
If J.J. walks, the Hawks won't be able to replace him with a comparable free agent. (Curtis Compton/ccompton@ajc.com)
Hawks GM Rick Sund said the team will do whatever it takes to re-sign Joe Johnson but he’s not writing the checks. One guy who is, ASG’s Michael Gearon Jr., said the Hawks would “react” once Johnson hits the free-agent market on July 1.
Gearon didn’t want to talk about J.J. this week but on the day after the Hawks’ season ended he offered some insight into his view on max contracts:
“The biggest problem most teams make is they sign a contract and it ends up being a bad contract. You look at the Miami Heat, Jermaine O’Neal makes $23 million a year. Is he a player that is worth $23 million a year? I would say probably not. If you look at our team, we’ve assembled a team where we try to stay away from bad contracts.
“That said, there isn’t a move we haven’t made. We thought it made sense to get Jamal Crawford here and increase the payroll, so we did that. With the salary cap, the only way go above that is trade players you have or you re-sign players you have where the payroll goes up. Since we bought the team the payroll has increased [by] $24 million What we haven’t done is make a mistake with a bad contract. Well, I shouldn’t say that, Speedy’s contract wasn’t very good, but we turned it into something [in the Crawford trade].”
The obvious counter to Gearon’s argument is getting players like O’Neal often requires signing (or trading for) deals that carry some risk on the back end. But clearly that’s not ASG’s philosophy and, as I’ve said before, it’s hard to blame them since there are only a few max-salary players who would excite fans to the point of offering a reasonable chance of a return on investment in this market. Gearon again:
“If somebody came to us tomorrow and said you can have LeBron for max money and it puts you in the luxury tax, I’d do it in a a heartbeat. But am I going to do that for Ilgauskas? Am I going to do it for Jermaine O’Neal? I don’t think so. . . .
“We have piled tens of millions of dollars into this product to make it good. But it’s also up to fans to show up and see your team and support your team. I think we’ve given them a product as exciting as any in the league. You want people to be there, you want them to support your team and be proud of it. I think we have a team that deserves that.”
No one knows for sure what J.J. can get on the market and/or at what point Sund’s “whatever it takes” is trumped by ASG’s fiscal restraint. But chances are if the Hawks are going to sign a major free agent this summer, it’s going to be J.J. Otherwise, due to salary-cap rules they don’t have many options for signing a comparable replacement.
You can either trust me on that, slog through the following detailed explanation (which could possibly make your head hurt and your eyeballs bleed) or skip down the paragraph that starts with “All of those moves technically would leave the Hawks with $8.1 million in cap room”. . . .
I’ve checked all of the following against info posted by cap expert Larry Coon. I also exchanged e-mails with Coon, who after years of providing friendly help for helpless hacks like me now is writing a blog at the New York Times Web site, among other places. I also corresponded with blog reader Robert Dinterman, who says he’s just a fan with a lot of CBA knowledge. I can tell you this is true, so Ps and thanks to Robert.
I’ve included the appropriate links if you are interested in how I came up with the numbers or are some kind of masochist (I don’t judge). I’m pretty confident it’s all accurate but I don’t claim to be a cap expert or any better than competent at simple arithmetic. If you think there are any errors in math or cap interpretation, please send me an email–mcunningham at ajc.com–and I will check it out and update where necessary.
As it stands, the Hawks have roughly $47.6 million committed to eight players next season when including Mo Evans’ $2.5 million. Let’s say Evans opts out and then J.J. and Josh Childress and all their other free agents signs elsewhere and/or the Hawks renounce all their free agents.
If all of that happens, then the following would come off the Hawks’ books for their total offseason salary of approximately $78.9 million, which includes committed salaries and cap holds for their free agents and the No. 24 draft pick (assuming they keep it):
Joe Johnson’s $15.8 million cap hold
As a Bird Free Agent, Johnson’s offseason salary figure is based on 150 % of previous salary, which is about $22.5 million, but the figure can’t exceed the maximum salary for a nine-year player, which hasn’t been determined yet but that Coon estimates will be about $15.8 million.
Josh Childress’ $10.9 million cap hold
Childress is a Bird Free Agent coming off the fourth year of his rookie-scale contract. According to the 2004-05 rookie scale, Childress’ fourth-year salary as the No. 6 pick was 26.8 percent more than his third-year salary of $2.86 million, or $3.6 million. (The higher salary is because Childress made about 120 percent more than the scale, which is allowable.) The $3.6 million is less than the league-defined average salary of $4.9 million in 2004-05. Therefore, Childress’ cap hold is 300 percent more than $3.6 million, or roughly $10.9 million.
Mo Evans’ $2.5 million salary
If Mo opts out, his salary is wiped out.
Mario West’s $1.06 million cap hold
As a three-year veteran who has been previously waived, West is a non-bird, restricted free agent. As such, his team salary is calculated as the greater of 120 percent of his previous salary ($572,344) or his qualifying offer. For West, the qualifying offer is the greater of 125 percent of his previous salary ($596,191) or the three-year vet minimum ($885,120) plus $175,000, which is $1.06 million.
Joe Smith’s $854,389 cap hold
Smith is a 12-year veteran with a minimum 2010-11 salary of $1.352 million, but since he’s played more than seasons any salary in excess of the two-year veteran minimum salary in 2010-11 ($854,389) is reimbursed by the league and not counted as part of team salary.
Jason Collins’ $854,389 cap hold
Collins is a nine-year veteran with a minimum 2010-11 salary of $1.229 million, but since he’s played more than three seasons any salary in excess of the two-year veteran minimum salary in 2010-11 ($854,389) is reimbursed by the league and not counted as part of team salary.
Randolph Morris $854,389 cap hold
Morris is a four-year veteran with a minimum 2010-11 salary of $992,680, but since he’s played more than three seasons any salary in excess of the two-year veteran minimum salary in 2010-11 ($854,389) is reimbursed by the league and not counted as part of the team salary.
Subtracting Evans’ option plus the free-agent holds would leave the Hawks’ salaries at about $46.1 million (committed salaries for seven players at $45.1 million plus the rookie scale amount of $964,000 for the 24th pick).
But other salary charges apply since the Hawks then would be under the salary cap (estimated by the league will be $56.1 million in 2010-11) and have only eight players when counting the players under contract plus the first-round pick. The roster charge for the four empty spots below 12 are based on the 2010-11 rookie minimum salary of $473,604, for a total of $1.89 million. That would increase the Hawks’ salary total to about $48 million ($46.1 million plus $1.9 million).
All of those moves technically would leave the Hawks with roughly $8.1 million in cap room, but they would be subject to holds for the mid-level and bi-annual exceptions. Those holds apply if adding them would put the Hawks over the cap. It’s hard to say if that will happen now because while the amount for the 2010-11 bi-annual exception is known ($2.08 million) the mid-level amount hasn’t yet been set (Coon is estimating it will be $5.73 million this season). Also, all these salary numbers are estimates while the league calculates them down to dollars and cents. No, really.
If the Hawks are subject to cap holds for the mid-level and bi-annual exceptions, they could renounce those exceptions to gain cap room. Either way, they would be looking at adding players by using either the mid-level and bi-annual exceptions or roughly $8 million in cap room plus minimum-salaried players. So even if Evans opts out, Johnson walks, Childress returns to Greece and/or the Hawks renounce those two and all of their other free agents, there’s still not much flexibility for the Hawks.
As for the Hawks using Johnson in a sign-and-trade to get more value in return, the best way for that to happen is trading him to a team that is over the salary cap. Teams with enough cap room can just sign Johnson straight up and, as everyone knows, there are lots of those teams this summer. Already the Heat are reported to have interest in Johnson, who has said he likes them, too.
If Johnson wants a maximum deal under the Bird rules and his new team agrees, he could go back to the Hawks and ask for a sign-and-trade (he can get six years instead of five and up to about $30 million more that way). But the Hawks wouldn’t have much leverage in that situation, especially if Johnson’s new team is offering him the non-bird max and the Hawks don’t want to go that high. In that case if the Hawks say no to a sign-and-trade, then J.J. could just sign with the new team for the non-bird max.
If the Hawks agreed to a sign-and-trade with Johnson’s new team, they could expect to get back something similar to what Seattle acquired in similar circumstances when Rashard Lewis bolted as a free agent for Orlando in 2007: a conditional second-rick pick and a trade exception.
All of this is a long, painful, mind-numbing way of saying Johnson’s value to the Hawks is enhanced not only because he’s their best player, but also because should he leave they won’t have the flexibility to sign a comparable player. The Hawks could try to get better through trades, but then the problem becomes their reluctance to break up their core group (and possibly weaken the roster in other areas) and the difficulty with trading bad contracts for better players. That’s not to mention ASG’s aversion to taking on large, long-term deals and paying the luxury tax (expected to be about $70 million in 2010-11).
So after three straight years in the playoffs and consecutive trips to the East semis, the Hawks would be hard-pressed to be as good or better next season if J.J. leaves. There could potentially be more flexibility the next season, with Jamal off the books and Bibby’s contract more tradeable, but who the heck knows what will happen between now and then.
Now excuse me while I go place bandages over my bleeding eyeballs.
MC
475 comments Add your comment
O'Brien
May 21st, 2010
7:17 am
@ JSS,
Not to mention the undrafted guard Wesley Matthews, who played solid minutes for Utah. Teams like the Jazz and Spurs (Blair in the second round) always seem to find these guys, whereas the Hawks never do.
Looking at your diamonds in the rough article, there has been some good finds in the second round. Marc Gasol included. Has one of our second round picks ever panned out? Maybe Cenk and Gladyr will become solid rotational players in time.
The new Nets owner and Russian Billionaire seems like he is going to be a great owner. I wish he would have bought the Hawks.
And not only did Cuban mention targeting LeBron, but because he spoke about him before free agency, he is risking a potential million dollar fine for tampering. That’s money right there. The ASG, on the other hand? They are still looking for investors.
“We have been ideally looking for an investor to come in and play a role in the Atlanta Thrashers — ideally a local investor who would give us more financial muscle, if you will, in this community,” Levenson said following the Thrashers’ season.
Since our GM seems to like familiarity with his coaches, I wonder how he feels about his former draft pick Johan Petro from his Seattle days. Petro is a 7 footer, but I don’t know anything about his game. He is available for cheap. Anyone seen him play?
niremetal
May 21st, 2010
8:07 am
I LOVE MEN! MMM!
JSS
May 21st, 2010
8:13 am
@ O’Brien
Good morning… There should be some pretty extensive footage on Petro since he played some big minutes (nearly 20) the last 2 games of the Utah/Denver 1st Round… He’s practiced against Nene which bodes well in a way…
This may repost with the links eventually if Mr. Cunningham gets an opportunity to check his filter
Ramon
May 21st, 2010
8:34 am
So it seems that Avery Johnson is the new leading candidate for the job, if they’ve had more than one interview already, and his reps are still negotiating. Although I’m an advocate of Thibodeau, the difference in hiring Avery over Casey, Demopoulos, and Thibodeau is just simply being willing to pay the price for Avery sends a message that the Hawks are willing to pay to compete. And that along should send excitement, and go a long way in negotiating with Joe and any other free agent. By the way remember, Joe doesn’t HAVE to wait til July 1st to sign a contract with the Hawks.
itybity ray
May 21st, 2010
8:39 am
lets get the feminine Avery who couldnt get the maverick over the hump with more talent than the hawks have now to go with the feminine center we have who cant defend the rim and lets through a baby shower!
LET THE REBUILDING BEGIN!
FIRE SUND
itty bitty ray
May 21st, 2010
8:44 am
* THROW A BABY AISE SHOWER
TIME TO REBUILD MUDDER FROCKER
itty bitty ray
May 21st, 2010
8:45 am
WTF KIND OF UPGRADE IS THAT?
GET BOB WEISS BYTCH!
LARRY LEFT NUT LOPEZ
May 21st, 2010
8:47 am
JOE AINT SIGNING WITH YO PUNK AZZEZ
LARRY LEFT NUT LOPEZ
May 21st, 2010
8:48 am
THAT BYTCH AVERY PAINTS HIS EYELASHES
Najeh Davenpoop
May 21st, 2010
8:50 am
“Teams like the Jazz and Spurs (Blair in the second round) always seem to find these guys, whereas the Hawks never do.”
There are two sides to that coin: it also takes a good coach to get the most out of a player’s talent, and both of those teams have excellent coaches. Nothing bears this out more than players like Devin Brown and Speedy Claxton who played major roles for those coaches but were largely non-factors elsewhere.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 21st, 2010
8:59 am
2nd round picks are valuable if you have good coaches and a good GM that can take advantage of them. If your coaches are clueless about developing young players and your GM drafts players like Robert Swift and Saer Sene in the first round, then yeah, your second round picks are likely to be worthless.
LARRY LEFT NUT LOPEZ
May 21st, 2010
9:09 am
SPEEDY CLAXTON IS STILL A SCRUB AND WILL ALWAYS BE. HE IS NO LONGER ABLE TO FREE LOAD OFF A GUARANTEED CONTRACT SO HE HAS TO WORK HARD. ITS UP TO THE PLAYER TO WANT TO WORK HARD. THATS WHAT SEPARATES THE CHAMPS FROM THE CHUMPS.
AND IT STILL DOESNT MATTER HOW HARD YOU WORK IF YOU JUST DONT HAVE THE TALENT LIKE THE HAWK DONT HAVE THE TALENT.
Hoops
May 21st, 2010
9:13 am
I see this happening-
1. Hawks sign Avery Johnson as HC even though I think they are really missing out on not giving T. Thibodeau a opportunity.
2. JJ resigns with the Hawks.
3. Hawks make a trade involving Marvin & Bibby & a draft pick to get Jefferson.
4. Hawks resign Chills.
5. Hawks trade up to get a SF that can contribute. Who that is, I don’t know.
Ramon
May 21st, 2010
9:14 am
Hoops, which Jefferson?
Ramon
May 21st, 2010
9:17 am
Just got a message that Avery is a long shot for the Hawks now because he wants too much control.
LARRY LEFT NUT LOPEZ
May 21st, 2010
9:21 am
I see this happening-
1. Hawks sign Avery Johnson as HC even though I think they are really missing out on not giving T. Thibodeau a opportunity.
2. JJ resigns with the Hawks.
3. Hawks make a trade involving Marvin & Bibby & a draft pick to get Jefferson.
4. Hawks resign Chills.
5. Hawks trade up to get a SF that can contribute. Who that is, I don’t know.
I SEE ANOTHER ALSO RAN SEASON A FEW GAMES OVER 500 AND REBUILDING PROLONGED.
LARRY LEFT NUT LOPEZ
May 21st, 2010
9:22 am
WHY WOULD ANYBODY COVERT AVERY? I THOUGHT THE OBJECT WAS TO UPGRADE. THATS A LATERAL MOVE AT BEST.
LARRY LEFT NUT LOPEZ
May 21st, 2010
9:24 am
OH I SEE. A LOT OF GAY PEOPLE MOVED TO ATLANTA IN THE 90′S AND AVERY WOULD FIT RIGHT IN WITH HIS FEMININITY. WE’LL HAVE A SOFT CENTER AND A SOFT COACH AND THEN A SOFT 82 GAMES AND OUT IN THE SECOND ROUND.
LARRY LEFT NUT LOPEZ
May 21st, 2010
9:30 am
AND BEFORE YOU HIRE AN ASSISTANT COACH AS A PROJECT TO FIND OUT WHETHER HE CAN CUT IT AS A HEAD COACH WHY DONT YOU CONSIDER;
BOB FCCCKING WEISS!
LARRY LEFT NUT LOPEZ
May 21st, 2010
9:39 am
Portland assistant coach Dean Demopoulos i another experiment for a GM thats clueless and has never won a championship. Sund-of-a-bytch should have at the least has an upward plan in mind when he let go woodson.
So the next 4 years will be experiments and misfits before we FIRE SUND, and begin the rebuilding process.
LARRY LEFT NUT LOPEZ
May 21st, 2010
9:40 am
*is another experiment
de investigator
May 21st, 2010
9:41 am
you are right, hawks will get a white coach
HarveyPritchard
May 21st, 2010
9:44 am
Joe Johnson DOES NOT DESERVE MAX MONEY, but because of the players in the league that are being paid disproportionately and being overpaid (like Jermain O’Neal($23Million/season)); its hard to find the right number for Joe without cheating him out of what he deserves. I know this: Joe Johnson is twice as good as Jermaine O’Neal, so if you look at O’Neals salary, then Joe should be worth $46 million per season. If you did that it would throw the entire Hawks salary structure out of whack. I know Joe should make double what Oneal makes because Joe is at least twice as good as Jermaine Oneal.
True Hawks Fan
May 21st, 2010
9:50 am
Michael Cunningham, I would like to see your mock draft. Or at least 1st and 2nd round Hawks picks/analysis.
O'Brien
May 21st, 2010
9:53 am
This might be a conspiracy theory, but I think Sund and the ASG have no intention of hiring Avery, but at least they are interviewing him. I think Casey has been the favorite all along, and I will be surprised if its not Casey. (I can’t put a finger on why, but I’m not impressed by Casey).
Avery seems like a great regular season coach, but I’m not impressed by his playoff record. However, I think hiring Avery would add more credibility (financial and otherwise) to the Hawks. Plus he might be a better recruit for free agents (COY, been to the NBA finals as a coach, won a ring as a player under Popovich, above .700 winning percentage in the regular season, ESPN analyst).
Is he the right coach? I don’t know. But I would still like to see Thibodeau get an interview. He has some head coaching responsibilites with Boston, and he has worked 3 years for Doc Rivers, who speaks very highly of him. Plus Thibodeau’s teams are consistently known for their defense.
Najeh,
Good coaching is key, especially to second round players. I think if Salim was drafted by a team like the Spurs or Jazz, he could have been a poor man’s Eddie House off the bench. Hopefully our GM and our next coach will be able to help our second round picks (I think we have 2 next year) maximize their talent.
Ramon
May 21st, 2010
10:05 am
O’brien I’m for Thibodeau. Only problem is it may take 3-4 weeks to hire him or interview him because more than like LA and Boston are heading towards a 7 game series that will take 2 weeks alone.
de investigator
May 21st, 2010
10:05 am
WHAT COACH EVER SPOKE POORLY OF HIS ASSISTANT COACH?
COACHES CAN ONLY DIAGRAM PLAYS AND THERE ARE NO NEW PLAYS. EVERY KNOWS THE PICK AND ROLL BUT PHOENIX AND UTAH MASTER IT NOT BECAUSE OF THE COACH BUT BECAUSE OF PLAYERS EXECUTING THE PLAY AND WORKING HARD PLUS HAVING THE TALENT.
IN THE WORDS OF MUHAMMAD ALI:
“CHAMPIONS ARE MADE FROM SOMETHING INSIDE.YOU MUST HAVE THE TALENT AND THE WILL, BUT THE WILL HAS TO BE GREATER THAN THE TALENT”
HAWKS HAVE LIMITED TALENT( THIRD STRING ALL NBA PLAYER SOON TO BE FORMER HAWK) AND NO WILL.
Ramon
May 21st, 2010
10:07 am
Also O’Brien if the Hawks wait to try and add Thibodeau and ends up in a bidding war for him with another team (Chicago? New Jersey?), we know the Hawks will not win that war. So who will they have to turn to then?
de investigator
May 21st, 2010
10:07 am
EVERY ONE KNOWS THE PICK AND ROLL
de investigator
May 21st, 2010
10:10 am
Thibodeau is a project assistant coach who may be a good fit for a team that has highschool college or very young players like chicago or NJ but he would get no respect from seasoned veteran like the hawks who wont have JJ next year and whose talent level is already suspect.
TIME TO REBUILD
de investigator
May 21st, 2010
10:14 am
THIBODEAU IS AN ASSISTANT COACH WHO WOULD BE AN PROJECT AN WOULD GET VERY LITTLE RESPECT FROM SEASONED VETERANS. HED WORK BETTER WITH HIGH SCHOOLERS WHOD BE IMPRESSED THAT HE MADE THE PROS.
BOB
May 21st, 2010
10:15 am
Look, its either me or Lon kruger! take your pick!
BOB Wiess
May 21st, 2010
10:16 am
Bob Weiss, I havent forgotten my play book
BOB Wiess
May 21st, 2010
10:16 am
is that lon or freddy kruger?
BOB Wiess
May 21st, 2010
10:19 am
I WANT MY JOB BACK!!!! WHY ISNT MY NAME BEING FLOATED AROUND? IM BETTER THAN THYROID OR THIBODEAU OR WHAT EVER THE HEIL HIS NAME IS.
BOB Weiss
May 21st, 2010
10:20 am
Bob, Bob Weiss, thats the ticket
GumbyWilliams
May 21st, 2010
10:24 am
I know this article is about Joe Johnson but I am disturbed about what the Hawks have always gotten, will be getting, and will continue to get from MARVIN WILLIAMS. The Hawks are getting absolutely NOTHING from that guy. In fact, I’ll go on record right now and say this, a skeleton in a science lab or a store manequin will deliver more than Marvin Williams on the basketball court. For Marvin Williams to draw nba salaries and paychecks; that in my mind is highway robbery.
da investigator
May 21st, 2010
10:24 am
why dont we get a high school coach? Better yet snatch one out of park and rec. WTF we gonna rebuild any way,
Bob Weiss
May 21st, 2010
10:26 am
fccck you and marvin william I dont need no talent Im a franchise coach, builld around me mudder frocker.
POKEY
May 21st, 2010
10:31 am
Has any body seen my Charlie Pride Greatest hit collection?
LARRY LEFT NUT LOPEZ
May 21st, 2010
10:34 am
MIKE CON & HAM IS BOB WEISS BEING CONSIDER?
JOE JOHNSON
May 21st, 2010
10:37 am
GUYS ITS BEEN REAL, AND ITS BEEN NICE, BUT IT AINT BEEN REAL NICE! GOOD LUCK WITH THE REBUILDING PROJECT AND YES, BOB WEISS GETS MY VOTE TOO.
Grandad
May 21st, 2010
10:43 am
How does the ” Mad Hatter ” get his dung through
the filter & yet other serious bloggers complain
about the ” blog monster ” all the time.
Myself included.
ryan
May 21st, 2010
10:47 am
I don’t get a team like Dallas is over the cap but yet they spend money and make trades they will keep Dirk and still get Chris Bosh who is from there. I just do not now why the Hawks will spend money Spirit said when they took they were going to put a champion on the court. Well that was the a big scam.
Ramon
May 21st, 2010
10:48 am
Grandad its because its Michael Gearon, and he’s bored in his board meeting. lol.
Blog Monster
May 21st, 2010
10:48 am
I dont think the Mad Hatter realizes that guys like me and you control the thoughts on this site. There is no freedom of speech it more like think as I do or else.
FIRE SUND
Ramon
May 21st, 2010
10:54 am
Hey, I have a question. How is it that Larry Bird isn’t feeling any kind of heat on his job? Its been about 5-6 seasons since the Pacers were really a factor in anything. They’re an annual lottery team, and yet no one is saying anything about his job security.
da investigator
May 21st, 2010
10:55 am
I have to agree with both ramon( Michael Gearon is the Mad Hatter) and with ryan, the hawks wont spend the money to build a championship team. Its all about talented players making the coach look good.
No Pokey, I havent seen your Charlie Pride Greatest Hits. Why dont we ask Grandad, it is music from his day.
Grandad do you have pokey’s Charlie Pride Greatest Hits?
da investigator
May 21st, 2010
10:56 am
Larry Bird is White and hes like a God.
cp
May 21st, 2010
11:05 am
I just read this morning the Hawks will interview Mark Jackson…. The rumor about Avery is that he wants to be not only the coach of the Hornets but also the VP of basketball operations. I don’t know if he has told every team he wants to be VP but they say he wants too much power.