:
I never gamble, period.
Occasionally, I accept a bet or wager.
Notice I said I never ever gamble.
Now, do you think I must wager with my heart or my head?
I only accept … if I -KNOW- I will win.
Surprisingly, some folks still challenge.
I don’t know everything, hardly anything, as a matter of fact.
But, rarely do I wager. Yet I always win.
Use reason my young lad.
Grandad
May 21st, 2010
5:47 pm
Ramon – He lobbied for Artest as well.
northcyde
May 21st, 2010
5:49 pm
As for Cousins . . . if Hawk fans wouldn’t trade Smoove ( or Al ) for Cousins, then we’re not serious in balancing out the team. Cousins is a MONSTER, and his measurements at the combines show that if he measures out well athletically, that he could be an instant success in the NBA.
Cousins would immediately balance out the Hawks, and give us a big body who could go up against Dwight on both the offensive and defensive end. That exactly the kind of player that is needed on the Hawks, and possibly the kind of player that would allow a guy like Horford to take his game to the next level.
Jersey in the end, is actually going to be thankful that they didn’t get the #1 pick. Not because Wall won’t be a star, because he will. But Jersey didn’t need a PG . . . they needed a PF. The Lopez – Cousins frontline will be a load to handle. And if they can woo just one good free agent, that team is going to become respectable real fast. Faster than they would become, had they been able to get Wall.
Having said all of that, I still think Evan Turner is the best player in this draft. That dude can do it all. He’s going to be a lethal scorer.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 21st, 2010
5:56 pm
“As for Cousins . . . if Hawk fans wouldn’t trade Smoove ( or Al ) for Cousins, then we’re not serious in balancing out the team. Cousins is a MONSTER, and his measurements at the combines show that if he measures out well athletically, that he could be an instant success in the NBA.”
All this assumes that he actually pans out. There have been several reports of him being a head case in his own right, and he is not as athletically gifted as either of the Hawks’ big men. Is it worth trading one of two established borderline All-Stars, neither one of whom has reached their own potential yet, for a guy who could be the next Kwame Brown or Tractor Traylor as easily as he could be a baby Shaq?
I am all for trading either Smoove or Al for a center of equal talent who is sure to give the Hawks that level of production. I am all for trading one of them for Wall, who appears to be a sure thing. Cousins has a lot of potential, but he is by no means a sure thing.
you bet
May 21st, 2010
6:01 pm
Thank you. Al is a nice person and a florida favorite. But we need a center who can play center not a power forward playing center.
northcyde
May 21st, 2010
6:03 pm
Ramon . . Gilbert has always been about himself, not the team. In Jamison and Butler, he was playing with guys who could easily get you 20 points at any time. And he couldn’t get it done with them.
Yeah, an Arenas – JJ backcourt looks great on paper. But I don’t trust Arenas at all to make good decisions, other than letting him shoot if he’s red hot.
I would love to see what Arenas’ career high in assist is. I know with JJ, it’s 17 . . . in a game where he struggled from the field, but went into playmaker mode and dished out 17 assists. I believe he had 9 pts – 9 rebs – 17 assists. For Arenas, I’d be shocked if he got over 15 in a game.
you bet
May 21st, 2010
6:05 pm
JJ’s not going to resign here. So think again!
Clyde
May 21st, 2010
6:06 pm
I’ve been on this blog for years and the same ole thing happens each summer. People get to talking bout who we should get and what needs to be done to fix the Hawks. Year after year it happens and at the end of the summer the Hawks end up signing nobody and we mess up the draft.
Clyde
May 21st, 2010
6:06 pm
Well Bosh it out
The Flash
May 21st, 2010
6:11 pm
Been rakin much so long it tastes like puddin to me, Big Ray.
Niremetal, when Roy catches he goes quickly or gets rid of it. He is so much more active off the ball–a lost art in the game which creates space for others–and is so much quicker and more creative in the open court and going to the rim than JJ. On the other end, he comes up with more balls, either off the board or floor, in passing lanes.
In short, I think that his presence makes the game play smarter, quicker, sharper. JJ, it appears to me, has the opposite effect, even while he is filling it up. Do not see how you would prefer JJ to Roy, who I think gets what the game can be as opposed to JJ who gets what he can be.
I wrote my boy T about JJ. I don’t recall what he said in response, but it was terse and to the point, as always, and this much I remember, it wasn’t very nice.
If the Hawks can sign a good asset in his place, Dirk would be an amazing get but it ain’t happenin, unless Cubin becomes brain dead, I think that the GM (I forget his name but think he is very good) will pull the trigger. Especially with Crawford, you really can use a scorer who does not occupy ball and who creates space and action possibilities for others. That so ain’t Joe.
Grandad
May 21st, 2010
6:12 pm
I’ve been reading those darn twits
coming out of the combine and supposedly
Cousins is not handling the interview
process very well. He had a bad rep coming in
and he has not done himself any favors.
Showing anger @ questions & the people asking
said questions.
Initial impression – he’s not wrapped too tight.
one quote – “would be an immediate headache and
a locker room disruption. However, somebody will
talk themselves into taking him purely on his
physical gifts alone.”
Grandad
May 21st, 2010
6:17 pm
The Flash, ahem, I’ll take Joe and his healthy knees
over B.Roy & his paper mache knees any day.
Red hot trade rumors
May 21st, 2010
6:25 pm
The Human Highlight Blog: THHB Special Commentary: Trade Al Horford
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=999167&start=15
Kevin Martin, Paul Millsap, Al Horford are strong buy-low …
Rashard Lewis/Monte Ellis/Kurt Thomas for Rudy Gay/Al Horford/Luke …
RealGM • View topic – Al Horford’s Trade Value
drmaryb
May 21st, 2010
6:28 pm
Najeh
I’m with you man. I haven’t watched any college hoops, so I have no idea who these cats are. But, I would never trade a BIRD in the hand for TWO BIRDS in the bush! My Granny taught me that when I was four years old.
Its a GAMBLE! That’s why they call it a LOTTERY! That would be like trading Josh or Al for Marvin because the pundits said he was a #2 pick talent?
Red hot trade rumors
May 21st, 2010
6:32 pm
HOOPSWORLD
What’s Next For The Hawks?
By: Jason Fleming Last Updated: 5/12/10 4:18 PM ET | 2480 times read
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The Atlanta Hawks won 53 games in 2009-10 during the regular season, the most for the franchise since 1996-97 when they won 56. This marked the fifth consecutive season they have improved their regular season record since a franchise-low of 13 wins in 2004-05.
The Hawks earned themselves a three seed in the Eastern Conference playoffs, winning in the first round before falling in the second round to the second-seeded Orlando Magic. Judging by record and seeding, the Hawks season should be considered to have ended just about where it should have, a season that was pretty good but not quite on the elite level of a championship contender.
Of course, it’s not that easy. The team almost lost to the upstart Milwaukee Bucks in the first round (and many argue should have), recovering from a 3-2 series deficit to win Game 6 in Milwaukee before finishing it off at home in seven games. Then, in the second round against the Magic, they mailed in the worst postseason performance in history, being swept by an average of over 25 points a game.
Their head coach, Mike Woodson, is a free agent. So is their leading scorer, Joe Johnson. After a pitiful playoff run where Johnson shot 42% from the field in 11 games and Woodson came under fire from the media after just about every game for questionable rotations, a lack of fire from his players, a lack of creativity on offense, and general malaise.
This is how a franchise seemingly improving seems to be on the threshold of implosion. Do they try and keep Johnson? Woodson? If not, what do they do?
The Hawks need to make a decision. Is this team going to continue to improve and become a true contender? Or have they reached their ceiling as a team that is pretty good? Perhaps they will plateau for a couple seasons and then slowly regress before a rebuild is necessary.
If the team is convinced this team can be a contender they should keep Johnson. They had a four-year, $60 million deal on the table in the fall but Johnson wanted five years, the most any other team with the cap space to sign him as an unrestricted free agent can offer. However, re-signing Johnson means the Hawks will be over the cap, with only the Mid-Level and Bi-Annual Exceptions available to add depth to the team via free agency.
The Orlando Magic made it painfully clear the Hawks need help in the middle. Al Horford has done an admirable job playing center, but he’s not nearly big enough to compete with someone like Dwight Howard (okay, really, neither is anyone else, but some players are better built to hold position than Horford). The problem is Horford, Josh Smith, and Marvin Williams are all big forwards, but none of them can be a true center and none of them are really capable of being legitimate small forwards. This is $23.7 of the team’s salary cap in 2010-11, all ideally suited to the same position (Williams can play both the most effectively, which makes him a better fit as the third forward, first off the bench).
Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=16204#ixzz0obd369q1
Red hot trade rumors
May 21st, 2010
6:34 pm
Horford is on the trading block:
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=16204
Red hot trade rumors
May 21st, 2010
6:37 pm
We could have had Amare!
NBA Trade Deadline: Atlanta Hawks Should Make Play for Amar’e …, 2010 … This trade also allows Al Horford to move to the power forward … Bleacher Report publishes the best Atlanta Hawks newsletter on the …
bleacherreport.com/…/347685-nba-trade-deadline-atlanta-hawks-should-make-play-for-amare
drmaryb
May 21st, 2010
6:39 pm
Red Hot
What the hell are you trying to say? Damn! Looks like a run-on sentence with a series of names? Geez!
Red hot trade rumors
May 21st, 2010
6:40 pm
Al Horford Trade Rumors and Injury Update – SportsOverdose
Up to the minute links to breaking Al Horford rumors, injuries, and news from … Atlanta Journal-Constitution
http://www.shop.imscared.com/nba-players/al-horford
li t
May 21st, 2010
6:44 pm
they need to to sign b haywood and ray allen trade let marvin come off the bench to play against other teams second units draft mikial torrence for albama because he is ready to make an impact in this leauge trade bibby to try clear cap your starting 5 should be mikial torrence, ray allen, j smoove, horford and b haywood you back ups teague crawford marvin j smith and za za
Ramon
May 21st, 2010
6:49 pm
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5208949
Grandad
May 21st, 2010
8:17 pm
drmaryb:
That’s Truth Serum / the ”Mad Hatter” / et al.
gmoney
May 22nd, 2010
7:26 am
The Hawks are a gutless team and JJ is the leader. Resigning him is a major mistake just like all the horrible draft picks. It’s not a good product…a pain in the ass to get to the games…and get some damn good food and drinks at the game.
mookie
May 22nd, 2010
9:48 am
sign and trade with joe and try and get gerald wallace and steven jackson. or sign joe and trade marvin and our first round pick for devin harris or monta ellis,
mookie
May 22nd, 2010
9:50 am
and oh yea, pack up za za and mike bibby for kaman…….
MadHatter
May 24th, 2010
10:55 am
If the Hawks are dumb enough to put Al Horford on the trading block then they are not serious about winning. As of right now, whether anybody believes it or not, Al Horford as improved so much this year that I think right now he is a better offensive player than Dwight Howard and has a better repetoirre of moves in his arsenal than Dwight. Al Horford reminds me of a young Wilt Chamberlain in the way he dominates from around the basket. The Celtics are defensing Dwight Howard perfectly in the series with the Magic and the Cs have shown the world exactly how to defense superman. Basically push and drive howard out of the block into the 7-10 feet away from the basket. Then when Dwight gets the ball he is too far away to stuff it home (which is the only thing he knows how to do) so then Dwight has to make a move and take a shot 7-10 feet away from the basket and he is continually missing badly from that range. Lets say you used the same strategy with Al Horford and you drove him 7-10 feet away, Al has such a good mid range jump shot that he would take his jump shots from that range making over 60% of them. With that in mind, WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO TRADE THE AL HORFORD, A CENTER WHO NEXT YEAR WILL BE THE BEST CENTER IN BASKETBALL. Its foolish and if the Hawks do it they might as well bust up the team and trade Joe Johnson, Jamal Crawford and Josh Smith and move the team to another city. Im totally fed up with the Hawks and their losing philosophies.
Concerned Fan
May 24th, 2010
12:14 pm
If you have to get rid of JOE Johnson, my suggestion is to try to sign and trade for a DANNY GRANGER. The guy is a legit star playing for a subpar team. They are the same size. He can play forward and shooting guard!!!! He is more athletic and can get to the basket whenever he wants. He doesn’t command a maximum contract like a Joe Johnson, he wont destroy your cap position, he is two years younger, and if you put him around the right group of people I believe that the 24ppg he averaged last season would do some major damage for you. Not to mention…… those numbers went down from previous years as he decided to play more team ball….. Now I’m no General Manager…. but i just felt I had to say this. The guy is waiting to blow up. If you can’t get him for Joe Johnson then something is wrong….. And WHO ELSE out there is even close to worth it if we can’t get a max contract player?!?! JUST A THOUGHT………
MadHatter
May 24th, 2010
12:30 pm
Dont laugh now. We saw Mike Woodsen fired. Today, we saw Mike Brown fired. Guess whos going to be fired next? Thats right. Stan Van Gundy will get his pink slip as soon as the Celtics CRUSH the Magic in game 4 and make the Magic disappear for the summer. Stan should be fired because as I said that whole Magic management team are fools. They had a better team last year and all they had to do was build upon it and make it better or even stand pat. Standing pat would have put them back into the finals, instead they thought they would UPGRADE by letting Alsten and Turkelu walk and signing Vince Carter. That was the dumbest thing Ive ever seen a basketball team do and I knew the Magic would be worse as a result of it. Believe me, AS SOON AS THE MAGIC LOSE GAME 4 TO THE C’S AND GET ELIMINATED FOR THE SUMMER, STAN VAN GUNDY WILL BE HISTORY AND HE WILL GET FIRED.
MadHatter
May 25th, 2010
10:42 am
What the Orlando showed last night is that if they give maximum (150%) effort for 48 minutes in a basketball game, they can WIN. Its too bad they didnt show up earlier in the series or it might have had a different outcome. The Celtics will win the series because they will have 3 chances to close it out. In order for Stan Van Gundy’s job to be saved, Dwight Howard would have to play the next 3 games exactly as he did yesterday, which is highly unlikely. Oh well: STAN VAN GUNDY WILL BE THE NEXT COACHING CASUALTY. STAN WILL GET FIRED AS SOON AS BOSTON WINS THE MAGIC/CELTICS EASTERN CONFERENCE FINALS SERIES. Then, as soon as the finals are over and the Lakers have beaten the Celtics, Doc Rivers will also get fired. Actually, the only coach in basketball that you can’t fire is Phil Jackson because he brings 10 championship rings with his resume along with another championship as a player with the Knicks.
LesterHayes
May 25th, 2010
12:55 pm
LaBron James is going to sign with the Chicago Bulls. LaBron will get to play with Chicago’s Derek Rose. As soon as LaBron is signed on with the Bulls, Chris Bosh will also sign with the Bulls. If the Bulls are lucky enough to sign LaBron and Bosh, that would make the Bulls the odds on favorite to win the title next season. The Bulls will finally return to prominance since the Michael Jordan/Scottie Pippen years.l
JuliusCesaer
May 26th, 2010
9:49 am
The Hawks can elevate their program to a big-time status by making a couple of moves. First, trade Joe Johnson straight up to the Dallas Mavericks for Dirk Norwinski. If Mark Cuban doesnt bite on that trade the Hawks can throw in Marvin Williams and Mike Bibby as consolation prizes. Once that deal has been orchestrated and finalized, the Hawks should then acquire Avery Johnson to coach them. These suggested moves will guarantee that the Hawks continue their upward ascension to the top of the Eastern Conference standings. Remember: the Hawks only have 2 teams to pass (Orlando and Cleveland) to be the #1 seed in the East.
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