Atlanta Hawks: Why J.J. may be worth more to the Hawks than you think
If J.J. walks, the Hawks won't be able to replace him with a comparable free agent. (Curtis Compton/ccompton@ajc.com)
Hawks GM Rick Sund said the team will do whatever it takes to re-sign Joe Johnson but he’s not writing the checks. One guy who is, ASG’s Michael Gearon Jr., said the Hawks would “react” once Johnson hits the free-agent market on July 1.
Gearon didn’t want to talk about J.J. this week but on the day after the Hawks’ season ended he offered some insight into his view on max contracts:
“The biggest problem most teams make is they sign a contract and it ends up being a bad contract. You look at the Miami Heat, Jermaine O’Neal makes $23 million a year. Is he a player that is worth $23 million a year? I would say probably not. If you look at our team, we’ve assembled a team where we try to stay away from bad contracts.
“That said, there isn’t a move we haven’t made. We thought it made sense to get Jamal Crawford here and increase the payroll, so we did that. With the salary cap, the only way go above that is trade players you have or you re-sign players you have where the payroll goes up. Since we bought the team the payroll has increased [by] $24 million What we haven’t done is make a mistake with a bad contract. Well, I shouldn’t say that, Speedy’s contract wasn’t very good, but we turned it into something [in the Crawford trade].”
The obvious counter to Gearon’s argument is getting players like O’Neal often requires signing (or trading for) deals that carry some risk on the back end. But clearly that’s not ASG’s philosophy and, as I’ve said before, it’s hard to blame them since there are only a few max-salary players who would excite fans to the point of offering a reasonable chance of a return on investment in this market. Gearon again:
“If somebody came to us tomorrow and said you can have LeBron for max money and it puts you in the luxury tax, I’d do it in a a heartbeat. But am I going to do that for Ilgauskas? Am I going to do it for Jermaine O’Neal? I don’t think so. . . .
“We have piled tens of millions of dollars into this product to make it good. But it’s also up to fans to show up and see your team and support your team. I think we’ve given them a product as exciting as any in the league. You want people to be there, you want them to support your team and be proud of it. I think we have a team that deserves that.”
No one knows for sure what J.J. can get on the market and/or at what point Sund’s “whatever it takes” is trumped by ASG’s fiscal restraint. But chances are if the Hawks are going to sign a major free agent this summer, it’s going to be J.J. Otherwise, due to salary-cap rules they don’t have many options for signing a comparable replacement.
You can either trust me on that, slog through the following detailed explanation (which could possibly make your head hurt and your eyeballs bleed) or skip down the paragraph that starts with “All of those moves technically would leave the Hawks with $8.1 million in cap room”. . . .
I’ve checked all of the following against info posted by cap expert Larry Coon. I also exchanged e-mails with Coon, who after years of providing friendly help for helpless hacks like me now is writing a blog at the New York Times Web site, among other places. I also corresponded with blog reader Robert Dinterman, who says he’s just a fan with a lot of CBA knowledge. I can tell you this is true, so Ps and thanks to Robert.
I’ve included the appropriate links if you are interested in how I came up with the numbers or are some kind of masochist (I don’t judge). I’m pretty confident it’s all accurate but I don’t claim to be a cap expert or any better than competent at simple arithmetic. If you think there are any errors in math or cap interpretation, please send me an email–mcunningham at ajc.com–and I will check it out and update where necessary.
As it stands, the Hawks have roughly $47.6 million committed to eight players next season when including Mo Evans’ $2.5 million. Let’s say Evans opts out and then J.J. and Josh Childress and all their other free agents signs elsewhere and/or the Hawks renounce all their free agents.
If all of that happens, then the following would come off the Hawks’ books for their total offseason salary of approximately $78.9 million, which includes committed salaries and cap holds for their free agents and the No. 24 draft pick (assuming they keep it):
Joe Johnson’s $15.8 million cap hold
As a Bird Free Agent, Johnson’s offseason salary figure is based on 150 % of previous salary, which is about $22.5 million, but the figure can’t exceed the maximum salary for a nine-year player, which hasn’t been determined yet but that Coon estimates will be about $15.8 million.
Josh Childress’ $10.9 million cap hold
Childress is a Bird Free Agent coming off the fourth year of his rookie-scale contract. According to the 2004-05 rookie scale, Childress’ fourth-year salary as the No. 6 pick was 26.8 percent more than his third-year salary of $2.86 million, or $3.6 million. (The higher salary is because Childress made about 120 percent more than the scale, which is allowable.) The $3.6 million is less than the league-defined average salary of $4.9 million in 2004-05. Therefore, Childress’ cap hold is 300 percent more than $3.6 million, or roughly $10.9 million.
Mo Evans’ $2.5 million salary
If Mo opts out, his salary is wiped out.
Mario West’s $1.06 million cap hold
As a three-year veteran who has been previously waived, West is a non-bird, restricted free agent. As such, his team salary is calculated as the greater of 120 percent of his previous salary ($572,344) or his qualifying offer. For West, the qualifying offer is the greater of 125 percent of his previous salary ($596,191) or the three-year vet minimum ($885,120) plus $175,000, which is $1.06 million.
Joe Smith’s $854,389 cap hold
Smith is a 12-year veteran with a minimum 2010-11 salary of $1.352 million, but since he’s played more than seasons any salary in excess of the two-year veteran minimum salary in 2010-11 ($854,389) is reimbursed by the league and not counted as part of team salary.
Jason Collins’ $854,389 cap hold
Collins is a nine-year veteran with a minimum 2010-11 salary of $1.229 million, but since he’s played more than three seasons any salary in excess of the two-year veteran minimum salary in 2010-11 ($854,389) is reimbursed by the league and not counted as part of team salary.
Randolph Morris $854,389 cap hold
Morris is a four-year veteran with a minimum 2010-11 salary of $992,680, but since he’s played more than three seasons any salary in excess of the two-year veteran minimum salary in 2010-11 ($854,389) is reimbursed by the league and not counted as part of the team salary.
Subtracting Evans’ option plus the free-agent holds would leave the Hawks’ salaries at about $46.1 million (committed salaries for seven players at $45.1 million plus the rookie scale amount of $964,000 for the 24th pick).
But other salary charges apply since the Hawks then would be under the salary cap (estimated by the league will be $56.1 million in 2010-11) and have only eight players when counting the players under contract plus the first-round pick. The roster charge for the four empty spots below 12 are based on the 2010-11 rookie minimum salary of $473,604, for a total of $1.89 million. That would increase the Hawks’ salary total to about $48 million ($46.1 million plus $1.9 million).
All of those moves technically would leave the Hawks with roughly $8.1 million in cap room, but they would be subject to holds for the mid-level and bi-annual exceptions. Those holds apply if adding them would put the Hawks over the cap. It’s hard to say if that will happen now because while the amount for the 2010-11 bi-annual exception is known ($2.08 million) the mid-level amount hasn’t yet been set (Coon is estimating it will be $5.73 million this season). Also, all these salary numbers are estimates while the league calculates them down to dollars and cents. No, really.
If the Hawks are subject to cap holds for the mid-level and bi-annual exceptions, they could renounce those exceptions to gain cap room. Either way, they would be looking at adding players by using either the mid-level and bi-annual exceptions or roughly $8 million in cap room plus minimum-salaried players. So even if Evans opts out, Johnson walks, Childress returns to Greece and/or the Hawks renounce those two and all of their other free agents, there’s still not much flexibility for the Hawks.
As for the Hawks using Johnson in a sign-and-trade to get more value in return, the best way for that to happen is trading him to a team that is over the salary cap. Teams with enough cap room can just sign Johnson straight up and, as everyone knows, there are lots of those teams this summer. Already the Heat are reported to have interest in Johnson, who has said he likes them, too.
If Johnson wants a maximum deal under the Bird rules and his new team agrees, he could go back to the Hawks and ask for a sign-and-trade (he can get six years instead of five and up to about $30 million more that way). But the Hawks wouldn’t have much leverage in that situation, especially if Johnson’s new team is offering him the non-bird max and the Hawks don’t want to go that high. In that case if the Hawks say no to a sign-and-trade, then J.J. could just sign with the new team for the non-bird max.
If the Hawks agreed to a sign-and-trade with Johnson’s new team, they could expect to get back something similar to what Seattle acquired in similar circumstances when Rashard Lewis bolted as a free agent for Orlando in 2007: a conditional second-rick pick and a trade exception.
All of this is a long, painful, mind-numbing way of saying Johnson’s value to the Hawks is enhanced not only because he’s their best player, but also because should he leave they won’t have the flexibility to sign a comparable player. The Hawks could try to get better through trades, but then the problem becomes their reluctance to break up their core group (and possibly weaken the roster in other areas) and the difficulty with trading bad contracts for better players. That’s not to mention ASG’s aversion to taking on large, long-term deals and paying the luxury tax (expected to be about $70 million in 2010-11).
So after three straight years in the playoffs and consecutive trips to the East semis, the Hawks would be hard-pressed to be as good or better next season if J.J. leaves. There could potentially be more flexibility the next season, with Jamal off the books and Bibby’s contract more tradeable, but who the heck knows what will happen between now and then.
Now excuse me while I go place bandages over my bleeding eyeballs.
MC
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475 comments Add your comment
David
May 20th, 2010
2:09 pm
If the Hawks resign Joe Johnson does this make us any better???We would still be a team getting put out in the 2nd round because we dont have the talent to go against Cleveland, Boston or Orlando… I am a Hawks fan but to be honest the only players I really like on our team is Horford and Crawford…. If you look at the teams that compete for it all, they have at least 3 starters that can put up 20 plus points and a decent bench(Boston,L.A.,Orlando)If we resign Joe, we need to bring in someone else that can put up points…. The last 2 years we have made the playoffs, when we played against a talented team they embarrassed us…Atlanta needs a MAJOR MAKE OVER!!!!!!!!!
O'Brien
May 20th, 2010
2:15 pm
Ken,
All the more reason why thibodeau should be given an interview in my opinion. And one of my first questions for him would be who would be his offensive coordinator?
The problem for the hawks is that 2 of their best 4 players play the Same position. And except for the closing minutes of a game or closing minutes of a quarter, they should not be on the court at the same time.
JJ should play about 36 MPG, and Crawford should play about 30 MPG. Consequently, if I’m the hawks, I’m looking into trades for Crawford that would improve the bench so that we are not completely reliant on the one bench player.
northcyde
May 20th, 2010
2:28 pm
David
May 20th, 2010
2:09 pm
If the Hawks resign Joe Johnson does this make us any better???We would still be a team getting put out in the 2nd round because we dont have the talent to go against Cleveland, Boston or Orlando… I am a Hawks fan but to be honest the only players I really like on our team is Horford and Crawford…. If you look at the teams that compete for it all, they have at least 3 starters that can put up 20 plus points and a decent bench(Boston,L.A.,Orlando)If we resign Joe, we need to bring in someone else that can put up points…. The last 2 years we have made the playoffs, when we played against a talented team they embarrassed us…Atlanta needs a MAJOR MAKE OVER!!!!!!!!!
************************
Atlanta needs a point guard . . the same thing we’ve needed since Mookie left. You add a legit PG to this team who can run the show, and we become a better team.
We may be frustrated that we can’t get past the 2nd round, but some fans will flat out abandon this team if we lose JJ, and we go into another rebuilding project. I think the ownership understands this. They understand that if we’re at least good, that we can retain most of the base . . even if we’re bytching and crying.
But if this team takes a step backwards, the fan base will dwindle. That “makeover” you talk about, has to be for the right player(s), and it can’t have us take a “step back”. If not, it’s back to wishing for ping pong balls.
Marcus
May 20th, 2010
2:45 pm
I wonder if one of the interview questions posed to the coaching candidates include:
“Tell me your schemes/ philosophy (Off/Def) with or without JJ?”
We can’t set dude up for life without JJ or life with JJ because it is a 50/50 proposition…Answers to that question will influence (I think) draft direction and other things like more direct offensive involvement of Horford, Smoove and Marvin, as well as defensive matchups to address current issues with guarding quicker PG and SG, help defense, etc.
David
May 20th, 2010
2:46 pm
@Northcyde
I agree completely but if you think about it we could have already had that point guard that we need take your pick Chris Paul or Derron Williams…It wouldn’t hurt to add a center into the mix the Hawks need to get bigger I would love to see Chris Bosh come to Atlanta I don’t know if that could happen but it doesn’t hurt to wish lol….
Marcus
May 20th, 2010
2:49 pm
posted last week .. not sure if it is even possible wiht our cap situation …. but Ramon Sessions is wasting away on the bench in MIN after signing an offer with them late last summer. With Johnny Flynn (and possibly Ricky Rubio) on the roster, he looks destined to be back-up PG in the near future. Like Grandad (or someone) said, he was a hot name on the wish list in ‘09 before we resigned Bibby.
ryan
May 20th, 2010
2:51 pm
I don’ care what people say we live in the past about Chris Paul or Derron Williams we should have drafted one those guys and we be not having this question about the PG problem we have to many PF& F and we do not have a post player and that is why we can not beat the Orlando and Cleveland.
terrell
May 20th, 2010
2:57 pm
If the Sixers take Evan Turner, wat will they do with Lou Williams? Send him home possibly? Can he play pg? I think they really like Jrue Holiday.
O'Brien
May 20th, 2010
3:02 pm
Terrell,
The question is what will they do with Iguadala and his contract (Turner is more of a SG/SF).
terrell
May 20th, 2010
3:02 pm
Ryan, if we had CP3 or Deron, we would’nt be having a discussion about JJ either. No way the ASG would pony up enough $ for Paul and JJ. Are you kidding me? Cant have it both ways.
Joe Johnson
May 20th, 2010
3:04 pm
I’m not staying with the Atlanta Hawks I’m tired of the fans and the city I want to be in a bigger market. New York Knicks is my first choice since it’s a big market but If I can play alongside Dwayne Wade I would prefer that over the Knicks. Sorry Hawks fans but I’m outta here so stop trying to persuade me to stay I help make the franchise relevant again and all yall can do is act like that don’t matter and boo me when I needed support. Peace.
- Joe Johnson
terrell
May 20th, 2010
3:04 pm
Turner’s a sg. He wont take Iggy’s spot. Holiday, Turner, Iggy, Brand, Dalemert. Where does Lou fit in?
cp
May 20th, 2010
3:06 pm
I don’t know who it was but yesterday somebody posted some links about Paul George. I didn’t pay them any attention but today they were talking about him on ESPN news. The combine is this week and although its early they say he stood out. So I went and read up on him and checked some clips. I doubt the kid is there when we pick but if he is I say we take him. He is a good defender, passer, has range, and is very athletic. He challenges a lot of shots although he is a small forward. And the one thing he did that I wish our sf could do is finish in traffic. I didn’t see him tripping over guys or getting knocked down by pgs. Dude had no problem getting to the rim and finishing. I just don’t see him being there at 24 but if he is grab him.
Grandad
May 20th, 2010
3:08 pm
*northcyde* /*[on draft nite]*/ ”It’s not like he played for Utah”
“Everybody else, we had to trade for ( including Dominique, whom we obtained from Utah )”
Just say no to Lou
May 20th, 2010
3:09 pm
Let’s not even get into this. Ugh
Grandad
May 20th, 2010
3:12 pm
David:
“If the Hawks resign Joe Johnson does this make us any better?”
YES:
End of story !
ryan
May 20th, 2010
3:15 pm
If we can not get a big name instead i do like the idea of Rudy Gay.
Grandad
May 20th, 2010
3:24 pm
O’Brien:
Why do you assume, because T.T. is a ”Def. Guy”
that he has no concept of offense.
“And one of my first questions for him would be who would be his offensive coordinator?”
You’re assuming everyone is like Woodson.
The dif.
He [wdsn] didn’t know squat about squat.
Basketball coaches are basketball coaches,
unlike;
football coaches, who are specialists.
“Doc’s coaching style might be the best ‘prep school’ for grooming assistants to be head coaches. All of the game-planning is completely delegated. So, for example, all of the coaches (Doc included) get an even number of teams they have to scout, watch game film, and ultimately game-plan for. Thibodeau is responsible for offensive and defensive adjustments both in preparation and during the game. Obviously, Doc puts in the final tweaks into any scheme, but how great is a system like this for developing well-rounded assistant coaches?”
I’ve used this ………^……… before on my posts.
I’m a Thibodeau guy. More sold every day.
O'Brien
May 20th, 2010
3:34 pm
Grandad,
Thibodeau is high on my list too. Plus working with doc he got to see Rondo develop, and he saw the intensity KG brings as the leader of that team.
I’m not assuming he wont be good on offense, but if I’m the GM, he must convince me that he has an offensive game plan (with or without JJ).
One bad thing about the NBA is the draft is before free agency. How are we supposed to know if we should draft a SG or not?
mp
May 20th, 2010
3:38 pm
Trade Joe to Indiana for Brandon Rush and a big and call it a day.
Dejay
May 20th, 2010
3:41 pm
I’m not saying it’s a perfect scenario, North. I’m saying that it is what it is here. I just don’t have a problem with expecting more and if you ask any baseball fan here who threw their hands up after watching the Astros and Cubs send the Braves packing in October when they use to make the playoffs, you’ll know that I’m not alone in this sentiment.
Gearon has lived here all this time and should know better than to expect fans to magically appear based on the past two seasons, especially after they failed to compete in the second round both times. Nique and the gang didn’t give up when they faced the Celtics; even Smitty and Deke’s teams put up a fight against Jordan’s Bulls. After getting their pants pulled down by the Cavs last year and the Magic this spring, how can they expect folks to come back with their wallets out? Because we’re better than we were back in 2005? Please.
Bottom line is that folks here are tired of watching expansion teams (see Orlando and Miami) play for the world title while ours schedule tee times and vacations cruises while yapping about what might have been. While the ‘big boys’ are playing for the belt, we’re relegated to talking about draft picks and who might leave town if XYZ offers them a contract. That script gets old after a while.
MannyT
May 20th, 2010
3:41 pm
@the Joe Johnson naysayers
Look at it this way…the teams that stay on top add to their talent. If Joe leaves, best case scenario is trying to find a replacement that works, but is not as good.
At some point, if you really want to compete at the top level, you have to add to the talent. Of the 4 teams that are left, the Suns are probably the least loaded. However, they found a way to get well more than expected from several of their guys (Hill, Dudley, Frye, Lopez, Admunson), For the guys on 1 yr deals, they either get paid in Phoenix or leave. Then the Suns will be scrambling to get back to the same level.
Boston regained elite status when they scammed in Ray Allen & Kevin Garnett at the same time.
The Lakers had to get Shaq in his prime and Kobe in a youthful deal that worked to get back to the highest level. Then they got the magic beans deal for Gasol after Shaq was gone.
Orlando had to not only get the #1 pick in a good year & pick right, but also add around Howard. Maxing out Lewis and bringing in several pieces. (Imagine if they had Oden instead of Howard. Still a #1 pick big man, but with very different results.)
In the NBA, you gotta build and grow, not reassemble the legos with fewer, but newer pieces.
Ramon
May 20th, 2010
3:44 pm
All the talk about trading Joe, will people please understand the Hawks do not have the rights to trade Joe Johnson. And all of the teams that Joe is truly considering, have enough cap space to sign him flat out without a sign and trade.
And for everyone who’s saying sign Rudy Gay or this person who will make over $10 Mil. Please READ THE ARTICLE! The only person the Hawks can sign for more than 10 mil a season is JOE JOHNSON (aside from Childress and who would give him 10 mil?)! Some of you guys need to put down the PS3 controller and stop playing NBA 2K10 long enough to realize how trades and free agency really works in the real world!
Joe Johnson
May 20th, 2010
3:48 pm
@Ramon
Yep you’re right on point man.
ryan
May 20th, 2010
3:51 pm
Well Ramon if the Hawks can not sign nobody other than Joe Johnson he looks to be leaving than screw the Atlanta Hawks i done with them and the Spirit Group.
MannyT
May 20th, 2010
3:52 pm
as an unrestricted free agent looking for (probably) his last big contract, I doubt Joe agrees to any trade that takes him to a less than top 10 team. I think the chances of me winning the lottery are similar to the chances he goes to Indy or any other team that doesn’t quickly get into title consideration next season.
The Hawks are probably the worst team that he will consider. For all the Chicago & NY comments, remember, they are talking about bringing in 2 major contracts this summer. Joe & (Bosh or Wade or LBJ etc) added to a decent team is a better team than the current Hawks…especially w/o Joe.
OK
May 20th, 2010
3:52 pm
Why would you try to deal for Rudy Gay whan you could get Paul George, Devin Ebanks, Gordon Heyward ,Quincy Pondexter, or Darrington Hobson in the draft?
There are some very skilled SG/SF in this draft.
Uh oh, here we go again. The Nightmares
May 20th, 2010
3:58 pm
Jeff Teague has some serious work to do this summer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqZXE-bRx0I&playnext_from=TL&videos=tqRt5V9RDqc&feature=rec-LGOUT-exp_fresh%2Bdiv-1r-2-HM
ryan
May 20th, 2010
4:06 pm
Hawks will be lotery team mark my words.
cp
May 20th, 2010
4:09 pm
Im on the Paul George bandwagon. Im going to go check out some clips of Ebanks and Hobson
doc
May 20th, 2010
4:19 pm
northcyde are you sure you said this right?
Sports fans in Atlanta haven’t won nearly enough to have the sort of apathy that they have toward their sports teams.
didnt you mean lose enough? if so, we have gone from being loserville to miseryville so i guess we fans have earned our right to say to owners prove it before we ante up and add to your millions. that sentence doesnt make sense by the history i know of as a native atlantan. if we had won there wouldnt be apathy.
also portland just about lost the team because the fans/voter base rejected several attempts to raise money for a new building saying the old one wasnt good enough. their wealthy owner in the same vein as blank and a singular one at that rather than a multi headed monster that we have and a smart GM have raised them from the ashes. ypu dont think that makes a difference in fan support now that yu are comparing portland to atlanta
since you try to compare them, not sure how you can compare the only game in town to one of many, either. apples and oranges. i dont think owners get a pass on delivering an inferior product either so i guess i dont think they are entitled to fans. not sure where that dea comes from and why you would come close to saying it. how many owners have ever lost bucks on one of these franchises? do you really think it is about fan attendance or about other revenues that drive these guys on? is that a consideration? do they considers fans as extra revenue and they make money if they can increase that one and hold their own costs down at the same time? again what product have we got? an exciting team that lays down? come on northcyde, they should have been apologizing not asking for entitled hand outs fronm fans after two seasons of better than .500 ball.
let us see what type of fan base enthusiasm they can generate this summer. i can be convinced to buy again if they dont fall on their faces. ill play poker with them and suggest others do it as well. let them show their hand first.
WWSD
Marking Your Words
May 20th, 2010
4:21 pm
Hey ryan do we just mark the one that’s misspelled?
doc
May 20th, 2010
4:25 pm
i doubt joe’s agent is going to let him walk away from extra gamillions if he gets a cut of it. i say joe stays and hopes he does and we both do well under a new coach. if he doesnt work out then he can be traded later to a team desiring the last fit like ray allen was to boston. worked out good for OKC.
Sautee
May 20th, 2010
4:27 pm
doc,
Yeah and from listening to northcyde and Gearon, you’d NEVER guess that we are in a deep recession. I guess we can tell who has enough money to not be affected, eh?
If anyone thinks that the recession didn’t affect attendance this year, I’ve got a great deal on this bridge in Manhattan.
The economy is the BIGGEST factor in the “lack of fan support”. To ignore that is barking up the wrong tree.
James
May 20th, 2010
4:31 pm
Hawks fans have you ever just got tired of being a Hawks fan? I’m leaning toward being tired of being a fan of the Hawks. We need a owner like Mark Cuban someone that isn’t scared to spend money in order to make the team better. We need Joe Johnson but we also need another superstar to go along with him the hawks owners need to spend some money to get the right pieces so the team can be better.
doc
May 20th, 2010
4:36 pm
wow look at what the braves did threw up a touchdown extra point in the ninth to win at home. got to love that! fun for fans to see the glimpses of success.
i_am_soulstar
May 20th, 2010
4:41 pm
It’s a shame that my future happiness depends on Rick Sund and ASG.
truthspitter
May 20th, 2010
4:43 pm
Fans: Are pure stupid if they believe the lies that the management continue to make. I will not support this team if they don’t add another big time piece. I’m fine with bring Joe back but you can make all the excuses you want this team can get Rudy Gay and stay under the cap, if they tell you otherwise, they are incompetent liars.
@northcyde: since you find the need to respond directly to others get facts correct, our 1st rd draft pick will make about $1.1 million and 2nd rick picks are not on a scale, so you can pay them as you wish which makes them even more valuable to whoever claim that 2nd rd picks are worthless. Now lets say we trade the 1st rd pick for a future 1st rd picks or cash then we go from $45.1 to $44 mill and we then have $12 mill to play with. Joe Johnson is not a restricted FA so we don’t have his rights as if he was a restricted FA, but with Chillz’s that is the case, so just let him walk and go after Gay since Chillz has not gotten any better.
niremetal
May 20th, 2010
4:44 pm
Sautee,
I agree to an extent – as you’ll probably agree, I think the truth lies somewhere in between. The recession helps explain why attendance is down league-wide, including in Atlanta. That is, it explains the drop in attendance between last year and this year for the Hawks. But it doesn’t explain why the Hawks’ attendance is still 18th in the NBA – ie why we draw fewer fans than worse teams from other cities.
PaulTolliver
May 20th, 2010
4:44 pm
I think the Hawks should attempt to bust up the team and make a few moves before the free agency deadline. First, trade Josh Smith to the Hornets for James Posey. Second, trade Joe Johnson to the Utah Jazz for Carlos Boozer and Deron Williams. Cut Marvin Williams and let him go for nothing:he’s worthless; and next, acquire Tracy McGrady and sign him to a 10-day contract to see what he has left in the tank. If T-Mac impresses, give him a longer contract and give him a starting job. Those moves should make the Hawks much better, making them a 60-win/title contender.
truthspitter
May 20th, 2010
4:50 pm
Why would you try to deal for Rudy Gay whan you could get Paul George, Devin Ebanks, Gordon Heyward ,Quincy Pondexter, or Darrington Hobson in the draft?
There are some very skilled SG/SF in this draft.
@OK: personally I’m waiting for measurements to come out, but Ebanks is a joke and cant shoot, George was not even dominant in that weak conference, Heyward is being blown out of proportion, they guy has been totally inconsistent, he shot less than 30% from 3PT range this year after looking good last year, we already have Marvin we don’t need that type of inconsistent player, Pondexter did not show his true game until his senior year, which is mighty convenient, once again inconsistent and he is only gonna measure out at about 6-6 with shoes which is 2 guard size, we don’t need another 2 guard if we bring back JJ, Hobson, I never saw one thing out of him that was impressive
cp
May 20th, 2010
4:52 pm
Josh Smith for James Posey? Sigh. I really hate this blog around this time of the year. Really Josh Smith for James Posey? Man Ive seen some terrible trade ideas on here this might be top 3 of worst all time.
Sautee
May 20th, 2010
5:12 pm
nire,
Good point, but northcyde has yet to explain how we are 18th in attendance, but 22nd in spending and yet the fans are at fault for the lack of support (not leading to greater spending). Those figures would lead one to believe that the fans are doing THEIR job, but the owners are trailing behind. Or rather, that the owners are even more lame with THEIR support than the fans, if you like.
Ramon
May 20th, 2010
5:13 pm
Lol @ cp. Its suggestion like Josh for Posey that probably leaves the ownership not taking any of us seriously lol.
cp
May 20th, 2010
5:24 pm
Looks like the blog master ate my post but allowed that wild trade proposal one.. Let me try this again. Ramon you’re right.. When I saw the trade suggestion I didn’t know if i should have laughed or shake my head so I did both. Easily one of the silliest trade proposals Ive ever seen on here and thats saying a lot with these characters.
doc
May 20th, 2010
5:31 pm
for a week i have asked why we as fans are stuck with owners only spending at the 22nd highest rate. isnt this a big league city with big league owners?
i would be embarrassed if this city had owners spending well in luxury tax range with a good team and trailing in attendance. the only time it has happened in the history of major league sports in this town, now of at least 40 years duration was when the braves spent and had a product. seems 4 million fans showed up until money went down along with expectations in the off season. i am not embarrassed to be a discerning sports fan with my money. just not. based on the history of sports in this town no one else should be either.
i am embarrassed for anyone including gearon who wont say why they wont spend big league top five money and continue to rag on the fan when they dont spend. aim it at gearon and his entitled merry cast of characters. this isnt civil service they are providing but a business they will profit from in spite of what their accountants say.
hawksfan23
May 20th, 2010
5:32 pm
i dont really understand how the cap works but if we dont sign the rights to collins and morriss and trade childress for something instead of paying for him to stay in europe, get our second round pick from last year sergy gladyr (european 3 point champ 46 percent) keep joe smith, get back garret siler 7 ft center that we signed last year just to let go he 10 – 15 points in the d league, if mo evans and his 3.5 million leave, want we have enough to sign someone with the 10 to 12 million we will have left? i also say we go after salmons who single handedly torched us in the playoffs.
Big Ray
May 20th, 2010
5:34 pm
If JJ doesn’t return and we get a good enough coach, we stand a chance to win enough games to not get any ping pong balls, but bad enough to get a first round matchup with the #1 seed if we DO make the playoffs.
Grandad
May 20th, 2010
5:34 pm
People / not all / get a grip.
I’m considering:
‘NOT’ being a Hawk fan.
Draft:
Alabi, P.George, Ebanks, [Gordon Hayward/Adam Morrison]really?
Trade Josh:
for a bag o’ beans?
Break up the team & start over.
Get a real owner like:
Cuban, Blank, Prokhorov.
Fire Sund…for the life of me…why?
Let Joe go & sign:
D. Wade, LeBron James, LeBron James’ mom, Bosh, Amare’…..
Why can’t:
We have a team with excitement like the Braves???(serious ?)
Folks – the glass is half full !
At the end of the day Joe’s coming back.
We will keep Childress or get some value S&T.
We will draft a rotation player.
Wdsn will not be here to waste another yr.
of a promising young player.
We will hire a coach better than the previous one.
*Impossible not to get a better one
Don’t dispair.
Grandad’s prediction:
We enter play-offs next yr. with more hope
than we did this yr.! [to win a championship]
Grandad
May 20th, 2010
5:49 pm
O’Brien:
From earlier;
about the draft, @ 24 I like the philosophy of Astro Joe,
who said:
“get a niche player”.
You mentioned the draft occurred before FA.
[paraphrase] didn’t know if we need a SG or not?
Like AJ if you get a player @ 24 that can
contribute immediately…call it a day !
Perhaps (not perfect) but Redick would be a lower end
SG / ‘FA’ that could replace Joe within our budget.
He would be better than any #24 pick.
OR
Trade up & draft Xavier Henry !
I’m always thinkin’………
some of it even makes sense – to me @ least.