Atlanta Hawks: Why J.J. may be worth more to the Hawks than you think
If J.J. walks, the Hawks won't be able to replace him with a comparable free agent. (Curtis Compton/ccompton@ajc.com)
Hawks GM Rick Sund said the team will do whatever it takes to re-sign Joe Johnson but he’s not writing the checks. One guy who is, ASG’s Michael Gearon Jr., said the Hawks would “react” once Johnson hits the free-agent market on July 1.
Gearon didn’t want to talk about J.J. this week but on the day after the Hawks’ season ended he offered some insight into his view on max contracts:
“The biggest problem most teams make is they sign a contract and it ends up being a bad contract. You look at the Miami Heat, Jermaine O’Neal makes $23 million a year. Is he a player that is worth $23 million a year? I would say probably not. If you look at our team, we’ve assembled a team where we try to stay away from bad contracts.
“That said, there isn’t a move we haven’t made. We thought it made sense to get Jamal Crawford here and increase the payroll, so we did that. With the salary cap, the only way go above that is trade players you have or you re-sign players you have where the payroll goes up. Since we bought the team the payroll has increased [by] $24 million What we haven’t done is make a mistake with a bad contract. Well, I shouldn’t say that, Speedy’s contract wasn’t very good, but we turned it into something [in the Crawford trade].”
The obvious counter to Gearon’s argument is getting players like O’Neal often requires signing (or trading for) deals that carry some risk on the back end. But clearly that’s not ASG’s philosophy and, as I’ve said before, it’s hard to blame them since there are only a few max-salary players who would excite fans to the point of offering a reasonable chance of a return on investment in this market. Gearon again:
“If somebody came to us tomorrow and said you can have LeBron for max money and it puts you in the luxury tax, I’d do it in a a heartbeat. But am I going to do that for Ilgauskas? Am I going to do it for Jermaine O’Neal? I don’t think so. . . .
“We have piled tens of millions of dollars into this product to make it good. But it’s also up to fans to show up and see your team and support your team. I think we’ve given them a product as exciting as any in the league. You want people to be there, you want them to support your team and be proud of it. I think we have a team that deserves that.”
No one knows for sure what J.J. can get on the market and/or at what point Sund’s “whatever it takes” is trumped by ASG’s fiscal restraint. But chances are if the Hawks are going to sign a major free agent this summer, it’s going to be J.J. Otherwise, due to salary-cap rules they don’t have many options for signing a comparable replacement.
You can either trust me on that, slog through the following detailed explanation (which could possibly make your head hurt and your eyeballs bleed) or skip down the paragraph that starts with “All of those moves technically would leave the Hawks with $8.1 million in cap room”. . . .
I’ve checked all of the following against info posted by cap expert Larry Coon. I also exchanged e-mails with Coon, who after years of providing friendly help for helpless hacks like me now is writing a blog at the New York Times Web site, among other places. I also corresponded with blog reader Robert Dinterman, who says he’s just a fan with a lot of CBA knowledge. I can tell you this is true, so Ps and thanks to Robert.
I’ve included the appropriate links if you are interested in how I came up with the numbers or are some kind of masochist (I don’t judge). I’m pretty confident it’s all accurate but I don’t claim to be a cap expert or any better than competent at simple arithmetic. If you think there are any errors in math or cap interpretation, please send me an email–mcunningham at ajc.com–and I will check it out and update where necessary.
As it stands, the Hawks have roughly $47.6 million committed to eight players next season when including Mo Evans’ $2.5 million. Let’s say Evans opts out and then J.J. and Josh Childress and all their other free agents signs elsewhere and/or the Hawks renounce all their free agents.
If all of that happens, then the following would come off the Hawks’ books for their total offseason salary of approximately $78.9 million, which includes committed salaries and cap holds for their free agents and the No. 24 draft pick (assuming they keep it):
Joe Johnson’s $15.8 million cap hold
As a Bird Free Agent, Johnson’s offseason salary figure is based on 150 % of previous salary, which is about $22.5 million, but the figure can’t exceed the maximum salary for a nine-year player, which hasn’t been determined yet but that Coon estimates will be about $15.8 million.
Josh Childress’ $10.9 million cap hold
Childress is a Bird Free Agent coming off the fourth year of his rookie-scale contract. According to the 2004-05 rookie scale, Childress’ fourth-year salary as the No. 6 pick was 26.8 percent more than his third-year salary of $2.86 million, or $3.6 million. (The higher salary is because Childress made about 120 percent more than the scale, which is allowable.) The $3.6 million is less than the league-defined average salary of $4.9 million in 2004-05. Therefore, Childress’ cap hold is 300 percent more than $3.6 million, or roughly $10.9 million.
Mo Evans’ $2.5 million salary
If Mo opts out, his salary is wiped out.
Mario West’s $1.06 million cap hold
As a three-year veteran who has been previously waived, West is a non-bird, restricted free agent. As such, his team salary is calculated as the greater of 120 percent of his previous salary ($572,344) or his qualifying offer. For West, the qualifying offer is the greater of 125 percent of his previous salary ($596,191) or the three-year vet minimum ($885,120) plus $175,000, which is $1.06 million.
Joe Smith’s $854,389 cap hold
Smith is a 12-year veteran with a minimum 2010-11 salary of $1.352 million, but since he’s played more than seasons any salary in excess of the two-year veteran minimum salary in 2010-11 ($854,389) is reimbursed by the league and not counted as part of team salary.
Jason Collins’ $854,389 cap hold
Collins is a nine-year veteran with a minimum 2010-11 salary of $1.229 million, but since he’s played more than three seasons any salary in excess of the two-year veteran minimum salary in 2010-11 ($854,389) is reimbursed by the league and not counted as part of team salary.
Randolph Morris $854,389 cap hold
Morris is a four-year veteran with a minimum 2010-11 salary of $992,680, but since he’s played more than three seasons any salary in excess of the two-year veteran minimum salary in 2010-11 ($854,389) is reimbursed by the league and not counted as part of the team salary.
Subtracting Evans’ option plus the free-agent holds would leave the Hawks’ salaries at about $46.1 million (committed salaries for seven players at $45.1 million plus the rookie scale amount of $964,000 for the 24th pick).
But other salary charges apply since the Hawks then would be under the salary cap (estimated by the league will be $56.1 million in 2010-11) and have only eight players when counting the players under contract plus the first-round pick. The roster charge for the four empty spots below 12 are based on the 2010-11 rookie minimum salary of $473,604, for a total of $1.89 million. That would increase the Hawks’ salary total to about $48 million ($46.1 million plus $1.9 million).
All of those moves technically would leave the Hawks with roughly $8.1 million in cap room, but they would be subject to holds for the mid-level and bi-annual exceptions. Those holds apply if adding them would put the Hawks over the cap. It’s hard to say if that will happen now because while the amount for the 2010-11 bi-annual exception is known ($2.08 million) the mid-level amount hasn’t yet been set (Coon is estimating it will be $5.73 million this season). Also, all these salary numbers are estimates while the league calculates them down to dollars and cents. No, really.
If the Hawks are subject to cap holds for the mid-level and bi-annual exceptions, they could renounce those exceptions to gain cap room. Either way, they would be looking at adding players by using either the mid-level and bi-annual exceptions or roughly $8 million in cap room plus minimum-salaried players. So even if Evans opts out, Johnson walks, Childress returns to Greece and/or the Hawks renounce those two and all of their other free agents, there’s still not much flexibility for the Hawks.
As for the Hawks using Johnson in a sign-and-trade to get more value in return, the best way for that to happen is trading him to a team that is over the salary cap. Teams with enough cap room can just sign Johnson straight up and, as everyone knows, there are lots of those teams this summer. Already the Heat are reported to have interest in Johnson, who has said he likes them, too.
If Johnson wants a maximum deal under the Bird rules and his new team agrees, he could go back to the Hawks and ask for a sign-and-trade (he can get six years instead of five and up to about $30 million more that way). But the Hawks wouldn’t have much leverage in that situation, especially if Johnson’s new team is offering him the non-bird max and the Hawks don’t want to go that high. In that case if the Hawks say no to a sign-and-trade, then J.J. could just sign with the new team for the non-bird max.
If the Hawks agreed to a sign-and-trade with Johnson’s new team, they could expect to get back something similar to what Seattle acquired in similar circumstances when Rashard Lewis bolted as a free agent for Orlando in 2007: a conditional second-rick pick and a trade exception.
All of this is a long, painful, mind-numbing way of saying Johnson’s value to the Hawks is enhanced not only because he’s their best player, but also because should he leave they won’t have the flexibility to sign a comparable player. The Hawks could try to get better through trades, but then the problem becomes their reluctance to break up their core group (and possibly weaken the roster in other areas) and the difficulty with trading bad contracts for better players. That’s not to mention ASG’s aversion to taking on large, long-term deals and paying the luxury tax (expected to be about $70 million in 2010-11).
So after three straight years in the playoffs and consecutive trips to the East semis, the Hawks would be hard-pressed to be as good or better next season if J.J. leaves. There could potentially be more flexibility the next season, with Jamal off the books and Bibby’s contract more tradeable, but who the heck knows what will happen between now and then.
Now excuse me while I go place bandages over my bleeding eyeballs.
MC
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475 comments Add your comment
A.J Price > Eric Bledsoe
May 20th, 2010
11:32 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdgIqKyskHw
Domonique
May 20th, 2010
11:35 am
If the sixers take Evan turner could dat open a door for a sign and trade with Joe Johnson and Andre igudala
Hawkeye
May 20th, 2010
11:36 am
The NBA Salary Cap is a big joke! The Larry Bird Rule and mid level exceptions are crazy! How bout a hard cap? The Hawks will be in trouble if Joe bolts for nothing in return! It will take a big trade, sign the right free agents or get lucky with a draft pick!
northcyde
May 20th, 2010
11:39 am
Dejay . . . I hear what you’re saying. But you act like that Atlanta fans are ENTITLED to something, even if they don’t rabidly go out and support the product. The reality of professional sports is that a fan’s particular team is probably NOT going to win a championship, unless all of the right ingredients come together. And for most teams, it takes a few years to even get to championship level, even after you become good.
Sports fans in Atlanta haven’t won nearly enough to have the sort of apathy that they have toward their sports teams.
Portland is a GREAT basketball town, there’s no denying that. But let me illustrate what I’m saying. Portland’s last good year, before everything started to go south for them, was back in 2002 – 03, when they won 50 games but lost in the 1st round. That year, they were 6th in attendance and drew a little over 796,000 fans. So let’s look at these 2 elements: wins . . and how it correlated with attendance.
02 – 03: 50 wins . . 796,000+ ( 6th in the NBA ) . . . 97% capacity
03 – 04: 41 wins . . 684,000+
04 – 05: 27 wins . . 680,000+
05 – 06: 21 wins . . 617,000+ ( DEAD LAST IN THE NBA ) . . . 75% capacity
So let’s stop here for a moment. Like most NBA cities, when the team is winning, the fans come out. When the team goes in the tank, the team loses support. Even in a rabid basketball city like Portland. When that team went into the tank, combined with all of the off the court issues the “Jailblazers” were getting in to, the fans stop going to games. That’s pretty much the point at which Portland decides to blow everything up. So now let’s see the progress of the Blazers as they got better.
06 – 07: 32 wins . . . 670,000+
07 – 08: 41 wins . . . 801,000+ ( they were so happy to be relevant again )
08 – 09: 54 wins . . . 841,000+
09 – 10: 50 wins . . . 840,000+ ( 3rd in NBA ) . . 102% capacity
So as you see, when that team was sorry, the Blazer fans didn’t blindly support that team. But as the team got better, their fans came out in droves to see them.
OK . . let’s look at the Hawks during that same time period. We didn’t have the good squad in 02 – 03, so our attendance numbers will be lower. But let’s see how ATL’s fans have reacted to the Hawks success over the past 8 years.
02 – 03: 35 wins . . 528,000+
03 – 04: 28 wins . . 565,000+
04 – 05: 13 wins . . 592,000+
In each of those years, the Hawks were either next to last or last in attendance. It’s funny to see attendance go up by almost 65,000 between 02 – 03 and 04 – 05. But even with that, you’re still talking about us barely drawing over 14,000 a game in that 04 – 05 season. But we were sorry. The low attendance numbers were to be expected. Now let’s look at the next 5 years:
05 – 06: 26 wins . . . 617,000+
06 – 07: 30 wins . . . 639,000+
07 – 08: 37 wins . . . 667,000+
08 – 09: 45 wins . . . 686,000+
09 – 10: 53 wins . . . 678,000+
Even though attendance was still in the bottom half of the league, we did see attendance rise for 7 straight years, which is good. But this season, we saw attendance dip? We have the best season out of all of those years, but the fans don’t come more? It’s almost amazing to see Portland draw as many people in a 32 win season, than we did in a 53 win season here.
But the people in Atlanta will continue to come up with excuse after excuse as to why they don’t attend games, even though there is a very good HOME product on the floor these days. When I talked about a “championship fan base”, that is what I was talking about. Does this fan base show the ability to come out and support a good team, as they progressively get better? In ATL, you’d have to say . . “eh, maybe, maybe not.”
When are the excuses going to stop, and the fans put it in their minds to simply go to the games to support good teams?
They have us drafting him?
May 20th, 2010
11:43 am
http://www.nbadraft.net/2010mock_draft
I’ll roll with it!
THEKINGPATIENCE
May 20th, 2010
11:45 am
I SAY SCREW THAT AND GO FOR BROKE AND LET JJ GO AND THEN SIGN LEBRON OR CB4 OR DWADE TO A MAX CONTRACT PAY THE LUXURY TAX AND JUST KEEP WINNING CHAMPION WHY YOU DO THAT AND WHEN YOU CANT DO IT ANYMORE WHO’LL CARE CAUSE WE’LL BEEN DONE WON FIVE OR SIX CHAMPIONSHIP BY THEN
KentPaulsen
May 20th, 2010
11:54 am
Dont sign LaBron because LaBron will BREAK THE BANK. LaBron is perceived as this “larger than life” player but in the playoffs the lasat two seasons you saw LaBron shrink to the size of a mouse. LaBron is more HYPE than anything else. Contrast LaBron with Kobe Bryant. There is no comparison. Kobe should have won another MVP award this year and was robbed again. Kobe scored 40 points the other night and he did that because his team needed him to. Kobe has his pulse on exactly what his team needs from him and Kobe delivers it time after time after time. Kobes goal when he first came into the leage at 17 years old was to be the GREATEST PLAYER IN NBA HISTORY. Right now, Kobe is not too far off that goal (NO DISREPSECT TO MICHAEL JORDAN). If Kobe were to get four more championship rings and finish with eight (along with all the stats that will go with that), you could certainly make a case that Kobe is the greatest of all times. Additionally, if Kobe plays five more years Kobe may finish the #1 scorer in points of all times.
TROTTINGHOME
May 20th, 2010
11:55 am
Send this article to the writers above MC…and PS them…
Do your home work before you write.
O'Brien
May 20th, 2010
11:59 am
I have a marketing idea for the ASG.
We know that Atlanta fans are motivated by big names (Wade, Kobe, LeBron etc). From a marketing standpoint, what about exploring Tracy McGrady (depending on his contract demands), and if he is willing to play off the bench.
Its just a marketing idea, so dont think I am rooting for us to sign TMac because of his value on the court. I am looking at it based on his off the court value. And if he is able to give us anything on the court, great. he could be another scorer off the bench (if he has anything left). And you can never have enough scorers.
northcyde
May 20th, 2010
11:59 am
vava74
May 20th, 2010
9:23 am
There isn’t a single person in the blog (slight exaggeration, I know) which makes a trade, signing or re-signing suggestion thinking about DEFENSE.
I thought that the series which BOS had against CLE and is having now against ORL would “teach” something to the fans, but it obviously doesn’t.
*********************
Vava . . you hit it right on the money. This team has to improve defensively if it wants to compete on that next level. Putting the offense in the hands of a “leader-type” PG who can run the show, would help us out tremendously on offense. Let’s just hope that Teague will b as good as some people think he can be.
But until we address our defense our defensive issues ( mainly at the point and on the interior ), it won’t matter how well our offense plays. We’ll still not match up with Orlando and still run into problems vs Cleveland ( if Lebron goes back to them )
In these playoffs, what you are seeing is that if you don’t match up well with a team ( or if a team matches up well against you ), you’re going to lose in these playoffs. Boston has the defensive personnel to match up with the Magic. Because of that, they look horrible on offense.
On the flip side, they have no one to stop Rondo ( or Pierce for that matter ). The very thing that was a strength against us ( ball movement to get the open man the shot ), is the very thing killing the Magic now ( the inability of multiple people to create AND MAKE their own shot when that ball movement is taken away ). This is why our ISO offense works against Boston and why our switching defense can contain Rondo. But both of those things were negatives vs Orlando.
Even with Phoenix, it’s the same thing. The Lakers have talented offensive big people. Phoenix doesn’t have big people that can play defense. So the Lakers are basically pounding the ball inside because they know the Suns can’t stop them. Then when they load up trying to stop the inside people, Kobe does his thing. And the Suns can’t do much about this. Their only hope is to be almost pefect on offense and hope they outscore the Lakers ( or hope Kobe and/or Gasol have off nights ).
george smiley
May 20th, 2010
12:04 pm
I guess the big question on Phil Jackson is whether some team other than the Lakers will offer to pay $12+M for his services.
It is a reasonable amount if you think about it. If Jackson was in Cleveland or Atlanta, one of those teams might still be playing ball and not golfing. He really does know how to get a team ready for the post-season, and he isn’t as expensive as it looks because you aren’t still paying him and a replacement like in Chicago and elsewhere.
So what do you think?
JuniorBridgeman
May 20th, 2010
12:05 pm
I am so glad the Orlando Magic are failing in their series with the Celtics. When the Magic obliterated the Hawks they were SO ARROGANT in their press conferences. Dwight Howard, the big muscular center for the Magic said, in the next round all we have to do is play our game for 48 minutes and we will beat anybody. Boy was he wrong. I knew the Magic could be defended and beaten. All you have to do to beat the Magic is a) defend the 3-pt shooters at the 3pt circle with a hand in their face and b) keep dwight howard at least 7-10 feet away from the basket. If he is in close where he can dunk the ball, drive him away from the basket and Howard is not creative enough to score from that distance. That strategy shuts down the Magic completely which is precisely what the Cs have done.
darrell starks
May 20th, 2010
12:08 pm
Bring in avery as the coach push hard for a sign and trade for rudy gay.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!
northcyde
May 20th, 2010
12:11 pm
O’Brien . . I guess it is what it is with the people in Atlanta. If that’s what they need, then I guess that’s what the ASG has to do, even if T-Mac is a walking MASH unit. Shoot, might as well go get Allen Iverson as well.
Or here’s one . . . go get Nate Robinson.
He definitely doesn’t help our defensive issues at the point, and he really can’t run the position. But he is fast, can jump out the gym, and has shown the ability to flat out take over games when he has it going. If those are the kinds of players that Atlanta will root for, then maybe they should bring in Nate during the offseason.
Shoot . . just run a 3-headed monster at the point, with Teague, Nate, and Bibby all getting around 16 minutes a game.
o.O-Mac-Town -Macon, Georgia- Westsider-O.o
May 20th, 2010
12:13 pm
Sorry folks, I’m not buying the idea some people have that the Hawks are basically a lock to take steps back if JJ leaves us. People are acting like this man is Kobe, Wade or Lebron.
JJ is a good player, though not a superstar. JJ has been a no show in the playoffs. Other teams have “role players” that show up more than him in big games. With our ISO-Joe offense under Woody, look how many 4th quarter chokes we had relying on “ISO-Joe.” As for his stats, they are good, but take into account how much he had the ball in his hands in Woodson’s offense. Lots of guys numbers would look better on paper if they had that much freedom.
If we get a coach that actually has an offensive playbook and can make adjustments, along with adding needed pieces here and there (not even necessarily “big names”..just decent pieces that can give productive contributions and fill their role)…The team could easily be just as good or better with out JJ.
hawksfan23
May 20th, 2010
12:16 pm
i say we sign garret siller again, get sergy gladyr who won the european 3 point championship and is over 45 percent, keep joe smith, let morris and collins walk, sign salmons with the mle, and if jj walks we will still be a playoff contender, but it would help if jj stayed. just think of a team with jj, salmons, and crawford as scorers that would be insane.
darrell starks
May 20th, 2010
12:19 pm
Sign sign joe 5year 70mill trade marvin, chill, for rudy gay.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
Hawks Suck
May 20th, 2010
12:20 pm
Let’s resign Joe Johnson, but wait how many points did he have in the 2nd round? That’s great idea!
Ramon
May 20th, 2010
12:20 pm
Am I the only one who’s jealous that the Nets owner Prokhorov bought the Nets and not the Hawks? Imagine how it would be to have the 37th richest man in the world as your team’s owner.
darrell starks
May 20th, 2010
12:22 pm
Avery will groom teague into a good point guard.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!
terrell
May 20th, 2010
12:23 pm
Stay away from bad contracts my azz. What about Marvin, Zaza, and Bibby? Awful contracts.
darrell starks
May 20th, 2010
12:26 pm
The big Q can josh, horford get the job done down low i think so specialy if we just add some pieces of the bench.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!
Grandad
May 20th, 2010
12:26 pm
nire:
I don’t pretend to understand the CBA.
I’ve been to L.C.’s site & read til I had
twice as many questions as before I started.
My “eyes bled” reading MC’s article.
*[borrowing his metaphor]
I was only commenting on a piece I read
about Knicks & how they were [yes, gonna try]
a maneuver to sign two + keep Lee.
Bless ‘em if they can.
By the way, anytime a CBA question comes
up on this board or wherever, I always refer
‘whomever’ to you.
[MannyT has pinch hit nicely on occasion]
Did & or do you still post on Hwkssquwk?
I used to be a reader only & I seem to
remember your analysis over there.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 20th, 2010
12:29 pm
O’Brien, I think you are selling the ATL fans short. Yes, people here are fickle and superstar-starved, but I hink they have more basketball knowledge than they get credit for, and most of them realize that T-Mac hasn’t been a superstar for a few years now.
But I do think if the Hawks traded rosters with Miami and started winning 45 games a year and getting bounced in the first round, attendance would go way up because of Wade.
What about Sherron Collins in the 2nd Round?
May 20th, 2010
12:31 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e2eIeQQH1Y&playnext_from=TL&videos=IpMqE_ZgTnM&feature=rec-LGOUT-exp_stronger_r2-2r-14-HM
Ty Lawson any Better?
Ramon: Parcherov(sp?) Scares me
May 20th, 2010
12:33 pm
Like he’d execute his employees or something. Creepy. Reminds me of theat dude from Rocky IV. Drago or whatever his name was.
darrell starks
May 20th, 2010
12:33 pm
ATLANTA HAWKS 2010 ROSTER COACH AVERY
STARTER TEAGUE, JOE, RUDY, JOSH, HORFORD
BENCH BIBBY, JAMAL, AL HARRINGTON, ZAZA, SOLOMON ALABI
RESERVE MORRIS, MOE
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
WhEre the hell did that
May 20th, 2010
12:34 pm
SECOND ROUND PICK WE GOT FROM HOUSTON GO!!!??? WE NEED THAT!!
niremetal
May 20th, 2010
12:36 pm
Why do we “need” a second round pick? Second round picks are worth about as much as the gum I stepped on during my trip to work. Most second rounders never even sniff an NBA rotation.
Whre the hell did that
May 20th, 2010
12:45 pm
LETS NOT FORGET ABOUT THAT OTHER 5′11 PG WE PASSED ON IN 2005 WHO ALSO WENT TO CRANE HS WILL BYNUM SMH. WE SHOULD GIVE COLLINS A SHOT.
ALSO, 6′7 DARRINGTON HOBSON OUT OF NEW MEXICO IS GOING TO BE A REAL SLEEPER PICK. HE WENT TO HS IN DECATUR, GA.
DEXTER PITTMAN IS DEAD WEIGHT
Ramon
May 20th, 2010
12:45 pm
Yea but the dude from Rocky was a good guy, it was his managers who were ruthless. He probably got killed when he got back to USSR.
Gamer
May 20th, 2010
12:53 pm
It would be great if Smoking Gun Joe Johnson re-sign with Hawks for a workable deal and a win-win deal for both sides.
Avery Johnson at the helm, an improve Jeff Teague at point and a good solid center to go along side Horford and J. Smoove sends championship aromas.
Grandad
May 20th, 2010
12:56 pm
vava74
“There isn’t a single person in the blog (slight exaggeration)
which makes a trade, signing or re-signing suggestion
thinking about DEFENSE.”
“(slight exaggeration)” – [Thanks G-dad]:
* Kyle Lowry
* Hasheem Thabeet
* JaVale McGee
* Andris Biedrins
* (*[Joakim Noah]*) *
* Reggie Evans
** Choice for Coach – (*[Tom Thibodeau]*)
*** All time favorite player – *Rodman
*** current favorite non-Hawk – *Battier
**** the only value I rank higher is Team/Teammate!
vava – not complainin’ about your post…”enhancing” !
“With an offensive scheme which did not command him to dribble
double and triple teams and Howard’s help defense, he would
have been a lot more productive.
It seems that no one really heard and understood Hubie Brown’s interview after all.”
I sure hope I did !
New coach – Joe may go to a new level.
Mr. Sund seems to think so.
vava:
I also think Mr. Sund, both, gets & understands “the secret”.
Big Ray
May 20th, 2010
1:01 pm
MC ,
I think we can attribute a lot of that to the following:
1. JJ’s talent
2. A certain mid round pick developing into all-star level.
3. Finally hitting big with a top 3 pick in Horford.
4. Mike Bibby…at least for a year and a half…
Grandad
May 20th, 2010
1:04 pm
nire:
1st, 2nd round or FA. ‘Brian Zoubek’.
Have a good laugh @ my expense.
I’m sold on this young fella.
Must = right coach/team/system.
Big Ray
May 20th, 2010
1:04 pm
Northcyde ,
Please don’t bring up that crap about Iverson again. I still have nightmares about blogs full of comments saying we should go get him. Yuck. As Denver and Memphis found out, Iverson minus Larry Brown equals major headache.
Don’t want Nate, either.
O'Brien
May 20th, 2010
1:12 pm
vava, northcyde,
Defense is very important. But if you dont have the personnel, it will still be an uphill battle. However, because defense is so important is one of the reasons I think Thibodeau should get an interview.
The teams he has worked for (Knicks and Boston (I dont know what Houston’s defense was like when he was there)) are usually good defensive teams. And Doc Rivers and the Boston players speak highly of him.
As for the ASG and their money, I think the max another team can offer JJ is 5 years, $93 mil (with raises). If you’re the Hawks, do you wait and let the market play out, or do you make an offer to JJ at 12:01 July 1?
Ramon
May 20th, 2010
1:13 pm
I hope to see JJ back in the Hawks lineup next season! And I still feel with this exact roster, and the addition of Haywood and Brewer the Hawks would be able to contend next season. I think if the Hawks can sign Haywood to the mid level, and Brewer to 3-4 mil a season, they will only be a shooter away (2nd round pick from last season?) from having a well put together roster.
Dejay
May 20th, 2010
1:17 pm
So North, you’re saying the fans should come out in droves because they’re a good HOME team now? You and I both know that it doesn’t work that way (well, at least I HOPE so). Portland responded the way they did because they don’t have to think about the NFL draft, aren’t concerned over how the baseball team is looking in Spring Training, and aren’t writing full-page stories over what the 4th string tailback prefers on his roast beef sandwich as opposed to here. If the Blazers are doing well, they’re coming out because they don’t have other sporting options and they don’t have a huge contingent of transients who sit home and wait on their hometown teams or a superstar to arrive in town.
And yes, we DO feel entitled to winning here. How long have we held on to our loyalty to this bunch while watching every (insert expletive here) team in the league except the Clips (I’m not counting the expansion ones in Toronto, NO, and Charlotte) advance to a conference finals in the last 35 years? At this point, I could care less if they were 41-0 at home over the last two seasons; what they do (or didn’t do) in May and June overrides that.
Everyone else has had their day in the sun; even Wizard fans can harken back to the good ‘ol days of what it felt like to win a title. Our finest hour was Bird guaranteeing a Game 7 victory over the Hawks in the second round.
When is our payoff going to come????
Ramon
May 20th, 2010
1:26 pm
Call me a hometown fan, but I think next season the Falcons, UGA, and the Hawks are each going to do something special in their respective season!
Ramon
May 20th, 2010
1:26 pm
By the way, in 3-4 seasons Mark Fox will be a GREAT hire for the Hawks if they choose to go that direction.
Diary of an "also ran team"< 500
May 20th, 2010
1:36 pm
darrell starks
May 20th, 2010
12:33 pm
ATLANTA HAWKS 2010 ROSTER COACH AVERY
STARTER TEAGUE, JOE, RUDY, JOSH, HORFORD
BENCH BIBBY, JAMAL, AL HARRINGTON, ZAZA, SOLOMON ALABI
RESERVE MORRIS, MOE
quick quiz:
how many hawks made the all NBA team?
answer:1, JJ 3rd string
how many hawks made the all Defensive team?
answer: 1 Josh Smith # 2 in the nba
What did the starting atlanta center rank in either of the above categories?
answer: he didnt, but he did rank # 18 among NBA centers for protecting the rim, (block shots)
And that is hitting it big for a number three pick?
Time to rebuild
May 20th, 2010
1:41 pm
lets start from the basis. Let first protect the rim. Let start this 5 year rebuilding project off with the most crucial element. Lets get a center.
Ken Strickland
May 20th, 2010
1:41 pm
For what it’s worth, I hope we resign JJ. All he needs is :
(1) A real PG playing next to him, especially one that can penetrate and play good DEF.
(2) A more structured half court OFF that offers more options for attacking the DEF.
(3) A HC that’s less rigid, but stern enough to hold all players accountable, more amenable to change and making adjustments, and more willing to listen and accept input.
(4) A HC that understands the overall talents of the players and the team, and recognizes the advantage of stressing that the team and its players consistently play uptempo and push the ball at every opportunity.
It would be a tremendous benefit to the team if we had an OFF system that forced the DEF to defend against the OFF, rather than certain players, which is what happens with an ISO dependent OFF. If the right adjustments are made by the new HC, the Hawks could become much much better and much more effective and competitive without having to make drastic personnel changes.
northcyde
May 20th, 2010
1:45 pm
LOL @ Ray . . . I agree. I’m just saying though. That’s what some of these fans want to see to get excited about the Hawks. Iverson could’ve worked in Memphis, had he humbled himself to come off the bench. That team, and the city, could’ve really rallied around that dude. But he didn’t have the patience nor the humility to even give it a shot. Even an aging Iverson would’ve electrified Memphis a little.
Ironically, it was actually another cast-off in Jamal Tinsley, who stabilized that team just enough after the bad start, that they started playing at a fairly high level by Christmas.
I agree though. Give me guys who will play soild basketball to help the team win, than sideshow acts that are only good for the occasional crossover or a spectacular dunk. If some of these fans would root more for an aging Allen Iverson, than they would for JJ or Horford, then that speaks volumes about what some of these fans get hyped up for.
Then again, that’s the reason why they give Crawford a pass for his play during the playoffs. He’ll still give them the “oohs and ahhs” and plays fast. So that satisfies some of the fans, even if he’s just as efficient as the rest of the guys.
Time to rebuild
May 20th, 2010
1:48 pm
JJ has to want to resign hear and since its apparent that Sund(of a bytch) hasnt got a clue, weve lost ground( most experts are now predicting 4-6 years back to competitiveness, why would he want to sign here. There is nothing attractive about playing here during the 4-6 rebuild. By that time JJ’s best days will be behind him.
He wont sign here. Hes looking for a team that is trying to win. When Woodson was not extended during midseason JJ saw the hand writing and decided to look for a better opportunity to win a championship. The same with the Z man. The pro’s know Sund(of a bytch) is not going to lead this team any where but mediocrity.
Time to rebuild.
Ken Strickland
May 20th, 2010
1:55 pm
OBRIEN-Houston’s DEF under Thibodeau finished in the top five 4 consecutive yrs. Overall, his DEF’s have finished in the top ten 15 times. As a DEF minded coach he’s the real deal, with an extensive resume, not someone that pretends to be DEF minded, like Woodson. NO DEF MINDED HC WOULD CONSIDER STARTING BIBBY, OR PLAYING HIM SIGNIFICANT MINS. Actually, what other HC would have started and given Bibby significant mins period?
northcyde
May 20th, 2010
2:04 pm
Dejay . . I’m saying that when you have a good home product, they should get support. Every other team in the league is able to draw decent home attendance when they perform well at home.
A team winning 30+ games at home usually aren’t having many issues with attendance. You keep citing the other franchises in the city, but like I said, there are 4 million people in Metro Atlanta, and probably another 1 million within a 2 hour drive of that city.
The Hawks could do a lot more to help themselves, via advertising and marketing, and getting on a much stronger radio station, They could promote their star players much more than what they do.
But Dejay . . if what this team does in the regular season doesn’t matter to fans anymore, then there’s not much the Hawks can do. A superstar just doesn’t walk into a franchises life. That superstar has to want to come to that team, or they have to have the money to go after that star, for the most part.
People talk about Wade and Lebron, like they would even like to come here. What evidence is there that Wade, Lebron, or even a Chris Bosh would want to play in Atlanta . . even if we had the cap room? What free agents over the years have even thought about coming to Atlanta over the past 25 years. I can only think of two.
Dikembe Mutumbo and Joe Johnson.
Everybody else, we had to trade for ( including Dominique, whom we obtained from Utah )
northcyde
May 20th, 2010
2:06 pm
And actually, we had to trade for JJ too. It was only after it became apparent to him that he could make a major payday, plus play close to home, that he seriously considered us.
Sautee
May 20th, 2010
2:07 pm
LOL @ Truth-serum:
“Hey mr con&ham why dont you do a story about how woodson wanted Chris Paul and Brandon Roy but Sund-of-A-Bytch insisted on Marvin William and Sheldon.”
In the first place, Woodson did NOT want CP3. Most of the blog KNOWS this.
In the second place, Sund was hired after Billy Knight quit. It was Billy who drafted both Marvin and Sheldon.
But like he does about Horford, Truth-serum will revise history if it makes his target look worse. I mean why let the silly old facts get in the way of a good trashing?
And, by the way T-s, has having the league’s top shot blocker helped Orlando so far against the Celtics?